#leftist support for Putin

[ravenkings]

tbh it is kind of crazy to me the degree to which your opinion about what's happening in ukraine is such a powerful indicator for just how nuts your political beliefs and opinions are

[tanadrin]

re: the motivated Pyrrhonian skepticism of anti-Ukraine leftism: it's very strange to me to characterize what I learn about the conflict as coming through "American media". I remember the opening of the war. Putin said "we won't invade." The Russian foreign ministry posted memes about how absurd Americans were to be afraid of invasion. The US kept saying "Russia is about to invade". Zelenskyy posted a "please don't invade" video. And Russia invaded! None of this information was mediated at all!

I agree with this and had a big long response about the fundamental error of Americans who solipsistically view everything through the lens of the Iraq War, but it hardly seems worth the effort. Opposing international support for Ukraine right now is just a really stupid position to hold. It makes sense only for extreme Russian nationalists, those who hold universally pacifistic views, and people who think "America bad" constitutes the entirety of being a leftist. Big states invading small states is bad, states being invaded have a right to defend themselves, and the right to solicit aid, and there's no coherent argument in favor of cutting off aid to Ukraine except if you believe nonsense fairy tales about Russia's political leadership.

But these people wouldn't be happy if the US had refused to get involved--indeed, in that circumstance, I'm sure they'd be bellowing about how the evil amerikkkan government wasn't helping the Ukrainians fight off the invaders. The key political doctrine is that whatever the US does is bad, and it's up to us to figure out why after the fact.

[narse-tantalus]

At this point we should all realize that Israel/Palestine is a wedge issue being used by bad actors to divide and conquer left-leaning folks.

Question the motives of anyone trying to use the issue to influence votes before November.

[beatrice-otter]

I’ll be honest, when one party’s aiding and abetting the genocide and the other’s outright gonna kill all my friends, I don’t really care if the fascists “win”. They’ve won already.

You know who would be delighted to hear that? Trump and Putin. The US far right and the Russian government have poured lots of time, effort, and money over the last decade+ into convincing US leftists and liberals that things are hopeless, there's no point in even trying to make things better, and the Democrats and Republicans are functionally interchangeable. They do this because one of the easiest ways for them to win is if the left gives up and stops trying. Every person on the left they can convince to give up in despair brings them closer to complete control. Defeatism on the left actively supports victory on the right.

I think your statement is wrong on a number of levels, both factual and emotional. It comes from not understanding what the actual options are for the US government and the President specifically, either at home or abroad. And it will allow actual fascism to flourish and make the world far worse than it is now.

On an emotional level, the way to address this is to stop doomscrolling. Stop focusing on the worst things happening in the world. Don't ignore them! but don't let them consume you. Start looking for the things that are going well. Find places in your community that you can get involved in making things better. Even if it's only on a small scale like volunteering in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter, it will help you realize that you aren't helpless, that there are things that can be done to make the world a better place. Stay informed about things on a local, national, and international level, but limit how much time and attention you give to things that depress you that you can't affect. Instead of sitting there thinking about all the ways the world sucks and how awful things are, look for things you can do that are productive, and then do them. You'll feel better and you will have made your corner of the world a little better. And you will be a lot less likely to unintentionally fall into the despair, nihilism, and passivity that the fascists want you to be consumed by.

Always remember that the worlds problems are not resting solely on your shoulders, or solely on America's shoulders, and neither is the hope of fixing them. Everyone has things that we can do to make the world a better place, but there are also things that are beyond our control. We can control what we do; we cannot control what others do. We can and should try to make the world a better place, but focusing on the things we can't change has no positive benefits. Focusing on things we can't change accomplishes two things: it makes you feel bad, and it stops you from doing the things you actually can do to make things better. Neither of these things is good for you or anyone else. Look for things you can do and do them. Keep informed on the things you can't change, but don't focus on them.

On a factual level, let's look at "aiding and abetting genocide," shall we?

First, it's important to remember that the US President is not the God-Emperor Of The World. The US government has limits to what it can and can't do in other countries, and both legally and practically. If the US wants to intervene in a problem in another country, there are a variety of things we can do that boil down to basically four categories. It's a lot more complex than this in practice, of course, but in general here are the categories of things we can do:

Send in the troops. Invade, either by ourselves or as part of a NATO or UN operation. (Or maybe just send in a CIA wetworks team to assassinate the head of state.) I hope you can see the moral problems with this option, and also, we've done this a shitton of times over the course of the 20th Century and pretty much every time we've done it, we've made an already awful situation worse. On a moral level, it's pretty bad, and on a practical level, it's worse. Sure, we could stop the immediate problem, but what then? Consider Afghanistan and Iraq. We got rid of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban, and everything went to shit, we spent twenty years occupying Afghanistan with pretty much nothing to show for it. (The Taliban is back in control of Afghanistan.) Things were worse when we left than when we arrived. So this option is pretty much off the table (or should be).

Diplomatic pressure. Now, the thing is, they're a sovereign nation, they don't have to listen to us if they don't want to. We have a lot of things we can leverage--including financial aid--but the only way to force them to do what we want is to invade and conquer, and that only works temporarily. Since we can't force, we have to persuade. This requires us to maintain our existing relationship with the country in question, and possibly strengthen it, because that relationship is what we're leveraging to try and influence them to do what we want them to do. If we do not maintain our relationship, they have no reason to listen to us.

