#orv theory
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Avatar - fundamentally broken skill?
This is a thing I have been thinking about. The way powers (skills, stigmas, whatever) work in the world of ORV is fascinating in that they are not designed to help the incarnation or adjust to their bodies like a classical superpower. It's repeated many times that the Star Stream is a cruel place, so of course it makes nothing easy on them. Just look at how many times Shin Yoosung and Lee Gilyoung bleed when using their skills. Or how Anna Croft and Yoo Joonghyuk were destroyed mentally by their repeated lifetimes - don't even get me started on Regression.
And Avatar is one of the skills that is the most developed. I've talked about how manifesting it seemingly splits you in two (I recommend reading this previous meta before this post) but what does that split entail, exactly? Here's my theories.
1. Author/Character divide.
If we take 1863rd Yoo Joonghyuk as an example, it's very clear cut. The black coat wearing YJH would be the 'character' who stays and dies and the white coat wearing YJH would be the 'author' who choses to write another story. 'Character' used here in the sense that Kim Dokja would look at them and be able to see/assign them this metaphysical trait, as he does for everyone else.
With Kim Dokja, it is basically easy too. 51% is the author, while 49% is the character, probably.
Han Sooyoung is more difficult. I think since Kim Dokja looks at 1863rd and says she is already a 'character', while 3rd stays a person the whole time IIRC, 3rd would be the 'author' self, even if this seems counterintuitive and like it should be the opposite - this makes the most sense with the second part of this theory.
Technically every author (or reader - someone with the knowledge of the narrative) becomes a 'character' (i.e forgets everything) at some point as per Star Stream rules, but this has not yet happened to Han Sooyoung of the 3rd round.
Still, it's not a perfect fit. Both Han Sooyoungs write novels and neither Kim Dokja does (not that writing is 100% necessary to be an 'Author', since YJH is one and barely writes anything until the epilogue) But it's still an interesting connection to explore.
Onto the second part.
2. Does the divide into two...actually work long term, because it doesn't seem to, based on the evidence we have?
First, let's look at 49% Kim Dokja. Perhaps Kimcom would have accepted him as the real Kim Dokja, like they do with Han Sooyoung, if he didn't ACT like a wet paper towel. The detoriation in mental faculties is very apparent and jarring and soon he falls apart physically too. This doesn't happen to 3rd Han Sooyoung, who is also an avatar, so what gives?
Well, it might not happen to 3rd but definitely did to 1863rd Han Sooyoung.

A 'probability storm is gnawing at her memories' and there's physical effects too. She says this has been happening for a while. Even though she has found a way of slowing down the effects it clearly doesn't fix the issue and eventually, despite her resistance, she might have become like 49% Kim Dokja.
(Maybe that's why she was so ready to leave her companions after the scenarios were over. If rereading stuff helps, perhaps that's also why she kept a diary of her round that 3rd YJH eventually got? Just spitballing, this isn't part of the theory.)
She names two possible causes to this detorriation - exessive use of the Avatar skill or Ways of Survival. 'Ways of Survival' probably refers to the Star Stream rule that once you reach the end of your knowledge you forget you were an author and become a 'character', which 1863 justifiably doesn't want to happen. Later, Kim Dokja comments on her 'status as a character' too, so it is related to that.
With 'overuse of Avatar' she could be refering to the way she makes thousands of them in her mind, but if we look at 49% Kim Dokja and the way their sympthoms match pretty closely, it's likely also the fact that another her - the main body/'author' - is running around in another worldline.
So for these two it checks out that one of the halves is always unstable.
With 1863rd Yoo Joonghyuk, well, it's hard to tell how it would have gone, since black coat YJH dies almost immediately. But the very fact that his avatar didn't even make it a couple minutes is also pretty telling.
As previously stated, nothing is stopping a skill from being harmful for the user. So maybe, one half of the initial avatar pair gets the short end of the stick and ends up slowly disintegrating. That's the basics of this theory.
Technically 51% Kim Dokja disintegrates into the Star Stream too but it is by a different mechanism, unrelated to the Avatar skill. First, he overconsumes probablility and shrinks into a child - this happens to Secretive Plotter too, it's just a thing.
Then, he loses his memories and if Kimcom hadn't interviewed would have become the same exact child that SP takes away in the subway, so that was just the time loop asserting itself. Like alt-1863rd YJH losing his memories when regressing to the 3rd round, or 1863 Han Sooyoung going dormant in Young Han Sooyoung's mind on the day the scenarios start. (Each of these are the looping points of the universe for yhk.)
