#posting this outside the community as well

[unfamiliaris]

what if you got stuck with a boyfriend that you don't exactly hate but don't exactly love either, but you stay with him because you've finally formed a nice friend group with your brother and his wife and then you realize ohh shit. I have a massive crush on my sister in law. so you do everything in your power to suppress it because she's your baby brothers wife and you'd do anything to keep him happy but it does start to eat away at your own relationship slowly over the years but now you're married so you're locked down for life and you try to be happy about it because you're well off and it's great. but then your sister in law that you still won't fully admit you're in love with dies horrifically and you can't grieve her like a lover because that would be selfish and wrong and also you have your baby brother to comfort now so you do. and your marriage keeps slowly spilling sand through a hole in the floor and once it runs out you know you'll hate him but you can't deal with all of this at the same time so you stick it out for your brother who is inconsolable. and in the grief your baby brother decides to go through an experimental brain surgery that will essentially allow him to cut off half of his consciousness to escape it all. and you don't think it's a good idea at all but you're not exactly going to tell him how to cope when his wife just died so there's nothing you can do. and then two years later you're pregnant and by now pretty much all the sand has fallen through the floor of your marriage but there's not much you can do anymore because you're pregnant. so you go to a birthing retreat when the time comes and you meet this stunning woman who reminds you of everything you gave up to satisfy your brother and this man you don't even really love anymore and well maybe you kind of have a crush on her. but she doesn't recognize you outside of the cabin and it doesn't even matter because you have a kid now. you're locked down. and your pretentious husband is hosting a book reading for his latest publication and you're still tired from all the post birth hormones but you decide to play nice. and then somehow your brothers other half talks to you for the first time and he's as innocent as the day he was born but then you find out that not only has your lactation consultant been your brothers evil boss this whole time but that your brothers dead wife isn't actually dead. so you try to help your brother communicate with his other half to find out if that's really true and you're trying not to hold out hope but god you miss her so bad and you need to try. and then in the span of like one hour you watch your brother have a stroke and meet his backalley brain surgeon who confirms that yes, gemma really is alive and she has been all this time. and you're trying to process that while worrying that your brother won't wake up and you hate this stupid brain surgeon lady for nearly killing your brother but she's also kind of cute and oh my god you're still married to ricken fucking hale.

[horsedylan]

Sue K- Background, Misconceptions and The Defense of.

Strap in folks, this will be a very long one. (i spent awhile on it lol, im tired)

Back in 2016 the consensus within the community towards Sue was positive. She was respected, and she gave people a gleam into what in sam hell was going on with her son, with her, etc. Then something happened. One, the great purge where a bunch of OG accounts got deleted and the shitposters (people like me :D) took over (literal defamation by shitpost), and a little while later a horrible video from the youtuber timmy2cents got published and went viral. It appeared well researched and produced but it was anything but. A good amount of hate for Sue came from this video, and I do believe played 100% a part of the narrative souring towards her.

I dislike timmy2cents with a fruity passion (he’s worth far less than that) . The absolute permanent damage he has done to the discussion surrounding a kind, and gentle grieving mother is deplorable.

He has somehow almost outdone Dave Cullen as far as mischaracterization goes, and subsequent damage.. And has had the same childish response to boot.

Before you read the rest of this: if you were one of the millions of poor unfortunate souls that consumed this timmy2cents video and take issue with Sue’s TedTalk. There are TWO must watch videos I encourage you to consume. You have been fed LIES. (That and it’s actually quite interesting to look at how tricky well produced propaganda can be to spot.)

This entire thing has been sparked by so much outsider discourse where people parrot information directly from that timmy2cents video resulting in such insightful comments that insinuate she takes no accountability for what happened, and that she should “rot in hell” that she’s an “evil bitch”, that she used her son’s death for profit, that she excuses what he did (she doesn’t), that she’s a narcissist (be wary of anyone thats insistent on the narcissist label btw) etc. Repeating the same arguments from the timmy2cents video. He made the argument that this incredibly, permanently traumatized VICTIM of Columbine was a narcissist, and has now convinced millions of people of the same conclusion based on flimsy evidence. Also im not even going to address Todd Grande’s video on her regardless of his opinions whether they match mine (doubtful) or if he stays in his character. He’s not a good resource for psychology and he’s a known misogynist. If you watch him I encourage you to unsubscribe. He is way out of depth.

So anyway I wanted to make a post regarding Miss Sue and common misconceptions regarding her, or defences for problems people typically have with her.

Also feel free to copy and paste or otherwise steal and save any sort of info/argument post i have and repost it as your own (or link it to someone to shut them up.) I honestly don’t even care (especially if I get nuked) Fuck, any of my shit really. Take it, idc.

A Brief Background of Sue Klebold.

This information for Sue's background comes from Jeff Kass' book. I am not the biggest fan of the guy, his information is very good but in my books he is far too aggressive, rude (why'd you do Robyn dirty Jeff), and accusatory for my taste, so we shall semi respectfully/disrespectfully take this information and leave.

(Dylan's grandpa and grandma)

Leo Yassenoff, her grandfather (though not related by blood) was an activist for jewish rights/causes, and was an athlete. There is a Jewish Community Centre in Ohio named after him. Her father Milton Rice Yassenoff and his adopted brother Abner were adopted from The Jewish Infants Home in Columbus. Milton was born in Toledo, Ohio in 1919 and was of Russian descent. Leo passes away in 1971 of renal failure (two months after Tom and Sue marry), at the age of 88, he chooses to donate most of his 13-14 million dollar fortune to charity. Abner kills himself in the 1940's though a death certificate hasn't been located according to Kass.

Milton was an army man and served in World War 2. Once he came back he met his wife and Sue's mother Charlotte Haugh who grew up in small-town Ohio. This description of Sue's mother Charlotte is from Sue's eventual stepbrother Charles Huelsman the Third and is as follows; "Soft, diplomatic, a terribly nice person. Social, charitable, loving, concerned, empathic, real giving person, really tried to raise her kids well.”

Charolette would convert to Judaism, they belonged to the reform Temple Israel but are described as hardly attending. In total of biological children, Charolette and Milton would have three (in respective order); Diane Elizabeth, Susan Frances, and Philip Leo. Sue was 18 years old at the time of her father's passing of uremia. This sudden passing of her father at such a young age would pave for severe anxiety to come. Sue's mom would die of cardiac arrest in 1987 at 65.

Sue herself was born on March 25, 1949 and attended the private Columbus School for Girls from grades 1 through 12. Sue was involved in a number of extracurriculars throughout her time here. She was assistant art editor of the school paper, Silhouette, and art editor the next year. She was also art editor of TOPKNOT, the yearbook. She was involved in Scroll, the literary magazine that included art, stories, and poetry. She was in the art club, I’Pittori, along with the Latin club. She took photos for the school newspaper as well. An old classmate of Sue's mentions she and her sister Diane were quiet. Another described her as a private person.

She graduates from here the same year her father died in 1967. She then enrolled in Knox College but it didn't last, she left in 1969 to go back home to her mother. She sought counselling with pop psychologist (derogatory) Hugh Missildine, to deal with the intense anxiety her father's death had caused her.

Susan Yassenoff, shows up in his 1974 book co-authored with Lawrence Galton, Your Inner Conflict - How to Solve Them. Sue apparently appears under the pseudonym “Sandra,” This wasn't enough to stop the bloodhound Jeff Kass. Despite being under a pseudonym for a reason. He figures out who "Sandra" really is and makes a phone call. “I came across your profile in the Hugh Missildine book.” he says when Sue answers the phone. "What?” she said. “Yeah,” I reply, “in the, it was a few, quite a few years ago, the profile you had as Sandra.” “I think you are way out of base here, I’m going to hang up now,” Susan says.

Her lawyer, criminal defense attorney Gary Lozow, quickly called an intermediary. Lozow called it a matter that occurred when Susan Klebold was nineteen, however nothing ever comes of this as Sue seemingly leaves it alone after the fact.

Here is the copy paste of Sue's profile from the book:

Sandra is a twenty-year-old woman who came to see me because of a phobia. “I have a death phobia,” she told me. “It underlines everything I do. I think about death all the time.” She is a music student, about to graduate from college, has been living for the past year with her fiancé and is very much in love with him, as he is with her. He too is in music. When I asked her to talk about herself, she told me: “I’m afraid of failure. I won’t even attempt something unless I’m assured of success. I think too much. I don’t have a temper. “War things and medical programs bother me. I was terrified of bugs as a child. Airplanes used to bother me, too, and storms. My mother used to cuddle me and comfort me when I was fearful. When I was afraid, my sister would call me stupid. I scold myself for being afraid. I often feel that I’m a burden to people. I sometimes get depressed. “I think the fear of death will always be there. I wish I could turn off this part of my mind. I wish there were traumas to explain all this, but I’ve never had any traumas. When I get a headache, I’m always sure it is fatal. Then I worry that I will die, which makes the headache worse. Everything makes me think of death. I have to divert myself in the evening constantly—by eating, watching television, practicing my music or masturbating. I feel constantly that I’m coming a minute closer to death. What a waste of time to think of that all the time. But thinking this is a way of life with me.”

Questioned about her family, Sandra told me that her father had been a sensitive, sweet person who enjoyed doing things for her and whom she adored. He had died suddenly just before she had graduated from high school. Her mother?

“A saint—a real saint,” Sandra said. “She is kind, patient, never critical. When I was at home, my mother always enjoyed doing things for me and giving me things.” Here, then, is a young woman who came from a loving home, who is in love and is loved in return, who is bright, is intelligent, is attractive, has a deep interest in music and yet is an emotional cripple. Why should she suffer so much from, and devote so much of her attention to, an almost overpowering fear of death?

I'll spare you his pop psychology explanation for why she feels this way as anyone with half a brain can figure out why she is so terrified of death given the traumatic event she experienced a few years prior. I'll leave the important bits in though.

Sandra decided to do what her fiancé had long urged: get married. She became so busy with the wedding plans that, she told me in some surprise, she was thinking less and less about her fears. She still tends to slip back occasionally into old, indulgent, self-critical ways and to become a little fearful, but she can quickly abort the relapses.

Sue and Tom marry in 1971 on July 1st by a Rabbi. She graduates in 1972 with a masters in art education and a minor in psychology. They move to Milwaukee and she gets a job in the Milwaukee Psychiatric Hospital as an art therapy intern for adults. She then became a psychiatric art therapist at St. Michael Hospital. In 1975, she enrolls in Milwaukee’s Cardinal Stritch College for a master’s degree in reading. She works while in grad school, often in elementary schools. Her jobs included special education teacher’s aide and reading specialist. For about a year, she worked on a government program to help disadvantaged youths at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. (Kass, pg. 40-49)

Misconceptions about/Defense of Sue Klebold (Warning, An Incredibly Compassionate Defense Ahead.)

This section is going to act as a sort of heavily opinionated FAQ. I don't know if it's the best way to do things but I think if anything it makes it more simple?

All of the following screenshots are from a mother's reckoning.

"She profited off D's death" Nope, wrong. She didn't, every single cent from her book was donated to suicide prevention charities. She didn't make money off of the Ted Talk either. And fuck it even if she did I wouldn't care. Her bonehead son made a fucking mess for her, she might as well get something from it other than trauma and heartbreak. But she didn't. So. (https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/how-much-has-the-book-by-the-mother-of-a-columbine-killer-raised-for-charity)

"She bought him the trench coat" Okay Diane Sawyer, relax with your puritan ways. it was a coat not a glock. Next you'll criticize her for letting him play video games.

