#love me some discussion
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Heyy Skipps what are your thoughts about Suo being submissive? As we all know he's like more dominant... but what if he has time when he becomes more into sub? Need your help! Have been thinking about it for hours-
sorry it took a while to answer once again I’m thinking hard about fictional men hehe also been pretty busy irl suo and submissive in the same sentence the way I raaaaaan
hmmm I mean definitely suo wouldn’t mind giving you the reins from time to time just to see what you’d do he’s gonna be like “I’m gonna give you control but secretly I’m still in control mehehe” then later he’s like “wait what was that noise I just made” he’s honestly embarrassed becuz why did he make that noise as such as he wants to be in control at all times he can’t control how good you actually make him feel so there’s whispers, grunts and soft moans coming from his mouth IM FERAL he tries to use his hand to cover his mouth or his face
also also imagine suo’s sadism rubbing off on his s/o and they’re like “don’t hide don’t hold back” TEASING HIM EDGING HIM now the tables have turned mhuwahahaha a completely subby teary eyed suo OOOOOOH MY GAWDDDD possible but you gotta tie his hands together make him feel as exposed and vulnerable as possible to make it happen also it’d take a while becuz suo’s self restraint is immaculate but eventually even the hardest of rocks break ;)
#NOW THIS IS AN IDEA#it doesn’t help that I’ve seen subby suo art on Twitter#so I’d know what kind of face he’ll make#OOOOOOMFH#pls pls more questions#love me some discussion#wind breaker#suo hayato#skipps answers#skipps chat#eyepatch man discussion
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challengers twitter pointed out something very cool: art's coach speaking to him in german!
the subs says "just invite her to serve." (which doesn't make any sense? and art doesn't even go to her after that lmao?) but he apparently actually says "wirf den ball etwas höher." which means "throw the ball a little higher.".
so art knows what patrick's house looks like which means he went there, he understands when his coach speaks to him in german and he's the only one who can pronounce "zweig", a german surname, the right way.
art learning german for patrick and spending holidays with him and his family is canon, i don't make the rules.
#challengers#art donaldson#patrick zweig#idk if a lot of people actually noticed that but i didn't so!!#showing intimacy in such subtle ways... challengers knows how to talk to me#artrick#patrickart#artpatrick#“ZWWWWEIG” lol#anyway putting little nice things like this for non english speakers only to understand is so cool#this with germans#pensiero stupendo for italians#“l'oeuf” track (beach scene) being pronounced “love” for the french#to me; a french person; “l'oeuf” sounds more like “laugh” but i don't see why it would be called like that#and “love” obviously fits the track and their discussion on the beach wayyyy more so#anyway i love it#idk if i prefer art learning german for patrick OR patrick teaching art some german#art wanting to learn SO patrick taught him is the best i think
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Hi it's just to let you know that the official romanization of Revaan's name is Raverne ! Also they have romanized Baul's name to Baur !
Twst coming back at us again with the least expected romanization! thank you everybody (oh god my inbox) (no it's great, I literally asked for this and the reactions have been INCREDIBLE, thank you all!)
I do like Raverne though, I think it's got a nice fancy sound to it! (I had kinda suspected it was going to be an R instead of an L, so the fact that it's SO close to Laverne except for that is hilarious to me personally.) and Dragoneye Duke is honestly probably the best translation for his title, I wasn't envying the localizers that one. :') Baur instead of Baul I was NOT expecting, but in retrospect I think his name's supposed to be a reference to the Bauru crocodile, so that actually makes way more sense!
someone else also said Meleanor has become Maleanor, which is the REALLY weird one to me, because I was so surprised it was written as Mel instead of Mal in the first place?! oh god no I can't decide which one I like better. 😭 (I wonder if they might change it to Mal...they have made romanization changes before) (like I remember House of Distraction being corrected to House of Destruction in Playful Land) (I did check and she's still Mel for now, but I dunno, they might Mal her up and some point and save me from having to make a decision about which one to use) (HECK I CAN'T DECIDE)
uhhhh thank you for letting me ramble about anime names, let's just say MONOGRAMMED SWEATERS FOR EVERYONE
#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 4 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 4 spoilers#mel is so cute but mal fits with the rest of the draconias better#eng version no you were supposed to save me not make things MORE confusing#anyway raverne huh#that uh. that sure feels like it's supposed to evoke raven doesn't it.#what does it mean WHAT DOES IT MEAN#hold on i'm going to flail around embarrassingly about anime character theories now#(okay first a disclaimer: i do think we need to sit down as a fandom at some point)#(and have a discussion about exactly what is actual canon versus meta speculation versus jokes)#(because i think there has been. some confusion. over that re:crowley and raverne specifically)#(but i do feel justified in being like THEY ARE PROBABLY CONNECTED SOMEHOW RIGHT?! right now)#like i really don't think it's as simple as crowley being raverne but with memory loss or something#(and if they pull that on us i'm going to need an EXTREMELY good explanation to go with it to justify that)#they've gone out of their way several times now to make a point about them acting and sounding different and it feels very intentional to m#(and once again: i super 100% absolutely do not believe that lilia wouldn't recognize him with the top half of his face covered)#i just think the contradictions are a lot stronger than the connections right now but there ARE some connections and i'm 👀ing at them#to be fair the connections are mostly meta like crowley being diablo/raverne being evocative of raven#also the general 'raverne mysteriously disappeared and apparently had distinctive eyes' thing#versus 'crowley's past is unknown and he never shows his eyes'#(i will argue that crowley DOES seem to have some kind of canon connection to briar valley)#(since he is clearly some sort of fae and the masks are a briar valley thing)#and that is kinda it right now isn't it#okay hold on i had to delete some tags because i used too many (thanks tumblr for letting me know and not just vanishing them OH WAIT)#so tl;dr: i'm in the 'crowley is connected to raverne somehow but it's more complicated than just him being in disguise' camp personally#but that will probably change as we get more info and also don't take this as an anti-speculation thing because i love theories HOORAY
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#so unserious 😂💖
#owen wilson#tom hiddleston#loki#lokiedit#marveledit#and in doing so is actually the most serious of them all which is why he's a master at the craft 🥰#the chimp documentary still has me on the floor though god i love owen so much#honestly need to study him under a microscope lmao there's no one in existence more fascinating and his choices elevate every scene#for my anon who wanted some panel gifs! apologies that the quality is obviously rough but this was my fav available moment 😂#as usual their improv saves lives i'm never getting tired of them discussing how much they added to the show#marvel#owenwilsonedit#dianagifs
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Something I really like about timebomb is that Ekko actually knows what he's getting into.
