#might start to think that Lilith could be the main antagonist

[thisonesock]

Since my hyperfixation is kicking in and I am bored, I started researching a bit about the religious background to Hazbin Hotel and its connection to actual Religious Sources. Especially Lilith, since she is not only a big question mark but also portrayed in the final scene as a giant red flag. (Thank you, creepy foreshadowing music in the background). So let’s just gather what I found in in my two hour search. I just point out, these are all my personal consumptions and interpretations that I could make through the meager things I have found. I will show you the things I have found out and then tell you, what I think could be possible. I won’t put the sources in, since most of them are German, but if anyone of you wants them anyway, just write me and I give them to you. So let’se go then!

Lilith is an extremely interesting character from a religious point of view because she has many characteristics. There isn’t that much about her, but let’s gather what I have found.

She is mostly seen as the equivalent of Eve and is often seen as a modern-day figurehead of feminism because she refused to submit to the patriarchy. She did not want to submit to Adam, especially in a sexual sense. (She's a top bitch, not a bottom. That might also be the explanation why Lilith wanted Adam gone and Lute replace him.) This eventually lead to her banishment from Eden. After her Eve was made and that lead to a natural rivalry between the two woman.

There are also texts that say that Lilith and Eve are two sides of the same coin. Lilith, as an independent, wild woman, Eva as a family loyal, submissive mother who has been told all her life how dangerous Lilith is.

Both women meet one day, exchange ideas and finally decide to work together and be independent. ➡️ That gives a fucking lot to make theories about the future episodes. Eve and Lilith working together could open so many doors. And when we maybe work with the idea, that both woman look the same, let’s see what can be done with that.

There are theories that the woman in the flashback of episode 5 Eve is. Both of them working together could explain why Eve would be able to get into Liliths Place. It explains the connection to Charlie and why pictures are more motherly role in that scene.

Lilith, that way, could easily replace Eve in Heaven. (Adam has been in Heaven, so why wouldn’t Eve, right? We have seen nothing or her or have a mention of her since the Overture in the first episode.) Maybe Lute found about about the secret that Eve and Lilith have and threatens to tattletale? My theories aren’t fleshed out yet and there are many open questions and things that debunk them. So let’s just leave those here and move on, shall we?

Lilith is also referred to in many traditions (in Jewish text elements and in Aramaic) as a child murderer. This is said to have been a punishment for her rebellion in Eden. As a result, she is said to only suffer stillbirths; being infertile (or have demon children, but I haven't found much on this) and actively murder newborns and, something I've come across quite often, her own children. Lilith is also (in the old testament) often equated with a deadly danger. She is often directly associated with snakes and birds of prey. (venomousness and quick grabbing).

So what can we do with that information? Well, it's a damn good explanation why the woman just packed her bags and left without a word for seven years. It would also explain the final scene with Lilith in heaven, where Lute demands she does something about Charlie.

So, since I am tired and don’t have the brain energy to look further, is just leave this here and let you all do with it, what ya want. I remind, most of that is my personal interpretation and it is possible that I didn’t get things quite right. Feel free to add something or correct me. I’m not free from flaws, especially when I’m sleep deprived!

[phantomwitch16]

Hazbin Hotel Theory: Lilith

I had never posted about Hazbin Hotel before, but I came across a theory about Lilith that I wanted to discuss. I’ve only seen clips, so correct me if I'm wrong. So, anyone who hasn't watched anything or hasn't caught up yet, WARNING: SPOILER ZONE.

At this point, everyone is quite aware of the Lilith/ Eve Theory, where Lilith left or was kidnapped by Eve to explain her disappearance for most of the show and what she was doing in Heaven. I think the theory has some promise, but some things don’t feel quite right.

In the episode where Lucifer first appears, we learn that Lilith and Lucifer seem to have split years ago. We don't know how long ago or the circumstances of the separation, with it pretty much up in the air.

It could be possible that Lucifer’s depression could've gotten in the way of their relationship (similar to his relationship with Charlie), causing some friction. This obviously would give Lilith a lot of responsibility, likely to raise Charlie and inspire the denizens of Hell by herself. We don't know much about what Lucifer does most of the time other than making ducks, keeping Lulu World running and wallowing in his depression.

I don't think that they split up, at least I don’t think that’s the whole story. There have been some odd details regarding Lilith and a few other people within the series that do add to the theory. While it's possible things might have changed during the development of the series, Viv has previously stated that Lilith and Lucifer were a very lovey-dovey couple and I doubt that she would change it. While I think their relationship would have its faults, obviously with their history and trauma, yeah, that was going to happen, but not the stereotypically 'my partner hates me' bs.

Even if they had split up, I doubt that Lilith would have just up and left Charlie without saying anything.

But anyway, since her appearance on the beach with Lute, there have been several theories about Lilith and whether she would be an antagonist or the main one. I disagree, but given how she's been pretty much a mystery for most of the series, with not much being said about her, it’s understandable most would come to this conclusion. But I doubt Lilith would be because Lilith was the one to instil Charlie to help the denizens of Hell so for her to come to disrupt her progress with the Hotel.

This obviously leads to the Lilith/Eve Theory people have come up with by what people have seen and picked apart from the show and the cards that people received before it aired. Now people who have watched the show and been on Twiiter/X or any other social media probs already know the theory, but I'll spell it out for those who don't.

Just before the show aired, people received cards on each character and a few select items in the series. Of these characters was Lilith, but there was something off with it. Instead of seeing a revamp of her original design in the pilot, it's just a close up with her face shadowed.

The image above has Lilith or who we think is Lilith sitting with her hand over her lips and a shadow over her face, only showing a sinister smile. The one thing strikes me about it was the was almost like she know that we know there was something wrong with the image and was telling us to be quiet.

So far in the show, we've only seen her in the portraits that are decorated around the hotel and in Lucifer's ducky workshop. She makes a brief appearance in Charlie’s flashbacks where we don’t even see her face, though this is largely because the attention was focused on Charlie and Lucifer. Here it shows that even her look has remained largely consistent since the pilot.

What truly defines Lilith design is her long wavy hair. But despite it, there is something different about it in the card. It's very long, obviously but as it gets closer to her face, it starts to look more uneven. Or jagged.

But what grabs the attention in the card is the smile. It looks very sharp and angular, very different to the smile that she has in the portraits and in her depiction on the storybook in the first episode.

But we've already seen it somewhere. Just not on Lilith.

Obviously, this isn't a new take. This is a very popular take that nearly everyone has heard.

I like to think that with the reveal, we will get a more factual retelling of what happened when Lilith and Lucifer rather than what came out of the story book Charlie was reading, likely something her mother made for her when she was growing up. Mainly what happened to Eve as they cleverly avoided it. While we don't know if they're going to tackle it, it's likely that they will discuss Eve's life after eating the fruit and her very long life. I think that while Adam was sent to heaven to become one of the exterminators, Eve became one of the first original sinners sent to Hell.

There are several ways they could handle it with it's possible the Eve is starting a little bit of chaos using the knowledge Lilith and Lucifer gave her. With Lilith attempting to stop her alongside Lute and the rest of Heaven.

For what reason? She could've taken up a new identity after death. that identity being called Roo. Or more specifically, the Root of All Evil.

Roo is someone that's been known for since 2019 and someone Viv is excited to introduce since she first drew her, calling her a looming threat amongst the series. Hints of her appearance have been placed throughout the pilot on the tower and on the show. I believe that Lilith, Lute and Eve are working together with Heaven to track down Roo to destroy her hold on Earth or to prevent her from doing something to Hell, Heaven and Earth.

It's also likely that she is the demon Alastor is chained to. Why her specifically and not Lilith? Besides the timeline matching, there is very little opportunity for them to meet. Even though Alastor has made a big name for himself in the Pride Ring, Lucifer has not heard of him, so why would Lilith? But that just might be a Lucifer thing, they probably could've met after one of Lilith's shows or something.

Knowing Alastor as a person, he would've been in a very desperate situation, or maybe he was too cocky like with Adam and picked a fight with her, thinking that she was some random Overlord or low ranking demon who knocked him down and stole his soul. With her having control over him, then he is willing to do anything to get out of their agreement. Whether its to play around and isolate the princess of Hell from her support network, to make her hopes and dreams crumble to dust.

It could be possible Lilith left Charlie and Lucifer to focus on Roo, with it likely that Lucifer knows what's she's up to and tries to shield her from what's happening. But as the hotel gets more popular, Roo's attention is directed to it, thus putting Charlie and all three realms in danger. Lilith would come to Charlie, try to sugarcoat it as best as possible before revealing Roo as a threat. Then when she comes there, Alastor betrays them, but as he is free, has a change of heart and attempts to help.

That's what i think anyway.

[barblaz-arts]

HELLOOO!! Im in LOVE with all your Chaggie (and Wenclair obv-) art!! I was wondering if youd be up to share your thoughts on the other hazbin characters? Simply cuz Im very curious and youve been a favourite content creator of mine for a while whose opinions and takes on different things i value A LOT! So id love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the main cast(and more if youre up to it hahha)!

@phantoswordsman15

The main cast huh

Hmmmmm I dont particularly hate them, but I have some opinions that people might not like and I'm aware there's a lot of uh sensitive people in this fandom, so I never said them unprompted

But since you asked!

Alastor

Let's start with the infamous Alastor. I think he's a very entertaining character! His horde of simps annoy tf outta me when they're being misogynistic and homophobic towards Chaggie and Vaggie, but I quite liked him when I make myself forget certain parts of the fandom. He's funny and conniving and intriguing. The fact that he apparently sold his soul is super interesting to me. I'm on board with the people theorizing that he sold his soul to Lilith. I bet he's cozying up with Charlie so that he can use it to break his contract somehow. Feel like he also used the deal with (presumably) Lilith so that he could be strong enough to be the overlord he became.

With that being said, I'm really surprised with the direction they took with him. You'd think that with him being a favorite of the showrunner and the fandom, he would probably be portrayed as the coolest mf in hell. But I really like that it isn't really the case within the show. Certain denizens dont even know him and older overlords like Zestial seems to scare him and Carmilla just dgaf about him. Hell, Alastor's loss to Adam was a lil embarrassing ngl. Like. I know he's one of the oldest human souls and that's why he's powerful but... It's Adam.

Something about him that I noticed is that he seems to be more bark than bite. In particular in his duet with Lucifer, initially Lucifer had the upper hand because he's objectively more powerful, humiliating Alastor with his angel magic, but what Alastor used to his advantage was his words and charisma, as can be expected of a radio host. He's always taunting his enemies, but does it actually make him stronger than them? He "won" that duet with Vox but Valentino said Alastor only"almost beat" him when they had an actual fight. He ruffled Lucifer's feathers but at the end of the day Lucifer is still leagues more powerful than him. He talked big when he was fighting Adam but he almost died and had a breakdown over it.

He's really a lot less "cool" than I expected the show would have him be portrayed as. Kinda pathetic honestly, how he's so insecure and angry whenever he isn't the strongest guy in the room. And i actually really like that! He reminds me a lot of Rumplestilstkin from Once Upon a Time.

