#kdj is a little shit

[justaravingwritingdesk]

rereading orv, i can totally see kdj being an annoyance on purpose and on accident to yjh

yjh literally went from trying to kill kdj to just watching to see if he'd live or die to trying to keep him alive cuz he keeps running toward death

also kdj collects anomalies like candy, from ysa (olympus's incarnation) to lgy (forgotten evil's incarnation) to jhw (judge of evil + absolute good) and they're all super attached to kdj and hostile to yjh in different levels

not to mention how kdj stole one companion and killed another and is in the process of corrupting the only one he has left

kdj also has uriel wrapped around his pinky and lots of important constellations plus the dokkaebis in the palm of his hand so yjh really can't off kdj unless he's able to handle the backlash

and let's not forget kdj's mom who totally wants to kill yjh for being a “bad influence” on her son when in yjh's pov it's the other way around???

tl;dr is that kdj is a chronic pain in yjh's ass

[xiaohuaaaa]

orv feeding time again 🥰🥰🥰

[runningoncaffeine]

One mistake I made when reading ORV for the first time was taking Dokja’s words at face value.

When the shitty idiot(affectionate)dismissed his trauma, assumed he understood the other people and their feelings I took it as he said. What he said I believed.

Now that I’m rereading, I realise just how much of an unreliable narrator that little bastard(very affectionate) is!!! Like I now know why Heewon did what she did! Lock that bastard up, I get you completely now Heewon sweetie. Yup, yup, he needs to get socked a few times in the head

[plumilia]

cardcaptor dokja!!!

[everyones-least-favorite-bard]

thy will be done.

[mhaynoot]

okay did i miss something but why is kdj described as being a shit cook in fanworks so often because the only times i remember him cooking was ground rat which was a decent meal and the herbal medicine he shoves into yjh's mouth but thats herbal medicine and it always fucking sucks ass

[deimos-the-wolf]

I love how Kim Dokja weaponizes the hell out of his innate talent to piss people off

[pttucker]

Okay, so, I've been thinking about some of my more recent posts and have started to combine them with some of my older posts and think I've come up with another theory that I want to throw out into the wild while we've still got like 40% of the novel left to go.

Well, actually it's not really a new theory for me per se, but I think I've finally cemented it whereas in the past I've had vague suspicions. Which has resulted in another giant post.

tl;dr: there are three stories in the novel, with the novel itself being Dokja's story and I think by the end Dokja will realize that he's inside ORV itself in a sort of Neverending Story kind of way, the Fourth Wall is between him and our world (and maybe also him and TWSA), and that the true Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint belongs to us.

So, anyway, I recently made a post about Han Sooyoung being the author of TWSA and overall I think this current arc we're going through right now is another major allegory / foreshadow for how the characters relate to TWSA, just like the Peace Land arc. But thinking on it some more, I think this arc (and possibly also Peace Land) is also showing how they relate to ORV itself.

Like, I actually even specifically said that certain passages relate to the overall plot of ORV such as this one—

Regrettably, there was no guarantee of the work ending up as a success even if the author did an excellent job. – Time to start our attack, Yoo Joonghyuk. Because the ones to complete the story were the 'Characters', not the author, that's why.

—and I think by taking that just a tiny step further, in combination with other clues, ORV itself will end up being almost a Neverending Story type of deal. Not necessarily with Dokja trying to talk to us like Sebastian and the Childlike Empress, but literally just realizing that he's a character in a novel.

Which is something Dokja has technically already realized, and maybe even unconsciously accepted, not only because of the above passage where he lowkey calls himself a character but also because he's seen that he's listed as a character when he messed around with the Fourth Wall (more on that later) and we have no idea if he recently became one or if he's always been a character and didn't realize it.

Unrestrained questions flooded my head. Why did I get this story here? What was the relationship between that story and being called a character? Was I now a character or was I still a reader? I… Was I still able to change the future?

However, I think the big reveal for Dokja is going to be not that he's a character but that the novel is not TWSA but instead ORV.