I'm not really seeing it get talked about but in season 1 they mention that Ekko and the firelights help people addicted to shimmer get off it and lead more fulfilling lives within the community. I should probably rewatch the scene for the exact wording (might be misremembering tbh) but that comment implies A LOT.
First: Ekko's mission is helping people where he can, he would probably try and help Jinx even if he wasn't in love with her
Second: He has experience dealing with severe mental illness as that often goes hand in hand with drug abuse, namely depression/suicidal ideation like what Jinx was exhibiting
Third: He's probably mapped out best course of action FOR dealing with this and has already figured out his own limits/boundaries. Meaning he knew what he was getting into trying to talk Jinx out of suicide, and was thus more equipped to deal with the aftermath
Fourth: He's probably helped ex members of Silco's gang. The firelights seem to have a theme of healing and repairing and recovering, so they've probably also learned to forgive. If they're mission is to rebuild the lanes into a safe space, they can't exclude people they don't like, they have to make room for them. I think they fought Silco out of necessity, and I doubt Jinx would be the first person they help who's killed one of them.
These all might be a bit of a stretch but I think it really fits. Beyond that, it shows that Ekko can ACTUALLY help Jinx. As much as unconditional love can do, Ekko has the tools for Jinx's recovery and a path ready for her. He also probably knows that her "healthy" will look different from AU Powder's "healthy." On top of that, I expect he knows how to respect her even in the middle of psychotic breaks and won't agitate her already frail mental state
#if you would like to (respectfully) disagree with me I'll GLADLY talk with you. I can think of nothing but Arcane atm#timebomb#ekko arcane#putting it in the tags bc I want to let people agree with my timebomb takes without having to listen to my other ship opinions#uh on that note I have some Caitlyn and Vi opinions that go a bit hand in hand with this#but I think that in contrast Caitlyn and Vi are mutually self destructive#see neither of them seem to make the others mental health... better.#Vi is desperate and needs love wherever she can get it#and Caitlyn... I'm not sure. I have a hard time reading her but a lot of the vibes I get off her feel like she just likes having the power#over vi#I KNOW THAT'S A STRONG CLAIM#hear me out#Vi in her search for unconditional love does a lot of enabling#a good example is when Caitlyn arrests that henchman in episode 3(?)#Vi is VISIBLY uncomfortable with that and for good reason!#Caitlyn just locked someone up for life for... nothing?#kinda like Marcus did to her (yes Marcus was trying to protect her but I doubt that's how Vi sees it)#but Vi doesn't voice this or push Caitlyn on it#instead she asks Caitlyn not to change#not great communication on Vi's part#but also indicative of how little their values align#and how little Caitlyn actually considers Vi and her problems and history#Caitlyn doesn't help Vi heal and she turns on Vi the second Vi stops enabling her and letting Caitlyn do as she thinks is best#neither of them are ready to deal with the others problems or communicate well#again. willing to discuss this. my opinions are swayable.#I just personally found Caitlyn made the most sense and was most compelling when she was going down facist dictator path#sure she could be more but I don't think the show ever really transitioned her away from that#you can see it in the way she treats Maddy#hhhhhh I should go to bed rather than spill every last thought I've ever had
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Angel Dust Turns Human pt6
"Alastor & Angels background 3"
Pg1 Pg2 Pg3 Pg4 Pg5
Originally this was part of pt5, but Tumblr doesn't allow more than 31 pics so☹️ Sorry it took awhile, I've been putting off positing this mainly cuz I've been busy w assignments and wanting to catch up w my hobbies💔 but I finally finished fall classes so YAYAYA🙂
Antoní is PLATONICALLY blushing bc he's flustered that someone would care enough to give him something in general🙂🫶!! He's thinking, 'Woah, a whole scarf! Omg, this is so sweet and kind!!' (NO ITS NOT IT'S THE BARE MINUMUM-). Also, sorry, Alastors shoulders kinda look less broad😓! Also, pg 15 (or 16?) Angel dust's cheeks look more pinchable than I remember lol🤭!
