#nation personification
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frostdrawz Ā· 4 months ago
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CH! Pennsylvania is so moth-coded to me for some reason
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maigetheplatypus57 Ā· 7 months ago
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Something I find really sweet but also really wild about Hetalia is just how genuinely enthusiastic and happy leaders of micronations are when they see their personifications in the anime
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Like idk... it's just really touching knowing how these characters have made a positive impact on the people they represent
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lionofchaeronea Ā· 2 years ago
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The Night, Peter Nicolai Arbo, 1887
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nordickies Ā· 3 months ago
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The thought of ā€œyoung Nations desperately wanting answers about their existence, find a purpose and a place/community to belong to" makes me go insane every time I think about it
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tianshiisdead Ā· 10 months ago
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(nation personification talking) I enjoy when nations have an investment in nationalismā€¦ naturally thereā€™s an alignment with the powerful majority and ruling class due to the inherent nature of nation as a political and constructed entity, and nationalism also feeds into the survival and ā€˜strengthā€™ of a nation (personification) as well. But the feeling of a scary nation whoā€™s deeply expecting the loyalty of their own (esp during tense eras) is very delicious
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forsoobado137 Ā· 8 months ago
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I bet HWS France is totally a sleepwalker. Usually it'll be something small like sitting up in bed or maybe standing up before going back to bed. But sometimes things get really crazy. He'll stagger around his apartment, cook strangely delicious meals, paint, dance, or maybe get himself stuck somewhere.
Mind you, he canonically sleeps in the nude, so he's doing all this with everything on display. God forbid he unlocks the door to his home and roams free.
It probably scares the shit out of whoever's sleeping with him. They're like "wow, what a sexy, charming man!" and they wake up to find him caressing the wall while mumbling about cheese.
Best part is, he's totally oblivious to it. Nobody's bothered to tell him.
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kaurwreck Ā· 5 months ago
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I'm sincere when I say I don't know how y'all have the energy to scrutinize Mori treating his successors like they're competent when the Port Mafia's skill users have been culled thrice over within seven years by men who can't act right (Rimbaud, Verlaine, Shibusawa, Gides, Fyodor), and the longevity of the tripartite framework relies on Mori not patronizing who's left.
Especially considering, like, there are foreign military police in modern Japan, British Somaliland appears to still exist, and Ango has seemingly kept Taneda in a medically induced coma for an irreversible amount of time so that he can unilaterally leverage Taneda's fictional authority within a very-historically-real cabinet in the Japanese government that hasn't existed irl since the Meiji constitution.
Like, I'm not asking anyone to engage with media in any other way than the way they enjoy most. It's just. Has anyone else noticed bsd!Russia appears to have annexed bsd!Abkhazia and bsd!South Ossetia.
All of this to say: you don't really have to beat the same dead horses if you don't want to. If you do, then by all means, lay into Equus with your whole chest. But, also. There's a lot in bsd the fandom scarcely, if at all, touches, and the incongruity between the work's layers and worldbuilding and even niche fandom engagement with the material is stark.
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fuimus-troes Ā· 2 months ago
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probably another unpopular opinion of mine: spain and portugal are cousins, not brothers. they had different mothers (if they even had mothers to begin with)
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vienaur Ā· 8 days ago
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Love the idea that nations are genderfluid, gender nonconforming, or whatever activists refer to it as.
Like after living for, what? 200 years? Even more depending on the country, they just... don't care anymore. They have more things to worry about than whatever gender they identify as. Pretending to be a dude for a mission? No worries. Growing out their hair and wearing a wedding gown? Sure, go. Refering to a 5'11, well-built dude in a suit, full beard, and all as "Her" and "Motherland"? Yep, that's Mother, alright.
This also adds to the fact that I've always felt like nations look pretty androgynous. Like even the most typically masculine or feminine of them could definitely still pull off being another gender. Honestly, they probably have.
Gender is probably the least concern of nations and don't care how people view them. They'll still dress typically feminine or masculine, but it's more so out of habit and not personal expression.
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gracheeez Ā· 3 months ago
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Serbia OC doodle compilation and facts about him!
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First concepts (down here) New concepts (above)
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So this is my dear Serbia, also known as Zoran Damjanić, so why don't we dive into his personality and some things about him?
