#my asoiaf meta

[eruherdiriel]

Who's getting married at the end of ASoIaF?

Marriage, alliances, and heirs are all tied together in Westeros and are important parts of the nobles' lives. Since A Dream of Spring is never seeing the light of day and The Winds of Winter is a big fat probably not "we'll see," I will go to my grave haunted by this question. So I decided to reason it out. My Jonsa brain wants it to be them but that seems potentially too "happy." But who else could it be?

George made the comment in May 2016.

Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters. Of course along the way I made up a lot of minor characters, you know.

I've decided to look at living POV characters, except for the one-offs, some as individuals and some as couples. Many POV characters are not "major characters" in my eyes and there are some non-POV characters who are more important, but this was the most objective way I could find to decide who made the list. POV characters are bolded in blue.

I initially read George's comment as meaning two mains are getting married, but as I wrote this, I second guessed myself and thought maybe he meant a main character and someone else. But since marriage is transactional and important to the highborn characters in this story, most of them will get married eventually (unless they die or join a celibate order), which brought me back around to thinking GRRM did mean the marriage would be between two key characters. And it would be relevant to the plot, and not mentioned as an afterthought in an epilogue or family tree. Otherwise, why call it out? With that in mind, let's begin.

Sansa and Tyrion are already married, but GRRM spoke in the future tense so he wasn't referring to an existing marriage. The relationship was unconsummated, their stories have diverged, and they are headed for an annulment. I can't see anyone we know ending up with Tyrion. His plotlines with women have involved prostitution, assault, unfulfilled desire, and violent anger. He seems more likely to kill another partner than marry again. More on Sansa later.

Bran is a possibility plot wise, but who would he marry? Meera is significantly older when they meet in the books, so I don't think that match is realistic in this context. And if Bran is the Summer King, he will likely have to marry a southerner for political reasons (unless there is a new succession plan and/or he can't have children). So it's probably someone we don't know yet or has been mentioned in passing. The last book would also need a time jump to make Bran of marriageable age, or the last two books would need to cover much more time than the previous five.

Arya's arc isn't about who she marries. In fact, she tells us whose plot is about marriage.

“You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.” Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." (A Game of Thrones - Eddard V)

But if further convincing is needed that Arya's storyline isn't about marriage, know that a search for "Arya" and "marriage" or "marry" in the books mostly returns results for Sansa talking about marrying Joffrey and then talking about Arya, lol. There's a few other contexts, particularly with fArya, but this one jumped out at me:

Robb was to marry one of their aunts, and Arya one of their uncles. "She never will," Bran said, "not Arya," but Maester Luwin was unyielding, so there they were beside Rickon. (A Clash of Kings - Bran III)

She's not going to be old enough at the end of the series anyway, unless there's a time jump. Next.

Arianne and Aegon/Young Griff: This seems like one of the most possible impending marriages to me, no matter who the Young Griff is in truth. A strategic Dorne marriage is plot relevant and makes sense with Arianne's arc. However, I think it is possible the Young Griff dies before the end of the story. He also doesn't qualify under my slightly arbitrary logic for who a major character is. And Arianne barely qualifies.

Daenerys is dying. Take it up with George. Though technically still married to Hizdahr zo Loraq, maybe she marries a Greyjoy (Victarion or Euron) before she dies, but it won't be relevant long term. Next.

Cersei and Jaime are doomed, as a couple (not that they can marry anyway, as much as they have wished to) and probably individually. Cersei is also vehemently against getting married again, and there's no more Tywin to force her.

Aeron Greyjoy: Can Drowned God priests get married? Doesn't matter. It's not him.

Areo Hotah has two chapters and only made this list because I checked ASoIaF wiki for POV characters to make sure I got everyone with more than one, lol. No weddings to see here.

Asha Greyjoy is sort of married already? Perhaps she gets out of it and later marries a Northerner to ease relations between the North and Iron Islands. A non-POV character likely, but maybe Jon??? Huh. It's not the least or most possible thing here. Not what I expected coming into this.

Brienne: Like Arya, marriage isn't the point of her narrative. It could become important for her to marry in the aftermath of all the wars. But for major characters as her suitor, there's none that make sense. Her interactions with Jaime serve to humanize him and complicate her, but they're not ending up together, even if Jaime ends up alive.

Theon's not getting married if he lives.

Sam is a member of the Night's Watch and technically can't marry. Maybe he gets released from his vows or there is no NW in the end and he is free to marry ... Gilly? Some rando in the Reach? Even if he's not in the Night's Watch, there's that whole maester thing that should prevent him from having a wife.

Davos is already married. Next.

Barristan Selmy is old and a long-serving member of a celibate order.

Jon Connington will be more focused on getting his "son" a match.

And we are back to Sansa. I won't go through all the potential suitors for her. See this brilliant post for that. Given Sansa's narrative themes and that she is headed for a leadership position, a good match for her will be extremely important. She has also been involved in too many marriage plots for one to not work out and be relevant to the larger story.

Jon and Sansa are undoubtedly two of the major characters of the series. Marriage and children are referenced explicitly and implicitly throughout the books for both of them, and they are two of the most romantic characters.

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. (A Storm of Swords - Jon XII)

Implication of bold text = he dreamed of it before, and here he is doing it again. Notice also that he's thinking less of Val specifically and more of what a marriage would give him access to. Sansa does something similar when thinking about Willas.

If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa's dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya. (A Storm of Swords - Sansa II)

(The parallel content of these passages is ... a lot. One sentence for finding love with Val/Willas, then multiple sentences [three for Jon, four for Sansa] about children. The opening sentences are flipped in order [purple and pink text], and there's the shared idea of dreams [in red] and wanting to name their children for people they've lost [orange].)

Who knows how much time the final two books cover, but Jon and Sansa are both of marriageable age by Westeros/George's standards and will be more so by the end of the series, with a much more appropriate age gap between them than a lot of other possibilities. A union between them makes sense, since Jon would get to become a Stark, something he has always wanted, thought not in the way he dreamt might happen. Sansa would get her true knight, though he is imperfect and not the fantasy version she imagined when younger. It solidifies Stark power in the North. The last book was originally A Time for Wolves, after all.

The questions it leaves though are when does this happen? What does Jon's punishment or social status look like if he plays a role in Daenerys's death (for kinslaying and potentially queenslaying)? Is forsaking the Targ name and kneeling to Bran enough, or does he have to serve an exile period? (Am I letting the show influence me too much with these questions?) Can he acknowledge any children he has, or does that get in the way of the Targ line coming to an end, even if the children are Starks (or Snows)?

The final possibility is George changed his mind since that comment. The garden grew in a different direction. This feels hollow and unfulfilling, especially if you take the view that GRRM is deconstructing tropes so he can reconstruct them. There has to be a hopeful marriage/romance after everything else. And marriage is a big enough point in the books for there to be at least one that helps wrap up the story.

Summary of potential matches between two named characters (does not meet full criteria):

Arianne and Aegon/fAegon

Sam and Gilly

And between POV characters (meets full criteria):

Asha and Jon? (Once again, huh.)

Sansa and Jon

But since Sansa is the character I am most confident in having a plot-relevant marriage, Jon x Sansa wins.

This was not rigged, I swear.

[winterprince601]

the best thing about jon and sam's friendship is that aside from their core shared identity of being alienated within a classist patriarchal society, they have Nothing in common. sam spends the whole first jon chapter of acok nerding out over the sociopolitical signifance of a bunch of old maps and jon's response is "litcherally why does it matter as long as the rivers are in the same place, you sweet fool" they're like the medieval equivalent of nerd who likes lotr and jock who likes evanescence forming a deep affection on the basis of no one else understanding them.

[ariavar]

Honestly, one of my favorite things about GRRM's writing in asoiaf is how it turns the reader's bloodthirstiness against them.

Take Theon in ACOK, you are cheering in his final chapter because finally! Just desserts for that arrogant foolish bastard!

You read how the Bolton's have him captured in ASOS and say "Heh, good riddance".

And then... you read Reek chapters and with growing horror, you realize who is the person narrating. And suddenly, this need for payback, for him to face justice, doesn't feel that righteous anymore. No person should go through this.

The same goes for Cersei, her blaze of cruelty and scheming catches up to her when the sparrows imprison her. FINALLY, justice! and... you can only stare in horror and disgust at the walk of atonement scene. There is no vindication to be found here.

[franzkafkagf]

do NOT think about jaehaera targaryen that shit will kill you.

do NOT think about how this little girl saw her twin being murdered, saw her mother fall deeper and deeper into depression. how this little girl saw her father rage and drink and then burn and fall from the sky.

do NOT think about how she didn’t see him for so long while he was recovering. how she, maelor and aegon ran from king’s landing, how scary that must’ve been.

do NOT think about how scared and alone jaehaera must‘ve felt like the entire war. not knowing who in her family lived and who didn’t maybe it would‘ve been better not to know.

do NOT think about how jaehaera and aegon met up again in king’s landing. how she probably didn’t recognize him. how she learned her brother and mother and uncles were dead.

do NOT think about how she must‘ve felt like after aegon was poisoned. how her grandmother asked her to slit another child‘s throat. do not think about her marriage. do not think about how she fell and what came after.

[ladystoneboobs]

the younger starklings about robb (robb the strong and brave big brother, the perfect heir, the fierce and unbeatable young wolf):

arya

bran

sansa

meanwhile, actual robb (robb the lord and then robb the kitn):

before arya ever promised to be strong by using robb as her benchmark, the definition of stark strength, ned had to remind robb to be strong as the ruling stark in winterfell. (strong for bran and rickon, the brothers he thought he failed by sending their would-be killer away, leading to his great moment of weakness in jeyne westerling's bed.) as his siblings' faith in his ultimate triumph held strong, even after the loss of the north, robb himself was struggling with despair.

as grenn once told sam, maybe everyone is just pretending to be brave, maybe that's how people become brave. robb was faking it to make it too, imitating his father's lordly attitude as bran later tried to imitate robb's. as his younger siblings remembered him as their shining example, robb was trying to live up to his father's example. not the ned who'd been in his circumstances, a teenager unexpectedly turned into a lord and fighting a war to save his family. no, ofc, he never knew that young ned. the ned he knew as his father, the standard to measure himself against, was an adult man in his mid-30s who'd ruled the north for ~15 years. but was that standard for a 15/16yo any more fair and valid an expectation than 8/9yo bran believing he was almost a man grown and holding himself to the standard of 15/16yo robb as robb's heir?

and the only person left close enough to see robb as the boy he still was died with him.

[rainhadaenerys]

From time to time, I see some people argue that Dany can't be Azor Ahai because Azor Ahai was a man who killed his wife and such a character can't be considered a hero. So Dany couldn't be Azor Ahai because she is a hero and because such a feminist character like Dany can't be associated with Azor Ahai.

