#osdd2

[howlsofbloodhounds]

i am not very much in the fandom so i was wondering what the consensus was on this. how do you (and just everyone in general who sees this) feel about killer's 'multiple personalities' i really love killer and i think he's great however i feel like that part of his character is a bit of a bad stereotype of DID (the evil alter, good alter trope). let me say this: i dont think killer's creator did it with malicious intent. im just confused on that part of his character because it's kind of vague. could you possibly explain your thoughts on it a bit more?

Well, im not a professional or expert on anything, but I’ll try to give it a go. Anyone can feel free to correct me if im misinformed and misspoke, or if yall simply disagree.

In terms of in universe, the general consensus, as I see it anyway, is that Killer is not human. Not even exactly like his soul isn’t human or monster, but that his body’s species is also not human.

Which means things like disorders and mental illnesses we have not only in real life, but as humans, does not apply to Killer.

There may be similarities, but they likely wouldn’t be one for one. Another consensus in universe is that, Killer is not said to be diagnosed with anything—he’s just living with and experiencing symptoms of similar possible disorders IRL.

He does not know what exactly is happening to him, he tries to make sense of and explain his experiences to the best of his knowledge and abilities in his own terms and languages.

And due to his own self perceptions, abuse, trauma and self hatred—he often dehumanizes and demonizes himself to others, especially himself when he’s in his other higher Stages.

It’s also long been established that Killer is canonically a character who struggles with a lot of suicidal ideation—not only has he attempted on his own, but when in Stage 1, he has been shown at least twice asking people to kill him (Swap and Color), which reads to me that he is seeking out assisted suicide. Not to mention how he has stated in Stage 1 that he has “accepted death a long time ago.”

Now, a bit more out of universe, I think Rahafwabas was not only really young at the time, but she did not know much English yet. If i recall correctly, she had other people translating her comics from Arabic to English for her.

Which means that not only could information had been lost in translation or mistranslated, it’s possible her language either didn’t have the means and words to explain what she was going for with Killer, or the English language didn’t or meant something else entirely.

In terms of actual disorders or similar irl, or if Killer had physically been a human with a brain, general consensus is that Killer would definitely be diagnosed with a dissociative disorder of some kind. In my opinion, I don’t think a professional would diagnose Killer with DID or P-DID.

I think he’d be diagnosed with either UDD (Unspecified Dissociative Disorder), or OSDD (identity disturbance due to prolonged intense coercive persuasion).

This can also be caused by captivity, thought reform, brainwashing, torture, programming, recruitment by cults/sects/terror organizations, being a POW, etc. This presentation of OSDD is also called OSDD-2.

These guys are not systems, however. There’s not actually much literature or research into this presentation of OSDD or how it effects a person from their experiences and perspectives—only brief descriptions.

Especially from those with OSDD-2 who were programmed, which is an inherently very complex topic even if OSDD-2 is not a complex dissociative disorder.

Now, an argument was made to me by a system recently for why Killer could be a system as well as have symptoms of OSDD-2, but I still believe Killer would not receive a diagnosis of DID, PDID, or OSDD1/1a/1b. Even if he does show and experience symptoms similar to them.

That being said, however, it cannot be denied that Killer already has canonically experienced the type of things listed in OSDD-2.

Intense prolonged coercion, coercion based dissociation, programming (literal reprogramming of his code in the game), torture, captivity, kidnapped/being held hostage, and labor trafficking.

He also shows signs of severe dissociative identity confusion and disturbance—not only does he seem to think he is not Sans anymore, just something that is wearing Sans’ face because Sans “would never kill Papyrus,” and that he said he “wants to be Sans again” in Stage 1 as if he isn’t already or still Sans, but rahafwabas has stated that his soul being like that is one of the reasons why his mind “split.”

It’s a war between two souls, Sans’ and the human Determination soul, but the Determination soul is stronger—even if Sans’ soul often ‘peeks’ out (via that white eyelight in Killer’s right eye socket, which is described as a sign of “the real Sans we know”) or forces itself/is triggered out.

And now he doesn’t know how he should behave, human or monster. He is basically programmed and likely conditioned to behave and think a certain way when in or triggered into a certain Stage—which means dissociation is always present on some level.

