#madam yu is an abuser

[jcs-singular-slut-strand]

This picture goes so hard bro

[mxtxfanatic]

@grawlixinterrobang I say this as kindly as possible, but I think you may be projecting onto this post.

Jiang YanLi was kneeling in the ancestral hall. She cleaned her parents’ memorial tablets as she whispered. Wei WuXian poked his head inside, “Shijie? Talking to Uncle Jiang and Madam Yu again?”

Jiang YanLi’s voice was soft, “Neither of you come, so of course I have to.”

—Chapt. 71: Departure, exr

It’s understandable why Wei Wuxian wouldn’t go, taking into account his feelings of debt towards the couple, and why it would be justified even without that feeling on debt on account of the couple’s treatment of him in life, but what excuse does Jiang Cheng have for not going? This is the man that supposedly has so much respect for his deceased parents that he “had” to fight right in front of their memorial tablets to defend them from…two queer men?

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

The real girlbosses of mdzs are Wen Qing, Luo qingyang(mian mian), A-qing, Jiang yanli and Cangse Sanren NOT madame yu.

[yingandzhan]

You know, one thing that boggles my mind is how some in the fandom can dispute that Yu-furen "didn't whip WWX", "only whipped him that one time in the novel and once in the extras" and my absolute favourite response... "WWX said she never hit him".

All of which are the most ludicrous statements I've heard since Trump won the election...

Obviously YZY hit and abused WWX throughout his life. Not only do we see her doing so, but we are given a vivid description of his back in the extras and it's covered in old scars alongside the new ones she has just given him for no good reason. Before anyone cries "but it's propriety, he was half naked in front of a young woman!" and all the other crap I've seen people spout, he's not the only one with a bare chest... Yet she specifically blamed and targeted him. Your precious "tiger mom" YZY was being unreasonable and you god damn well known it!

Anyway, regardless of whether you believe WWXs obvious lie to save face and cope with the trauma (just like JL does when he denies JC hits him and we clearly SEE otherwise) there is an actual line in the novel, from the narrator, not WWX... that spells it out for readers in black and white!

...and Jiang Fengmian’s wife Yu Ziyuan had never spoken well of them to him— honestly, things had been pretty good if she didn’t WHIP HIM or tell him to scram, or kneel in the ancestral hall, or stay away from Jiang Cheng.

- Vol 1. 7S, which is my least favourite translation because I really do feel the translator actively tries to play the abuse down.

Jiang Fengmian’s wife, Yu Ziyuan, never had a decent conversation with him. He would be fortunate if she didn’t GIVE HIM A FEW LASHES, or banish him to kneel at the ancestral hall so that he would keep his distance from Jiang Cheng.

- Chapter 29, Taming Wangxian

...Jiang Fengmian’s wife, Yu Ziyuan, had never been interested in having a conversation with him at all. If she didn’t WHIP HIM A FEW TIMES and tell him to get out, kneel at the ancestral shrine, and keep far away from Jiang Cheng, he already considered that pretty good

- Chapter 29, Fanyiyi

...Yu ZiYuan never spoke properly to Wei WuXian at all. It was lucky for him if she didn’t GIVE HIM A FEW WHIPS and send him to kneel in the ancestral hall so that he’d keep his distance from Jiang Cheng.

- Chapter 29, ExR

It's in...Every. Single. Translation. So there's no excuse if you're talking about the novel or tagging things as MDZS or Mo Dao Zu Shi. It's right there for everyone to see. WWX deemed it a good day if he wasn't whipped! Which would have been the days YZY was off night-hunting and nowhere near Lotus Pier.

Thankfully YZY being away from the clan residence seems to be the case more often than not. But those days she was there... It was a likely scenario WWX was going to be "punished" (for absolutely nothing) in some way or form and judging by the scars he had across his back, she very much liked to hit him with her spiritual weapon.

