#meta discourse

[nonevahed]

their mask-off statements of sadistic and homicidal intention vs our noble and very funny exaggerated jokes

[juh-wasnt-deactivated19691231]

imagine writing words on tumblr. like i can't picture a more wasteful venture

[bedlam-moon]

(meta discourse fakeblr)

🃏 luckysixes Follow

I'm so sick of people being gross! And Bad! And Evil! If you do things, you're fucked up!

[long meandering diatribe on the many reasons why If You Do Things You're Bad]

.....

[tangent]

.....

[diatribe continues]

🃏 luckysixes Follow

Oh yeah! People who stand back and do nothing! And let people do things! They're! Just! As! Bad!

[three full-screen lengths of diatribe about how people shouldn't just be let to do things]

🔞 kinkcourse Follow

look op, stop trying to pretend your bullshit is an actual attempt to help people, a good half the posts on your blog are varying forms of religious apologia, which! Includes Doing Things! Like you're rallying against here! Really, what's your plan?

🟢 me

(wow i fucking love seeing ten pages of someone being an asshole before figuring out why i got this reblogged. oh, look, no tags, guess i'll just block the person who reblogged it)

582 notes

(fakeblr ends here)

tbc i mostly hate that the ui that doesn't surface information like number of participants in the rb chain, number of total messages, tags, etc at the top before i start reading a thing

[runedscope]

Funny when i see like a second level of discourse, discourse about a specific type of discourse and its like i have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

[caprice-nisei-enjoyer]

I have linked this before, but I want to take a slightly different perspective on it. The thrust of this essay is that if you want to understand the world, you must open yourself up to the possibility that you do not yet understand the world! Because maybe the truth is something that you haven't considered yet.

But what of your interlocutor?

Most people aren't trained in rhetoric (or even critical thinking?). Most people don't spend their days arguing on the Internet. Most arguments are really ways of asking for status or attention. That means most people are deeply uncomfortable retreating from an argument! It feels like losing something important!

If you want to have better arguments, you must give people the ability to walk back bad behavior. And not in the way Twitter does it, where you must immediately apologize for any and all crimes you are accused of. Because that feels even more like losing! Even if you have committed genuine breaches of law and morality, apologizing is hard! When you find yourself in a novel argument, you must allow it to end with no one admitting fault.

Some caveats: You do not have to want better arguments. You do not have to ignore repeated patterns of behavior. You do not have to indulge everyone who wants to argue with you, even if there is no pattern of behavior. Blocking someone or leaving a space can be a no-fault way to end an argument. There is no* method that will guarantee a satisfactory ending to any argument.

[greatwyrmgold]

This is one of those conversations that I can't form an opinion on without context. Nameless Commenter is obviously responding to something; what is it?

There are situations where killing off a character "for 'emotional impact', or 'realism'" is called for. Characters like Desdemona, Eddard Stark, or Ai Hoshino are killed for very important narrative reasons, which could be described as "emotional impact" or (arguably, in some cases) "realism," and the time the audience gets to bond with that character is important.

There are situations where writers do that when it's completely pointless. Think of every woman who gets maimed or murdered to make her love interest sad. This is pointless, cruel, and wasteful—all the more so if the audience has had time to bond with the character.

It's very, very hard to discuss discourse in abstract. Most arguments are valid in some circumstances and invalid in others.

im starting to think you guys dont like it when stories make you feel things

[priveetru]

thank you for your effort against the voting discourse, im too annoyed just seeing these people all the time spreading misinformation

Happy to do what I can!

And keep in mind if you're getting out and voting democrat you're already top quartile for making positive political change in this country :)

Not all of us are the types of people who want to throw down with the massive well of misinformation on the internet these days.

[madlori]

On Tommy Kinard

"It's not that I don't like Buck and Tommy, it's just happening so fast, he's underdeveloped!"

*clears throat*

Here is a recap of what we know about Tommy. And this is just off the top of my head, I didn't rewatch anything.

He was closeted at the 118 before and found the atmosphere repressive. He (probably) acted like a dick to fit in. When presented with the chance to make things better, he took it, and developed positive relationships with Hen, Chim and Bobby.

He was in the army and trained there as a pilot.

He knows Muay Thai and has a set up in his house.

He likes to work on cars and has a lift at his house (where TF does he live is my question - he has some nerve being agog at Buck's loft if he has a muay thai gym and a car lift)

He is down for violating departmental policy at the drop of a hat (has done so on at least two occasions) to help a friend and has no problems fucking with the fire chief.

He is a nerd. He likes pub trivia and has incorrect Star Wars opinions, and can keep up with Chim in the movie-quoting department.

His favorite movie is "Love, Actually" and he likes craft beer and monster trucks.

