#knight lyonor

[kxmpfflieger]

Lautrec and Lyonor monthly mourning session

[queer-ragnelle]

Do you know of any modern stories that include Guiomar/Guingemuer/Gringamore? For a guy who is Guinevere's cousin, Lynette and Lyonors/Lyonesse's brother, probably Laurel's dad, and Morgan's boytoy/ex he sure is woefully underused.

For that matter do you know of any that include Edern ap Nudd/Yder son of Nudd? So many stories replacing Lancelot with Bedivere and sleeping on her having an affair with a god! The brother of king Gwyn! xdyfguyhu

(Why does nobody appreciate the untapped potential of these characters except me?!)

Hey there! I definitely have seen these characters pop up in retellings! Although I’ve never encountered a combination of Gringamore/Guiomar to fulfill both roles, only Gringamore as he appears in Le Morte d’Arthur. But I have examples for those three characters to share. Gwyn is referenced in relation to the Wild Hunt quite often, but I’ve only listed things in which he’s an actual character with dialogue. Additionally the spellings of Gwyn ap Nudd and Edern ap Nudd vary considerably so I’ll include those in case you want to key-word search and find them.

Gringamore

The Story of Sir Launcelot and His Companions by Howard Pyle

Gareth of Orkney by Edith Ditmus

The Savage Damsel and the Dwarf by Gerald Morris

Gwyn ap Nudd

The Quest for Olwen by Thomas Crossley-Holland (Gwyn son of Nuth)

Queen of Summer Stars by Persia Woolley (Gwyn of Neath)

Guinevere The Legend in Autumn by Persia Woolley (Gwyn of Neath)

Edern/Yder ap Nudd

The Story of the Grail and the Passing of Arthur by Howard Pyle (renamed Gaudeamus, Knight of the Sparrow-Hawk)

Idylls of the King by Alfred Lord Tennyson (Edryn son of Nudd)

King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table by Roger Lancelyn Green (Yder, Knight of the Sparrow-Hawk)

Stories From King Arthur and His Round Table by Beatrice Clay (Edeyrn, Knight of the Sparrow-Hawk)

Stories of King Arthur by Blanche Winder (Knight of the Sparrow-Hawk)

Tales of King Arthur and His Knight's of the Round Table by Margaret Vere Farrington (Edeyon son of Nudd

The Sword and the Circle by Rosemary Sutcliff (Edern son of Nudd)

The Hedge of Mist by Peter Valentine Timlett (Edern son of Nudd)

Guinevere The Legend in Autumn by Persia Woolley (Yder)

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I can say for certain. But it gives you a lot to read. Take care! :^)

[gingersnaptaff]

I know you already answered but can I ask again for another 😈💏 and also 😇

YES, EVAN ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!

😈 Who is a character you discovered this year? (Negative, beloathed)

ESPINOGRES. Bad man. Bad. Evil. Don't KIDNAP LADIES. Don't try and vamp your daughter. Don't abandon a paramour cuz you found a better model. What is WRONG WITH YOU?

🧑‍❤️‍💋‍🧑 What is a ship you discovered you enjoy this year?

People shipping Gareth x Lynette, you're doing the lord's work. God bless. (I kinda thought they would get together but was super sad when they didn't. Why did she get lumped with Gaheris? Why did Gareth have to go with Lyonors. Why do I feel so strongly about this?)

Also Gawain x Kay. Holy fuuuuuuck. Rewired my brain chem. Thank u, Cherith Baldry. Thank u Exiled From Camelot. Thank you @caer-gai and @queer-ragnelle for recommending it

😇 Who is a character you discovered this year? (Positive, blorbo)

PALOMIDES!!!! Sir, I was not familiar with your game and that is ON ME. Shout out to Lev Grossman's 'The Bright Sword' for that. Superb book. Beloved. My penguin hot water bottle is now called Pal because of Palomides. (Also, Parrot because of the anon who suggested I name it after the parrot from 'Knight of the Parrot.'

[windflowerofskellige]

“What’s wrong?” Asked the Nordling Knight.

Lyonors’s hands trembled. “There is a girl... I see her in my dreams. There is fire and smoke. My father will not look at me. There is a girl. Will she be the end of me?”

[kxmpfflieger]

finally finished the refs for this stupid fanfiction ive had in my head since 2016

[queer-ragnelle]

✏️ + 😭(and how do you overcome them? + ❓ if you could summarize each of your duologies with an overarching theme, what would it be?

✏️ What are your current WIPs about?