Anyways, we're finally kinda back to the present!😁 but uh-oh, Angel knows there'll be consequences eventually☹️ I feel like Alastor has only been saying Antoní, but I promise he'll have more dialogue in the next one😥!!! He just missed his little boy; he hasn't said that name in years!! Also, I should let it be known that Angel Dust's human form WILL be getting a haircut‼️ it may look aesthetically messy, but it's actually just clumped up hair!🤫
Again, sorry for the delay and hope you like pt6🙂🫶
Tag list: @diffidentphantom
#hazbin hotel#angel dust#alastor#fanart#hazbin art#no romance#charlie morningstar#comic art#fan comic#yandere parent#/platonic#yandere#found family#platonic yandere#fatherlylove#parental alastor#parental yandere#parental figure#possessive alastor#possesive love#protectiveness#I can finally draw moments where both alastor and angel dust interact in the present!!! HOORAH😁#Teehee its gonna look like Alastor wants to kill Angel dust soooo bad🤫😊♡!!#at least I hope it so🤨#Next parts will discuss the difference between human and demon(?) angel dust. Mainly about his KINDA meekness#Hc that angel dust (as a kid) loved window shopping but knew his ass would be beaten to death if he spoke of it aloud (he loves dresses)#a part of me wants to hc him as hispanic in this comic mainly bc I am too and who doesnt love self-projecting?🤫#but I also know some ppl tweek at these ethnicity changes🧎! He'd still be italian but his unknown bio dad would be latino cuz I am so🙂#I love feeling represented😒#I probably wont do it but just know he doesnt appear as a white man in my mind. Still blonde tho🤫
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i've loved you three fourteen summers now honey, but i want 'em all
dan and phil through the years ☀️🪞🕰️💌
#there seems to be a desire for some content in between tit discussion/spoilers for our avoiding soldiers so#hi have this <3#nothing special just some pics (a lot from the ii era i know)#i have more elaborate webweave ideas my pinterest is a mess#but this was on my mind for a while#tried to keep it to ones with summer vibes in gen although i don't remember the months from travelling#i love the pics they take of each other#also 14 just sounds wrong but its technically true not 15 until this october#or december??#iykyk#dnp#dan and phil#phan#daniel howell#phil lester#web weave#barely#lover taylor swift#pics#🌸 posts#also that pic of phil is kind of yassified ik I think it’s been enhanced but#it always gets me he looks so relaxed and they’re sitting so close :(
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No but like every time I think about Splinter and what he had to go through just to keep the boys alive, my heart hurts for him so badly. Is he perfect? No not at all, but none of them are and by god does he love his sons.
The fact that all of them are alive, and grew to thrive despite the circumstances surrounding them is a testament of how much Splinter loves his boys. He raised four babies following the most traumatic time of his life, all alone with nothing but the sewers to house them (to hide them.) I feel like he’s not given the credit he deserves for all he’s done.
And I get that it’s easy to hold up his flaws and faults when it comes to parenting, I myself like looking into them because flawed characters are super interesting and said flaws make them more realistic and engaging, but he tries, and again, so many others would have given up on the boys or failed along the way but Splinter didn’t.
He’s their father, for all his faults he did his damndest to make sure they survived.
#rottmnt#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles#rottmnt splinter#rise splinter#he’s not perfect as I’ve said#and he’s got a whole slew of flaws and faults#but he’s a person - we are all flawed#he loves his sons dearly dearly dearly even if he struggles along the way to show that#parenting is not easy! especially as a traumatized mutant who is forced to do it alone#side note but I think this is one of the reasons why it kiiiiiinda ruffles my feathers to see so many people assign parentification to Raph#and in turn make Splinter out to be way worse and way more distant than he is in canon?#like idk I just don’t see what so many others see ig but maybe that’s just me#i guess my thoughts are like- let parents have flaws without villainizing them?#they’re still parents even if they mess up?#we can discuss the repercussions of a parents actions on a child while not casting that parent as an awful person#parents are peopleeee#I could go on but yeahhh#idk it bothers me seeing splinter’s efforts undermined when he’s been through so much#idk if ppl realized this by now but I love me some flawed characters#tho I do think in this fandom the ones whose faults are discussed the most are like#Splinter mostly then Draxum then Leo#of the main cast#and in Splinters case in particular his faults are made to cover his good qualities which makes me sad#because he is SO INTERESTING#they’re all flawed characters and tbh so interesting because their flaws are ALSO their strengths in many aspects
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FARSCAPE | 1.06 Thank God It's Friday, Again.
