#lilith and philip parallels

[sepublic]

In further hindsight I can see the parallels in Belos agonizing over how he mistreated Caleb and Lilith agonizing over how she mistreated Eda, and both trying to make up for that. But both crucially missing the actual emotional crux of the issue, that being the people they disregarded and hurt, the people close to that sibling and their real family for accepting them.

Because even if Lilith got to explain how the curse was an accident to Eda during Agony of a Witch, so what? That wasn’t why Eda was there. That wasn’t why she was so royally pissed. It was for kidnapping Luz, which would still remain unaddressed. Not to mention how unlike the curse, Lilith knowingly refused to listen to Eda about her lifestyle and choices, she still supported the coven over her sister, she still belittled Eda over the curse and was making another decision for her.

So even if Lilith did cure Eda, if Belos could actually undo the work of an Archivist and chose to? Eda would still hate Lilith and everything she stood for. She stands down from attacking Lilith in the season finale not because Lilith didn’t mean the curse, but because King clarifies she’s actually changing her general behavior by helping him and Luz. Even if Belos could bring back Caleb, his insistence on making his clones into witch hunters, ignoring Caleb’s defense of the isles, choosing to support Gravesfield’s bigotry over a brother who’d been for him much longer and actually loved him unconditionally… Insisting on ‘saving’ a perfectly happy sibling? That will always be a problem.

Maybe Philip made an exception for Caleb, at first; He knew at least of Caleb’s first meeting with Evelyn. So even if the rest were secret due to Evelyn being targeted by the community, Philip still didn’t rat on his brother for exploring the Demon Realm. Part of it may have been the insistence that Caleb could be ‘saved’, but he did the bare minimum of not getting his brother killed for one trip.

(But then Caleb ‘went too far’ and committed miscegenation, made Philip related to a witch; A conservative shame so deep he refuses to address it when discussing a vague ‘betrayal’. Like real life families, Philip rewrote Caleb as a Black Sheep to not be discussed, for ‘tarnishing’ the bloodline; A scandal replaced, eventually lost to time with nobody left to truly mourn the person they were. Maybe there doesn’t need to be, not anymore; His wife and child remembered and maybe they didn’t mention he was a human because to Caleb, that no longer mattered and he renounced that background like many queer folk, to embrace an identity shared with others who did care. So they remembered Caleb the witch.)

Likewise, Lilith also looked the other way for Eda, ignored multiple opportunities to arrest Eda, removed wanted posters. But there was still the expectation that their ‘grace’ would be reciprocated, that eventually it would pay off in that loved one coming over. Or at least that’s what Lilith hoped, but it was definitely what Philip expected of Caleb; Because Lilith only took Luz hostage because Philip threatened to execute her otherwise. Eda’s health WAS at risk from the curse.

Philip killed a Caleb who was happy and safe when he’d been at least five years away from Gravesfield, in a world they couldn’t follow and wouldn’t be much of a threat in anyway, if at all; He did it because Caleb did not live up to that expectation. With Lilith, we know it was an accident and she did make legitimate amends to undo the curse, unlike Belos who kept killing Caleb again and again, with the Collector suggesting he’s using the Grimwalkers as a punching bag and no longer cares about saving them either.

Lilith never cared much for the (wild) witch hunting aspect of the position; She just wanted to be loved but she didn’t want people to be torn down for it. She was a teacher, a bad one but still. Even if she had yet to care about others outside of Eda and how her ideology was wrong for its harm, she at least used her love for Eda as a stepping stone; When her sister was almost executed as a wild witch, Lilith declared an intention to prevent any more petrifications, after preciously being shown looking the other way with them.

Despite her justified fears of Belos, Lilith wanted to do something because having it happen to a loved one made her finally empathize. Lilith used that love to listen to Eda and reconsider her own biases, for Eda at least. And she ended up caring for and loving Eda’s kids and friends and everything she stood for, too; She ended up doing things for them, too. Lilith cared about doing it for her sister, which is why she listened to and accepted her, instead of caring for the sake of creating an Eda that wasn’t Eda; Lilith got over her pride, that’s the difference in the end.

[stanlunter]

"Parallels between Clawthorne sisters & Wittebane brothers aren't real, they can't hurt you"

Parallels between Clawthorne sisters & Wittebane brothers:

Train together for a dream job:

Jealous third wheel:

Betrayal:

"I love you no matter what, bro":

"- Im sorry, bro - You’re not my bro anymore":

[findmeinthefallair]

*brain continues to chew on the deliberate neatness of these*

[oxblooddraws]

Moths ago I did a swap au that I unfortunately forgot about it, until I recently saw some old unfinished wips on my folder… But, I didn’t like some things about it so I redrew and rewrote some aspects of it. More explanation under the cut.

Ok, just like before the Boiling Isles are afraid of the humans and the human realm in general, as they believe that humans are vile and evil creatures that want the destruction of witch kind so, they try to not have any connections with.

The people of the isles have perpetually stayed in a 15th, 16th century lifestyle for centuries.

The Boiling isles have been ruled by the empire for 400 years. Who tries to secure the peace of the isles by destroying or foreclosing every human artifact that comes on the Boiling isles and everyone that gets caught of even possessing the smallest one are branded as criminals and sentenced to a lifelong prison or worse execution.

Lilith and Eda are the second in Command to the Emperor and capture anyone that violates the law.

Philip and the Collector are living in the outskirts of the word in the forest with the Bat Queen and the other Palismen. Philip is known to people as the Palisman Keeper, mysterious being that scares away anyone that dares to go into the forest.

