#mike meta

[murdockmeta]

welcome back to watchmojo where we are counting down ren's top 5 mike murdock moments

5. Killing Bullseye that one time

so, technically this didnt ACTUALLY happen (or itd be my number one lmfao), it was in a dream Matt was having while he was dying. but listen, okay, mike was still so real for this. bullseye was this close to killing Matt and Mike comes outta nowhere, declares his love for Karen Page, and boom shoots the guy right off a fuckin skyscraper how could i NOT talk about this, okay?

4. Being thrown to the ground

listen, he looks good a little roughed up, alright? what are you, a fuckin cop or somethin? aint it my right as a living, breathing, human being to enjoy pretty boys being thrown around a lil sometimes? damn

for reference: the first photo was when he was pretending to be Matt, trying to deal with some mob bosses. one of them got angry and pushed him down. the second was when mike was first introduced in the soule/noto run. bad guys bust into the bar hes at and matt throws him behind cover lmfao

3. this EXCELLENT reintroduction in the 2020 annual

the 2020 annual is when we get mike's whole backstory and THIS is the first panel we see him in. this is genuinely poetic. mike murdock wouldnt exist without first being made-up by matt (and matt pretending to be mike). we all know the story of matt losing his eye sight, he pushed a person out of the way of a van that was carrying toxic chemicals, blah blah

well. here we are yet again. except everythings flipped on its head. mike is pretending to be matt. he's jumping in front of this van to make the guys think theyve hit him so he can help rob them. he isnt saving anyone but he sure as hell is putting himself in danger. it sets the tone for his whole character. its just. yeah. this was fantastic, honestly.

2. his reaction to butch assualting hammerhead

okay so this was the moment in vol 6 that genuinely caught my complete attention. this was the moment i realized just how different and special mike was.

murdocks are known for, well, violence. jack was a boxer, he wanted matt to grow up and be nothing like him. he didnt want matt to fight only for matt to become daredevil later in life. we are led to believe there's almost this inherent violent streak to being "a murdock"

this is after a mob boss meeting, mike is watching hammerhead (a boss) from the shadows, helping butch keep track of him. he lets butch know where hammerhead is. butch proceeds to threaten hammerhead, bash his head into a car, yell at him, then gouge one of his eyes out.

and, well. this was mike's reaction.

this is the first time we are given a glimpse of mike's morals, his values. besides how much he cares for the people close to him, we find out he has an aversion to violence. he's a career criminal, i'm not saying he doesnt know how to throw a punch, but he goes out of his way to avoid it.

he's repeatedly shown to be a voice of reason, a mediator, and every time a violent solution is brought up, he immediately protests and wants to figure out a different way. that's fascinating to me.

he's breaking the mold of being "a murdock" in the most unexpected way. we think he must be so much like jack to so easily get involved in crime (with even jack saying so himself), but here we are shown that's wrong.

i wish we could've gotten his and butch's convo directly after this. also, another thing, mike's reaction to people he cares about doing something he doesnt approve of isn't to get angry, it's to worry. which, again. fascinating. admirable, even.

when he finds out matt's "in rehab" he's worried, and yeah a little angry, but mostly concerned for his brother. even after this incident, we are seen mike being very worried later. he's concerned for butch's mental state and wants to stop him from making any rash decisions (ie killing someone)

but, yeah. sorry for the damn essay (and heres another) anyways

trying to save wilson fisk from being assassinated

christs sake hes so fucking gorgeous. also ignore matt being an asshole here because that's all he ever did when mike was around.

this was another very interesting moment in which we see mike's strong morals on full display. we are repeatedly told mike isn't the kind of person to be trusted, he doesnt take things seriously, he's morally ambiguous yada yada. and yet.

as soon as he finds out butch is planning to maybe (which he later find out he's correct about) put a hit on wilson fisk, wilson fuckin fisk, he wants to stop it. mike is under the impression that killing someone is not a line you can cross and come back from. he's deeply concerned about the path his friend is headed down.

