outerworldscans

[bitchthefuck1]

you know what, I actually will talk about this because it's bothering me. The issue with focussing so heavily on syd and carmy's potential for a romantic relationship isn't that there's something inherently unintellectual about romance or whatever, it's that a lot of people seem incapable of doing that without immediately flattening the story and ignoring or intentionally misreading any and all nuance for the sake of that romance. Every scene suddenly becomes about how it impacts their relationship, every analysis is done through a romantic lens, every frame or line of dialogue becomes about finding some easter egg or hint that "proves" these people should start dating. Their dynamic is absolutely a fundamental part of this show, but if you can only see it as a will-they-won't-they, you miss so much of what the story is actually trying to say with these two.

There are good versions of this story where their relationship is romantic and there are good versions of this story where it isn't, but as soon as you decide them being together is "the point," you lose the ability to actually judge the story for what it is, not what you want it to be.

[hua-fei-hua]

as soon as it's summer and i'm medicated again i NEED to write a series of essays covering my experiences switching from the broader social sphere of fandom which predominantly ships m/f ships to the social sphere of fandom which predominantly ships m/m, because i feel like a lot of what we say about the other social sphere is simultaneously true and false at the same time, and i've literally never seen anyone talk about it ever

[thesorrowoflizards]

i am BEGGING twitter to stop showing me doctor and clara content. begging. please. please please please. what do i have to do

[fernlessbastard]

So, what's the deal with this tnt duo art?

I've explained it in my reblog of this post, but I've decided to copy this over to a brand new post as well, because especially with qsmp happening I'm sure we have many newer people here who don't get what's the deal with this piece

Ok so first off: the artist is _olga.exe_ on Instagram (I think also on twitter but i don't use Twitter so you'll have to check that one yourself)

To the best of my understanding this art just came out around June 2021, which was immediately after the first Revivedbur/Quackity interaction. The first two or so months the ship was exclusively seen as a crack ship - I'm not fully certain why, I think it's just that quackbur before wasn't all that known and popular, so it seemed like it came out of nowhere to the majority of the internet (which, it didn't, holy shit, those sluts have been so gay with each other for so long). It also was a time when most people only began realising that ccQuackity was capable of serious lore, which most likely added to how the ship was seen. Even I myself actually was very hesitant to bring it up to my partner, when I began slowly getting into it - of course while simultaneously deluding myself that it's nothing more than a crack ship for me (@octobre-ackedia oh would you look at how we ended up--).

This art was one of the first pieces that were fully serious, and couldn't be construed in any way shape or form as /p, so it got picked up by people on twitter and memed on. Around September 2021 tntblr began reclaiming it (and if I remember correctly we had a boom of posts sharing the original artist about that time).

In this surge of new people beginning to ship those two that's been happening for the past year or so, I need you all to remember that quackbur started off first as a very underground ship that almost no-one spoke of, and then became a crack ship. The header on my blog doesn't come from a "ha ha funny" self deprecating meme. #twquackburshipping was a tag that someone seriously used to tag a post about how Eret commented on some tntduo/r tiktok.

I get how easy it is to forget how anti-mainstream of a ship quackbur used to be (or simply miss that, if you're newer - which, for the record, no shame, I'm happy to see the new faces!), considering ccQuackity's endorsement of it in the last months of dsmp, not to mention what's happening on qsmp, but all those "omg I'm a quackbur shipper ha ha don't hate me ha I'm cringe I know" jokes used to genuinely not be jokes something like 1,5 years ago.

I hope this explains it thoroughly, and to everyone a little bit newer to the ship: welcome! Glad to see you here, remember to have fun, and if you've got any questions, feel free to ask me :]]

[olderthannetfic]

There's a post currently circulating tumblr that says something like, "why aren't fandoms fun anymore? Because you keep policing people's headcanons and just making fun of people for having fun".

The irony is, that post was written by an anti. They have a DNI for proshippers and "people who think fiction doesn't affect reality" in their pinned. They've also posted in the main tags of certain fandoms to shame people who alter the orientations of canonically ace characters. (And meanwhile here I am, looking on with confusion as an ace person who honestly could not give a damn. Changing a character's orientation just to ship them, or because you want something different, or because you want to project, is not inherently phobic.)

They've also ragged on Zutara shippers, again in the main tags, for writing Katara as someone who's "soft and likes bad boys". In their post, they said she couldn't have either of those two qualities because "she's punk and she resisted authority", like that's somehow mutually exclusive with being soft and liking bad boys. But I'm pretty sure someone can be punk and still be soft. In fact, Katara feels like this canonically. She did assist in some uprisings in ATLA, and she was referred to as "motherly" at least once. And, well, we all know about Jet. So I'm not sure what this person is smoking.

For someone who claims to denounce fandom policing, and bad logic, they do an awful lot of both themselves. I've seen antis contradicting themselves before, so the phenomenon itself isn't new to me, but this one was especially baldfaced. It felt even slimier because of how truthful the PSA itself was.

--

"I Don't Do Drama" Says Person Most Likely To Start It

or whatever that old parody news article is called

(Yes, this is a longstanding pattern.)

[moonsceptre]

do you think bretlejuice loved lydia in the first movie or it was to get into the human world?

It was debunked in the second movie that his reasoning was exclusively to become mortal, so I don't know why people still believe that.

Jeremy knows the process of swapping places with a mortal and he tries to trick Astrid into doing it. This did not require marriage. If Betelgeuse wanted to trap Lydia, he would have offered her a place in the afterlife just as Jeremy did. Lydia wanted to die so it's not like it would have been a difficult task to convince her, yet he asked her "why?" bewildered that she actually wanted to be dead, and made up some bullshit that he needed marriage to be free.

Marriage between the dead and the living seems to be a mutual agreement to traverse both realms together, which contextually makes sense for Betelgeuse and Lydia because neither of them want to be alone anymore. Why would Betelgeuse even want to become human again? He has timewarping powers and can levitate.. throwing all of that away would not benefit him. Marrying Lydia was killing two birds with one stone: remain with the love of his life forever, and travel between life and death together. This is what happens in the cartoon, too.

1st Movie

• Betelgeuse had time to silently study Lydia, as Juno told the Maitlands off for not putting him away. Juno had to summon a brothel just to distract him from Lydia.

• "I don't want to do business with you deadbeats anyway, thank you. The only one I think I can deal with is Edgar Allan Poe's daughter. She understands me."

• "We've come for your daughter, Chuck."

His intentions are told to your face. Falling in love didn't just randomly happen off screen. Maybe this is my assumption but I get the impression the shippers who insist he wasn't interested in the first movie are just puritans who want Beej to be a perfect sweetheart who does no wrong lol.

And this?

From the 1990 sequel's scrapped script, there's a few things that are total nonsense and a few things that have remained canon.

Betelgeuse takes a polaroid picture of Lydia out of his pocket several times. He looks at it constantly while they're separated. I believe this was going to be a recurring motif where Betelgeuse was so besotted by her that he kept her picture on him at all times.

When Betelgeuse is trying to persuade Lydia, you can see he has a polaroid tucked away in his robe.

Who else would it be other than Lydia?

...Sorry, I waffled so much on this answer. @_@

[sgiandubh]

What do you think of the theme “we’re all adults here” starz is using

Dear Theme Anon,

That is a beautiful question and I think this is your lucky day: with a tropical night ahead (35C/ 95F - nope, that is not a bra size 😱🤣), we simply live at night, like Superman. So, while I am slowly cooking my famed (but tedious) Circassian chicken recipe for tomorrow night's semiformal dinner, it is with great pleasure that I am answering it.

Please excuse the length. I know what I am able to do when I really like a question and yours got me immediately interested. Thank you for that.

Funnily enough, I was just having a very enriching conversation this afternoon, with a very, very good friend, who is way more intelligent than I, so she has no desire to write any blogs on Tumblr. On the very same topic you raised, Anon. With her permission, I am going to sum up the gist of it (et merci encore �� toi 😘😘).

Let's look at that pic again:

The Craigh Na Dun Fateful Dance of Love and Death is one of the most moving pivotal moments of the entire series. Tens of thousands of women have shamelessly cried all around the world, while watching this (haven't you? I know I have and did it with no grace whatsoever, but pinky promise: don't tell anyone else, please). And then watched and rewatched and rewatched to oblivion, with or without that Kleenex box and that Ben and Jerry icecream at the ready.

You know, it's exactly like Shakespeare writes in Romeo and Juliet's Prologue ( I hope I still remember it...): ' A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life'. Love and Death blended together is one of the most powerful narrative tropes that ever existed. So much so, that a guy named Denis de Rougemont even famously noticed that in French, a single letter separates l'Amour (Love) and la Mort (Death), with seminal implications for our Western World mentality, ever since the Middle Ages. For some mysterious reason, we seem to always be caught completely unguarded when exposed to such ultimate injustice.