[lecinea]

Listen, both Yu Ziyuan and Jiang Fengmian were shitty parents that fucked their kids (& wwx) up in various different ways. But I will forever be more sympathetic to a frustrated woman in a patriarchal society stuck in a toxic marriage than to the man who has power and authority to change something but refuses to do it because he doesn't like conflict and pretends like nothing is wrong.

[mifeng-xiaojie]

I will die on the hill that the Jiang Cheng antis who blame Jiang Cheng for never protecting Wei Wuxian from Yu Furen need to stay away from people who have to deal with trauma from childhood abuse.

It does happen that abusive parents will pick one child to single out. The children witnessing their sibling being abused are also being psychologically abused, especially if the parent is verbally abusive to the other children, which Yu Furen was. Saying that Jiang Cheng should’ve protected Wei Wuxian from his mother is disgusting. It was not Jiang Cheng’s job as an actual child to protect another child from an adult. It was Jiang Fengmian’s job, especially because he is the one to bring that child into the situation.

I won’t even go into how it’s likely that no one saw the treatment as abuse since the entire society used corporal punishment for discipline. Antis want to call it all abuse, so let’s call it that.

It is not the job of abused children to protect other abused children, even if one child is getting it worse.

The fact that antis keep saying a 16 year old boy should’ve taken on that burden just because they want to dunk on a character they hate is frankly disgusting.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I advise everyone to take this with a million grains of salt, but I think part of this whole "all chinese/asians parent like jc and yzy" maaaaaay have something to do with the book "battle hymn of the tiger mother" that came out in like? 2010 maybe? but as an asian diaspora myself I definitely saw/heard people around me going yeah, I'm sure those kids were upset with their mother's methods, but she sure got results, didn't she? This attitude existed before long then but the book and its reception kind of cast the Asian parent who hurts their child in some way to make them perform in a more sympathetic light, until it became both "the parent who is willing to cause pain is a good parent" and "we're too good and nicer to you than you deserve, since even better children than you need this kind of harsh treatment in order to do well."

The harsher parents were, the more respect they seemed to get from other adults in their community because they were willing to do "what it takes," and I think many young people from that generation (again, this was in no way unique, these attitudes have been around forever) internalized that until they couldn't identify abuse that came wrapped in a package with "I'm doing this for your own good" stamped on top.

No you are right as this was greatly pressed into the main stream (and specifically Asian diaspora American/Western side in the 2010's).

Yet ironically, this caused an actual widespread awareness within East Asian countries about the negative affects of this being downplayed and it correlating to high suicide rates for minors, internalization of depression, anxiety, and how this psychologically affects them as adults for the worse. Worth noting is that many medias that feature this now, do not show the parent in a positive or sympathetic fashion since at least 2015 in East Asian (not diaspora American/Western mind) communities.

There is still a very idealized and rose-colored portrayal of this parenting in American Diaspora spaces. And one that I definitely refuse to give benefit to.

[thegreatgremlingang]

the thing i hate the most is some people shoving wei wuxian's feet into the ill-fitting shoes of harry potter and forget (sometimes deliberately) that the Jiangs are far, far, far from the dursleys

[jiangfamilytherapist]

All reader reactions to character interactions are colored by said reader’s life experiences, but to me it seems this is especially the case with parent/child dynamics. For this reason, I believe There Are A Lot Of Valid Takes on YZY and JFM’s parenting, and all of them have to do with lived experience— you don’t need to have had an abusive/neglectful etc. parent/guardian for your own familial frame of reference to become an interpretive lens, whether through comparison or contrast. We all do it.

So here’s what I see:

It takes two to tango, sure, but I can’t pretend that I see Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian as equal agents in the dynamic that emotionally scars their children. That is to say JFM’s Neglect ≠ YZY’s Abuse. And actually, I think terminology is important here, because truly JFM is not neglectful, he is emotionally unavailable, specifically to Jiang Cheng. JFM does in fact ensure that all of JC’s needs are met or exceeded, minus emotional connection. This is not me absolving JFM; emotional distance and feelings of inadequacy learned from parents can fuck with mental health, but in my view JFM is mainly at fault for being a bystander where he should have been a protector. He fails both boys in this. This is a common occurrence where one parent is abusive, and is part of the broader cycle of abuse. It’s not a simple thing.

