#orv reread

[orphiclovers]

Yoo Joonghyuk be honest. you imprinted upon Kim Dokja like a baby duckling didn't you.............this is really embarrassing, you look desperate. And it's exactly this naive, exploitable trust in very shady strangers that got you betrayed by Anna Croft 200 times!!

It's their 'first real conversation' and Yoo Joonghyuk's already traumadumping about his dead ex wife. WHY would you TELL HIM ALL THIS, I THOUGHT you were supposed to be repressed! you're coming off too strong! this is the opposite of repressed, he's leaking depression and sadness everywhere - lowkey an ick if I was in KDJ's position but to each their own...

And then.

UGHHHH whatEVERRRR in a moment of weakness he seeked out Lee Seolhwa hoping for comfort and familiatity and understanding and was rejected violently. And yet instead of being left alone and adrift, here he finds Kim Dokja saying, 'I understand.'

And that's so important for him to hear in this moment.

'Understanding' is what every single character in ORV seeks, yet by Kim Dokja's own admission here and and throughout the novel we know YJH never recieves it in TWSA. His biggest damage is loneliness and having no one to share his pain with. That's why it shakes him so deeply to be offered these words that he has always yearned for. And Kim Dokja knows this of course, that's why he says them.

Then, Yoo Joonghyuk assumes this is 'the power of a prophet' which does NOT bode well for how this situation must have gone in TWSA without Kim Dokja there. If after having his ties severed with Lee Seolhwa he later tried to find this understanding and comfort in Anna Croft, 'the prophet' being indirectly referenced here, it makes sense why he kept returning to her despite her betrayals.

No wonder, as she would have been the only person who remembers their history (no matter how hateful) and could be said to be the same woman that he remembers in the previous regression (which is what he stated he wanted from Lee Seolhwa). This is the power of a prophet that Kim Dokja is borrowing - he plays Anna Croft's role to Yoo Joonghyuk.

Like, of COURSE yoocroft kept coming back to each other, they could have never escaped each other's gravitational pull as the only people in the universe going through the same thing (until Anna Croft lobotomizes herself and leaves him behind for good that is).

...And then YJH tries to backpedal by saying 'no I still think you're bad you kidnapped my sister' like brother who are you trying to fool it's SO over for you.

[freyadragonlord]

Secretive Plotter's reveal scene is so fucking funny in hindsight just.

He comes in all dark and serious. He roasts Joonghyuk for wanting to save Kim Dokja and abandoning his resolve to hate all Constellations. He claims he's going to use Dokja for his own goal and then expose him for what he really is.

Sir. Sir you'll have like two (2) conversations face to face with Dokja before you become so attached you'll clumsily try to protect him and reveal your weakness for him in front of a dangerous enemy.

Sir you'll take one (1) look at baby Dokja and that will be enough for you to give up on your millenia-long search for revenge forever. Dude. My guy.

[just-a-fragment]

Honestly I feel like being spoiled in orv is probably the true way to read it. Like I think I did a pretty good job avoiding the spoilers as much as possible, but I feel like knowing what's going to happen to Dokja at the end, would just cement the ending message of the novel, like it would make you genuinely want him to have a happy ending. It's kinda like rereading in a way

Like you hear what happens to this snarky, a bit of an asshole, average guy, and it kinda feels justified at first but then you see that almost everyone who finished the novel is so affected and just wishes to bring him back, so you continue reading, you already know what happens but it doesn't hit you until you're actually reading those sentences. You know the end but you can't do anything until you actually get to the end and it finally clicks why everyone reacted that way, why everyone wants to bring him back, wants to believe that he's back, to give him a happy ending

[insomaniacat]

orv spoilers

thinking how it could be entirely possible that the only canonical reason jang hayoung is trans is cuz kim dokja is living in his younger self’s dream and when he asked tls123 to introduce a new protagonist he wanted them to be a girl (even tho tls123 made jang hayoung a man 😔) so jang hayoung, another character who can be considered as ‘a result of the story’ is trans because of the oldest dream’s will which also sort of ties into that very long question of singshong portrayed throughout the novel of what makes a person ‘not a character’?

[runningoncaffeine]

One mistake I made when reading ORV for the first time was taking Dokja’s words at face value.

When the shitty idiot(affectionate)dismissed his trauma, assumed he understood the other people and their feelings I took it as he said. What he said I believed.

