#not everything is an argument. not everything is a debate.

[iamthedukeofurl]

One thing I've noticed that defines American Conservatism as a whole is a sort of...competitive mindset when it comes to life choices. Like, there's a desire to live an Objectively Correct life, which they, naturally, define as their OWN life. Religion is certainly deeply ingrained in this, but I believe the impulse begins with the desire to self-identify their own lifestyle as "Correct", and religion enters the picture primarily as a way to identify all "Competing" lifestyles as "incorrect". For those of us old enough to remember when Gay Marriage was a big debate in the country, there was strong opposition from the right. The clearest opposition was in plain religious terms, being gay bad, therefore society should not condone it. But there was another argument that was thrown around, one which was repeated often, but never made sense to those who were not making it. "If Gay people can get married, Straight marriage is worthless". The term "Protection" was used a lot in this context, "Protecting" the institution of marriage from gay people. And looking back on that in context of the intervening decade, something finally clicked for me. Some people are uncomfortable with the idea that there are multiple "Correct" ways to live. They can be perfectly happy and content with their life, but the idea that there are alternatives out there makes them uncomfortable because it introduces the idea that they might be wrong. It's not that homophobes in straight marriages are repressed homosexuals who wish they could have gotten gay married instead, it's that being presented with somebody who is different than you, but still lives a thriving, happy life shatters the comforting certainty that you have been Correct. Key to this idea of Correctness is consequences for disobedience. That's why so many conservative policies are needlessly anti-empathetic and cruel. The assumption is that if you live the correct life, you receive the rewards of comfort, and if you deviate from that, you suffer. Homelessness must exist as a threat to those who deviate from the standard of the protestant work ethic (nevermind that wealth and work ethic rarely correlate in reality). Sickness must exist as a threat to those who deviate from the standard of health (nevermind...literally everything about that statement). The horrors of drug addiction and withdrawal must exist as a threat to those who cannot resist the temptation to do drugs (Nevermind...you get it). And Pregnancy must exist as a consequence for those who deviate from the standards of puritan sexual morality. If you have sex "Correctly", with your spouse in a place where you are at least open to the idea of having children, you would never need an abortion. Abortion is for filthy sluts who can't control their lustful impulses. If you lived a Correct Life, you wouldn't need an abortion. At the root of it all is a fear of uncertainty. From their perspective they made all the "Correct" choices and ended up in a good place, but those were not choices at all. They didn't "Choose" to be straight and cis, society told them they were by default and they didn't disagree. They didn't choose to be christian, they were raised as such, found comfort in their faith, and never questioned it. They took the path of least resistance and it worked out, why doesn't everybody do the same? Why do you want to make things so complicated and confusing? This WORKED. It worked for me, it worked for my parents and my friends. I don't want my kids to grow up thinking it's okay to make the wrong choices.

Here’s the thing I think conservatives don’t understand: I don’t care what someone else does with their own body.

You wanna get surgery or take medication to make you look a certain way? Okay. I don’t care

You wanna ctrl+alt+delete that clump of cells in your uterus. Sure. I don’t care.

You wanna use meds to block a natural aspect of your body’s system? Alright by me. I. Don’t. Care.

I don’t care because it’s not my body

“But what if they regret it?” So? Let them regret it. That’s their choice to live with.

“But what if that baby would have grown up to cure cancer?” Kinda short sighted on God’s part to only put that potential in one baby, yeah? (Also … you can’t cure cancer, but that’s a level of nuance for a different time)

“But what if they want to use that function in the future?” Funny thing about meds: you can just stop fucking taking them and things usually go back to normal.

I DON’T CARE WHAT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING DOES WITH THEIR OWN BODY! I don’t care 🤷‍♀️ it’s not my body so why should I have a say in it?

The choice is not “being left up to the states instead of the federal government”, it’s that the choice is being taken away from individuals.

Why the fuck to they care so much what other people do with their own shit??

[alcoholfreenayeon]

Can you make a Aespa x Male reader Boyfriend how would aespa act post-arguments?

Aespa after arguments

A/N: I made this gender neutral reader because I feel the girls would act quite similarly regardless of reader being male or female

Karina

Side eyeing everything you do or say

She becomes very quiet and sits forlornly

Karina is mad that you both aren’t getting along at the moment and she watches you constantly hoping that you come to make up soon.

Even though she can get annoyed easily, she can’t stay annoyed for long and will start sitting close to you, hoping you talk to her

When you both eventually make up, she’s very clingy

Giselle

Sarcastic and annoying, Giselle will comment on everything she sees you do or say and will try to get you even more annoyed than you already are.

She’ll be texting her close friends, telling them of the argument and just also going through memes.

However, she will change her stance if her friends say it’s not completely or necessarily your fault.

She finds it hard to apologize first but she will do it if she has to.

After making up, she wants to be left alone for a bit. Mostly because she’s too relieved that you both aren’t in a fight anymore and can calm down and compose herself, eager to show you the memes she collected.

Winter

Winter will feel really upset after arguments.

She’ll close off and be very quiet, eyeing you distastefully if you are near her.

She’ll be debating constantly with herself trying to see your perspective as well.

She’ll wait for you to make the first move to make up.

Once you start talking with her again, she’ll cling on to you tightly, happy that you don’t hate her.