Luz gets to the Boiling isles accidentally by a titan blood pool in Gravesfield and after a while she stumbles into Philip and TC, who take her and try to find a way to get her back home. So Luz tries “blend in” as witch named “Luzura” . But, unfortunately for her a rumour that a human has appeared in the Boiling isles has already spread…

This au is going to have a different name than previously had,but I haven’t thought anything yet, so for now it’s vague.

I also may delete the old au later on..

[history-stan]

Bill on the Boiling Isles AU: Mabel and Luz parallels+Bill and Belos parallels

Okay, so I brought up in my AU overview post how Luz and Mabel have a lot of similarities in their personalities and interests. However, there's another character parallel that I didn't bring up because it was a BIG spoiler for The Owl House, so I'm going to go more in-depth under the cut:

Both Mabel and Luz were tricked by their respective main villains into helping them with their plans.

Mabel, as we all know, didn't want Dipper and her to be separated. Blendin, someone who Mabel thought she could trust, approached Mabel and told her that he could make summer last longer if she gave him the rift (remember, she didn't even know what the rift did, so she couldn't have known what would come next). However, when she hands Blendin the rift, it's revealed that Bill was possessing him the whole time. Bill breaks the rift, and Weirdmaggedon starts.

Now, Luz. At the end of season 1, Luz destroyed the portal to the human realm, so she's trying to find a way to build a new portal door. Her biggest lead is Philip Wittebane, a human who was stranded on the Boiling Isles back in the 1660s. Luz travels back in time to ask him for help, and at first, he seems pretty nice. Luz decides to help him find a powerful being known as the Collector in exchange for making a portal door. However, Philip ends up betraying her, and so Luz travels back forward in time, and they never cross paths again... or so Luz thinks. A few episodes later, Luz ends up in Emperor Belos' mindscape, and it's revealed that not only is Emperor Belos the same person as Philip Wittebane, but also that the Collector was the key to Belos finding out how to commit a full-scale genocide on everyone on the Boiling Isles—and Luz helped him find them.

Luz, obviously, feels immense guilt over this. After all, she loves the Boiling Isles. She's learned magic there, made friends there, it feels like a second home to her, and she ended up aiding someone who wishes to destroy it. She's SO sure that everyone's going to hate her for it, so she refuses to open up to ANYONE about it, save for Eda, Lilith (she was with Luz when they went back in time), King, and in this AU, Bill.

Bill, hearing Luz's experience with Philip, fills him with multiple emotions. At first, he's filled with a sense of understanding—after all, Philip DID betray him, too (in this AU, Bill helped build the portal to the human realm in exchange for Philip building a portal to the Nightmare Realm, but somehow, Philip pulled one over on him)—but it doesn't stop there. He suddenly remembers the time he tricked Mabel into giving him the rift and starting Weirdmaggedon. For the first time, he doesn't look back on Weirdmaggedon fondly—no, he actually feels a ton of guilt and shame. And so, he tells Luz something along the lines of "Look, shooting star, you're not a bad person. Belos is a bad person who manipulated you into getting what he wanted. You thought you could trust him, and he betrayed your trust. If it wasn't you, then it'd end up being someone else. This is not your fault."

Also, I think it's kind of important to note that Bill hasn't ever told anyone except Eda and King about his past, and even then, Eda doesn't exactly believe that he used to be a terrifying dream demon (King does, and he's very happy about it—he finally has a friend who's also a tyrant overlord!), but when he DOES open up to Luz about it (probably during season 3 episode 1), he mentions something about being just like Belos/Philip. Luz, being Luz, tells him, "Well, Belos hasn't tried changing his ways or growing as a person, but you have, so obviously that's not true."

In any case, I yearn for the platonic and/or familial bond Bill & Luz have in this AU.

[welcometogrouchland]

Wait crying again bc I was rewatching The Intruder today (episode 4 of season 1) and I realized that like. The glyphs represent a few things in the narrative but one thing that's consistent is they're always there when Luz doesn't feel like she's good enough on her own. They appear to her as comfort in moments of self depreciation or self doubt, or she coincidentally learns them in episodes where she faces her fear of rejection or makes a mistake (at least this is true in terms of the first four base glyphs she discovers). It's the titans way of saying "you may have to do things differently, but you can do anything they can do" to Luz bc he cares about her

AND THEN. IN WATCHING AND DREAMING. WHEN THE TITAN PASSES ON AND THE GLYPHS DON'T WORK ANYMORE. IT'S BECAUSE NOW LUZ FINALLY FEELS LIKE SHE'S GOOD ENOUGH, ALL ON HER OWN. SHE'S LEARNED THAT SHE HAS INTRINSIC WORTH AS A PERSON AND SHE DOESN'T NEED TO MAKE UP FOR WHO SHE IS. SHE MIGHT DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY BUT SHE CAN DO EVERYTHING ANOTHER WITCH CAN DO- THIS TIME WITH HER OWN, MORE PERSONAL ACCESSIBILITY TOOL (HER PALISMEN) INSTEAD OF THE ONE THE TITAN GAVE HER. MAN!!!!!

[mauselet]

The silly little owl show making me cry again!

Why does my brain randomly realize parallels?! HELP.

[existencebringsonlypain]

More storyboard notes I've noticed!

FOR THE FUTURE

"Sounds uncomfortably familiar". That quote sound ...uh, familiar? Well, it's what Lilith said in Elsewhere and Elsewhen, when talking about Philip.

Intentional? Maybe. I don't think so, but it might be a parallel between him and Lilith.

