#or when aerith dies she wakes up in the zack timeline

[oveliagirlhaditright]

I guess I'm placing my bets now... For the most part--aside from whatever is going on with the Zack stuff--I don't think they've really changed anything in FFVII Rebirth compared with the main game (mainly the Aerith thing is what I'm talking about here).

[mysticbluefire]

Marlene's Foresight

Marlene's being able to see into the future like Aerith and Nanaki. However, they all only see the OG Final Fantasy 7 version's future.

She did not want Aerith to wake up from her coma because Cloud is still sick either mako poisoning or his mental state. She did not elaborate his condition. Zack assumed Cloud's mako poisoning needed to be cured. Aerith were to wake up without Cloud being cured. She is going to die by the hands of a scary man.

She talked about how Cloud tried to save her but failed in the end.

In the OG, Cloud tried to kill Aerith through Sephiroth's manipulation but did not do it. Cloud stood there watching Aerith pray without realizing Sephiroth was going down to kill her. She probably does not know every single detail of her dream about that event. She only knows about a scary man killing Aerith while Cloud was in the area. If Cloud would have known the future or noticed Sephiroth in time, he could have saved her.

Marlene wanted to change the future by having Zack to cure Cloud's sickness.

To the outside looking in, people like Zack would assume about the way she was talking. She might have had a bad dream. However, she convinced him by describing the scary by his hair appearance.

It is all about assumption from Marlene's part to have Zack cure Cloud's illness in order to save Aerith. Marlene only had the knowledge of the OG timeline not the new timeline. She does not know about what happened at the end of Remake. It created a new timeline where Zack and Biggs survived. The new timeline known as Terrior Timeline/Universe.

The main timeline is the Beagle Timeline/Universe where the main gang is currently.

In the Beagle Timeline/Univers, Cloud did deflict Sephiroth's sword without having Zack to help. It did create a new timeline by showing a rainbow effect like when Zack would make different choices to creating new timelines. One timeline where Aerith lived and the other timeline where she died.

Marlene's statement about Zack having to save Cloud in order to save Aerith was not true. Aerith had already been saved by Cloud without Zack's help. Aerith does not need to be saved again. Zack told Cloud to save Aerith even though Cloud already saved her. It was more on Zack's end on how timelines are different from one another. He had been trying to play catch up with the whole story since the beginning of Rebirth. Like how people known Cloud being a merc and running around Midgar even though Zack was with Cloud. Zack's most known qoute from Final Fantasy 7.

Marlene told Zack about Aerith's feelings towards Cloud. Whatever Marlene viewed it as true or over exaggeration because she is 4 years old, after all. It made Zack's heart more in despair. Zack's sole purpose was to go to Midgar for Aerith but finds out about Aerith having feelings toward Cloud. It does set how everything around Zack was going to despair from the love of his life having feelings for his friend to world ending events.

The game did make Marlene into someone who knows the future by trying to figure out a way to stop a certain event from happening by having Zack to help in the process as well as making friends with Biggs through her. Zack had to make different choices on who he was going to save in turn made rainbow effects to see a timeline change. Most the choices he made did not end well other than the one timeline where he did not know who to pick. Maybe he went to the main timeline or in the Intregrade DLC timeline. When Cloud did clash with Sephiroth, it showed a rainbow effect that it changed a timeline.

Cloud is still sick mentally through Sephiroth's manipulation. He may be way worse condition compared to the OG Final Fantasy 7 in the next game. Is Tifa going to be enough to put Cloud's mind back together in the Lifestream, or is Sephiroth is going to further break Cloud to change the timeline again? Is Zack going to take part in helping Cloud's mind like Marlene predicted, just in a different way?

Is Zack's sole purpose for being alive is to save Cloud, or is he going to having a bigger purpose in the next game than just saving Cloud? Zack should take a bigger part in the next game instead of what he got in Rebirth.

Marlene may know some parts of the OG future, especially big events like Aerith's death to be fated, but it does not mean she is going to be 100% accurate because she has some knowledge of it.

It is kind of a weird observation I had with Marlene.

[terraxcloud]

A Few Many Things...

There are 5 or more timelines, and it's not worth counting them anymore.

Biggs dies in one (the middle) but Zack at the church immediately talks about him being alive (this is the Zack that meets Cloud in the final battle I believe). The first image is the last Aerith date and the Stamp bag is to the left. Johnny appears with a plushie of a dog to show it's a different timeline instead of using a bag.

The reason it's not worth counting them is due to what Sephiroth says:

In this scene the FF9 Terra/Gaia "two planets becoming one" thing is shown again.

They represent the timelines as worlds, but what they're showing is an FF9 thing involving actual planets. I'll look at DFFOO Act 4 Chapters 4 & 8 again to see what's up there. Of course, they wouldn't say it's planets because of the implications, but that's not to say these timelines aren't coming together...they just need a reason since most people just think the devs are changing things just to change them. Gilgamesh has already appeared in this game from his own rift anyway.

After the Temple of the Ancients, Aerith and Tifa aren't able to stop Cloud from giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth. The date scenes between Aerith and Cloud are more than likely for Yuffie than Terra, especially since we have no idea of Terra other than the main theme lyrics.

The descriptions Cloud gives about what he prefers and how he acts matches what they show of Yuffie's interests (chocobos, getting paid for jobs or acting like a merc, smiling, seeing Red XIII as a dog, staring at Cloud, the poses for the photo with Aerith, being pissed off, etc.

This isn't saying that Terra is supposed to be like this. Yuffie was always a reflection of "real Cloud", however, both Terra and Yuffie are similar to him (the whole "siblings" dynamic). It could be that the Terra we got in other games isn't the same as the one when FF6 was being developed before the main character vanished (Kefka may have sucked her personality away).

The thing that makes Cloud "regain himself" is remembering the flower Aerith gave him in the beginning of Remake.

I don't know if Aerith will find the "real Cloud" herself. Tifa represents that part, but it's clear they're changing things with her. Obviously, they're going to use the "dream" this time around, which is what Aerith represents (she already has a shared dream with Zack), not Tifa. They also put a small shooting star bit with Aerith instead of Tifa, but if Aerith's technically dead the only character that can do these things is Yuffie.

The dialog Yuffie gives immediately gives after Cloud wakes up before the Lost Capital is the hint. It couldn't be encapsulated in a small scene, so they just left Yuffie out of it. If she's not going to do anything, why would she say it immediately?

Another hint was after the Demon Gate boss when Cloud starts banging his sword on the wall to break through. The two characters they show reacting to him are Barret and Yuffie, but the camera goes towards Yuffie in particular. Before this Yuffie was shadow boxing with Barret, which is what she does with Cloud at the end of her date scene (it also happens with Barret after leaving the Mansion at Nibelheim before the final Roche boss fight).

I believe Red XIII represents the change Cloud has personality-wise ("you don't always have to play the badass") while Barret represents the anger he feels at Sephiroth. Having Yuffie shadow box Barret for fun while Cloud is going crazy for the Black Materia shows that Yuffie will have a big role in preventing Cloud from doing this in the 3rd game.

The Corel sidequest with Cloud Jr. shows Barret's change to being "softer" as he explains that he was always hard on others and going after everything that ticked him off, making others suffer in the process. It makes sense why they show him and Yuffie reacting.

The other sidequests that show this "anger" issue are the Chocobo Billy ones with Yuffie in Nibelheim and the last one at the Gold Saucer with Tifa. The Yuffie one is more about the anger issue while the Tifa one is more about learning what happened in the past.

If you think about it, the only thing Cloud doesn't "remember" is being a normal Shinra foot-soldier, the one with motion-sickness (maybe the memory of him defeating Sephiroth from Remake is gone due to the whispers? He does react to the tubes in the Shina Mansion a bit).

The dialog Yuffie has about Chocobos are also noteworthy (since if we go by the symbols, Yuffie is the Moogle and Cloud is the Chocobo).

Btw, these two scenes are kinda similar:

Another "Yuffie represents the Moogle" hint is made at the Gold Saucer intro. Cait Sith summons a Cactuar, a Tonberry, and a Chocobo, but what about the Moogle? It's Yuffie since the moogle is on her pop star outfit. These four on the orphanage chalkboard in Remake. With the characters we've seen so far it may be like this:

Cactuar - Zack Tonberry - Sephiroth Chocobo - Cloud Moogle - Yuffie

The Tonberry King boss battle has MAI dialog that sounds similar to Sephiroth's dialog when he goes insane in the mansion basement. It's kinda fitting that this is a Yuffie sidequest and you need to steal his crown.

The Cactuar thing is Zack due to the "pose" which Cloud, Yuffie, and Red XIII also do in the last proto-relic quest. People know that's something Zack has done.

Every sidequest has it's own meaning. The one similar to Cloud's Dissidia story is the Barret one in Gongaga with the weaponsmith.

[arizariia]

I'm calling it now. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth is going to pull a Final Fantasy X and have Aerith live because Cloud is probably going to put himself in harm's way. Either he's going to block Masamune, push Aerith out of the way, or he's gonna get shish kabobed. Regardless, I think that's what's going to happen, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's the last option I mentioned. Instead of Aerith dying and most likely waking up in Zack's timeline, it's Cloud. However, Aerith or the whispers find a way to keep Cloud alive, but he's in a coma. You know like uh... Yeah...

Then Aerith becomes the party leader. Or you know no one gets harmed, but everyone is shocked and confused by Aerith since she knew what could happen but didn't tell anyone, leading to a lot of confused and hurt feelings as well as incredibly thick tension between her and Cloud since he was genuinely afraid of losing her.

If they go with the first idea I mentioned, I imagine there will also be a moment where Aerith has a direct confrontation with Sephiroth for what he did. But it's also for the best in Sephiroth's case that she lives as well. When Aerith died, she used the lifestream to stop Meteor since Holy was held back. Sephiroth isn't a stupid man. Considering that he seems aware of the original events and Advent Children, he knows killing her isn't the best idea. Also, she successfully summoned Holy before he killed her, so it's not like he stopped her from doing that. He knows he can hold back Holy, so that wouldn't be too much of a concern.

The third game, which I think will be called FFVII Reunion, will then be Cloud and Aerith trying to reunite with each other or something while trying to find a new way to stop Sephiroth, since you know, Holy is held back, and Aerith isn't dead this time.

[thefrostqueen]

Aerith, Death, and Sephiroth

Two Aeriths

Through various trailers, we have gathered that the Aerith in Zack’s timeline is in a coma, with Marlene ominously stating that when Aerith wakes up, a scary man (Sephiroth) will kill her. But more obviously, why is she asleep despite not looking injured? And why did she alone survive the tornado attack while Barret, Tifa, Jesse, and Wedge died? Zack is then seen sitting on the steps of the church, and Sephiroth makes a move to seemingly cut Zack down, while remarking “No, not you.” He is clearly looking for Aerith, but why is he bothering with another dimension’s Aerith in the first place?

And more interestingly, how does Marlene even know that will happen? Who told/showed her? From that scene in the new trailer alone, are we to believe that Sephiroth is attempting to kill Aerith in every dimension, or is there something deeper happening here? Why is Sephiroth so prominent in this section of the game in the first place, considering he wasn’t in the original?

A Driving Force

In December of 2020, Aerith’s MOCAP actress, Asuka Yoshikawa, made a post talking about how she had just finished a four-hour motion capture session with Sephiroth’s MOCAP actor. It was unclear whether this was the only session, or one of several. But based on this tweet, it seems Aerith and Sephiroth will have much more time directly interacting with each other in Rebirth than in Remake (and also in the original game)

https://x.com/asukayoshikawa/status/1342254416393428992?s=46&t=yqLOXI10UyvjbnqYzQDydg

A recent official interview by PlayStation with Yoshinori Kitase and Tetsuya Nomura supports and mostly confirms this. They discuss quote “reimagining” Aerith and Sephiroth as characters, citing their individual importance to the overall story. Kitase in particular acknowledges that Sephiroth was barely present in this section of the game in the original, but that in Rebirth, he is the quote “Driving force that pulls the story along.” They speak of him almost like they view him as the main protagonist.

Both legendary creatives emphasized one single thing however: further depth for both Aerith and Sephiroth. Nomura also stated that he believes players will respond differently to what happens regarding Aerith and Sephiroth’s fates, hinting at a potential divide of opinions from fans, as well as a very different outcome for the characters compared to the original.

No Longer Set in Stone

What excites me about all of this, is that there is so much more mystery surrounding Aerith’s death scene and Sephiroth’s role in the story at large, whereas it was fairly straightforward in the original. In the OG, Aerith was summoning Holy (the only force that can stop Meteor) when Sephiroth catches both her and Cloud by surprise and murders her. She dies and becomes more powerful, and through this Sephiroth is stopped.

In the Rebirth trailer however, Aerith is seen giving Cloud holy BEFORE the temple. As many have pointed out, Aerith giving Cloud holy means she has NO REASON to be at the temple. So why does she end up going there regardless? And Cloud doesn’t notice Sephiroth about to kill Aerith in the OG, but in the trailer we clearly see Cloud notice that Sephiroth is about to kill her, so he attempts to stop Sephiroth with the buster sword. But why would Sephiroth attempt to kill Aerith if she hasn’t summoned Holy yet?

Perhaps clarity lies in the fact that both Sephiroth and Aerith know how the events of the original FF7 play out. We are shown that Sephiroth’s intention is to change his fate by preventing his death, and doing so means killing Aerith. If this is the case however, then why did Sephiroth not immediately kill Aerith in Remake, despite knowing she summons holy to defeat him? Why wait?

There are honestly so many possibilities regarding both timelines and the fate of the two Aerith’s that it is maddening. One could live, the other could die. Or maybe they both die—perhaps Aerith’s death is an inevitable prime event in any timeline.

