#more tragic than ferrus and fulgrim

[mothiir]

writing proper fic still eluding me so here is a list of how i think the primarchs would respond to their sons trying to romance human women:

Sanguinius - he isn’t thrilled about the idea, not because he thinks that love and romance is a bad thing — quite the opposite — but because he knows the tragic fate many of his sons will suffer. What human woman can survive the tribulations of the red thirst? How many of his boys will end up tearful and repentant after their control slipped, and they hurt the human they love? Mortals are so fragile — it is better to act as their guardian than their lover. Still, if he were to find out that one of his sons was seeing a mortal, he would simply gently suggest that the son in question take every proper precaution — ultimately, the choice must belong to them.

Vulkan - yes! great idea! Please do have relationships with humans - have children, rear families. When the time comes for them to pass, mourn them, but celebrate the life you were blessed to share with them. You cannot call yourself the protectors of humanity if you do not partake in it. Salamanders live amongst their human families, and relish in the kinship and love this brings them. Vulkan has given away many a Salamander in marriage.

Ferrus Manus - sex is self-indulgent nonsense. Be better. He is not the sort of man to give his sons relationship advice — nor are they the type to ask it — so he never makes an official proclamation against having mortal lovers, because Iron Hands are far too sensible to even consider it (rumours that they replace their dicks with ceramite remain unaddressed).

Horus - The Luna Wolves are — uh — enthusiastic about their involvement with humanity. Unlike Vulkan, Horus discourages lengthy attachments — have a fling if you must, have several (don’t let those flings find out about each other), but don’t try and settle down. Luna Wolves are soldiers, designed to conquer distant stars in their father’s name. One day, they will be able to plant roots in rich earth, and rear sons of their own. But not now. Not yet.

Leman Russ — Humanity is a beautiful thing, and its daughters are more beautiful yet. Leman doesn’t begrudge his sons their dalliances, nor does he discourage them from wedding — he just asks that they remember that their first duty is to the Allfather, and the pack. As long as they don’t get any ideas about sneaking off somewhere to retire, everything is fine. Russ welcomes his son’s wives to his fires — and, if they’re amenable, to his furs.

Fulgrim — much like Sanguinius, Fulgrim has complicated feelings about human women. He’s been married four times, loved each wife dearly, and had to watch them die of one ailment or another. He wants to spare his sons the torment he felt, but he also doesn’t want to deny them the full range of human experience. He ends up encouraging them to cultivate an artistic appreciation for romance — a sort of courtly love, where they paint pictures of the woman they like, and write poetry, but never actually engage in anything too direct. If he keeps their love aesthetic and sterile and distant then maybe they can avoid the heart-deep pain that comes from watching your lover perish.

The Lion - are you kidding me? His sons don’t even want to admit that they know what a woman is, just in case he somehow takes it as an insult and they end up banished.

[nevesmose]

Separation 11347

This was, by Trazyn's infallible reckoning, his eleven thousand three hundred and forty-seventh divorce from Orikan. The Diviner, on the other hand, was adamant that it was in fact only their eleven thousand three hundred and forty-sixth. This dispute was what had caused the current divorce.

At first he had settled contentedly into his usual divorce routine, entering his meticulously-preserved time loop of a "Happy Divorce" party plucked from the Terran city-state of Nova Yoruk in early M3 as the Imperium kept its years.

As had been the case so many times before, the Lord of Solemnace basked over and over again in the reassurance of the assembled middle-aged humans that he was indeed so much better off without that asshole in his life, rounding off the festivities with a cake depicting a miniature confectionery figurine of Trazyn using a guillotine on a similarly-constructed sugar-based effigy of Orikan.

It was all very gratifying, and he was certain that when the amusement faded he would return to find Orikan waiting for him apologetically, his eminently bullyable faceplate resembling a weeping juvenile felid.

It was, however, not to be. He returned to the Galleries to find no trace whatsoever of Orikan. He was so disconcerted that he even briefly considered retrieving his much-prized clone of the primarch Fulgrim from stasis, but decided against it. It had, after all, only been a few subjective decades since he had placed the clone into a detailed diorama of the genuine being's final battle with his erstwhile companion Ferrus Manus for enrichment purposes. He had been thoroughly pleased with himself for coming up with entertainment of such realism and, judging by his mute tears of joy, so too was the clone.

What a wonderful caregiver I am, he had thought, jauntily walking away. Perhaps he and Orikan should adopt, which when used by Trazyn the Infinite is a word which means kidnap, an Astartes or Aeldari together.

Time passed and with no sign of Orikan's return, Trazyn felt it justifiable to seek other outlets for his multifarious urges. After exhausting every category on Cronhub and getting banned from Nemesorindr, he arose to find that the necrodermis of his lower limbs had spontaneously reformed itself into the shape of a baggy, ill-maintained example of the Terran garment known as sweatpants.

This could not stand. He resolved that he would start A Project, an undertaking of such majesty and glory that no one, least of all that cycloptic fool Orikan, could deny him the attention he deserved.

After brief forays into stop-motion animation and painting miniature Space Marines (accomplished by shrinking normal Astartes through arcane technosorcery and ignoring the resulting high-pitched noises as he applied pigment of a much too viscous consistency to their battleplate) his thoughts returned once more to his display of the battle between the primarchs on Isstvan V.

Theirs was a tragic tale of heartfelt companionship severed by corruption and betrayal. He himself had mentally projected several hundred phaeronfics about them to the great repository of the Necron race whose name, although untranslatable into any other language, was best rendered as The Sarcophagus-Belonging-To-Us-Alone, and some of them had even received multiple scarabs of approval from the discerning audience entrapped there forever.

Surely, he reasoned with the confidence of a being who had long since activated the developer console of his necrodermis body and manually increased its confidence, intelligence and charisma variables to 100, this meant that no one other than he could restore their friendship.

And so, in single-minded pursuit of compassion and friendliness, the Archaeovist and his forces wrought a swathe of destruction across the galaxy.

A foray into the Eye of Terror itself resulted in the capture of Fulgrim through the use of a vast two-pronged stick to pin the writhing daemon prince to the ground where he had been basking one day, while the sacrifice of his entire collection of ancient Terran doujinshis to the haemonculi of Commorragh itself had given him forbidden knowledge sufficient to wrest back the very soul of Ferrus Manus himself and place it into a suitably prepared necron host body via the biomorphic resonance of the necrodermis which had coated his hands in life.

Finally, the moment of glory came. The daemon Fulgrim and the metallically resurrected Ferrus Manus were placed into the same containment chamber and -

It was not at all what Trazyn had hoped. After a monumental bout of hand-to-hand combat lasting for hour upon hour, the two primarchs had settled into an uneasy stalemate, in the sense that Fulgrim was currently coiled around a light fixture on the ceiling and Ferrus had run out of objects to throw at him.

