#novel/cql discussions

[lgbtlunaverse]

Most annoying NMJ or JC take is when someone that dislikes them is like "oh you're a fan of him? *scoff* Well obviously you've only seen cql, where he was super watered down. In the novel he's a dislikable asshole and that's the objectively superior canon I'm working from instead of your woobified fanfic." Meanwhile your main canon is novel canon and you genuinely find novel Jiang Cheng and Nie Mingjue complex sympathetic characters.

[l-wandering-etranger]

oh and another take that I feel the mxtx- specifically mdzs fandom needs to hear is that none and i mean none of the characters have any set morality. this applies to their mindset, actions, feelings- the entire point is that you see where all the characters come from and recognise their actions. none of them are completely 100% good or bad. the point of the entire novel isn't to see and judge their actions. it's to see where they come from, what mindset requires those terrible or honourable actions. is it okay to call out a character on their actions? yes. but please for the love of mo xiang tong xiu remember what caused those actions and whether your call out is necessary instead of making posts like "character A was just trying his best and character B came and ruined everything that's why I hate character C". no. almost all the characters are shitty to some extent albeit in different categories. recognise that and you will appreciate mdzs even more.

[labyrynth]

in the spirit of pettiness statistics, i wanted to make my own version of that biased poll from the other day so that we can have OUR OWN completely inconclusive results!

Please consider reblogging, since lots of people don’t check main/character tags!

[raindrops-on-concrete]

at this point they could've just cut the first three episodes and told the entire story chronologically. I mean, what's the point in a flashback if it's not there to enrich the main storyline? I feel like whoever wrote the script for The Untamed didn't really think about why MDZS was told in the way and the order it was.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

(via @spriteofmushrooms)

no you're right and you should say it tbqh.

@mdzsnet ➝ One Year with The Untamed Event ⤷ June 21st: Favourite Character ⋆ Lan Xichen

[oyasumiaow]

ugh. deletes three different text posts that are just me being a hater for no reason

[doufudanshi]

ON GHOSTS AND DEMONS: Wei Wuxian's "demonic" cultivation?

There are a few big misconceptions I have repeatedly seen in English-speaking fandom about things that are fundamental to the story of MDZS. One of them is this—

Wei Wuxian is not a demonic cultivator.

To prove this, let's take a deep dive into the original Chinese text of MDZS.

(Adapted from my original gdoc posted on Twitter on May 27, 2022. All translations my own unless otherwise stated.)

Demon vs. ghost

Let's start from the very basics. In addition to orthodox cultivation using spiritual energy and a golden core, there are two other forms of cultivation that are mentioned in the novel:

魔道 (mó dào), or “demon cultivation/path.”

鬼道 (guǐ dào), or “ghost cultivation/path.”

To be clear, 魔 mo "demons" and 鬼 gui "ghosts" (and thus their respective cultivation/paths) are not interchangeable because of the in-universe worldbuilding within MDZS. Using the characters in the term 妖魔鬼怪 "monsters," MXTX created four distinct categories of beings, each of which has a strict definition in the novel. From chapter 4 (jjwxc ch 13):

妖者非人之活物所化; 魔者生人所化; 鬼者死者所化; 怪者非人之死物所化。 Yāo (妖) are transformed from non-human living beings; mó (魔) are transformed from living people; guǐ (鬼) are transformed from the deceased; guài (怪) are transformed from non-human dead beings.

And of course, WWX hoards all the ghost-type pokemon monsters at the Phoenix Mountain tournament, and he only exerts control over corpses, spirits, and the like (aka people who have already died). (As opposed to Xue Yang, who appears to have been actively trying to make 魔 "demons" out of living people with those "living corpses" of his, perhaps.) (And, ironically, in order to avoid showing necromancy / zombies on screen, CQL technically does show WWX practicing demon cultivation because everyone is "supposedly alive" even when they're corpses? Which is, funnily enough, far worse morally in the MDZS universe, lol.)

So, intuitively at least, we know that WWX must be practicing ghost cultivation—now let's look at some concrete examples from the book.

Running the numbers

1) 魔道 (mó dào) means “demon cultivation.” As such, it must use living humans.

魔道 appears one (1) time in the novel.

Yes, once. The only time it appears is in the term 魔道祖师 modao zushi, or the namesake of the novel, in chapter 2. This is a title the general public has given him through rumors:

魏无羡好歹也被人叫了这么多年无上邪尊啦、魔道祖师啦之类的称号，这种一看就知道不是什么好东西的阵法，他自然了如指掌。 Wei Wuxian wasn’t called titles like “The Evil Overlord,” “The Founder of Demon Cultivation,” and so on over the years by others for nothing—he knew these sorts of obviously shady formations like the back of his hand.

2) 鬼道 (guǐ dào) means “ghost cultivation.” As such, it must use dead humans. 

鬼道 appears 12 times in the novel.

Here is the first instance that 鬼道 appears, which I believe is the first time Wei Wuxian's method of cultivation is properly introduced. From chapter 3 (jjwxc ch 8):

蓝忘机 […] 对魏无羡修鬼道一事极不认可。 Lan Wangji […] had never approved of the fact that Wei Wuxian practiced ghost cultivation.

Here's another quote from chapter 15 (jjwxc ch 71) for funsies:

蓝忘机看着他，似乎一眼就看出他只是随口敷衍，吸了一口气，道：“魏婴。” Lan Wangji looked at him as if he saw through his half-hearted bluff. He took in a breath, then said, “Wei Ying.” 他执拗地道：“鬼道损身，损心性。” He stubbornly continued, “Ghost cultivation harms one’s body, and harms one’s nature.”

3) 邪魔歪道 (xiemowaidao) means heretical path/immoral methods/evil practices/underhanded means/etc—e.g., lying, cheating, stealing, bribery, and so on.

It appears ~24 times in the novel.

I mention this last term because it is often used to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation, but as a pejorative. Every instance of 邪魔歪道 is said by or to quote someone looking down upon Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (Jin Zixun, Jin Ling, etc.) and referring to it derogatorily, whereas every instance of 鬼道 guidao/ghost dao is said by someone discussing it neutrally and/or factually (Lan Jingyi, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian himself, random cultivators at discussion conferences, the narration, etc.). Here is a pertinent example with Jin Ling (derogatory) and Lan Jingyi (neutral) in chapter 9 (jjwxc ch 43):

金凌怒道：“是在谈论薛洋，我说的不对吗？薛洋干了什么？他是个禽兽不如的人渣，魏婴比他更让人恶心！什么叫‘不能一概而论’？这种邪魔歪道留在世上就是祸害，就是该统统都杀光，死光，灭绝！” “We are discussing Xue Yang,” Jin Ling said angrily. “Am I wrong? What did Xue Yang do? He’s scum that’s lower than a beast, and Wei Ying is even more disgusting than him! What do you mean ‘don’t make sweeping generalizations?’ As long as those practicing this kind of demoniac, heretical path are alive, they’ll continue to bring disaster. We should slaughter all of them, kill all of them, annihilate them once and for all!” 温宁动了动，魏无羡摆手示意他静止。只听蓝景仪也加入了，嚷道：“你发这么大火干什么？思追又没说魏无羡不该杀，他只是说修鬼道的也不一定全都是薛洋这种人，你有必要乱摔东西吗？那个我还没吃呢……” Wen Ning shuffled around. Wei Wuxian gestured at him to stay still, only to hear Lan Jingyi also cut in loudly, “Why are you getting so riled up? It’s not like Sizhui said Wei Wuxian shouldn’t have been killed. All he said was that people who practice ghost cultivation aren’t necessarily all like Xue Yang. Do you have to go around breaking things? I didn’t even get to eat any of that yet…”

Tl;dr—Wei Wuxian does not 修魔道 practice demon cultivation. When Wei Wuxian’s craft is discussed in a neutral and factual manner, it is referred to as 鬼道 ghost dao. 