I will be on the edge of my seat when February 29th arrives!

[silver-wield]

The devs and these convoluted messy shit endings. 2 for 2. It’s like they remain mostly faithful then at the end just throw everything at the wall. Less is more sometimes. The OG handled everything at that moment so much better. I don’t give a damn about Aerith but that death was horrible. OG did it right. Sudden and final. She had an avengers endgame scene what the fuck lmao. Awful trash.

I'm over halfway through a chapter by chapter review, which is being done on a replay, but I did actually finish chapter 14 again last night and it's so much ass Idk where to start.

I'll get into it properly in a separate post, but pro tip for people messing with outfits, you wanna change Cloud back before you start that one. As hilarious as it is watching him fight shirtless, it's makes everything else so skeevy.

Oh but extra funny, no blood on Cloud's alt costumes, so when he's glitching between that whole sad happy crying not whatever tf was going on, he looks even more insane than he would in his regular uniform because you can't see any blood or tears on his face. I was fucking rolling with laughter I shit you not! 🤣🤣🤣

But yeah, in general, chapter 14 is a huge mess. To compare to ch18 of Remake, I'd say that made more sense.

But also to bring up a point in ch18 of Remake, Sephiroth talks about other worlds and how they all eventually die, and you see a clip of Zack taking the right path while the left disappears in that shitty my little pony rainbow sparkles garbage (I really hate that. They need to stop it) and in ch18 we see the arbiter of fate has an ability called "correction" where it changes the outcome of the battle so it survived. This is basically what the planet does with these choices, and while Sephiroth is a big fat liar about most things, this is the truth. The planet corrects the errant course and that pathway is reabsorbed into the planet to nourish it. So there's no alt timelines, just other choices that eventually go nowhere.

Anyway, it seemed both Sephiroth and Aerith were taking advantage of those pathways to kinda hop between them. Maybe she was trying to survive while he was cutting off any chance of that until we get to the final pathway where she's definitely dead.

I mean Cloud deflected the sword, but didn't, then she woke up, but died again, then she came back to get in the way (and what's with that stupid entrance like she's been gone for fifty years? She was dead for less than five fucking minutes. It was ridiculous and embarrassing. Does she think she's special?) then she's lying dead, then she's waking up again.

And by the end I'd also had enough of Cloud being crazy. I get it. We all get it. He's insane. Can he not be an embarrassing douchebag about it? Kinda felt like we'd got stuck with a Cloud from a different pathway and I was like "can we give him back and get the regular one returned to us?"

So I obviously have a lotta thoughts about chapter 14 🤣

Let's hope the end of part three isn't as much ass as the endings of part one and two have been 🤣

[planckstorytime]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth: A World Beyond Anger (Part Five)

V. A Generous Interpretation…

Ordinarily, I eschew theories and predictions about where an ongoing story might lead, because I prefer to withhold a holistic reading of a text until the text is… well, whole. But at the risk of doing exactly what the marketing team wants from me, I must make an exception. To be honest, I don’t actually believe that we’re dealing with alternate timelines or discrete universes in the traditional (i.e. dumb mass media) sense. Upon visiting Cosmo Canyon, a nameless NPC has some easily missed dialogue that sheds some light on how we’re meant to interpret what’s happening:

“So… my parents are no longer with us – here, that is – but I believe they’re still out there, on another plane. I’ve been reading a bunch of theories on this alternate world in the hope of going there someday. And over the course of my studies, I stumbled across a fascinating theory. It addressed the issue of what the lifestream is, arguing that spiritual energy is actually a manifestation of our knowledge and memories. Like I said, it’s a fascinating theory… but it’s incomplete. What about our hopes and dreams? We remember those, don’t we? So what if spiritual energy doesn’t distinguish between our real, lived memories and the unrealized desires buried deep in our hearts? What if coming into contact with that energy allowed us to ‘peer through the looking glass,’ so to speak? It’s just an idea, but… I hope to find the truth someday.”

A tagline for Rebirth is “What is fact and what is fiction?” While this cryptic ad copy definitely alludes to Cloud’s false memories, I suspect it also hints at the nature of these alternate worlds – namely, that they’re illusory.

The world we explore through Zack’s eyes doesn’t add up. Supposedly, all of the events of Remake occurred just prior to his arrival, but that doesn’t account for why he’s arrived several months later than he should have, or how he carries a comatose Cloud in tow. Biggs, who also seemingly died, likewise appears in this world. He remembers Cloud from his adventures in part one. As if this asynchronous timeline wasn’t enough, both Zack and Biggs mention that their internal clocks seem broken – they can’t tell how much time has passed since they arrived. Meanwhile, the world has suddenly withered without anyone noticing, and an ominous crack of doom looms in the sky. Far from the radiant golden glow that we saw in the closing cutscene of the first installment, this Midgar evokes a fanciful dream morphed into a nightmare.

I believe that these separate takes on reality are manifestations within the lifestream – demi-realities given the illusion of form through the echo of subconscious desires. Keeping with the Freudian theme, we can surmise that such desires materialize as dreams. Aerith likely left some sort of metaphysical impression when she zapped the plot ghosts at the end of Remake. Everyone who shows up in this nonsensical dream world are people that she knew, pantomiming their lives through the ever darkening scenario. Just as we populate our dreams with the people we know in the waking world, I believe most of the individuals in these worlds are projections based on how Aerith views them, acting as she unconsciously directs them. The exceptions are Zack and Biggs, who appear more like errant ghosts, drawn in by her unfulfilled desires for their survival. If we compare this evidence to the narrative’s broader conflict between the pleasure principle and the death drive, we can deduce the following: To deny death is to master desire; to master desire is to live in a dream.

The original story’s lifestream sequence provides us with the smoking gun for this explanation – the presence of the same golden rift across the sky that we see in both Zack’s world and Cloud’s perspective during the ending cutscene. Within the demi-realities, this crack in the fabric of the universe portends the coming apocalypse. But perhaps it really symbolizes the fleeting succor that these delusions provide before crumbling to the inescapable truth? Fate seems determined to correct these worlds (perhaps reflective of the grieving process), as different iterations still end with Biggs dead and Zack facing an onslaught of Shinra gunfire.

The previously linked chart of the “timelines” posits that Cloud creates a new timeline where he saves Aerith during the finale. As explained, I disagree with this being a logical, causality-driven event, and suggest that it’s instead fundamentally illogical. Aerith’s apparent survival comes from Cloud’s denial of reality – his inability to cope with failure and loss. Whether she’s a projection on a transitory plane or entirely a figment of Cloud’s imagination, the point stands that it’s an unnatural, unhealthy, artificial existence. I do not think she is alive in both body and spirit somewhere, or that the confluence and sundering of worlds somehow sends one spirit to the afterlife and leaves the other alive and conscious. If that’s the case, then that is extremely stupid, and would paint the party’s inability to see what Cloud sees as a deficiency on their part. Cloud is not red-pilled; he does not see an omniverse while all the plebeians stare at shadows on the wall of a cave. Making him perceptive of real, tangible worlds beyond normal observation would devastate his character arc, which hinges on him accepting his weakness and shattering his delusions.

With all due respect to other theorists, I believe that the rainbow light denotes not the splitting of timelines, but instead points of interference within the lifestream. We see the rainbows appear when summoning entities from materia, when interacting with lifesprings, and even when transitioning into the Fort Condor minigame (consider the authenticity of those literal toys in relation to the memory-images of people in these alternate worlds). I can see why some players interpret the rainbow as a path of divergence, since it recalls the image of light passing through a prism. But I think that rainbows can have many meanings: unity, inclusion, hope, etc. For this reading, though, I’d like to draw attention to what rainbows really are – tricks of light, illusions toward which humans commonly ascribe superstitious awe. From Biblical covenants to viral internet videos that you haven’t thought of in over a decade, rainbows captivate onlookers, who assign them phenomenal importance. Rainbows, however, lack substance – they cannot be touched, they cannot give you that promised pot of gold. They provide temporary bliss and then fade, as all insubstantial novelties do. Seeing one in an oil spill doesn’t mean the environment’s not in danger. Thus, I think Rebirth’s use of rainbows factors into ideas of perception, delusions, and coping mechanisms.

If there’s any validity to this interpretation, then where should the story go from here? Well, Kitase said in an interview with Vandal that, although the final entry in the trilogy will culminate in a happy ending, it won’t be “sunshine and rainbows.” Perhaps that’s a hint, perhaps it’s a Freudian slip, or perhaps I am projecting my own desires onto my reading. Regardless, I think the dissolution of these dream purgatories is the only satisfying way to close this plotline. The worlds seem condemned to perish soon after their nascence. They’re only born when fate’s boundaries are breached, which can’t be an everyday occurrence. Cloud even describes the planet as “screaming” in agony as a response to this fission and fusion.

Cloud and Aerith’s dream worlds seemingly emerge as wishful fabrications where their loved ones live on, but the latter goes on to explain that death is a natural part of life:

“Y’know… If you think about it, life and death are just two sides of the same coin. Our bodies may disappear when we die, but our spirits still live on. We return to the planet, rejoin the lifestream, and – in time – give rise to new life.”

Aerith rebukes Sephiroth’s desire to forge an everlasting world, claiming there’s no such thing as “forever.” Cheating death comes naturally for him, and so the conflict won’t end until he, like everyone, accepts his mortality. Far ahead of him, the apparition of Aerith at the end refers to her current location as a “second home” – alluding to the multiple references of death as a “homecoming” and confirming her acceptance of her passing.

Cloud’s repression has taken root, and he must learn the truth in order to dissolve the false reality that he’s conjured. Through a veil of static interference immediately following her death, the player can see Cloud silently mouthing the words that he initially uttered there in the 1997 title. I believe he gives the same speech here, too, only to erase it from his conscious memory and escape into his delusions. As with Zack, so with Aerith.

This is why I really appreciate what they did with Tifa in the Gongaga section. At first, I was hesitant toward the premature revelation about her mother’s death, but now I see it as a potential setup for an emotionally resonant scene in part three. Cloud and Tifa will inevitably fall into the lifestream, where she will help him reconstruct his memories and accept his true self, as dictated by the source material. However, I think now she will also aid him in overcoming his grief about Aerith.

“You saved me before; now it’s my turn.”

Tifa says this to Cloud after recounting their shared childhood trauma. Unknowingly marching toward her death, Tifa believed that her departed mother was waiting for her across the Mount Nibel. Cloud intercepted her and tried to free her from her delusions. I hope that we see her repay him in the final game – she will bring him back to reality and help him to move on. The dead are gone forever. The best way to honor their memory is not repression, or regression, or Reunion – but progression, living for the future, and pacifying that drive toward death (inevitable though it may be).

In the end, Aerith says it best:

“I get it, I really do. Knowing that the people we love aren’t really gone? It doesn’t make it any easier to let them go. It still hurts. So we can’t just think of it as a ‘homecoming.’ ‘Cause it’s not that simple. We’ve all experienced pain. We all have our regrets. What we’ve done – what’s been done to us – that’s set in stone. The past is forever. But the future – even if it has been written – can be changed.”

Should the writing of the third entry opt to follow this path, rather than the full-on comic book multiverse option, I’ll find it more agreeable – maybe even moving.

Something is still missing, though. For some reason, those assurances still aren’t enough for me.

FULL ESSAY: https://planckstorytime.wordpress.com/2024/05/11/final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-a-world-beyond-anger/

[iaintyourbro]

The New Red Herrings: Biggs and Zack and How Avalanche Tells Us the LTD is Dead

Biggs and Zack are seemingly alive at the end of FFVII Remake Part 1 - so what does that mean? Will they live throughout the story? Maybe they’ll be like Wedge and escape death initially, only to be forced to face it shortly after?

There’s also interesting similarities on the death scenes of Biggs and Zack, A while ago I took screenshots of the “death” scene of Biggs and thought it was interesting how they had Biggs touch Cloud’s head and also made him promise something. 

And how are all these things connected to the LTD? 

Now, clearly, neither Biggs or Jessie had as dramatic of a death as Zack or Aerith. We actually see the initial injury or incident that causes each of them to die. Cloud comes upon Biggs while he’s already sitting down injured. Cloud and Tifa come to Jessie after she’s under the rubble and try to save her. 

We know Cloud pretty much loses it when Zack dies. He collapses mentally. He’s already been through enough shit to fill a lifetime, and now his only friend, his best friend, and the guy who saved his life, dies trying to get them back to Midgar. 

Why Zack is Important to Cloud

Relationship wise, Cloud obviously had a much deeper connection to Zack. At the point that Biggs dies, he doesn’t know any of that, but I think his death definitely triggers something in him. Biggs saw through Cloud’s front. We know Biggs dealt with the kids at the Leaf House, and most likely acted like a volunteer in the Big Brother program. He tells Cloud he’s got a lot in common with the kids at the Leaf House.

Zack had Cloud take on the responsibility to be his living legacy. Of course we all know he shuts down about five minutes later. Biggs had Cloud promise that this wouldn’t all be for nothing. In both cases, it doesn’t work out. He forgets what Zack told him and the Sector 7 plate still falls. 

Zack’s death has a major impact on Cloud - it’s ultimately what breaks him. It also gives us these really sad moments of somebody who’s already been through so much and is breaking now. 

Cloud is upset about Biggs. He was becoming his friend. The three Avalanche members really did accept Cloud and tried to be his friend. He was included with them - in most cases. Of course there’s the Avalanche party that he’s kicked out of (mind you - he does this to himself by acting like an ass to Barret and them) and then during Chapter 4, he’s separated to go steal Jessie’s dad’s ID. 