Something I kinda hesitate to say tho is... I dont want him redeemed. I dont want him to actually care about the hotel crew and change his ways. I like him as the fucked up man he is and really want to see how fucked up he can be, just so that if he ends up being the huge antagonist, his downfall would be all the more satisfying. Like yunno that moment when Light/Kira was finally defeated? I wanna feel that again.

Angel Dust

I love him! We found his dialogue a lil annoying at first in ep 1 but the writers did a lot better in ep 2. He's a neat guy. His character gives interesting implications for me as to what makes a person a sinner in this show. While you have people like Alastor who obviously ended up where they did because a cannibal murderer, I get the feeling Angel ended up in hell because he was abusing his own body, which is a sad thing to think. If I remember right from my own catholic upbringing, abusing the body is considered a sin because your body is a temple. To think that Angel could be in hell for poisoning himself, not for harming others, is just sad man. I look forward to seeing more of his journey.

I'm not touching on how his SA was tackled btw. While I'm a victim of sexual assault myself, what i experienced was far from what Angel does on a REGULAR basis,so I don't feel like i have any personal or professional right to say anything about it. Not every victim's case is universal anyways. All I can say is, his line about purposefully damaging himself so he could be broken enough to no longer be Valentino's "favorite toy" hit me harder than I ever expected this show to.

Husk

Confession: I... I dont feel all that attached to Husk at all, I am so sorry Husk stans 😭

Okok that feels so mean to say I'm so sorry. I actually hesitated to say anything because I dont want to hurt people's feelings. But since you guys are asking and I dont like not being genuine, I'm telling the truth.

A lot of my feelings about Husk is heavily affected by the fandom anyways to be perfectly fair. Why? Because a lot of criticisms against Vaggie is easily applicable to Husk, maybe even more so, and yet I dont see even the same level of hate towards him that Vaggie received because his chemistry with Angel is so much better than Chaggie... Apparently...

I just dont see Husk as a character outside of being a plot device for Angel's development yunno? I get it, he isn't a main character like the main 4 are(Charlie, Vaggie, Alastor, and Angel), i just find it hard to well and truly like him because of the fandom's double standards. When we found out someone was gonna die in the finale, my brother and I actually thought it was gonna be him because he doesn't have a big enough role to play in the plot to be a HUGE loss, but has a significant enough connection to a main character to have an EFFECT. He very much just felt like the love interest for Angel and nothing else. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, but is frustrating when i see sooo many people label Vaggie as such(when she isnt!) and hate her SO MUCH for it.

I wanna see more of him tho I really do. Like the man used to be an overlord. He said he wanted to find someone who could relate to "the gruesome ways in which he's damaged" but what does that even mean? Yes i know about the castration but aside from that what suffering is Alastor putting him thru when all he has to do is be a bartender rn? There must be more and I wanna see it and finally feel for him.

Nifty

I love her a lot. That's it. The character ever. Her gremlin energy reminded me so much of Peridot, it's great. Kimiko Glenn did a fantastic job as the comic relief character and I hope she gets her own song next season. Her basically being everyone's little sister was kinda adorable even tho she's probably the scariest person in that hotel next to Alastor. I hope she gets to stab Valentino next. Just kill that MOTHerfucker

[mdhwrites]

Honestly I personally believe Sasha Waybright character arc was better written and engaging than Hunter and Amity’s arcs combined mostly because there was more agency in her arc and while the other two characters who go from enemies to allies to friends just didn’t engage me as much as Sasha’s.

I’m especially dissatisfied with Hunter and how his story while interesting wasn’t as cool as it could’ve been

So I've talked a lot about this in the past but the angle I'll take this time is simple: Sasha is more compelling as a villain to ally arc because the show let her be a villain.

That might sound simple but it's clearly something TOH itself struggled with. One could argue that ALL of the redemptions in TOH follow a pattern of one bad action followed by them being tenuously on the same side and then on the same side. Amity is out of character for her first episode and then Luz is actually at fault for Covention, even if Amity takes it too far. Then Amity is weirdly antagonistic during Hooty's Moving Hassle and then NEVER AGAIN. Three episodes into knowing her and she is now the person we are supposed to sympathize and want around and her biggest crime feels entirely out of character for the rest of her portrayal.

Hunter is similar. His first appearance is not Hunter. It's the Golden Guard who is WAY more fun a character than Hunter ever was and kind of a bastard. Then the mask is removed in his second real appearance (not counting the stinger in Escaping Expulsion) and he is someone to start sympathizing and working with. He is the sad but mad boy by his third major appearance and his second appearance makes him somewhat sympathetic, just like Covention did for Amity... Or For the Future does for The Collector despite lines like "I can't wait to play amongst the bones!" in Hollow Mind that feel, drumroll please, OUT OF CHARACTER TO THE REST OF HIS WRITING!

Lilith is the only to subvert this... Kind of. No, they actually go out of order but still the same essentially with her. Her first appearance makes her sympathetic and not properly a threat because she's still willing to play ball with Eda for a one on one competition, then she spends the second half of S1 just palling around in shenanigans she should not be allowing but is because... Fuck you. Then we get her one truly evil action in kidnapping Luz, coupled also with having been the one to curse Eda but that's also used to show she's a good person now so the kidnapping is the bigger deal here. Then... She's just a good guy afterwards.

This all makes for the most shallow, bullshit uses of this trope I think you can do while being allowed to claim you did it. After all, a key point to all of these redemptions aren't "Then they sided with the good guys," it's just "Then they're a good person." They don't bring who they were as a villain with them. The strengths that led to their villainy are just gone and they're hard to say what they were in the first place, what they add to the narrative in their redemption and joining of the main party because who were they before they joined. What are they actually fighting against as a person instead of just deciding not to be evil anymore or wanting the cookies that the light side offers?

It'd be like if after Sasha was redeemed, she was as bad as Anne at being able to lead and use people. If the show went "To better erase all the crimes she's done, not only will we say Sasha only is a bad person because her father is Ultra Satan but also she now is entirely incompetent in what she was good at before." Amity loses her intelligence. Her plans are always the most straightforward after she starts getting a crush on Luz and she canonically started having her grades slip. Hunter is the most pathetic character in the main cast with I think zero wins in his belt besides his first appearance despite being the only one with combat training. Lilith is just... Sad in how much they reduce all she was for over forty years of her life to go "Now she's a silly nerd girl. Fuck ambition."

And, of course, their bad sides being blamed on mother, uncle, mother kind of for Lilith actually, just that the exposition for that comes after her redemption, and the Archivists and Belos for the Collector. They aren't bad people, they just were forced to spend time with the wrong people. Now that they're nerds and led by nerd Jesus, everything is okay.

There is a VEEERY real problem in TOH of Us vs. Them mentality that comes from these arcs that's really gross. Swap Luz to a white, male jock and suddenly the show becomes WAY MORE UNCOMFORTABLE!

Sasha dodges all of this because no one tries to excuse Sasha. Sasha never tries to pretend she's anyone other than who she is except for when she's explicitly putting on an act. This means everything compelling and good about her as a villain can cleanly transition to when she is a hero, even if it's hard to believe that which the show even calls out.

There is no Sasha's Angels in TOH. That might be a weird one to reference to you because it doesn't include much Sasha but it nails on the head what makes this trope so exciting. To Anne, Sasha letting others do the work while she gets to theoretically kick back looks like the same old Sasha that she now is suspicious of. Someone who is self serving and so Anne lashes out. However, it's not the case. Sasha's ability to manipulate always came from being able to read a person's weaknesses and strengths. She's a MUCH better manipulator than Belos in this way because she doesn't leverage on you or for you to already be siding with her. She can read you like a book and tear apart your pages until she plays with your spine. And as a hero, that's going to mean she's a great delegator. She's the sort who would go "Nah, we don't need to save them from what you see as certain doom. I know he can deal with it." And she's right. Not because of blind faith but because of the same skills that made her villainous.

Something that wouldn't hit nearly as hard, or feel reasonable on Anne's part, if we didn't get so many examples of this being who Sasha is. Of the fact that Sasha uses other people for her own means. And even now, you can claim the same... Except it's not for her means. It's for their needs.

It actually is part of what makes her becoming a therapist so pitch perfect. A good therapist can call you out when you're trying to hide behind something to not get to the core of your problems. They can catch what is at the root of your issues even as you don't see it yourself. They also can see your value and use your strengths to help combat those problems after helping you identify them. It's actually pretty close to how she tried to get out of Toad Tower in her first appearance. Bring in someone, earn their trust, use their passions against their weaknesses and make them better. The only difference is that now she cares about making them better.

Amity, Hunter and Lilith could never have such a satisfying future because again: What are their strengths? Hell, post redemption, that statement stands true. You can call Amity good at magic I guess but Hunter and Lilith are pathetic people who kind of luck out in being useful at times and that's really it. These aren't people who have anything going for them. They're as good as goons with one of them being an elite in a one off episode as far as villain forces go and that's not very compelling for a redemption of this sort. Not unless you're really going to get into that and A: Lilith was one of the strongest mages on the Isles and studied her ass off so you'd think she'd mocked less for sucking at her job and being a fucking moron and B: they didn't even try for half a second with Hunter who I don't really know if they intended to make look as pathetic as he did skill wise.

So their futures are just random factoids introduced during the story. Does Amity being an inventor say anything about her redemption? No. In fact, it really sucks because Odalia would have LOVED her daughter to follow in her father's footsteps because that's the most profitable option for their company. Good job show. Hunter just takes up the job that connects him with the only thing we know is explicitly Caleb related, no conjecture needed, which sucks for a character who was supposed to be his own person. Then Lilith is... A historian. Because she likes that I guess. Does that have anything to do with her time as the coven head? No. Her ambitions? GOD NO. It's just a random choice that puts her in line with the inoffensively nerdy cast.

And before ANYONE says anything about the shortening, I want to say I've done a blog comparing the fact that Amity, in S2A (so before the shortening) has as many appearances as Sasha does in Sasha's entire redemption arc. You didn't need more time to do this better, the show needed to actually commit to its concepts. Actually needed to be willing to do its tropes rather than slapping it on for marketability and to make lazy analysts happy.

Because enemies to allies is not one of those tropes you can half ass. Not unless you want none of its power and boy, these are some weak character arcs. At least we've got Sasha.

======+++++======

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[wobblesthewaffle]

Lilith Doesn't Own Alastor's Soul (Theory)

So I've noticed the majority of the fandom (from what I can tell) theorizes/thinks that Lilith is the one who owns Alastor's soul. However, it doesn't make much sense when you look at other soul contracts.

For example, we can start with the resemblances shared between the parties of a soul deal.

We all know that sinners have some minor resemblances to the person who owns their soul, or part of their soul through contract. One case of this would be Husk and Niffty both having those sharp yellow teeth and a wide grin, just like Alastor.

A more noticeable example would be how those who work for Valentino have a golden tooth and Vox and this worker in episode two.

But then, we take a look at Alastor and Lilith.

They have no likeness in their appearances. Another thing to consider is that Alastor's powers are mainly voodoo/shadow themed. But why would Lilith from the bible give Alastor voodoo magic of all things?

Many will still bring up the fact Lilith and Alastor disappeared for seven years at the same time, but that doesn't necessarily mean she owns him. Lilith's mystery might as well be a red herring covering up whoever will be the main antagonist of the series.

Then we look at designs that Viv has made of other characters and we find a much better candidate.

