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joltai-showa · 24 days ago

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fic notes, "Dealing with the Devil" edition

okay, so, as promised, here's a "fun things you might have missed" Joltai Showa edition, and today we'll be talking about "Dealing with the Devil" because I think this one in particular doesn't extrapolate on a lot of things as the original ending got kind of cut + there's like twenty million sprikles of headcanons regarding this AU that (possibly?) might not make sense to the reader

- the name of the fic: if it wasn't obvious, it's a pun on "dealing with someone" and "making a deal with the devil" (with Madara being this canonically eerie and menacing figure in the story this is pretty much what happens in the fic). generally I make the titles for my fics (and chapters wink wink BSSM) either as I am finishing the work or literally as I am staring down at ao3's posting form lmao. I'd say the only ones that don't follow this pattern would be the title of "From Queen to a Pawn" (I was sitting in a coffee shop seething from everything about my thesis and then I had the sudden inspiration for the title) and its chapter 3 (I was planning on naming that one "Hell" as far as when I was writing chapter 4 of LTFG)

- the cut ending: originally I intended for the fic to actually end events that happen after "Deidara's deal", however I was already like 2 weeks past the deadline, this bad boy already had like 15k words in it + I was kind of getting sick of it tbh, so in the end I decided on finishing it somewhere around the peak of absurdity which would be the deal. if you're curious what I originally had in mind, here it is: there was actually another reason for Madara's neighbors to move away and that's grandpa watching pretty spicy yaoi tapes at full volume before sleep (he's getting closer to 80, so he forgets how to turn on the headphones + he doesn't really care for anyone's comfort other than his own cuz he's a bitch like that). after making the deal grandpa is much more friendly to his grandson and his fiance, so they have a pretty chill dinner with the Zetsus and then they stay the night in the guest room (Obito does feel bad for not coming back for years, so pretty quickly agrees after grandpa offers). they do unfortunately discover that bad habit of Madara's. Obito is traumatized, Deidara almost dies after choking on air from laughing too much. as I've said like 3 times before, this fic is just a glorified shitpost lmao

- the Uchiha family tree: the fact that the single most broken, beloved by Kishimoto and literally the center of all bullshit happening in the world clan has NO FUCKING PROPER structure is so mindblowing to me. it was kind of annoying back when I first read the manga, but after spending almost 5 years in Jojo fandom (where we have 6 parts about the story of one gigantic disfunctional family spanning literally 150 years and where we KNOW how every single one of them is related to each other) it feels outright insulting and kinda drives me mad. like, okay, thanks for telling me that Sasuke and Itachi are brothers, their parents are Fugaku and Mikoto, but what the fuck about the others? Who the fuck is Shisui? At what point of the bloodline Madara had kids before fucking off into the sunset to find a big orange puppy to run Konoha over with? Did Izuna get any bitches before Tobirama sent him back to the Uchiha ancestors? Is Obito some sort of fucking tulpa from Kakashi's mind? Not a single goddamn person from his own clan ever acknowledges his existence in the story except from the ressurected guy who stole him after Kannabi and gave him the task of playing himself for the following sixteen years, at this point I'll believe in anything, because Kishimoto somehow manages to fuck up even his own favorite clan's writing in favor of yanking it for the Sharingan for another 100 pages

- ahem, rant over. anyway, for this fic I kind of crammed the bloodline to a reasonable size, with Madara being the starting point, him being the father to Fugaku and Obito's father, Obito being his eldest grandchild and Sasuke and Itachi being sons to Fugaku as they are in canon. if you're reading my BSSM AU, nope, this is not the structure of the Uchiha family that I have in mind

- it was never properly mentioned in the fic, but Madara's and "grandma"s marriage was arranged. grandma passed away a long time ago, so much so that out of grandkids only Obito actually remembers her. in any case, Madara never really cared for her, his focus was more on his political career and his one true rival

- Deidara's family structure: now if you are reading my BSSM AU, congrats, because this fic has pretty much the same family structure that I imagine for Akatsuki Girldara, meaning her own parents passed away a long time ago and she was taken in by Kurotsuchi's parents, so they were raised together. Here both of them see each other as sisters, which is... well... a bit different from what is going on in BSSM AU. in any case, Onoki remains the annoying bitch in her life in any universe, but here he's just her kind of grandfather

- did I mention how absolutely hilarious to me Madara being so obviously evil in those flashbacks of Obito's? both of them are pretty funny in retrospect, with one of them straight up telling Obito that "😈oh😈don't😈worry😈you'll😈be😈back😈to😈repay😈for😈my😈kindness😈soon😈enough😈" and Obito just going "yeah, yeah, grandpa, whatever". also, Obito, darling, why the fuck are you talking about the most important people in your life to THESE ABSOLUTE FUCKING STRANGERS??? HAS NO ONE TOLD YOU THE PHRASE "STRANGER DANGER"??? ALSO DID YOU NEVER OPEN A HISTORY BOOK IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE??? YOU MEET THE GHOST OF UCHIHA AND DON'T REMEMBER THAT TINY LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT HOW MADARA TRIED TO DESTROY THE VILLAGE YOU LOVE SEVERAL TIMES AND IS AS MUCH OF THE ENEMY TO KONOHA AS THOSE GUYS THAT CRASHED THOSE BOULDERS ON TOP OF YOU. I swear to god kid Obito is the type of person to get asked by Zetsus "So where does Rin live? What days does she work at the hospital? Can you tell us where she likes to hang out alone? How often do your sensei and Bakakashi leave the village? Is Rin good in hand-to-hand combat?" and answer them all honestly, without ever suspecting anything. Seriously, Madara and Zetsu could be doing "We are Number One" song from the Lazytown and Obito would be clapping along, thinking about how talanted everyone here is.

- the Deidara heel thing: because this is a normal modern day AU where neither of them have to fight for their lives, Deidara does and loves typically girl things, like dresses, heels, etc etc which would be completely inconveniet for a shinobi. and she's pretty, so she slays in both of these things. and another funny story but after I posting this fic I ordered some new boots for autumn and, well, at the time when looking at the photos I didn't think that the heels were that high. only when I got the boots I realized that 8.5 cm is, in fact, a fucking lot. so now I guess now I am cosplaying as Deidara from this fic

- Obito still has the scars in this AU. presumably from some similar circumstances from "To End with a Bang", but I'll write more about it when I'll be talking about it. I guess this one is more about his relationship with the family that, at the end of the day, supported him through it

- the circumstances of Obito and Deidara meeting and deciding to marry in this AU: it's kind of sprinkled throught the fic, but anyway, here's what I had in mind: they still have the same age gap as they do in canon, Deidara was a university student doing an art degree, Obito was sent by Hokage to serve as Konoha's high comissioner (the dictionary says that it's supposed to be a synonim to "ambassador" and that sounds cooler, so I used it). Obito went to some official event organized by Tsuchikage (which Deidara, unfortunately, had to attend) and proceeded to try to mingle with the local important guys in expensive suits, but in the process ended up saying something so stupid about Iwagakure's art that Deidara couldn't hold herself back and went off to pretty much tell Obito off for his idiocy. in the end they ended up agreeing on meeting on the weekdays in Iwa's various museums where she can fix this dumbass's ideas regarding art in Land of Earth. and, well, after a while they kind of started crushing on each other. Obito assumed that to be one-sided and Deidara liking playing her role of cultural senpai, so he was trying to hide it, while Deidara wanted to bash his head against the wall because he was taking so long. in the end they were sitting in their favorite cafe in one of the museums, Obito was eating his chocolate cake, Deidara was drinking her coffee, finally Deidara's patience ran out and she grabbed him and kissed him there and then. Obito kind of realized that what they had was, in fact, mutual, so they started secretly dating, until the time came for him to return to Konoha, and at this point both of them didn't want to fall apart, so a few days later Obito proposed. Deidara's family at the time had no idea about any of this (I guess Kurotsuchi might have been suspecting something about her sis having a boyfriend, but not who exactly the guy is), so... yeah... a big shitstorm ensued, because not only all of the sudden Deidara had a boyfriend, said boyfriend was now her fiance, a lot older than her and both of them were planning on leaving the country as soon as possible. in the end things did get figured out, so the two of them leaving for Konoha was pretty uneventful

- Deidara continues to have insane beef with all Uchihas imaginable. I mean, it's kind of insane in retrospect that this one random guy managed to throw hands with all remaining Uchihas in his short 19 year old lifespan, especially considering he isn't the main character and officially there's only two Uchihas remain, but somehow Deidara had managed to blow up the third secret one a few times. he's got some sort of Uchiha curse of his own that needs to be studied. anyway, her relationship with Obito started off with her arguing with him, her beef with Madara is literally the plot of this fic, Sasuke was acting like a little spoiled shit and pissed her off during that one meeting she had with Fugaku's family, Itachi was pretty cordial with her, but she took it as him thinking he's better than her, Mikoto is something of a similar case, but she got hate for worrying about things between Obito and his unexpected fiance because really half of the time her nephew has no idea what he is doing, and Fugaku pisses her off for being overly controlling just like Onoki was

- similarly to canon, Onoki and Madara actually met in here, but as representatives of different countries, not whatever the fuck they were at the time of that flashback that couldn't have happened if Kishimoto actually kept track of the dates he had in the manga

- currently Deidara and Obito are living at Obito's old place in Konoha. because it wasn't really suited for two people + Obito didn't want Deidara to worry about having to work after moving like that because he earns more than enough + this is her first time in Konoha, so he wants her to have fun and find things that she loves about her pretty much new home, so in the end they agreed that Obito works, while Deidara explores Konoha, redesigns their apartment and figures out the little details of the wedding. on weekends they do this together. or sometimes just laze about if the work was too much for Obito and he's pretty much falling back asleep as soon as he opens his eyes in the morning.