Ultimately, though, we know that Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie all like Cloud. They seem to see through the hard exterior pretty easily. So Cloud loses another person in his life.

The ending of FFVII Remake takes an interesting turn. Anybody who played OG or CC knows what is supposed to happen to Biggs and Zack.

But, Remake’s ending seems to imply that they survive the event that was supposed to take them out. 

Did Zack survive the last stand? Is this a case of the Last Stand in CC being combined with OG where as they walk away, Zack ends up getting shot anyway? 

So we also see Biggs.... wait, wrong picture.

That’s the right one. We get a shot of Charlie Sheen Biggs waking up in a bed in what looks like some type of either infirmary or large room. In OG, we know that all three of the Avalanche members die during the Sector 7 plate fall. In Remake, the only one we get confirmation on is Jessie, and that’s only in the Chapter description. 

Wedge we know survives until the Shinra building, where the Whispers ultimately take him out since he defied fate. 

So, what will happen to Biggs?

The biggest thing talked about seems to be the ending. Zack surviving created a lot of buzz. Is there a second timeline? Is he going to just simply walk another 10 feet and get shot in the back? Did her survive in the first place? Why does Stamp look different on that bootleg chip bag?

Will we have a beautiful Zerith reunion? 

In the OG, the Love Triangle illusion was the red herring. This was mostly to trick and distract the player to focus on something, so later they can destroy you with major twists. It also was used to get the player to like Aerith so her death would be more impactful. In addition, it makes the whole Northern Crater confession from Cloud about Tifa’s opinion being the only one that matters a slam in your face of holy shit what is going on?!

At this point, everybody and their mother knows Aerith dies. It’s not something that was kept a secret. It’s referenced in various materials. The one thing not openly referenced is what’s going on with Cloud. They never reference the Lifestream, the fake persona, or anything outside of the OG and Ultimanias. I think this is a shame since it’s such an important part of his character arc, but I get that they want to try and leave the element of surprise in play.

I think everybody would agree that the moment you find out Cloud was just a grunt that was WITH Zack during the Nibelheim incident is super powerful. I still get chills all these years later. Letting this be a well known thing would take away the element of surprise from new fans. Of course, people can go online and read blogs like this one and know all of this, but for somebody - especially future generations - who may just be looking for a new game to play, you’d want this element of surprise to stay in tact. 

We can’t use Aerith as the only red herring anymore, and we can’t use the love triangle. For many reasons. Everybody knows about it and the love triangle was a poor choice for something like this because some people missed the point completely.

Now, FFVII Twitter is always on fire. 

Also, even though the Lifestream and Cloud’s true identity are pretty well kept secrets in terms of printed media, most of the people who played FFVII Remake played the original game, they know what happens. People who were new and played Remake first most likely went and bought OG and played it. So now they know what happens. 

They knew this, or they probably wouldn’t have shown Cloud in this state, but even for those who don’t, the alternate timeline theory is born. Biggs enhances this theory because he’s alive too. How can Cloud walk past them AND be carried by Zack in some catatonic state?

It keeps us distracted. They want us to think that fate can be changed. In the case of Zack, they’re even saying that the past can be changed. 

Ultimately, whatever they do, it’ll be shocking to most players. I do trust that the devs aren’t being deceitful when they say they are going to keep the major plot points the same and FFVII will be FFVII going forward. Part 1 keeps major plot points but adds substance to a lot of things. They took out unnecessary parts and enhanced others. They also removed a lot of the love triangle stuff. 

Another striking thing with all of this is the Jessie factor. The Chapter screen tells us she died - it only says Biggs was seriously injured. That hasn’t stopped speculation.

The ending shows gloves on the table next to Biggs’ bed and a lot people said oh it’s Jessie’s left glove! And it does appear that it is. There’s only one glove. To me, this seems like they recovered her body and were able to pull of some personal affects of hers to leave with Biggs. Both articles look damaged or faded. 

Faded could mean they’ve been sitting in the sun for a while. The incident happened a few days ago, though we don’t have a definitive time on when we’re shown Biggs. This could be a future look.

They also could simply be damaged and full of dust from the plate collapse. 

It is implied in Chapter 4 if you listen to the conversation between Jessie’s mom and the gang that Biggs and Jessie have a different relationship than Wedge and Jessie. 

I have some thoughts on what this may mean:

Biggs is Jessie’s BFF and her mom likes him.

Jessie and Biggs dated at one point and decided to not tell her mom that they no longer are or that its casual.

Jessie’s mom was hounding Jessie about finding a man so she picked Biggs to be her pretend boyfriend and he agreed.

Biggs and Jessie are secretly dating and only her mom knows.

Which one do I think it is? Well, knowing Jessie, I can definitely see her doing #3. I can absolutely see her acting like Biggs is her boyfriend to get her mom off her back. I think #1 and #2 are also huge possibilities. #4 is far fetched, but they could cover it up by having Jessie flirt relentlessly with Cloud and appear to be single. 

Some people think that Jessie will end up at the Gold Saucer singing. Personally, I really hope not. If they keep a bunch of people alive (even if it’s for a short amount of time), it really takes away one of the major themes of FFVII which is death and moving on. In addition, I think it’s too many people they’d need to kill off later. Jessie is a very popular character, so I hope they don’t take that as an incentive to change that aspect of the story. 

Aerith’s funeral and Jessie’s death are similar as well, so I think it is foreshadowing some things. 

We get a princess style carry here. Aerith and Jessie both get these in Remake. Jessie’s second one ends in her death. Will Aerith get a second princess carry by Cloud? Will it be to take her to her final resting place?

Maybe she won’t even go to the lake - maybe to the sky?

We know Tifa was super upset in OG, and they really don’t touch on it much. We only see her run away crying after this moment. You learn in Case of Tifa that she’s really upset about, but a lot of people don’t read Case of Tifa, so they only know this scene. 

We know that she gets very upset over Jessie’s death.

I think Aerith’s death will be much worse. 

It seems Jessie’s death is a reference to how Aerith’s death was handled in the OG.

Will it be handled the same? Maybe. I think they’re going to make it seem like she’s going to be okay, and then boom.

So the ending gives us hope that we have two friends that are alive. It makes us think that we can save Aerith. I do think Wedge’s death towards the end and comments that Red XIII made in Chapter 17 may also be hinting towards the fact that you cannot change the past and you cannot change fate. 

Over on Discord, @anesuna​ brought up a good point about Wedge’s cats. Biggums survives the plate collapse along with Wedge. The other two cats - Reggie and Smalls - sadly perish (::cries a lot::). This could also be a reference that Biggs survived while Jessie and Wedge do not. 

So what about the LTD?

I think this is a heavy reference to the old OG love triangle. Don’t fall for it! They’re warning players now instead of wanting them to fall for it. 

Why do I say this? Aerith seemed to think the love triangle was fun. Thing is, Cloud wasn’t all there at this point, so it was just an illusion. Since players didn’t seem to get that the first time, they’re going to make it clear now. There were a lot of aspects they seemed to take from Aerith and give to Jessie. Overly flirty (with Jessie they added thirsty) and being overly childish at times. Aerith in remake is still somewhat childish, but not completely.

Oblivious Cloud is Oblivious. Yeah, he was oblivious in OG that Aerith and Tifa had feelings for him. He has no idea what Wedge is talking about now. Earlier in this same conversation he thinks that Wedge is telling him not to come around because people will gossip about Jessie being in Avalanche, but the player knows really what he’s referring to...

I think this is probably a reference to the Gold Saucer date because of the stage part. I take things at face value and don’t really dig too deep, but I think this exchange with Wedge is supposed to tell the player not to fall for these false loves early in the game.

It’s brought up again during Aerith’s resolution scene.

Earlier Wedge said not to fall for Jessie’s trick, because it was a game to her. It wasn’t real love. Aerith is now telling her that if Cloud thinks he falls in love with her, it’s not real. 

We have two separate instances in the game where they’re telling you to beware of the false love. It’s two times the word love is used. 

After all of this, the ending presents us with two guys who should be dead that appear to be alive. One of them is directly connected to Aerith.

This was their way of trying to shut down the LTD and replace it with different red herrings. Will it work as well as the LTD? Well, it seems that the majority of FFVII Remake fans have talked about the ending.

Yes, a lot of people talk about the LTD, but I think the majority of players are more interested overall in what happens next and what’s up with Zack. I think the majority of the fandom is also ready for the LTD to officially be dead so we can actually focus on everything else and stop the madness. 

It’ll never fully stop, but at least it’ll be clear for anybody who plays the game and alleviate the bulk of the chaos. 

Say hello to your new red herrings: Biggs and Zack. 

Say bye to the LTD.

[lany-d-flow]

Whisper Talk: Going Against Alternate Timeline Theories with a Theory, and Answering Questions Saying Otherwise.

Those who look with clouded eyes see nothing but shadows. -Sephiroth, Final Fantasy 7 Remake.

SPOILER WARNING

Pressing “Keep Reading” will bring you into spoiler territory for, well... Final Fantasy 7 Compilation and Remake, so this is your warning, all right buddy?

Also, this is one person’s interpretation of another work. What I predict may very well turn out to be untrue, and if you disagree with my prediction then that’s totally fine! (If you’d like, we could chat about it).

But honestly, I have spent the last few months thinking about this game in an unhealthy manner. I think having all of these whispers inside of my head with my frustration getting bigger is not going to move anything forward. So it’s time to wake up, get up, get out there and write thoughts about what is actually going on with Final Fantasy 7 Remake, while trying to clear up misconceptions that may be leading people astray. Perhaps the latter is the intention of the developers. If it is? Well, let’s move past the clouds and find the sunlight. 

All right, let’s mosey into this nonsense.

It’s been months since the release of Final Fantasy 7 Remake. After a long five-year wait for many fans, we got a piece of the story on the Playstation 4 in March and April 2020. It was exciting to see the capital of Final Fantasy 7, Midgar, be brought to life with state-of-the-art graphics. Treading through mako reactors, Sector 7 and Sector 5, the nasty Wall Market, Shinra HQ, hearing conversations of lively NPCs, exploring the subtle easter eggs and symbolism through visual storytelling... Goodness, so much of what this game had to offer was a delight! The developers put their heart and soul into fleshing out a section of Final Fantasy 7 that was, at most, 6 hours long. This level of detail cannot go unnoticed, and I’m sure it’s made everyone excited to see the reimagining of Gaia when we receive future installments!!!!

Oh, but wait... the developers introduced a new monster called Whispers, otherwise known as Arbiters of Fate, and... What purpose do they serve?! Why are these things in Final Fantasy 7 when they never had a role in the original game? Based on everything we saw in the story, they seem to be making sure the story of Final Fantasy 7 runs exactly as it’s supposed to. Without these ghosts, the story will not be 1:1. To make things worse, we have Sephiroth who’s from the future?! No wonder these Whispers are here, Sephiroth’s trying to rewrite history because everything he has tried before failed him!

So based on what we saw in Final Fantasy 7 Remake, the developers decided to create a metaphor for the fanbase, and since we defeated ‘destiny,’ we’ve defeated the fanbase’s say in where the story goes, thereby giving the developers permission to change the story the way they want it. Wow, this is pathetic on Square Enix’s part. Final Fantasy 7 is an amazing story with layers and layers of complex themes, why would they try to form it into something else? Now we’re going to have time travel and alternate timelines in the plot and Sephiroth seems unstoppable now. Heck, the developers are probably going to make sure impactful moments in Final Fantasy 7 do not happen, so Zack and Aerith are probably going to survive. And they’re also ditching the Compilation? Can these people be trusted? 

Final Fantasy 7 Remake is ruined!!!

Still with me? Well, this is just some of the talk that I’ve heard based on the execution of Final Fantasy 7 Remake’s plot. I won’t try to list every possible thing people are talking about, but I think we get the idea of the impression that our game’s ending put on a lot of players. So I wanted to give my input on what I believe is actually going on with the story, as well as answer many questions popping up about the circumstances of our game’s characters.

So, do I think the developers are changing the story?

Short Answer: No, at least not in the way that many people think. They’re “changing” the story by putting in new elements, moments that tie with the rest of the Compilation, but the main plot points (Overarching plot, the main crisis, the internal plot, the emotional climax, etc.) still need to happen. This series is more than 2 decades old, and with time it has received: a movie, 2 books, a sequel, 2 prequels, and now a remake with existing materials to tie into the game. 

Long Answer: All right, if you’re still with me, thank you. I will do my best to explain all of what’s going on. I’ll give my input via understanding how the FF7 Universe works; in other words, what the Whispers are, how the Whispers work, how they’ve actually always been apart of FF7 and are now receiving an expanded role, and how Sephiroth and Aerith showing meta behavior makes sense due to the power that the Planet has given to the Arbiters of Fate (exposure = visions out of context). I will also be answering questions that one may bring up as proof of an alternate timeline/story change and argue what their purpose may actually be.

So, let's Talk about A Whisper

Wait a minute...

So, let's talk about the Whispers.

Let’s start by explaining what the Whispers are, what function they serve to the Planet, and how the Planet creates them in the first place:

Whispers are souls that act as arbiters of fate and have been a part of the Planet for as long as the Planet has existed. They know the fate of the Planet from beginning to end, and their function is to make sure that a specific destiny runs its course. They all unite under the will of the Planet, just like the Sephiroth Clones all act under the will of Sephiroth, which is probably the reason why they were given a cloaky look: the Whispers' function parallels the Sephiroth Clones' function and both act under the authority of something else. They cannot be seen by everyone, and to actually see their physical manifestation, you need to either be 1) deeply connected with the Planet, or 2) receive some form of physical contact from someone who has a strong connection to the Planet. This is established early in Chapter 2 of Final Fantasy 7 Remake. Cloud meets Aerith for the first time, and at first glance she seems to be blown away by the wind. After Cloud and Aerith have an exchange and Aerith gives Cloud a flower, immediately after this we are greeted with an illusion of Sephiroth tormenting Cloud and more importantly, Aerith touching Cloud, allowing him to see the Whispers floating around the street. This follows the logic of my two points, as Aerith is a half-Cetra who’s been receiving visions of the past and future for years (her mural of symbolism in her Shinra HQ room was drawn when she received a vision as a child, though she does not understand the full context of what it means), and of course she ended up giving permission for Cloud to see the Planet’s protectors in action.

