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horizon-verizon · 17 days ago

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hotd feels like a downgrade compared to got, got had tank writing after they didn't have the source material to work with everything in hotd looks cheap despite had bigger budget this include the cinematography and the visual a bit yellowish like they try to hide something, the costume, even the actors? how the hell d&d with small budget at that time got Sean Bean (Lotr), Lena Headey (300), and Peter Dinklage (Narnia) and hotd got..... Matt Smith ... Sorry im not british he's probably popular there because dr who stuff But the rest? Emma D'arcy pushing 30 and this is their debut as a lead? i can understand why they never got cast for big movie or show before this they just using Emma as their diversity token.

George probably regret ever said this show would win eight Emmy.

To get one thing out of the way, GoT was always going to have a "dip" in quality sometime down the road bc its head writers and producers David Benioff & D.B Weiss expressed that:

they wanted to make the series palatable to "soccer moms" and I think football enjoyists...basically to it less magical or to focus much less or develop those instrinsic, story-making/plot-driving elements of the original work. Bran, Dany/dragons, direwolves, greenseer, Lady Stonehart, etc. all were cut or severely reduced to focus more on the politics and social chaos, which was very dumb. What was left in the scripts were was in the available books and it is still "half" of what was in those books. not just a "little" trimming, but VERY CRITICAL storylines and characters and whole characterizations of those characters!

As the entire series more or less can be quickly told as an informal indictment against people focusing too much on gaining power for themselves to observe their environment and be good leaders for others....I refer to the Long Night and the Others (the show renamed them to "white walkers"), who are an environmental cataclysm that only dragons and other sorts of magic is needed to defeat. In turn, they deliberatly meesed up Dany's character in nearly every which way, esp to mischaracterizae her mannerism and valiues. There is both sexism and xenophobia in how they handled/developed her arrival at the North, how they developed all Brienne, Arya, and Sansa's arcs that has nothing to do with in-world sexism and xenophobia but their own. They even severely mischaracterized Jon, tbh!

GoT was far more enjoyable not bc D&D had less material. Once again, they didn't "get" ASoIaF from the start and basically HALVED the entire story, so yeah, at one point even if they hadn't had the last books they would have been pressed to properly justify some things that GRRM might have written for the final battle...a lot pf people would ave been lost as toow soem tins worked or ow we ot there...bc the magic element was treated as subsidary.

Anyway, GoT was more enjoyable bc:

the writers at least had much more space to develop their characters seeing as they got much more than 10 episodes a season

they didn't wait long between seasons

you can see where they took in more consulting from the author than not, than Condal from GRRM (you see such from reading the books, comparing it to the shows to see what was left out, what was rewritten and how much, etc.)

and D&D got more access to the motivations behind the politics they craved to portray more then magic, more than Condal or Hess or whoever did for the entire F&B Targ list of generations, which you'd have to get to write for the Dance

by the last few seasons, they themselves have said that they wanted out and to write for other shows so they phoned it in; because magic the lack of last few books are really them not having anything to fallback on and pretend that they

I will give the HotD writers a tiny bit of leeway, since F&B is a history book that takes one to be able to read through secondhand, culturally inherited, etc. biases very well unlike the main books and it doesn't provide direct PoVs. Heads Up - Context

Though PoV chapters/writing also often has biased characters, those characters do not only provide summaries of their feelings and observations in those PoV chapters. They give corroborated observations as well as their own near-unfiltered thoughts and reactions to events/people...there is more obvious, direct, or firsthand information that we can trust is coming from a more obvious, traceable phenomenon/cause and effect. Whereas F&B doesn't record people in their absolute most intimate moments but events from a comaparatively more distanced persepctive.

F&B is, as PhoenixAses eloquently said, a secondary source that uses a lot of primary sources like Daemon and Otto's letters and royal/official written declarations of Aegon II and Viserys I and Rhaenyra and so forth. In any sort of non-fiction writing and rhetotical excercise (historical writing, essays for example), a secondary source is any document (video, written, audio, etc.) that draws on one or more primary sources and interprets or analyses them. A primary source is document that gives the direct experience of a thing that is being researched or studied, but not necessarily just one's perosn's thoughts so much as a contemporaneous news report of a thing not long after said thing happened, a photograph, or an audio or video recording of the actual event itself. A photograph of a group of concubines, a recording of a war prisoner being tortured, or the diary of a prince are all primary sources. A textbook that includes them is the secondary source.

