#out of all the s1 adults they make the most sense

[nolassolace]

Morgcedes is underrated and I'm tired of y'all sleeping on them.

[hellotailor]

Apologies if you've already done a post on this and I've just missed it, but can I ask for your take on the pyjamas worn by the cast of interview with vampire? I mean technically they're not a 100% necessary item, but just from a quick look there seems to be a lot of variety and they do change over the series

ok, i’m delighted by the specificity of this question, and it turns out that i have a VERY extensive answer.

there’s a lot of sleepwear in IWTV due to the volume of bedroom/coffin scenes, and like any other outfit, these costumes are shaped by characterization and historical period. for instance claudia initially wears a long, modest, frilly nightgown - an old-fashioned style that plays into her girlish doll wardrobe purchased by louis and lestat. however her sleepwear matures over the years, including a trendy lace nightdress with bloomers in the 1920s (note the rectangular silhouette), and a pink padded jacket/pastel robe outfit in 1940s paris. she's following contemporary trends while charting a visible trajectory from child to adult.

when i wrote about the Théâtre des Vampires coven costumes, i noted that while their wardrobes share certain themes (ie. monochrome patterns and stripes), they each have specific personal tastes. that holds true for sleepwear. in the S2 finale we see the coven going to bed in their coffins, with Eglee in a gorgeous (maybe 1940s?) robe, Celeste in a striped pajama suit reflecting her 1920s-30s cabaret style, and Armand in a plain grey set of prison jammies because he's Suffering.

of course, the star pajama outfits all belong to Louis and Lestat, playing into their wealthy domestic aesthetic in S1. they receive multiple bedroom/coffin scenes, and Lestat's gold Leyendecker robe is obviously iconic.

touching on the historical side of things for a moment, pajamas (as in a matching buttondown top and loose pants) were popularized in the western world in the 19th century, as a repurposed south asian import - kind of like how banyans became trendy among the upper classes in 18th century england. this was when loungewear started to catch on as a concept, both in terms of dressing gowns and smoking jackets (which you could wear while socializing at home) and actual pajamas, which became unisex in the 1920s.

back in his human life in the 18th century, Lestat probably slept naked or wore a shapeless white nightgown (and possibly a nightcap, the sexiest of garments). but in New Orleans he adopts Louis' lifestyle, which involves a luxurious wardrobe of fashionable menswear. they're both into shopping and looking good, and i think they enjoy the ritual of getting dressed together each night.

(i also have a personal theory that Lestat may prefer to sleep fully clothed because his formative traumatic memory involves waking up naked in the dark. after all, he doesn't need pajamas to stay warm, and he doesn't have a recent habit of wearing them in his human life like Louis does. then again, maybe he just enjoys having a new outfit for every occasion!)

in Dubai, we only get one scene (iirc) with Louis and Armand in their pajamas, lying in bed wearing outfits that tie into the striped prison bar imagery of their bedroom. Armand is in warmer brown tones (like his Paris wardrobe) while Louis is in black and grey, like the rest of his Dubai outfits. i'd also note that this is the one place where they're genuine in private, meaning that they aren't putting on a show for Daniel. so this is potentially Armand's most relaxed costume in the present day.

the fact that they're wearing this kind of old-school sleepwear feels very appropriate for their whole deal, imo. in the 21st century, a lot of people just sleep in boxers and t-shirts or whatever. there's a slightly 20th century vibe to wearing a full set of buttondown pajamas, and Armand's outfit reads as more stylish (and possibly more wealthy) than your average millennial guy. which makes sense! they're old men.

i think we can assume that every single thing in their Dubai home is ferociously expensive, even when it doesn't need to be. considering the way Louis gives himself a modern makeover in the finale, i do wonder if he'll switch over to sleeping in t-shirts etc next season, or if he'll stick with variations of the same sleepwear he wore during his mortal life.

p.s. all of my iwtv design posts are available on this tag!

[danandfuckingjonlmao]

something that has bothered me about tua seasons 2-4 is the inconsistency of the relationships between the siblings.

starting with klaus, in season 1 ben and diego were his people. ben and klaus were always shown together in the flashbacks to them as kids and obviously every second of the show because klaus was the only one who could see him. but like… they were CLOSE. SO FUCKING CLOSE. they were the most SIBLINGS of all the siblings.

that continued into season 2. ben was randomly a bit colder towards klaus but they were still so fucking close.

and then ben left, and klaus for the first time was alone without his person. everyone else lost a brother when they were 17, except klaus. so he had to grieve ben for the first time. that didn’t happen, though. there were many nods to them being close, and then of course steve blackman pulled a steve blackman which means weird unnecessary incest implications, but it wasn’t clear just how close klaus and brellie ben were even though it had to be hard to be around someone who looked like ben and was kind of ben but also wasn’t ben.

and with diego, it also seemed like he and klaus were incredibly close. diego older-brothered klaus constantly s1 and they gave off the impression that they ran into each other a lot in the city during the years since leaving the academy.

then they completely disregarded it for the rest of the seasons. in s2 and s3 there a few interactions that could lend credence to this but for the most part it seemed like they threw it out the window.

allison and klaus had no clear relationship in season 1. they had some incredibly minor sibling interactions but nothing that indicated they were anywhere near as close as they imply in season 4. season 2 they were close and then season 3 not a lot of interaction. but s4 makes it seem like they have always been incredibly close which doesn’t make sense!!

five and viktor have a relatively consistent friendship, although s4 doesn’t really give viktor any relationship development with his siblings. same with five, if anything he just gets his relationships destroyed but that’s a different post!!

allison and viktor also are pretty consistently close. the implication is that they weren’t as kids but that they really try to be as adults, and i do like their relationship overall.

luther and allison nasty ew kill it with fire. like i thought we established in s2 that incest is weird actually and that we weren’t doing that and then season 3 came along and whatever whatever shut up.

diego and luther’s relationship is fun. they go from adversaries to himbo besties and it’s relatively consistent.

luther and viktor have similar growth. luther goes from piece of shit basically causing the apocalypse s1 because of how shitty he was to viktor towards really wanting to make things right and being the big brother he always should have been. they didn’t really have a relationship s4 but WHATEVER.

i feel like five and luther were together a lot the first two seasons and that very much changed. i’m not even that upset as i think five having character arcs with each sibling is good since he missed so many years with them (other than him and viktor they were always close and should have remained that way).

i think allison and diego and viktor and diego having relationship development would have been cool. in the comics viktor and diego have a band so we know they’re friends. and in the show allison and diego don’t have too many interactions but the ones they do have are SOOOO SIBLING and i adore that.

ben and viktor have some closeness s3-4 (and the end of s2) but it’s not really something we see, more so we’re just told. and then random flashback to them hanging out as kids before the mission which was confusing.

i think five and klaus were done the dirtiest with the relationship inconsistency. i understand wanting different characters to have arcs with different people, but when you sacrifice the established relationships and basically put your characters on shuffle then you also sacrifice character consistency, development, growth, etc.

i think a big problem is how many characters they brought on last season. there wasn’t time for consistent relationships among the brellies when they had to use a shit ton of time building new characters and relationships (and immediately killing them all off which was A Choice).

anyway just wanted to write out thoughts about this. would love to know other people’s thoughts (or headcanons about the siblings).

[genericpuff]

You should watch Jack vs. Webtoons video on Lore Olympus before it gets wrongfully taken down.

His video pointed out something I wasn’t able to put into words until now. Lore Olympus has a real bad dialect problem. One second the characters are talking like they’re in a Shakespeare play which makes sense, sense they’re gods or what not. The next second you’ll have characters saying shit like “blue balls” “clout chaser” and “you’ve got a young wife with a fat ass”. It probably wouldn’t bother me if certain people talked a certain way like how Hera doesn’t use any slang and how Hermes uses some but all the characters vocabulary are the exact same.

Honestly I can look past the art and it’s inconsistencies but having dialect jump from regal to tiktok facebook slang makes my brain hurt more than glossy lipped Hades and bug eyed Persephone.