Ningning

She knows you are in trouble, you didn’t have to take it this far to try and make your point.

You’ll get lots of glares as you try and apologize.

And if god forbid, you double down and try to make it seem like you didn’t do anything wrong then good luck trying to convince her that you exist.

She’ll look past you like there’s no one else there and ignore you completely.

If you end up making up with her, she’ll be really happy but will also give you a warning in a dangerous tone, saying you’ll regret it for real if you take it that far next time.

[rainbowsky]

Hello hello! Baby YiZhan fan here :) totally random but...... I was watching the whole Untamed BTS and I noticed that on 2018.05.04 their interaction was kind of different, WY with his hands on XZ shoulder a couple times, their "can you find my nipple?" game (hahahaha), they were very touchy with each other. I tried and didn't find any theories about his specific date but it seems something changed from that point on. Do you know if there is anything about it?

Hi new turtle! 💛🐢💛

Well, there are various dates that different turtles focus on based on how particular BTS clips land on them. Not every turtle reacts the same way to the same clips. It can be a very personal thing. What one turtle finds very exciting, another turtle won't be moved by at all. Everything is an interpretation and nobody knows what really happened, so we all just clown and theorize according to our personal interests.

There is also a lot of unreleased BTS, so there are gaps in our understanding of how things unfolded during filming. In the absence of information some turtles will try to fill in those gaps with theories, and others will ignore those parts and focus on the content that we do have.

As for my own take on this particular date, I think it's entirely unknowable and therefore I don't see a huge point in digging too deeply into it. After all, this all happened 5 years ago. It's water under the bridge, really.

I don't think that I would immediately jump to something shifting in their relationship that makes them suddenly more comfortable with each other.

For one thing, I think the idea that there is such a huge change in their level of comfort with each other is very debatable. There are moments from the first days of filming where they look quite comfortable with each other and some moments later in filming where people could interpret them as not looking very comfortable with each other at all.

Only GG and DD know exactly how they felt and why they behaved the way they did at any given time. What we might read as being about their level of social comfort with each other could be about something entirely different.

It could be that they're tired and don't have a lot of energy and therefore don't appear to have a lot of sparks with each other in certain moments, or it could be that they had an argument, or that some personal or career stress is distracting them, or that some other third party has said something to them to make them more subdued with each other. We just don't know.

Devil's Timeline people sometimes theorize that they were trying to hide their relationship in the early days, therefore they acted a bit distant with each other to keep up the charade but quickly grew tired of making the effort, or forgot to keep the pretense up.

One of the things that fans most frequently forget to take into consideration is GG and DD's experience as queer people in a heteronormative society. I think it's worthwhile to consider what it would feel like to go on to a movie set with a whole bunch of strangers and to be acting across from your gay partner in a climate such as the one in China. I think any perceived tension between them in front of the cameras at the time could be easily explained by that alone.

I talk about the climate on set in a bit more detail in this post.

Any shift in their behavior on any particular date could be entirely because of conversations they had with production that we are not privy to. That could be the date they fully realized just how queer-friendly the environment was for them on set. Perhaps they were able to relax from that point forward in the certainty that production had their best interests at heart and would protect them as a couple.

We simply don't know. Everything is CPN, and everyone will have their own take on it based on their own perspective. As a gay person I'm more likely to theorize based on my understanding of the social realities of being gay in a heteronormative society. Others might be more drawn to the romance, and still others might be trying to build a case for their own personal timeline.

My advice is to not get too married to any one particular theory of how things happened. After all, it could have happened any number of ways. We will probably never know what really happened, so there's no point in attaching ourselves too much to a specific perspective.

I find it more fun to look at it from a bunch of different angles and come up with different reactions or theories based on that. If they got together during filming, what might be happening here? If they were already together, what might be happening there? That kind of thing. I did that with my Japan trip post, and several others you might encounter as you browse through my blog.

Most importantly, no one can tell anyone that their perspective is the right and true one. We will never know for sure. We are all clowns working from the same information and taking it in our own personal directions based on our own personal backgrounds, baggage, interests, etc., and based on what we need from fandom.

As a new turtle you might find my masterlist post helpful. There are a bunch of older posts and lists and resources there that new turtles might find useful.

[tetohe]

Class is in session everybody:

1 selective reading of history

"act of aggression against Anglo traditions" recognises that the institution of Parliament is inherently European, but ignores that it was established over top, through war, of existing governments in this country.

2 setting terms for the argument

"this isn't a cultural difference issue, it's a moral one" no further argument about why their position is morally right. Same language as David "let's just have a debate" Seymour. They're trying to pick their battleground, because they lose when it's about history or facts.

3 lying

"remove their racial privileges" is a lot different to "remove their contractual rights" (words changed to make it clear). If your boss changes your contract without asking you and cut your pay, you'd be pissed. That's one of the things happening here. It's a lie to say it's about "equality" and it's a lie to say they mean the same thing.

4 fascism

"lesser power can't dictate to the stronger one" our whole democratic system is based on putting checks and balances on the strongest power. It's why the opposition exists in parliament. Thinking that this is "just politics" is admitting you'd be fine becoming a dictatorship.