Now that I’m rereading, I realise just how much of an unreliable narrator that little bastard(very affectionate) is!!! Like I now know why Heewon did what she did! Lock that bastard up, I get you completely now Heewon sweetie. Yup, yup, he needs to get socked a few times in the head

[reader-writer-protagonist]

I paused re-reading for two reasons (though I think I’ll go back to it now). One is more logistical which is that I’m rereading in Spanish to practice but Two is the real reason. Orv hurts my heart.

I keep thinking about how tragic kdj is.

I’d love to hug him and tell him it’s okay to receive love but I can’t. And even if I could I know it wouldn’t reach him. He’s a character who’s only ever felt love through sacrifice and only ever experienced value through what he could do for others. The way he latches onto yjh is indicative of his struggle with self punishment.

He can’t help but love and hate and root for this bastard protagonist who keeps dragging himself through more and more cycles. Although yjh didn’t choose that life himself (that he or kdj knows of for the majority of the story, obviously we find out about regression 0 but that’s neither here nor there) yjh puts his all into completing the scenarios. His twisted world view and just trying and trying and trying again and again.

Kdj talks about how yjh is giving up on timelines when he regresses and he’s not wrong but I also think it’s important to note that yjh could’ve succumbed to depression way more often. He could’ve only done the basics of the scenarios and lived in the outskirts like a lot of the side characters we only see briefly. (Especially after that combo event with Japan where it was voluntary) But that’s not in his nature and that’s why he’s so appealing to kdj.

Someone trying so desperately and failing and trying again just trying to survive. Just like kdj. Gritting his teeth through school and shitty jobs and crap superiors. That’s who kdj looks up to, resents, idolizes, and ultimately was raised by. So it hurts when I know kdj doesn’t know any better. He’s only had fucking awful examples at how to receive love. To be thanked. To be cared for. To be pampered. To be worried over. To be so damn treasured that others are willing to burn everything down just to see your stupid blurry smile once more.

Yjh and kdj are foils in the most obvious and excruciatingly painful ways. But yjh turns to look at kdj. To really look at him and changes. He sees this impenetrable wall and fights to get through. Rough and brash and without tact because how else would someone like yjh do it? Even when there’s a crack kdj covers it up with another layer. Layers upon layers that kdj doesn’t even let us see through. Why must he go through all this isolation and pain? Because he chose it. Because he knows no different. And it makes me cry because as much as I understand and sympathize I can’t bring myself to accept it.

[king-of-a-kingless-world]

not metatron just casually handin out 30000 coins

b- bro. i. uh. ahshagsga. yes sir 🫡. anything fo u dokja kim.

hahahah

:((

DUMBASS. god i fucking hate him

AS SHE SHOULD THIS DUMBASS SUBJUGATED A KID TO THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF ISOLATION ALSO KNOWN AS THE WORST FORM OF MENTAL TORMENT AND FOR WHAT? SO HE COULD GET A LITTLE LUCKIER EARLIER ON? THAT MAN IS AN ASSHOLE AND THE WORST AND I HOPE HE DIES MULTIPLE GRUESOME DEATHS

NO NO DOKJA DONT JUST LET HIM DIE JUST LET HER KILL HIM

AFYZYSFAUSTJXKTCTISRUAQUFUG 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

OH SHEEEET

ok the thing about this is up to this point theyve basically only referred to eachother using their full names, first+last but here joonghyuk only calls him dokja and it gives the vibes theyre close enough to refer to eachother like that so...he cares no denying you cant hide from my perceptiveness i can see everything

BROOOO HES TRYING TO HOLD HIM UP NOT LET HIM FALL OVER CUZ HES GONNA DIE AND DOKJAS JUST GRABBING ONTO HIS ARM AND ITS NOT INTENTIONAL ITS INSTINCT AND AHSHAHSGS SO MANY WORDS THEY DENY IT BUT THEY CARE AND DOKJA WAS PROBABLY DIGGING HIS NAILS INTO HIS ARM CUZ HE KINDA IS MISSING HIS ENTIRE LOWER TORSO AND EVEN WITH FOURTH WALL THATS GOTTA BE SO PAINFUL AND YJH JUST IS FINE WOTH IT AND DOESNT CARE AND HES WORRIED ABOUT HIM AND SNAJSJWJSJDBSI