Cut ties and go home. Break off any existing relationship and support, loudly proclaim that they're awful and doing awful things and we wash our hands of the whole situation. This keeps our own hands lily-white and pure, but it also means we have zero leverage to work on any kind of a diplomatic solution. They have no reason to listen to us or care about what we think. We can pat ourselves on the back for doing the right thing, but we destroy our own ability to influence anything. Not just now, but also in the future. Let's say the current crisis ends, and then ten years later there's another crisis. If we want to have any effect then, we would have to start from square one to start building a relationship. Cutting ties would be great for making Americans feel better about ourselves, and there are times when it's the only option, but it should be a last resort. If there is any hope of being able to influence things for the better this will destroy it at least temporarily.

Cut ties and impose sanctions. Break off any existing relationship and support, loudly proclaim that they're awful and doing awful things, but also use the might of the American economy to isolate and punish them. We've done this a lot over the 20th Century, too, and it has never actually resulted in the country in question buckling down and toeing the line we want them to. What happens is the sanctioned country has an economic shock (how long it lasts and how bad it gets depends on a lot of factors) and then pulls themselves back together economically, except this time they're more self-sufficient and less reliant on international trade and financial networks. They tell themselves that America is evil and the cause of all their problems, and so not only do they not listen to us, they actively hate us. And they have fewer international relationships, so fewer reasons to care about what the international community thinks about them. So they're most likely to double down on whatever it is they're doing that we don't like. This one is completely counterproductive and utterly stupid. It's great for making Americans feel better about ourselves, but if we actually care about being able to use our influence for good (or, at least, to mitigate evil) this option shoots us in the foot. It encourages other nations to do the very thing we're trying to stop them from doing.

So, with those four options in mind, both option one (invasion/assassination) and option four (sanctions) are off the table for being immoral and counterproductive. That leaves "breaking our relationship and going home" and "using diplomatic pressure" as our only two viable options.

Biden has chosen option two, diplomatic pressure. Yes, he and our government have continued financial support for Israel ... but with strings attached. They have put limits on it that have never been put on any US foreign aid before. They have taken legal steps to lay the groundwork to target Israeli settlers (i.e. Israeli citizens who confiscate Palestinian homes and businesses). We've been hearing reports for months that Benjamin Netanyahu (Israeli Prime Minister, and a far-right-wing demagogue) hates Biden's guts, because Biden is pressuring him to stop the genocide and work towards peace. Biden is maintaining the relationship, and he's using that relationship to try and influence things to curb the violence and pave the way for a just peace settlement of some sort. Biden has also mentioned the possibility of a two state solution where Palestine becomes its own completely separate country. That's huge, because up until this point the US position has always been that Israel is the only possible legitimate nation in that territory. If Biden stopped US support for Israel, it wouldn't force Israel to stop what it's doing ... but it would let them ignore us. It would remove any leverage or influence we might have.

Biden's hands aren't clean. But the only way for them to be clean would be to also give up any chance of influencing the situation or working to protect Palestinians now or in the future. Only time will tell if it works, but I personally would rather have someone who tried and failed than someone who didn't even try. You might disagree about whether this is the right course of action, and there's a lot of room for honest disagreement about the issue (there's a lot of nuances that I'm glossing over or ignoring). But please do acknowledge that Biden isn't supporting Israel because he supports genocide; he's doing it so that he can continue to maintain diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop the violence.

Which brings us back to "aiding and abetting genocide." Trump is not like Biden. Trump is good friends with Netanyahu and backs Israel to the hilt. Trump thinks that all Arabs are terrorists (and all Muslims are terrorists) and genuinely believes the world would be a better place with them dead. Biden is continuing to support Israel, but using that support as influence to get them to stop or slow down. Trump would be using that influence to encourage them.

And those are the two choices. Someone who is trying to curb the genocide, and someone who actively supports it.

I really hope you can see the significant and substantial difference between those two positions.

But let's say that you're right and Biden's policy towards Israel and Palestine is every bit as bad as Trump's would be. If there was nothing to choose between them on foreign policy grounds, there would still be a shitton to choose between them on domestic policy grounds. You admit that the right wants to kill your friends, and yet you don't seem to think that stopping them from killing your friends might be a good thing to do.

"We can't save Palestinians, so we might as well let Republicans destroy the rights, lives, and futures of LGBTQ+ people, women, people of color, people with disabilities, poor people, non-Christians, and anyone else they don't like." "We can't save Palestinians, so why bother to try to save the people we might actually be able to save." "We can't save Palestinians right now, so there's no point in trying to build up a longer-term political bloc that might drag US politics to the left over the long run."

Do you get why there's a problem with that line of thought?

[queeranarchism]

I’m really disappointed that Ukraine independence in the face of Russian imperialism and ethnic cleansing isn’t a bigger topic in leftist circles in the Netherlands. Like, most people on the left that I speak to will affirm that yes, Russia is the baddie and the Ukrainian people should be free, but then they will not be interested in contributing to that in the way they contribute to other righteous causes.

It’s not particularly present in the visual culture of social media, posters, stickers either. I’ve been putting up pro-Ukraine stickers in leftist venues and there’s always some shithead removing them. Which points to a bigger problem: a widespread tolerance for Putin-apologism if it’s wearing a communist hat. Like, I thought these were places where we kicked out people who defend genocidal dictators? I thought we were going to unfollow & block those types on our social media? Can we do a little better on this? & like, I get that aesthetically it feels more radical to support people who don’t also have huge states supporting them, but like, if you only support the Ukrainian people after they’ve lost the war, after they have been subjected to a brutal occupation and after they have been declared a lost cause by states, then I think you really need to question where that attitude gets you. We could also, like, try to make sure it never gets to that?