DESIGN
He has pale skin with olive undertones, so not WHITE WHITE, but white. He can tan really nicely.
He has either greyish blue eyes OR brown honey eyes (I don't know exactly yet)
He has multiple war scars through his body. One can be found on his face; that goes through his right eye (I believe that's the right side); he also has some of them in his chest, arms, and legs, also on his back.
He has a beard and moustache, but it's not so prominent; I mean, it could be prominent, but he cuts it really close to his face, like a stubble, actually.
His hair is a dark chocolate tone but not so dark, like a really average dark brunette shade. Regarding the hairstyle, oh, that's the complicated part; he has messy hair; it can be said it's similar to a mullet. I believe I'll change it eventually; I'm not keen on mullets.
On his right arm, in the upper part, he has a tattoo of the Serbian Cross.
He uses glasses, specifically the rectangle type.
He has body hair, not so much as in other countries that are basically forests of body hair, but he does have quite some of it.
His body is toned but slimā€”not a skinny legend; he's fit and looks healthy; regarding height, he is 180 cm, 5 ft and 11 inches, I believe.
He usually wears a shirt with a vest (like the traditional clothing) with a pair of jeans and combat boots, OR a t-shirt with a random insult, jeans, combat boots, and a jacket.
PERSONALITY
Too bold, extremely bold.
Sometimes says the most obscene comments in the worst moments possible.
Extremely patriotic; he loves Serbia, but he's Serbiaā€¦ So he has an incredible self-love situation, so yes! Self stem.
He is someone who can either be considered fucking crazy or a mad genius.
Serbia is someone really intelligent; seriously, he can be extremely silly, but don't let that fool you; HE IS A GENIUS.
Zoran has a fascination for science, engineering, and... war.
He can be cold, distant, and even mean sometimes.
He loves sarcasm; it's his second language.
He is someone who can either HATE someone or EXTREMELY like them.
He is kind of extroverted; actually, HE IS really extroverted and loud.
He has an accordion called Tajtana; he loves her.
He loves playing sports, and he actually is pretty good at them.
He can get jealous of others and is also kind of protective of the ones he enjoys being around.
He is a certified and proud asshole.
He loves drinking Rakija, when he gets drunk, there are two outcomes: either the happiest man alive, or I have a chair on my hands and I won't hesitate to hit you hard.
He is really stubborn, seriously.
Serbia can be really straightforward; he won't hesitate to say the truth to anyone.
He has the worst dark humour ever, but dark humour that makes you go pale.
He is also someone really nice, of course; he can be a cutie patotie.
RELATIONS
Slovenia (Alenka Krajnc)
Zoran respects Alenka for her organisation and patience, traits he doesnā€™t often see in his chaotic world.
However, her independence from Yugoslavia left a markā€”Zoran still harbours a sense of betrayal, though he rarely expresses it openly.
Their conversations are polite but formal, with occasional sarcasm or subtle jabs. Alenka finds Zoran's bold nature exasperating, while he admires her ability to keep things together, even if he wonā€™t admit it.
They rarely seek each other out but can cooperate if necessary (alcohol MUST be involved).
Croatia (Darko Perković) - brother
Zoran and Darkoā€™s relationship is defined by bitterness and past betrayals.
As siblings, they have an undeniable bond, but itā€™s buried under layers of resentment.
Arguments frequently escalate quickly, with both being stubborn and unyielding. Darko is just as bold as Zoran, so their conflicts are quite intense (Can lead to physical fights)
Despite their rivalry, thereā€™s a reluctant acknowledgement of their shared history. In rare moments of vulnerability, they might show fleeting signs of brotherly careā€”but those moments are rare. (And as with Slovenia, alcohol MUST be involved).
Bosnia (Damir GalijaÅ”ević) - brother
Zoran and Damir have an outright horrible relationship.
The breakup of Yugoslavia amplified existing tensions, leaving both harbouring anger and grudges.
They avoid each other whenever possible, and when forced to interact, the atmosphere is icy, with sharp comments exchanged.
Zoran views Damir as overly sensitive, while Damir finds Zoran overbearing and selfish.
Their conversations often devolve into arguments.
They can be friends and have fun together if alcohol is involved.
Herzegovina (Zlata Hodžić) - sister in law
Zlata and Zoran canā€™t stand each other.
