#not even all Riveras

[rin-sith]

*That* scene in Six Hundred Strike is not about vengeance, it's about vulnerability ... because the Vengeance saga isn't about vengeance

To think all of this started because I was trying to determine why it feels so natural to read intimacy into the torture scene in Six Hundred Strike ... See, I'm personally not someone who reads an angle like this into things easily, but this time I found myself doing it too. And I just needed to know why.

It just made no sense for a while, because if you look at it superficially, it shouldn't make sense; it's a freaking torture scene. But I don't know, somehow, I must have felt that there was something there ... and I think I figured it out.

See, the reason why it feels so natural to read intimacy into this scene is because ... it actually is incredibly intimate. Not in an actually sexual way, but more so in a, "Imagine you were suddenly able to read someone's mind, and they yours" kind of intimacy.

It's really easy to just assume Six Hundred Strike is literally about vengeance, but it isn't. Now, please stick with me for a bit because we are going on a bit of a tangent here, but I promise we'll get back to this eventually.

The tangent I want to explore first is (as you've probably seen in the title) that the whole Vengeance saga is, ironically, about the unnecessity of vengeance and how destructive grudges and resentment can be. Think about it:

In Not Sorry For Loving You, Odysseus lets Calypso rant and then walks away without confronting her or accusing her, even telling her what she wants to hear one last time. I already discussed why Odysseus is an incredibly non-judgmental, non-resentful person in my Monster essay, and here is another excellent example of that.

Charybdis (I'm skipping Dangerous because he doesn't encounter any enemies there) is the first "monster" enemy he leaves alive since Polyphemus (Scylla doesn't count because he still "kills" for the sake of getting past her, even if it's in the form of sacrificing his men.) While one might argue that he had no choice since Charybdis is virtually impossible to kill, I think placing this encounter here might be an intentional choice especially since it differs greatly from the way that Charybdis is in the Odyssey. There has to be reason behind this change.

In Get In The Water (my beloved 🫶) we are explicitly shown that Odysseus offers Poseidon (the god who killed his whole fleet and is responsible for most of his suffering) forgiveness. The reason Odysseus has to torture him in the first place is Poseidon's own refusal of this mercy—he's literally torturing Poseidon in order to make him finally release the grudge because he has proven that this is the only way to actually get through to him. It actually shows perfectly that Poseidon's own inability to release his resentment became his downfall in the end, disproving his own "ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" motto as his own ruthlessness bit him in the a** this time, as I talked about in this post.

... And there is no resentment or vengeance in Six Hundred Strike either.

On one hand, it's easy to assume phrases like "For every comrade, every one of my friends, almost all of whom were slaughtered by your hand" or "How does it feel to be helpless? How does it feel to know pain?" indicate resentment, but ... not really.

We already know that Odysseus doesn't want vengeance, or he wouldn't have tried to lead from the heart one song earlier.

And then make yourself aware of something else: Not once during any of their encounters is Odysseus actually accusing or resenting Poseidon for anything.

"Almost all of whom were slaughtered by your hand" is an objective fact. It's just true. Someone vengeful may have said "I'll make you pay for all of those you slaughtered" or "All of their deaths are your fault" ... Odysseus just says, "for every comrade". He doesn't specify what he's doing for his comrades ... and it sure as hell isn't that he's (trying to) cause Poseidon pain or harm for them (which would be vengeance.)

For every comrade, he is fighting Poseidon, in order to finally reach his goal. For every comrade, he's doing everything that he has to do in order to get home, and in order to end this feud.

And then we get to the torture scene and it's ... actually so incredibly freaking intimate. Because it's not actually about vengeance, it's not about accusing Poseidon, or making him pay, or suffer more than necessary. If Odysseus were speaking from a genuine vengeance angle, he'd probably sound more like, "You killed my friends, now you pay for it. You did this to me and now it is your time to suffer." But he doesn't.

The torture scene in Six Hundred Strike is actually ... just another, much more extreme, repeat of Odysseus' lines from Get In The Water (my beloved 🫶): "Aren't you tired, Poseidon? It's been ten years, how long will this go? We're both hurting from losses, so why not leave this here and just go home?"

