#queerbaiting... or comphet baiting?

[m3r1m4r5u333]

Bi!Buck denialists trying argue that the idea of Bi!Buck is "delusional" before Buck, bothered and bewildered aired:

Bi!Buck truthers listening to them talk like "Umm... Have you ever actually seen Buck?"

...

Bi!Buck denialists, eating crow, after Buck, bothered and bewildered aired:

[animebw]

No you don't understand, this changes EVERYTHING.

I have struggled so long, and so hard, to sort out my feelings around Eupho as queer subtext vs Eupho as queerbaiting vs Eupho as just unambiguously queer. I have tried so hard (and failed so hard, if I'm being honest) not to get my hopes up for anything unambiguous. But this is just straight-up, no-other-interpretation-possible outright explicit gay romance. Only made explicit in one of the side novels, granted, but wholly consistent with canon and completely accurate to Kaori and Asuka's characters as we've seen them before and since. All this time Hibike Euphonium hasn't just been skirting the line of queerness close enough to leave skidmarks; Hibike Euphonium is queer. It is openly, unambiguously comfortable portraying gay characters, gay relationships, gay stories period.

Which means Natsuki and Yuuko's subtext is exactly what I suspected it to be.

Which means that Nozomi and Mizore's love confession in Liz and the Blue Bird is, in fact, romantic.

Which means that after all this time, all this strife, all this despair...

Kumirei is still alive.

Kumirei is still alive.

Kumirei is still alive.

I NEED YOU TO SAY THAT WITH ME AND REALIZE HOW FUCKING MONUMENTAL THIS IS.

KUMIREI.

IS.

STILL.

ALIVE.

This is no longer cope. This is no longer wishful thinking. This is no longer praying against all reason that the impossible will happen. If Hibike is canonically queer, then Kumiko and Reina's story, through all their ups and downs, is allowed to be part of that. Whatever conclusion they reach, however this final season shakes out, their queerness was not an accident. It did not happen by chance or for bait. No matter what, these two girls exists in a world where girls loving girls is not impossible, which means all the expressions of love they've shared before are real. The confession of love was real. The festival date was real. Kumiko's messy struggle with comphet was real. Every touch, every tender word, every moment that has built the tapestry of one of the greatest romances in all of fiction- possibly the greatest- is exactly as genuine as we've always dreamed. And nothing, nothing, nothing can take that away.

...fuck me, this is what hope feels like.

It feels good.

[nymph1e]

I've officially gotten to the point of liveblogging my watch of 911 abc. I'm like 7 episodes in to season 2. Here are my current thoughts:

I miss abby (not as much as buck lol) but I'm glad they found a way to get rid of a female leading character without killing them off.

Buck and eddie are really really gay. I was not expecting it to be this gay. I went into this expecting the shipping to be a reach but oh boy no. We got fucking early 2010s levels of - well I'd call it queerbaiting but this show is too fucking queer to be baiting ANYTHING. I just. How is this unintentional???

Not loving the whole "boy needs his mother" storyline that's going on this episode. It's giving nuclear family norms. It's giving heteronormativity. And considering how opposed to this shit the show is I expect it not to last long.

Literally so pissed no one told me how progressive and queer this show is. Like all I saw on social media was firefighter bits and bobs, and buddie - which as far as I could tell was typical queerbaiting. What do you MEAN this show is about found family? What do you MEAN this show has a married lesbian main character? What do you MEAN this show is about moving past your fuck ups, being open to new experiences and diverse groups of people. What do you MEAN I could have been watching this for years and I was sitting here thinking it was another hurr durr comphet police procedural stand in??? What do you mean?!

[jimmywilsonschutzpah]

I’d argue that House/Wilson isn’t exactly queerbaiting in the sense that I don’t think the writers ever intended to capture or please a queer crowd by baiting a possible H/W storyline. It was just funny and “titilating” in the 2000s to have “haha he’s gay” jokes. And while the media was going crazy calling it a “bromance”, I don’t think the show itself was trying to attract and keep a queer audience.

But House MD had an interesting magical combination where 1) there were queer writers in the writers room 2) the show explores themes of loneliness, codependency and toxic masculinity and 3) Hugh Laurie is a huge LGBTQIA+ ally. So underneath the “haha he’s gay jokes” there’s a very sincere storyline about House and Wilson’s loneliness and friendship. There are many scenes where they truly show their affection for each other (in healthy and unhealthy ways) as well as how they do depend on their friendship. So if you peel away the jokes made about how funny it would be if they were gay you actually have a story that looks more like queer-coding than queer-baiting (to me at least). And then if you overlay the homophobic jokes back on top of that, it ends up looking like there’s a lot of repression and comphet and denial to a modern queer audience.

I wonder what this story will look like to us the next 10 or 20 years.

House md really is the gayest of gay queerbait. Like I’m sorry but besides SPN and maybe Sherlock no one was doing it like them. And the thing is I don’t even think it was intentional??? House md was unbelievably popular but in a normal Game of Thrones, Grey’s Anatomy way. It’s the kinda show that everyone’s mom watched when it first came out on cable (mine included). Appealing to a young queer internet audience in 2007 wasn’t a marketing strategy they would ever attempt. It doesn’t make sense.