In this scene, he's coming to visit foggy in the hospital to talk to him about maybe getting butch out of jail while also hoping to catch daredevil there. he does, obviously.

his full intention is to team up with daredevil to try and take fisk down. mike thinks if he can take fisk down it'll stop butch from trying to kill him.

him going to daredevil also shows his ability to extend his compassion to others. he has no fuckin reason to trust daredevil. daredevil has done nothing but insult mike, yell and argue with him, and even rough him up a couple of times. and still, mike decides to reach out because he knows daredevil is supposed to be a good guy. he also knows daredevil is supposed to be matt's close friend.

he brings it up more than once that the reason he trusts daredevil is because of matt being his friend (despite mike and matt supposedly not being close).

so, yeah, i got a little off-topic, but that's why i love this scene so much. it shows not only how deeply mike cares for people, but also his compassion and aversion to violence. he's trying to take care of his best friend and trust daredevil despite their differences. he's showing how good of a person he is and how dedicated he is to his cause of a "bloodless" coup.

-----

if you made it this far fuckin THANKS, mike is my favoritest most specialist boy lmao and this turned into a character study high key but im not mad about it

[doks-aux]

The idea of William Afton genuinely loving his children is so much more interesting to me than the alternative, not just because it's more tragic and makes his motivations make more sense, but also because it's fucking hilarious.

You are about to be obliterated from this Earth by a six-foot-something zombie rabbit, and your last moments are spent terrified and deeply confused as he shows you pictures of his kids in a blood-stained wallet: a clearly haunted bear costume, a limitlessly unnerving chrome clown doll, and what looks like Grimace's corpse left to shrivel in the sun.

[eggsaladstain]

thinking about how mike flanagan's first netflix series ended with the crain family together, both in death and in life

and his last netflix series ended with the entire usher bloodline 6 feet under, buried side by side (with lenore in the same row as madeline and roderick instead of the row below with frederick and the others) but no more a family in death than they were in life

the haunting of hill house and the fall of the house of usher feel very much like two sides of the same coin - a home built with love will stand for centuries, but a house built without that foundation will crumble and leave no survivors

[tryingonametaphor]

Why Will Byers?

An analysis and theory on why Henry/Vecna targeted Will first in season 1 and his plans for Will in season 5

‼️Contains The First Shadow (TFS) spoilers so please proceed with caution.‼️

This is going to be a little long but I’ve tried to give as much context as I can without actually being able to show snippets from the stage play. This is my interpretation of everything that went down as a member of the audience and not as someone who has read up any theories about TFS before. To understand why Henry took Will first in 1983, we have to start with -

Henry and Joyce

From all the times I’ve watched TFS, the one thing that has stuck with me is the final conversation Henry has with Joyce. It’s just before his last confrontation with Patty Newby and before he joins Brenner for good. Joyce is the last person (who doesn’t know about Henry’s powers) that he canonically talks to.

Throughout the entire play Joyce, Hopper, and Bob are investigating the animals dying at the hands of Henry and come to the conclusion that Victor Creel has been the one doing the killing. They get so close to solving the case. In her last conversation with Henry, Joyce tries to comfort him by saying that Victor will pay for his crimes - which makes Henry laugh because she’s so close yet so far from the truth. He gets a little frustrated and says something along the lines of “You don’t get it. But someday you will.” (edit 28/9: the exact dialogue is [Henry: you’re too nice. that is how they’ll get you. you have to learn to do anything you can to protect the ones you love] [Joyce: I don’t understand.] [Henry: You will.]) The next time we see Henry make a reappearance in Joyce’s life is during -

The Vanishing of Will Byers

Will is taken into the Upside Down (UD) by Henry. It’s not even a question anymore. All of the context clues from 1x1 lead us to believe that Will’s kidnapping was not by a demogorgon. Will - a 12 year old - miraculously survives a week in the upside down with no food or water. Will is even around the demogorgon a few times in the Upside Down. (Joyce communicating with Will through the lights and then the demogorgon coming after her immediately).