Dusk Eternal is a Romantic Suspense and Psychological and Body Horror duology from the perspectives of Ragnelle and Gawain. It evokes the narratives of The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle, The Marriage of Sir Gawain, The Turke and Sir Gawain, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Lady of the Fountain, The Crown, the Vulgate, the Avesta, and The Shahnameh. Plot-bearing side characters include Gromer, Gaheris, Owain and Laudine, Morgan le Fay, Agravaine and Laurel, Beaumains, Lancelot and Galehaut, Amurfina, Pelleas and Ettarde, Kay and Bedwyr, and characters from Persian mythology including Arash the Archer, Simorgh, and Zal. Legacy Lost is a “Whodunit” Mystery, Monster and Psychological Horror duology from the perspectives of Lamorak and Agravaine. It evokes the narratives of the Prose Tristan, Geraint and Enid, La Tavola Ritonda, Le Morte d'Arthur, and the Vulgate. Plot-bearing side characters include Pellinore and Ursula, Lot and Morgause, Laurel, Tor, Gawain and Ragnelle, Aglovale, Gaheris and Lynette, Gareth and Lyonors, Mordred, Geraint and Enid, Palomides, Dinadan, Morgan le Fay, Tristan and Isolde, Kay and Bedwyr. Chivalry's Bond is a Conspiracy Thriller/Suspense and Monster Horror from the perspectives of Perceval and Elaine. It evokes the narratives of Parzival, Peredur, Culhwch and Olwen, Morien, and the Vulgate. Plot-bearing side characters include Ursula, Dindrane, Lancelot, Pelles, Brisane, Aglovale, Lamorak, Tor, Morien, Culhwch and Olwen, Ysbaddaden, Guinevere, Gawain and Ragnelle, Kay and Bedwyr. Misbegotten is a Coming of Age and Psychic Horror duology from the perspectives of Mordred and Galahad. It evokes the narratives of Alliterative Morte, Wigalois, Sir Libeaus Desconus, and the Vulgate/Post-Vulgate. Plot-bearing side characters include Morgause, Agravaine and Laurel, Lancelot and Elaine, Arthur and Guinevere, Gawain and Ragnelle, Gingalain, Lovel, Bors, and Lionel. The ending duology is... a Tragedy of everything mashed together.

😭 What are the biggest challenges writing your WIPs?

Maintaining momentum and consistency. It's very easy to feel like I put all my creative power into book 1 and then had none left for the rest because of burn out. I realize though it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be done. I'm determined to follow through and finish before I die. Back on the grind in 2025.

❓ If you could summarize each of your duologies with an overarching theme, what would it be?

Dusk Eternal: The horrors (our outer selves don't match our inner selves). Legacy Lost: The horrors (monsters are real and they know my secret). Chivalry's Bond: The horrors (religious trauma can manifest tragedy). Misbegotten: The horrors (submitting to the mortifying ordeal of being known). End: The horrors (we tried our best but it wasn't good enough).

[queer-ragnelle]

Hi there, you don't have to post this on the blog, but I wanted to thank you for your earlier post with regard to different interpretations and iterations of Arthuriana. I really admire your work in/thoughts on all things Arthurian, and seeing you say "Each iteration is it's own self-contained world and anything is possible within that framework" was such a freeing thing. I'm currently writing an Arthurian thing where Lancelot falls for/ends up with someone who isn't Guinevere, and I often wrestle with the doubt of "if he isn't in love with Guinevere, am I really being true to the stories and the canon?" But each iteration is its own self-contained world, and I can honor the stories in other ways while still doing my own thing in this particular story/world. Anyway, all this to say, I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but I appreciate your insight and the encouragement it brings. Take care!

Hi there! Sorry for the delay in responding, but I wanted to think about this a bit beforehand. In writing my own Arthurian series, as well as reading and watching absolutely everything I can get ahold of, historical, medieval, and modern, I’ve developed a whole philosophy about it. So my reply got long hehe. Here’s what I think…

In the ask you referenced, I talked about how Arthurian legend lacks a true "canon," and how the stories all build off each other. The inconsistency from text to text and even chapter to chapter within the same story affords us endless opportunities for creative reinterpretation. I can basically be sold on any concept. I’ve read a lot of retellings at this point and I’m not married to any specific “canon.” If the writer can convince me that, in this version of the story, things played out differently, then I’m happy to get invested. For example, in Exiled From Camelot by Cherith Baldry, she develops Lyonors, Gareth’s wife, and makes her into a likable character the reader can easily ship with Gareth. On the other hand, I definitely see why people prefer Lynette with Gareth, as Tennyson did, and the majority of other retellings follow suit. Even so, I think Lynette and Gaheris made an adorable pair in Squire’s Tales #3, and it was a satisfying reveal in Squire’s Tales #7 that the pov character was their daughter, Lunette. It’s indicated through context clues who her parents are when they arrive at the end referring to each other by pet names. In the same vein, while I favor Ragnelle, Gawain can have any number of partners so long as the author writes the chemistry well. And while I still firmly believe Agravaine is gay in essentially every retelling, I do love Sarah Zettel’s romance Camelot’s Blood that she wrote between him and Laurel. I’m an Orkney Wives fan first and an Orkney Bros fan second haha!