In fact, Wei Wuxian’s imitators are also referred to explicitly as 鬼道修士 ghost cultivators.

魏无羡早就听说过，这些年来江澄到处抓疑似夺舍重生的鬼道修士，把这些人通通押回莲花坞严刑拷打。 Wei Wuxian had heard a while back that over the past few years, Jiang Cheng had gone around snatching any ghost cultivator suspected of being possessed or reborn, detaining them in Lotus Pier to interrogate them using torture.

So why the confusion?

Of course, there is the matter of the novel's title, which I will get into in a second. But the real issue is a matter of translation.

The idea that WWX uses "demonic cultivation" is a misconception in English-speaking fandom due to issues with the translation of terminology. Of note, EXR actually did translate 鬼道 guidao as "ghostly path" most of the time, though there were at least 3 instances of "demonic" and 1 instance of "dark," especially regarding the first few.

However, this misconception was perpetuated (and arguably worsened) by 7S's official translation, which not only mistranslated additional terms as "demonic cultivation/path" (at least in book 1), but also consistently mistranslated every instance of 鬼道 as "demonic cultivation/path."

So why is this book called 魔道祖师, commonly translated as "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation?"

One possibility is one posed in Chinese-language meta online, which often cites that WWX himself is a sort of 魔 demon. While this may be true—after all, he can hear the voices of the dead—it doesn't quite explain the fact that the title sets him up to be the 祖师 or "founder."

My take is that this novel is very much concerned with hearsay vs. truth. This is one of the many monikers WWX is given by the public, who collectively view him as evil. (Also of note is that the non-cultivator public is not aware of all the nuances that cultivators learn re: distinctions between the 妖魔鬼怪 monsters.) In the quote from earlier, note that the first title we're given is actually 无上邪尊 “The Evil Overlord,” then 魔道祖师 "The Founder of Demon Cultivation." Like, what can that be other than MXTX telling us, "please take both of these with a HUGE grain of salt, lol."

(And not only the title, but the very first line—"魏无羡死了。" / "Wei Wuxian is dead."—is a lie.)

I think the title is genius, honestly. It intentionally makes readers come into the novel with preconceived notions that Wei Wuxian practices 魔道 demon cultivation and evil techniques—just like the public in the novel. What better way to tell a story warning about the dangers of how easy it is to fall for misinformation and jump to incorrect conclusions?

(Though, in our case, perhaps it worked a little too well.)

[thatswhatsushesaid]

re: my tags about jgy and qin su in my reblog of that "does your blorbo have ptsd" tumblr poll, can we revisit that excruciating conversation in the jinlintai treasure room in cql? because one of my least favourite reads on jgy's expression and body language here is that he's being "creepy." and to be clear, i'm not trying to say you're wrong to draw those inferences here, because his behaviour is deeply, deeply unsettling, and i also find this scene hard to watch and to read in the novel. but i think if that's where your examination of him begins and ends here, you're doing yourself--and zhu zanjin's exquisite performance--a disservice.

so the 'creepy' bit is preceded by what jgy says to qin su while she has her back turned, and i find his words heartbreakingly sincere and very reflective of a man who has spent his life forced to feel shame and embarrassment over his mother, who he loves dearly and who he watched suffer right up until the moment of her death:

there are a few more very poignant lines in there about his mother and the depth of his gratitude to qin su (these show up in the novel, too), but i think the above encapsulates the same message. then the atmosphere shifts, and so does jgy's expression when he talks about jin rusong and how his death would have been inevitable--essential, even. this is also where i most often see him described as acting like a creep, and i have two separate responses to this that i don't really have the time to get into right now, but which have both doylist and watsonian components to them so 👀 you can probably make some guesses about what my arguments would be. if there's enough interest, i might come back to this later and put together a separate post about it, idk. anyway, i'm not going to get into the 'is he a creep' argument here because tl;dr no, i don't think he is, and also--

i find jgy's expressions here to be more indicative of a man who is, shall we say, Not His Best Self At The Moment 🫠 rather than a man who is intentionally trying to make a wife who, by her own admission, he has treated very well for the entirety of their marriage, uncomfortable. his attention isn't even on qin su or the hell that she is experiencing right now--because he is re-experiencing his own hell. because he, too, is traumatized by this knowledge! he's just had a decade and change to develop some deeply unhealthy coping mechanisms and masking techniques to hide it.

at this point qin su whips around and slaps him, which i know everyone likes to gif and fistbump and holler about in a positive way, but given there is no one in this scene who isn't enduring profound trauma in this moment, i, uh. you know. won't be doing that. i will focus on his face journey in the expressions that follow because they are just so

dissociating

dissociating

dissociating

/executive function switch is flipped in his superbly wrinkly brain, and then "qin su :) we still have so many guests to attend at the discussion conference :)"

a-yao? sir?? hello??? also i do not have the quote from the novel directly in front of me, but iirc he says something very similar here to what he does in the novel, which i'll have to paraphrase: that this revelation is only bothering qin su so much because she is actively thinking about it! it's only thoughts, you see! just don't think about it! haven't they actually been very happy all this time, while only one of them had to live with this knowledge and could not share it with anyone?

to which i can only respond with abject, horrified shock because, like. have you, jin guangyao? been happy and unperturbed by this devastating knowledge? because i think the answer is a pretty definitive no.

anyway i just wanted to quickly keymash my thoughts on this before they fled my brain completely but tl;dr yes, while jgy would not use this language to describe himself, he's absolutely got ptsd specifically around his marriage to his own half-sister, and their son.

---

this post has been added to my dreamwidth meta archive here: https://thatswhatsushewrote.dreamwidth.org/10607.html

[wangxianficfinder]

In The Mood For...

June 22nd

~*~

1. Hi, i really like your blog, it is very helpful, i was wondering if you could find a wangxian fanfics that are completely fluff, just wangxian living their post-canon, domestic lives, as husbands. humor is preferred.

Thank you, if you have already replied to a request similar to mine, please just link that blog in the answer. @honestlyewww

As You Like It by cosmicmilktea (T, 8k, wangxian, post-canon, food as a metaphor for love, tea, light angst, fluff)

The (Several) Convenient Kidnappings of the Chief Cultivator by the Yiling Patriarch by misscam (M, 3k, WangXian, Humor, Spoilers, mush of series and novel, some adult action, Switching)

Wei Wuxian, God of Fertility by tired (T, 19k, WangXian, Family Feels, Crack Treated Seriously, Crack, the juniors get REAL drunk, Gossip, POV Multiple, surprisingly not an mpreg fic, Kissing, Self-Esteem Issues, Discussion of Porn and Sex, Post-Canon, SOFT SOFT SOFT, married wangxian, Fluff and Humor)

The Grandmaster of Demonic Reproduction by likeafox (E, 7k, WangXian, Kid Fic, not mpreg, but not-not mpreg?, Pregnancy Kink, Come play, LSZ deserves a sibling)

~*~

2. Hi, I'm itmf Wei Ying with split personality (Preferably canon era) Thank you!

~*~

3. For the next ITMF, I wanna see travelling with Li'l Apple! Gimme your fics that talk about our fave cantankerous donkey. @mreisse