"You're even uglier now than you were when you had flesh," Fulgrim hissed venomously.

"And you were more of a snake then than you are now," Ferrus shot back, the frozen inexpressiveness of his necrodermis faceplate matching the famously stone-faced countenance he had displayed in life.

Fortunately Trazyn, who never made a mistake of any kind whatsoever, had prepared for such an eventuality. A concealed slot opened in the ceiling of the containment chamber, dislodging Fulgrim from his perch, and through the opening there descended a vast garment of woven silver-metallic fabric, emblazoned with inscrutable Necron symbols and sized in such a way as to accomodate the bodies of both primarchs.

"This is your get along shirt," Trazyn said, his voice amplified throughout the containment chamber. "You will wear it."

[c-u-c-koo-4-40k]

Not story more ramble but I will still tag.

@egrets-not-regrets @bleedingichorhearts @kit-williams @sleepyfan-blog @barn-anon

Spoilers for Warhammer Fulgrim Lore.

I think the husbandry fandom has missed a profound opportunity for some juicy conflict!

So we have some general agreed upon notions for how certain legions react to Husbandry Terra. Now obviously not all of a single space marine type behave the same way but there be trends.

Salamanders, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists: these groups generally accept bonds and human companionship as they had decent human contact in their original timeline.

Then you've got the grumps who love the attention but getting them to admit it is like Pulling Teeth: Night Lords, Iron Hands and Iron Warriors.

But we have been missing out! On a delightfully painful side of our favorite premadonnas. The Emperor's Children.

Now they and their sire Fulgrim are often stereotyped as such. Elegant, pompous, snooty and post heresy they go completely mask off a drive full into unbound freak territory.

But their story is much more tragic than a spoiled brat leading other spoiled brats into serving the God of overdoing things.

Fulgrim isn't spoken of as much in terms of being screwed over, but looking closer he really was.

Shot to an awful industrial planet where he watched his adopted family struggle to feed him let alone themselves. It would give anybody a complex.

Needing to be useful, needing to contribute, needing to not be a burden.

And once the The Big E showed up it didn't get much better.

His sons? Suffer a geneflaw that gives them astarte cancer. He not only loses many of them, but has to make due with what he has left. Meaning no matter how well trained, he just can't conquer planets at the rate dear old dad wants him to.

His brothers? Got there own issues and probably don't take Fulgrim's struggles seriously. He's just at that spot of "Wow that sucks," and "But the others have it worse.' He probably doesn't feel like he can talk deeply to anyone.

So Fulgrim does what many unloved children do, in fact he does the same thing as Perturabo, Pushes Himself to The Breaking Point.

In Fulgrim's case, any failures he blames completely on himself. Where Perty lashes out, Fulgrim turns inward.

Until he just can't take it anymore. He decides he's going to finally be selfish. Commit fully to the pleasures and pain so he never has to remember the agony he feels, that he will Never, be good enough

Heck killing Ferrus probably cemented that feeling in him. I'm not worth anything, so why bother trying to be good. Why not just be the absolute Worst.

Heavy stuff. But this leads me to my main musing.

In 40k the sins of the father very much affect the sons.

So my proposition is...you think other space marines are clingy? They hold not a Candle to an Emperor's Child. Especially one post heresy.

If you show an EC that they can be open, vulnerable, Imperfect, around you, and you don't immediately turn tail and run from the baggage, You Will Never Escape.

They don't just crave intimacy, they crave stability, affection, LOVE.

And if you give them any indication you'll supply it, they will Never let themselves be cut off.

[wyn0rrific]

post heresy vitus designs !

lore dump/design explanation under cut since it's lengthy

Bad End ("What If?/AU): Even after seeing his primarch with the blood of his own brother on his hands, Vitus chooses to stay with Fulgrim. This eventually leads to him falling to Chaos and joining his legion (though its more of him "worshipping" Fulgrim rather than Slaanesh). While apothecaries aren't necessarily "needed" in Chaos legions, Vitus goes back and forth between working for Fabius (which most of the time resulted in him returning to Fulgrim with scars from "experiments") and staying with Fulgrim. Eventually, the primarch requests Vitus to permanently remain by his side as his presence is "comforting" in a way (maybe it reminds him of the good times? no one will ever know).

Good End (Current Timeline): After seeing the tragic death of Ferrus Manus in the hands of his own primarch, Vitus flees the battlefield and ends up running into loyalist astartes. He is captured and taken in for questioning where he proves his innocence by mutilating himself, removing his own eye to show how far he'd go for the protection of the people. He's proven loyal and years pass until he ends up becoming the Chief Apothecary for the Imperial Fists successor chapter, the Sons of the Phoenix. He becomes much more reclusive than before, remaining faceless in the public eye and constantly modifying his appearance (cutting/dyeing his hair, self mutilation, etc) so that his geneseed is forever hidden. He doesn't care for the Imperium, but rather for his pledge to serve until death and to destroy any sight of Chaos for what they did to his dearest friend.

[gh0s7-704]

Oh for sure

Fruity gets that divine retribution via Vortex grenade

If GW is ever desperate enough to hire me as a black library author, I am going to canonically name a blood angels sergeant Destiel.

Make sure he's banished to the super warp at the end of the novel

[zombie-techpriest]

My Primarch Top List

This is just my Personal Opinion!!

From least to favorite.

18. Lorgar   I can‘t say that his story isn‘t interessting, BUT I have a BIG Problem with Religious Fanatics and because, he is an Asshole. Thanks Lorgar, you ruined the Imperium (Sort of) -10/10

17. Mortarion Simple Problem: I can‘t stand Body odor or bad smells in general and he is the embodiment of bad smell and everything disgusting. His Character… no...Just no… But like with Lorgar, his lore is interessting and the design kinda cool but NO!!! Sorry Morti but you STINK!! 0/10

16. Lion El‘Johnson Just...boring!! He is the one I always keep forgetting that he exist in the First place! I like his legions, I mostly like Asmodai that guy is so free of all humor, he is Funny. But no chance for Lion, he is boring. 1/10

15. Konrad Curze That man is my Teenage years: Cringy, Egdy and greasy hair and because he reminds me too much about Cringy Edgelords I can‘t stand him. Its the point of Edgy that stops being cool and just being Cringe. That whole Vampire thing is meh..no. Not anymore. My 15 Year old Self would have LOVED him, but now, doubled in age, he is just Cringe. 1/10