Tragic magic. This is exactly what also made OL a cult series, irrespective of its (many) unjustified lengths, its (many) moments of uneven acting and its (many, way too many) bullshit pills thrown at an increasingly jaded and bitterly divided fandom. Life imitating Art was just an unexpected blessing and a curse, that much we shippers know, and I am not planning to dwell on it.

But how long can you continue to sell this product almost exclusively to women, all around the world, especially when you are faced with the prospect of a dragging/delayed merger & acquisition (never a good sign) and an increasingly dwindling number of subscribers (never a good sign, either)? I'd think not for too long, really, even if OL still is one of ***'s biggest success stories ever. How long can you pretend to sell a high-end content to 'premium women viewers', when you know very well that you chose to discard that famed 'female gaze', which turned the series' first season into an instant media phenomenon?

Riddle me that: how to sell this product for a profit and expand that fan base while, at the same time, trying not to lose your loyal hardcore viewership?

This is ***'s first answer - I bet this will be followed by some more things, but let's see what it might mean.

On that poster, the focus is still on The Mythical Couple. Selling that good old famed, surreal chemistry - remind those old fans of that moment they felt all those feels (awww....). At the same time, try and create a need out of thin air - 'you need more'. More of what? Sex? Violence? Sexual Violence? Intrigue? Politics? Political intrigue? Ethics? Dilemmas? Ethical dilemmas? All of the above? None of the above? Stupid poster won't tell, but hey: buy me and I'll speak. Buy. Subscribe. We'll think of a way to keep you hooked - at least for the next season and a half. After all, Season Eight is a study in freestyle. After all, we conveniently leaked the info that 'Erself wrote the finale's script (why risk GoT's epic #shitshow?), so all is fine and dandy.

On par with our Mythical Couple, we have that sword. Oversized. Symmetrically featured. Action, with an intelligent twist - that is a finely wrought blade, after all. Uh-oh: that spells a new, more inclusive target. Male audience. 25 to 75, to be more exact , because the only promise the poster makes is a sobering one: 'more than fairy tales'- color me surprised.

After all, 'we're all adults, here'. Key operating words: 'all' (more inclusivity) and 'adults' (not like in X-rated, but more like in 'serious shite').

Well, then. That would require narrative chutzpah and bold choices. That would require a faster paced script, less of those never-ending side stories and borderline neurodiverse focus on irrelevant details (I am still not done with that Fiery Cross and not even ashamed of it, at this point in time) that do plague The Books. And throw rotten tomatoes at me if you wish (I don't care), that would require the end of that horribly robotic directing - we all know what the hell that means.

Will they be able to keep that high-maintenance standard? One thing I am sure of: when you treat your fandom like shite and drag along endless spells of Droughtlander without as little as a bone thrown in for diversion for months in a row, you'd better hone that blade, darlings and go for a kill. Bring it on. Bring that addictive spice back, stat.

It is my humble understanding *** wishes to create an OL universe. Wanna bet the farm that somewhere in their cartons they do entertain the possibility of (at least) a second season of BOMB? S and C cameos could be a breeze to arrange, after all ( we consider this in theory - I happen to think it could be more complicated than that). The story could be duplicated to oblivion - is it way too outlandish to imagine a season devoted to Mandy and Jem's story through several timelines?

[rosenotactuallyquartz]

Here is a question. As a pearlrose shipper, what do you make of Rose's objects stored in Lion? It makes me a bit sad because we don't see anything that's clearly about Pearl there. You have Greg's shirt and portraits, but no mementos of Pearl's. I mean, there is the flag, but Steven gives it to Bismuth, so I don't know if it was meant to be Pearl's.

why isn’t there anything about pearl in lion’s mane?

there actually might be. and if there isn’t, that’s alright.

i had to really look into pearl and rose’s individual characters & their history, but here are the possible situations that explain why we see nothing related to pearl in lion’s mane.

theory 1: “what am i going to do when she disappears?”

what im about to talk about would be quite in character for pearl, i think. in this scenario, rose did have some more obvious artifacts from pearl in lion’s mane.

remember this memory ?

“it’s rose. what was she thinking? she can’t have a baby! what am i going to do when she disappears? i’m going to lose her!” — pearl, a single pale rose

throughout the entirety of rose’s pregnancy, pearl knew she’d die—that’s been confirmed, at least. and this decision made pearl especially insecure about rose’s love for her. she was wary of greg at first, using the word favourite, but then we hear it’s over, isn’t it and she talks about her death while saying she chose you. but gems just love. they don’t label things like open, exclusive, polyamory, monogamy. pearl was alright with the meaningless human flings rose had, likely with this understanding that if she wanted to do the same, it’s okay, too.

(but mind you, pearl’s cleverness, tendency to be observant and focus on small details, & interests likely led her to finding out lots of not-so-great things about human society, while rose’s love for new experiences, naivety, and tendency to always see the beauty in things made her more attracted to human social life than pearl. but pearl was still fine with that, remaining quite protective, confident, & happy with her love life and personal relationships. it took longer for pearl to really warm up to humans, and then she made some friends, but this took until she got to know steven. she and rose always wanted to protect them from danger no matter what, because they loved earth and humanity but felt differently about human activities/socializing)

given that they lived comfortably together for 6000 years, this was great. but then, greg comes in, and he’s unfamiliar. he actually had something called decency unlike rose’s other human bonds, because it looks like said humans never asked rose if they could have a conversation, never asked more about the ultimate connection between gems, and quite frankly, given that rose was confused when greg explained that they (a human & a gem) were supposed to respect each other, i highly doubt these other humans even came close to respecting rose! forgive me, i have issues with these unknown humans, for some reason. they were more than some meaningless fling, so that made pearl worry about things like favourites. because really, this sort of bond was new and confusing for them. also, rose’s eyes always look quite sad, but in greg the babysitter, when she’s explaining how humans grow but she stays the same forever, her eyes seem to have more noticeable sadness. i think by this point, rose became more withdrawn. that, paired with greg giving her a sense of comfort and escapism from her pain made pearl start to really interpret this as, greg is her favourite. then, rose gets pregnant. this is when things become the most tense: it goes from favourite to choosing. pearl saw this as rose choosing greg over her. dying to have a child instead of living with pearl forever.

however, nine months feel very short for gems. and obviously, pearl wanted to spend as much time with rose as she could. rose getting cravings is probably why pearl is canonically very good at making pie (although i’m sure rose loved to eat the things pearl baked long before her pregnancy, so that’s why pearl makes food for steven, and that’s why she has generally a good & comforting feeling about baking pie). as pearl spent lots of time with rose, she couldn’t hide this pain, wondering how much she truly meant to rose. pearl is a passionate person already, and she was dealing with anticipatory grief on top of this. whether or not she tried to hide these feelings, rose knew at one point.

they couldn’t have proper closure, as rose didn’t want an in-depth conversation at all.

i mean, could you imagine what that would sound like? “how could you ever question my love for you? that was something i learned from garnet, not to question love, after i saw ruby and sapphire fuse for the first time. oh, it’s because i’m leaving you? all of you? you’ll be better off without m—oh no.”

she knew that conversation would only bring pearl more pain. so, instead of talking about it, her best attempt at giving her anything close to closure was to show her. she told pearl that she has important things from her and she “holds onto them” somewhere.

pearl wants to remember rose and hold onto everything related to their love, so she asked rose to return them to her.

but not right away. pearl wanted to watch over her every second that she could, and rose wasn’t feeling good a lot of the time. she’d retrieve them while pearl’s on a mission or something, so pearl never finds out about lion.

basically, rose did have things in lion that were related to pearl, but following that conversation she gave them back to her.

theory 2: “rose had a place that she kept hidden from all but me.”

this other theory is something i came up with when i was twelve. surprise surprise, i still don’t mind it.