Wearing Down Every Bone by CSHfic, VSfic (E, 30k, WangXian, Groundhog Day, Time Loop, Temporary Character Death, Hurt/Comfort, Post-Canon, Case Fic, Curses, Pining, Getting Together, Time Travel, Night Hunts, Hurt wwx, Mystery, Angst with a Happy Ending, Use Your Words, Mutual Pining, Depression and Unhealthy Coping Mechanisms, gratuitous use of empathy)

lost my fear of falling by thefireplanet (E, 30k, WangXian, HuaLIan, Bodyswap, Wei "My Intrusive Thoughts Are Totally Not Winning" Wuxian, Hua "My Husband Said I Had to Help You" Cheng, YLLZ WWX, WWX-centric, WangXian-centric, Post-Canon, Canon-Typical Violence, Case Fic, Canon-Typical Wangxian Sex Things, One (1) Obscure War Movie Reference, mawage, Mawage is what brings us togeder tooday)

~*~

4. ITMF where JYL and JWY reliazed that WWX is in danger if he stay in Lotus Pier. That threats can come from YZY or JFM or the cultivation world. Just that i want to read a fic where JYL and JWY try to protect WWX @idontknowwhattowriteforusername

🧡 To have and to hold by Moominmammashandbag (M, 78k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Major character injury, CQL verse, Happy Ending)

The Hate and Love of family by Moonlit_dewdrops (T, 20k, WangXian, WIP, Abuse, Near Death, Bad Parent YZY, YZY's A+ Parenting, Protective JC, Protective JYL, Recovery, Trauma, Protective LWJ, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Dynamics, Good Uncle LQR, Not YZY Friendly, Hurt WWX, Panic Attacks)

I Have Arranged to Tie You to Me by xxxMiaHikarixxx (G, 59k, WIP, WangXian, Lan protective team, Time Travel, Past, LWJ oriented, Arranged Marriage, Boys In Love, Soulmates, Fix-It, Jiang siblings, not jiang parents friendly, Soft LWJ, Protective LWJ, Genius WWX)

a life without sun by thankgodforpandas (T, 30k, WangXian, JC & LXC, JC & WWX, Canon Divergence, Everyone Lives, Mutual Pining) which is a bit different but features a protective Jiang Cheng who works to help Wei Wuxian find happiness.

What If..... Jiang Cheng Understood? by ToxicAngel13 (M, 66k, WIP, WangXian, Ribbons, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, WangXian Get Married in the Cold Springs Cave, Protective JC, Confused WWX, Angry LWJ, Fix-It of Sorts, Good Uncle LQR, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, POV LQR, YZY Bashing, POV JFM, Not JFM Friendly, Hurt/Comfort, Protective NHS)

~*~

5. Hi!!! I couldn't find a tag for wwx with short hair, so I was wondering if anyone had any recs? I would prefer for it to not be a modern au tho, thank you!

Mud on Your Feet by AvoOwO (Not Rated, 59k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Nightmares, Sentient Burial Mounds, Burial Mounds, Possession, Panic Attacks, Night Terrors, Hurt/Comfort, Fluff, Good Sibling JC, Hurt WWX, Soft WangXian, Feels, Blood and Injury, Hallucinations, Delusions, JC Loves WWX, Insomnia, Good Sibling WWX, Sleepwalking, Sleeptalking, LWJ just wants to sleep with his husband, Protective JC, WWX Sees Dead People, LJY pulls through, POV LWJ, Cloud Recesses, PTSD, Post-Canon, YLLZ WWX, resentful energy, Fluff, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Thirteen Years of WWX's Death, WWX's Three Months in the Burial Mounds, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, WWX is tired, LWJ literally just wants to sleep with WWX again is that too much to ask for??, Soft JC, Yunmeng Siblings Feels) wwx gets short hair near the end

Cloudy Memories Recessed by FirefliesNLightningBugs (M, 7k, WIP, JC & JYL & WWX, Adopted Sibling Relationship, Sunshot Campaign, Good Person JZX, Good Sibling JC, Good Sibling JYL, Amnesia, (kind of), Weird Magic, Demonic Cultivation, post wwx disappearing during sunshot campaign, POV Alternating, POV JC, POV JYL, POV WWX) wwx short hair request, there is a ao3 wip called "cloudy memories recessed" by FirefliesNLightningBugs that's set during sunshot post-escape from bm and his hair is so damaged it had to be cut off

~*~

6. Worlds most random in the mood for request… but is there any fic that features Transformers? The idea spawned in my brain and it’s haunting me. Autobots, Decepticons and Wangxian, I can’t be the first person to have thought of that. @cullen-blue23

~*~

7. recs of wwx sad or crying bc of lwj, and lwj feels guilty? thanks for all your hard work!

Honesty is the Best Policy (Except if You’re an Asshole) by piecrust (E, 22k, WangXian, Porn with Feelings, College/University)

🔒 Life is Like a Stranger by through_shadows_falling (T, 69k, wangxian, Kid Fic, Child LWJ, Child WWX, First Meetings, Canon Divergence, Cute Kids, Orphan WWX, Autism Spectrum, Fix-It, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Alternate Canon, POV LWJ, Growing Up Together, WWX raised at Cloud Recesses, Fluff and Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Puberty, Growing Up, Coming Out, teenage angst, Wet Dream, Pining, This fic gets a little raunchier as the kids become teens, But it won’t get too explicit, Slow Burn, Friends to Lovers, Spanish Translation, Brief mentions/moments of WWX kissing others in chapter 22 but only on the cheek, also characters kiss WWX on the cheek in chapter 23, but his real first kiss is with LWJ, Перевод на русский | Translation in Russian) Not sure if this is what 7 is looking for because both Wei Wuxian & Lan Wangji are children when Lan Wangji makes Wie Wuxian cry but Life is Like a Stranger. The crying and guilt take place in chapter 4.

Reconnaissance by TomatenMark (M, 2k, WangXian, POV LWJ, Post-Sunshot Campaign, Hurt/Comfort, Implied/Referenced Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Arguing, Head Injury, LWJ loses his temper, Then instantly regrets it, WWX Whump, WWX Needs a Break, Ambiguous/Open Ending, Where are we? In what point of the timeline? Don't know, there are only vibes here)

~*~

8. itmf fics where there is no war, but wwx eventually leaves the jiang sect anyway--bonus points if it's an unavoidable result of wwx & jc's conflicting values. doesn't need to be bashing--i just want to explore a timeline where wwx can make the choice for himself to walk away, rather than being pushed into a hundred corners by canon

Dispersing Clouds by dreamingofcake (E, 258k, WangXian, WIP, Canon Divergence, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Abusive YZY, Canonical Child Abuse, Hurt/Comfort, Slow Burn, Eventual Sex, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm (Background Character), Background Character Deaths, child deaths, Canon JC, Good Uncle LQR, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Cultivation Sect Politics, Homophobia, Heteronormativity, Feelings Realization, WWX is Not Oblivious) Pretty much exactly as requested. No war as the Wens are distracted by infighting, WWX leaves LP due to value conflicts

Debts of a Child Part 2 by Hauntcats (M, 111k, WangXian, YZY Bashing, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Angst and Feels, lots of anger, JC Bashing, not Jiang friendly, Angst with a Happy Ending, Content warning for icky spiders in later chapters., hurt no comfort for Jiang siblings.)