14. Horus Same as with Lion, he is just BORING!!! Even his Design is Boring! A bit Higher because, I cant forget a guy as important to the plot as Horus and I like the FAN made Stuff about him and Sanguinius. 3/10

13. Alpharius/Omegon Cool idea, not too many informations about them. I wish there would be more. But the Idea is great XD Want more 5/10

12. Rogal Dorn Well since „If the emperor had a text to Speech Device“ I like him more, but Sorry, I‘m Team Perturabo, so yeah. Also I Dislike his colors and these Armors his Sons are wearing. 5/10

11. Leman Russ The Wolf, the Space Corgy, the Emperors personal Lapdog and Trashman who does everything without asking too many questions…I have no problems with Leman BUT a bit more Brain would work Wonders…Still, I like the idea and I like wolves.6/10

10. Jaghatai Khan Design, Hairstyle, Fighting style, BEARD!! Everything Check! Cool dude, I like a man with a nice beard XD Every Primarch should have a beard! (Yes Fulgrim too!) 7/10

9. Ferrus Manus I like nearly everything about him. Many people say he isn‘t interessting, but hey, he died pretty Early before the real shit hits the fan, so imagine what COULD have been with him around longer. Also he is kinda the Techpriest version of a Primarch and...well, I love Techpriests. Also, nobody can tell me, Fulgrim cloned him to play chess with him. We all know whats really going on. 7/10

8. Fulgrim Close to his best buddy is Fulgrim, the pretty one. To be honest, I like his Demonform more than his human Form and also Slaneesh is my Favorite Chaos god, thats mostly why Fully is so high up here^^ Storys and Design is almost Aways good here, so I don‘t wanna repeat myself too often. 7/10

7. Roboute Still unsure how to pronounce his last name, So I just call him Rob, or Captain America, because thats who he reminds me of (Guess it was on Purpose) This spot in my list is Less about him and more about the wonderful, the best, the grumpiest but still so Awesome CHAPTERMASTER!!!! Seriously Marneus Calgar is a 10/10 while Roboute is a 7/10. 

 6. Vulkan Everybody loves Vulkan. The Teddybear of the group, the big strong one with the soft heart. That being said, I know he can be badass and I wanna see/read even more Badass Stuff. And he won my heart as he smashed Konrad with his hammer XD 8/10

5. Sanguinius Angelboy was always the prettier one, between him and Fulgrim in my eyes. Also I love the pure Irony he embodys by looking like an Angel, a religious figure in a time that forbids religion and his wings are part of a Mutation, but Mutants are hunted down. Love me a good Irony XD Also his Story is pretty impressive, his relationship to Horus made it all even more tragic and I love to draw him, so….8/10

4. Corvus Corax First question I have: What came first? The Primarch or the Band? And yes there is a Band named Corvus Corax XD He is like Konrad but in Cool and less Edgy. I like his legion, his Design and this man is ONLY a man with a beard and Yes TTS, because of that I love him 9/10

3. Magnus Magnus is the reason I like Warhammer 40K. He was the very first Character I ever saw and is the reason I got into it. Also my very first Primarch Figure I build and painted. His Story, kinda tragic, his powers, really awesome and his wings are prettier than Sanguinius‘ Wings! (fight me on that if you want!) 9/10

2. Perturabo Something about him is just Fascinating. So much potential but gets always ignored by his Father, no wonder he got grumpy and Angry. He is the strongest and smartest of ALL primnarch but NO, Daddy prefers Rogal over him and I understand his displeasure very much. That man needs a hug. A BIG Hug! 9,5/10

1. Angron Angry boy is my number 1. I LOVE HIM!!! His tragic Backstory makes me wanna hug him, even though I know he would kill me. Used and Abused by his owners and later by his Brother Lorgar, Angron needs somebody who loves him. And I wanna give him All the love he deserves!! 10000/10 My Baby!!

[relax-and-read-on]

My top 18 primarch, in descending order.

Bcs I want yell about my boys and everyone has to accept that traitor primarch are just Build Different. Btw- if anyone wants me to drop my headcanons about... Anything primarch related, or just want me yelling about narrative and such, drop in my ask lmao.

18. - Lion el'Johnson: A bastard. A fucking bastard. I made an entire post on why his story is terrible. He make ne enraged. God. 0/10, you were not even in the running.

17. - Ferrus Manus: boy your so lucky fanon made you better, because you actually bore me to tears in canon. It's bad when your best attribute is that your bff with someone else. 1/10, at least you TRIED.

16. - Horus Lupercal: My dude. My bro. Why u so boring. Seriously, for the main big bad guy, your so bland... Another case of "his relationship to others are more interesting than his own story." 1/10, for fucking up big E.

15. - Jaghatai Khan: It's not you, it's me. I don't know enough about him and I just can't seem to FIND anything that really hook me to him. Also, his aesthetic don't work for me. 2/10, he seem nice at least.

14. - Alpharius Omegon: Listen you two. I want to like you. I want to enjoy your deal. But I would need to *figure out your fucking story first*. Bastards. Absolute gremlin. They would be out of the contest if they weren't low key funny. 3/10 for trolling potential.

13. - Rogal Dorn: I can ear my gf howling in anger at her fav being so low. But, for all his awkwardness and autistic coding, I just... Don't really vibe with the guy. Also, urg, his color scheme offend me. And I'm a Pert fan. 3/10, mostly so my gf don't yell at me.

12. - Leman Russ: I would like you my dude if your writing did not make me viscerally angry. Also, you fucked over my boy magnus *and for what hu????* No right. He's only this high because fandom save him, and he's stupidly sexy. 4/10 would have a drunk one night stand with.

11. - Mortarion: The deal is, I want to like Morty more. He's aesthetically pleasing and seem to have my type of personality. I just... Can't seem to "get" him, if that make sense? I want to know more about him. I want to like him more. 4/10, you intrigue me.

10. - Sanguinius: I knoooow, perfect angel baby, so low?!? But that's the thing, he's kinda... Too perfect. He's like good white bread. Sure, it's good, but it's still just freaking white bread. Fandom make him a lot more interesting tho. 5/10, I would marry him and divorce him a few ywars later, and it would 100% be me fault.

9. - Angron: Oh Angron. My sweet son. You writing goes from so my of the best to some of the worst. You legitimately had the most tragic story line. You never had a single chance. He has Karn at his side, wich is another 11/10 character. I like him, but he's a bit one note. 6/10, would attempt a one night stand and get murdered for it. Worth it.