However, on the case of Killer being a system or experiencing himself as plural—as more than one in one body—even if not DID, PDID, or OSDD-1 I do think there’s a way to write and portray it without falling into an evil alter trope.

First would be to write other system or plural characters. Have a diverse range of different systems and plurals and don’t leave Killer as the only one.

Second is, understand Killer’s environment and situation.

(Putting a read more here because the rest can potentially be a little too much or potentially triggering.)

Understand it really is a form of extreme, organized abuse. That he is in a high control group.

That he is being trafficked by Nightmare. That he is being tortured, programmed, and conditioned. That he has to survive—and he and his potential headmates simply will not survive if they try to be good people.

Hell, they may even view themselves as only existing to do awful things and being incapable of anything else (or not knowing there is anything else, and that it’s something they could have or be)—kill and hurt when no one else can, kill and hurt on command, kill and hurt without guilt or remorse that would otherwise leave Killer unable to function and likely dead a long time ago.

(Abusers may even actively make the victim(s) believe and think that way, or they may heavily encourage it by either giving alters their names or forcibly renaming a singlet, giving them numbered names or simply calling them by their ‘role.’ Like..Killer, for example. Or even more degrading, insulting names they make their victims respond to and identify with.)

For them to live, to survive, others can’t—because being trafficked, kidnapped, in organized crime, in a high control group, means having to witness and do highly illegal and immoral things if they want to live or not be tortured themselves.

This is also where the manipulation stuff comes in. Abusers, handlers, traffickers—they want the victim to not speak out, they want them to not leave or think about leaving. They’ll do anything to ensure that.

From coercing or threatening a victim to do bad things or participate in bad things with the abusers, the abusers can then begin holding that over them.

Claiming the victim isn’t any better than them to ensure guilt and silence, saying they’ll be arrested or everyone would hate them for what they did to ensure fear of outsiders and dependency on the group, claiming that they know the victim must’ve liked it—that the victim is just like their abuser, or will be.

And that can cause feelings ranging from shame and feeling like they deserve what’s done to them and they don’t deserve help, to internalizing all of that and attempting to behave and think exactly how the abuser does. Either because they start genuinely believing they’re as bad if not worse, or because it’s a survival and/or coping mechanism.

Not to mention that those in these environments will likely eventually become desensitized to the violence they’re forced to perpetuate and/or witness, they could even try to force themselves to like it in an attempt to either make it easier or feel powerful and in control.

Other alters may be programmed or simply indoctrinated in cases of cults or types of belief systems and ideologies being implemented in abuse—they may genuinely believe that the ones hurting them are godlike, or that they can communicate with a higher power, or that a higher power will punish them if they try to leave. Especially if they’re children, or if they have no access to anything or anyone saying otherwise.

Some alters may believe this type of stuff is completely normal and okay, particularly when raised in it. It can be so severe that these types of alters could embrace the idea of their death at their abusers’ hands easily, without fear or struggle, because it’s normal to them.

This all can happen to a singlet in similar situations too. Singlets can start to genuinely believe they were born, created, or only exist to do certain things or for certain purposes—from a sex slave to a killer to a weapon, especially if they’re being trafficked.

It’s just a fact that many who experienced things that Killer did/does and managed to not only survive, but escape, likely did it in bloody and/or underhanded ways.

There was no good or bad, no moral or immoral, just what had to be done — traffickers and abusers and handlers will never just let their victims go, regardless of if they ask really nicely or not. It’s life or death. They chose life.

Or in Killer’s case (has likely died multiple times, juts can never seem to stay dead), potentially something one of his Stages (such as Stage 4) believes is worse than death. It could genuinely believe that if it doesn’t do what it does, something unbelievably horrible is going to happen. Something that would make it wish it were dead.

[thealterscrolls]

Bucky having DID as a headcanon generally sucks because it’s almost always a complete misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the disorder that falls into “guy and his evil alter” territory but Bucky having OSDD-2? It’s quite literally canon, even if not stated. He is THE media representation for OSDD-2, which is the designation given for the dissociative disorder stemming from brainwashing, coercion, torture, etc resulting in prolonged identity disturbance. As someone with said disorder, it’s frustrating that there’s not more readily available or findable literature on it and I also wish it was more generally acknowledged in regards to Bucky. This is another reason I’m frustrated by TFaTWS because they actually somewhat addressed his dissociation and identity struggles but the show writing overall did him so dirty with his “therapy.”