I checked it out, it's pretty great haha and yesss this is something that's been discussed before but I haven't really ever made a post about, the dialogue is CONSTANTLY flip-flopping between royal talk and "hello fellow teens" quipping. Sometimes it feels like it's trying to be like Marvel and then other times it feels like it's trying to be Bridgerton. I can think of no better example than all of the "pedigree" talk, it makes me squirm every time I read it because in the modern context of LO, it SCREAMS eugenics. The whole B-grade goddess thing made sense, until they started talking about Persephone like a poodle:

But then you ALSO get INCREDIBLY stiff dialogue that makes it seem like the comic is either being written by AI or Rachel is actually a real life version of Michael Afton post-scoop:

And yes, there is a tinfoil hat theory that LO is being written by bots at this point because I don't know how a single person could write something so tonally confused. That said, I do think the more reasonable explanation is that Rachel is likely copying dialogue from shows and movies she's watching and just tweaking it slightly before slapping it into LO. She's not observing why the dialogue works in the media she likes, she just knows she likes it and slaps it in there without any regard for context, tone of voice, or personality.

And that leads to, as you said, all the characters sounding the exact same, and that metric by which they all sound the same changes all the time. I think at this point the only reason we haven't seen Hera dropping TikTok language is because she hasn't been onscreen long enough for her to get the chance LMAO That said, we've definitely gotten some weird inconsistent dialogue with Hera as well:

(like she's essentially saying the exact same thing across both of these panels but one is being said by an adult and the other is being said by a teenager lmao)

I think the dialogue is definitely one of the most glaring issues with LO, among all of its other problems. It just never feels like it's being written by a human, there are problems with this even as far back as S1 but it's become especially apparent in S2 onwards.

To finish off this ask, here's one of my favorite dialogue mishaps in the entire series, from S1, in which Apollo literally adopts an askew English accent:

[irisbleufic]

Of all the current Devil’s Minion writers your playlist is the one I want to see. Do you have one? If not, are there particular songs you’ve been listening into to while you write? The vibe of your prose with them is hypnotizing like the short story about them in the books, it’s impressive, and does your music also inform this choice if at all?

Intense question, anon. Fourteen-year-old me fucking hyperventilated after reading the DM chapter in Queen of the Damned (me, on the floor of my bedroom at 3am because I don’t want to get caught reading this book, staring dazed at the ceiling; me, now, three weeks ago, sitting shellshocked on the sofa after watching S1 and S2 over two days as a binge; me, over two of those weeks following the binge, rereading the first half of the Chronicles and starting to see double, tilt the prism, see what happens when the narratives are overlaid and blurred), and it still feels like that. Likely my prose turning out the way it is in these stories is about 90% my giddy teenage self having access to my adult self’s writing experience to finally write this beloved pairing without fear of litigious letters (IYKYK, my fellow elder Millennials in the fandom). I don’t often love film and TV adaptations of my favorite books, but I adore this show. It’s flawlessly transformative; its improvements only make the resonances and overlaps that much more meaningful. No notes.

However, I have been listening to the same small handful of songs on repeat for 6 days as I write these pieces. I imagine they are affecting my sense of scansion at points; my writing life didn’t begin with fiction, it began with years of poetry before I ever tried prose. These tracks are as meaningful to me as poems as they are songs. It’s as good a starting point for a playlist as any; I’ll keep adding and put it together on Spotify at some point.

1. Vesuvius - Sufjan Stevens

Vesuvius, I am here

You are all I have

Fire of fire, I'm insecure

for it is all been made to plan

Though I know I will fail

I cannot be made to laugh

for in life as in death

I'd rather be burned

than be living in debt

This song was my entire first 72 hours of writing. I’m that Autistic weirdo who will listen to a single song on repeat for a month and think nothing of it. Villa of the Mysteries in Pompeii being the nexus point of their love story from beginning to end in QotD, this is everything to me; I was never going to be able to write about the show incarnation of them without integrating this location and this imagery in the most reverent love letter I know how. This is why my series title for these stories is Caldera. Volcanic crater blowout if ever I saw one; I ran with it.

2. I Forget Where We Were - Ben Howard

Hello love, my invincible friend; hello, love, the thistle and the burr. For you, I have so many words—and I, I forget where we were. I haven’t known this song for all that long in the grand scheme, but it found me via Spotify shuffle in 2022 right after something awful happened. The longing in this song hinges on one of the lovers in it waking up to something they’ve forgotten about their relationship, something precious, and I’m thrilled to finally have a fandom application for it.

3. Make You Better - The Decemberists

I sung you your twinges

I suffered you your tattle-tales

and when you broke sideways

I wanted you, I needed you, oh

to make me better

Oh, to make me better

But we're not so starry-eyed anymore

like the perfect paramour you were in your letters

And won't it all just come around to make you

let it all un-break you to the day that you met her

No excuse for this one; it does a great job of speaking for itself. Front-man Colin Meloy is one of my all-time favorite songwriters, and his work is frequently dark, creepy, and/or gothic enough in flavor that I could find a few more.

4. Song to the Siren - Elisabeth Fraser & This Mortal Coil

On the floating shipless oceans

I did all my best to smile

till your singing eyes and fingers

drew me loving to your isle

and you sang, “Sail to me,

sail to me, let me enfold you—

here I am, here I am,

waiting to hold you.”

This cover of Tim Buckley’s folk masterpiece completely transforms the vibe of the song, and in the kind of way you need for this pairing. This one is at responsible for the events and imagery in my “Still Life with Sunken Treasure.”

5. Hal - Yasmine Hamdan, Only Lovers Left Alive OST

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

يا عزيزة اطلعي

لأ ما أقدرشي

يا حبيبتي شرّفي

لأ ما أقدرشي

وطلعت يا ناس، مغلوبة يا ناس

يا عزيزة اتريحي

لأ ما أقدرشي

يا حبيبتي اتلحلحي

لأ ما أقدرشي

وسمعت يا ناس، مغلوبة يا ناس

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

يا عزيزة اتفرفشي

لأ ما أقدرشي

يا حبيبتي قربي

لأ ما أقدرشي

فرشنا يا ناس، مغلوبة يا ناس

يا عزيزة اقلعي

لأ ما أقدرشي

يا حبيبتي اتجرأي

لأ مش ممكن

شلحنا يا ناس، مغلوبة يا ناس

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

يا عزيزة اتغندريله

يا حبيبتي اتذوقيله

افهمي يا سيدي مش قادرة

وطبعا تقنعني مش واخدة

ايه يا عزيزة؟

ايه اللي إنتي عملاه ده؟

يا يا يا راجل يا هوه!

مش عيب عليك اختشي ونو

لأ ما أقدرشي

لأ مش ممكن

يا عزيزة اخلعي

لأ ما أقدرشي

يا حبيبتي اتشخلعي

لأ مش ممكن

يا خيبتي يا ناس، مغلوبة يا ناس

يا عزيزة اتبغددي

لأ ما أقدرشي

يا حبيبتي جربي

لأ ما أقدرشي

وجينا يا ناس، غلبنا يا ناس

جينا يا ناس، غلبنا يا ناس

I don’t think the Arabic justified to the correct side when I copied this, but the translation is very easy to find. I don’t speak Arabic, but honestly the English translation is dull compared to the beauty of this language. If you haven’t watched Only Lovers Left Alive, what the hell are you even doing with your vampire-loving, monster-fucking life? All the tracks on it have the right vibe for DM, really.

[milevenstancyendgame]

Mike's Intuition

Something I haven't seen talked about yet, is Mike's talent of intuition.

We see the most of it in s1, I think. His immediate connection to Eleven is the first glimpse we get of it. Whether you see it as love at first sight or not (the s4 monologue confirmed that, but that's not the point), he acted in a deeply compassionate, empathetic, and very mature way for his age (compare Lucas and Dustin's reactions). Instead of being freaked out by El, he just saw a lost child in need, and he understood that she must have gone through something awful, even though he had no idea what it was (just look at his face when he sees El holding the soft sweater to her cheek).

He also just "knew" that she wasn't a dangerous/bad person. Which was something the others were very worried about, especially after she displayed her superpowers. He just felt sorry for her and instantly liked her, just like that.