bro he has a giant hole where his stomach should be

also i thought you hated and wanted to kill him

THIS JUST SHOWS HE CARED THE WHOLE TIME BECAUSE HE KEPT TRYING TO KILL HIM BUT THE SECOND DOKJAS ACTUALLY GONNA DIE HES ALL LIKE NO NO NO NOT TOO LATE EVEN THOUGH DOKJA LEGIT DOESNT HAVE A LOWER TORSO AND THERES NO LOGICAL WAY FOR HIM TO SURVIVE BUT HES STILL IN DENIAL HED ONLY BE DENYING IF HE CARED AHAHAHAHHAHAHSBWHABSH

dude he looks so scared for him im gonna cry 😭😭😭😭. like hes looking him in the face with the most terror ive seen for him i cant wtfffff

no shit

never seen him so angry he even has the glowy main character eyes ✋

bro there aint no way he wasnt in love w dokja cuz he was perfectly fine with letting seolhwa die even tho he like dated her last regression and here he is only having spoken to kdj a few times and ready to fucking kill everything for him

YEA YEA UHUH HED PISSED CUZ YOU KILLED THE GUY HE WANTED TO BE HIS BF YEA YEA JOONGDOK CANNON THESE BITCHES GAY THEYRE ANNOYING AS ALL HELL AND THEYRE GAY

[lazyrunawayphilosopher]

After two or three re-reads of ORV the signs of Dokja being MAD becomes clearer after each read. The foreshadowing starts with this part:-

(from chapter 170) and later on in this part too:-

(from chapter 339) Snow always falls at unusual times, specifically when Dokja reads the revised version of WOS and also during the epilogue. So MAD's train and ORV happens in the spaces between the worlds since they are described at snowfields. When 15 year old Kim Dokja came across WOS in the hospital while recovering from his suicide attempt and his coping mechanism became creating a world from this novel he loved so much. After kimcom went through the final wall they found a 15 year old Kim Dokja but that's not KDJ's literal younger self. It's his ego (could also be called inner child ig). After the 999th group takes little KDJ, the split happens (49 and 51) and then while 51 becomes Joonghyuk's sponsor in the 0th turn and then watches the rest of the regressions and his stories are broken apart to such an extent that when Kimcom comes to rescue him they see the child version of MAD, who they have seen before. Kimcom takes that Dokja while there are million other fragments of MAD in other worlds. ORV is a loop. WOS was real as Dokja wished. He read the book and then became MAD to see it become reality but the book came to be because Han Sooyoung wrote it. In other words , the beginnings lead to an end and the ends lead to new beginnings.

[luxaofhesperides]

the fact that ysa still sticks w him even after he says this so casually... theres something wrong with both of them (affectionate)

[orphiclovers]

Can't believe bihdok is having sex on screen and the dynamic is 'ruthless blackmailing suave dom kim dokja' and 'reluctant virgin bihyung' Singshong WHAT were you smoking

[freyadragonlord]

Something about how at the beginning of Omniscient Reader’s Viewpoint, we are meant to see the villains in the writers and readers of the Scenarios – aka the Dokkaebi and the Constellations.

And sure, they’re definitely dangerous, and often malicious!

Yet as time goes on and we get to know more about them, we realize that just like incarnations killed other incarnations because they wanted to survive, Dokkaebi and Constellations also don’t have a choice, because they need consume stories in order to live.

More than that. As the Scenarios go on and on, some of those Constellations and Dokkaebi turn into allies, and honestly likeable characters!

Because they love the story.

When you love the story you are writing, you cannot help but wish to do well for your characters, to give them the ending they truly deserve.

When you love the story you are reading, you cannot help but want to engage, to cheer the characters on, to see them reach the ending they want!

At the same time, as the novel progresses, we get to find out who the real villains of the Star Stream are: those beings who look at the Scenarios without caring, uninterested in the incarnations’ happiness and indifferent to their suffering.

It’s the Myth-grade Constellations, watching passionlessly from the safety of the Ark. It’s the Dokkaebi King, who pulls the string of the Scenarios to create the Narrative he thinks is most “right”, not one he wishes to see.

They do not love the story, and they only engage with it when their own self-interest is at stake.

Fast-forward to the end, when Kim Dokja’s Company go to meet the Oldest Dream.

As they ride the subway there, they speculate that the person responsible for all their suffering is the writer of Ways of Survival.

