#m9 meta

[gennianydots]

I lovd the idea of a m9 atla au, and cabbage seller Veth is galaxy brained, and also i see your earth kingdom Caduceus, and I raise you swamp bender Cadueces?

Okay, ummm Yes.

Swamp bender Cad? Love that for him. Using the “decay and life is sacred and all around us” ideals in a swamp? That’s really kinda perfect for him. Which makes him technically a water bender…

Another thought: former fire nation soldier Caleb secretly surrounding himself with as many water benders as he can (Jester, Caduceus, Beau - maybe - the blue she wears is also very water tribe-ish) so he has damage control if/when he lights shit on fire because he hates his fire-bending (like Jeong Jeong, who says it only brings destruction) due to his (very traumatic) backstory hurting innocents for the fire lord during the war…

🫶🏻

[essektheylyss]

Okay but you know what's really clever about the choice to include off-screen campaign content in the Nein animated show, is that it puts the audience on far more equal footing.

There's a lot of intrigue going on in Wildemount behind the scenes, and those of us who've seen the campaign have an idea of what that is, but rarely a clear answer. There are a lot of interpersonal dynamics that we don't see but that make a major impact on outcomes for the character: not only Essek's dealings with the Assembly but his relationship to the rest of the Dynasty's upper echelon, the Assemblies' interactions amongst themselves, Astrid and Eadwulf's dynamic with Trent or other scourgers, or Lucien's relationship with Cree and the other Tomb Takers. These alliances make or break the characters' decisions with regard to the Nein depending on how much loyalty or trust they share, and they shift a lot while the Nein aren't present.

I think there's a bit of this in tlovm with the happenings in Whitestone and the dynamic among the Chroma Conclave, but these exist primarily to ground the antagonists, because it's not the same kind of story; Vox Machina's story is about how they become Big Damn Heroes. There is political action happening, but while it does have an influence on them, it always exists to an extent to be either a boon or an obstacle to them, because it cannot deal with the threats at hand without heroes (not necessarily Vox, but in the archetypal sense). The Nein, in contrast, are in a story about being the tangential players to numerous plots of intrigue that occupy no small position of power in the world, plots that in fact actively resist the role of heroes, and the struggle for personal agency that comes with that.

So giving more information to the audience about those other happenings means new fans get a lot of the information that existing fans will go into the show with much sooner, while existing fans are receiving new information at the same time. By the time the characters find out what the audience knows, the audience is more or less on the same page waiting for that shoe to drop.

[pocketgalaxies]

beau and caleb butting heads so bad about what to do with essek...oof!

[the-kaedageist]

The first Xhorhas episode of campaign 2 is fascinating because the Mighty Nein are clearly expecting it to be an awful place filled with bad people. Knowing the home they discover within it, this arc is a masterful way of showing the power of dehumanizing propaganda.

They constantly refer to the people they encounter as “the bad guys” even to their faces (especially the Kryn) and barely seem to consider the idea that the people there will be just like people anywhere else. They’re reluctant to help fellow travelers, they hold a lot of ignorant prejudice based on what they heard back in the Empire, and it’s hard not to almost wince at the things they say, knowing the actual culture they’re about to encounter.

This is an experience the audience has alongside them, which also makes it notable. I don’t remember these comments from my first watch; this is insight that I’ve only gained upon rewatching these episodes and realizing exactly how little the Nein understood about the Dynasty, and exactly where all of that information had come from. 

Given where they end up, I had genuinely forgotten that propaganda was all they’d known of the Dynasty before they made the snap decision to go through that tunnel and change the course of the campaign. I’m excited to watch this shift in perspectives happen with the wisdom of hindsight as I continue my rewatch!

[ludinusdaleth]

i think the critique of c3 not having enough free time beyond the main plot is at times valid but also interesting because i think near nothing kneecapped the campaigns pacing & development more than the middle act where they went to the shattered teeth of all places and avoided devexian and didnt expand on any character development beyond 20 eps of slow-plodding dread as they refused to talk out anything in that time, just did their own small things awaiting a moon mission. the bells do not conflate their whimsy with development but with putting off their personal issues. the actual ending here is probably the most well plotted out of any of the campaigns, i think people are confusing an annoying middle that didnt add much that would have been useful, with an end that actually is doing what it needs to just fine. isolated from the refusal to create much of note in the middle, the first ruidis arc onwards is fucking genius. hate shardgate all you want, it at least changed things.