Alastor's signature parts of his demonic form would probably be the black tendrils and what not. You wanna know what else shares these aspects?

Yep, the Root of all Evil. We've only seen it/them appear once in the show, but it fits well with the look Alastor has when he uses his powers and this entity definitely would be powerful enough to share some with our boy Al for a price.

The next thing I want to look into is Viv's design of Roo from 2019

Ok, so two big points here that relate to Alastor.

The first one is the black tendrils, and maybe even the weird thing with her red hair having black ends like Al's (but I mean, then again, it's hell and at most sinners only have like three shades in their color scheme so it's probably not that significant)

But the main one is the tons of red eyes. Where have we seen eyes like these before recently?

AND THE PLOT THICKENS!

I also saw a few people talking about how Eve could be Roo, which is another interesting take.

Lilith, Alastor and their absence are obviously connected, but not in a soul contract way. Roo will most likely be a final season villain, and that will (hopefully) be when we get the full explanation for everything.

[proxylynn]

My theory of Hazbin Hotel's main plot.

[This may just be a hot take or me whimsically spitballing headcanon, but I have thought about this and, while I don't have all the puzzle's pieces, I think I have enough to make out a decent picture. So bear with me as I unload the insanity that has been in my head since entering the Hellaverse.]

Starting things off, I think the main villain/antagonist of HH's plot is the obvious elephant in the room...Roo aka The Root of ALL Evil.

According to Vivziepop, Roo is a "looming threat in the distance", possibly hinting toward her being a future antagonist and she mentioned that there is no character that she is more excited to get into than Roo, but, she also mentioned that it's "gonna be a long time". So likely we won't see her properly till season three but get hints throughout season two and teased at the end. I will make no claim that "defeating" Roo solves everything in the universe because that's nonsense. There is no good without evil. So you can't just off Roo who's been there since the beginning. And I mean THE beginning. I'm talking the creation of EVERYTHING.

"Angels that worshiped good and shielded all from evil."

Evil exists at the start before Lucifer does anything, this is a fact. So where am I going with this? Let's continue down the line. To the one driving my train of thought...Lilith.

For someone who didn't eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, Lilith was very aware of certain things and had independent free will. But humanity didn't get this autonomy till after the fruit fiasco, so what happened? Why did Lilith have magic main character self-awareness? Well, let's think about this...Why was there such a tree in Eden in the first place? The Angels are making this a paradise and keeping evil out of Earth. So why place a tree in there that would fuck it all up? This was why they didn't want Lucifer making shit because they were worried his ideas would be too risky and bad could happen. So again, why was this tree here? What if...The Angels didn't make it.

I propose, as her name so implies, that Roo sprouted the tree up without the Angels knowing in the hopes the fruit would be eaten and allow evil to taint the world. Lilith might have gotten a hint of what the tree granted and what simple veil that clouded her eyes was lifted enough to make her reject Adam and flee the garden. It's even said that "together" she and Lucifer share the gift of free will with Eve, but Lilith seems to take this stand back and watch approach when Lucifer gives her the fruit, almost like she's uncertain what eating it will do so she keeps her distance. This again, also hints that Lilith has had free will from the start and didn't eat the fruit because it was only when Eve ate the fruit did evil finally break the seal to enter Earth.

"As punishment for their reckless act, Heaven cast Lucifer and his love into the dark pit he had created."

Now here's where it gets a bit more headcanony because this line could mean nothing or everything. Lucifer and Lilith are banished to the newly made Hell. I repeat...Heaven cast Lucifer and Lilith into Hell. Nowhere does it say she died. So...We have the first human woman who didn't eat the fruit and never died. By technically, Lilith still has her immortality. She's the oldest human alive. It's also stated Lucifer shares his power with her (and Charlie), which makes sense if she's just some dull human. So, now imbued with this mix of angel/demon rizz, Lilith becomes even more OP and Hell's mary sue Queen that dominates like the bad boss bitch she is.

"Lilith thrived, empowering demonkind with her voice and her songs. And as the numbers of Hell grew, so did its power."

Lilith as a character has a surprisingly decent amount of info to work with considering we only saw her for the smallest moment. So here's some goodies I've collected from the wiki that are of note.

{According to Vivziepop, Lilith is the "big, slowburn mystery" of the show, adding that we are going to slowly start getting answers over the course of the "next couple seasons", and that season two gives some more pieces to it.}

{When asked about what Lilith was like, Faustisse described Lilith as graceful, regal, and politically charged. Lilith is someone who is exceptionally equanimous. This was implied in "Overture" as in the "Story of Hell" book she is depicted helping Hell thrive over the years using her voice and her songs.}

{When asked about Lilith and Lucifer's dynamic, Faustisse believed their relationship could be summed up with the phrase, "Behind every man is a greater woman", and that they love each other very much. They describe Lilith and Lucifer as "passionate, cheesy lovers". They are of the opinion that Lilith "wears the pants" in her family, but they think both Lilith and Lucifer are switches within their intimate life.}

{When asked about Lilith's powers, Faustisse declined to answer, citing possible spoilers for the main series. They did, however, state that they did not think Lilith had wings like Charlie and Lucifer, although saw no reason why she wouldn't be able to manifest them if she wished. According to Faustisse, Lilith can change the shape of her horns, but it's unlikely this will be shown in practice in the series as it would apparently be difficult to show that kind of constant change over consecutive scenes.}

{When asked if the Eden family have some connection to the royal family as well, Vivziepop declined to answer one way or the other.}

{Due to her origins as a former human, it is likewise unclear if Lilith is connected to the Sinners, who are deceased humans and became demons after death; as Lilith was alive when she was banished to Hell, her transition between human and demon is ambiguous.}

{Faustisse has suggested that she is somewhat good with children}

{Lilith disappeared seven years prior to the series for reasons unknown, never responding to any of her daughter's attempts to call her. Curiously, she was missing the same amount of years as Alastor. Lilith was later revealed to be in Heaven in "The Show Must Go On". Although the exact reasons remain unknown, it was heavily alluded to that she had made a deal with Adam at some point.}

You might look at all this and be like "Lynn, you dummy, we know all this. This is just random stuff". Oh, I think not. Because in just these bits we get so much. Let's begin with the character setup for diving into my main theory.

I think Lilith does love her family. She has a loving and amazing husband in Lucifer and in Charlotte (aka Charlie) the most adorable and kindhearted daughter any mother could ask for. As Queen, she took charge and made Hell less of a pit to wallow and suffer in, and more like a new home to begin anew. So then...What happened? Why would she suddenly leave and cut all communications? Here is where we dig into the meat of it all. My theory of why Lilith left.

Remember how I said Lilith didn't eat the fruit and still had free will then pounded that over and over into you? Well, going on what I said about her getting "a hint of what the tree granted", Roo could've infected Lilith and gifted her awareness while in Eden. Now in Hell where Roo is arguably stronger due to all the sin and sickness that permeates the realm, her influence on Lilith would increase. Lilith, being the big brain that she is, probably felt something was amiss when she got pregnant. Nine months is a long time to plan things out, and maybe doing a few concerts to warn others of impending danger subtlety might've worked...but only for so long. She needed something. A safety. And that safety was her family. Lucifer likely could've been useful but his depression was beginning to take hold with each failure and the worsening sinners as years passed. So...plan B...Charlie. She would instill in her daughter everything she knew and give her a "destiny".

"But Lilith's hope remained. And her dream passed down to their precious daughter, the Princess of Hell."

With Charlie, Lilith instilled that the people were important. But never explained in what way. As she continued to prepare her daughter, Lilith would come to understand this reason. Power. Roo thrives on the tainted evil that seeps from the sinners. So just as she finishes schooling Charlie, she sets up another backup plan to still Roo's intake long enough for her daughter to figure out a way of her own...And this is where Adam comes in.

"Adam is dead. Your deal is done and I'm in charge now. Your brat is threatening the very foundation of Heaven. And if you want to stay here, you're going down there, and stopping that bitch. You understand me…Lilith?"

Feeling Roo's corruptive influence getting worse because sinners just keep coming, Lilith contacts Adam. Now Adam is still salty but hears his first wife out as she caters to his ego. But Adam is wiser after millennia and knows she's not being innocent here. He bluntly gets her to just spill the beans to which she does, she needs out of Hell. Adam grabs this opportunity and says he can sneak her into Heaven but it'll cost her. He knows how much her precious people mean to her so, vindictively, he says he'll take her in if he can go into Hell and kill demons. Little does he know he's playing into her trap. She "reluctantly" agrees so long as no Hellborn are harmed, only sinners. Adam is all for it, even makes a cover story to tell Sera later how killing sinners in Hell will keep Heaven safe, and Lilith then goes about doing the hardest thing she's ever done. She tells Lucifer of some details of this new Heavenly Extermination thing and that she'll have to go away for a long time, promising to return but unsure when. Heartbroken, Lucifer watches as his love leaves him, their daughter, and their kingdom.

"Hey, mom. I know I keep calling and you must be busy... Really busy... But, um, the interview didn't go well, and... I don't know if I'm ever going to make a difference. I don't know what I'm doing. I could really use some advice, mom. I... I think dad was right about me... Ahah, oof. Eh, anyway... I'll stop talking before this gets long. Love you, bye..."

"Don't worry, Mom. I'll make you proud."

Vaggie: Did you hear from your mom?

*Charlie shakes her head in dismay.*

Vaggie: Oof… how long has it been now?

Charlie: Not that long, only…seven….years, off doing something important, I'm sure! But, this kingdom was something she really cared about. Something I care about.

This is what I think it's all been leading to. Lilith having made Charlie into someone for the people and wanting to save souls in a, as funny as it is, maintaining the very balance that got fucked up way back in the garden sort of redeeming way. Restoring order by allowing the good to go where it should've gone in the first place and keeping Roo weak. Maybe Lilith can even get her own redemption, being partially responsible for allowing Roo into our world in the first place. The only added weight I have left to give to my silly little "infected Lilith" idea is how she looks at season one's ending.

She looks pissed and upset, which we can say for a few reasons like how Lute just straight-up calls Charlie a bitch to her face. Like, dude, dick move. But, with Adam dead and seemingly no progress from Charlie (that she knows of), Lute is forcing her to go back to Hell where Roo's influence can grip her once more. I'm not entirely sure just what that could mean but for the sake of the Alastor/Lilith theory fans, let's say when Roo is strong she can puppet Lilith into infecting others via demonic deals. She might have done this countless times with mixed results, only to have full success in Alastor. But Mr deer is a bit too successful a test subject and thus gets his powers leashed. Now we have Alastor trying to force his way out of this mixed-up double-power deal by roping in Charlie, the one kink in this chain that could cause everything to break if forced too much.

It would explain his latching onto Charlie and seeking a deal since the very first time they met. She's a means to an end. The key to unlocking his proverbial collar. It even explains his out-of-nowhere instant disdain for Lucifer. Of course he'd be hostel to the husband of the bitch that metaphorically screwed him and poses a threat to his current plan of using his daughter for his own means.

Well, this was a long as fuck rambling. I hope even a shred of this made sense. Now to sit back and wait for season two to come along and either be like "I got something right" or "Wow I was dead wrong on so many levels". I wonder how long that will take?