I agree that Dany is a hero, and I agree that Azor Ahai killing his wife is not the most feminist story. But I disagree with the idea that this means Dany isn't Azor Ahai, because literally all the foreshadowing points to her, she fulfills every aspect of the prophecy. Just because we as readers might think there's a moral dissonance in Dany being Azor Ahai, doesn't mean that she isn't. Whether we as readers might not like her being Azor Ahai, whether we think it's not feminist for Dany to be Azor Ahai, it doesn't change the fact that GRRM wrote all the clues pointing to her.

Also, while some people may argue that it's not feminist for Dany to be Azor Ahai because the original Azor Ahai killed his wife, other people might argue that Dany being Azor Ahai is a feminist subversion, because everybody expects the prophesied hero to be a man.

[book-daenerys]

A list of Daenerys Targaryen's positive moments

i.e., scenes that highlight her kindness and/or compassion.

Ordered Jhogo and Quaro not to harm or kill Viserys (AGOT Dany III)

Begged Jorah not to tell Viserys he was being mocked by the Dothraki (AGOT Dany IV)

Pleaded with Khal Drogo (going so far as to use the "pillow tricks" Doreah taught her) to allow Viserys to rejoin them at the head of the column (AGOT Dany IV)

Asked Viserys not to call the Dothraki "savages" (AGOT Dany IV)

Prepared a meal and gifts (including fine clothing and a cloak) to Viserys to help him look more regal and earn the respect of the Dothraki (AGOT Dany IV)

Calmed Doreah with a touch and defended her from Viserys (AGOT Dany IV)

Asked Jorah to stop a drunk Viserys from provoking the Dothraki (AGOT Dany V)

Offered Viserys her dragon eggs and a seat beside her as long as he dropped the sword (AGOT Dany V)

Took on the task of translating Viserys's demands to Drogo to spare Jhiqui from harsh punishment (AGOT Dany V)

Purchased a fertility charm for Doreah and sought gifts for Irri and Jhiqui (AGOT Dany VI)

Found a stall selling sausages made with garlic and hot peppers and offered them to her handmaids and the men of her khas (AGOT Dany VI)

Took the Lhazareen women under her protection to shield them from sexual violence (AGOT Dany VII) (as George R. R. Martin puts it, "In the village of Lhazarene, Dany is appalled by the rape and slaughter that she’s seeing. […] Dany can’t enact the idea of “don’t take slaves”, but what she does there is saying “I’ll take the slaves. I’m the queen, all the slaves belong to me.” and in that way she can extend some protection over the women who were being raped.")

Ordered Qotho and others not to harm Mirri (AGOT Dany VII, AGOT Dany VIII)

Was determined to die for Drogo if necessary (AGOT Dany VIII)

Freed Drogo's slaves and offered them the choice to leave or join her khalasar as equals - "I see the faces of slaves. I free you. Take off your collars. Go if you wish, no one shall harm you. If you stay, it will be as brothers and sisters, husbands and wives. [...] To each of you I say, give me your hands and your hearts, and there will always be a place for you." (AGOT Dany X)

Resolved to be a source of strength for her people, suppressing her own fears and embracing her role as Drogo’s queen (ACOK Dany I)

Went without food and drink with the rest of her people while they crossed the Red Waste, refusing any special treatment for herself (ACOK Dany I)

Cared for Doreah as she succumbed to fever, providing her water, comfort, and support until she died, before allowing the khalasar to continue their journey (ACOK Dany I)

Ensured her people's basic needs for food and water were met in Vaes Tolorro (ACOK Dany I)

Tasked Rakharo and a group of men with pulling up the plaza in Vaes Tolorro to make the land fertile (ACOK Dany I)

Ordered Aggo to repair the gates of Vaes Tolorro to make sure she and her people were prepared for any potential threats (ACOK Dany I)

Tended Jorah's wound herself (ACOK Dany I)

Wanted to restore Jorah's home and honor (ACOK Dany I)

Wants to avoid destroying King's Landing, rule with compassion and create a beautiful, joyful kingdom where her people can thrive and welcome her as their queen (ACOK Dany II)

Acknowledged the need to train her growing dragons to avoid destruction (ACOK Dany III)

Diffused tension between Ser Jorah and Arstan by gently intervening and telling Jorah that no offense from Arstan's part was intended (ASOS Dany I)

Believes that "a queen must listen to all, the highborn and the low, the strong and the weak, the noble and the venal", that "a queen should hear all sides before reaching a decision" and that "a queen must listen to her people" (ASOS Dany I, ASOS Dany II, ADWD Dany VI)

Is horrified and visibly shaken by the brutal training methods of the Unsullied, especially the requirement to kill infants (ASOS Dany II)

Invited Arstan to join her in her litter, concerned for his well-being in the intense heat (ASOS Dany II)

Apologized to Irri for Drogon biting her hand and gently kissed the spot where Drogon left his marks (ASOS Dany II)

Is willing to kill her enemies, but refuses to harm innocents (ASOS Dany II)

Believes that kings and queens are meant to protect the vulnerable and deliver justice (ASOS Dany III)

Freed Missandei, eight thousand Unsullied, all the slave boys in training and all the other slaves in Astapor (ASOS Dany III)

Killed the slavers of Astapor and spared all children under twelve (ASOS Dany III)

Abolished the practice of giving the Unsullied new slave names every day, allowing them to return to their birth names or choose new ones (ASOS Dany IV)

Allowed the Unsullied to choose their officers (ASOS Dany IV)

Allowed all the freedmen to join her, even though they were a burden and couldn't fight, out of a sense of moral obligation (ASOS Dany IV)

Attacked the Yunkish slavers when they least expected it at night to spare the former slaves from heavy casualties (and it works: only about a dozen were killed) (ASOS Dany IV)

Was merciful to the Yunkish slavers and left Yunkai untouched (ASOS Dany IV)

Freed the slaves of Yunkai (ASOS Dany IV)

Offered mercy to sellswords or slaves who pledged loyalty to her (ASOS Dany IV)

Decided to conquer Meereen to secure food for her people and prevent them from starving along the march (ASOS Dany V)

Sent for a healer to ensure Strong Belwas's wound was properly cared for before proceeding with her council (ASOS Dany V)

Refused to risk the lives of her Unsullied in an attack on Meereen's gates where the Meereenese could use boiling oil to kill them (ASOS Dany V)

Engaged with the freedmen, allowing them to touch her for encouragement, listening to their requests, and even stopping to speak with a pregnant woman seeking her blessing for her child’s name (ASOS Dany V)

Ended slavery in Meereen (ASOS Dany VI)

Promised to take Missandei home someday (ASOS Dany VI)

Crucified 163 slavers in response to the slavers' crucifixion of 163 slave children (ASOS Dany VI) (some would disagree that this was a positive moment, but I believe it was because, in this feudal setting, it's uncommon for monarchs or nobles to care about commoners, let alone take action against those who mistreat them, so it does showcase her compassion towards the slave children. Also, Dany's real mistake was not killing enough slavers to neutralize their power to retaliate)

Hung murderers, amputated the hands of looters, and castrated rapists (ASOS Dany VI)

Rejected the luxurious harpy throne in favor of a simple ebony bench (ASOS Dany VI)

Forbade men to sell their wives and children, ensuring no one is forced into slavery (ASOS Dany VI)

Forgave Ser Barristan and spared Jorah's life despite his betrayal (ASOS Dany VI)

Decided to stay in Meereen and rule as its queen to protect the freedmen and prevent the city from falling back into chaos or slavery (ASOS Dany VI)

Took it upon herself to wake up in the middle of the night and personally see the body of Stalwart Shield, the first of her soldiers murdered by the Sons of the Harpy (ADWD Dany I)

Honored Stalwart Shield by closing his eyes, giving him a proper burial, vowing that he wouldn't be forgotten and naming a company of freedmen after him (ADWD Dany I, ADWD Dany II)

Had the Unsullied walk in pairs at night, then eventually ordered them to stop patrolling the streets of Meereen to prevent further assassinations (ADWD Dany I, ADWD Dany II)

Rejected Skahaz's suggestion to punish noble families indiscriminately and instead increased the reward for information about the Sons of the Harpy to a thousand honors (ADWD Dany I)

Was merciful to Reznak despite her suspicion that he might be one of the betrayers Quaithe warned her about because she acknowledges the treacherous nature of prophecies (ADWD Dany I, ADWD Dany II)

Sent her small khalasar, led by her bloodriders, to free slaves in the hinterlands and secure crops for Meereen’s market (ADWD Dany I, ADWD Dany V)

Sent Daario to negotiate with Lhazar, leading to an alliance that brought food and trade to Meereen (ADWD Dany I, ADWD Dany V)

Wanted to win the Meereenese nobility to bring peace to the city (ADWD Dany I)

Agreed to wear the tokar to be accepted as Meereen's queen, despite her initial desire to ban it (ADWD Dany I)

Didn't force the Meereenese to adopt her language, instead learned theirs and spoke to them in their own tongue, while also allowing them to continue using their language freely (ADWD Dany as a whole)

Refused to grant the slaver Grazdan any compensation from the freed weavers and instead ordered him to give the freed weavers a new loom for forgetting the name of the old slave woman who taught them (ADWD Dany I)

Ensured fairness by alternating between summoning former masters and freedmen for their petitions (ADWD Dany I)

Spared the life of a noble boy who tried to attack her after she denied his request for justice due to her pardon for crimes during Meereen's sack (ADWD Dany I)

Made a point of personally listening to the petitioners instead of delegating the responsibility to her advisors (ADWD Dany as a whole)

Dismissed Reznak's suggestion to scourge those who come to her with complaints about her dragons, saying that "no man should ever fear to come to me" and thinking many of the claims must be genuine (ADWD Dany I)

Paid the claimants for their lost animals, but required them to swear an oath at the Temple of the Graces in the future to ensure the validity of their claims (ADWD Dany I)

Locked Rhaegal and Viserion after Drogon ate Hazzea (ADWD Dany II)

Rejected Skahaz's advice to execute Hazzea's father or to rip out his tongue (ADWD Dany II)

Chose to pay the blood price for the death of Hazzea, offering the father a compensation and memorial while asking him never to tell what happened to anyone (ADWD Dany II)

Comforted Missandei after her brother died by inviting her to share her bed, offering to send Missandei home to Naath and expressing her desire to keep her safe (ADWD Dany II)

Balanced the demands of the craftsmen's guilds with the needs of the freedmen, deciding to allow only guild members to claim titles of journeyman or master, while ensuring the guilds accept skilled freedmen into their ranks (ADWD Dany II)

Replanted olive trees (ADWD Dany III)

Vowed to be the calamity that transforms the slavers back into people (ADWD Dany III)

