#like imagine S5 john saying that

[crustaceousfaggot]

Can't believe "hey Kellin, your mother was a whore" is canon

[mulders-too-large-shirt]

s5 episode 3 thoughts

it’s been a bit since i last watched an episode (count: 5 whole days!) and i need my hit of scully and mulder time. so imagine my surprise when i went to watch today’s episode, and saw it is not about scully and mulder, but the lone gunmen? 

hmm. hmm hmm. well, how do i feel about this?

let’s just say that when i was doing my preliminary research to see if i wanted to watch this show, i came across a plot point that is going to be addressed in a few episodes, and i want to reach them NOW to see how they play out. and that is all i will say on the matter. 

even if i really really really REALLY want to say more. i will not. 

(author's note: imagine me sadly pressing my palm against a rainy window... no scully and mulder time today 😔)

okay. so lone gunmen origin story… let’s see where this brings us!!

it’s 1989 (the intro riff to style begins playing from an unknown source)

the swat people are here in maryland because there are a lot of gunshots. so they’re going into this mysterious building, rifles drawn, and everything is very very dark. 

there’s blood on the floor but nobody around!!! and then they hear a guy groaning under a cardboard box???

whoever it is keeps moaning “they’re here, they’re here” <- WHO IS HERE?

woahhhh another guy finds the lone gunmen!!! they say they didn’t do it!!

while they’re being arrested, the guy under the box keeps yelling that they’re here. which does not clear up anything. 

was that naked box man mulder…? no, it can’t be….

the intro was shorter again this time. i WILL make note of it no matter how many times it happens.

sad byers is in a jail cell with the homies :( the girls are fighting!!!! it seems they did NOT get along at first

IT WAS MULDER IN THAT CARDBOARD BOX?????? “he’s currently being held in five point restraints”, says the cop talking to byers <- what does THAT MEAN (types furiously into a search engine) ohhh okay. okay. got it now.

byers wants to know where a lady is, and he says that she IS real, because mulder saw her, but…. this answers none of my, nor the cop's, questions

“so what i’m looking at here is a warehouse break-in with nothing stolen, a shootout but no guns, lots of blood but no bodies, and an FBI agent who likes to take off all his clothes and talk about space aliens” <- yeah, that sounds about right 

BYERS WAS BORN THE DAY KENNEDY DIED???? okay that is crazy for reincarnation theorists 🔥 

LMAO is that why his name is “john fitzgerald” … my brain put together the date quicker than the name itself 

yes, he confirms this immediately after i type it up. fun byers trivia for ya, i guess.

so he works for the federal communications commission, for now at least. he was at a computer con booth giving out buttons when all of this began!! aww, he looks so happy to be gathering your information

NO some random people were mean to him and he looks so sad now :( (him being referred to as narc is a repeated occurrence throughout the episode)

he sees a mysterious woman at the booth?? who starts to say something, but then leaves. and he follows her while his coworker is going to town on some computer games. aww man, i wanna show this guy tears of the kingdom. he’d be so happy.

mysterious woman runs into frohike, who is giving her a speech on a machine he made that gives you 33 channels of premium TV??

(i was going to say "i do not think that sounds legal" but i didn't want to sound like a Youngling. but yeah. not legal)

and langly is in the booth next door to him heckling him 💀

they’re fighting over who sells better bootleg cable LMAOOOOO!! who will win?!

this spat allows mystery woman to escape, but byers runs into her!!! she drops a photo of a child and he says “she’s very cute” as he hands it back to her. byers, why are you kind of a puppy dog here? look at him. aww.

he is stuttering and says she looks like she could use some help, but not in a way that sounds condescending at all; he seems like he genuinely means it, even if he doesn’t know wtf is going on.

oh my god, well looks like he is good at sniffing out the truth. he sits down with mysterious lady, who begins to tell him about how her child, who just turned three, was kidnapped by her boyfriend recently. the ex boyfriend is very dark and mysterious but dipped when there was a kid involved… but then came back and took her??! who is this man????

and the investigators are not finding anything!!! EXCEPT that the guy is in baltimore somewhere. but now the guy knows she’s looking for him!!!!!

she hands byers a card that says "arpanet/whtcorps" which he knows the meaning of; apparently it’s a special government project, and you can access it through the internet. glad it means something to him because it sure doesn't to me.

ohhhh, byers says he’ll try and go online and figure it out… i feel like he’s being drawn into some sort of trap, but he just wants to do the right thing….

they finally introduce each other, and now we know that mystery woman is named holly. good to know. he points out that there is a pack of sugar right in front of them that says holly?? ohhhh is she lying and that was the first name she came up with…….?

so byers comes back and kicks his coworker ken off of the computer. ken has been EVICTED!!!

the code brought them to the defense data network!!! and she wants him to hack into it??? that feels like a huge ask….

he betrays his FCC code of ethics and tries to get in there… and it takes him literally 3 seconds. damn. he could have been doing that all along. it was simply his moral code holding him back.

they find an encoded file allegedly for her daughter susanne modeski, but i don’t buy it….

but as they’re printing out the papers with the code on them, she says she sees the crazy ex boyfriend!!! they hide… why am i scared it’ll be mulder lmaooo 

AND IT IS????????

what the fuck. 

so, obviously she’s lying on a bunch of different levels. i'm trying to imagine mulder kidnapping a child. it’s laughable. 

he runs into frohike and says “no thanks, handsome” to his offer of bootleg cable and frohike responds with “ah, a man of distinction” <- LMAO so they've just been flirting with each other from the very start?? good to know

mulder’s hair is fluffy to try and make him look younger, and it’s kinda funny and kinda adorable, but mostly funny 

byers and holly go to frohike for help, because he is a very good hacker!!! he says, why are we trying to crack this code if we can just beat the shit out of your ex boyfriend and find your daughter??? it’s a very good point. holly says it’s too dangerous. 

“lady, I’M dangerous” <- LMAOOOO frohike is a king of knowing his value

frohike says i’ll just go find him!! he could have the girl here for all we know!! that's direct action baby!!

holly’s trying to get them to stop following mulder, the "mysterious ex", while byers and frohike watch him…… mulder grabs some alien detection machine and it goes off (lmao) but then he darts into a back corridor. 

and he finds them first!!! OHHHH he busts out the picture of holly and says they’re looking for her at the FBI ohhh nooooo

NOOOO... holly’s gone and ken is being taken away because they think he did the hacking… but all he did was play dig dug 😭😭 poor ken

byers starts to say it was him that did it, when frohike says you cannot turn yourself in as a hacker!!! aww byers :( he doesn't want any trouble... how far he has progressed in the episodes during which we come to know him since these initial moments of guilt and doubt

frohike says they need to hack into the FBI so they can figure out what is up with this woman. byers is gagged at such a request, but then frohike reminds him he’s literally already hacked into the government today, so get used to it.

meanwhile, langly is gambling??? wait. they’re playing D&D. how do you gamble while playing D&D??? no time to answer that. byers and frohike interrupt to request his assistance!

before he can agree to anything, langly makes frohike confess that HIS is the best kung fu 💀💀💀😭😭

byers is having a crisis as he realizes he will probably go to jail… meanwhile, langly hacked right into the FBI!!!! with great efficiency!!

omg wait!!! we have mulder’s info here…. he was born 10/31/61 and his eyes are green??? i guess i don’t spend a lot of time admiring his eyes. and he has a telephone number that i’m sure people still call and whoever it belongs to gets (rightfully) pissed tf off. 

WAIT, IT LISTS HIS CAREER HISTORY….

"1983-1986: oxford university 

1986: quantico academy 

1988: currently assigned to the violent crimes unit"

this answers almost none of my questions, and if i think about it for longer than 3 seconds, i will end up doing a whole post trying to figure out HIS timeline in addition to scully’s. so now i have to struggle with THAT. we’ll circle back to it.

(i'm going to assume those 3 years at oxford would be for a grad degree? unless he went off and traveled the world before attending undergrad? because he would be 26 when went to quantico and then 23 when he started oxford, which gives him enough time to have done an undergrad degree somewhere else?? yeah. let's go with that for now)

they realize there is nothing in his profile about being psychotic or having a daughter, so that’s a point against holly. look at the man! looks totally sane.

OH tea…. HOLLY *is* susanne modeski, wanted for MURDER, SABOTAGE, and other crimes such as TERRORISM!!!! she blew up a lab!!!! this is... not good.

poor byers is realizing what he has done while someone enters the room!!! it’s HER!!!!!!

now what is going on here!!!!! she denies the blowing up of the lab and the killing of people, saying instead she tried to quit her job, which is not a job where you can just quit. and there is no daughter. byers looks so hurt. aww :(

she says that the coded file he found earlier contains everything she needs to expose the government’s plot against its own people… and she had unwittingly moved it forward by developing “ergotamine-histamine gas” <- well. that doesn’t sound good.

it causes anxiety and paranoia on its subjects!! is that what was released in mulder’s apartment at the end of s2??

