#mva series

[man-monsters-and-aliens]

older old doodles (2020 maybe?) of early episodes which scenes I liked

[arianabreedwell]

[blob-areafiftysomethingginormica]

For @multi-kinker

“Ruby, I heard you said stuff about me, well, give your best shot and I won’t go easy on you” Ginormica, who’s size-changing into 40ft woman, lift her one foot up then slam into the ground, making cars leap into the air and even the buildings to shake dangerously, the street where Ginormica slam her left feet make it large cracks

[mmonsters-vs-aliens]

an inch away from just making Resurgence into a fancomic instead of anything else

[thr0wnawayy]

Imo the League of Villains should have never existed from the main story of MHA. They were utterly unbalanced and were so flawed that no attempt of fixing could fix them.

I get where your coming from. I

I honestly believe the LOV really needed was time to grow away from the spotlight.

Think of the LOV as leftover pizza (I know, just stick with me for a minute)

Too long in the microwave/oven/pan and it tastes like hardback, too little and it becomes soggy muddled. There's a very specific way you need to do things and that's by not overthinking it.

Hori kept the microwave on too long and the LOV's potential evaporated.

From what I can tell, MHA worked best when it had a 'Villain of the week's type of thing going on.

This was most prominent and best set up with Stain, Stain's character/arc not only expanded the world of MHA but also brought up deeper questions about Hero society

What's most important here is that Stain didn't overstay his welcome. He rolled in, made every panel count and then went out like a champ. Affecting the protagonist and those around him.

He had an impact that's felt throughout the rest of the series (There is no Internship Arc in Ba Sing Se) not inspite of his short lived presence but because of it.

At some point, Hori lost this concept and the plot went with it.

I think the main problem with the LOV started after Kamino. Before this, every member has solid, or at least tangible ideals.

The Vanguard Action Squad was the LOV at it's most raw, not perfect but functional. They felt like people, when Spinner stops Magne from pursuing Midoriya, it feels real for the world.

Simply put the LOV (much like 1A) worked best as individuals, differing worldviews and all.

So when Hori robbed the LOV of their autonomy by practically wrangling them to Shigaraki, it in turn killed the LOV, because now nothing was individual about them.

If you want an example, how about Magne's death. Her last words are the very last time anyone in the LOV asserts any belief besides Shigaraki's own.

After this the LOV barely give any resistance to Shigaraki's plans no matter how short sighted or convoluted.

Kurogiri is outright sacrificed by the narrative so that Shigaraki finally has to step up.

Shigaraki's reaction to Toga's rage and grief follwing Magne's death can be amounted to: "Trust me bro, we're doing this for us bro, please believe me bro."

It's absurd.

As for being flawed, I'll assume you mean their motives.

What needs to be understood is that the LOV (Pre Kamino) and the PLF (Post Kamino) are not the same characters

Flanderisation is the phenomenon of a characters worst traits being exacerbated over a period of time until said character is unrecognizable from their original self.

This is what Hori did the LOV and he did this intentionally.

At some point he realized that the Villains actually had more of a point than the heroes, this likely occured after the MVA arc when fans began rooting for the LOV.

To counter this Hori sabotaged multiple characters and plots in a desperate attempt to justify his woolies and unfortunately for everyone who's isn't an abuser-stan (Enji and Bakuo). The rest of the cast and world suffered greatly.

What you ended up with are characters so detached from their origins that they might as well not even be the same characters at all.

There's an image somewhere that encapsulates this perfectly, it's a 4 panel comic with two stick figures (one black and one blue). If I ever find it or someone links it I'll be sure to upload it here

[palepaintersweets]

I drew a funny moment that references from an episode of Monsters vs Aliens series called, "Ginormicat".

MVA Sonic au belongs to @weirdozjunkary

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

Watching a series about how cult leaders are made and again I'm in awe of how Tomura had everything laid down for him to become one.

He kinda was during the Paranormal Liberation Front bit, but he really didn't care about them 😭

It's impressive how many times he chose to be honest with the members of the League. He was not trying to manipulate them, he was not trying to mastermind anything ill intended with them??? He never tried to use AFO's name to give himself more importance, which is wild. You're the heir of the king of the underworld, but you use it as an excuse for others to bow down to him. Sure, you call yourself the king, but that's because you will do it by "your own merits"???