[dicapiito]

Leftist are pro-Hamas not pro-Palestine. The problem with leftist is that they don’t actually support Palestinians, they only support what Hamas did October 7 to Israel due to their antisemitism. We all know that what Israel is doing towards the innocent Palestinians in Gaza is wrong, but they can’t differentiate towards innocent Palestinians and Hamas. And that’s what leftist don’t realize is that you can be pro Palestinian without being antisemitic. And that’s why they keep labeling people who acknowledge that Israel has the right to defend itself while also acknowledging that the genocide of innocent people in Gaza is wrong “pro-genocide” cause it goes against their ideals.

Truth.

The way this website cheered what Hamas did on Putin’s birthday, disgusted the hell out of me. It’s like they loved the fact that they kidnapped and murdered Jewish People just for existing. Rashida Tlaib being one of their biggest supporters while we are at it.

They’re definitely Hamas fanatics who should be on watch lists imo. After all, how is threatening Jewish and Black People supposed to help Gaza? They’re already being fucked over by Hamas but leftists think yelling on social media is “ real activism”.

Not more smart things like voting for Kamala Harris so Gaza would at least have more of a chance and Netanyahu wouldn’t have had an arsenal of weapons of his choice from an incompetent Trump.

[sunsgrave]

A message to the dirtbag left.

You did this.

You leftists with your ‘never vote for Genocide Joe!’ And your hateful, disgusting, ‘Holocaust Harris!’

Do you know what is going to happen? Do you know what Donald Trump will do?

Well, Donald Trump, the man who, if you recall, recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, instead of the less-political Tel Aviv-Yafo, the man who counts Benjamin Netanyahu as a close friend, he will give all possible assistance to Netanyahu (that shande für die goyim)

He will give political and monetary assistance to the Likud, and unchallenged by the ‘mighty’ United States of America, the people of Gaza will continue to die. In fact, the dying will likely accelerate.

Because Donald Trump does not care about the Palestinian people. He has never cared an iota about the Palestinian people.

Aid to Ukraine will cease, and without the aid of the ‘mighty’ United States of America Ukraine will inevitably fall.

Because Donald Trump counts himself a close friend of Vladimir Putin, and Donald Trump does not care about the Ukrainian people.

The rights of transgender Americans will be overturned, the rights of Americans of colour, the rights of Queer Americans, the rights of Americans who might ever have to receive an abortion and other similar health care, the rights of Americans who do not identify as fundamentalist Christian, the rights of people who simply wish to gain citizenship and become Americans, all that will be as dust.

Because Donald Trump does not care about anyone who does not love him and support him.

This is your fault.

Because YOU, you didn’t want to ‘hold your nose and close your eyes’ because you simply didn’t want to vote for the lesser evil.

It is so easy to say ‘I don’t support this person, but if I vote for them it will be for the greater good’

Why didn’t you just do that? It’s so easy, so simple!

By G-d, I hope you don’t complain over the next four years.

Do you feel happy? At peace?

This blood will be on your hands. Own it.

[sophieinwonderland]

Please, stop being so pro America as a "leftist" ffs.

Ukraine was invaded by the America with CIA's fundings to Nazis to litterally kill Russian speaking people RIGHT NEXT TO RUSSIA. West Ukraine is known for one of the largest base of Nazis in history, and of course Nazis hate USSR and the land and people they assigned to Ukraine. Nazis are the one who STARTED THE HOT WAR AND TERROR ATTACKS 8 YEARS BEFORE PUTIN ATTACKS THEM.

And Russians keep being way too civil compared to the Nazis, Nazis are the ones who put butterfly mines all over the places, threatening the civils, and Russians only put vehicle mines to prevent Nazis chasing. Nazis are the ones who use human shields, not Russians. And jist like how American blames Cuba for letting USSR missiles installed, it's America stiring shits for YEARS before Russian started the millitary action, of course the bully yells the victim is gonna attack soon, for the sake of a rightful defense.

You are the ones who lives in lies, not the general Russians who are pro Putin or even anti Putin for the sake of him being too non nationalism.

Ukriane's dictator denies their citizens' human rights, and the people have every right to choose Russia over the CIA overthrown "Ukraine", especially if you claim to be pro-democracy.

First, let met just say A+ on the propaganda.

Like, putting aside the fact that this is a baseless conspiracy theory spread by Russia, I love the way you're trying to muddy the waters about what an "invasion" is.

Ukraine was invaded by the America with CIA's fundings to Nazis to litterally kill Russian speaking people RIGHT NEXT TO RUSSIA.

"Look everyone, our literal invasion of Ukraine that has left tens of thousands dead is fine because the CIA invaded Ukraine with money."

It is just so SHAMELESS! 🤣

Anyway, 8 years before, you say? So you're talking about the fighting in Dunbas, where Russia backed violent separatist terrorists with both funding and Russian troops to overtake the region by force?

Then the Ukrainian government naturally fought back against the Russian-backed terrorists...

That's what you're talking about, right?

Ukriane's dictator denies their citizens' human rights, and the people have every right to choose Russia over the CIA overthrown "Ukraine", especially if you claim to be pro-democracy.

Respectfully, Democracy means the people choosing their leaders through elections, not foreign invasions and terrorist insurrections. The native-Russian-speaking Zelensky won the 2019 election and beat the incumbent with 73% of the vote, in a massive landslide. And unlike Putin, he didn't need to arrest or kill his political opponents to win.