But something about the way 1863rd Han Sooyoung in those 13 years sheds pieces of her story to create TWSA is very reminiscient of how 51% Kim Dokja disintegrates into the Star Stream on that subway. So perhaps there is some kind of connection there too.
#orv#orv spoilers#my posts#kim dokja#yoo joonghyuk#han sooyoung#omniscient reader's viewpoint#1863 arc#avatar skill#another long theory post from yours truly. does this even make any sense#can you believe this isnt even all I have to say about Avatar? there's another one of this length coming at some point#orv theory
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a story that can't be obtained again
#orv#kim dokja#yoo joonghyuk#joongdok#ever makes art#current orv reading progress: around chapter 310ish and five paragraphs' worth of unhinged brainvomiting theories into my friends DMs
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I imagined SecretPlotter so often with face "why the fck are you so stupid" to Dokja i can't.
Still like my idea that he could be Dokja from the future, returned for fixing his story to the right direction or change something
Gosh I miss my first try of first 20 chapters if only I can remember more thoughts from that time :(
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Interrupted continuity - the easiest way forward
#orv#disconnected film theory got me thinking about how many times shin yoosung was killed in TWSA#no wonder dokja has a soft spot for her#shes a sacrifical lamb#orv fanart#shin yoosung#orv sys#omniscient reader's viewpoint
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Kim Dokja trying to kill his kid self is such a brutal scene. ORV is full of scenes that can break your heart but this close to the end this scene just... it just hits you. And this poor child, alone and left behind, witnessing an older version of himself only to be hated by him.
Imagine suddenly being visited by yourself from the future and that person seems to hate you, to want you gone. All the pain of trying to push through, to survive till it gets better must have been useless if the future your despises you so much
It's also a genius twist - people talk about taking care of your inner child. Of course Kim Dokja would try to kill it. He almost wouldn't be himself if he didn't. I just hope when all is finished he has time to actually come to care for it
#orv#omniscient reader novel#omniscient reader's viewpoint#orv kim dokja#kim dokja#omniscient reader analysis#orv analysis#orv theories#orv spoilers
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secret plotter...i hate your stupid ass cloak sm
#say goodbye to colors everyone. i quit. im done with color theory so now its only shades of grey & black#orv#omniscient reader's viewpoint#yoo joonghyuk#<- sorta xD#orv novel#orv spoilers#secretplotter#love this guy'
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You know, I kinda think that Kim Dokja had actually recognized Yoo Joonghyuk as the Punisher, if not at the beginning then at least later on, but he just… convinced himself that the two couldn’t possibly be the same. Because he considers the notion of Yoo Joonghyuk becoming a girl to be something that’s impossible. We see that early on when he met Kim Namwoon in the Underworld in chapter 113:
The Delusional Demon Kim Namwoon reflecting was as impossible as Yoo Joonghyuk becoming a girl.
Of course, Kim Namwoon was confirmed to be telling the truth about reflecting on himself right away (which was a really good foreshadowing for the Punisher, lol), but Kim Dokja still has a hard time believing it because it’s just something he considers to not be possible. And he puts Yoo Joonghyuk becoming a girl at the same level. That’s how impossible it is to him. Later on, he even says this in chapter 251:
A strange feeling entered my heart. Perhaps? I had a thought but it wasn't possible. It was impossible for such a thing to come true, no matter how I thought about it.
This is right after Aileen told him that the Punisher had disappeared at the same time Yoo Joonghyuk had departed with him. While he did momentarily consider the notion of the Punisher and Yoo Joonghyuk being the same being, he dismissed it as he was still convinced that it’s impossible. And this is at a point when not only has his favorite novel become reality, but he also knows that his male ex-boss had gotten pregnant and given birth. And even in the midst of all that, even with everything he’s seen possible under the Star Stream, the idea of Yoo Joonghyuk becoming a girl is still inconceivable to him.
Now that we have seen just how deeply convinced Kim Dokja is that Yoo Joonghyuk and the Punisher cannot be the same, let’s have a look at something else. Namely, Yoo Sangah’s POV in chapter 267:
A dazzling aura burst from Yoo Joonghyuk's body. Soft hair poured down like a waterfall while his large size became a smaller and sleeker body. He took the form that allowed him to practice the ultimate Breaking the Sky Swordsmanship. Yoo Sangah stared at the scene from behind and couldn't help opening her mouth. “…Yoo Joonghyuk-ssi?”