In fact, I know I've been using "TWSA" as kind of a shorthand for the world that Dokja is now in, with the scenarios and Joonghyuk and such, as compared to the "real world" he was in before as a company worker, but technically speaking TWSA is not Dokja's story. He is not inside TWSA. TWSA still exists as a completely separate text that he has access to and every time he looks at the revisions of TWSA they are still Joonghyuk's story. They go all the way up to the 1863rd round, and while Dokja is in the TWSA revisions, that's because Dokja is a part of Joonghyuk's story in the third round.

And speaking of the revisions, I kind of breezed past this in the tags of another post but Dokja got the Final Revision immediately after thinking to himself that he wants "an author" to tell him that he did good, that it's all going to work out in the end, that he's made the right choices. At the time I thought that perhaps Sooyoung could be the author of the revisions but now I don't think so anymore.

Going back through the text, the First Revision appeared when Dokja was dying in the Industrial Complex and he wanted to read TWSA to try to figure out if there was any sort of hope to fix things without having to ruin his story by killing innocent people. (And honestly he wasn't in any shape to kill people even if he wanted to at that point.) The Second Revision came after he abandoned Breaking the Sky Sword Saint to fight the outer god alone and felt like crap because of it (to be fair she shoved him through the portal while he was still trying to convince her to come) and he and Joonghyuk had a mini-conversation about what to do after and all Dokja could think of is to just keep struggling as best they can.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that all of the revisions have come when Dokja is at an extremely low point, floundering, trying to have someone tell him what to do, tell him that he's made the right choices, etc. Except not once has he actually said anything to anyone in the story around him. He didn't actually end up asking Sooyoung if he did the right thing; he wanted her to tell him it's going to be okay but he only thought it. Just like every other time the revisions have appeared. Almost like they came from someone else who can see what he's going through right then and knows he needs a little help...

Also, back when Sooyoung's version of the story first appeared, I was a little confused by the (First) after it, thinking that maybe Joonghyuk only had the first part of the story, but then later we see that Joonghyuk has 『Han Sooyoung – Records of the 1863rd turn (Last)』.

So now I don't think Sooyoung is writing the TWSA revisions, even if I do think she wrote the original TWSA, and I think that her story is also getting revised as she changes it because she is also a character in which "the ones to complete the story were the 'Characters', not the author" applies.

And speaking of the stories, I kind of went off on a sort of three, three, three tangent in the Sooyoung post, but I realize now that that can be taken even further. There's three unknown beings still left in ORV (Secretive Plotter, Oldest Dream, TWSA's Author), there's three protagonists in both TWSA and ORV, there's three people involved in a novel (Reader, Writer, Character), and there's three ways to the survive the apocalypse. Which, TWSA lists those ways as Regressor, Returnee, and Reincarnator.

But, technically, aren't we also seeing three ways to survive the apocalypse right now? Joonghyuk's way in TWSA, Han Sooyoung's way in her diary, and Dokja's way in ORV itself. Not to mention, now that I think about it, we have Regressor Joonghyuk, Returnee Dokja, and now Reincarnator Sooyoung...

Three separate stories, all sort of TWSA but not technically, more like they're all different versions of the same story. And the dokkaebi's have recently started talking about "which story will you choose" (talking to Bihyung btw, who's been helping Dokja all this time...) and everyone else in ORV keeps going on about a Single Story and how they're all vying for their true story and ending. And how maybe the true story/ending has finally come. Because this particular timeline is going through Dokja's story...which is ORV.

And too when I had the post about the "failed stories" I wondered if maybe it was foreshadowing for ORV ending in tragedy (and maybe that's still true) but also now that I think about the "failed stories" and how both Sooyoung's story and Joonghyuk's story could be considered the "failed stories" in a loose way. Granted, we don't currently know how those stories actually ended since ORV started off with Dokja waiting for the epilogue and the 1863rd ending was disrupted by Dokja, though Dokja has been pretty heavily implying that at least TWSA ended in tragedy up to the epilogue. And with the Single Story it's possible that all three of them will end up combined in the end of ORV itself.