Barb dies the night she is taken but Will stays alive and also somehow manages to talk to Joyce through the wall. Joyce is led exactly to where Will was held at the end of s1 and he makes it out alive. It’s almost as if Henry knew all along that Joyce was the most capable of never giving up on finding her son. Like Henry took Will Byers because he was Joyce’s son. And like he was giving her just enough to know that Will was alive. Even when Joyce and Hopper find him at the end in a state of near death, he’s not injured by a creature. He was being prepared for the next stage of Vecna’s plan -

The Possession of Will Byers

The origins of Henry’s powers happen as such - As a kid, he is transported into the UD (originally coined Dimension X by the government) for a few hours because he touched something he wasn’t meant to touch. During his time in there, he came in contact with the Mind Flayer (MF). According to TFS this is the point in his life when he started getting “corrupted”. Brenner’s dad - who was one of the first people to enter dimension X - had mutated blood after but no powers. Henry was the first person to come in contact with the MF and it’s highly likely he got his powers because of this (This would also track considering how most of the party has been in the UD now but show no signs of having powers). The MF controls Henry for the rest of TFS and Henry grows more power hungry the more he kills.

In S2, Henry presumably sends the MF after Will - who has now had a year to heal from the events of 1983. Will is the only other person in all of ST to have had direct contact with the MF and survived it. Henry didn’t hesitate to kill Billy in S3, but he always gives everyone just enough to keep Will safe. Will himself tells Owens in S2 that the MF wants to kill everyone except him. Will once again survives the entire ordeal and is given a “break” for the next 2 seasons. Except I don’t believe he’s been just given a break. I think Will is -

Henry’s Sleeper Agent.

Ready to awaken in s5. I undoubtedly think that Will is going to have powers. And I don’t think they’re going to be the same as Henry and El. El and the other lab kids get their powers directly from Henry. Will’s powers will be directly from the MF like Henry. I believe this has been Henry’s plan all along and it’s further affirmed by what he tells Will in the recent VR game. That Will will be the key to Henry being able to infiltrate his friends’ minds. Jamie Campbell-Bower also mentioned during the S4 press that to get in character, he set up a display with all of Henry’s victims and targets’ faces on his wall(?), and Will was in the center.

Henry is going to use his connection with Will sneakily and midway through S5 he’s going to awaken Will’s powers (maybe in ep4 - which is said to be titled ‘Sorcerer’ and has young Will in it). Henry is going to try and manipulate his way into making an ally out of Will, and it’s not going to work because -

Will is the Perfect Character Foil.

Will is everything Henry could have been if he had a better support system. He is the perfect character foil. Unlike Henry, Will has a mother who loves him unconditionally and more importantly, believes him. Unlike Henry, the person who Will loves the most (the Patty to Will’s Henry: Mike) is going to love him back and stay by his side all season. No one is going to force them to be apart the way Henry was told to stay away from Patty. Will is not going to be easily swayed even though Henry has spent years crafting him into the perfect soldier. Sure, Henry has seen him heartbroken and sad, but that comes nowhere near to the amount of love and support Will is going to get from his people next season. And they’re going to quite literally defeat Vecna with the power of love and friendship. After that, Will Byers is getting the happy ending that Henry could have gotten.

