#proto-indoeuropeans

[castilestateofmind]

“Nos celtis genitos et ex iberis” / ”We are the descendants of Celts and Iberians”.

- Marcus Valerius Martialis, “Martial”.

[gwydpolls]

Time Travel Question 22: Ancient History X and Earlier

These Questions are the result of suggestions from the previous iteration.

This category may include suggestions made too late to fall into the correct grouping.

Please add new suggestions below if you have them for future consideration. All cultures and time periods welcome.

[carrionknight]

Tocharian Mythological names and Terms

As the title suggests, here are some names and terms I found:

Ylaiñäkte, Ylaiñeṣṣe = Indra/Thor, Storm God

Ylaiñäktäññe = female Indra? Wife of Indra?

Śakyavarddhane = the tribal deity of the Śākyas (Scythians), Sun God Surya (Helios/Sol)

Kauṃ-Ñäkte = Sun god, Possibly Sol/Helios?

               Kauṃ = Day, Sky

               Ñäkte = God or generic deity

Indre = Indra

Upoṣathe = Uposatha (Buddhist holiday)

Kamartīke = ruler

Kāmñäkte = God of love

Jñānasthite = Tusita realm god

Ñäkte-Yok = God like

Ñäkteñña = Goddess

Tapatriś = thirty-three gods

Tilādevi = A class of gods (unclear)

nirmṇarati = A class of gods (unclear)

Pañäkte = Buddha

Pañcābhijñe = possessing of the five spiritual powers

Pūrvottare = Proper name of a God, otherwise unclear (Parvati?)

Pravare = Messenger of the Gods, Close friend of Indra

Prām-ñäkte - Brahma God

Prete = Malicious spirit

Brahasvati = proper name of a god, Brihaspati

Bra(h)m-ñäkte = Brahma

Mār (Mār-Ñäkte) God of death, the tempter and the adversary

Meñe = moon

Meñ-Ñäkte/ Ñäkteñña = Moon God/Goddess

Yāmor-ñäkte = Karma God

Riññäkte = City God

Viśvakarme = Proper name of a god (Vishvakarma)

Viṣṇu = Class of gods, Vishnu?

Vr̥kṣavāsike = proper name of a god, Vajrapani? Zeus equivalent?

Vaimānuke = proper name of a god, something regarding ‘Vimana’? possible also Vamana

Wekārsa = Native Tocharian deity of uncertain function or origin, looks like Wodanaz or Wotan to me from Germanic myth. Appears in the play The Supriyanāṭaka which is set in idia, possibly meaning the God replaces one of Indic myth.

Śuddhavās = a class of Gods, Śuddhāvāsa of Buddhism

Śuubhakr̥tsäṃ = a class of gods

Śrīñäkte= Goddess of fortune, Fortuna

[theexodvs]

Hm...only five major branches of the Indo-European languages are known to have somehow maintained a separation between the three series of PIE stops, and only three of those, Hellenic, Indo-Iranian, and Italic, had plain voiced stops in the written record corresponding to those in the standard reconstruction of PIE.

These were the same three branches that, when compared together, caused academics to hypothesize Indo-European as a family and launched Indo-European studies as a discipline. Could it be that examination of these three is producing a bias in the reconstruction in PIE?

It’s not even possible to reliably reconstruct /b/ for any of these branches to the periods between splitting from PIE and their own internal breakups. Classical Greek /b/ is from PIE *gw, which never bilabialized in Mycenaean, *m in certain contexts in words without known Mycenaean cognates, and substrate words also without firmly established Mycenaean cognates. Sanskrit /b/ sometimes agrees with Avestan and Old Persian /b/, but that is due to Grassmann’s law, which, due to deaspiration in Proto-Iranian, might or might not have been active in Proto-Indo-Iranian. Latin /b/ comes from Proto-Italic *p in certain circumstances where it did not change in other Italic languages; /dw/ during its written history (see the Duenos Inscription); and medial *β, which instead devoiced in Oscan-Umbrian.

Do the anti-glottalists really think a language could have had /d g/ without /b/ for thousands of years, and that multiple descendants could have maintained the same typologically unusual arrangement until the earliest attestations of the Italic languages and of archaic Greek around the ninth century BC?