Odysseus tried saying it nicely ... now he's stabbing him with his own trident, hoping, practically begging, that he finally listens and accepts. Just lets them both go home.

And the thing is, this time, he isn't just saying "we're both hurting from losses" ... All you have to do is repeat to yourself Odysseus' entire monologue that he unleashes while he's stabbing him in a calmer, gentler tone and you'll see that what he is actually yelling out at Poseidon are all of the reasons why he is hurting. Sharing with him all of the pain that he probably hasn't shared with anyone ... ever.

"How does it feel to be helpless? How does it feel to know pain?" -> How does it feel to be vulnerable? I've felt vulnerable for so long without anyone to talk to or because no one truly understood me or what I'm going through.

"I watched my friends die in horror, crying as they were all slain. I heard their final moments, calling their captain in vain." -> This is why I am hurting. These are my losses.

"Look what you turned me into. Look what we've become." -> Look what I could be if I actually followed your lessons. Is this what you really want? Why can't you understand the harm that this is causing both of us?

"All of the pain that I've been through ... haven't I suffered enough?" -> Aren't you tired, Poseidon? It's been ten years, how long will this go? We're both hurting from losses, so why not leave this here and just go home?"

"You didn't stop when I begged you." -> I asked you to "Stop this, please" mere minutes ago. You didn't stop. That's why I'm doing this.

"(You) told me to close my heart. You said the world is dark. Didn't you say that ruthlessness is mercy?" -> I'm doing what you said you wanted me to do. Do you really want this? Do you really believe this? Can something like this really be mercy?

The first time I heard this, I firmly believed that Odysseus was actually crying during this part, and honestly, I believe that to this day. The canon visuals don't show us his face and I want to almost say that's intentional.

This whole scene is about vulnerability. Forced vulnerability, in a lot of ways, but raw, real vulnerability nonetheless.

This isn't just a torture scene; it's actually one of the most intimate scenes we've ever seen Odysseus share with anyone on screen. Seldom do we see him this honest in front of others (the vulnerable scene with Circe at the end of There Are Other Ways is the only other example I can think of.) Otherwise, all of his honest, raw songs are his solo songs (Monster, Just A Man, ...)

But here, Odysseus is essentially using the symbol of Poseidon's invulnerability—his trident—to force him into the most vulnerable position that he's probably been in centuries, if not ever ... and at the same time, he is being incredibly vulnerable himself. He's opening up to Poseidon in a kind of absolute way that we have actually never seen him open up to anyone.

... If that is not intimacy in its rawest, most painful, uncomfortable, and yet cathartic forms, I don't know what is.

As if that weren't sad enough... The saddest part about all of this is actually Poseidon's "Monster!" ... Because it tells us without a doubt that he is actually incapable of receiving or understanding those words from Get In The Water (my beloved 🫶). He is incapable of understanding vulnerability. All he can see is the "monstrous" act that accompanies it because that is something he knows and recognizes.

Although I believe, in the end, Odysseus did get through to him, and did get him to drop the grudge, I believe it happened on a kind of subconscious level rather than genuine acknowledgment or agreement. It's further proof of how Odysseus is capable of growth while Poseidon isn't (yet.)

Poseidon remains stuck in his ways, in his "ruthlessness" philosophy, because he isn't ready to acknowledge its flawed nature, essentially making it his own cage that prevents him from growing or moving forward. Meanwhile, Odysseus is walking away, walking ahead.

... Part of me almost wants to claim that he started begging Odysseus to stop so quickly not because of the physical pain, but because of his words. Because the vulnerability forced on him was hurting in a way that physical injuries, even from his own trident, never could. Because deep down, very deep down, he must've ... "felt" what Odysseus wanted him to understand and feel anyway.