5 "I'm a racist"

Normally, it's a lot less blatant than this, and tries to mask itself with convoluted logic. But this is the point where much of everything else said ceases to matter, because it reveals that they truly believe that racism is the way the world should work. Everything else is just an attempt to lessen how vile their worldview is.

6 snowflake

Funny how quickly revealing oneself to be a racist is followed by being butthurt at getting called names. Almost as if they know name-calling hurts, and the reason they do it to others is to hurt them.

7 pointless arguing

Also normally not said so clearly. Anything said here won't be listed to by them. So none of this is for them, but for anyone else coming past this.

This is what racists sound like. This is amateur work that's easy to see through, but others are a lot better at it. Racists like this want to be the ones to define the status quo, be the ones who sound reasonable and content while everyone else is screaming.

So don't let them set the terms. Name them for what they are. Call racists out so their voice isn't the only one. Help others to see through them. Block them, shun them, don't let racist's horriblness destroy your hope.

this is actually so fucking disgusting especially coming from the official ACT account.

For those who don't know there is a new bill that has been proposed in NZ that will have significant negative impact on māori in this country. For more info on the bill and jts potential impacts read .

This specific post that Seymour made is referencing a conference that was being about this bill where, during her turn to speak, Hana Rawhiti began a haka which was then joined in on by many of the other people in attendance. David Seymour, one of the main proponents of this bill then posted that on his party's official Instagram page trying to paint Hana as an uncivilized thug. This is a common tactic for racists and seeing an acting member of parliament openly say something like this makes me feel genuinely sick to my stomach.

[fastandcarlos]

Victim Of A Bad Day : ̗̀➛ Oscar Piastri

summary: after what can only be described as a nightmare of a day, oscar ends up coming home only to take it all out on you

Your smile was soft as Oscar walked through the apartment, putting your phone down and rising to your feet. You went over to him, holding your arms out, but Oscar’s head shook back at you. 

“Please, no,” he told you, walking straight past you through the living room and into the kitchen. 

You turned around as you watched Oscar walk away, debating what to do next. You slowly followed behind as you watched him grab a glass from out of the cupboard and fill it with water. Every movement was done with a sigh, thudding around the place like a toddler running around. 

“I’m guessing your day could’ve been better?” You asked, trying to bring a smile to his face. 

You stood and waited for Oscar to acknowledge you, but instead he carried on walking around. His head was down as he moved, his eyes not even looking across in your direction, as if you weren’t there. 

“Oscar, you know I’m here for you,” you told him, beginning to get concerned with his behaviour. It was unlike Oscar to be so quiet, to close off from you and deal with everything all by himself. 

A shrug came from Oscar as he walked out of the kitchen and into the living room, throwing himself down on the sofa. He grabbed his phone, kicking his feet up onto the coffee table, almost groaning when he noticed that you had followed right behind him. 

“So, we’ll just spend our evening in silence, shall we?” You asked, perching on the end of the sofa. 

“Suits me,” Oscar bluntly responded, still staring down at his phone, ignoring the sigh that came from across the room from you. 

Your head shook in disbelief at how cold Oscar was, never had you seen this side of him before. “I don’t know what’s happened today Oscar, but you could try and at least treat me with even the smallest bit of dignity tonight.” 

“Just leave me alone,” Oscar requested, throwing his arms up into the air. “Just because I’ve not come home and thrown my arms around you and talked your ear off doesn’t mean I need constant questions. Just take the hint and give me a bit of space.” 

Your body tensed up at how loud Oscar’s voice was, not quite sure how to react. “You’re not you Oscar, what would you like me to do? Pretend that everything is fine? I didn’t realise that caring about you was such a crime, next time I won’t bother worrying about you.” 

“I don’t need caring for, I haven’t asked you too,” Oscar replied. 

Your eyes widened in surprise at what Oscar had to say, stunned by how blunt he was. Perhaps you had been a little overbearing, but all you were guilty of was worrying about him.  

“That’s fine then,” you told Oscar, picking up your phone and sitting opposite him. You sat back, stretching out across the sofa, deciding to switch off to the fact that Oscar was even in the room. 

His eyes watched you though, shaking his head as you mimicked him. “I don’t ever remember asking for someone to worry about me, you know I’ve survived long enough all by myself.” 

Your heart ached as Oscar spoke, the hurt clear on your face as your eyes flickered across to Oscar. As he met your eyes, Oscar’s frustration disappeared, replaced by concern that he was the reason for your disappointment.  

“I don’t even know what to say,” you shrugged, shaking your head disapprovingly, full of despair. Rising to your feet, Oscar kept an eye on you as you left the room and went into your bedroom. 

Time apart was exactly what the two of you needed as you let the events sink in. You were both full of anger and upset, unable to believe that the two of you could ever have such an argument. It was unlike any other disagreement that you’d had with Oscar, leaving you rather shellshocked as you laid down on your bed. 

You found yourself staring up at the ceiling as you replayed the argument again and again in your head. A shiver ran down your spine each time you heard Oscar’s voice in your head, the resentment and annoyance so clear, somehow you being the reason for it too. 

After a while, you could hear Oscar moving through the apartment, knowing exactly where he was heading. You picked up your phone to make yourself look busy as the bedroom door opened, with Oscar quietly walking in, sitting on the end of the bed. 