[thewellofastarael]

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Cerberus

if you ever think mythology is boring or serious business or whatever shit

just remember that cerberus, the hell-hound and guard dog of the underworld, comes from the root indo-european word ḱerberos, which evolved into the greek word kerberos, which got changed to cerberus when it went from greek to latin

ḱerberos means “spotted”

that’s right

hades, lord of the dead, literally fucking named his pet dog spot

[elijah-terry]

was looking at irish phonology to confirm to my partner that they don't have interdentals and wow broad vs slender consonants sure are. something. and they're NOT allophonic?? going insane, hard to think about velarized or palatalized consonants

i need to include broad & slender consonants in a conlang though that's so neat

[gender-jargon]

[Image ID: a redesigned Resgender flag by Gent (Gender-Jargon). The background of the flag is black, with eight central stripes, with the outer two being slightly larger than the others. The center stripes are grey, red, fuchsia, blue, green, yellow, orange and grey. In the middle of the flag is the Cengender symbol, which is made from the number "100" by centering and overlaying two ones facing away from each other and two concentric zeros positioned in the middle of the stalk of the number one. The Cengender symbol is off-white. At the very center is a brown circle. ./. End ID]

Resgender: a fluid, ever-changing gender experience that is wholly unidentifiable and nondescript, but is capable of manifesting in an extremely vast multitude of experiences of gender and/or lack of gender which may or may not be contextually based or circumstantial.

[PT: Resgender: a fluid, ever-changing gender experience that is wholly unidentifiable and nondescript, but capable of manifesting in a extremely vast multitude of experiences of gender and/or lack of gender which may or may not be contextually based or circumstantial. ./. End PT]

A synonym of Cengender.

Etymology

[PT: Etymology ./. End PT]

From Latin, "Res" meaning "Thing" + "-gender", a neologistic English suffix indicating genderedness. The Latin word "Res" draws from both Proto-Italic and Porto-Indoeuropean language families, where it originally meant "Wealth", "Goods" or even to refer to a head of cattle. The coiner does not specify further regarding the etymology of the term or how it relates to the definition. Coined by user Baaphomett in June 2014 (link) [PT: Coined by user Baaphomett in June 2014 (link) ./. End PT].

Alternative, Cengender was coined by user Small-Enby in August 2014 on MOGAI-Archive (link) [PT: Cengender was coined by user Small-Enby in August 2014 on MOGAI-Archive (link) ./. End PT]. The etymology is likely from Galacian, “Cen”, meaning “100″ + “-gender”, a neologistic English suffix indicating genderedness. The definition of Cengender is as follows:

a gender that can be summed up as an unidentifiable thing but manifests as hundreds of different genders or non at all at any given time at the same time and/or separately. Fluid and ever changing.

[PT: a gender that can be summed up as an unidentifiable thing but manifests as hundreds of different genders or non at all at any given time at the same time and/or separately. Fluid and ever changing. ./. End PT]

Resgender and Cengender appear to have been considered synonyms from at least July 2016, as seen in this post from user Pride-Color-Schemes (link) [PT: as seen in this post from user Pride-Color-Schemes (link) ./. End PT] It could be argued that both terms are different from each other, based upon each of their definitions. More information is included on this below in the Elaboration section.

Elaboration

[PT: Elaboration ./. End PT]

Resgender and Cengender were both coined independently, but close in date. According to the definition given by the coiner, Resgender:

is unidentifiable (UIN) and nondescript (GEIN) in it's nature.

embodies a vast range of gender experiences (VASIN).

...these vast experiences of gender have the capacity to be identified as, operate as and/or be attributed to being a "girl" and/or "boy".

is contextually based.

By comparison, Cengender:

is unidentifiable (UIN).

embodies a vast range of gender experiences (VASIN).

may manifest as having no gender (AGIN).

may be AGIN and VASIN separately and/or simultaneously.

is fluid (IDIN) and always changing.

Both Cengender and Resgender are UIN and VASIN. However, Resgender is also GEIN, explicitly mentions xorgenders in it's definition and can be contextually based. Cengender is AGIN and IDIN, and may be considered paradoxical (DOXIN).

Since both terms are generally considered synonyms and are often used interchangeably, I have attempted to integrate the definitions into one, but it should be noted that each are indeed different from one another based upon the wording of their respective definitions.

This is a repost from my old blog, Gender-Resource (terminated) (link) [PT: This is a repost from my old blog, Gender-Resource (terminated) (link) ./. End PT]. This post has been updated with a redesigned flag, updated definition, an elaboration and additional links.

