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murdockchronicles · 8 days ago

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“Karen and Matt are as close as they've ever been and there's some pretty nice chemistry there. We start off at a pretty good place. I dunno know how long that will last! [laughs]”

Charlie Cox in an interview for SCREENRANT, NYC CC 2024

context and thoughts below!

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LOOK AT THAT SMIRK, HE KNOWS WHAT HE’S DOING

honestly, i’ve been thinking about matt and karen and my expectation for their relationship in DDBA, with frank also included and also heather

if i had to guess i’d say that i don’t think matt and karen are going to be together by the end of this season but it’s maybe a possibility for them in season two?

the context of the interview, the question and his full answer is going to be at the end of this post, but the interviewer doesn’t ask him specifically about his relationship with karen, rather than the trio’s friendship and how they’re doing

now we know that charlie is karedevil/mattkaren #1 shipper, he’s the captain of that ship, but i didn’t expect him to talk about his relationship with karen when i heard the question, and this is why im hopeful about them

this season is probably going to redeem matt and karen’s ship for a lot of people because of how honest they’ve finally come to be to one another, something that wasn’t the case in previous seasons

i think we are going to get some cute flirty scenes between the two of them and I CANT WAIT

it’s not going to be more than those maybe flirty scenes cause i think they’re going to be focused on finishing some storylines (frank and karen, and also heather i guess), but i’m happy to see that they’ve finally? a chance to happiness!

also charlie saying “i dunno how long that will last” is about his whole answer, his relationship and his happiness in his friendship with foggy and karen, not necessarily matt and karen’s romantic thing

but LETS HOPE that just means they’re gonna be angry for a hot minute and then back to friends cause if this about a certain someone maybe possibly d-wording, i’m gonna throw hands

anyway what are you guys’ thoughts on charlie and vincent’s interview? matt and karen? foggy, karen and matt as a trio?

i’d love to hear your thoughts!

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Now Charlie, for you, we also know that Elden Henson's coming back is Foggy. We also got Karen Paige coming back. Where are they, as in a relationship, at the start of the season for Daredevil: Born Again?

We are in a really good place. The three of us and things have been working well. The law firm is thriving. Matt, I think, has found a really good balance between his day job and his nighttime shift. The other two, I think, they feel certainly from the impression that Matt gets from them, that they've kind of made peace with that as well a little bit. Karen and Matt are as close as they've ever been and there's some pretty nice chemistry there. We start off at a pretty good place. I dunno know how long that will last! [laughs]

#daredevil #matt murdock #daredevil born again #karedevil #karen page #charlie cox #mattkaren #foggy nelson #daredevil born again spoilers #born again spoilers #ddba spoilers #matthew murdock

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bunisher · 6 months ago

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frank castle, grief, corruption, choice, and the mess that is the punisher season 2

been having some thoughts, and in my opinion, the worst part about the punisher season 2 is that season 1 ends with this:

“You know as long as I was at war, I didn’t really think about what when it was over. I think that might the hardest part. The silence. The silence when the gunfire ends. How do you live in that? I guess that’s what you try to figure out, huh? That’s what you guys are doin’. You’re working on it. I respect that. I just… um… But when you’re gonna look at yourself, truly look in the mirror, you gotta—yeah, you gotta admit who you are, but not just to yourself, you gotta admit to everybody else. First time in long as I can remember, I don’t have a war to fight. I guess, if I’m gonna be honest, I just… I’m scared.”

….. and then they do absolutely nothing with it in season 2.

no, seriously, they do absolutely nothing with frank castle and his fear of sitting with the fact that he is alone, a widow, a childless father, with a new name and an entire life ahead of him. and i’m going to rant about it.

we leave S1 in group therapy. we pick up across the country, in michigan, in S2. he hooks up with a woman named beth while wearing his wedding ring on a chain next to his heart and getting ridden, playing house with her kid the next morning, and we as an audience are led to believe that frank castle, a man who daredevil rightly clocked a year ago as being unable to grieve, is able to do this with having no little to no difficult feelings. how much time has passed? not even two years. and then, while he is sitting at the bar, he finds another war to fight. as the season progresses he just decides after saying the above that this is who he is and who he has always been. he kills his ex best friend who could’ve helped him prevent everything and ships off the teenage girl he spent an entire season bonding with. he loses his one remaining friend and in the end, we see him tell madani that he’s already busy with his own stuff, and during none of that besides his talk with maria’s headstone does he reflect, despite them being his motivation for everything in S1.

