#kishimoto i will fight you
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yamato saying to sakura: "it doesn't matter whether the things you do for him are great or small, what matters most is how much you care, really care, about naruto" is actually kishimoto relegating her to the role of the carer like most of the female characters in naruto and it's really depressing
#kishimoto i will fight you#my girl can create fucking earthquakes#she doesn't deserve to be treated this way by the narrative#has anyone ever written a retelling of the anime/manga but with sakura being an actual character with agency?#i would read that#naruto#sakura haruno
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Whenever someone tries to make a point about something the Konoha kunoichis, I need to make a pause and remind them how out of character they were in some of those moments.
Kishimoto pretty much abandoned Sakura and Ino's friendship and then tried to bring it back during the War arc. Ino lost her sensei and then her dad, and when was Sakura? You mean to tell me she wouldn't care? About any of it? Or when Sasuke was declared to be killed, do you mean to tell me that Ino wouldn't have run to find Sakura?
The way Hinata was written on Shippuden???? Naruto aside, people forget that Hinata refused to give up during the Chunning Exams and forced Neji to almost kill her if he wanted the victory. She was stubborn, she was prideful too, she had more going on than simply a crush on Naruto. She was told by her father she was a failure and yet she didn't give up on becoming a kunoichi, did she?
Then why is that Shippuden wrote her like her sole ambition was Naruto, hm?
And Tenten? She was MEAN when she wanted to be because she was highly competitive. We know that she wanted to train under Tsunade, so where did the death of that dream take her? She's such a powerful kunoichi and yet we know so little about her personality, her life...
We got "Ino and Hinata know some medic min techniques" in the most random way possible... We know Sakura would walk around with Hinata even, so what about their girl bonding moments during the genin to Shippuden years?
It made me so angry whenever the girls treated each other like strangers in Shippuden. So many stupid situations made to highly their teammates even if I meant to write the girls out of character...
#Hinata was ambitious back then!!! Yes she was inspired by Naruto by the fight was her own#she didn't fight for him she fight for herself#the whole point of their connection is that they were both losers rooting for each other to succeed#out of the Team 7 members Sakura was the one who spend more time with the rookie 9#I'm not saying they should like her better than Naruto but they shouldn't definitely know her better!!#and you mean to tell me they didn't care about her mental state when they were told that Sasuke was to be killed?#none of them?#I love Sai but Kishimoto took the character who knew less about it to give Sakura a lecture and no one else showed up? at any moment?#I'm convinced Kishimoto only did that to force the Sakura confession to Naruto and feed the love triangle agenda#it sucks to be the female love interest in a story focus on the male parts of the love triangle#I'm actually glad Kishimoto didn't write Tenten so ooc but it's still a shame we got so little Team Gai on Shippuden#they were mostly filler after being one of the strongest genin teams in Konoha#bless Temari and Tsunade for being the best written female characters of Naruto#because I'll never forget Kushina wanted to be Hokage and they gave it to her husband#anyway#naruto#sakura haruno#ino yamanaka#hinata hyuuga#tenten naruto#kunoichi#kunoichis#naruto female characters#naruto shippuden#konoha kunoichis
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#Naruto#Madara Uchiha#Hashirama Senju#hashimada#I really wish we would've gotten to see more of their fight after they were reanimated#too bad that was the part in the manga where kishimoto gave up on himself#ugh love them#madara being so different that hashirama sees a stranger#and is unable to understand why he can no longer get through to him the way he used to#babe he's 80 years older than you'll ever know#this is not the man you thought you killed#madara has lost everything by the end of his real life#when he's reanimated he's completely abandoned his humanity#finally gets to let some of that anger out#love him so much#good for him#myart
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I swear Kishimoto just forgets Sakura's there half the time, Sasuke didn't have to take on that one dude by himself.
#She like disappeared and then reappeared what the hell man#You can't possibly blame Sakura for doing nothing when Kishimoto hardly did anything with her until she was relevant enough#and as a Sakura fan I was mad she never got to fight and we she did her and Ino were in a draw#and imo Sakura should have won that fight#naruto#Sakura Haruno
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Hijacking this post to say that my pet theory is that to have 'revolutionary s*suke' at the forefront of your perception of sasuke you have to have entered naruto fandom before finishing naruto (probably because it was still in serialisation). Because reading the whole thing all the way through makes it pretty clear that s*suke's fatal flaw is his (completely understandable and fair, trauma-induced) decision to view everyone else as pawns. He's right about the system, but he can't be the one to fix it because he doesn't actually care or even really perceive the common individual. His sudden desire to be Hokage immediately after planning to massacre everyone in the village is a culmination of his fatal flaw, ie: that he wasn't a revolutionary for the people, he was a revolutionary against some fuckers. Which, again, completely just and reasonable, speak your truth king, but sasuke in power would have been a definite Bad End scenario for the average poor sod. Indeed the ideal scenario for s*suke is him getting to knock down the current corrupt system and then fuck of into the wilderness to pet crows and kick people he dislikes in the balls—which is pretty much what happens, bar the actual dismantling of the system because, yknow, b*ruto needed space to happen.
Wait this got away from me a little. What i wanted to bring this 'round to is that blaming any of team 7 for s*suke pushing them away is missing the point. He's traumatized. It makes him a bit of a dick in some situations. That's fine. Him not being perfect doesn't invalidate him being a victim or even a hero.