Hunter also just ... doesn't react to Gus calling him an honorary Hexolio, beyond looking to the right. Gus just kind of accepts it.

HOLLOW MIND

Luz doesn't even laugh at his... Ahem...

"Yelp of fear"... But he still makes this glorious face at her.

Look at that. Prime Hunter content right there.

In the storyboards they made it a LOT more obvious that hunter was confused because he simply ... doesn't have friends. Which I find hilarious.

awww

AWWW (also. NERD)

image limit's fucking me over! Part two

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

The reason why the toh fandom can have such wildly diverging interpretations of the Wittebane story is because the show did not do its job. How old was Philip when Caleb left? Did Caleb truly believe in witch hunting or was he just playing along to what the town expected? Did Caleb ever tell Philip anything? Did he ever talk to his brother and try to change his mind? How long was Philip searching for Caleb? How did he get cursed? How exactly did the knife fight start? Did Philip kill Caleb accidentally or on purpose? Did he kill him only because he married a witch or because he left him? Or both?

The fact is, we don't have definitive answers to any of these. We only have educated guesses based on portraits barely glimpsed in the show that lack any context, Masha's barebones version of events, and Belos' self-justifications. Casual fans shouldn't have to be knee-deep in fandom just to get the main villain's backstory, especially when said story is the literal basis of the whole plot.

Plus, if you're going to spend the final half of your last season barely exploring the villain's origins, only to completely ignore it in the series finale, then you've written a bad ending.

Update: This is getting some notes so I'm including additional thoughts to the original post. The rest will be under the read more:

Just to add onto this because some folks argue that we don’t need his backstory because we already have the essentials or it’s not really important to the plot. The thing is though is that Belos’ story launches the entire plot of the show, his character and motivation are the direct result of actions that happened centuries before the main characters were born. It needs to be depicted and not largely inferred. 

His story is important to creating a more fleshed out character and can strengthen the themes of the show (the rivalry between Eda and Lilith and Luz struggling to fit in at home are parallels to Belos). Instead the show gives little kernels of his story and character that make him more interesting than just Evil Emperor (the fact that the brothers became witch hunters to fit in, the fact that Belos worst memories are of killing Caleb and making grimwalkers are never touched on again). The first (and last) time we see Caleb in a full scene is in For the Future and it has huge implications for the dynamic between the two brothers. But again, nothing is done with it. It seemed like the show was building up that Belos’ lies and self-justifications would lead to his undoing but it doesn’t. So him dying with his ideology and self-delusions intact feels empty.

The worst part of how the Wittebane story is handled is that since it’s largely inferred and you have to be pretty involved in fandom to have a more nuanced take of it, a casual fan can easily just accept other characters’ views on the matter. Masha says “looks like little bro was jealous of big bro” and it undercuts the story of the Wittebanes (to say nothing of the tonal whiplash). The Titan dismisses Belos as only caring for himself and to be the hero, which while technically true, misses a lot of context and makes it easy to dismiss Belos as a whole as simply being evil and crazy instead of a more layered villain. And it can’t be argued that these are just the characters’ perspectives and we shouldn’t take it at face value because there’s nothing really in the show to pushback against that. 

Now, yes, it is fun to imagine how the Wittebane story played out and in hindsight, it’s probably better that the show didn’t depict the entire story because they probably would have botched it. But the point remains that the handling of this storyline was a mess (and don’t give me the cancellation excuse, the show learned early on about this and wrote all of 2B with it in mind). The Wittebane story and Belos as a whole showcase why setup and payoff matter. You show the villain feels guilt about their worst deeds? What’s the payoff to that? The villain was originally an outsider who tried to fit in and conformed to a town’s toxic ideologies? What’s the payoff? The villain continually lies to himself and commits atrocities to justify his actions? What’s the payoff? 

If you’re going to raise interesting and thought-provoking questions then don’t give the audience a simplistic answer.

[anistarrose]

SO as an aromantic villain liker, I have to admit that whether aro or not, there's something compelling about Philip perhaps clinging to Caleb in part because of an alienation from the Other way of acquiring a Good God-Loving Family in his day and age. because if Caleb spurns their witch hunting dreams to go fall in love with a witch that's a perceived betrayal to Philip on two fronts, the witch sympathizing and the abandoning Philip for romance. it's compelling in a "Belos selectively ignores all the norms of his own oppressive belief system that he spurns, when he could have easily found a home amongst the freaks if he let go of his hate" way. it's compelling in an "adds even more parallels to Lilith, who avoids following his path, and shows that people who start in a similar place, with both genuine flaws and genuine instances of being wronged by the world, the latter not entirely unrelated to aromanticism, are still able to find joy instead of hatred, because aromanticism is not a destiny to endlessly suffer nor a destiny to do evil" kind of way.

BUT. unfortunately. I've seen way too many posts that just spew garbage like "Belos is evil because he's incapable of love, obviously! and the heroes are good and moral and (cough) not subhuman (cough) because they actually love people 🥰," just total horseshit right at the intersection of aphobia and ableism. just a total admission that they don't think love can ever motivate people to hurt anyone, that they don't think they can hurt anyone they love and no one they love could really hurt them, that love is a get out of jail free card when doing harm while harm is a get banned from love and humanity permanently card, so. basically, we can't have nice things.

[kindestegg]

Collector, Hunter and Caleb: On cycles of violence

Baby titans. Flapjack. Evelyn. What do they all have in common?

If you guessed "they were key components in making a character question what they've been told and pursue a new life, kickstarting major events", you're correct!