"D asked her for a gun for Christmas." She thought he was joking. According to Devon Adams, he had a dark sense of humour, and according to Sue he had a habit of asking her for ludicrous things when Christmas came around. She thought it was just another one of those things. She asked him why and he said target practice. It is not unreasonable. That family was known for being anti gun, their neighbours had them in the house and Sue refused to have them (despite the fact that it was deemed culturally acceptable to do so), so I'd probably interpret it as a ludicrous request from my son to get a rise out of me. Is it weird? Sure if you want to reach fine.

Also…Boys like guns? Like go into your local toy store, look at what you find. Those guns with the red parts that crack? Water guns? Nerf guns? Plenty of boys seriously ask for guns for Christmas too and get air soft instead even now in the current year, it was probably even more normalized in the 90's where they were fucking making pipe bombs on the regular. Seriously, I swear half of that school was cooking up pipe bombs its actually insane.

I'm just gonna point this out but plenty of boys under 18 (specifically 12-17) in Canada ask their parents to let them get their FAL because its not exactly the most shocking thing for them to be firearm trained.

"Why didn't Sue make D do therapy" Because what she thought she knew about D at the time was that he was a self sufficient guy who was striving to be independent as he approached adulthood, she trusted him, and D took advantage. The...mediator? That was in the room with them asked him how he felt about therapy, and he blatantly fucking lied and said "I'll prove to you I'm fine." Sue respected his input. A lot of you may make the complaint of "Oh well she should have made him do it" and while I do understand the sentiment I'm going to put it out there, being forced into therapy often makes it worse. We see that a lot in this community too.

Also E's family got him a therapist and guess what? It didn't do a damn thing to stop what happened. (I personally think the reaction to the van incident was a bit overblown in of itself. Teenage boys do dumb stuff constantly it doesn't mean they need therapy. Like, back in the day I broke into a church and completely fucking trashed the place with friends. I was so embarrassed and remain so even now, and yet I didn't need therapy nor did I go on to hurt people after being caught.)

A bit of a side note with E's therapy, You can have the best therapist in the world, if you aren't interested in the goal of getting better or in Dylan's case you are so prideful to reject all help (while simultaneously complaining about no one helping you i'll add) therapy won't do a damn thing. Neither will medication. Both therapy and Luvox are safe and beneficial (there are some detractors which is fine but this ain't about them) for individuals with a vested interest in self improvement, but Eric was disinterested in having a future being alive and was more preoccupied with his infamy. He liked the aesthetic of violence and the illusion of power being "crazy" gave him (like when he lied about being schizophrenic in his AOL bio) so he abused his medication to further that end instead of taking it how it was advised with the end goal of getting better. If anything I think Eric was honestly more likely to respond to a good and proper therapist before he became more interested in infamy and death than life, more so than Dylan, not because he was less prideful (he most certainly wasn't) but because he was far more external with his emotions than Dylan (Until Dylan blew his top that is). That's pretty helpful in a therapeutic environment.

So to say it wouldn't have helped if she did get D into therapy. I obviously can only give my opinion but if Eric didn't respond, I doubt someone so sensitive to embarrassment and internal like Dylan would fair any better. But again, this is just my own opinion. I think what D needed was another Zack Heckler. Not a therapist, but a friend who was emotionally intelligent. He found his emotional outlet in Eric once Zack became preoccupied with Devon, and both of them stoked each others rage and marinated in it together as some sort of bonding and coping ritual. I think Zack was the one keeping it in check.

Zack heckler had issues similar to Dylan. According to Sarah Slater he and Dylan would cry about these things on the phone together. Devon came into the picture and I think changed Zack for the better, I believe this convinced Dylan that his antidote for his depression was a soulmate. In a way he isn't wrong. Perhaps I'm an optimist but I do think having physical contact from a girl that loved him (not necessarily anything sexual) would have helped him immensely (eric too, no matter how much emphasis he put on just sex). Sue mentioned he was a sensitive, physically affectionate child after all. I don't think this fact ever changed.

"She blames E for the entire thing and makes D into the innocent victim" This one is a lot more complex but the short of it is ehhh..Maybe? No? Yes? Maybe? Sometimes? No. Yes..? The long of it is;

She was always going to be somewhat biased. This book is about her son after all. She knew her son. Carried him, loved him, etc. Her understanding of her son's culpability has been a journey through shit lake with no boat to speak of. A journey that she had to endure while she was heavily traumatized bear in mind. That is what A Mother's Reckoning is all about. She has come a long way in her understanding in 1999 to 2016 when the book was released.

She does not play pretend with Dylan’s involvement but rather has a more biased empathetic/sympathetic view of her own flesh and blood and his potential motives, nor does she excuse him for what he has done (no matter what your average redditor thinks of her and her tedtalk) but rather wishes to understand HOW he got to the place he did. I think it is closer to say she flipflops, she is lost, she doesn’t have an inkling as to what Eric’s motives were, the extent of any sort of pain he carried, his family life, and that she heavily mischaracterizes who he was as person and his motives, due to meddling "professionals" while accepting her son as a willing participant.

When it first happened she was in a state of traumatized denial. She was clinging to every bit of hope that her son wasn't some bloodthirsty killer. She describes the time she heard of these like…military mind control tapes that EH's parents had in their house, and in the throes of grief entertained that perhaps D was brainwashed by these tapes by EH.

On top of that, Judy Brown showed her E's website AFTER the shooting. AFTER, not before, AFTER. ( a lot of people shit on her saying she knew about it and did nothing but again, not true). This was also before she saw the BT's and also before D's journal got released to her in 2006 (I think it was 2006?) Then she saw the basement tapes and could no longer deny Dylan's culpability/cruelty in the act.

But what did she have to go off of at the time? The website, the time that Eric verbally abused Dylan for being bad at soccer, and Dylan just standing there and taking it.

Sue knew Eric + his parents sure, and had him around a few times, but did not know him very well. His parents did not come forward to humanize him to the public so she was just about in the dark as everyone else.

Then something else happened to add to the character assasination of Eric. In 2009 a book was published by "author" Dave Cullen called Columbine. He touted this book as the ultimate authority on Columbine, himself as an expert on the event that spent years researching it. So many places schools and universities alike use his book as gospel for studying the event. It characterized Eric as a womanizing psychopath who was intrinsically evil (paraphrasing). It hyper-fixates and waters Dylan down to a lost puppy wrapped up in Eric's scheme and charisma. Cullen was not the only person to characterize him as a psychopath either, so so many "professionals" and "experts" from psychologists to FBI agents, wanted their moment in the spotlight and came forward to say the same thing. When Sue went looking for answers and consultation for her book, she went to the experts and professionals, because that is simply what you do. This is some of what these "professionals" advised Sue about Eric and Dylan, not Sue, but the professionals;

(The above quote is from Andrew fucking Solomon, I do not assign him as much malice in his focus but he certainly had such an influence on Sue so much so that he spent time in their house.)

The biggest issue with Sue Klebold ultimately isn't Sue Klebold. Dave Cullen and the others mentioned before took advantage of and capitalized on a incredibly traumatized and grieving mother who wanted answers as to why her little boy who she dearly loved did what he did, Dave Cullen put himself in the front of the dialogue to further his name, authority and narrative. We don't know what he told her, but its almost a for sure thing that he advised her on all the "research" he did on Eric's person as it almost perfectly matches up to what is presented. There was no one else to accurately advise her on this matter. She could have turned to Kass for a basic idea (sort of), but again, but he was also limited due to the lack of parental interviews (apart from the one he got from Eric's dad where he followed him into a bathroom.), and he hadn't exactly been non aggressive with Sue. No, he burned that bridge. She wanted nothing to do with him and I do not blame her.

(fuck you Dave)

She did not come up with what she said earlier on her own to throw Eric under the bus.. If you have that many professionals telling you time and time again that he was a psychopath, you are going to take absorb it. If she ignored what the professionals told her at the time, she would once again be deemed a narcissist;

"Oh, you think you know better than handfuls of psychologists and experts? Wow Sue you're so narcissistic thinking you're smarter than everyone else." Yeah. Like Anne Marie Hocchalter's father states, she was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and the people who never went through what they did like to criticize her and pretend they are superior when they aren't. (https://zhawkeitsbeensaid.blogspot.com/2016/02/sue-klebold-what-were-you-thinking.html)

I even feel bad for the Harrises here as well because these same glory seeking professionals that convinced Sue Eric was the ringleading psychopath (sort of?ish?), also convinced them that the son they loved (and yes I'm sure despite Wayne's problems he still loved Eric) that their son was some psychopath who didn't share in that love. I think that is honestly fucking evil. Like as far as Dave Cullen goes, he didn't just write a book with fake information and a false narrative and advertised it as truth to the public, he also provided fake advice and information to a grieving mother and misrepresented it as truth. The absolute audacity man.

I think people forget that the families of school shooters have been severely traumatized, while they demand answers with a shocking amount of entitlement, resentment and hostility. And unlike the families of the shooters direct victims, they do not have the same supports they can rely on. and they are constantly being attacked by residents of the community, the media, etc. It takes years for them to heal to, on top of coming to an understanding of the why. People can get mad about Wayne not getting E from the lawyer after his cremation (and I do understand why they'd be pissed) but he was angry. *His boy killed people*, lied to him and his wife. But trauma guides our responses to things, it may not make sense for us who are privileged enough to not be in their position but its good practice to understand this simple fact.

(^These psychologists should follow the things they say more closely. The one thing I can agree with them on.)

If anything, I'd say if you take into account some of her interviews as well as her book it seems she, in her own mind, goes back and forth from neutral to biased. Its interesting but you can see a glimpse of her uncertainty regarding Eric here where she makes note of BOTH of their suicidality, though to what extent Eric was depressed and the coping mechanisms he had she doesn’t know to the fullest extent because again, she cannot humanize or understand Eric. (Also in some long since lost interviews I can no longer find she mentions how she cannot presume to know what exactly was wrong with him. I wish I could find them but its been awhile.)

She cannot champion Eric. She is not his mother nor his father. I’m sorry but if you’re the type to hate Sue for this (or any of the people involved here like Devon) you need to have a reality check. Ah yes. Endless compassion for the two boys that needlessly stole the lives of their classmates but absolutely fucking none for the innocents traumatized permanently for their deeds. 90% of the time its people partial to their romanticized version of Eric doing it too, and its just annoying lol (not people who like Eric, there is a difference.)

"She didn't separate E and D" She did separate them initially, but Kathy H begged her not to do this. And why? Because she didn't want to isolate Eric. That's one of the worst things you can do for someone struggling is take away some form of social support.

Also, how do you separate two kids who go to the same school. Do you yank the one out in the middle of a school year and get them acquainted to a brand new school? Do you understand that that is one of the worst fucking things for child/teen development. That's part of the reason E was so fucked up in the first place.

"She didn't search his room" Yes she did, she stopped really doing it the further he got into senior year and stated that D was what, less than a month from graduating from high school and going to college, you have to let go of the reigns at some point (paraphrasing).

"She kicked Byron out"

No, watch Miorby's video. She didn't.

"She pushed him up against the fridge" So? Oh no a mother parents her son. It is completely normal for a parent to be hurt that her almost adult son forgot mother's day, on top of the van incident and being blatantly disrespectful she wanted to make a point that he was being a brute. She didn't body slam him lol. She put her hand on his stomach and held him there by the shoulder and gave him a lecture because he wasn't pulling his weight.

Despite me defending her here, she regrets not asking him what was up and wishes she knew what was up. But genuinely ask yourself, Dylan, who oh so loved lying to people, would he tell her the truth? She asked him multiple times before if he was okay and he LIED to her every fucking time.