And yet. 

The sheer amount of gay jokes and allegories is just overwhelming by the time you get to the last season. Amber is Wilson’s House proxy, House and Wilson move in together TWICE, the fake marriage proposal, the exploration of toxic masculinity, Wilson’s 3 failed marriages, fucking everything about the last few eps. Like what other tv show spent almost a decade creating the most co-dependent, self-sabotaging relationship between its two main male characters that is essentially the backbone of the entire show. They literally ride off into the sunset together. Idk what else you want from me.

[none-gender-left-man]

God give me the patience to not engage with byler doubt that's cross tagged

Give me the serenity to hold my hope high and not bicker w ppl who are jaded and can't keep their neg to themselves

Give me the wisdom to scroll past and let them be proven wrong later without wasting my energy

[stormblessed95]

Queer Baiting Vs. Censorship

So I woke up this morning to a discussion over Korrasami and how some people called their relationship queer baiting. So I want to talk about it, and what queer baiting is in general. I'll link it back around to BTS here too at the end, so stick around for that if you want. Korra is just the main example I am using here. But general warning, the show Legend of Korra ended in 2014. I'm not worried about not spoiling anyone, so here is the one warning for spoilers if you care about that. Lol

A lot of people seem to think that either queer people are "doing too much" trying to say that Korra and Asami were girlfriends by the end of that show. That they were just best friends and they both had dated men during the show, so clearly they weren't gay. Or they said "yeah, the implications were there but there was never any follow through. The show ended with them just going into the spirit world together (gif above). It's queer baiting." And it's not. On both of those accounts. Korra and Asami are canonical girlfriends. Confirmed by the writers of the show AND it was taken even further in the comics over this storyline. They even come out multiple times to Korra's family and their friends

And that ending of them going into the spirit world holding hands at the end of the show? That was legit just their first vacation as a couple together and confirming their time as girlfriends and taking time off from the stress of saving the world. Lol this is them coming home from that vacation in the comics

And it's all literally canon artwork and stories here. Direct from the same people who made the show. And again, they confirmed it themselves too. With this statement: "Our intention with the last scene was to make it as clear as possible that yes, Korra and Asami have romantic feelings for each other. The moment where they enter the spirit portal symbolizes their evolution from being friends to being a couple." Which came from the creators blog post, you can read here:

And the other creater posted about it as well, saying "Korrasami is canon. You can celebrate it, embrace it, accept it, get over it, or whatever you feel the need to do, but there is no denying it. That is the official story." And you can read his full statement here too:

Even their mutual ex boyfriend (lol) stated that he thought they were perfect for each other and that he was probably very qualified to say that 🤭🤣

So let's be perfectly clear. It's only queer baiting if they are not queer. It's only queer baiting if they aren't actually together. Which it seems very clear from context clues that they are, even without the comics laying it out explicitly. And there was no hints that they weren't queer or couldn't be together at the end anyway even if you didn't pick up on the hints. Therefore, Korrasami could never qualify as queerbaiting. That's just simply comphet Norms coming out to play then. Queerbaiting is a marketing technique in fiction where same sex relationships are hinted at, but never actually depicted with real representation. But you can't queerbait if you are queer. And you can't queerbait a relationship if the relationship is real. So if you don't know the person's sexual orientation or relationship status, it's not queerbaiting.

Korrasami suffered from censorship, not queerbaiting. And that's not their (the creators) fault. This was on a children's show in 2014. The fact they managed to push as much of the heavy content as they did in regards to war, death, mental illness, genocide, abuse, trauma, imperialism, etc was impressive on its own. And in 2014, getting canon queer rep like this wasn't often done. Like at all. And so their relationship was censored, but the signs were all very clearly there and they took the chance to expand even further in the comics off screen. No longer limited by that censorship. They were trying to naviage representing a queer relationship to their audience while navigating the censors they had to in order to keep the show on the air at that time. A lot of people didn't think it would happen, but it did and they went through with it. And it meant a lot to a lot of people 🙋🏻‍♀️

Bringing this back around to BTS and if they are queer and the possibility (probability) of jikook being in a relationship together. I've seen people say/ask if they are queer baiting. I've seen articles saying that they are queer baiting as a group. I've seen people question about how if they never come out, has this been queer baiting. And no. Because again, you can't queer bait if you are queer. And no one knows what their sexualities are. Not to mention the culture differences in regards to just platonic touching that occurs between the the western culture and LOTS of others. On top of how it's important to remember that we simply don't know and we will probably never know. Its not a TV show, its their real lives, yet their lives are so broadcasted and picked apart worldwide. They themselves are living within the censors that keep them safe in the world that they live in. Inside a homophobic conservative country. They tell us what they can and work through those censors. And no one has the right to demand or even really want them to step outside those censors to give more explicit detail. They tell us what they can and you take from that what you will. But living within those censors is not queerbaiting nor is it lying to people. Its an important distinction to remember and to never dismiss.