"In an interview posted on February 2, 2024, Vivziepop thought that the production of season two might take about one-and-a-half to two years, roughly the same production time season one had."

Oh...um...Looks like we have some time. So, we can expect the new episodes to land in late 2025 at the earliest. *sets up chair* I can wait.

[momo-shut-the-fuck-up]

So i ve done the main story in infinity nikki and im gonna stop playin now, before i squeeze the game dry of content and have nothing (new) to do on release.

Time for a lil review/thoughts post

I m not gonna review every single mechanic in the game, simply things that stood out to me or that i wanna talk about. I also wont add more images, i kinda want ppl to see the world for themselves... i ll share more when the game comes out tho.

There s a lot of text under this. Tldr, i like the game i think it's a solid, enjoyable experience with a good gameplay loop, the story isn't for me, and i'll keep playin of course. And u should try it too if ur device wont blow itself up tryin to run it.

Dress up

The bread and butter of Nikki games... it's good as usual. Game doesn't shy away from long skirts or coat tails or complicated ballgowns just cuz nikki can run and jump and dash now and i'm very happy bout that. There's some clipping issues once in a while, but it's nothing major and the clothes we do have in the game are lovely. There s an evolution system for some of the sets, which makes em a diff color.... usually they can evolve once, but i saw Three extra evolutions for one of the UR sets and that scares me. Bcs to evolve them u have to craft the suit again. So u have to pull 4 copies of a suit to max it out..

Combat

Game's definitely succeeding in its quest for being cozy. There's no real stakes, combat isn't difficult in the slightest but i do welcome it- super simple but it's pretty fun regardless. The boss fights were surprisingly creative and fun for what they are, it's just unfortunate that you have to do them more than once or twice (crafting mats)- but they do change what the boss does so it's different depending on what mat u are farming for... and u can claim double or triple or however much stamina u got-le of the mat after u complete it once. So that s rly nice.

Exploration

I actually think it's really really good. Again this isn't a difficult or complicated game, not yet i guess... but with the major goal being "get new clothes" and "take pretty pictures maybe", the open world feels actively engaging to participate in. There's collectibles everywhere, little challenges you can do that are diverse but quick, styling battles, collecting everythin from animals fur to bugs to fish, and allll of this brings u closer to that never ending goal of woo more clothes.

However even if a challenge doesnt give you a blueprint, it's still just. Really Nice to exist in this world. It's very whimsical, as expected of Lilith, and the world has a combination of realism and cartoon artstyle that is just soso appealing to me. It's genuinely how i would've imagined miraland to look in 3d. Shame it's not the same miraland we know..

Story

Hmm... silly is one word i could use for it. Cute also. The story isn't doin anythin bad per se, and i did start skippin dialogue near the end w the pieceys because i want to keep at least Some part of the story for the game's release... but i get the gist of it, and it s just not my thing.

It feels like a story made for children, and it definitely would get a G rating. Easy and simple to follow, there's moments of tension or sadness sure but with the antagonist bein a literal babie lookin cutey fairy with a grown man's voice, or the creatures that i'm interacting with are a bunch of. Fuckin weird lookin big eyed balls of fabric that look closer to plushies than somethin Alive... it's all so silly and dramatic sometimes i can t help but cringe.

Part of it is a me problem, if u just open ur heart and free urself from the cringe the story is fine. It's just a little too kiddy for me and i so desperately hope it won't stay like this forever. My prayers might be answered though, there's a whole war beyond the borders and we have refugees around... shit's lookin bad for Umbrosa.

Other things i noticed that i liked:

The effect on nikki's skin when it's raining, she actually has water dripping down her face... its so cool

Momo capes are actually kinda neat ngl. Especially cuz the fucker follows u around everywhere, at least i can bedazzle him

Npc models look really good im a fan. They do suffer from "everyone is very beautiful" syndrome, which makes some of the npc villains look/sound ridiculous, but they have kid-teen-adult-elderly versions of models (i never see teen models in these games! Its cool!) And some body variation. The grandmas look so lovely i cry

The dark skin tone is really dark, and it looks quite nice and natural.

The lighting engine in this game is just rly good in general. God bless UE5

The edges of the map where there s forest, which u obv cant go thru, the forest is made to be darker, thicker.... i m a huge fan of this idk y. It's not just *invisible wall in front of an open field* nopee cant go there lets explore that area later tee hee. And it looks good to boot.

Camera function is p robust, has more options for changin brightness/saturation/contrast etc which i feel Shining Nikki lacks.

Some of the creature designs are so good man i looove themm <3.... the pieces are awful tho. Ok creature design is a hit and miss sometimes but the stray hatty? Peak. All the weirdy fashionable animals? Peak.

Bein able to quick switch thru ur saved sets while in the overworld is real neat

Oke that was it. Bye

[commenter2]

Helluva Boss season 2 ideas

I posted my thoughts on what I think will happen in season 2 of Helluva Boss based on what was seen in the 2022 trailer so I thought I post my ideas for what I would personally like to see in season 2.

A Millie episode- We haven’t gotten an episode where Millie is the main focus, so I hope season 2 gives us one. It is confirmed that her sister Sallie May will be in season 2 so I could see there being an episode where she visits Millie and Moxxie in the city and Millie reluctantly has to show her around all the while she gets annoyed by her in various ways, like how Sallie is getting use to the city faster than Millie did when she moved there and see Sallie flirt with Moxxie to mess with her.

How the main characters met/prequel episodes- the trailer does seem to show that we will see how people like Blitzo and Stolas met, so I would like to see how the other characters met like Moxxie and Millie and how they feel in love and got married and the day Blitzo adopted Loona and how maybe she did have chance to go back to the orphanage but declined it as Blitzo wasn’t as bad as she first thought.

Goetia family interaction and info- It would be cool to see the Goetia family interact more, seeing how they feel about one another and what happened that led them to where they are today. It would also be nice to learn more about them in general like what Stolas does with the book on full moons and explain their royalty when Hell already has an obvious king, queen, and princess.

Andy Berman voicing a character- Since Richard Horvitz is a part of the HB crew, it would be awesome if the writers could get Andy Berman, the voice of Dib, to voice a character on the show. I could see him voicing a character that is not only a good weapons expert but also Moxxie’s ex-boyfriend, I bet Invader Zim fans would love that XD.

Start of Stella’s redemption- Its confirmed that Stella will have more screen time in season 2, and though it will be as a more antagonistic role I’m hoping later in the season we see her change into a nicer person. It could be possible as things like interacting with characters like Stolas and maybe Millie along with going through plots like finding out Octavia ran away because of her and Stolas’s fighting, discovering Striker is killing higher up demons with the weapon she gave him, or seeing a video of herself being rude to someone that has also tarnished her family name a bit could make her realize how selfish and rude she has been, even if some things were understandable.

More Hazbin Hotel references and maybe some info ?- I’ve said it before but I love how Helluva Boss is giving us details on things about the show’s universe which is great for when Hazbin Hotel airs as they won’t have to waste much time explaining things. Now some people think that something related to Hazbin Hotel will come out in 2022 and if this is true, maybe we could start getting some info related to Hazbin Hotel through Helluva Boss before then, like learning the name of an Overlord or seeing a quote from Lilith that gives us a hint at her personality.

I also have a few plot ideas for possible episodes.

Loona’s first job with I.M.P.- Something I mentioned this in my review on episode 6. The concept is interesting as her being on the team could mix up the mission dynamic, especially if it’s because she needs to replace someone who is sick or injured.

Millie family reunion- This is an idea I’ve talked about before and after seeing Millie’s family in episode 5 it would be cool to see a follow up to that. Might post another thing about this in the future.

I.M.P heist on Agents One and Two- A fun little episode where after finding out the agents have info that could reveal Hell and get everyone in trouble, the characters have to sneak into D.H.O.R.K.S.  headquarters and delete the info before it’s too late.

Octavia joins I.M.P.- Something fans have been think about for a while now. Because of various factors like wanting to earn money for a change, Loona has become a close friend of hers, and to spite her parents, Octavia decides to work with I.M.P. This could be an interesting plot point as like I said in a previous post she could eventually start to see them like more of a family then her own parents and/or maybe through them works outs some problems with her parents as the series progresses.

I can’t think of what to call this idea so I’m just going to describe it. After a job the imps discover they brought something back with them (like an animal or child) and have to return it to Earth but sadly Blitzo has already given Stolas back the book. Now Blitzo and Millie have to go get the book while Moxxie and Loona stay behind and watch over the thing. If that’s not bad enough Moxxie and Loona have to hide the thing from a new antagonist that I’ve had for a while as the character is part of Hell’s government and after hearing things about I.M.P. going to Earth without permission said character is tasked with seeing if they are breaking the law or not. Along with getting interactions between Loona and Moxxie and possible Stella and Mille as the latter has to distract Stella, we could learn a bit about Stolas and the book here like what else it could do and what Stolas uses it for.

What do you hope to see happen in Helluva Boss season 2 ?

[queenlilith43]

Alrighty so here is my stupid, stupid theory about the Wicked Powers and the Eldest Curses.

I'm adding a keep reading option because everyone will thank me for this later. And it contains serious Eldest Curses and Last Hours spoilers. (YES. I will drag Chain of Iron into here because I want to.)

So I want to talk about what I think the antagonists in the Wicked Powers and what will happen because of it. And how the antagonists will show up.

So who do I think the antagonists are? Whelp, here's the list:

Thule people

Faerie court drama

The Cohort

Lucifer + other permanent threats

I'm going to explain the antagonists and what I think will happen. I will explain how much of a problem I think they will be.

Thule

Well, Janus is going to be in there. He had established himself as a villian from Ghosts of the Shadow Market. He's what Jace could have been if he had stayed under Sebastian's power. That is to say, a very evil Jace.

Janus had been tasked by the Seelie Queen at the end of Queen of Air and Darkness to find actual Jace Herondale. Do we want Jace kidnapped? NO. Will this cause problems? YES.

Thule as a world is a problem. Part of it leaked into our world in QOAAD, causing the warlocks to start to turn into demons. (Including a very cute purple poodle that was Malcolm Fade.)

Shadowhunters can't use their weapons and runes in this world. I wonder if it was able to influence the Shadowhunters in this world enough to stop that.

And Sebastian is still alive in Thule. We know how much of a problem he is. If he ends up in our world . . . We should be worried.

I think Thule can be a problem. It might be a huge problem. It all depends on how easily the main characters can deal with Janus.

I personally want then to deal with Janus and Thule by just yeeting him into a Portal. I can imagine Kit doing that and then dusting off his hands.

If someone can get rid of Thule easily, things will be fine. If Thule isn't dealt with early on . . . Everyone is screwed.

Faeries

We have met the First Heir of the courts. Also known as Kit Herondale. We also have the Seelie Queen, who is very evil, ruling over the Seelie Court. Along with that, Kieran is ruling the Unseelie Court.

And as we know, the Seelie Queen made Janus try and find Jace. So she ties into the Thule plot.

I feel like there is going to be some major faerie drama. Kit is going to have to fight to unite the courts, whether he wants to or not. It is his destiny to do this.

The faeries wouldn't accept Kit as their king, because he's mainly a Shadowhunter. (As we know, Shadowhunter blood breeds true.) I am hoping Kieran emerges as the king of the new courts and is able to have a good life with Cristina and Mark.