"She downplayed Dylan's role in the van incident with her answers in that one form when describing what Dylan did to get arrested" No she didn't. I'm not gonna even explain this one to you, that claim is pure body/handwriting expert pseudoscience reaching. Watch Miorby's video's linked above if you care about this genuinely I'm not interested in "debating" you.

"How did she not know, the signs were there" Because she didn't. What warning signs do you speak of? D took painstaking effort to go out of his way to hide things from her and lie. There were no warning signs at the time because in order for something to be a warning sign, it has to be an acknowledged recognized sign to begin with, this wasn't such a thing in the 90's, I think its not a stretch to say a lot of the dialogue regarding mental health was coasting off the remains of the satanic panic. A lot of you are using the information of today to address an event that happened 26 years ago. Mental health care was not mainstream, it was not something parents addressed on the regular, if anything EH parents were closer to the norm than DK's. People cannot know what they don't. People will not know things that there is very little information on, if any at all.

Mental health and mental health care was barely existent, especially for men. Nope. No forget about it. Know the "my dad's gonna send me of to military school" gag? Or the old "Stop crying or i'll give you something to cry about" That was their therapy. I would really love to know how the conversation between E's parents and him went, regarding a therapist for E, I doubt Wayne handled it well.

This is ultimately why a society that makes this information incredibly accessible and integral to parenting is NECESSARY. Not fucking shoving it into the back of a closet and pretending it doesn't exist or making it some moral issue. And this is exactly what Sue is trying to do with the work she has done. People cannot know what they don't know, what has been shoved into a closet by a puritan Christian place like America/Littleton. That's the whole point of awareness campaigns. If you're still not convinced, go read what Anne Marie's father has to say about "warning signs".

You are placing an expectation of perfection onto a extremely traumatized human being. I am not saying she did not make errors, but you cannot live without making errors, and you cannot recognize them as mistakes as they are happening because that would be having hindsight 20/20 vision., It is literally impossible. She didn't hand him a gun, she tried to raise him with empathy. She was a better mother than my own.

"But she educated in Mental Health!" Sue Klebold was (sorry) barely a mental health professional. She was a therapeutic art teacher. Kass says art therapist but its more or less the same.. I'm not trying to be rude here, but that is basically meaningless when we are talking about being capable of recognizing warning signs. Like, I have actual background in psych as an industry, I've been getting education in it since I was in grade 10. (I took all my necessary psych courses but didn't want to waste money on a fucking French requirement) What I can tell you is that both her status as a therapeutic art teacher and her minor in psych is worthless as far as identifying warning signs in the 90's go. They are not responsible for diagnostics.

"She doesn't address gun control" You know this is actually really interesting. There were a few instances of mentioning gun control, one was a video interview breakfast conference with Sue back in 2018ish, a sort of blink and you'll miss. She mentioned that she does have an issue with how accessible guns were and are, but was terrified of the NRA. I do not blame her here and I think it speaks volumes of how terrifying those people are and the fucking blood on their hands (I'm not here to debate with gun nuts, i'm not anti gun so save it.)

"She says brain health" Omg…I get the joke but if you're serious. who the fuck cares? She's an old lady who grew up in a time where mental illness was seen as a severe negative moral failing and she doesn't want to inadvertently make it harder for people to seek out mental health treatment for fear of being seen as a crazy "mental case". This difficulty is what killed her son. Do I agree with her choice of terminology? No in fact I think its counterproductive (sorta).

BUT honestly, ya'll who say this seriously, sound like this lol

"She ignored Dylan when she heard him crying" No she didn't. this is a conflation of two events. I posted about this before, go look.

"How did she not notice his weight loss" She did, and she responded by offering him extra food between meals.

Dylan was a really tall guy, when you are a very tall teenage guy, you often look borderline anorexic no matter the amount you eat, and I recognize he lost weight but if I was bearing witness to it in real life I doubt i'd notice. I don't think it was as severe as people say too. They cite D's driver's license but that was certainly a guess on his part, he didn't weigh that much in 1997-98.

Your metabolism is fast, and you've got a lot of body that inherently makes you lose weight quick. Brooks Brown looked just as scrawny back then. Also eating disorders (I doubt he had one but regardless) were barely recognized for women back then, if anything it was encouraged (tuberculosis chic anyone lol) But for men? Forget it. It wasn't a thing. It's barely recognized as a problem now. If something isn't a thing or seen as a problem then chances are, you, a non researcher, won't know about it.

"But Randy Brown dislikes Sue's book and calls her book full of lies." Randy Brown dislikes Sues book and calls it a book of lies for a variety of reasons; none of them good. One is because Sue believes Dylan killed himself. Randy hates Eric Harris with a fruity passion and he thinks he murdered Dylan. He doesn't think there was mental illness present in either of them (obviously he's wrong lol). So does his creepy son Brooks Brown for that matter. Randy Brown as far as I'm concerned is a narcissist just like his son (Yes, I just told you to be wary of anyone who uses this label but know I do no use it because of sexism, but rather a long documented history involving himself in something that ultimately has nothing to do with him, if you want to criticize me for it fine.), who has placed himself in front of someone who was directly involved in this case and started speaking over her as an authority figure. He acts like he's some sort of expert on Dylan but no. Anytime you ask him for this secret bit of evidence he says he has, he refuses to provide it. He isn't an expert on Dylan.

(I understand these are 4 years old but he doesn't change his mind often)

Also Sue seems to have not regarded the relationship between Judy and herself as close as the Brown's like to portray. I think this reddit user summed it up better than I could

If Sue believed Randy's hypothesis about Eric people would still call her a narcissist too. Same thing with whole focusing on bullying as a cause that Randy has. She really is backed into a corner.

"She doesn't want the BT's to be released" This is another reason why Randy dislikes her. Let's do a little thought exercise shall we. When D did what he did the entire world pointed the finger at Sue. Half of the BT's were just the two boneheads thinking of every slur and going off, drooling on themselves and encouraging others to do the same.

Most professionals agree that it would inspire more shootings. Even in Canada we have a BSU (behavioral science unit) who advises against the release of this sort of material and had this happen similarly in 2019. Whether or not I agree or you do is irrelevant here (not that it matters, JeffCo releasing the cafeteria footage made this entire thing pointless anyway) If you are in her shoes, and the entire world blames you for the shooting, and professionals are telling you the release of these tapes would inspire others to take more lives in the name of your son, would you want them released? Probably not.

"She kept her hair appointment" So? Her son just went out and killed others and then himself. Would you want to be sitting at the breakfast table alone, looking at the place your son used to sit and its fucking empty? She was having panic attacks and was terrified of being alone. One of the worst things you can do when you've been traumatized like that is being alone, the presence of others is helpful. If you can't understand that…like…I can't help you here.

She was preoccupied with the junior photo thing Yeah I don't really have a defence for this but can only empathize and call others to do the same. I think she was an anxiety perfectionist. Given the outlined anxiety we went over above I don't think this is as surprising. She regrets it everyday. Again, this didn't drive D into doing what he did.

"What About the Laptop Stealing?" You know I'm not convinced Tom told her that happened. I have always gotten the impression that Tom gave Dylan this sense of accountability avoidance, imo the guy kind of comes off with an air of ego (I wonder if that's why D showed some distancing from his dad). Even when D got involved in that locker incident, he sends D out so he can deal with this for him? Weird. Also even if she did I think it is unreasonable for you to expect her to bring up every happening of D's life. A bit of kleptomania doesn't mean they're gonna kill someone.

"She didn't notice him SH" Dylan was such an interesting critter that he chose his hands to do it on. We don't know how often he did it but regardless of frequency I doubt anyone would notice. It's one of those "its so stupid its smart" deals. They had cats and bird, My brain would automatically assume it was cat scratches or a bird bite.

"She sometimes calls it Eric's plan"

We don't know who came up with it first, some mistakenly believe it was 100% Dylan as he started journalling first before Eric. But we don't know, it was probably at the same time, Either way. Silly yes, but 100% due to again the advisement of malicious professionals.

“She only does it for image” nah. The world pointed the finger and blamed her. It asked how this happened. She answered to the best of her ability and found healing in her work.

She wasn’t a public figure she could have stayed in the dark, private like the Harrises but she didn’t. Her image is constantly being called a narcissist every 5 seconds despite being a wonderful person. She’s in a unique position and decided to become a force for good.

“Oh well who cares we’re tcc so we can be immoral its stupid to care about morality so ill shit on victims if i want” A lot of people in this community are genuinely wonderful people. You aren’t inherently immoral for being here. If you want to use your presence here as a crutch and an excuse for you to continue to be a shitty fucking person that's your business. Your insistence of a lack of morality is still an insistence of a certain kind of morality, you just don’t like the one where you get judged as an a hole. Get over yourself.

"She said to that one person she has nothing to apologize for after they said i forgive you" as far as the shooting goes, she doesn't. Her son is not her.

"Why do so many people call the mothers of perpetrators narcissists?" Watch this from 1:29:00-1:60:00 ish. It also has some interesting bits about Ed Gein and the problem with the normie true crime types (not us).

Conclusion 1/Normie Public Reaction/TedTalk (sort of)

They complain that she makes Dylan sympathetic. What is the alternative? They demonize him into a monster that is so beyond human that people can continue writing off the human warning signs that make up a mass shooter? We complain so often here that people demonize far too often. And I agree so I’m grateful that she has spent so much time trying to counteract the “Demon” narrative (even with Eric, she speaks in a pathological manner, rather than some monster sense.)

Dylan was person who was clearly dearly loved, he lived his short life as a very sensitive suicidal person who turned apathetic and homicidal. If he doesn’t care about his own life its not exactly shocking he doesn’t care about hurting strangers (I do genuinely think they mentally blocked out any image of hurting their friends and tried not to dwell on it.)

I think its well within her right to emphasize that he was a person. He was a person that was loved, that loved others.

The world pointed the finger at the parents, and criticized them further and implied their guilt when they were met with silence by them. The biggest question people had was “How did YOU not know”.

So she responded on how, on what she missed so parents don’t make the same mistake. She emphasizes she was not abusive nor was her husband. She has every right to do this as everyone accused her of being abusive. She has every right to defend herself.

Sue Klebold is every high horse “i’m better than you” parent or person’s worst nightmare. She tells you that your perfect teenagers can be depressed, she tells you of the normalized signs of teenage depression that drove her son to kill others and then himself.

She tells you of his human traits; how loving he was as a little boy, peering into her eyes to see if she was healing after a nasty eye infection and crafting her an imperfect Get Well i love you Pegasus as a present to make her feel well, how smart he was counting pinto beans on the floor at 3.

She shows you that it is a human being that commits these acts, not some inhuman demon that is the offspring of a demon. The insistence of anything other then that is copeium. It is a self soothing tactic of “this can’t happen to me, i’m such a great parent”

And she shows her profound love for him, even now. Emphasizing his humanity in a sea of people saying he was a soulless deranged monster.

Despite what he did she collected him like a precious treasure, accompanying him to his cremation despite clearly not wanting him to be cremated (fuck people who desecrate graves by the way) making sure he got a funeral, then spending the rest of her life trying to understand why he did what he did. Throwing herself into a callous, vicious public eye to try to make it up to her son despite him being dead for over a decade when she first came out publicly.

She isn’t a narcissist, she isn’t evil. She isn’t a b*tch. She is a lovely human being who has been through severe trauma. She loved Dylan. Dylan loved her. I know she doubts that. But he clearly did, even when he was about to “leave” he tried to offer her a comfort in the last tape (no matter how churlish it was) telling her he was going to a better place.