So how do the Whispers make sure destiny happens as intended?

Well, they do so by constantly observing the actions of the Planet’s people, sometimes in sight, sometimes not. If something happened that is off course, the Whispers immediately act to correct the course of said issue. We see this multiple times in the story. Some examples include: Aerith trying to leave the street where she meets Cloud, then proceeding to leave the street after meeting Cloud, following the Whispers’ intentions; Jessie getting injured in Sector 7 because destiny needs to make sure Cloud goes on the next AVALANCHE mission. If this didn’t happen, then Aerith and Cloud probably wouldn’t have met again; Surrounding the debris on top of Jessie to ensure her death takes place on top of the Sector 7 Tower (I’ll cover the speculation on her “survival” later); stopping Cloud from remembering everything about the Shinra Research Lab; stopping Hojo from revealing the truth of Cloud’s past (no way in Hell are they going to let the internal conflict unfold this early); reviving Barret from the stab wound that the Sephiroth remnant gave him; lastly, pushing Wedge down the Shinra HQ tower to ensure his death happens. Destined events either eventually happened, or they got delayed. This implies that the Whispers are nigh-omnipresent beings, especially given how many they are and how they were able to surround Midgar entirely, and their part of correcting destiny follows the flow of a river. As Red XIII puts it, “The flow of the great river that is the Planet, from inception to oblivion… For it is the will of the Planet itself”.

Cool. So how are the Whispers born? Where do they come from?

It’s actually a pretty straightforward explanation, and Aerith tells us in Chapter 18: Destiny’s Crossroads. Before the Whispers became Whispers, they were “Those born into this world. Who lived and who died. Who returned. They’re howling in pain.” This adds on to what Sephiroth said a moment ago: “All born are bound to her.” All Whispers were once living people, animals, etc. And all that are given life on the Planet are bound by something like a contract: You get made into an image and are given a physical life. In exchange, once that time’s up, you must return to the Lifestream and become a part of the Planet, being one of many who follow her will. You’re born, you live, you die, and you serve another purpose in a collective of spirits who are now tasked with making sure the flow of destiny is as it should be. By following all of this, we can conclude that 1) Everyone who lives on Gaia could eventually become a Whisper, and 2) since Whispers are a part of the Planet, they are formed from the Lifestream, the Planet’s lifeblood. This leads us into the next question...

How do the Whispers know the course of Destiny from start to finish?

Great question! The logical explanation to how they know is quite simple: the properties of the Lifestream. The Whispers are made out of Lifestream, and that gives them knowledge of the Planet’s destiny. I argue it is not farfetched to make this claim, as the Lifestream has shown time and again what it is capable of. Infact, let’s make an analogy of Lifestream manifestations via state of matter.

Lifestream: Its Three States of Matter and their Benefits and Side Effects

Mako is the liquid form of the Lifestream, Materia is a solid form of the Lifestream, while the regular Lifestream itself can be most equivalent to something of a gas/plasma, at least one that can be seen. Throughout Final Fantasy 7 we’ve seen what all of these forms can do. Mako is an extremely powerful energy source that powers all of Midgar through reactors, and is also what SOLDIERs are bathed in to possibly receive superhuman strength; Materia are jewels capable of all kinds of powerful magic; summoning fire, lightning, ice, creating shields, copying abilities of other living beings, healing, elevating other materia abilities, and most notably summon manifestations of powerful beings (Bahamut, Shiva, Ifrit, Odin, Knights of the Round). While the Lifestream itself? That’s all the souls of the planet with a consciousness that follows the Planet’s will. Some can appear as a physical manifestation, but they’re not quite solid, which is how Cloud’s buster sword moves through the Whispers as if he didn’t cut through anything. Use of the Lifestream can also create projections (think Aerith’s Chapter 14 resolution), allow access into someone’s subconscious under certain circumstances, and of course, give people visions of the past and future without any context as to how those events happen(ed).

All three forms of the Lifestream have side effects, too.

Materia can degrade the vitality and strength of the user. Think of it as a trade-off for borrowing the Planet’s lifeblood in the form of a jewel.

Mako can cause extremely intense mental breakdowns and break the psyche of those without strong mental resilience, which is why Cloud was unable to make it into SOLDIER. But he eventually received Mako exposure anyway. What happened? Oh yeah, he went into a comatose state not once, not twice, but THREE times. First during experimentation, second when he arrived at Midgar before Tifa bumped into him, and when he fell into a pool of Mako and washed up on the shore of Mideel.

Meanwhile, Lifestream side effects are non-contextual visions, loss of sanity similar to Mako (think Tifa before she entered Cloud’s subconscious), and if the Lifestream has something in it, infection! That’s how Geostigma came to be: Jenova cells from Sephiroth, Jenova, and the remnants were floating in the Lifestream, and when the latter destroyed Meteor, it also exposed humans to Jenova cells, turning into a severe disease that is deadliest toward hosts with emotional fragility. This is why Cloud has a “Geostigma episode” in Advent Children when he runs into an injured Tifa.

Even with all these side effects, the benefits are far too great to ignore. All this power from the Lifestream is why Sephiroth and Jenova wanted to siphon it for themselves in the first place. By siphoning the Lifestream resisting side effects, one can receive unparalleled powers. Sephiroth himself said it in the original game: 

“By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life form, a new existence. Melding with the Planet… I will cease to exist as I am now. Only to be reborn as a god to rule over every soul.”

Notice how the last quote aligns with what Sephiroth said in the Edge of Creation about the Nebula? 

“Our world will become a part of it… one day.” 

We’ll come back to that statement, I promise. But for now, based on everything I’ve told you, here’s what I think is going on in Final Fantasy 7 Remake:

Sephiroth is not from the future. His exposure to the Lifestream for the last 5 years gave him the side effect of non-contextual visions. Among these visions, he probably saw his master plan fail. Eventually he realizes that the reason he has these visions is because of the Whispers and more specifically, the Planet’s Weapon Arbiter. The Whispers are fighting against Sephiroth as he’s gained both a rough understanding of the future and the Lifestream’s powers by siphoning it up. So, his new master plan? Defeat the Arbiters of Fate and THEN continue with his original plan. Sephiroth being omnipresent makes sense given his control over Jenova and her shapeshifting, S cells that allow him to puppetize clones and Cloud, and being in the Lifestream basically giving him more power with one form of that being omnipresence. What’s going to lead to his downfall is ultimately his arrogance: he probably thinks that just stopping the Whispers is enough for him to win. So while the physical manifestation of fate is gone, Sephiroth still needs to meet the same criteria to win: get the Black Materia to summon Meteor, his ticket to siphon up all the Planet’s Lifestream, which means he also needs Cloud to give him the Black Materia, which then means that eventually Aerith will have to summon Holy and eventually become one with the Lifestream to beat Meteor.

See how all of this comes together without time travel theories that go off on insane tangents? It’s established that the Whispers know the course of destiny from past, present and future. But WHERE did it say that they can travel through time? WHERE did it say that Sephiroth can travel through time with the Lifestream? That kind of power would be an enormous retcon to the story and the functions of Gaia, and it would also lead to a really convoluted plot that can deviate from the main themes of the story (trust me, some theories out there are wild). We do know that Whispers are in a singularity and it moves like a river, which as @silver-wield cleverly put in a post about the story of FF7R, translates to:

The arbiters of fate issued a correction to Wedge and made him fall out of the window in the Shinra building. Which means fate cannot be altered, merely delayed, which then leads to a more painful end for not accepting that fate.

...Or perhaps shuffled up with ultimately the same necessary outcome, because the river of destiny was put on a different course but is still heading to the same destination. There are multiple works in the compilation that the writers and developers would like to tie together to the main story. What’s a way for them to execute this? By making a metaphor for the OG storyline and by beating it giving them permission to add new things? From a certain point of view, sure, but the developers never needed permission to do this in the first place. But the side effect of beating the physical manifestation of destiny was likely shuffling parts of the story of Final Fantasy 7, prequels all the way to the chronological sequels. One can make a case for this based on the explosion felt at Midgar when the Arbiter and Sephiroth were defeated in the Singularity. The glitters of light could also reflect this change. From all this I argue freedom came to be, and characters from the Compilation might make an appearance during the main story such as Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo. However, no matter what changes are present, the outcome will be the same. Cloud is not properly himself yet; he still thinks he made it into SOLDIER, he gets slight interferences from Jenova throughout the story (example: Cloud’s hand twitching when against Sephiroth at the Edge of Creation), he has the Buster Sword but still doesn’t remember who its original owner was, so his unreliable narration, downfall and emotional climax still need to happen. Aerith is the only character who can summon Holy and the only character who can call forth the Lifestream, and the only way she can call forth the Lifestream is by becoming one with it. How can she do this? There’s only one way: Death. Sorry guys, but if both Sephiroth and Aerith have prophetic visions of the future, there’s a chance that both know what must be done for themselves to get the upper hand. Sephiroth still wants to siphon up the Lifestream and become an omnipotent God, and the best way for him to do this? Summon Meteor. What does he need for this? The Black Materia. Who does he manipulate into giving him the Black Materia at the Northern Crater? Cloud.

My point from all this is that there are specific beats that need to happen to move the plot forward, no matter what new things they add from the Compilation. Using a different crisis for the overarching plot that isn’t Meteor is a retcon to the story, and why advertise Meteor and have it as the centerpiece of artworks and the title screen if you’re not going to use it in the first place? That’s just… really strange. We can add things in the middle of the plot to flesh out the main themes of a story while staying faithful to the outcomes. Adding something entirely different as a crisis like time travel in a game that has never been about time travel is out of place, unnecessary, and people are placing way too much faith in this being true while not looking at the bigger picture and function of Final Fantasy 7’s power tools. I believe the developers want you to think that the story is changing, that a happier outcome is in store for everyone. This all works with what Final Fantasy 7 did for many players in the first place: subvert expectations by placing us in an illusion with an unreliable narrative. We assumed Cloud made it into SOLDIER until we found out he never made it into SOLDIER and created a facade to conceal the truth that he was afraid to face. We thought Aerith was the love interest when the game kept making us appreciate her perky attitude until she ended up dying and then we discover in the Lifestream Sequence that Cloud’s romantic feelings, his whole reason for fighting, was for Tifa. We thought Shinra was the main antagonist of the game until shortly after going through Midgar, the main antagonist is Sephiroth. We thought we were fighting Sephiroth throughout the game until we find out that the real Sephiroth was encased in a crystal sucking up the Lifestream. We don’t actually fight him until the very end when he merges with Jenova and the Lifestream into Bizarro Sephiroth and Safer Sephiroth.

See where I’m going with all of this? The developers want to continue using red herrings and playing the theme of illusion by using different methods. The old methods will not work anymore, so they have to find a new way to subvert expectations in a way that gets us confused, excited, and uncertain what will happen until we actually play through the next installments. When that time comes, be prepared to get your heartstrings pulled, because reality hits our characters hard, just like it hits us hard. Think Biggs, Zack, Aerith are going to survive, and that Sephiroth is travelling through time to accomplish his devious tasks? Well, think again.

Now that we’ve gotten this far into this Whisper Talk, there are a load of questions I will need to address. So without further ado, Let’s mosey!!!

How is Sephiroth not from the future? His one-winged form from Advent Children Complete was shown in the final boss fight, the boss map looks eerily similar to Edge, and we saw multiple Sephiroths throughout the story. The game is heavily implying that Sephiroth is from the future and he wants to try to achieve victory a second time.

Well, for starters, First Class SOLDIERs having wings has been a thing for a while. Sephiroth was not the only SOLDIER to have a wing. As Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core showed us, Sephiroth’s comrades, Angeal and Genesis, were able to grow wings at will. They had different cells (G cells) which gave them a different ability, make copies of themselves, rather than control others who share their cells, sure, but that is NOT stopping any of them from growing wings at will. It’s something used across the board for all three of these really powerful SOLDIERs and it’s no surprise that this time around, they want to show Sephiroth using more of his abilities throughout the game.

Also, Sephiroth having one wing is nothing new. It’s part of his Safer form and is named on his track, One-Winged Angel. So, as an homage, they wanted the villain of the game to use a wing during his fight in Advent Children.

There’s also another way we can explain this. Sephiroth formed a body of his image in Advent Children thanks to Kadaj. And what purpose does Kadaj serve? He’s a strengthened remnant embodying Sephiroth’s cruelty. In other words, he’s another puppet Sephiroth can manipulate. And he uses Kadaj’s body + Jenova’s head to form his image. A clone and Jenova cells, or just straight up Jenova, allow him to shapeshift as that’s one of Jenova’s trademark abilities. So using this as an implication of time travel doesn’t add up.

When it comes to Sephiroth’s 70 alternative accounts, each of them have a straightforward explanation, including the one that confuses most people. Here we go, according to the FF7R Ultimania:

An illusion only Cloud can see:

Cloud has S cells injected into him. The same S cells are also Jenova cells. Jenova cells allow hosts to read the memories of those nearby, inherit the memories of other hosts, and give Sephiroth shapeshifting and puppeting abilities on those who have S cells. This is how Cloud created his SOLDIER facade thanks to Zack’s injection, similar memories and instinct to hide from the truth. What’s likely going on here is Sephiroth is able to make Cloud hallucinate thanks to said S cells, hence why it’s an illusion ONLY Cloud can see. We saw this during the Nibelheim flashback, meeting Aerith for the first time, after the Sector 7 Plate collapse when he was behind Tifa. This is another way of showing Sephiroth’s omnipresent power.

