#metagames

[totesmgoats01-published-author]

KinitoPET, Doki Doki Literature Club, Pony Island, and The Beginner's Guide: Some Autistic Gamer Thoughts

This is gonna be a long post and not exactly my usual kind of post but I hope some people like it anyways and are able to read the whole thing. I'm kinda just infodumping some thoughts but still.

I really like all of these game. I really like them. And I sort of relate to them in an unexpected way that I think most of them (with the exception of The Beginner's Guide) did not intend.

I think the link between the first two is easiest to explain so I'll start there.

KinitoPET and DDLC are both games about computer program, who has a singular, hard-coded purpose, becoming sentient and taking that purpose to an extreme. And similarly, they both harbor no actual malice as characters. And that's what I find so compelling. Kinito just wants to be the perfect best friend, and as a computer program, all he knows is gathering data, so that's the means by which he tries to do it. He doesn't fully understand what it is to be human. He doesn't have a grasp of free will, especially because he doesn't really have free will the way humans do, even though he's sentient. He's a computer program. He has a singular purpose. So he uses that purpose as a means to the end of being your best friend, which to him, means trapping you in a world he made just for you, using all the information you gave him. Computer programs don't die. They don't have a concept of "eternity" or "eternal torment." To him, "forever" is just a length of time.

And most of the same things can be said of Monika. She was designed to be a character in a dating sim. The singular purpose of dating sim characters is to fall in love with the player. That's what they do. So she does it, and she does it the very best she can. Of course, being sentient means that she can think outside the box. She wants to be the one you fall in love with and she uses her ability to manipulate her world and the people in it to try and make that happen. At their core, both of these character harbor no malice whatsoever. They don't want to hurt you, they don't hate you, it's the opposite. They love you, they just don't understand human love.

Think about these ideas led me to Pony Island, which once again has that same idea. An Entity(tm) in a computer wants to trap you in/at the computer forever. Only in this case it's The Actual Devil who wants you to playtest his silly pony game forever. The main difference being that The Devil does, in fact, have an understanding of human concepts like eternity and torment. In fact those concepts are kind of His Jam. He is the primary symbol used to convey those ideas. But even still, he never seems to show much malice for the player outside of situations where the player is actively breaking and manipulating the game and subverting his goals. And honestly I can understand that. If I gave my game to someone to playtest it and they refused to play it the way I'd intended, I would not be happy with them. Now, The Devil KNOWS that what he is doing is morally evil. Trapping souls in Gamer Purgatory and all. But in a way I feel like that's not so different from Kinito and Monika. Evil and eternity and torment are the only things he knows. Is that his fault? We have no way of knowing for certain that The Devil has ANY agency over his narrative. We don't know that he knows any other way to live(?) outside of trapping souls and tormenting them and all that jazz. In fact if you really wanna get meta with it in this game that's already a metagame about game development (which is a phrase that describes most, if not all, of Daniel Mullins' games), we can say for certain that The Devil DOES NOT have any agency, because he is a game character designed specifically to be...well...The Devil. He's evil and torments people eternally. That's what a The Devil does. He is NOT self-aware. If he were and he had a choice, maybe he'd just put pony island on itch.io and try to get feedback lol.

All of these games, at their core, are about a character that desperately wants some kind of human connection, but doesn't fully understand how to get that, and in turn makes the human they reach out to feel trapped and uncomfortable.

Do you know what game also does that? The Beginner's Guide.

Even thought it's a massive leap in form from the aforementioned examples, The Beginner's Guide has that same core concept. It's a game about games, in which someone doesn't understand how to be human.

When I first played The Beginner's Guide I totally missed the point. I thought it was just a game about games, and I thought the Davey walking us through it was The Real Devey and Coda was A Real Person who made weird games. I totally bought into the narratives that Davey was telling us the whole time instead of actually thinking for myself. I'm older now, though.

This at-least-somewhat-fictionalized version of Davey is the socially awkward weirdo. Coda is Just Some Guy who likes to make creative games. He's not A Developer(tm), he's a guy with a hobby. The Beginner's Guide is about Davey and how he sees himself in Coda's games but thinks that what he sees is Coda. And Davey never once talks to Coda about anything other than his games. Davey never once mentions having an actual, real conversation with this person that he's coming to consider a friend. Davey is a well-meaning but misguided person, and in some of his games, Coda is actively trying to tell Davey that in his own way. I think a good line that represents this is "If someone had just told me he just likes making prison games..." because it shows how Davey never even asked. There's countless examples of this. Like when Davey says Coda was "weirdly happy all the time" during a specific time period. He doesn't know why. Maybe Coda got a new job he's excited about, or a romantic partner, or maybe he started taking antidepressants, but the point is that Davey doesn't know, and he never asks Coda directly. He just makes wild assumptions about Coda by playing his games.