Pride Flag

[PT: Pride Flag ./. End PT]

My Resgender flag is based up on the pride flag created by user Pride-Color-Schemes in 2016. To avoid creating a flag that is difficult to reproduce, I simplified the Cengender symbol to be of one color.

This is my redesign of my original pride flag that I posted on Gender-Resource. The background of the flag is black, with eight central stripes, with the outer two being slightly larger than the others. The center stripes are grey, red, fuchsia, blue, green, yellow, orange and grey. In the middle of the flag is the Cengender symbol, which is made from the number "100" by centering and overlaying two ones facing away from each other and two concentric zeros positioned in the middle of the stalk of the number one. The Cengender symbol is off-white. At the very center is a brown circle. The design carries the following meanings:

The black background represents vastness.

The grey stripes represent contextual/circumstantial basis and fluidity.

The red, fuchsia, blue, green, yellow and orange stripes represent the diversity of gender (or lack thereof).

The brown circle represents being unidentifiable and nondescript.

[PT: The black background represents vastness. The grey stripes represent contextual/circumstantial basis and fluidity. The red, fuchsia, blue, green, yellow and orange stripes represent the diversity of gender (or lack thereof). The brown circle represents being unidentifiable and nondescript. ./. End PT]

[elegantshapeshifter]

The Devil, Yahweh, Baal, Bael and the confusion: why Natib Qadish (ie Canaanite Paganism) is important to avoid confusion in European Traditional Witchcraft

Hello everybody!

Many of you asked me why did I begin to talk about Natib Qadish, ie Canaanite Paganism, on this blog, whose main topic is European Traditional Witchcraft.

First of all, what is Traditional Witchcraft? Is the contemporary attempt to reconstruct European Pagan Survivals in Middle Ages and Early Modern Period.

While these survivals were usually heavy Christianized, many of them were demonized or "fairicized".

So we have three kinds of Pagan Survivals: Christianization, such as Gods who became Saints, Fairicizations, such as Gods who became Fairies and Nature Spirits or "Neutral Spirits", neither Good nor Evil, and finally Demonization, ie Gods who became Demons.

While Christianization lead to the eventual complete assimilization of those Gods with saints, at such extent that nowdays no devotee of such saints see them as "masks for the ancient Gods", there was still a definitive distinction and independence of the Demonized and Fairicized Characters from mainstream Christianity.

However, this opposition between the Gods-Demons and the Christian pantheon, lead us to think: is this opposition not only cultural but also theologically relevant?

Is this opposition between Yahweh and the Demonized Gods theologically relevant or is it just a cultural particularity?

Because, while we can and should respect all the religions, Christianity included, we cannot say just "let's respect Christianity and let's stop to think".

Because, while Christianity historically (not necessarily nowdays, because a lot of Christians see the Gods as other ways to their God, but I say from theologically informed view from the Gospels and mainstream Christianity throughout most of the centuries) saw the Gods as Demons, how should we see Yahweh?

Who is Yahweh?

We know that many of those Demons who appear in Grimoires and also in legends and tales all around the Middle Ages and Early Modern Period have strange names, such as "Bael", "Astaroth"... where are those name from?

They were ancient Canaanite Gods. Yeah, Canaanite Gods who still were worked with as demons in Christian Middle Ages and Early Modern Period.

So, let's recap:

Pagan Gods survive

They survive but as Demons

Demons are usually named as Canaanite Gods

So... why are those Gods/Demons Canaanite? And what is the relationship of all this with Yahweh?

We know from historical sources and the Bible that Ancient Israelites worshipped many Gods, such as Baal and the "Queen of Heaven", Asherah or Astarte.

The difference between the Bible and historical sources is that the Bible says that it was a Canaanite influence from foreigners, while the historical sources says that Israelites were originally polytheistic and indistinguishable from other Canaanites.

And well, those names, those same names, Baal, Asherah and Astarte, are the names that will appear in the names of demons such as Bael and Astaroth.

So, does this mean that we have to choose between Baal/Bael and Astaroth/Astarte vs Yahweh?

Because, if we stop here, from only the acceptance of the biblical and medieval sources, it seems like there is a battle in the sky: Yahweh vs Baal and Asherah or Bael and Astaroth.