(sometimes i miss big pieces because i'm so tuned into the little details. like finding out birthdays and the character's wall decorations. ergot i remember from never again, though)

susanne slash holly says the government is going to release this chemical onto the public in baltimore!!

she says the government is behind what happened to JFK and also placing bibles in hotel rooms. you see, i do not think these are quite on the same level of crime. oh, she says it’s for surveillance. well. okay. i guess. 

they don’t seem to believe her, but she has a gun so they move forward with cracking the code as she requests. the message talks of an “E.B.O.”, an engineered biological operation, using toxins on humans. 

ohhhhh there’s an address for where the toxins are located!!!! and she is being watched at all times, ordered by dr. kilbourne, who she says is her dentist??????

now what does her dentist have to do with this? OH, a mouth implant!!! i realize this mere milliseconds before she takes some pliers and leaves the room. you can imagine what will happen next.

she goes to the bathroom to pull out a tooth and it has a…. thingy in it????? what it actually does is incredibly unclear, and tbh i'm cool with that. i don't need to know everything

they flushed the tooth for the fear of giving away the location. which does make sense, but part of me thought they would study it. then they go to the warehouse and find the chemicals in the boxes as described. they are keeping the chemicals in asthma inhalers!!! that's just diabolical.

NOOOO, mulder is here!!!! and he is placing them all under arrest!!!

but then two other people come to grab her??? and mulder is like who tf are you????? they start shooting!!!! and the gas is spilling all over him!!!!!! which is why he’s ripping off his clothes!!!

the two mystery men go to shoot him, but susanne shoots them first!!!!

he’s writhing about….. and she runs away…. when a team arrives wearing gas masks???

AND THEY HAVE X WITH THEM?? who walks up to the lone gunmen, past them, and over to mulder????

X tells them to “sanitize it” while the lone gunmen are watching…… it is giving that scene in monsters inc

mulder is seeing aliens due to the drugs!!!! and that’s why he’s saying “they’re here” ohhh okay that makes sense

they take the guys susanne shot, and they throw 'em in body bags. then seal all of the other boxes of the gas, as well as the opened packaging on the floor that came from the boxes being shot a billion times.

byers asks X what authority he has to do this, which leads him to being told to stfu by frohike…. but he’s not letting it go!!!! ohhhh now they’re being sat down execution style…. X has the gun, and it is behind the head of byers...

the gun is empty, though!!!! so he tells them to "behave yourselves" and leaves. THAT'S ALL HE'S GOING TO DO?? he's going to let them simply walk away???

“it’s all true what susanne said about you people, isn’t it?", asks byers, as X leaves; "about john f kennedy, dallas?”

“i heard it was a lone gunman” <- OHHHH NAME ORIGIN REVEAL 🔥🔥🔥

(i’ve missed X rolling up, saying the coldest lines, and disappearing into the night air... rest in peace king)

someone comes to pick him up, and he leaves. just an average day on the job for a guy like him.

back to byers being questioned, where we began all of this. and the cop does not believe him at all, lmao. would you??

frohike and langly are groaning about women because “your molar pulling girlfriend roped us in and left us swinging in the breeze” (crazy sentence btw) (let's not get misogynistic about it)

oh byers is PISSED at this “i’m here because i wanted to learn the truth” <- YEAH, YOU TELL EM!!

he says she doesn’t owe him anything!!! she opened his eyes to the truth!!! i love a sad looking man with a moral compass!!

and mulder verified their story so they can leave now!!!

mulder’s car was stolen, so they think that susanne took it and went to the newspaper... and sure enough, we see her leaving the building.

they run to find her, knocking down some random guy in the process (LMAOOO) she says the reporters didn’t believe her story, and no one would, but she appreciates their help

oh, and now she’s kissing byers. you see, i didn’t want it to go in that direction. but here we are.

the pay phone right next to them starts ringing,,, and she says “no matter how paranoid you are, you’re not paranoid enough” and that they need to tell as many people as they can the truth; that is their weapon!!! so that must be why they started their organization? to spread the truth?

she is then shoved in a dark car with X in the backseat????

the three or them are then at the convention center while things are getting cleaned up. and mulder is here!!! he says he has weird ideas. susanne is no longer wanted by the FBI… he needs to know wtf happened last night!!

(zoom out as they begin explaining that the government wishes to control and surveil our lives)

mulder does a shocked “whaaa?” at this news and it was so funny lmao

yeah yeah yeah the government is always watching us. we all know that.

so! an interesting episode to see the origins of the nerds, but i’m not sure exactly what it’s leading to? why did we get an origin story for them now? are they going to be playing a bigger role in the rest of the season? or did they just think this was a nice time for a lore reveal?

hmm. hmm. 

well, you may recall that earlier i specially was craving scully and mulder time. and i got NONE OF THAT HERE. so frankly, yes, i am annoyed. i’m not even saying it was a bad episode!! it just didn’t have scully in it, which makes it far less enjoyable than it could be.

i did enjoy seeing more into each of their individual personalities, though, so that is good? and i love how byers wants to be a good guy. aww. he's adorable.

i guess this was a fine episode, but it wasn't what i was looking forward to when i sat down and began watching, which was agents on the case time, so i may have no choice but to watch another episode tonight in an attempt to scratch that itch.

[tommygrace]

What I like about the show is that it is very good at showing the consequences of a life full of violence. And like Tommy had everything he wanted but because of that life he leads, the moment he started to enjoy it, he lost it, in a second. And that made his life literally go to hell, his life was a complete hell after losing Grace. And he went so far down that path that by the last season he lost everything. And the show is very good at not romanticizing violence but the only thing they completely failed at was the story between Tommy and Lizzie. It was very, very bad written, meaningless, they downgraded Tommy's character, because S1 and S2 would never have started anything with her, much less married her, and they made Lizzie a very sad woman because of how toxic she was and like never before she respected herself as a woman. In 5 seasons, we were shown Tommy using and treating her as a prostitute. And Lizzie, the worse he treated her, the more obsessed she became with the fact that she had to be with him.

S1, ok she was a prostitute, he didn't trust her, and she proved him right by saying yes, and cheating on John with several men, I guess it was her karma later. That season is fine, it makes sense, and they both feel disgust for each other.

But S2, Tommy is her client again, and we see how Lizzie likes him, and tells him I hope you won't pay me once as if we were normal people WTF?? Haha, how did it come to that, when before John was a hundred times better than him? And why does she have this fantasy that he may want something with her? Did she really think he was going to say yes? Sex is very sad, emotionless, cold and distant. Then he hires her as a secretary, because she is not someone respectable, and tells her to leave her other job, and then.... tells her that he needs her to seduce a man, that he knows how violent he is with women, he doesn't care, she is raped by this man. And that's when Lizzie's sick obsession begins: she has to do everything possible to be with Tommy.

S3, he continues to treat her like a prostitute, he pays her in front of the whole family, for allowing herself to be fucked, he pays her! And she was no longer a prostitute, he didn't have to pay her.

S4 he continues to pay her for her services, he is only with prostitutes, one of them is Lizzie. He takes her to a tunnel, so he can imagine that she is another woman, she knows it, she doesn't care, then he ignores her because he wants to be with May, a woman he respects. Lizzie becomes more obsessed, trying to humiliate other women, for doing the same as her. Then she tells him about the pregnancy, he suggests abortion and then he's going to buy her a house and the company is going to pay her but Lizzie continues in her own toxic fantasy, it's like she doesn't listen to what he tells her, she covered her ears and convinces herself that he loves her.

S5, already married, and he continues to treat her like a prostitute, he tells her that in his mind he continues to pay her, he literally calls her a prostitute, he calls her property, and she has to beg him at least in bed. The two were lowered in level, they were reduced to the lowest level as characters, which made them very unlikeable. Tommy cheats on her with many women, she accepts it. (Her karma)

And S6, before I thought that in this season Tommy learned to love her a little, to love her as a friend but I think not even that. I think he only esteems her a little, but he never respected her or loved her, because he was really very cruel to her. She is also with him, and I don't think she really loved Tommy, but it was more of an obsession that she had to be a Shelby and she had to marry him, that was her goal, which makes her a sad character,.which makes her unlikeable. A lot of people stopped like her after S3.

I think the karma of both of them is to be in that miserable relationship and be completely unhappy, but I think the show didn't need that story, much less S5 and S6. Because it doesn't make sense, why so much sick obsession? I never understood how Tommy could marry her, but I think that for him, she was another person that he used and manipulated, and it was easy because she was desperate for him. But it might even make sense.

[aardvaark]

Leverage character asks: 1,3,17,45 (your choice on character)

thank you for the ask & for fueling my leverage obsession lol <3

1. Canon I outright reject

honestly i love the character development on leverage, even when it means the character has some negative traits or weaknesses or something. hmm… i think one thing i disliked was hardison being a super bad tipper (some ep in s5). he doesn’t care about workers? particularly after five years of leverage? idk.

i also wish eliot didn’t seem to like cops so much, but thats more of a gripe with the show’s/showrunners’ attitudes towards police.