#naruto thoughts#similarly i think sakura stans got invested around the chunin exams arc and weren't prepared for shippuden#where she has a decent arc but is more of a side character than fellow protagonist#and they blame kakashi for it#which is funny#because you can tell that kishimoto intended to show that kakashi had taught sakura a lot - specifically around genjutsu#as shown during various moments of the chunin exams arc#but his complete inability to write female characters esp. them having more than one extremely limited skill#meant that a) her growth has to happen offscreen#and b) when he wanted to make her a medic she had to shelf every other skill#and as for weird naruto fans hyperfixating on one (1) decision by a guy to give a *teaching professional* the job of teaching his student#a subject he's not that great at teaching#before that student fights his friends student#while he focuses on preparing his dangerously obsessed other student for his death match against *a literal serial killer*#well. i don't think they understood that part#or the point of the rest of naruto for that matter
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Ok I'm thinking about kabuto backstory again and thinking about how unfair and fucked up it all is like
> be Danzo
> threaten local orphanage mother into returning to being a spy (by threatening the kids there)
> force them to send One Kid too because he "lost a man" while obtaining the intel he's threatening her to spy over (the kid is Kabuto, who volunteered bc he overheard them threatening the mother over this) (Danzo knows he overheard)
> train kabuto to be a spy while orphanage mother is off on her long spy job as well
> bait spy mom with the promise of keeping kabuto safe to keep her agreeing to work with you
> decide they both are too good at their jobs (????) Of being spies (that work for you?????)(they've been loyal this whole time????) So they're too dangerous and both need to die
> keep mom and kid away from each other as kid grows up
> literally DOCTOR FAKE PHOTOS of the kid growing up to make it seem like he looks totally different now???? So she won't recognize him?????
> give her the assassination assignment of killing the Real Kabuto (who she won't recognize) so they'll kill each other
> whoops, Kabuto survived and killed her instead, oh well at least Orochimaru's watching him now
I'm just like. How fucked up is it to threaten these people into working as spies for you "for the good of Konoha", and then decide that these people (who have given NO INDICATION of intending to betray Konoha) are too good at being spies and thus Too Dangerous and should be killed for it. But no he can't just kill them in a normal way. He had to manufacture an entire scenario so that they'd kill EACH OTHER while making the mom not recognize him (with the express purpose of breaking the kid's spirit) like BROOOOOO I know you ordered the whole Uchiha clan to be massacred (conducting genocide for the sake of 'peace') actually now that I think about it he ordered this of itachi. Ordered him to kill his own family. Of course Danzo would get off on making a mother and son kill each other "for the good of Konoha" he's almost fucking cartoon villain level of horrible past the point of logic EXCEPT there really are people this awful that have existed. Plenty of them. And they have also justified it as being "for the good of [nation]" like that's the Thing, he's a war hungry nationalist that has decided He Knows Best so he's going to fuck up SO many people's lives, up to and including his own damn citizens!!!! And this bitch thinks he deserves to be kage?!?!?! Fucking Hiruzen letting him run wild like this. He knew Danzo was stealing children and indoctrinating them into a murder cult (where, keep in mind, he purposefully raises kids in pairs so they view each other as family AND THEN ORDERS THEM TO KILL EACH OTHER)(AGAIN!!!! with the family killing, what is his PROBLEM) but Hiruzen just let it fucking happen. Spineless fucking piece of shit. He fucked Naruto up he fucked Orochimaru up he fucked up Royally with Danzo like come ONNNNNNNNNN
Rattling the bars of my cage rn at how awful Danzo is and how he was able to just. DO THIS???? I know the bitch is dead but he's not dead enough. Give me the glock.
#speculation nation#fanny watches naruto#sorry im just losing my mind over this. this changes EVERYTHING with kabuto#and you know i already hated danzo so much. but i just now realized his fucking obsession with making family members kill each other#it's probably for the sake of 'killing their emotions' which he sees as necessary to become a good ninja (*cough* a good tool for the state)#im kicking danzo's head in as we speak. the skull. or whatever was left after he exploded. probably nothing much actually.#it's not good enough I NEED TO KILL HIM SO BADDDDD HE NEEDS TO BE DOUBLE DEAD TRIPLE DEAD#QUADRUPLE OR PERHAPS EVEN INFINITY DEAD.#sets up an infinite time loop of me killing Danzo just to make sure hes super super super super dead#YELLING SCREAMING I HATE DANZO SO MUCHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!#honestly as much as i loved sasuke killing danzo i wish itd happened later.#bc danzo's stinky fingers were in so many pies. he was set up as this horrible mastermind#and then he dies... what... 2/5ths into shippuden?? and what do we have now. cringefail sadboy decided to kill the world for his fantasies?#weird alien goddess?? bc all the world's struggles were clearly bc of an alien instead of any human fault???? or something?????#idk i havent gotten that far yet. but thats what ive gathered from online.#for as wonderful of characters as kishimoto writes he really isnt that great at overall plot.#compelling world. fascinating interactions. cool fights and mechanics.#unfortunately he set up a guy to be a big bad and he died before even halfway through and now we have to watch several hundred episodes#of the most Ninjas One Upping Each Other In Make Believe plotlines ever#like the 'i hit you' 'well i have a shield that blocks hits' 'well i hit you with a sword that cuts through anything'#'well i cast a spell before you hit me that makes me invulnerable to attacks' etc etc COME ON MAN it gets so BORING.#i miss the good old days of sakura fighting sasori. now shes sidelined to the medic tents bc shes a poor vulnerable medic or w/e#idk some parts of this is cool. but so much of it is unsatisfying. like the bijuu battle??? come on.#naruto making friends with kurama was great. the fight with all the jinchuuriki was pretty boring.#like come on this is supposed to be a Big Deal. aaaand what do we have now? another fucking bijuu bomb.#oh wait theyre all casting the bijuu bomb together!!! no worries naruto is making a bijuu bomb of the same exact size#so they counteract and shoot into the stratosphere and theres a Big Boom! wow! so original!#yawn. yawn especially at the madara vs kages fight. at least im enjoying the uchiha bros vs kabuto fight.