I think his most consequential decision came after he asked El to ring at their door, so his Mum could call for help, and she refused and made it clear that it would get both of them killed.

Instead of freaking out, he did what? Turned his bike around after having departed for school, and went straight back home to give El company for the day and play host to her.

Seriously, the switch is astounding. One moment, El thinks he's gonna tell his Mum about her and they will all die, and the next they are playing and laughing like happy, little children.

There's zero logic in this decision, it's just Mike acting on pure gut instinct. He cares for this girl without knowing why, despite knowing nothing about her, except that she means danger, and he just follows that feeling.

And nothing changed that, not her powers, not when the danger became real.

When El recognises Will on the photo, he also immediately believes that she can help them to find Will, and he never wavers in this conviction. But all that happened, was that she wordlessly pointed at Will.

Lucas' reaction to Mike's belief in this is actually really helpful to emphasise their strengths - Lucas is the voice of reason, while Mike is the voice of intuition. Dustin is in-between them.

Which is also why they make such a great team - they balance each other out, and you need both to solve a mystery. And typically in this kind of crime or mystery-solving story, you need at least a few characters who just follow their hunches, even though they know that it doesn't make any sense rationally and might just lead to a dead-end.

Mike is exactly that character (and Joyce is too, btw. There's even a beautiful visual parallel of both of them running into someone's arms at the end of "Holly Jolly"). When they pack their things for "expedition Mirkwood", Lucas once again doubts the whole plan and El, but Mike shushes him with "Just trust me on this one, okay?", which effectively shuts Lucas up. So it seems like they have good reason to trust Mike's intuition.

I also think that there was a good deal of self-blame afflicting him after they saw Will's fake body, and this was (among other things) the reason why he lashed out so strongly at El. He had trusted her, and he also had trusted his own evaluation of her and his belief that she would lead them to an ALIVE Will (which others had doubted). Even though there really was no reason to believe that Will would still be alive, just because El had presumably seen him at some point.

But then El uses the walkie talkie to prove to Mike that Will really is still alive, and it shows us that Mike's intuition had been right the whole time - again, like Joyce's.

Throughout the rest of s1, Mike remains the most open to any new explanations and possibilities that open up (like the idea of an interdimensional gate).

When Nancy and Hopper call them on the walkie talkie, he's immediately inclined to respond and makes the final decision.

After they team up with the teens and adults, and Hopper asks El to confirm the details of the gate, Dustin wonders "How does he know all of that?" And Mike responds "Because he's been there," giving us another neat example of his deeper understanding/reading of what's going on.

In s2, he likewise senses from the get-go that something seriously dangerous is happening to Will, so he supports him. He has no trouble understanding what Will is sharing about his supernatural experience and he easily syncs with Joyce in trying to connect Will's vine tunnel drawings (crazy together, lol). And again, he connects the dots and realises that the Mind-flayer lured them into a trap.

His intuition also remains just as adamant about El still being alive, as it had been about Will being still alive in s1! And the fact that he actually could sense El in the void is BIG. This boy has superpowers of his own.

S3 and s4 moved him into more comedic scenes/genre, so we saw less of this, but it's still a core character trait:

In s3, he again notices Will's unease in the cinema. He also was right on the money about El overexerting herself (which only got confirmed in s4 by Brenner, who said she had suffered from something like a stroke), which no one except Lucas (!!!) paid any heed to ("Oh shit, is that like a thing?").

In s4, apart from the comedy, the focus is precisely on Mike's insecurity and self-doubt overshadowing his intuitive understanding. Will has to give him a pep-talk and remind him of why he's their leader, which is the cue for him to tap into his superpower and pour out his heart/love to El to save her (Will's "You're the heart, okay? Remember that!" is pretty cryptic, even with the knowledge of what he's referring to, but Mike immediately switches from a panicking mind to his heart/intuition).

[princelance]

a movie........

time for a rant that has been a looong time coming because

the FUCK??? NOOOOOOOOOOOO PLEASE NO NO NO PLEASE GOD IF YOU'RE OUT THERE NEVER LET THIS MOVIE SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY NEVER EVEN MENTION THAT SHOW EVER AGAIN IN MY PRESENCE it should fucking DIE and stay DEAD

the WORST fandom i've ever come across/been part of. everyone was so fucking braindead. god the bullying here was So Bad. vld fandom was the epitome of 'you can't enjoy what you like'. and the bullies were like, some of the most popular blogs here. the content creators (among others ofc) here were NASTY. the people making decent art were so fucking rude to almost anyone that didn't bow down to them and agree with their views on the show, sitting on their high horse like they were fucking gods or something when they were like, 17 or something. mind u voltron was a show about ugly transformers lions and a bunch of kids in space meant for 7 YEAR OLDS. like stfu it's not deep, it's not important. i get that this is the internet i really do but apparently everyone was a pedo and homophobic and racist and needed to be cancelled because they weren't pure angels. i hope the people who liked the show, both teens and adults alike, have grown up and learnt what those words actually mean and why you shouldn't just casually throw them around. i hated you all. u had to be so careful about what you said on here, it was like north korea or something. i remember how kids got bullied into deleting their harmless fanfics, the fucking voice actors got bullied on a daily basis, it was BAD. i remember i got hate for having shiro as my icon and the background was the bi flag colours. I AM BI. also, so what if i had headcanoned shiro as bi, you couldn't have stopped me or anyone else from thinking that, and also IT WOULD NOT HAVE MATTERED, HE'S FICTIONAL, HE'S JUST LINES AND PIXELS. i know this is going to shatter some of your worlds (or at least would have back then), but a random ass nobody on tumblr headcanoning a character as bi when said character is "actually" straight/gay/whatever is NOT going to affect irl queer people in any way, it does NOT have real life consequences. who gives a fuck. since when has the fandom given a shit about canon anyway? fuck you.

okay, i've been bitching about the fandom enough (no i haven't, there's no way you can ever bitch about the vld fandom enough). what about the actual show? well. once again it's meant for 7 year olds. who cares if it was good or not. i've seen seasons 1–6. i liked season 1, didn't really like anything after that since the show seemed to change so much. the first season kind of has a different vibe completely? idk how to explain it, it just kind of feels like the actual show and then the rest was just a long fanfic by someone who was in love with keith's character. but since i was watching the show with my sister who was 10 at the time, it was fine, otherwise i wouldn't have kept watching after seeing season 2 i don't think.

here are a few negative things about the show imo:

making keith the main character out of nowhere after s1 (where he definitely wasn't the main focus) was so dumb. god the showrunners loved keith sooo much, it was so stupid. keith was nooot a leader. whatever.

making keith the black paladin was also so fucking stupid my god. and yes, everyone here wanting LANCE to become the black paladin just because he was the fandom favourite (don't get me wrong, he was my fave too) was so fucking braindead too honestly. shiro or allura. no one else made any sense.

canon allurance SUUUCKED. like holy shit that was so bad and horribly written, even lotor and allura had a better love story and had waaay more chemistry (and their relationship ended badly, rightfully so). and NO klance was never ever ever going to be canon, you were so delusional. like lmaooo did we even watch the same show? i just really enjoyed their dynamic and that's why i shipped them together, whatever. but yeah, like i said the bullying here was disgusting and everyone was cancelled, great, klance seemed to be the only thing you were allowed to like so in that sense i was lucky.

everything they did with allura in the later seasons............ you know what? i'm not even going to start. because wtfffffffff, as a storyteller myself i ?????? what in the world were they thinking. but yeah whatever it does not matter.

the point of this post is that EW EW EWWWW FUCK THAT SHOW AND FUCK YOU, if you were in the voltron fandom in 2017/2018 i personally hate you

[chaifootsteps]

I was trying to think how to recommend watching the show to someone who might have only seen s1 and figured recommending skipping some episodes of s2 might be the best way, but then I noticed something

when I was trying to pin down which episodes of s2 I think are genuinely good to still watch I kinda realized there isn't any?

like even the episodes I think are the 'best' written (as in they're the least frustrating, no Stolas in them obvs) are still rife with plot holes or jokes that don't land

like exes and ohs felt like the last gasp of the old show and even that episodes has Crimson's nonsense marriage plan that doesn't make a lick of sense. it underutilizes Millie to the point it feels like the writers are just being blatant about how little she matters now. it has the unfunny dildos in the wall joke.