I find it unfortunate that Eric's parents couldn't do the same for him so all we have about him are what the careless professionals have to say about him.

Conclusion 2

If anything, this is a lesson in why society must be aware of psychological problems and the variety of ways they manifest and who they can manifest in. A society that makes this information incredibly accessible and integral to parenting is NECESSARY. Not fucking shoving it into the back of a closet and pretending it doesn't exist or making it some moral issue. It is also a lesson in the danger of a culture that is based on domination and hierarchy instead of one that embraces empathy and compassion, both in the extended real world but also in an academic setting (a school culture that treats its athletes with reverence for instance). Bullying had its place in cause but I don't think it's the #1 factor, not by a long shot. I guarantee Isiah Shoels had it worse than those two. Kyle Velasquez too. A bunch of others who had it worse. They didn't do anything to hurt anyone, they didn't plan a shooting. Neither did the 2000 others in that school. Sure they thought of it from time to time, but at the end of the day they didn't, and E+D did. I believe there is something that exists as a fragile foundation that primes certain people for violence. And if you add bullying onto it and ease of access to firearms and normalizing the making of bombs and a friendship with this sort of mutuality, it knocks everything over like a deck of cards. D+E had severe pride issues, and entitlement issues by the end of their lives (as an example, Harris blaming the shooting on the women who turned him down, as if he was entitled to them?), I think most of it stemming from their young age they had an inherent ego centrism to both of them that they probably would have grown out of had they lived to see 25. Like part of the reason D and E were so mad is not just because they were bullied, its because they were at the bottom of the hierarchy which is why they went after freshmen once they aged out of that demographic D even says he wanted what the jocks have (while saying he doesn't lol). E too though indirectly. Both boys prioritized an aesthetic of violence and revenge. I do think this is part of the reason why boys/men are more prone into doing this sort of thing, and being external and blamey about their problems too (not that women are incapable of violence, but the rates of Men vs women aren't even close and they are far more external.). Violence is apart of their socialization blueprint/archetype which is why so many of them are obsessed with media displays of violence that is rewarded with power. Bullying demasculinizes them. Damaged masculinity "redeems" itself through violence. It is the ultimate "Now you see me". D+E went from bottom of the barrel to…I don't want to call them icons. But they certainly solidified themselves into history as we're still talking about them 26 years later.

Anyway, I don't know, I guess I just get a kick out of people who have endless amounts of compassion for two murderers, but absolutely none for the family that loved them very dearly. If you're one of the people gleefully slobbering over yourself about how much you hate Sue and how you can't wait until she dies (yes, I have seen this way too many times here) that's fine, have your weird tantrum. You are just another one of those people that hates on victims, and you're certainly not morally justified.

It feels hippy dippy to say, but I find myself wanting their to be some sort of kind merciful god out there that grants all of us inner peace and reunification, so so badly. I don't believe in any sort of afterlife, but I pray Sue's passing is a gentle one, and I hope she gets to see Dylan again, I really do. For both of their sake.

[bvidzsoo]

Every time I see you...chapter 4 ↰

...my throbbing heart rate spikes up

Author: bvidzsoo

Pairing: Song Mingi x female reader

☆ Warning: cursing, alcohol consumption ☆ Word count: 6.6k ☆ Rating: nc-17 ☆ Genre: slice of life, established relationship, post university setting, angst ☆ Summary: Nothing feels better than waking up in a warm bed with your sweetheart cooking breakfast, the scent of pancakes wafting through the open door. The only problem is that Mingi isn't your sweetheart, not exactly, and the night ends in an unexpected turn with your heart heavy and cheeks tear streaked.

☆ Visuals ☆

M.list ~ Previous Chapter

A/N: Hello, my lovelies! The new chapter is here and, well...we'll speak once you've read it haha. Nothing good lasts forever...or it does? If communication is good, I'd say it does but, oh, well...thank you for reading this story so far, I really appreciate your comments and feedback. I cannot say when the next update will be as I am focusing on finishing the drabbles for mine and Mina's March Event (which you should take a look at!^^) because we have fixed deadlines (that I've fallen behind on lol, nothing to worry about, I work best under pressure lmao.) I hope you enjoy this chapter and sorry for making you wait for the next one, I'll try to make it worth! Lmk what you thought of this chapter! ^^ divider

Taglist: @spicxbnny @hongjoongspoetry

🎧𝛦𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝑡𝑖𝓂𝑒 𝐼 𝘴𝑒𝑒 𝑦𝜎𝓊, 𝓂𝑦 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝜎𝑏𝑏𝑖𝑛𝑔 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑡 𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 / 𝑆𝑝𝑖𝑘𝑒𝘴 𝓊𝑝 ℓ𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑎 𝑟𝑎𝑐𝑒 𝘴𝑡𝑖���ℓ 𝑡𝜎 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝘴 𝒹𝑎𝑦 / 𝛵ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝜎𝑡𝑡𝜎𝓂 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝐼 𝑓𝜎𝓊𝑛𝒹 𝜎𝓊𝑡 𝘸𝑎𝘴 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝘴𝑡 𝑏𝑎𝘴𝑒 (𝑏𝓊𝑡 𝑦𝜎𝓊’ℓℓ 𝑛𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑘𝑛𝜎𝘸) /… 𝐼 𝒹𝜎𝑛’𝑡 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝒹 𝑎 𝓂𝑎𝑛, 𝒿𝓊𝘴𝑡 𝑎𝑐𝑐𝑒𝘴𝘴𝜎𝑟𝑖𝑒𝘴🎧

            I groaned as something bright and warm fell on my face, making me scrunch it up in annoyance as it bothered my peace. Had I not closed the curtains before going to bed last night? I groaned again, a little louder, and turned onto my stomach to bury my head into my pillow. It was always a bit tricky waking up after my day off; the pull of the warm bed was really tricky and easily made me oversleep, and then I’d have to rush to the store. But if the sun was directly blazing on my face, it meant I still had some time before I’d be late to work. Pulling my head off the pillow, I turned it back towards the window, reaching my right hand out, only to feel up an empty space. My eyebrows furrowed as I opened one eye, instantly getting blinded by the sun. I sighed and stared at the empty spot next to me. The blanket was crumbled, and the sheets were pulled together in a way I knew only Mingi could make them be. He had a talent for getting tangled up in the sheets in his sleep, sometimes, it was hilarious waking up to him with his pillow over his head or the blanket wrapped around his body in an awkward position. That’s mostly why we slept with separate blankets; he’d hog it way too often, but since I had washed the spare one yesterday, we had to share my big blanket last night. It wasn’t as bad as I had expected it to be, even though Mingi tried to tease me by pressing his cold feet against mine until I gave his shin a rather firm kick.

I wondered where he had disappeared to now, pondering whether he had gone home already. There were mornings when he’d quickly rush home before I could wake up, but as my brain cleared more and registered everything around itself, I realised a sweet smell was in the air. I flipped onto my back and rubbed my eyes to get the sleep out of them, a smile pulling at my lips as I heard the tinkering of pans and pots out in the kitchen. The bedroom door was left slightly ajar so that Mingi's tinkering in the kitchen wouldn’t wake me but so that the delicious smell could trick me out of bed. I chuckled and grabbed the edge of the blanket to pull it over my head, stretching my body out as I groaned in satisfaction when my vertebras popped. The croaking of the floorboards outside my door caught my attention, and I pulled the blanket off my head just as Mingi stepped inside the room with an amused smile on his lips.

“Good morning, Aurora.” I scoffed at his teasing, pouting up at him as he approached the bed.

“It’s not even late,” I grumbled, my voice a bit scratchy from having not used it for a while, “What are you doing up so early anyway?”

“Breakfast, can’t you tell?” Mingi raised an eyebrow as I hummed, glancing past him through the fully opened door now. Based on the delicious scents, I could guess that he was most likely making pancakes. Mingi loved pancakes, and he didn’t miss a chance to serve them whenever the opportunity was given to him.

“Are you done with it?” I asked, giving him a mischievous smile that made Mingi’s eyes narrow in suspicion.

“Does it matter?” He asked, leaning down, his hand resting next to my pillow as I chuckled.

“It sure does,” I mused, reaching a hand out to trace his bottom lip gently, “Because I’m not getting out of bed yet.”

“Well, my princess, I can serve breakfast in bed for—” Mingi cut himself off with a high-pitched scream as I grabbed his arm and forcefully yanked him down into the bed, thankfully he had half the mind to fall next to me and not completely on me, he was heavy since he was tall. Mingi’s large eyes stared at me as he raised his head, adjusting his position into a more comfortable one as I giggled, leaning forward to press a kiss against his lips, morning breath be damned. It was rather obvious that he didn’t know how to react, and it only made me laugh as I manhandled him onto his back before turning him onto his side, forcing him to face the sun.

“You should’ve closed the curtains, you monster.” I imitated his low voice, rather badly, as I cuddled up to his broad back, throwing my arm and leg around him. Mingi yelped as I fisted his blouse and pulled him back into my chest, my leg around his thighs tightening, “Now I’ll make you pay for waking the princess so early on.”

“Really?” Mingi’s tone dripped with amusement as I felt his fingers sneak around my wrist, “How?”

I smirked, leaning my head up to kiss his nape, knowing that it would tease him and give him the wrong idea. Mingi hummed low, intertwining our fingers over his heart as he pried my tight grip on his blouse off. I bit my bottom lip to try and stop my huge grin from spreading all over my lips.

“You are being sentenced to an indefinite time of cuddling with the princess.” My tone was serious as Mingi paused, making no sounds, “And you’ll be the small spoon too, princess.”

That got Mingi laughing, his chest rumbling as he raised our intertwined hands and pressed a kiss against my knuckles. I giggled and buried my head into his broad back, gently kissing it as we settled down into a comfortable silence. Mingi hummed, tracing my knuckles with his bare fingers, curling up his body to give me the chance to hug him into myself. My eyes fluttered closed as I pressed my forehead against his nape, breathing steadily and revelling in his familiar scent.

“You turned the stove off, right?” I mumbled into his skin, and Mingi hummed, nodding slightly.

“I have no intentions of burning down your lovely apartment.” I chuckled as I poked at his chest with my index finger.

“Great, thanks.” After a thought, I asked another question, “You made pancakes, didn’t you?”

“Guilty. Am I being charged for that too?” I could hear the smile in Mingi’s voice as he asked, his tone low, and I laughed, pursing my lips.

“Perhaps, yes, but I have to figure out what the punishment will be.” Mingi chuckled, wriggling his legs like a little child, “Although I can’t complain about getting free breakfast brought to me in bed.”

“Ah, ah, we are eating in the kitchen. If I spoil you too much, you’ll become too demanding, my princess.” I scoffed, staring at the back of his head, pouting slightly.

“As if…I’ve never had breakfast in bed before.” Mingi chuckled, turning his head to look back at me. We couldn’t exactly see each other, but I did raise my head to try and meet his gaze.

“Did someone buy you flowers? I saw them on the counter.”

“Yeah, I did. They are pretty, aren’t they?”

“They are, do you want me to buy you flowers in the future?”

Did I want that? I gulped, biting my bottom lip as my heart lurched suddenly. What was this? I thought my stupid thoughts and conflicting emotions were a thing of yesterday, of the past, and wouldn’t bleed into today, “I mean…I think, yes.”