3. Obscure headcanon

sophie: that she’s trans! love that hc. shout out to @transsophiedevereaux. also that sophie had a drunken one night stand with maggie, which is actually (word of god) canon rather than a head canon, but seems to be rarely mentioned.

nate: nate x sophie x sterling… it’s happened at least once.

parker: so many!! but the one i’ll share is that. uh. she’s probably killed someone. pre-leverage, she’s known to be dangerous for a reason, and she’s been in a lot of awful situations unfortunately. she would probably have done so out of necessity, it might even have been self defense, but yk. it’s still killing someone. and no, i don’t mean the pilot flashback - according to word of god (ie john rogers) she probably didn’t kill her foster parents when exploding their house. anyway, i’ve seen some cool fics about this idea and discussed this topic w @laser-tripwires and i think it’s really interesting for a variety of reasons, but i won’t list them here bc this is already getting so long lol.

hardison: that he still secretly adds to nana’s income somehow (he canonically paid off her medical bills), that he plays D&D, that he likes [insert media beloved by geeks that i don’t really know much about, but i love that people hc him as enjoying the things they enjoy so much].

eliot: my own silly hc that many of his scars are actually from kitchen accidents rather than fights lol

17. Quotes, songs, poems, etc. that I associate with them

gonna answer this one for sophie only, cause i have quite a few answers just for her!

1) i saw a gif set of sophie once with the lyrics of "thief" by imagine dragons, and it was a really gorgeous gif set and the lyrics fit very well.

2) yk the fable "the scorpion and the frog"? at the end of s1, she seems to excuse her actions (conning the team) like the scorpion - that it’s just in her nature, lying is who she is, she’s a thief and this is what thieves do, etc. additionally, it’s what sterling says about her, that her behaviour was predictable because it’s "who she is".

3) the gambler by kenny rogers. bc the chorus is canonically her life philosophy lmao (according to the last dam job).

45. Their favorite celebrity

sophie: canonically, db cooper. she idolises him in the db cooper job lol. poster above her bed as a teenager etc etc.

nate: man, his would be oddly specific im sure. like he reads war strategy books, maybe sun tzu. or perhaps a chess grandmaster, like bobby fischer. i don’t know much about war strategists nor chess players, so if anyone does, then maybe you can suggest a more specific person.

hardison: i know he loves star trek, doctor who, star wars - im simply not pop culture savvy enough to know who his fave actors from those shows might be. BUT. i think it would be funny if his fave celebrity was wil wheaton (who was in star trek, and who, of course, played cha0s in leverage). also, wil wheaton is famously into D&D, video games, comics, and other "geek" stuff that hardison proudly enjoys too. hardison does not see the resemblance btwn wheaton and his nemesis, no idea what you’re taking about.

eliot: i think he would have people he looks up to or thinks are incredible, who are celebrities but only in a very specific field. like a renowned chef, but not a "celebrity chef" as in one who’s on tv. i mean like a chef who is famous among chefs, for being one of the most talented in the world.

parker: i feel her definition of celebrity would be somewhat different to most people’s. plus, her knowledge of the world is deep but narrow - she knows everything possible about thievery and anything even tangentially related (probably a decent amount of physics, for example), but pop culture? not so much. she later gets into stuff like dr who via hardison though, so perhaps the actor of the current doctor, ncuti gatwa. now, there’s also famous thieves, BUT they’re generally only famous because they eventually got caught. parker does not get caught. she would not idolise someone who ended up caught. maybe the thief of an unsolved heist. honestly, parker is famous in the leverage crime world. so. herself? not that she enjoys being a celebrity lol.

[scoobydoodean]

I was thinking about Sam running off to Flagstaff in relation to Dean going to Sonny's. Must have been about the same time if Sam was 12.

So is it that no one was super concerned when Dean 'was missing' for months so Sam thought his 2 week adventure was no big deal.

Or was Dean left at Sonny's as punishment for losing Sam.

Neither paint a great picture of John, but the first does make Sam's attitude to running away more understandable (plus John's constant disappearing act wouldn't help). Either way, I think s5 sam is still immature enough to think 'you left, dad left, whys it only a problem when I do'.

So, 5.16 doesn't mention Sam's age when he ran away, but I estimated around 12 because of 11.08 "Just My Imagination", and how it centers around Sam considering running away for the first time as a kid. Though it isn't to get away from their dad—it's neglect that drives him, and then he ends up leaving to find and join John and Dean on their hunt without John's permission to try and prove himself. I actually went back to double check though, and 11.08 takes place in 1992, so Sam was actually around 10. This doesn't give us a very solid timeline—just enough to say Flagstaff probably happened after Sam turned 10. "Bad Boys" takes place in 1995, when Sam is around 12. Sam's dietary preference for "Funions and Mr. Pibb" probably still suggests he was young—from 10-13 when Flagstaff happened—because by 1997 flashbacks in 4.13 "After School Special", Sam has settled on college as his method of escape, and I don't think his hopes for full ride scholarships mesh with plots to run away and have to fend for himself. In fact, I am fairly certain Sam spent all of high school with his nose stuck in a book at every possible moment. Having to worry about his own food or lodging or the lack of credentials being a runaway wouldn't be logical in achieving his goal.

It's very possible Flagstaff happens after "Bad Boys", but it's also possible it happens before. That said, the story John told Sam about Flagstaff was that Dean got lost on a hunt, and John had to go and find him. He dropped Sam off at Bobby's for a couple of months, making Sam think John was actually searching for Dean that whole time:

Yeah. Uh, y-you disappeared. Dad came back. You were gone. He shipped me off to Bobby's for a couple months and went and… found you. You were lost on a hunt or something.

Did "Lost on a hunt" mean John told Sam that Dean got captured by a monster, or that Dean left Sam alone to hunt on his own...? Hard to say.

That said, we also get this nugget from Dean in 14.12 "Prophet and Loss":

I know things got dicey… you know, with dad… the way he was. And I just… I didn’t always look out for you the way that I should’ve. I mean, I had my own stuff, you know. In order to keep the peace, it probably looked like I took his side quite a bit. Sometimes when I was… when I was away, you know it wasn’t ‘cause I just ran out, right? Dad would… he would send me away when I really pissed him off. I think you knew that.

I have no beef with Sam running away, as I have said a couple of times now. I don't care if Sam runs away. In the case of Flagstaff—kids, especially, run away. I just think that from Dean's side, what hurts the most is that Sam never thinks back and reexamines running away to Flagstaff as an adult, and thinks about how dangerous it was, and how terrified Dean must have been, and how angry their father must have been with Dean.

[quietwingsinthesky]

still thinking about aro!dean btw. thinking about that passage in john’s journal where he laments that at dean’s age, he had a wife and kids while dean is a hunter. and like. do you think john ever told him that? i imagine he did, set the scene, he’s drunk and dean has been pulling his boots off before bed since he was seven years old and now he’s in his twenties, still that boy taking care of his father, and john is apologizing for once. for how dean didn’t get the chance for what he had (except even now, all this mourning is framed around dean, but it’s not about dean, it’s about john, what he lost and can’t get back) and dean is listening to his father tell him he should’ve had a wife, should’ve had kids, should’ve had a house and the whole nine yards.

because more than the rest of the world telling dean what he should have, should want, his father crying to him that he ruined it all is gonna dig it’s claws into his head the most.

maybe john doesn’t even remember it in the morning. dean does.

so now that hangs over him, too. every feeling of ‘this isn’t quite right, isn’t what I’m comfortable with’ has to contend with the knowledge that his dad felt guilt he couldn’t have it. (compound that with sam’s request at the end of s5, and of course he ends up on lisa’s doorstep. it’s what they thought he wanted, so they told him to take it once he was free, but in doing so, culled his freedom down to a backyard and a shared bed with someone he barely knows and tries to love the way he should.)

and most importantly of all, obviously, I’m thinking about dean getting older. about how the weight of his father never really falls off, but he gets better at carrying it. and he can say to himself, he’s long past the point where he should’ve gotten all that stuff in order anyway. might as well work with what he’s got. (while what he’s got makes him happier than the life john imagined he stole ever could have.) new freedom that comes with aging out of expectation, in a way. a space to build his own life. and so one day, when dean the age john was when he wrote about it in his journal, he’s doesn’t feel like he missed out on anything at all.

[tkbrokkoli]

time for some rambling!!!! im excited to participate in fandom again where you have to wait for the next episode. this is just gonna be some incoherent sleep deprived rambling for myself, so nothing serious.

anyway so murder mystery, wow! that was v interesting and not what i expected. i saw some fanart of the different characters involved before listening to the episode and i imagined it would be like a. ball??? like where royalty is invited to dance and have a fun time. not a the last man standing can behold the blackstone murder mystery thing. ive read ppl saying arthur has the bubonic plague but that wasnt actually mentioned? he could have tuberculosis as well?? i think you can actually cough up blood there? and like. isnt the bubonic plague w/o antibiotics deadly? but whatever it is he needs antibiotics and im p sure they weren't invented in that timeline yet as well. he's already died in s5 right, i think a double death would be A Lot. then again i actually was kinda expecting him to die in that episode bc i saw fanart of him in the waylay and parker was there so i thought it would be revealed that parker is waiting for arthur in the afterlife but apparently that is not canon (yet?). also i read sm abt arthur and john saying i love you to each other that i thought the episode would have a moment of them saying it as well but nope lol. it's funny how being in the tag while trying not to be spoiled can prime your expectations. im also surprised that the blackstone is already so close? i expected it to be far away and reached only in the next season for some reason? then again it makes sense that kayne would send arthur and john as close to getting the blackstone as possible, right. the blackstone, kayne, mother darkness, mr scratch, they must all be connected w each other somehow, right? is there gonna be a big showdown? probably. is oscar's letter even still legible after arthur's dive into the witch's pond? it feels p cruel after s4, like what i mean is in s1, s2, and s3 it was just arthur and john against the world and in s4 he finally made some human connections and friends only to have it all ripped away from him again. i still hope that the last ever ep of malevolent will just be arthur and john having a normal nice day, eg watching a movie like john wanted to, getting a full night's sleep, having a nice meal etc. w/o any horrors but the listeners still expect Some horrors to creep up so we're all on edge until the end of the episode and then we'll cry from relief and happiness. idk how realistic this is. anyway. i can't believe it was only 4 weeks ago when i started malevolent lol. im glad i did! it's super well done and impressive and also touches topics that other media i've checked out so far hasn't touched on.