~*~

9. heyyy admins! any soulmate au's? thanks!

leading tone by silencemostofall (G, 32k, WangXian, Modern AU, Soulmates, with a lil twist, Eventual Happy Ending, Music, Orchestra, [Podfic] Leading Tone by silencemostofall by Beria1021)

pastel by antebunny (G, 6k, WangXian, Modern AU, College/University, Soulmates, Heavy Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Found Family, Self-Esteem Issues, Misunderstandings, Angst with a Happy Ending, Unrequited Love, but not actually, no courtesy names)

Bleachwhite Linen by MonocerosRex (T, 44k, WangXian, LXC & LWJ, LXC & WWX, JYL & WWX, JC & WWX, LSZ & WWX & LWJ, Modern, Soulmates, not the traditional kind of soulmates exactly, Hospitals, Fluff, Everything is Beautiful and Nothing Hurts, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, Non-Sexual Intimacy, Touch-Starved, lwj and wwx are the softest husbands and they aren't even together yet, Getting Together, Marriage Proposal, Sibling Bonding, handwaving medical procedure and magical systems, worldbuilding is for chumps i'm here for the sugar, Sickfic, or more like convalescence fic but that isn't a tag, POV Multiple, Family Feels, Family Fluff, lxc is a troll and he ships wangxian so hard, wwx deserves and gets gets hugs, Sharing a Bed, Hair Washing, Sleepy Cuddles, Hugs, JYL is a queen)

it goes like this by moonsteps (T, 15k, WangXian, College/University, Soulmates, Soulmate-Identifying Timers, Humor, Fluff, Oblivious WWX, in which wwx is jealous… of himself, some drunken LWJ shenanigans, someone pls save JC, two idiots in love)

💖 nothing you confess by PorcupineGirl (T, 31k, WangXian, Soulmates, Soulmate-Identifying Marks, POV Alternating, Golden Core Reveal, Depressed WWX, WWX Has PTSD, JC & LWJ Friendship, friendship may be too strong a word more like allies who are gonna love the shit outta post-burial-mounds WWX whether he likes it or not, Hurt/Comfort, Recovery)

💖 The Cruelty of Fate by Procrastination_Sensation (T, 15k, WangXian, Major Character Death, Canonical Character Death, Soulmates, Angst with a Happy Ending)

💖 What if you're making me all I was meant to be by WishingStar (T, 12k, WangXian, LSZ & LJY, Angst with a Happy Ending, Soulmates, Time Travel)

🔒💖 No Matter What I Do I Feel The Pain (With or Without Goose) by Trickster_Angel (T, 3k, WangXian, Soulmates, The Soulmate Goose of Enforcement, Crack, Not tagging animal abuse but they have to fight off the geese, Not Serious, Humor, First Kiss)

🔒💖 to hold the wind by androids_fighting93, artbysongs (E, 62k, WangXian, JYL/MM, Soulmates, Modern, Reincarnation, College/University, Slow Burn, Friends to Lovers, Mutual Pining, Hurt/Comfort, Disownment, LWJ Loves Rabbits, Touch-Starved LWJ)

the heartlines on our hands by occultings (microcomets) (E, 47k, wangxian, Soulmates AU, Angst with a Happy Ending, Mutual Pining, First Time, Canon Divergence, Canonical Character Death)

the river and the sea by sasamelons (T, 7k, WangXian, Soulmates, Arranged Marriage, Misunderstandings, Angst with a Happy Ending, Idiots in Love, Falling In Love, Soulmate-Identifying Marks, Mutual Pining)

🔒 Bright the Day We Met by ereshai (G, 1k, WangXian, Soulmate-Identifying Marks, POV Outsider, Fluff, Supportive LXC, Soulmates)

~*~

10. any fics where A) lwj is afraid of losing a-yuan/sizhui? not exactly afraid but like sad, scared etc? maybe something bad happened, or to the wens/wwx, or someone claims a-yuan is theirs, along those lines.

B) same thing but a-yuan is scared of losing lwj instead?

thank you for your work!

~*~

11. Itmf: (long fics only please)

A) lwj looooves carrying wwx in his arms. Doesn't matter whoever sees. It's his love y'all.

B) idol wwx or actor wwx or wangxian in showbiz

11B)

life, drama and action by Akai__hana (G, 13k, WangXian, XuanLi, singer!lwj, actor!wwx, Social Media AU, Fluff and Humor, Established Relationship, Fluff and Crack)

Some of You by tangerinechar (M, 60k, WangXian, Modern AU, Social Media, Actor AU, Idiots in Love, Mutual Pining, Fluff, Love Confessions, Matchmaking, Light Angst)

The Fault in Our Stars by Vamillepudding (T, 17k, WangXian, Modern AU, Getting Together, Romantic Comedy, Comedy of Errors, Misunderstandings, the title makes it sound like a cancer story, it’s not a cancer story)

Ornaments Under the Stars by trippednfell (M, 62k, wangxian, Modern, Inspired by Hallmark Christmas Movies, the wangxian Hallmark Movie AU no one asked for, plot and title were randomly generated, Kidfic, Disabled Character, debilitating injury as substitute for missing golden core, Additional Warnings In Author’s Note, Angst with a Happy Ending, Guest starring Lan Zhan’s sky blue coat, The Coat deserves its own tag, disordered eating habits - not a major plot point, WIP)

All My Songs I Wrote to Find You by Winxhelina (T, 8k, WangXian, Social Media, Bullying, Immortal LWJ & WWX, Scheming NHS, Musicians, Explicit Language, Kissing, Making Out)

~*~

12. Can i ask for a recommendation for Time Travel like the Four Juniors (Lan Shizui, Jin Ling, Lan Jinyi and Ozouyang) (i'm so sorry if i spell there names wrong) went to the past and met there parents

Or the past went to the future

Time, Time, Time by skeletonofaplant (G, 44k, wangxian, JYL/JZX, LSZ & WWX, JYL & JL & JZX, LJY & LSZ, Time Travel Fix-It, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Identity Porn, Identity Reveal, Angst, Fluff, Junior Quartet Dynamics, Time Travelling Junior Ensemble, Junior Ensemble Shenanigans, Humor)

Time Travel, Obviously by nirejseki (Not Rated, 1k, Time Travel, Crack)

❤️ Tragedy is Not the End by Hobbsy3 (T, 358k, wangxian, Time Travel, Torture, Hurt/Comfort, Golden Core Reveal, Canon Divergence from Qiongqi Pass, Angst with a Happy Ending, Implied/Referenced Rape/Non-con, Yunmeng sibling bonding, good dad wwx, good dad lwj, JZX Lives, JYL Lives, Junior Quartet Dynamics)

~*~

13. Hey guys! Any fanfic recommendations with Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji fighting and arguing, but with a happy ending? Especially if they are in an established relationship @livesformitski

KILF (Knits I'd Like To Fuck in) by ScarlettStorm (E, 168k, wangxian, modern, sex work, fiber arts, 2nd in series) this one has a substantial Wangxian fight that ends well

~*~

14. Hi!!! I have something for the next ITMF.

I'm feeling kinda angsty today, so are there any fics where Lan Zhan sacrifices himself for Wei Ying's happiness?

It could be any kind of sacrificial method and Wei Ying doesn't know of Lan Zhan's sacrifice until it's too late. Wei Ying could try getting him back through any means (time travel, necromancy, etc) except for sacrificing himself :D

Thank you and keep up the good work!

~*~

15. Hello! If you accept nsfw asks, I am looking for WangXian fics where dragonJi has *ahem* dragonly endowments downstairs. The classic antlers and tail is good too, but I am particularly looking for lemons where non-human anatomy comes into play. There is a bit of this in Paths Of Light And Darkness Converge, if anyone wants an example. Thank you! 🐉

🔒 dragons white to ride by RoseThorne (E, <1k, WangXian, Dragon LWJ, LWJ Has Two Penises, Multiple Orgasms, Implied Future Mpreg, First Time, Wedding Night, POV Third Person, POV WWX, Overstimulation, Podfic Welcome, Crack Treated Seriously)

~*~

16. For ITMF, I'm wondering if there are fics out there where LWJ & WWX can wield each others' swords. I've read something where WWX can use Bichen due to a partial core transplant from LWJ, but I'm interested in anything where the swords recognise their owner's soulmate? @thispatternismine

Lost and Found by dea_liberty (M, 36k, WangXian, JC & WWX, SL/XXC, Post-Canon, Found Families, a lot of feelings, Epilogue, Marriage, so many feelings, Some angst, Canon-Compliant, Brotherly Love, angst with happy ending, Much-needed reconciliations, outsider pov, Fix-It, WWX has some PTSD to deal with, Minor Violence) it's not the focus but it comes up in the first part of "Lost and Found" and is revisited near the end of the fifth part (LWJ can unsheathe and wield Suibian)