8. - Fulgrim: ok we are REALLY hitting the fav bunch now. First of all, our man here is queer coded, wich make me legally obligated to stan him. Second... The DRAMA he being. Third, he's nice (?) to Konrad. Fourth, mf has the Most Dramatic primarch murder with Ferrus. He's larger than life. I'm a bit sad that his fall was not... Better written.... But I adore him, and his army, and his overly emotional queer ass. 7/10, also happen to be the best dressed primarch and I respect the FUCK outta that.

7. - Corvus Corax: It's CROW CROW AYEEE!! The entire concept of the character is too good ngl. Communist sciency sneaky baby white raven and Poe aesthetic?!? Excuse me did someone ask 14 years old me to come up with the concept???? And THEN he become a warp entity to bully Lorgar?!? Seriously, other character deserve cool shit too! 8/10, I kinda want to be him more than I want to sleep with him.

6. - Roboute Guilliman: listen. *Listen*. People are legit sleeping on Roboute. This man?? Is *funny*. It's just that no one realised that he has the best sarcastic humour this side of the eye of terror. He's funny, care about others, and just generally get so DONE about things, it's incredible. I love him in 40k. He's such a good character. 9/10, would make a excellent father to my kids.

5. - Magnus The Red: Magnus. Ohhhh Magnus. Canon and fanon love you so much. You are a wonderful, complete and uther prick. I say this with love. One of the best storyline, for one of the most well loved character. An absolute favorite. My only grip is that sometime he's a bit *too* much... But he still usually likable at the end of the day. 9.5/10, you just don't have that perfect ompf facter.

4. - Lorgar Aurelian: I was raised catholic so I have an excuse!!! Would he gaslight me?? Yes. Do I feel incredible sympathies for a man who wanted to be good and was thrown away by his literal god? Does he has probably what amount to the best narrative is 40k? Also yes to both. Do I think he's sexy? Most definitely. The only reasons he's not higher is that he become kinda stall once he won. 10/10, a story of biblical proportion.

3. - Vulkan: Listen. *Listen*. I'm sorry, but it's REALLY hard to not objectified his sexy himbo ass. God. He has the same energy as those sexy firemen calendar holding puppy's. Like, bro, you have to choose, you can't be a greek god AND the nicest. He's so good, he ascended past the shitty writing he was served. An icon. 11/10, would present him to my parents.

2. - Perturabo: you ever find a character that is like, all the toxic red flag you like and make you whisper "I can fix him"??. This is how I feel about Perturabo. I adore his story. I adore that he make his own misery. That he's a bastard. And that, under all that iron, all he ever wanted was recognitions, love and acceptance. He may bot have the best storyline of 40k, but he certainly has my favorite. I adore him. 1000/10, would marry that toxic man in a heartbeat.

1. - Konrad Curze: My son. My baby gremlin cannibal son. He eat people. He's awful. He doesn't bath. He enjoy suffering. But he's still one of the best written character in 40k. His books, and any Night Lords book for the matters, are wonderful tragedy. It's unreal. He's so wonderful. So tragic. I love him. I want to be his mom. Infinite/10, I don't even want to fuck him that's HOW MUCH I love him.

[clawcommanderabsinthe]

Because @particularcustodian did it.

Absinthes opinions on the Primarchs

1. Lion: "High and mighty number 1 who was outclassed by Horus. Not much of a Number 1 now huh?"

2. N/A

3. Fulgrim: "One of the few Uncles I like and respect"

4. Perturabo: "A madman from what Pete told me. Absolute Bastard who does unspeakable things. Also ugly as fuck"

5. Khan: "He loved to go fast. Something i can respect."

6. Leman Russ: "Wolf King? More like Stray King judging from his smell"

7. Rogal: "Played too much Minecraft"

8. Night Haunter: "Fuck this Asshole. He was a monster that ruined my life"

9. Sanguinius: "I hate him for not killing Curze when he had the chance"

10. Ferrus: "Never met him. Didn't even see his death because i wasn't present on the Istvaan battles"

11: N/A

12. Angron: "His story is tragic and shows what a monster the emperor truly was"

13. Guillibitch: "Traitor, Killer, Liar, Coward. Guilliman was everything he accused my brothers and me of. I hate him with every inch of my body for eternity."

14. Mortarion: "Smelly bastard man"

15. Magnus: "Smart. Made some mistakes in his lifetime but ultimately had only good intentions. Tragic"

16. Horus: "Hahahahaha Bald"

17. Lorgar: *throws Wasps through Warp portal* "Bitch"

18. Vulkan: "Met him once when Curze was torturing him. I felt bad for him so i smuggled a piece of bread to him. He didn't spit on me or anything but thanked me. He had more honor than any other Primarch"

19. Corax: "My other Father. I may have met him? Maybe not? I don't trust him or his legion but I'm part of them nonetheless."

20. Alpharius Omegon: "Cowards"

[castellankurze]

freestyle rewriting the heresy yet again

because stuff occurred to me last night after that post about the traitor primarchs

if you wanna do the greek tragedy right every traitor primarch should have a primary flaw and a lesson that they fail to learn which overcomes them in the end

Fulgrim is obsession, or ‘perfection is the enemy of the good.’  Fulgrim has been good at everything his whole life. he turned Chemos from a dying shitpit into a vibrant and peaceful world, and when called up to become a warrior and commander he became a damn good one.  He even built up his legion from almost nothing after disaster nearly wiped them out.  But now he’s actually competing with people on his level and it gets to him.  He trains himself almost religiously, struggling to cut away the imperfections.  He expects his legion to always improve; uniformly, to Fulgrim there’s nothing more disgraceful than failing to better yourself, no matter the circumstances, no matter how unreasonable it may be.  It’s what leads him to letting Fabius tinker recklessly with the legion geneseed.  To steal a line from the stewniverse “if I’m not perfect then who am I?”

His friendship with Ferrus is something that should be cast as the anchor on Fulgrim’s flights of fancy.  Ferrus is prosaic and hardworking and responsible, gruff and bluff and earthy; he acts as a balance to Fulgrim’s mounting fanatical belief that he must be the best at everything at all times.  Ferrus’ death can thus be cast as the loss of reason amidst the insanity of the heresy, and it’s what snaps Fulgrim’s last ties to sanity leaving him to plunge himself and his legion wholesale into the service of Slaanesh.

Perturabo is cold logic, or ‘humans aren’t rational.’  Perturabo believes that the ideal being is a Renaissance Man, the great thinker, expert in all fields, unburdened by such petty things as ‘emotion’ or ‘bonds’ or ‘human interest’.  Perturabo believes mankind is best served by shutting up, sitting down, and working.  Human error is a failstate and not to be countenanced.  But people don’t function like that, fundamentally can’t function as if they’re datasheets on a page, and Perturabo gets irked when they don’t.  Because even Perturabo doesn’t function like that, not really - he’s like one of those rationalists who claim they can operate perfectly logically, then throw a screaming tantrum when faced with a conclusion they don’t like.