“shhh! it’s a secret, even to garnet and amethyst. rose had a place that she kept hidden from all but me.” — pearl, rose’s scabbard

pearl and rose were incredibly close, and they had the secret armoury that pearl showed steven. so, why wouldn’t pearl and rose have another secret place? heck, they probably had a few.

rose & greg were together for 4 years, as greg is said to be 40 when steven is 14, but he says he was 22 when he met the gems. she was also much more familiar with earth and material objects, and she seemed to connect with greg through things like music and video tapes. they weren’t finding a bird feather and “oh my gosh this is so fascinating what is this” and keeping it, so that they could always remember their first hundred years of exploring earth (gregrose people, i am not hating on gregrose for not doing this… actually, im making fun of pearlrose more, look at these two silly sapphic nonhumans going wooooowwwooooooo when they see something on the ground).

it’s also been thousands and thousands of years since they first came to earth. every keepsake related to pearl… would be a lot of things. far too many for lion. so, maybe rose reserved those keepsakes in a separate place where she and pearl both knew of. i mean, it’s not unlikely considering pearl already had a secret place between her and rose—the secret armoury. she showed this to steven of course, but showing him their keepsake place is not something either of them would ever want. it’s personal. pearl goes there when she needs to be alone and reminisce, and it’s also probably designed with colours and features that they like. understandably she wouldn’t tell anyone about another place, bigger than lion’s mane, where they keep things.

my treasure chest theory

this can fit into both possible scenarios i’ve mentioned!

lion’s mane is still very much a mystery, even at the end of future. take the treasure chest, for example. it was locked, and steven couldn’t open it with a key that he found in lion 4: alternate ending. yet, in future we saw that the treasure chest was open. steven never acknowledged it, but given his issues opening it throughout the show, i really don’t think he had the key. i’ve made a forum thread about this, & you’d be surprised by how people think it was steven’s darn jacket. while that is something that noticeably changed, i don’t think rose would know his size at the oddly specific mid-teenage age, then store it in a box and lock it. some folks claim it’s a metaphor about pink diamond, but can the creators really do that? we see it in a scene. this means that the characters do, too. it can definitely represent/symbolize something, but it must also have some actual significance.

& i think it’s related to pearl.

the chest looks rather old, and i don’t think it would be related to greg even if it looked like something you’d buy in the 90s. this looks like a treasure chest you’d find hundreds of years ago… in an ocean, perhaps.

i think it’s a special box they kept where they stored all their memories in from when they first came to earth, first lived together, etc. maybe rose kept it in lion, and maybe pearl didn’t think she still had it. rose knew pearl had the key. she knew steven would find lion one day, and she wanted pearl to show him everything that they loved about life and earth. so, she kept it there, much like keeping the flag because she wanted steven to learn about the flag from pearl.

the box also has some flowers much like the one she put in pearl’s hair before the fake shattering, kept and pressed in a book. the original is also there, but wilted because it took longer to figure out how to protect it. she wanted to keep it because it reminded her of the beginning of their love. however, she also wanted to lock it for awhile after a few hundred years, because early life on earth was simultaneously a reminder of an experience they want to leave behind. it’s funny; the rose aspect of it, the beginning, they want to remember. the pink aspect of it, the end, they want to forget. years following this, pearl mentioned that she was ready to open it again, but rose didn’t seem to be. eventually rose was ready, but pearl never asked about the box again. she assumed rose never kept it, after this.

between change your mind and future, i think steven mentioned the box once. pearl asked him to describe it, and then she asked if he could bring it out. she had the key (hence steven couldn’t open it in the mane), she kept everything with her and after being incredibly emotional about all of this, she let steven keep the box. so now it’s open in lion’s mane so he can keep things related to connie (gifts, keepsakes, memories). pearl thinks this feels right because:

rose would love this

steven requested this

pearl is close to connie

they remind pearl of her and rose when they were younger

ending this post with these sketches of pearl by rebecca sugar. she’s wearing her 80s outfit with the leg warmers. in the first picture she sits with her cheek in her palm, blushing slightly, staring in adoration. the second picture is from waist up, her hands are in fists in front of her like she’s dancing, and her head is turned, smiling. i have a feeling she’s looking at rose in these pictures.

[lemotmo]

I think parts of that fandom are kind of in a tailspin of reality at the moment. Her ask box is still closed but this is OUCH

My friend received an ask telling him that he can't hold that deleted clip against Tommy because it's not technically canon since it was deleted. In the same ask they told him he had to give Tommy credit for letting Buck set the pace. Sweetie, you can't pick and choose what parts of a deleted clip you can claim are canon and what parts you can ignore. That's not how it works. The part of that clip that is absolutely canon is the repeated pattern, in non deleted scenes, of blatant dismissal on Tommy's part regarding any type of conversational depth when it comes to the topic of Buck and their relationship. I don't need a deleted clip to prove that's what's happening.

A couple of things are fairly obvious here. The traffic on that post is not what it would have been even 3 weeks ago. That's the first thing. Yes the numbers were decent but not great and certainly not impressive. They are representative of a small fandom, which is what you are. The second thing is they didn't trend on Twitter or Tumblr following the post, something that definitely would have happened a few weeks ago, and a barometer his fans constantly like to use as 'proof' of popularity. So something has shifted/happened. It could be that all the people screaming that they had been blocked by the official show account were being honest and the account moderators figured out their spamming game. Something that was always going to happen eventually given the kind of things they were openly admitting they were saying and sending. The Buddie fandom figured it out weeks ago and quickly started making up the commenting ground on the posts, they also, wisely, stopped engaging with the Buck/Tommy comments on those same posts. So it was only a matter of time before they became drowned out anyway. Meaning the numbers were always artificially inflated and once they weeded out the duplicate accounts the numbers naturally decreased. Or the more likely scenario, the hype faded. Something that was also always going to happen.

Anytime a show has 2 men kissing it's going to be talked about. People will watch it. Get excited over it. Want more of it. But if the show doesn't provide content of some kind, the excitement from the wider group at large, dwindles. My ask box, along with my friend groups ask boxes, pretty much confirm that the die hard shippers don't really care about the couple. They ship Lou. Buck and Oliver are just the character/actor Lou is paired with. Look at their behavior towards Oliver. He didn't engage with them, he doesn't promote the pair, and he doesn't follow Lou, so they openly turned against him. That was never going to be sustainable from a large numbers perspective. The audience cares about Buck not Tommy. It was never a smart strategy. Making it almost exclusively about Lou was never going to end well. The frantic posting following the release of the clip trying to explain why it was actually a good thing that Tommy doesn't care what the 118 thinks of him, when anyone with just a passing knowledge of the show knows it's actually a very bad sign, tells me all I need to know. You're aware of the reality of what the show, THUS FAR, is doing. Only it doesn't match the content you paid $200 to hear, my apologies $169 to hear, so you feel cheated. That's not Oliver's fault. That's not the show's fault. And it's why I'm more certain each day that Tim put a stop to it. Those videos created an unmitigated disaster for everyone not named Lou.

I also think some people genuinely don't understand the size difference between the two fandoms. The Buddie fandom makes up a significant number of their audience as a whole. Their fans are not all on Tumblr and Twitter. They have general audience fans. That is not an exaggeration. And it's something the show is more than aware of. Do not try to pretend the show doesn't know that. The general audience/passive fans, like them as a unit. It's just a fact. And never, until now, has a group tried so hard to pretend they aren't an audience favorite. They are. I also think there's quite a few fans like me. I don't classify myself as a shipper. I want the best story for the characters I love, Buck and Eddie. I like Tommy for the larger Buck and Eddie story I think they're using his character to set up. Once it's been set, I don't need or care to have Tommy stick around. Once the newness of the Buck/Tommy pair settled lots of casual shippers were always going to make their way back to the Buddie side. It's the side with all the context. It's also the side the actor/character the show cares about is on. And I promise you Oliver gets a say. Ryan gets a say. Lou doesn't get a say. Paid for headcanons don't get a say.

Ooooof, well--

Nothing to add to this one I think, so I'll wisely stay quiet. Thank you anonymous OP for being so based in reality. :)

Thank you for sending this to me Nonny. It's appreciated, as always.

Remember, no hate in comments or reblogs. Let's keep it civil and respectful. Thank you.

If you are interested in more of the anonymous OP’s posts, you can find all of their posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

[austinslounge]

The KRAZY Kaustin Relationship 🤡 Circus (2024 Timeline)

(Hey everyone! 👋 Since I was starting to get mixed up and confused with all of the dates and drama going on in this ghetto situationship, I figured I would create a timeline so we can track this craziness. It might also help make clearer some of the things going on in this clown-show 🤡 of a "relationship" lol. 😂 **PLEASE feel free to let me know if there are any relevant things missing that you feel that I should definitely add to this year's timeline. I will continue to update as time goes on.)

2024:

December 2023/Jan 2024 - Austin went to Cabo with Kaia and her family for their annual Christmas Holiday and New Year's vacation. Link 1 Link 2

January 5, 2024 - Kaia posts a cringey Instagram story where she's crying because Ayo wins the Golden Globe that night, and some shippers swear that it was Austin filming her.

