#lesbians / trans women will relate

[echosfandoms]

Inspired by this post

[femmepire-butchbiter]

As a black transmasc femme, nothing makes me more defensive and puts the masc in my transmasc more than black trans women in need. Those are my sisters, both in the experience of black womanhood, and the experience of transness (though ofc there are large differences in the struggles I face vs theirs, black trans women take the brunt of the blow and that's a fact).

But they are my sisters in the way that, though a highly complicated, queer and transgender lense, I will always take the role of their defender, not unlike a brother might to his own sister. We are sisters and girls together, but also they're my sisters and nobody is going to fuck with my sisters, if that makes sense??

Idk, I have a lot of complicated feelings towards black trans women, so many things I want to say. And sometimes I worry that I'll come across as some annoying ass white knight. I also don't ever wanna infantilize any woman, or tell her she "needs my protection". But it's deeply important to me all the same that more people, myself included, make it very fervently clear that protecting and being in community with black trans women is not only important, but non negotiable. Like it just is, idk how to slice it any other way.

[skrunksthatwunk]

you go to a lesbian blog and find it says women only!! no men allowed!!! and go oh! excuse me, um, what about other lesbians? plenty of lesbians are genderqueer... and they go well, okay, go fuck yourself tim chop off your sweaty dick and stop calling yourself a lesbian. you do not have a dick, actually. you think about that fact often, even though it does you no good. you do not tell this person that.

you go to another lesbian blog and it says women only and you try again, and this time they change it to wlw + nblw only (non-men who love non-men :D). and you'll say hey i appreciate that but gender's not really that cut and dry for a lot of people. someone could be both a man and nonbinary, for instance. i just worry that you're looking at nonbinary as a generic third gender, or an extension of womanhood. i mean yeah you include nblw in your tags but all your posts are about pussy-havers exclusively. what's with that? and they say go fuck yourself you pervy man pretending to be a lesbian. you tried to sneak in but i won't let you.

so you go to a lesbian blog with a dozen or so posts about queer people needing to be more weird about it and you sigh in relief. but you still see the men dni. that's odd. hoping for the best, you say hey! i know you mean well but please maybe don't put men dni at the end of the lovely posts on your lesbian blog bc some lesbians are men. and they'll be like ok!! well you're allowed ;) and you say no that's not. no. some men are lesbians not just me. you think about your own dicklessness and wonder if that's why you were given entry. and you add that even if male lesbians are allowed, there's no indication of that. how would anyone know without asking? and they're like ohh gotcha gotcha well men dni + this is for sapphics only!! and you'll be like ok well that treats the concepts of men and sapphics as mutually exclusive identities and i just told you that's not true and you agreed with me so.. i don't think that solves our problem. and they're like. ok. fine. men dni but genderfluid and multigender people are allowed! and you're like no see that's. that's still the same thing.. you're saying the same thing just with different words. if you don't want men to interact but you're fine with multigender/genderfluid/etc ppl interacting then you either don't see them as Real Men (because they don't reach a standard of Full Manhood) or Complete Men (because they're only Part-Time Men), both of which suggest that they are, in some way, not men or less-than men, which is invalidating and defeats the point of the exception in the first place (accommodation) OR that you don't really mean the dni which is confusing and inconsistent and makes guydykes feel weird and uncomfortable and excluded from the lesbian space you're trying to cultivate. and they're like um. ok. so. cishet men dni? and you're like well i think that makes more sense, but what if someone identifies as both a cishet man and a sapphic? again, if we're trying to accommodate the genderfucky populace then that has to be a possibility that is considered. and they say god you people are never happy. what do you want me to do? what am i supposed to say to keep the right men out? and you pause. you empathize with the need for a space free from dudes trying to fuck you straight and feminine. dudes who watch lesbian porn and joke about what they'd do if they were allowed into girls locker rooms. who look at you like a piece of meat, and like someone who looks at women like pieces of meat in the same way he does. you get it. you know. you want a space where you can be sapphic, too. that's why you came to these blogs in the first place. you brace yourself and you say well i don't know that there are "right men" to keep out. i don't know that there's any single label that would accomplish whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. you could go for "sapphics only" or "queers only" and i think that might be the closest thing to what you want, but it's never going to be perfect. creating any exclusive space is going to shut out people you didn't account for, and the broader the label, the more people will be shut out that you didn't want to shut out. and what about people who don't know if they're allowed? what of questioning transbians, where are they supposed to go? and, frankly, i think i might rather my dykey posts get read and appreciated by a gay guy who sees me as a man than a woman who only sees me as a sacred womb, pure from male perversions or violence or whatever. i think community might just be more complex than a dni can handle. and they look at you and say i don't want to not have a dni. i think you're too permissive. you can't just "what about" or microlabel your way into everything. go fuck yourself, i bet you're not even a lesbian anyway. go find a real problem to get mad about.