Also, if we're going to get really specific about the properties of Jenova cells, we can look at a source like FF7 Ultimania Omega:

Jenova's mimic ability Jenova has a mimic ability which allows it to read the memories and feelings of others, then adjust its appearance, speech and behaviour accordingly to imitate what it has seen. Jenova once used this ability to get close to the Ancients and infect them with its virus, which killed many of them.

This ability is not limited solely to Jenova itself, for those who have its cells within them passes it as well, though in an incomplete form. Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered, he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal"; this was because of the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for himself.

And there you go. Jenova's signature abilities are shapeshifting and illusion. It's mentioned in her backstory, It's shown in her boss battles, it's shown in Jenova-infected hosts, and it's even shown in her OST! The illusion aspect being something only Cloud can see makes sense, thanks to his Jenova S cells, so the developers are expanding this ability.

Black Robed Man:

Simple. These are Sephiroth Clones, also known as Remnants. Each of these puppets have S Jenova cells injected into them, which is what allows Sephiroth to create illusionary projections of himself via their bodies. They can also create an illusion of Jenova’s Lovecraftian forms. If predictions are correct, there’s a chance that a couple of them could end up becoming the Advent Children (more on that later).

Flashback:

Also simple. This connects to what was mentioned in Cloud’s illusion. Cloud knows events he should not thanks to his Jenova S cells, and flashbacks like, “Within my veins flows the blood of Ancients. This Planet is my birthright!” are events that will be featured later in the game in moments like the Kalm flashback. Moving on!

Unknown:

This is where people get confused. But believe me, the answer is MUCH simpler than most people realize. The Unknown Sephiroth is the last form of Sephiroth that we fought in Final Fantasy 7. Yes, the shirtless one. From here forward I'll call him SOLDIER Sephiroth. For reasons I do not know, they decided not to make him shirtless this time around (too sexy by far?) but believe me when I say that that Sephiroth is the same one we saw at the Edge of Creation. How am I so sure of this? Look back at how Cloud met that Sephiroth in Remake and compare it to what happened in the Crater. They have the same tunnel of light and Cloud’s visiting a persona of Sephiroth that exists in a dimension unaffected by time and space. The Lifestream gives Sephiroth the opportunity to pull Cloud's conscious mind into this dimension. Cloud being in the Singularity during the final battle of FF7R Part 1, and the Singularity containing Lifestream = ability to take Cloud to meet SOLDIER Sephiroth in a pocket dimension, the Edge of Creation. In OG, being exposed/near the Lifestream in the Crater allowed Cloud to visit Shirtless SOLDIER Sephiroth in another dimension and finish him off, with Aerith helping Cloud return his consciousness to the real world.

See?! It actually makes a lot of sense, only this time Sephiroth hasn’t been stripped of his God powers and is currently siphoning the Lifestream. So this time around, Cloud couldn’t beat down Sephiroth. The reason the FF7 Remake Ultimania labels this Sephiroth as unknown is because it’s following a narrative where it assumes you do not know everything yet. Final Fantasy 7 Remake has only covered Midgar, and there’s still many places and moments we have yet to explore. But the Ultimania is not going to cover them until they are published in the next installments, and why would it tell us unrevealed "secrets" of the story? So for now, it has to act as if this is a mystery. This is the same case with Zack being labeled as “Missing in Action” rather than dead in the Ultimania, because we have not reached that moment in the plot yet. But I’ll cover that a bit more on one of the next questions.

As for Sephiroth being prophetic in the Edge of Creation, it’s simply foreshadowing what we’ll eventually have to face. “That which lies ahead… does not yet exist” is telling us that the final battle still has years before it’s ready to be unleashed. As for the Nebula, “Our world will become a part of it… one day,” this is a more vague statement of what I quoted earlier:

“By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life form, a new existence. Melding with the Planet… I will cease to exist as I am now. Only to be reborn as a god to rule over every soul.” The Nebula that Sephiroth is staring at is stated in the FF7R Ultimania to represent Sephiroth’s wing(s). This same Nebula also has a similar shape to the original sketch of Safer Sephiroth. So, based on what SOLDIER Sephiroth told Cloud, we can conclude that Safer Sephiroth will one day be born and be the last fight for our team, maybe even taking place in the Edge of Creation. BUT it’s not quite time for that to happen yet, as Safer Sephiroth's physical body is still resting in a crystal at the Northern Crater. So there you have it!

Lastly, conceding the battlefield against Sephiroth, it is an homage to Advent Children and Edge, yes. That does not automatically mean that Sephiroth is from the future. We just fought arbiters of destiny who turned themselves into depictions of the three Advent Children. This is ultimately the developers' way of ending the game with an exciting boss battle and a somewhat familiar scene. It's just a manifestation of one of Gaia's locations while in the Singularity. Also, this whole boss battle was ultimately a fanservice-esque decision by the developers, particularly Co-Director Naoki Yamaguchi. They originally did not plan to have this boss battle in the first place, but they wanted to end this game on some kind of high note with the main antagonist. They could've ended the game with the Arbiter boss battle, and I think doing so would have confused less people, but the reason behind the Sephiroth boss battle has been spoken. We can conclude this: it was a Jenova/Remnant copy of Sephiroth using expanded abilities like his wing and absorbed some of the Whispers' power before this Sephiroth was defeated by the team and the Whispers were released from his grasp. There is no need to overthink this decision (but yes, I don't think it was entirely necessary).

But what about the Arbiters manifesting into images of Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo? Whisper Rubrum, Viridi, Croceo, and Bahamut SHIN are all representations of Advent Children’s antagonists and their bio says they are from a “future timeline.” Isn’t this proof that there’s time travel and alternate timelines going on?

Well, you are right about the enemy intel bio in Final Fantasy 7 Remake stating that these guys are manifestations of figures from a future timeline. BUT that does not imply that multiple timelines are forming. Technically speaking, we all live in one timeline that follows through a singularity. This is the same case for Final Fantasy 7, and the very place we are fighting these Whispers is called the Singularity. The reason the Whispers are forming into these creatures is because of their future knowledge. This is their way of shapeshifting into powerful foes that can defend themselves against the team. They are turning into foes that destiny will one day birth, but in the form of something akin to a Weapon just like the main Arbiter itself, and this is also the developers way of adding a homage and possibly a hint of the foes that will appear in the future. They are NOT the Advent Children themselves, otherwise there would probably show more personality, and they would also… look more like them. So what happened with “time” after defeating these Advent Whispers and the Arbiter Weapon? Well, it sharpened the curves of the river and put destiny on a new course, but to the same destination, hence the “set beginning and end” that the developers mentioned before. In the river’s new course, we’ll get new events that while still having original events that will all be more fleshed out. In part of this new course of destiny maybe there’s a chance that we will see the Advent Children themselves. How can I be sure of this? After speaking to a friend about it, the remnants we encountered give us a hint. Marco, #49, resides in Sector 7. Who was a teenager that resided in Sector 7 before becoming a remnant and then Advent Child? Kadaj, also known as the manifestation of Sephiroth's cruelty. Meanwhile, we have #2 in Sector 5, who shows strong features fitting for someone in SOLDIER. Who fits this category? Loz, also known as the manifestation of Sephiroth's strength. People have theorized that #2 is Zack, but I do not agree and will address that later. The only remnant candidate we have left is Yazoo, the manifestation of Sephiroth's allure. This makes sense as he’s the most silent of the trio, so the developers will keep his remnant in mystery for now. But there you have it. By Nomura stating, "Come back to me a few years later and ask me what remake means," what I believe he means by "remake" is write the original story of Final Fantasy 7 with characters in other parts of the compilation included. Hence, a shuffled story with the same necessary outcomes.

Okay, but didn’t the developers say that Final Fantasy 7 Remake is not canon to the Compilation, thereby making it a different story from the Compilation and proving the developers are ditching the original story in the process?

Let me tell you right now: if those lines were what they actually said in full context, then they were lying. How am I sure? Because throughout FF7R, parts of what happened in the Compilation are included in the story. Zack’s Last Stand was featured in a flashback; Hollow’s lyrics greatly parallel the lyrical version of Price of Freedom; one of Cloud’s old Shinra Military comrades was featured and mentioned Kunsel, from Crisis Core; and of course the big Arbiters being manifestations of the Advent Children.

For saying the Compilation is being ditched and is the bad ending, why include characters and homages specifically from the Compilation? If they really were, they wouldn’t put pieces of it into the story like this. All that was stated by Director Tetsuya Nomura was that FF7 Remake is not canon to the Compilation YET. Keyword YET. The story is incomplete and the developers need to see Remake through from start to finish before they can say it’s truly canon to the Compilation. And what have Scenario Writer Kazushige Nojima and Producer Yoshinori Kitase said about the story?

Does this sound like they’re ditching the Compilation to you? I think this should sum up how they are tying the series of Final Fantasy 7 into one big package, but there are some people saying that the team seeing Advent Children and the Planet 500 years later, followed by Red XIII saying it’s “a glimpse of tomorrow if we fail here today” as proof that what happens in the future is a bad ending. This is not entirely true. It makes sense for humanity to be gone 500 years later with the Planet living on because that was the life that the team was trying to save in the first place. What Red XIII told us was simple: that if Destiny wins, then the river of Destiny will run the same course, and that includes the events of On The Way To a Smile, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, and of course humanity being gone 500 years later. This is another case of the team receiving future visions without context, as I addressed before. They saw an event where they maybe saw people they knew, but do they know what leads to it? No. So what they assume about the outcome of the future and what’s good and bad may not necessarily be correct. They will find that out as the next parts of Final Fantasy 7 Remake are released.

Okay, but aren’t the characters free to do whatever they want now that they have beaten Destiny? As Aerith said, they have boundless, terrifying freedom.

They have freedom from the Whispers, and like Zack once said, “The price of freedom is steep.” They can begin their journey without the worry of the Whispers acting up if they do something that strays far away from what’s necessary. That doesn’t mean that they are not going to head to all the destinations we needed to reach in the original game. We will still probably have the flashback at Kalm since it’s the nearest town away from Midgar. We still need to pass through the Mythril Mines to get to other destinations. We still need to pass through Corel, Barret’s hometown, to get to the Gold Saucer where we will meet Cait Sith and reach Barret’s character climax. We still need to reach Gongaga and this will likely be a required place to visit because of how much more importance Zack is given in Remake. There’s also no working reactor in Gongaga so there’s a chance that yellow reunion flowers will grow as foliage. We still need to head to Cosmo Canyon, where Bugenhagen will teach us more about the Lifestream and where Red XIII will learn the truth about what happened to his father Seto. We still need to head to Nibelheim where a lot of confusion is going to rise within our team--specifically Cloud and Tifa--and also where we need to release Vincent from the Shinra Mansion. We still need to cross Mt. Nibel (we might get a flashback from Cloud) and head to Rocket Town to meet Cid and drink some goddamn tea. We still need to head to the Temple of the Ancients for the team to find out what needs to be done to save the Planet, and also the place where Sephiroth will manipulate Cloud and the team into giving him the Black Materia. We still need Aerith to head to the Forgotten City as it’s the only place she can use her prayer to activate the White Materia and summon Holy. We still need to head to the Northern Crater as that’s where Cloud will likely have his downfall and submit to Sephiroth….

We could keep going on with this, but I’m sure you see my point. New things will happen but there are important locations that the team needs to reach in order to come closer to their goal of stopping Sephiroth. The simple thing is that, from here on out, the Whispers will not intervene, giving us the illusion that things will change, but we most likely will learn the hard way that the necessary outcomes will still happen. So once again, the river is on a new course to the same destination.

Okay. You’ve talked about Sephiroth not being from the future, but what about Aerith? Her prayer stance in the opening cinematic looks eerily similar to her stance in the ending of Final Fantasy 7. Based on this, is she from the future/did she see the outcome of the Meteor-Lifestream-Holy Conflict?

No. What probably happened was the developers paid homage to that ending screen. What follows immediately after that is Aerith picking up a crushed reunion flower, symbolizing the non-reunion that Aerith and Zack could not receive in life, but eventually receive in the Lifestream. And once again: Aerith has received visions of the future, but without context as to why and how they happened. In a novella it’s mentioned that Aerith received a vision as a child and drew her mural of symbolism in her room as a result. We know she’s been receiving non-contextual visions for awhile, but being forced into a big responsibility by the Planet is something she needs to learn to accept, and that’s part of her character arc we will receive in the next parts of FInal Fantasy 7 Remake. There is no evidence she can time travel, and she doesn’t always know the Whispers’ intentions. When the team asked her what they were doing while surrounding the Shinra HQ Tower, she simply replied, “Who knows?”. She’s not omniscient. She has some meta knowledge and a big responsibility, but does not know how to handle this role yet. And that's where character development comes in for our Maiden of the Planet.

Cool, but why are people like Rufus and Hojo able to see the Whispers in the first place? And maybe Zack, too?