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i know its been years but its still so funny to me that kishimoto realized how insanely overpowered kakashi was with six paths chakra and both sharingan so he IMMEDIATELY took it away from him forever
#like dont get me wrong i love my men weak and pathetic and i loved it when he had to stay a month in bed after using the sharingan for 5 min#but i find it hilarious how by the end of the series he was virtually unbeatable#like even naruto and sasuke could not have beaten six paths kakashi with a perfect kamui#cause how the hell do you beat someone you cant even hit???#i get why kishimoto had to take away the ability from him but how funny would that have been#like his first fight was against fuckinkjfhsd zabuza and it lasted what? 10 min? and it put him to bed for a week#his last fight in naruto he literally fights a monstrous blob goddess and wins and isnt even fatigued#he was faster than her and she couldnt even hit him cause hed just phase through her attacks#king shit#naruto#kakashi hatake
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*Poorly written manga has a poorly written ending*
Naruto fandom:
#like what did you expect#Naruto#naruto ending#look I have issues with the ending and Boruto too#but I just don’t understand how people were able to have expectations out of Naruto after the whole kaguya fiasco#like Naruto was never well written enough to begin with to deserve that much of an outrage#Naruto is not a romance manga#why do people care som much about Naruto ships that they are still complaining about it#almost 9 years after the manga ended#and the anti system aspects were never really all that well written to begin with#and it was somewhat obvious kishimoto didn’t really care all that much for it#like how did you not see this being poorly handled in the end coming#when the last 1/3 of the manga#was dedicated towards the war arc#where the main characters (sasuke included) were fighting with the system#against people who criticise it
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I like the concept of Sakura Haruno (a girl who struggles because of being physically weaker but more booksmart than her two nepo baby teammates), but god was her writing just horrible, and Twitter currently trying to rewrite that is like man…we all have eyes.
Absolutely the hate against her was in part because of misogyny, but when the author refuses to do anything really with her outside of a few fights (especially in comparison to her 2 teammates and sensei), it’s like…ofc people are gonna have mixed opinions on her. Her concept is interesting, but what was actually shown was less so, and it shouldn’t be the fans’ responsibility to fic what the author got paid a disgusting amount of money for.
#it makes me laugh because Kishimoto has some insanely misogynistic writing#and I guess if you consider Road to Ninja canon or not#because it’s more interesting if she’s from a civilian family#but her parents are actually part of the fighting force
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brother theres actually no way im beating this dlc
#i was doing fine up until this point but ARE YOU KIDDING ME?#A FUCKING BOSS RUSH OF ALL THE TITANS WITH A LIMITED NUMBER OF RINGS THAT CARRIES OVER BETWEEN FIGHTS?#HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO THIS?????????????#IM USING THE STRATS IM SPAMMING STOMP BUT IM JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO DO THIS.........#like its not just you have to do it getting hit as little as possible. but you have to do it the FASTEST too. cause both of those#factors decrease your rings. jesus christ dude#i feel like if i grind it out i'll eventually be able to do it but oh my god#i got to knight but i got hit like 3 times by its stupid spikes trying to get on it before i even got the emerald#so i went into the fight with 22 rings ToT i obviously knew i wasnt gonna do shit but i just wanted to see how far i could get#dude no rings is BRUTAL. they could've just made it a boss rush with base stats that would've been hard enough#why was this necessary#ppl were NOT lying frontiers got called easy and kishimoto took that PERSONALLY.#serena.txt#sonic frontiers the final horizon spoilers#<- just for gameplay lol
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NOOOOOOOOOOO
Tsunade: Fully believes in Narutos abilities and has full faith he will be a great Hokage, the best, even.
Konoha public: "Hey what if we made Naruto the sixth Hokage :3"
Tsunade: "what the FUCK are you talking about I watched him cry over a picture of Sasuke yesterday he is NOT prepared for that yet make Kakashi do it"
#LET THE BOYS BE BOYS#STOP SHIPPING THEM#LET THEM RECOVER FROM THEIR TRAUMA FIRST PLEASE‼️‼️‼️ THEY ARENT READY FOR LOVE TILL THEY LOVE THEMSELVES‼️‼️#I should have known not everyone would see them as silly brothers#Should have made it like a kitten or something and not Sasuke#Sigh I've reaped what I sewed#Sometimes I gen forget that like 50% of the fandom ships sns...#This must be what the non NaruMitsu shippers feel in the Ace attorney fandom...#Am I... my own worst enemy...?#Okay but like tbf Edgeworth and Phoenix are literally just like that#Sasuke and Naruto are just a little co-dependant and a lot a lot obsessive#See I want to fist fight the sns shippers but its so hard bc I like get it. like ik that I personally wud go that far for a friend but like#Like i can't even go “Hey ur interpreting that wrong” bc like who am I do judge how ppl interpret things that i didn't write#Like Ik that that's not how Kishimoto meant it but I hate beating on ppls ships bc like ship who you want when u want just bc like#I don't personally don't like it doesn't mean anyone should stop for me like who the hell even am I??#BUT I DID WRITE THIS POST AND I SAY ITS NOT SNS#But hey just for fun let's say it's SuiSasu#Hmmmmm and maybe it's Naruto x Toneri#Maybe it's Tobirama x Izuna??#We'll never know#BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT ITS NOT SNS#Sigh i can't wait till I get over my grudge on sns#Life will be so much happier#Idek why It makes me so angry#God's pls hear my plea and let me make peace with this ship#Like no other naruto ship makes me mad except for this one#I'm even okay with SasuHina and like ShiSaku#Like I don't like them but I'm at peace#WHY am I not at peace with the most popular ship in the fandom this is so unfair#somebody undo this curse on me pleaseeeee
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》 ʀᴏᴀᴅ ᴛᴏ ɴɪɴᴊᴀ & ᴄᴀɴᴏɴ ɢᴀᴀʀᴀ: ᴄʀᴏꜱꜱᴏᴠᴇʀ 《
Hey Guys! 🩵
Today I got this Picture and it's in my Opinion one of the most beautiful and Canon-looking Comissions I ever got. Since I got it I didn't get tired of looking at it. its.sunjyo really is a Genius in Drawing Gaara - and now, two Gaara's in one Picture! That's really like a Dream came true. 👀
The Difference between them couldn't be bigger. In Appearance they are kinda looking alike, but their Personalitys are ... Well it's as the Name says, two completely different Worlds where different Things happened.