When Dokja finds out the truth, he thinks that he, the reader, was the villain all along.

But it takes Secretive Plotter one look at the Oldest Dream to realize who are the real culprits of his own – and everyone else’s – tragedy.

After all, they are there in that subway station, too.

It’s the people who saw a child who was clearly suffering, and did nothing to help him. The bruises on young Dokja’s arms and face were not covered, they were right there for everyone to see. The way the Oldest Dream cowers and shakes when he’s scared, it’s not subtle.

And yet, nobody moves a finger.

Because they do not care. They are indifferent to his suffering.

The reader was not at fault, because he needed the story to survive.

The writer never had a choice, because she loved the character and his story.

But those who watch passionlessly and refuse to engage, unless their own self-interest is at stake… Those are the people responsible for all of the world’s tragedies.

[windcalling]

there are people (over a hundred of them, per karma points for resurrection!) that dokja saves when he doesn’t have to, especially notable being lee gilyoung and jung heewon, but i think han sooyoung at the coin farm is the first time he explicitly draws a line of “I will save this person On Purpose even if it would be easier not to”

and then they continue an argument about cliches, of course. because they (both would say ‘regrettably’) are vibing on the same wavelength instantly.

[birdstime]

delaying my inevitable third reread of orv by simply never finishing the second reread. haha. the epilogue can't tear me apart if i don't read it

[iienvyuu]

orv has changed something in me, i am no longer the person i was when i started it years ago and i never will be okay again.

on that note i'm rereading it !! <3

[king-of-a-kingless-world]

URIEL WHY ARE YOU HAPPY ABOUT THIS THIS IS BAD NOT THE TIME GIRL. BESTY THEYRE FIGHTING ITS MARITAL QUAREL ITS NO BIEN

shmols

AAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHH

i could go on a huge rant for the million reasons i hate his mom but for my own sanity i just wont.

(made sense why u killed ur husband but dont write a book and publish it if it effects your kid without their permission bitch, and if your kid is traumatized bc u dont expect them to act like your their mother hoe)

OOF OH UH OK UHM MMMMM HAHA OKKKK THEN OUCH OH MY JESUS HEH. so what ur saying is i shouldnt trauma dump to those who have good mothers?

NO HE DONT. LIES. MISUNDERSTANDING. BRO MANS AROACE AS FUCK. AND GAY. BROOOO. NO HE DOOOONT

right thats what the protection symbols were for, i thought hed use them later on for smthn else

heewon. dont start a shipping war with your constellation. AND DONT START A SHIPPING WAR WITH ME THOSE TWO ARE STRICTLY PLATONIC

yes they are yoosung ☺️

didnt he abandon her in the labrynth of worlds for thousands of years? and hes more humane just cuz he doesnt bring her to a scenario where other ppl are killing? something shes already seen? bro. yjh is worse. stop saying your not humane. u are. dumbass. YJH PUT HER IN A PLACE THAT DROVE HER INSANE TO THE POINT SHE WANTS TO KILL EVERYONE. YOUR JUST TRYING TO HELP HER THROUGH THE SCENARIOS. BRUHHHH

HOLY CHRIST HIS STATS ARE SHIT HOW ARE YOU ALIVE?!??!?

TEN COINS OH MY GOD NO-

so teeny 🥺

YEAH GO YOOSUNG

WOOO

congrats to yoosung for absolutely MURDERING some grown ups all on her own 😁

awwww tiny yoosung

[reader-writer-protagonist]

Comments on ch3

When Bihyung starts exploding people like crazy and gives his little villain monologue

I forgot how scary bihyung was at the beginning. He really did see them all as ants. Exploding people left and right on the subway if they weren’t letting him speak then talking about they had it easy and now they have to earn their existence. They are nothing to him and he’s genuinely so powerful but we forget because he’s so cute. He’s silly. He’s regularly pulled into kdj’s chaos and is flailing about in worry. At first for himself and getting in trouble and later for kdj, his favorite incarnation.

Also the Spanish translation that I’m reading has the line

“Oh money, good. A vegetable fiber that many humans agree on”

Vegetable

I find that infinitely more funny than plant fiber and it made bihyung feel more silly again

Also also because I’m reading in Spanish the line where ysg says that the series of “&아#@!&아#@!” sounds like Spanish had me cackling.