except… he was thinking about after, and how he didn’t know how to have after. he was looking at himself in the mirror and fully admitting his fear to everyone. so what happened? frank was doing everything except trying to sitting in the grief, sit in the shit, and the silence. even him traveling is him doing something to distract himself, an act of avoidance, but it only serves as a plot device so that something else happens to him and he has to react. he’s just in the wrong place at the right time. the role of the punisher is again thrust upon him.

let me explain why i really feel this is due to the inability to write grief and why TPS2’s bad story and writing is a side effect of it. in every “superhero” movie in the mcu, death is simply a motivator for something, and they do it again in punisher season 2 after leaving us with the uncomfortableness that is the reality that vengeance will not solve grief. but instead of sitting with it, we have another death that desensitizes us as the audience once again and is used as a plot device. that’s literally how his and amy’s dynamic is introduced. he just reacts to everything around him, and yeah he could choose to not help, but he doesn’t. and as much as i love some gratuitous violence with punisher, damn would it have been to good to not just having something happening in his vicinity that causes him to react. to instead see the conscious choice of frank actively choosing to use his grief as something to continue his war until that’s all that he is, until it’s not even about his grief anymore.

his family’s death in the comics is framed as a tragedy even that just happens, and frank’s decision is to ignore the process of grieving, not go to the cops, and take matters into his own hands. by the time we meet frank in his first appearance, he isn’t even named. he is only known as punisher. the nmcu changes his origin into something that he has direct ties to, and similar but completely different to the comics, he ultimately, probably, could not have prevented their deaths because he didn’t have power or knowledge. it was him vs not only his former second family of the marines, but also the cia and elected officials such as reyes. yet, frank is the one who feels guilty and responsible, as if he could’ve prevented it, and we see this though his nightmares that people hate. to him, by just existing and his family choosing to love him, he feels he killed them. this is his own issue. he feels guilty for surviving when they did not, and chooses to stay alive in order to seek his revenge. this is the choice that leads him to cross paths with daredevil.

however, the context of the series in punisher season 1 also tries to go against the fact that it is not his fault and say that it actually is his fault, because frank is an unreliable narrator, and despite him being under the impression that what he was doing was completely legal and approved, he was somehow in the wrong and deserved to be punished for what an entire squad of people participated in. he even asked if it was and was lied to. and since he couldn’t have been behind the video because he was who pulled the trigger, the entire season drives into him taking accountability for what he perceives as his fault for his family’s deaths, and then because it wasn’t actually his fault, the government rewards him out of both fear and apology. and then what? we have no clue other than madani quitting and joining the cia with a chip on her shoulder because the report was changed so they could be protected. however, she still chooses to work for this system and uses her power in order to try and recruit frank, which he rejects because he does not want to do the pointing and shooting for someone else under orders like he did in operation cerberus and in war.

this is part of the problem. they don’t go into that and then proceed to refuse to go into grief or talk about who frank is besides that. the fatal flaw i believe mcu makes is that when they go with the idea of corruption, they also then proceed to place the issue onto individual characters. with DD S2&S3, we see that the ones who need to be put in prison are the ones enforcing it and getting away with crimes. schoonover is the blacksmith, reyes tried to kill frank in order to cover up her mistake, fisk uses the law to his advantage by manipulating people and holding leverage, by using his money as power. in TP S1 it is agent orange, who is revealed to be a part of the cia and comes from old money dating back to the first colonies in the usa, and he was funding cerberus with drugs, slipping right under homesec’s nose and when threatened with exposure, attempting to kill everyone to maintain his power. and while this theme of money and corruption is a good one, they fail to acknowledge that other characters like fisk or rawlins exist, and we as an audience have no idea about them simply because they’re not tied to our protagonists. just like reyes or the fbi agents or rawlins are tied to them, they are also characters that existed prior, and there are characters similar to them that exist after with no ties to them, or very loose ones that are still corrupt.

going back further, we see this with roxxon corp in daredevil S1. the old man with cancer who is fighting against the NDA who was being sued by the company because he shared information with his oncologist, and foggy is the one who suggests, “well he broke the contractual agreement.” matt on the other hand states that it isn’t okay, that maybe what the law says isn’t always right, that maybe they’re not fighting for the right side. but again there is this idea that it’s an individual problem instead of a systemic issue, and while they hold up a glaring light to it, ultimately the writers don’t really go into it. matt and foggy leave their old firm and then later matt and elektra fight the hand, killing the leaders, more individual characters.