Road to Ninja Gaara is still a Jinchuuriki, fighting with Shukaku's Powers. He is a rebell and m*rdered way more people and did that way longer than his Canon Self. He is arrogant, selfish and cold-hearted. He shows no Mercy in Battles and he doesn't have a Problem with k&lling people, even for just looking at him a second too long. At least he was like that before he met Road to Ninja Raziela. Things started to change from then on, but very slowly. But as bad as he always was, he is and was always a loyal person.
Canon Gaara isn't a Jinchuuriki anymore since he was 15 years old. He was like RTN Gaara is before his Fight with Uzumaki Naruto. Nowdays he always wants to find a polite and peaceful Way to solve Things. He is quiet, reserved and introverted - but in a loving way. Words may be rare, but he thinks carefully about everything he says and anything has depth and he means it. He is interested in Friendships and Social Interactions, and found true love, in my Oc Raziela. And he is absolutely a loyal person and passionate about his Interests.
These two really couldn't be more different and I simply love what I created with Road to Ninja. 🩵
➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️➖️
Art (c) its.sunjyo on Instagram
Gaara's RTN Design (c) @xkobayashisoulx
Sabaku No Gaara (c) Masashi Kishimoto
Naruto & Boruto (c) Masashi Kishimoto and Mikio Ikemoto
This Picture was a Comission for me from its.sunjyo on Instagram. I am NOT the Artist of this Artwork. I am a Comission Collector. I have the Artists written permission to upload this drawing to my Social Media. ⚠️
Gaara's RTN Design and Story belongs to me. ⚠️
Without my written permission you have no right to recolor/repost/trace/edit/use this in any way, written or drawn. ⚠️
#gaara#gaara of the sand#gaara of the desert#sabaku no gaara#kazekage#gaara of the sand waterfall#jinchuuriki#Shukaku#Bijuu#One Tail#godaime kazekage#Sabaku No#sunagakure village#suna#sand#road to ninja gaara#road to ninja#alternate universe#naruto the last#naruto#Canon Gaara#RTN Gaara#Anime#Manga#Fanart#Comission#naruto fanart
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I genuinely think any ship within the og Team 7 students would make sense. There're 0 reasons to fight about it, they're all just as justified.
Naruto was obsessed for yeeeeeaaaars with his teammates. He looked at them like they hung the moon and the stars in the sky for him. Sasuke and Sakura were the only boy and girl on Earth, lol.
Sasuke and Sakura were used to being cruel to put some distance between them and the world. Defense mechanism or not, Naruto was maybe the only person in the entire world that would never eat that up. He knew feeling lonely, he knew being hurt, he knew to feel useless... Fuck that, for him, there would never be as someone as awesome as his teammates.
His most important promise in life was to save Sasuke, for both his, Sakura's and his own sake.
In return, Sasuke and Sakura would never shut up about him either. His their saviour, their hero, their sun and the boy fills their lives with joy.
That's why any ship with him works!
For Sakura, it's that there was textual romantic tension with both of them for the entire series. Their chemistry and backstory were intentionally written. That Kishimoto decided on the canon ships in the end, okay, but any of them could have worked. If you can't feel the love between them, blame the writing and not the characters, 'cause it was clear that Kishimoto wanted people to think of them as a love triangle for some time.
Since the genin days, she was their it girl. No one touches Sakura, no one hurts Sakura, blah blah blah. In exchange, even when she wasn't strong enough, she'd use herself as a shield for them. It makes no sense, but she'd jump between any attack and them at any moment. She would run to them when they have lost their mind, not even scared of them as much as she was scared for them.
She defended both of them when other people criticized them. She also lost faith and tried to manipulate them or kill them at some point out of pure desperation of keeping one of them alive. She was the one left behind time and time again, they are her whole reason to be who she is and to be a medic nin. All she ever wanted was to walk alongside them, not behind them.
Again, it works.
With Sasuke is so easy.
Naruto and Sakura were obsessed with him to the point of following him to the literal almost end of the world. The definition of hatred being actually love, because they'd be at each other's throats about it. Their goal in life? Sasuke. The person they cried about at night? Sasuke. What would they wish upon a star? For Sasuke to come back.
And Sasuke couldn't stop thinking about them. In his mind, they were always there. They'd follow him, almost haunt him. They were annoying and rude and ignorant, they were stupid, weak even, he loved them so much that he convinced himself he needed to kill them, cut their bonds.
They harbor endless love for him and with time, he came to understand that's just how they were and accept it.
The loyal 12 years old that would rather take the attacks himself than let his teammates be in any type of danger, did a full cycle and came to be the devoted man that vowed to atone for his mistakes and return to them one day.
