Clear Bias towards Team Black(A lot of possible spoilers)
If you are against what I wrote and don't like it, then scroll or block me, idc, don't waste your time commenting and ridiculing me because trust me, for these opinions I've heard the same thing over and over again and you're not gonna change my mind by writing an angry comment. The comment will just be deleted and you blocked because not everyone wants to argue with someone in their comments. And for those who saw something similar on reddit, that's because I posted the same thing on reddit.
I've seen people online talk about how the screenwriters are not actually biased towards Team Black because they've made Team Green less vicious than in the books and made them sympathetic...and they're wrong in my humble opinion. This rant is gonna be long probably and my english is not the best so...
Starting off with Ryan Condal constantly talking about how the books are propaganda against Rhaenyra...why specifically Rhaenyra? He says it's because Rhaenyra is a woman. How that isn't enough to make it clear that he favours Team Black(the oh so feminist team) is beyond me. The books have always been about having morally grey characters which makes sense given that the story is set in medieval times and it's literally a world where dragons exist. So naturally they don't have the same morals as we have in real life at this point in time, so to us they will always be morally grey, as intended.
Also let's talk about the fact that even if they made Team Green more sympathetic they've also destroyed them in the process.
INTRODUCTION OF TEAM GREEN:
● For older Rhaenyra and Alicent where they've already been divided into Team Green and Team Black, Rhaenyra is introduced giving birth, obviously very much in pain and exhausted. And before they introduce adult Alicent, they talk about her asking for Rhaenyra's babe and then they show Rhaenyra walking around the Red Keep, with blood trailing after her and in obvious pain having just given birth...that's how they introduced Alicent. Literally her asking a woman, who has just given birth, to bring her babe(even tho she didn't ask for Rhaenyra but whatever).
● "Older" Criston Cole is introduced in the background barely, if at all, reacting when Rhaenyra walks around the Red Keep with blood trailing after her...
● Then young Aegon(in his teen years) is introduced bullying his younger brother, which by the way never happened in the books, if anything it was the Strong boys and Viserys. And then right after that, sexually humiliated and shown jerking out the window.
● And as for older Aegon they first show his victim Dyana, who we know what he did to(even tho this also never happened in the books), violently crying and extremely traumatized. And right after that, Aegon waking up(also once again sexually humiliated) and not caring for what he did referring to it as just some "harmless" fun. That's something the audience can't get over, that's how he was introduced, and a rapist is hard to be fond of(naturally) especially with how little, if at all, he cared. But it wasn't even about the victim in this scene, we don't get any elaboration on how Dyana dealt with it or even how the other maids reacted only Alicent's dossapointment in Aegon and her disowning him. ONLY THEN they choose to make him sympathetic, letting him cry and talk about how he will never be good anough for his parents and Alicent rolling her eyes RIGHT after he is introduced as a rapist. Making a character of one faction a rapist is the easiest way to make the other faction look better and be more likeable, no matter how sympathetic they make said character(Aegon) thereafter.
● Older Helaena is introduced walking in on her brother husband crying and her asking about the very woman her brother-husband just raped. That's all we know of her in the first scene.
● Older Aemond is introduced fairly badass, I didn't have a problem with that.
MAKING TEAM GREEN INSULT RHAENYRA JUST TO DISTRACT FROM CERTAIN THINGS....:
● While Alicent and Criston are talking about Rhaenyra committing High Treason and her father not giving a flying shit, they make Criston call her a spoiled cunt.
● They made Vaemond call Rhaenyra a whore just before they made Daemon kill him so it was kind of a "Ha! He had it coming moment", which I don't remember Vaemon doing in the books but sure go on(Also, in the books it was Rhaenyra that ordered Daemon to kill Vaemond before she had Syrax eat him and then yk what else...)
● Season two it kicked off amazingly and Aegon was definitely the most entertaining character for many. I don't think I need to elaborate on what I think about the B & C scene, given Geroge has taken the words right out of my mouth. But let's talk about the small council meeting right after Aegon found out what happened to Jaehaerys. Not even in Aegon's grief do they exclude Rhaenyra, and I'm not talking about the fact that they blamed Rhaenyra but rather that they made Aegon insult Rhaenyra. And while I loved the scene and understood why a grieving father would insult his rival who is most likely responsible for the death of his son, of course a lot of people focused on him insulting Rhaenyra instead of him having just lost his son to murder.