- Deidara knows how to make a lot of things with her own hands, so she's decided that most of the really important things for the wedding she'll make herself, in particular their kimonos. Obito was absolutely elated

- I couldn't be bothered to look up on what hand people in Japan wear the wedding/engagement rings or if they wear it at all, so in the end I just imagined the two of them wearing them on the same hand that they wear their Akatsuki rings - right for Deidara, left for Obito

- Uchiha family here doesn't really have an insignia like Uchiha clan in canon does, but grandpa Madara has watched far too many historical dramas and made one for his family. a lot of stuff in his house has it, and whenever he wants to gift something to his family, it always his that fan on it. the remaining Uchiha family is pretty sick of it

- for similar reasons he has his own mini-trebuchet that Obito helped him to order off Kakuzon under the promise he'll never use it against anyone. even before Obito left for Iwa grandpa already broke the promise a few times. probably with Fugaku being the unfortunate victim of it. at least he didn't use his Hashirama bodypillow at the time. he's figured how to buy it on his own a few years after Obito left

- and yes it's Kakuzon. because Kakuzu would absolutely love the horrors of modern day capitalism

- while Deidara in here is still as stubborn as they go, because this is a much more peaceful AU, she is much more okay with showing her desire to rely on Obito, like, for example, hiding behind him when she's feeling skittish

- old man Madara lives by "gaslight gatekeep grandpaboss" when it comes to Obito. a lot of things regarding his attitude here comes from my own experience with my older relatives + my knowledge on how old people act in Asian cultures, so that's why he's so over the top authoritarian and dramatically shuts the door whenever something doesn't go his way. and of course blaming everyone for being against him and not caring for him at all

- I'm sorry everyone but I do not agree that long-haired Obito was in any capacity hot. for me of all Uchihas the only one capable of pulling off the long-haired look is Madara and that's just barely. the rest of them just end up looking homeless, depressed and unwashed. i look at kid Obito with long hair and can just smell how dirty and full of lice they are

- of all the things in this fic that I reference from canon, the cane being a scythe is absolutely canon. i wish I was kidding you. but no, old man Madara indeed pulls up to recently awakened Obito with a fucking scythe as a walking cane.

i am not even sure who's the goofier mf between these two. shinobi world must be feeling ashamed that these goobers almost won

- "The old man may look feeble, but Deidara immediately knows that this guy is evil enough to live on a secluded bog like some sort of bitchy hag that steals young naive girls and offers to resurrect their dead husbands as zombies in exchange for their yet to be born babies." - that's the BG3 reference, in particular to Auntie Ethel's quest in Act 1. I was doing that part of the game with my friends as I was writing this fic, so I was feeling silly and inspired. Besides, lowkey Auntie Ethel and Madara would absolutely be besties. Living in some dank cave for years? Check. Offer some kids a deal with the devil and force them to wear a mask, causing them to end up insane? Check. Appearing youthul and handsome when meeting the protagonist when in reality they are an old creepy bitch? Check. Vicious mockery? *remembers Obito translating Madara's oldmanese to normal language for Naruto* Check.

- here Uchihas frequently end up with bloodshot eyes whenever they get pissed and glare at someone. yep, that's the Sharingan reference

- did I mention "gaslight gatekeep grandpaboss" already? yeah, Onoki loves to do that too, so Deidara is immune to that. Obito has a soft heart, so he isn't

- Leafone is a reference to a certain apples related brand, because it's funny to imagine old man Madara with a smartphone

- I forgot to mention but in all my AU whether they are posted or not Obito ends up calling Deidara "love" given that their relationship progresses to this phase, that's the nickname he's dreamed of giving to his one and only loved one

- some gaming lingo thrown here and there, but yes, Obito and Deidara love playing videogames together. one of the things that they do on the lazy weekends

- I did mention that Deidara was adopted by Kurotsuchi's family, but she doesn't see anyone except for her as her relatives really

- canonically Deidara flies 24/7, so it made sense to give her a pilot license lmao

- even if I write Madara as this iredeemabble evil, he did actually miss Obito a lot and expected him to properly return like a good grandchild he is, but then all of the sudden all of his plans are ruined because apparently Obito decided that he wants to marry someone🙄🙄🙄🙄

- on that note grandpa is also pretty sexist and racist lol. that's why he only talks with Obito and opts for ignoring Deidara outright. I do imagine that people from different countries in Naruto world have different accents, so grandpa pokes at that too

- because Obito was gone for years, Madara's yaoi collection has exponentialy expanded. he reads/watches it with something like "it could have been us Hashi fr😭😭😭😭". he also doesn't really like Fugaku's family, so he ended up alone with just his collection and his army. you can see why he's getting more and more insane in his family's eyes

- "good thing to know that the old guy wasn't connected to yakuza or something like that. After having to grow up in Onoki's vicinity, she wouldn't disregard such a possibility easily." - similarly to how canon Onoki uses Akatsuki, a terrosist organization, for his goals, here Onoki might have also dabbled in questionable solutions to his issues

- a lot of old people I know end up picking up gardening as their hobby. Madara is no exception to that lmao, so the Zetsu army transforms into a large cacti collection. I have no clue about how cacti multiply, so let's all assume that Black Zetsu is the oldest cacti of them all. He's also dead and really belongs in the trash, but Madara for some reason keeps him around. Guruguru is a straight up different plant (I google a twirly plant and that's pretty much the first thing that came up), it's a gift from Obito who also thought it's a cactus (it's not).

- on that note Madara doesn't bother with naming them really.

- lowkey Deidara is scared that Obito would have to inherit the Zetsu army eventually

- "Are you trying to inform me that you've still got two eyes after you stunt in Iwagakure? Color me surprised." - while techically Kannabi bridge wasn't Land of Earth per say, we certainly all remember a certain stunt that left Obito without an eye after getting to spend some time with some guys from Iwa

- Madara for years had a hatelove thing for Hashirama. unfortunately for him Hashirama was as dense as Obito sometimes is, so he never properly picked up on that, pretty happy with his wife Mito (who Madara treats as his enemy number 1)

- "a bony finger is thrust right into Obito's face, Deidara almost jumps to try and protect him from losing his left eye" - the very same one that Obito canonically loses

- "This feels like those ridiculous M rated comics Kurotsuchi loved to buy, something with the name "A Ninja Warlord Dies And Reincarnates In Our World Before Falling In Love With Another Average Guy" or something." - it was at this point that I decided that Kurotsuchi being a fujoshi and Deidara being an artist for such content would be the single funniest dynamic imaginable. let girls have hobbies. also yes a reference to canon Madara.

- "grandpa would spend all the time just complaining about how everything Senju-san ever did was wrong, go to a lot of his lectures, even crash Senju-san's granddaughter's wedding." - yep, that's Tsunade and Dan. at least in some universe they get to be together, even if an old wild man ends up crashing on their special day

- "Obito looks like he has just witnessed his crush getting murdered by his best friend." - you know exactly what moment this refers to.

- "Cacti certainly don't appreciate their master's grandson's dramatic outburst." - BSSM AU Zetsus do anger management classes just to deal with Obito's bullshit lmao

- "Just this year she gifted me an album with all of my different expressions, and somehow on every single one of them she's made me look five times as handsome as I am in real life!" - this is actually a reference to one of my most favorite fics for Obidei, but I'll talk about it on another day. in that fic Deidara used to hide his hobby of drawing, believing that Obito wouldn't support it and would forbid him from doing it. in the end, Obito ends up seeing the album with Deidara's drawings, including a very silly one with Obito being angry, all of which Obito absolutely loves

- by the end of the fic Madara actually refers to Deidara by her name for the first time. hooray. yaoi bonding

and that's it for "Dealing with the Devil"!

while I was writing my submissions for obidei week I stumbled upon this meme and almost fucking died, because it's literally just old man Madara from this fic

#naruto #jolt showa's fanfiction #jolt showa's obidei #jolt showa's ramblings

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fourangers · 3 years ago

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Hi Fourangers,

First of all, I love your blog so much. It's like going through a history back when Naruto Manga chapters were released weekly and your reviews were so Golden, Hilarious and spot-on. Am a new fan though (especially an SNS fan), I just got into this fandom only this year. I don't know if you'll answer my ask, but I just wanted to try and ask you few questions and I pray that you might answer me....

1. Since you've written in a post that you were active in the eastern part of the fandom, How was chapter 698 received in Japan? Because this is the chapter I inherently realized they both love each other. Yeah, I was too late but somehow whenever they interact with each other in previous chapters I always find them to be 'Weird' for just to be friends. Chapter 698 is just blatantly obvious that they love each other. Considering Homophobia and Shounen genre, I have no idea how it was perceived over there back then in 2014.

2. Which scene made you to ship SNS?

3. As an SNS'er how do you feel about the ending, where everyone was married off when they were just 19 just to make some shitty sequel??? As a new fan, I felt betrayed and It would've been perfect if they had stopped at chapter 699, leaving an open ending.

4. How do you face with the accusation about Naruto and Sasuke as brothers and we, SNS'ers are Incest shippers??? I don't care about that Indra and Ashura thing. But Naruto himself told he considers Sasuke as his Brother couple of times. And in Chapter 699, Sasuke acknowledged, 'He finally understood what it meant'.... It's the only thing that confuses me and I don't even have an answer!!! Plus, Kishi himself gave an interview that he based Sasuke on his Brother... I really wonder how he gave such an interview when he literally made them wear necklaces with each other's faces.

5. How was Naruto and Sasuke's sexuality perceived in the fandom back then??? Man!! Kishimoto just made lot of comic reliefs on their sexuality by making Sasuke on Sai jutsu, Naruto not interested in Icha Icha but making Reverse Harem no Jutsu, Naruto was angry when Konohamaru made Boy on Boy jutsu whereas he had no problem with him doing it. LOL. And all those homoerotic posters. What do you think about their sexuality, personally??

6. Why did Kishi had to develop their bond as Soulmates with some unintentional or intentional romantic undertones, if he was eventually going to pair them up with girls??? He easily could've gave many such romantic tropes to other girls and keep the bond between N and S as purely friendship or brothers. It still would've made sense.

7. Final one, Was Naruto really Nosebleeding when Kurama made a joke about Sasuke's kiss in Chapter 572???? We had a lot of heated discussion with other shippers where they claim that it was just a splotch of snot.

Sorry for the lengthy ask....... I am so eager to know your answers and I don't want to spam your ask box by sending multiple asks.

Thanks 😊😊😊

Hey yo! Welcome new SNS fan! I'm so glad that you joined us and I'll try to answer as best as I can. I'm not very active here on tumblr (except browsing lol) but your ask was such a delight to read.

1. I honestly don't remember. I think I didn't follow the japanese boards until the eventual 699-700 disaster. People were craving for reactions and I was curious about it too lol. And well...it's been years, I doubt I'll be able to find the reactions from that time. Imo, most readers don't care much about pairings, they just wanted to read about power-ups and abilities and the basic Naruto Vs Sasuke. Though there are some backhanded jokes about how gay Naruto is for Sasuke.