As Damirā€™s wife, Zlata sees Zoran as a toxic influence on her husband, and Zoran finds Zlata annoying and meddlesome.
Zoranā€™s sarcastic humor and blunt remarks only worsen their interactions, and Zlata is equally quick to fire back.
She dislikes how Zoran mocks Damir (even tho Damir mocks Zoran too).
Republika Srpska (Mirko Savić) - son
Mirko is the product of one of Zoranā€™s adventures, and Zoran genuinely loves him.
He takes great pride in Mirko and is very protective of him, more so than almost anyone else.
They share a lot of similaritiesā€”Zoran sees Mirko as a younger, better version of himself and encourages his strengths.
Mirko brings out Zoranā€™s softer side, and their interactions are full of warmth and humor.
Zoran is surprisingly patient with Mirko, which contrasts with his usual harsh demeanor.
Montenegro (Milica Vujović) ex-wife/ex-girlfriend/girlfriend
Zoran deeply loves Milica and considers her his best friend and closest confidante. However, his infidelity and brash nature have hurt her more than he intended.
Milica is incredibly naive and forgiving, which frustrates Zoran at times because he knows she deserves better. Yet he canā€™t imagine life without her.
Heā€™s fiercely protective of Milica, sometimes to the point of being controlling.
Their relationship is filled with ups and downsā€”passionate love tempered by moments of regret and pain.
Despite the flaws, Milicaā€™s unwavering loyalty keeps them together, and Zoran tries (and often fails) to be better for her.
Zoran and Milica's relationship is complex, deeply rooted in history, and layered with passion, jealousy, and a love that has weathered centuries.
They regularly break up and make up, leading to a cycle of constant emotional push and pull.
At times, their arguments escalate to full-blown fights, especially during the Yugoslav wars, but even in the peak of conflict, thereā€™s always a passionate reconciliation afterward.
Zoran is intensely protective of Milica and gets extremely jealous when she talks to others, particularly Croatia or Albania.
Despite his unfaithfulness twice (he had Vojvodina and Republika Srpska with TWO different women), Milica stays by his side, choosing to focus on their deep connection and often forgiving him for his transgressions.
They've been friends since practically ever, and they got married in 1918; they divorced in 2006.
Zoran sometimes visits Milica at 3 am and throws pebbles at her window, then proceeds to play his accordion, trying to win her (it always work)
Vojvodina (Vuk Pavlović) - son
Just as Republika Srpska, Vuk is the result of one of Zoranā€™s past adventures, and Zoran has a very good relationship with him.
Vuk takes after Zoran in both intelligence and boldness, which makes Zoran proud.
They bond over shared interests like engineering and sports, and Zoran is always encouraging Vukā€™s ambitions.
Their relationship is light-hearted and playful, with Zoran regularly jokingly teasing Vuk while still being supportive.
Kosovo (Luljeta KrasniqI)
Zoran and Luljetaā€™s relationship is deeply antagonistic.
The Kosovo conflict left wounds that havenā€™t healed, and Zoran is openly hostile toward her, refusing to acknowledge her independence.
Their interactions are marked by sharp words and confrontational attitudes.
Luljeta doesnā€™t back down, standing firm against Zoranā€™s arrogance.
Any attempt at diplomacy quickly deteriorates into arguments.
Zoran always mocks her on Facebook.
Albania (Erion Hoxha)
Zoran and Erion are sworn enemies, with a rivalry as intense as it gets.
Their arguments are explosive and often escalate to threats or worse.
Erionā€™s boldness matches Zoranā€™s, creating constant friction.
Both are stubborn, and neither will admit fault, fuelling their animosity.
Their interactions are frequently tense and dramatic, filled with insults and challenges.
They avoid each other unless conflict is unavoidable, at which point itā€™s a powder keg waiting to explode.
They mock each other on Facebook and basically every social media they can.
North Macedonia (Zivka Nikolovska)
Zoran and Zivka share a close and affectionate bond. Their friendship is built on mutual understanding and years of shared history.
Zoran sees Zivka as a younger sibling he genuinely cares for. Heā€™s protective of her and enjoys her company, appreciating her easygoing and supportive nature.
They often team up to tease others or share jokes, with Zoran showing his lighter side when heā€™s around her.
They love being silly together.
Greece (Leonidas Kostopoulos)
Zoran and Leonidas are as close as brothers without the blood relation. Their friendship is built on shared values, deep respect, and camaraderie.