[millionsknives]

i don’t think i’ve rewatched atla since becoming a committed pacifist and i just finished what was probably my tenth rewatch and i have never loved aang more. i've seen it so many times but i still came away with a new appreciation for the way the end of the story was handled. aang is the only survivor of a genocide and he is clinging to the last remnants of his culture and religion, and everyone is telling him the only way to save the world is to kill the dictator whose regime is responsible for the genocide, but to do so would abandon the deeply held beliefs of his people. if aang goes against his beliefs and kills ozai, his people's way of life dies completely and sozin wins.

aang knows it would be wrong but he can't see another way out so he prays for an answer, and the universe hears him and the spirits send out the lion turtle, and the creator answers him. and here's the thing that i never put together before today: aang would not have been able to energybend ozai if he had given in and wanted to kill him. the lion turtle tells aang that only the incorruptible can bend another’s energy, or else they will become corrupted themselves. and i think that aang, because of his love for the fire nation as he had once known it, was never corrupted by personal hatred for the fire lord or the fire nation. he was able to expertly hold two conflicting beliefs in harmony better than any adult could, the belief that ozai is a horrible person and the world would be better off without him and that he's still a human being with a life that is sacred.

and i don't think it's a matter of selfishness like some people make it out to be. aang is not some immature little kid who doesn't want to kill because killing is for bad guys. he's an incredibly wise and spiritual person who was shaped by airbender beliefs and upholds airbender beliefs, and he can see beyond the scope of this war. the balance of the world depends on the existence of the four nations, and aang does not just represent the air nomads, he IS the air nomads. he's all that's left.

despite many people’s interpretation of the four past avatars’ advice, none of the past avatars outright tell him to kill ozai. they tell him to be decisive, to bring justice, to be proactive, to be sacrificial. but none of them tells him definitively to kill him. he doesn't disobey or ignore their advice, he follows their ancient wisdom while still staying true to his beliefs. yangchen actually comes the closest to outright telling him to kill ozai (even more than kiyoshi, surprisingly) but what she fails to account for is that aang is not just the avatar, he is the last airbender, and being the last airbender is far greater a burden than being the avatar. no matter what happens, once he dies, there will always be another avatar. but if he is not careful to preserve the airbender way of life, there will be no more airbenders. yangchen could sacrifice her air nomad way of life for the sake of her duty to the world because there were thousands of other air nomads to continue their traditions. aang has no such privilege.

and it's not that he doesn't want to kill, it's that he actually doesn't think he can do it -- both that he won't be able to emotionally bring himself to kili someone, and, prodigy that he is, he doesn't have the raw bending skill to overcome a comet-powered master firebender. and then it turns from 'i don't think i can do it' into ‘i can’t do it.’ and when the avatar state gives him enough power to actually do it, he changes the answer to ‘i won’t do it.’ he overcomes all the combined power of his past lives to say no, i have found another answer and i will remain incorruptible. to kill is to maintain the power struggle of the fire nation and to reject air nomad wisdom and without airbenders the world CANNOT be brought into balance.

the only thing ozai cares about is power, and that's what the entire fight with ozai is about, physically and ideologically, because ozai only sees power in terms of force, fear, threats, and violence. to ozai, aang (and his entire people) are weak and undeserving of life because they are largely pacifists, but he fails to see the magnificent power that the airbenders do hold, spiritual wisdom and mastery of the self and contentment and joy and harmony and a deep understanding of the world that a man like ozai could never obtain. to kill ozai would ratify ozai’s worldview that power as he defines it is the most important pursuit in the world and the only way to assert one's right to be in the world is to be cruel and violent like him. i think to ozai, becoming powerless might be worse than being dead. he wants power, or he wants death, and aang gives him neither. it upends everything he believed in. aang, the avatar, but more importantly, the last airbender, armed by his past lives' power and his people's love and the spirit world's blessing and the lion turtle's omniscience (and toph's mastery of true sight through neutral jing), ends the war 100 years to the day after the air nomad genocide, in the way that his people taught him, with power that goes beyond force and violence, with spiritual wisdom, with an incorruptible soul, with mercy -- mercy that is not weakness, mercy that brings justice.

[gayofthefae]

Lmao I just realized they made sure he took off his visor so we could take him seriously during the fight

[byler-invested]

Why Will x Chance (bychance) REALLY IS going to happen… 😳

(…temporarily let’s hope…)

Let’s first pay attention to this scene and ask ourselves why it was included at all…

“I see he’s taken a step down from Max…”

Haha such a funny line, get it? Because Erica’s insulting Jason by implying that not only is he gay for Lucas, but also a mediocre option… right? Right???