● Criston's character they've also reduced to nothing but a heartbroken pathetic man who is bitter of a rejection even tho he played such a big part in the books(IMO). But almost every scene of Crirston they make him insult Rhaenyra as if he can't think of anyone but her.
SEXUAL HUMILIATION OF TEAM GREEN:
At this point it's pretty clear they'll sexually humiliate Team Green at any given moment.
● Ser Criston Cole is shown breaking his oath and being coerced(yes coerced, because if we watched the scene it is pretty clear as a day that that is what happened)into sex by Rhaenyra, that was something left unclear in the books but anyways. For Rhaenyra it was seen as her bravely being a girlboss and exploring her sexuality whereas Ser Criston is humiliated by the audience for it.
● As I said Aegon(in his teen years) is sexually humiliated and shown jerking out the window, with his rear on display and his own mother catching him in the act.
● Then after introducing Aegon as a violent rapist, they make Alicent pull the blanket of Aegon once again sexually humiliating him by showing his rear on full display to his mother once again...
● Then they have Helaena making a joke at dinner and we know how people perceived this as...I have no idea if the screenwriters intend to make it seem as Aegon is sexually abusing Helaena but it was seen as such by many.
● Did I forget to mention when they made Aemond and Criston look for Aegon and then they made up a scenario where Aegon forced 13 year old Aemond to have sex with the brothel Madame Silvy, which DID not happen in the books.(and yes I edited this in because I forgot to mention this). So not only is Aegon a rapist but also is the one that orchestrated the rape of his own brother.
● Then they make Larys Strong have a fetish to the very thing related to his cripple...feet. And they make him sexually abuse and coerce Alicent, the Queen, into showing her feet and show him starting to jerk off. Wow!
● In season 2 to make Alicent seem hypocritical they make her and Criston have a sexual relationship(npt even once specualted in the books) and to add insult to injury they make Helaena who freshly watched her son get murdered walk in on them having sex just to make it seem all the more horrible even tho in thw books Alicent was bound and gagged and also watched Jaehaerys get murdered.
● Then they sexually humiliate Aemond by making him lay in the lap of his RAPIST and seek comfort in her.
● A few episodes later they make Aegon, the very reason for Aemond's rape, sexually humilate his brother publicly. Great.
● Oh and of course Aegon for some reason having his cock burned when in the books he was excited to have an heir with that Cassandra Baratheon.
TEAM GREEN DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THEIR OWN CLAIM:
● In the show, they make Aegon's claim weak, if they even make it a claim. Even tho both Rhaenyra and Aegon have a claim. Rhaenyra by Viserys' word and Aegon by birth right and by Andal law.
● Young Alicent however calls Rhaenyra's claim a birthright, which it is not(and yes Book Aegon called it Rhaenyra's birthright once, I know) so she didn't believe in Aegon's claim at all since the start.
● And just to add that they made Rhaenyra see that animal to make it seem as the gods "chose" her.
● The reason Alicent usurped the throne in the show is not because she believes it's her son's birthright at all but rather because she understood Viserys to have said that Aegon was to sit the throne.
● In season two, Aemond, while talking to Ser Criston, also says they usurped Rhaenyra, so to Aemond it wasn't their birthright?
● Aegon and show!Aegon are similar in the books when it comes to the claim, so not much to elaborate on.
Lastly, TEAM GREEN HATES EACH OTHER:
Do I need to elaborate?
There is much more I could say but I don't want to make the post too long. Tried to keep it short and simple but failed(Oops.) Also I got a bit lazy towards the end as you can probably tell.