Do you know what I HATE most about lines like this though?

It's the whole "if you claim to be pro-Democracy" bit. Because we both know that you don't.

You are trying to play to MY values. But you don't seem to understand what those values are.

Because let's be completely clear: Democracy in Ukraine is what's at stake right now!

If Russia wins the war, Ukraine becomes a proxy state of Russia. If there are any faux elections, it will be with Russian-approved candidates backing Russian policies. Anyone who speaks out against Russia's illegal occupation and supports Ukraine's sovereignty will be arrested because Russia doesn't like speech against it.

And since this is Tumblr, home of the greatest queer community on the internet, let me also say that queer rights in Ukraine will be effectively DEAD.

Not that Ukraine was ever a leader of LGBTQ rights to begin with, but Russia will make it impossible to improve. They will enforce their draconian laws on Ukraine and start locking people up for so much as flying a rainbow flag.

There will never be pro-LGBTQ politicians democratically elected in a Russian-controlled Ukraine because there will be no Democracy. Any politicians who dare express supporting queer people would be thrown in prison as so-called "extremists".

LGBTQ rights are, frankly, far from the biggest issue with Russia invading and subjugating Ukraine. But they are one reason why I think your appeal to convince anyone on this website that Russia are actually the good guys will be wasted effort!

We're plural! I'm a female tulpa in an AMAB body. I'm a strong and outspoken advocate for queer rights. And I know that my gender, my beliefs and my outspokenness about those beliefs would likely land us in prison under a fascist state like Russia. Most of my followers are also some flavor of queer and would meet similar fates.

These are the two countries compared on LGBTQ rights, and Ukraine is better right now in almost every category.

It is far from perfect, but it is better than Russia in literally everything. And it WILL be worse if Russia conquers the country, leaving no path to improvement because LGBTQ rights activists will be violently suppressed.

A loss for Ukraine would be a clear and tragic loss for Democracy and human rights.

[hussyknee]

Fellas, is it an act of war against a Western European country to hold their citizens prisoner in the open air prison they're carpet bombing?

Lebanon's Hezbollah and Yemen's Houthis have been launching attacks on US military bases in Syria and Iraq and firing missiles at Israel in tandem with Hamas's attacks. All three are funded by Iran.

(I am HEAVING with laughter at Vox and every single one of these propagandist chucklefucks calling them "militias" and "terrorist organisations" and trying to frame this as justification for continuing to fund Israel like. MOTHERFUCKER WHOSE REGION ARE YOU IN EXACTLY?? WHO IS GENOCIDING PEOPLE ON THEIR OWN SOIL??)

"But they're fundie theocratic military states!!!"

*looks at Israel*

*looks at you*

*looks at current state of US*

Oh, ARE they?

US officials have met with the Lebanese caretaker government in an effort to try and prevent the conflict from spreading into Lebanon.

Um. Was this before or after Israel poured white phosphorus on Lebanon? Do y'all even have any control over your dog?

(Btw if you MCU brainrotted Western leftists don't stop trying to pick a Good Guy out of this mess instead of understanding basic geo-politics and the horrific ground realities of the countries the US and its allies have left in tatters, you're frankly just as much of an enemy to the people in those countries as your leaders are. Every one of these people are fascist cunts.)

For those of you who have been BLEATING about Ukraine non-stop, like it's NOT an expendable non-NATO country they're only interested in defending in case Putin gets any bright ideas about Poland, here's an opinion that makes sense to me:

Tell me it wouldn't be perfectly on brand if the US government announced, "Our great democracy bows to the will of the people. We hear you, we see you. We will divest...from Ukraine."

The West has never given one singular shit about protecting ANYONE from genocide. Vulnerability is liability. The only difference between them and Putin is that Putin is greedy megalomaniacal fascist surrounded by self-interested yes-men and the US is run by a committee of greedy egomaniacal fascists surrounded by self-interested yes-men whose end goal is keeping the death machine spinning money rather than even "winning" territories. All they have to do to turn this around is divest from Israel and focus on Ukraine. And no, Israel can't throw in with Putin because it'll be too busy trying to fight off three countries at once without the sugar from its Daddy.

Putin will not stop at Ukraine, for the same reason the US didn't stop at Afghanistan. Empires are built on their military power and militaries need to be fed and kept active and kept active to be fed. The minute you stop, it tries to eat itself. If Putin makes a move on Poland, NATO has to respond, and if the West is also embroiled in an all-out war with the Middle East, well. It looks kinda like a global conflict.

Oh and btw, if this does escalate into another regional war in the Middle East, we're going to be plunged into an oil crisis. Which might actually be the last straw for the UK economy, but it very DEFINITELY will be for the rest of the Global South.

(Also Biden's already auctioned off the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska for oil companies for such an intensive scale of fracking that it's projected to tip the world over the edge of climate collapse. In the event of a war in the ME, the US is going to need that oil soooooo. Good luck stopping it.)

[mariacallous]

According to an August report from the Russian state news agency TASS, the Kremlin plans to become a “safe haven for people trying to escape Western liberal ideals.” To this end, Russia will introduce a new visa pathway for foreigners fleeing countries whose policies run contrary to “traditional Russian spiritual and moral values.” The report, although sparse on detail, claims that three-month visas may be issued for these spiritual refugees as early as last month. Discussion of the policy in the Russian information sphere has been colored by visions of Moscow as the leader of a future world in which so-called traditional values can thrive. Indeed, the idea for the policy was allegedly voiced to Russian President Vladimir Putin by an Italian university student during a virtual forum titled Strong Ideas for a New Time.