Hi, I'm Romeo the local Collector obsessed TOH fan!! And I REALLY need to talk about how Collector's backstory parallels Hunter's and Caleb's. Like I REALLY REALLY do.

Just as a quick disclaimer, if you're still feeling lost on Collector's backstory, I made a quick write up of my analysis for it here.

Now, if you're up to speed, we can start talking about the parallels. You see, I feel Collector's backstory is so fascinating because it really solidifies one of the recurring themes of The Owl House: cycles of violence.

Specifically, I want to talk about cycles of violence that aren't easily changed or broken. Societal ones, ones that worm themselves into the very norms of conduct that inform a certain people's behavior.

For Caleb, that was being a witch hunter, something that not only do we know was part of the local culture of Gravesfield back when he and Philip came to it, but that also apparently by Philip's memories, was even something he looked forward to.

I'm not going to get into how this ties into historical, real life witch hunting, because I feel it's hardly appropriate I, as someone who's not that well versed on such history, go into it in a theory post about a Disney cartoon.

But even in this fantasy world, the fact of that matter is that this witch hunting was enacting a system of organized violence. Children were brought up since early on to act out witch hunts, to understand witches were enemies and should be hunted. The othering of witches, the insistence of them as monstrous and inhuman. All this must have led to the witch hunting culture of Gravesfield.

And Caleb and Philip were deep in it.

Now, we know how the story goes. Both brothers go to the demon realm, meet a witch. Caleb gives it all an earnest chance, resolves himself to learn about how witches really are, and humanizes them, even possibly falling in love with a witch, who we now know as Evelyn. Philip despises it all from the start, refuses to ever see the place as anything but damned and monstrous.

From this, Caleb and Philip become symbols of opposing forces: That of change, a break in the status quo, a shining light of questioning why things are and calling for peace VS That of tradition, the desperate want to keep the cycle going, inability to envision anything different than has ever been, to question the old teachings.

Each fought for what they believed in. But Caleb lost and the cycle continued, evolved.

In the real world it is much of the same. Change happens gradually, but even when it does, the cycle does not break easily, it evolves into something else.

Philip's hunt turns to the entirety of the Boiling Isles. He creates the Coven System, to get rid of all witches, yes, but also to keep them easier to control, predictable. He becomes Emperor, and now there is a new system of control, a new cycle of violence.

The Emperor's Coven is suspiciously the only one allowed to use all kinds of magic, a way to assert this authority as well as making recruiting Coven Scouts easier. Witches who do not conform to the system are captured and petrified en masse, the Coven Scouts ensure all witches and demons must fall in line, or else. The parallels to our world and state forces used to control the population is not something that goes unnoticed.

Hunter is part of the Emperor's Coven, too. He's placed as the Golden Guard, the most important symbol of the Emperor's Coven, a substitute for Lilith once she reforms. As such, Hunter too starts out by enforcing a system of violence, just as Caleb did before.

The cycle even more glaringly becomes a cycle now, as Belos literally keeps making grimwalkers and restarting the cycle of the golden guard. Belos enforces the cycle of violence, and hopes this "new Caleb" will do it too, and every time he attempts to break it, Belos breaks him first. In a way, there are two cycles of violence at play: that of which is systemically mantained over the Isles, and that of which Belos mantains over Hunter and every other grimwalker he's made.

Hunter, of course, eventually defects as well. He meets Luz, Flapjack, and then Willow and Gus and when he knows it, he's got a whole lot of people he cares about and that care about him. And he becomes a little less willing to carry out the system of violence he was placed in every day. Until he defects for good.

So the cycle breaks once more, but this time, Belos doesn't catch up to him, at least not yet. In the present, Hunter is still surrounded by friends and a loving mother figure. He was part of breaking the cycle, of at least helping stop the Day of Unity. Change is starting.

So where does Collector fit into all of this? Well I'd first like to address the elephant in the room. For a character whose backstory also involves breaking cycles of violence he sure was aiding in one, by giving Belos the draining spell and encouraging the creation of the coven system. But that's just another aspect of cycles of violence.

Because cycles of violence don't just imply systemic violence or even violence perpetrated through constant abuse. But also, the cyclical nature of violence. The ability that someone who has grown up with violence normalized and has had violence done unto them can then channel that into violence towards others.

Now, before I am misinterpreted, I'd like to make some things clear: One, I am not of the simple opinion that "abused people turn into abusers", that is an ugly myth. Two, I have been a victim of abuse myself, and am a psychology graduate. I feel confident speaking with authority about this subject. Third, there is a difference between the psychological concept of generational trauma and internalized violence and the idea that being abused will turn someone violent.

What I am implying here is that Collector's behavior of dismissing both the violence done unto the grimwalkers, as well as towards the victims of the draining spell is something that he has learned and internalized as normal due to his life experiences.

Recall if you will that Collector is a member of an alien species that has a high disregard for life. In the same breath that they will say they preserve creatures to study them, they will also attempt to destroy all that opposes them. Collector grew up with this violence being seen as normal. He was brought to meet the titan trappers and taught to wear the titan skulls, following in his family's footsteps.

But... just like Caleb and Hunter before them, they saw a different path they could take when it came to the titans. A way to approach them without violence. They gained an interest for titans, just like Hunter with wild magic, just like Caleb with the demon realm.

Once left alone to do so, they approached the titans, specifically young ones, close to their age. They played and maybe even learned some of their favorite games for the first time there.

They also became horribly traumatized.