There's even a moment in MVA when Compress is soooooo worried over Tomura's wellbeing that he uses Tomura's identities as leverage to force Doc Garaki to help them!!! Crazy crazy, Mr. Compress goes "HE CAN'T DIE HE'S AFO'S SPECIAL BOY RIGHT? YOU MUST HELP HIM". It's so clear that Mr. Compress didn't care about the AFO bit, but he knew Garaki cared and Compress would do anything to keep Tomura protected.

I'm just saying!!

He could have taken advantage of them, but the most Tomura did was break them free and told them to cause havoc. He never encouraged them to not be friends, to distrust each other or to only pay attention to him. He never encouraged them to compete to be closer to him. There weren't any ranks beside him as the boss and even then he'd go beside them to war, he'd fight next to them, he would listen to their complaints and change what he could to accommodate their demands.

Right from the start, Tomura never saw them as his slaves (like AFO) or soldiers (like Redestro). He did call them pawns in a game once at the start. The difference with Overhaul is that Tomura saw himself also as a pawn and he saw the League as important characters. That's his team. He won't plan for them to die or sacrifice themselves. He plans for them to succeed! He plans on making their dreams come true, not just his. He won't put his own goals over theirs, he won't destroy what they like, he won't cut down their freedom.

Tomura explicitly opposed the cult-like systems of bnha. He called Redestro a coward for letting his people fight for him while he watched from afar. Tomura challenged Overhaul over the importance of their "subordinates", making clear that he didn't consider the League of Villains disposable or even replaceable. While AFO took over his body he would only talk about himself over and over, but whenever Tomura broke through and as soon as he was back in control, he talked about his friends and the League. Even through the possession and the fighting and the pain, they were in his mind.

He was thinking of them.

Tomura was a brat. He would throw tantrums and call himself the king and give orders and arrange plans without them. The difference is that Tomura never tried to step over the League of Villains. He didn't care if Spinner had a weak quirk, he was a valuable member as the rest. He didn't punish Twice for bringing Overhaul to them, instead gave him a chance to make it up because he knew that Twice was feeling bad about it. Tomura allowed Dabi to come and go as he pleased, trusting him even if Dabi never had a good recruited lol. He'd call Toga a brat, but he'd defend her too and he'd answer to her whenever she questioned him. He spared an entire cult system for Compress and his sushi. He terrorized Overhaul to avenge Magne.

Tomura never snapped at any of them beyond their introductions. Even when they'd sometimes threaten him physically. Even then.

He had everything to be a crazy cult leader who promised the ending of times, a free world and whatever. He talked a lot of bullshit, said a lot of true things, but he was human about it, sincere.

He never lied to the heroes either, did he? Never said something he didn't believe in. Never hide his hatred or resentment. Tomura never pretended to be someone he was not, unlike AFO.

I think about all of this when people ask if Tomura can be saved. I think about how his circumstances were the worst imaginable, about the weight of the grooming, abuse and the brainwashing he had to survive. I think of 21 consecutive years of hell on Earth, but somehow he isn't as cruel as others. He can be, he showed us as much. He has done terrible things just because he wanted, not 'cause he was told to or manipulated into doing it. If he wanted, he could be as cruel as AFO.

And yet.

And yet.

[bibibbon]

Hi, so I was thinking about and as much I think shig and Izu are underveloped as fuck...I was thinking...what if the saving arc thing was in reverse?

Shig sees how the heroes mistreat Izu, who in his eyes must be the most innocent person in all this mess, and decides to save him?

Sure sure it would need some tweaks as Shig needs to stop being all destruction and be afo's bootlicker.

But imagine the idea

Shiga, a villain, is set to save a hero.

Imagine of the possibilities. And if we want a war...why not Izu and Shig against the hero society and the status quo?

Hi @mikeellee 👋

This is an interesting route to take shigaraki and izukus characters and dynamics in.

While I do perfer the idea that both izuku and shigaraki want to save each other believing that the other needs to be saved and that their method is the best.

This is an equally interesting scenario that would add more development and interest to just izuku wanting to save shigaraki because he saw a crying kid.