But Callum and Austin both state (twice, in two different interviews for MOTA press) that they were watching the Golden Globes together, "just the two of them", at Austin's "pad", and one article even mentions that "no girlfriends" were around. Link

January 10, 2024 - Life & Style posts an article stating that Cindy Crawford "doesn't want Kaia to wait for a commitment from Austin Butler". This seems to be one of the first few times the couple has ever received any type of negative press about their relationship. Link

Austin has the MOTA premiere in LA.  The L&S article came out on the same exact day as his MOTA red carpet premiere.  

March 13, 2024 - Austin and Kaia are spotted at the gym in LA looking just as bland together (as always).  Link    These pictures were taken the day right before Kaia's "Palm Royale" red carpet premiere night on March 14th. Link  

Presley posts a picture of him with Austin at the Palm Royale premiere.  

May 25, 2024 - Kaustin did a NYC Pap Stroll where they both look miserable.    Link 1 Link 2

May 26, 2024 - Austin kicks off "The Bikeriders" press tour with Jodie at the Indy500 race. Fans immediately notice that he looks way happier with Jodie than he looked with his gf Kaia just a day ago in NYC.  Link 1 Link 2 Link 3

May 27, 2024 - People.com posts an exclusive from a source that claims that Austin and Kaia are "still happy and in love". Many fans strongly suspect that this was a message put out from Kaia's team because they both looked so miserable in NYC, and perhaps the media reached out to ask what is going on, or perhaps her team herself reached out to People.com to put out this fluff article.  Link 

May 31, 2024 - Life & Style posts an exclusive story from a source that claims that Austin and Kaia "have nothing in common and they know it".  Link

June 4, 2024 - Fans noticed that Austin liked a post on Instagram (Posted on May 24th) about girls "with two A's in her name".  The post was tagged #toxicrelationships  Link 1 Link 2

June 9, 2024 - DeuxMoi posts on her "Sunday Spotted" a message from a sender that says they supposedly saw Austin, Kaia, Camila Morrone, and her boyfriend Cole in the Cayman Islands together.  The sighting seems strange (and fake) since Austin has been on a Bikeriders Press Tour the whole entire time.  Link

August 3, 2024 - Kaia is in Montana for a Gerber Family Wedding (Cousin). Austin was not in attendance. 

August 16, 2024 - Presley Unfollows Austin (AGAIN) lol 

August 17, 2024 - Austin's Birthday Pap Stroll.  Link 1 Link 2 

August 18, 2024 - Pictures of Austin hanging with Dylan O'brien at the Joyface bar/club in NYC surface on DeuxMoi "Sunday Spotted". It was stated that there was "No Kaia".  Link 1 Link 2

August 21, 2024 - Austin spotted with Channing Tatum and Zoe Kravitz in NYC Manhattan at the "Blink Twice" after party.  The difference between how happy and lively he looks with them, vs how lackluster and bored he looked just the night prior while out with Kaia is not lost on fans. 

Link 1 Link 2 Link 3

August 27, 2024 - Austin spotted in Muskoka with Kaia and the Gerbers  Link 1 Link 2

On this same day, Kaia posts the "Dear Dickhead" post to her Instagram while on vacation in Muskoka. Link

September 4, 2024 - Kaia's birthday at Disneyland. Actress Ayo Edibiri and Presley's gf were also in attendance, but Austin was not present. Link 

Presley posts a birthday tribute to his sister Kaia on Instagram, and in it, he posts a picture of Austin with them at a Halloween event last year. Link

September 9, 2024 - Austin begins filming "Caught Stealing" in NYC around this time.

September 10, 2024 - Kaia and SNL movie co-star Corey Michael Smith do an interview on the red carpet that raises a few eyebrows. She appears to be flirting with him. Link 1 Link 2

September 15, 2024 - DeuxMoi's "Sunday Spotted" post mentions Kaia and Marcello were spotted at The Odeon restaurant in NYC, and were "all over each other".  They were supposedly "ignoring everyone else at their table", and one point went downstairs together for 20 minutes.  

September 16, 2024 - Kaia and Marcello appear to be at a friend's party at Victoria Bar (NYC) getting kind of close for a woman who's supposedly in a relationship with another man.  Link 1 Link 2 Link 3

September 19, 2024 - Marcello untagged himself from the photos with Kaia at the party in NYC.

September 20, 2024 - Life & Style posts that Austin is "outgrowing" his relationship with Kaia, and that Kaia is "trying to stay interesting" in order to keep him interested. Link 

September 21, 2024 - Kaia is in LA celebrating her best friend Travis' birthday. Link 1 Link 2

Austin attends the "Dune: Part 2" FYC event in NYC with Timothee, Zendaya and Denis. Link 1 Link 2

September 29, 2024 - DeuxMoi posts portions of her podcast that deal with Austin and Kaia, and she swears that Austin and Kaia are still together.  She also posts (for the first time) a supposed Kaustin "sighting" that said that Austin and Kaia were spotted together getting coffee on the weekend (14th) and that they looked "happy" and "in love". She never posted this sighting until now.   Link

On DM's Sunday Spotted, someone reported that they saw Austin and Kaia at iSodi restaurant in NYC. Link

October 1, 2024 - Kaia is spotted out at a play in NYC with Camila Morrone's boyfriend, Cole Bennett.  Link 1 Link 2

The Daily Mail posts the outing with Kaia and Cole to their website.  Link

Marie Claire also posts about the outing, and even claims that Austin and Kaia have broken up.   Link 

Earlier this day, DeuxMoi posted a supposed sighting from one of her followers that said that they "worked with Kaia during TIFF" and saw that she was FaceTiming Austin at one point, and that they were "incredibly loving" and "happy" over the phone.  

That evening (Oct 1st), Kaia is spotted with Cole Bennet (Camila's bf) going to a play in NYC, and the outing looked like a date, so much so that Marie Claire and The Daily Mail were even speculating about Austin and Kaia breakup rumors lol. 😅

October 2, 2024 - Kaia is featured in Time100's issue.

Page Six puts out an article showing Kaia out to dinner with Laura Dern and Liam Hemsworth the night before, and claiming that Austin and Kaia are still together, and that there is "no trouble in paradise". Some feel that this is only damage control since it seems very odd to many that Kaia has been spotted in pictures (paps and citizen photos) all over NYC with everyone but her boyfriend. 👀 Link

The article goes on to mention that Austin was supposed to join them for dinner that night, but he got tied up with work and couldn't make the dinner. Some feel that's really strange, especially when signs stated that "Caught Stealing" was having a night shoot on October 1st, so why would he have committed to having dinner if he knew he was going to be filming that evening? 🤔

October 3, 2024 - The Daily Mail posts pictures of Austin and Zoe kissing on set for "Caught Stealing", and makes sure to let everyone know that they are just acting, and that both are in "serious, real-life relationships". 🤣😅😂 As if we the reader is dumb and didn't know that lol. 🙄Link

October 5, 2024 - Austin and Kaia attend Kaia's friend, Gracie Abram's concert in NYC together (looking miserable as usual). Link

This was their first public outing where they're papped together since the whole Marcello thing and breakup rumors. Some fans and people on the general public aren't buying it anymore though. Link

October 11, 2024 - Life & Style yet again puts out another article stating that Austin and Kaia's relationship has been having issues "for weeks", and that Cindy thinks that Kaia needs to try "harder" to "keep Austin interested", and even suggests that the couple should go to "couples therapy" together. Link 1 Link 2 Link 3

The article also hinted that Austin's career is what is most prioritized and on his mind, and that Cindy is a little upset that Kaia has been acting flirty with other guys instead of working hard to keep Austin interested in her.

October 13, 2024 - Kaia follows actor Nicholas Chavez on Instagram. Link

October 16, 2024 - The Daily Mail posts an article stating that the Gerbers are giving Austin a "fierce warning" and want him to commit to their daughter Kaia with an engagement 💍 Link

October 21, 2024 - Actor Nicholas Chavez follows Kaia back on Instagram. 👀 Fans notice that he liked a bunch of Kaia's pics -- even posts from 2017. 😏 Link 1 Link 2

[scoupsahoy]

i wanna talk about The Ship War going on right now in the 911 fandom (largely on tiktok and twitter) and i'm not a bnf especially in this fandom (and i wouldn't want to be) but i'm kind of hoping people on both sides are willing to read this post anyway because i cannot be the only one completely turned off by it

i finished writing this so i wanna clarify: this is officially aimed at buddie shippers (i am one of you) because i genuinely want to have meaningful discussion and also i'm not exactly defending tommy here. but! i think if bucktommy shippers were interested in reading, there is stuff in here for you too

i have to split this up into sections which is annoying but i won't be able to make any sense without sections so. sorry

1. pre-tommy buddie shipping

so like a lot of people i knew about 911 and buddie entirely through tumblr osmosis, and there was a general attitude of confidence: buddie WILL become canon. if it doesn't... something something. i don't really know the season 6 finale was hard for a lot of you. and after watching, i do really understand why. but.

from an outside perspective, this fandom attitude was nothing like i'd ever really experienced before. i stopped watching supernatural around season 11, several years before gaycas, when confirmed bisexual dean was genuinely outside the realm of possibility.

i was a tjlc believer. i was an episode 4 conspiracist. i have been delusional about gays on my television screen before. so i was really apprehensive at the way buddie fans were moving. not only was buddie GOING to happen, but if it didn't it would be a failure of the network and the showrunners and the actors and it could have been the greatest love story ever told and shipping was not ENOUGH. it had to be canon in order to matter. shipping anything else was fruitless and offensive. this was what i was seeing. and i was like. well there's no way that's going to happen

and then season 7 started airing and there was this reignited hope

and then 7x4 aired.

