#ml ask

[iwasbored777]

@devotedlycasualcreator

@unbelievablesuper...outrageous

I don't want to disappoint you but I'm really done with Miraculous Ladybug. Pls stop sending me asks about it. I don't want to talk about it.

I'm posting this so others who recently followed me because of my ML posts from months ago will know - I'm not posting about ML anymore. It's just not my thing anymore. I'm not a ML hater but I'm not a ML fan either and that show is behind me now.

But I hope you are having fun <3

[kisilinramblings]

(This is NOT a salt ask) Hello. You probably know about the interview Thomas and Sébastien did some weeks ago and how in it Thomas said that he had planned to redeem Chloé but then changed his mind, which contradicts him saying in the past that Chloé was never meant to be redeemed and that the fans mistakenly got that impression. Now, this answer doesn't bother me. However, this fandom has a massive hate-***** for Thomas, so I'd like to double check if this is what was actually said in the interview just to be sure... except I don't understand French. Is there a way to know word-for-word what he said about Chloé in the interview? Thanks.

Anon, it is really commendable of you that you want to double-check informations and claims you read. It's great even.

I am however not sure I am the best to answer your ask because I am very tired of the fandom discourse and have very low tolerance to anything remotely related to Chloé stans or people finding any reason to hate Thomas just because they want to hate him.

So I hope you can understand my reluctance to answer your ask. I am gonna help you a bit, but I am sorry if I am not providing you with the answer you seek.

I am however going to give you the timecode and the French verbatim. You can link this post if you find anyone else who can help you out.

Questions about Chloé starts at 3:27:30 on the Twitch video.

Any French Speaker who wants to contribute to this post is welcome!

And to non-french speakers, no, I am not going to translate it because I was unable to download the video. If I had been able to download the video, I could have run up Premiere Transcribe function and just watch while correcting here and there, but nope. I have to use the old method of watching all the second part of the interview centered on Miraculous until we got to the part about Chloé and transcribe it manually. Which took me a little more of three hours of my time (research + watch + transcribing). And honestly, that is already way over of what I was accepting to do for this ask.

Thank you for your comprehension.

=================================

French Verbatim down below

=================================

Alcaz : On a eu beaucoup, beaucoup de questions sur Chloé. La première, c'était... Pourquoi Chloé continuait de s'enfoncer dans sa vilénie, malgré toutes ses autres occasions de se racheter et de devenir quelqu'un de meilleur?

Sébastien : Les personnages écrivent déjà, comme je vous l'ai dit tout à l'heure...

(Sébastien et Thomas répondent un peu en même temps. Je manque donc quelques mots des deux, d'où les points de suspension)

Thomas : ...Vous regarderez dans la vraie vie comment cela se passe. Vous trouvez que les gens qui ont du pouvoir, tout d'un coup, ils se mettent à faire des choses gentilles? Comme ça, sans raison?

Alcaz : C'est rare.

Thomas : Voilà. Comme le dit Sébastien, on laisse les personnages écrire... On met les personnages dans des situations, et puis on se dit : « Ce serait quoi la logique? Le personnage, logiquement, là, dans telle situation, comment il réagirait? » Dans tout ce qu'on... On a essayé! On a essayé, on a tendu toutes les perches possibles à Chloé.

Alcaz : Pour essayer de la sauver, ouais.

Thomas : On a essayé. On a tout essayé. Franchement, on a tout essayé. Mais, à chaque fois, le personnage... Tu te dis un moment : « Mais non, si on écrit ça, c'est... Ce sera faux ». Ça sortira de nulle part le fait que tout d'un coup, elle fasse un truc gentil ou elle éclate en sanglot en disant : « Oh mon dieu, j'ai été horrible. Marinette je m'excuse pour tout ce que j'ai fait et à partir de maintenant, je deviendrai la...»

Sébastien : Ce serait quand même hyper-bizarre.

Thomas : Absurde, absurde.

Solva : Je relate beaucoup à ce que vous dites. Quand j'écris aussi, je laisse justement mes personnages parler et je me dis tiens là, si je l'écris comme ça, c'est pas comme ça qu'il... C'est out of character et du coup, je comprends parfaitement ce que vous dites quand vous vous laisser guider par le personnage.