2. Hah. It's going to be very anti-climatic but it was when Naruto and Sakura were eating in Ichiraku Ramen. Naruto just used Rasenshuriken against Kakuzu and he busted his arm. Sakura was healing his arm and her attention was focused on Naruto. I used to be a NaruSaku shipper so I thought "Oh hey! This is the moment that Naruto would have a candid romantic moment!" But nope. He talked about Sasuke. And I was already getting suspicious about Sasuke's feelings towards Naruto ya know? And the whole "SASUKE IS MIINEEEEEE" in Orochimaru's lair. It was that moment I thought "you only have Sasuke in your head don't you, Naruto?" and started shipping SNS.

3. Hooo boy was I surprised when it was suddenly revealed that they had the basic heteronormative, boring marriage with bunch of clones of themselves. Everyone thought that it was almost like a bad fanfiction come true and some thought that it was fake. It was a pandemonium lolololol. I also thought that it was too lame to be true and lo and behold, when it came true I was floored. And then whenever Kishimoto threw new material, I got insanely pissed off because S*arada and B*ruto becoming pairing material is ok because they are a girl and a boy, and then they paralleled with Naruto and Sasuke which are only FRIENDS because they are both men. ARGH. Open ending was what Kishimoto planned from the very beginning but wrote a sequel to earn more money.

In that aspect, I made peace with it because of the whole anime/manga industry. I learned that, as a mangaka, you don't earn a lot of money with selling books, but rather with merchandise and profiting with sales right. And that guy have a family to raise, have two kids (which is hilarious about how B*ruto movie is his self-insert story), he needs a steady income. Also, I read reports about how anime studios are so poor and animators don't receive a decent income not to mention they are overstaffed and tired, and B*ruto is a good money cow for them to earn money so they can invest later on other anime they have more passion about it. So even though I hate this story with a strength of thousands suns, they are putting meal on people's tables and making them pay rents. I'm ok.

4. Lemme roll my eyes because in the Last movie they said that Hinata is related to Kaguya and so is the Uzumaki and Uchiha clan so they are all related woo hoo. But in the aspect of brothers because reincarnations bla bla bla, didn't Naruto himself said that he's no longer that brother, he's himself? Hmm...I gotta re-read it. One day. Maybe. lol. But I'm sure that he said "Sasuke is not my brother but I'm sure we'll understand well as friends" so there. Honestly, there are a lot of interviews out there and a lot of them are fake, so I'd always take the interviews with a grain of salt lololol. I do know from artbooks that Kishimoto wanted to create Sasuke as a rival-esque character and that was it. As he was developing Sasuke and Naruto's relationship, since he liked the whole yin-yang concept, whenever he wrote Naruto's story, Sasuke's was developed at the same time as his shadow.

5. I can tell from Naruto Forums (I used to participate back in that day) MOST of the non-shippers thought it was gay as hell, but you know...it was a relic of that time. While they thought it was gay, they didn't put too much thought about you know? Because it was shounen, and we knew that it was a joke that it couldn't be taken seriously. Of course, in the SNS fandom, we did make more analysis and there were a lot of instance when Naruto and Sasuke's sexuality was questioned. Some other non-shippers also thought that Naruto was totes gay for Sasuke (including a IRL friend).

Imo, Naruto is definitely bisexual in my view. Sasuke I think he's asexual or gay. He's attracted to Naruto, but mostly because of his connection to him, not because of his physical attributes, so yeah...asexual. Or Pansexual. Sasuke is more complicated lmao. Imo, Naruto could be pansexual too, come to think about it. Yeah, I guess both being pansexual can be valid.

6. He developed Naruto and Sasuke being soulmates from the very beginning, that was proven in his comments in artbooks and in the manga. He probably created with the intention of making it purely platonic, going beyond physical ties. Then he shot himself on the foot by drawing Naruto thinking about Sasuke on bed, talking about how Sasuke is cool, meanwhile Sasuke waxing poetic about how Naruto saved him. What gives? Lol. Yeah, I think he got too enamored writing their relationship that he didn't have time to write romantic ones. What I noticed that Sakura's popularity never was really high, so I could see some editors putting their fingers all over it and making her less relevant. Also, Kishimoto didn't know how to handle her, so when she got her time to shine was the whole fake confession disaster. Coupled with Kishimoto sexism and, in his words (Kurenai's flashback), women are useful to spout more babies, women was never really relevant in his story, unfortunately. Even Kaguya who was technically the big bad boss, was never really fleshed out in comparison to Madara. So the null het romantic moments it's not because he wanted to elevate SNS moments, it's more about how he's incompetent about it. It's either Hinata slowly elevating to a relevant status because forced interaction (Pain's sacrifice and Neji's death) or Sakura being obligated to be pining over Sasuke because she's a girl. It's even more painful to see that, if we ignore B*ruto, both girls are shown to be just talking with their kids and dusting shelves, basically being housewives, even though thorough the story (especially Sakura) it was implied that both of them have much more potential than being their husband accessories.

7. It was a splotch of snot. I can confirm myself lol. Whenever the chapter is out and fans would scan it to scanlate it, the editor usually would amp up contrast to max. So usually the lines get much more thicker than usual, when you read the official release which gets straight from the source, you can notice how the lines are more delicate.

Oh lol...but then we also have a lot of controversy about translating style. THAT one is a whole new can of worms to open.

Man I had fun answering your questions! Please send more :P

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sasuita · 6 years ago

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[[ kinqpein. tumblr. com /post/ 175954697308/ personally-i-think-itachi-was-an-abusive-piece-of ]] I dunno if this will let the link go through, but it's this one, the notes in there are pretty bad, too. thank you for the response! :3c

Anonymous: Personally, I think Itachi was an abusive piece of shit. I feel like his entire treatment of Sasuke is was makes him utterly irredeemable.

Thinking and truth are different things, anon...

For the most part I do agree with you, anonymous. I don’t agree about Itachi being irredeemable though. At the same time though I agree that the narrative DOES set him up to be irredeemable.

The narrative does not set Itachi up to be irredeemable. You’d literally have to be ignoring large arcs of chapters to think he’s irredeemable. Especially the Edo Tensei arc where he gets a change to speak to Sasuke and explain himself and offer his unconditional love. You don’t give a character the chance to mend a broken relationship if he’s not meant to be seen with some sort of apathy/empathy.

Itachi Uchiha could have been redeemed if he had simply explained everything to Sasuke sooner / in due time. That’s what makes his character so ass backwards and contradictory [towards the end] because his actions were inexcusable as to why he couldn’t just confront Sasuke.

Pray tell how that happens, because it’s a lot simpler than Itachi just going “you know what, imma tell him.” I hate this ass backwards idea that Itachi was in full mental control of himself at all times and that no other external factors existed to prevent him doing this. It’s literally explained in the manga, he didn’t realize his mistakes until after he died.

Itachi would have gone to his everlasting grave and would’ve never told Sasuke the truth if not for Kabuto reviving Itachi

...And? It was his plan to go to his grave and not tell Sasuke anything. Was it a shitty plan? Yes. But it was his plan to begin with.

[which was almost impossible because I remember Kabuto expressing he didn’t have everyone’s DNA to do Edo Tensei].

Itachi died in a very public area, his blood, hair, and skin cells were ALL OVER the arena since he was coughing up blood and had a very violent fight. It was not at all difficult for Kabuto to swoop in and collect Itachi’s DNA. It being impossible to collect some specific people’s DNA does not mean Itachi was difficult to revive.

Itachi kept using the excuse that Sasuke was too young to understand why he did what he did, but was somehow mature enough to endure the suffering and trauma at the tender age of five.

You can’t use that against Itachi because he himself realized that was the wrong attitude to take. Why do people like this always call Itachi out for actions he himself have admitted are wrong? You act like he’s trying to excuse himself or deflect blame and he did absolutely none of that. Also the massacre happened when Sasuke was 7, not 5. How am I supposed to take analysis seriously from someone who can’t even remember basic facts?

It didn’t make sense and Kishimoto knew this.

It does make sense. It’s not the right thing to do but it makes sense. PLENTY of people in the world function under this detrimental mindset of wanting to protect their children or siblings from things they think they’re not ready for.

If Itachi wasn’t portrayed as a loving older brother then I agree that he couldn’t have been redeemed. However because he was shown as a loving big brother, that’s why I believe he could have been.

He-- was literally portrayed as a loving older brother post the truth? Do you people not know critical reading anymore. Being abusive/aggressive was a farce, actions that are not natural to him. You can love someone and still do things for them that are wrong, ontop of that.

His apology to Sasuke was never genuine to me. Sasuke had to corner him in order to get answers and that’s what made it so unfair for me on a narrative standpoint.

It was 100% genuine from him and he needed that push from Sasuke. I’m sorry you just can’t read?

Itachi used his last moments to tell Sasuke that he would rather be a coward than a hero. He died a coward though, not a hero. He undid the jutsu but the damage was already done; he relayed information to Sasuke that Sasuke once again had to live and suffer with while Itachi had the excuse to die again and be freed of burden.

He gave Sasuke important information in the method of literally all of his memories and left Sasuke to make a choice on his own because he knows Sasuke is a smart, capable shinobi who can come to his own conclusion. He saved countless lives by ending the Edo Tensei and in Sasuke’s novel he is hailed as a war hero.

To me, Itachi could’ve been redeemed in those last moments if instead of telling Sasuke about the truth and why he hid it from him, he could’ve relayed to Sasuke that he never regretted being a big brother.

“Hm yes instead of telling Sasuke important information and why he chose to hurt him and how it was a mistake, let’s appeal to emotion.”

Does I will love you forever not count anymore?? What is with this person. He clearly didn’t regret being Sasuke’s big brother, he regretted treating him wrong and putting him down the path of more pain because he didn’t tell him things.

(And if you want thoughts of him as he’s ascending into Ninja Heaven, just play the Full Burst version of the fight, come on.

He never regretted that he had the chance to protect Sasuke despite sacrificing his family for the village. In the end, Itachi died just a coward that was FORCED to tell Sasuke the truth. He was cornered and out of time. He did so because HE wanted to be free of burden, but he once again puts that load on Sasuke to bear.

Are you on something? It’s not about being free of guilt uwu, it’s about finally telling Sasuke something he should’ve told him a long time ago. It’s about FINALLY treating Sasuke like a person who commands equal respect.