They have an easy dynamic, often sharing Rakija and philosophical discussions, ranging from history to war to cute girls, of course Zoran talks only about his dear Milica.
Leonidas is one of the few who can calm Zoran down during his aggressive outbursts, while Zoran admires Leonidasā€™ wisdom and composure.
Their banter is filled with friendly insults and sarcasm, but itā€™s all in good fun. Theyā€™d go to great lengths to help each other.
Bulgaria (Boris Dimitrov)
Zoran and Boris are good friends who share a mutual respect. While they donļæ½ļæ½ļæ½t always see eye-to-eye, they enjoy each otherā€™s company and bond over shared cultural similarities.
Boris appreciates Zoranā€™s boldness, even if itā€™s overwhelming at times, and Zoran likes Borisā€™ straightforward attitude.
They have a relaxed dynamic, often exchanging sarcastic remarks but with no malice.
They can end up fighting sometimes over who is the real best friend of Romania.
Romania (Ecaterina Popescu)
Ecaterina and Zoran are incredibly close, their bond rooted in years of friendship. They understand each otherā€™s quirks and flaws, making their friendship unshakable.
Zoran appreciates Ecaterinaā€™s playful and witty personality, while she enjoys his dark humor and protective nature.
Theyā€™re partners in crime, often causing chaos together. Zoran is fiercely loyal to her and would defend her without hesitation.
Zoran and Ecaterina have a relationship full trust and emotional support.
Turkey (Ɩnder Mumcu)
Zoran and Ɩnder have a strained relationship, with historical conflicts and clashing personalities creating friction.
While they manage to remain civil in certain settings, the underlying tension is palpable. Zoran is openly distrustful of Ɩnder, seeing him as manipulative and overbearing.
Their interactions are filled with subtle or not-so-subtle jabs, with Zoran rarely missing an opportunity to criticize Turkeyā€™s influence.
He always mocks Turkey's relationship with Nazrin.
Azerbaijan (Nazrin Hasanova)
Zoran views Nazrin with skepticism, seeing her as overly loyal to Turkey and unwilling to stand independently.
Their interactions are polite on the surface but laced with tension. Zoranā€™s sarcastic remarks often hint at his true feelings, which Nazrin doesnā€™t appreciate.
Despite the tension, they maintain a thin veneer of civility, though both are quick to snap if provoked.
Cyprus (Androula Christodoulos)
Zoran and Androula share a pleasant, easygoing friendship. They bond over their love of good food, music, and mutual understanding of complex histories.
Androulaā€™s calm and diplomatic nature is a good counterbalance to Zoranā€™s boldness, and she often manages to soothe his more fiery moods.
They are bost best friends of Greece, so they usually meet when Greece wants to hang out.
Armenia (Gevorg Soghomonyan)
Zoran and Gevorg have a good friendship built on mutual respect and shared experiences. Both have faced hardship, and their bond reflects their ability to empathize with one another.
They often enjoy deep conversations about history, culture, and resilience, with a sprinkling of Zoranā€™s dark humor to keep things lively.
Zoran admires Gevorgā€™s strength and determination, while Gevorg finds Zoranā€™s boldness amusing and occasionally inspiring.
Hungary (Istvan Erdei)
Zoran and Istvan are friendly and get along well, despite some cultural differences. Their friendship is filled with playful teasing and sarcastic humor.
Istvan appreciates Zoranā€™s straightforwardness, and Zoran respects Istvanā€™s strength and sense of independence.
Theyā€™re the kind of friends who can share a drink and swap stories, with Zoran occasionally poking fun at Hungaryā€™s history, to which Istvan retorts with sharp wit.
Poland (Anastazja Kowalska) - distant cousin
Zoran and Anastazja have a respectful and amiable friendship. Zoran admires her resilience and finds her eccentric personality amusing.
While they donā€™t always see eye-to-eye, Zoran respects Anastazjaā€™s sense of pride and independence, and she appreciates his intelligence and boldness.
Their conversations are a mix of lighthearted teasing and moments of genuine understanding, creating a solid but casual friendship.
Czechia/Bohemia (MatouÅ” ČernĆ½) - distant cousin
Zoran and MatouÅ” share a mutual appreciation for history, culture, and dark humor. They often bond over intellectual discussions and their shared love for music and art.