#I love this exchange so much specifically because it tells us a lot about how the translator microbes work. I mean. I highly doubt that – at#least at this point – john has ever discussed woodies with Aeryn.#But I can quite easily imagine that he’s at one point looked at some alien thing shuddered and gone ‘ugh. Gives me the willies.’#And since aeryn’s translator microbes picked that up and returned it with woody we can kind of see how they work.#It’s taken willie – a colloquial term for penis – and substituted it with another colloquial term for penis – woody.#The problem is that these terms both have connotations that the microbes don’t pick up on#hence the incorrect substitution.#However they do seem to do okay with homophones#presumably based on context.#It’s like how back in like 2012 if you typed a word into google translate that didn’t translate well#it would give you it’s best guess#and then if you translated it back it would just have a completely different meaning. Essentially translator microbes work probably as well#farscape#aeryn sun#claudia black#syfysource#cinematv#filmtvcentral#chewieblog#smallscreensource#usercreate#userthing#farscapeedit#john crichton#ben browder#farscape gifs#my gifs#claudia black gifs#dailytvwomen#popcultureds
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// pentiment spoilers (implied ig but still there)
more of these because i was inspired
#i hope you guys see my vision on some of these#the claus and andreas one could also work the other way around i feel#also unrelated but why is there like no father thomas content out there sorry#will be talking abt big spoilers here btw#but like i loved him in my first playthrough idk if i was dumb but i thought he was nice and neeever suspected him#even now i can still appreciate him although i do not ‘like’ him for obvious reasons but i enjoy spinning him around in my head#anyway idk ig i was expecting to see more stuff abt him online like posts or fanart or whatever but there’s like nothing !?#to the like 2 people who’ve made fanart of him and/or a discussion post about him pls know u are everything to me#anyway sorry idk when tags became father thomas discussion time but i have a lot to say abt him tbh#pentiment#pentiment spoilers#andreas maler#father gernot#father thomas#brother mathieu#brother rudeger#ok too lazy to tag them all sorry guys#can write about father thomas for 6 long tags but can’t tag like 7 characters
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i can't stop thinking about this scene.
it was so light-hearted. sheng wang was all-smiley after finishing (perhaps multiple rounds) of revising and studying. but the lively atmosphere simmers down into this thick and stifling tension once jiang tian opens his closet.
honestly, if i were sheng wang, i would have so many questions too. why is he packing? is he going somewhere? but where? so, whatever sheng wang is thinking or feeling at the moment is valid (to me, at least, it is.)
i think it has so much to do with sheng wang's expression here (liu dong qin, the actor you are) that breaks my heart into tiny, million pieces.
it's in the way his eyes follows every movement of jiang tian, but particularly directed at the opened luggage, that has me thinking of sheng wang's fear of separation. the trauma he experienced when he was just a little boy.
i can't imagine how he felt when he saw his beloved mother collapsing to the ground—at the age so little to grasp the situation—to comprehend the meaning of sadness and grief and death.
he was broken. he was devastated. but those feelings as a child were just feelings. but the adult sheng wang now understood that those feelings come with bitter memories and realisations that death is inevitable, and death is permanent. his mother won't come back to him no matter how frequently she visits him in his dreams (and wake).
his heavy breathing. his fixated stare. that feeling of abandonment is washing over him again. they're coming in slow, steady and destructive.
so when jiang tian approaches him with the said book that has more extensive questions, he still can't look away. not until jiang tian realises that sheng wang's attention is now elsewhere.
and he finally asks,
i personally adore how benjamin acted this scene out. jiang tian immediately glances over at the luggage, somehow already knowing the context/direction of this conversation. (it's in the subtlety of benjamin's acting here that has me going nuts.)
when sheng wang asks this question, it reminds me of this scene in episode 1,
jiang tian was looming in front of sheng wang's house, wondering if he should stay or leave. possibly his only destination would be uncle ding's house. maybe he has nowhere to go, to be honest.
sheng wang immediately called him, voicing out his thoughts. and the context is similar—are you leaving?
although jiang tian answers sheng wang's question, not leaving him hanging the way he did in episode 1, it's still not enough. the reason being, as of right now, we're knowledgable of sheng wang's past. but what about jiang tian? we know nothing about him. we just know this boy is closed off and distant and cold and grumpy. but why?
these questions are the answers. but sheng wang doesn't know. not yet.
they could have just dropped the conversation here. but this is one of (the many) things i notice about sheng wang: he's always curious. always seeking answers. even in his studies, he would ask crab (i love you, friend) for the solution. and we saw some instances where jiang tian would share the method he used, etc, only to help him. and i think it's being presented at a different light here. sheng wang is waiting. he's waiting for jiang tian to give him answers.
as jiang tian says it's a habit, it might not be the answer sheng wang wanted, but it was needed, at least, only for the night.
it's so overwhelming to me how jiang tian has always been providing sheng wang with safety, happiness, anger, irritation, fun, answers and questions. how susceptible sheng wang is with everything jiang tian is. they are like mirrors reflecting one another. because for me, jiang tian is like a closed book, but i could understand him once i start reading. but sheng wang, he's more layered. he's open but also secretive. he expresses emotions, but not everyone reciprocates and understands him. not until jiang tian.
and i'm no longer sane in the head because of this.