Thomas : Je comprends l'envie. Je comprends l'envie des gens. Je comprends l'envie des gens que Chloé devienne gentille. Moi aussi, j'aimerais bien. J'aimerais bien que, dans la vraie vie, les gens qui ont beaucoup de pouvoir, tout d'un coup se mettent à faire des choses sympas. Mais à un moment, ben ouais... Elle n'a aucun intérêt à changer, Chloé. Elle n'a aucun intérêt à changer. Elle n'a aucune raison de changer.

Solva : Je pense que c'est bien aussi de donner un message aux gens que la vie, ce n'est pas forcément un conte Disney et que tout le monde devient pas gentil par la force des choses. Que ce n'est pas une réponse, en fait, universelle. Que malheureusement, il y a des gens qui s'enfoncent dans leurs erreurs. C'est aussi ça la réalité et ça me paraît important de le souligner, personnellement.

Sébastien : Regardez... j'attire votre attention sur le fait, comme par exemple, quand on parle d'évolution de personnage, c'est aussi ce que sont les personnages, leur personnalité, qui fait leur réaction. Comme le dit Thomas, on ne fait que les écouter et voir si c'est juste ou pas. On a essayé de faire changer Chloé. En fait, ça ne marchait pas. Elle était out of character. Et pis, elle décide d'elle-même de ne pas changer. Mais, j'attire votre attention sur le fait, par exemple, qu'un personnage comme André Bourgeois, maire de Paris, lui a évolué. Mais pourquoi il a évolué? Parce que, en fait, il portait dans sa backstory, qu'on avait imaginé et qui existait dans notre esprit, il avait les ferments pour en fait changer. Et c'est d'où la belle scène -- moi, je la trouve magnifique -- entre Gabriel et lui sur le toît du Palace... Où, en fait, il dit : «Gabi, qu'est-ce qu'on est devenu? »

Justin : Oui! C'est vrai.

Thomas : C'était une scène magnifique pour moi.

Sébastien : On (parlant de Gabi et André) a oublié les gamins qu'on était. Et on sait, nous, quels gamins ils ont été. On aimerait le raconter d'ailleurs un jour. Montrer quels jeunes gamins ils ont été tous les deux quand ils galéraient dans Paris et quand en fait, ils n'étaient pas encore ceux que vous avez connu dans la série. C'est parce qu'on connaissait ce personnage-là, qu'on se disait : « Lui, c'est possible qu'il bouge ». Il est triste d'ailleurs à ce qui arrive à sa fille, comment ça finit. Il essaie de changer ça et il n'y arrive pas. Il n'y arrive pas, comme nous en fait. Il est un peu notre image, en fait. Et il est la preuve qu'un personnage... on peut changer en fait. Mais pour changer, il faut le vouloir. Il faudra aussi être... je ne sais pas, on explore! L'être humain est complexe et il est multiple. Et voilà. Et c'est pour ça, vous l'avez noté vous-mêmes, on a beaucoup de personnages dans Miraculous. Donc, il y en a certains qui évoluent, d'autres pas. C'est comme ça.

Thomas : Et c'est vrai que plus les gens sont privilégiés, moins ils ont de raisons de changer. Parce que tout va bien pour eux.

(Fin de la partie sur Chloé. Alcaz pose une autre question ensuite concernant si on verra un jour Marinette akumatisée)

[goggles-mcgee]

Is there anything good you can say about Adrien at this point?

I don't know if this is asked in anger or genuine, but I've said it before: I don't hate Adrien.

He's got a good heart, but he's flawed. Everyone is. But since this is asking about the good, like previously stated, I think he's got a big heart and tries his best to be a good friend and peace keeper. He is doing his best to take control of the little things he does have control over, and I can't be mad with that as it is a perfectly understandable response given his upbringing. He's more than a little naive, but he's doing the best he can, y'know?

[gameguy20100]

Do you think Adrien was justified for the events in Kuro Neko

Yes, yes I do.

Depression and abandonment issues are really hard to deal with.

How would you feel if every part of your life was micromanaged to absurdity. You couldn't even tie your shoes without your father's permission.

But you have an outlet, a friend who you love, respect, and would do anything for. You help people and feel like you're making a difference.

But they not only call on you less. They replace you with a bunch of other people. And even say, despite the fact you've been by their side on this since day one, they regard you as "Just like the others."

Depression twisted Ladybugs words in his mind. What he heard was " He's replaceable. He's not special at all."

It's a massive kick to the ego to realise you mean less to a person than you thought. In Adrien’s case, the only person he felt he could be himself around.

So yes. Yes, his feelings were justified

[bbwoulfc]

Are you still following Miraculous Ladybug?