[terrence-silver]

Been thinking about during the hug scene in nam between terry and John after that while fighting to the death the ghost of Betsy and ponytail both hugged them from behind telling them to take care of each other

(but considering the horrible things in s4 and s5 with there divorce for the 5 time in the role we didn’t get happily evil after we got rank pulling and framing people and being jealous when idk that person could have noticed that other person was kind of upset about that person talking about the kid he choked in the parking lot,stole cobra Kai from after lying to him,karate wars and basically tried to kill him on multiply times but it okay because that his father figure or some shit so he gets a pass 😐 and he deserves to get redemption definitely🤨 but I’m going off track with my older John kreese cobra Kai hate because god damn the writer! ugh like work on cobra husband before you start with this whole kreese cares about Johnny bullshit

I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m going off track again I just aghhh like how did the writers fuck up a friendship that was ride or die and made to people were pulling ranks and throwing people in jail and 😭😭😭 leaving a person for 35 years like are you kidding me

But yes yes let’s turn there whole friendship around a whole 180 to cause drama

I’m sorry but kk3 John would have opened up his damn eyes and saw terry was jealous tho and young kreese to because he is self aware of terry mood change and I know it who am I kidding I don’t even think it jealousy I think it feeling abandoned by John for someone else

I’m sorry but that whole john cares more about Johnny then he does terry it just it doesn’t make sense to me considering all the hell those two went back and forth for each other I’m sorry but I don’t think John has fought to the death for Johnny no he has actually killed him in his Hullucation and you know imagine himself in his knees infornt of his quote “war buddy, best friend,the cobra to his Kai,his sugar daddy since nam,the boy he fought to the death for and always saying he didn’t owe him anything but apparently the writers fucked that up in s4 because pulling ranks and triggering ptsd is definitely the way to go good job kreese especially when terry looks so cute in his hoodie 😔

Ahem! Going back to what I was saying before I just ramble off sorry that happens)

And that John feels like that he kind of redeemed himself by saving Terry since he couldn’t save ponytail and Betsy

There 🙂

Oh, sweetie. 🫂

[stanfordsweater]

happy wincest wednesday! what's your favorite wincest ep for each season?

a big ask!! thank you for this one, i am going to have a very hard time deciding but it'll be fun to sort through them all--

s1: so, so many. i’m going to have to go with something wicked, for all the lovely understanding sam comes to about dean in that episode-- it’s fantastic watching him be so soft towards dean when dean tells him what happened, and it’s an ep where we see the seeds john sowed to shape the boys around each other. fabulously written and so fucked up. runner-up goes to faith for showing the way sam desperately works to save dean, and for “he was probably gonna die anyway.”

s2: WAAAY too many to choose from, so runner up goes to every single episode-- i’m going with born under a bad sign for this one, because i am weak like soggy paper when a character is unable to stop the one they love even when they probably really should. dean walked in on this:

and imagining what jo’s thinking in that moment, when she’s narrowly escaped sexual violence and death, and dean can’t help her because it’s sammy? 🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌

s3: time is on my side, for that scene where sam is talking about maggots while dean’s eating just to tease him, and he’s so delighted about it. also for the immortal corpse-brothers we almost got. doc benton is a fantastic villain who i wish they could have done more with, and i loved the way he tried to make them an offer they can’t refuse. so much excellence and “how are you gonna stop me?” UUUUGH 🐳

s4: fucking every episode, are you kidding me? this season is dripping in fucked-up dark romance between these two. dysfunction and desire galore, sam fucking a corpse because she reminds him of dean and he can’t function with his guilt and his need for his brother, dean’s betrayal and slowly growing resentment without being able to let him go-- if anything will convince people that sam and dean are erotically obsessed with each other, it has to be this season. predictably, i’m going for sex and violence. need i explain?

s5: season five is my least favourite season to rewatch 😬 going off my spotty memory from two years ago, i’m choosing the end for the conversation sam and dean have before the credits roll. <3

s6: you can’t handle the truth, for how desperately dean wants to believe that there’s nothing wrong with sam. truthfully, there’s a ton of great shit with soulless sam, but the scene where he lies to dean and then turns away and his expression just drops is in my top scenes of the entire show, with how dean is crying right in front of him so torn up over the last ep and so grateful that sam didn’t allow him to get turned-- and then the blow up at the end of the episode? delicious.

s7: another one that’s a little difficult for me, but i’m going with party on garth exclusively for the scene where sam and dean get drunk and silly together because i love it <3

s8: there’s a ton of fantastic wincesty moments in this season, but they’re usually in episodes where there’s a lot of other stuff going on. sacrifice is obvious, so obvious it’s cheating, so i’m going with goodbye stranger for so many reasons-- how delighted dean is when sam teases him about his porn addiction, and then his worry when he sees sam’s bloody tissue-- brotherly banter!! most importantly, this is the episode where dean says this:

there’s also that scene in taxi driver where we see how hard it is for dean to kill benny, but how he does it anyway just because he needs sam.

s9: i am everybody’s favourite season nine stan 🙏 i will forever be obsessed with this season for it’s heartbreak and all the wild punches it throws. i’m choosing blade runners for this, which is a super underrated episode. sam is pissed the hell off at dean, and he’s murderous with crowley, but he doesn’t let that stop him from saving his brother. the hints we get that sam isn’t giving up on their relationship in this episode set up the rest of the season as well as his unstoppable drive in season ten. the finale is my TRUE fave from this season, but blade runners tells the story in a fabulously subtle way.

s10: my, my, my. mark of cain my dearly beloved. SO much good shit. my rewatch is stalled about halfway through, so while i’d choose a later episode, at the top of my mind is the things we left behind for this:

HELLO???? there are so many choice moments in season ten for sam just being The Most, but the face cradling and the way sam goes right for dean and begs him to say he had to do it... kisses for all the writers.

s11: everything :D season 11 fed us SO good. going off of my season ten choice, though, i’m choosing safe house for sam bodily cradling dean at the end, with his huge sigh of relief when he has him in his arms, and for being the person dean sees. i mean, look at this romance:

gifs from here, go reblog it

s12: regarding dean because i’m on a huge protective sam kick in this post, apparently. sam is so worried ;~;

s13: a most holy man, for the super cute brotherly banter in that episode, and both of them looking sexy as hell. they for sure banged after that ep.

s14: nihilism, for the way that sam appearing immediately begins to break the fantasy dean’s trapped in, the way cas pleading with dean changes nothing, and the fact that one of dean’s happiest memories in his mindscape is from sex and violence??? proof that sam and dean fucked that episode #real

s15: controversial of course but carry on is all i can say because most of this season is bonkers.

[penelopesodyssey]

My opinion on a possible Sherlock S5

So, I kinda forgot I have a tumblr account lol. But anyways, let me hop on the BBC Sherlock bandwagon because I've just finished rewatching s4 for the millionth time. And here's what I think about a possible s5

I think that s5 will not be possible - and it's not even necessary. Some spoilers ahead so please proceed with caution.

Let's be real, the whole storyline since s3 finale has been ridiculous. From Mary turning out to be an undercover assassin, to Sherlock's sister Eurus appearing out of nowhere - firstly posing as John's "friend over text messages", then as his new therapist, then as Faith, then as a little girl on a plane, but plot twist! She's been locked at Sherrinford for years!

I kinda feel like both Assassin!Mary and Eurus came out of nowhere. In Doyle's original stories, Mary is just a normal girl who meets and falls in love with John on a case, and I don't even remember Sherlock having a sister in the original stories.

I understand that the writers wanted to put a twist on the original stories and make this series unique - and I could somehow understand the Assassin!Mary storyline. I could not, however, understand, how she managed to still be friends with Sherlock after she LITERALLY SHOT HIM AND DRUGGED HIM. And then her pathetic death scene in The Six Thatchers. Even though she was trying to redeem herself the whole time, I found her annoying and it made me change my previously positive opinion about her.

Now let's talk about Eurus... Where do I even start? She made NO DAMN SENSE. I found her character ridiculous and the whole series has been ruined with her character. Making all those traps and tricks, driving Sherlock insane, playing with his emotions... It was a disaster.