As for the emotional distance, I don’t think Madam Yu helps. Maybe JC reminds JFM of his mom a little bit (and it’s worth mentioning that JFM doesn’t actually hate YZY by all indications) but it seems pretty dang evident that the bigger problem is her constantly shoving JC in front of JFM and being like WHY DO YOU LOVE YOUR SON LESS… I feel like that would potentially strain any attempt at father/son bonding. It can’t just be JC who hears those words echoing in his skull. Even if it isn’t true, the accusation’s out there and that is awkward to get past at best, not to mention requiring more emotional intelligence than either father or son possesses. It’s a hurdle they’d both struggle to clear.

Honestly, if I had to guess why JFM is better at dealing with WWX (which I find a little funny since at that age most people would find WWX to be way harder to deal with than JC), I’d say that WWX’s constant cheerful masking means that JFM doesn’t have to deal with all those icky complicated negative emotions with him. From a disciplinary standpoint, WWX is definitely the problem child, but again the masking means that from an emotional standpoint he is the “easier” child to deal with, because at that time of his life he hadn’t really let his mental or emotional health be anyone else’s problem since he was little.

I don’t have data to back this hunch, but I think all parents give their kids at least some issues unintentionally. There are also parents whose behavior is overtly damaging to their kids’ present and future wellbeing, like Madam Yu, and there are also parents who hurt their kids—inadvertently—by omission or inaction. This is all to say that I don’t personally think that the accusation that JFM didn’t love JC, or that he loved him less, is really in evidence (especially as portrayed in The Untamed). Nothing I see indicates to me that he is actually disdainful or apathetic towards JC, but the shortcomings in his parenting really did deeply hurt Jiang Cheng, and I find that hurt to be wholly understandable.

[lancabbage]

Some idiots claiming YZYs abusive actions were justified because of the historical and cultural setting of MDZS... Because I used this very argument against one of their little friends and their claims WWX's revenge and JGYs are similar, and if WWX could be "excused" so could JGYs.

Firstly, there's a fine line between discipline and unnecessary cruelty. What YZY does crosses that line unequivocally. She does this not only physically, but mentally. She wears him down with lashing of both vicious tongue and cracking whip. Yes, discipline is very much part of that era, but singling out one child specifically and beating them for reasons that are far from punishable is abuse no matter what. Let's not forget WWXs back was covered in scares, both new and old. These are marks from a high-class spiritual weapon! This is not an official method used for disciplinary purposes.

And the major thing here is, it's not JUST the setting that shows us how the MDZS universe works, but MXTXs worldbuilding and the examples of what is expected culturally in her fiction. The Yi City arc shows us how revenge works in her universe - similar to the era. She also shows us what is acceptable punishment and how such things are carried out in the Cloud Recesses arc - again, somewhat similar to the era. These are shown to the reader so we understand the clear boundaries world and the rules MXTX has set in place in her fic.

It really is all there in black and white if you'd just actually read 🤣

[tea-cat-arts]

"Madam Yu would be a Karen/ treat minimum wage employees like shit-" literally the only servant she's shown abusing is Wei Wuxian (and that's because he's the victim of a proxy war between her and Jiang Fengmian around the idea of him being adopted into the family, not because of his class). Madam Yu's two handmaid's love and respect her, and Madam Yu actually defends them when Wang Lingjiao tries being a Karen to them. She also tells Wang Lingjiao to fuck off when she demands the Jiang servants bring her tea.

Also, Karens are unpleasant women, but not all unpleasant women are Karens. That term is about entitlement and being unreasonable (and often times, racist). Madam Yu is mean and unpleasant to talk to, but she keeps most of her interactions brief and probably doesn't have the time or mental energy to be a Karen or hold a grudge that long. If you want an actual example of a Karen in mdzs, Wang Lingjiao is right there

[liziocit]

If Wei Wuxian's parents were still alive, you can bet that he wouldn't have to hide scars that came from zidian, he wouldnt have to smile away his pain because that was the only way to get throught, he wouldn't have to listen to people speaking ill of his parents and he probably wouldnt have felt that he needed to give up his golden core either.