He came out when he transferred to Harbor and felt comfortable enough to stop lying about who he was.

He follows MMA and has friends in Vegas who like him well enough to hook him up to a frankly insane degree.

He'll risk his own life and engage in helicopter skulduggery to save people he doesn't know...I mean, apart from doing that for a living.

He'll take time out of his day to give a tour to the cute boy who called him up and offer to give that boy flying lessons (a significant time investment) which was probably maybe about more one on one time with said boy.

He yearns for the belonging and found family that the 118 became after his departure and probably befriended Eddie hoping to earn a plate at the cookout, aside from just clicking with him.

He likes Eddie and Chris a lot and they like him. Chimney also likes him.

He was attracted to Buck right away and was emotionally aware enough to pick up on Buck's jealous feelings over Eddie and his friendship, even if he was surprised that it was him Buck wanted to get to know.

He respects and values Buck and Eddie's friendship and wanted to make sure Buck knew that.

He's brave enough to shoot his shot by planting one on a dude.

He's a lil bitchy but also generous and ready to throw in with this insane guy who's inviting him to a family wedding after 0.5 dates.

He showed up to a bachelor party when he was on call because Buck asked him to, then showed up in turnouts after fighting a fire for like 12 hours yadda yadda we all know this part.

He has got it BAD for one Evan Buckley, who he only calls "Evan" which according to LFJR is a conscious decision by the writers, which fascinates me.

He was willing to take a chance with a man just discovering his sexuality BUT wasn't willing to put himself through that if the man in question wasn't ready for it. When Buck showed him that he was, he was all in.

He does NOT take his coffee like that.

Oh and

He's a beast.

This is VASTLY more information than we knew about ANY of Buck's previous girlfriends with the possible exception of Abby. Even Taylor did not get this much development over 20 episodes (things we knew about her: she was an ambitious and ethically flexible reporter, did not eat fudge, had a dad in jail, and sometimes jogged for exercise, she was capable of being nice and did love Buck, I believe). And as for it being fast? Sometimes it just be like that? A relationship doesn't have to have year(s) of buildup. Sometimes people do just meet, like each other, and start dating, in fact in the real world that's usually what happens. It's in TV Land that you have to have eighteen seasons of UST before pulling the trigger. Most of the time in reality people just vibe off each other and decide to go out and THEN they learn about each other.

And they've got a great start. You'd think they'd barely spoken by how a few naysayers are talking about it - the loft scene was like a solid five minutes of very open conversation, the Cringe Date seemed to have gone well and again, open and honest (if cringey) conversation before Cockblocker Eddie showed up, and the coffee meetup was again....open and honest conversation. They're not gonna show us long scenes of them exchanging firefighting stories and workout preferences (I mean, I'd watch that, but it's not what the show is about).

In conclusion, anyone saying he's poorly developed or the relationship is "out of nowhere" either is being willfully obtuse or has ridiculously unrealistic expectations for relationships and/or what constitutes character development.

As for whether they have chemistry, that's a matter of subjective opinion. Given that a TON of people watched that harbor tour scene (even when it was posted as a sneak peek) and started going "wait...what's going on here...are they flirting??" might be a clue. People were talking about Bi!Buck maybe happening with Tommy based solely off that clip of the harbor tour and what they were seeing between them. And imho that loft scene was crackling. But we all see things through the lenses of our biases, myself included.

Got that off my chest, whew.

[greatwyrmgold]

I'm annoyed that there are people who think "I dislike this stereotype" automatically equals "I dislike people who fit this stereotype".

Stereotypes aren't bad because they depict bad people; stereotypes are bad because they pigeonhole a whole category of person into a specific mold. There's nothing with people who coincidentally fit that mold, but that's a completely separate issue from whether or not the mold should exist.

i've seen a few posts talking about the common transmasc stereotype of: "he/they soft boy who likes cavetown"

i dislike this stereotype as much as anyone else, but i still think we should respect those who do fall into this stereotype. most people who identify with this are young queer teens who are trying to just live their lives.

a lot of transmascs gravitate towards cavetown's music because there's not many other artists or communities with people like us. especially one's as welcoming and usually positive as the one created by cavetown and his fans.

[tea-cat-arts]

Sometimes I wonder what Jiang Cheng could've become if his parents didn't instill a mix of "crippling fear of failure" and "impossibly high standards" in him. Cuz like, his dad was holding him to the vague standard of being as good as wwx, his mom yelling at him whenever he goofed around like wwx, and then both of them expressed disappointment when he's less successful than wwx. The thing both of them seem to ignore though is that wwx got where he is entirely because he had the freedom to fuck around and find out- he trained tirelessly because he made training fun for himself, he was innovative as a cultivators because he experimented and persisted through failures, and he was able to act in line with the Jiang clan moto because his actions had less political pull than members of the main family. Jiang Cheng on the other hand- if he fucked around he got told to "stop stooping to the level of servants." If his achievements were lesser than wwx's, he got either dismissed by his dad or yelled at by his mom to try harder. And if he picked fights with the Wens, they'd have an excuse to destroy his clan. Like ya- no shit that'd create an adult who's terrified of failure.