MORIARTYYYYYYYY. Seriously, he was the best villain. He should have been more in the show. Or even Irene Adler. They were such great intellectual equals for Sherlock and it's such a bad how they only get thrown around for references, especially Moriarty with all that fake foreshadowing - ohh, he's coming, HAHA JUST KIDDING, THAT WAS 5 YEARS AGO

And the ending of The Final Problem. I guess after suffering a traumatic experience, all of them just... went back to normal lives and old-school murder mysteries, right? If series 5 is ever announced, I could not imagine it going back to normal.

Because The Final Problem is exactly what the title says. It's Sherlock's final battle. It's supposed to wrap up the whole show. I can't even see how they would continue with ideas after this disaster. Even if s5 ever happens, the show won't be the same.

That's enough for tonight. I'll get back to tumblr, dw.

[hxdgins]

messy thoughts

it's very funny to me how some (let's hope it's not that many) people think either Beth or Rip are gonna die in the second part of s5. Whilst i don't know why people think that, i assume it's because of the amount of flashback of Rip and his relationship with John and Beth, we got in the first part of s5, and i'm just here thinking that we got that amount of flashback because they knew in advance that Kevin will likely depart from the show soon, or he had already made it known to everyone that this would be his last season.

My thoughts are: John in s2 or even s4 changed his will to add Rip, [i'm thinking could be 4 because bethrip were engaged and with how s3 ended and s4 started.. and also i'm thinking maybe he could have taken jamie out, but that seems unlikely because he still loves him] and Rip and Kayce will likely take over the ranch together, kinda confirmed with how the first part of s5 ended, John discussed it with both Rip and Kayce, not just with Kayce? So back to my thought, i think the writers had to give us a lot more context to Rip background and his relationship with John, Lloyd and deeper meaning with Beth. Because whilst we've known since the pilot and further just with s1, how loyal Rip is to John, the ranch, we didn't know until s5 why John was also [as much] loyal to Rip. He legit gave that man a cabin? Called him a son in s2? When in that same season he told Beth that he already had a son and that son is Kayce? Obviously John loyalty and love for Rip is rooted in Rip being loyal to him first and always being there for his family and having killed several people for his daughter...

BUT i truly don't think either Rip nor Beth are gonna die in the second part of the season. I personally would rather see Jamie dead.. and if you don't agree i don't care. Like there is a lot of reason why Jamie could end up dead, he put a bounty on Beth's head... which? He isn't at all loyal to the Dutton.. he is only loyal to himself, Rip hasn't yet found out about what he did to teenage Beth and i fear that might be also one of the reason why he ends up dead. Also that woman he is sleeping with, doesn't care about him, further than caring that she is sleeping with a Dutton to get to what she wants.. And through that he can easily become collateral damage? I think Jamie has more likeliness to die than either Beth and Rip, the writers has given us too much of them to turn around and kill them and let Jamie alive? but that's maybe because i'm biased and i love them.

i mean i say all that and imagine them doing a 180 and just killing the golden boy Kayce? or just killing John because Kevin is not coming back?

[dirtydancingdean]

✨ fic recs ✨

ok so back in like 2014 i watched supernatural for a solid 3 years until they killed kevin and charlie and i got bored of the bmol storyline. now im here again let’s not talk about it. BUT during this time i accumulated a Lot of fic and in the past two months i’ve gone through all 213 of my bookmarks and gone through like every rec list made after s12 in order to read fic set during every specific season while i rewatch the show. because im insane <3 im on s8 rn and wanted to share my list of favourites from each season so far as well as my favourite aus ! they’re all generally nsfw so minors be careful, and also check the warnings ! and i will update this when i finish s15 <3

aus

asunder by rageprufrock (23.8k, e, background samruby)

obviously the most perfect thing to ever exist. 

and this, your living kiss by opal_bullets (56k, m, background saileen)

poet dean fic need i say more. part dean studies if dean studies was elaborated on lovingly in detail for 56k words, part gorgeous and beautiful poetry, part incredibly clever commentary on meta and fan allusions, and part stunning exploration of the relationships in the show turned on their heads.  

one white little lie by komodobits (11k, gen)

this is SOOO cute. cas is so embarrassing i was covering my face the entire time i was reading it. if u want to be cheered up. read this. 

broadway musical by griftings (12k, m)

this is genuinely sooo funny. big “castiel did you fuck the michael sword” energy and jimmy novak as that “am not against gays” tweet, plus jo <3

c-s-t-l by komodobits (90k, m)

i haven't read this in a while but from what i remember it was incredible and also had cassie <3 

rest is under the cut because it got long fhjfkfklf

pre-series/season 1-3*

a turn of the earth by microcomets (time travel, 95k, standford era, m)

i think everyone’s read this at this point but if u haven't. what are u doing. go read it. it’s absolutely everything i reread it in the week before the finale without remembering half of the stuff it talked about and i was a WRECK. if u think about standford era dean every day read this. cas punches john winchester in the FACE. 

geography by aeli_kindara (3k, teen and up, warnings for discussion of rape/non-con and prostitution)

not dean/cas but a really wonderful and needed conversation with sam and dean during 2x02.

season 4

so says the sword by komodobits (85k, e)

yeah. i dont need to say anything.  

consequences of falling by fayjay (37k, e, background samruby, warnings for rape/non-con)

THISSSS FIC. pls it’s perfect literally everything i wanted when i was watching s4 and obsessed with love as an act of worship + ruby and cas parallels. ruby and cas get drunk together! ruby says this: “dean and castiel sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. First comes love, then comes the fall from grace, then comes battling the hosts of hell and wishing that you’d managed to get your skinny ass laid before the freaking apocalypse”! what more could u want!

named by rc_machlan (94k, m)

literally the best fic in the world i am not going to say Anything if you love dean and angels and the mythology of s4-s5 that was promptly dropped, you absolutely have to read this.

four people ruby seduced & one she actually fell for (or: ruby's epic love affair with humanity in general and sam in specific) by tuesday (3.7k, e, samruby, ruby/jo)

this is more background deancas than anything else and does contain brief, not romantic in any way dean/ruby and dean/cas, but like. if u love ruby (which i do) u have to read this.

season 5

final fantasy by orange_crushed (1.9k, m)

endverse.....this made me want to die

the (mostly accidental) courtship of dean winchester by tuesday (11k, m)

a classic for a reason. really cute and soft and the handprint and cas beating dean up in 5x18 are angelic marriage rites. what more could you ask for.

the girlfriend experience by rageprufrock (15k, explicit)

of Course i mean of COURSE. thee s5 deancas fic.

strike me down and i’ll come back more powerful than you can possibly imagine by trinityofone (10k, gen)

post 5x22 dean and cas rescue sam from hell with the help of some special guests. PERFECT. the only valid good omens crossover.

season 6**

something stupid by zatnikatel (20k, e)

this broke my heart and put it back together. one of my favourite cas characterizations, takes place over s5-s6 and it’s just stunning. 

a crash course in someone else’s history by annie d (11k, teen and up)

s4 cas ends up in the body of cas in 6x20. fucking life-ruining.

season 7

make known by domesticadventures (16k, teen and up)

this is a really heartbreaking look at dean’s headspace near the end of s6 and throughout s7, and it’s really wonderful with a hopeful ending.

redemption road by a whole bunch of people (652k, virtual season, explicit)

oh boy. ok. know ur herstory ! this was written from 2011 to 2012 and it is thee s7 fic, a virtual season written by 17 fans all together. it’s very very long and it suffers sometimes from having being written a decade ago, but im making my way through it right now and it still fucking holds up. i really do recommend reading at least some of it, you can stop around halfway through and you should be fine.

season 8***

rinse, repeat by ias (3k, teen and up)

exploration of cas when naomi forces him to kill copies of dean and then his perspective in goodbye stranger.

my keeper by whelvenwings (5k, gen)

another goodbye stranger fic, this time with bonus artist cas!

though the course may change by imogenbynight (51k, e)

au after 8x23. i love this fic so much. dean accidentally ends up making himself have to go undercover with cas and pretend to be fake engaged. also, charlie and kevin. do i need to say more.

apres by imogenbynight (24k, e)

au after 8x23 where dean goes to find cas after the angels fall in paris 🥺

*i have found exactly one bela fic that i loved, and zero henriksen fics that i loved, so IF u have recs for those. i would appreciate that.

**mostly the s6 fics i read were uh...vampire dean fics...

***have found one (1) good dean/aaron fic but im still searching for the perfect purgatory crew fics 

[skayafair]

Wait whaa- I didn't know about season 5 news. Excuse me kindly, but what's the point of making a whole season one knows fans would hate?..

Now, to me it wouldn't have been a big surprise if the two parted their ways in case of a happy-er ending (which I think we all know is unlikely). It's only healthy to not be this intertwined, and they both need space, and S4 John desperately needs to go through a separation (I enjoy him being jealous and bitching out and all other things but he doesn't seem to be as eager to get a body and live a life anymore, which is, well, understandable, with trauma of going back to the King, seeing Arthur nearly die because of him, nearly losing Arthur again several times after Kayne brought them back together... yes I can see why he's so attached now, it's possible, but I DON'T like if it's going to be left like this or go downhill. He IS stronger than that, ffs). I don't really mind it. But I want both characters to get to the resolution of their respective arcs, and "John is a monster" isn't one of them, saying otherwise sounds like gaslighting. Like "you don't understand what it all really meant, you've read it all the wrong way!". No sir.