Actually, there’s a pretty straightforward explanation for this. As we know, to be able to see the Whispers, once again you have to either be heavily connected to the Planet or touched by a special person. Aerith spent a portion of her childhood in the Shinra HQ Tower. Who else was there with her? Her biological mother Ifalna. These two are both Cetra, one half and one full-blooded. Hojo likely spent hours upon hours with both of them, especially Ifalna, so receiving contact from them is not farfetched. Also, that gross f***** of a scientist does unfortunately play an important role in the plot and keeping the flow of destiny on course. As for Rufus? This man was a teenager when Aerith and Ifalna were living in Shinra HQ. It’s very possible that he ran into one of the two cetra and maybe received contact from them. If he didn’t? Don’t forget, this man is the president of Shinra throughout almost all of FF7. Even if the team opposes him, they still need him. He is very necessary to destroy the barrier that blocks the team from getting into the Northern Crater. Without his actions, the team cannot make it to Sephiroth. It’s that simple. And even though he can see the Whispers, how much does it matter? It’s only going to matter if the Whispers make a resurgence sometime in the plot. There you have it.

Okay, but why is Zack alive after his Last Stand? And why were the Whispers present during this? Also, what about the Stamp bag? Isn’t this proof of time travel and alternate timelines?

And here’s where the red herring comes in! He did beat the Shinra Army. And yes, the Whispers were present. BUT why were they present? Remember what was mentioned earlier? The Whispers are dead souls returning to the Planet, and if that’s the case they have been part of the Planet for a LONG time. This means that they were ALWAYS present through the course of events in the Planet. The reason we see them during Zack’s Last Stand is likely to throw one off at first, until they connect the dots with how old the Whispers actually are. And they are showing themselves in the Last Stand because this is an extremely important event that has to happen for Cloud’s next journey to begin. We didn’t quite get to see how the Whispers changed up the event, but they likely did form it in a way where the developers wanted to trick us. It's also left ambiguous if he can see the Whispers or not, although they do not seem to alarm him IF he can see them.

Now, about the Last Stand, If you compare Remake’s Last Stand to Crisis Core and Final Fantasy 7 OG, you’ll notice that Remake’s moment has similarities to the OG scene.

Zack walks, drops Cloud in a safe place, and defends himself against the soldiers in all three. So here's where the cutscenes get different:

FF7 OG: Zack fights against Shinra infantrymen. We don't see the troops, but Zack thinks he defeated them. Afterwards he heads to Cloud but immediately gets shot by a group of Shinra troops, and I mean shot. Afterwards, there is no dialogue between Zack and Cloud, Cloud grabs the Buster Sword and starts breaking down in the rain. Thus, his journey--nearly--begins.

FF7 Crisis Core: Zack confronts the Shinra army. He begins his monologue:

Boy oh boy... The price of freedom is steep. Embrace your dreams, and whatever happens... Protect your honor, as a SOLDIER!

We then proceed to battle the Shinra army. Eventually, the screen fades to black and we see Zack mortally wounded. The same group of Shinra troops from OG come over and bullet Zack to death. Eventually, Cloud wakes up in shock, and Zack parts Cloud his sword and last words:

For the both of us... You're gonna... Live. You'll be... My living legacy. My honor, my dreams... They're yours now.

Cloud then proceeds with a breakdown, and afterwards begins his journey, where he'll bump into a certain someone while in Mako comatose. Sheesh I hate watching that scene due to its deadly side effect.

Where does Remake stop?

Right in the area where Zack’s grave is, a cliff with a steep descent to flat land. It’s the same spot where Zack got shot by a Shinra infantryman who pursued Zack throughout his running away from Shinra Mansion; it's the same spot where Cloud placed the Buster Sword to honor his close friend’s wish; and the same spot where Zack declared, “For the both of us… you’re going to live. You’ll be… my living legacy.” The developers intentionally stopped us from seeing the outcome of that moment because it’ll either be the same place where Zack will die, or we’ll see his fate get delayed and placed somewhere else. 

I have also seen people argue that #2 is Zack, or if not Zack, then Zack’s corpse.

This is false.

Remember why Zack was placed in a cryosleep tube in the first place? Because, like Cloud, he was considered a failed experiment by Hojo because the S cells could not turn him into a Sephiroth clone. Zack becoming a Sephiroth clone would be a major retcon to the story and how he was able to escape with Cloud in the first place. Zack becoming a clone would mean that he was never a failed experiment. And what would happen if he wasn’t a failed experiment? Cloud wouldn’t be able to escape and FF7 wouldn’t have happened. Could Hojo have picked up Zack’s dead body after his death? Maybe, but is there evidence that his corpse would still become a clone? That’s extremely unlikely in my personal opinion. We would have to assume that Hojo did another clone experiment this time around and the Shinra troops decided to take his body with them when they had no good motive or order to do so anyway. Their orders were likely  “shoot to kill” and that’s it. We don’t need Zack’s corpse to be remade into a clone, and we certainly don’t need him to be a clone if Sephiroth wants to do something like create an illusionary projection of Zack. Remember what happened in the Northern Crater? Sephiroth used Jenova to create an illusion of Tifa in order to trick the Black Materia holder into “helping” the team.

Lastly, that bag of Stamp's Champs, Original Flavor.

It’s interesting, isn't it? And Nomura told us to pay close attention to both stamps. This is probably the biggest case of an alternate timeline being real, but after thinking about it for a while, I argue that it's not proving an alternate timeline exists, but rather it's being shown to give focus to two different heroes. And how does this work in the FF7 world? Well, Shinra probably has simple rebranding of Stamp on a Shinra product. It’s not uncommon for corporations to rebrand their products into a different name (just look up Lay’s Potato Chips and you’ll come across Walkers, as shown in my poorly collaged photo). BUT there's another example to talk about, as a friend mentioned. Stamp's Champs are the "original" flavor. This original flavor and Terrier is being used to represent Zack in FF7, as he was once called a "puppy" by his mentors in FF7 Crisis Core. Now, that bag is calling to the original hero, who was Zack (could also be an homage to how Zack's design was originally assigned a "different" role in FF7 OG) up until he passed his dreams on to Cloud. So what this means is both Stamps are used for wither a different flavor or got rebranded after a certain amount of time passed, or the Stamp brand has the same flavor is different depending on the location in Gaia. Now for the second functionality for Stamp: It's being used as a red herring to mislead the players deeper in to the mouse trap. Remember Stamp’s original function in the context of Shinra? It served as a propaganda device for Shinral to promote its use of warfare for wealth to mislead the public into thinking Shinra’s deeds were for progress and beneficial for the Planet. It’s very possible that the developers are using Terrier Stamp as a propaganda device to trick the face-value players into thinking everything’s going to be different for the story until we're shown otherwise. And if it actually is an alternate timeline? It will not affect our team. As established previously, there is no time travel that our team is capable of, and the Whispers act on a fixed flow under the Will of the Planet and are almost omnipresent, so they must correct the course of destiny in the present and as quickly as possible. That alternate timeline would probably just be used to show us that no matter what we do, what’s set in stone needs to be kept in stone. So, don’t get your hopes up that Zack is going to survive, especially since he already passed on the Buster Sword to Cloud in the present "timeline" that we're playing.

But why is there a different Seventh Heaven sign shown during the ending sequence? Isn’t this proof of an alternate timeline?

Careful now. There’s a big possibility that what was shown during that shuffled sequence of events was the original Seventh Heaven bar. That’s right, there was a Seventh Heaven before Tifa’s in Sector 7. How do I know this? It’s a sidequest in Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core. Zack met an unnamed carpenter in the Sector 7 slums and helped name the bar. The canon answer in the narrative is to choose the name Seventh Heaven. So what’s likely happening here is 1) we saw a past event of the first Seventh Heaven bar being worked on, as the folks of the slums are building their homes together; 2) we are seeing the folks rebuild the Sector 7 slums, and perhaps to honor what was once there, the folks are building another bar and making sure to keep the original name Seventh Heaven, or 3) pretty much what I said before and it’s happening in an alternate timeline. Regardless, there’s a good chance that Crisis Core is being referenced here. And if it isn’t and it’s different events happening in an alternate timeline? Once again, our friends can’t go to that alternate timeline because time travel is not a power they have. So, it doesn’t really affect the main beats of our journey. What may happen, though, is our team will visit the Sector 7 slums later down the line, and they’ll have a reunion with a rebuilt home before settling the score with Shinra and Sephiroth. Until we see it, though, that’s just headcanon.

But why is Biggs alive? Aren’t Wedge and Jessie alive, too?

Biggs is shown to be alive, yes, but at what point of time and for how long? Also, even though he is shown to be alive, how is that going to drastically alter the story for our friends? He may stick around and have a minor role later, but he could very well die again depending on where the Destiny River is heading, and there’s likely very little he can do to somehow drastically change the story. Is he going to suddenly appear and sacrifice himself to make sure Aerith survives? Highly doubt it. See what I mean? Even if someone like him is left alive, he’ll either receive the same fate in a different way or just get a role that won’t change much of the main story. So, are Wedge and Jessie alive? Wedge, absolutely not. He was pushed down Shinra HQ Tower and there is no way he was able to survive a fall that high. There is no evidence that he “survived” after that fall as well. As for Jessie, we saw her gloves and headband on a dresser next to Biggs, but that’s it. Why would they place those next to him and not next to Jessie if she’s still alive and being taken care of? She was high atop the Sector 7 tower and it’s very unlikely anyone besides our team was able to run up and grab her on time. She was also in a worse state than Biggs and probably got crushed by the tower collapsing. In other words, she got crushed twice. Once when she set off her bomb and Cloud and Tifa bump into her; the second, when the plate dropped. What the glove and headband are, are likely nothing more than the remains of a friend who couldn’t make it. There may have been time for someone to pick up Biggs and that’s how he ended up in a bed, covered in bandages. As for more proof he’s the only one who survived? Wedge had 3 cats he held. Out of the three, only one named Biggums survived. The other 2 missing, I believe, are symbolism for the fate of the AVALANCHE trio. There you have it, three charming but minor characters who had written character arcs that got fleshed out in Remake, but don’t serve an extremely important purpose to the main plot points of the game (no offense to the trio, I do like Mr. Not-Charlie-Sheen and I wonder what they will do when the inevitable happens).

This is cool and all, but what about Sephiroth's line? "Seven Seconds till the end. Time enough for you, perhaps. But what will you do with it? Let's see." Also, this Sephiroth used more informal phrasing in the Japanese acript, such as "ore." He seems to be aware of what the future holds, too. So what do you make of this?

Ah yes, this moment, also one of the first pieces of script the writers thought of:

Well friend, I actually covered this topic before:

Seven Seconds Before the End: Theory vs. Context

While that post was made to debunk a theory, I believe what I wrote in it can easily be taken into the context of this post. That's one thing people constantly overlook about this line: it already has a given context. What do I mean by that? Check out the story log here:

In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise. Having strayed from the course destiny set for them, they strike out on a path toward an unknown future.

This is what Sephiroth was referring to: the end of the Planet. Unfortunately people are taking this line WAY out of context and using it to write theories that stray far away from the line's meaning in the first place. It's part of what Sephiroth is after, and it's part of what Cloud is fighting against. The team fought against the Arbiters of Fate because they believe what they saw was the end of everything for them without seeing the long-term outcome, while Sephiroth lured the team to fight against the Arbiters of Fate because he may have seen his failure, and believes that with the physical manifestation of the Whispers gone, he can continue his plan without any chance of failure. A part of the future, no matter what seems to happen, will involve making a decision seven seconds before the Planet's demise. What will cause the Planet's demise? Meteor. That is the main calamity we are trying to stop after defeating Sephiroth, and we need to defeat Safer Sephiroth and SOLDIER Sephiroth to make sure his will cannot block Holy from being summoned, as well as prevent Aerith from calling forth the Lifestream. So once again, this is from Sephiroth's rough understanding of the future, and it's a meta message for the players of what the ending of Remake might entail. It is NOT Sephiroth from the future suddenly sending his body/consciousness into the past in a really odd moment to give Cloud a warning.

Even with all this, the ending of Final Fantasy 7 Remake stated, "The Unknown Journey will continue." What do you have to say about this?

Yes, there is an unknown journey. This is a journey with new content to tie the rest of the Compilation together, like a possible story shuffle mentioned earlier. There's bound to be new and revised scenes in between the set beginning and end, hence "the unknown journey." I talked about this before, but for the developers to put something like "The same journeys from 2 decades ago will continue" is counter-intuitive to what they just showed us in the ending and would mess with all the anticipation for what's to come next. We have to think about this in a different perspective, and not the perspective of "oh, nothing is going to change." The developers need to keep people excited, and part of keeping that excitement is marketing a tease. It's pretty much how marketing works, too. A marketing scheme that only tells the literal facts without trying to juggle the consumer's emotions isn't going to interest the consumer that much compared to the marketing scheme that teases at the possibilities. As for the reason Yoshinori Kitase will then say that the team is continuing FF7R as FF7 has? He's in a different mindset during interviews like that. The game Final Fantasy 7 Remake is telling us things like a book, ending the events with a To Be Continued cliffhanger. Meanwhile, Kitase can state that FF7R will continue as FF7 because that's technically a vague statement. We know we'll get key locations and scenes, but we don't know how they'll get fleshed out. And we sure as heck don't know about any new scenes and how those are going to be executed in the next installments. In other words, think of a classic sandwich with a hipster rendition. The set beginning and end are the top and bottom buns, the protein is almost the same, maybe a couple spices added in there; and the unknown is all the new toppings added in your hipster-style classic sandwich. I know this is a strange analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across. So don't worry too much; Nojima, Nomura, and Kitase haven't shown us the new condiments yet!