The kite game serves as such a good metaphor/embodiment of this set back- with Jiang Cheng never being able to shoot as far as Wei Wuxian because he pulls back and shoots closer the second he misses.

And its sad too because he's shown to be pretty brilliant when he's in "fuck it, we ball" mode. Like, when he's not freezing up, he manages to pull off things like rebuilding his entire clan from the ground up, leading armies and taking back territories from the Wens, and I'm fairly sure he's the only character we see counter the Lan music cultivation techniques (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that last one. Also feel free to add any of the other cool shit he did that I'm blanking on at the moment, cuz I know I'm forgetting something).

That being said- even with his anxiety, he's still one of the top cultivators. Imagine what a force of nature he'd be if he could sustain "fuck it we ball" mode

[brainrotbutobsessed]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The repeated theme in BG3 for every companion's story is a loss of autonomy. By a more powerful figure in their lives.

Then people will turn around and suggest Gale is the exception to this? His theme overcoming hubris? His ultimate lesson is 'fuck around and find out'? Are we sure? Are we sure that for some reason, they decided to break away from the theme for one character? Like please come on people.

[ecoterrorist-katara]

The tragedy of Katara’s parentification

Sokka and Katara were both parentified, and it’s a profoundly life-changing thing for both of them. One of the saddest things in ATLA, though, is how Sokka sort of got to outgrow parentification, but Katara never did.

Sokka’s told to be the man. The provider, the protector. He’s not so good at the former (his hunting failures are a consistent source of comic relief), and he takes failures of the latter very, very hard. He doesn’t manage to save Yue, and that wrecks him. After Yue, he becomes extremely protective of Suki in a way that’s borderline offensive to her. He’s willing to do anything to protect his friends and his family, including something as irresponsible as breaking into the Boiling Rock. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Sokka is the only one of the Gaang who unambiguously kills. The rest of them may technically have clean hands because of cartoon logic, but Combustion Man is very dead, and Sokka is the one who killed him. We don’t know how he feels about it, because the show never goes there, but I have a pet theory that Sokka is so uncharacteristically (remember he was team “leave Zuko to freeze to death”) against Katara confronting Yon Rha in The Southern Raiders because he’s the only who knows what killing feels like and wants to protect Katara from it.

But by the end of the show, Sokka’s in a place where he can start to let go of his need to protect. Objectively, all his friends are unbelievably powerful and can take care of themselves, including his sister and his girlfriend. Suki is the one who saves him in the final battle, representing not only a reversal of his initial cartoonish misogyny, but also demonstrating that he is worthy of protection. And of course, he and his friends saved the world, so there isn’t really an enemy that he has to protect them from anymore. Sokka’s loved ones create the conditions under which his parentified behaviour is no longer necessary. Sokka would still have to take the first step to stop seeing himself as the one who has to lay his life on the line, but at least it’s possible for him.

But not Katara.

Katara had to take on the mom role after their mother was murdered, which meant she was responsible for domestic labour and emotional support. Sokka says in The Runaway that her role was to keep the family together. Unlike protection, that’s always a full time job regardless of the war. We see Katara spending more screen time than anybody cooking, getting food, mending, and generally doing women’s work. We see Katara giving everyone emotional support, including strangers and her enemy. We see Katara putting aside her own discomfort and her own hurt in The Desert because if she falls apart, they all die. Nobody ever showed her that she doesn’t need to be the only one who cooks, or that somebody else can be responsible for the emotional wellbeing of her friends, or that — god forbid — someone else can actually be responsible for her emotional wellbeing.

That’s why I never cared for the Ka/taang argument of “he teaches her to be a kid again!” Putting aside the fact that Katara ends up taking care of Aang a lot more as the series goes on, the whole tragedy of parentification is that you can never again be a child. That part of your childhood, your god-given right, is robbed from you. It is extremely precious and important to still be able to be a kid, but breaking free of parentification is not about seeing yourself as a kid. It’s about breaking free of being responsible for everyone’s feelings and behaviours.