On the surface, Moscow appears to be resuscitating the old Soviet practice of painting itself as the center of resistance against the West. Back then, it was against capitalism; today it is against the West’s supposed liberal decadence. But there is something thoroughly 21st century in the new rhetoric and policies. The visa plan is the latest in a series of public relations measures designed to challenge the nature of borders in an increasingly digital world. The regime is not seriously looking to attract immigrants and seems unembarrassed by the paltry numbers of Westerners taking up the offer. It is looking to strengthen its virtual coalition of fellow travelers—a maneuver that has dangerous implications for liberal nation-states seeking to counter the Kremlin’s influence.

At home, Russia’s vision of “traditional values” consists of a draconian web of pro-Russian Orthodox, misogynist, and anti-LGBTQ+ laws, as well as the teaching of a mythologized history imbued with a cult of masculine, military strength. Frequently, these policies are driven by conspiracy theories as much as any state ideology. More often than not, they simply rail against anything Russia associates with Western liberalism. Whatever trends prevail in progressive Western society, from trans-positive messaging to support for Black Lives Matter, is decried as anti-Russian and antithetical to “traditional values.” In this sense, Russia’s campaign in support of its alleged values is a project rooted in the country’s relationship with the outside.

Indeed, defending “traditional values” is at the center of the Putin regime’s domestic and foreign policy. The Kremlin’s updated 2023 National Security Concept mentions “tradition” no fewer than 16 times, claiming that “a wide-spread form of interference in the internal affairs of sovereign states has become the imposition of destructive neoliberal ideological attitudes that run counter to traditional spiritual and moral values.” Moscow has anointed itself the leader of “international efforts to ensure respect for and protection of universal and traditional spiritual and moral values.” Russia seeks to weave support for “traditional values” into its policies abroad by funding sympathetic far-right groups across Europe and North America and by linking economic and security policy to the defense of values in international forums.

Moscow’s history of proclaiming itself as the center of an international political vanguard dates to the early Bolshevik era. Throughout the 1920s and 1930s, Soviet propagandists told their citizens that they were “the greatest internationalists” in the world and that Westerners were flocking to seek refuge in the fledgling Soviet Union. The state did plenty to attract both sympathizers and industrial specialists to its territory.

A series of high-profile Western leftists were treated to Potemkin tours; among those who visited in the 1930s were George Bernard Shaw, André Gide, Henri Barbusse, and Romain Rolland. Shaw, who was granted a private audience with Joseph Stalin on his visit in 1931, lauded Russia as the home of a spiritual resurrection that would rectify the social ills he saw in the West. He would later write to the Soviet author Maxim Gorky that he was “as strongly susceptible as anyone to the fascination of the Russian character.” Shaw was fascinated with the idea of Russia not as it was, but as an antithesis to the West: a mystical place where his own dreams could be realized.

More often, though, illusions were shattered. Gide was thoroughly disheartened by his own visit to the Soviet Union. Appalled by the lack of freedom of speech, the uniformity of opinion in Pravda, and the climate of fear, he wrote: “I doubt whether in any other country in the world, even Hitler’s Germany, thought be less free, more bowed down, more fearful (terrorized), more vassalized.” Fellow intellectuals who tried living in the Soviet Union, such as the anarchists Alexander Berkman and Emma Goldman, reacted even more strongly, publishing works that violently decried the persecution of the early Soviet era and fleeing within months.

Meanwhile, the ordinary leftist refugees, workers, and students who continued to immigrate to the Soviet Union from various capitalist countries tended to leave as disgruntled as they arrived and typically went home as soon as hard currency or other special support from the Kremlin dried up. As foreigners, they were also under permanent suspicion, and many disappeared in the Gulag. Despite its grandiose claims, Moscow was never an appealing destination for many foreign fellow travelers—especially once they experienced the reality of Soviet life.

Recent publicity tours in Putin’s Russia mirror the early celebrity visits to the Soviet Union—although today’s visitors tend to share Shaw’s excitement, not Gide’s revulsion, about life in Moscow’s realm. Right-wing provocateurs such as Jackson Hinkle and, most famously, Tucker Carlson have popped up in Moscow to record adulatory videos for their vast online audiences. Carlson, who posted clips of an interview he conducted with Putin this year, claimed to have been “radicalized” by his trip to Moscow. His video diaries depicted a world of fully stocked grocery stores, immaculate subway stations, and grandiose performances at the Bolshoi Theater. Even Tasty, Full Stop, the copycat McDonald’s that sprung up after the fast food giant’s departure from Russia in 2022, won Carlson’s approval.

Carlson’s Russia seems to be nothing but propaganda: the depiction of a fake world, untarnished by the poverty and violence that is endemic in Russian society. Yet Carlson carefully crafted an image of a Russia that is, essentially, a Disneyfied America: Here was a rich white man treated like royalty and able to access every aspect of an idealized American life—even McDonald’s—in a society shorn of the perceived messiness of today’s America, and especially of its supposedly deleterious progressive values. Like Shaw, then, Carlson projected onto Russia the hyperreality of a desired homeland: the dream America of the MAGA brigade. Moscow’s behavior on the international stage may challenge Washington’s geopolitical supremacy, but its “traditional values” rhetoric functions as an escapist simulation.