You didn’t respond as Oscar turned to face you, laying himself down beside you. His hand rested against your stomach as he tried to get your attention, knowing that he had plenty of making up to do. 

“I’m sorry,” Oscar murmured, “the way I behaved then was completely unreasonable and out of order.” 

You placed your phone down, brows knitting together as you glanced across at Oscar. His heart sunk as he saw how upset you still were, guilt eating away at him knowing it was all his fault. 

“I don’t want to hear it.” 

“Please,” Oscar sighed, expecting you to dismiss him. “I shouldn’t have said what I said, I know that you care so much, and that’s one of my favourite things about you. Having you take care of me is the best feeling in the world, I don’t know what I’d do without you around to support me.” 

As your body turned slightly to face Oscar, you could see a faint smile on his face. Knowing that you were at least listening to him was a start for Oscar, hardly expecting you to fall into his arms and forgive him as quick as a flash, but at least it was a sign. 

“I don’t care how bad your day is Oscar; I don’t expect to be spoken to like that. I was only caring, and maybe I was a little too much, but if you’d have just told me that you needed space then I would’ve known what you needed from me, rather than just being shouted at.” 

“I was stupid,” Oscar told you, “there’s no explanation for it, bad day or not.” 

You could see the effects of the day in Oscar’s eyes, there was barely any colour there, letting you know just how bad of a day he must’ve had. 

“Everyone has good days and bad days,” you whispered, “including me, but yours are not my fault. I don’t want you to shut me out Oscar, I want to be able to help you, even if there’s very little I can do, at least it’s something.” 

His head nodded, pressing a kiss against the top of your shoulder. You were spot on, you were the last person to blame for how Oscar’s day went, you just so happened to be in the wrong place in the wrong time. 

“I’m always here for you,” you reminded Oscar, “it doesn’t matter what’s happened, you know I’m always going to be with you, right?” 

He continued nodding as you spoke. “I’m sorry I made you feel like I don’t appreciate you being with me today, because I do appreciate it, more than anything.” 

“Will you remind yourself of that next time you come home after a bad day?” 

“I promise that I’ll never forget it.” 

˗ˏˋ 𝐌𝐀𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐑𝐋𝐈𝐒𝐓 ! ´ˎ˗

[caplanbuckybarnes]

Tension Logs (Steve Rogers, Tony Stark)

gif sen to me by @krirebr back in october, just now going through my inbox full of gifs, sorry my love <3

Summary: overhearing an argument from Steve & Tony, you grow worried and with awe at the pure strength Steve possesses.

Warnings: none?

WC: 1K

A/N: there's no pairing in this and i honestly debated on posting this as is, or rewrite it a million more times lol.

Read On Ao3!

--

The farm was a welcome sight after everything that had happened. After the chaos, the battles, and the tension of saving the world yet again, Clint Barton’s peaceful farmhouse felt like a sanctuary—a place to breathe and maybe, for once, pretend things were normal.

You sat on the porch, your legs curled beneath you, watching the others as they scattered around the property. Natasha was keeping an eye on the kids while Clint and Thor discussed something about farming techniques—likely for a laugh, given Thor's complete lack of experience with Earth crops. Bruce was in the barn, tinkering with gadgets, and Vision was seated nearby, reading.

But your attention was drawn to the tension rising between two men who seemed to clash constantly: Steve Rogers and Tony Stark.

You could hear them before you saw them—loud, angry voices. Steve, usually so calm, was pacing, hands running through his short blonde hair in frustration. Tony was standing a few feet away, arms crossed, his expression tight with annoyance. The words were muffled from the porch, but the intensity between them was unmistakable.

"He's just not listening," Tony grumbled, rubbing his temple. “I’m trying to save everyone, Steve! But you keep acting like I’m the enemy here.”

Steve’s jaw was tight as he shook his head. “You think I don’t want to protect people? You’re not seeing the bigger picture here, Tony. If we keep going down this road, we’ll have no choice but to fight against ourselves.”

“Yeah, and how long until we’re fighting for our lives, huh?” Tony shot back, clearly exasperated. "You’re just blind to the fact that the rest of the world isn’t always going to play nice.”

You could feel the tension rising from where you sat. The last few days had been a whirlwind of emotions, battles with no real winners, and personal grievances that were still being worked out. But watching Tony and Steve argue like this... it was different. The anger was raw, not just from the situation, but from something deeper, something that neither of them was willing to admit.

You sighed, turning your gaze back to them, uncertain whether you should intervene. But before you could make a move, something unexpected happened.

Steve had stopped pacing, his face flushed with frustration, and Tony was busy running his hands through his hair, his back turned. That’s when Steve walked over to a large, thick log lying near the edge of the property, one that looked almost too heavy to move. Without saying a word, Steve dropped to one knee, grabbed hold of the log, and—without any visible hesitation—ripped it in half with his bare hands.

You blinked, certain you had imagined it, but when you saw Steve’s arms straining, his muscles tensing with the force of the action, you realized it was real. He wasn’t using any tools or anything to help him. No tech. No super-soldier serum enhancement. Just pure, raw strength. The snap of the log cracking in half was deafening in the stillness of the farm, and for a moment, you were sure even Tony had frozen in place.