Both Caleb and Hunter have suffered greatly as a consequence for their defiance. No system of violence lets itself be broken peacefully. Caleb had his life taken, so did all the grimwalkers. Hunter, while having escaped with a good support system, lost Flapjack.

For Collector, that came in the form of having to watch all the remaining titans he had so happily introduced himself to play with get killed off by his own family. We do not know the full logic of how or why his family did this, but we know it was brutal and we know the end result: King's egg alone and Collector in the disc, imprisoned for centuries.

Collector is a child, and if there was still any doubt in any fan's mind of this, For the Future stomped it out for good. Collector was a child when he had to watch his family kill off his new friends. He was a child when King's Father, likely in the middle of these attacks and motivated by it, sealed him away. He remained in stasis for centuries during this imprisonment.

I can only imagine that would really mess up any kid up. And through that, I think we can begin to understand what the mindset was for Collector when he took Philip up on his offer.

I've seen people be surprised by how friendly and childlike Collector acted in this latest episode when compared to his previous appearances in season 2, and I think we need to remember that Collector was in a much different condition back then. He had lost everything he cared about, got stuck in a prison for centuries with no one to talk to and no hope of anyone ever finding him, and when someone did find him, it was Philip fucking Wittebane.

And something I think most of us have already clocked about Philip is that he prefers the people he collaborates with to be vulnerable. Someone he can easily control, usually through their emotions and attachments.

We see this in Elsewhere and Elsewhen with his tendency to praise and lead Lilith and Luz on to get what he wants, knowing they need something out of this and are desperate.

We see this with Lilith, whom he uses the guilt of her sister being cursed to make her follow his every command and not question his rules.

We see this with every grimwalker including Hunter as they're told he was the one who "saved them and took them in".

We see this with Luz and how he leads her thoughts around in Hollow Mind to twist it in how she helped him unwittingly before.

And though his relationship with Kikimora and her schemes is more of an odd one, with him mostly paying her no mind, Follies at the Coven Day Parade at the very least touched on the fact her mental health at the Emperor's Coven is not doing well. She's also desperate for something and being led around by Belos' promises, even if that thing she's desperate for is... power. But er, we love an evil girlboss.

Look, what I'm trying to say is that Philip saw a child that had been horribly traumatized from seeing his friends die and then getting stuck in fantasy perpetual prison for centuries with no enrichment, no one to talk to, just eternal loneliness and sadness and he absolutely took advantage of it.

He used every single part of Collector's broken psyche to his advantage, including possibly withholding his freedom to interact with the outside world through the disc, shutting him up and cutting his vision whenever he might have wanted to.

And Collector, having grown up in an environment that encouraged killing everything in your way if necessary, having nothing else to lose because everything he could have cared about not killing was to his knowledge gone...

Absolutely took him up on the offer. And so, the cycle of violence is mantained, the one who had to witness such violence, unable to stop it, now carries out the same type of violence against others. Out of anger, maybe, but mostly out of desperation. For Collector, there's nothing left to do but do what Belos says, otherwise it's back to loneliness and darkness. And if Belos says "kill every last witch and demon in the Boiling Isles", he'll get that.

Collector's glee in this is not something that can be excused, however. It must be examined through the lens of understanding this is a bad thing, that this is a case study in how children internalize violence and learn to be not only compliant to it, but also even revel in it. He's gone from victim to perpetrator. Not because of any of the abuse or trauma he faced, but because of his environment creating the perfect conditions for it.

But that's when our heroes come in. The cycle of violence did not complete itself. The draining spell was stopped. And the way it was stopped is also incredibly powerful in its symbolism.

Because it was King who went out of his way to contact Collector and who freed him. King, a titan, the last of a species that was at war with the collectors, now extended a hand for our Collector to be free. Despite everything indicating that they should not find each other, should not be together, they came together to stop the Day of Unity.

In the Day of Unity being stopped by the Collector, so another cycle of violence is broken: that of titans and collectors being at odds with each other. In them is represented the hope for the future: two children who are free of the anger their species would hold for one another, now united in their wish for a better future.

When King decides Collector shouldn't be imprisoned again and insists to Lilith and Eda that they let him talk to them peacefully, that's him taking a step to break the cycle of violence. When King says "it didn't work" he's not just talking about the fact Collector could go free. He's talking about the fact imprisoning Collector was a violence done unto him that only brought about more danger and more violence, did not teach him anything, and doing so again could risk worse things to come.

When he says "it's worth a shot if no more people get hurt" he includes everyone in that equation. He includes Collector. And that's breaking the cycle of violence.

In a way, you could say if Belos and Collector's arcs as villains are both about stopping cycles of violence in different ways.

With Belos, he has spiraled down so deeply he has become the cycle itself, eating everything in the way and infecting everything, unable to live on without creating more violence onto others, and so he must be stopped by force if necessary. In this, The Owl House doesn't shy away from the fact that in the real world, sometimes you need to fight back, you cannot resolve everything peacefully, and breaking the cycle will involve hurting someone before they hurt more people.

But with Collector, another side is shown, one that reminds us that we must have nuance, and sometimes, we will be faced with the difficult reality that those doing violence unto others are also people who are hurting, who are lonely, who are sad. Specially children who have grown in environments where violence and prejudice was normalized. Sometimes children will be violent, will be bigoted, will repeat every little horrible thing the adults in their lives taught them. But they're still children. And they still deserve a chance to learn and a chance to grow.

It's about recognizing the difference between a young person who genuinely wants to learn and hasn't had the opportunity to, and someone who is not interested in this. Collector's backstory tells us he does have an interest in being good, he just needs the opportunity.