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Alright real talk now without sassiness bc the whole anti thing against beetlebabes has me thinking about self-indulgent fantasy as a literary/storytelling device and it's something I've been thinking about with different medias lately, so this is topical ig for my current hyperfixation. Specifically I've been thinking about fantasy disavowal and the role that plays in self-indulgent/self-insert type fantasy stories, whether canon or extrapolated within fanfic. I first really learned about this concept in name from this video from contrapoints, so I have to give her credit for discussing this and explaining to me how it works in a way that blew my mind apart at the time, and I think it's the sort of thing that puts a lot of what goes on in self-indulgent fantasy stories into a different perspective, particularly when we're trying to evaluate said stories under an IRL moral microscope (and is why that approach pretty much never works or applies within this kind of story)
(Semi-long post under the cut where I mention Harry Potter as an example of a literary device- as I say within the writeup, I do not condone or support JKR or her beliefs and this is not an endorsement of her but rather a well-known example I think most people will recognize. Be aware if it's triggering for you. I also mention Twilight lol, incase that's an issue. It takes me a minute to get to Beetlejuice/Beetlebabes but I promise this is all relevant to my point, your honors)
Recently I saw a discussion within a Twilight fan group I'm in (yes I'm a Twilight fan and a rattie iykyk) about how toxic certain characters behavior would be IRL, particularly in the way several of them have a habit of making choices for Bella against her will, gifting her with things she's said she didn't want and insisting she use/wear them, etc etc. As a former Twilight hater (cuz I used to be that too many years ago!!!) I knew where they were coming from in being critical of these characters and calling them toxic, because in any other setting that would absolutely be true. Within fantasy disavowal, however, these 'toxic' behaviors are actually a way for the reader/writer (who is living vicariously through the main character) to have the main character get what they think she should have and want her to have without compromising her character or the integrity of the fantasy. Bella Swan, for example, is meant to be modest, selfless, 'not like other girls' and usually uncomfortable with bringing too much attention to herself (which makes her relatable to those who would live vicariously through her story), but of course many of those reading WANT her to have a big wedding and traditional dress anyway so that's where, for example, Alice's insistence she have those things comes into play. Yes, IRL that would be controlling, obsessive, weird, and a complete disregard of someone's wishes and boundaries but in a self-insert fantasy that tactic serves an important role to the purpose and point of the setting. WELL if you INSIST, Alice, I guess I'll just take your very generous and expensive gifts and deal with it, sigh, oh WELL!!! /s In that sense it's less demeaning and more empowering, if you're viewing it from the pov of someone wanting to immerse themselves in the fantasy.
Another example of where this is kinda used in self-insert fantasy is Harry Potter (and many others like it, and this isn't to condone JKR's terfism, this is just the example I think most people will recognize), wherein the children reading are meant to want to live vicariously through Harry and his friends and their adventures. For those children reading (and I know bc I was one once lol) the idea of being in a dangerous environment that the adults don't really shield them from entirely is very cool, it gives them a sense of independence and self-sufficiency and a sense of 'trust' from the fictional adults in their abilities to take care of themselves. From an adult's perspective now, particularly one with a child of first-year age, it's seemingly horrific how neglectful and reckless the adults in that series are with the wellbeing of the children they're responsible for (like, idk, sending a bunch of 11 year olds into the known death forest for their first detention sentence, at night, while knowing some beast is eating unicorns in said forest). But of course, within the story this constant, casual endangerment of children is never really brought up as an issue or as a reflection of some kind of immortality in the adults responsible for them as it would IRL, because it serves the purpose of self-indulgent fantasy for the children reading. It's not MEANT to be seen as a moral failing or child endangerment AT ALL so much as just the adults characters getting the fuck out of the way so the kids can have fun- unless it's like Umbridge doing it, who is established as an villain and immoral even in that setting from the jump. (And again this isn't a defend JKR post, just an explanation/example of what I'm talking about) IDK if this qualifies as fantasy disavowal perse, but it's a similar phenomenon of how behaviors -particularly those of supporting characters- can seem immoral/toxic under a real world lens but within the story serves a purpose to the reader living through the fantasy.
The way this relates to Beetlebabes for me is mostly fanon focused, but I think there are elements of disavowal in the canon as well. A lot of us who ship beetlebabes feel a kinship to Lydia in some way or another, especially those of us who watched the first film and cartoon as we ourselves were coming of age (and also probably weirdo goth kids too at the same time, I definitely was lol) and while it obviously isn't a fantasy for everyone, for a lot of us the idea of a 600-year old demon choosing and becoming obsessed with our weirdo asses BECAUSE of our weirdness is really cool actually lmao. To others, Beej pursuing Lydia so ardently against her outspoken disavowal can only be seen as intentionally toxic because they're not part of the fantasy, nor do they want to be, so seeing the merits (and empowerment) of his pursuit within this setting is beyond them. And of course, there's something to be said for the inherent nature of gothic romance as a setting, as well as the fact that movieverse Beetlejuice isn't really meant to be the pinnacle of moral direction in real life, it's meant to be a creepy, kooky dark comedy that pushes the boundaries of societal norms (not unlike what we do in the shadows). As others have said, this also isn't unlike the film Labyrinth much at all, though I RARELY see anyone coming after the Jareth/Sarah ship despite Sarah being a child in the film and Jareth being, yknow, also an ancient spirit of some kind. Perhaps because most people better understand how Labyrinth functions as a self-insert fantasy, that Jareth's obsession with Sarah is meant to be an empowering thing within that context for the young people like Sarah watching it, not an endorsement of IRL predatory behavior (ofc, Jareth being mostly a creation of Sarah's might aid with the sense of her power over the situation).