2. the birth of bucktommy

so i started watching 911 after 7x4 aired. a lot of people did. i'll be honest i did genuinely think that eddie was out and gay and i was like "oh shit is it finally happening??" and then i realized it was some other guy and spend like 4 straight days tumblr deepdiving into it

like i said i was almost exclusively following buddie shippers so my consensus was like. buck and tommy are cute but it's obviously (TO ME) a steppingstone for buddie. after watching the entire show i do still feel that way.

here's the thing though: shipping isn't about what is going to be canon. i'm a marvel fan. my first fandom was fucking icarly, okay, my track record of shipping non-canon couples that actually end up together starts and ends with nbc sitcoms and even then barely. shipping to me is about character analysis and smooshing barbie dolls together with my friends. shipping to me is putting some guy in a blender and another guy performing frankenstein experiments on them

it doesn't matter to me actually that a ship isn't going to end up together, even if i like them. i'm not saying some bucktommy fans don't overstep certain boundaries (that i'll get into) but a FAIR BIT of them know this. a fair bit of them were buddie shippers and a fair bit of them still are. and there's a reason theyre put off

3. social media discourse

the first real piece of morality discourse came from tiktok. i won't namedrop this creator but if you're on tiktok you know who i'm talking about.

this person started the tiktok talking about something that i genuinely do agree with: fans who love tommy but hated all of buck's ex girlfriends should probably perform some self-reflection on the very real misogyny problem in 911 fandom and fandom in general. this i am 1000% behind. a call-in of sorts: hey guys! check yourselves! it is really easy to fall into misogyny especially with gay shipping. though i will argue that buddie shippers could stand to do the same thing (looking at you, people who write fanfic where ana flores is ableist for no reason)

they went on, however, to say that bucktommy shippers Must only like bucktommy because they are a gay ship, And Also Therefore, these people Must Be gay fetishists, as the only reason you would like bucktommy over buddie is because you just want to see men make out with each other. You People don't like gay shipping in the Correct way that i do, you like to gay ship in a nasty fetish way (only slightly exaggerating). you saw that buck and tommy kissed online and you watched the entire show just to watch men make out with each other which is Bad And Wrong.

aside from the fact that this person also literally started watching the show after 7x4 aired (and like i said so did a lot of people. one would think this is a morally neutral thing to do), this struck a nerve with me. this take (which was repeated ad nauseam by everyone in their circle) is just plainly irresponsible.

it is inappropriate to suggest that someone is like. morally reprehensible for *checking my notes* shipping a canon television couple. is tim minear a gay fetishist for writing the bucktommy kiss? is the average viewer a gay fetishist for going "oh i didn't see that coming! they seem like a nice couple"? is my mom a gay fetishist? are you calling my mom a gay fetishist??

this is an argument that i've seen happen in a billion different ways over the past decade and a half of being in fandom spaces by the way. are women allowed to read gay fanfiction? what about gay porn? what if they get off to it? are they allowed to write it themselves? what if they're not straight? what if they're not women? was casey mcquiston fetishizing gay men when they wrote red white and royal blue? is the romance genre allowed to exist with gay men and straight women in it? do you have to check everyone's gender or sexual identity at the login page for ao3 and tumblr dot com to determine if it is morally okay for them to participate in fandom at all?

and then there was the comparisons between bucktommy and buddie fic stat breakdowns: bucktommy's are writing more smut And That's Bad and buddie fans are writing stories with plot And That's Good.

it. is. irresponsible. it is oversimplifying. it is judgmental and above all else it is irrelevant. people could like bucktommy because they think they're hot or because they think theyre interesting or because buck realized he was bisexual or because they think tommy has potential as a character. it is a ship. creating a dichotomy where one ship is the morally good thing to ship and one ship is the morally bad thing to ship is irresponsible and not in the spirit of fandom.

morality and purity conversations in fandom are like. an entirely different can of worms to talk about and this is going to be long enough already. but bucktommy shippers shot back with the same energy:

if you don't like bucktommy then you are homophobic because tommy is gay

i did see quite a bit of this argument because a number of people that id been following did get into bucktommy and i do still follow and like these people

i covered most of my feelings about this type of argument above but to reiterate: it is possible to like different ships without making it a morality competition. it's disingenuous and annoying.

especially that brief stint where people were saying that the bucktommy shipname was a slur against gay men. you can just not like it. you can just not like it and have it end there. it's an ugly shipname but you don't have to make it a moral issue.

especially because then buddie shippers pulled out the trump card:

4. the tommy problem

because these people just watched the entire show in like four weeks (again, neutral statement, i did the same fucking thing) they remember tommy from hen and chimney begins. and. okay

i'm not about to be taken out of context here. i watched bp's video when it came out, i think what was said was wrong, i'm not about to say that being racist was like. cool or excusable 20 years ago. i think there is a discussion to be had here about this though. there's a reason i'm typing this out carefully:

i want to say firstly that there IS a conversation to be had about the social landscape in 2005 and especially pre-obama america for the purposes of a bunch of 20 years olds who were not alive or fully conscious yet. people told casually racist jokes (casual in that they are told casually without intent for violence, not that they are not violent. all racism is violence) and there were fewer social ramifications for those racist jokes in 2005. that does not make them Magically Not Racist. they were. it was not okay. it was, however, Extremely Common. does that make it okay? no.

i'm saying that largely because it seems to ME that tim or whoever wrote that particular episode wrote that joke to paint a picture of where the characters are in the story. chimney is not under bobby. he is not being treated with respect. he is 15 years in the past (from when the episode aired. whatever) it is different. it wasn't supposed to matter who said it

(it did matter and it does matter that it's tommy who said it by the way. because that's like. the universe of the show)

(though my theory - and i'm just being stupid for a sec indulge me it's 3am - is that tim and ryan both LOVE writing in guys named tommy. seriously i've been rewatching glee and when i watched 911 i noticed this too that there are so many characters that we never even meet named tommy. abby's ex for one. my theory is that tim wanted to bring in some guy named tommy for buck's awakening and he realized he already had one. lol.)

SECONDLY. sorry that was longwinded. secondly, i am a person who believes that people are capable of change. 20 years is a long time to grow. even as an adult. again, this does not excuse racism, but it is important anyway.

this is all theoretical but i want you to walk with me: it is possible for a 20-30 year old closeted gay white man with a homophobic captain pre-obama to pick up and not experience consequences for inappropriate comments and casual racism and even be seeking out a parent-like validation from someone who encourages it AND THEN, after 20 years wherein he realizes he's gay, comes out of the closet, i believe it is POSSIBLE for him to unpack his internalized racism, apologize, and grow as a person

obviously these are fictional characters but it is important to my fucking philosophy of life that people are capable of change and having empathy or understanding that in fictional characters is so fucking baseline.

it is important that we as a society can agree that someone's behavior, ideology, and/or biases can change. that like. that just HAS to be possible.

caveat #1 that does not mean that any people of color who are fans of the show have to like tommy or even forgive him (or even like. hen and chim lmao it's kind of clear to me that at least hen doesn't) and i am not going to tell them to

caveat #2 i also understand that there is no explicit acknowledgment of this on screen (i think this is because tim forgot which i find funny but like i said. it still matters that it's tommy regardless of intent) and because of that there technically is nothing To forgive

ALL OF THAT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

even if we are assuming that tommy has learned nothing and has not changed at all. the leap from "tommy is/was racist" to "shipping bucktommy or finding tommy interesting Makes You Racist" is heinous to me.

sometimes people like characters who are shitty people. some of you like tony stark. sorry

it's ridiculous to me because there are plenty of other reasons to dislike bucktommy that doesn't like. vilify random people on the internet. he's not even framed as a particularly good boyfriend! we don't even know if they're boyfriends, for one thing!

i've been complaining about buddie shippers for this entire time but i literally am one of you and that's what pisses me off. you threw the first blow in the morality competition and you are bigger - and you KNOW you are bigger because you are proud of the fact - and you are winning.

you are right about a lot of it: tommy isn't a good guy. there is an active racism problem in this fandom. there is a misogyny problem in this fandom. but by and large buddie shippers have been in the game longer and have much larger followings and there is nasty shit i'm seeing which brings me to

5. social media discourse 2 electric boogaloo: twitter edition

twitter is a cesspool in the best of times but i have seen some shit in the past two weeks that makes me never want to write fanfiction for this fandom or even interact with most of the fans ever again. and i'm serious

there is a big buddie fanfic writer who is like. beloved. if you read buddie fanfiction you've read their work for sure. they started writing bucktommy and buddietommy fics around april. and people are being so nasty about them on twitter it is actually fucking embarrassing.