That’s what makes him irredeemable and unforgivable. He didn’t relinquish that information to soothe Sasuke, he explained everything so that his soul could rest in peace while Sasuke could harness it.

lksjdlfkjlskdjf

I liked Itachi Uchiha as a character but he’s disgustingly selfish as a person.

He’s selfish up until his death. Dying and being revived and fighting Kabuto with Sasuke made him realize how selfish he had been, so he finally did the right thing and was selfless to Sasuke.

#Anonymous #ask #pro itachi #analysis #what are these people on i stg #this is just as bad as when people blame him alone for the massacre

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kopfkinoes · 7 years ago

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I’ve been a Naruto fan for like 13 years now but after the manga ended I pretty much left the fandom because I anticipated the vitriol that was going to follow after the ending. Every once in a while I stumbled upon a Naruto post that made me realize I had been right and I didn’t interact. But at the end of 2017 I came back and…nothing has changed. I honestly think this is one of the worst, most immature fandoms out there. I feel like so many of the people in the fandom are perpetual twelve year olds. And it kind of bothers me that Sasuke and Sakura, my absolute favourites since day one, are still disrespected as fuck. Now, mind you, I’m not talking about the ship, I’m talking about them as individual characters although I do ship them. I’ve multishipped for a long, long time but not anymore.

They are the first ones I shipped because I had a feeling stuff was bound to happen between them but then I discovered the wonders of the web and instantly moved to ship Naruto and Sasuke. I never once hated Sakura and Hinata though and even in the later years when “feminist” rhetoric moved into fandoms, I took the “these women are strong and powerful and I love them, they don’t need no man” thing to be good. But after the ending, and now seeing how many of the people who ship Naruto and Sasuke are downright anti-Sakura and insult and disrespect her in so many ways I realized “Wow! I had been an idiot all along. These people never gave a shit about Sakura, they were saying all of that stuff to get her out of the way.” I don’t see people talking about how Naruto and Sasuke’s bond diminishes their battle abilities, I see none of the shippers implying that their development would be flushed down the drain if they ended up in a relationship. Yet, that is apparently true for the women. Right.

Sasuke is a character with a lot of potential. But he was never able to evolve. And do you know why? Because of Naruto. Sasuke was created in order to be the opposite of Naruto and, for the most part, that is all remains to be. I’ve been staning Sasuke forever but this is the truth. He exists in order to be Naruto’s rival and in order to be pissed that he, a guy coming from a clan of prodigies, keeps falling behind the class clown and loser (who is anything but that when you think of it, Minato was anything but a weak guy and Kushina, while we don’t get a good look at her abilities, has loads of stamina and healing powers and her abilities were considered exceptional even among the Uzumaki, not to mention how easily Naruto masters everything new he tries). In the end, he is subdued by Naruto and the Will of Fire.

Even after all of this, he is still not allowed to be around his family. Why? Simply because he needs to be the opposite of Naruto. He needed to point a sword at his own daughter and it was Naruto who had to comfort and reassure her. Sasuke will never be an overly affectionate person, I don’t think he will ever realistically go back to his pre-massacre personality (he wasn’t exactly super bubbly as a child either, he was reserved around other people but very happy around his family) and frankly, he doesn’t need to. He wouldn’t ever be a husband who does grand romantic gestures or a super cuddly father but he’s loyal and devoted and these things shouldn’t be brushed away for some mission or for creating angst just to prove that Naruto is a better, more understanding person that he’ll ever be, even when it comes to Sarada. Like, for fuck’s sake, does everything Sasuke does need to happen right before Naruto waltzes in and puts him in his place by being a better person? Can Sasuke not be a person in his own right without the constant comparisons to Naruto?

What I also find interesting is how often I see Sasuke becoming completely OOC when paired with Naruto. Of course everybody says Sasuke is OOC when paired with Sakura but frankly I’ve rarely seen Sasuke presented as lovey dovey around Sakura, people usually want him to be proud of her but he stays his usual tepid self. Because that’s Sasuke’s personality, he’s not a conventionally affectionate person and there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s why it bothers me when I see Sasuke made to be a soft, sensitive, pastel boy aesthetic. He’s not that and he wouldn’t be that even if he were gay. I mean, I understand headcanons but don’t root them in the “seme and uke” dynamics, please.

Moving on, I have a particular kind of contempt for people suggesting Sasuke cheated on Sakura with Karin. It makes absolutely no sense character-wise and it just shits all over Sasuke by assuming he’s a disgusting fucker who would cheat. Are you telling me that the dude who didn’t even consider taking advantage of even a single one of the girls who were fawning over him would have a face-heel turn and cheat? Yeah, right. I don’t understand how you can call yourself a Sasuke fan and genuinely support cheating. Why would Sasuke wait to be with Sakura in order to have sex with Karin when he and Karin had so many opportunities to bang prior to this while they were travelling together as a team? Why would he have a child with Karin and just dump the child on Sakura’s head? I don’t even want to hear superiority arguments that go along the lines of “Karin is an Uzumaki so she has superior genes compared to Sakura who doesn’t come from a clan” because…arguments like these are disgusting. I don’t think it was ever even slightly implied that Sasuke (or the Uchiha for that matter) held beliefs like this. If anything, these guys didn’t like being othered and set apart from the rest of the village. I don’t think Sasuke ever implied that he believes some vaginas are not genetically pure enough for him to get into so please don’t put these shitty beliefs on him. Sasuke was described as “pure”. It’s simply the way he is. I really don’t care that you think he’s not a “True Hetero Guy” unless he cheats and/or has sex with loads of women.

I always see people saying fans who ship Sasuke and Sakura are “disgusted” by the thought of Sasuke having sex with someone else. But do you know how many people I’ve seen saying how grossed out Sasuke must be by being around pussy (specifically Sakura’s) and how he probably cries and is traumatized by the experience? I’ve yet to see people talking about how Sasuke must be super disgusted by dick.

Moving on to Sakura, pretty much 100% of the vitriol I’ve seen thrown at her comes from misogyny. People always like to say it’s not misogyny and yet it always is. It comes from Kishimoto himself and his ideas of women. He constantly described Sakura as “not cute” and “a hard woman”. And it’s true, Sakura’s not demure or submissive and doesn’t appear to be very suited for domesticity. I don’t believe that just because she is loud and outspoken she would make a dreadful wife and mother. She was very shy as a child (mostly because she was insecure) but she grew into herself. About her not being cute, I’d say that’s debatable. Kishimoto said she’s not cute in the beginning and I see a lot of haters talking about “that ugly bitch Sakura” but let me tell you this, Naruto and Rock Lee had pretty intense crushes on her and Jiraiya compared her appearance to Tsunade’s (although the man’s trash when it comes to women but you get my point). What do people base their opinions on when they say she’s ugly? On her exaggerated anger expressions? Because Sakura is not drawn as prettier or uglier than any of the other female characters. Is it based on the fact that people love to bring up time and time again, that she doesn’t have big breasts? Yeah, she doesn’t have breasts as big as Tsunade’s or Hinata’s or even Ino’s but what does that have to do with anything? Nope, this is rooted in misogyny because, just like in real life, when you don’t like a woman you insult her based on her body and appearance because you believe that’s where all the worth of a woman is. Besides, don’t you think there something wrong with focusing so much on the body type of a girl aged 12 to 17? Because I think there is.

I always feel like laughing at people who call her stupid because Sakura is a nerd. This is why she was paired with the more battle prone Naruto and Sasuke because she was too much brains and not enough brawn. I know that it was Ino, Shino and Sasuke that graduated top of the class but, according to the Databooks, none of them beat Sakura in intelligence, she is equal to Shino and higher than Ino and Sasuke. People love to say that her being able to do the written part of the Chunin Exam all by herself doesn’t prove that she’s actually smart, buddy, it does. The fact that she’s smart doesn’t make the rest of the students who cheated idiots. That was the point of the test, the questions were too difficult for 12 year old genin to answer. The fact that Sakura could, however, isn’t bullshit. You wouldn’t call an exceptionally gifted kid who can answer really advanced academic questions “not that smart really, it doesn’t prove anything”. Freaking Sasuke commented on her analytical abilities, she’s an extremely skilled med-nin, she is able to put pieces of information she’s previously learnt together in order to form a present opinion, her hobbies are trivia games and memorizing medical ninjutsu material for God’s sake.

I definitely don’t think comparing her to Hinata achieves anything. Hinata does represent the ideas Kishimoto seems to have about women. She is soft-spoken, she is never confrontational, she never wants to offend anybody. Sure, Hinata also has her insecurities and doesn’t place much value on herself (we have her father to thank for that) but even after getting out of that shell and discovering she has some iron at her core, she is still mostly soft. That’s not a bad thing at all, it’s simply who she is as a person and it doesn’t make her better or worse than Sakura. I know that Sakura fans have always been bullied online, from forums to YouTube to tumblr to any other comment section of blogs and stuff, people have always thrown shit at Sakura, saying she’s useless, a whore, an idiot. The amount of times I’ve seen people wish violent, horrible deaths on Sakura (for the sole reason that she didn’t spread her legs for Naruto being the catalyst in pretty much 100% of the cases) is immense. The amount of times I’ve seen people wishing Hinata would kill Sakura “for what she did to Naruto” is huge. So based on this, I understand why Sakura fans feel the need to get defensive. I don’t agree with putting Hinata down but I understand why some people might do it. I’ll never put down someone’s fav (especially when the fav is as unproblematic as Hinata who honestly did nothing wrong) but I definitely understand why some people will do it.

Naruto is a shonen, battle manga. We will never get 100% healthy relationships in this because the manga is not focused on romance. It is why the relationships between Sasuke and Sakura and Naruto and Hinata were not greatly developed and why there was an overemphasis on Naruto and Sasuke’s bond which is basically “we’re forever competing to see who’s better”. Kishimoto based it on his relationship with his brother but I’m pretty sure he took it up to eleven in the manga. Because Naruto is a manga for whom the target audience is boys, female characters will never be 100% appreciated. Most of the boys watching identify with the downtrodden outcast, guys such as Lee or Naruto. It’s a thing, associated with the stereotype of the Western man who watches anime, a stereotype that is proved to be correct in most cases, sadly. How many of these guys think they’re gems, that they’re precious souls to have around and girls just don’t see them for what they are? Both Naruto and Lee are very loved among male fans and they are both rejected by Sakura. (I could also say something about the stereotypes Western anime watching men place on Japanese women, namely “the pliant, submissive wife, who would do house chores all day, would never say no to sex and worship them as the much better versions of Japanese men that they are” but I’m not going there.) Never cruelly though, she remains friendly with both of them. Her bond with Naruto is very strong and they’re actually a pretty rare example of a good male and female friendship (the violence that is played for laughs doesn’t really mean much to me).

