#lucifer and amara

[shallowseeker]

I love how in s12 Rock Never Dies, Lucifer IS using Cas as a stand-in for Chuck.

Here, Lucifer wants Cas's reaction, his attention. He's throwing his feelings of abandonment onto Cas.

He beats up Crowley, then he kills Tommy, THE ONE WHO HAD RUN TO CAS:

Then he looks to Cas... to SEE if Cas reacted.

And like, he throws Cas onto a couch. Clearly, Lucifer doesn't want Cas out of commission here.

He wants Cas to watch him kill the people to get a reaction out of Cas. THAT'S what the "weak/pleasureless/dutybound dullard" line is all about. It's the goading, maestro.

Lucifer finds it difficult to ruffle Cas.

//

In the shared mindscape in s11, Lucifer isn't torturing Cas per se, something that shocks even Crowley.

(((Aside// One of the things I noticed upon rewatch is that, a few flares of unruliness aside, Cas's predominant feeling for Crowley in season 10 turns out to be... pity.

Surprisingly, Crowley responds to that, as shown here in his complicated mess of behavior as he jumps in to help out… And Crowley is hilariously frustrated with Cas. "Snap out of it!"))))

But back to the Lucifer of it all. Even though Lucifer’s letting Cas be, he immediately moves to brutalize Crowley. "You want to put me back in the cage!" Lucifer screams. He also echoes Chuck: "You plotted to replace me!"

(Chuck will, in fact, say this TO Lucifer later in s11: "I know you plotted to replace me with the angels!")

///

Later, Lucifer faces off against Amara, the person with the twin fear that he has: being ignored, put into a CAGE.

But interestingly, she has no sympathy for him. (Hey, hey did betray her. But so did Chuck...)

She spends most of her time torturing Lucifer and brutalizing him beyond comprehension:

//

In the heat of battle, she rips Lucifer away from Cas and throws him away without a thought.

And even though she spent most of her time in season 11 creating discord and evil on the earth in similar measure to how Lucifer does (toxic fog that turns people berserk, storms, burning religious wellwishers to a crisp), there is peace and forgiveness waiting for her.

No one looks for Lucifer or even considers offering him a path to redemption/forgiveness.

It's no wonder Lucifer focuses his anger on Cas. Cas was the most stable presence he had in eons.

[frontseathater]

thinking about how they made god and his sister emulate the dark/light creation/destruction sibling dynamic that defines the apocalypse with michael and lucifer and subsequently dean and sam as their vessels and then made god bisexual

[sirlancenotalot]

[inacatastrophicmind]

[manwiththemagic]

The writers of s11 were cowards. If IIIIIIIIIII was in charge I'd made Lucifer's weird obsession with Sam show up more. Like the writers have very obviously included it and yet when Lucifer is processing the same vessel as cas, and therefore pretending to be cas, he just fucks off and tortures Crowley with fucked up bdsm pet play.

Like the few times casifer and Sam interacted were GOLD. because Sam sees it as his best friend cas, and Lucifer (who keeps talking about Sam like they're toxic ex's) is pretending to be him!! Although not to well. Like his freaky smirk when sending Dean into the past and coming back to harass Sam? Dude lives off of sadistic pleasure.

The way he full on LAUGHS when Sam says he trusts him bc Sam thinks it's cas?? Like gold!?!? Don't know why the writers didn't do more with that.

Also why not do more with the 'lucifer sent Sam visions to get him down to hell'. Like Lucifer is Obsessed w/ sam because that body/vessel is "supposed to be" his. And yet after revealing himself he doesn't try and convince Sam anymore?

He's just given up? Like nah man I don't believe that. I feel like he woulda fucked with Sam more in cas' body. And like it woulda been a way better not-romance-romance plot then whatever the fuck Dean and Amara were..

Like that came outta no where... I mean I get it.. but ew?? We saw her grow up, and maybe id argue "well there were two versions of her!! One physical on earth, the other her actual form and memories as a celestial being!!" BUT NO. SHE CALLS CROWLEY UNCLE CROWLEY.

cause he like raised her for a day or wtv..

Idk s11 is better than s10. Like the episode from baby's prospective?? PEAK CINEMAAAA!! also not that I dislike s11, no I quite love it, I just wish the dean plots were more fleshed out, and that it was more "Dean and Sam vs the world!!" Then Dean vs Sam yk??

Like where's my dynamic duo??

That's part of why I didn't like s10. Like no I loved the IDEA of Mark of Cain dean, and demon dean was hilarious (although I HATE him) but it was just Dean vs Sam, Dean vs cas, Dean vs the world. And idk I liked the idea, cause this time it was sam doing everything to save Dean, but man I just didn't like the fighting..

Also s11 had a mention of TMNT, S10 did not so... points!!