[chaos-in-one]

Why have I now had 2 different people try to suggest that me not feeling like the 1a or 1b terms for OSDD fit me (don't feel alters are indistinct and have heavy amnesia) means I might have one of the other 3 forms of OSDD

Guys

OSDD-1 is the only one of the 4 with alters as a symptom. And the one I was diagnosed with because I have that symptom. Please look up what the criteria for OSDD 2, 3, and 4 are before suggesting things like that I beg

[howlsofbloodhounds]

Here and here are the brief posts I could find. I talked about it a few more times but I can’t find em right now.

can someone like.... explain to me how killer would have DID... i thought it like??? stemmed from childhood trauma ? and killer's trauma happened to him as an adult . i understand the connection from the stages and all that, but wouldn't it be something else?

[hollowandcoldanddark]

i see people talk about how ramcoa is like a special term which is meant to make people feel special but i guess its like.

for me, it feels easier for me to talk about. lightens the load. coming out and being like oh i went through sex trafficking physical abuse emotional abuse religious abuse cult indoctrination and abuse isolation torture conditioning brainwashing starvation continued trafficking... etc etc etc etc

like its too much. i find it a lot easier to try to explain it with ramcoa. also god im so sorry jewish people but i dont give a shit if youre like hey this fucking 20 year old when they talk to their 2 close friends uses a term associated with antisemitism. im so exhausted.

i guess its also like theres no term for like. programming mind control at all really. like osdd2 ig. right. like calling it "i was a victim of mind control" is so fucking stupid - no one in the populus is going to associate that with torture.

theres a strange dichotomy of like... people saying that "religious abuse is not ramcoa" and then also "most ramcoa survivors are just survivors of organised abuse like relgious abuse" which is really funny to me. its not my place to decide. theres this one guy i met who basically was like oh our experiences are the same because i was catholic. and its like.... i hope not

its not my problem either. i like looking at the tag to self harm - make myself feel like a piece of shit. but like not to minimise ur shit but also fully to minimise your shit - there are bigger problems righjt. like i dont have the energy to argue about antisemitism. im so tired. im unsafe. who fucking cares.

[caeliangel]

hi, can i ask what osdd2, 3 and 4 are? im not familiar with the terms and i would love to learn about them :)

See here or here. I'm not much educated on them either.

OSDD 2 : describes a dissociative identity disturbance caused by prolonged and intense coercive persuasion. ( brainwashing, thought reform, indoctrination while captive, torture, long-term political imprisonment, recruitment by sects/cults or by terror organizations.) They experience distressing changes to and/or questioning of their identity.

OSDD 3 : diagnosed when a person experiences acute dissociative reactions to stressful events. These reactions last anywhere from a few hours to weeks, but typically less than a month. ( constriction of consciousness, including depersonalization; derealization; perceptual disturbances (e.g., time slowing, macropsia); micro-amnesias; transient stupor; and/or alterations in sensory-motor functioning (e.g., analgesia, paralysis).

OSDD 4 : characterised by a dissociative trance; "an acute narrowing or complete loss of awareness of immediate surroundings that manifests as profound unresponsiveness or insensitivity to environmental stimuli. The DSM specifies that "The dissociative trance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted collective cultural or religious practice".

I might have osdd 3 more than osdd 1a, idk if you can have both. Everytime I experience strong emotions or stuff that get me back into traumatic events, I dissociate and I cannot function anymore. I have blackouts and wake up somewhere. But I do hear and feel many mes. Some that keep emotions away from me, to protect me.

[circular-bircular]

...i do not understand the "osdd1a doesn't have alters" thing at all. isn't it the CLOSEST to the LITERAL definition of alters? as in, "alternate personality"??? they have separate personality states that have some kind of autonomy but not full distinction like 1b or DID, that doesn't make them less alters. like... not all alters are individual people, but 1a still has alters. identity confusion that isn't alters... isn't osdd1 anymore, thats osdd2-4. like... im just so confused.

Alter, as a term, has been indicative of the fully distinct states we see in 1b and DID. There’s a difference there, and that’s all that OP was saying in the original debacle.