Proposed a trade deal with Xaro, offering Meereen's salt and wine (ADWD Dany III)

Ordered the construction of a ditch to bring water to the fields for planting beans (ADWD Dany III)

Rejected Xaro's comparison between slavery and rain and passionately defended her belief that no one wants to be owned (ADWD Dany III)

Spared Ghael's life even after he spat in her face (ADWD Dany III)

Hugged and kissed Mezzara, one of her young hostages, to thank her for bringing her morning meal (ADWD Dany III)

Assembled a diverse council that included both nobles and freedmen, ensuring the latter held important roles in both her administration and her army (ADWD Dany III)

Refused Xaro’s offer to leave Meereen in exchange for ships (ADWD Dany III)

Chose not to kill her child hostages even after the Sons of the Harpy continued to murder freedmen at night despite Skahaz's protests (ADWD Dany IV)

Said she "would sooner perish fighting than return my children to bondage" (ADWD Dany IV)

Thinks she owes it to the freedmen who perished (Stalwart Shield, Mossador, Rylona Rhee) to marry in order to end the slaughter in Meereen (ADWD Dany IV)

Agreed to marry Hizdahr if he gave her ninety days without killings in Meereen and eventually fulfilled her promise (ADWD Dany IV, ADWD Dany VII)

Believes that "a queen belongs not to herself, but to her people" and "the realm" (ADWD Dany IV, ADWD Dany V, ADWD Dany IX)

Rejected Daario's suggestion to kill all the Great Masters during a wedding (ADWD Dany IV)

Rejected Groleo's suggestion to use her dragons against the Yunkish (ADWD Dany V)

Supports agriculture in Meereen by planting beans, grapes and wheat (ADWD Dany V)

Forbade Skahaz from torturing Hizdahr after realizing that torture doesn't bring reliable results (ADWD Dany V)

Rejected Skahaz's suggestion to seize the kin of ruling families in Meereen, choosing instead to trust Hizdahr and hope for peace (ADWD Dany V)

Ordered food to be brought to the first Astapori refugees who came to Meereen (ADWD Dany V)

Refused Ben Plumm's advice to use her dragons in battle (ADWD Dany V)

Corrected Ben by emphasizing that the people she feels responsible for are not mere "bad apples," but human beings who are sick, hungry, and afraid, seeing them as her children (ADWD Dany V)

Set up a camp and sent food and medical care for the Astapori refugees sick and dying of the bloody flux (ADWD Dany V, ADWD Dany VI)

Insisted on personally delivering food to the Astapori refugees, despite the risks, to show solidarity with her people and understand their suffering firsthand - "I will not turn away from them. A queen must know the sufferings of her people" (ADWD Dany VI)

Knelt beside an old man and bathed him on her own initiative (ADWD Dany VI)

Shamed her followers into helping her prepare and burn the dead, organizing the effort and working alongside them (ADWD Dany VI)

Allowed Grey Worm and the Unsullied to bathe in the salt sea after their work, respecting their faith and privacy regarding the true name of their goddess. (ADWD Dany VI)

Believes that "a queen loves where she must, not where she will" (ADWD Dany VII)

Ordered Daario to treat Quentyn with courtesy (ADWD Dany VII)

Refused Quentyn’s marriage offer because she didn’t want to abandon her people (ADWD Dany VII)

Ended her affair with Daario after marrying Hizdahr (ADWD Dany VII)

Reassured Quentyn when he was scared of her dragons, expressing understanding rather than mocking him for his fear (ADWD Dany VIII)

Warned Quentyn to leave her court for his own safety (ADWD Dany VIII)

Insisted that the leftover food from the feast was given to the poor (ADWD Dany VIII)

Remembers the people she lost (Doreah, Quaro, Eroeh, Hazzea) in an attempt to accept the deaths in the fighting pits as a necessary price for peace and to avoid greater bloodshed (ADWD Dany VIII)

Ensured that a collapsed palanquin bearer was moved off the street and provided with food and water (ADWD Dany IX)

Forbade children to participate in the combats at Daznak's Pit (ADWD Dany IX)

Refused to allow thieves or debtors to be sentenced to fight in the pits, only murderers, rapists and slavers (ADWD Dany IX)

Ensured only free men who chose to fight would be allowed in the arena (ADWD Dany IX)

Stopped Hizdahr's plan to have dwarfs (unbeknownst to her, Tyrion and Penny) fight three lions in the pits (ADWD Dany IX)

Flew Drogon away from Meereen and prevented further harm to her people (ADWD Dany IX)

Bonus: On the ADWD cover for Brazil, I [Marc Simonetti] put Daenerys at the top of the stairs of the Meereenese pyramid. I had undoubtedly been, unconsciously, influenced by the series. And George [R. R. Martin] told me that Daenerys wants equality for everyone, she wants to be at the same level as her people, so I had her climb down to keep it consistent.

[bidonicart]

Lyanna Stark and ser Gerold Hightower at the Tower of Joy.

A scenario conceived by @seaworthit, scripted by @nobodysuspectsthebutterfly and adapted into a comic by me.

where else to find me

[amber-laughs]

“She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything.” - Storm of Swords Jon XII

to

“He was better than me at everything.
Fighting and hunting and riding and girls.
Gods, the girls loved him.
I wanted to hate him, but I never could.” - Game of Thrones S4 E1

bothers me so bad. the robb/jon dynamic was butchered in a million ways but my least favorite was this. jon isn’t jealous because robb is better than him, jon is jealous bc he is better, or at least equal, but it will never matter because of his birth.

and this isn’t me sucking jon’s dick. i love this for robb’s development. he is so obviously insecure about being lord/king. imagine him wondering if people around him are disappointed that it’s him instead of his bastard brother. wondering if his father would have prefered jon. wondering if his mother wants jon gone because she doesn’t believe the lords will accept him if jon is standing next to him. wondering if maybe he wants jon gone too. both of them being wrapped up in insecurity and loving each other through it. GODDAMIT they could’ve done so much with that relationship but instead they cut and cut until viewers forgot they even knew each other

[blue-mint-winter]

About Alyssa Targaryen

Alyssa Targaryen, daughter of Jaehaerys and Alysanne and mother of king Viserys I and Daemon the Rogue Prince, is a character recently talked about due to her brief appearance in the TV show. The fan opinions about her seem strangely very positive. She's seen as a cool character and a good mother to her sons, because she took them dragonriding soon after giving birth. In relation to her younger sisters Alyssa is also seen as the better one or lucky for having a happy marriage with her brother and avoiding a more tragic fate. Certainly she's regarded as the most successful among the daughters of Alysanne because her descendants continued the dynasty. I've seen opinions that Jaehaerys and Alysanne only failed as parents to their younger children (from Daella and younger), who caused many problems, but they raised the older ones - Aemon, Baelon, Alyssa, Maegelle and Vaegon - to become good and decent people. There are also voices that she's just another dead mother, her character is uninteresting/unimportant compared to other sisters and she only exists in the story to have sex and birth future main characters.

After I read about Alyssa in Fire and Blood I found that all of the above opinions feel distinctly off the mark, especially in regards to her good character. Alyssa came off to me as rather unpleasant, mean and obssessed with sex, however the in-universe book's author, maester Gyldayn, doesn't portray any of her bad qualities as bad or undesirable in a princess, while at the same time he's very critical of her sisters' displaying similar faults.

Instead Gyldayn's portrayal of Alyssa focuses on showing her as a good sisterwife to Baelon and mother to Viserys and Daemon. That's what maester Gyldayn and Jaehaerys' propaganda want the readers to think about Alyssa while at the same time telling them that she was the most unfeminine woman she could be. That creates a powerful dissonance while reading about her as compared to others.

This post will be an analysis of Alyssa, her role in the family built on incest and how it affected her and her siblings, her relationships with focus on Baelon and Vaegon, her behaviour and causes of it, her effect on her siblings before and after her death. There will be some extrapolation and theorizing, but I hope it's within reason and will make a coherent argument that Alyssa wasn't like what Gyldayn presents her or what many fans think she was. So buckle up, this will be a long one.

Alyssa's role in the family

Alyssa is the second daughter, but she was born after Daenerys died (in the end of the same year, 60 AC), so functionally she's the eldest daughter, but the shadow of Daenerys hangs over her. Alyssa was her replacement in her mother's eyes until Alysanne realized when Alyssa was 6 years old that she didn't take after Daenerys, but Baelon. From a young age Alyssa preferred boy activities and didn't want to spend time with other girls.

The princess did not act like a girl, however. She wore boy’s clothes when she could, shunned the company of other girls, preferred riding and climbing and dueling with wooden swords to sewing and reading and singing, and refused to eat porridge.

One fundamental, glaring difference between young Daenerys and Alyssa was exactly the type of sibling dynamic they had with Aemon and Baelon. Daenerys was their older sister, a little queen and she was bossing them around.

The young princes loved their sister to distraction, it was plain to see, and Daenerys delighted in the boys, “especially in telling them what to do.” 

Alyssa was the younger sister who was seeking her big brother's attention. She trailed after Baelon and, as it turns out later, she never really stopped.

Just as Baelon had once followed Aemon everywhere, Alyssa trailed after Baelon. “Like a puppy,” the Spring Prince complained. Baelon was two years younger than Aemon, Alyssa nearly four years younger than him…“and a girl,” which made it far worse in his eyes. 

At this point in their lives she was just an annoying younger sister to Baelon.

Daenerys was a leader of her brothers, Alyssa - their follower. Even in the role of the older sister Alyssa was nothing like Daenerys. She wasn't a leader to her own younger siblings, instead she spurned them and stayed distant from them. It's also mentioned 3 times in the book that Daenerys told her pregnant mother that she wanted a younger sister. Alyssa reacted in an opposite way to Deanerys - she didn't want anything to do with her younger sister Maegelle and refused her company.

A gentle, selfless, and sweet-natured girl, and exceedingly bright, she soon attached herself to her sister Alyssa in much the same way that Prince Baelon had attached himself to Prince Aemon, though not entirely as happily. Now it was Alyssa’s turn to bristle at having “the baby” clinging to her skirts. She evaded her as best she could, and Baelon laughed at her fury.

Alyssa's shunning of other girls and having interest in boys' activities sets her apart from her sister. Maybe it was a result of young Alyssa wanting to be different in her mother's eyes than the dead sister she never knew. Probably she just wanted to spend time playing with her brothers so she emulated them. Also, she could have noticed their close bond to their father and tried to earn his love and approval by being like them. It is noticeable that, after losing Daenerys, Jaehaerys was less involved with raising his new children.

On the surface level, it's assumed that Alyssa is just another Arya-type, but I think she has a lot more in common with Cersei in her characteristics and relationships, even though her physical description (mismatched eyes - violet and green, crooked nose after an injury) is reminiscent of Tyrion. Perhaps Alyssa's description is meant to highlight that she's Lannister-coded.