For this scenario to occur there will be some adjustments required such as shigaraki coming to the conclusion that he wants to actually save something or someone instead of destroying everything. This can be easily achieved by having izuku and shigaraki interact more with shigaraki coming to know and understand izuku better as a person and vice versa. Shigaraki needs to understand izuku to a deep core level to even understand just how mistreated izuku was in the past and is kind of now.

You can start with shigaraki in the mall going to izuku for advice and have the interactions build up from there. Izuku won't tell anyone due to a variety of factors like not fully trusting adults and believing that its better if he were the one to talk to shigaraki since he isn't being harmed by him.

Ultimately, the closer they grow the more they share to each other and the more they see each others lives in different lenses which has shigaraki helping izuku see that the way he is being treated by bakugo is wrong and that all for one is just manipulating shigaraki.

Obviously, it would take a lot of development to even come to this point and it would be interesting to add obstacles within their paths whether that be the downfall of all for one and all might, the overhaul arc and the rise of the MVA , etc.

Finally, moving back to the first point the series would have an interesting irony in where a villain wants to and is willing to save a hero. Where a villain manipulated for the means of evil breaks that structure because he wants to save a hero, where a villain becomes more humane and heroic than the others, where a villain understands and develops helping change society for the greater good with the resources he has due to the MVA.

The same can apply to izuku but in the opposite way.

[ballinandcantgetup452]

VERY OBVIOUS MY HERO ACADEMIA CHAPTER 427 SPOILERS

So... I guess Deku's ending the series quirkless. Honestly, I think that's perfect.

I'm sure we've all seen the memes of Fast Food Izuku, but, if you actually thought about it for a sec, Deku becoming an ambassador of peace is kind of an amazing ending. I feel like the thesis of BNHA (at the very least from MVA and onwards) was the idea of a hero society was contributing in pushing the cycle of violence and brutality that hurt everybody that was considered abnormal. All Might both redefined the idea of a hero and killed the idea of altruism just by existing in his prime.

It's kind of why I love Deku's very last costume (I'm presuming).

For a while, I wondered why the Final War suit was throwing me off so much. I finally found out it's because that costume purposefully makes itself almost iconic. I made a post on an old account about how Deku's character progresses through his costume and how the more iconic the costume becomes, the closer Deku is getting to his arc being completed. What I specifically love about this rendition is that I believe Horikoshi is saying that he isn't fighting Shiggy as Deku, he's fighting him as Izuku.

That all being said, I do wish that the manga presented Deku sacrificing OFA in a more FMAB "Good job! Be satisfied! You made the right choice!" type of vibe, but that's coming from the guy that unironically wanted a "yeah, and that was My Hero Academia" to be the last line.

I'm fine with him magically getting a quirk, but there's a part of me that really hopes that he becomes an ambassador of peace. That seems more narratively fulfilling.

[lineli225]

Tomura's Kill count in Canon

I'm done with people calling Tomura a "sadistic genocidal mass murder who killed millions" BECAUSE HE ISN'T.

So, i finally decided to prove it my self.

So today I'll be listing EVERY person Tomura killed! With his reasons too.

1- His father, his first intentional kill and one of the few he felt a thrill or pleasure, justified since he abused him.

3- The two thugs, he killed them under AFO's pressure, and if you pay attention, he was wheezing during it the same way he did during his panic attacks.

Time skip to the present:

USJ had no kills (despite his attempts), Stain's arc had no kills either (except some papers and a binocular, RIP). No kills even during Kamino, as he seemed to not even want to kill Bakugou.

Tomura's first kill, chronologically, in the entire series, is ironically, only on the 4th season, and 11th story arc (Shie Hassaikai Arc)

4 kills so far, one of Overhaul's man, this kill was literally self defense (and revenge)

5- The cop driving the police car, guarding the ambulance Ovehaul was in (we don't know if he died or just lost his hand though, it might not have even been intentional considering he aimed to the steering wheel)

Then we have the Overhaul arm snatching scene, the only moment Tomura is shown as actually sadistic so far.

Totally owned though, Overhaul shouldn't have threatened him, killed and injured his friends

Then, we move to the MVA arc, where the real kill count starts

First, we have a unknown number of kills, when the league visits Creature Rejection Clan, there was around 20 visible members, assuming the kills where shared equally though the League, we can say Tomura killed around 5 or 6 of these guys.

Which he did with no Sadistic glee, actually, so far, he either kills with no emotions, or seems bothered by it (Also, racists, so owned 💅)

Anyways, around 10 kills by now.