I still follow Miraculous Ladybug, but I stay within the fandom side of things. I don’t watch the show itself anymore. Lost complete interest of the story and the romance. If I’m being completely honest, it’s the romance between the two main characters that drove me away from the show. But I love the fandom as a whole so like I said above, I stay within that side of things.

I still write fics for the fandom and that’s about it. I catch the main facts from the episodes from social media but overall I’ve given up on the show itself.

[sairenharia]

What would you think if Chloe and Audrey heard rumours about the way they were going to be portrayed in Astruc’s new movie, so they went back to Paris in an unsuccessful attempt to stop the movie from being completed? Then an evilized villain (maybe a wishmaker-like villain or maybe even a villain that's unrelated to the butterfly miraculous) caused Chloe and Zoe to switch bodies somehow, and nobody fully understands what's going on, so Zoe (in Chloe's body) is taken by Audrey back to New York, despite Zoe desperately trying to explain things. But Chloe enters a fugue state (heavily due to trauma caused by the neglect of her parents) and genuinely thinks she's Zoe, and is even able to recall many of the things Zoe did due to being in Zoe's body. The class thinks “Zoe's” change in behavior is due to the psychological effects of method acting, since “Zoe” is playing Chloe in Astruc's new movie, but they gradually convince “Zoe” to let them help her relearn how to be “herself” again.

Zoe is not able to gain access to Chloe's memories while in Chloe's body, because unlike Chloe, Zoe knows she's in the wrong body. In New York, Zoe is trying to get back to Paris, but when she gets there, “Zoe” thinks she’s there to try to hurt Marinette. Eventually, after listening to “Chloe”, Marinette starts to suspect that “Chloe” might be telling the truth, so she decides that she must test “Chloe” and “Zoe”. She fakes being in danger to see how they react. “Zoe” reacts slightly faster than “Chloe”, so Marinette comes to the conclusion that “Chloe” is lying and that “Chloe” has an evil and manipulative plan. Marinette thinks that “Chloe” must have picked up a few tricks from Lila, because she thinks no version of Chloe could possibly react faster than Zoe when it comes to protecting her. So Audrey takes “Zoe” back to New York again to “correct” her after “Zoe” fails to convince anyone of the truth.

10 years later, “Zoe” gets seriously injured after fighting a villain when Ladybug isn’t around, which causes “Zoe” to not have long to live. Then Ladybug accidentally stumbles upon the truth about “Zoe” while trying to help “Zoe” using magical powers. Ladybug decides that the moral thing to do is to switch Chloe and Zoe back to their original bodies. Once Zoe gets her body back, she blames Chloe for her impending death and for leaving her with 10 years of loneliness, while Chloe got off scot-free. When Lila gets defeated, Zoe steals the Butterfly Miraculous to get her hands on Ladybug and Catnoir’s miraculouses, hoping to “make things right”. Zoe gets defeated by the heroes (including Chloe, who has gotten her memories back) and Ladybug manages to cure Zoe’s injuries.

I think that could be a fun story, and definitely something that can work in the AU category.

Though I would do it differently just for the ICness factor and consistency of what has happened.

I would say it has to be something non-Akuma related. It has been established that while the damage caused by Akuma powers needs the Cure, we have had magical affects fade by just having the Akuma taken care of. What does and does not gets hinky, but even without that, Ladybug knows a Lucky Charm is needed to fix the damage of a battle, so at minimum, the Akuma needs to be taken down before its been perceived they've done anything to anyone. But we've established there is Mad Science going on in Paris and honestly, I think that would be the better way for this to happen because its less clear if the Cure can do anything about purely technological disasters, and by minimizing how many are affected by the problem, the easier it is for the switch to be unnoticed.

I would also say Chloe and Audrey aren't there because they heard they were being slandered in the movie. Just that Queen Bee was in it and of course Chloe wants to go to a test screening.

Now here is important for set up, especially if you want Zoe to become a villain, and for Chloe to want something different.

Animated movies take a long time to make. So Chloe and Zoe have both been in London and Paris respectively for a while. Audrey feels humiliated and since she can't be rid of Chloe, she is even more overbearing and domineering, forcing Chloe to act exactly how she wants. Chloe's behavior gets worse, both as a means of survival and because hurting others has always been her unfortunate coping mechanism. Which means she's not making new friends, anyone around her is people she can control, and the only attention she's getting that isn't her forcing it, is her mother. Chloe is desperately dependent on any brief moment of approval from her mother and it only comes when she's at her very worst.