Except… lines in Stranger Things NEVER mean only one thing.

The actual double meaning/ foreshadowing:

“I see he’s taken a step down from Mike…” 😬

— us Bylers in 2025

…

But Erica doesn’t stop here. She goes:

“Chances are, he’s with your cheater boyfriend”.

That’s right! In this very same conversation, they included the words “Chance”, “cheater” and “boyfriend” in the same sentence. Very curious.

…

Now let’s take a closer look at the D&D miniature that Erica is painting in the beginning of the video.

A young male warrior painted in orange?

This surely isn’t an analogy for a young male jock in an orange Tiger mascot uniform, amirite? 🐅

…

Holy shit, these should be enough clues, right?

Oh, no. No, no… There’s more. 😭

The locker room posted by the Duffers, belonging to “Jock #2”. We’re looking at a basket ball, a physical science book, and…

…a car sketch. Which is “only” the symbol widely used by Netflix to symbolize bisexual men. Cue Steve Harrington’s bedroom, the movie Red, White & Royal Blue, and the show Heartstopper.

(There is an actual post here on Tumblr which details everything about this ^).

…

Oh, what’s that in Will’s bedroom?

A Tiger wearing a sombrero…

Is it possible Will has a thing for Latinos? 🤭

Not Chance being the mexican jock foil version of Mike…….

Oh Duffers you are SO unserious…….

…

Funnily enough, there is even one more clue, which I’m however not yet sure of (I have to rewatch the show).

Chance’s real first name seems to be Jedediah (yes, ridiculous). Jason supposedly addresses him by “Jed” in the show (I have to confirm this).

“Beloved of God”.

…Who in the show is God/Jesus coded…?

That’s right… Will. 🧙‍♂️

*the (Byler) plot thickens*

[dusty-daydreams]

I saw someone suggest the idea that the Ushers all represent a deadly sin - here is which I think they are and why

Prospero - Lust

Camille - wrath

Leo - gluttony

Vic - sloth

Tamerlane - pride

Fred - envy

The Twins (Roderick and Madeline) - greed

Prospero is Lust, not only because of his hedonism but his unabashed Lust for power - he is filming his anonymous orgy so he can blackmail powerful people and dies in the midst of his orgy - but I could also see him as sloth (wouldn’t come up with a proper business proposal, didn’t bother to check that the tanks held water not acid)

Camille is Wrath, she approaches everything - her siblings, her job, her assistants/lovers and verna in the end with rage - and she gets killed by an angry animal

Leo is Gluttony - he indulges himself in abundant drugs and abundant sexual partners, despite having a relatively good situation - he has a successful career that doesn’t put him directly under his fathers control, he has a committed caring partner but still he gluts himself on everything that comes his way, he dies chasing a cat that hunts far more than it needs too

Victorine is Sloth - she doesn’t want to put in the work needed too make her device work, she just takes shortcuts to make it seem like it is working, she kills her partner in part because her partner who is actually the skilled surgeon doesn’t want to do the work anymore (admittedly this one I’m not as sure on - she might be pride, refusing to admit her device doesn’t work out of fear of failure)

Tamerlane is Pride - Of all her siblings she is the most proud of being an usher, and the most obsessed with her own image, obsessed with beauty, obsessed with being a success, she will not take anyone’s advice not even her husbands, she is proud and controlling in her relationship forcing her husband to go along with her voyeuristic kink when he doesn’t want too. This is a double-edged sword as she is also deeply insecure, outsourcing intimacy and dying as a result of smashing mirrors attempting to prevent Verna taking her place (alternatively she could be envy - envious of Verna etc.)