Collector isn't an easy character to approach like Hunter or Caleb. They do not have the benefit of starting off the narrative dead and buried, leaving the audience to assume mostly good things out of his deviation. Neither do they have Hunter's rebellious teenage bravado that allows him to show his defiance to Belos or his tragic fate of being a grimwalker binding him. They just are an alien child with immense power who tried once to deviate from the norm and then got the worst luck of the entire universe after them, and procceeded to become bitter and angry and absolutely sadistic afterwards.

But there's still good in them. And just like Caleb and Hunter, their efforts to break the cycle of violence they were raised in, as well as the efforts to denounce their fellow collectors will not go unnoticed.

[sepublic]

The way the setup for the impact, the shots, Luz’s family going around her in her defense, the way it cuts to an opposite angle… Idk something about Lilith not getting to help kill Belos, but still being there in spirit as someone who got her own revenge and last laugh on him, as someone who had to spend the most time with Belos, technically more than Hunter when you actually think about it!

The others made him die, but the humiliation and pain Lilith inflicted was something he was forced to live with for the rest of his life. Maybe he wore that mask to hide the mold, but nobody in this world would judge him for it. Maybe he wore the mask before the mold, out of sheer humiliation every time he looked into a mirror; He could not look at his own face without being reminded of Lilith owning him. Luz got a scar but you know that’s something she learned to live with, esp knowing Belos died because of her and her loved ones. But Belos never got over his scar, not ever.

And the callback to Luz having to deal with Philip on her own, him trying to convince her, just for Lilith to step in and shut him the fuck up? And in the finale, same thing, with Luz’s other family doing the same thing. The similarities hearkening to Lilith protecting Luz, so it’s like she’s doing the same here in spirit. Luz talking the first time, Lilith not saying a thing as she goes for the impact.

Then Luz isn’t saying a thing, while her mom, brother, and Raine dropping their own commentary. Hit in the face by the fist, and then the foot. It cutting to Philip’s face after the impact, and then it’s Belos’ face before it, because he has no face afterwards. The family is cementing both times that Luz doesn’t owe that guy anything before they get to enjoy each other without any worries again.

And the callback goes further because Belos turns into Philip, just to remind you that not only is this worst evil ever a white human, but also to show how his dignified and controlled facade shatters all over again, leaving him a fumbling humiliated mess because that’s really what he is in the end; A tantrum-throwing manchild who can’t accept consequences. He thinks he’s so clever with his words that will save him until someone shuts it down with an action. Just like the Grimwalkers, or making a bad excuse to someone magically stronger before he gets splattered, Belos can never escape the cycle of his humiliation and suffering and lack of responsibility.

[catboymoments]

so to get this straight for swap au:

Left is character right is the role

amity - luz

Lilith - eda

collector - king

Willow - gus

Gus - Willow

Hunter - ???

eda - Lilith ???

king - collector??

mattholmule - ?????

I was wondering if you could tell me what the last few are😭 sorry if I’m just dumping everything out onto you no pressure to answer!

Yeah sure!!!

So unfortunately for our favorite white boy, Hunter as we know him in TOH doesn’t really. Exist in the swap au? Because in order for that to happen, Caleb would have to be dead and Philip would be making grimwalkers of him. And in the swap au, Philip is the one that’s dead and getting cloned by Caleb. So instead of Hunter we have Azrael, a grimwalker of Philip under the care of Father Hierophant.

He’s got a similar arc to Hunters, but his personality is a little different. He’s more grumpy and more intentionally mean, but he’s by no means a bad person. He’s just been manipulated and controlled to the point of frustration.

Eda takes the role of Lilith, King is a little starchild in the collector’s role, and I wasn’t sure what to do with Matt but I think I figured it out! Since I didn’t want to ship Azrael with Gus as a parallel to huntlow, I’m having Matt switch places with Boscha, but he’s going to actually redeem himself and be nicer than her so we have a kind of “boschlow but awesome and yaoi” thing going on LOLLLL

[thousand-winters]

Dear pal!! For the ask how about Lilith and Micaiah! I would also love to hear Darius if you feel up to 3 because I'm not sure I've heard your very first impression before!

Hello there!!! 💖 Gladly haha

Lilith 🖤

First impression: "Oh, my gods, she's just like me fr fr" ahaha. I knew, I knew I would love her. It wasn't even funny how much I liked her right away, but given that she was introduced via her messy relationship with Eda and her being so composed and then losing it? Oh, she was so good right away and she did not disappoint one bit.

Impression now: LIGHT OF MY HEART. She's one of those characters that are so close to my heart and ironically I don't talk much about her. But gods, she's so good, I just love how much she's allowed to still make mistakes even after her "redemption" and everything. How much she's allowed to still need support, and to learn to have fun again and find her own way to live. It's SO good, she makes me so emotional.

Favorite moment: The "stay mad" punch is so iconic, 10/10, she should punch more people.

Idea for a story: Gods, there's so much fun to do with Lilith. Off the top of my head, I think something very interesting could be done with how she goes from most awkward failed mentorshop alive with Amity to giving her spinny hugs as greeting (SO much space for parallel guilt over their past actions and their resolution to do better), ooooor potentially her first years in the Coven + how she became Head of the Coven. I think a normal amount about her saying Philip was uncomfortably familiar for the praise and compliments and how he "said what you wanted to hear". Belos was really out there manipulating her as soon as he got her there, wasn't he...