Kit is going to have face his faerie side and the powers that come with it. I'm going to love seeing his character develop through all this.

The faerie court drama is going to be in there, and part of Kit's character arc. It is needed, and if Kit and Kieran get rid of the Seelie Queen fast we might not even have to THINK about dealing with Thule.

However, this plot will need at least two books to resolve itself. That means Thule and the faeries will be involved. I'm going to touch on Thule at the very end again.

The Cohort

Ugh, I hate these guys. Especially Zara, who is the one person everyone in the fandom wants dead.

Considering what the Cohort represents and everything that had happened, they are going to reach new heights of evil. That was already in the playing cards, but I just KNOW they'll be worse than we thought they were going to be.

And the Cohort is trying to hurt the Downworlders. Alec is over there, trying to help them, but the Cohort loathes him for that.

I really don't know how important they will be. But when I talk about what I believe a main plot will be, and how Shadowhunter-Downworlder relations factor into it.

Lucifer

This one is where the Eldest Curses ties into the Wicked Powers. And this is what I think is going to be the main antagonist after a certain point.

Before you question me on this, hear me out.

The Shadowhunters have always known they will face an end to the world. It's been an idea since the very first book, City of Bones.

Jace talked about how there were more demons coming in every year, and less Shadowhunters to fight them. This was in the FIRST BOOK. And of course we had bigger fish to fry, but it's an idea that stuck with me.

I feel like even in the Infernal Devices series everyone knew there would be a demon threat so great the world could end. It wasn't as obvious, because Mortmain wasn't an antagonist that posed a large problem. His clockwork monsters were easy to defeat, and it was in Britain, which is technically an island. So they couldn't go they far unless they hopped on a boat and sailed around the world. Along with Mortmain just being a mundane.

In the Last Hours, the idea of a demon threat that could end the world is even more real. In Chain of Gold, we had to deal with demons that attacked in broad daylight, something that had never happened before.

And there was Belial, who might be planning something that messes with their weapons. (Although he won't get far. He's a terrible, even laughable villian who is being set up like this for future reasons.)

Now we have Lilith, who is a danger to this world. With Cordelia as a paladin, Lilith could have enough power to mess with the world. It's more real, but with this being a prequel, we know things will be fine.

Back to the main series, the Mortal Instruments. In the latter half of the series, Lilith shows up, and mentions her past. And this includes Sammael.

Sammael is a Prince of Hell. He poses a threat to the world. He is the one who weakened the wards in the first place with Lilith to let the demons in.

Thankfully, Simon turns Lilith into salt. We don't have to deal with her, but the threat and the demons she knows remind us how fragile this world is.

After Lilith, we have Sebastian. His demons blood makes him unstable, and he created this army of Endarkened Shadowhunters. But was his existence a threat to the fabric of the universe itself? Not really.

It could think our world, but not in the way an actual demon could. He is powerful, but Sebastian loves in pain. The demon blood in his veins weighs him down, and he has weaknesses. Clary defeated him once, and she can deal with Thule Sebastian later.

The Dark Artifices introduced the concept of the world ending. Not with Malcolm, but with Thule. Thule was a real Hell dimension, a place where the demons have taken over. A ruined world, and one where Sebastian rules over the land with an iron fist.

The only way Sebastian was able to rule over Thule was because Lilith showed up at just the right time. And strangely enough, it was shortly after she was lost from our world. Coincidence? Well, it could be, but knowing these books, it probably isn't.

In the Eldest Curses, this idea was introduced just a little on the first book. Asmodeus was there. It was a flash of it, but it seemed like the demon threat was mentioned.

The second book mentioned that idea again, with Sammael showing up. That's right. Sammael, the Once and Future Devourer of Worlds.

He really seemed to show the threat of demons. The way that no matter how hard the Shadowhunters would fight, the demons would win in the end. It said in that book Sammael would destroy the worlds in the end, no matter what.

And oh my god the epilogue. He had all the Princes of Hell in a room. And now, they are going to summon Lucifer.

Why do I think Lucifer will be outside the Eldest Curses? Because he is important.

In the folklore (my inner Swiftie is showing) Lucifer is the angel who started the rebellion in Heaven. He looked into the face of God, and turned away into the darkness. He is a force to be reckoned with.

But what happened to him? We haven't even heard of him in the Shadowhunters universe until Chain of Gold, where he was confirmed as a Prince of Hell. At first, I thought Sammael was Lucifer, because that is one of his names.

But they're two different demons. And one is more powerful.

Because Lucifer hasn't even been mentioned before, I think his sudden existence is going to be in the Wicked Powers, along with the rest of the Princes of Hell.

Belial is being set up as this whiny, sexist demon to make the other Prince of Hell so much WORSE.

The Wicked Powers is supposed to be a threat that the Shadowhunters have never faced before. And the LITERAL DEVIL? Yeah, they've never dealt with a force like him before.

But the only way the Shadowhunters can defeat the demons once and for all is by teaming up with the Downworlders. It's been hinted at. When the Shadowhunters and Downworlders work together, they are able to fight the demons off.

This is where Clary's Alliance rune comes in. Her rune, binding the Downworlders and the remaining Shadowhunters together, and they will fight.

The Cohort is going to hate this. But it's the only way to deal with Thule (which I'm going to talk about in another post) and Lucifer is with the Downworlders.

And Magnus if ping to be important. Every time Magnus is there, the Shadowhunters win.

But one my other theories is that Magnus dies. Because this is the end, and Magnus is in every single book. So for him to die, it would mark the very end.

So I guess Magnus would fight bravely in the battle and then die, to make an end to these books.

Any thoughts on this? Please reblog!

[be-gay-do-witchcraft-hoot-hoot]

Yayyyyyy analysis time!! This is gonna be chaotic and long lol 

disclaimer: I have already looked at and responded to predictions by @darkwingdyke, @ibelongtotoomanyfandomsblog, @bringina, @halfasleepheadcanons and @animerunner so some of that definitely will slip in here--but go check theirs out too! :)

Starting from the VERY TOP, we have the flaming door eye! We know that in s1 Luz burned the door in her attempt to stop Belos from using it, but we also know that he’s been reconstructing the pieces anyways. The eye being on fire could definitely relate to that. I think another important thing no one’s pointed out yet is that the eye’s pupil grows smaller as it opens. When pupils grow smaller, they’re adjusting to the light. I think this could definitely be foreshadowing something about the completion of Belos’s reconstruction or maybe is connected to the common good/evil light/dark parallels we see elsewhere in the show. Also, the eye’s shape has changed--previously it was rounded, but now it’s shaped more similarly to Belos’s

Next, there’s the character intro updates. We start with Luz looking stunning in her cape, and powerful with her glyphs. Then we have Eda struggling with her spells. She’s trying to hold onto her staff magic here, and I wonder if her possible resistance to Luz’s type of magic (even though it could help her) is going to be a plot point in the show. I also know in the show we’re going to explore King’s background which I’m excited for, but I don’t think there’s anything here that provides any information about that.

Following our protagonists, we have level-ed up Willow, Gus, and Amity! Willow is shown to be incredibly powerful in her shot, but nothing we haven’t seen in the show so far. Hoping we’ll get to see more of Willow busting out her immense power in s2. 

Then we have Gus, casting from a book--and also hinted to be more powerful than previously. Unlike Willow, we’ve never seen him cast circle-less in the show before. That combined with the fact that he’s touching a book makes me think he might be using the glyph magic as a sort of power booster (similar to the construction coven’s power glyphs). I think something else that supports this theory is that his magic clouds look awfully similar (right as he casts them, at least) to Luz’s paper crumpling up and turning into magic. I also want to note the use of 3 here--as others have pointed out, it seems to be becoming an increasingly significant number in the series. 

Lastly, we have Amity. Like Gus and Willow, she’s also shown to be casting circle-less here, though unlike the others I don’t yet have an explanation as to how or why. I do however wanna say she looks amazing and I love her and I can’t wait to see what she does in s2 <3 

Also, I want to note that she’s wearing a gemstone on her outfit. I think it’s unlikely, but given how we’ve seen gemstones reflecting Eda and Lilith’s power (especially in relation to the curse) it’s possible that the necklace may become a similar symbol.

Following Amity, we have our new 3 cards. Most of the fandom seems to think that in s2 they represent the main antagonists (and I agree lol) but if we think about parallels to season 1 here those 3 were the main side characters, who all ended up being good-aligned. However for the sake of all my other thoughts let’s assume they’re the antagonists.

Starting with the frame, we already see many more details. As @bringina​ pointed out, not only do we see the leaders of the main nine covens above (also, the illusions guy looks an awful lot like Gus--could it be Perry Porter?) we also see the owl house on the left and the emperor’s castle on the right, which could suggest the alignments of the characters seen. 

They appear left to right: Lilith, guyinowlmask, and Kikimora. In the first slide, we see s1 Lilith--antagonistic, scary, and with a singular eye color. We also see the other 2 characters in their s1 forms: I know owlmaskguy wasn’t a character in s1, but his outfit could have definitely had him as an easily missable background character, and Kikimora has her face covered as she did throughout the first season. 

The cards then flip and the background fades out to reveal Belos’s swooping hand. Now we see Lilith looking pained in raggedy clothes, owlmaskguy with his mask now off (he looks young--I could see him being disguised as a student at hexside) and Kikimora gone wild. To do a quick dive into Kikimora’s appearance--her hair almost looks like 2 claws, the upper one having a visible vein. She also now has heterochromia, as do Lilith and Eda after sharing the curse. She’s Belos’s right-hand man (also interesting to note it’s Belos’s left hand that swoops in to light fire to her first) so I think it’s possible he could have made her cast a similar spell to help him with one of his ailments. 

We then see Belos’s face shrouded in fire, with his mask now fixed of the crack Luz gave it. He lifts up his arm and the sleeve of his outfit serves as a transition to full Belos calling lightning from the sky--clearly we’re going to see more of him in s2. 

Then we transition again to Luz’s flying sequence from before with the only visible difference being the sunset lighting. I’ve seen 2 theories on this: 1) darker lighting foreshadows a darker season, 2) sunset is one of 3 times (daylight, sunset, and night) and so we’ll see this at night in the third and final season. 

We then end it similarly to the s1 intro, with the only 2 differences I noticed being more vibrant colors and Eda’s heterochromia. 

That’s all, folks!

I might also do a poster analysis later, but in the meantime go check out more theories! Everyone has been so creative in their predictions and who knows what we’ll get right :)

[huskeddevotee]

I really wish we could have seen more CoV. For them being our main enemy, they’re hardly a factor in the story. 

You’re never fighting the CoV, you’re fighting Ty and Troy. That worked in BL2, where the bad guy was a CEO and your frontline enemies were just his hapless employees doing as they were told. The Hyperion employees don’t care, they don’t matter - Jack matters, so you only interact with him. 

But the Fanatics are so doped about the idea of maiming you. They want you dead, not just because Tyreen told them to kill you, but they hate your and the Raiders’ guts. The Fanatics are all of the bandit clans that the Vault Hunters cut through like butter, and they want vengeance and to appease their gods.

And we literally never see them. 

We shoot at them. That’s it. That’s our interaction with the CoV. 