you go to a lesbian blog. you ignore the men dni because you know you probably don't even count to them. or maybe you do count and, out of respect for your manhood, they'd shun you accordingly. you try to feel okay about that. you scroll past dozens of posts about mediocre men and gagging at straight friends' boyfriends and how gross and undeserving men are of the beautiful women they couple up with and how all women should be gay so they can get treated right and and and and and. you finally find a post about curling into someone you love and feeling at peace and try to lose yourself in it. you know that feeling is what unites you, what makes you belong. you try to focus on it. you think about carding your hands through a butch's hair or lacing fingers with a femme and feeling warm and loved and more yourself than you ever have before. like this is who you're meant to be. you read about lesboys and butch boytoys and genderfucky dykes and big hairy deep-voiced wonderful women (like you want to be someday, like you wish you could make yourself) and you try to ignore the men dni underneath each and every post. and you daydream about meeting someone kind and earnest at a lesbian bar even though you don't think any such bars exist within three states of you and you can't drink and don't want to drink because you need to be in control of yourself at all times so you don't fuck up like you're always about to and here in the nonexistent lesbian bar you feel wanted and safe and in good company. you picture your ideal, happiest self. it is a mistake. ideal-you has a goatee. not the mascara one you smear on and call drag even though you know it's not drag, not really, the beard you call drag because you think everyone would look at you sadly if you told them it was just to pretend you had something out of your reach. a beard that's soft and that you grew and that cannot be smudged away if you get too comfortable with it. the dream shatters. your people pull away from you, their scoffs mixing with the mind-numbing gay girl bedroom pop you learned to settle for just to have something that almost resembled you, they all pull away and turn their backs and do not look at you. you're too close to being a man now, even though you're the same amount of man as before. and they know you're not supposed to interact with men, not as you would with dykes, at least. and it sours. it's all your imagination, all in your head, but it sours.

you sigh. you think about how small you are. how short, how narrow, how feeble. how your voice pitches up when you talk to strangers because it's easier to speak quietly when it carries more, and because you're nervous. because it's a chore to talk, like everything is. you think about testosterone. you think about how your family would look at you, the questions they would ask, your answers they would only pretend to accept. the uncomfortable glances and whispered questions they'd try to hide from you. you think about how small you are, and how small you will always be. how you don't know of a way to fix it, but even if there was one, no one would want you anymore. you'd be the only one thinking it made you a cooler dyke. you think about how you don't even want a T-voice all the time, how you'll never be able to switch it at will, because you don't know how and can't bring yourself to figure it out. you think about how your throat closes around every hint of your own attraction. how wanting is perverse, how wanting is invasive, how wanting is embarrassing and too vulnerable so it must stay anonymous, as an online witness, and how you can barely manage to form or maintain friendships because your brain makes you pull away, always spinning out and struggling to recover from the simplest of interactions. how they'll all leave you and you won't chase after them at all and how that will hurt them. how stuck you get. how it looks like nothing's holding you back, how that frustrates everyone who thought you were going to be more than you were. the people you love who understand except when it comes to being ghosted, being shut out. how you don't want to hurt them. how you can't tell them that because you're stuck. how you turn to stone when touched, how you never reach out, how you lose your speech and can't look at people, how your autism is fun and sexy until it becomes real and you never see them anymore, how much you longed for someone who knew everything without you having to explain, and who loved you anyway. how unreasonable you know that is to expect of anyone. you think about that not-even-real lesbian bar. you think about how you still can't drive. how you can't leave your home on your own, without dragging somebody into helping you. how you can't leave your body. how you can't leave your manhood behind.