Especially since we don't know what happened to 1864th Joonghyuk. It's possible we may see him again at the end of ORV. Also, I just realized that Joonghyuk stopped being a character when he moved past what was written in his personal story but, atm at least, he's also past ORV's story since we haven't seen him since and Dokja has no way of knowing what's going on with him.

On the topic of endings and epilogues, Dokja has been less and less willing to read TWSA as he starts living his own story and has finally outright said that he doesn't think his epilogue will be in the file. And, yeah, if Dokja's story is ORV then his epilogue would be ORV's epilogue. And ORV does have one. Even though I don't read the chapter titles ahead of time due to spoilers, I did notice when I looked to see how many total chapters ORV has that the last one had the word "epilogue" in the title.

And that's not even getting into Dokja casually stating that the novel is a lie. Which is very interesting.

And of course, there's the infamous moment where (while Dokja is sleeping I might add) the Fourth Wall starts telling the 1863rd Joonghyuk Dokya's story and it literally starts reciting the opening passages of ORV itself. And I'm pretty sure that when Sangah shoved him into it, he once again saw Dokja's story (ORV) just due to the fact that he zeroed in on not just Secretive Plotter, who doesn't appear in TWSA, but specifically all the things Secretive Plotter did in regards to and with Dokja.

In fact, as Dokja messes around with his Fourth Wall more and more, it becomes more and more sentient and present in Dokja's story (ORV) and he starts seeing things that perhaps he, as a character of ORV, was never meant to see, such as the fact that he's a character or that the Fourth Wall goes from simply blocking mental attacks to narrating Dokja's actions, reflecting his thoughts, etc. Just like ORV does for us readers.

I've actually briefly contemplated in the past that perhaps the Fourth Wall isn't necessarily protecting Dokja from the elements of TWSA, but in fact protecting him from the outside world (relevant part quoted below)—

Oh man, what if that's what it means by Fourth Wall? Instead of Dokja being a real person and the Fourth Wall existing because he knows he's not part of the novel, what if he's a character and the Fourth Wall is actually the barrier between him and the real world where the author lives? In which case, the being behind the Fourth Wall could be the author (or the reader!) of Dokja's story.

—and I then later began to wonder if it might be our world and not just some random third world inside the story of ORV, and I really do think that's the case now. Or it could be both! If I'm reading a comic about Batman who's reading a comic about Spider-Man, both I and Batman have a Fourth Wall between us and the fictional world we're reading about, ergo Batman has a Fourth Wall working both ways. (Ignore past Marvel/DC Comics team ups, pretty sure those aren't considered canon lol.)

And this is not only because of the fact that the Fourth Wall is acting more and more like a narrator (or like the third-person text of ORV) but that Dokja reacts so poorly to it going down. Sure, the first time the Fourth Wall went down a million constellations tried to attack him so that caused him issues, but later when he took down a little bit of it for the giants he was in a place with only his most trusted constellations who didn't seem to make any attempt to attack him and he only opened it up a teeny tiny amount and yet he still was physically wrecked. I don't think that he would be that affected by now by the elements of TWSA, especially since he literally learned he was a character and was freaked out for a moment but didn't have this big world-ending crisis...like he might if he attempted to connect to our world. Also, Dokja still hasn't gone back to the idea of using ORV on himself...

And on that topic, I know that I've kind of joked before that Dokja is the most oblivious person ever for someone who also happens to be able to read various characters' minds and see their actions, but honestly speaking there are tons of parts of ORV that are from other POVs that Dokja has never and likely will never see. I actually started tracking them about a hundred chapters back and we get a different POV, even if it's just a few paragraphs, almost every third or fourth chapter. And they're all from the third-person POV, just like how the Fourth Wall speaks.

Meaning that the true omniscient reader's viewpoint is ours.

PS: a very weak "clue" that I'm not really "officially" including is also the fact that The World After The Fall is mentioned as a book that Dokja has read and that's a real webnovel written by the same authors as ORV. I'm not really counting that since I do understand the concept of a cheeky little cameo but it could still be fun to at least acknowledge the possibility that it's something that secretly indicates that Dokja is maybe a little more connected with our world than any of the others.