Remember how I compared this type of intimacy to the sudden ability to read someone's mind before? I chose this analogy for a reason. What is intimacy if not using the very source of a god's invulnerability, essentially putting yourself into his divine shoes, doing what you know he would do to you ... in order to force him to connect to your mortal feelings and pains, even if he can still not truly understand them?

Here is where we see, for the first time, maybe ever, what even Odysseus and Athena couldn't do (yet), and the core reason why their partnership broke apart: a mortal and a divine genuinely understood each other's perspectives ... saw themselves in the other, even if only for a moment.

Given all that ... there is absolutely nothing I can say against kicking my feet and giggling excitedly over this scene.

[s0fter-sin]

what up i’ve been obsessed with would you fall in love with me again like every other person on the planet and i can’t stop thinking about penelope’s final verse

she’s so angry; angry that odysseus would dare to suggest that her love for him has faltered or his actions were enough to destroy it. she’s been waiting, working her fingers raw unweaving her shroud every night, not sleeping as the suitors camp inside her home; every day a threat to her and her son, to her kingdom if an unworthy man - and they are all unworthy - should take the throne. she knew they wouldn’t wait forever, that at some point her deception would be realised; her dedication to her husband means she is at constant risk and the first thing odysseus does when he sees her - if this even is him - is question her love for him?

the very first thing he says (other than her name) is, “i am not the man you fell in love with.” penelope asks him if it’s really him standing there or if she’s “dreaming once more”. once more. she’s felt the cruelty of hope before; has looked at her doorway and seen odysseus the same as when he left (which is probably partly why she’s so shocked by how he actually looks) and felt unfathomable pain when her hopes were dashed over and over again. she asks if he is really her odysseus and he says no

yes, in his mind, odysseus can’t see how he can deserve her love after everything he’s done - the atrocities he’s committed, to himself he isn’t the same man, “i see a man who gets to make it home alive, but it’s no longer you” - but all penelope hears is her husband, the man she loves and waited for, doubts the strength of her love

penelope asks what kind of things he’s done and it must be shocking to hear; his actions so different from the man who left her behind even if he did them in name of returning to her. but when she asks him to move the bed, it’s as much a challenge as it is a test. she’s asking him to prove that he is the monster he claims to be; that if he’s changed so much and become so heartless, he should have no qualms about ripping the symbol of their love from its roots. and it’s also her only way of actually determining if this man who claims to be her husband yet doesn’t take her in his arms, is actually him

“just a moment of labour would bring me some peace” - if he does what she asks, then she will know either he’s changed so much that he’s no longer her odysseus or he’s another fake and was never hers to begin with; that her husband didn’t just stand in front of her and claim she can’t love him as he is. but she’s done. she was already willing to die when she stood behind the twelve axes she challenged the suitors to shoot through. she’s so tired. she just wants it all to be over

“only my husband knew that, so i guess that makes him you” - i guess. even after telling her something only odysseus and her knew, penelope’s still not convinced that it’s truly him. how many men came to her door claiming to be her long lost husband, banking on time and distance to dull memory of his face and voice, on her longing and desperation for odysseus to blind her into believing them?

but if this is her husband? if the man she’s loved through decades of absence has finally returned to her?

“i will fall in love with you over and over again” - an exhausted promise, the core of who penelope is and how she feels; assuaging his doubts and his own clear pain

but

“no matter how long it’s been, you’re mine. don’t tell me you’re not the same person, you’re always my husband” - penelope is screaming at him; how dare odysseus say this to her? dismiss her love and her suffering? he saw the men outside, he’s smart enough to know what they were here for and instead of apologising for being gone for so long, instead of begging for forgiveness for inadvertently putting her and their son at risk, instead of embracing her and putting an end to her torment, odysseus doubts her

