#marika plucks her son’s eye out

[epicfroggz]

On the subject of Messmer’s eyes!

I think his original eye color was green, like the winged serpents, while his other eye was that of the base serpent, bloody red. O mother “plucked out his eye” and replaced it with the seal, which sealed the red eye shut too. But the base serpent was a major part of him, and sealing it was not without its consequences—physically, he became blind; mentally, well…

[izunias-meme-hole]

You've been rebloging a decent amount of Soulsborne stuff, so if you have time, can you say who your favorite character's are in all these games?

Oh... well a fair amount of my thoughts CERTAINLY changed, but I'll give you a top 10.

Number 1. Messmer The Impaler (Elden Ring) - Messmer was certainly a welcome surprise. He was the firstborn son of Queen Marika, ultimately the one who personally oversaw the genocide of the hornsent in the Land of Shadow, and event so horrific and cruel that its impact could still be felt within the present day. He was afflicted with a curse at his birth, in which a dark and malevolent snake threatened to eat him from the inside, which resulted in Marika plucking out his eye and replacing it with a seal of grace. Sounds like quite the monster, right? Well here's the thing. Messmer's a surprisingly good boss, like he literally preserved his enemies culture inside a storeroom just because one of his knights requested it, and has at least some level of compassion. Sure some of his men defected after finding out about the true nature of his existence, but there were some that even stuck around because they know who he is as a person. So why did this great guy commit literal one of the most horrific events in history? Well you see, Marika basically told him to eliminate the hornsent, and it wasn't just a standard order... it was a secret banishment for him, and Marika's vengeance on the hornsent. That's right, Messmer was exiled so he could be a scapegoat for his mother in the Land of Shadow. While this doesn't absolve him of his crimes, it ultimately makes him extremely pitiable.

Number 2. Queen Marika The Eternal (Elden Ring) - A god, a vessel, a warmonger, a mother, a schemer, a monster, and a pitiful woman. These are all the things that Queen Marika The Eternal was, and by god she deserves to be remembered by all of them. Radagon is her other half. The Demigods were her children. Messmer is her son. The Lands Between were her lands. She destroyed several races. She destroyed the Elden ring. Everything in the game is connected to her in some capacity. This is some Sauron tier shit that's been done with someone who's now just a prisoner in her own fortress thanks to her fear of her reigns inevitable end. Elden Ring has a TON of antagonists, each one active in their own right across the Lands Between. Marika on the other hand is both a prisoner in her own home, and a god on her last knees who faces The Tarnished through Radagon, yet almost every last evil committed in the game is connected to her past history of cruelty and malevolence in service to her Golden Order.

Number 3. Malenia (Elden Ring) - Malenia was my fave for a good while, and is still one of my top 5 bosses in the series. Her background, how that background ties into the world, her difficulty not being too bullshit yet still giving veterans a good taste of the dirt, her simplistic yet effective character, and the concept of someone being that goddamn sickly yet still being so undeniably persistent, powerful, and near-invincible is intriguing and cool, and it's executed very well in her case. Her boss being optional is just icing on the cake. Overall she's a spectacle.

Number 4. Miquella (Elden Ring) - He's a charming lil guy. Yes he cut out everything that made himself a good person in order to become the god of a new era, and is an expert manipulator due to his powers, but he's still just a lil guy.

Number 5. Father Gascoigne (Bloodborne) - Originally, Laurence was my favorite Bloodborne character, but after some careful reconsideration... this guy is at the top. Why? I like how simplistic his lore is, but aside from that, he's basically a reflection of the Good Hunter and a really great first legit boss. He serves as a gatekeeper for new players, and his transformation from skilled hunter to a monstrous werewolf mid-fight is a perfect introduction to what fate usually awaits any hunter who inevitably gets blood drunk in Yharnam. And the cherry on top? He's just a guy. He was just a normal ass hunter with a wife and child before all of this, hell you could even use his daughter's music box to snap him out of his blood drunk state for a second. IMO Gascoigne is underrated as hell.

Number 6. Lady Maria (Bloodborne) - Between the Plain Doll being based off her, her connection to Gehrman, and being one of the hunters at the Fishing Hamlet, Maria is undeniably a great character with a vast presence.

Number 7. Ludwig (Bloodborne) - Tragic Hornse. In all seriousness though, Ludwig is a perfect summary of Bloodborne, and honestly one of the top 3 bosses in the entire series.

Number 8. Isshin Ashina (Sekiro) - Isshin's presence overshadows that of the main antagonist, Genechiro Ashina, and its entirely intentional. He basically is the symbol of his entire clan, leading a rebellion against the invading forces alongside many warriors and triumphing. Isshin was a living legend in the past, but in the present? He's old, sick, and on his last legs. He's still defending his clan, but for his strength, he's still mortal. He's still human. He's the perfect reflection of his clan. That and he’s an amazing final boss. Go Grandpa Ashina!

Number 9. Gwyn, Lord of Cinder (Dark Souls) - Horrible, HORRIBLE god. He ruined humanity, is a bad father, and is SO worthy of being hated... yet he's so pitiable and pathetic. Gwyn is responsible for almost every tragedy in the trilogy, yet even his own story is a tragedy. A paranoid god king making the literal worst decisions ever to the point where he literally destroys himself. There's a level of understandability with his character that makes him tragic, but ultimately, he's still a monster. And this isn't even bringing up the Soul of Cinder.

Number 10. Slave Knight Gael (Dark Souls) - An old slave knight from the age of fire, literal cannon fodder, not only outlives the gods, but goes on a quest to get the Dark Soul so that The Painter, his niece, would paint a new world. You get familiar with him in the Ashes of Ariandel DLC, and by the time of the Ringed City DLC you see that Gael has slipped into madness and stands atop literal desolation. At first he fights on all 3's, only using his sword as a weapon as he jumps and crawls around, but after his guts are cut open and he gets the power of the dark soul, he truly begins fighting like a man and will occasionally rely on the newfound power he has to strike the Ashen One down with magic. Still at the end of the day... this fight is just between two nobodies who outlived the gods.