Perturabo alienates everyone around him - his brethren, his legion, even his homeworld.  To his eyes, they all fail him by not meeting his standards; they’re all too human, too soft.  Perturabo’s insistence that he is incapable of failure is what tragically leaves him wide open to manipulation by Horus, who drives him and the Iron Warriors further and further into their self-dug bitterness and isolationism until Olympia itself revolts and the last nail is pounded into the coffin.

Konrad Curze is vengeance, or ‘fear exists to be conquered.’  Curze took control of Nostromo through savage terrorism, cowing the populace and the gangs and the murderers who preyed on people through shocking acts of murder and barbarism.  He’s so good at it, though, that he never acknowledges the critical flaw - when he leaves Nostromo, he takes away the object of people’s fear, and he never setup a system to govern them without the threat of retaliation.  The Night Lords become staffed with psychopaths and murderers, their unity as a legion slowly fraying.  Curze himself sees torturous visions and nightmares, but it’s all without context, and he doesn’t particularly like wearing the device the Emperor made for him to curb the worst of it because he feels like it makes thinking difficult, so he just does without, becoming more erratic and unpredictable.  In the end he lets himself be done in, with the line ‘death is nothing compared to vindication’ which can arguably taken as a recognition that he had become the kind of monster he once hunted.

Angron is, of course, rage or, to quote tumblr, ‘the hate you feel will warm your heart but leave you cold in the grave’.  Of all the primarchs he’s the one with whom you can most do the cycle of violence thematic.  He’s taken as a slave as a gladiator, leads a revolt, he’s ‘rescued’ by the Emperor on the brink of a crushing defeat, and becomes a rampaging one-man slaughterhouse loosed upon the galaxy.  Angron’s response to his mistreatment is two-pronged: a total rejection of any authority deemed untrustworthy, fueled by his upbringing and the Emperor’s high-handedness, and a colossal hate-on for anything and everything.  Angron wallows in his hate, because for him hate and violence are easy.  The result is that he’s something of a foil for Perturabo - Angron doesn’t think, because he doesn’t like to think.  The World Eaters become a riot of bloodthirsty killers, the librarians and chaplaincy first sidelined and then, at least in the case of the former, eliminated, because they’re not savage enough.

If the plot device of the battle cybernetics (’Butcher’s Nails’ in the BL series) is kept, it’s primary use is as a plot device to show the cycle of abuse - Angron has it forced on him as a child, he forces it upon his legion in turn.  I’ve never been a great fan of the Nails as a plot device (especially in the BL series; it makes things too easy) because it’s not like they’re necessary to push someone into a Khornate rage, but they can work as a tipping point to help push the legion over the edge, especially back by Horus’ manipulations.

Mortarion is resentment, specifically, ‘bitterness is a poison.’  Like how Angron wallows in rage and Curze wallows in the fear he causes, Mortarion wallows in bitter hatred.  He hates the aliens who ruled Barbarus, especially the one who raised him, he hates the poisons of his homeworld itself, he hates the Emperor, and most of all he hates himself.  Mortarion falls into the trap of constantly comparing what we might have been to what we are - if he’d been found by humans. if he’d landed on a different world.  if he’d taken the Emperor up on his offer of aid.  if he didn’t need to wear a damn rebreather.  Nevertheless he surrounds himself with the trappings of his home, poisons and toxins and rad-weapons because they’re his, dammit, and fuck you for trying to take them away from him.  Mortarion keeps slogging onwards with what he’s got because there’s nothing else to him.

Magnus the Red is haughtiness, or ‘ivory-tower intellectualism.’  When you’re willing to learn and Magnus is willing to teach, he’s a great guy.  When he’s willing to learn and you’re willing to teach, he’s a great guy.  But Magnus has been either student or teacher for most of his life, and he has trouble defining a relationship outside those bounds.  He’s that guy who’s an expert on anything he’s studied for five minutes, even though you know he never heard of it six minutes ago.  And if you’re better at him than something, well, it’s something he’s never studied.  Magnus can be exasperating, and, in considering the fate of his legion, dangerous.  The Thousand Sons have a very strong ‘for me and not for thee’ streak to him, delving deeply into study of the warp and sorcerous practices that scream Bad Idea and ignore any attempts to warn them off of it, because they know better.  They’re not going to fall into any traps.  Even the Council of Nikaea, what should be taken as a dire warning to shape up, does little more than throw Magnus into a extended snitfit about the Emperor’s unwillingness to see things his way.

Horus is, of course, ambition, and ‘pride goeth before a fall.’  When the Emperor retreats from the Crusade to, you know, run the Imperium, Horus takes over the campaign trail personally, spending long years heading up the Imperium’s conquest of the galaxy, and as the awards and adoration and adulation and accolades and other a-words pile up he starts getting it into his head that he ought to be the rightful ruler of the whole shebang.  While recovering from wounds on the planet Davin, he’s introduced to the powers of the warp through the warrior lodges there, and so strikes a fateful bargain to sway the greater power of the Imperium’s war machine to his side along with his brothers and topple the Emperor.  He becomes a creature unlike any seen before or since, a font of Chaos power such that even the four great powers seem more held than holders of his leash.  Drunk on power - both the political and very, very real kinds - it’s not until things fall apart aboard his flagship that Horus realizes how very, very badly he’s fouled up.

Lorgar is zealotry, or to be more accurate ‘you can’t externalize self-righteousness.’  Lorgar frames his mindset as a search for truth, but really what he wants is what everybody wants: to be on the right side.  Lorgar’s problem is that he fundamentally cannot internalize the idea that morality is what you do, or to quote Horus Rising ‘we must be mighty because we are right, not right because we are mighty.’  Lorgar grows up steeped in the old faith of Colchis, but when he starts having visions and the existing power structure rejects him, he overthrows it because he knows he’s right, the universe told him he’s right, and when the Emperor shows up he feels validated, and doesn’t even notice how Emps is a little put off by the displays of veneration.  When he goes on the Crusade he turns it into a literal religious crusade, stopping at every planet to fully convert it before moving on.

Eventually the Emperor shows up to kick him into gear, because the Word Bearers are the S L O W E S T legion by far and their ties to other legions are fraying and maybe put down some of the religious stuff.  Lorgar cannot reconcile this discrepancy between the image of the God-Emperor he believes he understood perfectly and the actual Emperor telling him to cool it and basically dissociates himself into next month.  Eventually this one dude named Kor Phaeron who Lorgar’s known since they were kids suggests maybe Lorgar should go back and look at the old faiths again, at which point Lorgar starts digging into a new, and to him, even bigger ‘truth’ than the Emperor.  Then a dude from the Sons of Horus arrives and shit goes buckwild.  But for all the work he’s done, Lorgar still can’t see himself as anything but a vessel for truth, effectively sheltering himself under the Horus and the Chaos gods instead of the Emperor, and when things go sideways on Terra he all but collapses because he can’t understand how shit’s gone south again.