F&B is all 2ndhand (different from "secondary source") information of collected testimonies form various people at various points of time witin events information and various maesters' an even some primary sources (Mushroom and Septon Eustace) speculation of what most likely happened between Targs and why they did certain things. Plus what pieces of dialouge and hearsay the maesters managed to preserve after nearly 200 years post-Dance. It was the maesters' and our job as readers to try to decipher what could have most likely happened in incidents where there's missing or suspect information and explain why with as much reliable evidence/knowledge of the society as possible--bc there is always a limit to what could have happened. You need to have a lot of knowledge of how people in particular positions of society will try to present or unconciously presents images of people they like or dislike or believe will be a good/bad influence on whatever the writer/source thinks matters. How those people and people in general construct arguments for why and how something happened, accept specific forms of Westerosi cultural biases as well as the systems that birth them and the history that justifies them.

Therefore, while some online will try to imply that this means one can do whatever they want to create something totally not possible in the orig lore and the story of the Dance ("unreliable" = "all or most of it is fake and propganda") or think bias = propoganda (they aren't bc I could have a certain bias against goldfish but I don't have fliers out there trying to convince anyone that goldfish are disgusting creatures). It actually means that it behooves you to DO YOUR RESEARCH into the lore of pre- & post-Conquest Westeros, the characters not just in F&B but also AWoIaF and the So Spake Martin Website, the main series (so many people think Rhaneyra was always and universally ahted in Westeros or that it was a severe minority that was neutral towards her....not the case. Even Shireen's famous and much-abused quote was more about the "tragedy" of how the royal infighting caused wide destruction, not how hateful rhaenyra supposedly was. In fact, there's a lot more evidence of Aegon II being credited as a subpar and even hateful ruler AND person than for Rhaenyra in noble Westerosi society! And Rhaenyra is called a "Queen" unironically by both Martin and many maesters in all the books). That doesn't mean they liked or approved of her being the heir or being queen, it means that they acknowledged she ruled and was made heir.

I personally would suggest doing even a bit of historical research into how medieval to early modern period European elites thought of religion(s), health and illness, bastardy as a concept and how it changed over several years, etc. as GRRM did to see why he writes certain characters the way he does. this isn't a historical fiction series, though, as som fans seem to want it to be. It is fantasy fiction, so despite F&B being a nonfictional piece of work within Westeros...it's still also a fictional piece of work part of a fictional series doen by a real man. It obviously has themes or narrative relations and tie ins and context for what is happening in the main books. None of these books are intellectually isolated installments! Book franchises with different styles never are!

So I also said it often before, but again Condal and Hess--who are the head writers who get to decided what are the final drafts and what direction the other writers will write and how, plus the directors in some capacity and more than others can--wanted to/did write a story with a much simpler and out-of-touch, benevolvently sexist story where they try to make their female characters less "hateful" to their audiences and it resulted in them dampening their fire, passion, ambition. So these women--who so happen to be the most prominent and driving characters of the entire story about SEXISM of the society and the Targs' assimilation tactics--overall are made boring in a critical way where D&D did not.

Here's the thing. We can and have already seen how terribly sexist they rewrote Dany to be more Cersei-like and other women being written towards a "temptress" or "harpy" (opposite end of the sexist spectrum opposed to how HotD writers have done), but they also still portrayed women who didn't take shit lying down. That is always going to be more entertaining, bc these women are doing stuff and have some type of brain activity/strategy going on, even when they are not overtly being confrontational. This would be true of men; if a man is doing nothing, it's innately less superficially entertaining than a man or child or whatever who are making moves and using theit brains to do it.

So yeah, GoT was more entertaining. But not bc of this too-simple idea of the books being unfinished.