[itstheendofthegoddamnworld]

Swallowed Whole by The Flame (Messmer the Impaler x Tarnished! Reader) 6

MASTERLIST

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Summary: Judgement awaits within the Shadow Keep.

A/N: The first part of the chapter will be in Messmer's POV, during the events of when he's thinking of what to do with you. Then, the second part, cuts to your arrival back at the Keep.

A03 link

-

Chapter 6: Judgement

Five days ago...

Messmer is used to the darkness, the curse he carries, waiting for a day for the pain to be lifted and for him to return to his mother.

Messmer broods in his throne room, with only winged serpents to calm his worries, whispering in tongues only he knows. He's conflicted, bemused by it all, but most of all, he's feeling betrayed. Years of trusting his mother, believing he is doing all of this in her name, serving her dutifully as any soldier and son would.

So, when some wretched creature enters his Keep, blessed by grace - his mother's grace - he thinks it's all some cruel joke.

He was ready to pluck the seal out of his eye, despite knowing it was Marika who placed it there for his safety. It pains him knowing he could've ended it all and released the base serpent out, only for not his mother to stop him, but you. You, Tarnished, a creature all should hate, and he's been taught to hate, is reluctant to hear your words.

Miquella? What did all of this have to do with him? 

You're an intriguing, annoying thing, slicing at him and giving him a mark, and he admits you're a good fight too, though sometimes sloppy, opting to fight dirty than fight him with no healing nor add-ons.

He's tempted to return it to you tenfold, to have his flames consume you as you scream. But where was the fun of having  to deal with you coming back to him, over and over again, pleading your case that he so desperately didn't want to hear. He heeds your words, your warnings of his undoing, and he listens, like the fool he is, he listens to the words from the enemy. Why he trusts you is uncertain, that you could already be hoping for his demise and he was accepting it all with some flimsy words from a Tarnished.

It's only that he captures you when he can finally think, though he curses that all you did to him, he will do tenfold. You're locked up, suffering and rotting, but he feels he is the one suffering. Burn her. Something tells him inside. Burn her and be rid of her.

He finds himself alone in the abyss, staring heavily in thought at the scar on his arm, running his nails along the raised skin as his other clawed hand grips the armrest too tightly, cracking in his grasp. He wishes that is what he can do to your skull, but he has restraint. Better to deal with a broken thing than one with their mind still intact.

It's by the third day of your imprisonment that he finally decides to leave the throne room. Dishevelled, lacking sleep and in need of a good bath and decent meal, his body aches from being sat on the throne for so long. Sleep can wait, he needs to be rid of this pain however fleeting it is. The muscles in his back ache with every step he takes, a debilitating pain that gets worse if he does not move around. He curses himself for worsening his physical health, but it matters not when he finally finds his way to a familiar physician.

Ser Aldwin is so focused on his books that he doesn't even notice the demi-god lumber through, only when he hears the faint hiss of one of his serpents does the Nightfolk abruptly stand to full height, bowing stiffly. "My lord. I did not hear you enter. Is there anything I can help with?"

Messmer does not answer, but it is obvious to Aldwin how clear his discomfort shows on his features. "Oh, my Lord. Please, take a seat. I shall ready the medication."

The redhead half collapses to the cot, comically half of the demigod's size as he's crouched rather than sitting comfortably on it, his eye falling downcast in shame. He was a soldier, shaped from youth in his mother's eye to be the very vessel for tyranny, and here he was, doubled over in agony, wishing for it all to be over.

Aldwin is quick, which Messmer silently thanks him for, and he helps by removing his helm and discarding it to his side. He next removes the amour and chest pieces until he is shirtless. He can feel the weight of the snakes coiled around him, putting weight on him as he tries to keep his suffering to himself. 

Gathering the oils on the table, Aldwin ushers Messmer to lie on his back, where the healer pours the warming oils into his hand, working them before he begins a deep tissue massage. The relief is almost blinding, and Messmer hisses from both relief and from how sore his muscles feel.  

"You are... unusually quiet, my Lord. May I ask what troubles you?"

"The Tarnished," he grunts, shutting his eye as he lets the warmth of the oils soothe him. His skin feels stiff, burning to the touch, but he continues, "I questioneth wheth'r I am being too lenient."

Aldwin hums in both thought and deep in his work, massaging around the areas where the snakes protrude out his skin, and it has Messmer wheezing. "The fate of the Tarnished seems to be on everyone's mind, my Lord. A difficult situation as to whether she speaks the truth or not."  

"Rather a thorn in mine side."

Aldwin chortles, in which Messmer casts a brief side eye to him before closing his good eye again. It's difficult to speak when all Messmer wishes to do is cry out.

He thinks about what his mother did, singing to him softly when he cried from the great discomfort. It was easier to control then, but the older he got, the more the serpent grew, twisting in size until it crushed his spine, putting pressure on his organs until the pain grew intensely. With his eye closed, he can still picture his mother's features, from her soft, caring golden eyes, to her flaxen-coloured hair, long and braided. She would tell him about the days of her youth, promising him one day they would go back to it. 

Messmer is thankful he is lying on his front, for he subtly wipes a stray tear away.

"Perhaps, my Lord, it would be best to seek a deal with the Tarnished. To see if she is worthy of your trust."

"Mine trust? How?"

"Send her away if you must," Aldwin says, "you have hundreds of eyes on the field, awaiting your very order. If they hear or even see of her return to Miquella and his followers, you know where to find her."

Messmer thinks hard, resting his chin in thought. "'Tis a valorous idea, Sir Aldwin," he murmurs, and correct he is. That is, however, if the Tarnished is truly lying, Messmer doesn't know if he has the strength to be enraged. A tired man, he's almost bored by it all. It would be some tiring game of cat and mouse, one which would not end until one grew bored. Worn from it all, all he wishes to do is sleep.