Alpharius, finally, is the inferiority complex, or ‘don’t define yourself by your relationships to others.’  Alpharius is not only the last primarch, he’s the last primarch to be publicly discovered, so late in the Crusade that the Emperor’s already handed the reins over to Horus.  As a result, everyone else has an achievement list as long as their arm and people won’t stop fucking comparing Alpharius and the XX Legion against the others.  Alpharius is an A+ tactical commander, but this shit makes him mad as hell.  He names the XX the Alpha Legion to emphasize how badass they are and drills the shit out of them at the chapter, company, and even squad level until they know their shit backwards and forwards.

For Alpharius, there’s no question of whose side he’s on, because Horus is his big bro and he doesn’t care for the Emperor.  Ironically, despite his keen strategic mind, Alpharius is unable to recognize the bigger picture of how Horus and the other traitor legions are...maybe getting a little sketchy?  He just knows this is gonna be his chance to get back at the folks who shit-talked him and his boys.  Instead of joining the march on Terra, the Alpha Legion goes across the galaxy, harrying the Ultramarines, the Space Wolves, and the Dark Angels.  But unlike Alpharius, Guilliman can stay focused on the big picture, and though delayed it’s ultimately the word of the reinforcements coming in that causes Horus to throw down with the Emperor.  Of course the Alpha Legion goes on their merry way, until the fight at Eskrador where Alpharius finally gets to stick it to Bobby G - he dies, but he’s lured the Ultramarines into an untenable position and ultiamtely they’re the ones who have to retreat.  But afterwards, the blind spot comes back into play, and the Alpha legion ultimately fragments and goes sailing into the Eye of Terror and the other warpstorms along with the other traitor legions because nobody knows enough of the Plan anymore.

this post got longer than i meant it to be but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what can i say even though it’s been almost a decade now since i stopped seriously following 40k books i still have The Thoughts about the little plastic dudes

[coolyo294]

no one asked but i’m gonna rate the forge world primarch models 

1. Konrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords 

It’s very characterful. The pose is evocative of a warrior who strikes from the shadows, and all the little details including the flayed trophies and stitched human skin cloak he’s wearing instantly let you know how fucking deranged and evil he is. The base is also good in this regard - even in the midst of battle Curze stops to flay the skin from his victim’s faces. Altogether a cool model for a Primarch I don’t personally like. 

2.  Angron, Primarch of the World Eaters 

The pose is dynamic, which is a major plus for me. I like the scenic base as well, it gives a sense of his boundless fury that he’s just plowing through space marines like bowling pins. The fact that they chose to paint the Space Marines as World Eaters and Death Guard is irrelevant to the model but I like because it turns the whole thing into a diorama of the betrayal at Isstvan III. 

3 and 4. Ferrus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Hands and Fulgrim, Primarch of the Emperor’s Children 

I’m rating these ones together because the reasons why I like them so much is the fact that they’re essentially a matched set representing the duel on Isstvan V. 

The models contrast well against each other, the lithe beauty of Fulgrim clashing against the industrial brutality of Ferrus Manus. Both are situated amongst the dead from both Legions, but I really like that Fulgrim has a shattered icon of the Emperor’s Children at his feet representing how he lead his sons to ruin with his vainglorious arrogance. Their duel is an incredibly tragic and poignant moment in the opening moves of the Horus Heresy and I feel this pair captures the gravity of it well. 

5. Corvus Corax, Primarch of the Raven Guard

I like the pose and the fact that rubble on his base is deforming out from where his foot is - it gives a sense of weight and dynamism to the model. The Marine on the base is also toppling backwards, creating a small vignette of this poor fool’s last moments after he got ambushed by the Primarch of the 19th Legion

6. Perturabo, Primarch of the Iron Warriors 

Perturabo is a grimy, utilitarian model that emphasizes the spartan simplicity of the Iron Warriors. His armor bears few trappings that don’t serve an overt purpose and his wargear is master crafted to be effective rather than beautiful. There isn’t a whole lot else to say - I just really like him. 

7. Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines 

Normally a pose like that would be a turnoff for me, but considering Guilliman’s character as a master statesman and peerless leader, I feel it functions well. I can easily look at him and imagine that he’s inspecting his warriors on the parade grounds of Maccrage. 

8. Horus, Warmaster and Primarch of the Sons of Horus

He’s kind of like a dark mirror to Guilliman with this model with a similar theme of a leader addressing his soldiers. But rather than the honor and splendor of Guilliman, Horus is depicted in the depths of his treachery in the ruins of an empire he once fought to build. It’s pretty solid. 

9. Leman Russ, Primarch of the Space Wolves

My dislike for this model stems more for my deep personal distaste for Russ and his sons rather than any intrinsic issue with the model itself. It’s fine. 

10. Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons. 

The pose is boring but the sculpted psychic energy erupting from the earth itself is fucking neat. Like Fulgrim and Ferrus, Russ and Magnus are a matched set in the midst of their duel during the Burning of Prospero but they don’t tickle my fancy the same way. 

11. Vulkan, Primarch of the Salamanders 

He’s just kinda... standing there.I also wish his hammer had a longer shaft 

12. Mortarion, Primarch of the Death Guard 

Again, he’s just standing there. Although he does get points for holding Silence like a proper agricultural implement 

13. Alpharius, Primarch of the Alpha Legion 

It’s a fine model but fails utterly in execution. What about this evokes the sense that this guy is a master of stealth, subtlety, intrigue, and espionage? He’s just a dude in ornate armor with a spear. Pass. 

14. Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists. 

Fucking boring. Go flagellate yourself in the pain glove you freak. 

15. Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers 

Eat shit and die you big bald bitch. 

[fuukonomiko]

Just wondering , can you rate the Primarchs in order of who you want to bed?

SORRY ABOUT THE LATE REPLY ANON!!!! I just had to rethink this list over for a good, long bit before I answered.