MatouÅ” finds Zoranā€™s bold personality entertaining, while Zoran appreciates MatouÅ”ā€™s cleverness and dry wit.
They have an easygoing relationship, often laughing at their shared dark humor while exchanging sarcastic remarks.
Czechia/Moravia (FrantiÅ”ek NovĆ”k) - distant cousin
Zoran and FrantiÅ”ek have a laid-back friendship rooted in cultural exchange and mutual respect. FrantiÅ”ekā€™s practical nature aligns well with Zoranā€™s genius, making them a good team when working on projects or ideas.
Their conversations are a mix of casual banter and discussions about shared interests like sports, music, or science.
Zoran enjoys FrantiÅ”ekā€™s grounded personality and considers him a dependable friend.
Slovakia (Viera LukĆ”ÄovĆ”)
Zoran and Viera have an incredibly close friendship, built on years of camaraderie and mutual understanding.
Viera is one of the few who can keep up with Zoranā€™s bold personality without getting overwhelmed at all.
They share a playful, teasing dynamic, with Viera often calling Zoran out on his antics while he enjoys making her laugh with his sarcastic humor.
Zoran is protective of Viera, treating her like a younger sister. She, in turn, admires his intelligence and bravery, even if she rolls her eyes at his over-the-top moments.
Russia (Yuri Ivanov)
Zoran and Yuri share a deep, almost familial bond. Zoran sees Yuri as a brother figure and respects his strength, resilience, and influence.
Their friendship is a mix of shared history and mutual understanding, as both have endured hardships that shaped them. They often drink together, with Zoran cracking dark jokes and Yuri laughing in his signature calm yet unsettling way.
Zoran feels comfortable being vulnerable around Yuri, trusting him with secrets he wouldnā€™t share with others. Yuri, in turn, values Zoranā€™s loyalty and fiery personality, finding it refreshing.
Theyā€™ll defend each other fiercely, and despite occasional disagreements, their bond remains unbreakable.
Belarus (Tatsiana Romachuk)
Zoran and Tatsiana have a strained relationship, constantly vying for Yuriā€™s attention and approval.
This rivalry fuels a tense dynamic, with both trying to prove who is closer to Russia.
Zoran finds Tatsianaā€™s cold and possessive nature frustrating, often clashing with her in arguments that range from petty to explosive.
Tatsiana, meanwhile, views Zoran as an annoying rival who doesnā€™t understand Yuri the way she does.
Despite their rivalry, they share a grudging respect for each otherā€™s determination and loyalty to Yuri, though neither would admit it.
Austria (Francizka Schwarz)
Zoran and Francizka maintain a tense and bitter relationship, with Zoran holding a grudge against her for events during World War I.
He blames her country for causing pain to Serbia and isnā€™t shy about voicing his disdain.
Their interactions are marked by sarcasm, thinly veiled insults, and occasional heated debates. Francizka, in turn, finds Zoran brash and uncultured, which only fuels his animosity.
Zoran refuses to let go of the past, while Francizka occasionally tries to maintain civility and avoids him most of the time.
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frostdrawz Ā· 4 months ago
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Hereā€™s the full doodle page from today
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Hey MCYTblur how we feeling about that epilogue huh
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cindydacatpink Ā· 3 months ago
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The Anglosphere
- Claire Evangeline šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡ø
- Lola Journee (African American) šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡ø
- Ruby Blondie šŸ‡¬šŸ‡§
- Bella Camila šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦
- Clara Olive šŸ‡¦šŸ‡ŗ
- Billie Amber šŸ‡³šŸ‡æ
The Anglosphere Indigenous:
- Aiyana Tabananica (Native American Indian) (Apache Country) āš«šŸŸ”āšŖšŸ”“
- Jessica Kaiah (First Nation Canada: Blackfoot) šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦
- Darel Gulara (Aboriginal Australian) āš«šŸŸ”šŸ”“
- Amiria Haeatatanga (Maori) āš«āšŖšŸ”“
I was inspired National Hatsune Miku/Brazilian Miku trend lol
Oh, btw...
Today is My birthday. Now I'm 20 years.