2 kills, then i could count 32 people, so 44 kills.

Considering Deika had 110,000 Meta Liberation members, and that good part of these people had died by GigantoMachia, Twice, Dabi and others.

We don't know though, how many where killed by Tomura's decay wave.

In the end Hawks had reported around 9,946 MLA members dead

I don't know if the kill wave should be counted though- since they weren't direct intentional kills

So by far Tomura has killed around 7,000 people, but none of them where innocent people (except that cop rip) People left alive:

Now we move to the Paranormal Liberation War Arc

First kill being X-less, then once again a unknown number of both heroes and villains killed by the decay wave, let's count the visible/shown deaths.

Crust, these 2 guys, some of the list- around 15 kills by Tomura

Since the city was evacuated, no one died besides a few heroes.

Tomura didn't kill anyone else during his fight against Endeavor and Izuku, so now we move on, with a kill count of around 61 visible kills and hmm.. 8,000 off screen?

I won't count any kill during the Tartarus scape since these where clearly by All for One

So we move to Stars and Stripes! Since here Tomura and AFO's personality where already half way, i'll count thise ones too. So more 2 kills here

Then the final arc begins, but despite the absolute mess the fight against Tomura in the UA cage was- it had no deaths besides Bakugou.

FINAL COUNT:

On screen kills by Tomura: 61 kills

Kills counting ShigAFO: around 64

Kills counting off-screen deaths: around 1,000 to 9,000

Bonus: Nine lol

Ngl, owned too

Now you're probably thinking: uhh- that's still a lot of people.

But the thing is, he killed much less than it looks like, literally all kills where out of self defense or necessity, very few in the list where innocent people, the vast majority are villains, and he never killed for pleasure or in a act of sadism.

Actually, he had very good reasons to kill each one of them.

Yes yes, he did attempt to kill much more, but he didn't.. Even if he did kill "millions" because of Deika- he's still not the monster he is portrayed by some.

Like come on, if you had an entire city trying to kill you, you wouldn't try to defend your self in your way to rescue a friend? If someone threatened you and had brutally killed your friend and taken another's arm, you wouldn't feel joy in vengeance?

Anyways, Tomura is innocent

"The reason why he killed them or how he felt doesn't change the fact he killed them!"

If so same for Gran Torino's "killing is a form of saving" ass!

Like come on, look at him!

Anyways, my job here is done 😌

[nyc3]

One thing that is now unfair to ask is...what is Nine's name? Look hori treated him as an afterthought but his lack of origins works better than the comical twnko's origins.

Yes his family was all killed thanks to him but ...I can't help to think that scene was too ridiculous.

We never saw anyone mentioned them again, not even shig. (He remembers them in MVA and we do see the disgusting human puppet hori flay around) But that's it.

So Nine...

Im not one of those people who think a new character needs to be related to a pre stabelished one. Nine doesn't need to be a Todoroki, Shimura or hell even a lost Midoriya (hahahahahahaha as if hori would care for this family)

But ....imagine if Nine was related to Oboro, somehow, wouldn't that be interesting?

Maybe, maybe not.

Oboro's character became a thing to turns Aizawa into a better character...and fails. Kuro was sacrificed for nothing.

The thing about Shigaraki/Tenko backstory is that it feels... a bit overdramatic?

Well we can say that about his whole character, but the part of his backstory in particular when he kills his family is so exagerated for the sake of shock value that it kinda feels comical.

Horikoshi tried a bit too hard on make MVA feel like the edgier and "different" arc of the series, but the contrast in so big that I can't take it seriously.

Especially when Hori already nailed a dark tone without being super explicit or over the top.

Take the simplicity of Eri's backstory for example:

No blood, no unnecessary violence, just two panels giving a basic idea of what happened to Eri's father and yet the image of those clothes lying on the floor is much more haunting and eerie than the enterity of Shigaraki backstory.

Why Horikoshi stop being subtle with his storytelling?

...

Anyway going back to Nine real name, or the lack of one, I think it's interesting how that aspect of his character adds to the underlying theme of how AFO and Garaki dehumanize people, especially the ones that are part of their experiments.

We know very well how AFO doesn't view other human being as persons but rather objects that belong to him. This starts with his very own twin brother, which name Yoichi means something like "my first possesion".