AND LIKE. god. fandom etiquette is so simple.

when i first started reading buddie fanfic the first thing i noticed was how many fics are locked. and i was like "i wonder why that is"

just look at these tweets. i have kept the author's handle here uncensored but please be normal do not bother this person. i'm sure their ao3 comments are hell enough already

what the fuck is your people's problem i'm serious

i'm like actually appalled. this is embarrassing. this isn't even the most embarrassing thing i've seen buddie stans do recently and it is NOT uncommon. it is not small accounts. you guys are the majority. these tweets have hundreds of likes.

i don't give a shit what this person was writing. i actually don't care. their fics are locked. they write for free.

to take someone's fic outside ao3 is considered bad fandom etiquette. to talk about an author where they don't have an account is generally considered bad fandom etiquette. to complain about fanfiction openly is bad fandom etiquette. i don't care if this is y'all's first fandom. in what world are you going to take to twitter and openly complain about someone writing fanfiction for a ship you don't like.

if i were them i would delete all of the buddie fics or never write buddie again i'm so serious. this is so ridiculous.

and this is sort of the nail in the coffin for me, seeing this tweet the other day:

this tweet has over a thousand likes

this is a larger fandom issue as of recent with the use of like. mental health terms as insults but it actually fucking disgusts me!

i looked at mark's twitter. it's pretty clear to me that he's a troll/having fun/provoking people on purpose but on TOP of that his tweets get at most 35 likes. i checked and this tweet got 21 likes. and over a thousand likes calling him schizophrenic. 24 replies doubling down. 25 retweets. 47 quote tweets. 62 bookmarks. over a thousand likes.

and buddie shippers are the good guys

it is ridiculous to me that as a fandom buddie shippers have created a space where it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about fandom misogyny, racism, of homophobia because everyone who disagrees with you is morally opposed to you, and yet it is this side of the fandom with enough traction and support to openly bully and mock these people that you have decided are morally reprehensible.

6. in conclusion i'm sorry i know no one read this

fandom in general post-covid has become less of a community based in sharing creativity and the love of something (and i know this intimately as a kpop stan lol). online spaces in general have become something i don't recognize or want to participate in. which sucks. i've been here for a long time.

i know there's not really any way for that group of like 5 or so tiktokers that complain about tommy ad nauseam to see this or even take it seriously. i know there's not any way for those people on twitter to magically understand fandom etiquette or just block the people they don't want to see.

everyone would be happier if they just. blocked and moved on. i know i would. and i have! in a lot of cases. there's a reason i blocked out the names on those tweets (note: i blocked mark's twitter handle. the person who screenshotted it so he wouldn't be notified and then called them schizophrenic did not. because they do not care) because it's not about THEM it's about the whole fucking thing.

and a lot of these people want to be mad. it's why they're so hung up on tommy. like i'm sorry if any bucktommy fan is still reading this but GOD TOMMY HAS BEEN ON SCREEN FOR LIKE TEN MINUTES TOTAL IN THE ENTIRE SHOW. HE DOESN'T EVEN MATTER. JUST ADMIT THIS IS ABOUT A SHIP WAR. IT ISN'T ABOUT HOW GOOD OF A PERSON YOU ARE OR ANYONE IS. IT'S JUST A SHIP WAR. and they want to be miserable. they want to sit in their little echochamber of morally upright big name fans and they want to provoke bucktommy fans into saying something shitty and they love it because they don't really fucking care about the show.

you know how i know? because tommy is the least important part of chimney begins. that is in the best 3 episodes of this entire television show and none of y'all have anything to say about it. because you're just as obsessed with tommy as they are.

[longing-for-rain]

I think you're wrong saying that zutara is a ship exclusively by women for women while kataang is only liked by sexist men. There's a lot of support for zutara on site like 4chan of all places. If anything, men prefer to self insert as the "giga Chad" zuko than the "beta male" aang

Meanwhile the vast majority of kataang fanart I've seen where drawn by women, just like zutara.

I never said that it’s exclusively shipped by women, just that women tend to prefer it.

And you’re right, but you’re biased based on where you’re looking. Male dominated sites like 4chan are exactly that…male dominated. Any fandom stuff you find there is almost certain to be created by men. You’ll also find that the way men interact with fandom is either very canon centric or fetishistic. I’ve actually run into some of those “giga Chad Zuko” types and the funny thing about them is, some of them hadn’t even watched the show. It was based on appearances only, and yeah, knowing nothing about the characters, men will often choose to self insert as the manly hot one for their nasty rule34 fantasies. You’ll also just as commonly see kataang (I’ve seen some absolutely disgusting kataang shit), as well as Zuko shipped with every other female character (including his mother and sister) in those types of environments because it’s purely appearance based. It’s just a bunch of creepy men drawing their self insert with their crush.

On the flip side, (non-pornographic) fan art is almost always drawn by women, especially if you’re on a site like tumblr or twitter. That’s true for any ship.

What I have noticed, however, is that on forums like Reddit that are also very male centered, kataang is always most popular. And it’s very easy to see why—Aang as a character was literally designed for young boys to project onto. He represents a character the target demographic of the show in 2005 (young boys) are supposed to relate to. This also results in the (male) writers giving him “relatable” struggles such as not being liked back by a crush. Her feelings aren’t centered because they are not relatable nor important to this target demographic. Then, these men who saw the show as boys grow up and retain that relatability aspect, and feel somehow emasculated by the idea of “the girl” choosing a different man. This is why kataang has historically been criticized as a male centered ship, because the whole dynamic and narrative surrounding it is based around this male fantasy of bothering your crush and being such a NiceGuy that she *has* to like you back eventually. Like I said, it was literally written that way, to be relatable to middle school aged boys.

Female kataang shippers are a whole other can of worms, but let’s just say they’re basically the BoyMoms of fandom. My precious baby can do no wrong, he’s a literal angel, nothing is ever his fault, telling him no is bullying, girls who get upset with him are just lying b*tches trying to destroy his life, etc. etc.

[agentrouka-blog]

I agree with your take on “I want my bride back”, a very logical explanation. But then you put on shippers’ gogles and write analysis on “sansa looked radiant” or “it would be so sweet” through romantic perspective that’s not there in the narrative. why is it ok to analyze something from a platonic angle and then analyse a similar thing (much more toned down in its nature) from a romantic angle? don’t you see how faulty it is?

You know, you could just go "I disagree! Good for me!" and move on?

The focus on "radiant" is usually joking in nature, though the parallel to Jaime describing Cersei that way is amusing. It exists not as "proof" but as a sweet augmentation to the sum of hints that form the jonsa hypothesis.

And "it would be so sweet to see him once again but of course that could never be" does kind of beg the reader to suspect it to be subverted. So sweet. But again, this does not exist alone. It exists in alongside the parallels in their "romantic" (actually abusive) plotlines, their matching visions of marriage and children, their exclusive "blood of Winterfell" lines and thematic connection to ownership and rebuilding of the castle, their king and queenship foreshadowing, their incest allusions, their romantic natures, their sole status as Starks of the age and inclination to continue the Stark line, their competing claims that recall another Sansa and Jon(nel) Stark, romantic dragon imagery in Sansa's chapters, parallels between Jon and Sansa's suitors, the Ashford tourney parallels, Jon's romantic appreciation for Sansa's qualities... The Jonsa hypothesis isn't exactly leaning on two lines of text. There's a lot of evidence.

None of that needs to convince you, but the "hypocrisy!" accusations are at this point frankly boring.

[mare-sanguis]

The queercoding in Sangcheol's and Jeongwoo's relationship

Let me preface this by saying: everyone is still allowed to see them as whatever they want (a work related relationship, best friends, close friends, soulmates, lovers, and and and) but I think most (if not all at least here on tumblr) can agree it would be ignorant if we completely overshadow just how much queerness there is.