#maybe you can tell... i'm not doing ok#and my way of coping with this tianwang brain rot is to think about them more#i should touch grass#i love them so much to the point of hating them#beecause they're such nuanced characters and why do they remind me of my 15 to 17-year-old self?#we might experience different things but the feeling is the same#the sense of not belonging anywhere#and everything in between#'the teenage angst' as some might call it#jiang tian and sheng wang are the embodiment of that#the on1y one#the on1y one series#the on1y one the series#jiang tian#sheng wang#tianwang#jiang tian x sheng wang#the brain rot is real and strong#na discusses
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felt so euphoric to be able to come out as nb/trans in Veilguard, loved the added dialogue they took the time to write and record just for such scenarios
now can we PLEASE make a game where u can explicitly, verbally come out as ace, and also without it automatically locking you out of the romance path
pls bioware (and other companies) some of us are STARVING
#would be nice to have been able to come out as ace and either have a lotta angst or have it be no big deal (which would be hella validating)#me picking the friends-option for Astarion in bg3 because we're clearly BOTH some level of ace#wtf do you mean that means the game refuses to consider the possibility of us still being romantically involved#Starboy I still wanna cuddle and flirt 😭#boi needed intimacy withOUT the expectation of access to his body and I'M RIGHT WITH HIM ON THAT#why i gotta friendzone him#and yes i know Josephine's romance (DA:I) was tEcHNicALLy an asexual romance but it was never actually stated#it felt more like a 'courtly love' taking it slow kinda romance path#not because our characters weren't GONNA bone eventually post-game or smth#i WANT the certainty. i WANT my chara to be able to discuss it and have it affect how the companion interacts with you#in a way where it isn't treated as the LESSER (incomplete) version of the romance path#asexuality#acespec#dragon age#dragon age 4#dragon age: the veilguard#dragon age veilguard#dragon age the veilguard#da4#DAtV#veilguard
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rewatching the lone star cross over with the knowledge/confirmation that buck's bi is sooooo funny, because look at him
if you saw these still out of context in what world would you assume they're from a scene where buck is consoling tk about his dad being presumed dead? like no wonder tk clocked his ass.
it's even more hilarious that this interaction apparently set off zero alarm bells in buck's head and so it took him a whole three more years to come out. he really just thought he allied too close to the sun.
all i'm saying is buck's lucky tommy was single because otherwise he would've carried on accidentally flirting with hot queer firemen and never putting the pieces together.
#you can't tell me mr oliver 'i was planning on leaning into anyway' stark didn't read that script and decide it was his time to shine#the bit of my brain that loves pain could write a super angsty meta about how buck obv never brought this situation up to anyone#because they'd immediately raise some questions#and deep down he wasn't ready to answer them so he just doesn't mention it#911 abc#evan buckley#evan buck buckley#tk strand#bucktommy#911 discussion#oliver stark#tevan#kinley
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i'll be interested to see if this holds true for WOT s3 since the s1 finale had so many extenuating circumstances and can't really be included in the comparison, but based off of the s2 finale, i believe that season finales tend to bear the brunt of "It's Different From The Books!" ire because they are the culmination of all the smaller changes made throughout the season.
this turned into a bigger analysis post than i expected lmao par for the course with my blog! read on for exploration of how the 2x08 conclusion of each season-long arc is the the most emotionally satisfying conclusion and/or the most thematically appropriate conclusion possible based on the show's particular version of the story, plus a bonus tangent on the nature of adaptation.
for a finale episode, the writers' prime concern 100% has to be "wrapping up all the season's arcs in a way that feels satisfying with everything that's happened in the first 7 episodes, using the book version of the finale event as the framework" rather than "recreating the book version of the finale event exactly as it is with all the same scenes and themes". the nature of storytelling inherently means that every single person who tells the same story will focus on different themes (just think of how many versions of the hades & persephone story there are), and a good adaptation knows that being internally consistent with its own Emphasized Themes is more important than copying-and-pasting scenes from the source material without making any changes to account for the specific way this adaptation is telling the story.
(but a lot of people can't even get past this first point because they don't understand that this is how adaptations - how storytelling in general - work. like, person B literally cannot tell the exact same story that person A told without putting their own spin on it. it's not possible! unless they're simply reading out the exact words that person A wrote, which can't be done when putting 14 massive books into maximum 64 hours of tv. so many readers like to meet this point with "but why does the books' version of the story need to be changed at all?" which is just a non-starter because a) medium differences require a ton of changes, and b) even if no changes were *required*, they would happen anyway because that is human nature when it comes to storytelling. when it comes to story-listening too! ask a hundred different book fans what WOT is about and you'll get a hundred different answers. rafe & co can't possibly make an adaptation that captures every single reader's idea of What WOT Is About, and nobody in the world could ever re-tell the story of WOT in the exact same way that RJ told it, not even the most die-hard book fan; all rafe & co can do is focus on making sure the show honors the core of the books' story while also telling a good story in its own right, independent of the source material.)
i was a classics major, okay? it gets to me! anyway, corralling myself back on topic.
for 2x08, it's very telling just how far Minority Reader Opinion deviates from the general audience opinion. general audiences fucking LOVED this episode (it's the highest-rated on imdb out of the entire show, currently at a 9.0; most episodes are in the 7-8 range), but a bunch of readers call it disappointing and one of the worst episodes of the show. if it was actually a poor quality episode of television, the general audience ratings would reflect that too (as they do for 1x08, currently at a 6.4 (i personally think 1x08 gets way more hate than is deserved and i thoroughly enjoy that episode, but i accept that's just me)), but they don't.