and that's the best episode of s2 as far as I'm concerned. the only other one that's relatively not completely sucky is the midseason musical whatever and that's still pretty bland and has a Fizz who feels nothing like his s1 self in it.

even the shorts have plot holes and issues, despite being the closest to the show's original premise (and not featuring Stolas)

like taken as a whole the entire season is just garbage. Ghostfuckers I think is going to be more mid with a potentially very awful suicidality plot point. I think there's a chance the Millie bit is going to be secondary in awfulness to what they do with Blitzo if my hunch is right that they're going to make Tilla appear just as a means to give him catharsis so he can do the thing the show thinks will 'fix' him - get together with Stolas

I'm not sure how the last two are going to play out but there's near 100% going to be Via leaving Stolas for the stupidest reasons the show can conjure up so he can look like he's in the right, again.

the only thing that might be worthwhile from the remaining three episodes is if Stolas realizes he's done wrong and actually apologizes, and faces consequences for being the suckiest Goetia royal ever. but even then I expect the show to tie itself into a pretzel to find a way to minimize what he did or blame Blitzo for some of his misfortune, as if it was his fault Stolas never once said 'I can't talk about this right now, I'm spending time with my daughter/working/actually being a capable adult for once'

the only other thing I'd want from the season 2 finale is for IMP to feel like a family again and that vision of the show is so far in the rearview mirror I wouldn't even bother making it a prediction for the Sinsmas episode. that one should be about family and coming together, but apparently there are leaks suggesting it's the episode where Blitzo finally gives in and goes to play his role as Stolas' white knight, just like Stolas and Viv have been demanding from him all season long

Agreed, unfortunately. The best part of S2 so far has probably been the shorts...otherwise, it feels like a level of aimlessness, retcons, and plot holes that most series don't achieve until after they've run for years and exhausted all their good ideas.

[rogueorbit]

i just. don't agree with criticism of s2 that centres around the argument that alicent was "constantly and unfairly humiliated" as if there was any other way her arc could've realistically played out? being passed over as regent, kicked off the council, ending up alone, having a damn fish thrown at her: i'm sorry to say but these things were always going to happen to her, it doesn't matter if she didn't deserve it.

tb doesn't care that otto was going to usurp rhaenyra anyway. they don't care what viserys may or may not have said with his final breaths. they don't care that alicent was doing everything in her power in 1x09 to save rhaenyra's life when aegon took the throne. all they care about is that alicent seemingly led the usurpation, and she was always going to face consequences for that, even if people like otto and viserys were actually to blame.

tg doesn't care that alicent ruled for years in viserys' stead. they don't care about her safety, her privacy, her presence - hell, they don't even care about her indiscretions. all they care about is that she's a woman, and therefore inferior to them. she was always going to be belittled, she was always going to be 'humbled', even if she didn't require it.

the whole point of the story is that she (and rhaenyra) will always be treated this way. no matter what they do, it'll never be enough because they're women. i love alicent to death and ofc it sucks as a fan to see her beaten down at every turn, but it isn't bad writing or storytelling. the "humiliation" makes sense and was always going to happen.

to me, the only "bad" parts about alicent's arc were 1) overall pacing issues and 2) helaena walking in on her and cole after b&c, because it truly adds nothing in the wider context of the season.

people wanted s1 adult alicent back so bad even when we know it's not who she is at all? all of that vitriol she expresses comes from a place of deep hurt and it's completely artificial. i'd much rather see the regression to her rawest self than have another season of her putting on an act (in a show that's only four seasons), but that's just me. plus, she provides the humanity to contrast most of the other powerful members of tg who sorely lack it.

[truessences]

Was on Reddit in the Stranger Things subreddit and someone asked who the most intelligent member of the party is. Here was my answer.

I think Mike is the smartest of the kids, Dustin has an overall knowledge base of nerdy stuff but I feel like Mike, also has that but tends to think quick on his feet, is creative, brave, observant(sometimes) and strategic. A lot of big plans have happened because of him spearheading them.

S1- everything he did for El and being able to explain to everyone about the upside down after learning about parallel worlds from his teacher

S2- causing a diversion for El and Hopper to get in and close the gate. True sight and that Will was a spy.

S3- being the only one really who was trying to keep El from over doing it and also immediately coming to El’s aid in the sauna sequence. Plus that was also his plan.

S4- figuring out the pen and thinking to go see Suzie.

I also might be biased as he’s my fave and I think people are way too hard on him but I think my examples help lol.

I’ve always felt like they all had their specialties anyway or what I think they’d be good in and a lot of it overlaps obviously.

AND THEN, I talked about how he is also extremely self-sacrificing and some extra stuff because as always, I feel like people are way too hard on him.

Exactly! He’s also so self sacrificing! People say he hasn’t been the same since S1 and I agree in a sense but not about his character but that’s really on the writers.

S1- telling Brenner that he’d have to kill him (us) to get El. Willing to throw himself off the cliff for Dustin, trying to stand up to the bullies for Will.

S2- running to the soldiers to tell them it’s a trap when he could have easily died. The plan to go into the tunnels which led to him getting attacked lol.

S3- trying to fight Mind Flayed possessed Billy TWICE. Because Billy on his own is scary but a possessed one?? Come on now lol. People really say they hate S3 Mike and I will never understand why lol. My boy was so brave. The other stuff is because of Hopper and I’ll forever die on that hill.

S4- he didn’t get as much to do in terms of forward action but immediately running out to El in the desert when there’s no way he could have known that it was safe for him to do so.

He very much clearly is the leader and the heart of the group. I feel like people say otherwise just because they don’t like him and outside of “oh he’s just a boring character” I don’t personally think he’s done anything to be unlikable, I feel like there are reasons for a lot of his moody (outside of teenager) behavior. He doesn’t get any slack from the fandom and at times his own friends (Max and Will at times and even Lucas). He’s the only one who didn’t get the chance to really talk about his feelings UNTIL S4.

And then someone responded that he was being a jackass in S3, which is why a lot of fans seemed to dislike him and I'm like no, sorry that doesn't make sense to me. Hopper is literally an adult and threatened Mike at least 3 times in their conversation. Like you don't *have* to like anyone but I feel like the reasons that are given for Mike specifically don't make sense to me. As I said in the post, everyone has their moments of being assholes but Mike is the ONLY one who doesn't get a pass. I feel like Lucas was treated pretty badly in S1 but that's gone down thank goodness but Mike still gets shit and to me it's unfounded.

Like don't piss me off lol

[avelera]

OFMD really said, "Pursue the things you love, not the things you fear."

I'm still turning this idea over in my head like a microwave but I'm thinking about Stede's line to (the picture of) Ed, "I'm afraid that your life is better without me."

From @blackbbonnet's gifset here.

Whew, what a doozy of a line!

And what a curious line!

Because the reason Stede left Ed at the end of Season 1 was in the hopes that it would improve Ed's life if he took off.

Despite the fact that Ed chose to be with Stede. Despite the fact Ed was content with folding socks if he was by Stede's side. Despite kissing him and declaring, by somewhat obliquely, that a life anywhere was fine as long as Stede was there, Stede just couldn't hear it over the sound of the Badmintons and his own trauma in his ears telling him he destroyed beautiful things, like his family, and Ed.

Ok, so what does this have to do with my thesis above?

Stede failed, he messed up, because he saw his worst fear of Ed being happy without him and decided that the painful thing was the right thing. That the voices in his head telling him he was worthless were correct. That it was better to listen to those voices, and to make his greatest fear a reality.

I've argued that the narrative morality of OFMD, the actions that give you plot armor and allow you to save the day, are when characters pursue what they love.

This is in contrast to many other adult-aimed works of fiction that say we should do things out of duty. We should do things that are painful but necessary. OFMD said, "Fuck that noise."

Because Stede left Ed out of a sense of duty. And he fucked over every single person in his life by doing so, including Mary and his kids, though he was able to fix that eventually specifically by resolving to return to his own happiness so that they could have theirs.