He sits up as Aldwin finishes off by applying more of the oils to Messmer's chest before bowing his head politely. "I shalt has't her sent to thee, Aldwin," Messmer answers finally, dressing once more as his loyal fire knights address his lord. "Ready the prisoner a visit."

"My Lord." Aldwin bids the redhead farewell as Messmer is crowned with a new purpose, to see if the Tarnished is worthy of his trust. When he visits her cell, he sees she is already awaiting him. She looks as dishevelled as he feels, almost ripped from sleep. When his knights send her off to Aldwin, she walks with some hesitation, wary of what he is doing. It pleases him, to some extent, that she feels unsure of him.

He leaves with his personal black knights back to his chambers, where he asks to have a bath readied. The ointments and bath oils are most handy, especially to dispel any further aches he has. But, the content he usually has in having a bath is wasted when his mind is brought back to the Tarnished, and he thinks whether it is all worth it. His serpents coil around him, their whispers help soothe him, and he leans his head against the tub, calming his mind to calm like ripples in the mightiest of seas.

When she is gone, he is restless, a heap of anger mixed with the endless paranoia that she has gone and done what he dreaded most. How long does it take to travel?! He questions, and his spies have their answers that help calm him. The last he hears is she has made just outside the ruins, having stopped someplace in the woods to sleep with her stead acting almost as her guard dog. 

He almost laughs at the motion, but that day passes, and more go past. There is no news of her for some time, and he mentally feels as if he may rip his seal out and hunt her down personally. His anger boils, his winged serpents twisting around his body matching his anger. It draws into something he vows he'll destroy, her body, her soul, her entire being, erased from ever existing.

It's only when his loyal warrior, Commander Gaius asks if he can personally be sent out to hunt down the Tarnished for her betrayal that something snaps in him. "The Tarnished is mine to deal with." He growls, and those of his spies and knights seem to still upon hearing his orders. 

His war meeting is cut short when a fellow spy enters the room, hastily rushing to Messmer before remembering the courtesy of bowing in respect. "My Lord, there has been a sighting of the Tarnished. She travels to the Keep."

There are mutterings among his men, some of disbelief, some muttering it a trap, but it is only Messmer's voice whose matters. "Let her through."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

There is an unbelievable coldness to the Keep when you enter through the main gate. There are only a handful of soldiers around who seem to be reluctant in your next moves. Dismounting from Torrent and clutching your side, you hobble your way through, escorted by his men who tell you Messmer awaits for you in his throne room. How odd that he wants you there rather than waiting for you outside the gate. Did they not receive news of your return?

Something churns in your chest, a sickness of nerves you cannot place, but you are silent as you pass the corridors, damp and endless. The Grace sits just outside his doors, begging you to reach for the golden strings of life. You wonder if anyone within the Keep can see it and if Messmer can too. You can feel its warming touch, but you're not close enough to fully heal, rather connect you to it so you don't wake at the previous grace if you die. All you can do is pass alongside it, entering through the doors to be welcomed coldly.

Messmer sits atop his throne, stoically staring down at you, his spear grasped in hand. It is not just him that awaits in the room, but many of his knights, all poised as if ready for you to make the wrong move. 

You stand in between them all, looking at every knight before your eyes land once again on the demi-god.

Finally, with difficult footing, you make your way slowly towards him. His knights hold a grasp on their unsheathed swords and spears, holding stances and waiting for you to make a move that could jeopardise all your hard work. The pain in your side worsens the further you walk, certain the wound has begun to bleed freely into your bandages once again.

Messmer watches you with a stony face before he speaks aloud. "Is't done?"

You wonder if he knows you're bleeding, elongating your suffering further as you somberly answer. "Yes," you inhale sharply as you rest a hand on your knee to help lower yourself to the ground, taking a knee, "my Lord."

The room is deafeningly quiet, so much so that you feel nauseous. You keep your head bowed, pride washing off you like sitting by the shoreline, awaiting the larger waves to sweep you away. You've come so far that you cannot take it back.

Your hands shakily move to your bag, still attached to your belt, unclipping it. The bag has soaked to a darker colour, some of the blood as dried yet still some soaks heavily into your already bloodied gloves. You grimace at the texture, before chucking the bag forward, it landing a couple of meters in front, causing a loud, squishy sound to echo when it thuds against the base of the throne.

Messmer seems to have something lifted inside him, his posture has straightened in his seat, looking more amused than uptight. He eyes the bag before he looks back down at you, a small smirk appearing on his face. Go on, his face reads as if he's awaiting more, more of this humiliation to please him further.

You sigh, hands reaching up to your helm, tugging upwards until the clatter smashes to the ground in a thud by your feet.

No one is speaking which makes things worse, and you wish to be swallowed up whole by the ground than face more of this. You eye him carefully, sweat beading down your forehead. The room feels as if it's spinning and with the seconds feeling like minutes or hours, is when Messmer finally does something.

He stands. Slowly and methodically walks down the stairs as he approaches you. Your heart races and the little amount of blood in your body rushes to your head as you look away from him, looking to the ground until he is right in front of you.

Strangely, something holds your chin, so tentatively that it's an odd feeling. Clawed fingers urge you to look up. Messmer has tilted your chin up so your eyes slowly drift onto his face. So close once more in front of you, you mutter loud enough for only him to hear. "I did what you asked of me, didn't I?"

"Thee didst," he coolly responds, his touch still lingers as he accesses you carefully, "the keep is yours to doth what thee prithee. Thee has't mine own protection and alliance."

Good. You can finally breathe from the moment you step into the room. Messmer pulls away from you, his touch lingers on your skin and you falter to almost stand. "I acquire your healer's aid... if I'm allowed?

He looks you over once more, one of his serpents is far too close to you, its thin tongue tasting the air as if it could sense something you could not. Before it could reach any closer, Messmer moves back, turning his hunched back towards you. "Doth as thee prithee."