Does the parallel between Alyssa and Cersei foreshadow a similar contrast between Cersei and Daenerys Stormborn in the future books? Perhaps Daenerys will be bossing around both Jaime and Tyrion like her namesake did with Aemon and Baelon.

Alysanne and Jaehaerys announced the betrothals of their older children in 68 AC. That's when it was decided that Alyssa will not take Daenerys' place as Aemon's wife. Instead, Alysanne planned to recreate her own relationship with Jaehaerys by deciding to marry their second son to second/eldest living daughter.

“Alyssa is for Baelon,” she declared. “She has been following him around since she could walk. They are as close as you and I were at their age.”

So a 7 year old Alyssa is told by her mother that she will marry Baelon, her favourite brother, that she's meant for him. That sounds similar to Cersei's belief how she was one with Jaime, that they belonged to each other. Cersei also switched with Jaime, pretending to be him to go to swordplay lessons. Only difference is that Alyssa was encouraged to pursue a romantic relationship with her brother, while Cersei was separated from Jaime and had to keep the affair secret. Alyssa was raised to be her brother's sisterwife and giving him children was the only expectation placed on her by her parents.

The Vaegon Incident

Another similarity between Alyssa and Cersei is that they tormented their little brothers. When I read about the incident with Alyssa pouring wine on Vaegon, I thought it was rather mean and too much. He only said something insensitive to Daella. But one incident of Alyssa being mean can be excused because she defended their younger sister. On the other hand, when she tomented him again, I had to take notice:

One day, mayhaps in an attempt to spur Vaegon into making more of an effort, he brought his sister Alyssa to the yard, shining in man’s mail. The princess had not forgotten the incident of the Arbor gold. Laughing and shouting mockery, she danced around her little brother and humiliated him half a hundred times, whilst Princess Daella looked down from a window. Shamed beyond endurance, Vaegon threw down his sword and ran from the yard, never to return.

Alyssa was 14 and Vaegon was 11. He was training with Baelon for a year at the insistence of their father. The maester claims that Alyssa humiliated Vaegon so badly because of something he'd said a year ago and she'd already punished him for? Either it's true and Alyssa holds grudges like Cersei or... she just hated Vaegon. And I think it wasn't really because of Daella.

Let's rewind to the pouring wine on Vaegon incident.

“I would never marry her,” the boy said, in front of half the court. “She can barely read. She should find some lord in need of stupid children, for that’s the only sort he will ever have of her.” Princess Daella, as might be expected, burst into tears and fled the hall, with her mother, the queen, rushing after her. It fell to her sister Alyssa, at thirteen three years Vaegon’s elder, to pour a flagon of wine over his head. Even that did not make the prince repent. “You are wasting Arbor gold,” was all he said before stalking from the hall to change his clothing.

Notice that Alyssa pours wine on him, but she doesn't say anything like "this is for Daella" or "how could you say that to her". It's only maester Gyldayn's conjecture that she was defending her sister (in his efforts to paint Alyssa as the good one among her sisters and completely unlike the simple-minded, promiscous or vain and ambitious ones). Alyssa and Daella weren't close, Alyssa had no interest in hanging out with her sisters and Daella was scared of her.

Her sister Maegelle became her guiding star, and she worshipped her mother, the queen, but her sister Alyssa seemed to terrify her.

To further prove that the close sibling bond between Alyssa and Daella just didn't exist and was entirely imagined by Gyldayn, let's move on to later years. Daella died in childbirth in 82 AC, I wonder what was Alyssa's take on that if she was such a sister protector and she had her own dragon? Rhaena flew on Dreamfyre and threatened Rogar when her mother, Alyssa Velaryon, died in childbirth and that woman robbed her of the crown. There was a huge rift between Rhaena and her mother for many years and she still came to her mother's deathbed and was deeply affected by her loss. I don't hear anything about Alyssa taking Meleys to the Vale to avenge Daella. Most probably she didn't care that much about Daella. Notice how we never hear anything about her ever interacting with her sisters except that she didn't like Maegelle trailing after her when they were little. Even the so-called defense of Daella happens without Daella being present. Was it really about her at all or was Alyssa just dunking on Vaegon because she had a good pretext? I think the answer is obvious.

If defending Daella wasn't the motivation for the first Vaegon incident then what could have caused Alyssa to lash out at him?

I think it was because Vaegon rebelled against the sibling marriage that was forced on him by their parents.

“Be sweet to your little sister,” King Jaehaerys told the prince when he was five. “One day she will be your Alysanne.”

So Vaegon was told that he's meant for Daella, just like Alyssa is meant for Baelon, but unlike Alyssa, he protested the match and he made sure that everyone knew about it. Gyldayn did say that Vaegon was no coward. It was certainly brave of the boy to defy their parents' will in a public setting. Alyssa never did anything like that. To be fair, Gyldayn never mentioned what was Alyssa's reaction to her betrothal to Baelon. As a child, she might not have understood what it really meant and just agreed. He was her favourite brother after all. In Vaegon's case things were different as he and Daella disliked each other. On Baelon's side of things, he was too dutiful to Alysanne to refuse the match.

At the time of the first Vaegon incident Alyssa is 13, she's older and she understands more about what marriage to Baelon means for her. Maybe she wishes she protested it when she had a chance and now it's too late and she's jealous that Vaegon got to refuse Daella. Maybe she's already so indoctrinated into believing sibling incest is their destiny as Targaryens that she wants to "correct" Vaegon for rebelling against their entire system of belief. What's worse, he wasn't punished for his defiance and forced to marry Daella anyway, but instead he got his way. Alysanne listened to him and convinced Jaehaerys to search for a different, unrelated bride for Vaegon. And Alyssa probably knew that Alysanne was never going to call off the marriage to Baelon.

What's interesting is that first Vaegon incident happens same year that Baelon is knighted, receives Dark Sister and claims Vhagar. Baelon gets the holy insignia and is the new Visenya of his generation. Baelon, not Alyssa, the tomboy who likes swordfighting, who is a Targaryen, a future sisterwife raised on the story of the Conquest. Even if it's not outright said in the text, Alyssa probably idolizes Visenya (like Arya did) and wants to be like her. Aemon will be a king like Aegon, Baelon took the spot of Visenya and all Alyssa has left is to be their Rhaenys and become a mother (also she will like sex in a marriage of love with her brother and die early like Rhaenys). And in fact, her son Viserys became the next king and was similar to Aenys. I wonder if Baelon's knighting happens before or after the first Vaegon incident. In any case, Baelon just took tomboy Alyssa's dream away from her and it will affect her future actions. He's not even a girl and he gets to be Visenya. Just how frustrated and angry Alyssa must be? And who she's going to take it out on? Maybe the younger brother she hates and can bully without any consequences?

After the first incident Vaegon was forced to train with Baelon and spend time with him for a year, but the yard incident was the first time Alyssa was included despite how much she loved training swordplay in her younger days. I'm going to assume that at 13-14 and knowing she'll marry at 15, Alyssa wasn't allowed to train anymore (or her time in the yard was greatly reduced) and instead she was forced into princess/wife lessons, learning to do things she always despised doing (like Cersei). So she sees Vaegon, getting to spend time with Baelon, her favourite brother (is he still her favourite at this point? well, she has no one else she's close to), doing things she likes doing and having absolutely miserable time of it. Alyssa must have been pissed - Vaegon gets to live her dream life at the moment and he dares to complain, he dares to dislike it. She'd kill to be in his position. She's just boiling with anger and envy. If only she was the third son, she wouldn't be forced to play her brother's perfect little bride. She could be just one of the boys and their relationship would remain as it was, uncomplicated. Maybe if she beats Vaegon, it would show everyone that she's better than him, better at being a son. Maybe her parents would realize it and something would finally change.

And of course nothing changed and she was cruel to her little brother for nothing. That's why I called the parallel to Arya rather surface, she never did anything like that to Bran or Rickon, while Cersei's hatred of Tyrion is well-documented. Also, both Vaegon and Tyrion are the bookish younger brothers with no real interest or ability to be warriors. No one defends them from their sisters, not even their parents.

Baelon completes the reenactment of the Lannister sibling dynamic because just like Jaime, he is complicit in the humiliation and traumatizing of his little brother (Vaegon - yard incident, Tyrion - Tysha incident). He brought in Alyssa, he made it happen. I wonder if Jaehaerys told him to do it, like Tywin did with Jaime. It would certainly make sense as Jaehaerys wanted Vaegon to toughen up, so using Alyssa to "motivate" him (train harder, a boy can't be beaten by a girl) could have been his idea all along.

It seems that Alyssa is the answer to the question "what-if Cersei was a Targaryen". And we know Cersei is not a good person at all. There's no evidence in text that Alyssa was a good person beyond her role as Baelon's wife. On the contrary, her treatment of Vaegon, furious rejection of Maegelle's company and non-existent relationship with Daella, who was scared of Alyssa, all prove that she wasn't a good sister to her younger siblings.

The parallels between Alyssa and Cersei are apparent. Even their two sons have some similar characteristics. Viserys and Tommen are seen as weak and soft, Daemon and Joffrey are bloodthirsty and violent.

The parallel of Alyssa to Rhaenys works as well with her son Viserys who is a weak king like Aenys and has warrior, ambitious younger brother Daemon, who was even called "second Maegor" by his contemporaries.

Marriage and dragonriding

After marriage Alyssa claims a dragon, Meleys (name starting with M like Meraxes, Rhaenys' dragon) but at first she wanted to claim Balerion, however the dragonkeepers talked her out of it.

Like her brothers before her, Alyssa Targaryen meant to be a dragonrider, and sooner rather than later. Aemon had flown at seventeen, Baelon at sixteen. Alyssa meant to do it at fifteen. 

Again, Alyssa trailing after her brothers, trying to outdo them.

Meleys was as swift a dragon as Westeros had ever seen, easily outpacing Caraxes and Vhagar when she and her brothers flew together.

That really all sounds like a competition that Alyssa is constantly participating in against her brothers, but it's all in her head. She didn't claim the bigger dragon, so she took the faster one. Even her exaggerated bragging about sex sounds like she's trying to be manlier than Baelon.

Speaking of the real competition, Alyssa wasn't a participant, but she was a vital part of it. The competition from the start was between Baelon and Aemon. Baelon was always following his older brother. He started to learn swordfighting early to catch up, had public duels with him, got knighted and claimed Vhagar - a bigger and stronger dragon than Aemon's Caraxes - at 16, so he did it at an earlier age than Aemon did (he was 17). He wanted to outdo his elder brother and marrying Alyssa was a part of that competition. Baelon gets a dragonriding sisterwife, the eldest of their sisters, the one that Jaehaerys intended for Aemon the heir. Aemon marries only their aunt with a small amount of Targaryen blood and without the Valyrian look, who will never claim a dragon. So all around, for Baelon the marriage to Alyssa is a big win over his brother. He's more like their father King than Aemon is, he's more worthy of his love (being the heir).