Unpopular opinion: I don't think her switch up from s1 to s2 is out of character or weird. I think she's exactly the same as Hunter in that sense, and we even get a little more time with her to see her struggling to get rid of old ideologies and not even fully succeeding because yeah, of course it's well ingrained in her even months later, she was there for years. BUT she also has room now to breathe without the constant pressure to do better or else. Plus her biggest source of stress, Eda's curse, is... not gone, but she finally did something about it and came clean, which has to be a huge weight off her shoulders. It makes sense for her to be a little more goofy, even while she was still in the coven, she still had her moments with Eda, so it's not really odd that now that she gets the chance, she actually strengtens that connection and opens herself up for more, plus finally being unburdened enough to try and do what she's always wanted.

Favorite relationship: I want to say Hooty so bad but... it has to be Eda, because of course it's Eda. The sisters ever. It doesn't help that their whole deal sort of reminds me of my sister and I. They're just SO much. The love they have for each other, but also the jealousy Eda felt. Love mixed with envy is one of the most compelling things you can do for a fictional relationship. I do not recommend in real life lmao.

Favorite headcanon: I LOVE to think about her making it her goal to restore as much of the history of the Isles as possible, given that Belos DID cause quite a lot of damage there, concealing the real history and making his own version. Typical. Now, I think she would love it both as a last "fuck you" to Belos and because she simply loves history, it would be healing and recreational for her. She can switch that up with her museum duties <3

Micaiah! 🤍

First impression: I thought she was a bit corny. I'm so sorry, Micaiah, I love you. She just comes at you with the "savior of Daein" attitude already in her and it annoyed me a little bit at first haha. I did think her light magic was pretty cool though, it's so unusual to start with one of the main cast, let alone the main lord, as a light mage (Is she the only case, actually?).

Impression now: BELOVED. I recently read a meta about how her colors get drained by Yune's through the story and it made me so sad, she's such an interesting character because she really does start so hopeful, such a symbol of faith and then... well. War. The blood contract. It all gets to her and it's fascinating seeing her struggle with her own morality and her duty. She's SO good. I need her to be happy.

Favorite moment: I'm still replaying and I'm going to do a careful playthrough after my current whirlwind to get to the second playthrough but off the top of my head, her pulling off that one strategy against the Begnion pegasus knights. You know the one. And her holding on to her plan even as Sothe gets threatened but then being desperate to save him, it's SUCH a scene.

Idea for a story: I'm so curious about her years while Sothe and her get separated. Admittedly, I don't remember if they say what happened there or what she was doing, but if they don't, I would like to know. Alternatively, how she's faring as queen of Daein because oh, gods, she never wanted that and now she's stuck there 😭 Similar to Elincia's political troubles after getting the throne of Crimea, I assume there might be trouble ahead, especially with the issue with the branded not being over, it's gonna be obvious they have a ruler who doesn't age at a normal rate sooner or later.

Unpopular opinion: I do not like what she has going on with Sothe 💔 Which is unfortunate since it seems like what is intended. It's not even just that I don't like them in a romantic sense, they clash SO much in such petty ways during the story that it was sometimes like watching your parents who definitely need a divorce but won't admit it. Slightly too painful to bear.

Favorite relationship: I love her whole deal with Pelleas. I'm so biased. It might seem like whatever, and I don't remember enough just yet to hold a proper argument but I think they have a fun dynamic, especially with him being like "oh, you're so special the spirits picked you, haha, careful so they don't think you're one of those branded tho (:". Like oof. So much going on there. Also Pelleas being so adoring of her while she feels so compelled to help him. Both of them being trapped by their perceived duty and trapped in the image people have built of them. It's tasty.

Favorite headcanon: I like to think she ends up eventually going to Stefan's branded nation eventually. I think, as much as she cares for Daein and obviously loves the people around her, she still has a big degree of feeling like an outcast, as most people like her do which... in all fairness is a point Stefan himself makes. Even if she ends up preferring to be around the beorc and laguz instead of keeping herself to one nation with only people like her, I think it would be healing if she gets to experience that for a while. I don't think Stefan is planning to pull a Goldoa anyway, so they probably wouldn't be isolated, so it would be nice.

Darius 💜

First impression: It's so sad because I don't remember too well, but I know I thought he was SO cool. I thought his abomination transformation was scary as fuck and, for that, extremely cool. I'm not the most versed in sounds but is that a bell toiling whe he turns? Regardless of what it is, it's SUCH an ominous sound right before he does that. He looked so threatening and it was just so cool to me haha. I think I thought he was really fun before that, because oh my goodness, he's so silly ahaha "I was scheduled for some ✨ me time ✨ today, so hand yourselves over before things get nasty™️". The line delivery is perfect. His design pops up so much. He's so bitchy ahaha. Amazing introduction, frankly.

Impression now: LOVE OF MY LIFE, I MUST MARRY THIS MAN IMMEDIATELY. Genuinely I could count in one hand the amount of characters I have genuinely wanted to kiss and he's one of them ahaha. Which isn't only about his beauty, he's just such a cool character. He has so many layers and he's SO good. I'm so frustrated, the fandom does not get it, why do they want to take everything he does in the worst light (I know why. The racism, sigh). Not a day goes by in which I don't lament his cut screentime, the fact he gets so many ties to the main plot and he's such a foil TO BELOS OF ALL CHARACTERS??? Insane. This man has so many interesting things going on for a character that appears less than 15 minutes and I will forever be chewing on glass over it. SO much to explore with him.