For Katara, that responsibility is not problem of perception, but of reality. Unlike Sokka, who was told and shown that his loved ones are capable of protecting themselves, Katara has zero reason to believe that her loved ones are able to feed and clothe themselves and not fall apart emotionally. Between Toph and Sokka who emphatically don’t want to do this work, it all falls on Katara. Telling a parentified child that they just need to loosen up is akin to telling an overworked mother that she needs to just relax (“happy Mother’s Day! You get a break from chores, which you will catch up on tomorrow because nobody else is doing them”). It doesn’t accomplish anything if nobody creates the circumstances under which it’s possible to let go of responsibilities. A lot of Zutara fans, spanning all the way back to the early days of the fandom, like the “Momtara and Dadko” trope where Zuko also does chores. Why? Because even without the concept and language of parentification, many fans recognized that Katara’s performance of domestic and emotional labour is inequitable and probably very taxing.

Growing out of parentification is about more than just letting go of old expectations: it’s also about finding a new way to value yourself beyond the role you grew up with. I’ve said this before, but it’s very important to acknowledge that just because a kid is parentified doesn’t mean they’re actually good at being a parent. In fact, it’s probably a given that they’re not, because they’re kids performing roles that are developmentally inappropriate! Sokka remains a shit hunter; he becomes a decent fighter but he’s still miles behind his friends. A big part of healing from his parentification is finding another area — strategy, engineering, project management (what else do you call that schedule) — where he actually excels, to which he can dedicate his time and from which he can derive satisfaction and a sense of identity. For Katara, fighting for the oppressed and combat waterbending give her that. Crucially, however, Katara does not stop being a girl when she becomes a warrior. She’s still responsible for domestic and emotional labour. Unlike Sokka, whose protector duties were more or less relieved as the series went on and he found new ways to contribute to the group, Katara continued to perform her old role in addition to her new one (which is depressingly realistic btw, look up feminist theory around the concept of the second shift). Still, it’s important that she found these new ways to value herself and her contributions…

…which disappear in her adult life. Where’s adult Katara fighting for the oppressed? Where’s adult Katara enjoying her status as a master waterbender? Where’s Mighty Katara? Where’s the Painted Lady? Where’s the person who vanquished a whole Fire Lord?

What do we know about adult Katara? She’s no longer a rabblerouser or an ecoterrorist. She did not translate her desire to help the downtrodden into a political role, like being Chief or on the United Republic Council. She’s not known as the best waterbender in the world, only the best healer, even though her combat abilities are what she took the most pride in. Even as a healer, she established no hospitals, trained no widespread acolytes (except Korra, I guess?), and made no known contributions to the field.

What Katara is known for…is being a wife and a mother. The same role she was forced to take on at age 8. One which she performed for the next 80+ years.

[quillthrillswriting]

i'm sorry, but the atla fandom is the only place where i've ever seen people unironically use a 12 year old telling his friend that killing someone out of grief is maybe a rash decision and not healthy to argue that that same 12 year old is being controlling and is an unhealthy partner

you guys know that murder is like....a bad thing....right? especially for a 14 year old? you guys know that revenge murder isn't a healthy strategy? you guys know that anyone who would encourage that is probably actually the unhealthy one in that scenario...right??

[priveetru]

You know I'm having a good time advocating a point when my entire blog just becomes reblogs of the same post for like 3 pages.

[conarcoin]

the concept of "lore" ruined discussion of mcrp because like. people use it to mean some kind of weird hybrid of plotline and worldbuilding but ONLY if the server is drama-focused otherwise it doesn't count i guess.

so you get people saying like. hermitcraft isn't a lore server. smplive isn't a lore server. sdmp isn't a lore server. and it's like yeah this is true because "lore server" is a meaningless slop category you guys made up. they very much have plotlines and worldbuilding though 💀

[weevil-mastermind]

Some ideas why people on the internet specifically might think the economy is worse than it is:

1. The Internet is very biased towards the young, and young people are generally less financially secure than middle aged people, because they aren’t as far along in their careers.

2. The Internet is slightly biased toward people in the tech sector, and right now is a bad time for the tech industry. The era of low interest rates is over, and all those tech companies that were reliant on venture capital now have to figure out how to actually make a profit. Layoffs ensue and hiring slows.

3. There’s a strong negativity bias in Internet discourse (and in present day American politics in general, but especially on the Internet.) There’s a lot of doomerism and pessimism on most websites I’ve been on.

These explanations aren’t why people in general think the economy is doing poorly, but they might be why people feel especially strongly about it on the Internet.

55% believe the economy is shrinking, and 56% think the US is experiencing a recession, though the broadest measure of the economy, gross domestic product (GDP), has been growing. 49% believe the S&P 500 stock market index is down for the year, though the index went up about 24% in 2023 and is up more than 12% this year. 49% believe that unemployment is at a 50-year high, though the unemployment rate has been under 4%, a near 50-year low.

My new calling card/mantra: You cannot policy tweak your way around this