Young Alyssa saw how close Baelon and Aemon were - it seems natural that she wanted to be included in their competition. But the brother she focused more on was Baelon, not necessarily Aemon (though outdoing Baelon is almost guaranteed to be the same as outdoing Aemon as well). She was trailing after Baelon, she wanted to be as close to him as Aemon, have that sibling bond. Her idea to claim Balerion, the only dragon bigger than Baelon's Vhagar, not to mention the Conqueror's dragon, would have allowed her to outdo both of her brothers. Choosing Meleys, a red dragon just like Aemon's Caraxes, but faster than both of their dragons, puts her on at least equal footing with Aemon, and as a superior to both of them in terms of speed. In the air, they aren't better than she is.

Aemon marries Jocelyn when he's 15 and she's 16, while Baelon is 13 and Alyssa is 9. Alyssa marries Baelon when she's 15 and he's 18. Looks like the wedding was rushed a year because the other princesses married at 16. The reason might be that after Rhaenys was born Jocelyn became unable to give birth again so the king and queen wanted Baelon and Alyssa to quickly make a future husband for Rhaenys. Or Jaehaerys already decided to pass over Rhaenys in succession and saw Baelon as Aemon's heir, therefore Baelon needed a male heir too. Or it was all still part of the brotherly competition of who has a son first.

It's also interesting that Alyssa didn't get pregnant right after the wedding despite the reported frequent sexlife of the couple. She gave birth to Viserys in 77 AC, when she was 17, so she waited around a year before getting pregnant. Daemon was born in 81 AC and Aegon in 84 AC. There was some family planning involved with these mostly even rest periods between pregnancies. For example, Rhaenyra had her second son after a year and the third son was born after 2 years. It's most likely that Alyssa was drinking moon tea, while Baelon was enthusiastic to have sons (and get a win over Aemon). All I'm saying is that this marriage wasn't just pure passion on her side. Alyssa agreed to give children to Baelon, but she controlled when it happened (unlike her mother who was forced to birth Valerion in 77 AC, same year as Viserys, then Gael in 80 AC). That's another similarity with Cersei, who admitted to controlling her own procreation, whose children she had, how many and when.

I think Alyssa wanted to have the time in between pregnancies to pursue her hobbies. Within fortnight after birthing her sons she takes them flying on her dragon and it's not because she wants to give them legendary beginnings - it's probably because she wasn't allowed to fly for months during the pregnancy and she was just impatient to do it again.

Despite claiming a dragon, Alyssa was still excluded. She wasn't allowed to help her brothers and father during the 4th Dornish War. They would never risk her dying like queen Rhaenys in Dorne. Alyssa never used her dragon or sword skills for anything (except humiliating Vaegon). When she tells Baelon that he's made for battles and she for birthing his children, I wonder if it was how she really felt inside? Was she just resigned to her fate at that point? That no matter how much she tried, she will never be a son to Jaehaerys or an equal partner to Baelon and Aemon. She will never be Visenya.

We know that if Cersei or Arya had a dragon, they'd go apeshit with power and go off burning their enemies. And you tell me Alyssa never had a thought to fly to Oldtown and burn the Citadel as the last "fuck you" to Vaegon? Never wanted to burn the Dornish ships alongside her brothers? Never dreamed to go exploring the world? Maybe she was satisfied with Baelon and he kept her home like an anchor. She wouldn't fly off without him. Maybe he and Vhagar ensured she stayed put in King's Landing. Alyssa fully accepted her role as the mother of Baelon's sons. She bent the rules of conforming to her gender, but she couldn't truly break them or she would have lost her privileges.

The truth of Alyssa's character is that in the end she always followed the rules set by her parents. In that way she was a dutiful daughter.

Sex and dragonriding

Sex and dragonriding were Alyssa's favorite activities and she spent hours on both. In her own words she likens them to each other. She says she mounted and rode Baelon and after claiming Meleys she compares herself to her dragon saying that they were both mounted and so lost their virginity.

“Red maidens, the two of us,” the princess boasted, laughing, “but now we’ve both been mounted.”

There's no mention if adult Alyssa still continued sparring, climbing and other masculine activities she preferred in her youth, but most likely she had to give them up in order not to risk any miscarriage. Instead she spent her time on sex and dragonriding - both physical activities that she was allowed and expected to perform. But the way she did them so much, so excessively is rather odd and has implications on her state of mind.

The princess was seldom long away from the Dragonpit after that day. Flying was the second sweetest thing in the world, she would oft say, and the very sweetest thing could not be mentioned in the company of ladies. 

Except she did mention it when she announced that she rode Baelon and was going to do it again.

It seems that Alyssa replaced sparring in the yard with another activity she was doing exclusively with Baelon - having sex with him. Moreover, she puts emphasis on riding him, being on top. It suggests that she was still trying to outdo him. It was definitely a way for her to take control of some aspect of her life and their relationship.

Some readers dismiss passages about Alyssa's sexlife as just Gyldayn being gross and perverted. Her sexual behavior is brushed off as unimportant despite how uncommon and even unique her actions were. I can't think of any other female character in ASOIAF acting this way (let me know if there was one), even among the ones who liked sex.

The bride was fifteen, the groom eighteen. Unlike their father and mother, Baelon and Alyssa did not wait to consummate their union; the bedding that followed their wedding feast was the source of much ribald humor in the days that followed, for the young bride’s sounds of pleasure could be heard all the way to Duskendale, men said. A shyer maid might have been abashed by that, but Alyssa Targaryen was as bawdy a wench as any barmaid in King’s Landing, as she herself was fond of boasting. “I mounted him and took him for a ride,” she declared the morning after the bedding, “and I mean to do the same tonight. I love to ride.”

Alyssa is a 15 year old child bride who was so loud during her first time having sex that everyone in the castle heard it and talked about it, then she told them all her favorite sex position. And she was boasting about it. That is not a normal behavior of a girl that just lost her virginity. Gyldayn is weird not because he reported her abnormal actions and words, but because he tries to make them sound like a good thing and not something actually concerning. Just because she's so eager to have sex with her husband, it's all good and fun. And even then, she's compared to a bawdy barmaid (I'm not exactly sure from this wording if Alyssa is boasting that she's bawdy like a barmaid or Gyldayn compares her to a bawdy barmaid because she was fond of boasting about her sexlife). Gyldayn treats this story like a humorous anecdote.

Even if Alyssa was just a horny teenager, why was she so shamelessly discussing her wedding night in public? The reasons I could think of are:

An attempt to act more like a man than a woman by boasting of a sexual "conquest" (another question is if she even knew how women act, she wasn't close to any, but I'm going to assume she knew normal conduct and chose to act differently on purpose).

To say: "I was on top, so I'm the real boss in this marriage".

To embarrass and shame the gossiping courtiers (maybe? But then she kept having loud sex so maybe not).

As a passive-aggressive form of rebellion against her parents - "you can make me marry, but I'm going to act in a way that's as scandalous and embarrassing to you as possible while technically obeying the rules and doing what I'm supposed to do".

Because she feels so euphoric after the sex and she has a poor impulse control, so she's oversharing.

Because being shameless and bawdy is a part of her personality now.

Alyssa's unusual sexual behaviour is dismissed as her just being a horny teenager or having high sex drive or being so in love with Baelon or all of the above. The fact is that Alyssa's sexual habits didn't change until she died at 24 after complications from childbirth.

Alyssa's promiscuous behavior could be caused by her still emulating Baelon and following his lead like in her childhood. When they married he was 18, older and more knowledgeable. Baelon was a lusty lad, so she became bawdy like a barmaid to match him.

I think it can be argued that Alyssa exhibits signs of sex addiction.

Prince Baelon had not ceased smiling since his marriage. When not aloft, Baelon and Alyssa spent every hour together, most oft in their bedchamber. Prince Baelon was a lusty lad, for those same shrieks of pleasure that had echoed through the halls of the Red Keep on the night of their bedding were heard many another night in the years that followed. 

One thing is being newlyweds, the other is spending many hours having sex and making it a habit for 9 years of marriage. From the sound of it Alyssa's life revolved around dragonriding and sex, excluding any other activities and company of other people. It seems extremely unhealthy. Spending this much time and focus on sex sounds like she's addicted.

Against all advice, his mother clapped the boy in swaddling clothes, strapped him to her chest, and took him aloft on Meleys when he was nine days old. 

Unnecessary risky behaviour resulting in child endagerment? Check. That's what an addict would do. Their inhibitions and impulse control are often lowered.

Another sign of sexual addiction is "engaging in sexual behaviors that go against your personal values, religious beliefs or what society deems appropriate". Alyssa's loud sex and boasting about it definitely aren't what Westerosi society deems appropriate.

Next sign of sex addiction is engaging in paraphilia, like exhibitionism, voyeurism, sadomasochism. Alyssa's behavior is almost exhibitionistic. She's definitely skirting an edge here. She doesn't expose her sexlife to other people's eyes, but to their ears.

“They call me Baelon the Brave,” the prince told his wife at her bedside, “but you are far braver than me. I would sooner fight a dozen battles than do what you’ve just done.” Alyssa laughed at him. “You were made for battles, and I was made for this. Viserys and Daemon and Aegon, that’s three. As soon as I am well, let’s make another. I want to give you twenty sons. An army of your own!”

This quote says a lot. Baelon praised her for being so brave, because childbirth is dangerous and women died because of it - their grandmother Alyssa Velaryon, their sister Daella just died recently, their mother had difficult births with Valerion and Gael. Alyssa just laughs it off, dismisses his worry. She doesn't see the danger. Well, she survived it 3 times, so she's different than other women (she's not as she later doesn't recover and dies at 24). She wants to get back to it ASAP - or rather to the babymaking. That's a risky behavior that disregards her health in pursuit of what she's addicted to. She wants to get her fix.

All of this put together paints Alyssa as at least sex obssessed if not sex addicted, especially the amount of time she dedicates to it and her risktaking, reckless attitude, against justified worries of Baelon or maesters advice. Gyldayn could be exaggerating. Or he's just saying it how it was but makes it into a humorous, romantic tale. Of brother and sister that do nothing but fly on dragons and have sex. That's their entire marriage life. But the focus put on it really makes it look unusual. Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 13 children, but there are no "heartwarming" tales about how much time they spent in the bedroom.

Alyssa expressed a belief that she was made for giving birth, for procreation. She accepts her assigned role in life and finds as much enjoyment as she could in fulfilling it. There's nothing else. She was raised to do only this and the indoctrination worked too well. Alysanne wanted the couple to be like her own marriage and Alyssa emulates her by planning to have a bunch of kids, even though Alysanne was so much more to Jaehaerys - advisor, diplomat, lawmaker. Baelon even told Aemon that he leaves making law to him, because he prefers to make sons.