Today’s online proponents of “traditional values”—whether in the United States, Hungary, Austria or elsewhere—can thus react enthusiastically to Russia’s plans to welcome them as immigrants, even if they have no intention of ever moving to the country. In response to the policy announcement, Alex Jones, the bankrupted Infowars founder, encouraged “true patriots” to “stand up for spiritual and moral values” in a post on X. On Truth Social, the right-wing social network founded by former U.S. President Donald Trump, Moscow’s plan was met with enthusiasm—not for Russia as some sort of conservative utopia, but for the rejection of cultural traits associated with progressive America. The fantasy of Russia as the “new America,” as one Truth user put it, provides the raw material for bonding around conspiracy theories and anti-progressivism from the comfort of home—and makes it possible for self-styled patriots to sympathize more with Russia than with their own country.

Only a handful of fellow travelers on the traditional values ticket have attempted to make the move to Russia. While the Russian state has recently trumpeted an American family’s escape from “the dissolution of traditional moral and family values,” the experience of other recent arrivals has left them desperate to “jump on a plane and get out of here.” Russian authorities do little to help with schooling, jobs, language training, and so on—and claims of bold projects to house incoming foreigners turn out to be little more than amplified rumors. Presumably the latest policy announcement will be another element of simulated reality: the creation of the idea of Russia as the home of traditional values without anything to back up that vision.

However, when 21st-century fellow travelers are able to bond over and amplify their visions of Russia as the new America in the online world, Russia’s approach may turn out to be more than an easily debunked PR scheme. Pravda’s monotonous reel of uniform opinions shocked Gide, but today’s Russia sympathizers are more likely to be found in polarized social bubbles where the order of the day is conformity, not plurality, of opinion. Unlike their 1930s predecessors, who could not get a sense of Soviet reality from abroad, today’s fellow travelers have Russian reality at their fingertips—if they care to look. This includes thousands of hours of footage of war crimes, evidence of widespread oppression of dissenting voices, and accounts of the systematic repression of religious believers outside the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church.

Yet in the fragmented world of social media, where anyone can live in their own self-constructed reality, the disaffected are able to project an imagined anti-liberal vision of reality onto Russia. In the United States, this culminates in MAGA voters giving a higher approval rating to Putin than to their own president, something that was unimaginable in the 20th century outside a tiny, politically irrelevant fringe. Parties that have aligned themselves with the rhetoric of “traditional values” have enjoyed real successes across Europe, including recently in France and Austria, and the MAGA movement may yet carry Trump back into the White House. Russia’s “traditional values” project may not win it a war or generate an influx of migrants, but it has a clear effect on other countries’ politics.

Most analysts consider Russia’s dream of creating a multipolar world in which its territorial, economic, and military might acts as a counterpoint to U.S. or Chinese hegemony a fantasy. Equally outlandish is the idea, much propagated by Russian nationalists, of a new Eurasian empire—or even, given Russia’s depleting strength, reuniting Ukraine, Belarus, and today’s Russian Federation into a “Great Russia.” But analysis that overemphasizes the physical over the virtual—or dismisses online movements as mere propaganda and trolling—fails to recognize 21st-century realities.

The most important future clash of civilizations is not based on geography. Instead, we are beginning to see the creation of virtual civilizations: boundary-less political allegiances defined by amorphous and fluid values perpetuated through the internet. Citizens with similar affinities in Russia, the United States, France, Germany, and wherever find themselves having more in common—and spending more time—with each other than with their own compatriots who don’t share their political views. Putin’s Russia may not be about to conquer Ukraine or create a multipolar world order, but it is working to reorder political identities by encouraging foreigners to view Moscow as a simulated realization of their own political dreams.

[virgomary]

i think we've really missed our shot back when we didn't call these putin-simping accelerationists trump supporters.

if your loyalties seem to, overwhelmingly, align with that man, it's what you are.

the fact that these supposed "leftists"(lol) are now openly celebrating trump's win shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

they were very vocal in the online pro palestine movement and I think that managed to pull wool over people's eyes but the fact they were acting like not voting was some sort of 'direct action' even though trump's election would sign a death warrant on palestine should have been a clue. the fact they talk about ukraine the exact same way trump does should have been an even bigger one.

[walnutbun]

Just want to say, @ all of you self-proclaimed "leftists" and "progressives" who refused to vote for Harris, whatever your reasoning:

FUCK YOU.

This is on YOU.

You knew what was at stake here, and you STILL did this shit to us. You decided that strategic voting was somehow above you, that your perceived moral superiority was more important than the rights of women, LGBTQ+ people, minorities, and basically everyone who isn't a cishet white Christian male.

Trump won because of you, and now he's got the Senate - and quite possibly the House, too. You know what that means? Even more far-right "justices". Say goodbye to gay marriage - it was nice while it lasted. Oh, and don't kid yourself - there's no chance in hell he's keeping his promise to veto a national abortion ban. Even if he does, though, the Supreme Court will make it law for him.

Speaking of kidding yourselves, don't even try the "it's only four years" shit. The Supreme Court already took care of that - he's got total immunity for anything he does that's related to the "core powers of the office". I'm sure that he and his buddies can think of a way to ensure that, even if he can't stay President, we never see another Democratic POTUS.

Oh, and by the way: HE'S WORSE ON ISRAEL, YOU FUCKING MORONS. With Harris there was at least a chance to talk her out of supporting the genocide - with Trump, Gaza will be lucky not to be nuked. Say goodbye to Ukraine, too, since everyone knows Trump is in bed with Putin. Hell, Putin's probably already preparing a "justification" for continuing to march the Russian army westward.