And just like Nine, number 6 from Vigilantes was a child which whole life was modeled by AFO. They both are just numbers without a real name.

In this case the idea is presented even more explicitly because Six was a child who suffered some kind of amnesia and couldn't even view himself as a normal human with a face.

He even died as a monster without ever know if he had an identity outside being the number 6.

It's funny how you mention the idea of Nine and Shirakumo being connected somehow, as isn't the first time I've hear that.

It's interesting notice how they share this common theme about sky and clouds as part of who they are (Nine's name also is supposedly a reference to the term "cloud nine") both Nine and Oboro are individuals willing to sacrifice their own lifes for others, and ironically both of them ended being experimented by Dr Garaki.

I even have the headcanon of Kurogiri being the "Number 7" in this line of experiments were Nine and Six belong, as sort of missing link between Six and the sentient nomus.

I probably should make a post later explaining better this idea.

And yes for Horikoshi, Shirakumo was just a diposable character to make Aizawa look cooler and more edgy.

While the author of Vigilantes clearly invested a lot of effort on making Oboro a real and memorable character which complements Aizawa rather than just being an accesory. But that topic deserves it's own post as well.

P.S: I have an idea of what real name we could give to Nine, but I keep it for me at least for the moment.

[man-monsters-and-aliens]

you know how i feel abt the series but i will say. there is something *Incredibly* charming about the episode title cards, do you have any favorites, by chance? ( mmonsters-vs-aliens)

I wouldn't say favourites cause I didn't even remember any that stuck out to me (except TFOAE), there was one sequence of cards that did but can't remember which ep it was

some were just models and some eps they don't even have anything interesting going on

vornicarn was swag for the alien (1979) reference but I won't count it

these are super cute yet relatively simple, 10/10

interesting choice of lighting/shading, good focus & use of colour, on a scale of adorable to goes super hard, 10/10

the lineart for DTM is unique to only this ep

very scary! 9/10

not a fan of Dr Cutter just. standing there (sorry you have to see this narb 💀) but damn her shadow is awesome (her model is also despicable to my eye)

for such a sick card WLRO is one of the worser eps

tell me YOUR faves!

[evelynpr]

For the character ask game can I pick toga :)

I'm gonna be very honest in these, and I might disappoint, but here it is-

My first impression - I started watching BNHA around 5 years ago? It's hard for me to remember what exactly was my first impression of Toga, but back then I really didn't care for her much. Honestly, I just found it quite problematic that the only main female villain in BNHA is an overly cute school girl who fits the "cute yandere" trop to a t when the rest of the male villains look a lot more serious and scary.

My impression now - Perfectly honest- I really only started paying attention to her because of Ochako. I was, and still am, a massive Ochako fan, and when I heard that she suddenly had a massive romantic and tragic battle and narrative with Toga after leaving the fandom for 3-4 years, I was immediately deadly curious. - Even with how much I resonate with her story and character, I generally have a big ick for blood as a whole (surprising for a very loud tgck fan I know). Right now, she's my poor desperate little baby who really really needs love and therapy (affectionate). I wish we got to see more of her regular girly side, like caring for the LOV especially Magne and Twice.

Favorite thing about that character - That her entire story is a mentally ill and queer narrative. Like I said earlier, I actually have a big ick for blood and the cutesy yandere trope. But the thing that gets me about Toga is that she is the most openly bisexual/pansexual character in the series, very clearly mentally struggling, and both thrives and suffers because of her choices and circumstances. - She's such a tragic and hopeful character that represents so many weird people like me that I can't help but be attached. She makes me want to embrace my more girly and selfish side, and screams at me that I should live my life how I want to. - I can't leave out Ochako from this part. Holy shit the themes and story about their relationship makes my heart both break and soar so bad it genuinely hurts. Save people by understanding them, helping them, listening to them. Show someone you can be selfish, that they deserve love, that she deserve a chance. It's so much it punches me to a million sobbing pieces.

Least favorite thing - For the 3rd time now...not into blood. I don't like its taste, look, and the mere thought of bleeding genuinely grosses me out. - You probably think "How in the world are you attached to her then?" well its because I understand that Toga's "blood" is also a representation of her violent tendencies and love. I see it much more as a narrative device for her character and themes.