“I will leave the making of law to you, brother,” Prince Baelon declared, whilst drinking to Prince Aemon’s appointment. “I would sooner make sons.”

Apart from her environment and fulfilling expectations what could be the other causes of Alyssa's sexual behavior? It could be related to many mental health problems and we know Targaryens as a family have a predisposition to them. If she's addicted, it could be a response to personal trouble. A tomboy is forced to be a traditional wife, giving up her dreams. It could be a coping mechanism if she was feeling depression. Sex raises mood like alcohol. An addict wants to forget his troubles and just feel good. Alyssa's younger sisters, Saera and Viserra, also showed signs of addiction, both getting drunk when they were young teenagers. Saera at 12, Viserra at 15.

Alysanne was pregnant with Valerion and Gael around the time of both of Alyssa's pregnancies. I wonder what does it do to a pregnant woman to watch her mother be forced into risky pregnancies, having difficult labour and recovering for half a year after that? Did she feel like she was seeing her own future? That this will be her in 20 years? But it's too depressing to think about, so she had to ignore, repress, deny it. She was different, younger, stronger, she was in control of her body, Baelon wouldn't do that to her. This is her battle and she was made for this, she's a warrior. Her mother survived it 13 times, so Alyssa will too. Better stop thinking about it and go have sex or fly on a dragon.

Alyssa having depression may seem like a leap but as I said - she has a good reason. She's a tomboy turned housewife at 15. What are her real feelings on the marriage? Gyldayn never provides anything substantial. He says outright that "Prince Baelon had not ceased smiling since his marriage" and links it with all the sex he was having. Why didn't he say instead "Baelon and Alyssa were smiling", just Baelon? What about Alyssa? She's constantly dragonriding or having sex. Both of those activities are keeping her way from all other people except Baelon. It looks like she's isolating herself. When she interacts with others, she's bawdy and boasting about her sexlife (after wedding night, after claiming Meleys) or reaffirms her role in life as a childbearer (to Baelon and in front of the maesters after she gave birth to Aegon).

Alyssa's solitary activities after marriage and over the top enthusiasm for sex may be covering up her feelings of dissatisfaction with her life. Look at the similarity to her son Daemon, he had a reputation for his abundant sexlife and patronage of brothels when he was unhappily married to Rhea Royce. He couldn't even hold any position on a Small Council for long and Otto was undermining him and taking the spot as his brother's chief councilor. Daemon had plenty of reasons to be unhappy and dissatisfied with his life and that's when he was behaving promiscuously. Then it all disappeared after Rhea's death and him choosing a new wife for himself. It's likely Alyssa passed the predisposition to sex addiction to her son.

Other character acting similar to Alyssa in the series would be Robert Baratheon - a chief example of a depressed sex addict, but he was masking it by feasting and getting drunk all the time. Alyssa's main parallel, Cersei, became an alcoholic, which is just another type of addiction. Cersei also exhibited risky sexual behavior by having an affair with Jaime, having his children and everything that followed from that (like sex in the Broken Tower, her affair with Lancel).

Taking into account all of the above I'd say it looks like Alyssa developed a sex addiction and any type of addiction signifies deep personal trouble that one tries to forget/cope with.

Gyldayn portrays the marriage as happy, but the only one who was shown as happy was Baelon. Gyldayn sees that Alyssa liked sex, satisfied her husband's sexual needs all the time, accepted her role as a mother and gave birth to sons so he treats it like a successful marriage. But he doesn't care about what Alyssa felt, only Baelon.

Alyssa - the role model for Saera and Viserra

Alyssa resembles Cersei because of her "I'm not like the other girls" attitude. She wants to be in the boys' club with Aemon and Baelon and has nothing in common with her sisters. And she's said to avoid other girls' company. It's all rather strange. In a way she's like Alysanne, who was purposely deprived of female friends in her childhood by her mother, however in Alyssa's case it was a choice.

Despite Alyssa's distance she had a profound effect on both Saera and Viserra as their older sister. She was supposed to be their role model as a Targaryen princess. They were probably constantly compared to her and told that she's a good wife. If they want to be successful, they should be like Alyssa. Unfortunately for the younger girls, Alyssa is in fact a terrible role model.

Saera is the most similar to Alyssa out of all their sisters. This comparison is explicitly stated in the book, as according to her maesters Saera was:

as strong and quick and spirited as her sister Alyssa.

The similarities between the family's problem child and the parentally approved older sister are also in their behaviour, which Saera was probably copying off Alyssa. Saera even wanted to claim Balerion like Alyssa initially did before the dragonkeepers changed her mind. It's also interesting to note that:

Septon Barth tells us that Saera’s sisters all misliked her to various degrees.

That means Alyssa shared the common dislike for Saera despite keeping general distance from all her sisters and the 6 year age gap. What reason Alyssa would have to dislike Saera? I think the most possible reason was that Saera became Jaehaerys' favourite and could get anything she wanted, despite her general mayhem and misbehavior. Meanwhile, Alyssa's efforts to please him, first by being like the boys, then obediently marrying Baelon, didn't get her anything she wanted, apart from a dragon that she wasn't allowed to use for battle or for any other purpose than leisure flying. Jaehaerys was never the same after Saera's escape to Essos but there was no mention of his reaction to Alyssa's death. It's clear that Saera had his affection without trying, but Alyssa didn't, so Alyssa had a good reason to be jealous of Saera and dislike her.

Going in chronological order, the first similarity between Alyssa and Saera was their cruel and humiliating treatment of those who couldn't even defend themselves from them - their own siblings. Alyssa was cruel to her little brother Vaegon and humiliated him so badly that he completely gave up on learning the sword despite keeping up with it for a year, but no one ever mentions her actions as something bad. Vaegon was an unpopular, bookish and unhappy boy that wasn't good at traditional male activities like fighting, so Alyssa could bully him without any repercussions and even with a tacit permission from their father (reminds me of Sam Tarly situation). No wonder he lost confidence, closed off and took the first chance to leave the family that didn't love or protect him. No wonder he only visited when he was summoned and his letters to Alysanne were perfunctory.

Was Saera emulating Alyssa's cruelty? It's very possible. Saera was 6 and 7 years old when the two incidents of Alyssa bullying Vaegon happened. Saera might not have seen them (it's likely she did), but she definitely heard of them and saw how Alyssa was unpunished. It must have emboldened Saera's own cruel streak. Her first childhood victim was Daella who she kept scaring with her pranks (the prank with hiding bees in a chamberpot was definitely dangerous and cruel). Daella was an easy target as she was mentally disabled and delicate. Septon Barth noted Saera's jealousy of the attention Daella was getting from their mother. After Daella left, Saera started playing cruel and humiliating pranks on another mentally disabled person, the court fool Tom Turnip.

It's also worth noting that both Vaegon and Daella were in Jaehaerys' disfavour because they both failed to meet his expectations. Both were avoiding marriage in their own ways, Vaegon lacked martial talent and Daella's mental disability was the proof against the king's Targaryen supremacy propaganda. Jaehaerys was the driving force to send them away from their home, never to return. It seems that Alyssa was used by their father to teach Vaegon a lesson. Saera not only picked up on Jaehaerys' dislike for Daella, but also on his quiet approval of Alyssa's bullying of Vaegon. She knew it was allowed.

The next similarity between sisters was in their hypersexual behaviour. Saera was 8 years old when Alyssa got married and the tale of her wedding night spread. She must have heard some of Alyssa's boasting about sex, saying how much she loved it, or the often occuring loud sex sounds coming from her bedroom. It continued until Alyssa's death when Saera was 16, nearly 17. Saera's formative years were spent influenced by her sister's sex-obssessed example. Alyssa's behaviour was accepted by all, approved by their parents despite how unusual it was. It's no wonder Saera took a cue from her older sister and began her own sexual explorations as a teenager with her group of friends. She even sought out the older and more experienced Braxton Beesbury to be her Baelon substitute.

Like Alyssa, Saera also exhibited signs of sex addiction - risky sexual behavior, sex with multiple partners, sexually humiliating pranks on Tom Turnip (voyeuristic in nature - she wanted to see him naked, to see him having sex). We know she had an addictive personality as she became alcoholic when she was 12 years old.

Saera's scandalous sexual conduct was caught by her parents after Alyssa's death, in the same year. And she even used as one of her justifications that "Baelon used to kiss Alyssa all the time", proving that she took notice of their relationship and how sex-focused it was. She learned from them that a happy, successful marriage is based on having sex all the time. At the same time, the only other example she had was her parents, who were becoming distant from each other and stopped having sex (and their reasons for disagreeing were Daella's death and Jaehaerys forcing 2 risky pregnancies on Alysanne, which endagered her life). Aemon and Jocelyn lived on Dragonstone, so they couldn't serve as a more normal example of a married couple for Saera.

Viserra was also affected by Alyssa's bad example. She witnessed Alyssa's marriage from the age of 4 to 13 years old, so for most of her young life. According to Alysanne:

"She aims much higher, our Viserra. I have seen the way she preens and prances around Baelon. That is the husband she desires, and not for love of him. She wants to be the queen.”

So Alysanne started losing it because she thought that Viserra wanted to be the queen, while Aemon was the heir and married, so marrying Baelon would not make her a queen. Unless she suspected the sly Viserra to have a plan to get rid of Aemon and Rhaenys to get to the throne after marrying Baelon. However, the one who explicitly stated that she wanted to be a queen was Saera, not Viserra. Alysanne was confusing her daughters. Previously she had more accurate insights on her children. Maybe she was spending less time with them and focusing more on young Gael.

Alysanne statement has to be taken with a grain of salt, it's not entirely factual, but rather her opinion on Viserra. She can't allow Alyssa to be replaced in Baelon's heart, as she fashioned their marriage in the image of her own with Jaehaerys. She believes that Baelon and Alyssa are the true love story, so he can never remarry. Her solution to the danger of Viserra replacing Alyssa is to betroth her to the old lord Manderly. That way she'll stay far away from Baelon and Alyssa's memory will be preserved.

Viserra understandably protests the betrothal, but her parents are unyielding, so she decides to seduce Baelon by sneaking into his bed naked and drunk. The thing is, that behaviour wasn't Viserra's usual MO. She was known for playing with boys like puppies, manipulating them to do what she wanted and sending them on foolish quests. She wasn't a seductress. Then why did she take this straightforward approach with Baelon and just jumped into his bed?

“He married one sister, why not another?” Viserra told her closest friend, the empty-headed Beatrice Butterwell. “I am much prettier than Alyssa ever was, you saw her. She had a broken nose.”