Which leads to even more intense misery and hating herself because being a vile person isn't the thing she truly WANTS, its always been about attention and survival.

On the other hand, we have Zoe. Zoe who has at least something of an idea that the family situation is messed up, and has been desperately trying to break free of this same cycle. Zoe who just watched Andre abandon his daughter and Zoe is supposed to be a GOOD person. This man just abandoned his fourteen year old daughter instead of trying to help her and just leaves her with Audrey and Zoe KNOWS how bad Audrey is. The previous comradery of just trying to survive in a bad situation takes a turn and Zoe is very aware that any love Andre has for her is VERY much conditional.

But her birth father is almost definitely some kind of enabler for him to just let his daughter run off to Paris to the family of the woman he had an affair with. Or maybe he's dead. Either way, her birth father isn't gonna come in and save the day so Zoe realized her family situation is just bad all around. She's just lucky that Andre isn't overtly abusive, but she's hyper aware of how she is around him because she does not want to fall into another abusive situation when she's been trying so hard to break free.

Its fine. She has her friends in Paris. She doesn't need to rely on family that much. She had options. She Is Fine.

So the switch?

Both Zoe and Chloe are here for the test screening of the movie! Chloe has been good enough for Audrey that when she asked, she humored her and let her go to the test screening for Queen Bee. Unknown to her, its BOTH Queen Bee and Vesperia. (Zoe had wanted so badly to be Vesperia, but decided last second to audition for Queen Bee because she's trying to not test the bound of the glamours, UNLIKE ADRIEN.)

They both end up at the test screening. Its very tense and terrible until they get to the movie. But oh! This is a test screening for rich kids! Gotta have bells and whistles! And hey, there is this new system to make the movie experience truly immersive! 3D, feel the air, smell, everything to feel like you're really there! Don't worry about it being in testing still.

Except then oh no! Something goes wrong! And the switch happens! Now why it just affects those two could be any number of reason. I think I would play with fact they were both the Bee holder, and since the kwami essentially fuse with their holders, when the MAD SCIENCE disaster happens, its like a temporary fusion of people with the movie they're watching. Like being put into a video game sort of scenario. Except when things are CORRECTED, Pollen's lingering aura on both Zoe and Chloe causes the machine to put them back wrong.

Now I think I would commit either to they BOTH get each others memories, or they both don't, but I think I would play with the memory thing. With the shoddy way the switch happens, it makes sense. Some of the other still came through. Just the bulk of them is still them. I'll get back to that in a bit.

Now for what happens after?

I think the movie should be a breaking point for Chloe.

Because to Chloe, Queen Bee is everything that Chloe WANTED. Queen Bee was someone who could be loved. Queen Bee is someone who could be useful and valued. Queen Bee is the Chloe who could be GOOD.

And the movie had both Queen Bee and Vesperia because Queen Bee was the villain of the piece. Its not just Ladybug who prefers Vesperia, its EVERYONE and that hits hard against Chloe's psyche.

The switch happens.

And at first there is chaos and confusion. Everyone felt they were LIVING the movie, so everyone's perceptions of reality is understandable. Oddities are brushed aside. Chloe and Zoe are especially confused as they have foreign memories in their head. It takes a while for them to get their heads on straight. It takes a few hours before they fully know who they are.

Or, almost.

Chloe looks like Zoe, and Zoe has so many people who love her. Who asks if she's okay. Including Marinette, who totally happened to just be there, wow did she just miss Ladybug, weird. Chloe, at first, lashes out at Marinette. She expects to hurt Marinette, or to be dismissed, or for Marinette to fight back.

Instead Marinette just looks CONCERNED. She guides her to the medical professionals. Reassures her it'll be okay. They'll help. Everything will be okay. She is a supportive friend, who is patient through all her aggression and lashing out, because she's just been through something rough, and Marinette can be endlessly forgiving if she wants.

Chloe quiets down. Because it reminds her of the good memories she has of Ladybug. Its hard to fight when someone is offering her such patience and kindness.

There are these memories of nice moments with Marinette that aren't hers, but there's a lot more of bad moments and its confusing and she's close. She's right at the door of being Chloe.

Then she sees Pollen.

Because at this point, Zoe is a permanent hero. And once Chloe is alone, Pollen reveals herself, asks if she's okay, and Chloe realizes that its ZOE who was chosen to replace Queen Bee and something in her breaks.