PPS: I think if I find time this weekend I'm gonna go back through at tag everything or make a list of all my posts or something. Trying to find links for this majorly sucked and I just kind of gave up at points lmfao.

[metanarrates]

kdj is so seemingly unfazed by shit most of the time (thank u 4th wall) that it's really awesome to see him get upset over 41st shin yoosung and beat the shit out of a dokkaebi in righteous anger. on a lot of levels it makes sense (shin yoosung is a character he loves in a novel he loves, and it's his passion for that novel that makes the whole damn story work, so of course he cares about how unfair her death is) but to me it's also a sign that he's getting more involved. sure, he's been living in the world of the scenarios, but since he still thinks of it as the world of a novel, its tragedies don't touch him in the same way.

but shin yoosung is different. not only is she a character he likes, but he's been teaching this round's shin yoosung as his protege for several days now. he's started to get attached to her on a personal level. without even noticing, he's started to take the relationships he's built in this world more seriously. there's a child depending on him! it doesn't matter quite so much whether that child is a "character" or not.

[shinobi98]

Least favorite trope:

Character has a meaningful and well thought-out, very emotional fight against a powerful enemy that helps fleshing them out, further their story and is generally a very satisfying fight that leaves them completely spent and unable to fight anymore.

After the main character arrives to witness the aftermath, said enemy recovers/transforms so that they're back in the ring and the main character can finish them off, effectively wasting everything the side character did until then. All for the sake of giving one more win to the main character.

[arytha]

I asked her, “What are you looking at?”

“A novel.”

“Your novel?”

“What other novel would I look at?”

Indeed, it would be strange to read other novels under these circumstances.

“I always wondered, is it fun for a writer to read what they wrote?”

“It is very fun.”

“Even though you know all the details?” I actually asked without thinking but Han Sooyoung gave me an unexpected answer.

“I sometimes feel that the story is different despite reading the same thing.”

“What?”

“A writer doesn’t have complete mastery of the novel. There are many holes whenever I look back. In the end, reading is the process of keeping the irregular holes in place.”

“I really don’t know what you’re talking about.”

“…It means that after some time, I can see it as someone else’s writing. Ultimately, every human is their own writer.”

The words were unexpected and I felt surprised. Han Sooyoung was able to say such a difficult thing.

I told her, “Come to think of it, you are like that. You really wrote someone else’s novel.”

Han Sooyoung yelled something back but I blocked my ears for a while. Who told her to plagiarize in the first place?

i am 100% with han sooyoung here. writing really is an exercise in keeping everything glued together

[qifrei]

The specific genre of isekai where the reader the hater supereme of the orginal novel speaks to me. For unknown reasons

[gffa]

AS A REMINDER, this is how Yoo Joonghyuk and Kim Dokja last left off--with KDJ lying his ass off about being a “prophet” in this new world (because the truth is so much weirder and more dangerous) and YJH was like, “I believe you.” and then--

DROPS HIM OFF THE SIDE OF THE BRIDGE RIGHT INTO THE MOUTH OF A GIANT SEA MONSTER WITH ONLY A “IF YOU’RE REALLY A PROPHET YOU’LL FIND A WAY TO SURVIVE” So, understandably maybe some hard feelings there, just a little. Also a whole lot of “This guy really could kill me if I piss him off.” WHICH MEANS NATURALLY NEXT TIME THEY MEET IT’S GOING TO BE EXPLOSIVE AND WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH PROPERTY DAMAGE WILL HAPPEN AND KIM DOKJA IS PISSED AT YJH BECAUSE HE’S NOT TAKING CARE OF THE EVIL FUCKERS HE’S SUPPOSED TO BE TAKING CARE OF AND SO IT’S GOTTEN KDJ INTO A MESS THAT HE NEEDS HELP OUT OF AND THIS IS GOING TO BE SUCH A SHITSHOW WHEN YJH SHOWS UP AND--