you think about finding another lesbian blog and ignoring everything. about skimming it for the parts you can juice some meaning from. the parts men ignore and don't understand, and how typical of you it is to do so. or the parts where you're not welcome and you should accept that, because it's for lesbians only. how you are a lesbian anyway. how you're meant to choose lesbian or man, how each is a betrayal of some kind to yourself or your people, your family, your lovely strangers, your rare friendly acquaintances. about the parts that tell you you're not wanted, that you're ugly and lazy and gross and insert yourself everywhere without even asking. about the parts that tell you you are hated, and how lesbians are above it all by rejecting men. how lesbians are each blessed miracles. about the parts that say you should be ashamed of being whatever twisted confused freak you are, of everything, of looking and wanting or not looking or not wanting, of picking and choosing instead of taking it all in with a smile. after all, shouldn't you take it? or is your ego too fragile, as men's so often are? aren't you tired? good. we're not here for your consumption. and we sure as hell don't want your company or "community" or whatever. didn't you read the sign? no boys allowed. and if you want to come in you have to make up your mind. as if you haven't told them the only answer you have. you're both. you're both.

you know you broke the rule by interacting.

but it gets lonely sometimes. you wonder if they know.

[fitzrove]

The situation I posted about is mostly funny but I do think it makes me feel alienated from some people (largely certain women because it's my main reference group) dkkdld. Like oh you guys truly have never had to contemplate your gender/enforced gender norms/gendered choices and gendered benefits/punishments, you truly think that all of your choices and actions are simply personal and not societally steered and socially rewarded/punished 😅 like y'all are comfortable with your conformity to an extent where you don't even notice how little freedom there is sometimes dkkdksks

[aroacechillzone]

shoutout to nb people who started out partially identifying with their birth gender at first before realizing that their gender is actually not related to their birth gender at all and the only reason they thought it was is because society sees them as their birth gender and treats them as such.

(it's me. i'm the nonbinary person)

[healingheartdogs]

Men can have vaginas. Women can have penises. Being a lesbian is not about "only liking pussy". Being gay is not about "only liking dick". Those are transphobic and intersex exclusive statements.

The "sex" in "sexuality" is not referring to assigned sex at birth or the most common presentations of assigned sex genitalia. It refers to sexual attraction. Queer sexual attraction is gender and/or shared queer experience based. Gender is not the same as assigned sex at birth or genitalia. If your personal sexual attraction is based on assigned sex at birth and specific genitalia and you use a queer sexuality label you are appropriating that label and participating not only in transphobia and intersex exclusion from queer communities but also in homophobia.

Stop appropriating queer sexualities and then trying to kick out people who actually belong under that label because you want to make a little exclusion based bigot club for yourselves.

[gnometa233]

most of the people saying "lesbians kiss/fuck/date trans men all the time!!!" think that said lesbians are just playing 4D chess with their sexuality but in reality they're probably just transphobic and don't actually see trans men as men. Sorry.

[satoriberry]

tha terf paradox of promoting acceptance of oneself's biological nature and not changing it for societal ideologies but then turning around and criticizing any person that has a different perception of their biological nature that doesn't immediately enter the "male or female" binary hmmm,,,,

[talisidekick]

Transphobe: "You're a man."

Me: "LMAO! Looking like *this*? You need your eyes checked."

Queer Transphobe: "You're a man."

Me, on my knees like I just had my heart ripped out of my chest: "Et tu, Brutus?"