Zoe who, as far as Chloe had known, was exactly like her. Chosen by her classmates. Chosen by her father. Chosen by Ladybug. Zoe is proof that Ladybug was close enough to Chloe to still see Zoe, even after their falling out, and judged Zoe as better.

And after so long under Audrey, of hating herself, of hating her life, of having it driven home over and over again that NO ONE WANTS HER...

Chloe decides she doesn't want herself either.

On the other side, there is Zoe. Zoe is struggling to sort out herself between Chloe and Zoe memories, and it takes some time, but she is given the time to do so. Because no one visits her. Who would? Eventually Audrey shows up at the hospital to pick her up and its only then that Zoe catches on that something is wrong. She had been in too much of a fugue state to realize that wait, her friends didn't show up. Nor Andre. That was weird? Then Audrey was there, when the doctor was finally clearing her to leave, and taking her hand and dragging her off.

She catches sight of herself in a window and only THEN does she realize what has happened. Audrey doesn't care to listen, and Paris remembers Chloe's whole coup thing and doesn't want her to stay. No one believes her. No one LISTENS.

And to Zoe's horror, she realizes she's BACK to how it was before she came to Paris. No one believes her. No one trusts her.

Except then she realizes its WORSE.

At least in New York, she had ONE friend. She had one person who she could trust and rely on. This person wasn't enough to fully counter all the abuse she suffered between her home life and the bullies at school, but it had been enough of a haven for her to attempt to escape her situation. To choose to pursue a clean slate and find herself. But Chloe had been acting even worse than in Paris and worse, Audrey doesn't simply IGNORE her, but instead controls and criticizes her constantly. She can't get enough time alone to even attempt to live for herself.

(If you want to be REAL dark, there were more than two doors in that hall for those white rooms that Adrien and Kagami were in. There is a nonzero chance that Audrey was also using it to re-educate Chloe.)

But Zoe has had a few years to try and figure out who she is. She's been rebelling against this abuse for a while! She's alone right now, but! But she has friends who love her! If she can just get back to them, she could fix this.

Though all the while, she is sorting through the memories that she figures out aren't HERS and she has a growing unease as she realizes all the ways that Chloe and her were indeed alike...and how Chloe was left entirely alone in her efforts to try anything new. Zoe had one friend, then many friends, but Chloe never had a friend to truly support her.

Adrien is, unfortunately, an enabler, and Sabrina just outright freaks out if Chloe changes too much.

Perhaps a few times, she remembers when Chloe had hope with Ladybug. The one friend she thought believed in her and she wonders how much it killed her when she became Vesperia.

She's working to get a ticker to Paris regardless. Maybe after she gets her body back, she can try to help Chloe. She is a superhero, after all.

Meanwhile, Chloe is dealing with Zoe's friends and Pollen. Pollen is confused when "Zoe" just breaks down crying after seeing her, but she can't get anything out of her. Chloe is sure that Pollen almost definitely likes Zoe more than she liked Chloe and getting that confirmed just might kill her.

She doesn't ask. She doesn't correct. She decides she won't be Chloe anymore and tries to be Zoe. She just doesn't really know how to, and she tries to figure it out from those memories that aren't hers, but its hard to figure out a full personality from snippets. She tries ANYWAY. Does Zoe pretend to be nice? Is that it? Was she pretending to be nice?

She's bad at it. Horrible, really. But her friends know about the MAD SCIENCE, knows its messed with her friend. They also know she used to pretend to be a bitch before she came to Paris, and with her being Chloe IN the movie, maybe its just taking time for her to get back to normal. But she's their friend.

They offer patience. They offer guidance. They remind her what is rude and how to be nice, and Chloe...

Chloe FLOURISHES. Because they think she has brain damaged, they explain things clearly. They give her clear expectations. More than that, they don't DAMN her for messing up. She is allowed to struggle. She's allowed to make mistakes. She's allowed to LEARN and GROW.

Sure, at first a lot of her niceness is hella performative, but as time goes on, its easier.

She's invited to parties. People smile when they see her. They ask if she's okay. She's given love and affection she's never had before and so often she goes home and cries because she doesn't know what to do with all these feelings, but she will hold onto them with both hands.

And then there's the time she becomes Vesperia. Which is a real surprise for Ladybug, because Ladybug is so used to having to hold the other heroes hands when it comes to plans. Sure, since making them permanent heroes, they have gotten a LITTLE more agency when dealing with problems, but the moment Ladybug is on the scene, EVERYONE defers to her.