I'd say that I hope the lower grocery prices was worth it, but he won't even do that - his tariffs will drive prices of everything through the fucking roof (on top of the greedy corporations who - spoiler alert - were the ones driving the recession in the first place, trying to recoup lost profits from COVID).

All of you. You all decided it was OK to gamble with other people's lives. Even if the gamble had worked out, you'd still have been horrible people for risking it - but it didn't work out, did it?

On behalf of those of us who will suffer because of your selfish choices, fucking thanks. I hope the ability to pat yourself on the back and say "well at least I didn't vote for someone who supports Israel" was worth the death, destruction, and suffering that he'll inevitably cause.

[xclowniex]

One of the most disappointing things about the past few years is how much it's exposed how much of a self-centered joke the online left has exposed itself to be.

I joined the left overtime as a reaction to the likes of Trump getting power, and his horrific desire to bring about his own dictatorship over America. I for quite a long time thought a lot of the problem stemmed from centrist types not taking his threat seriously enough (which was partially true in some ways), which only fueled my shift to the left more and more as I saw the end result of the pandemic and the lackluster reaction from the people who most supported the status quo in regards to many things.

I thought in many ways that would be the end of that; that progressivism was what society needed, and that we had to do everything in our power to pull society away from the problematic and deeply flawed status quo, and ESPECIALLY away from the likes of Trump and the Fascist GOP.

But then Biden got elected, and I started seeing the cracks.

The griping, the moaning, and self-righteousness just started popping up from the left. At first I didn't think too much of it, because Biden wasn't my first choice either, but I accepted the fact that it was better him than Trump, and frankly it was much easier to get things done under him than under a dictatorial asshole and egomaniac with too much power and support.

But the self-righteousness just would not stop coming from the left, mixed together with the realization that for every progressive who genuinely tried to make things better, there seemed to be far more whom only cared about their own image and brand of being "better than thou" without any actual substance, never mind the ones who actively seemed to go out of their way to support outright authoritarian regimes like Putin out of some notion it'd lead to Communism, despite the far right literally also wanting Putin to have more power for FASCISM.

It felt like people just flat out were falling into the same kind of conspiracy stuff as QAnon, where somehow they were loathed for their conspiratorial thinking, and yet somehow it became fine when "OUR SIDE" was dipping into that same kind of rhetoric and thinking. And for all that people constantly bayed for blood and for taking drastic measures, I never once saw them ever DO anything of the sort. I just started becoming warier and more thinking that people were just full of hot air, that for all of their talk none of them would ever willingly choose to fight for real because they didn't have any real courage, just a bunch of slogans and hot air.

And then Ukraine happened. And then I/P happened.

Honestly, those two things just fucking pissed me off, disillusioned me immensely, because it was like the mask just flew off. All of sudden, so called progressives were praising authoritarian behavior so long as it was under the pretense of socialism and communism. All of a sudden they started throwing around hateful slurs and propaganda like it was nobody's business. Actively and literally suggesting that we allow society to fall, for democracy to fall so that a fascist could destroy their enemies and push them towards their own ideology, despite the reality that THAT kind of thing has NEVER WORKED out for the people who are already suffering and broken.

It made me realize that a lot of so called "leftists" didn't care in the slightest about actually building towards a better world, only in wiping out the people they viewed as an obstacle to an easy utopia where they didn't have to care about other people as people. That everyone else was just their pawn, their prop for their own twisted egos of being against the eeeeeevil establishment, all while deciding to be just as monstrous as the evil they oppose.

I've honestly never felt so disappointed in my entire life, because I genuinely thought that people valued the idea of a better tomorrow, that even if having to work with the likes of Biden kinda sucked, that we'd have learned from the magical thinking of the Trump Cult and QAnon and recognized that progress would be a long, difficult, but necessary step towards a truly better future. That we would eventually replace the Bidens of the world with a better President who would slowly move things forward, and then replaced with their better successor who moved things forward as well, and so on and so forth. It'd be slow, but it'd be substantial, something we could work with.

Instead, it seems like a lot of leftists just wanted a left-wing version of Trump, where all their enemies are eliminated and they perch themselves atop their ivory towers to sneer down at the stupid liberal and conservative masses for not bowing to their greatness. Or they just burn everything and everyone else down while they skedaddle to the safety and comfort of their privileged lives to laugh and jeer at everyone for not submitting to their ideological zealotry, or just to escape the fallout of their heinous actions.

i 100% agree.

I feel like a lot of leftists (including myself back when i was a teen tbh) never worked through the right wing ideology they grew up with and saw values they thought were neat (are still are good things) such as queer rights and liberation, liberations for indigenous peoples, ending racism, etc etc etc, and instead of genuinely holding those values, they just used the same right wing authoritarian logic they claim to despise except backing that logic is leftist progressive ideas.

For example, leftists are supposed to be anti fascism yet, they want their politcal enemies to die or whilst they don't actively want a political enemy to die, they will gladly celebrate their death.

And like, there is a difference between celebrating the death of someone who has actually done harm due to their politics vs celebrating the death of someone who just holds opposing political ideas.

I also agree that there is a sense of being holier than thou from the left. There seems to be a pissing contest of who can be the most progressive to the point where it swings back around to being right wing either fully or to a point.

Whilst I still hold leftist and progressive values, I have definitely shifted away from calling myself a leftist as I do not want to associate with leftists who hold leftists values yet excecute them with right wing tactics. Maybe at some point in the future I will go back to proudly calling myself a leftist, but for now I am a bit ashamed of how quickly leftist values exit the room when talking about jews or other minorities.