I can see one way this "John's been bad all the way" thing can play out - I've mentioned it as the 1st path I hope HG won't take. Because, well... John didn't really sacrifice or risk anything from the beginning, and all his fears are or can be ascribed to dreading the Dark World. He really doesn't want to go back there, and that sounds 100% true to me.

Because let's just imagine he never wanted to become human, the objective to regain his former self never wavered, and he just is a very good liar. Why didn't he reunite with the King in 12? As far as I understand it was mostly Arthur who stopped him from that. In 20 - he did. The King is all about theater and drama, and drama there was, to one's heart content. Because this possibility has been sitting at the back of my mind all the time I keep forgetting why everyone says they both sacrificed themselves for each other back then. And even in S3 Kayne seems to think John cares for Arthur only because he needs a ride and a corpse is no use. John doesn't exactly deny it.

So this is possibility. But it's so fucking boring. And generally Malevolent is anything but boring.

Also HG seems to have a weird attitude towards the second non-human protagonist/helper turned evil. The MC (whom I can't like emotionally, as a person, in neither podcast, although Arthur has my curiosity and compassion) is always shown as "good", even if he stumbles and makes terrible things. The other one - John, Dad - seems to have broader limits of morals and stuff due to their nature, and the way they are presented, explored, what they aspire for - they are genuenly NOT terrible beings to me. I was furious in the end of The Deviser because the podcast made Dad to seem like... I don't even know, but certainly a terrible villain. And he wasn't! It was painful to see the character with a backstory like his being treated this way. If now the same happens to John, who I've grown WAY more attached to... that will be a pity, to say the least. But I see a pattern - both Dad and John serve to explore the topics of humanity's nature and limits, but looks like the creator can't accept them as... well, themselves, can't forgive them their mistakes... Honestly it looks to me like being unable to accept one's shadow. Sorry if it's far-fetched but it kind of sticks out to me ever since The Deviser and that "John is a monster" comment.

So thanks for mentioning the S5 news, I'll take it as a much needed trigger warning and will brace myself 🫠

I've just noticed the longest season we had was 12 episodes and it's been 10 in S4. So, are we getting closer to the end of it? Can the whole Scratch situation resolution be the season finale?

Also the pacing this season is so slow - or rather the attention is so dispersed between the Order of the Fallen Star search, the Butcher, Scratch, Daniel and other new characters that there has barely been any progress plot-wise. I'm totally for it, why not, except we've been told there are only 6 seasons planned. Leaving us with just 2, which are about 24 - or maybe 30, if we're lucky, - episodes.

I've reread that post with questions from the previous seasons and I don't believe we are going to have most of them answered. But what's worse, I'm very not sure the story can be ended properly and satisfyingly in a span of just 2 seasons the way it is now.

Especially if John is going to end up as a villain. I can even see a few ways he could, but the 1st one would suck because it's pretty stupid and I hope HG doesn't go down this road, and the 2nd is that John has been growing more codependent over the course of the 3rd season and that may result in some very nasty things. Which I honestly don't like either because this whole character has been about a totally different thing for the most of the show, whatever HG could be saying. So driving him down that path and be done with it would be just bad writing. And HGs writing is often inconsistent, but I wouldn't call it bad. To me it looks rather good storytelling and characters-wise. So I have some hope it'll end... even if not well - with a show like Malevolent a happy ending is the most unexpected, that's what all the fics are for, - but in a satisfying manner.

Then I recall The Deviser and how I hated the ending again and the hope gets unstable.

[lotstradamus]

Top 5 supernatural episodes to rewatch

YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO SUPERNATURAL NOSTALGIA.MEME

5.04 The End: for starters, this was the first episode of Supernatural I watched as it aired. imagine. for seconds, THIS. EPISODE. HAS. EVERYTHING. hippie Cas with his thigh holster and his orgies, 2009 Dean yelling at 2014 Dean and vice versa, LUCIFER!SAM. “you’ve changed” bro I watched Lucifer wearing Sam wearing that white suit in the rose garden... honestly it’s just a real all-rounder: angel nonsense, time travel, Croatoan throwback, major character death, tie-in to the major arc. not to mention it spawned s e v e r a l subgenres of fic -- 2009 Dean/2014 Cas, 2009 Dean/2014 Dean, 2014 Cas/Dean Smith (see #4 for full details) -- and that’s what you really want from an episode. 

4.14 Sex and Violence: YYYOOOOO. I will always love this episode. a siren is morphing itself into dudes’ dream women, dosing them with Obey The Siren juice via saliva, fucking their brains out, and then getting them to kill their closest loved one... and Dean’s siren is a dude. I have seen people be-heeennd over backwards to somehow make that Not A Gay Thing, but listen: HIS SIREN IS A DUDE. HEWWO? HEWWO???

4.01 Lazarus Rising: [clutches chest] [eyes fill with tears] I’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition. kadsjlsdkjfjg

4.17 It’s A Terrible Life: this episode is amazing for so many reasons and it’s got LAYERS. LAYERS AND LAYERS. the whole ‘this is who you would be if you weren’t a hunter, Dean!’ thing encompasses a multitude, MAINLY that Dean blink-and-you’ll-miss-it mentions that his parents names are Bobby and Ellen, so it’s actually a This Is Who You Would Be If You Weren’t Raised By John Winchester, Dean thing. AND LOOK AT HIM. LOOK AT HIM! snappily dressed, eats healthy, doesn’t drink beer, drives a regular company car, watches Project Runway, implies that he hooks up with dudes at the health club... it doesn’t take a lot for me to be like Actually, this is a nod to how being brought up by a stereotypically masculine father caused Dean to overcompensate and repress major parts of himself! but actually this is a nod to how being brought up by a stereotypically masculine father caused Dean to overcompensate and repress major parts of himself.

6.20 The Man Who Would Be King: I’m a s1-s5 purist, but Ben Edlund always gets a pass. and this episode... phew. everyone’s talking about how Castiel being in love with Dean has JUST been made canon but honestly we been knew. a lot -- A LOT -- happens in this episode, Crowley cracks some excellent gay jokes, Dean’s voice breaks when he says “you gotta look at me, man” (sob), but the REAL kicker is that you find out that while Dean was like ‘we stopped the apocalypse, Sam is dead, Cas is gone, and I am living a normal man life’ Castiel was standing invisibly in Lisa’s garden, wistfully watching Dean rake leaves. HE WATCHED DEAN RAKE LEAVES. WHO DOES THAT? [TWO MEN IN LOVE BY THE IRREPRESSIBLES PLAYING SOFTLY IN THE DISTANCE] 

the worst thing about this is that I didn’t have to look up a single episode number or title :( lmao :( 

[deepdonutkid]

Ok opinion about John and Lizzso. S1 relationship ? And if he had lived, how do you think he would have reacted to her and Tommy in s4 & s5.

Thanks anon for this ask! I will call Lizzie in the futur more often Lizzso, because that sounds extremly funny XD YASS, QUEEN LIZZSO and I know it’s a typo, but gosh, I love this typo!

I think about John & Lizzie... a lot, maybe even too much. With the setting they had, like they wanted to marry, but we barely see them as a couple... or never see them as a couple, it’s so interesting to think about those two.

The only interaction we get from these two are only after they have broken up, but they are still very friendly and compassionate about each other, which says a lot about how they were as a couple.

Every time I try to imagine them, while still being in a relationship, I picture them as friends. Talking a lot about problems and how to solve them. They are not really affectionate with each other, because of how things have started with them. It’s very likely John was a former client, who thinks he developed feelings for her, because he is sleeping with her.

A lot of people think, John is a fuckboy, and I doubt that. Even Arthur is more fuckboy than John, because Arthur acutally fucks around a lot. Let me elaborate on this:

John married young and got four kids... what a fuckboy thing to do... Just kidding, it just shows how soft John really is. I mean, neither Arthur nor Tommy married before war and neither of them had children. I think John chose this life for him, because he wanted to. He loved Martha, he loved having a family and he chose this for himself, because he likes being a father and husband. Everything around him is chaos and family is what gives his life structure and stability.

And as a man around this time, he had the choice to marry or not to marry. He could have had a completely fine life, without the trouble of getting kids. If he got Martha pregnant, before they got married, he could have also talk to her about abortion, but... he married her and raised three other kids with her.

That’s why, he is not a fuckboy ... and that’s my opinion.

So after the war John is confronted with the problem of raising four kids... alone. He knows that’s too much for him to handle alone. I bet he was sleeping with Lizzie, to just get his mind off his problems, but it was still there, everytime he was with her. And he thinks to himself: “There is this great woman, I have known all my life, who knows me, knows what life I live, still accepts me, talks with me and gets along with my children... could that be the solution to my problem?”