[criticalbeauregard]

i meant to post abt this after the episode on thursday but the way beau said "i fucking hated her when we met" makes me wonder if there's going to be a kimallura-esque (in tlovm s3 flashbacks) enemies-to-lovers storyline for beauyasha in the animated series, which i would be really excited to see. i could be being delusional but as much as beau and yasha had a pretty awkward relationship at the beginning of the campaign that turned to resentment for a time once yasha was taken by obann (a resentment based on beau's blooming trust in yasha at the time), i would never have described beau's attitude towards yasha when they met as hatred. i mean... episode one is "will you hold me through the show?"

pike's journey in tlovm has been the most interesting for me to watch as someone who has seen all of c1 bc it's the most unexpected and new for me since they have changed a lot to allow pike to be with the party more. i'm super excited to see if/in what ways they do similar things for yasha's story in m9 animated. i expect her to definitely leave the party at times since they went into c2 knowing that would be part of her character and it became a pretty integral aspect of yasha's story, but there's so much room for more fleshed out dynamics with the party and if that includes beau and yasha feuding i will be thrilled.

[danwhobrowses]

5 Underrated Things or Tactics That May Aid Bell's Hells to Victory

Spoilers up to Campaign 3 Episode 116 below

Well Critters, it all comes down to this.

Vox Machina dismantled the Malleus Keep, killed Ozo (the Bozo) Kruft, and freed the Champion of Ravens which removed the tidal lock on Ruidus, and now the Mighty Nein have disintegrated the Weave Mind, completing essentially a full dismantling of the Kreviris Imperium, all of which quicker than I anticipated. All that's left is the Hallowed Cage, where Ludinus Da'leth and his inner circle are using his harness to try and fully destroy Liliana Temult. Bell's Hells begin a race against time to save her, but also a race to defeat Ludinus before he unleashes his intentions unto Exandria and its Pantheon with Predathos, and then decide for themselves what they do with the God Eater.

Suffice to say, and I dunno about everyone else but, I am terrified. I believe they can win but Ludinus is not to be underestimated, this second harness means he may be stronger - and he was already the strongest wizard alive - and have access to more powers compared to his simulacra, plus Predathos may come during or after this battle, which can put the Hells in a weakened state. Matt has likely prepared his best and worst for this final battle too, but the Hells aren't Lv. 20 combatants like the other groups; there's no 9th level spells, no Divine Intervention, and the group lost their cleric ~20 episodes back, so even though VM and the Nein were ultimately successful within 1-2 episodes having to use both of their auto-succeed Divine Interventions from their two clerics in the process, this is the battle. And with that is a ridiculous amount of tension for Ludinus and for what comes after. For all we know, the cast may've already recorded ahead enough to have finished the final fight, maybe even finished the campaign (though I hope not, partly because I don't want it to end yet but also I feel like the dawn of the new era should be explored regardless of what choice the Hells make, plus some characters could use a bit more resolution after the big fight and the pressure of stakes and time sensitivity have been alleviated) but for us it's a nervous wait, and a wonder of what can be done to win and what choice will be made to determine the future of Exandria, Ruidus, their faith and their people. So, this is my indulging into that first part, 5 lower-key things or tactics that might not have been initially thought of that could make things easier to defeat Ludinus.

Liliana, the Inner Circle, and the Arcane Battery Provided that the Hells make it in time to stop Liliana from being totally destroyed by the harness (which is very possible since Laudna does have that tracking spell on him since Aeor, it's all about speed and not running into enemies) she will still be without her magic to fight. Ludinus' inner circle holding her down is comprised of Reilorans but also other Ruidusborns, and that's something the Hells can expose. Liliana cannot fight, but Ruidusborns can take spell slots from each other, so Liliana and any KO'd Ruidusborns from the inner circle can be used as spell slot fuel for Imogen and Fearne. Ludinus also gave a 9-slot fully-charged Arcane Battery to the Hells in order to trigger Delilah within Laudna for his escape, the battery can help recharge Laudna's slots too which makes this tactic handy for the witches of the group.