However, for the male fans that is never enough. How many times did I see stuff like “She chose Sasuke although Naruto never left the village” or “Naruto did so many things for her yet she still chose Sasuke”. Dude, there was never a competition. Sakura loves Sasuke, plain and simple. You can disagree with that if you want, you can disagree with how she expresses her love for him but there was never competition. Sakura has always loved Sasuke, what she feels for him is true love. Many people don’t believe it exists but it is what it is. I find it funny (and by funny I mean idiotic to the heavens) that people always say her development was crushed because she didn’t give up on Sasuke but Naruto’s was improved by not giving up on Sasuke. This is bias and misogyny at its finest. Sasuke is not just a crush to Sakura. People always want to say Sakura was a fangirl to Sasuke and nothing more and that she simply needed to get over her obsessive crush. She wouldn’t have said all she wanted was for him to acknowledge her if he were just a crush, she wouldn’t have suffered so badly over him. Many of the village girls had a thing for Sasuke and I doubt all of them cried over Sasuke at night after he left. Only Sakura anticipated when he was going to leave. People always say that Sakura maturing would have meant her understanding that her and Sasuke are just not meant to be a thing. The thing is, she wasn’t holding on to the idea that her and Sasuke would be “a thing”. Kakashi made it pretty clear (to Sasuke and to all fans who just can’t get it in their heads) that Sakura only wanted to help him, not to get into his pants.

People are also super quick to judge the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura as abusive. Why though? All the times they were violent towards each other (and there weren’t even that many times) they weren’t dating, they were combatants on opposite sides of battle. There is nobody in this series that Sasuke is more violent towards than Naruto and yet I never see this relationship classified as abusive, instead it is considered romantic and heartfelt that he wanted to sever his bonds with Naruto in order to make a martyr out of himself and be consumed by darkness. Like, yeah, that’s super healthy. I see the same thing being said with Karin, that Sasuke impaled her simply because he wanted to cut all of his bonds, not because he actually wanted to kill her. Which is…stupid to say the least. Like, cool story, still murder. He knew that impaling her would result in killing her but damn, was he willing to make that sacrifice. The reasons why Sasuke wanted to murder the people in his life are not important. In truth, all the murder he wanted to commit was because people were getting in the way of killing Itachi and, after killing Itachi, people were getting in the way of his goal to be completely alone in order to destroy/reform Konoha. Sasuke is not a psychopath who murders for fun but that doesn’t mean he was in a good place.

I shipped Sasuke with Karin but I never saw their bond as overly emotional or true love. I’m not saying Karin doesn’t care about him but I do think her feelings for him are more in the realm of sexual than the romantic. She does care for his well-being, she wants him to be happy, she is impressed by him and wants to be around him but it’s not romantic. Does she suffer when she thinks he’s dead? Naturally. Because she cares about him and she does love him but, again, not romantically. Karin’s sexual feelings for Sasuke are not bad, they don’t make her a whore or whatever. But it’s quite silly in my opinion to mistake them for some sort of pure, true love. They’re not that and it’s fine that they’re not. We see Sakura wanting to be alone with Sasuke but she never thinks of how she’s so excited she can barely stand it and how she wants to “ravage Sasuke like crazy”. We don’t see Sakura’s reaction, upon seeing Sasuke arrive on the battlefield to be “I want to lick Sasuke all over right now”.

People always like to remind everyone that Sakura ended her friendship with Ino over Sasuke. However, we never see Sakura and Ino be hostile to each other. Compare their rivalry to the one between Sasuke and Naruto to understand what I’m saying. They had a mild dislike going on but we see them quickly overcome it in the Chunin Exams. Sakura and Ino never really gave up on their friendship, their rivalry was mostly played for laughs, I never took it seriously because I don’t think it was presented in a way that was saying “you need to take this seriously, this is the real deal”. Mostly because it dealt with who has prettier hair and who can get the seat next to Sasuke first. Nope, not serious.

Back to Hinata, this is the reason why so many of the fanboys prefer her. Look at the opinions Shikamaru, another character the fanboys adore, has about women. He is downright misogynistic but that gets overlooked in fandom time after time because of his 200 IQ. Instead, I see people saying it is Sasuke who hates women when there is no indication of that, except, you know, people who think he’s gay and because he’s gay he MUST hate all women and consider them absolutely gross (except for the, sometimes OC, self-insert in fanfiction). Just like his father, Shikamaru has this thing that women should be sweet, soft and tender not headstrong, demanding and even harsh (women like his mother, Yoshino, Ino, Temari, Tayuya). He hates receiving help from women, he is frustrated when he has to fight women. He sums up his views of women himself by saying “C'mon. You know what they’re like. You can never figure them out. You never know where you could stand with them. The smallest things could put you in their bad side. Always playing little mind games with you. Trying to make you do what they want. They’re just a big pain basically.”

For the most part, many fans linked Sakura to Kushina because of her fiery personality. Minato kinda sealed this comparison when saying Sakura reminded him of Kushina. So a lot of people, while calling Sakura an ugly bitch and a whore who needs to be raped and die, still wanted her for Naruto and believed she will ultimately change her mind and go for Naruto. Personally, I don’t care about that because so many characters in Naruto are carbon copies of people who came before them, enough similarities are enough. This idea that a guy should marry a woman just like his mother is weird for many reasons to me. It’s only men that have unhealthy relationships with their mothers that want a woman exactly like their mothers. Then the ending came so Hinata, being the embodiment of what a woman “should be” became more appropriate for Naruto in the eyes of so many fans. The fact that she fits these patterns doesn’t take away or add to Hinata’s character in any way. It just is. However, fanboys will use it in a sexist way. I definitely don’t agree with the criticism for Hinata that it’s wrong her motivation for becoming strong is Naruto. The motivation of pretty much all characters in becoming stronger is in order to protect others and there's nothing wrong with wanting to improve yourself because you feel that would put you on more equal grounds with the one you love. This manga places great value on the power of unity and community and people who seek power for power’s sake, for revenge or for evil don’t do well. They are either defeated or they change their minds. Great emphasis is placed on the “you only become strong when you have someone you need to protect” mentality. And women are allowed to make connections in this life, they don’t have to live “lone wolf” lives in order to be “truly strong”. Loneliness is an enemy in and of itself in Naruto.

Kishimoto’s views on women are not necessarily progressive but they’re not exactly bad in my opinion. It all has to do with how fanboys twist his ideas and make them bad. Because I don’t think he ever blamed Sakura for not hooking up with Naruto. I know there are people who believe that he’s holding onto the belief that people (and women especially) must forever be with their first love. I think it just so happens that Naruto and Sasuke were Hinata’s and Sakura’s first loves but, more important, they are their true loves. Ino moved on and I see people saying she shouldn’t have. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t I guess. To sum up, I’ve yet to see dislike for Sakura that’s not misogynistic. I’m not even talking about people who think she’s weak. She is the only one who’s not from a clan and yet she managed to surpass Tsunade, a Sannin. She was impaled by Madara and shook it off immediately, she saved Naruto’s, Kankuro’s, Hinata’s and Karin’s lives, she saved Sasuke from an infinte desert, she saved Obito from a sea of acid, she punched an alien all-powerful goddess in the face.

People saying shipping Sakura and Hinata with the guys they’re canonically in love with proves their fans are selfish because they just want them to look cute next to Sasuke and Naruto amuse me. That if you really cared about them you’d ship them with guys who “actually” care about them like Lee or Kiba or whatever. Dude, people love who they love. And a woman has no obligation to be with a man who was friendly and nice to her, not even a man who has a crush on her if she’s not attracted to him or doesn’t love him.

#my post #not even going to tag this because not only am i not trying to start a fight i don't want any #these are simply my thoughts #i never thought i'd be this involved in this fandom in my 20s #mind you i don't think either of these relationships are abusive #like i said this is a battle manga with battle situations #combatants fight it's the way it is #but if you're gonna consider one abusive based on standards you made up #might as well not be a hypocrite and consider all ships abusive #even the ones you like #honestly all the pseudo arguments i've read are baseless #just admit you don't like certain ships and move on #no need to give justification #because you're tying yourself in knots and just soundind like a jerk

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ryodan · 7 years ago

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@bubblegalaxylove

Since you actually believe you can argue using the manga let’s go back to

Your words: uHh i doNt seE why anyone would shiP IT

me: invalid argument, it’s one of the most popular ships in history

you: TyPICAL SS, now LET ME HAVE A DICK MEASURING COMPETITION

i dont care who’s more popular dear you’ll notice I called sns an otp, what I keep telling you is to hold both characters to an EQUAL standard..which you clearly fucking don’t like,, what joke.

Anyways, last sns bash of the day, mutuals scroll past

A respectable woman is a woman who knows what she is fighting for, sakura is a respectable woman, a narrative pushed multiple times by the story but AGAIN selective reading. It was made by kishimoto? I am no fucking weeb i am a person fluent in Japanese and I don’t need no subtitles but if you’re so hellbent on it then go listen to it yourself in the anime, episode 109, 19:01. ‘koko ni ite’ Koko= here ni= a japanese particle indicating place or direction, itte= stay, be koko ni itte= be here, stay here. Kissanime has the most accurate translations of part 1, I can say that as a person who owns the triple viz volumes 19 20 21 and most the viz volumes and the panel you’re using is page 395...part of their earlier days where they made translating mistakes like the Ino vs Sakura chapters and the bad job they did to my favourite series Ranma 1/2 as back in the day Viz was smaller and still not held to the standard of accuracy they are held to today. She says IKANAIDE , Ikemasu = go, naide= don’t. Ikanaide = don’t go. But sure, you know better than me a person who’s studied Japanese since age 7 and in fact has Japanese friends and relatives living there.

馬鹿は馬鹿だ. 仕方が無い

You really want to go objectively?

Who’s the character praised for selfless love by canon standards?

But you STILL don’t acknowledge both her and Naruto were doing the EXACT SAME THING. You calling her stupid but canon is here like knock knock

I can list 3 other instances but i’m on data so oops

AGAIN with your selective reading and bullshit logic. Yes he protected Naruto for OBVIOUS fucking reasons they were one of the strongest people FIGHTING A WORLD WAR, he protected Kakashi and Sakura too MULTIPLE TIMES I don’t care what kind of point you are trying to prove about sasuke but lmao ok ur such a fan. He was going to kill Naruto right afterwards do you realize what backwards logic you are using right now????