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

@mittensmorgul replied to your post “Results in Italy not even that bad. Main...”:

it's a relief to know some of the election went less awful than the small amount of news i've seen here in the us seems to suggest, so thank you :)

​ah well countries like france and germany get more coverage than us or spain (that also got not disappointing results, left-wing party got less votes than right-wing but not as bad as expected/feared, and extreme right-wing didn't get a great result)...

pretty sure the votes in Italy as a whole moved actually more left than the last national elections! the top right-wing party (very right-wing but also pro-nato/pro-ukraine, which is important right now on a eu level!) stayed stable as % of votes, but the main left-wing party got a higher % than the last elections, and also the more-left left + green coalition got a good result!

the center-right party (berlusconi's party, pro-nato/ukraine, pro-european union) got more votes than lega (pro-putin, anti-eu right-wing populists that had an actual fascist as top list candidate) which is a very significant result considering that lega has been consistently one of the top parties if not the first for many elections.

("salvini got beaten by berlusconi - who is dead" is my favorite quote from an analyst)

also, the data about the younger demographic show that the young people voted DRAMATICALLY left. good sign, right?

basically we did our part and did alright.

also i believe that eastern countries voted more against-filoputin parties than expected, which i suppose makes sense considering the putin threat is more real to them.

we need to hope macron is going to use the elections as basically blackmail for the leftist parties to support him against le pen - and that it actually works. no one likes macron except for macron, that's the problem...

[gryficowa]

Oh yes, people defend Assad because "He has a family and supports Palestine"

Trump also has a family and no one is defending him, and from what I heard, Assad suppressed Palestinian strikes in Syria and named one prison "Palestine" in order to make people afraid of this name…

I'm a leftist and I'm facepalming reading this shit… Yes, the rebels are sus and supposedly related to Israel, but come on, defending Assad? He was a tyrant and having a family for him means nothing

Putin has three daughters and somehow no one uses the phrase "He is not a tyrant, he has three children"

Now I'm worried about the cities in Syria that Israel is attacking… These people can't even celebrate their freedom because Israel will take advantage of it… Whenever there is happiness, Israel shows up to ruin everything

[jewishbarbies]

Hi, I hope this isn't rude, but could you please breakdown your thoughts on the whole 'people saying celebrities are terrible because they are zionist, or similar things' thing? Because I've seen it a lot.

this is a little long just because I wanted to be thorough in explaining the reasoning and thought processes here so sorry if you weren’t up for that.

well, just based on historical fact, claiming jews are not indigenous to the levant is asinine and antisemitic. so when people are upset someone is a zionist, they’re upset they believe in jewish indigeneity. that, and they grossly misunderstand zionism and its many forms. they hear zionist and immediately jump to “this person hates palestinians, wants them all dead, and bootlicks for the Israeli government” and that’s where 99% of problems lie when discussing it. because that’s not what it means. the root belief of zionism is that jews have the right to self determination in the land they’re indigenous to, not that no one else can too. there’s no tenant of zionism that states you HAVE to wipe everyone else in the region out in order to self determine there.

now, there’s political and Christian zionism which are both corrupt and bigoted versions of zionism (most jews agree with this, from what I can tell). it’s christian and political zionism that’s used in the way leftists think ALL zionism is. christians use their zionism to be Islamophobic and continue voting for republicans because they fetishize jews and the modern state of Israel. politicians use their zionism to beguile american christian voters and further sow seeds of hate in their base. both these camps use jews as scapegoats for their hatred and lust for power, and progressives have fallen for it hook line and sinker because terrorist organizations like hamas know they can work both sides with this and some misinformation disguised as colorful infographics on social media.

just like the russian bots that have been spewing disinformation to rally support for putin and hate for ukraine, terrorists use leftists’ fundamental misunderstanding of zionism, judaism, and their internal bias toward jews to gain support for hamas, claiming hamas is simply fighting back against israel. but they use language leftists have become obsessed with to do it - like colonialism, for example. they know leftists give a strong response to that language and are prone to fall victim to propaganda, and they’ve used it to their advantage for decades. palestinians haven’t had an election since 2007. would freedom fighters do that? no. freedom fighters value - you guessed it - freedom.

my thoughts are that leftists fall victim to disinformation like “zionism = colonialism because jews are all white Europeans” because they refuse to vet their sources and responsibly engage with the things happening in the world. they would much rather scream at and boycott and ostracize a minority community than do the work because screaming is easier and more people hear it. being mad about zionism for these people has become a social competition to see who can seem the most progressive, and it’s only shown their bare asses. they’re refusing to listen to the 70% of palestinians who want a peaceful resolution with Israel, the people of gaza who marched during oppression chanting anti hamas chants, and refuse to acknowledge what happened on Oct 7th because all of it would make supporting hamas the wrong thing to do. they’re too deep in it now. they can’t admit they’ve been fucking up. they can’t admit that they wanted revolution in their own country so bad that they yelled over and trampled the people they claimed to be trying to help, and they can’t admit they’ve fallen for propaganda because they’ve convinced themselves they’re immune. they believe they’d punch nazis and hide jews and they’re soooo progressive there’s no way they’d fall for obvious lies. but they have. and they will continue to do so until it’s their lives being played with by privileged assholes in another country with racial biases.

unless someone who identifies as zionist is actually calling for the death and/or relocation of palestinians in the region, then no, they’re not terrible. it’s truly that simple.