Dunamancy One of Ludinus' most important tools for his plan has been Luxon Beacons, a device able to unravel even divine magic, but much like the Harness it can prove his undoing. Dunamancy hasn't been touched upon as much as early C3 hinted it could have, but for lack of a better phrase, the possibilities are still endless. The Hells have multiple Potions of Possibility at their disposal to aid with rolls, but they also were given a Sphere of Dunamantic Restoration by the Kryn, which will trigger the effects of a Short Rest and a health and spell slot recharge - which can be handy in a pinch and to reuse some once per short rest abilities. Ashton is the key factor though, I've mentioned it a few times already but we don't know if these items will behave differently with them, via their own internal dunamancy abilities. Given the unknown factor, that's why it's not deemed as much of a tactic as it is a Hail Mary, but it is one that could lead to Ludinus' own magic unraveling, and maybe even Predathos' too

The Whirling Dervish & Conditional Advantages In Vassalheim, Dorian received his family sword: Gambolcleft, the Vortex Blade. One of its yet to be used abilities involves a once a day repetitive use of striking an enemy, similar to how Ozo killed Vex, provided that they attack with Disadvantage. Dorian is already looking at a high attack roll given Gambolcleft's +3 to attack and hit rolls, and Master's Flourish means he doesn't have to use a Bardic Inspiration to stack a Blade Flourish (Defensive Flourish is probably best, the damage is also doubled by Gambolcleft), the only quibble is the disadvantage. Fortunately, most of the Hells have skills that can force Ludinus into conditions where attacks would do advantage on him: stunning and rendering him prone being most likely, but paralysis is possible if a Hold Person is successful. It would of course require his Legendary Resistances to be used up first, but if Ludinus gets stunned or knocked prone within Dorian's range, Gambolcleft could easily carve its way through him with continual hits, stacked potentially by Bless and Mark of the Messy End, for perpetual damage and make Dorian himself impossible to hit on his next turn. Stunning or Proning Ludinus also leaves Ludinus at the vicious mercy of the martial players, especially for conditions that auto-crit when hit.

The Hole (or the Bag of Holding) Occam's Razor. An old but gold tactic of the Hells could very easily be used against Ludinus too. The portable hole or the bag of holding are devoid of air, left in one long enough with it sealed would mean suffocation as have been the fate of many of the Hells' past opponents that they didn't have time to deal with. The Hole's downside is that a Strength check can lead to a creature forcing their way out, but the Hells do have plenty of skills that can impose disadvantage on Strength rolls and the aforementioned conditions could help that, Ashton's Hammer may also make it more difficult to unfold the Hole if its Immovable Rod is propped atop of it - but that'd be down to Matt's discretion. The Bag of Holding doesn't have the strength save, but it is smaller so it may not be able to fit him in it. I'm not sure if Ludinus can use Gate to escape either, dunno if that leads to the whole extradimensional rip thing that happens if you open one while in the other, but if he does it's a concentration spell so the Hells could just keep knocking him back from the other side, a bigger group of enemies in either also reduces the time needed before they suffocate.

The Harness and the One-Chance Polymorph Right now Ludinus is using a harness to destroy Liliana, comparing it to the one in Moleasmyr it'll potentially take about an hour to finish the process providing that this factor wasn't improved upon. However, removing magic within a being for a whole day only required a minute of contact in the Hells' one and maybe Ludinus', thus his creation and reason for long life and power can also be the key to his downfall. Holding Ludinus down for a minute is of course not as easy as it sounds but that's where Polymorph can come in. Polymorph lasts at most an hour, so as long as Ludinus is changed into a creature that can easily be restrained they can use the harness on it and remove Ludinus of his entire arsenal in order to finish him off without the risk of his high level spells. The tricky part is getting Polymorph to succeed; Wisdom is after all a Wizard's bread and butter, but there is a single gambit that could make it work. It requires all Legendary Resistances to be gone of course, and for Laudna and Braius to be conscious; Braius has a once per long rest ability to change a Wisdom saving throw to a Charisma one, which he used to allow Dorian to succeed in making the Dominox dance in the live show, Laudna's Void Puppet can force disadvantage on saves to those within 5ft of it, which will negate his magical resistance to just a clean roll. Orym can also use Hex to impose a disadvantage, which may be able to stack, but this would also hinge on Ludinus' charisma not being super high and if the Polymorph fails once it will likely not be able to be tried again.

The fight won't be easy, but there are avenues that can make it less dangerous, a strategy is very much required for such a foe. All the while my strategy remains keeping up the prayer circle. Deep breaths everyone.