so what does that mean? to me, it means that 2x08 is objectively a very good episode of television which general audiences found satisfying, but which some readers disliked because it prioritized the emotional & thematic needs of its own version of the story over the exact nature of the falme events in the source material. which is exactly what a good adaptation should do! if you forget the books and just look at the show (which the vast majority of viewers are doing), then every resolution that happens in 2x08 is the most satisfying resolution possible and/or the only resolution that was thematically permitted for that particular season storyline.
egwene: her season arc was about learning to stand on her own two feet and not cling onto her mentor figures or compare herself unfavorably to others. thus, her freeing herself from the a'dam is the most satisfying possible conclusion to her season arc. nynaeve and elayne freeing her in the books is nice, but in the show version, thematically, it would've undercut egwene's Overcoming Impostor Syndrome arc to go "yeah actually it's true that she's not good enough on her own and when it comes down to it she does always need nynaeve to help her out". that version worked in TGH where she didn't have an Overcming Impostor Syndrome arc, but it wouldn't have worked in the show where she did. (but, yes, egwene learning in 2x08 that she doesn't have to rely on others is a double-edged sword, which nicely sets up her later-series struggles with trying to shoulder too much herself and not letting even her friends or partner help her.)
rand: his season arc was about learning to lean on others and not isolate himself or try to protect his friends by withholding his burdens from them. thus, him failing to defeat ishamael until all his friends come to lend aid in various ways is the most satisfying possible conclusion to his season arc. rand defeating ishy singlehandedly in the books is nice, but in the show version, thematically, it would've undercut his Learning That Strength Is In Numbers arc to go "yeah actually it's true that rand is capable of winning his biggest battles all by himself and thus it's no problem for him to push his friends away". given the themes that s2 emphasized for rand, the only appropriate finale outcomes were either success with his friends' help or total failure on his own, and they chose the former. (that being said, rand pushing his friends away is a continuous issue for him throughout the series, so i doubt he's perfectly learned his lesson after 2x08; we shall see!)
interesting to note that rand and egwene have inverse arcs in a way (foils!) and that some elements of their book falme climaxes were swapped, and that the way the show has done it subverts the expected gender roles. typically, men are expected to be Lone Wolves and women to be Team Players, and the WOT books absolutely play into these stereotypes throughout the series (sometimes intentionally as social commentary, sometimes unconsciously as an accepted truth of the world), but 2x08 and s2 more broadly did the opposite with our yin-and-yang co-protagonists. it's egwene who has the arc about learning to be a Lone Wolf and rand who has the arc about learning to be a Team Player. and imo these subconscious gender role expectations are a part of why some readers (esp reddit) got SO heated about "how come egwene can succeed by herself but rand can't", because it feels Wrong to them and Not How Things Are Supposed To Work (they've never questioned why rand can succeed by himself but egwene needs her friends' help in TGH, or all the other times in the books when men succeed by themselves and women succeed by relying on each other). but it's a totally apples-to-oranges comparison because egwene and rand had totally different season arcs and focal themes (but many paralleling & foiling moments within that), and so they each get a conclusion tailor-made to their individual stories.
mat: his season arc was about realizing he's a good, worthy person, finding the inner strength to overcome his worst impulses and temptations, and coming through for his friends after leaving them at the waygate. thus, him getting his Big Damn Hero moment with the horn of valere, getting validation that he is literally a hero, and overall spending the episode doing all he can to support his friends is the most satisfying possible conclusion to his season arc. (but stabbing his bff just as he was flying on a confidence high and trying to save the day was a downer note to end on, so we've complicated his relationship with heroism and set up some more internal issues for him to wrestle with next season.)
perrin: his season arc was about learning to acknowledge his inner wolf but also coming to regard it with fear and to believe that wolf & human sides can't coexist and he must Choose One (.......suddenly being struck by the bisexuality metaphor of it all. nice!) thus, him giving into violence to murder a human to avenge a wolf is.....well, it's pretty upsetting for him and serves to reinforce his growing belief that his two sides can't coexist, but thematically, it's fascinating and sets him up for some really great internal (and external) conflicts in s3. he's just gotten what he thinks is pretty strong evidence to corroborate ishy's claim that embracing his wolf side means embracing the shadow, so he's set up for a season 3 of deep-diving into his relationship with violence and his inner wolf. it's also a neat parallel with 1x08: there perrin's avoidance of violence allowed fain to escape, whereas here his embracing of violence has traumatized him (again), so our poor guy is really feeling conflicted in the pacificism-or-violence question because both sides seem wrong to him right now. huh, i guess perrin's full-series arc is about finding a middle ground rather than one extreme (pacifism/tuatha'an/human) or the other (violence/aiel/wolf). i feel like i've just had an epiphany lmao this is why i love the show! it tells the same story as the books, but tells it in a different way that makes me think about it differently and gain new insights!