She expected that even more from Vesperia what with the "brain damage" and all, but no. Instead Vesperia is active. Vesperia makes calls on her own. She doesn't WAIT for Ladybug to hold her hand about the plan. She takes stock and nine times out of ten, she makes a good decision to help with whatever situation they're dealing with. Its like when its just her and Chat Noir fighting, where Chat Noir can usually just intuit what Ladybug needs from him. Its WEIRD, but not unwelcome.

Sometimes, she gets a weird sense of deja vu because...well, this was kind of like working with Queen Bee. Was it from acting as her for the movie? It seems the only explanation.

Sometimes she thinks of Zoe being in her body, having her life...

But clearly her life was only that bad because she was CHLOE. Zoe is not her. Zoe is Zoe and everyone has judged her as better. Because she's better, her life is fine. She will be able to meet mother's expectations. People will love her. Because everyone loves Zoe and hated Chloe, but Zoe is so much better than her, she'll manage in her body.

Its what Chloe tells herself. Its what she BELIEVES because everything in her life has shown her that she will never be chosen first, so long as Zoe doesn't act as her, she'll be fine.

And Chloe is enough of a bad person to selfishly keep this fight. She has Sabrina back. She has ADRIEN back. She is friends with her classmates. She's friends with MARINETTE, which she thinks is utterly ridiculous at first, but without her jealousy and inadequacy feelings in regards to Marinette...

She can see Marinette now.

And here's the thing, Chloe doesn't fawn over SUPERHEROES. She fawned over LADYBUG. It was well established she would blow off all other heroes, but never Ladybug. So it was Ladybug, specifically, she admired, and now she is in a position to see those same traits in Marinette and she finds out she actually LIKES Marinette.

Adrien, sometimes, gives her odd looks, but ultimately....he doesn't believe in his suspicions enough to act.

Chloe doesn't know if she's grateful for it, or even more hurt by it. She ignores it.

Zoe gets to Paris. She finds Marinette. She's SURE she can convince Marinette of the truth. If she can convince Marinette, then Marinette can convince Alya and Alya SURELY has a way to get into contact with Ladybug and Ladybug has connections with magic and mad science, its her best bet for a solution.

And this happens how the original prompt said. Zoe manages to say enough and act in a non-Chloe way enough that she starts to doubt and wonder. Maybe Adrien is also here and kind of supports the idea on how they're acting. But Marinette absolutely doesn't trust Chloe and what if she actually became more dangerous over the years.

Zoe is conflicted about this, because she has more sympathy for Chloe, but....but she wants her body back. Her LIFE back. They can help Chloe AFTER.

But Marinette says they need both girls there to talk this over and Zoe is fine with that. Though to be careful, because she's not sure why Chloe hasn't tried to change back either. (She almost tells Marinette about her being Vesperia, but ultimately decides against it. She wants to believe this can end peacefully and hopes Chloe doesn't abuse Pollen.)

Turns out she doesn't need to be concerned about Pollen.

Marinette decides to test them, she invites them to the same place, and then puts herself in seeming danger to see how they would react. Like CHLOE would ever help her. If Chloe has been in Zoe, its clearly just a long con, she doesn't CARE.

Marinette doesn't account for the fact Zoe, as a hero, has always deferred to Ladybug and Chat Noir, she was a hero of hesitation, but Chloe has always been a hero of decisive action. Even if she had still hated Marinette, her time as Vesperia has just honed her back into the habit of being a hero.

Zoe's heart is broken as she realizes she was too slow. When she sees how certain Marinette is that she's Chloe, the look of contempt on her face, she isn't able to even try to find the words.

That's when Audrey finds her. She drags her to London or New York, wherever they are living at this point, and Zoe is alone.

Audrey's appearance just convinced Chloe she's right. Zoe is better than her. Like Audrey would ever notice she was gone so fast!

She never tried to run from Audrey, because she never had the will like Zoe to leave her situation alone, she doesn't realize its a sign of Audrey's domineering.

Zoe is broken hearted and under even more watch.

It could be even more heartbreaking if they are in New York and Zoe tries talking to her friend in a desperate bid for help and have THAT also go terribly. (Jess or Aeon are both fun options.)

Their lives continue. Zoe is living under stress and despair, and she goes back to old habits to survive, and its worse because she knows what she's lost.

Chloe improves, as a person and hero, having a support network, and may even start to forget she was ever Chloe.

Time passes.