What Messmer expects is to hear you leave, for him to finally feel some semblance of pride strengthen within him. Rather than that, he hears your fading footsteps abruptly stop, the sound of garbled choking echo through the large room. All heads turn, his including, to see just in time your weakened body materialise into nothing but dust, a pool of your blood soaking the ground.

-

A/N:

Messmer likely: omfg, did she just fucking die

Imagine Messmer's fear, anger and panic as to seeing you die right in front of him, readying his men to go through a hunt for you throughout the Keep and even the lands, only to see you've popped outside the front doors of his room. Though, if we're keeping to the game, you should pop up by the site of grace WAY outside, but I'll give some wishy-washy reasoning of "Marika was feeling nice and allowed you to pop up again at a site closer in the Keep."

All in all, I love the idea of Messmer slowly growing obsessed in trying to find you constantly. Call it hunting, but this man's paranoia is on high alert.

[warsofasoiaf]

Alright. I'll bite. What do you make of sad boi Vlad, sorry, I mean Messmer the Impaler?

When I first saw Messmer the Impaler in the trailer, there was some stuff that I figured out going in. He was a demigod, responsible for Marika's brutal purge in the Land of Shadow. A genocidal warlord waging a war so brutal that no one outside of it could ever be made aware of its existence. Given my experience with FromSoft games, I should perhaps have known better than to simply accept it all at face value. Messmer has been stated by Miyazaki as being one of GRRM's favorite characters that just couldn't find his way into the base game. What we get is brutal, as FromSoft loves to give.

Messmer is barely hinted at in the first game, an off-hand reference to a "forgotten son" which could have easily been applied to Mohg or Morgott, cast off into the Subterranean Shunning Grounds. The Impaler's Catacombs, and the bodies of giants on the Mountaintop, impaled as befits Messmer's sobriquet. His vibrant red hair suggests that he was a son to Radagon, and this has some issues with the timeline. He must have been in the Lands Between, and not the Lands of Shadow, after Radagon's marriage to Renalla in order to successfully have Rellana, the Twin Moon Knight and sister to Rennala, join his crusade. However, he is an "older brother" to Radahn, who was borne of Radagon's union with Rennala. That means Marika must have had Messmer either before her marriage to Godfrey and the position of Elden Lord (before she became a god) or she had taken Radagon as a lover while Godfrey was her consort making Messmer a bastard. Of these two, I actually like the second thematically, Messmer being shunted to do the cruel, unfortunate, unwanted task of destroying those without the grace of Gold in the Lands of Shadow.

As further proof that Radagon was Messmer's father, Messmer, like Malenia and Miquella, was born with a terrible curse. From birth, Messmer was afflicted with the Abyssal Serpent, a terrible, transcendent curse that Marika tried to cure in vain. First, she attempted to cure him with the Blessing of Marika, but it availed him not. Much as we see with Malenia and Miquella's curses, the power of Marika and/or Radagon is incapable of ending the afflictions inflicted upon the children of their divine self-cest by other Outer Gods. What Outer God afflicted the Abyssal Serpent, and what relation this serpent may have had, if any, to Rykard's blasphemous studies regarding the God-Devouring Serpent, is unknown. When that failed, Marika plucked out Messmer's eye and placed a seal of grace upon him, sealing the serpent away, a seal which holds until the Tarnished forces Messmer to unseal it during their boss fight. This is fascinating, because we do not see a similar seal of grace placed upon Malenia to seal away her rot or Miquella to restore his ability to age. Maybe the Abyssal Serpent is a wholly weaker curse that it could be sealed by the grace of gold. Maybe Marika permanently weakened herself with such a seal that she could not replicate the feat with her other cursed children. Whatever the case, we do know that whatever Messmer had to keep the serpent in check, it lasted until his death when he willingly surrendered it - it did not creep out of his body the way the Scarlet Rot leaked out of Malenia and infested the Haligtree.

At some point after the incorporation of Caria into the Golden Order, Marika charged Messmer with going into the Land of Shadow, to cleanse the land with flame. All those without the guidance of grace would perish by Messmer's flame. Messmer would serve as the focal point for the wrath of the Hornsent, and as death centered in the Lands of Shadow with the spectral gravestone piling higher and higher, it was Messmer who they cursed. Messmer would pursue this crusade with abject cruelty with an assortment of troops, commoners, nobles, from across the Golden Order's lands. Those who followed Messmer were of mixed loyalty - his Fire Knights were said to truly know him and his serpentine nature, while Black Knight Commander Andreas and his son Huw rebelled when they learned of the serpent within. Rellana was known to be absolutely loyal in her belief, as was Commander Gaius, both would rise to be Messmer's senior leaders, and swore away any rights and titles they would have in the Lands Between to pursue his crusade. And pursue it he did, breaking Belurat Tower Settlement and sealing away the Divine Gateway, impaling the Hornsents great Dancing Lions and destroying them as a people, now reduced to mere fringes and scattered survivors desperately hiding from Marika's crusade.

Messmer however, is not simply a cackling villain. Deep under the Shadow Keep, he tends to the wounded jars that the Hornsent brutalized, trying to give what comfort he can to Marika's people, tortured in the Bonny Village, butchered and melded into viscera to be made into saints for the Hornsents own attempts to create divinity on earth. When his men betrayed him, he gave them honorable burials, wanting to give regard to their intent both to come with him on the crusade and stick to his beliefs.

Marika's intentions were to seal Messmer away, to consign him to the Land of Shadow, fearful of the serpent that he carried within him. When Messmer marched to the Land of Shadow, it was a one-way trip. He would be forgotten by the Lands Between, cursed by the Land of Shadow, and he would receive no sense of recompense. Messmer burned inside just as he burned those with his flames, and yet, he was committed. Even as it continued with no end in sight, he continued to throw the Hornsent into the great Furnace Golems, continued to dispatch troops to wander the Land of Shadow and slay those without the grace of gold. His troops began to resent Marika, even in the Shadow Keep, statues of Marika are often decapitated as the people realize they're perpetually sentenced to stain their souls for eternity, a new twist on hell. The cruelty once given to Marika's people by the Hornsent is now visited back on them, forever, trapping everyone in a negative nexus from which neither body nor soul escapes.

