#now I feel better.

[azmenka]

a'ight, cos I said the Reddit posts calling for Ironborn genocide were pissing me the f*** off . . . let's have a historical mini rant about why the Mainland simply cannot simply wipe the Ironborn off the map of Westeros, shall we.

context - about once every two weeks a new post on any given asoiaf sub-reddit pops up on my timeline asking why the Westerosi mainland doesn't simply eradicate the Ironborn entirely if they're so annoying. lemme preface this by saying that while I'm aware that we're talking about fictional people here, I personally find it pretty . . . distasteful to call for the genocide of an entire population just because you don't like them but oh well, that's just me. as an open and obvious Ironborn stan I sometimes ( yes, I admit it ) feel personally offended by this kind of bullshittery because I will continue to believe that people who don't like the Ironborn a) don't understand them and b) clearly have no idea of their overall history whatsoever. neither the showrunners nor GRRM himself unfortunately intend to ever put the Ironborn in a non-negative light however ( cowards ) so, y'know - I will.

so . . . why can't the Westerosi Mainland simply subject the Ironborn to genocide. let's see.

one. they have no reason to. shocking, I know, but there literally is not a single reason in the current timeline as to why they would even consider genociding the Ironborn. ever since the conquest, when the Greyjoys first came into power on the Iron Islands, the Ironborn have actually been behaving themselves. they have stopped raiding the mainlands and instead moved on to raid Essos instead and while, sure, Ironborn lords were never exactly faithful to the crown, they also didn't really do anything to warrant suspicion or violence against them. the only Greyjoys who did try to start shit on the mainland since the conquest were Dalton Greyjoy ( largely, mind you, by order of Rhaenyra Targaryen ) and later Dagon Greyjoy. Balon is the most recent and also the most persistent Ironborn lord in hundreds of years of peaceful co-existence, that really tried to piss the mainland off again. naturally with the crumbling of the Targaryen dynasty and then Robert's death, the Ironborn are using the overall upheaval in Westeros for their own advantage but . . . so does Stannis. so does Robb. so do the Lannisters. so do the Tyrells. they are not unique in trying to get the best possible outcome for themselves. there is no point in trying to off an entire population that literally hasn't done anything harmful to you in centuries. but let's say you're a bag of dicks and you just want to . . .

two. location. wanna know what is surprisingly difficult to conquer? especially when your naval force is limited and most of the soldiers you have are used to fighting on foot or horseback with solid ground under their feet? islands. and we're talking about multiple islands here. the Iron Islands consist of thirty-one (31!) main islands. all of them with their own lordship and each lord has control over his own little fleet of ships. for the more prominent lords, we're talking about a hundred ships per island. some larger islands, such as Pyke, Great Wyk, Harlaw or Saltcliffe are home to thousands of Ironborn. first thing you'll thus need to have if you wanna genocide a whole ass archipelago is a strong naval force. the Mainland has the Redwyne Fleet and the Royal Fleet as the two sole fleets that can match the Iron Fleet. that's good. but is it good enough? you'll need a ton of siege weapons. you'll need a lot of soldiers that are qualified to fight on water. you'll also need a ton of patience because sieges can take months ( hey, Stannis, remember eating rats? ).

so you go and start on one island. maybe two. in the time you're busy attacking those two islands, the remaining 29 will gather their hosts and either fortify the remaining main islands, gathering the folks from the smaller islands, or they'll simply disappear. it's funny how you can just leave when you have ships. and on the Iron Islands everyone has ships. they are also all armed to the teeth and have fortified their castles to withstand almost anything. ( take one look at fucking Harrenhal and you'll know what I'm talking about. and because, surprisingly, a lot of people don't know this: yes, Harrenhal was built by the Ironborn. Harren Hoare was the reigning Ironborn king during the conquest who has managed to take over the Riverlands. ) if Pyke can hold up against sea storms and the goddamn ocean itself, it can hold up against a couple of Westerosi soldiers. let's consider . . . it took the combined forces of the Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Reach, the Riverlands and the North to bring down only five (!) islands in the Greyjoy Rebellion. out of 31. and in all that, they only managed to damage one wall of Castle Pyke ( sorry Maron, I know it was your wall and you probably did your best ).