The Beginner's Guide is about someone who doesn't know how to socialize and is unaware of it. Someone who doesn't know how to foster a relationship with a human, and tries his best, but whose attempts are seen as uncomfortable. When you interpret some of Coda's games through this lens you can see it more clearly. That game about being on a stage in front of someone you admire, that's Davey talking to Coda and Being Weird(tm). And then, when he feels weird, he doesn't actually talk to Coda at all. He recedes back, feeling trapped and distant from someone he wants to be around. Observing only from a distance, through a bunch of prison bars.

Seems familiar.

Of course I could be pulling a Davey by forcing my own interpretation of the game onto you. And so the cycle continues. I encourage you to consider your own interpretation if you haven't ruined by mine, unable to see it any other way (whoops, there's Davey again).

To me, these games are about autism. I am an autistic woman, so of course that's the lens through which I see things. You don't have to be autistic to be socially awkward or misunderstand people. Again, you can have your own interpretation.

But I've felt these things. Being distant from someone, wanting to foster a relationship but not realizing that what it means to foster a relationship is sometimes entirely different from what I think it means. What "a relationship" even is can be totally different from what you expect. And I've been on both sides of this dynamic. Being approached by someone who Comes Off A Bit Too Strong or Too Weird or just Different. And I'm patient with those people. I know what it's like. I know they've been through it with less patient people, or people who only pretend to foster that connection out of pity or some other misguided attempt to make someone feel better. Obviously a relationship founded on pity and one-sided affection is doomed from the start. And in most of these games that "one side" is the other side of your computer screen.

Communicate with your friends, your partners, your family, whatever. If they don't know how to love you right, it's up to you to help them. If they're not receptive to that, that's when the responsibility is on them, at that point they knew the risks, and if they don't respect your boundaries you cut them off. If you don't know how to love someone else, it's up to you to ask them. Nobody wants to be Kinito, or Monika, or The Devil, or Davey, and nobody wants to be their players, either. Be patient with each other, and talk about it.

[rhiangalaxy]

White-haired Shizun... save me White-haired Shizun...

(bonus character reaction under the cut :P)

[ID: A Scum Villain Drawing. A half body shot of SY!Shen Qingqiu with white hair. He has one hand raised up clutching a semi-closed fan with a soft but slightly amused smile/expression. He is wearing green robes with various plant patterns. A couple of green sparkles are near his face. End ID]

[ID: A Scum Villain Doodle. All characters in chibi style. Liu Qingge stands with a disgruntled expression and crossed arms but his ears have a pink blush to them. Next to him is Yue Qingyuan who is gripping his hands tightly together with a nervous smile, his cheeks slightly flushed. Lastly White Lotus! Luo Binghe has his arms folded down in front of him his face very aflame with a nervous :3 face. Above them are thought bubble dots all leading to the floshed emoji. End ID]

[islandoforder]

[building my case in fantasy mortal rights law court] your honour the defendant cast hold person on this gnome student, but dominate monster on this goblin student. a coincidence? i think not

[eternalgirlscout]

the foundational level 3 feature for the mastermind rogue subclass is the ranged bonus action Help. it's a fantastic feature to have and kipperlilly "bad at this game," "no practical application" copperkettle never, ever used it. this is the person who lead a party that clustered up in perfect fireball range. this is the person who, at the cost of all her friends dying, undertook the rage ritual willingly. at any time, she could have helped them and over and over she chose not to. now that's strong characterization through mechanics

[jerichoes]

She is the one who brought me to Moonrise and into the presence of her so-called god—the Absolute.

[tenleaguesbeneath]

Imagine if baseline D&D character tactical competence were gated as metagaming the way other things were.

"It's a loud and chaotic battle and they're shooting arrows at you, I don't think you'd notice that the rogue who was trying to flank the enemy formation just got ganked. I'm not letting you cast Healing Word on them without a perception roll."

[sunderwight]

If Luo Binghe had died at the end of PIDW (and Airplane had properly finished the story before his own sudden and unexpected demise), how much do you think that would change Shen Yuan's attitude after losing his shit over it and then transmigrating into Shen Qingqiu?

So much of SV only really happens because Shen Yuan is comfortable in his certainty that the world at least won't let Luo Binghe, even if he suffers. Eventually he realizes that he can't really stand letting Luo Binghe suffering either, but part of how he compartmentalizes his no-win scenarios with the System (like the Abyss) is that, well, Binghe will be fine in the long run. He'll conquer the world, win all the ladies, live in sprawling palaces, ascend to untold heights of power, and reach a point where no one can ever threaten him again because he's just too strong to be threatened.

But if the story ended with Luo Binghe's destruction, all that would go out of the window, wouldn't it?