If they gave themselves freely to him and almost without a reason, Sasuke gave himself back with all the reasons in the world.
Do I even have to explain why narusasusaku works too or—????
Anyway.
I could never fight over what's the better ship when I know they are all insane about each other.
#narusaku#sasusaku#sasunaru#not a serious thing tbh I just wanted to put somewhere my opinion about these ships#naruto#naruto uzumaki#sakura haruno#sasuke uchiha#og team 7#team 7#naruto shippuden#naruto classic#narusasusaku
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Thank you for responding! I know it was all over and incredibly long and I wouldn’t blame you for just saying “I agree” haha! Haven’t refreshed my dormant knowledge of Naruto in a bit so some of those points could be speculative and incorrect, my bad if that is the case. To put it bluntly: it reads gay because it is gay!
You brought up something I wanted to touch on that I glossed over. I definitely agree that there is in-universe misogyny and passive or undermined development for Kishimoto’s women. Most serve of the benefit or are connected to more powerful men in some degree so a woman’s more focused or impactful moments will always be eclipsed. And yeah, a few of his female characters are used almost for the sole purpose of dying to enforce reasoning for the future actions of men (Rin—> Obito, Kushina—> Naruto to some extent because of the dead mother trope; even if it’s not purely motivational on Naruto’s end, unlike Obito’s, the sentiment of women dying to further impact the plot still stands). Hell, I’d even forgotten the Tsunade and Konan information you just provided! So there is appropriate criticism of misogyny especially in the tropes women fill or their subservient purpose to the plot to uplift a man. It would be more beneficial to acknowledge other aspects of misogynistic details in Naruto as a whole instead of only focusing on how Sakura and Hinata are written because they aren’t the only ones affected by these writing choices. And to also understand that some characters are written with the intention of having certain unfavorable characteristics.
For sure, Hinata and Sakura could’ve been handled better; they could have had more motive or influences outside of Naruto and Sasuke; they could have had more moments that weren’t overshadowed by their impulsive, selfish decision making and outright refusal to understand or follow up on crucial information, but unfortunately they don’t and those were plenty in-character aspects to both of them. I guess the cognitive dissonance comes around when fans go the lengths of defending their characters portrayals while also saying they’re poorly written and declaring how misogynistic Kishimoto is. But even so, people are given valid reasons to dislike them that can’t be removed by baseless accusations of calling haters misogynists.
And I think the serious issue (besides misogyny and sexism) you’re referring to in the last paragraph was “inc*st”? Unless I just completely inferred something else entirely but final point because yeah, actually! The fandom really needs to stop trivializing an actual form of abuse with real victims as a “gotcha!” against a fictional ship. These reincarnated “brothers” don’t even canonically view their relationship as such, aren’t blood related, and that’s just not how reincarnation is meant to be understood here because it was the chakra, from my understanding; however, even if it were the soul, it’s well understood that relationships manifest differently in other lives so the argument is null. Like this fear mongering hasn’t dissuaded anyone from shipping SNS who has active reading comprehension. Anywho! getting off my soapbox haha
Hi Bella! This isn’t an ask I just felt like ranting a bit (a lot) because I’ve got a lot of Naruto feelings lately! No analysis just speaking from the heart so some of this might be up for interpretation lol but I’m mostly beating a dead horse here because what more can really be said?
The “so misogynistic it’s gay” phrase everyone likes to parrot is a complete disservice to Kishimoto as an author because how do you write Naruto and Sasuke’s dynamic accidentally when it’s essentially the driving force of the story? You don’t. And I don’t think he’s this raging misogynist people paint him as because he doesn’t really treat the other women with as much disrespect compared to S or H. He’s probably as misogynistic as the average male author or person out of willful ignorance but writing unlikeable and two-dimensional women, I would say, does not a misogynist make because not all of the women here are written with the level of contempt, sexism and mockery as these two. For examples: Temari was also strong, had a brash and unsavory personality and was labeled “scary” by Shikamaru but was a protective older sister and not unlikeable to readers. Ino, who also began as a “girl in love”, fell out of her crush with Sasuke and gained some perspective on her ambitions and affirmations after Asuma died (and she wasn’t the one to drop her friendship over a “rivalry” for a boy that didn’t return either of their feelings… I get it, I was once a kid too but Sakura still being just as childish in adulthood in regards to Gaiden? What a joke, anyways). Tsunade, Konan, and Kushina and all of their individual strengths do not revolve around the acknowledgement of men and their appeals. Their respective love’s, while tragic affairs, were openly reciprocated by their love interests and each aspect of their story was treated with some level of care. So at this point, Kishimoto simply didn’t feel like giving the same romantic grace to NH and SS because SNS was the entire point! of the manga!
The fact that the words Sakura and Hinata share of their shallow infatuations in their confessions are ignored or outright rejected (more than once mind you) actually ring true when they are frequently paralleled in text with how Naruto and Sasuke feel towards each other should be all you need to understand that! Because their devotion to another is believable! Their evolving, MUTUAL, bond and attempts at trying to understand each other throughout the course of 698 chapters is it! That’s the romance! It’s romantic as hell trying to grasp the deepest parts of someone, connecting with them in a way no one else is able to because of a shared experience through different circumstances and defending them when all others have turned their backs; protecting them, dying for them, “bearing the burden of their hatred” and proposing a romantic double-suicide where hopefully in the new world they are absolved of societies failures against their current selves and the ties still bind them (because they’re soulmates); not being able to cut a single person down because they’re your “one and only (friend)” and without them you’d finally be alone but you’ve seen and know what’s in each other’s hearts and you know they’ll never leave you and they’ll stand by you even at the cost of their life; having complimentary sun and moon symbols on the hands of the arms they both respectively lose together in a battle concluded by both of them communicating in depth how they view their relationship outside of simple labels. This is the single most important relationship in the manga. It’s impossible to ignore but OH do people try and draw incorrect conclusions about their connection and love for the other (that’s an entirely different rant).