~*~

17. Hi, I have a request for itmf. Is there any wangxian fic where

a) Lan Zhan likes to take care of Wei Ying or in the simple thing,he has caretaking kink(is this the right word?) . Like The Second Jade of Lan's late but incendiary sexual awakening by KizuKatana

b) Any fic like A matter of time by mrcformoso. Where Lan Zhan keep wei ying for himself and wei ying like it. Or a time travel where lan zhan just, "you're mine" Or the friendship between Lan Zhan and Nie Huaisang to protect Wei Ying. Or anything that the 3 of them have dark personality(yandere)

Thank you for all your hardwork. Love you guys😘 @chibiizzy

17A)

The Dragon's Bride by jaws_3 (T, 34k, WangXian, Beauty and the Beast Fusion, Arranged Marriage elements, Slow Burn, sometimes ya get sent off to atone for ur villages misgivings and u just gotta deal, Dragon LWJ, Mutual Pining, Happy Ending, Spanish Translation Available)

Continuation by thefaceofno (T, 14k, WangXian, Canon Continuation, WWX builds a lotus pond in cloud recesses, Hair Brushing, Light Angst with a Happy Ending, Pining, gay disaster LWJ, Post-Canon Fix-It)

🔒 The Promises We Make by Mayarenerose (G, 34k, WangXian, LSZ & LWJ, LXC & LWJ, LWJ & WN, LWJ & JC, Happy Ending, Slow Burn, Fluff, Angst, Everybody Lives, Canon Divergence, Gratuitous Bed Sharing, LWJ: moves into the Burial Mounds, WWX: ??? wtf??? are you??? doing??, Rabbits, there are so many rabbits in this fic guys i cant even)

💙 this river runs to you by sundiscus (T, 53k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Mutual Pining, Dragons, Literal Sleeping Together, Tender wound tending)

❤️ the best of you by sysrae (E, 41k, WangXian, XuanLi, Modern AU, College/University, Angst with a Happy Ending, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Hurt/Comfort, Mutual Pining, Getting Together, slightly undernegotiated kink, but in a very soft and consensual way, Nightmares, Panic Attacks, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, JFM and Madam Yu's A+ parenting, Dysfunctional Family, Mental Health Issues therapy is good actually, the most tender of railings, Reference to animal attacks/animal cruelty, descriptions of past violence)

Falling to the Rhythm by Selenay (E, 128k, WangXian, Modern: No Powers, Dance, Strictly Come Dancing Fusion, Ballroom Dancing, Dancer!WWX, Violinist LWJ, Pining While Dancing, Oblivious WWX, Gratuitous Costume Descriptions, Gratuitous dancing descriptions, Slow Burn, [Podfic] Falling to the Rhythm by semperfiona_podfic (semperfiona))

Work-Life Balance is Not A Thing by catbrainedschemes (E, 17k, WangXian, Modern AU, Workplace Relationship, Romantic Comedy, Idiots in Love, Oblivious WWX, Oblivious LWJ, Sexual Tension, Eventual Smut, but not that eventual, Pining, Dirty Talk)

17B)

Like stones on an unseen board by Vir_Abelasan (Not rated, 11k, wangxian, Canon Divergence, Dark LWJ, Older LWJ, Teacher LWJ, dark twin jades, Age Difference, Manipulation, Protective LWJ, Implied/Referenced Abuse, Corporal Punishment, Relatively canon-typical abusive Jiangs, WWX Get a Happy Ending, WangXian Get a Happy Ending, Not JC Friendly, Not Jiang Clan Friendly)

🔒 At heart by apathyinreverie (M, 36k, WangXian, WIP, Dark LWJ(Ish), Amnesia, WWX gets to be Not Okay after the BM, Hurt WWX, Recovery, Caring, Protective LWJ, Possessive LWJ, some definite manipulation, but not everything is as it seems, not nearly as dark as the tags make it sound, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Revea, Golden Core Transfer Fix-It, kind of, Domestic WangXian, Fluff, WWX Goes to Gusu, Possessive WWX, WWX happily atticwifing away, Sunshot Campaign, BAMF WWX, BAMF LWJ)

~*~

18. Hi so I tried to find any fic that has this idea myself but I couldn't find any so I am here to ask this oh great finder to find me a fic that has wei ying dual wielding like he wheels two swords maybe one of them is Suibian and the other is like one of his parents blade or something I just want a fic that has him dual wielding it will be so cool

Take My Hand, Hold Me Tight by ThyNameIsAeschylus30 (M, 58k, WIP, HanXian, One-sided WangXian, Canon Divergence, Transmigration into MDZS, But WWX from his world transmigration to cannon WWX's world, BAMF WWX, Immortal WWX, Healer!WWX, Age Difference, Donghua WRH, Pining WWX, Minor WWX/OMC, Past Relationship(s), YZY Bashing, Bad Parents JFM and YZY, Canonical Child Abuse, Unrequited love for LWJ, Potentially OOC!WWX and others, JFM isn't getting bashed he's being gaslighted by WWX, Accidental Baby Acquisition) It's a WWX/WRH fanfic where WWX an immortal healer from another realm transmigrated because this version of him died. He uses both his old and his current sword if I remember correctly

~*~

If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

[thatswhatsushesaid]

tags via @inappropriatewenning and @poorlittleyaoyao

I am kind of torn between "they never find out" and "they never marry" being the better "Jin Guangyao ultimate good life" option because the thing is. I do think he really, really, very very much wants to get married and have a respectable and respected heterosexual, 2.5 kids a dog and a white picket fence. And I also do think that he and Qin Su were stupidly in love. I just can't see him taking the risk of forcing his dad's hand on something this big otherwise. He has to want it badly enough to not only have premarital sex but be willing to expose that to his father and his father's best friend. As much as I also think he and Lan Xichen should be able to be happy together, I don't see Jin Guangyao being happy in a version of the story where he can't get married, and I don't think another person like Qin Su, who truly does not think less of him because of his background and is willing to fight for him, is going to be easy to find. Idk. That's part of what is so tragic. He gets everything he wanted and it's awful, and there isn't a way it could have been better, because he never had any control over why it was this way, and it all happened before he even showed up. Idk.

[pumpkinpaix]

Spotlight 1:

"Introduction: The Single-log Bridge"

(interview questions answered by Alberto)

What drew you to this topic?

When we realized this would be the first scholarly book on The Untamed, we wanted to prioritize writers with lived experience and cultural backgrounds most pertinent to an initial discussion of it!

Was there anything you were surprised to discover while researching?

For me personally, I was surprised to see all the records that The Untamed kept setting as we wrote, revised, and submitted the collection! Some of the sources cited here were added quite literally the week before our deadline.

Did researching/writing your chapter change how you saw the text, the fandom, or the media? How so?

We had to pull together conversations on a lot of different topics for this introduction, and it was very neat to see the big picture coming together.

If there’s one thing you hope the fandom takes away from your article, what would it be?

I hope that English-speaking fandom in particular comes away with a better sense of how complex production was and how much nuance there is to the show. I've seen a lot of discussions that try to read CQL in the way they would a show made in the US or EU, and that just misses so much of what this show is doing!

What is your MDZS/CQL origin story? (i.e. how did you come to this text?)

I (Maria) started watching CQL after seeing it all over my dash and getting rave recommendations from friends in a wide variety of other fandoms! From there, I branched out into the novel and other danmei texts, both webnovels and dramas.

Favorite adaptation, if any?

The live-action drama will always hold a special place in my heart because this is how I first encountered these characters!