For a long second, there was only the sound of Steve breathing heavily, his chest rising and falling as he stood over the splintered wood, his eyes unwavering. His gaze locked with Tony’s, and the tension between them suddenly felt different—more grounded, more purposeful.

Tony’s jaw dropped, his usual sarcastic wit faltering for a moment. “Jesus, Cap. You trying to kill me or just make me feel inadequate?”

Steve didn’t answer immediately. Instead, he straightened up, wiping his hands on his pants as though the task had been as simple as pulling a thread from his sleeve. His face was set, but there was a softness behind his eyes, something you recognized as tiredness—not from age, but from the weight of the responsibility that he carried.

“You can’t fix everything, Tony,” Steve said, his voice quieter now, though it still held that unshakeable determination. “But you can try to do the right thing. I need you to understand that.”

Tony didn’t say anything at first, still staring at the broken log, clearly in shock at what he had just witnessed. Slowly, his expression softened, and he nodded, though you could see the struggle in his eyes.

“I know,” Tony replied after a moment, his voice rough. “I just… I don’t know how to stop screwing up.”

The vulnerability in his voice was something you rarely heard from Tony Stark, and it made your heart ache for him. But then, to your surprise, Steve stepped closer, clapping Tony lightly on the shoulder.

“You don’t have to be perfect, Tony,” Steve said, the warmth in his voice unmistakable now. “None of us do. Just don’t give up on trying.”

You couldn’t help but smile softly, watching the interaction unfold. In that moment, you realized just how strong Steve Rogers truly was—not just in his physical strength, but in his unwavering belief in people, in their ability to change, to do better.

You knew that strength now extended beyond just his shield. It was in his words, in the way he carried the weight of responsibility on his shoulders, and in how, no matter how many times Tony fell short of his own expectations, Steve would always be there to pull him up again.

You stood up quietly, unsure if they even realized you were there. The argument had defused, and now, Tony and Steve were standing side by side, silently processing everything that had just happened. The tension between them was still there, but you could see the cracks beginning to heal, just a little.

With a quiet breath, you stepped back inside the house, letting the door swing closed behind you. There was still a lot of work to be done before the world would feel right again, but for now, you felt a flicker of hope. Steve Rogers, in all his strength, had proven once again that the world wasn’t just saved by punches or tech. It was saved by the quiet power of believing in each other.

And maybe, just maybe, that was the kind of strength that would carry them all through the rest of the storm.

[three-plums]

there are people on this website who assume everyone wants to fight with them all the time and cannot imagine that someone would make a good faith addition to their post to expand upon the topic. and instead just gets mad that this person has the audacity to have a slightly different opinion.

[flash-silver-4316]

#said something to this effect in lonerbox's chat but: some people want to be able to label you so they can just dismiss everything#you have to say. for rwingers its to label us as feminists/leftists/liberals. for the far left its to label people alt right/rw/liberal-#but i find a lot of people- in 'debates' are actually just sitting there trying to figure out to categorize you to see if they will actuall#listen which is! so easy to manipulate if you're aware people are doing that.#like if you're some dickshit online who realizes thats what a lot of people do you could manipulate that in a way to where people avoid#an entire group of people. like if you're some asshole online w a lot of influence- you could convince your audience- if they're culty and#loyal enough- to never ever engage with x type of people. so then when people get in an argument a lot of people arent actually focusing#on the subject so much and dont. yknow. actually try to fucking convince ppl of their beliefs- the whole fucking point- they're instead#trying to sleuth out the talking points or whatever they were told the beliefs/traits of x group were in the conversation to decide#if they can label you that way and then dismiss you entirely.#people are doing it rn with the term 'zionist'.

I am deeply distrustful of anyone who cares so much about adhering to their political alignment and to the letter of theory that they no longer see people as individual human beings, each with complex and different lived experiences, and instead sees them as homogeneous blobs or as a means to an end. "I'm a leftist," "I'm right wing," "I'm a liberal," "I'm a communist," "I'm a socialist," and so on and so on.

Yeah, but do you still see people who disagree with you as people? Or as the automatic Other? Do you care so much about having the "correct" beliefs that your humanity and the humanity of those around you fades into unimportance?

[geodesick]

[ID: a drawing of pye from outer wilds, standing with her writing staff. she's wearing an orange nomai space suit without the helmet, and she has a light brown face with curly darker brown fur. end ID]

figuring out how i want to draw the nomai, so here's a pye since i am obsessed with her !!!

[myrmica]

its so funny that all minute—the guy who once upon a time hoped to redeem zam—'s team has accomplished is getting him to consider giving up his remaining honor in order to match the level they're playing on ?

[tarre-was-right]

@professorscrooge:

Additional Propaganda: Satine has raised (or was some kind of parental role to) a nearly model citizen/future politician who wanted to help people, uphold justice, end corruption etc. From what little we see of him, Satine passed her ideals and drive on to Korkie. Jaster trained/traumatised his adopted son into becoming one of the galaxy's biggest war criminals.