Had Sakura and kakashi fallen into the genjustu trap it would not have been a huge issue since the 2 people with the sage of six paths power and yin and yang release were what is needed to seal Kaguya. But even SO he saved them, and Naruto pointed out THAT HIS BODY MOVES ON IT’S OWN FOR THE PEOPLE HE CARES ABOUT. Sasuke was trying to come off heartless as he was immersing himself in darkness, this is nothing new to his character but you don’t know it do you

YOU ARE USING A FALSE TRANSLATION HONEY THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID

But okay, sasuke protecting them multiple times, warning them, looking out for them STILL doesn’t matter for your bullshit preception

I don’t fucking know what point you are trying to argue since you can’t type

But it does not change the fact that sasuke had in fact made sure they were safe before saving Naruto so idk what point you getting at, you reaching for shit that is so far idk if you are getting it from your anus or uranus. The reasons for battle were stated THROUGH the manga in my post not some badly made sappy edit.

Sasuke attacked to attack he had shit to do with wanting to understand naruto, it was naruto who wanted to understand sasuke what the fuck are you ON

USE THEIR BATTLES

i did use their battles fucker? I also used CONTEXT something you can’t for the life of you understand. 1st battle THEY WERE ABOUT TO KILL EACH OTHER OVER PETTINESS AND GOADING. 2nd he almost BURNED his ass to a crisp for interfering, then fought for the mangekyo..feelings were involved because they are BEST FRIENDS ofc they would be but the reason he stopped was because as he said TWICE to HIMSELF and to naruto was that killing his helpless best friend to obtain power was too much of an Itachi like thing to do, stop reaching it’s PATHETIC admit the faults of your ship before attacking peoples views.

You really REALLY want to have this dick measuring competition of who sasuke cares about? He was willing to give up his revenge for BOTH because sasuke loves BOTH he is not a one dimensional shallow shit like you want him to be

AND AGAIN

All sakura got was a soRRY!!! she NEVER realized he was WRONG

she HERSELF realizes the DEPTH of the situation and even tho heartbroken decides to kill him? but she could not because despite all she had hope for him?

Sasuke and Sakura have BOTH attacked each other, she went on to fight him when he STABBED HER TEAM CAPTAIN because she realizes he is wrong..him fighting back is abusive? okay lmao sorry i forgot naruto is a shoujo about fairy princesses, ninjas don’t fight here. If anything I respect that when they met as fighters they MET as FIGHTERS. And these were not her last moments, they were flashbacks that caused her resolve to falter because she had hope for sasuke

and sasukes last words would have been about him wanting to kill his brother, but he let it go because he would never let a comrade die in front of him, not after sharing memories together lmao reach further

cry me a river over the genjutsu scene that she woke up from the same way she wakes up from sleep, but remember this: while sasukes IMAGINARY hand went through her boob naruto got MUCH worse luck

But it’s okay because he did not kill him when he was on the floor : ) despite having FULL intentions of doing so

I take it back. Let the boy speak WITH CONTEXT.

Nobody is trying to deny sasuke’s lonely ass seeing another lonely kid reaching out made him feel relieved and happy, that is a GOOD aspect about sns, but there is a bitch ass trying to deny his feelings for all of team 7. ‘thats why’ ‘dakara’ in Japanese, you can’t move that stone.

I own the sasuke shinden novel that ended with him going back once sakura triggered a flashback, and where in the anime the scene he is thinking about naruto is actually him thinking about his ‘friends’ but you know what fucker? That novel, and sakuras shitty novel are NOT canon, they are not written by kishimoto. If you want to start considering this crap canon then you better consider this piece of garbage novel canon too. if you don’t, don’t try and argue with a filler novel. Canon sakura gave sasuke his space in 699 when he asked for it to come to terms with himself.

You mean sakura blushing? The thing a sane fucker would consider she is embarressed to tell her kid about her intimate relations with her dad? If i asked my mom such a thing her arab ass would slap me, get familiar with it: some cultures are conservative. Kishimoto said seeing naruh*ina kiss made him embarrassed so what you getting at. Sakura: never seen ur dad wear glasses lmao but he aint around so im not sure. Naruto: lol yea he never wore em.

You: OH MY GOD HE KNOWS HIM SO WELL OH MY GOD

You: out of context panel saying they are connected by fate

Do you REALLY want to play that card? This card makes your house of cards blow 50 shades of destroyed.

You mean how they were chosen by fate as brothers to end the cycle of hatred started by Indra, Ashura and Kaguyas ninshuu ignoring ass?

CONTEXT motherfucker ever heard of it

when kiba asked why he did not take him down and it was revealed why through slight dispositions, best thing about eidetic memories is that you dont forget this shit

Sasuke felt the need to apologize to her and regain her as part of his life and you are discrediting the scene like it does not have 2 pages in the manga yet hold on to a blurry ass panel of him protecting naruto to save the world

Anyways lets finish this bullshittery with showing ON PANEL who sasuke cares about

What? Thought it’d be only Naruto? Lol no I love canon sasuke enough to acknowledge all of his bonds. I am a sinner, guilty as charged shit sasuke cares about more than one person how awful.

Anways i’d LOVE to see your next reach, use better manga panels next time I like mentally stimulating things not sad scrapes of dead arguments

P.S your abuse jokes are STILL fucking bullshit

never trust a str8 bitch

#sasusaku #pro sasusaku #not tagging as anti sns #sns critical #anti sns fandom

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eisa96 · 8 years ago

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So, I make this post to discuss the potential that Sasuke and Naruto are indeed in a very unhappy marriage. (It’s not a potential on Sasuke’s part. It’s already been shown to be a dysfunctional family no matter how much the SS fans want to claim otherwise) This post was inspired after I read a post from somewhere in tumblr that opened my mind to start writing about this and also my observation on the Boruto Movie (yes, I am late to the fandom since I have an inner turmoil to watch or not to watch the movie that has been said to be a sns movie to those who have watched it, but I made the decision to give a shot much to my reluctance).

Warning, this is going to be long. And once again, this is merely my observation on this movie. So, umm, you’ve been warned. See under the cut to know more about it.

It was rather interesting to say the least. Finally watching the movie, here are the observations that I’ve seen so far from it:

- Boruto is in his rebelling age where he has a hate-love relationship with his father, Naruto. It’s very common for kids to act on their own accord when their parents are not around to give them the proper affection and care that they desire, hence causing them to have an impulsive behaviour. This can be seen throughout the movie when Boruto talks badly about Naruto and mocking him not having parents when he was younger, thus the bratty trait is born.

- Boruto did have a warm family, having a young sister that adores you, having a mother that cares for your wellbeing and having a family that loves you the way you are but the only downfall is the absence of a father; someone that he can look up to, someone he can admire and be proud of, someone to talk with. He hasn’t have that, evidence that Naruto is too busy with his ‘work’ to even have a time for his supposed happy family.

- The other point is this isn’t the first time it happened. Boruto beforehand warned Naruto to not miss his daughter’s birthday and got rather angry when it turned out that his dad is using a shadow clone as a replacement to place him instead. Why I said this isn’t the first time? Well, from the close-up photos of the Uzumaki-Hyuuga household (I don’t like stating that), it can be shown that Naruto also didn’t attend Boruto’s birthday, leaving the three of them celebrating the day when Boruto was born without yet the father by their side. And it gets sadder from this. Think about it, why did Boruto make his way in warning Naruto in the first place? Why isn’t Hinata, his wife that people keep saying that she is an understanding person; did anything to make this all better? Defending her husband when she knows that he was in the wrong here not the son. Why didn’t she make the effort to talk about this with her supposed beloved husband? I can only think about two options; one will be that she did talked about it, only to be brush by Naruto by exclaiming he was tired, being a Hokage is a tough job, promising he will not do it again and etc or two; she didn’t since she was shown to be on Naruto’s side more than her own son. I can bet on option 2 because I can’t seem to see her having the guts to talk about the matter. THESE EVENTS HAPPENED A LOT OF TIME IN THE PAST AND IN THE PRESENT.

- Naruto is not been shown to be a shitty dad. He was shown to be this miserable and guilt-induced person. He was not the same cheerful, optimistic person like he is in the manga before the corruption that is chapter 699-700. He looks tired, his shoulders are sagging, his posture is bad and the way he talks isn’t as bright as he used to be. This is the same person who dreams to become Hokage, the same person who wanted to be acknowledge by the villagers, the same person who has made speeches about love, and the same person who understood people’s feelings more than he can consumed. And yet, he looks like as if the whole world is on his shoulders. This present Naruto Uzumaki isn’t the same as he was from the past. He is avoiding his family. I repeat. He is avoiding them. Every time, he was involved with them, he looks guilty, knowing quite well that he fucked up. He’s aware of that and yet he did it again and again without any explanation. It was shown that he is also taking energy drinks or vitamins. (I don’t know what those brown bottles are but I bet it’s for boosting your stamina) He is in doubt, very tired with everything. He must have been in his office a lot of times, the fact that Shikamaru went and softly told his friend to go home to his family. Normally, when a person have a good life with his family, he would take that as a yes and went back home without second thoughts. But this Naruto contemplate about it and still was shown in his office even at night, muttering that yes, he fucked up again.

- And this is where the SNS fandom starts to say that the movie is SNS even though the movie focuses on Boruto thus the title. Sasuke second appearance in this movie is when he went to Naruto’s house to speak to him or just to meet him, only to be met with a sudden punch by Boruto himself and as always, manage to counter it with his hand, resulting Boruto in having that awed expression in his face. After finding out that Naruto isn’t at his home, he immediately starts to walk away and went to the Hokage’s mansion direction. This where all the moments took place.

- Sasuke picking up Naruto’s old genin jacket and bring it along with him to give it to the owner after seeing it on the ground battered and covered with dirt.

- Naruto catching the scroll with his hand like he was expecting that. In sync may I add.

- Sasuke and Naruto casually starting talking to each other and falling into a comfortable rhythm.

- Sasuke using his petname that he reserved only for Naruto; ‘Usuratonkachi’ in a soft and affectionate way.

- Naruto for the very first time been shown smiling, looking genuinely happy and refreshed.