And then there's how Hollywood has in the most recent years been more lead and taiolring their most prominent shows/working producers and writers to skew cis white men....the demographic who simply do not understand the ful breadth of life or has insight into women of any race, class, sexuality...even women of their own race, class, etc. Hess has shown herself to be still way too out of touch in the class department, even with her being lesbian. There is an article called "Hollywood's DEI Programs Have Begun to DIE. How Hard Did the Industry Really Try?" as well as multiples statisticalreports of cis white men on the older side as well as of higher classes still ruling the industry in almsot all ways in terms of the economics and who's directing what, etc. So yeah, this show is merely a reflection of what has been happening to this country, the industry, and its population's steady, historical race, gender, class divide.

#asoiaf asks to me #game of thrones #got #book vs tv comparison #got critical #d&d #got writing #hotd writing #asoiaf

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wench-and-jezebel · 2 years ago

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Sherlock Holmes (2009) Reaction:

Jezebel (@typicalopposite) reacts [with occasional asides by Wench (@scripted-downfall)]

[This reaction is sponsored by the Actual Snack Food I'm eating: I has a soda. Be proud!] Same! Mtn dew! It’s been a while since I had one… I’ve already drank three ☠️

Oh suspenseful music

RDJ! He loooks so different without facial hair [He does indeed]

Oooooof. Ouch [That was a very... awkwardly placed shimmy down to the knee tho… Buddy, why you getting that close?]

So like Sherlock’s thing. Is he’s really smart? Orrrr [Ma'am- Do you not know Sherlock Holmes?] I know he’s a detective? [Okay, hold up. Pause… This is kinda a crucial bit of information ☠️] Ok [His thing is being observant. And yes, being well versed in a lot of subjects, but-] Soooo like shawn [Yes, like Shawn. Pretty much exactly like Shawn, but a little more drug addicted and differently fixated (e.g. not pop culture, and more science in general)]

Is that John? [Yes] Well. I’m already seeing some Things. “I like the hat” “Thanks just picked it up” [Also… "I thought I left the stove on" "You did" DOMESTIC BLISS AT ITS FINEST]

Oh shit Watson got moves too [Ma'am, Watson was in the military aksldjf] Idk why I thought he just stood to the side like an npc [Nah, he was an army doctor]

☠️☠️☠️☠️ [Oop-] “Your colleague… won’t be moving with you” [*simultaneously* "Your colleague? Won't be moving with you, will he?" Hmmmmm, why you asking, bud?] ☠️☠️☠️ SBC

Aw man Watsons leaving. Well, “Leaving” [No wonder Holmes is moody] Does he tho? [I say nothing]

He’s like I must make myself look mentally unstable…. Oh I always do… damn

[Men will get on their knees in front of their best bro buds] Detective bros? Crime solving bros? Mystery bros? Hmmm… [Baker Street Bros] YESSSSS OMG

[Poor pup :(]

Eww, not the woman [Holmes not wanting to meet his best bro bud's girlfriend/fiancee]

“You wear a jacket” Why did you think I wouldn’t like this? ☠️☠️ [I said I couldn't remember it well aslkdfjalskdfj It's been years since I saw it. I said I wasn't going to stake my rep on it]

The smile. THE SMILEEEE! I LOVE RDJ

YESSSS

Oooof… Oh, let me fangirl over my love- your fiancé

Oh, ma’am… You shouldn’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to

I THOUGHT HE SAID “YOU’RE STUPID” [alskdjf nope] BUT HES MAKING HER FEEL IT ANYWAY [I mean, she did ask] OOOOOOOOOOF

WELL DAMN, HE AIN'T EVEN PHASED [That's another thing about Holmes... He does tend to be a bit arrogant.]

What is happening?!? [Holmes boxes] Victorian-era boxing

Oooooof, sweeet lord. This is hurting me

They are like… well damn

[Did I mention the drug-addicted bit? He used morphine and cocaine in the books.]

Then you’d be a bastad.

Oh look: Bastad.