Fred is Envy - he is envious of his father and his effortless command presence and his fathers success, and he is envious of his wife, punishing her horrifically purely because he believes she cheated on him, (even though she didn’t, all she did was think about it and go to a party where she was alone) he is so envious that he even makes an attempted coup against his father. (He could also be gluttony - his drugs, and dying because putting more and more nightshade in his coke)

Finally the Twins - Roderick and Madeline are Greed - They set everything in motion because they both always wanted more, more money, more recognition, more power, even immortality - through AI in Madeline’s case and in the creation of a bloodline legacy in Roderick’s

I also have one thing to add I think that Lenore (and Annabel Lee and Juno and Morella - Lenore’s mom) represent the seven capital virtues: these are chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness and humility.

Chasity - Lenore dies before she ever has a relationship, she is in gothic story terms a chaste innocent

Temperance - Lenore seems disgusted by her dad having done drugs (also Juno is Temperance, her wisdom in coming to her own conclusion to wean herself off Ligodine)

Charity - As Verna says the charity her mom starts is a result of Lenore saving her mom (also Juno and Morella donating to charity)

Diligence - Lenore sticks to what is right even when it’s hard, giving a statement to the police about her dad, caring for her grandfather, searching for treatment options for her mom (also Juno diligently weaning herself of drugs, Morella’s charity work, Annabel Lee caring for her children)

Patience - Lenore patiently encourages her family to do better and be better

Kindness - Lenore saves her mother, and creates a ripple effect that saves millions of lives (Annabel Lee being kind to everyone)

Humility - Lenore thinks that losing their fortune and company could be a good thing that leads to a moral good for her family

[fumifooms]

My life’s been a lie. I need to know where the misconception that Mickbell & Kuro open a noodle shop post-canon comes from

Kuro and Mickbell’s profiles both talk about it as if it’s a store that sells a bit of everything. A variety store, なんでも屋。

Mickbell’s sentence on the topic is 現在はクロとともに、なんでも屋を営んでいる。 And Kuro’s is 現在もミックベルにこき使われつつ、いっしょになんでも屋を営む。 No mention of noodles whatsoever. "Currently running an all-purpose shop with Kuro." "He is still being worked hard by Mickbell, and together they run a store that sells everything."

I thought maybe the confusion was because Mithrun’s profile had a similar wording that made people think it was the same thing, but Mithrun’s line straight up doesn’t mention anything about a store or noodles either, so. The assumption that Mithrun opens a noodle shop is fully from the comic about Fleki asking Mithrun to be pardoned, where really he only says offhandedly he’ll try making some.

Mick and Kuro’s Knicks Knacks!! It does suit them real well. I just wonder where they get their stock…

[murdockmeta]

There's something that really hurts about Mike trying to offer Butch a solution to his problems so he doesn't have to kill anyone only for Butch to get angry at Mike and saying he "never takes anything serious." And then, despite this, the next time we see Mike he's calling Butch to try and make amends.

There's something about him stopping by to bring Foggy flowers and Matt immediately assuming Mike is lying and in general Matt thinking Mikes always trying to run some "get rich quick" scheme while Mike's actually trying to do good that. really hurts.

There's something about Mike repeatedly showing loyalty, dedication, morality, and bravery only for people to call him flaky, unserious, sleazy, and a fake that really. really. hurts.

[aroceu]

i've been rewatching the good place with a friend lately so i've been thinking about it a lot and i just keep thinking

about how eleanor says so much that she's not a bad person, she's just a "medium" person. she didn't kill anyone, she didn't technically abuse anyone, she was selfish but not "horrible," she was human.

except when we see eleanor pre-death, we see something different. no, she didn't murder anyone. but she was pretty horrible. she was really good at lying to elderly people to sell them fake drugs. she abused her friend's dog. she lied to her coworkers to get out of driving for them at the bar. she felt so threatened by people feeling like they were better than her that when she saw concrete proof that a coffee shop manager was misogynistic and sexually assaulted someone, she enthusiastically supported the cafe to be contrary to her boyfriend.