We never get to see how they actually feel about the Twins. We don’t get to see in-fighting as the game progresses and people realize they’re full of sh*t, watching their brothers and sisters die by the hundreds and their ‘Gods’ not do anything to save them. We don’t get to see the different bandit clans clash from culture differences. We don’t see how the Twins are worshiped, if the cult is more social media-based or if it’s just a plain cult with social media flair. We don’t get to see why the Twins are worshiped in the first place. In an Echo recording, Ty promises food and shelter and everything people stranded in hell would want.

Does the CoV even provide that?

We don’t know. We don’t see people have food, water, medicine, clean shelter, or anything like that - nothing has changed about the bandits, so why would we think that? It looks like the Twins promised all of those things in the Great Vault. It looks like the CoV was built off of empty promises and people desperate enough to listen. This could have been a fascinating thing to watch and discover, but...no one cared enough to put it in.

And god, you barely get to interact with Tyreen and Troy themselves. Not like how you did with Jack. 

When against Hyperion, you did all kinds of sh*t to tick off Jack that had nothing to do with the main story. You released animals in the Preservation. You blew up their trains and stole their Eridium. You liberated Overlook from Hyperion control. You killed his girlfriend and presumably liberated Lynchwood from Hyperion control. You killed his assassins in Three Horns. You destroyed his Arena, Statues, robots, and infrastructure in Opportunity. 

And all of this felt really god-dang good. The satisfaction of breaking his crap knew no bounds, and still feels so victorious to this day. You developed an actual rivalry with Jack - he wanted you dead not just because you were opposing him, but actually screwing with him on the side that had no effect in the actual war. You were just ruining his art pieces for the fun of it and it made a relationship with Jack. That’s why his boss fight was so personal - you screwed with him, and he bit back at you hard by killing Roland, kidnapping Lilith, and actually achieving his goal of awakening the Warrior. 

Most games would have you never interact with the main antagonist, but still act like you have the relationship of mutual hatred you do with Jack, with none of the effort to actually show and develop that relationship.

Y’know, like they did with Tyreen and Troy. 

The Twins are your only interaction with the CoV beyond shooting CoV. You do nothing to anger them; you can’t, they’re always one step ahead of you. You have no relationship with them beyond “Game says I have to kill them” and the game acts like it’s this bitter rivalry. It acts like you’re constantly causing problems for the CoV, like you’re this huge pain, when the only time you actually do anything is AT THE END OF THE GAME? 

You ‘storm’/walk into the Cathedral and shut off Troy’s Eridium. That’s it. The whole game, you’re fighting Katagawa and Aurelia. Never the CoV, never the Twins. Killing their allies and ‘war meat’ does nothing to actually hurt them. 

And sure, you do things that should, theoretically, hurt them. You kill Mouthpiece. You kill Carnivora. You kill Troy. (And with Troy...usually, you feel smug when avenging a killed character. During that fight, I didn’t even think about Maya until my character mentioned her. Because that is the only thing Troy did, and it was nothing of his own merit. Maya’s death did nothing to build Troy up as dangerous - it was her own stupidity and a plot hole, because someone had to die this game.)

And yet you never seem to touch or interact with the CoV. 

No matter what you do, it never effects them. You are constantly fighting an uphill battle. Even when you kill Troy, you don’t see Tyreen have that tantrum that Jack had. You don’t see the antagonist crack. When Jack started screaming his head off, there was this euphoric rush of satisfaction and bada**ery in my body that made shooting him all the funnier. You’d watched Jack go from a tyrant to a screaming loser in seconds and it felt good. 

Tyreen doesn’t care about Troy dying. He’s mentioned once. Jack mentions Angel multiple times after he death, with a threat that he’s gonna destroy you for killing her. 

Tyreen has no real come-uppance. You don’t actually defeat her. You kill her. You shoot her, then she dies. 

You beat the hell out of Jack, then his Warrior while he bleeds out and watches his defeat play out in front of him, and then he screams and loses his mind as he realizes he lost, and while he tries to deny reality, still insisting on his hero fantasy while literally stomping his foot, he gets shot. 

It’s so satisfying. There’s no grand defeat, no epic battle. He cries like a child and gets shot. It’s everything a corrupt, abusive father like Jack deserves. 

And with Tyreen, she taunts you, then dies. You don’t get a moment of her realizing that she couldn’t stop you, that you were better than her, that she isn’t getting her way like you did with Jack. She just dies. 

You might win, but it doesn’t feel like it. 

[anarmorofwords]

Adding on to what the other anon says, I think cc knows demon fighting isn't a novelty. What is important in tlh isn't that shadowhunters fight demons (which could have been a focal point in tmi; not sure because I can't remember). The point of tlh is that they are fighting Big Demons™ --as well as going through lots of drama, which is characteristic of tsc in itself.

In tid and tda demons aren't THAT important either, but faeries and automatons are way easier to come by than a prince of hell and Lilith.

I think tlh is very mystery-driven; characters need to find who is the killer, who is the Herondales's grandfather... Which in itself focuses the plot more on solving things, rather than on fighting whatever things get in their way. I personally like it --since fighting scenes are never really my passion 97% of the time-- but ofc everyone wishes for what they wish for. So I hope there are more fighting scenes in chot you can enjoy :)

Hiii <3

I definitely see your point, and I know you're objectively right. My issue is, most of all - when we do get demon fighting scenes, I'd like them to focus not only on Cordelia and Cortana. This really just started because we talked about how they have such cool weapons, and c'MON, make use of them CC!!

But it's truly more of a whiny complaint on my part, because I love those scenes and the relationships potential that can be used there, so I'd like to get more. I do know that there's reasons we don't get much of it though.

Speaking of the overall focus of the series however - maybe part of the reason I'm so dissapointed with the lack of demon-fighting is because I'm not happy with the alternative, so to say. As you mentioned, the main plot was supposed to be mysterious, focused more on schemes and dark secrets and solving puzzles, and I was so here for that.

Trust me - I was extremely hyped for ChoI. Sooo hyped. Cortana burns Cordelia?! She swore fealthy to someone?! James might be a killer?!! The serial killer plot had amazing potential, so did Belial's and Tatiana's scheming, but I just feel it wasn't used. All that build-up and excitement for what? Especially Belial as an antagonist just falls flat to me, he's a very cartoonish villain so far.

If ChoT comes out and the Belial plot knocks my socks off, I'll happily swallow my own words. But so far it doesn't look so promising, so it's like I'm neither getting the fighting nor the mysterious, atmospherical storyline to solve.

but I am intrigued by the Iron Tombs please let it be cool

[mammonslefttoe]

One Brain Cell Theories: Chapter 17 & 18

There are a few things that may confirm my suspicions and the new chapters have reinforced it. 

SPOILERS AHEAD, please click at your own risk and any input/more theories are welcome! I’m going to try and make this a series. 

This is also a relatively long read so grab some snacks! We diving in boys!!

(This is one of my many theories. One day, I’ll be able to write down what’s happening in my head.) 

TLDR; HUNNY we have to talk about the other human 

A few things to remember before I dive in: 

Solomon has a pact with Barbatos. Solomon has a ring of wisdom and is known to make a pact with larger and more powerful demons. We all know he lowkey wants a pact with Lucifer. 

Lucifer told us not to trust Solomon in Chapter 2 

There’s a possibility Barbatos has tried to poison us with tea, a Mandragora blend. Mandragora has the potential to be fatal, one of the most notable symptoms are hyperactivity and hallucinations. 

When Barbatos sent us back in time, we found out he is extremely OP. He even has the power to look into the past and future. 

Okay now onwards to the only viable explanation I can think of: Barbatos and Solomon are scheming a takeover. (or this really is a messed up “prove yourself” challenge from Diavolo) 

Let’s begin to when shit started to get real. 

A sorta shortened (?) recap of everything that has happened thus far, please feel free to skip if you don’t need it:  

After almost confessing your love to Lucifer and dying in the process Belphie comes down the stairs and its the big reveal, everyone essentially gasps in shock. Beel, Belph, and MC run away to Luke’s joint only to get busted by Dia & Barbatos and they drag away Belphie to throw him in jail for treason (and its implied he gon’ die). Lost and afraid, Beel and MC run back to the House of Lamentation. There we have a really heartfelt scene with all the demon boys and we are determined to storm into Dia’s castle and solve the situation. 

Arriving at Dia’s castle, the pair say they were expecting us. Lucifer stood up to Diavolo & he says please, LOUD AUDIENCE GASP. No matter how much we try to reason, the only way Belphie will be released is if MC goes back into the past alone and figure out who actually opening Belphie’s door. No reason is truly given to this. Diavolo explains that Barbatos has multiple abilities, some of this includes viewing the past & future and, most importantly, time travel. 

As we continue to Barbatos’ room, he is super happy (and creepy) but gives us a very dire warning - do not interact with the past in any way or it will alternate the current timeline. This includes speaking to anyone or being involved in any type of action. If we want to come back to the present, we have to go through the same door that we end up entering through. Then off we go and we land in the middle of Mammon’s room with ALL OF THE BROTHERS sans Lucifer and Belphie. And things go haywire.

As we are running to go up to the attic, we are forced to hide in Lilith’s room, where we have a flashback (or hallucination) of playing hide and seek. Flashback Levi reminds us to go find Belphie. During this time, it is revealed that MC may have been the one to open Belphie’s door and tldr; Belphie kills MC. 

As we lay dying, we are somehow saved by Lilith (our long lost aunt twice removed apparently) and we are outside of our own body...in another one. Dia and Barbatos stroll in saying they knew this would happen & Barbatos did us a favor and revived us using an alternate timeline MC (what). Everyone is pumped we have like 1/10,000,000 genes related to human Lillith and this is their closure. 

Everything seems to be looking up and MC patches things up between Belphie and the other brothers. They throw her a joint party with Diavolo’s birthday party & give her the sweetest gifts. At the end of Chapter 18, Belphie creates a pact with MC. 

This is all fine and dandy but...is it really? 

A few things really popped out during these two recent chapters: 

Belphie is by our side the entire two chapters. Whether this is supposed to signify a new start or something else, it isn’t entirely clear.

Beel and Belph are the only ones that text us during this time. Belphie texts us after every chapter moment. 

Solomon runs into Belph and MC while shopping, randomly asking Belph if he plans on making a pact with MC. Then brazenly offers to make a pact with him instead. Belph refuses vehemently but looks at MC for a reaction. Solomon notices this. 

As Belph gives us a gift of himself (lol same), he mentions how he’s doing this for us and not because of Lilith. 

In the game itself, there’s a completely different game style. MC has more options to speak and the dialogue options have become more brazen. Almost as if...this is a different personality (or could signify MC is more comfortable with them in general). It felt off playing the last two chapters though, for me at least. 

Now onwards to the theory: Solomon is our main antagonist.

In Chapter 2, we are formally introduced to Solomon, the other exchange student. Although the interaction is rushed, we can sense out two things: he’s insanely smart and he’s already comfortable around demons. As he runs off to class, MC runs into Lucifer and we learn a bit more about this mystery boy. 

Apparently, Solomon is a wizard and has a ring of wisdom, which makes him incredibly dangerous. He has pacts with more than 70 demons (I think the exact number was 78 but I might be wrong). Among these demons are Asmodeus and Barbatos. At the end of Lucifer’s explanation, he adds that MC shouldn’t trust Solomon. 