Messmer as a boss is a tremendous presentation. From his first words, he sounds properly menacing - and yet your presence makes him wonder. Why does a Tarnished, bereft of grace and banished from the Lands Between, now come to take the mantle of Elden Lord? His moves are sinewy and flowing, like a snake. He looks lean, hungry, ever bit the sinister villain he was depicted in the trailer. He dances, jumps, and integrates his spear and flame spells artfully. He constantly puts pressure on the player, and his combos are fast but predictable. He can summon spears to impale you, and use the same flame spells that his Fire Knights used that kept pestering you as you climbed up the Specimen Storehouse, as well as a big one of his own creation.

When Messmer is wounded enough, he realizes that his own strength is insufficient, he apologizes to Marika, and tears out the seal of grace within his own eye, unleashing the Abyssal Serpent in his body. His new move set adds visually impressive serpents, such as the Orb of Messmer being in the abyssal serpent's mouth, and his dive engulfing him in serpents. His form changes as well, not just his empty eye socket. His legs change to look like serpent scales, he sheds his armor like a snake. The Hornsent, if he was summoned, exalts in the glory of Messmer's new form, as to the Crucible, the melding of life and the taking on of aspects of it was considered holy. The snakes not only make Messmer more intimidating, but they distract the player from dodging, incentivizing panic rolling and upping the pressure while decreasing Messmer's punish windows. It's a proper fight, start to finish.

When the Tarnished finally cuts him down, Messmer falls, cursing Marika for the things she compelled him to do. To become a figure of hatred due to the circumstances of his birth, to wage a war for Marika's glory that he could never share. To be separated from his siblings - Radahn who he regarded with fondness as a younger brother, and Melina who was also cursed with visions of fire (and possibly also inherited the Gloam-Eye from the previous Empreyean of the Godskin Apostles thus making them share in a curse contained within their eyes), and possibly others - after all, everyone seemed to love Godwyn the Golden.

Messmer: genocidal warlord and deeply wounded fighter. Commanded to be despised, he did the despicable to the despicable, and the genocide that defined Marika's life would in turn define Messmer's, until all that was left was a bitter shell wrapped around a curse, cut down by the Tarnished, cursing the mother that condemned him.

Thanks for the question, Mist.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[beesmygod]

alright, i dont know if this timeline/GAME THEORY works totally so im presenting it for peer review:

-marika, having been evidently driven to ascend to godhood to protect what remained of her people from the hornsent, plucks out and seals away the rune of death from the elden ring. she plans to suffer no more death or loss.

-this begins a cycle of stagnation the greater will struggles against. the process of removing the rune and mending its former location results in the creation of/transformation into radagon (as his ryne is present where the rune of death SHOULD be in the ring). its strange and complicated.

-radagon meets renalla, marries her, has kids. marika and godfrey are still together until things get scary. godfrey runs out of things to fight and kill, marika starts to resist the greater will. THIS BEGINS MARIKA'S GRAND GAMBIT

-marika, perhaps influenced by renalla and her kids who also question the greater will's influence, sends away godfrey and his men, now called tarnished, by removing their grace from their eyes and tells them to go, fight, and die in lands untouched by the greater will. eventually, when she needs to, she will return the guidance of grace to them and revive the dead. godfrey is no longer elden lord. radagon is recalled to serve as elden lord and leaves renalla utterly heartbroken.

-the greater will retaliates in a way directly designed to twist the knife. to restore the rune of death to the elden ring and end the stagnation, the greater will wants to targets marika's only publicly accepted son, godwyn the golden, to become the prince of death.

-however, ranni's meddling, due to her balking in horror at the idea of becoming a vassal of the greater will like marika and fury at what happened to her mother, results in godwyn's death totally getting fucked up and the new rune of death splitting in half, making it unusable. marika conspired to kill her son with ranni and provided her with the sliver of the rune of death used in his murder and the assassins. but its not clear how much of this was marika herself and how much was the greater will acting THROUGH marika.

-in a fit of grief at having lost what little of her family she had remaining and realizing the extent of her lack of agency, marika shatters the elden ring before the greater will crucifies her to a shard of it.

-whatever remains of marika returns the guidance of grace taken from the tarnished in the hopes that one of them will finally kill her and end the greater will's influence over the world and herself

-???

-profit

[powerbottomranmaru]

so the long zangetsu shin au inspired by long agito by @blood-ritual. here are some rough as fuck notes about that. none of it will make sense. i just gotta info dump it all somewhere before i go insane.

ryoma is somewhat of an inventor but mostly serves as a healer who conducts his experiments on people who need to be healed. because people are willing to let him test new herbs and medicines on them, he’s become the healer with the best success rate. he doesn’t live in any certain kingdom because he doesn’t want to submit to any one leader, he thinks he’s too good for that. he ends up taking in the generals of the opposing armies one night because they’re dying not far from his doorstep and he figures he might as well. they’re staying with him and they talk to each other and when they can actually walk out of his house they have a peace treaty drafted to take back to their kings.

takatora is zangetsu shin aka the god of war and the scariest motherfucker to piss off. he’s very intrigued in this human who managed to end a war by doing nothing more than refusing to let two people argue with each other while they were under his care. he takes his human form and goes to visit ryoma, injuring himself and claiming he’s a traveling merchant who got injured on his trip and wants nothing more than to be healed. while he’s there, he listens to ryoma talk about his aspirations and his dreams and he’s moved by this mortal who reaches for the stars. so he goes back to where the gods live in their enchanted forest-- the equivalent of helheim-- and calls to ryoma in his dreams.

ryoma is like “yeah okay” and packs his things and goes into the forest. essentially you can’t survive the forest unless one of the gods has called you to their side because their magical protection enables you to find the pathway to the castle. otherwise you’ll die of starvation or dehydration before long because the flora isn’t edible and there’s no drinking water. smarter humans have brought food and water with them but no one ever finds the castle through sheer will of force. humans that kaito kumon deems worthy of his service can live, but their only real option is to live in service to him.