nynaeve: her season arc was about learning that she, on her own, as she is today, is not enough to protect her loved ones. this is a tough pill for both her and the audience to swallow! but it's needed for her character, and we see it in the books too. nynaeve has an incredible amount of power, but she's terrified of having that much power and wants to pretend it doesn't exist. she's resistant to change, she's used to being in charge, and she's very "my way or the highway". these are all things she needs to grow out of (or moderate, at least) in order to be able to step up and do her part for tarmon gai'don. she has to learn how to embrace her power instead of being afraid of it or being too stubborn to let other people guide her and teach her, so s2 shows her what happens if she doesn't, first hypothetically in the accepted test (everyone she loves dies because she's blocked and refused channeling training) and then for real in falme (she couldn't help elayne fully or rand at all because of her block). so her 2x08 conclusion being Total Failure is not emotionally satisfying, no, but it's thematically exactly what she needed and will goad her into facing her block head-on next season. thematically, like rand, nynaeve only had 2 options for falme: break her block and succeed, or retain her block and fail, and it was too soon for the former (we gotta let her cook a while longer, plus the story will become too easy if nynaeve, or rand, reaches supernova capability too soon), so it had to be the latter. if the show had gone with a third option of her succeeding without breaking her block, then that would've taught her and the audience that it's fine to leave the block in place and she doesn't need to challenge herself to grow as a person, because when it TRULY matters she can always get around the block.
other characters get appropriate resolutions too! moiraine and lan get to work together to succeed after being at odds and failing on their own all season (rand foils!). elayne gets validation that she is an essential and trusted part of the friend group after feeling like somewhat of an outsider earlier in the season. ishamael getting vanquished and lanfear betraying him only to be betrayed by him in turn is exactly where their mutual mistrust was leading them (and it shows us why it's so important that Team Light be able to work as a team rather than as self-interested individual operators; the contrast between ishy & lanfear looking at the seals together while plotting to betray each other vs. rand standing on the tower with all his friends behind him makes me cry your honor. imagine hating that ishy's defeat was a team effort, could not be me!)
(it's also worth noting that the characters who had the least individual success/victory in 2x08 (nynaeve, rand, perrin) are the ones who will have the biggest individual storylines in s3 (tanchico & moggy, waste arc, two rivers arc), whereas the characters who had the most individual success/victory (egwene, mat, moiraine, lan) are the ones who will be taking a bit more of a backseat (of course they all have their own stuff to do, but none of them is *the* lead character of their TSR/s3 traveling group). this is intentional!)
so there you have it. 2x08 is adored by the general audience, and it's because of this: it gives us some damn satisfying conclusions to all the season arcs (and some exciting and visually stunning battle sequences to boot), and all the viewers who AREN'T beleaguered by "But The Books!", which is most of them, recognize that for the good storytelling it is. i for one will always care far more about the show telling a good story within itself than the show being identical to the books, and rafe & co will too, as they should.
the only downside to the episode is that, yes, it is quite cramped for time because there are a lot of arcs to wrap up. this should be less of an issue in future seasons when the season finale isn't "every single major storyline converges in the same place at once". for example, judging by the "goldeneyes" episode title it seems s3 might split it up so that perrin's conclusion in the two rivers is in 3x07 while other conclusions in other locations are in 3x08, giving each more breathing room. whereas 2x08 had no choice but to stuff everything in that episode into that specific episode because it's not like perrin could just do his falme stuff an episode early and take a nap while everyone else was doing THEIR falme stuff in the next episode, nor could the full falme sequence have been split into 2 episodes since that would have disrupted the flow of the story. the only solution would be for 2x08 to be extra long, which is nice to imagine, but we all know that streaming shows almost never deviate from their set episode lengths and so there isn't much point sighing about "this episode should have been 90 minutes long!" because that just is not on the table, never has been, and never will be. the first step to being able to jive with an adaptation is making peace with the limits of its particular medium!
plus, the only things i might deem "missing" from 2x08 are non-essential (ingtar darkfriend reveal - that is NOT important fight me, it's only important in the books as our first example of a morally-gray shadow-aligned person but the show has already been doing that in spades) or will likely be included in 3x01 (the gang spending some time together to breathe and process and catch up). at the end of the day, the show is always going to need to be paced very very tightly with not as much breathing room as those of us accustomed to entire books dedicated to reacting to the previous book might expect. and 2x08 did manage to pack in a LOT of character work amidst all the action and did a good mix of resolving s2 arcs while leaving some unresolved to carry into s3 and introducing some new arcs/issues/conflicts, all within 70 minutes, which i find pretty impressive. in conclusion, 2x08 my fucking beloved <3
#saw some people discussing 2x08 in light of the wheel takes episode about it#i've never listened to that podcast because my brain doesn't function with podcasts#but seeing it mentioned got me thinking about 2x08 and how much i love it!#book fandom's hatred of that episode is my villain origin story it is genuinely SUCH a banger on so many fronts#character work themes stunts action adrenaline acting sets costumes music cinematography EVERYTHING is at the top of its game#i'm glad that general audiences give it the love it deserves#general audiences are way better judges of the objective quality of the show than readers are#wot#wot on prime#wot book spoilers#just for some vague mentions of future storylines & character arcs
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Stuff i've been thinking about a lot recently (not unrelated to my feelings about star trek)
#it just annoys me that people are so quick to pass off shipping as fangirl craziness#obviously yes some of it comes from nothing and is perhaps excessive#but a piece of media exists as its own entity#and if you genuinely understand an interaction to be romantic#that is a valid interpretation that deserves thought and discussion#there are finer points such as the difference between queercoding and queerbaiting#but frankly the jayvik arc functions solidly and coherently as a love story#im talking narratively as well as just the existence of chemistry or tension or whatever#basically if a creator tells u that a work can only be interpreted one way#You Do Not Always Have To Believe Them#ramblings#jayvik#arcane#and if you read them platonically thats fine too! whatever!! thats the beauty of ambiguity!!!