S1 and 2 of spn were peak ofc, and s3 was good but not really memorable for me?? Idk I'll go back and rewatch once I finish the series (just finished s11)

S4 and 5 were also really good, we got Castiel who is peak, blood junkie Sam, which was one of my favorite plots!! And of course a lot more bobby. Rest in peace king!

And unlike some I loveeeed s6-7 like.. the soulless plot, and death? Dean dealing with soulless sam?? Chefs kiss I mean mwah. Then Sam tweaking because of hallucinations. NOT TO MENTION GODSTIEL?? loved him sm stg.

8-9-10 is where it kinda fell off. I mean idk the leviathans?? Weak. Hated them ngl. Idk if they were s7 but either way.. mid. I didn't like purgatory bc no way Sam would do that?? But I did like how it developed deans character..

I don't remember what happened in what season but I lovedddd kevin, hated metatron (but in the "it's because he's well done" kinda way), the tablets were aight, Mark of Cain was uh... something.. (I hate demon dean but he was peak..)

So like idk.. show is peak though, I'm just at that point in the hyperfixtion where it's like "BUT I COULD DO IT BETTER!!" ykwim?? NVM I'm sick with a fever, supernatural is all I have going for me man.

[rexasaurus1]

Yep! Gonna be making spn tweets soon!!

[archangelbong]

[kacievvbbbb]

Supernatural and First Sons. Something about duty and how it is enforced with violence, and love and it being dispensed as anger.

And how the second child is a victim to it all.

Something about how Chuck at the beginning of it all was a second child, victim to his older sisters love and anger. Imprisoned by the wants and desires she had about his life and the way he was allowed to live it.

The First Child is always right in the end, the second child should have listened, but they are weak corruptible and wrong. Chuck destroys the world, how could he think he could ever build it.

This is the story he has always written. It’s the only one he knows.

[the-mpreg-guy]

Which of the villains you think is the scariest on SPN / what do you think stands out about them?

YOU ALWAYS SEND ME THE BEST ASKS, SHAL <3

Waggh honestly the villains hit so much harder in earlier seasons, and no it's not bc I'm a filthy Kripke apologist (I mean some of it is BUT). The world was much scarier for Dean and Sam because they didn't really know what they were up against. Each season raises the stakes and makes the opposition harder to defeat, which makes the season 1-2 villain, Azazel, seem like an ant compared to the final season big bad, Thee Literal Biblical God.

But like, Azazel is scarier than Chuck. JDM and Lehne just oozed this terrifying charisma that made you love and hate him in equal measure. When he had the boys trapped in the cabin, it genuinely felt like there was no way out. Demons were just so much more formidable in earlier seasons.

The world was also so much smaller, so a threat like Azazel felt bigger. We didn't know his motivations and we could only assume that his plans were Big and Bad. Every encounter with him left a Winchester dead (Mary, and then Dean briefly, and ofc then John). Really, he came out on top during every single confrontation. He stands out because he's the first monster that none of them can defeat, and their entire reason for hunting (well, at least John's, which pulls his kids into hunting by proxy initially) is because of him.

Despite generally disliking Lucifer, I also think he makes a scary and formidable foe (in early season only, though lmao). It genuinely feels like an impossible task to defeat him too, and the boys don't come out unscathed. They lose everyone to the Apocalypse, and then Dean loses Sam.

I also think Lucifer stands out because of Dean and Sam's reaction to him. Dean hits a low point of defeat, depression, and hopelessness unlike anything we've ever seen before. He actually starts praying to God to save him, which shows just how scared he is of losing his brother, and watching the world burn.

Juxtaposed to Dean's crisis, Sam pulls through, earns redemption (to himself. Everyone else has already forgiven him (except Cas lol)), and completes his wayward heroes journey because of Lucifer. His story feels very complete at the end of s5, which is thanks to Azazel and Luficrr bookending his rise and fall.

Later seasons villains are less scary Imo, but I actually find Amara to be a fairly terrifying antagonist (I'm loathe to classify her as an actual villain, because her motivations are more dubious than straight up evil). She’s scarier than other late season villains bc she has a nonconsensual, unbreakable hold over Dean, taking one of the most powerful players off the board on the side of TFW. She stands out because Dean is usually the key in defeating every villain on the show, and he’s incapacitated immediately.

[beautysurvives]

The play was probably written in 1598 and 1599 when Shakespeare was mid-career, and is riddled with jokes and plays on words — though some of them have been shrouded by changing linguistics and semantics. Even one that is in the title remains hidden to most people — after all, why would “nothing” be dirty? Much of this play revolves around writing secret messages, spying, and eavesdropping. People are constantly pretending to be others or being mistaken for other people, and are constantly tricked in one way or another. Intriguingly, much of the play’s action hinges upon the word. In Shakespeare’s time, “noting” (meaning gossip, rumour, and overhearing) was pronounced very similarly to “nothing”, and “noting” is what tricks the two main characters, Benedick and Beatrice, to confess their love for each other.