That looks unsafe

[Watson sulking] Well, damn. [Boyfriends bickering] ☠️☠️☠️ Like every single line, I’m like. Yep. I be seeing the it. [Yeahhhh me too. Like I said, it was years ago that I watched this last, but now. Now I see it.] If I didn’t know there was hella fanfics I would already be checking, but I’ve seeeeeen it. [I think most are about Sherlock tho. Not Sherlock Holmes (2009)] A lot I’ve read are for this one [Oh. Well okay then. I yield to your expertise. I haven't looked ☠️] I seek them

[Bruh, even this interaction verges on. Things.]

Oh shit. The way he slid into those bars

Buddy he has no sane thoughts in his head [Which buddy?] The bad guy

Ack. Sweet lord

["Death is only the beginning" They plagiarized The Mummy aslkdjfa;lskdfj] Oh damn

Or is it 👀👀

Rachael McAdams!!! I love her!

[This is a slightly less malicious BBC Musketeers Athos/Milady, btw]

Oh, burn: “And you’re between husbands”

[Actually, ma'am... I wouldn't put it passed you to poison an envelope, ngl. Milady-coded.]

Ohhh Watson being pouty and jealous now [What else is a guy's bud bro bestie to do?]

The screech [Matt Meese-sounding mf] Oh ☠️😂😂😂

I’m ded. He fell into the building

[WATSON] “It’s nothing to do with me” [LITERALLY DOING THE NAIL THING]

[“‘You’ means ‘us’” "’You’ means ‘you’" Watson, don't pretend]

Ackkk Marryyyy 😤😤 the name just keeps a bitchy reputation (I say in defense of Sherlock being bitchy)

That’s me [Lestrade?] Yup. Can’t pronounce the big word AND too scared to do my job

Sweet lord… Blech

[Bruh. Y'all are saying the same thing at the same time. That's kinda Subtext.] 😂😂😂😂

[Supernatural, you say?] 👀👀👀 Carry on my wayward soooooon

["Scratches around the keyhole" *PTSD flashback from BBC Sherlock starts*]

Oooop- “Brothersss” She means Bros

["Give her my best" *Hates himself for saying it* That's some right-fine pining, my dude] ☠️☠️☠️☠️ [AND HIS SMILE WHEN JOHN CAME BACK???] But. But marryyy 😩😂😂😂 I love it

Oh mah gawd. The poor frog

[I love their outfitssss. Btw, this is how I dress. Well, half the time. The other half of the time, it's cargo pants and flannel as;ldkfj] ‘Cause you were born in the wrong time [This... Is true]

Moood

Thasss a big man

The screeeeeech

[Ring go bye-bye. That feels symbolic] ☠️☠️ [He does marry her before the next film, though, iirc] Ahhh I see

“Brother” [Sir didn't even remember the important ring he just bought in favor of running after his best bro bud]

Welp, he’s asleep.

Bitch better wake up

[Um. Bud. Buds. That was– Ya know what. Okay.] aka if you go we both go

Oh, Watson ["Having been talked into going with you" Bro, you went back without a single bit of coercion] Don’t do the “I just risked my life for you then bitch you out for it” thing

[Y'ALL. Y'ALLLLL] “Steal your clothes,” huh? [OUR DOG?!?!?] Yep. I can hear the fic ideas pinging off. Like those troll hug bracelets…If you haven’t seen the movie you won’t get that [alksdjf nope, I haven’t]

Like, how she was smiling? Like… Bruh. Ew

[Also, Watson acting like he's a paragon of relationships without Holmes’ interference when he just lost the ring he'd only just bought] Right?!

Not me sitting here hoping this has the sappy ass (Sherlock) “fine, you want me to go away, I will”… (Watson) *miserable, comes crawling back* [I KNOW. SAME. AND I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT DOES OR NOT.] If it doesn’t the fandom will ☠️ If the fandom doesn’t gimme 30 mins and it will 😭😂☠️ [I, personally, am a fan of this conversation being followed by serious personal harm to person 1. Angsty though it is... Well, I guess that's on-brand] I was gonna say that but my thumbs were cramping uppppp [as;lkdjf] Look at us being sadistic. But with a happy end. [As I said... on-brand]

Le gasp! His son!

SOMEONE LET HIM PICK A LOCK! SHEESH!