But then we've got this quote above! This quote saying that Stede is afraid Ed's life is better. Fascinating! Absolutely fascinating! Because that means the thing Stede was ready to self-sacrifice for at the end of the Season 1 was the thing he feared most: a life for Ed that was better without Stede in it.

I suppose there's no better definition of duty, huh? Then the resolve to do something that will be personally painful to us for some higher goal. And again, OFMD said fuck that noise, pursue your happiness, and do so proudly.

But there's an extention to this too, the more I thought about it. The show literally even said that even for matters of survival, the better motivation is joy not fear or duty.

Think of the storm in S1 ep. 4. While trying to think of a way for everyone to survive because it's his duty as a captain, Ed is distracted, disinterested. Izzy's frustration with him mounts. The tension rises. His heart is really not in it, we know Ed's actively suicidal...

And the plan Ed comes up with fails.

It was born out of duty as a captain and it failed because he messed up the dates.

But what plan succeeds? The plan born out of joy. The Ed that works with Stede to become a lighthouse is acting out of an active, joyful desire to live, he chooses life out of the joy of being with Stede, of partnering with Stede.

The you flash forward to the scene where Ed is drowning in his Purgatory fever dream and the simple motions of struggling to stay alive are not enough. The duty of staying alive is not enough. The thing that actually works is when the choice he makes to live is joyful, it's a positive choice to go towards the light and be with Stede. Stede, embodied as a beautiful gold fish of a merman.

And just to be clear, I don't at all think that OFMD is saying, "If you don't have a joyful reason to move forward, just give up." Not at all.

What I think it's saying is, pursuing your happiness will succeed. Even when it's scary. Even when it means confronting fears. Even when it's hard. Duty alone isn't enough to live on. It's not enough to motivate us when things are hard. It has diminishing returns. Pick and pursue what gives you joy, choose a shining target to move towards, and you'll not only be true to yourself, but good things will come out of it. Just like Ed finding Stede, and Stede finding Ed, because they pursued what made them happiest in life.

[kandyzee]

What do you think fionas childhood was like 💓

I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY thanks for asking :pp.

I used to be a reallly big fiona fan, so I've thought about this a lot.

I imagine fionas upbringing was similar to Debbie's in alot of ways. They both find themselves in problematic relationships, forced to look after their siblings.

Fiona is mentioned to have a LONG sexual history as early as s1, where she's only 21. Given the lack of attention and validation she was getting, I think fiona has been having sex since she was a child. She probably fell into the "mature for her age" group. Her parents were neglecting her, possibly physically abusing her (we've seen Frank hit his kids in the show), and she wasn't able to get academic validation because she had to drop out. It wouldn't surprise me that this led her into having older bfs and stuff like that.

This makes even more sense to me given how she reacts to her siblins minor /adult relationships. Fiona didn't have anyone to tell her that her relationships were wrong, so when she saw her siblings going through the same thing, she saw nothing wrong with it. Like when she says that ned and Ian is "just sex"

We also see that she , like Debbie and a lot of the other female characters, is scared of abandonment. She tells Jimmy Steve that everybody leaves and keeps going back to Jimmy even though she knows he's bad for her because she's desperate for someone to stay. She rushes into relationships, remember when she married someone after like a week of daiting ?? Fiona has a hard time accepting love even though she craves it. She cheats and ruins one of her most stable relationships. I think that all comes from the way she was treated in her romantic relationships as a child. Of course, a lot of her abandonment fear comes from Monica, too.

Okay moving away from guys.

We know fiona ran track in school and that she was really fucking good at it. This was probably one of the most stable things in her life, an activity away from her siblings and the stress of home. Running is a good way to feel in control. I think fiona developed problems around running ? I'm not sure what exactly you would call it. Fiona would push herself too hard on the track so that she was responsible for the aches she felt instead of them being stressed. I can also imagine having an ED around this time. Her siblings are young, so they're struggling even more with money than normal. She starts to skip meals, and eventually, she finds control in what she eats when she's forced away from track.

I imagine fiona to be relatively popular in school, mainly with guys, but she struggles to keep real outside of school friendships. This changes when she meets Kev and V. I think they probably met after she dropped out of school. V is like 23, I think, in the first season and Kevin 25 ish ? I'm not really that sure, but we know fiona didn't go to school with them. Kevin and V helped fiona a lot, and she definitely needed them. They started to help her with the kids, and for once, she had people on her side. Things get better for her when she meets them.

Baby fiona (5-12) was definitely the in ur face demanding respect, kinda kid. She was sassy and always trying to seem as strong as possible. She will haggle prices for anything and isn't afraid to scam and cheat to get what she needs for her family. But I also imagine her being good at acting sweet. She's a great sweet talker. This is a prominent trait Ian has, and I think he got it from his big sister.

Teens, she's all about drama. Boy drama petty teen girl drama, watching reality TV when she can and stealing gossip magazines. I think she latches onto the typical teen girl image hard. She definitely has a short phase of always getting dress coded. I don't think this lasts that look tho.

Same as in the show, she's always got a new job, sometimes working 2 or 3. She's stressed ofc but learns a lot. She has little hacks and tricks for almost any job. She's resistant in the way she will do anything. Nothing is too dirty or hard for her.

Her relationship with Frank is complex. Fionas Frank's favourite, but she's also the oldest and likely the one he takes his anger out on most. When ur someone's favourite, it hurts them even more when they feel you messed up. I don't think Frank was consistent with his abuse, but it was definitely there. Frank was a 'good' dad sometimes. Fiona gets to know Frank when his alcoholism and drug use wasn't at its peak (He gradually gets worse with age) So fiona got more good dad moments but also felt the disappointment harder as she watched him get worse.

Fiona tells lip (pretty sure it's him) that he's always been Monica's favourite in s1, and I think she has always thought that. Later on in the show, u obviously see Ian and debbie are monicas favourites, tho. I don't see Monica and fiona ever being particularly close. Fiona was hit hard when Monica leaves for the first time, Frank's a mess, and now she has the unfortunate job of explaining that she's gone to her siblings. Unlike her younger siblings, who are probably too young to fully understand what's going on, fiona feels the abandonment full force.

Fiona is 4 / 5 yrs older than lip, right? (Their ages confuse me so bad) so she I'm guessing she was always in a different school than him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if he's in elementary school, she's in high school. Fiona has to miss school to run all over the place and collect her siblings from different places. She might have to be the one to unroll her siblings in school, too, a couple times.

Finally just some random things

She has a purple flip phone at one point that she's super protective of

She loves family movie nights and would try to do as many as possible.

She cried when Debbie was born cause she was so excited to have a sister.

Similarly she cried when Ian was born cause he was a boy and she wanted a sister.

She really wanted a pet when she was young

She has 100s of diary's from yrs and yrs of writing in them (we see Carl read one)

Would always struggle with her hair cause it's curly and v helps her learn how to style it even tho she hardly does

She's the kind of person who finds comfort in sitting on the floor, in the bathroom, bath tub

Had a pink hating phase

Had a collection of different fake IDs by the time she was 16

Definitely got in at least 1 fight in school cause of boy drama

Hated cooking

ANYWAY I love fiona

[shmistarkiller]

So since it's been a few weeks since I first watched The Acolyte, I feel like I've managed to gather my thoughts about what I think some bits from s1 were hinting at wrt Qimir's backstory. This is just what I think, I really never expect anyone to agree with anything I say lol.

Obviously we know Vernestra was his master, and that she somehow ended up betraying him, using her saber-whip to carve that gnarly scar up his back.

I think where I probably differ from most if not all other viewers is, I'm of the opinion Qimir was actually fairly young when it happened. Like, younger than a teenager even.

The whole thing with him building the cortosis helmet based on the sensory deprivation ones younglings use. I guess that might not necessarily mean anything, but it would make sense to me that he'd more likely be inspired by it if he'd been abandoned closer to the age when they would be using it. He uses cortosis specifically to keep other force users out of his head, his former master by far who he most wants to keep from reading his thoughts. The fact that he reacts like a little kid being caught by their parent when Vernestra senses him again on Brendok could be a trauma response, him reverting to the last time she was in his mind. He keeps the magic helmet of protection on for the rest of the time until they leave Brendok and he's safely far away from the cause of his fear.