Favorite line/scene - Shocking, but I actually have not read the manga. I can't say what my favorite scene is just yet because I want to truly witness it animated, when the time comes. - If you want an answer well, from the anime so far, it probably is when she gets her quirk awakening in MVA, or when she confesses to Izuku in the final war (mostly because that scene is so damn hilarious, tragic, and important).

Favorite interaction that character has with another - ...I mean obviously it's Ochako lmao? Every interaction is a fight of ideals and love- which suddenly morphs into a way of challenging each other- then growing into understanding and loving each other. That is. Just insane. How the fuck did BNHA's writers come up with this.

A character that I wish that character would interact with more - For the sake of my Tgck Bkdk square, I really wished for her to have interacted with Bakugou at least once. Just see how one person's violence and power was praised, while the other was abandoned and shamed. How they both have a strong squishy-faced freak they're obsessed with, and also obsessed with them, even if they don't feel like they deserve it. - Oh and, definitely more LOV random shenanigans and bonding time. I wish I was able to get more into them ngl, but I never really felt that sadly. Man...

Another character from another fandom that reminds me of that character - UHHH??? I genuinely have no idea. I am drawing at a blank I am so sorry T__T This is the firsts time I have ever been interested in this kind of character??? Really sorry-

A headcanon about that character - This is kind dark so be warned - I got this idea from a fic and now I can't stop thinking about it. Toga always wanted her love to be reciprocated or understood by someone. Anyone. I feel that she was taken advantage of and abused by horrible people in her earlier days of running away...especially since she's a young teenage girl in a cute school uniform. I am so sorry...

A song that reminds of that character - I am working on a Togachako playlist! It's about both of their characters respectively and also their story and relationship, but here's the ones about Toga specifically! - Hayloft II (THIS ANIMATIC), The Red Means I Love You (obviously lol), Butcher Vanity, Hero (Charlie Puth, mostly tgck), Pink Pony Club (Chappell Roan, early Toga)

An unpopular opinion about that character - She's not the possessive type, and she's really very open to people she loves loving other people at the same time, polymarous kind. This is probably a pretty common hc already tho since she says this repeatedly? - Her most common form of love is a very impulsive/sexual/admiration/attracted kind. You could even relate this to hypersexuality (something I struggle with) where the moment you find something you're into on someone, you body and brain genuinely go kinda out of control. I project onto her my own inability to hold and control these kinds of feelings at times, but Toga is quite the manifestation of my fears.

Favorite picture - I love it when a character's mask peels off. Toga genuinely angry, upset, and just not smiling is so fascinating and beautiful to me in a "It's okay my dear, show all of you, stop hiding" (Ochako might disagree with me on this tho, since she loves her smile lmao-)

[itsnothingofinterest]

just watched my villain academia recently and wow does twice’s ep make everything so much fucking worse.

he was orphaned in *middle school* which would make him anywhere from 12-14 ish, and then because of a motorcycle accident that *wasn’t his fault* he got a criminal record, got fired from his job, became homeless, and spiraled from there.

all of the lov (except compress who's just an unapologetic evil bastard and i love him so much for it) is the result of hero societies failings. yet hori turns them into saturday morning cartoon mustache twirling villains, as if they aren’t extremely complex characters.

god i just can’t stand watching him throw away character after character with so much potential out the fucking window so that he can suck bakugo’s dick.

anyway im just so sick of this fucking series

I know right? It’s really frustrating because for MVA and even some big parts of the 1st war arc were so interesting partially because the villains were really shown to be right for so much of their positions. Almost naturally so since, while these were rarely new elements to the world, the League were the first to care about any bigger picture regarding them. And the bigger picture tended to say their existence was society's/the heroes' fault, their justice system is obviously flawed if Twice got thrown to the street with a criminal record through no wrong of his own among other examples, and so it was up to the next generation of heroes to make up for it all and do better.

It was a cool set-up.

But then some sleight of hand happened to take the coolness away, the societal issues that created the League get dropped in favour of more personal issues like Toga’s need for love, Dabi’s need for attention, you could count Spinner’s need for affirmation, and of course Shigaraki’s sudden self-loathing over his quirk. Also a lot of their plans are suddenly a lot more self-destructive and/or cartoonishly evil in ways that don’t obviously benefit them. And so now they don’t need to be saved from the flaws in the system that created them, which therefore go unaddressed, but instead from themselves/their hurt feelings/another, more evil villain who's far more 1-dimensional and can just get punched out or blasted down by the cool heroes relatively easily.