Favorite moment: I cannot do this, all of his moments are exceptionally good ahaha. It's either gonna be his "ALRIGHT, NO MORE PLAYING AROUND" while he transforms (I gotta say, he's very hot for that) OR the iconic headchop. I think it's very amazing of him to go "actually, I was wrong" without any embarrassment or hesitation and immediately change his attitude and try to do better. People do not get how difficult that is because they're focused on seeing only the worst in him, Darius is just that good.

Idea for a story: SO MANY. Shoutout to my wips still not likely to see the light of day until I get my shit together but: Darius dealing with depression after the disappearance of his mentor and Darius dealing with depression after everything is over bc, oh, surprise, my man, your mental illness doesn't go away even if you ignore it until things are finally going well, you have some baggage to deal with and some healing to do. Also I want to bad to write him in his young years with the mentor, I'm swearing by my headcanon that- oh, wait, I can use this for that option down there, nevermind ahaha. Anyway, yeah, the second idea was him with his mentor learning to do the abom transformation to get his promotion to Head Witch.

Unpopular opinion: Liking him is an unpopular opinion :[ I think he'll be an excellent father to Hunter, actually. Yes, he has no experience, but which parent does before having their kids? Plus he has something the other previous options for parents don't have, which is he has the same background as Hunter, aka, he was in the Emperor's Coven as well, for YEARS. And he also used to be a loyal believer, given that he had his mentorship, he KNOWS what is like in the coven, he knows what is like to cope with your world crumbling when you realize everything you believed in is wrong, and he has dealt with the grief of losing someone important to you to Belos. Hitting the boxes for experience in a cult, religious guilt, and grief over a loved one lost specifically to Belos. Attitude wise he's already a very good fit for Hunter's needs, but combine that with his specific life experience? I think he's absolutely perfect (of course there'll be fumbles but please, you really think any of the others wouldn't have fumbles? Sounds weird to me you think only the black man would be a bad parent but whatever <- not directed at you, friend, obviously, I'm just speaking to the proverbial wall ahahaha).

Favorite relationship: You know me, it's absolutely Hunter and him ahahaha. Eber is SO good too, in all fairness, but all the possibilities with Hunter and Darius just get to me. I'm weak to family bonds, plus the trope of "I'm not getting attached to this kid... oh, fuck" just gets to me haha.

Favorite headcanon: This has bases on canon anyway, and I have talked about it before, but I think he's the kind of person who really thrives around other people, but specifically people he trusts, even though he can definitely handle a crowd. As a result, I think he does so, so badly when he has no support. Despite being such a confident man, I feel like his confidence plummets when he has no support around, which is why it probably took him a while to even decide to start the rebellion after his mentor was gone, because he had nobody around to help him pick up the pieces of himself and he just struggled to believe in himself. Basically, I think he needs more support than it could seem, he's not the kind of person who can easily thrive on his own, he's too softhearted for that, the coven just pushed him into difficult circumstances since he was aware that someone had to do something to help and there was nobody but him who stood a chance at the time.

Thanks for the question!!! From this ask game

[lampmanliveblogs]

Luz is smiling, I repeat, Luz is smiling! This is a good sign. And hey, regardless of whatever nightmare she’s ended up in, at least Stringbean, the little danger noodle, got to tag along.

I’m noticing a lack of an episode title. In the other episodes, the episode title usually came right after the series title.

Lets talk a bit more about this… thing going on.

So this obviously some kind of dream or illusion, Luz said as much herself. But what is the nature of it? Was it caused simply by The Collector rendering Luz unconscious? Stringbean’s here too, which I suppose could just be Luz’ imagination, but if we take it at face value and that is the real Stringbean, then that means this isn’t your average bad dream, this is an advanced nightmare.

So what other possibilities do we have? The Collector could have used some kind of mental magic to plunge Luz (and Stringbean) into some kind of mindscape or nightmare realm where she’s forced to battle against her greatest fear or some such. Another possibility is that The Collector themselves constructed this scenario, with Luz in the Emperor Belos cosplay. Luz and Philip are both humans, and considering Philip stringed The Collector along for hundreds of years promising play and friendship, only to toss him into the dark, and Luz is (supposedly) coming to ruin The Collector’s play and friendship with King… it’s kinda wonky, but you can see how The Collector would make the connection between the two of them.

Of course, as I’ve pointed out before, the parallels between Luz and Philip run deep. The fundamental divide is that deep down, Luz is essentially a good person, and deep down, Philip is not.

I believe that is a stained glass mural we saw back in season one (Agony of A Witch, I wanna say? the opening scene with Lilith resolving to capture Eda), but with Belos replaced with what I’ll assume is Luz. Though it’s hard to tell since the figure’s wearing a mask and their hair looks nothing like Luz’.

OH WOW, OKAY, WOW. Just puling out ALL the stops, huh!? Barely a minute and a half into it, we haven’t even gotten the title for the episode yet, and we’ve already got piles of Luz’ friends and allies petrified while screaming in agony and fear? I see how it is.

Let’s see… Morten the elixir maker, Derwin of the B.A.t.T:s, Principal Bump, Mattholomule & Boscha, Edric, Emira, & Alador, Tinela ”Tiny Nose” Nosa, Amber & Katya also of the B.A.t.T:s, the reformed Emperor’s Coven scout Steve, and Tibblet-Tibblie ”Tibbles” Grim Hammer III.

You know, I thought that when Luz went though the whole ”I only wanted to be understood” thing in the last episode, that maybe the worst was past, but, NOPE! Apparently not. I swear, if they try to make Luz believe she did this, I will—

[psychicbluebirdmiracle]

I always love/hated the parallel between Hunter digging his own grave and Lilith yelling at Philip "I hope that's your own grave your digging"