“I’ll keep that in mind, then,” Mingi muttered, flattening our interlocked palms against his chest. His heart was beating steadily, his skin warm through his pyjama’s blouse. I closed my eyes and sighed, enjoying the silence as neither one of us said anything else. Mingi started humming something slow and quiet, something he most probably listened to on his vinyl. It sounded beautiful, soothing, and comforting…much like Mingi himself. I found myself chewing on my bottom lip again, wondering if Mingi felt the same way in my presence as I felt in his. It was a jarring thought, the curiosity to know more about Mingi’s thoughts. He was like an open book, yet I realised I never really knew what exactly was going through his mind. He could read my mind so easily, it made me wish I could do the same for him. Perhaps then I’d understand why he’d stare at me so deeply sometimes, why his smile would soften and his eyes would light up if I laughed, why he loved holding my hands even if we were just sitting down in the living room, watching a movie.

A whisper, something faint and so very quiet I almost missed it, echoed in my ears, telling me that I knew the answers to my questions. It was so obvious, it was right in front of me. Mingi had never shied away from the truth. But I was afraid that if I admitted that there might be something more between the two of us, it would become real. I didn’t want that, I liked the serenity of right now and the secure feeling I only get when around Mingi. He shifted slightly, turning on his side and making me scoot back a little bit as our eyes found each other, his soft while mine searched his face. He raised his head and leaned forward, pressing a kiss against my forehead.

“Do you want to meet up before the get-together?” Mingi asked, his voice low. I nodded as I pulled my hand out of his to turn him fully onto his back, slithering closer to Mingi until I was lying halfway on top of him. He grunted but hugged an arm around my waist, his large palm warm against my skin. I hugged him as best as I could, burying my face in his neck as my heart raced, wondering why I didn’t want this moment to end, why I wanted to lay in his arms, in my bed, forever. Mingi hummed almost as if he heard my thoughts, burying his nose in my hair as he gently caressed my lower back, “We should eat before the pancakes go cold.”

“Five more minutes?” I mumbled into his skin, giving in to the urge to pepper kisses against his collarbone and neck.

“Okay,” Mingi whispered, his body relaxing further underneath mine as I pressed a long kiss against his jaw, my eyes fluttering closed. I wished I could capture this moment and keep it forever, store it deep in my heart, away from any prying and questioning eyes. I never wanted Mingi to walk away, and that was scary; that meant I felt too much for him already.

            The day went by in a blur now that I had something to be excited over. I had been wondering what to wear all day long, and all that hard work to clean my closet went down the drain just a day later as I tried to find the right outfit. It wasn’t anything complicated or fancy, but I rarely went out nowadays, so I wanted to pretty myself up. The get-together was at one of Seonghwa’s fancy houses; him coming from a rich family came with such benefits. And despite his status, Seonghwa remained humble and a great person to hang out with. He had been one of the first people to welcome me onto campus, so excited to have all the freshmen gather up in front of the building, his papers stacked neatly in his hands, his smile bright as he called everyone’s name to make sure they were there before he gave us a tour of the university and its grounds.

The house was already filled with people by the time Mingi and I arrived. Our hands were intertwined until we walked up to the front porch, ringing the buzzer despite being able to just walk inside. We knew Seonghwa preferred it that way, always lurking close to the lobby so that he could welcome everyone. He was beyond ecstatic when he opened the door and saw it was us, pulling us into bone-crushing hugs as Mingi laughed, and I handed him our little gift. It wasn’t anything expensive but the corner store wine Seonghwa would often get drunk off of during our crazy years; it made him laugh as he beckoned us inside with a wide smile. From there on, Mingi and I had migrated towards the kitchen, accepting the glasses of wine from Hongjoong, Seonghwa’s husband. The two had moved fast, but they had no regrets, living their happy and quiet life in one of Seonghwa’s massive homes. Hongjoong was trying to break through in the fashion industry, and Seonghwa's mother’s expertise was certainly of help to him.

I remained mostly by Mingi’s side at first, conversing with our old friends or the new people we were introduced to. At some point, Jongho joined us too, already drunk and jolly. We were sitting at Seonghwa’s massive oak table in the dining room, laughing about a story a guy I didn’t know was retelling. He seemed to be on good terms with Hongjoong, though. The two looked like they had known each other for a long time, and Hongjoong would look mortified any time the guy remembered something new that we might not have heard about. Jongho’s arm was around my chair as we were huddled close together, watching silly TikTok videos on his phone, when I felt Mingi’s hand settle on my thigh, squeezing it reassuringly. I glanced at him from the corner of my eyes, but his attention was on the guy now making a scene, his voice shrill and loud as he and Hongjoong argued about the accuracy of his story. I paid no mind to Mingi as I made Jongho scroll to the next video, mumbling about wanting to show me something, just as Seonghwa walked inside the room, two familiar faces on both sides of him. I gasped as my eyes widened, and I was out of the chair before anyone could stop me.

I reached Giselle first since she jumped in front of me, hugging me tightly and even lifting me off the floor and whirling me around, making me yelp as I held onto her for dear life. Wendy joined in on the hug when my feet touched the ground once again, and we giggled to ourselves as Seonghwa took my previous spot, smiling fondly as he said something to Mingi. And from then on, the girls and I found a nice sofa in Seonghwa’s living room and huddled together to catch up on life. Giselle was back in the country but only for two weeks; her next exposition would be closer to home, and she managed to negotiate to lessen her stay period over there. Wendy was planning on taking some vacation time off and going home, relaxing to recharge before she embarked on her new project. We giggled and shared stories throughout the night, going from tipsy to drunk as our glasses were always refilled with some fancy wine that was rather sweet than dry. At some point, Mingi had wandered over to us and greeted the girls with a big grin, asking whether we wanted to have dinner. We weren’t hungry, so we declined, and Mingi left only after ruffling my hair and telling me to keep it down with the alcohol. He was right; my worst enemy was hangovers, and even if it was Saturday tomorrow, he knew I would hate myself if I had to stay in bed all day long.

“So,” Giselle spoke up, glancing at Wendy before looking back at me, “Mingi, huh?”

My eyebrows furrowed as I took a sip of my wine, my tongue tingly and my legs a little numb, “What about Mingi?”

My speech wasn’t slurred, but I was only two glasses away from it.

“Well, I heard you arrived together,” Giselle said, as if that meant anything. I scoffed, tilting my head with amusement.

“And? Everyone knows Mingi and I are friends, no?” My eyebrows furrowed when Wendy and Giselle glanced at each other, “Or do people not know? I thought it was obvious…”

“Oh, there’s certainly something obvious about you two; I just don’t think it’s your friendship.” Wendy snorted, placing her chin in her palm as my eyebrows furrowed even more. What were they talking about?

“I’m lost,” I huffed, “What do you mean?”

“It’s pretty obvious to everyone in this room that you two are dating.” Giselle said, breaking the silence that would’ve stretched on, “Why didn’t you tell us—”

“Wait.” I raised my palm, an incredulous laugh bubbling past my lips as I closed my eyes for a second, “Dating? Mingi and me? That’s ridiculous. We aren’t dating, not even in the slightest.”

“We don’t buy it.” Wendy fired quickly, grabbing my wrist when I went to take a sip of my drink, “He’s been looking at you with hearts in his eyes the whole evening, he checks up on you every hour, and he never goes far enough that he can’t keep his eyes on you. I haven’t seen a friend who’s that protective, to be honest, so you can’t lie to us.”

“I know we don’t meet up as often nowadays,” Giselle started with a pout as I turned my head to look at her, “but I thought you’d tell us something like this still. It’s pretty important if you ask me…”

Wendy nodded in agreement, looking at me expectantly. I gulped, my eyebrows furrowing as I looked around the room, finding Mingi leaning against the fireplace with a beer in his hand, speaking to Yugyeom and someone I didn’t know. He was smiling, listening attentively to whatever was being said, but almost as if he felt my gaze on him, he looked up, and our eyes met. His expression softened, and he tipped his can of beer in my direction, winking before he looked back at Yugyeom, nodding to something he was saying. I bit my bottom lip, feeling my two friends’ eyes boring into the sides of my face.

“You know we saw that, now, spill.” Wendy pressed, and I sighed, looking down at my lap as I played with my glass of wine. What was there to spill? Mingi and I weren’t together, and therefore, there was no groundbreaking news I should have told them about. We were friends and nothing more; maybe our intimacy went further than that, but that meant nothing.

“We are friends, nothing more.” I took a sip of my wine, wondering where Hongjoong had disappeared to with the sweet alcohol in my glass, “But we’ve grown closer over the years, after graduating especially. I don’t know, we just…we’ve been sleeping together, I guess.”

“I knew it!” Wendy exclaimed, making a few heads turn in our direction. She smiled sheepishly, and I cleared my throat, glancing at Giselle since she was still silent. She had a contemplative look on her face.

“For how long?” She asked, genuinely curious.

I shrugged, averting my eyes from my friends, “For ten months.”

“What?!” They echoed, their jaws slack as they glanced at each other before looking back at me with an incredulous look on their faces. I grimaced and looked around, making sure no one was trying to eavesdrop on our conversation. My eyes found Mingi again as I chewed on my bottom lip, wondering how much more I wanted to share with the two girls. I felt like they wouldn’t understand what we had, that our intimacy was just as much platonic and nonsexual as sexual too. It just made sense to me, to Mingi, and I hesitated in saying it out loud because I knew many people wouldn’t understand how that worked or what that meant.

“Yeah, it’s not a big deal. We are friends who sleep together sometimes, nothing’s changed besides that.” I muttered, downing my wine. Giselle’s eyebrows furrowed as she grabbed my hand.

“Are you saying you’ve never discussed what you two are?” This is why I didn’t like talking about Mingi and me, about whatever we had. They clearly didn’t understand and probably wouldn’t either.

“We don’t have to discuss it, Giselle, because there’s nothing to discuss. I can’t explain it either because it’s unlike anything I’ve experienced before.” My tone was harsh even if I didn’t mean it to be, and I sighed as I looked at Wendy and then at Giselle, “Let’s just drop this topic, please.”

“Okay,” Giselle said, but Wendy didn’t look done with this yet.

“You can deny it all you want, Y/N, but you’re in lo—” I stood abruptly, trying to keep my glare off my face as I looked at Wendy sharply.

“I’ll go and get a refill. Want something from the kitchen?” Wendy gave me a pointed stare as she shook her head, and Giselle shrugged, looking down at her own glass.

“Can you check if Hwa has any chips? I’d like some salted ones.” I nodded and turned around to head for the kitchen, my steps were heavy as I stomped through the house. I didn’t look at anyone as my head swirled uncomfortably, my thoughts eating me up and wondering what Wendy would’ve said if I hadn’t cut her off. But I didn’t have to wonder too hard since I already knew the answer, the skip of my heart proving it when I realised Mingi had brushed up next to me. He looked handsome tonight, ravishing even, in his form-fitting muddy green t-shirt, black cargo pants and thick boots. It showed off his physique nicely, his wide shoulders and small waist, the gentle but firm muscles of his biceps, and his broad chest. His black hair was gelled back, his small eyes sharper tonight as he had asked me to deepen them with some black eyeshadow. His numerous necklaces and bracelets were eye-catching, and his hands were littered with his silver rings. I sighed as I found the bottle of wine and poured myself some.

“Something happened?” Mingi asked gently, eyebrows furrowed. I shook my head and took a sip of my wine, taken aback when I realised it wasn’t the same one I had been drinking. Mingi noticed my grimace and chuckled, leaning over the counter to grab a different bottle of wine, “You’ve been drinking this one, not that one. That’s Hongjoong’s favourite, that’s why it’s so full, nobody really drinks it.”