["I hit a dead end... and my bud bro bestie is fighting with me :("] Now I sad

“Oh, dear” ☠️☠️

[Once again: the lighter, (only slightly) less toxic, less murder-couple-y Athos/Milady. And the "less," btw, is by a smidgeon, not a bunch]

He ded

Damn… Jealous. That’s a nice tub. [You're about to not be jealous] Ooooop ghost son’s a coming

[As I said, much less jealous… He just drowned/boiled to death in it.] Blech. BLECHHHH

So is this supernatural like… for real? [Whyyyy do you think I'd tell you this?]

Poor maid

Is he like wigged out by dead people? Sherlock, I mean? [What do you mean by wigged out? I thought I knew what you meant but don't see the context] ‘Cause at the first one it was like he couldn’t look at the body. Then it seemed like he was weird when he walked in this room. But he stopped this time. [No, he's just observing. And also hiding shit from the cops.] Fair

I’m still feeling some type of way about her getting John out and not Sherlock too… and John just left. The dishonor! [I KNOW]

["Thanks for that, by the way" John, give a bit more than that] Dishonorrrr. Hmph, and it’s a movie so any divorce arc we get is gonna be short-lived. [That's the plot of this film: Baker Street Bros solve a case While Divorcing] ☠️☠️☠️☠️ [Go to Google: that's the blurb that comes up] I bet you if I typed that into google there’s a fic [With a worse ship name]

["Not us." "Right, of course." Ummmmm Byler Rain Scene-coded??? "What did you think? That we were never gonna get fiancees? That we were just gonna sit in our flat all day and solve crimes for the rest of our lives?" "Yeah. I guess I did."] ☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

😂😂😂 [Bad guy did the swoop again]

Nooo. Noooooo. I’m ded. He fucking shot in circles and used all his bullets

Oh shit

OH SHIT [GAH DAMMIT LET HIM PICK A LOCK] OH SHIT OH SHIT [He still hasn't been able to :(] This is like a fuckign saw movie

["Don't get excited… because I'm taking off your belt"]

Sweeet lord

[I love her outfittttt. Once again: that's how I dress alksdjflsakj]

He got to pick one [He did!]

[Also, why does he look so uncomfortable when she hugged him alksdjf] I KNOW

Oh shit

[Oh yeah. Watch this. I do remember this one, actually. I remarked on this one even back when I first watched] Ooooooof

OOOOOF

I LOVE THIS COP [Also, he couldn't get Holmes to focus unless he confirmed Watson was alive elkasdjf;lkdsajf]

I KNOWWWW 😭😭😭

Ack bitchy lady lol

Run, Sherlock! She’s onto you! [She's actually being frustratingly not bad, ngl] Hmmmph. She just has a bitchy face, though. Like, she squints menacingly when she talks.

[But also. Buddy obsessing over the case because Now It's Personal] I KNOWWW 😭😭☹️

[Bruh, it's Howl's Moving Castle. House boutta move] Now he has to eat a star

Sir. [...] Well, then. [Cas: “You look terrible.” Dean: “You know, it wouldn’t kill you to lie every now and again” vs. Watson: “You look gorgeous” Sherlock: “Somehow, I knew you wouldn’t leave.” It’s the same scene.] 😭😭😭😭

A snek

I keep wondering why he keeps talking like this. (Like oh he’s being funny) but no. No that’s just how they talk ☠️☠️☠️☠️ [Yup]

‘Ello, ‘ello, ‘ello [I've heard that somewhere before] I think the new angel in GOmens watched Sherlock Holmes [THAT'S WHERE]

Oh shit

[HOLMES GOT TO PICK ANOTHER LOCK] You go buddy!

😂😂😂😂 He said soldier boy

[He. he did not get to pick the lock apparently] Oh noooo [He had the key] For shame

Shoot him. Now please

[I love her vestttttt]

Oop- Lorge guy is back

[Teamwork makes the dreamwork] 😂😂😂

This man and just easily breaking bonesss

“Course I can.” Buddy. He is quite big. You sure

We know, John, we know.