You either worship the Demonized Gods or work with demons in Grimoires, and you side with the Canaanites, or you worship God and you side with Yahweh.

However, this is just a superficial way of viewing it.

Another way, it's to see who is Yahweh.

Is Yahweh really in opposition to Paganism?

Where does Yahweh comes from?

And here Natib Qadish help us to understand that actually Yahweh is a variation of Baal Hadad, another Storm God that came from the Shasu or Kenites.

Storm Gods, such as Baal and Yahweh, were then merged with Sky Gods such as El.

Storm is a content while Sky is a container.

Similarly it happened in Proto Indoeuropean religion with Perkunos (Storm God) and Dyeus (Sky God). In fact in many Indoeuropean Paganisms, the storm God absorbed the sky God, such as with Perun, or viceversa the sky God absorbed the storm God, such as with Zeus.

So we don't have a battle in the sky.

The Gods didn't lose against another different God.

We simply have:

Sky Gods such as El and Dyeus

Storm Gods such as Baal, Yahweh and Perkunos

It means that, when somebody in the middle ages worked with the demon Bael, they didn't work with an Entity against Yahweh.

They worked with another name for Yahweh.

However, this give us another worldview.

We can either think that we should "pick a side", either with Yahweh or with the Demons/Gods.

Or we can see that there are multiple cultural expressions of the Sky and Storm Gods, one of which is Yahweh.

So, Canaanite Paganism knowledge is essentially because if we lack these informations, we fall in the idea that there is a Deity that hates our Deities and that there is a battle in the sky, with either one God that is stronger than others, or with one God that can and likes to destroy temples for the other Gods because is an enemy to them and to their devotees.

I don't know you, but I don't like to think that there is a Deity that hates me :D

I think that, despite being Pagans, we should know who Yahweh is, because as contemporary practitioners we usually ask ourselves why did the Gods allowed temples to be destroyed.

And Canaanite Paganism allow us to understand that it's due to a cultural and human interpretation, and not because of a battle in the sky.

Because Yahweh is Baal is Bael, and the Divine spirit of the Storm cannot willingly see itself as the enemy.

Humans, only humans are enemies to each others.

Yahweh is Bael. God and Demon are one.

[castilestateofmind]

"Do not think of the Proto-Indo-Europeans as a people who died out a long time ago. They live, and their culture lives, in us; transformed by time and the influences of other cultures maybe, but still recognisable at the core of our values, language, and culture. By understanding them, we understand ourselves."

-Ceisiwr Serith.

[gepm251-blog]

Behold!

A chapter!

Edit: I realize that Roier speaks Celtiberian here and I should probably warn you on that, since I know the Proto-Indoeuropean has already been hard on you

[haxyr3]

You probably already know how to say "an eye" in Russian - It's глаз, of course.

What you probably don't know yet is that there was another word for an eye in old Russian and Church Slavonic - око (yes, the close relative of the Latin oculus - they both derived from proto-Indoeuropean *okw, an eye, or a hole).

Глаз is the right word for the corresponding anatomical organ, and is very common in the everyday speech.

Око as an archaic word is reserved for poetry, solemn speeches, religious texts and such.

The Eye of Sauron in Russian is Око Саурона, and never глаз, because глаз sounds too trivial for it.

More interesting facts about the usual words for facial features - here.

[piro-piroooooo]

hi! welcome! I've been on Tumblr since 2016, but I've never made a serious effort to post or interact with anyone. Because of this I understand a lot of the culture of the site but my etiquette and interaction skills are shit. Be patient with me please. So, twitter is dying and I want to start using tumblr more properly :^) My name is JM Rivera, also known as acropiromaquia or piro in most of my social media, my pronouns are he/him. I'm queer but I'm not telling you exactly what flavor. I'm not a minor, but I'm not telling you my exact age. Mexican, I can interact both in Spanish and English. Well I draw digitally, I'm gonna be posting some art soon :^). I want to make friends! Here are some things I like, if you like any of these, let's be friends about it :^D:

Adventure Time

Sailor Moon

Magical girls in general

Witch Hat Atelier

Animation

Obscure animated films

amazarashi (favorite band! :^D)

I enjoy researching topics such as history, anthropology, and history of religion (somethimes gnosticism, sometimes proto indoeuropeans, big fan of the kurgan hypothesis), but I'm in no way a specialist in any of these topics, I just like reading about them. Feel free to correct me if I ever say something stupid.