I glanced down at the glass and hummed, deciding that I would finish it since I had poured it out for myself. I hoped Hongjoong wouldn’t mind too much, “Are you enjoying yourself?”

“If I say no, will you want to go home?”

“Well, is your answer then, no?”

“Nope, I’m having fun.” I shuddered when I felt Mingi’s pinkie brushing against mine, and I retracted my hand, very aware that anyone could see us right now. I didn’t want Wendy and Giselle to give me looks when I returned to them, so I busied myself by walking around the counter to look for chips in the cupboards.

“Okay, me too. Let me know when you want to head home.” Home, as in my apartment. Mingi was sleeping over tonight as well, we had concluded it was best I didn’t roam the city on my own if I accidentally became drunk…which I was, just not too drunk yet.

“I will, save me some chips.” Mingi grinned before he left the kitchen, making me slouch against the counter as I sighed, feeling something heavy settle over my chest. The night had started out great, and yet, I was regretting it now. Was it really visible to everyone in this house that Mingi and I were sleeping together? Did everyone think we were a couple, much like Giselle and Wendy? My jaw clenched as I grabbed the salted chips and my glass, marching back to my two friends. If they didn’t bring this subject up again, I knew I’d be able to relax at last, but for that, I needed more alcohol and less Mingi.

            By the time 3 am rolled around, everyone was drunk and tired, so it was time to depart from Seonghwa’s mini-mansion and head home. My feet felt heavy, and I was sure I would’ve fallen to the ground if it hadn’t been for the arm hooked around mine, keeping me steady despite Mingi’s already wobbly stance. We were both drunk, there was no denying it, our giggles and laughter loud on the empty streets as we walked further away from the fancy neighbourhood Seonghwa lived in. We’d thought about calling a cab or catching a late-night bus, but the crisp night air felt refreshing against our heated skin, and we’d already been walking for fifteen minutes. We only had about ten more and we’d finally reach my apartment. The streets were empty and dark, illuminated by the lampposts and the full moon above our heads, our guide for the night. I giggled at the sound Mingi made, trying to imitate the owls that hid on the tree branches.

“That was horrible.” I laughed, leaning my head against his shoulder as Mingi scoffed loudly and dramatically.

“No, it wasn’t! You try doing it, then.” He shrugged his shoulder to make my head bounce, and I laughed, looking up at the star-filled sky. Taking a deep breath, I let out a loud sound that was a mixture of a roar and a meow, terrible and so horrible I almost choked on my own spit. Mingi stumbled on his feet hearing it, then pressed a hand against his mouth as he broke out into hysterical laughter, making me pout with a huff. It wasn’t even that bad.

“Stop it!” I whined, pulling away to punch his shoulder. Mingi just laughed louder, clutching his stomach as we stopped walking. I threw a second punch to make sure it hurt this time, and Mingi whined, grabbing his left shoulder as his eyes widened, “Don’t look at me like that, I told you to stop.”

“You’re always so demanding.” Mingi groaned, rubbing the sore spot as I stuck my tongue out at him, taking off again. He was hot on my heels as he threw his arm around my shoulder, yanking me into the side of his body and almost making me lose my footing. I huffed and grabbed him around the waist, turning my head to bite into his chest since his jacket was pulled to the side. Mingi yelped and suddenly stopped, grabbing my jaw and yanking my head up, “Are you possessed by a wild cat, baby? What’s with you tonight?”

I giggled, staring up into his eyes with mischief, “No, I’m just drunk.”

Then, before he could anticipate my next move, I pushed him back by his firm chest and took off running down the street, squealing like a lunatic as I jumped on benches too, trying to put much distance between Mingi and me. He was calling out my name, voice loud and higher pitched, his pursuit loud as he stomped after me, asking me to stop before I got hurt. But I didn’t listen to him as I giggled, the wind whipped at my face as I ran even faster, barely missing the boulder which would’ve sent me to the ground, giving me a nasty bruise. Running like this in my inebriated state wasn’t smart; my feet felt heavy, and my head spun as I whirled around to try and gauge how far Mingi was, but all I saw was a blur of his dark leather jacket and hair slowly catching up with me. I giggled and faced forward again, ignoring the red light for the crosswalk since there were no cars around, and grabbed the lamppost as I made a circle, sticking my tongue out at Mingi when I saw the scrutinising look he sent me. Before he could grab me, however, I took off again, laughing loudly as I was reminded of a time back in university when we were stranded under a store’s canopy while it rained cats and dogs. We were drunk then, too, and my brilliant idea had been to run out into the rain and jump into puddles. Mingi was against it until he saw how much fun I was having, and he joined me as we jumped into every puddle on the street. I didn’t let him blame me after we both came down with a cold the next day.

My apartment complex was in sight as I smiled to myself, my heart racing as I slowed down into a casual jog, fishing around my pockets for my keys. Mingi’s ragged breaths reached my ears before his arms were wrapped around my torso, his breathing loud as he squeezed me.

“That was foul, I feel like I’m about to throw up.” He panted as I chuckled, unlocking the entrance to the building, “You’re laughing, but I’m being serious, baby.”

I scoffed and stopped walking, turning my head to look up at him, “Baby? Why the sudden petname?”

“Can’t I give you one?” Mingi raised an eyebrow, his tone snappy. I shrugged and started walking again, albeit struggling a bit since Mingi continued to cling to me. Walking up the stairs would be a challenge like this, but it was for shits and giggles after all. I could only hope my neighbours wouldn’t hate me too much since Mingi and I were far from being quiet, stumbling into the railing multiple times while we giggled, our bellies hurting from all the laughter. Mingi refused to release me, however, so getting up to my floor was even more difficult with our drunkenness added to it. But truthfully to us, we made it and then stumbled on the last step, shooting forward straight into my door. Something made a loud sound, and my eyes widened as I turned my head, watching Mingi’s grimacing face, his forehead leaning on the sturdy door. I had caught my fall with my left hand, but it seemed like Mingi wasn’t as lucky as me.

“Fuck, I think I just split my head in two,” Mingi muttered, rubbing the already-reddening spot and I pressed my lips together in hopes to stifle my laughter, but it was fruitless. The second our eyes met, I started laughing loudly with little regard for our neighbour's sleep, Mingi’s lips downturned into a pout as he gave me a sad look, “It hurts like a bitch, don’t laugh at me! You’re so evil, Y/N.”

That only made me laugh louder, but it was muffled by Mingi’s free hand pressing against my mouth. He couldn’t stop my laughter like that, but at least it wouldn’t wake the whole floor up. He also took the keys from my hands and tried to open the door as I finally was able to calm down, and playfully bit Mingi’s finger as he yelped. He gave me an incredulous look as he pulled his hand back, and I chuckled, hugging him around his waist as he finally unlocked the door. He pushed it open and stepped inside, pulling me with him since I didn’t want to let go yet. The door closed with a soft click behind us, and Mingi turned the light on in the small hallway, shifting around in my arms so we faced each other. His arms came to hug me around the neck, head lowered as I peered up into his eyes. He looked pretty in the dim lighting, I couldn’t help but smile at him as he hummed, brushing a strand of hair off my face. My vision of hanging up fairy lights in the entrance hallway suddenly returned as I realised the light would be reflected in Mingi’s soft and warm eyes, bouncing off his smooth skin and painting him in a warm glow. I gulped, finding myself breathless for no reason.

“I want to hang up fairy lights in this hallway,” Mingi nodded as I spoke, his face focused and eyes searching my face. His expression had turned serious all of a sudden, and I found my heart racing nervously, “I think they would look pretty, plus I don’t like how dark it is in this hallway. I could leave them on overnight.”

Mingi just hummed, cupping my face as his eyes landed on my lips, his tongue poking out to wet his. I gulped, finding myself mimicking him, still breathless and my cheeks warm, “You’d also look really pretty underneath the lights.”

Mingi froze for just a second, body tensing before he dived forward, his lips catching mine in a passionate kiss. I sighed as I pressed up on my tiptoes, fingers burying in his leather jacket as Mingi’s warm lips captured mine between his, insistent but attentive so he wasn’t overdoing it. I stepped closer until our bodies were flush together, and my head tilted back, a whimper escaped my lips when I felt Mingi’s fingers sink into my hair, holding onto gently. He didn’t have to ask for me to open up; I did it naturally and eagerly as our tongues swiped against each other, hungry and hot. Mingi tasted like cheap beer and caramel, I had seen him sneaking a few caramel candies into his pockets before we left Seonghwa’s place. He hummed against my lips as I let him have his way, front teeth catching my bottom lip and suckling on it as I felt my cheeks become even hotter. My hands slipped underneath his leather jacket and generously felt up his firm chest before settling on his back, my nails digging through the thin fabric and into his skin. I felt myself moving backwards until I collided with the door and Mingi moaned as I sucked on his tongue, eager to get his jacket off so that I could undress him. I couldn’t explain the sudden want in my body, the heaviness on my chest a little lighter now that it was just the two of us. I wanted to feel his naked hot body pressed against mine, skin to skin and heart to heart.

As I gripped the collar of his jacket, I felt Mingi’s fingers wrapping around my wrists and his head pulling back, puffs of hot breath hitting my lips. His eyes opened as I licked my lips, staring up at him a bit dazed. The sudden rush of oxygen felt almost sickening, but I paid it no mind as my eyes bore into Mingi’s. They were shaking, they looked utterly vulnerable as they hid an emotion I couldn’t quite read. I realised even his hands felt to be gripping desperately around my wrists and I gulped, wondering if something happened that made him feel like this. Perhaps his friends, too, had been drilling him about the two of us. I knew Mingi was a sensitive person, and once something bothered him, it would stay on his mind for a long time. But before I could voice my concerns, Mingi gulped and then spoke.

“I love you.” I felt my blood run cold as my fingers tightened into the leather, my eyebrows twitching.

“Mingi.” I whispered, an incredulous laugh falling off my lips, “You don’t.”

I didn’t let him speak as I pressed our lips together to silence him, but Mingi was pulling back as he shook his head, “Yeah, I do. I love you.”

My heart was racing still, but the excitement was replaced with anxiety. My jaw clenched as I looked at his face, registering the panic and desperation in his expression.

“I love you, Y/N.” I flinched as I felt his hands cup my cheek, his head leaning closer as he forced me to stare into his eyes, “I really—”

“No.” I cut him off, voice trembling as I grabbed his arms, fingers aching as they dug into his jacket, “Stop it, Mingi, you don’t know what you’re saying. We are drunk.”

“Sober or drunk, it really doesn’t matter, baby.” His voice was low and a bit rough, riddled with slight panic, “I love you no matter what.”

“Fuck, no, you don’t, Mingi.” I snapped, my voice harder as I felt my hands shake, my eyebrows furrowing. It was as if someone had splashed cold water over my head; my toes felt numb and my legs too heavy to move. I couldn’t look at Mingi’s face anymore, so I averted my eyes, dread settling in my chest. Had Giselle and Wendy talked to him? This couldn’t be happening, not now. Why did Mingi have to love me? We’ve been fine until now; why would he ruin our friendship over something as silly as love?! Did he even know what love meant? Why was he so sure he loved me?!

“Y/N, please just—”

“No, Mingi, you don’t love me.” It felt as if someone had a vice-like grip around my throat, making it harder and harder to breathe and speak, “Stop with the nonsense.”

“You are the one speaking nonsense, Y/N.” Mingi snapped, eyebrows furrowing for a second before obvious fear crossed his features, “I love you. I will say it as many times as I have to, until you believe me. I love you. I really love you, Y/N, I—”

“Shut up!” I didn’t shout, but my voice was higher as I slapped his hands away, wishing to take a step back, but the door behind me stopped me from doing so. Instead, I pushed at Mingi’s chest to put distance between us as it suddenly felt hard to breathe, my bottom lip trembling, “Get out.”