@raspberryzingaaa:

#yeah i dont care im still pro jaster lmfao not sorry #listen you also cant actuallu fully judge what their prowess was bc both had circumstances that were being affected by the sith #satine was only allowed to reign for so long because having a weak mandalore was good for palps #also you cant fully decimate a culture and call it ruling. like not even just the armor but everything alse #and its also very hard to tell what is true based on the cartoons bc were all the mandos blue eyed blonde bc of animation reasons? #bc one of the old mando things was adoption and a broad mix of species. #but yeah we cant really/fully tell bc of the sith influences. but imo i think the guy the sith Really didnt want in power might be best #and i am absolutely not a satine hater. i love her and i repect where shes coming from #but also the rep com books were an influential part of my teenage hood (for better or for worse)

(I did promise to share even the arguments that are based in fanon. Sorry.)

@prankprincess123:

#listen - this is quite possibly an actual political debate that (at least part of) mandalore actually had in canon #cause jaster died just a handful of years before satine came to power and was relevant to the circumstances surrounding such #and in an ideal universe youd have the supercomandos and new-mandalorians finding equal ground #and working together to deal with death watch (who ultimately took down both groups and helped blow up the planet) #but jaster is enough of a mess that he was one of the triggers of the civil war that ultimately put satine in charge #and she took this disaster and turned it into a functional government/culture/system and kept it that way for ~20y #and the only reason it didnt stay functional is because *checks notes* the sith decided they dont like her #like how competent of a ruler must you be for the cult thats been trying to destabilize your rule to turn to evil wizards for help #and how much of a widespread force for good must one be to have an evil wizard cult decide that you specifically need to die #satine should win by a landslide

@ironborealis:

#Mereel's reforms were the stepping stones to Satine's succesful rule #But his vision was too small #Satine and Mereel BOTH struggled with corruption inside their ranks #The way she tears off on a speeder to rescue Kenobi in her first episode? #Satine isn't afraid of a fight #she just wants to prevent unnecessary conflicts #some of y'all don't understand the philosophies of nonviolence at all #Satine can be as ruthless as any other Mando #She will not hesitate to fuck someone up #She literally burned a fucking warehouse full of evidence because she wanted to send a message that corruption was not tolerated

FINALE - You might want to read the propaganda this time. Lots of misinfo in fandom on these two in particular.

Remember, this is NOT about who would win in a fight. This is about who makes the best leader for Mandalore as a whole.

Explanation post

Seeding

Propaganda below the cut! You can submit more on this post and I will reblog it back to here! I was going to keep the text-only bits above the readmore, but we got enough in that it takes up more space than I thought.

Yes, I will even reblog the stuff based on fanon, but I will judge you for it.

SATINE KRYZE

Anon: Satine because she served. Mandalorian fashion week would love her. Manda'slay.

Anon: Satine Propaganda: Was supported by the STRONG MAJORITY, led Mandalore to be in peace for NEARLY 20 YEARS, didn't ban mando'a or armour or any part of the culture like fandom claims, is a good fighter, considered EVERY Mandalorian a Mandalorian and didn't discriminate

@lightsaberwieldingdalek: Satine propaganda: she actually ran a functioning government. Not a mercenary band, or a death cult, or a terrorist extremist organisation, an actual functioning government. Yes there was corruption, corruption she did her best to stop to the point of personally getting in firefights with smugglers, but she took a planet devastated by civil war and by the end of her rule she had schools, public works, and a justice system. - Sure, the rest can run military operations (and we don’t know Satine couldn’t, only that she *won’t*) but can they make the bins get emptied regularly to go to the recycling plants?

@lightsaberwieldingdalek: I understand Jaster has the tacticool appeal, and has the iconic armour, but guys. He did an interpretation of some problematic historical values for the more modern day, led a mercenary band, and under unknown circumstances his group started calling him the historical-cultural title of the ruler of their entire cultural group. I know he’s cool looking, and shoots real good, but at most he’s the equivalent of someone who could be a cult leader but doesn’t want to be. - Meanwhile. Satine. You have issues with her ethical code, and she’s not a cool cause she doesn’t wear the armour. And yet she is the one who *actually ran mandalore*. For 20-ish years, and not only kept it stable but built it up from the ruins of civil war! - Yes yes T-helmet cool and military man competence nice, but that cannot equal taking the ruins of a war torn society and turning it into a mostly peaceful (when terrorism happened it was a big shocking deal, not normalised) urbanised people who eat well, have access to luxury and specialised education (get a offworld Jedi to come lecture) and can ACTUALLY BREATH IN THE ATMOSPHERE RUINED BY ALL THE WARLORDS LIKE JASTER TRYING TO FIGHT THE REPUBLIC TO PROVE THEMSELVES.

Anon: Satine propaganda: she knows what the aftermath of war is like. Jaster knows war from a soldier's perspective, a commander's perspective. But Satine knows it from a noncombatant's perspective. She's seen the aftermath and wreckage it leaves behind. Rebuilding after a war takes far longer and likely costs more than the war itself. I don't think Jaster cares about what happens after the battle. But Satine most certainly does.

@archangelsunited: Efficient and long lasting leader of her faction for years, was able to navigate neutrality with the Republic during the Clone Wars. Excellent Hair pieces.

@publiusmaximum: She allowed her society to experience it's first moment of peace and prosperity in a thousand years. - After she was killed, her society was taken over by fascists and gangsters. In short order Mandalore was razed, made uninhabitable, and her people scattered. - Satine was right about everything.