This analysis is brough to you by this thread (why JW is snow white and why SC is the prince) and @thedevildeer latest post. Its not structured and really just a ramble so excuse me if it might sound a little confusing at some points.

Let's start by looking at it through a heteronormative kdrama lense below the cut 

How often do most kdrama fans watch a drama, see the lead man and the lead woman and think "woah, they would look so hot as a couple" even when the drama isn't a romance? Quite often, that's right. That's because most M/F leads are designed to be shipped even outside of the stereotypical romance genre. If it's a crime drama, thriller, mystery etc. Where the focus should solely lie on the plot they will still most likely try to create an M/F duo so most kdrama fans will have something to latch into. It has happened so many times that people dropped a non romance drama because it had no M/F couple, but people apparently want it so badly because how else can they enjoy a non romance drama, right? And kdrama directors/writers know this- they see and read the reviews and work with them; That's why in kdrama land M/F ships are still the norm, still seen as the most canon- even if there is a 2nd ML who has insane chemistry with the 1st ML (perhaps even more than the FL, cuz let's also face it in a lot of kdramas women are written flat)

When the ML is near the FL, everyone immediately interprets all kinds of thoughts into it, even worse when they go as far as to look at each other and hold eye contact, when they worry about each other, support each other, visit each other or are just having a work related conversation. They dont need to confess their love or kiss for the viewer to know they are in love*

Those are all valid points for shipping, that's obivously not the issue- The issue starts when they genuinely can't see the FL as her own character, when they can't seem to understand that men and women can be platonic friends, the issue continues when the 2nd ML appears whos got way more chemistry with the 1st ML or even takes the place of where the FL should be. Its then where the issue peaks- their relationship will automatically treated differently (2nd ML get potentially hated by the M/F shippers even) and it creates rift within the fandom, its shipping and arguments about queerness as a whole (discrediting that queerness is a large spectrum) by cishet fans

Suddenly, if it's M/M those actions I mentioned earlier dont seem romantic anymore, suddenly it's just a simple bromance (and while the term per se isnt homophobic, in these circumstances it sure sounds like it which is why I personally dont like it and rarely use it), best friends caring about each other because homies are homies. ("why can't men stay friends?" we all know that argument) *if they don't confess to each other outright, don't kiss each other, then they aren't i love (last part especially is targeted towards specific BL fans who only think a relationship is valed if they kiss and maje out)

So, this out the way let take a look at SC, JW, HS and BO approach (intentionally or not) on queercoding and the importance of a strong man-woman friendship.

First, let's look at tropes commonly (but not exclusively) found in queer media or media that tries to imply queerness and the similarities they share with SCJW:

Found family (the most common trope in queer media, especially the media that emphasises on realness, as found family serves as a safe space for queer characters when they arent accepted at home)

A strong opposite gender friendship or a friendship that defies traditional views

Color coding (mostly a warm and a cold colour, often times its blue and red)

Language coding (do the characters say they are queer, do they use specific terms, do they confess or declare their love for each other through something deeper; just what are they saying?)

The character design (this is not just about how they look but the desgin as a whole: background story, family, friendships, career, driving force, are they representing something (like a specific color, a flower); what was the creators thought process while creating them)

How do they express love around the person they ador (for example, men express love with touches while women often times use words and actions)

Broken friendships (because old friends dont accept)

Then of course we have common tropes found in all media highlighting love

Clothes sharing

Intense eye contact

Personal space

Lingering

Caring

Hurt/Comfort

Touches

And what do we have here? That's right. Black out s well as SC, JW and HS fit right into the common tropes and the queercoding tropes and yet we see some totally discrediting its validity to exist within the universe because god forbid both JW and SC are queer or viewed as such cuz they both were with women prior and they can't possibly be one of them queers... right?

HS is a really well written female character who's got nuances, a great backstory with a fair share of suffering and the additional nosiness which makes her so special. She is sweet and caring to everyone who seems nice in her eyes. She cares about JW's mother (prior to knowng he's JW's mother so thers no point in saying she does it cuz of JW), cares about Suoh and is genuinely interested in his hobbies. Her character takes care of everyone because she's a med student (you can take a med's job away, but you can never take the job out of a med). This is what her character is about- taking care, worrying. Her purpose in Mucheon was (as we know by ep.13) to find what shes looking for, to find her way back. She is by no means not connected to eithe JW and SC but her story is canonically detached from both JW's and SC's- it takes part in a different pace, in a different setting and through a different lense and most of it happens off screen or throug her observig the people. We rarely get any of her POV's, unless it's either around Suoh or Geonoh. The other times when we do get a POV of her is when SC and JW and in the same frame. Then she is postitioned as the onlooker, the one who observes. When she is alone with JW she gets almost no POV, even less that focuses on her feelings towards him. But the most important thing I said already: her story is detached from SCJW. She grows alone unlike SCJW who grow together. She is that friendship JW needed to show him a part of humanity that got lost with his fake friends. She is to represent and tell that you do not need a large group of friends to feel at home. 

Then there is JW. Beautifully written full of nuances, a tragic yet amazing written backstory- easily to read as a story of someone being queer. A big group of friends, a beautiful home with loving parents and then you got the catalysator which sets the whole plot moving. While for JW it's murder, abuse, gaslighting by friends and people he thought were family, prison and finding new hope in humanity through one person- how can one not look at this and think "yeah it's somewhat reminiscent of someone coming out in a conservative country with traditional family values"? Family and friends ditching before the person can even stand up for themselves, people spreading venomous lies, all the guilt trips, that person shutting themselfs off retreating into their own little world. JW was obviously never meant to be read as such and some even might find this part weird, but it's undeniable he has those classic queercoding tropes. He finds true meaning in humanity again through HS and SC at the same time, yes, but it is SC alone who stands by his side the whole time- every single day. JW feels the safest around SC, falls asleep in his home (therefore also in his presence) and gives in to being taken care of only when SC is around, he also laughs at his dumbs jokes and makes sure to catch his reactions when he is sassy (handing out flyers scene or the scene at the scrapyard). JW is meant to not grow alone but together with someone else- and that someone is SC. who he shares the exact same pain with. He sees the good in people- he sees the good in SC so he keeps on pursuing him even when he would reject him. Because he can see himself in him. Because he feels he's different- just like him. (And isnt it like: Queer people know someone is queer when they see one?). We cannot forget him being a metaphor for Snow White which imo solidifies the queercoding in him even more and how he steps in to save SC and then again to support him by beating up those debt collectors. (Also, just a random little side note: I think it's funny how he's either loved or hated, there was no inbetween. BM and MS hated him, they were eaten up by jealousy; BY, NG, DE and the twins loved him (also again, random side note to me any anyone who cares: it's so easy to read the feelings GO felt towards JW prior and post time skip as more than just friendship tbh which again, adds to the queerness layer))

And then there is SC, just as complex and full of nuances like JW. Having an almost identical tragic backstory to hm even- losing the love of his life. While hes story is way more difficult to decipher as queercoding, his character is most definitely not. He is portrayed as rude and rough towards any criminal and at the beginning of the story we genuienly dont know where we stand with him with this ever fluxuating personality. He is hurt, struggles, doesn't even seem to know himself very well, has seen a lot and he also doesnt trust anyone (as seen when he immediately clocks BM as suspicious when the review the CCTV footage) except JW. How come he trusts him more, even after he had accused him of the hit and run accident, but is side eying everyone the moment the incident with the mother happens? When he should have more trust in his own people then defending and caring for a guy whos accused him of causing the car accident. Even when he finds out JW apparently killed the girls, his actions towards him are differet than the actions we see him taking against the guy he chases after in the beginning. We see him falter and struggle even more in the manhole when he's threatening to shoot JW, we see it again when they are at the shed and JW is reinacting the murder scene- he is reluctant. Even when using violence against JW. Because, just like him, SC feels they are the same. And it doesn't even take much time for him to switch side- we can see him questioning everything onwards from from episode 4 during their first team dinner. And when he switches side he suddenly becomes so soft and caring- completely taking on the role of a possible love interest in both drama, romance and fairytale. Because he has seen the good in JW, saw the same suffering, this unfair treatment. He is a character not meant to grow alone but together and this togethes is only JW. JW still has HS by his side but in SC's world there was only JW who shows him all aspects of what it means to be a good human being. It's through him he grows. 

Their shared journey:

To quote Leo Buscaglia again "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

And isn't this what SC's and JW's shared bond is about? How they grow with and around each other- thanks to each other.