Conclusion

If you're still here after reading through my wall of jargon, thank you! After all that I've written, I hope I was able to accomplish my goal: to ease your worries about the developers' plans with the story. And I hoped to do this by giving an in-universe explanation as to why certain things are happening. There is context to the Whispers' powers, and with the Whisper following a continuous flow of destiny, pieces of the future and past are scattered in that river. Sephiroth's been basking in this river for years now, so he got similar exposure as Aerith did and now has rough knowledge of what's to come. I think people who are clinging to time travel theories are taking the Whispers' powers out of context. We saw vague bits of the future; Aerith did, Sephiroth did, we did, and do you know who else? Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and Red XIII. Heavy exposure to the Whispers gives visions as a side effect. They're not travelling through time from the future to fix things when they've always existed as dead souls who returned to the Planet; they're continuously moving around Gaia and watching folks--especially key players in saving the Planet. The flow of a river doesn't stop, it keeps moving through its closed course. Maybe it can change its course in a slightly different direction, or get shafted into sharper curves to delay the flow, but it will still head to its final destination no matter what. While we are in the current of this new course, we'll stumble upon some untouched terrain before we get to the set ending.

However, even if we know about the inevitable, that isn't going to stop us from feeling intense pain for our heroes.

Thus the journey continues.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go sit my ass down and drink some god-damn tea.

Special Thanks

@otp-oasis-heavenxearth (Also known as @magicalchemist)

For taking the time to read my rough draft and pointing out the goofs, bringing in your theory ideas, as well as helping me solidify my confidence in Final Fantasy 7 Remake's future. Seriously, if you haven't, check out her blog. She's incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to FF7 and looks through every different perspective while sticking to the facts. In other words, straight up awesome!

@silver-wield

For allowing me to cite your post, as well as being the first person that made me faithful the developers are staying true to their word with their direction of FF7R. Seriously, thanks! If you haven't, check out her blog. Her attention to detail is incredible!

[rainbowserenity]

I finished the FF7 Remake, and oh boy do I have THOUGHTS!!!! It’s been like an hour and a half and I’m still riding that high omg

if this was just the first part, I can only imagine how the rest of the game’s gonna go...

Anyway, rambly thoughts under this beautiful screenshot of Tifa I took:

- This game was seriously SO FUN???? I honestly can’t remember the last time I had so much FUN with a game...they really did so well with all the gameplay mechanics and having a good balance of everything, so A++++ for that!

- They weren’t kidding when they said this would basically be a ~full~ game on its own, despite only being the first episode....I got close to 50 hours of gameply (although a lot of it was just me farting around doing nothing lmao) and nothing felt like it was lacking :D

- I really liked (most) of the new VAs! I was kinda worried about Barrett in the trailers, but he came through for me lolol even the NPCs sounded awesome!

- We all know Don Corneo’s a pig, but I actually really enjoyed his scenes because his VA was clearly having so much fun with it ahaha~ And I LOVE that they kept in the “I’ll cut them off/smash them/rip them off” lines pffft. Too classic!

- I LOOOOVE all the stuff they elaborated on....it was nice to see more of Midgar and hang out with the AVALANCHE nerds. I remember not really giving much of a fuck when they died in the OG, but I was full on sobbing at Jessie’s death scene in this game a;lskjf;laiwjef

- I thought the battle with Rude was kinda clever, that he wouldn’t really hurt Aerith but just kept putting her to sleep when you switched over to her...so RUDE hahahaha B)

- I WAS NOT EXPECTING TO SEE CAIT SITH???!!! It makes me wonder if they’re gonna have a different way of introducing him, or if he’s gonna have a different sort of role...maybe Reeve will finally tell us how he operates a robot cat with a Scottish accent

- I loved the little details in the animation, like how when you climbed all the stairs in the Shinra building (because of course I did that lmao), Cloud gradually got slower and slower...or how when you controlled Tifa, she was naturally faster. And how Barrett sort of ‘limped’ when he climbed the ladders cause he just has one hand......I love tiny details and effort like that ahhh it warms my cold black heart!!!

- speaking of which, if you watch Red XIII pull the levers....you can kind of see how he’ll be able to pull off the sailor suit later on lmao I love him

- WALL MARKET!!!!!!! Definitely my favorite chapter omg alskdjflaiwejf The dance sequences were PERFECT!!! When did Cloud learn to dance?! I can’t wait to go back and replay that chapter lmao

- AERITH SMACKING THE GRUNTS AROUND WITH A CHAIR ADDED TEN YEARS TO MY LIFE

- So much of the game gave me XIII trilogy vibes....a lot of it was the music, but the gameplay and some bosses made me feel it too :D

- Am I crazy.......or were practically all the scenes with Sephiroth amazingly gay??? like idk if it’s just Hoech doing that, but........damn

- I officially ship Cloud/Tifa/Aerith as an OT3, but Tifa/Aerith were so cute and gay ahhhhhhhh~ Even if you don’t have shipper goggles, they did amazing at really elaborating their friendship!

- Honestly, all of the relationships between everybody were SO well done without it seeming like they were trying too hard. It felt so natural and easy, even between the NPCs, A++++ to the writers

- Battle-wise, I liked playing as Tifa the best, mostly because I typically enjoy using speedy characters. I actually liked playing as Aerith the least, even though I also enjoy using mages...Barrett took some getting used to, but he grew on me. And of course Cloud was lovely~ It’ll be interesting playing as Red eventually, I think he’ll be really fun to control

- I wonder if Yuffie’s eventual appearance will be handled differently, because they really kept emphasizing the whole “AVALANCHE IS WORKING WITH WUTAI!!!!!!!!” angle....and I doubt Yuffie will be an optional party member, so there might be some more story stuff there. I bet with Vincent they’ll just make waking him up mandatory lmao

- Going back to Wall Market....am I crazy, or was Chocobo Sam the only possible straight one of the trio 8D Madam M was clearly pansexual, don’t @ me

- AERITH SAID SHIT

- tbh I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ending, so there may be rambly tags in gifsets eventually, but....

- ZACK???????????????????? EXCUSE ME I WAS NOT EXPECTING TO SEE MY HUSBAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YA’LL SHOULD’VE HEARD THE NOISES I MADE A;SLKDJF;ALWIEJF;ALWIEJF;ALWIJEF;LAWIJEF

- AND THAT “I’LL GO GET KUNSEL” LINE????? EXCUSE ME???????????????????????????????????????? WHY WOULD THEY PLAY MY HEART LIKE THAT?????????????????????????

- ........................................................I don’t much care for Zack’s new VA :(

- Though I think I’m just biased because Rick Gomez was PERFECT and always how I pictured Zack’s voice....this new one just doesn’t quite do it for me and that makes me sad :( - BUT HE’S SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ZACK EXIST AND MARRY ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- seriously, how was it possible for him to get MORE beautiful???!!!?? I’m gonna cry just thinking about it rip

- I was talking to a friend about the ending, and she had what I think is a good theory that the Whispers have seen things play out before and this is just a reoccurring timeline. It would explain why Cloud had visions of Aerith praying for Holy, why Tifa saw Meteor, how they saw Red running around in the future... (plus, this was sort of the plot of Type-0, so it wouldn’t be the first time it’s been done lol)

- tbh though, I’m not sure how the possibility of Zack not going to Hawaii will play into things. Cloud’s cocky personality is a result of his trauma from Zack’s trip to Hawaii....so if that happened differently....

- Maybe Asshole Hojo picked Zack up??? Because he did seem to know who Cloud was and was all interested in furthering his ~experiments~ so it’s entirely possibly he’s a dick and has Zack locked up somewhere again....

- OR maybe Zack’s just in hiding and that’s what the “I’LL GO GET KUNSEL” line was all about, since Kunsel knows all?? IDK MY HEAD HURTS

- That being said, I need to think about things more and as I mentioned, there may be rambles in my tags in the coming weeks ahaha~

OVERALL, this game was a BLAST!!!! I loved it so much, and like I said, I can’t remember the last time I had so much fun playing something. 10000000000/10, highly recommended to the world and I can’t wait for the next part!

[sephinova]

Oh you didn't enjoyed the remake? What do you think about it being another installment of the compilation (like, a sequel to advent children) instead of an actual remake of the og? Just curious

Hello anon, I'm sorry to answer you so late.

First I want to let you know there is a lot I Ioved about 'Remake'.

The characterizations and interactions of Cloud, Aerith, Tifa, Barret, Nanaki/Red XIII, Marlene, Jessie, Biggs and Wedge, were, for the most part, an absolute joy to view that had me smiling, laughing and even crying. I loved the fleshing out of Biggs, Wedge and especially Jessie, her backstory of being an actress, her motivations for joining AVALANCHE and her HUGE crush on Cloud that she has become one of my favourite FFVII characters. I loved the hustle and bustle and the sense of community that the slums had that felt believable. The gameplay is fun, I particularly loved playing as Aerith and Tifa. I loved the exploration of Midgar, especially of Wall Market which was tons of fun in chapter 9 that had me screaming and howling in laughter which cemented it as my most favourite part of 'Remake'. Madam M is an awesome new character, I found her outbursts of anger rather humourous and I absolutely love her character design. I loved a lot of the soundtrack, particularly the orchestrated rearrangements of original FFVII's music, 'J-E-N-O-V-A - Quickening' and 'One-Winged Angel - Rebirth' are incredible and the new song 'Stand Up' is super fun and catchy.

WARNING: RANT UNDER THE CUT

Now onto how I feel about 'Remake' being another instalment of the compilation and sequel to Advent Children...

I hate it.

I hate it so much that I don't consider 'Remake' to be canon in my eyes.

The unnecessary and contrived additions of fate ghosts and multiple timelines completely undermines EVERYTHING about the original Final Fantasy VII right down to its very core. FFVII was NEVER about fighting against a predestined future ordained by the Planet. FFVII was about choice, greed, selfishness, environmentalism, trauma, identity, life, death and so much more. FFVII is a story about events linked together by chance there was nothing to suggest there was anything preordained about it. Zack made the CHOICE to escape from The Shinra Mansion, take Cloud with him to Midgar and fight for their freedoms which tragically resulted in his death. Aerith CHOSE to travel on her own to the Forgotten City to pray for Holy in order to save the Planet from Meteor that resulted in her sacrifice. It was Sephiroth's DECISION to burn down Nibelhiem and summon Meteor because of his hatred of everything (it baffles me why the Planet would even preordain something that could very well cause its death). I could go on and on but basically making FFVII all about fate literally strips every single character of ALL their agency.

Here is a comment I came across on YouTube which perfectly describes how very poorly thought out these plot narratives are in 'Remake' which I couldn't have said better myself:

'Remake' outright claims that there is something wrong with original FFVII and wants to ''change it, make it right''.

Change and make what right exactly?

Undo/prevent the deaths of Biggs, possibly Jessie (her gloves were on the desk in the room where Biggs wakes up in), Wedge (wouldn't surprise me if he survived a THIRD time), Dyne, Aerith and all/most of the good characters in multiple timelines like how Zack's death was prevented? Prevent Meteor from being summoned Maybe redeem Sephiroth, possibly absolve him of his crimes and reunite him with his birth mother Lucrecia so they may become a happy family? Likely resulting in an ultra happy ending where all the sacrifices and struggles of the original are made meaningless as 'Remake' considers it the bad timeline. Also, if FFVIIAC Sephiroth (and possibly Aerith) is able to travel to different timelines who is to say that Zack or any other characters may be able to do the same as I'm certain SE has major plans for Zack surviving because why on earth would they even do that if there isn't a reason for it? 'Remake' is so much like fanfiction that pretty much anything goes and could be made possible.

And if part 2 and onwards of 'Remake' just so happens to play out a lot closer to original FFVII then what was the whole point of adding fate ghosts and multiple timelines in the first place?

When 'Remake' is allowed to follow along with original FFVII's story it's amazing and even perfect from time to time yet whenever those absurd fate ghosts and multiple timelines get shoehorned in (especially in chapters 17 and 18) it ruined the experience for me so much so that I felt like I was playing an AU time-travel fix-it fanfiction that got greenlit to be adapted into a video game and I say this as someone who writes self-indulgent terribly written FFVII fanfiction as a hobby.

I've never mentioned this on Tumblr until now that about 2-3 years before 'Remake' was announced I never wanted a remake as I held the opinion that there was no need for one as I felt it was and still is, perfect in my eyes. I feared that if SE decided to remake FFVII they may make unnecessary changes. For the past several years I no longer want(ed) any more compilation titles as I think there's no need for more and I don't like how SE had been building up the significance of Genesis and what it could mean for possible future instalment(s). I don't hate nor love Genesis as a character but in my opinion, I think he should have died at the end of Crisis Core.

I knew from the very moment when 'Remake' was first announced that it would be a mixed bag of things I would, like, love, dislike and maybe even hate. Yet I was willing to put all my fears aside and keep an open mind to the changes because maybe... just maybe... 'Remake' might not be so bad whilst simultaneously bracing myself for the changes. But there was nothing that could have prepared me for just how drastic these changes were going to be.

Looking back now, my 20-22 years old self was absolutely right to be fearful of a possible remake and my 23-27 years old self was also right about 'Remake' being a mixed bag of good and bad. 'Remake's' first trailer should have been a massive red flag for me when I heard this quote: ''It may bring joy, it may bring fear...'' and oh boy do I feel that fear now.

It's okay for you and anyone else to like 'Remake', I understand that in some ways I'm not exactly the intended audience of this video game. However, as a massive and extremely passionate fan of original FFVII for almost all of my life and having played it from beginning to end at least once every year since I first completed it way back in 2003 resulting in about 30 or nearly 30 playthroughs...

...I cannot help but feel crushed, deceived and terrified by this new direction Square Enix has adopted.

[arizariia]

Clerith And Vincrecia

My third eye has opened and now I'm enlightened.

I just realized just how similar Vincrecia and Clerith are in FFVII. I even want to be so bold as to claim that this parallel is going to be story important in Remake.