Osha saying she never heard of him? What if it's because Vernestra dispatched of her little youngling padawan not long after the beginning of his training? The loss of a youngling who hadn't been with the Order for very long would be a lot easier to cover up than one of the older padawans. Create some story of a tragic accident to be documented in the official records, Jedi are supposed to be all too-bad-so-sad-but-no-attachments anyway, so it goes completely unquestioned.

So then, what the hell did Vernestra see a small child do that led her to think leaving him for dead at her own hands was a reasonable reaction? She gets echoes from the force of the combat & slaughter that happened on Khofar and it's very clear she senses something familiar. It could just be that she's sensing the presence of her long lost padawan by itself, but it would be real gnarly if this is something she's seen quite literally before. I'm not saying fetus!Qimir managed to kill a bunch of people in the same way that adult!Mr. Stranger did .. but I'm not *not* saying that either.

I think it builds a stronger case for the kinship he feels toward Osha (and maybe initially with Mae as well). The twins were 8 years old when their personal life tragedy struck, so I can see him connecting more strongly with Mae's story if he too had been of a similar age when his own personal life tragedy occurred. Extra reason why he'd feel so much more in common with Osha, how much he recognizes himself in her.

Idk how deep I wanna dip my toes in on the Plagueis stuff, but if I can get back on my Ben Solo bullshit for a second, it wouldn't surprise me if old Muun-man Plagueis was whispering in little boy Qimir's ear. And Vernestra, rather than actually try to save an innocent child, would instead cut her losses, viewing him as a liability/lost cause already practically fallen to the dark side. We know The Acolyte doesn't shy away from citing the inspiration it took from TLJ, so I can easily see "You failed him by thinking his choice was made. It wasn't." applying here as well.

(And maybe the irony there is that Luke having attachment to his nephew is what kept him from attempting to murder Ben until he was at least a grownass adult. Whereas Vernestra who lives in the height of the Jedi Order's power would definitely be less inclined to preserve the life of a literal child if she thought they could prove to be an eventual threat to the status quo she prefers. Either way, a foregone conclusion. You treat a child like they're a monster, guess what they grow up to be.)

EDIT (09/07/24): Can't believe I forgot this one. The way Qimir is so callous about killing Jecki. Sol says she was a child, and his response just comes off very "yeah, so what, so was I (when I was left for dead)". Qimir seems convinced Jedi masters leading their padawans to their potential/inevitable death is definitely just A Thing™ that happens.

Some extra quibbling with ideas I just rather disagree with ..

I've seen others theorize that Qimir could actually be older than he looks and that it's Plagueis feeding him whatever that ability is to stay young/immortal, but I personally can't really think of any actual reason why that would be the case. His line about having been a Jedi a long time ago is pretty vague, so while it could apply, I'm not particularly swayed by it being proof of this theory.

I guess the other thing is people think he and Sol grew up together and were padawans at the same time? Which ties back into the idea of him being older than he looks, but again, there's nothing particularly convincing me of that idea either. When Qimir shows up masked and goes, "You don't remember me?" And Sol replies, "I do sense something familiar." To me that came off as taunting that none of them caught on when he was pretending to be the apothecary. (If anything, I initially for whatever reason thought the "You?" "Surprise!" exchange between Yord & Qimir was hinting to the idea that they'd known each other, until I remembered the aforementioned bit about Qimir's messy girl apothecary charade.)

Vernestra mentioning that she remembered Sol as a shy little padawan, and having been Qimir's master seems to be another reason for the prior two theories. But to me that ignores the possibility that Vernestra herself could also have been a child when she first met Sol. It's less clear to me since she's a humanoid non-human SW species, for all we know she could be the one who's way older than she looks because of that. And if she was already an adult and knew both Sol & Qimir as children, that still doesn't mean that was at the same time.

Okay. I think that's everything. (And if it's not I'll quietly come back and slip in whatever relevant edits I'll want to add in.)

[neonscandal]

This week is Sk8 3rd anniversary.... So for celebrating, can I ask a few things :

-Who are your fav character from this series? Why?

-What are your fav moments from this series? -What are your opinions on this fandom's famous ships : Reki/ Langa, Cherry/ Joe, Adam/ Tadashi?

Season 2 and an OVA are coming (eventually)! Which is more than we can say for other series' so I'm going to remain delusionally hopeful. I think it'd be nice if, instead of announcing long awaited continuations, new seasons dropped like Beyonce albums. Without warning and like an unexpected blessing. Just like this ask so thank you for reaching out!

FAVORITE CHARACTER

Sk8 has a wonderful band of idiots who I adore but Cherry is, by far, my favorite. Most specifically through the interactions he has with Joe because they are just so catty and mean to one another but you just know it belies an affection from their entrenched history together whether you consider them a ship them or not.

I love that Cherry had this rebellious era and continues to do so as a respectable adult while juggling such a disciplined craft and career. Like, that dichotomy is just 😘👌🏾. Goals, honestly. He maintains this split by ensuring that his S persona and his everyday persona remain mutually exclusive similar to how Adam conducts himself. Which, now that I'm thinking about it, might be kind of sad but he is, somewhat, of a man of contrasts.

Like, the way his talents splinter is so interesting. He is a founding member of S wherein he remains a threat, an established and respected calligrapher... plus, I feel like he customized Carla himself. What a nerd! Plus, Cherry is so gender. ✨

THOUGHTS ON SHIPS

Reki & Langa - idiot x idiot, I love it? But also, how silly to show someone something you love so intensely only for that love to envelope them so completely. Both in how they receive your hobby but also in how they just become a part of your life. Plus, Langa sees Reki's strengths that he takes for granted and its so necessary because they both think the sun shines out of each others' ass. Also, I see them as a reincarnation of AshEiji from Banana Fish.

Cherry & Joe - Yes. Was that not evident from above? Yes. They fight like an old (and sassy) married couple and then will have a moment of saccharine sweetness that's just... too much. There's also a hilarious sense of patience Joe must have to adapt to Cherry vs. Kaoru and its more evident because there's who the pair are when they are around others, regardless of who the others are, and then who they are when they're alone. Like, why put on the act, guys? Just kiss already.

Adam & Tadashi - As long as it's consensual, I guess, but I'm sure Tadashi could do better.

Oka & Shadow - Okay, but go with me here. Please thank the chokehold umikochannart had on keeping this ship sailing before they wiped their IG of all evidence.

Adding a few other artists guaranteed to give you the brainrot because I fell down a rabbit hole while looking for umikochann and fan artists deserve so much appreciation for covering the spread when we are awaiting new content so go follow them and join their patreons, buy them a kofi and bark on all their posts because we are not deserving of their labor: angrymorilas, bunbun.ji, @pochiikou and @ratcarney IG.

These artists are my gift to you. As a gift, that means that we should love and appreciate the people whose talents enable us to experience the characters we love even more and be thankful for, however long the stretch, the time that our favorite characters and ships were their muses. And to subsequently not be a prick when their muse changes.

⚠️ Spoiler warning for S1 of SK8 the Infinity anime.

FAVORITE MOMENTS

"Push me, Reki." - needs no explanation.

Reki defending Miya's honor - When you see Miya's backstory, his isolation is really sad and makes him vulnerable to Adam's predation but Reki punched well above his weight to defend Miya and it effectively brought the kid into the fold and I loved that. And that's on the power of friendship. ✨ Reki really subjugated everyone in that friend group and is not appreciated enough for it.

When everyone cockblocked Joe - Not every show needs a beach episode. This one does.

Sia La Luce after hours - the fact that Kaoru, after being bride carried by Joe, broke out of the hospital just to go running back to Joe is just so... beautifully chaotic and unexpected. Add a zest of Jonah Scott murmuring "We're not alone, right, Kaoru?" and I am undone.

When the might of Reki's rain wheels kicked in - Overcame insecurity by utilizing the gift he'd had all along? AGH. So perfect, so proud.