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peonycats Ā· 8 months ago
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lullindo/basessilis make this tweet to confirm why they stop making anything related to nation being thing: https://twitter.com/basessilis/status/1763031044067090498
Ahhh yeah that makes sense, this is something I've also realized with time spent in the nation personification fandom- there's a lot you can't do/have to be careful in regards to, esp because these are communities actual people belong to, and what you can and can't do only gets more limited the more popular ur nation personifications become bahaha
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purple-iris Ā· 2 days ago
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Marie Tremblay, Province du QuĆ©bec, in the neoclassical style of De LĆ”szlĆ³
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Details and wip
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The original painting: PHILIP ALEXIUS DE LƁSZLƓ (BUDAPEST 1869-1937 LONDRES) Portrait of CĆ©cile Elizabeth Florence Rankin (1914-1993), Lady Grandy
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tianshiisdead Ā· 2 years ago
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Braids!
I drew these, man, mid 2022? But I don't think I'll ever finish properly and I don't want the to just sit there, so I'll post them now. Korea is the only one finished :')
These are my own nation/culture personification OCs: Korea, Mongolia, Manchu(ria) or Qing, and Japan + China.
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historia-vitae-magistras Ā· 2 years ago
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Hi! Do you happen to still have your headcanons about death? It was one of my favorite posts of yours. Thank you!
I don't have the post but this is a headcanon I think about a lot. I have two versions. The hard reset reboot and the soft reboot. The hard reboot is where the fantasy parts of my universe kick in and the soft reboot is something very much based in reality and biology.
Hard reboot:
This is only possible with the complete destruction of a body. Think getting ground to paste by the force of a glacier or going so far down in a ship wreck the pressure atomizes the body or getting turned into pink mist by artillery. Either the body is completely destroyed or otherwise the damage is unsurvivable. A beheading or certain kinds of spinal injuries for example are impossible to survive under any circumstances. This results in a whole molecular reset. Whatever was now ceases to exist entirely. No remains in the ground, no spare parts. Nothing left but the blood spatters and the echoing scream They are completely remade in a very mysterious process no one quite understands. And the results can be extremely dramatic when they reappear. They may be lacking scars they've had forever or they may reappear later on. Limbs may or may not regrow. Arthur may have lost the Danelaw scar for awhile and it may have popped up again later. Matt might lose some of the scars from the WW1 shrapnel eventually. While I do think that nation's have some built in abilities to cope just being what they are and a lot of trauma fades over time, trauma reactions can be variable and uneven. So while they may reboot and reset, it's still very circumstantial. They might feel better or different afterwards but it's still incredibly disconcerting.
Soft reboot:
The other type I call the 'soft reboot' or the biologically possible one, auto-resuscitation also sometimes called Lazarus syndrome. About half of doctors report seeing a case with their own eyes but data is still quite hard to come by. For most people that it happens too it shows up in their medical records vaguely and the difference between reversed clinical death and auto-resuscitation is not entirely clear to physicians, nurses or patients. But one possible theory is that it is the heart being restarted by pressure of some sort exerted onto the cavities in the chest. This doesn't have a reset. I am not dying today. It's fucking painful. I am not dying today. Coming back is terrifying. One moment the world is dark and cool and the terror of he medical environment is fading and any thoughts echo limply. Life and person hood trickles away but scrambling for a grip, something rolling into a void desperate for traction. No life flashing before the eyes. But Death is there. A sun bleached skeleton, the dried and decaying flowers of a funeral crowning an eyeless skull. Death offer's a hand and the falling is over. I am not dying today.
And then it does go black for a long time but then... life. The bones are a different temperature from the flesh. Every muscle has been strained every fucking direction. Half the ribs are broken because doctor's might have called it. The eyeballs aren't quite in the head right. A death has been declared, paperwork half filled out but the sun is rising, death kisses a bruised, warming cheek and asks, wryly.
"š‘Øš’š’š’•š’‰š’†š’“ š’•š’Šš’Žš’†, š’•š’‰š’†š’?"
There's no magic reboot. The guts are bit rotted from sitting in a corpse for a night. There's a little brain damage but not as nearly as much as there should be. The joints are swollen, every vein in the face and neck and legs are pulling through muscle and flesh like cords through clay, held only inside by skin. Everything that was wrong is still wrong, and a little worse. But the sun is up. The sun is up and the heart still beats and the rest will heal. It has no choice but to heal. Because there is a heartbeat and breathe and the rest can wait.
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