The little things SC does to make JW more comfortable, to show him love still exists? He takes him home without thinking twice because he's worried he might get sick when he could've taken him back to his house. He dresses him up in his clothes, let him sleep on his couch, in his blankets, gives him something warm to eat and drink (the glass of milk will never stop making me sob), showers him in touches and shows him warmth through them, always reaching after him because he's afraid something might happen to him, watches out for him, observes his reactions and waits for him. The little things JW does to SC- giving him a reality check that not everything is as it seems, graduately bringing back his old personality, stays by his side.

It's how SC brings JW's smile back and how JW brings SC's smile back. Its how SC not once but twice declares his worries, adoration and love towards JW: once when he's so worried sick JW might get hurt so he installs that app on his phone and the second time when they say their "goodbyes"- those words are so easy to read, so full of love. The "if you move" highlighting just how much he wants and hopes JW to stay in his life a little longer. It's longing and we can clearly hear it in his voice when he says "I'm sure you can" right after the monologue and then tilts his head. It's how JW doesn't know how to approach him after this, contemplating what to do and then goes on for the hug first. This is JW's way of showing his love. 

And yet, despite it all there are still people who only see it as a bromance. Those who think JW and HS will end up together because they are at the same uni, study the same. And are a man and a woman. If either SC or JW would be a woman, no one would even bat an eye to think they aren't in love- no one would even come up with the idea to even ship JW and HS. If one of them was a woman, every little gesture would be seen as romantic, betting on it the drama would perhaps even be a lot more popular as well as the ship. It's so disheartening to see how many deny an obvious queercoding between them just because they are men and for the sake of a straight, not well manouvred, ship because again apparenlty many kdrama fans don't dare to ship queer.

We know Black Out/Snow white must die is a fairytale because it very much is just one of many iterations of a snow white and exactly because is one of many nothing is impossible and queerness is allowed to exist within it.

[hamspamandjamsandwich]

The animators were Kurahi shippers and you can’t change my mind: exhibit A

Enthusiastic reading-too-much-Kurahi-but-not-really into the animation~

From episodes 68 & 69, “Setting the Trap” and “The Power of Taboo”

So anyone creative that writes or draws or what have you can tell you that everything actually is intentional, and by that I mean, every word you pick to write and every design or illustration you make is a choice. We make choices, we decide, and then those things are up for interpretation.

All of that is to say: I think these animators were kurahi shippers or something man, there's an interesting visual in these two episodes that happens repeatedly. pls don’t judge me for my intense meta bullshit that’s about occur lol

When Kaito is about to take Hiei’s soul, he looks down at him, and we see a violet colored flash in his glasses.

After he takes his soul, it’s encased in that same shade of purple. We know from earlier episodes and later on when their souls are returned that souls don’t have a color, they’re just white/translucent, so that means Kaito color-coded the souls by his own volition. Purple for Hiei, blue for Botan, and yellow for Kuwabara.

What’s interesting is…this purple color/flashes of purple light don’t go away. They’re present during Kurama’s battle of wits with Kaito and their negotiation of the terms.

Now someone might say, “well Hiei’s soul is positioned on the rightmost side and the purple visually stands out better, it makes sense it would show, it doesn’t mean anything.” And perhaps they’re right, but I don’t think so.

Again, these things are intentional choices, regardless of whether or not what they mean is agreed upon. They chose to make Hiei’s that color, they chose to position it to the side, and they chose to use it for this visual effect.

Most important to note: this visual choice is only done for Hiei’s color, purple. There’s no ambient light in the room and it’s the exact same color, ergo very intentionally done. They don’t rotate between colors, they never show flashes of blue or yellow or all three—it’s only purple.

⬆️ here for example. Arguably we should be able to see the blue and yellow reflected in his glasses, too. But we don’t. Just that fuchsia color. Just Hiei’s soul.

So what does it mean (to me)?

I think it means that Hiei is most important to him, and somehow Kaito has clocked that. Hiei’s soul is the one reflected in Kaito’s glasses while they negotiate the rules of their game.

And it’s only reflected/shown in his eyes when he’s looking at kurama (other than Hiei prior to the soul stealing!), not anywhere in the room, which is what makes me think that Kaito knows how significant the relationship between Kurama and Hiei is. He (literally in a visual sense) can see it. These flashes happen the most/almost exclusively during this scene—as if he’s dangling Hiei’s soul specifically to bait Kurama into playing his game.

It’s symbolic of how meaningful the relationship is to him, because it’s shown like it’s the bargaining chip to make the game happen. When he taunts Kurama that he still hasn’t made his choice, the reflection is there again. The significance is only emphasized by the fact that it doesn’t happen with anyone else’s soul/color.

Additionally, I like that Kaito’s hand is hovering over Hiei’s soul when Kurama threatens to erase him from reality. I don’t think this is strong evidence or anything, but it compliments my theory here quite nicely lol.

Bonus (aka this doesn’t really have evidentiary support but hey it rolls with this pretty well): look at how mad Kurama is after Hiei’s soul is taken. Angry husband.

TLDR: they knew wtf they were doing with this man YOU CANT MAKE ME BELIEVE OTHERWISE

[antianakin]

You’ve talked a little about ships before but mainly in the context of how that is connected with the/a specific Jedi. And also a bit about ships you don’t like

But in Star Wars as a whole what’s your favourite ship, which one do you think is the best, and which one do you think is the most compelling?

(I know that the answer to all three could be the same but for me personally there’s often little overlap in these things so ymmv)

Also which ship do you think has the most potential?

I'll assume that canon and fanon are both options here.

"My Favorite" is the easiest to answer, so I'll start there. I've made an entire fic rec list for it and made no secret of the fact that I really like Codywan. Star Wars wasn't a fandom I really did any shipping in when I first was introduced to it as a kid. It wasn't until I decided to get back into Star Wars a little as an adult that I was even introduced to the IDEA of Codywan as a ship, but once I discovered it, it had me absolutely hooked. I will admit that I have a hard time with reading Codywan fics these days and interacting with other Codywan shippers because I often end up feeling like my interpretation of the characters is very different than the norm and what I want from the relationship - the thing that makes it compelling to me - isn't the same as most other people who enjoy the ship. But it was my first Star Wars ship and I still really enjoy the version of Codywan that exists in my head, so it will continue to claim the title of favorite.

For "Most Compelling" and "The Best" I'm actually going to exclusively define those as being IN CANON because anything in fanon can be compelling depending on how well someone writes it. I could obviously put Codywan down for both of these categories, but it would specifically be MY version of Codywan, the version that only really exists in my own head, and not necessarily the more popular version of them in the fandom.

I'm going to give "The Best" and "Most Compelling" to Jyn and Cassian from Rogue One. I will readily admit that, as someone who identifies as aroace, the fact that Jyn and Cassian never do or say anything explicitly romantic to each other is a major part of the reason I like them. I also personally believe it's the reason they're so compelling. Without being able to use any of the usual narrative shortcuts that romance tends to provide, Jyn and Cassian's dynamic relies on actually showing the two of them connecting with each other on a deeper level. I love how so much of their relationship with each other exists only in their eyes, in the way that they look at each other (whether the other person is looking back or not). I love the way their relationship comes through in-between the lines rather than stated out loud. I love the subtlety that exists for Jyn and Cassian in a way it doesn't for pretty much any other more "canon" ship.

I have also said before (though I'm not entirely certain I did it on this blog or not) that I really like angst, usually in the form of hurt/comfort but a good tragedy sometimes just hits the spot. Jyn and Cassian living in a "maybe," existing in a perpetual "what could have been," is so fucking sweet to me. That shit hurts JUST RIGHT. I love the idea that these two people meant everything to each other but only in the last few days before they died and they never even got to explore what exactly that could be. Their love is shown in how they impacted each other, the ways their relationship changed each other, because that's all they ever had time for. I fucking love that shit. The ambiguity of Jyn and Cassian's relationship is what makes it the most compelling to me and I think that the fact that they never get together forced the writers to show us they loved each other in far more interesting and nuanced ways than usually exist for couples that more explicitly get together on screen.

And finally, my choice for "Most Potential" is FinnRey. I really liked Finn and Rey's dynamic in TFA, I liked the way they both learned to rely on each other when they'd never had anyone to rely on before, the way they were able to escape their respective prisons and take their first steps into a larger world together. I liked the theme of coming back for each other no matter what, of reaching out for each other so they couldn't be separated, and the idea of shared fate where they would become the hero of the story TOGETHER. Obviously we all know how that dynamic got sidelined and ignored after TFA, but both characters are still alive and definitely have more story to tell, so the potential remains. Whether that potential ever actually goes anywhere, even if it's just in things like novels and comics, is still super up in the air. But I think these two could have an incredible dynamic if anyone was willing to give them the time of day.