As you said, It's such wasted potential.

[dabistits]

when do u think bnha became unsalvageable?

i think bnha might've always been slated to become that way from the get-go, with the protagonist being an aspiring hero and heroes being superpowered cops.......

that said while copaganda shows will always be suspect to me, i'm willing to watch them for entertainment value if not moral backbone lol. so i think bnha could've still been a somewhat fun show about these kids going to superpowers school and learning how to use superpowers better. the major failure points that stand out to me are:

mva

endemption

i'll talk about #1 first since i'm sure that's gonna be the most controversial coming from me lol. dgmw i actually love mva and i think it's one of the better-written (if not best) arc of the series, BUT it was so good and set up so many expectations that the series ultimately just could not live up to. mva was very strong imo because, in giving its villains depth, it dug into the fabric of bnha's society and tried to illustrate, like, how did this happen, why are these people villains? and by and large, the answer to that was poverty and the societal alienation of vulnerable populations (children, abuse victims, mentally ill ppl, queer ppl, "mutants," etc.)

and this was good and interesting but this was Also Bad because mva added complexity to the world of bnha but that was ultimately a complexity that horikoshi couldn't execute. i'm not interested in a story that makes systemic change secondary to scolding marginalized people for reacting to how they've been treated. i would even prefer some kind of liberal "change from the inside" story that at least focuses more on the theme of systemic flaws than one that focuses on how the people systemically wronged are actually the bad ones and we have to fight them for 400 chapters.

look, i'll even drop the whole "the lov did nothing wrong" bit for a moment. sure, bnha doesn't have to throw away all believability and have everyone forgive the lov just like that, but it's always going to be fucked to me that bnha's story and fans are obsessed with the lov ~owning their crimes~ when (takes a deep breath) the government ordered the clandestine executions of people who would make the hero system look bad. and the story barely wastes any breath talking about the corruption of the hero system and higherups lol. which brings me to the second point.

endeavor started out as a character that embodied everything that was wrong with quirk/hero society. he was one of those very early downsides we saw of bnha's world: the publicity/public image of heroes superseding the contents of their actual character, and the value of quirks superseding the value attributed to their human bearers, to the point that domestic abuse and rape is seen as an option to make one's genes/one's power stronger. this was a good set-up! i was intrigued! but again, horikoshi couldn't follow through.

endeavor's character eventually shifted away from making a point about hero society to becoming one of the emotional focal points of the story, especially in the todofam subplot. "waaah tumblr user dabistits you just hate when people change for the better!" and yeah i do kind of hate how an abuser having sad feelings immediately gets him prioritized over the people who suffered because of him tbh! but personal feelings aside, i would say that endemption really marked the point where bnha swung hard into depicting characters as good or bad not through the actions they take but through their alignment with either heroes or villains.

endeavor and hawks are the most obvious in this. in contrast to the obsession of making sure villains repent and "do the right thing," endeavor/hawks' actions are either forgivable, pitiable, or simply necessary. several years of spousal abuse and at least 10 years of child abuse don't earn endeavor so much as a lecture (no, being told to stop being pathetic doesn't count), and hawks' execution of twice—not much different than lady n's executions—is dismissed through a press conference and never addressed again. there's a distinct line drawn between "heroes (who sometimes do bad things!)" and "villains," such that anyone aligned with the heroes is deemed to be "good, deep down," and generally more morally superior or redeemable than villains. consider the fact that someone like gentle (youtube crimes) or aoyama (blackmailed 16 y.o) were held to higher standards of proving themselves than someone like endeavor or hawks. i'm not gonna lie, these story beats are all uncomfortably real, except that when real live people do endeavor or hawks things i see them unquestionably as counterrevolutionary enemies, not protectors of the peace lol.