Honestly, I think it's also true for a lot of people against Beetlebabes that they identify with Lydia too, but in a way that doesn't include wanting a 600-year old demon to be obsessed with them (you do you boo, more of him to go around ig lmaooo), but instead of seeing and accepting the merits of Beej's obsession in this other kind of fantasy, they instead choose to apply real-world morals onto not only the story but the people who enjoy this story as well as their personal discomfort demands. For as much as they want to accuse others of 'not having media literacy' for shipping it, they sure jump right over the point of this literary/storytelling device. And to that end, I can't wholly blame them, because it was only within the last few years that I really realized and accepted how this works too- but I'm doing my best to explain it now, for whomever is interested.
I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that self-insert/self-indulgent type fantasy stories are, by design, not meant to be viewed through a real-world moral lens. The entire point of them is to transport a reader/viewer into a world where real-life doesn't apply, where someone like them is loved and obsessed over for the things that they are often disparaged for IRL and within a context where they (and the main character) still hold the reigns of control, as Lydia does over Beetlejuice time and time again (despite being a powerful 600 year old demon Beej sure lets his wife kick him around a lot, doesn't he???). It's not meant to be an endorsement or romanticization or even a depiction of IRL immorality either, as that would ruin the effect of the fantasy.
So yeah, I feel like trying to evaluate most of these stories in a real-world moral context is a fundamental misunderstanding of how this kind of storytelling works- that's not to say one can't evaluate them that way if they want, and sometimes (like other things used within the HP series) it's due, but I think it definitely becomes an issue when this 'moral evaluation' turns into one of the people who enjoy the fantasy too. The fictional flights of fancy that people like to immerse themselves into are just that; fantasy. And what's more, different people like living vicariously through different kinds of fantasies, different people are going to find different things empowering in said stories and just because one thing feels empowering for one person but demeaning to another should not mean the former person is immoral and gross in real life or would even want these things to happen in real way.
I keep trying to wrap this post up and failing, but that's basically it. I'm posting this because I know others will probably have way more intellectual insight and feedback to add about this kind of storytelling and I just think it's really fascinating to talk about. What do yall think?
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You know what, I have to get this off my chest so here's my essay on why Anakin and Padme's relationship in Attack of the Clones singlehandedly sinks not only Episode II, but detracts from the entire prequel trilogy.
Here's the thing: the prequels are a tragedy, chronicling Anakin Skywalker's lamentable fall to the Dark Side and becoming Darth Vader. But the movies spend SO. MUCH. TIME. foreshadowing Anakin's fall, we never really get to see him be a hero. (I will always be immensely grateful to The Clone Wars for giving us this desperately needed characterization for Anakin).
The same applies to Anakin/Padme's relationship. Their romance should be a tragedy, and really the only way to make something tragic is to make the audience root for it to succeed in the first place.
But their relationship as depicted in the movies is so toxic and covered in red flags I can't root for it to succeed. (And Anakin himself is already apparently one breath away from going full Dark Side so there's no chance to root for him either.)
Side note about "I don't like sand" since the problems with their romance often get chalked up to "Anakin is awkward" : "Awkwardness" could have worked, because awkwardness CAN be sweet and endearing when it's coming from someone who is shown to be kind and compassionate (see: Tech in general, but also with Phee). But Anakin, 10 years after TPM, isn't depicted in AotC as truly kind or compassionate or anything even approximating heroic until maybe the Battle of Geonosis at the very end of the movie. So yeah, Anakin being an idiot young adult when talking to a girl he likes is understandable; it's all his other behavior that is absolutely unacceptable.
Just a few "highlights:"
- Padme covers the cams in her room because she doesn't want Anakin watching her, then directly calls out Anakin for the looks he's giving her and tells him it's making her uncomfortable... And Anakin's response is creepy smile and then later he persists in talking to her about how he dreams about her etc and so forth.
^ Oh, if only the above or similar had been the actual scene...
- Inexplicably (and out of character for the Padme we got to know in TPM), Padme just... rolls with it and lets Anakin continue the creepy behavior she just told him she didn't like? Okay, guess we're reinforcing the idea that when women say "no" they don't ACTUALLY mean "no," persistence always wins, just gotta keep trying no matter what the woman says.