kaito is overlord baron, the god of chaos and strength and power who protects the weak and oppressed. he watches over children abused by their families and uses his powers to punish parents who endanger their children. as a child he ran away from his abusive home and found himself lost in the forest. he would have died except mai takatsukasa, the goddess of the forest, took pity on him and cared for him. when he was older, she gave him a golden apple from her tree that gave him his godlike form and powers, and kaito uses that power to protect those who were in a bad place like he was.

mai has always been and always will be. her very spirit and being is tied to her shrine, which is the massive tree at the heart of the forest that spawns the golden apples when someone worthy of claiming them comes along. there used to be other gods and goddesses, but when most of them went bad in a mad grab for power, mai took up fighting and slayed them because she couldn’t have them wreaking havoc on the human world. her love of humans and her belief in them is what lead her to decide that she would preserve the powers of the former gods and goddesses and when humans who were worthy came along, she would grant them the power necessary.

she doesn’t live alone, either. rica and chucky are essentially forest nymphs who came from the tree and they live with mai and take care of her and help care for the tree. they serve as her messengers to the other gods and goddesses-- of whom she is the most powerful-- and they fiercely protect her because her powers are way stronger than anyone else’s are. she shows up in visions only to the humans deserving of godhood.

takatora was a warrior who fought endlessly for the king he followed and he was far more successful in war than anyone else was. he was in the midst of battle to protect a small village and when an enemy warrior went to kill a woman and her children, takatora intervened and nearly died in the process. as he laid dying, mai came to him in a vision and willed him to survive only if he would come to the forest and claim the power that was rightfully his. he was able to make his way to her tree, where she plucked a golden apple for him and gave him the powers of the god of war and the form of zangetsu shin.

yoko minato is marika, the goddess of nature, and she preserves the forest, cultivates the actual vegetables and fruit safe enough to eat, and her being is tied to the nature that humans encounter, as well. she and ryoma become fast friends because he realizes her herbs and plants have a lot of interesting properties and he offers to help care for them in exchange for having access to them. she has a human lover named touka akatsuki.

touka was an archer for the army who flew marika’s banner quite firmly even though most kings who care about that fly banners for zangetsu shin or baron (warlord and strength/power). she and her squadron of warriors were especially well-known for their strength as a unit, stronger than pretty much any group possible, and she made a name for herself because she’d viciously defend farmers who otherwise couldn’t fight for themselves. doing that caught yoko’s eye because it was clear to her that touka not only understood just how hard it was to take care of the land like that but she also had great respect for it and saw it worthy of being defended, so she drew her to her side.

sid is also here. sid is sigurd, the god of lies and trickery and deceipt and basically how to be shady. he was one of the best conmen living and by and large had no great attachment to anyone or anything, he just lived day to day and did what he had to do to get by. takatora and yoko were visiting the human world and talked to him a bit, and sid felt something off about them so he didn’t try to con them and instead warned them about some of the other conmen that live in the area. he also totally noticed a few shady people following them and decided he was going to intervene. sid pretty much believes solely in stealing from bad people since like, they deserve it. takatora and yoko didn’t.

long story short he ended up mortally wounded and mai reached out to him and told takatora and yoko to bring him into the forest. sigurd is on every charm and token that thieves and conmen keep on their persons almost religiously, though sid is in the human world far more often than people would think. he likes to see how modern day humanity is working out.

oren is bravo, obviously, and though he was also a famed warrior who could have become the god of war, he ended up becoming the god of family relationships when he put his life on the line to protect jonouchi, whom he’d always seen like a surrogate son since jonouchi’s father treated him like shit for not being the man he wanted him to be. mai was touched and invited them both to come live at the castle, jonouchi gaining immortality in the process, but oren is the only two of them to be a god. he and baron get along quite a bit when it comes to punishing fathers who don’t deserve to have children.

lastly micchi is the god of death, ryugen yomi. he was always too weak and sick to fight so he stayed behind and did his best to tend to the bodies of the dead, giving them proper burials and leaving flowers over their graves. he and his father had a very terrible relationship because micchi was never who he was supposed to be and his father punished him for it liberally. micchi just snaps one day and fights back and he accidentally kills him in the process, and of course the soldiers try to chase him down because that’s a crime no matter what was happening to him. he ran into the forest to try to get away and mai felt his presence and felt the heavy aura of death around him, so she offered him a golden apple. he resides over death and the peaceful passage between this life and the next, the peace that comes from long illness and painful wounds.

oren’s human lover is bando because bando spent most of his life tending a fruit stand and a pub and he was like a shoulder for every kid who had a bad home life and he caused some pretty heavy strife in his village because he got between ryoji hase and his parents because hase wanted something different for himself and his parents didn’t agree. oren ended up inviting both bando and hase to come stay with him, and he and bando fell for each other very quickly. it was doubly good because hase and jonouochi adore each other.

kaito has several humans who live at his castle, which is separate from the bigger one. shura was his first, a person kaito called to because he stood up for his friends and fought someone who tried to hurt them. shura no longer lives there because the two of them are both too different and too similar to get along, so shura decided he was going to travel. kaito was worried for his safety and he went to mai, and she created a lock for shura to wear on a chain around his neck born from her tree. when he steps into battle, kaito’s protection gives him armor that nothing can break through. he uses this to fight various monsters. sometimes he sends kaito presents.

zack came into the forest looking for someone, anyone, who would help peko when no healers could save him from a deadly infection. he stubbornly survived for a week and kaito, impressed at his strength and skill, came to him and offered him a place in his service. zack agreed on the condition that peko could be saved, so kaito took one of marika’s fruits and healed him and brought him to his castle too. zack likes to explore the forest, which is how he found the other castle that stands away from the rest-- ryugen yomi’s.