When Reki's laughter melts into that of young Adam's - only because that was really sweet

Not in the show but: sharing this series with my niece and nephew and them loving it just as much as I do. They're pretty young so the Venn Diagram of "Shows I Love" vs "Shows I Can Share With Them As A Discerning Adult" has a pretty narrow overlap. So imagine my surprise when my nephew randomly makes a SK8 joke or observation or when my niece drew fan art of Carla? We also sing and dance and laugh during the intro and outtro so I hope they remember the series affectionately when they're older.

[thestupidhelmet]

What are your least favorite seasons for each of the main characters? Season 8 doesn't count for obvious reasons.

Hi! 😀

I'm going to start with favorite then least favorite (because I totally misread your ask 🙈).

Favorite

Red: Season 1.

Red's still gruff but more complex. He demonstrates his love and compassion for Eric directly in "That Wrestling Show" and "Grandma's Dead" without being emotionally constipated about it (that's a term I use for Hyde, too 😂). Same with Hyde in "That Disco Episode" and "Career Day". But he still does so in-character. After S1, the writers replied down on him being a hardass. Perhaps some humor was gained, but more was lost imo

Kitty: Season 2

Kitty shows her strengths and vulnerabilities this season. She is the sole breadwinner while Red's out of work and supports him through his emotional crisis about his joblessness. She becomes depressed at Eric's growing up (i.e. when Eric and Donna begin their sexual relationship).

Eric: Season 2

This choice was a little tough for me because I love how good a friend he is to Hyde in season 1 and how strong he is in season 5. But in season 2, he must learn to balance his ego, his insecurity, and his wants vs. respecting Donna and their relationship. Unfortunately, he doesn't learn the lesson fully enough.

Donna: Season 3

Donna grows in independence this season while her relationship with Eric remains an important part of her life. Eric's insecurity and resultant controlling actions ultimately push her away. I stead if pushing her anger (and wants and self) aside to protect Eric's ego, she finally puts herself first in a non-selfish way --

Except for her utter disrespect of Eric in "Backstage Pass" (which is the accumulation of her understandable resentment of him for trying to control her and hold her back; story-wise, it makes total sense and is completely set up for by the writing all season).

Jackie: Season 5

Jackie grows and changes significantly in this season. From bossy to communicative. From living in a superficial fantasy to appreciating the depths of reality. Hyde encourages her independence and ability to take care of herself financially as an adult -- and thus encouragement happens before she's forced by her parents to be financially responsible for the family's estate as a minor (her parents left her without any kind of adult guardian, family member, godparent, nothing).

She discovers her true strengths but overcorrects. She has to (re)learn how to let people support her.

Hyde: Season 2

Hyde's protectiveness of and support for Jackie in this season is e v e r y t h i n g . He starts helping her not because he likes (he doesn't and finds her personality abrasive) but because she's heartbroken and vulnerable and he believes helping her is the right thing to do.

Kelso, of Hyde's best friend, is not only responsible for Jackie's emotional state but also punishes her after she refuses to accept him back as her boyfriend. Hyde not only tries to get Kelso caught by Jackie, he also teaches her a method of protecting herself from bullying -- making himself more vulnerable to her by doing so (i.e. sacrificing some of his own mental-emotional safety for Jackie's).

Fez: Season 1

Fez isn't a joke but a complex character who's emotionally insightful. He's someone who's learning how to fit in with his American friends and sometimes overshoots. He doesn't yet suffer from Nice Guy syndrome and genuinely treats Jackie with kindness. He has the awareness and respect not to try to steal Jackie's affections for himself, despite believing he could.

He calls Kelso out on his bad behavior. His bond with Hyde is well-written, too.

Kelso: Season 6

Kelso demonstrates the most growth and change in this episode -- where Brooke is concerned. He leaves Jackie and Hyde alone now that he's interested in someone else (a selfish, self-interested release). He's still selfish with Eric and Donna, taking their toys without permission and destroying them. He tries to sabotage Eric's waiter job at the Holiday Hotel out of a sense of entitlement.

He doesn't reciprocate any of the friendship and support he's given except at the very beginning, trying to undo the damage between Jackie and Hyde he's partially responsible for.

All of that being said, he works hard at maturing for Brooke to prove himself a worthy romantic partner and father. He chooses a stable, albeit potentially dangerous, career. He respects Brooke's boundaries (although he does try to push them a little), and he ultimately lets Brooke and his child go because he believes that's what's better for them: his most unselfish act in the show.

Least Favorite

Red, Kitty, Hyde, Fez: Season 7

These four are almost unrecognizable from their canon selves in too many episodes. Fez is the worst written of the four. He's reduced to a punchline and punchline giver -- and his disrespect for women a d female friends is firmly cemented. (This transformation began at the end of season 4.)

Kitty is devolved from her intelligent, compassion character to a dumbed-down, alcoholic whose fear at Eric growing up and leaving home is transmuted into hostility and resentment toward Donna (but this transformation began in season 5).

Red is changed from someone deeply in love with his wife and has eyes only for her; has no interest in other women sexually, to the point of feeling guilty and scared when a teenage girl hits on him despite all his efforts to turn her away; to someone who acts like a put-upon husband in a terrible marriage, finds joy (and possible lust) in posing with two much younger car models.

Hyde goes from someone clearly deeply committed to Jackie in seasons 5 and 6 to someone who is now commitment-phobic, disrespects Jackie utterly in "Winter" and after she graduates high school. Breaks promises to Jackie. Shrugs instead communicating with her properly. This Hyde is incompatible with seasons 5-6 Hyde except in a select few episodes where he's written in-character (e.g. "On With the Show").

Jackie: Season 4

Jackie vacillates between being supportive of Kelso's potential success and utterly jealous and resentful of it (and him). She chooses her love for Kelso over money, tolerates his lazy approach to finding a job, gets a humiliating job herself -- and while her envy at his modeling gig is understandable under all the circumstances, her treatment of him is unacceptable.

Kelso: Season 5

First, I have to talk about his behavior in season 4, which leads to his behavior in season 5. Kelso's misogyny hits an all-time high in the second half of season 4, as does his hypocrisy and sense of entitlement. He makes a false equivalency between Jackie's one kiss with Todd, which she is tricked into and tells Kelso about almost immediately, to his months of sleeping with at least two other girls with no intention of ever telling Jackie about it.

He also, hypocritically, tries to see Donna's breasts while he and Jackie are in a relationship.

He becomes paranoid and possessive, stalking Jackie at work. He blames his cheating on Jackie's supposed mistreatment of him. But the specific incident he cites is never shown on-screen nor spoken about in season 1 when he first cheats on Jackie with Pam Macy. He claims men cheat "out of joy" while women cheat "out of hate" and that "girls don't even enjoy sex".

This attitude and behavior carries over to season 5. Where in season 4, Kelso is decent to Jackie during the first half, he's awful to Jackie (and Hyde) throughout the whole of season 5. While he's allowed to sleep with whoever he wants, Jackie's "allowed" only to pine for him in perpetuity and get occasional sex from Kelso as a consolation.

Upon learning Jackie isn't going to abide by Kelso's controlling, narcissistic, self-entitled rules for her life and, instead, found joy with someone else -- worse, one of Kelso's friends, he dies all he can to destroy her happiness. Not because he's in love with her but because of his wounded pride.

Kelso feels humiliated that Jackie is in a happy, fulfilling relationship with Hyde. This fact translates into Kelso's mind into other people believing he's not the hottest, most sexually skilled man in Point Place. Therefore, he must "steal" Jackie back to prove he -- not Hyde -- is the hottest, most sexually skilled man in Point Place.

The above, coupled with Kelso's possessiveness of Jackie, feelings of entitlement toward her, and misogyny, renders season 5's Kelso a completely unlikeable and unsympathetic character. He should've been kicked out of Eric's basement long before season 5, but Kelso's behavior this season -- in the real world with the friends he has -- would have clinched his ousting from the group.

Donna: Season 4

While I understand Donna's character development in this season, and believe much of it is set up well by previous seasons, this is my least favorite season for her. She is in an incredible amount of pain. It makes her self-destructive but also outwardly hostile. She jumps into another committed (for her) relationship rather than talking the time to heal herself.