That being said, Orkney Bros have always been inconsistent, so changing their love interests isn’t actually that drastic. In the case of Lancelot and Guinevere, severing their romantic connection is a huge departure from the norm. Undoubtedly, some people won’t “get it” or say it’s out of character. But the thing to remember is, there is no singular source for Arthuriana, so how can they ever be out of character? Let’s get into it.

Firstly, you don’t need to rationalize your narrative choices. To anybody. So long as you’re writing something for the sake of authenticity and good storytelling (rather than simply to be contrarian or edgy or quirky etc) it will resonate with your audience. That said, there’s medieval precedence for your concept. In Alliterative Morte Arthure, Lancelot is listed many times as one of Arthur’s knights. He’s there. Yet it is Mordred who adulterously marries Guinevere. In the romance retelling Lancelot by Gwen Rowley, Guinevere is not the love interest, but Elaine. Another similar angle is explored in Port Eternity by CJ Cherryh, which takes place entirely from Elaine’s point of view. Guinevere isn’t even truly in it and her stand in doesn’t fulfill the same role. In The Adventures of Sir Lancelot (1956), Lancelot definitely has A Thing with both the King and Queen, but a potential affair is not explored or even hinted at. He’s their bestie, their confidant, their most trusted person apart from each other. The key here is Lancelot still loves Guinevere (or her stand in), however that manifests. There’s no active dislike or hatred between them. In that circumstance, I don’t think the character would feel like Lancelot anymore. But changing the nature of his love for Guinevere from romantic to something else does not diminish its narrative value, as the above examples prove. Their friendship is the core of their relationship, as the Vulgate proves, and maintaining that is important.

It’s not so much about asking yourself, “Is [narrative choice] true to the ‘canon?’” as asking, “How do I tell a good story containing [narrative choice]?” There are examples of this done poorly, in my opinion. I’ve elaborated many many many times about David Lowery’s fumbling of The Green Knight (2021) and how that particular iteration falls short of a true adaptation (which I don’t think he set out to do anyway, to be fair) but also proved an unsuccessful reimagining of the poem due to mismanaged references and motifs. I didn’t like Once & Future by Cori McCarthy and Amy Rose Capetta or The Winter Knight by Jes Battis for the same reasons—both books felt like shallow, meandering stories lacking narrative integrity with a veneer of Arthuriana over it. Reincarnation AUs are not an excuse to flanderaize characters. Battis writes Wayne (Gawain) acknowledging how drastically he differs from his medieval counterpart, but awareness of it doesn’t negate the facts: the story suffers for it. On the contrary, Camelot 3000 gives an entire character arc surrounding this premise to Tristan, who has reincarnated AFAB and struggles with his gender identity and with accepting Isolde’s love for him, changed though he is. First Knight (1995) really screws up by making Lancelot a misogynistic creeper who relentlessly pursues Guinevere and even forces a kiss on her. King Arthur: Legend of The Sword (2017) is insultingly bad by showcasing just how stupid it thinks its audience is, brutalizing and killing women left and right, giving unnecessary screen time to obnoxious OCs, and bastardizing every aspect of the legend it drew from. Meanwhile the Fate Grand Order anime cuts out Guinevere entirely. Her role exists as a void. It makes no sense, then, that Lancelot and Agravaine clash as “fellow traitors,” because the woman at the center of the conflict is literally never present. Seven Deadly Sins anime has finally gotten around to Lancelot and Guinevere meeting, and she’s a clingy girl Lancelot is disinterested in, trying to flip the script on their roles, and only exacerbating the misogyny problem in shounen in the process.

Fear not! Loving Arthurian legend automatically enshrines anything you create in a glittering anti-garbage shield! So many versions exist that draw on the elements just because they can with no respect for the material nor their audience. You literally can’t do worse than what’s already out there and there are no original ideas! Published retellings love crackships, they love mixing it up, changing the expected, surprising us! So long as Guinevere isn’t made worse to make Lancelot’s alternative love interest better, and Lancelot himself isn’t turned inside out until he’s unrecognizable, you’re golden. Follow your gut and write something you would enjoy, develop it well within your own universe, and there will be an audience for it. I’m certainly among them!

Thanks for the ask. Have a lovely day! :^)

[windflowerofskellige]

I am considering redrawing that painting with the lady leaning off the horse to the knight but as Lyonors and Morvran...