And here, I don't think it makes sense for Ladybug to attempt to switch them back AFTER Chloe is hurt in Zoe's body. They have been in each other's bodies a long time and the damage done isn't some inherent thing to the body, its not like the body switch doomed one or the other.

BUT! It is possible for the switch back to happen by mistake. There is a villain going around, using a machine to mind control people. In the ensuing fight, Vesperia is injured terribly. If she survives, she will not be the same.

But the machine was technology! Ladybug can't fix this!

But Vesperia is dying as whoever is there is trying to stabilize her.

She has to TRY. She has to try and the fight DID require a lucky charm, so she prays and tries the cure.

But see, what Ladybug didn't know is ten years ago, in that movie theater, there HAD been some magic in the problem.

And what she didn't know is parts of those very machines is what was used to make this machine, and you have a Feast situation where the opponent is defeated years later.

Zoe and Chloe are suddenly switched back.

The heroes don't realize it at first as the Cure didn't seem to work and they are desperately trying to keep her alive.

Chloe is in New York or London, no longer bleeding out, and Zoe is in Paris on death's door.

Zoe is saved, but she is in truly bad shape. She certainly can't be a hero, especially as Vesperia's identity has to be outed when she's brought to the hospital.

Ladybug had to take the Miraculous before she even woke up.

Its Marinette who sees Zoe first. She was there when she woke up, because she's Zoe's emergency contact. And when Zoe sees her?

She goes off.

Its then that Marinette learns the truth of what happened and the mistake she made. Before she can even try to calm Zoe down, she's led out by the hospital staff.

Zoe is in despair. Broken and hurt and having forgotten how to ask for help over the years.

A few days later, as a legal adult, Chloe shows up in Paris. She approaches Adrien first. Adrien is unsure about her at first, but is willing to sit down for a civil conversation, where Chloe explains what happened. She shares experiences Adrien and "Zoe" had as proof.

Adrien is shocked and horrified and asked how Chloe could do that to Zoe? She knew how her mother was.

Chloe, while she had learned how to be nicer and kinder over the years, never fully lost her confrontational nature, shoots back Adrien had been okay leaving Chloe with Audrey. Which does shut him up long enough for Chloe to apologize and try to explain.

And can only settle on something simple.

"I had friends. I had you back."

And for all that Adrien wouldn't have done it himself...he UNDERSTANDS the weight in the words.

And dear god, if Ladybug and Chat Noir don't know their identities by then, it would be a hot mess, so at least I assume they know. He goes to Marinette to explain what happened and Marinette confirms about Zoe and they have to figure out where to go from there.

There is definitely a Zoe Akuma because boy, she is full of negative energy, but Zoe is never purified. No, Akuma Zoe ESCAPES to avoid purification and Lila suddenly has her own partner.

But Zoe is not Chloe. Zoe was able to acknowledge she was being abused, manipulated, and used. She realized what Lila Moth was doing right away....but she is angry. She is hurt. She's been alone SO LONG. And she remembers. The other heroes know the cost of Ladybug and Chat Noir losing their Miraculous. It was part of the safety measures. If the choice is either Ladybug or Chat Noir losing their Miraculous, or themselves, they had to make the sacrifice. It was also why none of them knew who the two were except for the Time Heroes officially.

She was going to die. She had suffered so long. She had lost her life.

She just wanted it all to go away.

Much like Chloe ten years ago, she didn't want to be herself anymore, she wanted her clean slate.

Zoe knows how to turn the game on Lila. Knows how to play dumb long enough to think Lila controls her until she steals the moth.

So starts the cycle, but Marinette is having her own flashbacks as she realizes this is JUST like Gabriel again, where she wasn't able to cure him of the Cataclysm, but its even worse because she failed her FRIEND, and she is pouring over Guardian resources to find a way to fix how Zoe is hurt.

And Chloe is suddenly confronted with the difficult situation of explaining what happened to everyone. They're all feeling conflicted because its been ten years and while Chloe was a bully, its been ten years and they realized that, you know, in the grand scheme of things, what she did wasn't really that big of a deal. Certainly not in the face of ten years of superheroing.

What she did to Zoe was horrific, but also they're talking to Chloe and they realize she's so FAMILIAR now, they KNOW her now, and there is the horror of what she did to Zoe, and the new face, but also seeing their friend amongst it all.

It buys her time to explain why she did what she did. Especially with Adrien helping.

I think it could be a fun parallel later when she's talking to them as the hero selves. They realized none of them knew ZOE anymore and she was terrorizing Paris! Some are taking a harder stance than others, until Chloe speaks up.