A part of him also wants to feel a deep connection between them, which they don’t have... not in a romantic way. John wants to sleep with a woman, he is bonded to, because that makes sex better for him and he performs better, if he is fucking somebody he loves. Love makes sex a lot better and he could fuck around all Small Heath, like Tommy and Arthur did, but that doesn’t do it for him. It’s good sex, but not fantastic or really satisfying. It’s something to calm his nerves. (Tommy does that too, but he is so cold-hearted he doesn’t bother to seek after a romantic relationship)

But why do I think, he didn’t had a romantic relationship with Lizzie? Well... because Lizzie sees him different and she is different than him. John was her client first, so all she is going to see in him... is a customer. John is a duty for her. Tommy on the other hand... I think she always had a crush on him and she is still hung up on the time before war and thinks someday she might get a happy end with him... but then they get married and she learns he will never be hers.

Lizzie and John are really good platonic friend with each other and I still want to write (actually it’s a work in progress) a fic, with a focus on their dynamic before or in season 1. John didn’t make a romantic marriage proposal and if he did... Lizzie laughed it off. It’s more likely both of them had a clean discussion about how a marriage could fix a lot of their problems. They both rationally agreed on this and then John went to tell his family about, even though he knew Tommy and the others would laugh about this plan... because clearly John isn’t the thinker of the family.

And when John learned from Tommy about Lizzie’s plans to keep working as a prostitute, he feels betrayal, because she could have told him. But instead she went behind his back and made him look like a fool. If they talked about it, they would have figured out something, that works for both of them. So John understands, he hasn’t found a partner in her... that’s not the same thing he had with Martha.... that’s not love and Lizzie is clearly not in love with him. Or why would she still sleep with other men, if she was in love with John? If she loved John, she would have a lot more faith in him, that things would work out finacially and she doesn’t have to work anymore.

John goes to Lizzie and calls the whole thing off. Lizzie realised, she is relieved, because she didn’t love John nor did she wanted to marry him. She is in love with somebody else and around that time she notices how strong her feelings are for a certain Shelby brother... who isn’t John.

Both of them go back to being friends and stop sleeping with each other, because John can’t sleep with her knowing, she is screwing others as well.

AND NOW... let’s go back to the question... if John would have survived the shooting in season 4, how would he react to Lizzie’s and Tommy’s relationship?

John as we all know him.. has a quick temper and is very hot-headed... He would be furious.

At first at both of them. He would shout and yell and when he doesn’t have the energy to do that... He would start to ignore them. keep all this hate inside him.

But then Lizzie would confront him about this and would probably say something like: “I don’t have a choice.. I want to keep the baby and therefore I have to marry him.”

John would go like: “Yeah, I know why you want to keep it. You have always loved him and not me. (bitch)”

Lizzie on the other hand would retort: “what’s so wrong about that? I can’t choose who I love... That’s just happening to me.”

John: “Why him tho? My brother is a dick... he doesn’t treat you right. He would only marry you out of duty. He doesn’t give a fuck about you and he is going to hurt your feelings.”

Lizzie: “That’S my life and I’m going to make the decision. Fuck off.”

John: “alright, fuck off.”

They wouldn’t talk to each other for week, or more likely until the wedding. John had to be there, but he would be very silent, which is not quite like him, but he feels like the second he opens his mouth he is going to say something that would ruin Lizzie’s wedding day, but he still likes her too much to do that to her. So he keeps everything to himself.

Later he would drink and yell at Tommy for destroying Lizzie’s life and confront him in private about it. 

And he would be mad at Tommy for like a year at least, because he can’t forgive Tommy for treating Lizzie, the way Tommy does.... and it’s actually a good thing John died, before seeing them together, because I believe, John’s disagreements with Tommy would only become more violent, after Lizzie’s and Tommy’s marriage. And slowly John would start to hate Tommy... Not like John would actually plan to leave or do something against Tommy, but he would be bitter and resentful the whole time. He can’t leave Tommy, because they are brothers and John has a strong sense of family, but he would pick a fight with Tommy to every given chance.

He and Lizzie would be friends after a while, but his relationship with Tommy would be ruined.

[boys-night]

Mickey and Ian - communication, sex, and relationship styles, post 11x07

Here’s my take on how Ian and Mickey relate to sexuality and relationship styles, thinking mainly about 11x07, but also looking more broadly at the series and including HoS. If you’re not interested in incorporating 11x07 in your version of canon, ignore this! I enjoyed 11x07 but I understand people have different ways of seeing Ian and Mickey’s relationship. I’m also doing the classic meta thing of taking seriously exaggerated/comic/contradictory elements in the show because that’s how I roll. 

Super long post under cut. 

I’ve been reading Sexuality: A Graphic Guide by Meg-John Barker and Jules Scheele which is where a lot of the following ideas and terminology come from. I’ve also been looking at Meg-John Barker’s free relationship zine on their website rewritingtherules.com. I highly recommend their work, including the podcast they have with Justin Hancock, The Meg-John and Justin podcast (although MJ has left now and it’s called Culture, Sex, Relationships, but you can check out the backlog!) 

They think about sex and relationship styles using various models including monogamy/polyamory, allosexuality/asexuality, romance/aromance etc. They look at these different facets of sexuality/relationship styles as complicated continua rather than binaries which shift over time. They also write about sexuality on an action/identity spectrum, communication strategies around relationships styles, and the windows into relationships. Here, I’m looking at all of these things thinking about Ian and Mickey’s relationship and as individuals within the relationship. 

The monogamy/polyamory continuum

I’ve seen a bit of debate about how to label Mickey and Ian’s relationship on the monogamy/polyamory spectrum and I think it’s a pretty complex question especially considering those labels mean different things to different people and that relationships shift a lot over time. While labels like these can be useful, they can also be rigid and restrictive in their own ways. 

Some terms that come close-ish to what they say they’ve decided in 11x07 are monoamorous and polysexual, considering they aren’t at all interested in romantic connections outside of each other but are up for sex (in a broad sense) with other people. But these terms don’t account for the agreement that they’re only exploring sex with other people when they’re together. 

As people have pointed out, some of the boundary setting around exactly how they’re involving other people in the relationship is left off-screen, and also they’re not necessarily going to form identities around how they act in one episode. I’ve also seen people suggest reading their relationship style as monagamish and/or that what they do with other people is part of kink/play. I think these make sense in different ways and that in 11x07 Ian and Mickey definitely focus more on what they do (action) rather than who they are (identity) in regards to monogamy/polyamory. 

In 11x01, Ian’s focus is more on identity. He sets up a binary choice between being monagamous or not in their relationship. 11x07 indicates they’ve moved through off-screen discussion into a much more personalised arrangement with more focus on actions allowing for flexibility over time. In 11x07, we see them agree on rules: sex in a broad sense is allowed outside of the primary partnership, love isn’t. They keep negotiations ongoing (e.g. in the bedroom, in the furniture store), and there is an indication that these rules could change over time. 

I’d love to read/explore more about the ways in which this approach has changed over the course of the whole show. At the start of their relationship, definitely prior to s4, they have much more implicit rules about who they can have sex with, and those implicit rules become problematic in s5, when they realise they’re not completely on the same page regarding them. They bring up clashing ideas around the rules when Mickey’s leaving prison in s10 too. In s11, their relationship becomes more intentional, with these rules stated aloud rather than assumed. 

The action/identity continuum in regards to gay sexuality 

On a slight tangent, I think there’s a comparison to be made here to how they relate to sexuality (specifically gender of attraction) and the idea of gay identity, which seems to develop in the other direction. For Mickey especially, for a long time having sex with men was something he did rather than something he was, and that’s gradually somewhat shifted over the course of the show. There’s so much more that can be explored here, for instance, about how the action-based approach is much more acceptable within the hyper-masculine environment he was raised. Terry also approaches it this way when talking about prison sex, for example. According to this very oppressive social script, having sex with men in certain circumstances can be OK but claiming that as part of who you are is absolutely not. 

But I also want to stress, I don’t think either approach to gay sexuality, looking at it through actions or through identity, is inherently better or worse. These different lenses on sexuality also intersect with class and levels of education. As explored in Sexuality: A Graphic Guide, the identity approach is also relatively a very modern way of seeing sexuality (late 20th century). Gender of attraction is also only one facet of sexuality (which includes amount of sex you want, type of sex, sexual roles etc.) but its now often regarded as the only or most important facet of sexuality. The identity-based approach is much more acceptable within the more aspirational/middle class settings they interact with in s10 and s11. In these seasons, Mickey and to a lesser extent Ian aren’t completely willing to accept it wholesale. I like how, for example, even well after “coming out”, Mickey often still approaches sexuality through actions rather than identity, e.g. his response to the woman at the flower shop asking if he’s a homosexual: “He is, I just like having another man’s dick up my ass.”

However, I also think it’s cool/interesting how Ian and Mickey both move towards and embrace various parts of mainstream gay identity in s11 too, and a large part of that involves combatting the sexism, femmephobia, and hypermasculinity with which they were raised, e.g. of course, singing and dancing to Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande in the bathroom.  

You could also look at the different ideas about the origins of their gay sexuality in HoS through this lens. Mickey goes for a psychological/behavioural approach (based in like early 20th century sexological theories); Ian goes for a born-this-way, biological/genetic approach (popularised in the 1980s as part of gay pride movements). 