“What?” Mingi’s face fell, his eyes widening.

“Go home,” I whispered and grabbed the doorknob, twisting it so that I could open it for him. Mingi was frozen, gaping at me as if I had just said the most horrible thing to him. I didn’t look at him as I gulped, feeling the overwhelming urge to cry. He had to leave now, I refused to cry in front of him after he told me he loved me.

“Y/N—”

“Goodnight, Mingi.”

A beat of silence passed as neither one of us moved, and a chill ran up my arms as Mingi’s jaw locked, his eyes narrowing into sharp slits. I didn’t care, at least I told myself, as he brushed past me without a greeting or a kiss to my forehead, without brushing his fingers against mine sneakily, without a sweet and warm smile on his lips as he winked. I slammed the door shut as I heard him going down the stairs and quickly locked the door, scared he’d let his stubborn mind win and turn him back around, storming back inside my apartment. My legs suddenly gave out as I gasped, my brain in a daze from the alcohol and Mingi’s words as they swam in my head, loud and clear as if he was still standing in front of me and repeating them.

The only problem was that it had started sounding mocking and insincere the longer it echoed in my ears, and I flinched when I felt my cold tears streaming down my cheeks. And then, out of nowhere, a painful sob tore through my chest, shaking my body as I pulled my knees up into my chest, crying until there were no tears left. Love was a dangerous feeling; it never lasted, and it was misleading. It’s never been kind or fair to me, I couldn’t do it. Mingi wasn’t in love with me, he was just confused.

>> next chapter

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[nudityandnerdery]

Anyone who lives in a red state wouldn't be surprised that Dallas said fuck you to ice. But these privileged people who shit on every poor, trashy, gerrymandered "red" state citizen are surprised when poor people stand up for their mixed communities. Y'all think we're all bigots since y'all grew up in bigoted upper middle class communities with bigoted upper middle class families. Meanwhile we're out here with queer, mixed, black, white, brown, trans, gay, lesbian, male, female communities where matriarchy runs strong despite the government trying to obliterate us and managing to turn a few of us against each other and blast that minority all over the news. We've always been more diverse than y'all will ever be and because of growing up together we're also less bigoted than y'all. It's the government and like 2 old geezers that's fucking racist homophobic and misogynist. Not us. We love each other, all races and queer shit. We don't care.

Hey there, boo, I'm gonna just take a second to screen shot something I wrote on that post a few weeks back, just for some context:

So, hold your fire, okay? I grew up in a red state. I know that it's not all shitty people, okay? My surprise was literally that the COPS were saying no.

But, I also want to just take a second to gently push back a little bit on something you said:

We've always been more diverse than y'all will ever be and because of growing up together we're also less bigoted than y'all. It's the government and like 2 old geezers that's fucking racist homophobic and misogynist.

Hey. Do me a favor. Think about something for a second:

Who voted in that government? How did they get into power?

It wasn't just two old geezers, okay? You know as well as I do that there's bigots who are voting for these shitbags. And pretending that rural towns are an oasis of harmony and acceptance is the same stupid shit as pretending big cities are. I mean, let's look at recent electoral results. How did your county vote in the presidential race? Where I live right now, the county went roughly 65-35 for Trump. Hasn't gone to a Democratic candidate since LBJ.

It wasn't just two old geezers who got two votes that counted as 65% of the election here, you know? There's plenty of other people that went along with making the government more bigoted. Fucking millions across the country, rural and suburban and urban locations alike.

I'm not saying "Everyone living outside of a metropolis in a blue state is a bigot!" here, obviously, that's not what I'm going for. I'm not saying everyone living in a metropolis in a blue state is open-minded, either, of course, because shitbags gonna be shitbags wherever they're from- like the Felon who got elected, he's grown up in NYC and a racist dick for decades.

But I am saying that being blind to the flaws of places we love is incredibly dangerous, and that attacking each other over pointless shit like where we live is just feeding into the bullshit division that wealthy, powerful assholes use to keep us divided and from actually having an electorate that could support policies that would help large swathes of the nation, and take away the power that their money and control gives them.

So. Just something to think about. Assuming someone is an out-of-touch big city liberal who hates anyone living in a rural area is about as useful as assuming anyone living in a rural area is a MAGA fanatic who hates anyone living in a big city.

Aaaaaanyway. The American inability to acknowledge how class war is what will doom this country is near pathological. Sorry to the rest of the world that we're gonna drag so many of you into our bullshit.

[taxideermied]

Hi hi! Thanks all for the respectful discussion on this topic. I've enjoyed reading the notes and additions very much. I want to say, though, that this will be the last time I plan on discussing this topic on this post because I'm not particularly interested in full-time discourse on my blog, and also because it's becoming a little unwieldy for me personally to deal with a super long post lol. I am making this last addition for the sake of clarity as to my claims for anyone reading my blog, not to necessarily sway anyone's opinion.

With that said, I think some of my points have been missed/misconstrued.

Firstly, my original post was about mindful messaging more than anything. Mainly: if you have an issue with something in the community, don't swing a wide net because you risk hurting those adjecent to your problem. That physical nonhumanity was involved was tangential, but nonetheless that's where we went.

So, secondly, and I hope this is clear, I am not advocating for an anti-science approach to nonhumanity, nor am I advocating for blind faith. I specifically avoided the subject outside of my original post where I said the community at large discusses scientifically unverifiable experiences. I think we are all in agreement that self-perception such as Sundragon's "I feel like a dragon" is not scientifically verifiable, but is still "valid" in this space, so I don't feel the need to elaborate on that point.

Where I think my statements are unclear (and for the record, this is on me for not being as specific as I could have been) is in the issue of claim vs expression of personal experience. I think this in conjunction with "subjective verses objective experience" is a little bit difficult to parse so bare with me.

My sense of the community is that those who experience and discuss physical shifts do so because it is an expression of personal experience, not because it is a claim. This is a part of their nonhumanity for whatever reason they may have. It is not a claim because I have not seen anyone trying to prove their experience to anyone else, merely discuss it and relate to like-minded individuals. This does not mean you don't have to be skeptical, but I do not believe your disbelief means that these members of our community should self-censor or be subject to demands for proof. Someone talking about something they feel on a personal blog is not the same as them putting a thought into the "marketplace of ideas" to be debated and verified. While I don't think anyone in this thread did so directly, I feel like the line of thinking suggested here could encourage "proof demanding" behavior.

So what about the tricky subjective vs objective experience issue? Surely physical shapeshifting is an objective experience. Well, again, I think there's nuance here. Is the shifter in question insisting that the transformation is 100% verifiably happening in the reality experienced by others, so much so it could be captured on camera if only one worked properly in the moment? Or are they asserting that they perceive their own physical shifts? All objective experiences are filtered through a subjective lens because you are a brain that perceives the world through sensory organs. You are not experiencing a 1:1 recreation of the world. As a friend eloquently put it: "None of us experience reality-as-it-is. All of us, even people who don't know what a therian is, have some level of disconnect with objective reality. Our experience of the world is imperfect; talking about those experiences is not a claim about shared-truth, it's a claim about personal-truth." See: the parable of blind men touching an elephant. One person's experience of objective truth is not the disproving of another's, even if it conflicts.

Finally, there's the synthesis of these issues regarding how we shepherd the community from within.

If your issues with physical shifters is with those who claim to shift verifiably in a collective reality and claim this is something that can be taught or who otherwise encourage cult-like mentalities, then vis a vis my first point, say that those are the individuals and/or paradigms you take issue with. Nothing wrong with pointing out harmful practices, but lumping harmful ones in with harmless ones is irresponsible.

If your issues are with all physical nonhumans or those who discuss scientifically unverifiable personal objective experiences in a way that harms no one, then I would suggest, I guess, in the kindest terms, to get over it. What is the other option? As far as I can tell, censorship or other methods of driving these individuals out of the community, and I personally don't feel comfortable taking that route. I don't think we as a community would be better off in doing so.

Okay. I think that is everything. Thank you for bearing with me if you read all this, I appreciate it very much! If anyone is still interested in talking this over with me, shoot me an ask and I'll (maybe) respond. Like I said, not trying to be a discourse blog, so I can only do so much.

If you’re going to assert science in a community full of people discussing their scientifically unverifiable experiences I think you should consider what you’re really trying to say. If you’re not trying to call people liars then there’s probably a better way to go about making your point than enumerating the reasons why you think they’re lying.

[inkyrainstorms]

To Inky & E,

ENTER PASSWORD: ********

<:Excerpt intercepted!: WELCOME BACK USER: STANFORD: >

Polly stole the ink for my journals again, and claimed it was for a “bonding ritual”. No matter, so I have decided to write— well I suppose Type. For today.

Might as well put F’s gift into good use.

To the outside observer it seems that “Polly” or as I shall refer to her (?) (Stan uses pronouns of feminine origin for the anomaly, however I wonder if their species has even our genders? Bill, himself identified as a Triangle, which leads to me to a whole different topic. However it seems female pronouns does not seem to bother her so I shall use those.) full name, Polydactyl Crimes Pines is an ordinary bird, but it seems she is more extraordinary than I have even imagined!

She has taken Shifty under her wing (both metaphorically and physically), and started communicating with him.

However she also tricked me into following her into a corner and interrogated me, mimicking uncanny voices of disappointment from famous people like Bill Nye, and my hero Nikola Tesla and used those voices to interrogated me on Parenting Practices.

I am now aware of the responsibilities, I will have uptake, and I had to call Shermie for advice. While I know I have Stan and Polly supporting me, I am bit anxious about raising a kid. Even if the kid, is an extraordinary alien shapeshifting child.

Things have been going okay with S, I’m still trying to get him re-adjusted to living on Earth again. He seems to like the local sodas, Pitt Colas. Even though I told him, that I have no clue how it’s staying in business, Pits are toxic to humans! Unfortunately S did not listen and in fact he looked me dead in the eyes and took a whole shot of soda.

And laughed at my apparently aghast face.

I…I’ve missed him. I’m so glad he’s here.

Little weird thing I wrote

-🪤

this is so fun I love Polydactyl Crimes Pines, she is the absolute MVP ever. Using Nikola Tesla against him is absolutely foul 😭😭 BUT!! Ford’s a dad now!!! And had Polly’s guidance! And Stan’s experience and also just I love that he has a future now. With is such a sappy thing to write on a post about Ford and the ups and downs of parents a shapeshifter alien baby, but it’s true. He’s got his brother with him and can berate him about health hazards day in and day out and it won’t change a thing because of course it wouldn’t, he’s got a whole being under his care now, and he’s free from the control of Bill. Ford’s finally got a future :D

I also adore the use of the computer, we gotta get some mileage out of that sometime.

and the Sherrie mention!!! Sherrie is far away raising his kids and completely unaware of the super horror thriller one of his brother lives in and the sci-fi comedy his other brothers life has devolved into. So many little loose strings. Sherrie, thou too shalt get thy time to shine

@aroace-get-out-of-my-face

[sizhens]

I remember i was debating with someone if people shouod really attribute things that racilized people made in the USA as being american because they arent treated like they're actually american citizens like should anything puerto ricans make be considered american when we're still called immigrants despite getting american citizenship from birth.

Like most people in the usa dont mean black people when they say americans, they only ever talk about black people when they're talking about black people specifically, like we're a different species or something. People outside the US recognize that black people are just americans but white people and even other racialized people in the USA at times certainly don't.