And even if Kishimoto cared enough to spare a crumb of reciprocation from either male party towards their future “love interests/spouses” or even any sense of S or H actually understanding Naruto and Sasuke beyond attraction and personal convictions, that wouldn’t change; and ultimately kishimoto didn’t because he didn’t care to and that’s obviously not the story he was telling. Naruto as a manga revolves around the natural progression of SNS’ individual motives and aspirations laced with their mutual care and interest for the other. Their interpersonal connections with others mirror and influence their love and understanding of each other.
I think it’s a disservice to say Kishimoto can’t write romance simply because he didn’t develop those two “relationships”; like Minakushi is the staple blatant romance of Naruto (besides SNS) and both SS and NH fans constantly want parellel their bond, mimic tropes, or make banal and superficial comparisons of their favs to Kushina (and Mikoto too which screams insecurity here like please free them from the mediocrity, I beg) because they know it’s the epitome of love in regards to Naruto. But the closest comparison to Minakushi, trope wise, in my opinion, is literally SNS! And if either SS or NH fans had a single canon moment (written by Kishimoto) rivaling anything SNS have together they would be screaming romance at the top of their lungs but instead they cry “brothers/friends” to some of the most romantic text I’ve ever read whilst all they’re given by Kishimoto is eye sex(?) + (brotherly) forehead poke of rejection (“better than a kiss”; my ass) and “big strong hands” over my slave cousin’s corpse + silly contrived movie with imagery Naruto and Sasuke had first and both a plethora of cherry-picked panels taken out of context. It’s just embarrassing!
This comes from a place of neutrality for both S and H as characters tbh because I acknowledge they weren’t meant to be anything more than what we got. I just don’t like their fan bases praising fodder caricatures or their reductive ships because they “got the guy in the end” in extremely dysfunctional “canon” (lavender) marriages. If they would just let them be girl failures and pathetic in peace and regard them properly I wouldn’t mind. However, the constant character revisionism is annoying because I know I’m not missing some grand aspect to either woman. And they’re not “mothering” at all lol let’s be serious! They’re two cheeks of the same spoiled ass unfortunately and that’s just how they’re written— you’re not gaining feminism points for appreciating women written through a sexist lens like I’d argue that’s more misogynistic then just outright disliking them. Sorry! Kishimoto is an author, and like all author’s, he writes with intention. He wrote what he wanted to, how he wanted to and focused on what was important which was SNS. Laughably undeveloped or plain unlikeable characters be damned, Sasuke and Naruto were the main act and not the side show.
There are plenty of genre’s to choose from for interesting and developed female characters that aren’t contributing to male (and female, mind you) fantasies but unfortunately Shounen really isn’t one of them because there’s only isolated cases of actual decent representation across the board. But in regards to Kishimoto’s work, S and H got the butt end of the intentionally-poorly-written-stick compared to the other women and there’s no amount of personal head-canons no one legitimately subscribes to or cries of “you’re misinterpreting her character” that are changing that. My mind, and many other’s, has been made up because we see them for what they are and how they’re actually written.
Alrighty! Convoluted, possibly contradictory and very opinionated rant over. If you read this, you’re a real one LOL I hope all is well!!
i don’t think i have much to add, especially since you put it so well. i talked about the “so misogynistic that it’s gay” plenty of times before, and how nonsense and homophobic that take is, how kishimoto foreshadowing a romantic double suicide has anything to do with sakura being badly written? and that’s just one small example. people act like just because naruto and sakura are on the same team as sasuke, they must have the same importance to him, they expected both naruto and sakura to have the same influence over sasuke, but that’s not what’s written from the beginning, i believe the logic is “naruto and sasuke have a deeper relationship than sasuke and sakura, who has no room for development, that’s why they look gay (on accident)” but stopping at it is shallow, it’s not solely about their relationship being meaningful, while ss (or nh) isn’t, it’s about why it’s meaningful, and more importantly, only being meaningful isn’t enough either to be gay, it’s about why is it gay? why it feels gay? why so many people read it and think “that seems romantic”? naruto is a story that establishes some actions as romantic and then shows naruto and sasuke act exactly how it was established towards each other. did i mention anything about how lacking sakura and hinata are to talk about the nature of their relationship? no, because homosexuality is defined by who you’re attracted to, men are gay because they love other men, women are lesbian because they love other women, and it’s homophobic to say “actually, women are lesbians because they don’t love men”, it’s the same logic of telling a lesbian she just hasn’t found the right man yet. “naruto and sasuke love each other” and “naruto and sasuke don’t love hinata and sakura” are two facts that coexist and don’t have influence over one another.
i did mention that people say sakura has no room for development, but i disagree, sakura does have room for it, she has opportunities to be better, but she isn’t, it’s a deliberate choice from kishimoto, he simply doesn’t want sakura to be in the same position as naruto, he doesn’t want her to be important to sasuke, but giving naruto development while sakura remains inconsiderate (which is one of the reasons why sasuke dislikes her) isn’t inherently misogynistic. and even if he did want her (and hinata) to be better, that wouldn’t change how sasuke feels towards naruto and vice versa. and yes, i do agree with you that kishimoto writes sakura’s and hinata’s characters with mockery, as much as he writes ss and nh, but i believe he does that to leave no room for doubts, and yet… 🤦🏻♀️ for real, if people are already in deep denial of narusasu with naruto and sasuke being written that way towards each other while ss and nh suck, imagine if their relationship was written the same way but they were at least friendlier towards sakura and hinata (especially in ss’ case here), no amount of gay subtext would be enough to stop the homophobia and heteronormativity, the denial would be worse. but “sns shippers” really think they are allies when they help with this logic, that gayness is accidental and ss/nh only suck because sakura and hinata are women.