Important discussion, important to remember in regards to jikook and bts as well at times, triggered by LOK discussion on a different platform. Lol can't totally blame me. I AM obsessive and in love with multiple fandoms, not just BTS and jikook. 😂 and for my readers out there, idk if yall do this too. But unless the character states they are straight explicitly (especially my MCs), all of them are queer to me. Idc. If they don't state their sexuality, any sexuality is possible. Lol and no, an MC dating someone of the opposite sex does not count as them stating their sexuality. You can like more than one gender 🥰🥰

Anyways, I'm done. Lol thanks for letting me rant for a bit. 💜💜 Hope everyone has a wonderful day

[damnfandomproblems]

I really resent how the fandom bastardized important concepts like queer-baiting, queer-coded and comphet. Queerbaiting doesn't mean ''My non-canon OTP didn't end up together''. Queer-coding doesn't mean ''I headcanon this character as gay/lesbian, therefore I'm going to niptick everything to justify my headcanon''. Comphet doesn't mean ''I headcanon this character as gay/lesbian but he/she is canonically in a straight relationship''

[bisluthq]

I don't personally think Supergirl queerbaits. But if you out Katie McGrath into anything then your going have people thinking any female she is in a scene with, must be gay and they will have a relationship. Since Katie McGrath has chemistry with everyone. Except James. They have queer characters and seem quite inclusive. But to be honest the first season was the best then it's all been downhill.

Ya it just doesn’t interest me. I am a bad queer because I find Katie overrated tbh. Like sure she’s a pretty girl but people go like... ape for her and I just don’t get it.

Also tbf a show can have queer characters and bait (eg my personal gold trashcan of a show Riverdale). Like they’ve teased fluidity for Betty, Archie and Veronica but it never goes anywhere ever. They have Kevin and his boyfriend and Cheryl and Toni but also it’s a very dynamic look at sexuality. Like Cheryl was into Archie back in S1 and they haven’t explored that even from a comphet angle it’s like “no she’s a lesbian now” which is a pity because RAG is gay and I’m sure they have queer folk in the writers’ room. Like it’s Riverdale so obviously I have managed expectations but it feels like a show all about hot people fucking could have some bis in it.

And they do bait that but again it never goes anywhere.

I am in my Veronica anti era but I mean instead of doing this tired Barchie thing they pulled on us end of last season why wouldn’t they have gone with Betty/Veronica in that mess? Would’ve been so much more iconic and had the same plot ramifications.

So my long winded point is a show can be inclusive and still bait even without Katie involved and ya IMO she’s overrated.

[m3r1m4r5u333]

I wonder if episode 3x08 was hinting that if one does not know how to look out for hints of queerness they might end up falling flat on their face x)

"Hansel and Gretel hit the ice for their bread crump shtick and boom, bloodbath on the ice."

"What Is Breadcrumbing?

Breadcrumbing is the act of sending out flirtatious, but non-committal social signals (i.e. "breadcrumbs") in order to lure a romantic partner in without expending much effort. In other words, it's leading someone on."

So Hansel and Gretel hit the ice to do their gimmick - a performance which is meant to lead someone on... And boom, an unexpected bloodbath.

The way that Hen accidentally hands over a laryngoscope (the instrument used for examining the voice box)... Like they're saying "pay attention to what's being said". Eddie finds a pinky finger (gayyy) on the ice, Buck finds a middle finger (a message to the unexpecting audience, maybe?), Hansel blurts out that he broke up with Gretel because she wasn't leaving...

Then Bobby talks with the witch - bear in mind that "snowy owl" is also slang and basically means a counterfeit, a deception.

And 'everyone went toe pick' means unexpected face planting - Figure skaters need toe picks but beginners stumble and fall because of them. "Toe pick!" is also a movie reference, it's from Cutting Edge in which Kate, a professional figure skater keeps taunting Doug, a hockey player, who keeps falling because he isn't used to toe picks.

So here:

Kinda sounds like "one of the con artists went all in and everyone fell for it."

But Bobby, as it turns out, is no amateur, he used to figure skate and the toe picking instantly makes him think of sequins...

Bobby knows what to look for, the thing that stops you in your tracks.

Where does this keen eye for sequins come from, the team wonders...

Also might I point out the music choice... It's Paganini, the composer who was known for his incredible virtuosity with both violin AND guitar. He was such an incredible virtuoso with the violin what rumour said he'd sold his soul to the devil. The queer subtext of delivering the line 'who says you can't do both?' to the notes of a known deviant such as Paganini? Strong.

(Notice where Chimney is pointing...?)

Also Hen's expressions while she's looking at Buck and Eddie...

🤔 Who says you can't do both.

(Oh, also the way the witch is green like in Wizard of Oz, and Hansel "has no heart" much like Tinman... Are you perhaps saying that we're not in Kansas anymore?)

And hey, the name of the episode was Malfunction.

"A wardrobe malfunction is a clothing failure that accidentally or intentionally exposes a person's intimate parts."

So they've exposed something intimate, there's a sequin on the ice... Too bad for the ones who can't see it. Might end up faceplanting real hard.