If you were isekai-ed into MDZS/CQL, what sect affiliation would you choose and why?

This is such a tough question XD I think I'd have to say Qinghe Nie because I admire their leadership and I'm most drawn to their style of cultivation!

What’s your favorite fictional trope in MDZS/CQL?

Soulmate tropes will always get me! Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen are my very favorite characters and that relationship is so compelling to me: I also love how Xiao Xingchen forms a little found family in Yi City for a time, later on :,)

Chaotic one-sentence pitch to get your friends into MDZS/CQL?

Picture this: disaster gays reunite after dramatic death and reincarnation, then have the slowest slowburn while dealing with post-conflict politics!

If you could ask anyone who worked any adaptation of MDZS/CQL one thing, who would it be and what would you ask?

To any cast member, I would be so curious whether they anticipated how big and visible the show became!

If you could ask MXTX one question, what would it be?

What do you think of how popular your work has become?!

What is one (1) book/media you would recommend to a MDZS/CQL fan? Tell us about it.

Word of Honor, in case there's anyone hasn't seen it yet (heart eyes)

Anything to say to potential readers of the collection?

On behalf of myself and co-editor Yue, we truly hope you enjoy it!

You can find Maria on Twitter/X @MariaKAlberto.

(FAQ) (all posts on Catching Chen Qing Ling)

[erivroom]

The meaning of “The Untamed”

someone asked me to elaborate and who am i to say no? (i asked for it in the tags)

The Untamed isn’t a translation of 陈情令 (chén q��ng líng) so when people discuss the title they typically toss out or brush off the english title entirely.

but that’s because it’s not a translation of 陈情令 it’s a translation of 无羁 (wú jī) the theme song of the series.

yippe explaination set up

i’d also like to make this post new fan and/or cql only fan friendly so i’m going to go in depth about the significance of 无羁 before explaining how it connects to the english title.

first the chinese characters for wwx and lwjs names

Wei Wuxian — 魏无羡

Lan Wangji — 蓝忘机

in the novels the song Wei Wuxian plays on the flute, that Lan Wangji played for him in the cave with the Xuanwu of Slaughter is expressly titled 忘羡 (wàng xiàn). the ship name we all know and love consisting of the first character of Wangji and last character of Wuxian.

so the track in cql is titled 无羁 the first character of Wuxian and the last sound of Wangji.

now the translation explanation

无羁 directly translates to unbridled, unfettered, or untamed

so The Untamed as the english version of the title is literally a mixed up version of their ship name in english! when you say “i’m watching The Untamed” in a way you’re kind of saying “i’m watching Wangxian”.

how does this relate to the name 陈情令？how did this become the english title?

i’d like to refer you to this post as it explains in depth better than i can the meaning of 陈情令.

directly translated 陈情令 means “a song from chén qíng”, being the name of Wei Wuxian’s flute. however, 陈情 itself has two translations. first being to reminisce past relationship. (referring from the linked post please check it out)

Wuji is a song both played literally on the chen qing flute, but is also a song reminiscent of a past relationship. ofc it’s of a present relationship now but throughout the series, you get what i mean.

so Wuji, or The Untamed, makes perfect sense to be the english title for the show.

ALSO!! felt i should include this

《 魔道祖师：无羁 》 or “Mo Dao Zu Shi : Wu Ji” is the official name for the books printed in mainland china afaik.

i got like maybe 2 hours of sleep last night and i’m running on 3 cups of coffee so far so this is what happens

if there’s any questions feel free to ask <3

post for @baby4012

[mxtxfanatic]

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I still really want to know and I'm gonna ask anyways. When people talk about how Lan Wangji learned from his mistakes and did better post-Wei Wuxian death, what do they mean? What was Lan Wangji’s "mistake?"

As someone who once believed this, I think it’s a combination of people forgetting the timeframe in which the events in Wei Wuxian’s first life took place, shipper bias where people who want Wei Wuxian to have ended up with a “better” character make up shit to justify hating Lan Wangji as a character and thus wangxian as a couple, and just the persistent feeling one may get after reading the novel for the first time and feeling like Wei Wuxian was the only one to suffer any “real” consequences for sticking up for the Wen remnants while “no one else did.”

For the timeframe stuff: fandom has this conception (not helped by the cql fandom bleedover) that the Burial Mounds settlement days lasted longer than it did and Lan Wangji had more opportunities to help than he did. He didn’t. The Qiongqi Path labor camp liberation and Wei Wuxian’s defection and exile from the cultivation world happened within 24 hours. Lan Wangji heard that Wei Wuxian was gonna look for Wen Ning, and the next official news is that he’s defected from the Jiang and is now enemy to the cultivation world. There was absolutely no space for him to have done anything during this time.

For the part about feeling like no one else did anything: Lan Wangji speaks up publicly for Wei Wuxian. He speaks up publicly for the Wen siblings during their sham trial. He’s partially responsible for Wen Ning regaining his consciousness. He’s the reason the Wen remnants and Wei Wuxian survived three more months passed the Nightless City bloodbath. Did he give money, no, but money was never their problem. The Wen remnants needed safety and freedom, and that was not something Lan Wangji could offer them without the cooperation of the rest of the cultivation world—the very people persecuting them. People also severely overestimate the “kindness” of the Lan Clan as a whole and thus have this false idea that the Lan would have helped “if only they knew the truth.” Lan Xichen was present at the same banquet where Wei Wuxian said he would go look for Wen Ning. The Lan were at the emergency conference to discuss the labor camp situation. Lan Wangji was not privy to some super secret information that made him act in favor of Wei Wuxian; he was simply a moral man where his clan (and the others) remained festered in their unjustified need to see the Wen remnants tortured and humiliated.

As for consequences: Lan Wangji was whipped almost to death for fighting his own seniors in order to save Wei Wuxian. That’s the harshest consequence literally anyone outside of Wei Wuxian faced out of the whole situation.

Lan Wangji made no mistakes in Wei Wuxian’s first life.

[rainbowsky]

Hi rainbowsky! I'm a new-ish (autumn 2023) Yizhan fan - it's been so much fun to explore and read everything available, your blog included! I really enjoy your opinions and insights. I have a question and a request. Question: When CQL first started airing, what were people saying about the relationship between WWX and LZ in the show, and about the actors playing them? Did the CP start right away? Request: Then later on, when the BTS started appearing (when was that - after the show finished airing, right?), what were people saying about the real interactions between the two actors? Were people shocked? Amazed? Even more curious? I can imagine social media was on fire! But I'd like to hear from someone who "lived" through it in real time. Please give me a description of what it was like - especially what your thoughts and feeling were as you saw it happening. I wish I could have been there! Thank you!

Hi Blbrave! Thanks so much, I'm glad you're enjoying my blog!

This is all a very, very long time ago, but I'll do my best to share what I can remember.

Actually, the CP started before the show began airing. The supertopics were opened during filming in 2018. I think this was inevitable, given that the series is based on a BL story. Of course fans of the novel will go into all of this with an eye toward the two characters and, by extension, GG and DD.

Similarly, as the show was airing of course there were a large number of viewers who knew it was a BL and viewed it as a BL at that time, even though it was being billed as a martial brotherhood series. There was a lot of analysis from fans trying to spot various ways that the production team managed to get around censorship and signal the queer romance between WWX and LWJ.

Others have done far better, more comprehensive analysis of all that than I could ever do, but it's so long ago I don't know where those posts might have gone. Some of this was discussed in my post about queerbaiting, so you can look there for more info.

As I said in that post, one of their smartest ways of highlighting the queer relationship was to downplay romance between the straight characters. We never see a straight couple doing something that we don’t also see LWJ and WWX doing. Yanli's wedding happens off camera, yet we see LWJ and WWX do their bows on camera. There’s never a kiss or any kind of PDA between straight characters, yet we see LWJ and WWX in each other’s arms throughout the series.