I will say - I literally couldn’t give less of a shit about the topic, myself. I barely touch OSDD, because I focus on DID recovery research. I think there should be more focus on OSDD in the community and in the research, but frankly, I consider it all basically the same. It boils down to the semantics of an acronym.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

wait could you elaborate on peeta having OSDD-2 im curious 0:

Context.

I’ll leave a link for OSDD-2 and his Hijacking here and here. Note that it’s been awhile since I watched the movies or read the books, so details may be wrong or off.

But in short, although he is obviously a fictional character and wasn’t like..diagnosed with anything officially, he is basically held captive and tortured, brainwashed for weeks.

He is drugged and dosed with tracker jacker venom against his will while being tortured and held in captivity, which is said to generate the part of the brain that causes fear. Stings from these creatures can cause “visual, auditory, olfactory, and tactile hallucinations.”

Hijacking, the form of torture and brainwashing the Capitol used against many—including Peeta Mellark—is described as:

“Tracker jacker venom can also be used to ‘hijack’ memories in a highly secretive form of torture. A memory is called up by some sort of stimulus, and tracker jacker venom is injected in small enough quantities that it causes little physical reaction and minimal hallucination, while still targeting the fear center of the brain.

The memory then becomes subconsciously associated with fear and pain, as well as being perceptibly warped. Afterwards, the brain rerecords the memory in the altered form.”

The books go more in depth on the effect this torture and brainwashing had on Peeta a bit more than the movies, such as;

“His memories of Katniss Everdeen were targeted and altered to the point that he would view her as a threat and try to kill her in self-defense. When he, Johanna Mason, and Annie Cresta were rescued and taken to District 13 for medical treatment, he strangled Katniss on sight until he was knocked out by Boggs.”

Doctors from District 13 are careful about selecting someone to go in to talk to Peeta and explain everything he missed in captivity—someone who knew him in childhood, but someone who wouldn’t remind him of Katniss and trigger him.

In the movies, it was Katniss’ little sister, Primrose. In the books, it was Delly Cartwright.

“Peeta was confused, asking where they were and why his family had not been in to see him. Delly was under instruction not to say anything about Katniss or the Capitol, so she tried to redirect the conversation to happy childhood memories, and she struggled to explain what had happened to District 12. Peeta became agitated as he realized there had been a fire. He blamed Katniss for it, yelling that she was a muttation created by the Capitol.”

In an attempt to “re-hijack” Peeta—“calling up memories under the calming influence of morphling in order to associate them with positive emotions”—they show him footage from one of the games he and Katniss were in, where K was telling Peeta the story of how she got Lady (the goat) for Prim.

According to Haymitch, Peeta was very confused by the footage, and “he lost the ability to speak for several hours. Went into some sort of stupor. When he came out, the only thing he asked about was the goat."

The next attempt was via showing Peeta footage of K singing The Hanging Tree, and Peeta “said he recognized the song. When Peeta was six or seven, Mr. Everdeen sang it once when he came to trade at the bakery.

Peeta recounted that was listening to see if the birds had stopped singing. This was the first time that recalling a connection to Katniss had not triggered Peeta.”

Eventually during the point in Peeta’s recovery where he was allowed to eat with the rest of the population of District 13–handcuffed and accompanied by guards— he “sat next to Johanna and was kind towards Annie, though he showed hostility towards Finnick Odair and Katniss.

After Katniss left the table with Gale Hawthorne, Delly lectured Peeta about how he'd treated Katniss, and according to Johanna, "he started arguing with himself like he was two people" before he was taken away by guards.”

In the section labeled ‘the Battle of the Capitol,’ it’s noted that:

“He and Katniss discussed the confusing state of their relationship, and Peeta expressed doubt in his ability to tell what was real. Finnick told Peeta that if he was unsure, he could ask, since that's what Annie did. Inspired by this, Jackson devised the game Real or Not Real the next morning, and Peeta played it with the rest of the squad in order to sort out his memories.”

The next day, there’s an attack that blows off one of the men’s legs, and the chaos and noise triggers an episode in Peeta that causes him to attack and attempt to kill Katniss again. Its description on the Wiki is:

“Mitchell tackled Peeta and attempted to pin him to the ground, but Peeta threw him off into a mislabeled pod, killing him. The other soldiers managed to restrain Peeta and evacuate the area. Jackson got his handcuffs back on him, but this agitated him further, so he had to be locked in a closet.