This quote proves Viserra's interest in Baelon and also provides a lead to the reason for Viserra's actions. Based on what Viserra saw of Baelon's relationship with Alyssa, she concluded that Baelon only cares about sex and the only way to get his attention is to offer him her body. Viserra doesn't know how to interact with or romance her older brother. Alyssa spent most of her time with him by having sex, so that must be how it's done, right? It sounds like Viserra is unaware if there was anything other than sex between Alyssa and Baelon. She even thinks that he wouldn't care which sister he's having sex with.

It's important to note that Viserra is vain, but she is not stupid. She's described as sly and capable of manipulating people to do what she wants. A skilled manipulator has to be observant and notice things about people. And those are the conclusions she drew about Baelon and Alyssa's marriage which she observed for most of her life - that all he cared about was having sex with his sisterwife, that all a good sisterwife had to do was to be sexually available. It's possible that Viserra didn't understimate Baelon's actual loyalty to dead Alyssa, but only his sense of duty and honour. He didn't take advantage of her, even when she offered, but if his parents ordered him to marry her, he'd probably obey them like he always did.

Alyssa is seen as different and better then her younger sisters despite all the evidence to the contrary. The positive spin on her qualities is like the opposite of the negative spin on her sisters' characters. Basically, she gets special treatment (from both her parents and Gyldayn) because she married Baelon and fulfills the traditional role of wife and mother. On the other hand, when her sisters follow her example or want the same things she had, they are villainized. Saera is called "an evil child" by her septa, then "a whore" by her father and heavily punished, forced to watch her father kill her lover, Viserra is labeled as ambitious and manipulative by her mother.

Maegelle, Alyssa and the incestous family planning

Maegelle seems to most people like the sister that had the least to do with Alyssa, had a good life as a septa and was lucky to escape her sisters' various tragic fates. However, she was heavily impacted as a child by Alyssa and also their parents' plans for both of them.

Alyssa broke the chain of younger siblings trailing after the elder. Baelon followed Aemon, Alyssa followed Baelon, but when Maegelle tried to follow her, Alyssa was completely against it. Probably she just didn't want Maegelle joining the dynamic Alyssa had with their brothers, getting close to them and taking away their affection.

Maegelle joined the Faith of the Seven in 73 AC when she was 10 years old. It can be argued that Alysanne was always going to send one daughter to Oldtown, but did it have to be Maegelle and not Daella, Saera or Viserra at a later date? Maegelle could have married Vaegon or someone else, so why didn't she?

Jaehaerys' idea for arranging marriages was pretty simple, he wanted to pair them up by the order of birth - eldest son to eldest daughter, second son to second daughter and so on. It was Alysanne who had to intervene and tell him who liked who, he had no clue about the relationships between his children. According to Jaehaerys' matchmaking plan, Aemon would have married Alyssa, so logically I assume next would be Baelon and Maegelle, Vaegon and Daella. Alysanne must have seen problems with that, like the age gaps - 6 years between Aemon and Alyssa, 5 years between Baelon and Maegelle. She also made Jocelyn sit next to Aemon during a feast for his investiture as Prince of Dragonstone when he was 7 and saw that the two got along really well. So that is one example of Alysanne's successful matchmaking and arranged well in advance before the betrothals were made.

It's likely that Maegelle's future was sacrificed to appease the Faith so they wouldn't oppose another full sibling marriage - between Alyssa and Baelon. And that's why when the betrothals were made in 68 AC, Jaehaerys told Vaegon that he will marry Daella, not Maegelle who was older.

I wonder if Maegelle became pious because she was being prepared for her life as a septa or it had something to do with Alyssa rejecting her company. Maybe the religion provided Maegelle with some comfort and friendship. Maybe she didn't want to marry her brother or anyone at all and becoming a septa allowed her to avoid that fate. The opposite was also possible, what if Maegelle only wanted to please and imitate Alysanne, who was pious herself, but she didn't actually want to become a septa? Maybe she became pious because she was praying for something specific, had some wish? The point is we will never know what Maegelle wanted to do with her life as she was never asked and the choice was taken from her before she was grown enough to make it. And the same thing happened sooner or later to all the other siblings. In any case, Alysanne removed Maegelle from the marriage plans so that Alyssa could marry Baelon.

Was it fair to Maegelle to decide her whole life for her when she was so young? Was it fair to do the same to Alyssa or any of their other siblings? The moral of the story of all the children of Jaehaerys and Alysanne is simple - that parents controlling their children's future and deciding their whole lives and careers when they are 5-10 years old is unfair, awful and often has tragic consequences. Maegelle is as much of a victim here, she was said to be bright and studious as a child, she had intelligence and potential for greatness that was squandered by sending her to be a septa. Funny that Alysanne didn't notice that Maegelle, not Alyssa, was the most like her out of all her daughters. Maegelle with her gentleness, caring for the weak like Daella, charitableness could have been the next Good Queen.

Maegelle is regarded as the only sister that got away from tragedies of her siblings. But she was made to join a religious order as a child. She never had a choice or an opportunity to be anything different. When she died, nursing patients with greyscale, she was only 34 years old. She didn't even reach middle age. She lived only 10 years longer than Alyssa. Ironically, Saera could have outlived them all, as the last time she was mentioned, she was alive at age 34 during the Great Council of 101 AC.

Alyssa despite being portrayed as accepting of her duty and even enthusiastic about having more children, isn't the happy exception, the successful daughter. She has to give up on any of her previous dreams and aspirations, she has power - a dragon, that she's not allowed to use in battle as equal with her brothers. Despite having the role of Rhaenys she can't fight alongside her brothers, she has to stay behind and be protected by them. She's reduced to being just a wife and mother and it seems to me that her enthusiasm about sex is at best her simply finding pleasure and control in what little she's allowed to have and do. She makes the best of what she has because what else she can do? It can be even argued that she showed signs of sex addiction and was hiding her dissatisfaction and depression. She dies at 24 from complications after childbirth.

Both Alyssa and Maegelle were obedient daughters who spent their lives fulfilling their parents' expectations, following the paths they didn't choose, and died as a result without even reaching middle age. They are both tragic, but their parents, Gyldayn - and through them the book readers - don't realize it.

After Alyssa's death

After Alyssa's death her shadow is cast over her younger sisters. Saera and Viserra are condemned for pursuing what was once granted to Alyssa. They can't have a brother, a lover or a dragon. They aren't allowed to fill her shoes. Alysanne projects herself on Alyssa and won't let a younger and prettier queen take her place. You know she just hates the idea of Jaehaerys marrying a new woman after she's gone, because it would disprove their eternal love, so Baelon has to be forever Alyssa's.

Alyssa isn't just a distant elder sister and bad role model for her younger sisters (who get punished for acting like she did - that's a big parenting failure of Jaehaerys and Alysanne). Her ghost deeply affects Baelon who isn't allowed to stop mourning her for the rest of his life. It's written like a proof of their great love that he couldn't move on, but what if he eventually wanted to? Baelon couldn't find happiness again after Alyssa because that would disappoint Alysanne and he was too dutiful to her. So he was stuck in this loyalty to a dead wife for 16 years (85 AC to 101 AC).

Though shattered by his loss, Baelon took solace in the two strong sons that she had left him, Viserys and Daemon, and never ceased to honor the memory of his sweet lady with the broken nose and mismatched eyes.

I find it interesting that only Baelon's reaction to her death was mentioned. Compared to the other siblings dying, usually we are told Alysanne's and/or Jaehaerys' reaction. They probably mourned her, but didn't see her death at 24 due to complications after childbirth as overly tragic. They probably thought that these things happen and there was nothing they could do. They don't realize that expecting Alyssa to keep having more children was what killed her. She had two sons, but to carry on the family tradition of sibling marriages, they needed her to have a daughter. Baelon wanted a girl, a sisterwife for his son, to continue the cycle in the next generation.

Gyldayn's description of Baelon's reaction to Alyssa's death seems overly sugary. He's trying to make their relationship look as romantic as possible, but calling her "sweet lady with the broken nose and mismatched eyes" ruins the effect. In what way Alyssa was ever sweet to anyone? Calling attention to her broken nose and mismatched eyes is rather weird, as they are physical imperfections. It's causing the whiplash, a dissonance between what was told and shown. How much of this statement by Gyldayn is even true?

Conclusions

Alyssa Targaryen is a complex character beyond being a wife and mother. She's distant from most of her siblings but has a significant influence and impact on their lives. The only one she's close to is Baelon and she tries to compete with him and Aemon. She bullied Vaegon, furiously rejected Maegelle, scared Daella and set a bad example of sexual behavior to Saera and Viserra. What's more, Alyssa's character isn't good or nice or even responsible. She's cruel, bawdy and competitive, avoids company of other girls and her sisters, because she thinks she's different (better) than them. She dismisses the danger of childbirth and unnecessarily risks her newborn sons when she takes them dragonriding.

Alyssa is deeply indoctrinated by her parents to believe in Targaryen supremacy ideology and accepts her role as a sisterwife and childbearer. She follows the rules set by them and is rewarded and praised for it. Despite that, she's likely depressed and coping by having sex or dragonriding. She exhibits signs of having a sex addiction, which is likely because her younger sisters and son Daemon also had addictive personalities. Her marriage life consists of having sex for most of the time and only her husband is mentioned to be happy with it. She's not allowed to express and pursue her own goals and the cases of her bullying Vaegon seem to be her lashing out because he rebelled against his parents' plans for his future.

Many existing similaries prove that the Alyssa is the answer to the question: "what if Cersei was a Targaryen?" She also resembles queen Rhaenys in her dynamic with her older brothers.

Alyssa's death isn't seen as tragic, despite her dying at 24 after giving birth to a third son they didn't need. She died young and for unnecessary reason. Her death was in vain as the child didn't live through infancy. The only one who was said to be mourning her was Baelon, who became a martyr of their great, lost love, and a sad widower for the rest of his life to appease Alysanne, who saw his marriage to Alyssa as a mirror to her own marriage with Jaehaerys.

Alyssa is not the one good, unproblematic daughter that Jaehaerys and Alysanne raised. Their bad parenting affected her as well as every single one of her siblings, even Maegelle, whose future was sacrificed so that Alyssa and Baelon could marry.

Jaehaerys and Alysanne weren't good parents to any of their children, including Alyssa. They decided their children's future paths when they were still too young and didn't finish growing, and then expected them to follow those plans. In result, most of the siblings died, either due to obeying their parent's will (Daenerys, Aemon, Alyssa, Maegelle, Daella) or rebelling against it (Viserra, Gael). The 3 remaining ones (Baelon, Vaegon, Saera) didn't die, but endured much suffering and hardship in their lives as an effect of their parents' control over them.