[aeoris4lovers]

personally i think part of the reason yussa says caleb widogast the way he does, with such a weary but (not so) secretly amused voice, is because caleb sends to him all the time and insists on using up words to say “this is caleb widogast” every single time, as if yussa wouldn’t know who it was by the millionth call of the night.

once the nein spread out to do their separate things, caleb definitely started using sending constantly. he does it to everyone, but essek and yussa are the ones who (lovingly) make fun of him for it the most because 1) they can make sense of his wizard babble so he has even more to say to them and 2) they’ve experienced the chaos of jester’s sendings firsthand so they can fully appreciate the comedy of the fact that caleb is even more likely than her to call them at some ungodly hour of the night and talk their ears off about something.

caleb may be much more serious than her on the outside but if there’s one thing he learned from her, it’s that sending is a fantastic spell to abuse when you really really want to annoy your favorite wizards at 2am. what he did not learn from her, unsurprisingly, is that you really don’t need to waste words saying who you are every time you decide to annoy them.

when the three of them are together, essek and yussa absolutely do not let him live it down and have an unspoken agreement to exclusively call him by his full name just to make fun of him, which is fair enough considering caleb will absolutely never stop doing it.

[astralleywright]

i keep seeing people's complaints about the god stuff mill down to "it's getting in the way of the rp, they never talk to each other ever unless it's about gods!" which would have been a fair argument... if they hadn't been trotting it out since 30 episodes ago...

like not only is it not true that its all they talk about it also is?? rp?? very essential for telling the story rp?? great for exploring many of the major themes of the campaign and how the characters relate to and understand them rp??? are they just supposed to talk about their feelings all the time with their feelings being completely divorced from the world moving beneath their feet??? i've been watching Leverage with my mom these past couple months and i can feel myself turning into Sophie Devereaux as i answer this ask. does no one care about story anymore?? about narrative??

[katamaricule]

Ha, sorry to burst into your ask box from nowhere, but I saw your explainer post for DMBJ come across my dash (very helpful!), and I was wondering something random. A year ago I watched the movie The Mystic Nine: Qing Shan Hai Tang because it had Zhu Zanjin in it, but I did not have access to a version with subtitles, hence it was very confusing for many reasons (Zhu Zanjin was still great though lol). I was wondering where this movie fits in with the other parts of the series if you know? I see DMBJ around a lot and I am curious!

I can answer this one!

But before I do: There are subtitles now! iQiyi has the whole thing, so if you'd like to watch that beautiful man be a beautiful opera singer again, well, now you can do so while being less confused. Well, okay, slightly less confused. I'll get to that in a minute.

Back to your question: The movie is set several years before the Mystic Nine drama/book story begins. It's the tale of how Zhang Qishan and Er Yuehong (that would be Zhu Zanjin) met, as by the time the Mystic Nine itself starts, they're clearly old friends. If you've watched this movie, you have seen about the earliest filmed thing in the DMBJ timeline (flashbacks notwithstanding).

However.

The Mystic Nine: Qing Shan Hai Tang is an original story that does not use specific content from the novels for its source material. As such, it both makes several claims that contradict the main series and introduces a lot of backstory elements that no one ever mentions again. It simultaneously expects you are already familiar with these characters and assumes you know nothing so it can just tell you random shit with impunity.

This, by the way, is not unique to this movie. All DMBJ installments are done by different production teams, and all of them have to make up stuff to fill in various gaps/satisfy content standards for Chinese television. Therefore, every series and related movie will have some amount of its content directly contradicted by at least one other series or related movie. It's not like you picked some uniquely terrible starting point that will ruin you for everything else. They're all uniquely terrible, each in their own way. That's the DMBJ promise!

I return to my theory that the best way to understand every DMBJ installment and its various, uh, unique claims about the canon is to regard every story as being told by a different semi-unreliable narrator. So maybe it helps if you think of this movie as Fo Ye doing a double-take, like, sorry, did you just say there was a magical tattooed assassin? and eternal drama queen Er Ye going, shh, handsome, I'm narrating our meet-cute my way.

[sparring-spirals]

uhoh empire sib meta time.

Courtesy of that last rb by @iinfernal thinking very hard (very affectionately) about love in the form of, we are going to work to keep each other on track. Especially with Caleb and Beau. Because like. its not just about newfound acceptance, people who will give you the benefit of the doubt and help you improve, people who see your worst and love you anyway, people who will forgive you.