- Anakin strokes Padme's bare skin (she still hasn't said anything to indicate she's okay with this kind of attention), and she kisses him before pulling away and expressing regret over it. Since there's no other explanation given for Padme's sudden attraction to Anakin, we're left to assume that Padme must have been hiding her feelings for him from the get-go and therefore it must have been right for Anakin to keep testing her boundaries (do I really need to spell out how deeply problematic this messaging is??).
- Padme tells Anakin a relationship isn't feasible. (I have frequently come across comments on her "dominatrix dress" in this scene because apparently if a woman is going to turn down a man she has to plan on wearing, what, a burlap sack I guess, so the guy doesn't "get the wrong impression"). Anakin then shuffles full responsibility for his feelings onto her because of "the kiss she shouldn't have given him."
- Anakin commits one mistake and bad decision and egregious crime after another in the movie, as noted above it's not until Geonosis that he makes any decision that could be marginally considered heroic or "good," and... Padme likes this awful behavior, apparently?? Where did Padme liking this come from??? (If you're going to have freakin' rational smart independent kick-butt PADME fall for something like this, at least explain/show WHY.)
- By the time we get to the "We're about to die so yeah I totally love you" cliche, I'm not even cringing anymore because I'm just trying to figure out how we got to this point in the first place.
So... Yeah, we keep being told this is an epic tragic romance, and all I can see is two hours' worth of indicators that if Padme were my real-life friend, I'd be holding an intervention long before Anakin got assigned to her security detail on Naboo. FOR FORCE'S SAKE, PADME, HE'S BEEN THROWING UP NOTHING BUT RED FLAGS! RED MEANS STOP!!!
Again, this isn't just "Anakin doesn't know how to talk to girls because he was raised as a space monk." (Come on, people, Obi Wan was raised the same way and he does NOT act like that... But I digress.) This is Anakin being a creepy stalker who doesn't listen to the woman he supposedly loves and won't take no for an answer, and he ends up rewarded for it, and we're supposed to cheer him and Padme on and want them to be together?
No. Not me, at least.
And with this as the backstory going into Revenge of the Sith, with us never getting the chance (in the movies) to see Anakin at his best even with the woman he supposedly loves, Anakin's fall doesn't really feel tragic - it just feels... inevitable. His fall is plenty tragic and regrettable for the Jedi and clones and the Republic in general, of course; but with respect to how Anakin's demise affects him, it just hits as being a long time coming.
(At the end of the day, the only reason why I tolerate Anakin/Padme in TCW is because I actively ignore everything about their relationship from AotC. TCW also did such a stellar job showing enough of Anakin's good side contrasted with his darker tendencies that Anakin's fall in RotS now finally hits me as tragic for Anakin in particular. And the only reason why I rewatch AotC is for Obi Wan and the Yoda v Dooku fight, I almost always skip over 90% of the "romance" scenes at this point because I don't like gagging while watching a movie.)
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@beatingheart-bride
"It's an old Pratt family recipe," Josephine explained, saying, "My family used to make it for farmer's markets when I was younger, we used to sell it by the bagful; it was always very popular, so we oftentimes sold out very quickly. It's been a long time since I made it, so it felt good to get back in the kitchen and make a batch-especially with two great little helpers."
"We helped!" Lon declared proudly through a mouthful of popcorn, and even Erika smiled a little and nodded-it had actually been really fun, helping Grandma Josephine out. It was a lot like being in the kitchen with Grandma June, and that helped Erika feel a little more at ease about pitching in.
And watching her favorite movie also helped her feel a little more comfortable being around these new family members, admittedly, able to forget about her anxieties in favor of colorful animation and wonderful music, with the hot, sweet kettle corn being an additional bonus. Laying on her stomach watching the movie, Erika felt more content than she had the day before, and smiled as she relaxed. Maybe this visit wouldn't be so bad after all!
Meanwhile, Lon, sitting up beside his sister, was still trying to figure out what this "burlesque" was that his family kept talking about-it involved dancing, performing, but the specifics he couldn't quite figure out. When Esmeralda began her dance at the Feast of Fools, Lon turned back to ask his great-grandmother curiously, "Is that burlesque?"
"Ah, not quite," Josephine chuckled amusedly, though she could see some similarities there, between herself and La Esmeralda: Performing flirtatious, provocative dances for an appreciative audience (with some disapproving figures in the crowd as well), being looked down on because of it, but still remaining kind despite all that? Yes, that all sounded rather familiar to her...
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