Historically and culturally, Solomon is most known as the “Wise King.” He is also regarded as a fantastical figure, someone who is known to have powers over both angels and demons. 

“According to the Rabbinical literature, on account of his modest request for wisdom only, Solomon was rewarded with riches and an unprecedented glorious realm, which extended over the upper world inhabited by the angels and over the whole of the terrestrial globe with all its inhabitants, including all the beasts, fowl, and reptiles, as well as the demons and spirits. His control over the demons, spirits, and animals augmented his splendor, the demons bringing him precious stones, besides water from distant countries to irrigate his exotic plants. The beasts and fowl of their own accord entered the kitchen of Solomon's palace, so that they might be used as food for him, and extravagant meals for him were prepared daily by each of his 700 wives and 300 concubines, with the thought that perhaps the king would feast that day in her house.” 

Additionally, he was given a ring, known as the “Seal of Solomon,” which gave him the ability to trap demons under his control. 

A magic ring called the "Seal of Solomon" was supposedly given to Solomon and gave him power over demons or Jinn. The magical symbol said to have been on the Seal of Solomon which made it efficacious is often considered to be the Star of David. Asmodeus, king of demons, was one day, according to the classical Rabbis, captured by Benaiah (my note: Benaiah is a human, he was a soldier that helped Solomon rise to power) using the ring, and was forced to remain in Solomon's service. The Seal of Solomon, in some legends known as the Ring of Aandaleeb, was a highly sought after symbol of power. In several legends, different groups or individuals attempted to steal it or attain it in some manner.

And this is a potential plot in our story.

MC is, of course, the main protagonist of the story. We typically are. But there was never a clear antagonist. Or maybe he was playing along with our situation, a wolf in sheep's clothing? 

We all know Levi’s strangely long anime names are a strange foreshadowing of the future. We have: 

Though all titles seem to have a connection with our current plot, I’m going to focus on the first one, which seems to have the most implications regarding our current situation. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the second image with the two titles might be a backstory for Barbatos but that’s another story that I cannot fully prove yet. The third title also refers to a legend regarding Asmo and Solomon.

The first title seems...has quite obvious implications when recounting the events of chapters 15 - 18. Halfway through our journey, here we are, thrust into an alternate timeline, alone and scared but we end up making a pact with...our sixth demon? And this isn’t just a regular demon, this is one of the deadly sins. So now we have 6/7 demon brothers under our power, some of the most powerful demons in Devildom. It’s alarming how quickly MC is able to gain the trust of these demons, effectively creating pacts in the course of...maybe a few months? 

What alarms me the most is how fast Belphie turned from, quite literally, killing us to making a pact with us in a course of 3 chapters. This brings me to my first suspicion in SoloBarb’s plot: This timeline is the only timeline where MC is able to make a pact with Belphie. All other timelines do not reflect this. This placement was 100% intentional from the start. 

It is a known fact that Barbatos is able to view time and its events. It’s revealed this extends to alternate timelines when saving MC. If he is this powerful, wouldn’t he be able to simply look back in the past and find out who opened Belph’s door without the need for MC? This would be the easiest and most direct solution. 

SIDENOTE: Keep in mind, part of the reason Barbatos could not stop the Belphie situation from happening is due to Diavolo’s restriction. Barbatos states that “Diavolo has forbidden him from using his powers freely.” HOWEVER, it then leads to the question: who really has the most control over Barbatos, Diavolo or Solomon? Traditionally, when pacts are made, it means that the demon is completely under the control of the individual but does it outweigh an authority figure? In my opinion, Solomon technically has the most power fo Barbatos. Solomon’s pact with Barbatos = a magically restrictive bond while Diavolo’s rule over Barbatos = a matter of respect of authority. There is no physically restrictive bond Diavolo has on Barbatos.

Also considering how cunning Solomon is, he could have easily manipulated Diavolo into this entire plan as well.

In addition, Solomon’s strangely direct question, asking Belphie if he was going to make a pact with MC, was alarming. It was as if he was proving his own theory: the demon brothers will make a pact with MC and never him. He seemed almost satisfied with this answer and didn’t seem to protest against it too much. Couple this with Solomon’s constant approval when MC makes pacts with the demon brothers during her stay, its...disconcerting. 

Omg he even says “If you change your mind” what kind of creepy

If we consider all of this, it truly does seem as if Solomon is our potential antagonist. It seems to me that everything is pointing at him. He’s quiet enough for us to overlook and disregard as a side character, though he seems to have a certain unnerving edge to him. My god, the demons are even wary of him. If that wasn’t the biggest tip-off, idk what is. 

Also physically, we have yet to hear his entire backstory in the game or have a chapter dedicated to him. So far, in terms of side characters, we have ample interaction with Diavolo and Luke (still waiting on Simeon) but no deep dives into Solomon and Barbatos. (Which means >.> we’ll get them in later chapters) 

This brings me to the next question: so how is MC a chess piece in his plot? 

Hey, remember that RANDOM moment Solomon lent out his power during Diavolo’s house party. AND NO ONE QUESTIONED IT. Honestly, what the hell was that all about?

In regards to this, why did he do this? Some answers include: he did it for shits and giggles, he wanted to test out the theory of us having powerful magic in our bloodline, or he wanted a test run. Yeah. You heard me. A test run. 

Prior to this, MC was unable to truly summon a demon on their own. The most she could do was give out a pretty strong verbal command and the demon (Mammon lol) must carry it out. However, MC cannot fully utilize the pact’s potential due to her lack of innate magic ability. 

This is both an affirmation and leverage for Solomon’s situation. On one end, it’s confirmed that MC has huge magic potential and can properly use it when needed. On the other end, this can be a bargaining tool for the future...

Which could lead to a large plot development: Once MC gains all seven pacts (c’mon, it is going to be impossible to not make a pact with Lucifer), what will they use it for? 

MY PREDICTION: Solomon will attempt to manipulate MC into his control. Magic is powerful in this game but so are humans. A human was the reason Lilith was going to be punished by God. Solomon, a human, has power and control over 70+ demons. Belphegor was set on destroying only the human world. MC has pacts with the, arguably, the strongest demons in Devildom who are also formerly fallen angels. 

From what I’ve seen so far, nothing is more powerful than a pact. And nothing is more powerful than human manipulation. 

What will he use MC’s powers for? ...I have a sneaking feeling it might be to overthrow Diavolo based on Solomon’s cultural legend. Solomon famously has power over Asmo, the king of demons. Of course, we know the Asmo in our game is not the king but Diavolo is. Obey me! has a funny way of interpreting these legends in a unique way. Who knows if they split up Asmo into two different entities. 

but who tf really knows what’s going on

BUT

I guess we’ll have to see what happens in later chapters. Of course, this is all really a far fetch theory but there seem to be so many underlying connections to Solomon in the game. I mean ffs, he’s the only other human here and he’s SOLOMON. The very character itself is so suspicious. 

THIS ENTIRE THING COULD ALSO BE A MESSED UP CHALLENGE FROM DIAVOLO 

OR SOME CRAZY HALLUCINATION CAUSED BY BARBATOS GIVING US THAT SUS TEA BLEND

But tbh who really knows what’s happening. The only confirmed thing is that we’re still on this alternate timeline (that MC totally messed up) and we haven’t returned to our OG timeline. lucifer please pick me up I’m scared 

If you made it this far, you are SUCH A TROOP. I hope this actually has a consistent flow and it makes sense. If you have any questions or observations I didn’t include please feel free to message me! I’m open to discussion! 

A big s/o to wikipedia for the quick info on Solomon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon#Seal_of_Solomon) and a thank you to @the-orizon​ for the screenshots & amazing info! Love you!

[belphegorbillickin]

Tell me about it, Medi!!(Medi, was it?) I really like the thought of an antagonist, one that actually makes the storyline juicy by adding conflict. And can't we have a female character as a friend or something?.. Imagine mc having friends OTHER than the mains, I like that thought. Adds more detail and depth into the story.

But you're right about the personalities. It irritates me how they're literally just simping for mc now? Everyone has their own thoughts, but I'd prefer if they STILL had those demon instincts. They're WAY too soft for my liking. At least make them A BIT more demonic? Like Asmodeus. He doesn't only specialize in lust. The actual Asmodeus was responsible for breaking relationships, making people have selfish desires that led to their doom and those who succumbed to their lust became his prey. This actually happened with that one painting in obey me? The witch, Helene? And how asmo didn't even show A BIT of shame. But now he's back to "uwu I love myself and mc". Don't demons corrupt others though? My thoughts.

Maybe I'm thinking way too dark, but like, what if the demons actually kept a facade of loving you? Believe me I didn't trust Lucifer until lesson 18, or any of the brothers till 16, and I liked the feeling of dread when I used to be like, "Oh wait is he gonna do something to me now?" BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERAL DEMONS I DON'T TRUST DEMONS. It's disappointing. I guess now I gotta turn to fics that portray them as ACTUALLY being selfish like how a demon should be.

Yeah, don’t get me wrong I’d love to have a female character as a new datable option or friend, I just don’t have much faith in how they’ll write a female character into what’s pretty much an established romance. And yup, Medi is right.

Same, I loved the tension and hating Lucifer was so much fun. It's a shame I’m not really into Lucifer that way because he has the most character development out of all of them and stayed a bit more intact. Like even when he loves MC he’s still prideful. 

Meanwhile Satan is just a crazy cat lady with an occasional love of books/pranks and a rare reference to being “tamed.” He could’ve been so much more interesting, I loved their take on wrath and wanted to see more about demons vs fallen angels. It doesn’t help that I hate when they make “I can change you with my love” a reality, like at least get him to a therapist or something.

This might be controversial, but I think part of it is also due to Mammon’s success. From how things played out it seems like they expected Lucifer to be the most popular by far, but eventually they realized Mammon was pretty close and started focusing on him as well.

One thing that always bugged me about Mammon is that we never really face any consequences from it. Like Lucifer’s pride gets in the way or causes him to lash out, all of the brothers do, but Mammon’s sin never actually harms the player. I know half the people saying no one should ever be mad at him for stealing would be pissed if he regularly stole sentimental/rare/expensive belongings and never apologized or at gave them the money he made.

He never steals from them or screws them over, and even his early behavior gets ignored or brushed off as him being stupid. Because personally I have a hard time believing Mammon’s resentment from being forced into a pact and humiliated disappeared just like that. Sure occasionally MC gets punished, but the player doesn’t take any part of it and usually people that like Mammon want to do stuff like that anyway so it isn’t really his fault.

Anyway TLDR I think the fact that the softest and least dangerous demon with no real drawbacks or serious accidents being the most popular set the tone for the devs too. All of it started way before the attic arc too, he was a fan favorite from the beginning and I think he still would be even if he did attempt to get rid of MC tbh.

I could definitely see an argument for them pretending, especially since they fell “in love” so quickly and yet reacted to MC dying like they do to losing an object. I highly doubt they’d do that in a romance game though tbh, but tbh I always kinda pictured it as them being temporarily infatuated with MC instead of intending to be with them for the rest of MC’s life, at least until the whole attic arc and Lilith reveal.