The first similarity about these ships is the similarities between Cloud and Vincent. Cloud is an "ex-member of SOLDIER". He was impaled by Sephiroth. He survived but was unfortunately found by Hojo. He was then subjected to Hojo's experiments. Vincent is an ex-Turk. He was shot by Hojo during an argument. He died, experimented on by Hojo, and was then resurrected by Lucrecia.

In terms of personality, Cloud and Vincent do share similar traits as well. Cloud made a persona where he's overconfident, arrogant, and headstrong. He also became emotionally withdrawn from others. His most memorable line is, "Not interested" and the man originally didn't care about saving the planet. The truth is he's socially awkward. He is bad at expressing himself and displays poor communicative skills. The people that Cloud is closest to recognize this. They know he's a soft, caring person.

Vincent is a cold man whose life has been severely devastated by Hojo. At one point in time, even Cloud thought that Vincent didn't care about the planet. He's a natural loner and doesn't speak much about his past at all. Even though he has a cold exterior he is a kind-hearted person.

The following part is how alike Aerith and Lucrecia are. In terms of physical appearance, the two women are remarkably similar. Both have pale skin, brunette hair, and have similar mannerisms. What's extremely interesting are their hairstyles. Aerith and Sephiroth were initially siblings. They were given similar bangs as a result of this. Even after the story was altered and the two were no longer siblings, their hair didn't change. Lucrecia initially didn't have the "Sephiroth bangs" but when it came time for her to appear in Dirge of Cerberus, she gained them. Hence, Lucrecia looks like Aerith because they both were designed to somewhat resemble Sephiroth.

Personality-wise, Aerith is a lively person. She is compassionate, stubborn, and can even be smug at some points. She has even flirted with Cloud on many occasions. The most significant thing about her is her desire to want to her own decisions and defy fate. She wants to stop Shinra and Sephiroth from causing further harm to the planet.

Lucrecia, on the other hand, is also a kind person who was known to tease. She was also seemly fond of nature and even enjoyed a picnic with Vincent. Her primary goal as a scientist was to further her research on the study of Chaos and Omega. This was to find a way to prevent Omega from ending the world.

So how similar is the ship dynamic? Let's start with Clerith. Clerith doesn't begin until Cloud falls into Aerith's church in the Sector 5 slums. After Reno enters the building, Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard. Their relationship hinges on this. Cloud is her bodyguard throughout the entire story of FFVII after this. He makes sure she gets home safely in chapter 5. He crossdresses so Aerith doesn't have to enter Don Corneo's mansion by herself in chapter 9. Cloud even sneaks into Shinra HQ to rescue her with the help of Tifa and Barret. This just from the beginning of the story. At this point, Cloud has, surprisingly, only known Aerith for around two days.

With Vincrecia, Vincent was assigned to be Lucrecia's bodyguard from the very beginning. He was tasked with making sure she was protected and being mindful of her wellbeing. When Hojo was neglecting Lucrecia, Vincent was the one to call him out on his behavior. When Vincent died, Lucrecia was the one who wanted to resurrect him. Even though Lucrecia placed an enormous burden on him, she was more concerned with him being alive again.

Now, it's time to discuss imagery. Since we have only seen Lucrecia in Dirge of Cerberus, there isn't much to work with. However, what is present is fascinating. The first piece of significant visual similarities is when Lucrecia wakes up Vincent after she discovered him sleeping outside. This can be compared to when Aerith wakes up Cloud after he falls into her church. Something to mention is that both men are sleeping around flowers.

The following thing is something that I mentioned previously. Lucrecia and Aerith have similar body language. They both tend to lean forwards with their hands behind their backs.

After that, we have when Cloud looks at Aerith when she's at the Forgotten City and when Vincent looks at Lucrecia in her crystal.

Here we have Aerith reaching out to Cloud just like when Lucrecia reaches out to Vincent.

So how does this relate to what I mentioned before? That I believe these elements are vital to FFVII Remake? Well, the story of Lucrecia and Vincent is a tragedy. Even though they loved each other, Lucrecia's guilt and Vincent's reluctance to admit his feelings are what drove the two apart. Their story was a love that could never be. But hold on a moment. That's how Cloud and Aerith's story is in the original game. Even though Cloud genuinely loved Aerith and her death shattered him, he never confessed his feelings for her. In Remake Aerith explicitly states in Cloud's resolution scene that he can't fall in love with her. She knows she will die if fate isn't defeated.

Aerith hints from the very beginning that she either has already lived through the initial events of FFVII, or she simply has knowledge of what is supposed to happen. When she first meets Cloud, she gives him a flower. She says, "Lovers used to give these when they were reunited." 

When they reunite in the church, she says, "Bodyguard work's not too different from merc stuff right?", even though Cloud never told her his profession.

 You can argue that the reason why chapter 5 includes additional substance compared to the original game is that Aerith wants to spend more time with Cloud. Cloud didn't gather flowers and perform odd jobs around Sector 5 until Aerith made the suggestion. I'd argue that Aerith put a bunch of junk on the second floor of her house to make it harder for Cloud to sneak out. Aerith also hints she knows that Don Coreno wasn't joking about dropping the Sector 7 plate.

When the cast defies fate and defeats the whisper harbinger, this leads to a new timeline being created. I believe that this means that Aerith dying can either be avoided or that event may not happen at all.  After all, after Aerith died Cloud never truly moved on. Even in spinoff titles, Cloud is Aerith-focused.

In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud becomes more like Vincent. He grieves for Aerith just like how Vincent grieved for Lucrecia. 

In Final Fantasy Tactics, Cloud is searching for Aerith. When he sees a flower girl that looks like Aerith, it furthers his resolve. In World of Final Fantasy, Terra calls out Cloud for hunting down Sephiroth instead of helping Lightning. This conversation speaks volumes.

Even at the end of the original game, Cloud says "I think I'm beginning to understand. An answer from the planet... the Promised Land. I think I can meet her... there." The 2015 trailer for Remake talks about the reunion and we see Aerith's flower. When do we hear about any reunion in Remake? When Cloud and Aerith meet for the first time in Sector 8 and she gives him the flower.

Cloud is going to defy fate and save Aerith's life. At least that's what I think. I think that the song Hollow supports this claim. I believe that Hollow is a Clerith song. It was said by Uematasu that the song describes Cloud's inner feelings. Not only does it play in the Sector 5 slums, Aerith's home, but the lyrics describe her as well.

Smile bright Once more This time I will never let you go

Need I say more? This is my conclusion. If the whole point of Remake is to defy fate then preventing this tragic loss is possible as well. The story is about not repeating the same mistakes as the previous generation to make way for a brighter future.

And before anyone says that Aerith only likes Cloud because he’s like Zack, here’s what she says after she’s done talking about Zack. 

And Cloud’s response to Aerith telling him not to fall in love with her.

I’m placing my bets now. Let’s see how right or wrong I am in a few years. If I’m wrong I will eat a bowl of peas. 

[silver-wield]

Everyone agrees ... Cloud loves Tifa when he leaves for Shinra. He says it himself during the lifestream scene and he talks about it to Zack in CC. So, if Cloud likes Tifa in Nibelheim, he definitely likes Tifa when he gets to sector 7! Why ? because for him, Nibelheim, Sephiroth, it was yesterday. between that day, then the present, he has no memories in the Mako.

I just wanted to post the kitty 😁

Yup, exactly right!

Cloud at 14 leaves for Midgar, totally in love with Tifa because the lyrics of Midgar Blues tell us he thinks of her as his one true love.

Cloud at 16 comes back to Nibelheim and avoids Tifa because he's not a SOLDIER, so feels like a failure for not keeping their promise. What he doesn't realise is Tifa has been waiting for him because she didn't care if he became a SOLDIER, she just wanted to see him again.

Tifa only brings up SOLDIER because that's what Cloud said he'd become. She's low key hoping the message will reach him, but also afraid to take the risk in case Cloud doesn't feel the same way.

Funnily enough, Tifa expresses a lot of concern for Cloud as a grunt after he got hurt trying to protect her and she didn't know it was him.

Anyway, 16 year old Cloud gets injured by Sephiroth during the Nibelheim incident and put in a tank for between 4-5 years (we'll get better timeline info as more parts come out, but I don't think him and Zack were on the run for a year after they escaped. More like a week.)

16 years old Cloud's last concern before falling unconscious was Tifa. He thought she died.

21 year old Cloud wakes fully from his mako coma after Zack's death because he hears Tifa calling his name. He's been in a comatose state for years, has a gap of time that results in him being emotionally stunted, as confirmed by Nojima, and the last time he was awake he was holding Tifa and then killed Sephiroth.

That happened last week to him.

So, last week, Cloud was 16, saw his one true love stabbed by Sephiroth, killed him, then wakes up not even knowing how old he is and sees his best friend die. He then drags his ass to Midgar, where he meets Tifa, who he thought died last week.

When did Tifa stop being his one true love? In the half a day it took for him to go from the cliff where Zack died to Midgar where he met Tifa? He thought she died a week ago and now this week she's alive again. Even if people try and say he moved on, she's right there in front of him, alive. He moved on for a week while slowly detoxing from mako poisoning and being a mute dummy, and then came fully conscious after hearing her voice, which allowed him to pull together SOLDIER Cloud.

Doesn't sound like he moved on very far if she brought him out of a mako coma his best friend couldn't. Especially when Zack was travelling with Cloud for a while.

Cloud was a mako zombie until Tifa saved him. Last week he thought he lost her. This week he's a mako zombie. Next week he's sitting in the bar calling her beautiful.

There is literally no space for him to have moved on from her being his one true love. And if she's his one true love a week ago, she is now. Which means he could never be interested in Aerith romantically because Tifa is his one true love.

Just because his feelings are locked behind a barrier doesn't mean he's unaware of them. He just can't articulate them. Because SOLDIER Cloud is a coping mechanism for real Cloud's trauma. The feelings he has still exist and always have.

And in Remake, even SOLDIER Cloud isn't denying them. Those feelings of love he can't talk about are what motivate him to care for Tifa, protect and look after her emotional wellbeing. Everything he does is for her because he can feel real Cloud's love for her, he just can't express it.

[silver-wield]

I think FF7R might be a fight between Aerith and Sephiroth or Protector vs Destroyer, but because Aerith is not as tough as Sephiroth so she needs her friends in this timeline especially Cloud and she is also trying to fix bad things that happened to other timeline like Zack who might be able to survive and My extreme mind imagines that the timeline will be put together to make the future better

I agree. The story seems to have shifted away from the OG route of Cloud vs Sephiroth although I still expect it to be Cloud vs Sephiroth in some way because Sephiroth is the common factor in both.

The thing about FF7 is it has two plots. The overarching plot belongs to Aerith, but she was killed before she had any kind of relevance in it and left it up to Cloud to carry the entire narrative, which fell short when compared to the intimate plot with Tifa because we got all the info about why they both hated Sephiroth and why they chose to fight him. It’s not a balanced narrative and some people over focused on the fact that Aerith had her toe dipped into the intimate plot and didn’t notice her lack of input on her own plot line.

That’s why I think Remake is making a bigger separation between the two. Cloud and Tifa’s plot is always going to be the same because it’s their shared narrative and never needed Aerith in it to make it work in any way.

Aerith’s plot doesn’t need anybody but Sephiroth to make it work. Because it’s her vs him. The fact the two plots intersect because of the villain doesn’t mean they can’t stand on their own without each other.

It’s why they’re on separate sides on the mural in Aerith’s room.

The plot with Cloud and Tifa is on one side and Aerith’s is the other and they both form their own complete narrative that happens to use the same villain, who is in the centre because he covers both narratives. Take everybody out of Aerith’s plot and she still has to fight Sephiroth to save the planet. She could have an entirely different set of comrades and it’ll still work the same way.

Take Aerith out of Cloud and Tifa’s plot and it still works because it never had Aerith in it to begin with.

I definitely think Aerith is aiming for a good ending this time and using whatever knowledge she got from OG to change things and “make it right.” That’s why she preemptively rejects Cloud -- but didn’t need to because he’s already giving Tifa most of his attention and focus even while he’s still soldier Cloud -- and that’s why she goes out of her way to change everything and save Zack. That’s her gold glittery stuff we see at the end that’s improving everything and changing things for the better. We see Biggs wake up and the people in the slums are still living there and rebuilding and Zack lives.

And all of these things were things she prayed for.....sorry, just hit me.

Aerith’s prayers

 She does her prayer pose when she asks if Tifa is Cloud’s gf and then later we see them growing closer and him ignoring Aerith which contradicts what we know from OG.

She prays at the pillar, possibly to save the slums, and we see Biggs alive at the end. If the whispers hadn’t interfered with Wedge he’d still be alive too. The people are rebuilding and positive.

She prays for Marlene and we see her at the end living with Elmyra, safe, so we could assume she prayed to keep Marlene safe.

She prays while looking at the lifestream and saying everyone dies eventually and we can hear notes from Price of Freedom playing among her theme, so we can assume she’s praying for Zack and we see Zack alive at the end. 

That’s why we see those scenes. It’s Aerith’s holy magic in action showing us the changes she made. 

So, if Aerith is changing things for the better by using holy, then we can assume she’s gonna do something big with the ending to make everything right. But, I also think everything comes with a price because that’s been made a point of. The price of freedom, the price of strength. Barret even says everything has a price, so there’s hints that Aerith won’t escape without paying for what she’s done. Which ties in with her death because that’s an iconic moment in the game and something the devs have promised they won’t change. They’re not gonna mess with scenes that people expect to see, but they’ll deliver them in a new and exciting way. 

Anyway, yeah, I think Aerith’s doing her best to show she’s her own heroine of her own plot and her hero is the dude she just brought back to life and not the one who needs therapy lol