Yoo Joonghyuk slowly turned back, his long hair cut off by the Black Heavenly Demon Sword. The lines of the face had changed but it was clearly Yoo Joonghyuk. No, it was even more than before. Yoo Joonghyuk's gaze stayed on Kim Dokja's face for a moment.
Yoo Joonghyuk transformed into his female form during the 73rd Demon Realm’s demon king selection and Yoo Sangah witnessed the scene. The lines of the face had changed but it was clearly Yoo Joonghyuk—even in his female form, he is recognisably still Yoo Joonghyuk. Sure, early on the people at the now Yoo Joonghyuk - Kim Dokja industrial complex didn’t clock the Punisher as female Yoo Joonghyuk either, but they also weren’t too familiar with his looks at that point. That’s not the case with Yoo Sangah, and definitely not the case with Kim Dokja. Another point to note is how it’s mentioned that Yoo Joonghyuk has a smaller body in this form—a different skeletal structure, so to speak.
Now finally, there’s this bit in chapter 269 when Kim Dokja carries the dying Yoo Joonghyuk away from Surya and the other constellations:
Yoo Joonghyuk was barely breathing. The weight of his body was lighter than usual. He had suffered such severe pain that even the skeleton of his body seemed changed.
The bit I want to focus on here is “even the skeleton of his body seemed changed”. As mentioned, Yoo Joonghyuk has a smaller skeleton in his female form. So he’s a girl at this point. The main difference in his appearance at this point compared to the Punisher who Kim Dokja saw previously is that Yoo Joonghyuk cut his hair. And Kim Dokja recognised him. Even if he hadn’t actually subconsciously figured out who the mysterious Punisher was prior to this, he was definitely able to recognise Yoo Joonghyuk in his female form at this moment.
So the main conclusions here are that Yoo Joonghyuk is very much recognizable in his female form and that Kim Dokja is capable of recognizing him simply with a haircut. So I personally believe that Kim Dokja was fully capable of knowing that Yoo Joonghyuk = the Punisher, but he was just so adamant about Yoo Joonghyuk turning into a girl to be something completely impossible that he made himself believe that the two were different people.
#orv#omniscent reader's viewpoint#orv spoilers#kim dokja#yoo joonghyuk#the punisher#okay i admit this is somewhat of a crack theory#but it does make sense at least to me#also kim dokja is very comphet about the punisher#maybe that’s why he doesn’t want to acknowledge that the two are the same#because then he’d have to admit that the beautiful girl he was attracted to who had the same face as yoo joonghyuk#was actually yoo joonghyuk
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Yoo Joonghyuk, the man that you are (Master of yearning)

Lineart version cause I like them
#If I tell u how fucking much energy this took#Its so chaotic i dont like it#but honestly i dont wanna put any more effort#its done and that's what matters#fuck lightning fuck shadows and color theory#orv#orv fanart#yoo joonghyuk#orv novel#orv webtoon#webtoon#omniscient reader's viewpoint#omniscent reader#myart#orv yjh#yjh#yjh fanart
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its actually VERY STRANGE that the 'you need me for the 46th scenerio' line actually works out for kdj. like that may be the single worst thing you could say to freshly regressed, 3rd round yoo joonghyuk. during the last round a prophet betrayed him during the 46th scenerio, made him a slave, caused his whole family to die, and lead to his presumably violent death, which happened LIKE AN HOUR AGO. you're invoking that image to make him trust you?? HAN SOOYOUNG YOU TOO??????? AND THEN YOO JOONGHYUK DOES???????
#yoohankim#theyre all insane#yoo joonghyuk#kim dokja#han sooyoung#orv#omniscient reader's viewpoint#omniscient reader#also i do have a pet theory on why yjh trusts kdj and hsy but thats a dif post#my posts
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"...Andor is a story in which we know exactly what is going to happen, eventually, because we’ve already seen Rogue One, which left many of us with several questions about how exactly Cassian Andor got where he ended up. Wicked, the book, is a story in which we know the ending (the musical, well, that’s a different story). Game of Thrones walked familiar territory for many of us, up to a point. Every retelling, to some degree, is a story in which the reader knows the ending, depending on their familiarity with the original tale (and the liberties the author does or doesn’t take). Arthur dies. Greek gods and goddesses get up to countless shenanigans. The evil queen/stepmother/witch is defeated. Can you spoil those? Is a spoiler different than basic story knowledge? "I don’t actually want to argue about spoilers. Especially not the week after Marvel gleefully spoiled its own movie in a way that implied that if you were a real fan, you would have gone to said movie already and thus not been spoiled. Spoilers exist, but they’re different for everyone, and a detail is not a spoiler. I think my definition of “spoiler” might be something like “a thing that, once you know it, changes how you experience the whole.” Not necessarily a twist, or a reveal, but a thing you can’t shove back out of your brain. Is it always a thing the storyteller presumably didn’t want you to know? Is the element of surprise part of it? Can that thing still be interesting, even without the surprise? "You can only experience a story for the first time once. But maybe there’s too much emphasis on the relative purity of that first time. It comes back to that impossible question of what each reader wants to know about a book before reading it. I’ve had moments where I had no interest in a book until someone told me a specific detail or angle, unmentioned in the cover copy or reviews, that was right up my alley. I know I’ve had this moment. But whatever book that was has just become part of my mental library, the details forgotten. It mattered at the time. It’s irrelevant now. Details are weird like that."