We got a gay kiss:

We got gay sex:

There was also the headband repeatedly being described as the domain of only family and spouses, and the various ways they connected it with WWX. WWX grabbing it when he was possessing the paperman, and also at one point being tied to LWJ by the wrist with the headband - all of this signalling that WWX was a spousal figure for LWJ.

There was the drunk scene with LWJ giving WWX chickens (a wedding tradition in China).

And many more examples I won't get into.

There were many of those types of things in the series, and they were discussed enthusiastically at the time. However, I don't think there were many bystanders who made those connections. It was primarily fans of the books/show (i.e. those who appreciated it as a BL story and not as a bromance/friendship story) who saw and discussed those hints.

I know the idea that anyone could be so oblivious to the gay subtext throughout the story that they miss the queerness entirely is hard to get one's head around, but straight viewers usually just see WWX and LWJ as best friends and sworn martial brothers. The show could never have been made or aired if that wasn't the case.

In fact, newer fans might not be aware that there was a lot of controversy during filming because of leaked early attempts to create a straight romance between Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing. Some relationship-building scenes between them were filmed, and at one point in the BTS GG is heard complaining about the straight romance and saying that all those scenes should be deleted.

In the production team's defense, there was doubt at the time about whether the show could air given its source material as a BL novel. They likely had investors and backers pressuring them to make sure that the story was unambiguously straight.

Fans of the novel made a massive uproar about it, threatening to boycott the series. The backlash was so extreme that it became a bigger threat to the success of the show, and the straight romance was killed. We all owe a lot to those agitators! 😅

The BTS

The BTS clips were first discussed in an Untamed press conference (that section of the interview starts at around 36:30). The producer said that in the future some of the behind-the-scenes moments would be shared. GG and DD exchanged a glance and looked extremely uncomfortable with it.

A lot of turtles find that clip funny, and laugh about what GG and DD might 'have to hide', but I have never understood how fans can find GG and DD's discomfort funny.

It might surprise some newer turtles to hear that there were moments where GG and DD appeared to be uncomfortable with the BTS, but there were.

Another moment happened in an interview where GG and DD were asked to explain a BTS scene of the two of them in the boat, where GG is lying in DD's lap. DD turns to the interviewer with a shocked and displeased look on his face and says, "They released this?"

There were other moments as well, but I haven't kept a comprehensive record of all that. This happened long before I clued in on how quickly clips can disappear in this fandom.

I believe that it is totally normal to have mixed feelings about the BTS, and I believe GG and DD are no exception to that. No doubt they enjoy some of the clips and feel uncomfortable about some of them, just like many turtles (myself included).

There were official BTS clips released during promo, but the unofficial BTS clips didn't come until later. I talked in more detail about the unofficial BTS and how they came to be released here.

The unofficial clips began being released by fansites in the fall of 2020. It would be hard to overstate how different the atmosphere around them was to what it is now. Now it's quite common to find BTS clips all over the place, both in C-social media and on international sites like YouTube and Instagram.

However, back in 2020 they were extremely hard to get ahold of, and sharing them outside of where they were initially released was strictly forbidden and frowned upon by fans. In fact, if you dig back through my 2020 posts I'm sure you'll find many posts where I admonish people not to share the BTS clips, and where I bitch about people sharing them without authorization. I also answered a lot of asks about these issues at the time (just one example).

Times have changed a lot, and now everyone is sharing them all very freely without any concerns.

The situation was a lot different back then:

GG and DD had gained a tremendous amount of popularity from the show, but their reputations and careers were not yet fully established and secure.

227 was still an active concern that was still making news and still impacting GG's life directly. He had not yet recovered from any of it and was still mostly lying low. He was constantly being attacked and antis were constantly out to get him.

The Untamed was still fresh and current, and being discussed regularly in the media. Because filming was still fairly recent, what happened during filming would still run the risk of impacting GG and DD's lives and careers.

Fans were coming under very close scrutiny because of 227 and other fandom-related scandals. The government was starting to crack down heavily on fandom culture.

This was all uncharted territory. No one knew how the BTS might be received, or how it might impact GG and DD. Fans were very freaked out about the possibility of anything compromising getting leaked and harming the boys.

No doubt fansites were also worried about how fans might respond to some of the releases, and wanted to ensure they didn't upset or anger fans, or stir up more excitement than could be safely contained within the fandom.

All of this contributed to a climate of extreme caution and secrecy around the release of BTS clips.

We never knew when one might be released, and when they were released they were typically only put online for a few minutes, then deleted. This was all done in an effort to limit the exposure of these clips primarily to turtles who have GGDD's best interests in mind.

The clips were heavily watermarked and overlaid with visual and audio curses that 'reuploaders must die!' ('banyun biss', which I'm sure most of you have encountered in some of the clips you've seen).

Early clips were heavily watermarked.

Those who missed out were out of luck. It was extremely socially unacceptable to re-share clips once they'd been deleted. Those who missed out would have to rely on recaps and transcripts from those who had seen the clips. Fans took to staying up all hours watching and waiting for a release.

Back in those days people tried to save every clip they could, hoarding them greedily. Turtles' phones were filling up with large video files. It's funny to think about now, because the clips are everywhere and so easy to find these days, but back then it was a whole Thing.

The initial releases were sporadic and quite tame as fansites dipped their toes in the water of how all this would be received. Gradually over time clips became more frequent and stayed up longer, and some of the more salacious stuff began being released. Those clips were often accompanied by hilarious intro images.

(For those who don't get it, it's the PornHub logo).

Of course all of the clips were heavily discussed as they came out, and a clearer picture of GG and DD's relationship and of their experience of filming began to take shape over time. Some of the fake rumors (such as the 49 fake candies and the CPN that GG designed a racing suit for DD) were gradually proved to be true as these clips were released. However, that was mostly confined to fandom circles.

There were occasionally times when these clips or their content would cross over into the mainstream and start trending on Weibo. In many of those cases, the hotsearches would be bought and pushed by antis of GG and DD who want to see them cancelled. At those times turtles would jump into action to wash those topics and replace them with mundane, unrelated content.

There were fan theories and fake rumors about GG and DD's reaction to the clips. Sometimes when new clips were released GG and DD would be seen online and turtles assumed they were watching them. Of course, considering the clips featured them, it's highly likely that they did eagerly await releases just like the rest of us.

I suspect that it was likely a mixed bag for them. Some clips might have really stressed them out either upon initial release or after reactions began to emerge, while others likely made them laugh and feel nostalgic about filming.

A large percentage of BXG light banners and slogans came directly out of the BTS, some of which you can see GG and DD discussing in LRLG rumors.

Dumplings, rice noodles, 3+2 biscuits (cr @knivescharade in this post), discussed in this LRLG rumor.

There were definitely a few scandals and close calls that came out of the unofficial BTS, and solos and antis frequently tried to use them against GG and DD and tried to spin negative narratives about their relationship using disingenuous takes and edits of them (they still do to this day).

For example, the clip where GG tells DD that he prefers a natural look to idol makeup was used against GG at the time, and antis tried to make it seem like GG was homophobic and that GG was against men wearing makeup. Some of the clips where they were playfighting or bickering were used to try to create a narrative that they hated each other. That kind of thing.

BTS and fan service

One of the most common questions I've gotten about the BTS - and I still often get this question - is, "Aren't the BTS just acted out/scripted as fan service to promote the show?"

There are a few reasons people have this question in their minds.

Solos #1 narrative about GGDD is that their CP was just for the show and the BTS was all fan service, and nothing about their relationship is real. They push this claim very aggressively on social media anytime GGDD or The Untamed is discussed, and new fans will almost always encounter those claims in this way.