three. battle prowess. the Ironborn are one of, if not the most notoriously battle hardened people in all of Westeros. they have been a kingdom of fighters for most likely up to three thousand years, way before the Andals came to to Westeros and even longer before the conquest. their prowess in battle is legendary all the way to Essos. sure, they lack the discipline of the Mainland forces but they make up for it through fearlessness and sheer ferocity. these guys aren't scared of anything. we're talking about men going full #yolo and fighting in full-body armor on water. if they fall in and drown . . . they fall in and drown. shit happens. they don't care. historically, they have been rumored to basically go berserk on the battlefield, with their opponents saying they are "blood-drunk" and stop feeling pain. if there is one people in Westeros that was born to be warriors ( and I mean warriors, not soldiers. the reachmen are soldiers. the westermen are soldiers. none of them are warriors. ), it is the Ironborn. they live for battle. it's how they come to glory in the eye of their god. and they continuously hone their skills, too. how? through all the raids they do. when the rest of Westeros is at peace, they are at peace. they joust and have tourneys, but that is it. the Ironborn constantly seek battle through raiding. all the time. while your average Westerosi knight hits straw dummies for training, an Ironborn reaver kills six people in real time and has a beer afterwards. their idea of a fun drinking game is to throw axes at each other. need I say more? speaking of battle prowess . . . the main Iron Fleet consists of one hundred ships readied for war. those are ships that are commanded by the Lord Captain of the Iron Fleet ( hey, Victarion, who never made it into the show cos he apparently was too fucking badass for D&D to comprehend ) and belong to the Seastone Chair, but these 100 ships do not include the individual fleets of each Lord and the respective islands they govern. as GRRM himself said, each Ironborn Lord can float about 100 ships. and we know there are 31 main islands, some of which having more than one lord. so you do the math on how many ships actually can be used by the Ironborn in case of an invasion of their islands. and not just that, the Ironborn are also famously known for capturing enemy ships in battle and simply using them themselves afterwards. they thus got a hold of a variety of ships, a lot of which are bigger, faster, and more aligned with warships than the usual longships they use for raiding. ( Maron's own ship, Kingfisher, is a prime example for that, considering that she wasn't built on the Islands but claimed by Maron in a battle against some pirates just on the coastline of Great Moraq in Essos. Kingfisher thus was and still looks like a pirate ship, giving her a large belly for cargo, but also making her bigger and faster than your average longship. )

four. reputation. aks anyone in Westeros and they'll tell you the Ironborn are delulu. and they're right. sure, their reputation has changed over the centuries, but one thing is still very clear all over the Mainland: the Ironborn are insane and you don't mess with them. the Ironborn, along with the Northmen, have been there before everyone else. they are old. insanely old. they know the lands and the seas by heart, they have a reputation as "the wolves of the sea" and "the terrors of the sea" and they have worked hard to get that reputation. they also have an air of mystery around them that probably puts most of the Mainland at unease. they believe in a strange deity and they are fanatic in their religion. they perform blood sacrifice and ritual drownings. every attempt to push Mainland habits and customs on the Ironborn has largely failed. knightdom is barely a thing, most Ironborn don't employ Maesters or similar Mainland house staff and most don't follow Westerosi customs with titles etc either. Balon, for example, wasn't adressed as "Lord Greyjoy" but "the Greyjoy", just as Aeron refers to the ruling Lord of House Merlyn as "the Merlyn" ( write that down for interactions with Maron, btw. he won't correct you if you call him "Lord Greyjoy", but he won't title himself that what ). the people on the Mainland simply don't understand them and thus have started to "other" them because, naturally, that's what you do when you don't understand something and it scares you. they are known to be exceptionally stubborn and if you try and tell and Ironborn what to do, at best he'll show you the finger. I have said it before and I will die on this hill: the only reason why they were subdued by the Mainland was the threat of dragons. that is it. these people would have never bent the knee if Aegon didn't threaten to kill them all via dragonfire. and if you don't think that invading a foreign kingdom that has never done anything to you with a force that simply cannot be matched and telling those folks to kneel or die is a real dick move overall then you have issues, my friend. another hill I will forever happily die on is that ( hear me out ) the reason why Theon was taken and given to the Starks as a hostage to be killed if Balon acted up again was not to threaten Balon's line of succession but because the Westerosi lords that decided on this were scared shitless of what Balon was capable of if he tried again. all that being said, keep in mind that Balon is a fucking idiot and entirely incompetent and they still feared him. all the mockery we see of the Ironborn at court, to me, forever screams masking fear. belittle something enough and you may believe it really isn't significant, but deep down they all know they are wrong.

so now . . . we have Euron. and while we can all agree that Euron is an awful pile of garbage human being and deserves a most horrible death, I, personally, do believe Euron is exactly what Westeros deserves for all those centuries of oppressing and belittling and subdueing a people they had no business of messing with in the first place. we applaud the slaves rising against their slavers in Meereen, we applaud the fight for Northern independence and most people I know fully support Dornish independence, too. the Ironborn deserve it just as much, if not more because no other former kingdom was as disrespected since the conquest as the Ironborn. and up until now, the Ironborn quietly sat it all out and let it happen. abiding their time and waiting. so sure, let the Mainland try and genocide them. go ahead. just remember that it would be the dumbest dick move in history.

[mroddmod]

everyone be quiet i'm manifesting

[stemmmm]

more people gotta try this shit where bill has not improved and will not change but he's just chilling so its fine probably. its great

[samipekoe]

grandmas hanging out

[sqrkyclean]

being vulnerable for a second to use my pooltoy furry oc to convey what recovering from contamination ocd has been like while undergoing hrt.