—Molly Templeton, "It’s Okay to Know Where the Story Is Going"
#quotes for keeping#another banger column from Molly Templeton of Reactor Mag dot com#it's definitely interesting to think about this in context of recent web literature I've read#“can you spoil ORV in a way that matters?” I mean we often joke no but also in many ways. yes#there are things that once you learn you cannot unlearn and will color your experience of the text#but also in some genres (romance and danmei in particular) there is a certain amount of expected spoilers going in#the endgame CP being the most glaring example. I remember while reading 《千秋》#having a lot of thoughts and feelings about how much my complicated emotional journey around the yanshen relationship#was in fact because of the foreknowledge that these two would get together. if I had gone into that book blind#would the burgeoning romance have bothered me as much?#anyway tl;dr I think endgame CPs in danmei are a fascinating case study of how expectation shapes the reader's experience of the narrative#and particularly the themes within it. and of course the intersections with the only theory I ever do anything with: genre theory
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my yjh and phainon agenda grows stronger day by day THEY HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON
#spoilers for hsr and orv ->#but flame reaver and secretive plotter also KFNDFBDN#trailblazer is obviously kdj#if we’re following theories cyrene is hsy#AHHHH okay sorry i need to sleep it’s 5:30am#ru where are you though you are my orvmutual i need you to understand my vision#m’s thoughts
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I like so much interactions between Dokja and SecretP. SP looks like he gets second-hand embarrassed from each Dokja's move
If he is Dokja from future I would die
<no spoilers pls>
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tfw you realise you keep getting deep into media where its just all futile events of doing the same thing again and again.
hadestown, orv, and now hsr (3.4).
i think my brain is electromagnetically attracted to futile doomed tragedies. send help.
#orv#hadestown#hsr lore#hsr#honkai star rail#omniscient reader's viewpoint#omniscient reader webtoon#omniscient reader#hadestown musical#hadestown broadway#this theory has not yet been disproven#im not beating the allegations chat#PHAINON#PHAINON KHASLANA#WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON YOU
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oh han sooyoung was neglected as a child and she has a oral fixation and shes sullen and pessimistic and sarcastic huh. oh she has symbolism ridden dreams huh. oh she has a power based on a splitting of conciousnesses huh. singshong i see the freudian influence ive read the theory you cannot hide from me.
#orv#han sooyoung#like theres no way this was an accident at this point.#noticed it when i was thinking about her oral fixation and how well she fits the symptoms of neglect in the oral stage#but like. thats not all. they were definitely influenced right. im not going crazy#anyway anyone want me to explain these i will <3 i love talking about freudian theory my beloathed
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so hear me out (and this is meant as a crack/conspiracy theory so dont ACTUALLY hear me out)
ykh when you write a character you tend to pull at least some aspect of them from yourself or something youve experienced (at least for a point of reference)
almost like a fragment of yourself goes into said character
and ykh han sooyoung wrote the entirety of twsa and 'in-universe' orv. including kim dokja.
#orv#this is for haha sillies#but im. im justsaying#han sooyoung#conspiracy theories#queued for funsies
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I love the ending of ORV for many reasons. One of them is that the world is still ruined, rebuilding yes, but the things that happened happened. Even when the whole group regressed they: a. didn't achieve the ending they wanted b. The apocalypse still happened c. They came back to their own timeline. The ending cements what I think is one of the main themes: You can't go forward by going back. Nostalgia will trap you. The whole world is still in front of you if you want to reach out. It may be ruined but it's yours to take care of
#omniscient reader novel#omniscient reader's viewpoint#orv#orv kim dokja#omniscient reader analysis#orv analysis#ari speaks#orv theories#kim dokja#orv yoo joonghyuk
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