Mickey’s approach is very old school (definitely a way of thinking that reflects his upbringing), which assumes straight is the norm from which gay deviates, to do with Freudian theory/the idea of homosexuality as pathology. He doesn’t, for example, seek to use the same model (Fiona’s bad relationship history) to explain why Lip is straight. Ian’s approach (”not because I was born this way?”) reflects his investment in the intractability of sexuality related to his strict opposition to conversion therapy models and the idea of being gay as a choice. It also reflects the way he reacts negatively/disbelievingly to Debbie’s more flexible sexuality (in s8?). While obviously it’s fucked up/impossible to force people to change their sexuality and it’s perfectly reasonable for him to define the origins of his own sexuality however he wants, this approach risks excluding more fluid experiences of sexuality. 

Again, Mickey’s approach is more behavioural/action oriented and Ian’s is more identity oriented. They both seem pretty willing to shift their ideas around this though (especially Mickey, who potentially is just regurgitating old stuff he’s heard without thinking). The concluding thought is that Ian is gay because he likes Mickey’s d, lol. 

Individual differences on sex and relationship continua

I really like the detail that Ian doesn't want to have sex and be friends with anyone else aside from Mickey. In 11x07, he doesn't want to make friends with the guys in the locker room although he's down for repeat sexual experiences which suggests he thinks he forms romantic attachment through a combination of both sex and friendship. It seems like it's important to him in his negotiation with Mickey that they don't form romantic attachments outside of their own relationship.

This relates back to the 87% thing in HoS where Ian says he tends to get at least slightly attached to everyone he has sex with and Mickey has 87% of his heart. Mickey doesn’t like the 87% thing at all but I reckon it outlines a really interesting difference between the two characters in regards to relationship styles. It indicates that Ian is comfortable with a slightly less mononormative way of doing nurturance/care than Mickey, while Mickey seems to initiate more of the polysexuality than Ian in 11x07. (Although of course, we don’t see how Ian would react if Mickey were to tell him he’s got 87% of his heart! -- but this is a very difficult to imagine scenario).

Sex is a big part of their relationship for both of them. Both Ian and Mickey seem pretty allosexual (e.g. they feel sexual attraction for other people generally), but Mickey is possibly even more so than Ian. Mickey also maybe falls on the aromantic/grayromantic spectrum (once again, the labels can be really useful but I don’t want to be too prescriptive/rigid). Ian seems to be more alloromantic, with a capacity to experience romantic attraction to a whole bunch of people. For him, sex and romance seem to be more interconnected in all cases although he can definitely separate the two (especially when thinking about transactional sex etc).

But I think it's more complex than that. For instance, Mickey reserves certain sexual acts for just between him and Ian and its clear that they have both intimacy and exploration in their sex life. From the outset, Ian and Mickey’s relationship involves exploration and excitement with sex, and provides a freedom to explore their sexualities in regards to sexual roles and kink. It’s clear that Mickey values the safe space Ian specifically gives him in this regard from very early on in their relationship. There’s a parallel here with the bathroom Gaga/Grande scene where Ian’s instinct isn’t to tease or make fun of Mickey but support him embracing more stereotypical gay behaviours and/or more fluid gender roles to the ones he’s grown up with outside of sex too.

Also it might be useful to complicate the idea of romance itself which is a really difficult idea to pin down and which seems to mean different things for both of them. I love the stress on friendship in 11x07. Friendship and also family connection play such key parts in their relationship with one another and the way in which they are attached, arguably even more so than traditional models romance. Both HoS and the Hopper painting discussion are interesting to think about in regards to the ways Ian and Mickey think about the concept of romance differently and the ways it intersects with or differs from their ideas around friendship/family. I like how Mickey’s willing to see getting a coffee together as romantic in a positive way for instance after Ian explains that it’s about togetherness in hard times. While maybe Mickey sees Ian’s suggestion of having a bath together as awkward/weird because he views it more as trying to live up to a social script of what is “romantic”.

Communication strategies around relationship styles

In s11, Ian and Mickey’s relationship is very entwined, and, in comparison to Tami and Lip, for instance, they disclose a lot to each other. Ian asks that they tell each other everything, and although Mickey is more resistant to that initially, he becomes much more forthcoming with his feelings in s11 (around Terry, around moving to the West Side, around becoming a parent). 

While I appreciate Ian’s role in initiating more communication between the two of them, I felt sorry for Mickey in their initial discussion in 11x01 in re “monogamous or not”. The turning over the paper method is a pretty binary way to open up a discussion about a very charged and complicated thing. 

They do seem to complement each other in this regard though with Ian generally more keen to initiate conversation but also getting more trapped into binaries, narratives of normativity and should-stories. While Mickey totally still projects an image that is informed by local expectations around masculinity and white supremacy, he’s also a rule-breaker in many ways and doesn’t have the same desire to conform to what society perceives to be “normal” (thanks HoS), especially behind closed doors and within his relationship with Ian (“liking what I like don’t make me a bitch”).  @fiona-fififi had a really good point in the tags a while back about how Mickey’s investment in their wedding and its success might have spurred Ian on further to embrace more normative ways of doing relationships. This is super interesting, and also makes me think just about how being married itself prompts Ian to think about taking a more active role in pushing the relationship further up the relationship escalator and in pushing for more communication around these steps in general. 

There’s also something to be said about pressurising each other in 11x07, especially when they jokingly(?) threaten each other with sex with other men if both of them aren’t around. I doubt they were making these suggestions seriously but it definitely doesn’t strike me as the most consensual method of communication. But there’s parallels here with generally using sex as a bargaining chip earlier on in the season. Ian seems to do that after having exhausted his attempts at trying to have conversations around money/monogamy etc, as a tried and tested way of getting Mickey to engage with him. And it definitely reflects using sex with each other and sex/relationships with other people (e.g. s3 Angie/Ned, s10 Byron/Cole) as modes of communication in earlier seasons. It kind of makes sense that they still have these habits in s11 even if they are no longer the primary mode of communication. 

Ian and Mickey relied so much on implicit communication in the early seasons and they have highly developed nonverbal ways of communicating. I don’t want to say that either verbal or nonverbal ways of communicating are inherently better than the other. They seem to understand each other on a deep level, which is really cool, but people have pointed out can make them think they don’t need to verbally communicate when they do, because they assume that they’ll understand one another and be on the same page. It’s super interesting to see them maintain that deep connection and continue to use nonverbal cues while also adopting more explicit and intentional communication styles in s10 and s11. 

The windows of their relationship

The fandom is always bringing up how Ian and Mickey leave the doors open when they bang, lol, and also making fun of how much Ian overshares. I think this is v fair but it also strikes me as pretty healthy that he wants people to see into his and Mickey’s relationship, especially in his discussions with Lip. But Ian’s got plenty of people around him who can see and help when things get tough. 

In s11, it’s great to see Mickey get closer to the Gallagher family and see various members defending him or taking his side in arguments, but he definitely does have less of an on-screen support system than Ian. (I wish that they had developed his and Sandy’s relationship in s11). I think the aftermath of the City Hall incident in s10 really reveals this particular imbalance in their relationship. On one level, Mickey moves in with Byron as a reaction to being hurt and even maybe a strategy of revenge/manipulation, on another, he doesn’t really have anywhere to go aside from the Gallagher house when/if he needs to get away from Ian. Also, the way he retreats back to the Gallagher house when he can’t deal with the Westside is an interesting development of this in s11. 

Ian’s need to share stuff about their relationship is kind of exciting considering his history of being unforthcoming about his relationships (and his history of being in a lot of secret relationships), as well as how difficult he found it to talk about Mickey while Mickey was away. But there is a different problem with ongoing talk around privacy and boundaries here too (Mickey doesn’t want Ian to chat about how he’s not into rimming!). Although to be fair, Mickey also chats about a lot of explicit sex stuff with strangers. 

Although they do ultimately decide against pursuing the pretty inorganic way of making friends in 11x07, Ian’s desire to make gay friends who he can talk to about relationship stuff makes sense in terms of the way he has been pushing for a more intentional relationship with more communication and more explicit discussion and compromise this season (and last season too). It also intersects with an idea of him/both of them going further to embrace gay sexuality as an identity. 

It’s interesting that Mickey’s the one to initiate this decision through ribbing Ian about his relationship with Lip. Why’s Mickey doing that? Is it just to be a little shit or is he also trying (subconsciously?) to activate Ian in some direction? (And also, maybe there’s a parallel there to getting their apartment in the west side, where Mickey’s the one inadvertently introducing Ian to the idea by pushing for them to go play in the pool). 

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There’s a lot here which is just scratching the surface of thinking about Ian and Mickey’s relationship in the context of these different sexuality and relationship continua. For e.g. it would be really interesting to think more about this stuff in terms of shifting sex roles and kink exploration. Of course it’s all up for interpretation and I am sure I am highlighting areas that I’m personally interested in and inadvertently projecting myself/my own preferences and styles into this discussion. Very down for disagreements and discussions if other people are interested and manage to read all of this, lol.