JASTER MEREEL

Anon: Jaster is the one who should rule Mandalore and all Mandalorians, although he started small he searched to make a new code of conduct for Mandalorian bounty hunters, he tries to keep the culture intact yet keep Mandalore progressive and not stuck in the past and from killing each other.

@spacetime1969: He literally rewrote what it means to be Mandalorian, and he created an entire movement around said philosophy that had a good chance of becoming the controlling party of Mandalore if he hadn't been assassinated. What more do you want?

Anon: Jaster for the win, he's the most recent one who actually knows some shit (as much as I love Din Djarin this poor man doesn't know ANYTHING), besides Jango and Boba but they're both very unstable individuals.

@nerdpickle: Jaster, his philosophy perfectly balanced tradition and reform, keeping the best of both worlds, he was also one of the few people chosen by the people

Mereel is a strong and powerful leader. He defeated the traiter Tor Viszla in battle and even took in a poor, orphaned Concordian child after the battle. No more will Mandalore be forced to consider such petty ideals as peace in order to avoid outright war. Instead, we shall be known throughout the galaxy as the greatest mercenaries the galaxy has ever known. Under his rule, we shall triumph over the foolish savages of planets unconquered and be paid handsomely for it!

Anon: Mereel is a strong and powerful leader. He defeated the traiter Tor Viszla in battle and even took in a poor, orphaned Concordian child after the battle. No more will Mandalore be forced to consider such petty ideals as peace in order to avoid outright war. Instead, we shall be known throughout the galaxy as the greatest mercenaries the galaxy has ever known. Under his rule, we shall triumph over the foolish savages of planets unconquered and be paid handsomely for it!

@archangelsunited: Had a structured document for Mandalorian Culture in the modern (tm) day. He fought with the warriors he sent out and took personal interest in the results of his actions (Jango Fett mentorship). Pissed off Tor Vizla.

@nerdpickle: Satine’s Mandalore was like Switzerland, except without the well trained military, incredibly advantageous terrain, high gun ownership and giant nuclear armed alliance providing a free buffer zone on all sides.

SATINE

@bosooka: Originally here

i wrote way too much for my original draft of this (and it turned into a "fuck jaster mereel" party) so here's an abbreviated version

Why Satine is a Better Ruler Than Jaster in 2 Simple Points

Point #1: Satine actually maintained order on Mandalore for decades

This one is simple. Mereel became Mandalore in ~60BBY and Tor Vizsla tried to overthrow him a mere two years later (and nearly succeeded). He was only in power for six more years before he was betrayed by the very same violent people he allowed to remain by his side because of his belief that a Mandalorian warrior was "merely a highly-paid soldier".

Contrast Satine: ruled from approx. 42BBY until 19BBY, a reign of 23-odd years. For twenty-odd years of her reign New Mandalore was completely peaceful and there were no challengers to her authority among the people or elsewhere. Death Watch only became an issue again when they received Separatist (and ultimately Sith) backing, and Dooku discarded them for being useless. Had Death Watch not allied itself with Maul's Shadow Collective I don't think she would have been overthrown at all.

Point #2: Satine kept Mandalore out of places it didn't belong

As we've established, Mereel had no issues with Mandalorians being mercenaries, used however their clients saw fit. I won't go into the weeds of the ethical implications of mercenaries and why they are illegal under international law on Earth, but in short: letting anyone pay one to kill others is the easiest way to become the cudgel of a fascist. Coincidentally exactly what the Fett clones become when Sidious uses them to exterminate the Jedi. Mereel's "reforms" of the Mandalorian ways did not prevent his troops from getting into a fight they couldn't win against the Jedi on Galidraan (and yes, the Mandalorians shot first:

not that anyone in the fandom remembers this...) after they but an insurrection down on behalf of the corrupt governor of the planet. To be clear, the True Mandos knew that the governor of Galidraan was corrupt and most likely harboring Tor Vizsla, but they still agreed to kill "insurrectionists" for money. Their problems came when Death Watch arranged to make it look like they had also killed women and children. Truly a war between saints and monsters.

Meanwhile Satine: the head of the Council of Neutral Systems, she refused to take sides in a war pushed by the greedy and violent. Yes, she was briefly protected by clones when it comes to light that Death Watch is aligned with the Separatists, but it was immediately followed by the Republic attempting to militarily occupy Mandalore and Satine risking life and limb to keep her people autonomous. Satine refused to become a useful idiot for warmongers, even knowing that it would have been economically advantageous for her to do so. Unlike Jaster Mereel, she has ideals that she values more than credits. He would have accepted an offer from the highest bidder and turned Mandalore into a machine of war for the Sith, just like his Crusader ancestors once did.

Tl;Dr

Satine was actually respected as an authority on Mandalore for literal decades and was only challenged by a miniscule faction of terrorists who had to get foreigners to interfere in their political processes (FML) in order to actually take power from her

Satine kept Mandalore out of conflicts it did not belong in, which largely protected it from military occupation and destruction until the year she died; Mereel made a career out of interfering in the affairs of other planets if they were paid to do so

Unlike Mereel and his successor, Satine had morals to motivate her decisions that were not the pursuit of cold hard cash, including the protection of Mandalorian independence and neutrality

[solarstarss]

we need more speech and debate au fics. oh sports au? how about the sport of the mind. this is peak academic rivals to lovers. how about competing against your years-long rival in every tournament where your job is to prove how wrong they are in a 5 min speech? the tension. yes lay out your arguments and then watch as i refute them all and then make out with me

[tswwwit]

i have a counter argument to the 'only one person can boop bill' thing, mabel. she's the type of person to slap stickers on people, she would definitely be the type to also boop others occasionally and bill would be no exception. she probably doesn't do it to annoy bill like dipper would, but maybe as a form of a friendly gesture, kind of like those people who will lightly punch friends in the arm when they hang out.