“and i’ve been waiting, waiting” - the tone shift of penelope screaming at him to lamenting how long she’s been waiting is heartbreaking; it’s quieter as she gets lost in the pain of her grief, her anger failing as she recalls the memories of her long years of solitude. odysseus tries to call her back with his gentle “penelope” - such a contrast to his own exhausted anger at being asked to destroy their marital bed now that he understands why she asked that of him - but she can’t hear him; she’s too trapped in the memories. he tries again, still gentle but more insistent, and this time she does hear him and her anger comes rushing back along with her grief. her “waiting, waiting,” becomes almost accusatory; she’s been alone for so long and it’s bc of him, bc he wasn’t there, bc he left her waiting

that abrupt “oh” at the end of the verse isn’t just a vocalisation; in that moment, she’s realising that she has realised that he truly is odysseus. she knew it was him before she even processed it. she wouldn’t be this angry if he were anyone else; love and grief and anger coalescing in one single divine moment where penelope finally believes her odysseus has returned to her

“for you” - she’s been waiting and waiting, years turning to dust, her sleepless nights and days spent living in fear and preemptive grief- and it was all for him. odysseus is actually here. which means her waiting is over

“how long has it been?”

“20 years”

“i- i love you”

[shinedoitsulikeabright]

Started from the bottom (hyperfixating on Greek mythology as a child) now we're here (hyperfixating on Epic: the musical + thirsting over the gods). History really does repeat itself.

[minlicious]

damn, god forbid someone (character who committed literal war crimes) has hobbies (murder) 🙄🙄

[therabbitthatpostthings]

I feel the main reason that the Ernesto De La Cruz twist worked as opposed to other twist villains is because he already sucked as a character before we knew the truth.

All we knew about Miguel's grandfather is that he was blinded by the starlight, abandoned his wife and daughter and didn't even send them anyway to support themselves. Even in death, he's not visiting his living family or giving the Rivera family the time of day. He's surrounded by adoring fans and having a lavish party, using spirit guides as servants. We are told explicitly that this man is awful!

So when we find out that this is Hector's ex partner who ruined not just his life, but his FAMILY'S life- the twist isn't "Oh my god he's awful!" it's "OH MY GOD! He's worse than I thought!"

[somesemblance]

I’ve completely forgotten when he even shows up in PJO but just bear with me, just let me fancast -

Mr Jorge Rivera-Herrans as Apollo????

[leynaeithnea]

Theres nothing quite as the sadistic and gremlin joy of seeing people go through the expierence of Epic and letting us watch their excitement and pain on screen

So grateful for all the reactors out there giving us content to bring us through the time between releases

Especially a shoutout to Casper and Mortius they are wonderful people and content creators and deserve all the love ♡

(Also not forgetting animators and literally the rest of the fandom keeping us afloat between releases not least of all Jay for the regular updates and videos, im so grateful for all of this)

[theoakleafpancake]

I would like to say that I will NOT be taking any Eurylochus slander

[inkbirdie]

think i'm finding my new style, kind of comic book-ish

Ody with the blessing of Ares

uncolored (except for the blood) under the cut

[feniksido]

The Vampire and The Wolf

[anthropomorphicnothingness]

I love epic the musical

It genuinely made my whole year better

Thank you Jorge and Crew

Never stop being amazing ❤️

This is my glorious art for the musical that will stand beside all the other glorious works of art (the first one is Telemachus)

[caleohateclub]

watch an EPIC reaction video and obliterate someone close to you every time they make a:

“This is so… EPIC” joke.

You’ll have killed more people than Odysseus did by the end of it.

[phalevolent]

Listening to Jorge’s “My Heart Says Go” musical almost four years since the first time I’ve heard it.

I know the studio recording has been out for a while now, but the last time I listened to it in 2021 it was on the wix site with all the old demos and Jorge singing as Indigo.

in my room sobbing because he really fucking did it, didn’t he?

[percytheboykisser]

guys i'm flipping out i need the wisdom saga NOWWWWWWUSDUUDUDIGK

[cs-cabin-and-crew]

All my doodles during the wisdom saga stream! You can tell I struggled with Athena 😂.

It was such a good stream! I think the ‘if not your friend then mine’ lyrics just destroyed me.

More drawings to come that are actually good.

I’ll be posting these doodles separately later too

[official-english-major]

Me opening my summer youtube music recap knowing damn well it's just epic the musical, hadestown, and death note the musical