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So... Warriors
It is obvious by now he's not ok. He's irritable and tense.
I've had thoughts and ideas on this for awhile, so I think now's a good time to speak them. Very important detail at the end.
There are some really big and some small things adding to his stress
The drama with the sword. Wild went against the agreed plan, and lashed out in anger fear for twilights injury. From things Jojo said, Wars is mad about it for a while.
I have said this in other posts, but based on things Jojo has said and some details, I do not think Wild likes wars. He has not really gotten close to him, which adds on to the negativity between them
But Wars... is a captain. This journey is different, and he's doing amazing at setting aside expectations of how to work with rank. But that is still a clear stressor- to him that was unacceptable in battle
^this is one big thing we watched go wrong and has clearly been upsetting since
Another thing is
Wars has been taking on too much. We've seen him break up a fight at the inn, comfort Time (time!), and tell him he'd take care of the others.
Twice he said "let them", and "let him be"-making others have space they needed. He asked Four what was wrong and followed up with helping with smithing.
^^These are all small things. None of these are huge- practically tiny tasks. But they add up- all the attention to others feeling but not his own
... and
Wars has not smiled. Yes, he smiled, but it was not his smile. Since Twilight went injured to the inn, there has only been smiles in a way expected, but not much beyond when he found out his friend wasn't dead. (And when he helped Four at the blacksmiths)
In the updates, I have seen others saying how cool/pretty he looked. Which he did! But emotion wise, I only thought he looked angry. Even when teasing Twilight...
^Not his smile
But here's the biggest thing that I believe is bothering him...
I've wanted to point this out for awhile. The thing is, Wars was really hurt when he found out Twilight didn't tell him about Wolfie
It's small details. A few sentences and facial expressions. But they add up over the chapter, and I don't think he felt trusted or trusting when he found out
He tried to find out who else knew
And why he was one who didn't
*read the blurred words:
"No one said anything to me, I'm just left out of the loop. Who else knows? Just us?"
Wolfie being secret wasn't necessarily about trust, but wars took it personally. He really didn't understand or want to accept that Twilight would have told some of the others but not him...
Wars is distinctly closer to the ones his age, who the younger ones often turn to. And as someone who's been through war, who bonds closest with those he feels he works with best?
Twilight having a major secret he didn't share with Wars, but did with others,
Felt like a knife to the (back?) chest.
And it hurt him
Look at his face when saying "we couldn't do a thing for him". He's looking away, directly after asking four and wild if they knew. I don't think he felt trusted. Or trusting. From thinking someone wasn't who he thought he was, and maybe was closer to others...
^^this is what I think is perhaps the biggest stressor- yet most unnoticeable
Wars never spoke to anyone about his feelings. He pushed it aside and went and helped.
This is ok. Between people so close, anything can be worked out. This is very revealing of how much Wars cares about twilight and the others
As far as Warriors pushing aside his needs and focusing on others... it's hard.
But I can confidently say this: Warriors would never want to not help all he could, when the others needed him
Here's this screenshot that makes me laugh (and somehow sky is just chill with this?)
Wars: oh my god my friend just came back from a wolf what the Hylia who can I even trust I'm having an invisible crisis
Sky: oh yay the sword helped he's back :)
Twilight: I'm fine *currently dying*
Wars is stressed right now. He's taken on too much, he's probably still mad at Champion, and... he feels betrayed (god wars should never have to feel betrayed) and untrusted
Like literally everyone ever others, wars deals with his hurt. Sometimes he can't deal with it alone, and sometimes he can. It will all work out, and I love how much he loves his brothers.
But nothing, I repeat nothing
Will be ok
IF HE DOESNT START WEARING THE DAMN SCARF SOON CMON WE HAVENT SEEN IT IN LIKE TEN UPDATES
PUT ON YOUR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT SCARF CMON MAN
Ok I'm calm <3
.
Art and comic by Jojo @linkeduniverse :D
#petition to bring the scarf back 2024#linked universe#linkeduniverse#no hate towards any for accepting Wars help#they were all overextended. now for recovery#my fanfic authors know what I'm talking about with trust and betrayal#he's not ok#I cannot make a post only exploring the dark sides of relationships#with love strong enough to hurt- how is there not beauty to be found there?#I only like the scarf to want it back. but. I have given up. have at it wars simps#Lu wars#I feel like some of my wording was too harsh- perhaps from just discussing an uncomfortable topic#but if I have said anything offensive let me know I want to learn :D
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