micchi isn’t exactly a talkative person, he doesn’t really spend time with the others, so zack finding him is a surprise to him. zack comes to visit him and they talk a lot. sometimes he brings peko with him, it just depends. peko used to be a dancer who taught zack how to dance and decided to stay with him instead of travel anymore, and they teach kaito how to dance.

shapool also lives there. he was the son of a noble who adopted him to have an heir and then who tried to have him killed when he had a biological son. shapool was dying but not dead yet and kaito came out of the forest and saved him and then brought him into it to keep him safe and keep him nearby. shapool adores kaito far more than any of his other humans and the two of them are like brothers. shapool also explores the forest a lot because he loves meeting the animals, and mai loves having him come to visit her.

yuya stumbled into the forest with rat by accident, the two of them on the run from thieves, and they both nearly died. yuya’s survival skills kept them alive long enough to impress kaito, who came to collect them to come tend his home and serve him. they both actually really like him despite the fact he scared them at first and both of them would defend him viciously if given the chance.

kouta comes into the forest looking for ryoma when his sister gets sick and no one else can help her. he heard that ryoma walked in and never came out and even though he knows he has no hope of finding him, he has to try. kaito plans on letting him die as most humans do, but kouta’s dumb perseverance intrigues him so he comes to him and asks him what he’s doing in the forest. kouta tells him his sister is dying and kaito offers to save her assuming both of them would be willing to come into the forest. akira gets to stay with marika when ryoma is finished taking care of her, and kouta comes to baron’s castle.

kouta likes it there, actually. he loves spending time with shapool, who is boundless energy and excitement and joy. he likes hanging out with yuya and rat, who are both easy to get along with kinda guys who are more than willing to show him around and help him figure out how to do his work. he likes peko and zack, who are levels above him and yuya and rat but who never act like it. he begs them to teach him how to dance because he was learning how before he came here and he wants to finish those lessons up.

he’s also the one who starts asking about shura when zack mentions him once or twice in conversation, but kaito is quiet on the subject. kouta finally ends up going to mai about it, which is kinda hard because rica and chucky don’t just let anyone near their goddess girlfriend. kouta swears on his life that he only wants to know what happened and mai tells him about how kaito and shura argued so much that shura decided to leave and how mai gave him special armor that would arise from kaito’s love and protective feelings over him to keep him safe no matter where he was. and he starts pushing for kaito to bring shura home.

kugai kudo is the healer who takes over for ryoma, but unlike ryoma he’s also a warrior who basically turned his back on his kingdom in order to take up ryoma’s work and help people. sid becomes interested in him when he sees someone has taken up residence in ryoma’s old house and he drops by to visit him, saying he isn’t sick or anything, just he’s heard some rumors and is curious. kugai humors him and tells him what he wants to know and sid drops by every now and then to say hi. but of course that betrayal isn’t going to stand for long and kugai eventually has people come after him for betraying his kingdom. sid ends up saving him and bringing him into the forest.

there are also some evil gods from another faraway kingdom who try to invade and kill and takeover but they aren’t important yet.

[epicfroggz]

While i agree with you that it's very likely the abyssal serpent isn't an outer god and more of an eldrich parasite, you don't see other outer gods being obsessed with consuming and destroying the demigods they cursed. Most of them feel they're just forces of nature like the rot & the frenzied flame etc.. while the Abyssal serpent show some "wickedbess" and hatred towards Messmer it will do anything to destroy him .so you think that they're similar to Radagon/Marika? I think the white blind serpent is messmer while the red one he summoned which has red eyes and multiple eyes on its body is the serpent of the abyss, so they're kinda still different entities? While i think the abyssal serpent being Messmer is confusing but i appreciate your analysis, because it's far more interesting than the serpent being a new outer god.

Hi, thanks for the ask! I will attempt to clear it up!

I do not believe the Abyssal Serpent is attempting to consume or destroy Messmer, at least not intentionally. As is the theme of the DLC, perspective must be considered—the serpent is malevolent, but to who?

(long post under cut!)

The Abyssal Serpent is not stated to be harming Messmer, as far as I can tell. The only potential harm it could be doing is eating away at his kindling, but it is his flame that is the curse: “Messmer despised his own fire. Time and time again he hoped to rid himself of it, but ever did it burn” (Messmer’s Orb). So, it can be said the serpent is eating at the kindling instinctually and/or in an attempt to help snuff it out. Messmer explicitly has tried to get rid of his flame, but has not tried to get rid of the serpent—instead, he accepts it:

“The winged snakes were Messmer's constant companions. They were there when the base serpent was sealed away behind his eye. They were there through his eternity of suffering. They will accompany him yet, in his hideous new form born when he destroyed the grace granted by his mother. They have accepted his fate as much as he.” (Messmer’s Helm)

We’ll get back to the winged serpents in a moment, but note the timeline here: it first states the base serpent was sealed, THEN Messmer went through an eternity of suffering, THEN he removed the seal and was reborn anew. It might be hideous, but it’s his, not something his mother or anyone else has done to him. Thus, the serpent’s malevolence must have been directed at outside forces. Marika does not often directly interfere with something or someone unless it could bring personal harm to her or the Erdtree—such as when she personally slew the Fell God. Yet, she plucked out her own son’s eye and put in place the seal to contain the Abyssal Serpent, despite the consequences this may have for Messmer. The serpent was that much of a threat to her, hence why I believe it is the “traitor to the Erdtree” that was foretold. It was not even the flame part that concerned her, but the serpent’s great powers of Shadow, like I explained in the last posts.

(The whole sealing ordeal has an air of “I’m doing this for your own good” which I’m certain Messmer wholeheartedly believed. Being called an accursed traitor your whole life just for existing must’ve sucked so, yeah, seal away. I’ll go blind for you, Mother; I’ll take the blame for you, Mother; I’ll do anything you ask of me, Mother—and yet, she still didn’t trust him enough to not remove it one day, and left him abandoned in the Land of Shadow. If she had just loved him as he was instead…)

On the subject of the winged serpents—I believe you are confusing them a bit there. The winged serpents are a separate entity from Messmer and the Abyssal Serpent. Messmer himself is a black serpent with red eyes all over its body, while the winged serpents are red with green eyes; Messmer is blind, the winged serpents are not. The winged serpents only appear white in phase 2 because they are shedding, though under the shed texture you can see they are still red.