CP fan service is a normal part of how dramas are promoted, so people familiar with Asian dramas will often immediately jump to that assumption about GG and DD and about the BTS.

Heteronormativity leads many people to immediately dismiss the possibility of a gay relationship, which leads them to try to come up with other explanations for those clips.

People naturally have a hard time believing what they're seeing with some of those clips. Some of it is pretty jaw-dropping and it's understandable that some people will be skeptical.

However, there are a lot of really good reasons why these clips are obviously not fan service.

For one thing, the show was billed as a martial brotherhood, not as a romance. Some of the official BTS clearly did try to appeal to CP and MDZS fans and could be counted as fan service, but those weren't even the ones BXG are most excited about. (There is a playlist of some of the official BTS clips here).

The most exciting stuff was never released during promo, and almost none of it is overtly romantic. A lot of it is really crude and totally unreleasable as promo. GG and DD are lewd, crude and often rude in ways that only two people who are really close could ever get away with. In many cases it's the casual way GG and DD constantly cross polite social boundaries with each other that shows their intimacy, rather than anything overtly sweet or romantic.

A lot of it is also totally incomprehensible to regular audiences. You have to be a turtle digging deeply into GGDD to understand the significance of most of it. For example the way GG took care of DD on his birthday, or the way DD constantly bargained and haggled with GG to get him to eat more.

Most importantly, if it was all fan service then why did GG and DD never do any joint CP endorsements? The entire point of doing that type of fan service is to make a buck. Other drama CP - including BL - do this all the time.

And it doesn't make sense that a production that was as low budget as The Untamed could afford to have the two lead actors learn a whole second set of lines and do a whole second performance that never ended up getting released.

And of course, none of that explains why the bulk of the BTS clips ended up in the hands of fans and released years after the show finished airing. A lot of it still has never been released to this day.

I've often joked that if the BTS were scripted they were far more complex, more melodramatic and better written than the drama itself. You just can't come up with this stuff in a writer's room. 😅

Anyway, this post got a bit long but hopefully it gives you a bit more of a picture of what it was all like at the time. Sorry, I guess I didn't talk much about my own feelings/reactions, but hopefully you can get somewhat of a sense.

Overall it was exciting, but I also had some deep reservations about it all (and got a lot of hate mail for voicing those feelings, too). Keep in mind this wasn't long after 227, so I think it's understandable that I was feeling very wary about everything.

But that's all water under the bridge now. It's been many years, and if the BTS were going to harm GGDD it would have already happened. I think it's all pretty safe territory now.

Edit: some more of my thoughts and feelings at the time:

One of the most exciting things for me about the BTS clips was seeing so many of the fake rumors being proved true. There were a lot of rumors (including the 49 fake candies) that I totally scoffed at when I first heard about them, only to later find via the BTS clips that I had been totally wrong about them and that these things had actually happened, and even crazier things were gradually revealed.

Things were changing pretty rapidly for a while there now that I think about it.

Learning more about their relationship and seeing just how much they looked out for each other was another big one for me. Also the timeline. The BTS really reinforced my belief in The Devil's Timeline (the belief that they got together prior to filming).

But overall that was a very different time in the fandom as well. There were always so many candies coming out, not just BTS clips but things that came out of GG and DD's activities and social media posts. It was a really really busy time in the fandom.

Since then there has been a government crackdown on fandom culture, on the entertainment industry, on LGBTQ etc. in China, plus DD's split with Nike and him having to delete a lot of his GG candy posts from his Weibo account.

Things are so different now, and unfortunately a lot of it for the worse. Being a turtle is not always easy, and I'm sure being GG and DD can't always be easy either. We make it work, but I do sometimes look back wistfully on the freer, more exciting times in the fandom.

More such times could come in the future. We just have to keep moving forward and hope for the best.

Somewhat related: I did a semi-comprehensive post about GG and DD's reaction to turtles here.

[sepia-mahogany]

Please stop intentionally mistagging content.

“Canon Jiang Cheng” tag is for discussion of things he did in the novel, explicitly, that means if you want to talk about how brave he was for saving Wei Wuxian from the guards or about how terrible it was that he made things worse for WWX and WRs. Positive or negative interpretations from the novel source are welcome here. The main “Jiang Cheng” tag is for everything, headcanons, fanart, cql donghua every other adaptation canon than just the novel, gif sets, video edits, fanon content, canon content whatever you wish to do.

It is honestly disappointing that after requests from other Jiang Cheng fans (and also to avoid the mess that was people getting hate over posting the direct novel quotes) we made a separate tag so everyone could curate their content and consume what they wished, only for some people to intentionally mistag content (fanships for example, or cql gifs) as a misguided attempt to “reclaim the tag”.

What exactly are you accomplishing by intentionally mistagging content? All you’re doing is making curating content harder, so please stop intentionally mistagging content when you can just block the tag you wish to not interact with but making it so people don’t have a safe fandom space is beyond being rude.

[randomness-is-my-order]

hey, welcome to my end-all be-all main blog!

this introduction is a long time coming and today i bit the bullet. fair warning: this is wordy as fuck.

hello to anyone who’s reading this. i’m teru. i’m in my early 20s. she/her. this blog is to essentially engage in any and all media fandoms that i jump into and share my insights as well as post about my fics. i usually engage in a wide variety of fandoms, ranging from books/anime/manga/webtoons/shows/movies and even, occassionally, kpop though the latter is probably just going to be reblogs. i write metas for media i am more invested in while other source material might get a short review + shit posting.

my ao3: link

my fic aus can be found under: #rimo ideas

fic-related links/posts/updates: #rimo fics

original writing: #rimo writes

fandoms that feature prominently on the blog:

–mo dao zu shi: the novels and the cql ‘the untamed’. [i’m in my supercharged mdzs phase at the moment and this series might be a long-standing fixture on this blog].

– percy jackson and the olympians: the books and more prominently, the tv adaptation that was released in 2023. [my commentary during airtime was focused on analyses and positive feedback but my thoughts on the franchise as as whole and the author, rick riordian are much more critical, just an fyi for all the people who found my blog through those posts.]

– naruto: majorly posting of my fics and the ocassional doodle.

– comfort characters: wei wuxian, naruto uzumaki, mike wheeler, nick nelson, eugenides, william herondale, violet, momo ayase, okarun, anya, loid, and moreeeeee.

– otps: shikanaru, caitvi, wei wuxian/lan wangji, mileven, platonic madwheeler.

– how active am i on here? it is extremely erratic. i may continuously spam-post for a week or two and then go mia for months. i don’t know. irl situations dictate my presence on here entirely. alot of my posts are rambly and include ranting but i’m open to discourse most of the time. i specify when i’m not. dms are, of course, always open, but i may be a bit slow to respond [sorry!]. i don’t always respond to asks–sometimes i will dm you back if you aren’t anon if the topic is more suitable for a one-on-one chat but feel free to drop them! there will be lots of fic-related postings and i might some day end up compiling all my works into a coherent system of links but that day isn’t today.

i reblog cute art and any metas that i personally agree with. i don’t know why but i comment sparingly and once i’ve seen you enough, seen your posts enough, i’ll end up following you. despite all the time i spend here, i’m frankly still figuring out how to work this site.

i’ll discuss mature and triggering topics and will try to forewarn them but there probably won’t ever be any nsfw (graphic) content on here. i’m human so i’m learning and changing opinions on things every single day. though looking at media critically is important, i do give in to my biases and just have fun with things all the time. i take stories and characters seriously and will get heated about them at some point or another. if any of this isn’t your thing, i bid you farewell. :))

i will also bid you farewell if you are racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, bigoted, unnecessarily inflammatory and insulting.

anyway, let’s have fun here and engage with each other with good–or at the very least, cordial–vibes!