He would have probably had scars that came from tripping or falling like all children do, he wouldnt hide them either. He'd just smile and recount the story with joy. If he felt pain, he would go to his parents and they would comfort him with warmth and reassurance that they were there for him. And he would only hear laughter and loving words from his parents, because they would never need to tell him harsh, unforgiving words.

[mxtxfanatic]

With the way folks carry on about Jiang Fengmian, you would think he killed Jiang Cheng’s dogs in front of him, or berated him constantly like Madam Yu does, or beat him like Jiang Cheng does to Jin Ling. Something to justify acting like he’s worse than the other two aforementioned actually terrible parents.

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

Never trust a person who defends madame yu or think she was in any ways the victim in the situation and not the abuser, no people she isn't the girlboss milf you want her to be, she is just a narcissist bitter woman who is perpetually jealous, entitled and a classist.

[bambooswordwielder]

I love Jiang Yanli. Anyone who hates her just doesn't understand her character 😤

Jiang Yanli is a child who was forced to act like an adult when the adults in her life failed to provide a nurturing environment for their children. Anyone who says she should've stopped Madam Yu forgot 3 things. 1) Madam Yu is an adult and Jiang Yanli is a child.

2) Madam Yu is Jiang Yanli's mother, and anyone who has really strict parents can understand that trying to stand up against them is a very VERY scary thing, especially if you're still a child,

3) Madam Yu is someone who still is strict on her children. She doesn't have a 180° personality change when she deals with them, she yells at them and threatens to punish them too if they try to interfere with her punishing WWX. The best thing Jiang Yanli can do in those situations is try to defuse/mediate them or by distracting Madam Yu long enough that WWX can long off and wait for Madam Yu to calm down.

People keep forgetting that Jiang Yanli is at most like 2-3 or at MOST 4 years older than JC and WWX. She isn't a full grown adult when Madam Yu starts mistreating WWX, yet so many people I've seen have 'adultified' her during discussions around Madam Yu's abuse of WWX.

Jiang Yanli is also a woman in a Society which is heavily discriminatory on people's birth status (Eg: WWX being called the child of a servant as an insult at various points, JGY being belittled for his mum being a prostitute, Luo Qingyang (Mian Mian) having her defending WWX being portrayed as "A woman who has stupid feelings and isn't thinking straight because she's clearly in love with him").

Jiang Yanli didn't have a strong Golden Core like Madam Yu, nor was she was revolutionary once-in-a-generation genius like Wen Qing or Wei Wuxian, nor could she leave the Sect and live as a Rogue Cultivator like Mian Mian, but she was person who cared deeply for her family/loved ones and always was there to provide support.

For people who critique her for pushing WWX and getting stabbed instead, causing JC to get mad at WWX for 'killing her' and causing Jin Ling to become an orphan, we literally see through Jiang Yanli's actions that she always wants to keep her little brothers safe. Even in her finals moments, the only thing Jiang Yanli wanted to do was protect her little brothers, so of course the only going through her mind when she sees someone trying to stab WWX is to push him. She just wants to keep her brothers safe like she always has. Even after WWX accidently caused the death of Jin Zixuan (we all know it's Jin Zixun's fault), she still cares deeply for him and wants to keep him safe.

I have so many thoughts that I can't add here (Especially on Madam Yu's character) but that's for another day.

In conclusion: Live, Laugh, Love Jiang Yanli.

(The rant above was caused by a five hour nap that was interrupted and I had to write this, then saved it to my drafts, before finally posting it after eating an entire bag of cheap chocolate)

[friedwizardwhispers]

Me,before reading mdzs: woah there are a lot of of hualian fanfic adopting Wei Wuxian, I wonder why ?

Me, now, in the middle of mdzs: Oh....

Everything makes so much sense now.