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I worked on this for a week, so I hope it's interesting and at least provides some food for thought. I'm open to questions and more discussion, so you can send asks. I might write more analysis on Jaehaerys and Alysanne's bad parenting method and maybe some other topics related to their reign.

[shebsart]

this isnt gonna be coherent but thinking about Sandor and his relation to death..

he calls his horse stranger (just alone him identifying with the stranger, the seen-as-a-monster god of death and outcasts), constantly talks about how many people he has killed and how it gives him joy, keeps this "butcher" persona that thinks killing is necessary to survive even when its innocents, talks proudly if his sigil that was based on three dogs that died trying to protect someone,fights and kills a literal undead man-gets burned in the process- only for him to come back again lol (ok this ones kind of a reach but worth mentioning for the undead gregor parallelisms) , shows arya how to give the gift of mercy "that's where the heart is, thats how you kill a man" and he denies to dig him a grave.

and after arya denying him the gift of mercy(and goes on to train to become a death giver no less lol). and then "the hound is dead" but he is "revived" by a monk-like figure and becomes a literal grave digger.. almost like hes digging graves for all the people he has killed before, maybe its also like hes serving the stranger in a way. death has become from a violent act to a quiet state of being for him at this point of the story

also i like that he dies and starts over with a different identity figuratively while his brother dies literally and comes back with a different name( if you can call it coming back)..

i dont exactly know what to make out of this as a whole because i was having seperate thoughts but i love that its there and always loved the The Stranger part to his character.

bonus from his wiki because they remind me how much i love these books and how every character connects to each other and the story so seamlessly:

[baleriontheblackkitten]

Something I find intriguing about the books is how, the more you advance through the story, the more Targeryen there are in one way or another. You start with this picture of a realm that has gone through a regime change years ago, all the royal family killed except for two kids in exile, half a world away, with no remaining connections to the land their family used to rule. And the land the Targaryen used to rule seemingly has no more connections to the old regime, and yet - the bones of the dragons are still there, underneath the main halls, hidden but very much there. There's a Targaryen in Castle Black, assumed to be harmless - a disabled elderly man whose allegiance to both the Citadel and the Night's Watch excludes him from the line of succession, theoretically wiping away his family history. And yet he is a Targaryen, and he mentors a new generation of protagonists of Westerosi politics, and surely the fact that Sam heard his words about the prince/princess who was promised and Daenerys will have consequences. There's a secret Targeryen also in the North, although very few know. There are Targaryen loyalists who are planning to topple the new regime. There's a boy who is either another secret Targaryen or the descendant of a Targaryen cadet house, either way someone whose identity (real, imagined or both of them) matters so much to many. But there are also people with Targaryen ancestry who do not carry the name because they're not descended from the male line, or descended from someone born out of wedlock, like Bellegere Otherys and who even knows how many others. And of course Targaryen blood runs through the veins of many whose ancestors married Targaryen women - the Baratheons themselves use their Targeryen blood as a crutch for their ascent to the throne, we see from Quentyn Martell that his Targaryen blood is something he feels important to who he is (although it appears not to be as relevant as he hoped to, it's still something he's acutely aware of). And of course there's Bloodraven doing what he's doing, tapping into a power no one else even understands, and also mentoring a new generation.

House Targaryen is simultaneously a ghost haunting the Seven Kingdoms, and something very much alive. After all, in this world ghosts can be things that are very much alive. It's not a contradiction. There's dead dragons under the floor, but their eyes follow you. There's more living dragons that you knew.

Speaking of which. The way the lines between dragons and Starks/weirwood trees are blurred is obviously so important. A man of Targaryen blood tapping into the power of the weirwood network and teaching a Stark about it. The empty sockets of the dragon skulls underneath the Red Keep seemingly watching you like the faces on the trees... but also the statues of the dead Starks in the crypts underneath Winterfell! It's all about the meeting of ice and fire, of Stark and Targaryen, of the Old gods of the North and the gods of Old Valyria. Aegon the Conqueror knew, he did call his prophetic dream a song of ice and fire. Rhaegar tried to figure out what that meant, at some point probably assumed the prince that was promised was supposed to be born from a Stark and a Targaryen parent. But there's probably more than that.

Also - the Starks are also assumed to be mostly dead! At some point, the general consensus (at least among those who know that the fake Arya is fake) is that only Sansa remains alive, just like the general consensus about the Targaryen is that only Dany remains alive after Viserys dies. But more Stark children are alive than most people know - there's Stark loyalists planning on putting Rickon back in Winterfell, even.

The post ended up taking a life of its own and I don't actually remember what point I was going to make initially, but hey.

[g0lightly]

got to the chapter where brienne and jaime meet the brave companions in my ASOS reread last night and realized both sansa and brienne are told by their designated lannister twin mentor to expect sexual assault as a fact of the position in society they occupy as a woman. we see this from the advice recipient’s perspective (sansa) during the blackwater and from the advice giver’s perspective (jaime) against the brave companions.

and i don’t bring that up to shit on jaime or cersei. it makes me feel deep empathy for both of them because despite whatever resentment they may have for their young idealistic counterpart, they genuinely believe that advice is helpful. it’s what they’ve had to internalize to survive. anyway, i love how these four characters mirror each other through their gendered societal roles - what else is new?

[thevelaryons]

In the show, Rhaenys’ reaction to Corlys’ affair was very muted. That’s likely a result of her show personality being quite different from her book version. Therefore, I imagine that book!Rhaenys would behave very differently to the news of her husband’s affair. Fire and Blood stated that Corlys took care to keep the affair secret in order to avoid Rhaenys’ wrath:

Princess Rhaenys, his wife, had the fiery temperament of many Targaryens, Mushroom says, and would not have taken kindly to her lord husband fathering bastards on a girl half her age, and a shipwright’s daughter besides. Therefore his lordship had prudently ended his “shipyard trysts” with Mouse after Alyn’s birth, commanding her to keep her boys far from court. Only after the death of Princess Rhaenys did Lord Corlys at last feel able to bring his bastards safely forward.

In many instances of cheating that happen throughout the books, the reaction of the wives to their husbands’ affairs is dependent on the wives’ personalities.

Helaena express irritated resignation when referencing Aegon being with his mistress. Helaena is a gentle and sweet natured person who doesn’t typically raise a fuss about anything.

Baela argues with Alyn when she suspects him of having an affair. The mistress in question is a ruling princess so there’s nothing Baela can do to her. She can only express her anger towards her husband. Baela is known for having a bold and fiery personality.

Rhaenyra is furious at the possibility of Daemon cheating on her and potentially impregnating his mistress, a lowborn girl. Her response is to order the execution of her husband’s mistress. Rhaenyra is shown to be a very proud woman who is quick to anger.

Catelyn is bothered by the affection she believes Ned holds for the mother of his bastard son. She makes many attempts to have the bastard child sent away. As much as she loves Ned, she can never forgive him for keeping his bastard son at Winterfell, because he is a reminder of her husband’s affair. Catelyn is a very dutiful wife but also exhibits wilful behaviour at times.

Cersei resents Robert for many reasons, which includes his tendency to always cheat on her. She has previously killed her husband’s mistresses and the bastard children he fathered on them. On one occasion, she even sold Robert’s mistress to a passing slaver because the affair occurred too close to home, at Casterly Rock. Cersei goes the extra mile by also carrying on her own affairs behind her husband’s back. She is cruel and wilful, with many of her actions motivated by her wounded pride.

Rhaenys is described as being spirited, proud and fierce. She is also known to have a fiery temperament.

I do not think Rhaenys would go straight to kill mode. Though her reaction would certainly depend on the manner of how she learns Corlys cheated on her. It’s said that Addam and Alyn have Laenor’s likeness so that might affect Rhaenys’ behaviour. Rhaenys does have a very ‘fire & blood’ mentality, but she might not be so willing to kill children, especially those that look like her own son. Marilda is the other woman, so she doesn’t have any such protection from Rhaenys.

For highborn women like Rhaenyra and Cersei, they primarily express their discontent by taking their anger out on the (lowborn) mistress/bastards because they have no recourse in addressing their highborn royal husbands. As a princess, Rhaenys occupies a higher social status than Corlys. She would definitely quarrel with him, just as Baela was said to do with Alyn. But at the end of the day, Corlys is still a man in a patriarchal society that says cheating is okay:

Many men fathered bastards. Catelyn had grown up with that knowledge. It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles.

So Rhaenys would ultimately have to redirect her anger elsewhere. One of the core themes of the story is that it is the smallfolk that suffer in the conflict between the highborn. During times of war, the highborn target the smallfolk on each other’s lands as a way to get back at each other.

Rhaenys could possibly order Marilda’s death, but might spare the children since they are just children. Though she would not allow them to remain on Driftmark. If Rhaenys’ own children are dead at the time she learns of the affair, she would be even less willing. If she did decide to spare Marilda, then Rhaenys would still want her gone. I think she would be very insistent on having Corlys’ mistress and bastards exiled (on pain of death, as is often the case). They can go elsewhere in Westeros or across the sea to Essos. But I do not see a scenario in which Rhaenys would be comfortable with their presence on Driftmark. As a Targaryen princess and the Lady of Driftmark, it would be considered an affront to her pride to let her husband’s mistress and bastards continue living in the place that is also her home.

[franzkafkagf]

ever thought about how aegon was alicent‘s first and her last left? your house is burning and your children are gone. except him. except him. he came back to her, unrecognizable, burnt and twisted, but he came back to her. she has him still.

i have done everything you’ve asked me to. i try so hard but it will never be enough for you. and it wasn‘t. she asked him to save their family, save the realm, save her. he didn‘t, he couldn‘t. he did come back to her. he had cursed her on the day he was born.

do you love me? you imbecile. i love those bones of you. i love you so much i have sacrificed everything to see you on the throne. i have sacrificed my youth. sacrificed my decency. sacrificed my oldest. i have sacrificed you. i love you. my oldest, my firstborn, my sacrifice.

and as he walks towards his mother like an animal to his butcher she plants a kiss on his forehead. her little sacrificial lamb, he came back. came back to her. did i do well mother? did i do enough? no. i love you. you came back.

i wonder who he thought about when the poison touched his lips.

[jozor-johai]

some of my favorite "evidence" for the Seven:

Davos, ardent worshipper of the seven, who stayed true in the face of a false god, is miraculously saved from drowning during the Blackwater and then, once he's stranded on a remote rock, he prays to the Mother for salvation and is delivered a ship.

Sandor, too, has a certain reverence for the Faith in him, even if he shows it in a blasphemous way, naming his horse Stranger; Sandor, too, is (probably) saved by the faith in exchange for a new life of devotion, doing peaceful work of the kind that the Hound was never allowed to do

this is the kind of thing I say when people tell me the Seven aren't real. Should we imagine that this is any less real than Melisandre or Thoros attributing her powers to "R'hllor" ?