He kicked the door for a while before eventually passing out. The squad relocated again, and when Peeta came to, he was wrought with guilt over killing Mitchell. He even asked the squad to kill him.”

Similar to the way Killer even seems to use touch to tell what is and isn’t real, Peeta demanded that they keep the handcuffs on him because the pain of them digging into his wrists kept him grounded. He then demands they cuff him to something else.

After the Second Rebellion, its noted that: “He saw Dr. Aurelius for treatment in the Capitol before he was eventually allowed to return to District 12 in early spring. He still experienced traumatic flashbacks, but he was able to rekindle his relationship with Katniss.”

In essence, this all points to a prolonged dissociative identity disturbance/change in identity due to torture, captivity, brainwashing, thought reform, and drugging. Aka, OSDD-2.

[jordan-is-hot]

OSDD and all its subtypes

It has come to my attention that many people don't know that OSDD is an umbrella term and covers all OSDD subtypes, including OSDD1, OSDD1a, OSDD1b, OSDD2, OSDD3, and OSDD4. if anyone wants to hear about any of these disorders, I've been collecting research and am ready to discuss them. let me know if I should make further posts about this topic!

[mlmqpr]

shotout to those who have innersystem relationships! shoutout to those who date and have qprs on the inside! who have crushes/squishes on headmates! ur love is real and matters and youre not cringey!

[atcomicalsys]

[question!]

can someone explain inner worlds to me and how could they be and how do they work? pretty please ;;

-host

[squeerpia]

I need your help :) and it is not for money

I need inspiration. My boyfriend's alter wants me to draw her and...it is kinda hard to draw someone you cannot precieve physically. Any help?

[howlsofbloodhounds]

Btw, I have no idea who any of those characters are, never watched hunger games.

Context.

[megami606sama]

Does Saeran have DID?

TLDR: No, but he has a similar condition called OSDD2

Saeran's personality has been widely discussed, his duality, characteristics and behavior have quite possibly made him the most loved boy by the fandom. However, little has been detailed about his condition, leaving many questions and confusions that I would like to try to clear up in this very long post.

I hope you can sit, drink a warm coffee (or Dr Pepper if it's summer!) and enjoy this analysis, based on the most accepted psychiatric diagnosis manuals, my own knowledge and also experience.

As always, any constructive criticism or talk is welcomed :)

So.. ☆ let's get started ☆

What is DID?

Dissociative disorders are a group of conditions characterized by experiencing a disruption in the person's perception of self. It can also cause a discontinuity in the integration of consciousness, memory, perception and/or behavior.

This can translate into memory loss of important events, or daily life (dissociative amnesia). A sense of not knowing "who i am", or feeling like "i'm someone else" (disruption of identity), seeing the world as "i'm watching a movie" or "inside a dream" (depersonalization / derealization)... All those symptoms are consequences of the same basis: Dissociation.

In Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) dissociation will be experienced in two major alterations: the presence of two or more different personality states and episodes of dissociative amnesia.

Personality is a characteristic of every person, it's the set of traits and qualities that makes us who we are. In people with DID, personality fails to integrate, keeping parts of it fragmented into different identities.

These identities or alters, can be different from each other, harboring separated memories, tastes, behaviors and sensations.

And generally, there are one or more alters that have often the control of the body, we know them as "hosts".

When there's an host switch, the identity that takes control usually doesn't has access to the memories that the previous host had, causing the dissociative amnesia episodes.

Structural dissociation theory

In short words, structural dissociation theory proposes that DID, and some other dissociative-related disorders, is caused by severe trauma during early childhood, when identity isn't fully formed yet.

This theory suggests that children are not born with a unified sense of self, but it takes form from multiple experiences. And, in children overwhelmed by traumatic circumstances, many parts of identity that should have been integrated remain separated.

Complex trauma will cause the child to focus on survival instead integration, keeping their perceptions, memories and experiences dissociated as a protective mechanism.

It is implied that the severity of dissociation may be related to the complexity of the trauma and the age it was experienced.

Saeran's Story

To define if Saeran has any condition or not, and based on what we already reviewed about DID, it is important to summarize Saeran's important life events, the ones that made him who he is.