Donna disregards Eric's own grief to distract herself from her own ("The Relapse"), with no regard -- or care -- that this might deepen Eric's grief. Only her feelings matter to her in this episode, and it's written as if the audience is supposed to agree with her.

Dating Casey is a way to narcotize her grief. But she bullies Eric with Casey. She snaps at Hyde and rejects his friendship when he tries to protect her. She agrees with Casey's rapey advice to Fez about Rhonda.

Yet, as I wrote above, much of her behavior is grounded in the show's previous seasons. As much as I dislike how she acts, I believe most of it is in character because of the specific stressors she's under. It's a shame T7S's writers didn't give her a chance to self-reflect on her season 4 choices and gain emotional clarity from them (beyond, "I was so stupid!")

[tonydaddingham]

I mean Neil said once that the sequel involved Jesus arriving in America on a plane with secret service agents, and the S2 opening sequence shows a plane, so I'm... fairly confident that he's an adult? Jesus died when he was like 33 right

afternoon anon!!!✨ see i recall this (ask on neil's page?) and remember the response but cannot for the life of me find it anywhere (and im pretty good at Finding Stuff), do you - or anyone else reading for that matter - have a link to this? just so i can save it for future reference.

now, i hope you don't mind if i do this, but i would like to use this opportunity to parse out a more coherent rationale on the second coming, if that's okay? yeah? cool.

(previous incarnation of this theory).

thing is that the premise of the baby swap in s1 is based on the omen, right? takes at least a huge chunk of inspiration from that as the origin of how the antichrist came into the story. but it goes wrong, obviously, and there's a third baby thrown in the mix. makes a cursory wave to the omen, but isn't a carbon copy of it.

now i can't help but feel that narratively it would make sense to bookend this and have the second coming be a bit bollocksed up too. seems to be a theme in GO. and actually, when i thought about it (with extreme bias, granted, because im chomping at the bit on this theory), the second coming was potentially already fucked up anyway.

now, disclaimer time -

i completely get that people will look to the bible in reference to parsing out the second coming (or indeed any other theory). obviously i do too, for references to certain verses etc. in order to draw the relevant parallels. but there are multiple instances in GO where it is based on the bible or other texts, but doesn't follow it exactly; how GO portrayed the book of job, for example. it takes these texts, and distorts or reimagines them slightly or completely.

the way i see it, we are reading/watching GO as if this is in fact the true telling of those texts, as if (and not trying to be diminutive here) the bible is an inaccurate telling of GO, not the other way around - because, of course, we're seeing GO from the angel and demon that were 'actually there', so to speak.

im not saying that this - or any - of my theories are indisputably correct, far from it. but to me, with the information i have from the narrative as first source, and then looking at the referenced texts that inspired it, what i come up with, and write, is what makes sense to me. and it might make sense because it would be poetically apt, is in-keeping with how i interpret the characters, and/or is just plain funny or ironic (GO is after all, a comedy).

so whilst i fully anticipate people to duly correct me on how it all goes down in the bible (as they should, i love being educated!!!), please know that im not trying to deliberately misinterpret anything, but more trying to think outside the box, from the viewpoint of the GO story itself, and what direction would make the most sense in which it will reimagine these texts.

- exit disclaimer.

anyway! theory time!

so we have the imagery from the s2 sequence of the "thy kingdom come" plane, and this is obviously a reference to the resurrection as you've said, anon: that jesus arrives by plane. i truly love this imagery because if we take matthew 24:36 (KJV): "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.", the concept that in the great plan the date and time might finally be revealed in the form of a flight number, airport, and ETA is frankly hilarious to me. furthermore, "cometh with clouds" (revelation, 1:7 KJV) being reimagined as a literal plane landing again sets up the comedic backdrop so well.

now wherever the plane lands, whether from the US or to the US (again, don't have the original neil answer to refer to, but going based on your ask, anon, it's the latter), it regardless involves americans. this is where i feel it would be a perfect narrative symmetry opportunity to refer back to s1/the book, and reintroduce the dowlings.

and you might be wondering, "well no because GO set up the dowlings to be involved only insomuch that they were meant to be custodians of the antichrist - why would they also be involved in the second coming?" well, i wondered this too. the only conclusion i can come to, frankly, is GO!god having a very warped, twisted and ineffable sense of humour. they saw what satan had planned for the dowlings in inadvertently raising the antichrist, possibly did a bit of shifting around in the mystical threads, and decided that actually - just to throw in the wildcard of chaos - they should instead be the bearers of the second coming. this degree of mind-boggling ineffability, to me, would be comedically on-brand.

regardless; whilst just a theory, the whole thing makes sense to me - that in any case, the dowlings are going to make a reappearance. and with them, or on his own (if we follow the biblical telling that jesus was resurrected as he was from the crucifixion, at age 33yo, and therefore would suggest a timeskip from s2, but this isn't necessarily guaranteed - ie: might not be how GO chooses to portray it!), comes warlock. now we know that warlock was meant to be the antichrist, before crowley and the nuns managed to bugger it all up.

but heaven wouldn't necessarily know that its the dowlings arriving, right? presumably they'd just all gather on the tarmac awaiting the arrival, and lmao SIKE, it's bloody warlock. heaven hasn't met warlock, and therefore still think he's in fact jesus resurrected... but aziraphale has met him. he helped bloody raise him. and he knows now that he is essentially a normal kid/adult (albeit a very stuck-up one) and definitely not the second coming.

well then, if jesus was meant to be on that plane, according to the great plan, a plane being used by the dowlings... then why isn't it warlock? well, because the dowlings' actual baby isn't warlock. lets go back to the baby swap in the book/s1:

*apols, editing to correct this somewhat because it isn't quite right and lateral thinking is not my strong suit*

ANTICHRIST was meant to go to: the DOWLINGS. instead, went to: the YOUNGS. this is Adam.

YOUNG BABY was meant to go to: stay with the YOUNGS, but got mixed up. instead, went to: the DOWLINGS. this is Warlock.

DOWLING BABY was meant to go to: adoption/something nefarious instead, and indeed did. this is... Greasy Johnson.

and i love this for all sorts of reasons. now im lifting this next bit, essentially, from another ask of mine, but to keep things all in one place:

"greasy is posed as the antithesis of adam/antichrist, has a gang surrounding him that you could infer are loyal disciples, and is a mirror to adam in that adam on the whole seems to be a well-adjusted and morally-upstanding young boy.

i further think the fact that adam is the antichrist put against greasy being the second coming is a well positioned reflection on the nature vs nurture argument. ultimately adam grew up in a largely loving and supportive environment, and as the literal son of satan, you'd expect his nature, the circumstances of his birth, to rule out every other influence.

ultimately it does for a short time, but adams narrative iirc is that it is reflective of his desire to save the world... he wanted to get rid of things that were Wrong, and naively (he is still an 11-year old boy after all) thought that destroying the world and restarting it would do just that. his friends however reinforce in him that destruction and reparation are not the same thing, and so his upbringing, the nurture, wins.

greasy? we don't know a lot about him, only that he is a bully and represents the opposite of adam and the them... [and there exists] the whole [sic] analogy that greasy and the johnsonites vs adam and the them are meant to represent the hell vs heaven war..."

and then we have this small, relatively innocuous detail from the book:

as i said, possibly something of nothing. but the deliberate wording of 'breeding the fish', which is left out of s1, is - i like to think - a bit of a clue.

and before anyone comes for me on this, i am aware that this is based practically on fuck all of jack shit; im painfully aware of that. im aware that it deliberately misinterprets certain passages (not going to do the soapbox speech again, promise), but i just like to have fun. i honestly do not care if this is wrong; whatever happens in s3 should and will be better than anything i can come up with. yes, it's fun to get a prediction or speculation correct, of course it is, but it's not the endgame here. i get that others will have conflicting schools of thought, see things differently, or just plain think it's crap - that's okay! but, if that's the case, just move on from this post with a shake of your head. im not here to do anything other than have a good time, lads (gn)✨💓

edit 21/08: additional reading because now i feel vindicated: here from amuseoffyre, and my tags on this post too.