Like its about that! But its also about- i trust you to drag me back if i stray. i trust you to call me out, to push back. i am putting my back to you- you will protect it, and you will also pull me back if i wander.

The first big backstory reveal between Beau and Caleb was an exchange, not a kindness. it was, tell me why you are afraid of fire, and ill get you into the library. Caleb laid out some of the corners of his guilty conscience, to Nott, with all of her faith in him, (he is my boy), to Beau, with her skepticism and brusque curiosity, and it was not meant as a soft gesture. It was not a call for forgiveness, or absolution- it was an item for barter, a warning, an admission of guilt.

and Beau- still unsure, still rough around the edges and rude and defensive and angry, shell-shocked and out of her depth did not provide forgiveness, or kindness. She said something along the lines of- good god, you know thats fucked up, right? i didnt ask for this, what the fuck.

She said something like: you know what you need to do now, then, right? prevent this guy from hurting more people. This is what you've gotta do now, I think- this is what we'll do-

And Caleb gets into the library, and casts haste on Beau in a bar fight, and there is something to be said about love shaped like a willingness to disagree, to push back, to say things wrong but try to say it anyway.

Caleb, and Beau, arguing. Beau is suspicious and Caleb is ready to run, and "the problem with friends is you have to care about them". Running into old injuries and boundaries, working to learn them, to fight to communicate. Apologies that are awkward but sincere. Kindness that is misshappen but intentional.

Caleb and Beau, butting heads, poking fun, trusting the other person to be suspicious of them, when it really counts.

"Can we keep each other straight?"

Some fifty episodes apart: have faith in us, just a little bit? dont run.

follow your own advice. don't go.

Caleb, vision and hearing gone and flung out ahead, placing a hand on Beau's shoulder. Lead me well, lead me straight, bring me back if I stray. Caleb and Beau, going in circles about what to do as the world ends, ambition and magic and time and guilt, and entities at war. Worried about evil, about going wrong, needing the clear vision of someone who loves you and will not eternally forgive you.

"I'm worried I am exactly what he said I was."

"Not yet."

God just. Love as keeping each other on track. Beau and Caleb, as the only ones to get the eyes, afflicted by searching too hard for knowledge. what a horror, to have you and your tether tossed into an unknown spiral. what a comfort- if it was any of them, at least it was both. The Mighty Nein, making contingency plans, Yasha sticking close to caleb and cooing over his animal forms and ready, ready, for the worst. What a nightmare. Thank god. "Im glad it was us."

"You drove me insane."

"I hated you. You sucked."

What love. What immense care. Years on in, and it all still comes back to:

"You got my back?"

"What's the play, Beauregard?"

[wizardnuke]

if i make three posts in a row that circle around one singular topic n could have theoretically distilled it all into one. mind ya business. they're like brain dumps u do before you outline an essay

[essektheylyss]

I'm just thinking about those family secrets and drama that people don't tell the kids about because kids can blurt things out in mixed company even with the best intentions, that you only learn when your mom says something offhand about "And that's why your cousin lived with us for a year," while you're helping in the kitchen at 11pm the night before a holiday and it recontextualizes a whole bunch of stuff from when you were nine and things didn't quite add up but also you were having a great time having sleepovers with your cousin, but also this context raises a LOT of other questions.

So in that regard, it is so funny to wonder like, how much Luc actually knows about Essek. Has he actually met him? I presume he has, but in that case, was he in disguise? Does Luc know him by an alias? Is Essek one of those family members who shows up to events very intermittently and no one really talks about? For that matter, how much does he know about Caleb's history?

I'm just imagining him hearing the "Shadowhand" comment in the Archive and not knowing who the fuck this geezer is talking about let alone why his godfather's being threatened until Aunt Jester says, "And he's going to hurt Essek," and putting a lot of things together that also raises more questions than it answers like

[all-thestories-aretrue]

everyone doing an m9 rewatch, thank u i owe you my life

[princesskuragina]

There's literally nothing worse than joining a fandom where you're really enjoying a found family/sibling-esque relationship or well-written friendship and then checking ao3 only to learn that in fact they are like the second most popular ship tag. Like you can and must hold onto the truth but it does spoil it forever and the knowledge can never be revoked

[monotonecomplainyguy]

LETS GOOOOOOO!!!!

I don’t care if she is meta or not, I don’t care how bad the subclass is, she is going to be a permanent part of my team and no one can change my mind.