Noooooo. Nope. That’s where I forfeit the deal I had with scary mystery man. Fuck that.

Ooooooof [A fitting irony, that] Right?!

[This is a cliffhanger for the second film, btw. Which we should watch... tomorrow] YESSS

AWWW he’s leaving [:(] Poor Sherlock

[BRUH HE GAVE- HE GAVE IRENE'S PENDANT TO HIS BEST BRO BUD FOR AN ENGAGEMENT RING?] Le gasp

Wot. WOT. ["MY TONGUE IS GOING; I'LL BE NO USE TO YOU AT ALL" CONTEXT? WHAT CONTEXT?] ☠️☠️☠️

["Our dog"]

Oooop. We’re there. Being able to control anything with the touch of a button? It’s the future.

– – –

Jezebel: AHHHH! New ship unlocked! Well, it was already unlocked, but now it’s fully activated

Wench: Congratulations, my dear :)

Jezebel: Ok so movie end point... as was expected I love it and I definitely want to watch the second tomorrow 😁😁😁😁 I loveeeee RDJ so I figured I would too! 😂😂 but like my husband said when I asked, there’s not many movies I don’t like. I’m very easily pleased lol.

Wench: We’ll have to do it tomorrow, then, after my work’s done :)

Jezebel: Hmpppphhh Maryyyy 😤😤 and I don’t even really have a reason to not like her minus her name is just attached to bitchy women… ok, that’s a lie, she’s bitchy too! 😂😂😂😂 Not, like, god awful. But.. it’s the eyes

Wench: Ma'am! Problem child.

Jezebel: But aside from all this. The main reason we are here… Sherlock and Watson… are… Welp they are in love obviously. Like. Duh. You do not act like that with just a friend. I see what the hype is about and if the blatant chemistry- er- “subtext” is there in the show too. Then yeahhhhh it just is not deniable

Wench: I. May have just tuned out, my deepest apologies. I got distracted. By The Musketeers. I’m making you watch it. BUT. Anyway… fair! And other movie thoughts? (I don't really have much to add... I've seen it before enough that it's just kinda. There. Also, is hella late and my brain be unhelpful rn.)

Jezebel: I 👀 I can’t think of any.

Wench: Ma'am, you condensed the entire plot to the ship and bitchiness

Jezebel: Welp…. Help! Ask me about something cause my mind is panic erasing as we speak

Wench: … The bad guy? The plot? The acting? literally anything??????

Jezebel: Okayyyy! So The bad guy looks just fucking like Stanley Tucci! But it’s not and as soon as I saw who he was I remembered in another movie he is in I thought he was Stanley Tucci again lol. But this guy actually has been in a lot more big movies!

Wench: alskdfj

Jezebel: The acting? Ma’am! How dare you! The acting was :Chef_Kiss: spectacular. Period. 😂

Wench: Hmph. You said to ask stuff. It's not like you'd answered that before.

Jezebel: The plot. To be honest I kept getting lost in them flirting and then trying to get my thumbs to type fast enough I was confused for a bit about what was even happening in the plot. Past there’s a bad guy who was executed but didn’t die, or maybe he did but then came back they don’t know. And he is killing people ☠️☠️ but I got it all now! 😂😂

Wench: …

Jezebel: Shush! I gotta say tho… I love movies set in the past that have like some hyper advanced technology. That’s so simple to us now!

Wench: Yeah, that’s fair :)

Jezebel: And… Okay, now idk what else to say 😭😭

Wench: Nor I; perks of me running on very little sleep… This has been the most boring Wench half of the reaction in the history of Wench and Jezebel, but it's fineeeee.

Jezebel: 😂😂😂😂

Wench: It'll pick up for tomorrow... Sequel then?

Jezebel: YES!

Wench: Aight… til then :)

#sherlock holmes 2009 #sherlock holmes #john watson #johnlock #or as we like to call them:#baker street bros #irene adler #mary watson #we're posting this at 2 am btw #just for a glimpse into our mental states #warning for those who don't know this blog...#jezebel is very shipper. her dislike of mary stems from this. forgive her her sins #reactions #movie reactions #jezebel (pr)

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