I once had a similar reply to this when asked to rank the Primarchs on HOTNESS, but allow me to say just because I think you’re hot does not mean I’m going to jump into the sack with you. Also because my views on some of these fellas HAVE CHANGED.  XD For that I have these…

1. Magnus the Red - if this smokin’, steamin’ hot ass of a Primarch does NOT make it to number 1, then you need to have me investigated because there’s a very good chance that I have been replaced by an impostor. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL HE WILL BE TOPPLED FROM NUMBER ONE UNLESS GW MADE THE ULTIMATE RETCON. AND THAT’S NOT EVEN A GUARANTEE. IF FIVE CHAPTERS OF SMUT and 18 PAGES OF UNPUBLISHED SMUT DOES NOT CONVINCE YOU OF HOW MUCH I ADORE THIS MAN THEN I DON’T KNOW WHAT WILL (art by @thehamwarrior

2. Leman Russ- Oh did Daddy Russ now get promoted? While in my other list he was number 4 in hotness, in I WILL BOINK YOUR BRAINS OUT he is definitely number 2. He’s a studmuffin, blonde viking with a HAREM. A HAREM. Let me repeat that, A HAREM. Papa Russ KNOWS what he’s doing, and for that, I will sign up without hesitation. WHO’S YOUR DADDY NOW??? YOU ARE, MY WOLF KING!! WOOF!! Art by @horus-did-nothing-wrong

3. Roboute Guilliman- Y’all know I am a fan of Papa Rob. And while I’ve been a little lukewarm on him lately for reasons I don’t feel like talking about, I still want to jump his bones. I bet he’s a got a lot of pent-up tension from all the shenanigans he’s been dealing with since he woke up. There is nothing like release-your-tension boffing!!! Woot woot!!!

4. Fulgrim- Someone jumped up the list! Saaaay wuuuut? Why is the Phoenician up here? BECAUSE! A man hell bent on perfection will do his best to please you…and himself. Which is a win-win if you ask me! YES PLEASE! I want to bed him, yes but hell no I will not date him. Art by @dianaii

5. Konrad Curze- Okaaaay I KNOW WHAT YOU’RE THINKING. WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK? I am going to confess right now that part of this decision-making process is rooted in how much I enjoy the rp blogs (which I have to say did put more than one primarch up on this list where they laid low in the previous hot list). Plus I have this weird ship going on with him and fanservice is no sin. I think. But yes my Nostraman Nightmare is up here because I want to get it on with this sad excuse of a murderous madman. Call it a dark fantasy if you will.  Art by @thehamwarrior

6. Sanguinius- My views of how beautiful this man is has not changed. He is still, in my eyes, the most objectively gorgeous primarch to walk the face of this universe. Sweet and kind and sexy and extra. So…why not boink him? Why isn’t he above everyone else? Because of number 17. Art by @toranekostudios

7. Alpharius - The appeal with bedding Alpharius/Omegron and the entire freaking Alpha Legion is just that…you don’t know! Is it one guy? Is it a dozen? Variety never hurt! Plus, well, I’m sure every one of them has something to different to bring to the table (or desk, or floor, or couch…heeeeey). So why the hell not? HYDRA DOMINATUS!!!

8. Vulkan - OMG you are an absolute sweetheart! Should I say the goddamn rpg gave you a super boost up here? Because it did. Just the idea of you stomping Cato Sicarius into a pancake is an instant lady boner! Art by @horus-did-nothing-wrong

9. Lion El Jonson - if I overlook the hideous official art of yours, you’re so breathtakingly handsome in fanart. The only reason you’re low on here is because you’re not very nice. Spanking you was fun though. So you’re not too horribly low. 

10. Jaghatai Khan - You know what I think you would be super-fabulous for? Quickies. Because you’re not the kind who would stay for very long. I would like a ride on your bike though. Men on bikes are sexy! As long as they don’t like their bike more than you. Which is a bigger probability than you think. Art by @toranekostudios

11. Corax - So…are you…Good Curze? Less smelly, not  so-violent, not quite as murderous, psycho maniac Curze? You do look a lot alike. Same with Emps. So getting it on with you is like getting it on with all three of you. Sweet. Yes I have no logic, but that’s not important. We should totally try that trick of you going invisible…weeeee! So many possibilities! (Including you just totally running away from me. But that’s the thrill of the chase you know!) 

12. Angron- You’re a good looking man. In the gladitorial, rough and tumble kinda way.  And you’re strong, and tragic and emo. Also I think as long as your Butcher’s nails don’t kick in, we’ll be fine. You are the epitome of angry, hate sex. Also you belong to Alise, and Lotara in some instances. I will not compete with these gorgeous ladies so you’re a little low here. Out of respect for them I will not tackle you. Much. Art by @syberfab

13. Ferrus Manus-  You underappreciated man. Quite probably because you got killed early in the heresy. But you are homeboys with Fulgrim. That’s gotta say something, meaning you learned some tricks, LOL. Plus you have iron hands. Enough said.

14. Perturabo- He aint called the “Hammer of Olympia” for nothing. LOL. OMG I take that back. Or do I? I know he’s low on the list…he probably shouldn’t. He seems like a pretty cool guy, except when he’s miffed. At which point planets explode. Then again at least he won’t be mad because he’s above Dorn? Look, Lord Turbo, while you’re not exactly my type I know of at least a few other ladies who wouldn’t mind getting it on with thee. Art by @magnifigal

15. Mortarion- Morty I can’t. But at least you’re not at the bottom of the list anymore. I have a feeling your give just as good as you take and maybe even more so. And you probably like to cuddle after. Buuut….your fumes scare me. Your look scares me. How do I know I’m going to make it after a roll in the hay? I do not have a death wish (at least I still prefer you over three other brothers…heeey). Art by @horus-did-nothing-wrong

16. Dorn - LET ME EXPLAIN!!!! I cannot comprehend, even for the slightest, of rolling in the hay with this man because of my wonderful, beautiful friend @mrsdorn​. I value our friendship helluva lot more than pounding this tall drink of water. It’s psychological. Unless…we have a menage-a-trois?

17. Horus- I can’t. I just can’t. The Heresy is a minor reason. But I have a feeling one of the boys up there is going to rip me into bite sized pieces if I so much as THOUGHT of bedding Horus. Out of respect for him, Horus has been demoted even further down. I mean….unless I get to do a threesome with them…then up they both go ^_^ (I am shameless but you know that already).

18. Lorgar - I think everyone, their second cousin and their pet goldfish know how much I despise Lorgar. He’s only on this list at all because I had to put everbody in. But Meh. Just no. I don’t need to be preached on when I’m trying to get busy. Also he has no eyebrows, or facial hair…and I have a massive hair fetish (which probably explains the top 2 men up there, LOL)

[warsofasoiaf]

I think you may have sweltered this but I didn't find it when I did a search. Do you have anything to say on some of the loyalist primarch flaws and how they balance/balanced eachother out?