Having woken up in Zoe's London/New York life, she saw enough to realize how isolated she was, and she's had enough years to see the difference and she says the truth.

Zoe is doing this because no one helped her. She had been fine with help. If they could just find her...maybe...maybe she could be helped NOW.

Ladybug and Chat Noir want to try too.

Slowly they win over the others, and there is the realization that maybe things could have been different if they had given Chloe the patience they had given her in Zoe's body.

The final battle happens. Chloe reaches out to Zoe. Go the whole 'even if the whole world hates you, I'll love you, sister' deal. Finally let Zoe feel like she can lean on someone again after years of isolation, just in time for Ladybug to figure out a way to heal her.

[marimbles]

Halloween comic two weeks late bc i will never let tamadrien die

[anna-scribbles]

adrinette exes & marichat! part 3!

(part 1 / part 2 / part 4)

[cataclysm-cass]

silly thing I thought of while I was on the phone with my friend

It’s based off of that one horse “how hungry” meme ,,

it was funnier in my head 😓

[plumsaffron]

Is this on beta.charactet.ai, so yes what's the name of the AI? If not, where did you chat with them?

I'm asking this question because of this post: https://www.tumblr.com/plumsaffron/721889334318465024/recently-i-heard-some-post-of-lila-being-witch?source=share (I can't comment because there is going something wrong with that)

Pls let me know when you've answered my question.

So pretty much you are only talking through them. It's good for roleplaying or if you don't want to see your discord name consistently or something else.

[buggachat]

legitimate question ....... why do people like to tell me all the reasons they don't like miraculous ladybug? i know i complain about the fact a lot, and i find myself on the defensive a lot, and i keep telling myself i'll stop and let it go, but it really is hard when people are always coming onto my posts, in my replies, in my comments, on my art and my fics and my text posts and anything i make, and telling me blatantly all the ways that they don't like the thing that i so blatantly find enjoyment in. "the show is bad". okay? good for you? why are you on my post about it? why don't you make your own? why are you telling me, specifically, this, on the art/fic/analysis i made that i assume you found by searching through the tag?

it's kind of a behavior that i legitimately don't understand. I'm a human being and I hate a lot of things, too. there are things i've loved at first and been disappointed by and have strong opinions about. there are things i like to complain about. so i'll complain about them to my friends or my family or my cat. but i have never, once, not even for a single moment, thought, "oh let me go into the tags of this media, find a positive post about it written by someone who's having fun with it, and make it that random stranger's problem". never once.

i just don't get it. i really don't get it. i sometimes worry that i come across like i'm heavily critical of people who just personally don't like the show, when really i'm just trying to defend my interests to the droves of strangers who are always coming specifically to me to tell me all the ways they hate the thing that makes me happy.

just.......... why? where does the urge come from? what do you get out of this?

[iwasbored777]

Félix is a lot of things but cockblocker isn't one of them. Gabe tho? He would rather die than watch his son get laid.

[paracosmicat]

my friend who doesn't watch miraculous made this when I showed them their designs

[bklily]

thinking of comedic ways of how the hell that talk is gonna go

[gameguy20100]

Regarding your discussion of the Felix/Chloe double standard, anon just wants to say I continue to be impressed by how much integrity you have compared to the saltdom. You've made it no secret that Chloe disgusts you, and for good reason since she's a terrible person. Thus, if a double standard negatively impacts her, that's in your self-interest. Yet you're still willing to call out an injustice that BENEFITS you, not just an injustice that harms you personally. If only more fans were like you.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah, I've made no secret of the fact that Chloe disgusts me. But Felix is way worse.

If I had to choose between the spoilt narcissistic brat, and the guy who abuses his cousin, assault's 2 girls sexually (Technically 3 if you count ladybug and Marinette as different people. Which from his perspective they are.) Gaslights a girl into a toxic romance by using her trauma against her after stalking and kidnapping her.

And her species is the only reason you didn't kill her. (Honestly the fact Kagami is Japanese is the only reason I don't call Felix a white supremacist.)

I'll take the narcissistic brat.

In fact, look at the crimes. Felix and Chloe are very similar.

Chloe: Abuses her sister. Assaults Adrien, betrays Ladybug. Gets punished.

Felix: Abuses his cousin. Assaults Marinette, betrays Ladybug. Gets rewarded.

What's the difference between Chloe and Felix? Don't answer you know what it is.