- Naruto yet again, choosing to decipher the scroll that Sasuke gave to him rather than going home. ( a lot like when he would leave everything just to go together with Sasuke in a ‘long mission’)

- Naruto started to smile more when he is around Sasuke and acting like the Naruto that we love and knew.

- Also Naruto and Sasuke comparing who Boruto mostly look/act like, surprising me for a couple of seconds to even hear them talking about Naruto’s son as if he is their own. (okay, I stop there for a while before I get to them soon)

- Back to Boruto, he declared himself to Sasuke to be his disciple, in which Sasuke refused to do it if Boruto can master the rasengan. I can see him as a modern kid that cannot live without technology around him and a kid that follows new fashion trends. And oh goodie, look where we have here; Sarada stalking Boruto everytime he trains with Konohamaru in mastering the rasengan -_-. (Why is the colour of Konohamaru’s eyes are blue?? I thought it was between brown and black??)

- More bratty Boruto trying to bring Naruto down and prodding Sasuke to give him his dad’s secrets, in which case, his weakness. It’s weird how Boruto approaches Sasuke about this matter and not his mother. I mean, shouldn’t Hinata knows about Naruto’s everything, from his strength to his weakness?? Boruto must have approach her first or he didn’t thought about it since his mom defends his father more than she could bargain with. It was sort of looking at a role reversal here. In this movie, Sasuke was been implied to be protective of Naruto, telling Boruto that instead of wanting to know his father’s weaknesses, he should be focusing on the present Naruto, showing once again that Naruto is very dear to him and he is indeed in fact knows more about Naruto than anyone else in the entire world. It’s the same as in Gaiden where Naruto is the one who talks and reassures Sarada about her father (papa?). Talking so highly of him and knowing him better when he told her that Sasuke didn’t wear glasses when he was younger and that she looks a lot like him. I figure that much because this is Kishimoto’s writing and we all know how he feels about these two.

- Hinata is been shown irrelevant in this movie, even though she was supposedly Boruto’s mom. It was shown yet again, that she needed to be protected even though she is the princess of the Hyuuga clan and is also a skilled ninja. (I hated that term) Fainted and got injured when she tried to save Naruto (how would you suppose to do that?). Even Sakura is been treated much better than her, showing how she can protect herself, saving people’s lives and healing them along the way. Even she was written better except that part where she got blushy when Sarada tease her about the coming back of her absent husband (Sakura no). I don’t know about you but Kishimoto is being very intentional writing Hinata like this. She is also been shown to be selfish, only caring about Naruto when her own flesh and blood son can get killed in this retrieving the Hokage back mission. Did she forget about her son cheating on the Chuunin exam? He could get killed from this. She could just stop him but no, she didn’t. Instead she stayed behind, praying that Naruto will be safe and sound and also her son too but mainly Naruto. Boruto is a genin. He is in much higher risk than Naruto. The chances of him getting back are low if it wasn’t for the other Kages and Sasuke at his side.

- Sasuke and Naruto are soulmates. That much can be seen in the movie. When everyone is looking rather defeated, Sasuke seems to be very calm about it. Only to be revealed that he can sense Naruto’s chakra even from miles away, confirming that Naruto is very much alive. Sasuke catching Naruto and placing his hand on his back. Naruto noticing Sasuke first then Boruto. The boys fighting side by side and very in sync with each other. Naruto knowing how to use Sasuke’s sword without fail. (He must have been with Sasuke or have a spar with him for him to know to use to sword so flawlessly and without any difficulty) Naruto once again smiling when he’s with Sasuke and that goes to the other as well. Both them having a calm conversation even after battling the villain (can’t remember the name) while watching Boruto making the final blow. Let’s not forget that Naruto goes in rage when he caught an injured Sasuke in his arms and started attacking the enemy without giving a second thought, only to be calmed and looking relieved when Sasuke places his hand on Naruto’s arm, silently communicating that he is okay. Everything about the whole fight scene suggested that yes; Sasuke and Naruto are like themselves when they are around each other. I’ve never seen Sasuke been this happy before. He was all smiles during this scene. He playfully banters with Naruto and to get the same receiving end from the other. They were happy and so comfortable with each other that it left me in tears. They were themselves. The Sasuke and Naruto show was back again.

- Boruto got the good treatment from people around him since he helped finish the villain (I’m having the déjà vu vibe) and also got himself to live broadcast. I’m sitting here like ‘Wow that was fast..’ Didn’t he cheat on the Chuunin exam? Didn’t he get disqualified from being a Chuunin? Didn’t Naruto just straight up said to his face that he isn’t worthy in becoming a ninja? He is been treated like a hero here even though he didn’t have that much of a recognition. Sounds familiar? But then again, this is Konoha we’re talking about so it’s fine. (sarcasm)

- Naruto is back home with his family and HInata (sigh) once again been shown sewing something that turns out to be Boruto’s torn jacket. Naruto fist bump him when he is running to the Hokage’s mansion and Boruto going on a mission. The end credit rolls.

To be honest, this whole movie is from my point of view is a big family drama between Naruto and Boruto. When one pulls, the other one pushes. One is keeping everything together while the other is falling deeper and deeper into his own self. The one who pull the two together, yes you guess it; Sasuke Uchiha. He’s the one who brings the two of them closer without even realizing it. He acted more like a parent to Boruto than his own father. He approaches, he teaches, he disciplines him when no one will and could. Not HInata. Not Naruto, who is guilty with all the things happening to him. Sasuke’s the one who give Boruto the spirit to save his dad back. It’s very interesting and telling if you watch it without the shipping goggles and also without the judgement.

This is where my conclusion lies which I wanted to discuss with all of you.

Naruto is not happy with his family. Same goes for Sasuke.

The reason I’m telling you all this is because this is bothering me ever since I watched that movie.

Especially on Naruto’s part. Why is it he feel guilty in the first place? Why is it he’s been showed to be unhappy with his family? Why is it that even though he becomes the Hokage, he isn’t very happy about it anymore?

All the movie ever shows us is that Naruto isn’t very happy with his life.

The signals are there in the observation that I’ve made above:

- Naruto is seen in his office most of his time.

- Boruto warning Naruto to not forget about Himawari’s birthday in which he fucked up, not only to not go and celebrate her birthday but instead send a shadow clone to be his replacement.

- He was seen feeling guilty about it, slumping behind his desk.

- It’s been implied that this isn’t the first time it happened. It happened a lot of times.

- Hinata stopping Boruto from going to Naruto, showing that she have dealt with Boruto’s bad behaviour a lot of times.

- And also possibly raise the kids mostly alone, judging from the way Boruto acts around his dad and Himawari having seen pretty upset about it.

- Naruto contemplating to go back home or not, only to decide the latter because of a scroll.

- Naruto is tired, that much is self-explanatory. He just looks so tired.

- Naruto been showed to not know how to properly congratulate his own son on his success in getting into the second round.

- He’s awkward around him.

- He doesn’t know how to deal with Boruto. (What happened?)

- The atmosphere of the household is just so lonely. It just screams unhappiness.

- Even though it was shown that Naruto did go back home, he might do the same thing again in the future.

This is from the movie but I heard there are hints in the Naruto Gaiden as well that this family aren’t the ideal family that NH fans claim it to be. Take it with a grain of salt but I also heard from the Boruto manga that it just confirms that Naruto is in fact having family problems.

I don’t have to go on Sasuke’s part since it’s rather plainly obvious in the eyes that the family isn’t healthy. The dynamics are all over the place and the three of them have little interaction even if it was shown that Sakura is there with Sasuke watching the view before the end song credit. (Or is it after?)

He acts like he usually does around Sakura, expressionless. At this rate, Sasuke could see her more like an acquaintance than a wife. He was all smiles in this movie but why is it hard for him to smile around his wife? He even smiled around Boruto during the fight scene and looking proud of the kid when explaining about his unique rasengan. (This isn’t Kuroko no Basketball. Rasengan can’t just disappear and came bite you in the ass when it approaches you from nowhere. You know what, never mind.)

Masashi wrote the movie as if Naruto and Sasuke‘s salvation is around each other. They both look extremely comfortable around each other. Both are very in sync during the battle. Both of them acted like themselves when they are around the each other. Both are very protective with the other. Again showing that they are indeed soulmates in any way possible. Is it intentional? Or is this pandering to the fans?

Both I guess since he wrote the two of them rather in character when they are around each other and as much as I hate admitting it, I enjoyed watching it.

This is where I’m gonna say that Naruto and Sasuke might be in a secret relationship. As I mentioned before, Boruto seems to be trying to keep the family not falling apart. He’s angry, he’s cold towards his father and he was also so confused on why his mother defending his dad so much. On the other hand, Naruto. Naruto isn’t trying anymore. He looks as if he wanted to leave all things behind and just go somewhere far away.

That’s the impression I’m having towards the Boruto!Naruto. Whereas Sasuke only be shown around Naruto and Boruto and less with Sarada and Sakura, his family. His own flesh and blood. Why it is that Sasuke and Sakura doesn’t look remotely like husband and wife and that Sarada is so chill about it. (She must have known something. She can’t just forgive and forget on the things that her father did to her and her mother.) I can just say that Sasuke and Sakura aren’t married. In fact, it looks more like an arrangement. And before you could deny the possibilities, I just wanted to say that yes, the SS family is also a one big family drama.

Masashi didn’t confirm who Sarada’s real mother is, even though all signs points to Karin. (That super strength ability can’t just come from nowhere. Sarada seems to have it by genetics and we know that super strength came from the senju/uzumaki clan. Sakura isn’t born with it. It took her years to finally learn the jutsu.) In fact, he wanted to leave all the imaginations to the fans. Why would he do that? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say that Sakura is the real mom? Why the confusion? Again, this is just to create drama, to pull fans back for nostalgia’s sake, which it went backfires when fans are angry or just not buying the Gaiden books and bullshit anymore. All it ever shows us that Masashi isn’t even trying anymore. He’s showing us how SS isn’t working and shows how shitty Sasuke is as a dad and a husband. He neglected them for 12 years. Didn’t keep contact with Sakura even with letters and appears to be surprise in having a child. Not to mention, Sakura taping her face on a team taka’s picture, only to be found out by Sarada herself and being questioned about it. Sarada is a smart child. She is curious and a little bit mopey. She is bound to suspect something sooner or later if they keep this facade up. The only thing keeping this family not apart is Sasuke stating that because they have Sarada, they are a family.