and this isn’t me saying there isn’t misogyny in naruto. misogyny in naruto is rin dying for male angst, is konan outdoing obito and not only dying, but being completely forgotten, almost erased from the story, is tsunade showing a fear of blood during her battle against orochimaru just so it weakens her in that moment and that is never mentioned again, is kushina wanting to be hokage and dropping that for no reason so minato could be, is even hinata being written solely for male wanking, but i can’t agree that naruto and sasuke not loving sakura and hinata is it.
5th and 6th paragraphs are very on point as well, emphasising them here because i couldn’t agree more. the double standards people have in relation to narusasu vs ss/nh is ridiculous and plain homophobia and, contrary to sakura/hinata stans try to say to scare people off by using serious issues, disliking sakura and hinata is not anti feminist or whatever, praising badly written female characters will only contribute to more of this kind of writing, so no thank you. i think i’m just repeating my and yourself at this point, but i feel bad to read a rant as big as this and only reply “i agree with everything!” hah.
#edit: yes there is misogyny but women with unlikeable traits or character flaws isn’t it#and you’ll be hard pressed to find any media without sexism especially in Shounen#I am not a kishimoto dick rider! he’s not above criticism I just think we’re focusing on the wrong thing here#entertain Kishimoto’s sexism by shipping underdeveloped het pairings with trad wife ideals for /feminism/ or ship sns like god intended?#decisions decisions#I was irritated tbh so I think some of my points were harsh but I also don’t care bc I’m a proud hater#I think I can acknowledge they deserved better? but I also don’t care about how they’re written enough to defend them y’know?#there’s no substance and they’re not really enjoyable characters with what is there#and I think people choose to like them to fight the misogyny allegations but couldn’t name a single thing about them not related to a man#or fanon misinterpretation like what’s even the point? there are better female characters out there let’s explore our options
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god i hate this so fucking much. shes a fucking hyuga. wouldnt it be wise to have her since the enemy is a worshipper of the otsutsuki? no bc she has to be a housewife. and wtf does "for my sake" even mean why would she stay for shikamarus sake? i hate this so much
#i know everyone including kishimoto forgot about the hyuga#but you know what would have been good writing? having kara revere the hyuga and the uchiha#the fights would have been a lot kore interesting too#whatever. its not like i care#boruto lb#boruto#anyway hinata is still completely useless nothing new here
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Kishi shows us that everyone in the Narutoverse somehow understands the feelings between Naruto and Sasuke, that the two of them are somehow connected, and that the two have some influence on each other and If something happens to one of them, the other will react in an extreme way. Kishi used his other characters to point this out and make us pay more attention to Naruto & Sasuke.
A scene where Sakura and the others are doubting of Naruto and Sasuke's feelings for each other is something Kishi can't do directly. Otherwise, it would cause a lot of trouble, and it would confirm that there really is something going on between the two. readers are already confused and complaining about it without even those scene. But at least some readers finally see the gay and understand the narrative.
1. HAKU
Sasuke exposed his weakness (Naruto) in front of a enemy. Observing every move to avoid serious injury and forced to awaken his Sharingan to protect Naruto, of course Haku was watching him and absolutely found his weakness and used it against him. Haku knows if Naruto is used the fight will be over because Sasuke would jump in front of Naruto to save him.
2. OROCHIMARU
• Orochimaru recognizes the impact Naruto has on Sasuke's says a lot! He wanted to separate them immediately....if Sasuke ran away from his goal of becoming strong and risked his life for 'Naruto'....it would have hindered his plan.
• Also, when Orochimaru deliberately emphasized, “MySasuke-kun”… With this comment, Naruto's anger finally reached its peak and got insane to the point of sprouting 4 tails.
Some Native speakers reactions to Naruto's “ Don't say Sasuke's name in front of me like he's yours”
1. “You snap(get angry) there? Well, How should I say it?...Isn't that a little off? ”
2. “It was around the Sai arc that people started calling Naruto homosexual”
3. “ I think it would be much better without this -> "In front of me" ”
4. “He had been angry for a long time, but I got the impression that he lost his temper over this comment ”
5. “This line from Naruto is incomprehensible and scary, but I don't think it would be so strange if Itachi (or even Fugaku) said something similar and got angry at Orochimaru”
6. “Regardless of whether Naruto's anger and how he expressed it were justified or not, if you consider that Naruto is gay and in love with Sasuke, then it's an understandable emotion”
7.“ Even if the subject is a love interest, I'm still saying it's a strange line.”
@reply: “I don't agree with it, but I think there are ex-boyfriends who are so possessive in real life too.”
8. “That's weird for a shounen manga protagonist”
9. “Does that mean Kishimoto-sama knowingly making Naruto sick? Or was it that he wanted to emphasize, both inside and outside the work, that Sasuke is special to Naruto and that it is difficult for others to understand or interfere in their relationship?”
The word used by the said person was 病ませていた。 Its dictionary form is 「病む (やむ)」 which means "to suffer from some disease/ illness/sickness". 「病ま」 is the imperfect form and 「せる」 is a causative auxiliary verb. So 「病ませる」 means "to make someone sick". 「病ませた」 is its past form. 「病ませてい た」 is its past progressive form.