They are called “wise friends” and “constant companions”, lending to the winged serpents being separate entities from Messmer, and this can also be seen in their design. They don’t grow out of him in a seamless or natural way, instead seeming as though they’re impaled through him, and Messmer and the Abyssal Serpent do not share design traits with the winged serpents like they share traits with each other. The winged serpents are the natural wardens of the Abyssal Serpent, stated to “keep the base serpent at bay and hold its power in check” (Winged Serpent Helm). This says to me they have been performing this task since before the seal, otherwise there would be no need for them. Consider also that for all its malevolence, the Abyssal Serpent did not cause any catastrophes in particular, else we would have heard about it. It was only prophesied to. Between the winged serpents and Messmer’s own compassionate self, the serpent’s lust for destruction was not acted upon (or was channeled to fulfill his mother’s wishes instead). If I may indulge Freud for a moment, Messmer was balanced—the Abyssal Serpent was the instinctual id, the winged serpents the logical superego, and Messmer the mediating ego between them. Something about the winged serpents being specifically “wise” makes me think of that, like they are Messmer’s personal advisors. His equals, and revered as the symbol of his army.

I say all this in efforts to explain that Messmer was whole, and will be whole again. That his serpentine nature was despised was a matter of public opinion, of what was writ in the Golden Order, of what he asked everyone to do—“Direct thy maledictions, thine ire, and thy grief towards me alone” (Messmer’s Set). The serpent within may be a scary and lightless and hideous monster, but he accepts that. He is what he is. When he removes the seal, the only thing that changes is that he has disappointed his mother; he is still just as lucid as he was before. He is still Messmer.

“Embrace thine oblivion, as shall I.”

- Froggo

P.S. I may have downplayed in this post how the Abyssal Serpent is inherently destructive and painful to Messmer, and like, brooding a hundred snakes inside him (more on that later), but what I’m getting at is that this is a natural thing he was born with, while the seal was an unnatural thing that was done to him. The serpent is a disorder that does not wholly define him but is still a part of him, while the seal was an improper cure that only repressed his self. Marika often hides away that which she does not want to deal with—out of sight, out of mind, as they say…

[epicfroggz]

"keeping company with the original sin, and a hatred that would not be confined" can you please share your interpretation of this sentence? I've been thinking alot of what the original sin and unconfined hatred mean but i couldn't find any explanation in the lore.

Yes, thank you for the ask! I have been trying to parse the meaning of this too. Firstly, what the “original sin” refers to, and secondly, what this “hatred that would not be confined” is about. Let’s break it down together!

(under the cut!)

“A malevolent snake writhed within Messmer, and so his very mother plucked out his eye and put in its place a seal of grace. Yet, having done so, her fear compelled her to secret away her child within the realm of shadow. Hidden away—keeping company with the original sin, and a hatred that would not be confined.” (Remembrance of the Impaler)

There is one other mention of “the original sin” that helps define it:

“Miquella set off for the tower enshrouded by shadow, abandoning everything—his golden flesh, his blinding strength, even his fate. All in an effort to bury the original sin. To embrace the whole of it, and be reborn as a new god.” (Miquella’s Great Rune)

With just the first item description, one may be inclined to believe the original sin is the Hornsent’s rituals against the shamans and Messmer’s hatred is simply hatred against the Hornsent for this act. But, this is only part of the truth. The other part is revealed by the second description, the very thing that Miquella is trying to bury: love. How it was not out of compassion or a desire to make the world a better place that Marika ascended to godhood, it was out of love and desire for revenge first and foremost.

The original sin is not what the Hornsent did—the original sin is Marika’s response to it.

This recontextualizes the description of Messmer’s remembrance a bit. He is “keeping company with the original sin” because this truth is only found within the veiled Land of Shadow, as Miquella had to go there to learn of it. Messmer is the keeper of this truth, for he defends Marika’s village and has hoarded the knowledge of it in his Keep. He knows firsthand that Marika is flawed. While this does not alter his love for her as his mother, it may have affected his faith in her as his god.

Consider the way this item description is written:

Prior to being “hidden away” in the LoS, Messmer had no reason to doubt his mother and her actions, for Mother must know best. But with time and separation, this perception wavers—without her company, all he has left is the pain within and around him. He realizes that it was not because it was best for him or because of some greater plan that she abandoned him here: it was solely out of fear. That is when the seeds of hatred are sown, grow, and ultimately, would not be confined (the transformation into the base serpent representing the release of this hatred). Hatred for Marika, who he curses upon defeat.

The word choice of “secreting” and “hiding” Messmer away, and how Marika does this after and despite mutilating him to implant the seal of grace, paints a rather negative impression of her perception of her son. As though his mere existence was something incredibly shameful that she had to hide from everyone. She used to make physicks for him, but stopped. Why? Because eventually her goals as a god overtook her love as a mother, and the Order ordained her to be afraid of snakes and flame. Likewise, it was to the benefit of her reputation to hide the truth of the original sin; sealing the LoS was like killing two birds with one stone.

It could be read as though Marika’s fear is fear that her son won’t be accepted even with the seal, and that she hid him away to protect him—this is a fair interpretation of her actions, but it certainly isn’t what Messmer thinks. Her attempt to implant grace into him wouldn’t have inevitably failed if he believed in her without question. Whether or not she did it to protect him, it was her act of abandoning of him that led him to break the seal, and we Tarnished were just the catalyst.

If you look at it that way, every time Marika tried to help Messmer, she ended up ruining him further.

-Froggo

P.S. This isn’t related but, the seal really is the only source of grace he has, for he loses his holy resistance in phase 2. And that fact just kinda destroys me on the inside.