she is very obviously a horrible person. even in season 2, michael calls her a manipulative demon; that's not something you get called if you're just a "medium" person. what we're told, and what her reasoning is a lie. but she doesn't know it. it's a lie to the viewers.

she also stands in stark contrast with jason—who has broken the law multiple times, has gotten arrested multiple times, likes celebrities and hobbies that have a terrible reputation (not just for being "trash" but for being actively hateful), and even if he might not have killed someone, there's probably something in his repertoire that comes close. but at the same time, it's very, very obvious to see that he's a good-hearted person, who wants to do more good than harm. compared to eleanor, whose bad actions are much smaller in comparison, but her bad personality makes her less likable, and much worse. yes, of course it's about environment—but it's also about how goodness might be more accurately judged by intent than by action.

i saw someone say that it was unrealistic that eleanor didn't call chidi a racial slur when she was a white woman from arizona. sentimentally, i agree with the realism argument. but at the same time, i think it would've been out of place. eleanor would know that saying a slur is on a different level of wrong. a lot of the bad things she did were indirect; it was a lot about what she did when no one was looking. but she didn't want to see herself as a horrible person, so she wouldn't have wanted anyone to see either. as long as they didn't get too close for her.

eleanor being a "medium" person is a lie. of course she belongs in the bad place. she's initially presented as a "medium person" because the story wants us to be on her side, wants us to believe that she's as human as us, until the season one flashbacks start to tell a different story. then it makes us squint and go, no, eleanor really is a terrible person. but the show is aware of this too!

and yet, the thesis of the show is that bad people can always get better. that no one is beyond rehabilitation; that society fucks us up but it's still the choices that we make that mean the most about who we are in the end. we get to see the growth of eleanor's good person journey through the entirety of season one, so that even as we realize she was a shitty person on earth, we're still rooting for her by the end of it. season one is the show's entire thesis; seasons two through four are just proving it to us. and eleanor proves herself to us over and over again, so that even as we know how terrible she was, and how terrible she's capable of being, we still know and believe that she belongs in the good place at the end.

[doks-aux]

The Fredbear animatronic was going through its programmed routine when it bit down on Crying Child's head. Who's to say it stopped there? Did it keep moving? Did it turn its head side-to-side, shaking CC's limp body like a rabbit in a hound's jaws? Did it finally open its mouth again and drop his body at his brother's feet? Did William see all of this while shoving his way in slow motion through a panicking crowd?

[findafight]

RE the posts about Nancy and Jon just kinda leaving the kids to their own devices; I find it very telling that in season four that despite Steve complaining a number of times about being the babysitter, none of the kids raise any objections to him being the babysitter, despite what it implies about them. It’s Nancy who reminds him “they aren’t babies anymore”.

I used to find that kind of funny, the idea that they might kind of like being babied a bit by Steve (for whom indulging younger kids is still a novelty). And it’s fascinating to me how Mike in particular, despite regarding Steve with utter disdain, feels entitled to Steve’s time and attention. Even *months* after Nancy has broken up with him, and Mike could just follow her lead and not have anything more to do with him, *Mike’s* the one ringing the service bell until Robin shouts for Steve.

The kids are maybe a little bit clingier than we or the characters give them credit for, eh?

(This reading gets really interesting when you consider that out of all the teens/adults, Steve’s probably worked/fought alongside them the most and knows full well what they’re capable of.)

I think Steve being someone the younger teens look up to as both a friend and as a leader is probably key. The age difference between them is enough that it makes a difference in how they look up to him and small enough that they'll be functional equals given a few years, but that they'll still defer to him. They like Steve! I think they like knowing that there's someone older willing to call some of the shots and take the heat y'know? Even if they also want to contribute to the decisions it's nice for them to know he has their backs.