10. “The Nine Tails' tail is gross, the lines are terrible, he has too many tantrums, he says Sasuke too much, etc.”
11. “If he was gay, would that explain it...? Doesn't that mean he has romantic feelings for Sasuke after all?”
12. “Even though you took the trouble to change the lines between the magazine and the book, you didn't delete "in front of me," Kishimoto-sama, You're particular about that”
[when publishing a book, changes may be made to the version published in the magazine (Weekly Shōnen Jump).]
@reply: “The fact that he sometimes fix things and sometimes doesn't it shows that Kishimoto-sama is aware of his abnormality is quietly frightening”
13.“At first glance, he's a bright, friendly Jump protagonist, but as soon as Sasuke gets involved, things get weird. That's what makes him unique and interesting.”
• Sensing Naruto's chakra, Sasuke quickly ordered to lead the way. As usual Orochimaru does not failed to notice the sudden mood changes in Sasuke.
• Sasuke was watching Naruto when Obito taunting and provoking him and he was crying when Obito sucked everyones's chakra. And of course Orochimaru noticed that Sasuke seems to be in a bad mood.
3. PAKKUN
Pakkun emphasizes Sasuke's attempt to protect Naruto despite in his bad condition.
4. KABUTO
5. KAKASHI
It's conon Sasuke is Naruto's Driving force and he's the one making Naruto stronger and stronger...
This panel shows that even other people, like Kakashi, can see that Naruto is really working so hard for Sasuke. Because Naruto, personally, believes in Sasuke and wants to save him.
6. ITACHI
When Itachi visited the village to kidnap Naruto after Hiruzen's death...Sasuke came between them. And Itachi noticed the way Naruto was so furious to draw Kyuubi chakra to protect Sasuke. Maybe that's why he came to this conclusion and asked Naruto “can you choose between Sasuke and Konoha? ”
7. SAI, PAIN & RAIKAGE
• Sai questioning “Why does that naruto still care/concerned about sasuke or why does he feel strongly about Sasuke despite he betrayed and hurted him?”
• Sasuke stated in their first fight that Naruto would never be able to understand him because he never had anyone in the first place no family no siblings, he was always alone. Now, Pain fixed that problem by nuked the village and pretty much murdered everyone. After the fight, Naruto recollects what Sasuke said in Vote 1 and what pain told him. Naruto realizes that he was wrong to think he knew what Sasuke was going through without having experienced something similar to what Sasuke did. After the death of jiraiya he understand a bit about wanting to avenge your important ones' death and how much it devour you. He now realized that it wasn't realistic that he thought he could get through to Sasuke without understanding his feelings and pain. That's why he says he understands Sasuke in this arc.
• this not considered friendship in the Shinobi world
(he's begging on his knees to spare sasuke's life but he's threatening cloud its so funny)
8. TOBIRAMA
In the Land of Waves arc, when they were only 12 years old, they could team up together without any direct communication. We know that the last time they fought together was 4 years ago, even then they could team up together without any direct communication.
9. KURAMA
• Sasuke couldn't even handle Naruto losing his arms despite he himself had lost one. How would he react when he sees Naruto dead in front of his eyes???? Those expression and his lines before proves that Sasuke may have had his mind set on killing Naruto. But the reality is that if that happens, his heart could not handle it. Kishi used Kurama to foreshadow this.
• Naruto gives kurama an extreme Glare when kurama lectures him about how he's never been able to do anything for Sasuke. And later in the war arc Naruto flashbacked about Sasuke and showed everyone that he regrets not reaching out to Sasuke back then when they were kids, even though he wanted to reach out to him.
• It's such an unnecessary scene, but Kishi brings up the kiss again lol. As usual, Naruto reacted very dramatically.
He had the same reaction when he accidentally kissed Sasuke in chapter 3, after which he quickly went to Sakura to verify his feelings and it didn't take him long to realize that he loves Sasuke. Kishi's deliberate thoughts and plans in that chapter screams “Naruto might be a Gay boy who wants to deny it really hard ”
Otherwise, Kishimoto literally didn't have to do any of this!!
10. EBISU
It's from the Pain arc, where Ebisu Sensei remembers Naruto's growth. From everyone calling him a 狐のガキ = kitsune no gaki = fox brat Or a "Kyuubi kid" to actually calling him by his real name “Naruto”.
[ガキ: in a rough way to say, which has negative nuance. This word comes from Buddhism monsters "餓鬼(がき)= gaki" born in the hell, which devour foods. There are people who call their children "gaki," but I don't think they mean it in a bad way. However, as a listener, it leaves a bad impression. The word "gaki" can also be used in a negative sense to describe a childish or immature person. ]
The memories begin with the people of Konoha hating him, and later the people of Konoha praise Naruto for stopping Gaara from attacking Konoha, and for bringing Tsunade in as the 5th Hokage.
When Jiraiya died the villagers says, “Is Naruto okay? He will not lose his heart, he will keep looking forward". Before that this panel appears when it comes to Sasuke. Even the people of Konoha felt that Naruto would be depressed if Sasuke wasn't in Konoha with Naruto.
The word used here is 落ちこんで which means to be depressed; to feel down; to feel sad; to be in low spirits.
落ちこんで is the conjunctive form of 落ち込む and the particle で is added to express the state in which the action of ``depression'' is in progress.
e. g:
- 彼は失恋して、しばらく落ちこんでい た。
- kare wa shitsuren shite , shibaraku ochikondeita .
-He was heartbroken and depressed for a while.
- 仕事のストレスで、彼は毎日落ちこんで過ごしている。 - shigoto no sutoresu de , kare wa mainichi ochikonde sugoshiteiru.
-He feels depressed every day due to the stress of work.
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