That doesn't even consider how divided things are physically between racialized and white communities. There's def been a history not only of white violence againts racialized people but also racial infighting I'd like to consider.

Can you really claim people as part of the culture when you never actually claim the people who made that culture as your own?

Even with discussions of fascism theres an implicit idea that people who aren't white don't count as part of the country, was the trans atlantic slave trade and jimcrow era not something that effected people living in the USA, why does it not count if the people being targetted have dark skin. Even later on, does the way chinese immigrants not count either?

This isn't anything specific just rambling musings.

I think you're real for this and i think if i remember correctly it's something that hannah @sheetz had a post blow up about (or me? or both of us?) about how it feels ridiculous that people would consider indigenous cultural practices (hannah is a white indigenous woman) as an expression of "American diversity" when those people were actively genocided by The US American Project. I think it's also worth talking about how Black people are theorized by some to be considered an "internal colony" and how this might be relevant in the framework of understanding the particular relationship that racial contradiction has in the US. I am not myself well read enough on this framework to comment much more on it. That said, I think it's also worth thinking about the ways that the framework of "Collaborationist" with the bourgeois/imperial/colonial regime may be relevant in understanding a lot of dynamics that people frequently consider to be more complicated than they really are. Like, a lot of people point to token symbols of political and financial power and success, of people taken from particular marginalized demographics, as examples of why those demographics don't experience classed oppression. when in reality, that's the exact purpose of that person's role -- to be a token collaborationist which allows the rhetorical justification for the system's existence.

[hkthatgffan]

do you have any unseen gravity falls storyboards from season 2?

Interesting question. Well, if you mean unseen storyboards as in stuff that I exclusively was given access to by a crew member, then sadly no. I though have found storyboards that previously were not known about that I helped popularize. For example, years back I found a group of storyboards that Alonso Ramirez Ramos posted to his public Facebook page in 2018. These were public but just no one had ever shared them beyond his Facebook and so, that was sort of a case of me finding unseen boards that got popular after. The Dipcifica community of course has been in love with those given the cut boards from NMM in them, but there were also some other cool boards like one of little Stan and Ford which were great to see too.

Other than that, there was a case of storyboards shared on TikTok by S. H. Cotugno that were previously unseen that I posted about which helped them gain attention outside of that app's userbase (I don't use TikTok and never plan to, so I found out about them through other means and it led there).

But, beyond this stuff, there's not really any storyboards from season 2 that I have which only I have seen or ones that are so obscure that fans barely know that haven't been shared or are up on the wiki.

Well...there is one case of that though...

Back in 2023, I interviewed Ethan Marak of Stoopid Buddy Stoodios for a video on my channel.

During the interview, Ethan revealed to me something rather insane; THERE'S AN ANIMATED VERSION OF CLAY DAY FROM LITTLE GIFT SHOP OF HORRORS!

What I mean is that as we know in the episode, there is stop motion of the various monsters that the gang encounters and in the movie they're watching. Well, as it turns out, the Gravity Falls crew animated all the monster in the episode for real, and there's a cut of it with all the stop motion instead being regular Gravity Falls style animation.

The animation was done to help map out the movement of the stop motion, given they had a limited budget. So, getting everything right was crucial. Sadly, as that is all internal work owned by Disney, I was not allowed to share it and unless things change or...idk...some ex Disney TVA employee with too much access leaks it to 4chan again like the pilots that leaked last year, I will sadly not be able to ever show it. That said, Robertryan Cory shared these designs of the characters publicly years back that look very similar to what I was sent. But what I was shown were colourized versions and almost final looks of the characters, as well as ACTUAL screenshots from the production version of the episode that had the monsters animated in GF style with storyboards and also fully animated designs. It was incredible to see but again, it's something I can't share.

But imagine these images, just animated and coloured in full. That's what I was given access to.

Ethan did let me share never before seen production photos from when they were making the stop motion characters, which I am allowed to show.

But yeah, besides this, there's not really anything major Gravity Falls related that I have that I can share (besides of course the many, MANY things Alex Hirsch told me and Hana off record that we're sworn to secrecy about). It's a real bummer tbh as part of me of course wants to share this info with the fandom, because I don't wanna gatekeep or hoard info about the show that fans may love to hear. But at the same time, I give these crew members my trust when I work with them on these interviews and breaking that is the fastest way to never being able to talk to any of them again which in turn, prevents any new info from being able to be shared that I could discuss. So, it's a case of having to retain info I can't share, in favour of more info that I CAN share.

But long story short, that's basically what I got related to GF season 2 storyboards the average fan may not know about.

NOW, CAN THE GRAVITY FALLS CREW INSTEAD SHARE DELETED STORYBOARDS AND STUFF FROM SEASON 1? I NEED MORE OF THAT TBH!

[acti-veg]

Hi! So uh, first of all I just wanted to say thank you for everything you do :) your book and your blog were some of the main things that even made me go vegan in the first place and I still learn a lot from your articles and posts!! You’re an amazing activist! Seeing people like you restores my faith in humanity tbh so thank you again so so much 💗

Anyway, I’m writing this ask because I’ve been struggling a lot emotionally as a vegan and I feel like I need advice from someone more experienced. I know you must spend a lot of time interacting with carnists when advocating for veganism. You’ve been doing this for years and still you’re going strong, so I just wonder how you manage to stay positive and not get too hurt in the process…

My problem is that whenever I see animal products or hear people spreading carnist views I react overly strongly. Often, I almost feel physical pain and can’t bring myself to interact with those people, it just hurts so much. Animal cruelty is everywhere and it feels like I can’t do anything about it. It’s heartbreaking, horrifying, depressing, and the worst part is how normalised it is.

It feels like there’s no escape. Somehow I can’t go outside without walking past a meat market, I can’t cook for myself without seeing a chicken corpse in the fridge, I can’t even play a video game without seeing images of animal products, etc... All these things are supposed to be normal, but they’re just so distressing to me. What makes me feel especially horrible is seeing/hearing anti-vegans spreading misinformation and such. I feel like if I see another post saying that "leather is good and sustainable actually" I’m going to explode. Is it just me or are other people that affected as well?

This would probably be easier to deal with if I had an ethical vegan friend or two who’d understand how I feel, but I don’t have any. I live with four carnists and even my partner apparently hates vegans (tried to tell them about my feelings and they got personally offended). And I know there’s a big community of vegan people out there, but there’s not nearly enough of us and I still feel so isolated and alone in my experiences.

I’m so sorry for venting. What I meant to ask is, do you ever feel like that? Is there anything that can help me not feel depressed whenever I see animal products? And thank you so much again for doing what you do. You are truly a wonderful person and I hope life treats you well <3

Thank you for the kind words, I’m so glad my blog had an impact on you!

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been having such a bad time of it, I wish I could say that this isn’t common but I’ve had dozens of asks like this one. I firmly believe that going vegan is an extremely positive decision, but there are negatives that come from knowing what we know, and trying to exist in a society that is built on the backs of exploited animals. We have all felt like this, myself included.

Honestly, it sounds like you may consuming a bit too much vegan content, or possibly spending too much time engaging wifh and thinking about veganism specifically. Do you have any hobbies that help relax and distract you? Reading, gaming, exercise? I find all of these really helpful for clearing my head, especially exercise. There is such a thing as overexposure for vegans, and I’ve definitely been there myself.

What helps me most is trying to focus on the positive side of being vegan. Follow more positive content like sanctuaries, rescue centres, recipe creators, plant-based fitness blogs - whatever makes you happy. Avoid engaging with upsetting content, that includes graphic footage of any kind, anti-vegan content, debates and arguments. Create a little bubble for yourself that you can escape in, even if that means having seperate accounts for when you’re feeling this way and just want some escapism.

Try and visit an animal sanctuary, even if you have to make this a long term goal if there isn’t one that is accessible to you. I can’t describe how helpful this is an experience, to remember who this is all about and the fact that not all animals are suffering and unhappy. Seeing wild animals in their natural habitat can achieve the same thing.

For me, the best balm to this sort of feeling is activism. It is a big part of why I do this, it isn’t all altruistic. Turning some people of that negative towards something positive can help you feel much less helpless. See if there are any animal rights groups in your area (you’d also make vegan friends) but if not, try doing some of your own work, even if that is just online, signing/making petitions, blogging, letter writing - whatever you can do.

I’d also recommend this talk from Melanie Joy about activist burnout, which something close to what you’re experiencing, and she has some really helpful advice. That pain and disconnect from others will always be there, but I hope you manage to find some tools for coping with it that work for you, that is really all any of us can do. Take care of yourself, anon!

[fen-the-magnificat]

& July-et Fest

HELLO AMPERSTANS!!!

Very excited to bring to you today our very first fandom event!! & July-et will span the month of July, split into four weeks, with three prompts per week inspired by the main couples, from which you can create fanworks to your heart's content!.

However, your fanworks do not have to be about the couple the week is dedicated to - feel free to create anything you wish, inspired by the prompts.

There is also no posting schedule/deadlines. The aim is to have fun, and not stress about your creations. Choose as many, or as few, prompts as you want. Mix and match. Fuck around. Find out.

If you have any questions, shoot me a message/ask on this account, or to reggie (@thetisming). Finally, add the tag #andjulyet to any posts so we all can enjoy them!! (Ao3-ers, I will make a collection at the start of the month)

Finally finally, have fun!!

[krazieka2]

Vampire Mercedes lore doodles (and vampire Lorenz bullying)

[ceramicbeetle]

i kind of hate to say it because i feel like i'll get pushback for it,,, but i kind of feel like if you're going to be making informational posts about autism online you do need to be reading actual autism research and literature. at least some of the times. like you can't just make things up and then present them as fact.

[silusvesuius]

g*lmar rly has to be the best skajrim character on the real like even if you don't like him he just is . literally The best one i think......... on dat note i also imagine that he and ulfr*c despite being fairydust BFFs for lyfe genuinely have the worst communication skills ever seen

[souptimewithfrogs]

So I work at a tool store, right? In the South. I'm mostly at register so I get to talk to all of the customers. Something that caught my attention recently is the confidence of folks to express violence after Trump's win. I was lucky enough to be off the days following the election but I was back to work that Friday.

I remember a customer coming up with a socket set that was missing a few pieces, and we had a bit of conversation. Theft is fairly common at my store, much like it is throughout all of retail. I mentioned this, and how it was especially common for this type of item. His response was, "Those people need the crap beat out of them." Honestly, I'm not sure if this man's casual call for violence was a result of the election or a consequence of being in the South, but it struck me as unusual. I didn't really have a response for him, so I just checked him out and he left. I've had a few other customers come up and talk about the election results, but that one stuck out to me.

I've seen so many people online pleading for their friends and their community to just survive and to keep living. I've had conversations with my friends who are afraid to ask who their parents voted for out of fear of knowing that they voted against everything they believe in. One of my friends has diabetes and she's worried that she'll be able to keep getting her medication after this.

I honestly don't know the most about this stuff, but what I can see is on one side people are pleading for their lives, and the other is calling for violence.

[orcelito]

hey since i have access to all my phone's photos much more easily, check out my old violin

got it from my great uncle, who said it belonged to His grandpa. so we r looking at like 4 generations up here. he gave it to me in 2010 ish bc im the only person in the family that plays violin lol. & being in middle school, i named it Star :')

it still plays well, too! not my default for when i play bc i use my newer violin for that. but i still value her greatly

[captainseamech]

//... HT is definitively the 'I can fix them or at least try to make their situation better' muse of mine and honestly idk how to feel