No side blogs. Art, thoughts, reblogs, everything goes in this blog. This is my art tag. This is my textpost tag, for my thoughts.

Thanks for reading have a nice day :^)

[thylionheart]

Proto-IndoEuropean myths are obsessed with the concept of male gods being able to give birth. Like, you jealous fucks. Zeus sewing the unborn Dionysus into his “thigh” (not his thigh) to birth him later is but one example. So… is Chronos canniablizing his children another echo of this theme? Because it just occurred to me how often young kids will point to a pregnant woman’s belly and ask if they ate their baby bc of course that’s what it must look like to them.

Time and rebirth going hand-in-hand makes total sense. To put a child back into the belly is a way to turn back time. He could destroy his children, or he could make it as if they were never born

[EDIT: I got too caught up in this and forgot I was making this post to say it reinforces my theory that Hades 2 Chronos is Osiris, a god of rebirth]

[daily-rayless]

10 Happy Things

Thank you for tagging me @thunderboltfire

I love making lists (let’s call this an eleventh thing I sneaked in) and thinking about this really picked up my mood.

1. Graveyards: I don’t mean this in any dark or edgy way. I feel like graveyards are extremely peaceful, reflective places. I love wandering through and looking at the headstones -- seeing the different sculpture designs, seeing the names, and inscriptions, making little guesses at these people’s histories. I like the newer graveyards where people make so many unusual design choices (an entire recipe on the back of a headstone! a stone that looks like an electronic device!) and I also like older graveyards where you can feel the passage of time. When my mom was little, her family sometimes would eat their lunches in graveyards on road trips, so I was never raised with the idea that it’s disrespectful to talk and laugh in a graveyard. They’re pleasant, welcoming places.

2. Brush-tip markers: Along with being smooth and velvety and blending so nicely, they let me pretend I’m a Master Painter Painting Masterfully.

3. Used Book Stores: This is a little similar to graveyards. Broadly speaking, there are two types of used book stores, and they’re both good. 1: Bright colorful bookstores with more recent used books, lots of paperbacks from the last twenty years, books you’ve been interested in but didn’t want to buy at full price and here they are. 2: Brown, quiet used book stores with much older books, lots of hardbacks who’ve lost -- or never had -- dust jackets, lots of foil-stamped covers and thick pages with huge margins and frontispieces protected by translucent paper, books you’ve never heard of, without Amazon reviews or back-cover blurbs, that you decide to take a chance on.

4. Finishing a journal and lining it up on the shelf with my other journals: Along with the sense of accomplishment and thinking I’ve made a bit of a record, my journals are mismatched, lots of them gifts from people, and they remind me of those people.

5. Really Old Stuff: This may be because I come from the States, so there isn’t a lot of really old stuff around me, and even the oldest stuff usually isn’t very old. Really old trees, old houses, old knickknacks -- I love these tangible proofs of the past, thinking about where they’ve been and the people who’ve interacted with them. This exact knickknack was sitting somewhere the day I was born. People were clumping across these wooden floors when they heard the Titanic went down. It’s a neat feeling.

6. Meeting Animals: I don’t currently have any pets, so meeting other people’s cats and dogs and horses and goats feels like a treat.

7. Character Building: Landing on just the right name for an oc, or drawing an oc and finally seeing their personality in my pencil lines. I can “see” the character in my head, but putting that on paper can be really hard. Some characters, like Arsen, still haven’t really “appeared” on the page for me yet.

8. Wandering around in fandom spaces and finding art of a favorite character I haven’t seen before. Extra points if something about the art is so good and so spot-on I want to incorporate it into my own headcanon.

9. Names and Words: I haven’t studied it very deeply, but I’ve been interested in name/word derivations for a long time. When I find out that two words, deep down, come from the same root, it’s magical. My dad once speculated that foal and pullet might have a common source, and I didn’t believe him, but he was right. The other day I learned that Lucy and Luna come from the same Proto-Indoeuropean root, and it means both “to shine” and “to see”. There’s something fascinating about the history of the very words we use, hidden meanings and connections we don’t even know.

10. Hot cocoa: I used to drink hot cocoa regularly, but not so much anymore. It’s the best hot drink, in my opinion, and I don’t take it for granted these days.

Please consider yourself tagged, especially if we’re mutuals. This picked up my mood, and I’d love to spread that around.