and they do the same thing in TP, but worse because of how S2 is written as a follow-up. they ignore the corruption and ignore the grief. it would’ve been interesting to see a punisher who chooses to eliminate corruption like what was done to him in his fashion, aka, with a lot of murder. it would’ve been an interesting story for the first episode to show a frank castle who acknowledges his grief, acknowledges the silence, and basically says without saying that he can’t do that, that he’s making the choice to actively seek things out because he can’t handle the silence, because he is terrified of it. this would allow us as an audience get to see the lack of justification to others, that it’s wrong, that he is unleashing a war, but he justifies it because he nothing else to live for, and believes what he is doing is right since nobody else will and he has nothing else to lose. and it is, above all else, his choice to fight a war for innocent people that the law does not help.

we see in daredevil s2 that there are people who he effects (the boy who cries about his dad in the courtroom) and that not only does frank care about the impact he leaves to innocents, he does care about the lives of them as well. we see this TPS2 when he thinks he’s killed children, when he prioritizes saving the teen couple over killing billy at the carousel. these are morals that define what he does and serve as motivation for who his targets are, and they should be important. frank is a character in the comics that only maintains rapport with heroes because he cares about innocent people. he does not kill without reason. that’s how he maintains his status as an antihero. otherwise he wouldn’t be allowed to do what he does, he would be locked away by shield or the avengers or killed.

we see in certain issues that he goes after corrupt cops, politicians, high up enemies that think they’re safe because of money and power. nmcu tries to do this and then ends the series by killing gang members at the end of s2 after a whole story about corruption that couldn’t be solved any other way besides murder that was hidden by the govt. he started off killing the irish gang members and then ended with killing…? yeah. it only to put him back to where he started in s2 of daredevil. that’s right.

in my opinion, it falls flat because the whole thing ignores not only the source material (did y’all know amy is mentally disabled and her dad is a cop in the comics?) but also ignores what they did prior. all in order to lead to an underwhelming ending that could’ve left him in the same place as he was in season 1 if he had chose to keep going with his war. all of this is only part of the reason why the entirety of s2 doesn’t feel the same as s1. and it might be part of the reason frank sometimes hardly even feels like who we meet in that pawn shop in s2 of daredevil at times (ie: many people have pointed out him leaving That Guy in S2 was ooc and them going there was fairly pointless filler). we don’t have any character development or growth, and instead of him choosing to continue his cycle, he is more of a passive character besides his choice to go after people following the inciting incident. things happen and he reacts. he does not have an impact on the city at large or really outside of the people who are tied directly to him, situationally or by others. he does not become the lone wolf that he is foreshadowed to be after leaving micro and his family, he takes in amy for the entirety of the season, accepts curtis’ help despite it being reluctantly, and the only way his downward spiral is viewed is as someone who he has always been. he’s justified in his hunt for billy because it’s personal and frank’s mistake is seen as him leaving him alive, so again there’s this angle of guilt and the inability to grieve, but nothing is done. he unceremoniously kills billy and then everything is wrapped up. amy leaves, curtis leaves, frank is alone, and then he becomes all of the things we are supposed to think of him as off screen just so he can be brought back in DDBA.

so why even end that way in S1? why even have S2? idk. all i know is, i started S2 and stopped. i read up on it and know pretty much everything that happens, but it didn’t interest me then and doesn’t now. i worry a bit for how these topics are going to be written moving forward, and honestly i won’t even get into daredevil’s writing issues with grief, but i expect to see some form of loss in DDBA that’s brushed off either at the very end (like with elektra and father lantom) or at the beginning of the show so that there can be some action. because to prove my point, mcu was originally going to lead the show with foggy being killed off, pretending that karen doesn’t exist, and—what?

so, yeah. frank’s choice? that’s only a title of a song. corruption using money? it only matters in these instances and is not a problem in any other context. the law? the definition of good and moral and works for everyone. justice? will always prevail because everyone is equal under the law despite the amount of times we have seen otherwise. death? oh, it has to mean something and/or be a plot device for the protagonist. grief? doesn’t exist and can’t be shown on screen because it’s too real. i think mcu’s problem with this stuff is glaringly obvious in the storyline of punisher S2 despite the good set up of S1. i think it’s hinted towards in daredevil, not super bad in the defenders, but is pretty obvious if you look at mcu collectively. if you don’t believe me, here’s a video essay on catharsis and grief in regards to nwh that inspired this post. go give it some love if u can. it only has 3k views plus a couple hundred likes, but it is wonderfully made and helped put into words some things i wasn’t able to before.

#honestly i probably could write more but i definitely should not #/rant #frank castle #the punisher s2 #nmcu inspired #comics inspired #mcu inspired #nmcu daredevil #daredevil tv #the punisher #daredevil born again #ddba #ddba spoilers #grief writing #anti mcu #analysis #bun.txt

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