the decision to have endeavor transition from minor antagonist to a major supporting character was, imo, a big turning point in the ethos of bnha. i think in many ways it was a symbolic shift, but also a mechanical one in terms of how the story was going to be told going forward. the problems about hero society that were continually introduced at the beginning (ostracizing quirkless people and ppl with "dangerous" quirks, the valuation of powerful quirks over people, "fake heroes," all of the lov stuff) took a backseat to Stopping The Big Bads, with marginalization as flavor text instead of a genuine area of contention between heroes. think about the difference in deku confronting endeavor during the sports festival compared to how all other injustices were dealt with afterward... because the readers have to be convinced that endeavor is Ultimately Good, the heroes stopped challenging him, and in stopping challenging him, they lost one of the major ways through which the heroes of the series wrestled with societal issues.

but whereas the way the heroes handled corruption and violence within their own ranks became simplistic and non-confrontational, with mva, so many aspects of dealing with and interrogating the status quo and societally-accepted injustices were pushed onto the villains instead. but since the villains must be defeated as villains, despite being the main carriers of social critique now, their messages were also torn down/deprioritized in favor of enacting bnha's vision of a cohesive conclusion wherein the villains answer for their crimes. so instead of making the heroes challenge anything, hori shifted this burden onto the villains, in the process making most of them some kind of vulnerable/marginalized and with opinions on the matter, only to ultimately assert that the issues they raise are less narratively important than a restoration of peace.

[ihatetaxes99]

I'll say it: I love the MLA, but they probably shouldn't have existed. Not in their canon state, at least.

Everything about their presence after their introductory arc only really serves to make everything to do with storytelling harder for Horikoshi. Let's remove the League from the equation for the moment. The MLA has Geten and Re-Destro, implied to be two of the more powerful characters in the series (and neither of whom were actually defeated during the MVA arc, with the latter only standing down due to losing his own faith in the battle), and that's without getting into the 100k+ foot soldiers they've got kicking around. Curious and Skeptic are fairly useless in regards to combat proficiency, but Hanabata provides another strong support pillar of the army. Even before you add in Shigaraki, Twice and Dabi, the MLA is overpowered.

And what did this lead to? A massively tangled operation where half of its members had to be unsatisfyingly knocked out off-screen because Horikoshi had accidentally made them too powerful to be conceivably beaten. And to be fair, it's a trap I fell into myself the last time I wrote them. The Liberation Army are very difficult to make threatening, because you have to gimp them in order for the heroes to not get immediately blown to pieces like a small child throwing a rock at the Berlin Wall. As it stands, they're too good.

So, in all this smug retrospect, what would I have done? Well, it's something I'm toying with for something I'm working on, but my main idea would be to cut the MLA down. Make them a real underground faction of extremists. They still have their primary figureheads, but that aside, give them a couple of hundred loyalists spread throughout the country, not a couple of hundred thousand. They're powerful, but they're low in number, with many of their forces consisting of people like Yotsubashi's private security team and Hanabata's party subordinates. Much like the IRB at the turn of the twentieth century prior to the Easter Rising, they're basically an old boys' club, sitting around and reminiscing on when the group had power. Their schemes have to be more subtle, more focused on the - ahem - hearts and minds of the public. Things like Detnerat's products and commercials, Curious' articles, Hanabata's proposed policies, they all subtly push a pro-Liberation message. They warm the general population up to the idea, they take advantage of the Commission's failures, they engineer public crises from behind the scenes to weaken people's belief in the current system. What if, for example, it had been the MLA who had secretly encouraged Overhaul's production of a Quirk-erasing drug, in the hopes that it would cause further unrest and fear that they could manipulate to turn public sentiment against the current government? What if they had provided funding to the League post-All for One's arrest in order to stir up more trouble, instead of getting in a big fight and losing half their men to Shigaraki? What if the UA traitor had been acting on orders from the MLA, who then relayed the information to the League for the purpose of essentially using them as their pawns to attack UA on their behalf? A secret society pulling the strings, and using the League as their unwitting patsies, behind the scenes to sow distrust in the Commission and set them up for their eventual failure. The final arc could have been less about whatever the hell it was about and more about the League finally realising what was going on and having a massive three-way battle between the heroes, the villains and the MLA who finally take to the streets after spending pretty much the whole story scheming and manipulating and building up their forces.

It's all fanfic stuff, and it's so easy to point and gape and go "I would do that so much better!" but I honestly think the secret society working to undermine the government angle would have been more interesting and made for a more threatening faction than a massive revolutionary army which gets immediately crumpled during their first major battle with the heroes.