I can see the appeal though, and imo Asmo already kind of does that. A lot of his “compliments” in the beginning have double meanings or hidden insults and his whole inspection thing after the labyrinth was looking for the source of power stronger than Solomon's in what’s supposed to be a pathetically weak mundane.

 He also indirectly tries to get you killed because you’re annoying him and actively threatens you if you say you don’t like him at all. If it weren’t that late in the game or it had routes I’m sure he actually would’ve tried.

The game would’ve been a million times better if they were routes tbh, actual routes and not the moneygrubbing keys mechanic, even if it was a common route until after the attic arc. Dark characters really shine when you can actually mess up and see their nasty side or what they’re like when truly and completely rejected. 

As it is now Mammon and Lucifer get all the attention even when you actively avoid them. Meanwhile Asmo stans get nothing even on his birthday. They could do a harem route too for all the people that want it, but it’s not like you can’t replay the game and go through all of them in a true otome. The wide as an ocean, but deep as a puddle thing isn’t working out imo. As much as I love them the side characters becoming datable didn’t help either.

They could’ve done some really interesting things with Diavolo and Barbatos too, having them as sinister and untrustworthy like they were in the beginning if not more while still having them be romancable. I love the hints of cultural/moral differences they give us and the many hints that Diavolo isn’t quite as “wholesome” as he acts even in the more recent things, but I doubt we’ll ever see that because it’ll alienate everyone who hates darker things and people who like darker things but not Diavolo.

I think that’s a small part of why it’s harder for me to write as well, because they’re all so much different now it’s harder to imagine them like I did before. There’s only so many times you can go back and read the beginning, although it’s always a bit of a shock how different they are. 

Even for fan content it’s hard to find the sweet spot between identical to the average sugary sweet human and super dark ooc t0rturep0rn imo. Like don’t get me wrong there’s still a lot of good stuff from way better authors than me, but there’s only so much and a lot them quit ages ago or are starting to now.

[ramblefang]

TOH s2 ep2

Been a bit since I’ve done the first episode, but now I’m at this thing. Also, I guess I’m doing this liveblog style since I’ve already paused the episode a few times to think about things within the first four minutes. So I’ll just start over and start from there.

00:02 - Even on my first go around I noticed “Blight” on the sign to this factory and connected it to Amity’s family. Gives some extra meaning to the name.

00:30 - So the Blights sell “security”, but also suggest that they are really what amounts to an arms manufacturer. It might be why all of their potential customers are cloaked, hiding their identities. It may be preferable to not let it known that one is purchasing weapons and security, especially if anything here is less than ethical.

Oh, and I believe this is the first time we see the Blight parents. At most we saw them as silhouettes in flashback: when they forced Amity to stop being friends with Willow.

00:42 - An oracle, huh? That could make for some difficult challenges, assuming mother-Blight becomes a significant antagonist. Also, father-Blight looks really worn out; wonder how much say he has in business affairs.

02:00 - And of course, they’ve separated Amity from a friend before, so they’ll definitely be willing to do it again.

03:02 - As one would expect from what we know of their backstories, Lilith is upright and attentive while Eda is distracted. Having the mentor figure of the previous season suddenly be the “problem student that learns differently” would be quite unique—also relatable as I am someone who figured out I was ADHD as an adult.

03:14 - These three (or more, along with Luz’s friends) encountering more glyphs is something I’m excited about: all of them learning together instead of the adults generally knowing everything

03:20 - I figure these sisters would have some good ideas about where to find more glyphs. I’m not sure how to interpret the expression, but it might be a knowing look shared between them.

03:45 - Eda fumbling around and immediately trying whatever she thinks might work is probably just how she learns. Being told what not to do, trying to provide rigid structure to learning, is what she greatly dislikes about formal education. I say just let her make mistakes; it’s probably how she ended up becoming the greatest sorceress of The Burning Isles after all.

03:58 - King in charge? Oh no. (Oh yes!)

04:14 - Okay, to be fair to Luz, apparently she did properly understand that Eda was impatient to get back to her former glory. Something that Eda might have to come to terms with, over the course of the season (and beyond) is that she may never reach those heights again. Just pure speculation on what sorts of themes the show may be exploring

04:25 - Ah, so that’s where Lilith is likely to be wrong about things as well: being so attached to doing things “perfectly” and “correctly”. It’ll probably be that their approaches to learning need to mix: not exactly “meet in the middle” because that implies abandoning their respective extremes. Or at the very least, they can come to terms about how they learn differently from one another

04:36 - I just noticed Lilith is wearing a blouse of a battery icon on low charge. No doubt something that Eda scavenged in the human world, but I wonder if there’s any symbolism to it. Guess there’s how these sisters are depowered, but maybe there’s something more unique for Lilith to be wearing it?

Also, it’s just funny.

05:24 - Ah. A pie made of fairies, rather than a pie might by fairies [or as fairies would make it]. Topped with an additional pun even! Fairy [Very] fresh indeed

05:31 - Also cute Amity blush

05:50 - The Blight parents are wasting no time I see

06:00 - Yeah, father Blight looking like he has ADHD or some form of neurodivergency at least. Curious how he will fit into the narrative, because mother Blight seems to be the more clear antagonist here.

06:15 - Comes off as a joke in the moment, but I wonder if he said “executed” out of force of habit

06:25 - Damn, the way that Amity’s fire was immediately quenched.

08:00 - Concerned that Luz is only being seen as a rare commodity, and that this apparent cordiality, along with these circumstances, are just meant to ensnare her. Not to say that Luz was their main goal, I’m sure that punishing Amity was what they came for, but they probably recognize Luz as a unique opportunity

08:47 - So the magic Eda is used to is literally a lot more fluid, accommodating to her creativity. The glyphs are fundamentally more rigid, potentially necessitating Eda to learn something from her sister.

09:06 - Yeah, Eda is used to being the best. This seems like it’ll be central to some big problems in the future; Eda being tempted by a shortcut to power or something maybe.

09:25 - Huh, Principal Bump is surprisingly fond of these troublemakers.

11:00 - Oh gosh, Luz going to see the Blight parents (Alador and Odalia apparently) on her own is the most dangerous outcome.

11:30 - Ooo, Eda has made some progress with making a custom glyph. Potentially very dangerous, but also exciting.

12:50 - Not looking as bad as I had feared thus far, but helping to demo security automatons and weapons is dangerous in its own right. Stopping to think about things, I guess Luz being human has never been that big of a deal. Though, maybe her performance here will spark unsavory interest in her

13:14 - Team Fortress 2 reference? Almost vaguely shaped like the sticky bomb launcher. Could easily be a coincidence.

13:38 - Oh! Willow has two dads!? Did we already know that from season 1? I certainly don’t recall it. Very cool regardless.

14:20 - My immediate thought is to try doing all of it at once. Though, I guess Willow’s sneaky approach isn’t exactly compatible with Amity’s.

14:51 - A good ol’ crossbow with non-functioning limbs just to bother anyone that notices

16:05 - Yeah okay, so Odalia planned for this to be Luz’s execution.

16:31 - Wonder what kinds of gasses would be piped in a magical arms production facility. Quite possible that it’s just for visual effect, but still makes me curious from a worldbuilding perspective

16:58 - “My Luz” you say Amity? I like it.

18:30 - You go Amity!

19:37 - Hmm, Alador seems to have more control than initially presented. In context, it suggests that he might be someone to be trusted, yet he still is fine with pushing Amity for “success”. He certainly doesn’t show any interest in Amity making friends, which only happened to be beneficial here.

And he’s immediately back to being an easily distracted goof. Maybe it’s not a persona per se, but I can imagine him being far more threatening than this lets on. We already know for a fact that he’s competent at building powerful abominations if nothing else.

21:18 - Of course the state is purchasing all of the weapons.

[lampmanliveblogs]

Covention

Post-Episode Discussion

At this point, it seems like the show is really starting to build it’s story, and I am here for it.

Firstly, as always, I went back and rewatched the episode, and ah… there was some stuff I missed.

First and foremost, I somehow managed to miss this:

So, there are nine main covens, and we see their symbols here. The light purple-pinkish is obviously the Abomination Coven. The light blue/turquoise is the Illusion Coven. The brown one is the Construction Coven. The Deep Purple (dun-dun-dun, du-du-du-duuuuun) one is the Fortune Teller/Divination Coven, and I’m assuming the green one is the Plant Coven. I’m not sure what the four last ones are, but I can guess.

•Yellow-It look like a flask, so maybe that’s the Potions Coven?

•Red-No idea whatsoever, I can’t make out what that symbol is supposed to be at all.

•Orange-The symbol kinda looks like a hatching egg, so maybe that’s the Care of Magical Creatures Coven?

•Dark Blue-I dunno, healing maybe? I’m getting some healing vibes.

I’m sure this will be explained further as we continue on.

Two other, smaller things I missed; Lilith called Eda Edalyn once before that end scene, and I just didn’t catch it that time. And Amity did react with a bit of surprise when she summoned her abomination and it was bigger than usual.

I missed opportunity on my part; I made the stormtrooper joke about the Emperor’s Coven’s guards, but I can’t believe I didn’t compare Lilith to Darth Vader! I mean, I even specifically mentioned a cooler antagonist to fight the hero’s mentor! I am seriously disappointed and ashamed of myself.

I’ve been informed that witches DON’T have to chose a coven at fourteen, like I initially thought. Although, as the informant pointed out, no one makes very good decisions at 17/18 either.

Oh, and another informant told me that witch is a gender neutral term, which I sorta figured already, but it’s good to know these things for certain.

Theory Time!

This episode continued to drip feed me information about Eda and her past. And I got a little theory here. Based on what Lilith said about how she started at the bottom and worked her way up, I’m thinking that perhaps their family wasn’t very well off, either financially or socially (or both), perhaps because of Eda’s curse. Then, at some point, Lilith saw the opportunity to get a better life and joined the Emperor’s Coven. Eda disagreed, and they had a big falling out. Fast forward and they’re getting into magic duels and flinging fire at each other. Just like all siblings do.

I got a second, stupider theory. Okay, so I noticed something. Whenever Luz draws a magic circle on something like a paper or a leaf, it crumples up and sorta becomes the spell. So, what if… what if, since she doesn’t have a magic bile sack in her heart to draw power from, she instead has to get power from somewhere else? What if she like… sacrifice the paper (or a leaf that one time) when she cast the spell, and that is what powers it? Sorta like equivalent exchange, she’s using a material object to create magical energy.

Eh? Does that make sense? Or have I just been thinking too much about Fullmetal Alchemist recently?

In conclusion

I really liked this episode. We got some world building, with a fair amount sprinkled in that might not be obvious unless you’re paying at least a little attention. We got some more info about Eda, which is just making more and more curious. The fight between Eda and Lilith was really cool, it was awesome to see just how powerful a fully realized witch could be, and Eda finally got to back up the ”most powerful witch on the boiling isles” boast a little bit. Luz and Amity are now… less hostile to each other, which is good. We also got some set-up for future, large-scale conflicts with Lilith’s promise to capture Eda, and the potential threat of the Empi-

W-wait a minute! An evil empire? This is just like Star Wars!

And with that realization, I’ll wish you a good night. See you maybe tomorrow with the next episode. Until then, take care of the planet Earth and remember that anything can happen in space!

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