[akanemnon]

Yeah, Kris is definitely NOT alright.

FIRST - PREVIOUS - NEXT

MASTERPOST (for the full series / FAQ / reference sheets)

[pangur-and-grim]

Pangur is THRILLED that I have mono! her favourite thing in the world is napping with me

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Soup solves everything.

[aur0raaura]

Yknow what- you're so right...

[xxacidnekoxx]

Pega bottom surgery

[ducktollers]

best friends

[bigfatbreak]

Birds of a Feather previous / next

[giantkillerjack]

Today my therapist introduced me to a concept surrounding disability that she called "hLep".

[plain-text version of this post can be found under the cut]

Which is when you - in this case, you are a disabled person - ask someone for help ("I can't drink almond milk so can you get me some whole milk?", or "Please call Donna and ask her to pick up the car for me."), and they say yes, and then they do something that is not what you asked for but is what they think you should have asked for ("I know you said you wanted whole, but I got you skim milk because it's better for you!", "I didn't want to ruin Donna's day by asking her that, so I spent your money on an expensive towing service!") And then if you get annoyed at them for ignoring what you actually asked for - and often it has already happened repeatedly - they get angry because they "were just helping you! You should be grateful!!"

And my therapist pointed out that this is not "help", it's "hLep".

Sure, it looks like help; it kind of sounds like help too; and if it was adjusted just a little bit, it could be help. But it's not help. It's hLep.

At its best, it is patronizing and makes a person feel unvalued and un-listened-to. Always, it reinforces the false idea that disabled people can't be trusted with our own care. And at its worst, it results in disabled people losing our freedom and control over our lives, and also being unable to actually access what we need to survive.

So please, when a disabled person asks you for help on something, don't be a hLeper, be a helper! In other words: they know better than you what they need, and the best way you can honor the trust they've put in you is to believe that!

Also, I want to be very clear that the "getting angry at a disabled person's attempts to point out harmful behavior" part of this makes the whole thing WAY worse. Like it'd be one thing if my roommate bought me some passive-aggressive skim milk, but then they heard what I had to say, and they apologized and did better in the future - our relationship could bounce back from that. But it is very much another thing to have a crying shouting match with someone who is furious at you for saying something they did was ableist. Like, Christ, Jessica, remind me to never ask for your support ever again! You make me feel like if I asked you to call 911, you'd order a pizza because you know I'll feel better once I eat something!!

Edit: crediting my therapist by name with her permission - this term was coined by Nahime Aguirre Mtanous!

Edit again: I made an optional follow-up to this post after seeing the responses. Might help somebody. CW for me frankly talking about how dangerous hLep really is.

Plain-text version:

Today my therapist introduced me to a concept surrounding disability that she called "hLep".

Which is when you - in this case, you are a disabled person - ask someone for help ("I can't drink almond milk so can you get me some whole milk?", or "Please call Donna and ask her to pick up the car for me."), and they say yes, and then they do something that is not what you asked for but is what they think you should have asked for ("I know you said you wanted whole, but I got you skim milk because it's better for you!", "I didn't want to ruin Donna's day by asking her that, so I spent your money on an expensive towing service!") And then if you get annoyed at them for ignoring what you actually asked for - and often it has already happened repeatedly - they get angry because they "were just helping you! You should be grateful!!"

And my therapist pointed out that this is not "help", it's "hLep".

Sure, it looks like help; it kind of sounds like help too; and if it was adjusted just a little bit, it could be help. But it's not help. It's hLep.

At its best, it is patronizing and makes a person feel unvalued and un-listened-to. Always, it reinforces the false idea that disabled people can't be trusted with our own care. And at its worst, it results in disabled people losing our freedom and control over our lives, and also being unable to actually access what we need to survive.

So please, when a disabled person asks you for help on something, don't be a hLeper, be a helper! In other words: they know better than you what they need, and the best way you can honor the trust they've put in you is to believe that!

P.S. Also, I want to be very clear that the "getting angry at a disabled person's attempts to point out harmful behavior" part of this makes the whole thing WAY worse. Like it'd be one thing if my roommate bought me some passive-aggressive skim milk, but then they heard what I had to say, and they apologized and did better in the future - our relationship could bounce back from that. But it is very much another thing to have a crying shouting match with someone who is furious at you for saying something they did was ableist. Like, Christ, Jessica, remind me to never ask for your support ever again! You make me feel like if I asked you to call 911, you'd order a pizza because you know I'll feel better once I eat something!!

Edit: crediting my therapist by name with her permission - this term was coined by Nahime Aguirre Mtanous!

Edit again: I made an optional follow-up to this post after seeing the responses. Might help somebody. CW for me frankly talking about how dangerous hLep really is.

[mythalism]

[kikker-oma]

Is it still awkward family photos if it's technically only Four??

Yes😉

A gift for dear sweet @luna-loveboop so she can get better! I'm sorry you've been so sick for so long, love🥺❤️

[hinamie]

sidelong