THE DYING WHALE LAUGHTER I LET OUT AT THIS MANIPULATIVE LITTLE SHIT’S FACE HE NEEDS YJH’S POWER TO SCARE OFF SOME ASSHOLES AND NEEDS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THEY’RE FRIENDS SO HE JUST-- LOOKS AT THE GUY WHO MAY WELL KILL HIM IF HE BREATHES WRONG WHO THREW HIM OFF A BRIDGE INTO THE MOUTH OF A GIANT SEA MONSTER WHO ANNOYS THE UNHOLY SHIT OUT OF HIM THE GUY WHO EVERYONE IS SHIT-YOUR-PANTS TERRIFIED OF AND GOES “:D :D :D HIIIIIIII~ LONG TIME NO SEE~” KIM DOKJA IS AN UNHINGED LIAR WHOSE PANTS ARE CONSTANTLY ON FIRE AND I LOVE HIM

[orphiclovers]

I love the fact kim dokja's first impression upon meeting secretive plotter was 'this guy has completely lost the plot' but we don't find out this little tidbit of information until 188 CHAPTERS LATER because I guess he didn't think this was relevant enough to mark upon until then. iconic really, but when I tell you that when I read 'I got this impression the first time I met the 'Secretive Plotter' as well as 999th turn's Uriel, that… These people, they were clearly out of their minds.' I was shook to my very CORE. completely changed my perception of sp and all the rest and is one of those lines that has echoed in my head for these past months. but honestly I love how little kdj gives a shit. he's like yeah all these people are unhinged but eh who isn't amirite lol

[orviposition]

I find it so so SO funny that kdj saw persephone appear like yjh in front of him and thought to himself "thankfully she isn't also wearing a chinese dress" wtf my guy 🤨🤨🤨 why is your weakness the imagery of yjh wearing a chinese dress????? care to explain??? autocorrect won't save you in a verbal conversation you little shit

[runningoncaffeine]

I’m just gonna go on a fucking rant, might make zero sense but I have to get this out of my system.

Fourth wall right….let’s all gather and sit around, head bowed, hands under our chins, deep in thought about this shit right here

KDJ says that the Fourth wall makes it so that he perceives reality as separate from fiction of stuff that was mostly related to TWSA.

Yeah, makes sense.

Just think of this…we know that 4thwall protects him from the effects of ‘fiction’, grounding him in ‘reality’ and helping him make calm, sound, rational decisions. We also know that the Wall shakes and thins when faced with said ‘reality’

Now, here’s another thing we know about Dokja—he likes to see everything through a reader’s eyes, viewpoint if you will

One of the first things we find about him interacting with others is with Sangah and he immediately puts her into a story and gives her a role. He’s been doing this shit since before the scenarios and the apocalypse and all. So we can assume that he’s done this like almost all his life, being the ‘reader’ and seeing others essentially as characters—until they interact with his little bubble.

As it would happen, the people who interact with him and his bubble aren’t exactly very welcoming or nice most times but that aside, here’s what I’m rambling about

If you think about it, the first attributes and skills people get are related to what they were already good at and stuff

So fourth wall is essential a powered up version of KDJ’s dissociative tendencies. It’s a coping mechanism.

Him being a ‘reader’, not intervening in anyone’s story, only reading and forming opinions

Because the last time he played a major role and defeated the villain, the consequences weren’t pretty and he didn’t get the happy ending. Even after his mother ‘reread’ it to him, the ending wasn’t one he liked

The pre-apocalypse version of 4thwall (and his generally tragic life) kept him from being anything more than a ‘reader’ to other people’s lives

But this is not going to be satisfying at all —we know it, Dokja knows it, 4thwall knows it—Dokja craves to be something more than a ‘reader’

But his life is realism, he prefers fantasy novels. His story is a bore compared to the other ones he sees

And “it’s not too bad, being a reader”

Can’t we say that the 4th wall was protecting him from reality than fiction? In his mind, he’s always seen life as stories, whatever genre they were, they were always stories and the fourth wall kept them as stories….

*sighs heavily* yeah, this isn’t going out of my head anytime soon…just Dokja and his trauma….excellent…