I don’t think I’ve mentioned it. All of the Primarchs are flawed in their own way, except for Vulkan because he is a massive bro. Sure he went insane, but that’s not his fault that Konrad Curze tortured him and he was a functional immortal.

Lion El’Jonson was arrogant even for a Primarch, and his inability to understand people left him vulnerable to intrigue and isolation. Jonson’s arrogance meant that he felt he wasn’t really accountable to others, hence why he could break his promise to Guilliman not to engage in an orbital bombardment. This same idea is the reason why so many find him suspicious and doubt his loyalty, even when he states that loyalty is its own reward and he doesn’t need to be recognized for the deed. However, this loyalty does ground him, as we see when he fights Curze.

Jaghatai Khan also had much of this isolation, and this made it hard to work with the Scars in a coalition environment. His own pride in himself meant that he never bothered to take the effort to work with others, insisting instead that others would have to make the first move. As such, no one knew what was going on inside his head. What tempered him was his love of Chogoris and his people and his marked dislike of dishonesty. While the Big E was fairly guilty of lying to his kids multiple times, Chaos was much worse. His commitment to freedom was both a flaw and a boon. It made it hard for him and his legion to fit in to the greater Imperium or in the eventual transition to peacetime, but he wasn’t going to stand for Mortarion’s plan to corral all psykers as we see in his epic takedown of the Plague Lord on Prospero.

Leman Russ’s flaws are pretty self-evident. Brash and abrasive, he started fights with his fellow Primarchs all the time. His unquestioning sense of loyalty meant that the Emperor used him for the unsavory jobs, and as he later notes, it won him few friends and left him susceptible to Horus’s manipulation that cost the Emperor the Thousand Sons. Now, Russ’s mistrust of psykers definitely played into this, and that’s on him, but he’s tempered himself now, both in transforming the Space Wolves and in focusing more upon recklessness with psykers, not with the actual psychic powers themselves, ridding himself of his bigotry somewhat.

Rogal Dorn is my main man, but even he is quite flawed. His biggest flaw is the whole “torture himself to enlightenment with the pain glove,” and that was reflected in the Iron Cage incident, where his desire for redemption to him meant suffering through immense pain, but ended up pointlessly crippling the Imperial Fists. This is completely reckless, as a general, he had a duty to his subordinates, and while sure, Perturabo needed to be brought to justice, I can’t really justify that Iron Cage incident as anything other than an attempt to purge himself of his perceived failure. Also, his honesty is great for defense but makes for terrible diplomacy, and as a general, diplomacy is a key part of his portfolio. What grounded him was his recognition of his own failings, and his ironclad desire to help the Imperium.

Sanguinius’s problem was DON’T YOU TALK SHIT ABOUT MY FABULOUS FUCKING HAWK BOY! his martyr complex, as we see at Signus Prime, where he attempted to sacrifice himself to Chaos to cure his Blood Angels of the Red Thirst, which as we see with Magnus and the Flesh-Change, a Chaotic bargain never gives you a permanent solution. While demanding much of yourself is noble, sacrifice sometimes is a waste; you have to make sure that your loss is offset by what you seek to gain. While Sanguinius was aware of visions of his own death, he never faltered. That is in itself a virtue, to not fear death, but he should strive His compassion was both a virtue and a flaw, as few people would try to redeem Konrad Curze and Horus himself. Unfortunately, that compassion and his drive to die for the glory of the Imperium got him killed, instead of waiting for Dorn or his father.

Ferrus Manus was brutal and too focused on purging himself of weakness. This meant that Ferrus was often brutal on his conquests and when Fulgrim attempted to convert him to the side of Chaos, Ferrus was so driven to prove that he wasn’t so weak as to be corrupted that he took unnecessary risks. His logic was baffling: since if Fulgrim believed he could tempt him, his brothers and the Emperor would suspect him, forgetting that Fulgrim was…I dunno, his best friend and so that friendship might have been a factor, or that in refusing, Ferrus proved his loyalty to Mankind. This ideology was so destructive that he sought out Fulgrim to ‘atone’ despite being surrounded, and it led to his death.

Roboute Guilliman is convinced of his own rightness that he can’t see where he makes mistakes. He almost tore the Imperium in half after the fall of the Emperor with the Codex Astartes, and he was so convinced that Terra had fallen that rather than investigate, he created Imperium Secundus. His self-righteousness can lead to sunk cost fallacy or not changing his plans if his initial ideas are not working (looking at you Unnumbered Sons), as well as people who don’t conform to his ideas being shunned out of the states he builds. His rigidity can cause problems both in diplomacy and in war. What tempers him is that he truly does care for the states he crafts and he wants to do right by them. 

Corvus Corax’s flaws, like others, are isolation, but also in an inability to communicate. This meant that when Corvus was put up against a wall against the charismatic Horus, he couldn’t stand his ground, and thus a lot of Raven Guard suffered as a result. Corax also wasn’t on his guard with regard to the Alpha Legion, and thus his plan to save his legion was sabotaged, and this brought him into a deep depression. His isolation left him to suffer alone until he went into the Eye of Terror, and deprive the Imperium of a significant asset. His infiltration tactics were incredibly useful, and his drive against tyranny could have arrested the Imperium’s slow decline, but alas, he was unable to pull himself from the brink by himself. What tempered him though, was his commitment to freedom and individual dignity.

As you can see, all of these Primarch had their flaws, but their grounding kept them from slipping. Corvus never embraced his anti-tyranny zeal to become Konrad Curze, The Lion never succumbed to resentment over being snubbed the way Perturabo did, and Ferrus’s drive for perfection didn’t lead to excessive vanity like Fulgrim. They definitely made mistakes both by themselves and to each other, but ultimately, they stood up for Mankind rather than falling into the traps of pride and ego that Chaos laid for them. Even Magnus, whose fall was so tragic and had the best of intentions for his father and the Imperium, had succumbed to rash pride in believing that he could control Chaos and that his superior intellect rendered him immune to the problems of the Warp and the allure of the Ruinious Powers.

The Emperor Protects, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[cursed-40k-thoughts]

Broke: Leman and Magnus were always enemies Woke: Magnus and Leman had mutual respect before Prospero Bespoke: Magnus and Leman were really good friends but Leman was more loyal to his father than his friend for that extra tragedy™

I do kinda wish there was more stuff like this. It really made the Ferrus vs Fulgrim and Sanguinius vs Horus stuff more narratively and emotionally impactful.

Leman and Magnus being more healthily respectful and fond of each other would have been really, really cool and, like you said, infinitely more tragic.

I kind of wish Leman was a lot nicer generally, since I want to like him more, but his chud moments outweigh the good ones most of the time.