[cruelsister-moved2]

hi im not reblogging ur post bc i like to keep my blog lighthearted but i wanna thank you for calling out bad behaviour in the community while still acknowledging that trans men can have experiences with misogyny and less power than cis men. i see so many posts lacking this kind of nuance (in either direction) and seeing your post was a breath of fresh air also youre so right

aw thank you i appreciate this<3 i think we get a ton of crossed wires because when trans men are held accountable for misogyny they feel like they're having their own understanding of misogyny invalidated and being told that they have to choose between being a man and being a good person. the thing is, you can understand misogyny just fine and still benefit from it. i posted a great article a while back about how men in gender studies and women's studies can demonstrate an extremely in-depth understanding of misogyny and yet still benefit from & even perpetuate it.

the point i was trying to make is that misogyny isn't just men saying bad things and it isn't just men being inexplicably evil in some way. it's a system we all live in, and marginalised people are also capable of upholding it for their own gain (or just passively benefiting from it without even knowing) even when it's not in their best interests in the grand scheme of things.

tbh i feel like where 99% of people go wrong is not understanding trans men as like, just another type of marginalised man? we KNOW that marginalised men's access to male privilege is conditional and situational and usually it means power over marginalised women in exchange for obedience to white heteropatriarchy. it feels like we r constantly being roped into a childish debate over whether trans men are essentially identical to white cishet men, or are they something which is shaped like a man but doesnt actually function like a man in society in any way.

and the thing is... a man isn't an essential thing. manhood is a jealously guarded institution of privilege. marginalised men often find themselves defending in the hopes of gaining access to it, and sometimes in some contexts they do. there aren't monolithic male and female experiences. black men can know what it's like to be afraid to walk down the street, disabled men can know what it's like to have your reproductive freedom restricted, gay men can know what it's like not to be seen as a man at all. i dont like the conversations where both sides are trying to sort people into static victim/perpetrator categories. so for one side, examples of victimhood prove they can't be perpetrators and for the other, examples of perpetration prove they can't be victims. i feel like the fact that certain trans men's response to these conversations is "well im not perceived as a man/don't access white male cishet privilege in xyz situation" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what privilege even is. it's all very essentialist!!

[lord-squiggletits]

I know gender fuckery is the name of the game with alien robots and people are allowed to headcanon and AU whatever they want, but there are some choices to genderbend certain characters that do really fucking annoy me not gonna lie

[transfemstarscream]

i feel alienated in regards to “online transfem culture” and i don’t know why. i don’t mean this in a “i can’t relate to this so it’s bad” way, but more so “i don’t really see/understand this as a shared experience” way. i don’t really know how to explain it but it feels as if every subgenre of online transfem communities just isn’t for me.

[caffeinatedopossum]

People are so weird to trans people. Like beyond being straight forward dickheads, transphobes are just so weird

[butchladymaria]

I agree with your list ! People being asshole about lesbian & other headcanons gtfo! That list could work for many other things too.

But to be sure everyone don’t mix thing up i just want to point out that not liking/ not being fan of an headcanon don’t equal  being an ass about it. It’s the mean actions or words afterwards that are bad. 

hey! i’m glad you found it generalizable. there’s a lot of things on there that get used against pretty much any “diverse” perspectives both inside and out of fan spaces. as for your second point, i don’t disagree with you. there are some queer headcanons that i don’t personally hold, but i’m going to be cheering them on rather than contributing to the negativity we face on a regular basis. you can personally hold a different headcanon without being a jerk.

this is not @ you anon, but there are a lot of people who believe that underrepresented groups seeing themselves in characters — whether through the lens of race, gender, sexuality, disability, etc — is “politicizing” fandom and ruining it somehow, as though a white/cishet/male/abled perspective is the default in art and anything else is “tainting” the “pure” fanspace. some of them might believe those voices can exist — so long as they keep their heads down and don’t take up too much space. the fact of the matter is that’s a bigoted thing to believe. our existence has been politicized against our will. for the marginalized, fan spaces are just another front we have to push to participate in. if someone finds themself constantly disliking one specific type of queer/nonwhite/disabled/etc. headcanon and feels the need to say over and over how much they don’t like it, they ought to seriously interrogate why that is.

[banghwa]

saying this here bcs my methodology chapter is already too long literally dykes and trans women we have more in common than we don’t when julia serano said she never truly felt like a woman before she started transitioning literally i never felt like a woman before i realized i was a dyke and started dating women we are literally . in this together femininity cannot end where it begins for another we alllllll have to wrestle with it and stretch it and make something out of it together .

[devilishdelights]

Just a vent in the tags 😭😭 sorry