Both twins were born and raised in a context of severe abuse and trauma, making possible, based on what we discussed about structural dissociation, that Saeran may have dissociated parts of himself from an early age. However, this is not suggested ingame.

It is known that Saeran and Saeyoung lived together till their early teen years, when Saeyoung left to work at the agency, around their 15 years old. But until then, Saeran kept a structured and consistent personality, that Saeyoung described as "kind and tender".

So, with the information provided by Cheritz so far, we can safely conclude that, even if Saeran has evident risk factors to it, he didn't dissociate at early childhood, but later.

And the moment of his first dissociation is explicitly shown ingame: once kidnapped by Mint Eye, tortured by Rika and "cleansed" with the drug they call Elixir.

After prolonged torture focused on making him deny his beliefs, Saeran finally gives in to Rika's manipulation, providing her what she wanted: a different Saeran.

His first identity, differentiated from the Saeran we have met till now, is a "nameless one", who uses the same name, but at the same time behaves completely differently: Unknown, also known as Suit Saeran (but I have decided to call him AS Unknown, for reasons I will explain later)

At the same time, Ray is born as everything that "Unknown is not", merging all the characteristics, fears and feelings that Unknown is not allowed to experience, everything that is qualified as "unworthy", but also as "nice".

Both Unknown and Ray behave, act, think and feel differently. And even if they share some similarities, each has a full sense of identity, almost antagonizing each other.

They're both conscious of each other, and can share some partial inner communication. Even if the other one is fronting, or in control, the "dormant" identity will still know what's happening.

So, after being forced to dissociate, Saeran's identity is mainly split in two: Ray and Unknown, but it is not possible for them to determine who's gonna be in control. They can't switch as they please or because the situation requires one of them to be present, Ray will stay as the main host till a trigger happens: the same one that created them. The elixir.

This dynamic stays similar since the beginning of Magenta till it's fall. In AS, this happens after 6 months; in OS after 1 year and a half. (conclusion obtained considering Rika's death date as the funding date of Magenta, and its fall the time it has passed since then, suggested in both prologues)

In OS, after a more prolonged exposition to the elixir, and more time to settle in, we get to know a more mature version of Unknown, the one most people are used to see; staying as the main host.

And, depending on the route, we'll meet a third identity, one formed after therapy the power of love.

Whether by romantic or filial love, we will meet Saeran again, this time more stable and "complete", inheriting aspects from both Ray and Unknown.

In SE we'll see a more Unknown-ish Saeran, while in AS, a more Ray-ish Saeran. But in both cases, the process is the same: trying to be one again.

Is this Saeran the same Saeran he was as a child, before dissociation? Is he the result of integration? or maybe a third identity? It is not really clear, but we know that both Unknown and Ray are not completely gone, they still persist in his inner world. Which means that certain dissociative elements are still there.

By this reason, and for Cheritz's provided information, i believe that GE/SE Saeran is most likely a bridge for integration, the result of him accepting both of once split parts of himself: an still healing Saeran Choi.

This coincides with the 3 identities officially recognized by Cheritz.

Being that said, all other "versions" of Saeran met in the diverging routes and endings, would be one of those three under different scenarios.

So... let's go to the main question:

Does Saeran have DID?

Let's compare DID diagnosis criteria with what we have seen about Saeran:

A. Disruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states. B. Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting. C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in important areas of functioning. D. The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice. E. The symptoms are not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance

As we can notice, Saeran does have a disruption of identity; yet he doesn't suffer from major dissociative amnesia. He can recall what the other identity has done, even if he can't control it while it's happening. He remembers his past pretty well, and so his daily life.

His dissociation does cause disturbance in his normal life, but since his first dissociative episode was caused by the Cleansing ceremony, and is mainly triggered by the Elixir (as Unknown said himself, he needs the elixir to wake up), he does not fit in the last criteria either.

It is important to point out that, despite him suffering from severe childhood trauma, it isn't implied that he showed early dissociative symptoms, and even if dissociation can be manifested at any age, it is most likely that this was caused by Rika's torture.

With 3/5 criteria, we cannot diagnose DID, which forces us to look for a differential diagnosis.

Saeran does not have DID.

What is Saeran's disorder then?