Tbh I think Mike and Steve butt heads for the bit. Like they biker and groan about each other but Steve still thinks of Mike as maybe kind of annoying (as are. All fourteen year olds 🫡) one of his (mildly ungrateful) little friends. Of course it would be Mike ringing the bell repeatedly, he and Mike show friendly affection by being obnoxious motherfuckers to each other.

Sooo correct that what makes it different than Nancy and Jon, was that even though they've all gone through Upside Down stuff, Nancy and Jon went through it together, while Steve went through it, starting in S2, with the young teens. They see him and even though they stop Billy from killing him he saves them (specifically Mike!!) In the tunnels. It sort of establishes Steve as someone they KNOW is going to take charge to help them. They can and have! Mike knows he can rely on Nancy, probably, but he doesn't have the same...proof? I guess? That he does of Steve.

I think it's natural for them, even as they get older, to defer to Steve. He's sort of invincible to them, and they trust him. Does this make sense? They can call their own shots but I think maybe they'll also go "right, Steve?" Even if just in their brains.

[tryingonametaphor]

You vs. We

i rewatched the first shadow yesterday and i think there’s a hentty/byler/mlvn parallel worth noting. (spoilers for TFS ahead⚠️)

when henry is taken by brenner for the first time and brenner asks him to make contact with the mind flayer, patty tries to reach out to him so he lets her into his mind in the void. when she sees him strapped down in the lab, she runs to his side, holds his hand and talks to him. it looks exactly like the way mike’s monologue is framed in s4. and that’s where the similarities end.

patty holds the unconscious henry’s hand, but in the void, she’s still looking at henry when she talks and henry’s looking back at her. she says something along the lines of “if you leave, we can run away and find my mother. we can fight the monster together, you and me.”

and this made me realise the glaring difference between how mike talks to el and how mike talks to will. the entirety of his monologue is “you can do this,” and “you can do that, el!” meanwhile at the end of s4, when will says “we have to kill him,” mike says “and we will. we will.”

(all the gifs used in this post are by @will80sbyers!)

that’s not the only time mike uses “we” or “us” when he talks to will about a fight against the enemy. here are some more examples:

and how he segues into talking about his first meeting with el vs. his first meeting with will:

in his monologue to el, you is el, we is mike, dustin, and lucas.

mike sees el as the other. as someone he cannot imagine as his equal, and it reflects in the way he talks to her. this doesn’t surprise me considering it is exactly what he tells will in the van. but mike and will have had no issues seeing each other as equals. even after mike saw will possessed and powerful. and even though will considers mike the leader of the party, he doesn’t think mike is above him. they stand on equal grounds in their relationship.

[metamatronic]

Ok so I very rapidly went through your William was framed AU, and I noticed that your Micheal is making himself look young again.

Like he should be about 50+ by the time of VR

So either he just stopped aging after being scooped or the sadder alternative that he feels like that portion of his life was ripped away from him and he deserves a bit of it back via the illusion disks

The moody answer is that Michael’s always been dysphoric about his own age because he was so detached from the world and single-minded in his goal to Solve Every Problem™ between 1987-2020. So he feels too jaded to be twenty-something and not worldly or mature enough to be in his fifties.

The funny answer is that if he made himself older he’d look even more like William than he already does, which despite their father-son relationship improving significantly post-Fazbear Fright, is still the bane of his existence.

[gayofthefae]

Similarly to how El has that progression of eating Eggos less onscreen and having it often tied to Mike - with her not touching them at breakfast then leaving before they come at the diner -

I also just noticed that while in season 1, Mike loves waffles too, in season 4, we see him make breakfast in the toaster on his way out the door and - instead of a writers' nod to her - he's making pop tarts (while arguing about his flight to see her - "no sweetie pie"). Then, at the Byers, I checked with the guess that maybe he had waffles but just didn't eat them like her but nope, in fact, he just has toast instead.

As of season 4, Mike has moved on from Eggos. He repeatedly chooses things over them, while El is just beginning to leave them when offered to her.

Edit:

And this apparently! @myloverdior