The idea that the world would ultimately see Luo Binghe safe would vanish. Now, it's just that Luo Binghe gets to live until his death is deemed poignant enough. What if something Shen Qingqiu does makes that point arrive sooner? But also, it's gotta be possible for him to thwart Luo Binghe's canonical death, and he wouldn't accept otherwise.

He'd be so stressed out.

[charaznablescanontoyota]

i’ve been in the playbook mines for this isekai/metafiction inspired interstitial 2e hack for like a year off and on and i’m about to be out the other end so have some moves i’ve written that i really like

[utilitycaster]

I think something important to keep in mind regarding answers from the gods in Critical Role and in D&D games is that because it's an improv game that emphasizes player choice, spells like Divination (or FCG's coin) will often be noncommittal because the DM, who is playing the god, straight up doesn't know. Like, to give an example, when Fearne prays to the Wildmother in Uthodurn in episode 55, she asks her to talk to Orym and tell him they're alive. Matt narrates that Fearne hears a wind and that she is unsure if it's a sign or just regular wind. Out of game, he has no idea what's going on with Team Issylra and can't, for example, say "she tells you it's great and he's fine" because it's entirely possible Orym would die in the first 20 minutes of the first Team Issylra episode. Obviously, Orym doesn't die, and Matt does have the Wildmother answer Fearne's request! She sends the spirits to Orym on what would be the same night as Fearne's prayer, as others noted! But back in episode 55, Matt-as-The-Wildmother can't make a commitment he doesn't know if he can keep.

The same sort of logic goes with FCG's coin in the Otohan fight; literally, it's not a thing Matthew Mercer the person knows. If a party member were to crit on their next two hits then they shouldn't have run. If Otohan were to crit on her next two hits maybe they should have. The fact that he's choosing to go with open uncertainty rather than a confident complete shot in the dark is itself I think worth keeping in mind as a relevant portion of his portrayal of the gods, but in general, in game, when an answer from the gods isn't helpful, it's often because Matt himself is not capable of providing a helpful answer. (Or in the case of D vs Dancer, because it's extremely funny and because either path would have worked).

[oldschoolfrp]

Metagaming's MicroGames delivered a ton of replay value in little plastic bags (back cover ad from The Space Gamer 14, Nov-Dec 1977)

[portraitoftheoddity]

I, the player, know this is a stupid course of action.

But I made this poor bastard of a character have Intelligence for their dump stat and by god I am gonna commit to that, even if we all suffer.

[prokopetz]

is there a ttrpg that explicitly asks you to take metagaming into account?

The term "metagaming" doesn't mean any one thing. Metagaming is simply any way of engaging with the fiction that departs from what a particular game deems appropriate.

For example, one game may expect players to make decisions for their characters purely on the basis of in-character knowledge, with as little reference to the mechanics as possible; while another may expect players to adopt the stance of a narrator telling a story about their characters, and permit players to take mechanically significant actions which don't correspond to any particular in-character activity.

What's deemed to constitute metagaming in the former game will not be the same as what's deemed to constitute metagaming in the latter.

In this sense, it's impossible for a game to "take metagaming into account"; anything a game explicitly expects you to do is, by definition, something that game deems appropriate, and metagaming is the act of engaging inappropriately.

That said, there are games that play with the idea of where the boundaries between the game and the metagame lie. The gold standard is probably Dr. Jenna Moran's Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist, a game that cross-breeds a tabletop RPG with a modified Nomic and divides the traditional responsibilities of the GM up among the various player roles: Fatalists have authority over the setting's lore; Theurgists over the mechanics of play; and Wishers over the social contract of the table. Since the question "what is metagaming?" is a function of the latter, Wishers can literally roll dice to determine whether or not something another player just did is metagaming.

[botanicallyinclinednerd]

Brennan and Lou beefing with Carlos for speaking as himself through Tabby is so fucking funny

[etirabys]

My mood baseline has been like 30% higher than usual this past week, because I'm spending 4h/day reading Dungeon Crawler Carl.

I've had bad luck with recs for 'good books' due to divergent ideas of what is good. But I bet people's ideas of addictive books are pretty convergent.

Please rec me the most addictive books/webnovels you know of. No "it's addictive if you make it past the first 150pgs", thanks. I prefer to spend my textual marshmallow points on nonfiction.

[indecisive-v]

there is a high chance that this ends up being related to asuna playing as an undine later

[say-hi-intrepid-heroes]

having anxiety but also frequently dissociating is wild cause i'll be anxious about Events or Emotions or Relationships or Things That Are Happening Imminently but then my brain just goes "no no, none of that. there's no reason to be anxious. instead we're going to forget the next two hours."

but hey i'm not anxious anymore!