With DID ruled out, we're still left with a wide variety of diagnoses when it comes to dissociative disorders. The WHO recognizes 10 entities within this family:

Among these conditions, there is one that fits surprisingly well to all the circumstances described in canon: Other Specified Dissociative Disorder Type 2, proposed by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, DSM-5.

OSDD2 is a clinical diagnosis where the subject experience dissociative symptoms manifested as prolonged changes in their identity, that might be accompanied by a disruption on their consciousness and/or memory; as a consequence of indoctrination, torture, brainwashing, and/or being recruited into cults.

The longer the brainwashing, the longer the symptoms prevail, which may worsen this identity disruption across time.

OSDD is an entity that has less strict diagnostic criteria, which can be summarized as:

Experience dissociative symptoms

Not fully meet criteria for other diagnosis

Identity disruption is a consequence of brainwashing.

Saeran meets these three criteria, which allows us to say that he very likely has OSDD2.

Unfortunately, OSDD2 is a very understudied and underreported condition, so it is very difficult to find more information about it other than its diagnostic criteria.

Finally, as I will explore in the conclusions, it is important to keep in mind that there are details that we do not know about Saeran. Elements about his past, future and evolution, which perhaps, in case new canon content is revealed, will make us reconsider this diagnosis in favor of a different one. But for now, with the information and evidence provided in this same post, i can safely conclude that Saeran has OSDD2.

Other, yet less likely, possible diagnosis: Partial Dissociative Identity Disorder (also known as OSDD1) as the second most fit to him, since he only doesn't meet 1 criteria (it is stated it can't be caused by drugs).

Much less, yet also likely, possible diagnosis: Secondary Dissociative Syndrome, Unspecified Dissociative Disorder.

Conclusions

It is always important to keep in mind that diagnoses are a consensus made by experienced people, who find similar patterns in certain ones and associate them with a syndrome or condition. Disorders as such, describe a group of people, adapting to them, it will never be the other way around. Diagnoses don't have to fit people's situation, not perfectly at least, and that doesn't mean their circumstances are any less valid or painful.

Diagnoses are meant to adapt to people, people don't have to adapt their situations to fit into a diagnosis.

Despite everything, Saeran will always be one person. Each of his fragments forms part of him, and therefore there isn't a Saeran less valid than other, or less "real" than other.

Lastly, if Saeran does indeed have OSDD2, with time and therapy love, it's very possible for him to become a single identity again. One of the characteristics of OSDD2 is that, since the person's identity is already structured beforehand, the traumatic event generally only manages to disturb it and not fragment it (since the age where structural integration consolidates has already passed), so recovery is very possible.

However, this is not an absolute. If dissociation continues to be encouraged for some reason, it will be difficult for him to reintegrate. Hence his need to be in a healthy, supportive environment that allows him to heal.

Of course, these are mostly assumptions, since reaching an accurate and definitive conclusion would require talking, studying and working with Saeran himself, and not with the limited information we have about him.

Finally, after all this, we can summarize this analysis in:

1. Saeran doesn't have DID 2. Saeran most likely has OSDD2 3. This may change with time and circumstances he could face in the future. Since by the end of the game, he has just begun his healing process.

If you managed to read this till here, I hope you enjoyed this analysis as much as I enjoyed writing it. Any comments will be appreciated ♡

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References

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, American Psychiatric Asociation 5° edition, 2014.

ICD-11 International Classification of Diseases for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics, World Health Organization Eleventh Revision, 2022

El Yo Atormentado. La Disociación Estructural Y El Tratamiento De La Traumatización Crónica. Onno Van Der Hart, 2011.

[mlmqpr]

so many ppl talking abt their system love....anyways systems reblog this and talk about the cutest relationship (to you) is in your system i want to know (can be romantic/platonic/family i dont mind!!!)

[justanothersyscourse]

I've heard about OSDD2, OSDD3 and OSDD4 but I've only found ay info on OSDD1 (a and b) so what are they?

All OSDD types are dissociative presentations that don't quite fit into the other DDs. OSDD 1 includes DID-like symptoms, and is the only other disorder that presents with alters. OSDD 2, is identity confusion, not alterations, OSDD 3 is for short-term dissociative reactions, and OSDD 4 is trance like symptoms.

Technically, OSDD 1a and 1b don't exist. That's from DDNOS, but the distinction stuck around.