It’s the same as Naruto’s and Hinata’s situation. The only thing that’s keeping them together is Boruto.

And then there’s the SNS relationship. It was been revealed that Sasuke kept in contact with Naruto through all these years. Writing him letters to inform him about things. Naruto even go so far in wanting to go with Sasuke on that long mission in Gaiden, proving once again that he’s willing to leave everything behind and looking rather sad when Sasuke rejected his offer because he wanted Naruto to protect the village as a Hokage. Naruto also defended Sasuke’s incapability to charge his phone because he has things to do, saying to Shikamaru to cut him some slack.

They could also be meeting in secret since in the Boruto movie, Naruto could use Sasuke’s sword without any difficulty like he’s used to it. They also have a normal conversation. No strains, no awkwardness, no tension. Just two men having a calm conversation after not meeting each other for a long time and allowing themselves to be them. You can’t deny that Sasuke and Naruto love each other more than just a mere friend. They are more than that.

They smiled a lot when they are around the other. Both of them gave the soft, fond look whenever they are near with each other. The kind of look you give when you are with someone that you are comfortable with. The kind of look where you are with someone that you like and fond of. The kind of look where people in love will show around their significant other.

That kind of look.

Does this look like a normal bromance to you?

People keep denying when the SNS supporters said that Boruto shat on NH/SS ship, they really meant it. It was all there for people to see. People keep saying that the SNS fandom is delusional and only care about their ship being canon and are in a romantic relationship. Some even go as far as saying that Boruto is about fixing the relationship between Boruto and Naruto, claiming once again that Naruto and Sasuke’s relationship as brotherly. (Naruto already deny Sasuke as his brother, what more do you want?)

If it was fixing the relationship between the father and son which I do agree with this one, but then again; who fix it?

Like I mentioned before:

The one who pull the two together, yes you guess it; Sasuke Uchiha. He’s the one who brings the two of them closer without even realizing it. He acted more like a parent to Boruto than his own father. He approaches, he teaches, he disciplines him when no one will and could. Not HInata. Not Naruto, who is guilty with all the things happening to him. Sasuke’s the one who give Boruto the spirit to save his dad back.

Sasuke Uchiha. That’s who.

I’m sorry if this got too long, I was about to say my thoughts about the movie only but then my mind and my body just move on its own.

Like I said from before, please feel free to discuss about this. I really wanted to hear your thoughts and opinions on this matter.

#sasunaru #narusasu #sasunarusasu #sns #anti ending #anti boruto #this is longer than I thought it would turn out to be

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mrm64 · 3 years ago

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hello! i know it's a bad idea to engage in any shipping discourse but for the sake of constructive criticism, i asked an sns shipper if she thinks there's atleast potential in ss if ever sakura had that capacity to stand up to sasuke and if she wasn't as much fixated on him during shipuuden and the war arc. i even brought up the wasted opportunity of sasuke vs sakura that was shown in the game. the sns shipper gave a very structured and well-versed answer and i do agree with some of her points. i'm not even anti-sns and i understand the support this ship gets. but this person really hates sakura. so her answer to my question if ss has potential is straight up NO. hate is an understatement. she explicitly said she DETESTS sakura and ss xD. granted, her hatred is valid since sakura's writing is very flawed and inconsistent. what i didn't like was when she said why am i trying to change sakura's personality (her standing up to sasuke whether physically or verbally) when "she's constantly on heat when he's around". gosh, i really wanted to retaliate here and say it's called freakin character development. i mean, that's what she's mainly hated for right? the fact that she's obsessed and a pushover when it comes to sasuke. having that change especially during the war arc doesn't mean she's out of character, it means development. but gah, sakura haters are really hard to argue with so i just stayed silent.

to briefly summarize, her main point of argumentation is that sakura was toxic to both naruto and sasuke. sasuke's relationship with naruto is more defined than whatever he had with sakura. she brought up ss's pt.1 moments and said that sasuke would do the same to naruto, if not even better. as for naruto's case, sakura was a mean bitch and was so unfair to him throughout the series. simply put, even if sns has questionable elements, they are more organic and healthy than sasusaku.

this got me thinking. between sasunarusasu and sasusaku, despite both having toxic elements, i think the reason why there are relatively more sns shippers is because there's balance. compared to sakura, sasuke has shown more consideration towards naruto and we all know naruto cares for sasuke just as much and he isn't afraid to stand up to this guy.

idk what i'm even trying to ask here. i guess i'm just ranting lol. i've always seen your comments in youtube vids defending sakura and ss and i know you have an extensive knowledge of the naruto manga in general. you could only imagine how shocked i am when i found out you're a male. it's really rare to find someone like you. :)

anyways, i just feel so disappointed and pressed lmao. ss shippers couldn't catch a break from haters. like yea, some of us know it has shit writing in the canon and explanations regarding their relationship in the series is very limited. i already accepted the fact that they are underdeveloped and was borderline toxic. but then, between kishimoto's pitiful inability to write female characters properly and SP's biased treatment towards sasusaku plus the manga's main narrative focusing on naruto and sasuke, i just feel like it's kinda unfair for antis to shit on ss shippers when in reality, most of us just hold onto it because of nostalgia. most sasusaku shippers came to be when they were very young. i even found comments saying they started shipping them when they were 6 or 7. in my case, i was 12 lol.

it's kinda unfair since sns has the upperhand bcoz the series is mainly about them. naruhina has retcons and SP and what does ss have? small pt.1 moments, headcanons, fanons and to top it off SP's biased ass shitting on it. the ss fandom isn't perfect and has its fair share of immature stans as well, but i'm still glad that didn't stop authors and artists from making content. ss has got some of the best fanfictions, fanarts and doujinshis. i just wished antis won't attack them as much.

anyways, i'm not even asking a specific question. i just ranted. i just needed to get this out of my system. sorry for that 😅

Hey! It's been a long while since I got asks like this lol! Once tumblr went all anti-nsfw a few years ago, we all kinda migrated to Twitter for our SS/Anime cravings tbh but I'm glad and flattered you decided to ask me on my thoughts! :)

I won't write long as again, tbh, I'm kinda retired from debating/arguing with antis on things of SS/Naruto/Etc (unless I'm simply too triggered to let it go lol. You've already probably seen my long Sakura video so I won't go too much into details of what I already covered with Sakura's character. But to answer you, I'll keep it to the point.

It's ok of course to say Kishi's writing is flawed, I mean he is human and we know Naruto has holes. Every manga/story does of course. When it comes to SS, I personally bring it to this: Sasuke and Naruto's relationship is NOT Sasuke and Sakura's relationship. And that's (imo) ok. Sasuke and Naruto obviously have a bond only they have. Both lonely and orphaned, rivals with each other, haters to brother, you know it all. But Sakura is different. She's simply a normal, head-strong and caring girl. Kishi wanted to write a normal girl, and he did a darn well good job, because just like normal girls (or people in general), they're imperfect. That's why she first appealed to me.

Anyway, to the point, SS is pretty easy to follow. Sakura likes Sasuke....what's the problem? Where's the toxicity, lol. Sure she fangirls over him as a 12 year old girl, but again, Sakura is normal. Most girls I knew that age did the same thing. Most BOYS I knew were super...*cough* ready to be with girls (*cough cough*, puberty, everyone, *cough*). Sasuke is cool and confident. Sakura lacked confidence, so naturally she was drawn to Sasuke. Sasuke at first found her annoying (as he did with Naruto too) but as the became a team, she bonded. SS' bond is NOT NSN's bond. SS's bond is built upon a simply caring basis. Sakura always cared for Sasuke, and Sasuke always was protective of Sakura. Forest of Death, Sand Invasion, etc...add in the angst of Shippuden (nobody can tell me one was better than the other during Shippuden, Sasuke was 'bout to axe everyone while in darkness lol), blank period bonding, and then Boruto. There it is in SIMPLE terms.

As far as "standing up" to Sasuke...not sure where this person is coming from....again, NSN is NOT SS....Sakura has stood up to Sasuke at times. In the FOD where she indirectly called him a coward, when she pleaded with him to not fight in the Prelims and threatened to tell the proctors of the curse mark, trying to stop him from leaving Konoha., etc. If she was a "doormat", she would have said "Ok Sauske, you do whatever you want, it's all ok my love!" That was chapter 3 Sakura. A LOT of haters can't move beyond that chapter tbh...moving on. The main thing is, she wasn't STRONG enough to stop him by FORCE. She wasn't written to. Sure I woulda liked some angsty moments of them fighting, TRUST ME, you already know. But Kishi wanted the fighting to mostly be between Naruto and Sasuke, as most battle Shonen go. It's Goku and Vegeta, Deku and Bakugou, you name it. She was written to LOVE him unconditionally. And despite Kishi's misses here and here, it's clear as day to many people that they do indeed, love each other. Sarada is a product of years of redemption, forgiveness, and understanding between SS (which is....literally some of the themes of Naruto....Zabuza...Haku...Gaara...Pein...Obito....list goes on...).

And of course Naruto and Sasuke's relationship got more spotlight. They're essentially the Shonen "duo" like I explained before with Goku and Vegeta. It's a common tope which can be a bit annoying imo since other characters get shafted, but they're gonna be seen more by the public. At the end of the day, Kishi modeled NSN after his relationship with his BROTHER....that was one of Naruto's main story plots. AGAIN, OF COURSE it's gonna be pushed and seem like it's more "balanced"...it's a battle Shonen, not a love story lol. The love stuff is sprinkled in. This isn't a Shojo. If it was, SS would be the main focus (or...I guess NSN if Kishi WANTED to go that route).

So to finish off, you're right with the SP thing. But it can't be helped. If people wanna say NSN has more "development", let them. At the end of the day, they're shown more to the viewers because they're the Goku and Vegeta of Naruto. They push the narrative, not a romance. They're Kishi's go-to boys. They're the essential main character and rival. It's nothing new. But you know what else? They're. NOT. A. COUPLE. SasuSaku is, and again, romance is SPRINKLED in. It's N O T a Shojo and not the main focus. Honestly...the arguments that NSN shipper used are a bit weak knowing full well that SNS represent Kishi's brother and himself.

I mean...tldr, I could just say "Kishi and his bro are Naruto and Sasuke. SO nah bro, NSN has no romantic development. I wasn't meant to lol."

Typed longer than I thought, but I hope this helped! At the end of the day, ship SS in peace. We have an amazing fandom for the most part with wonderful content and we ain't stopping anytime soon :)

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