You know what? Good point. Mabel would get away with more than most, as a fun-loving lady! Bill understands those impulses, and being a touchy person! He indulges in similar ones himself.

Though when Bill's not in the mood to be playful and gets booped anyway? The 'sister-in-law' status grants her considerable grace.

[mikakuna]

so many other jason fans are all "yeah he's done wrong and characters/people are valid not to like him but he's complex in the ways blah blah" and it's like yeah sure

but i just straight up refuse to care that he's done wrong. you can bring it up to me in an argument and i will not care. i will tell you to your face he's done nothing wrong and everyone else is being dramatic.

[anaalnathrakhs]

oh god ed reddit is having the “uwu anorexia isn’t rooted in fatphobia my mental illness is not abt you” talk again please god help me

fatphobia doesn’t mean “being a meanie to fat ppl” i’m begging you to use critical thinking skills for five seconds and apply what you know about literally any other form of oppression to this situation.

people’s point isn’t that you having anorexia makes them feel bad and therefore you’re a bad fatphobic person.

they’re pointing out how the deeply ingrained fatphobia our society upholds, from misconceptions about health to moralization of looks and weight, including yes being jerks to fat ppl’s faces bc they’re fat, is affecting what you think about your own looks, weight, health, body, clothes, eating habits, etc.

the logic isn’t “you became anorexic because you hate fat people so much you never wanted to be fat yourself (and that makes you a bad person)” it’s “fatphobia is a prism that transforms the root cause of your ed into disordered thoughts, behaviors, and patterns (and unlearning fatphobia will help you with recovery and harm-reduction)”

like. it’s not for no reason that anorexia is a disorder that disproportionatedly affects women. it’s not for no reason that there’s sky high comorbidity rates for eds and ocd. it’s not for no reason that people who need control in their lives so badly that they develop a mental disorder abt it get obssessed with being skinny and not with being a sumo. it’s not for no reason that ppl who feel the need to retract to childhood due to trauma envy things like being skinny light and frail, instead of being a tubby baby. it’s not for no reason that there is an incredibly common anorexic thought pattern (internal and self-directed, don’t make me say what i didn’t say) that associaties restriction and weight loss with moral goodness.

for each of these there IS a number of exceptions, but you can see case by case how the root cause (trauma, need for control, for self-destruction, growing up poor, whatever you think is “unrelated to fatphobia” basically) is processed through the prism of the fatphobic culture we’ve all been raised in. some people just, voluntarily or not, deal with those root causes in different way, which might or might not be healthy. but it’s a consequence of ambiant fatphobia that “i should starve and be skinny about it” is a statistically pretty common response to this distress.

the point isn’t “it’s fatphobic that you don’t deal with your neuroses in a body positive way uwu” the point is that no matter how cool you are with fat people on like, a personal level, you’ve been (like the rest of us) bombarded with fatphobic thought patterns your entire life basically, both directly fatphobic things and reactions to this fatphobia. maybe spoken to you directly, maybe not. maybe about you maybe about other people. you live in a society that places moral values into looks and health, and also pushes some deeply rooted falsehoods about how those things tie into each other. you have a disorder defined by obsessive behaviors. maybe, just maybe, deconstructing the logic that those obsessives behaviors are based upon will help you deal with this disorder. and recover or reduce harm.

basically, anorexia isn’t “getting skinny disorder” it’s “obsession disorder”, obsession with looking attractive, or pleasing your family, or going back to being a kid, or being healthy, or being fit, or being driven and capable, or being worth saving, or having your suffering known, or having control over something, or whatever. the fatphobia that is omnipresent (and i repeat, omnipresent, nobody is singling you out as a bad fatphobic meanie, or even talking about your behavior towards other people around you) in our society picks the direction in which many many people will express that disorder.

of course if you live in a society that tells you “being fat is morally bad” at every turn, when you start developping an obssessive pathological need to control things, without another factor weighting in, most people’s default reaction will be anorexia. food is a regular fixture of everybody’s life, everyone wants to be morally good, and even if we know/understand/believe to an extent the flaws of that “fat = bad” logic we know the world around us still believes it, and nobody wants to be treated like shit. we can think it’s stupid and fight against fatphobia and work to treat fat ppl better in our lives and support body positivity, but in any case, one always judges oneself on different metrics than they judge others, cuz we control our self-improvement. that’s natural. just it doesn’t mesh well with a pathologically obssessive need for control above self-preservation.

[sammypog]

did you guys know how freeing it is to not care. like you dont have to care about every single thing ever you can look at something and just tell yourself “i really dont give a shit” and just forget about it you dont have to invest yourself in every thing ever ive been so much happier knowing that i do not have to be involved in everything