Why Shakespeare’s ‘Much Ado About Nothing’ is a brilliant sneaky innuendo

[shallowseeker]

Amara's face-touching is wickedly similar in these two instances:

11x21

Right down to the ways their eyes flicker sadly around:

//

11x18

//

"I did...trust you once..." she says to Lucifer.

11x18

I sometimes wonder if Lucifer might've been the Original "monster bait."

EDIT:

Which pairs so nicely with

[lower-the-volume]

o brother where art thou?

[sampegger]

do you guys think the writers would have taken it more seriously if it had been alastair around relentlessly tormenting dean in late seasons as opposed to lucifer with sam

[ananke-xiii]

There's a line from s11e20 "Don't call me Shurley" that got stuck into my little nogging and it's when Chuck tells Metatron "You were just the closest angel to the door when I walked into the room".

Now assuming that Chuck is a lying liar who lies I still like this line because it says way more about Chuck than about Metatron. Then Chuck goes on and delivers his cheap shot: "There's nothing special about you, Metatron. Not then… not now".

(Little aside: AND THEN Amara comes in a few episodes later and calls Metatron "The secretary"?! I mean, how can people not love her? Yes, she might have eaten a few souls so what? Sue her! He brother has eliminated WORLDS because Dean wouldn't bend the knee to him, who's the crazy sibling, huh? *insert a meta about Dean only willing to bend the knee to Cas in Purgatory and all the entendres intended*).

Anyway, for all his pettiness and shrewdness (Metatron is a great villain and I will die on this hill), Metatron replies with surprising grace:

"And I don't care if I was just the angel nearest the door. You picked me. Your light shined on me – Me! Oh, and the warmth. But then you left me. You left all of us."

My little fragile heart trembled a little to these words because... well, it's like the OG trauma, isn't it? To be chosen by your parents, to be loved unconditionally, to be somebody's favorite person... Oh, the warmth.

And so it hit me, I finally saw why I love SPN's angels so much. They are ALL (Cas included) a bunch of children screaming and kicking their feet because they want to be loved, thinking that if they follow their orders, if they fulfill their duties they will be loved.

They are all Lucifer minus the action and the mark.

These are Chuck's words to soothe Lucifer in "We Happy Few": I did. I was supposed to love all creation equally. I wasn’t supposed to have favorites. But you… You were mine. I gave you the Mark because I loved you the most, because I thought you were strong enough to bear it. And when I saw that I was wrong… When I watched my choice devour my most cherished son, I hated myself, and so I punished you. And I am so sorry."

Yes, Chuck is a lying liar who lies. Maybe he chose Lucifer because he was the one closest to the door. Who knows? Chuck doesn't care. Every angel's deepest desire is to be loved by God, to be the chosen one, to be his favorite. Which is both sad and... human? I guess it's a tragedy from the human perspective but maybe the human perspective is limited.

I don't really like the finale with Jack as God for a variety of reasons but, conceptually, the idea of a half-angel and half-human (Kelly Kline you will NOT be forgotten) becoming god is not that bad (Hello Jesus!). Especially if the half-angel part is theoretically (well in pratice too but I mean biology what amirite?)Lucifer's. Because, as Sam says in "We Happy Few": I-I can’t believe I’m actually about to say this, but… um. Lucifer is right.

At the end of the day, SPN as a narrative, did, in a very convoluted and maybe unintentional way, agree with Lucifer.

Like, Lucifer was right. And I know that if we put on our morality glasses Lucifer is evil incarnate etc but honestly? By the same lensens, the whole heavenly host is kinda evil. They ALL (Cas included) did a lot of pretty horrible stuff. All the horror and the pain for a God that doesn't care.

So I guess what should have been explored in Dabb's era was not so much nurture vs nature but more "what does it mean to be half-angel?" 'Cause really, ALL angels are a little bit like Lucifer. And if no angel really represents "good" what are we, humans, left with? Does the question "nurture vs nature" even make sense?

There's really nothing SPECIAL about any of us, humans, angels, demons, monsters. We ALL want to just be chosen and loved unconditionally. It turns out angels are not that different from humans, aren't they?

[iheardyourprayer]

The thing abt dean is that he will lock sam in rooms

[ispridestillasin]

thinking about the way that michael was created to mirror amara and lucifer was created to mirror chuck and how chuck probably didn't put as much effort into michael because he didn't really care about him as much as lucifer. how chuck created michael the way he was because he wanted a loyal substitute to control in the way that amara never let him control her, which really must have been a ego boost to him whenever michael obeyed his commands, and how michael deciding to abandon heaven and by extension chuck for adam must have really annoyed him because it mirrored amara when she refused to help him in favor of humanity