#kataang salt

[valariecomet]

Honestly seeing (mostly kataang and maiko shippers but not just them) say ppl need to move on from what Bryke did with book 4 air makes me genuinely mad.

When I first started watching the show I was basically bullied out the fandom for drawing Zutara fanart. I was either 11 or 12 at the time and it was during 2020. A bunch of people older than me were mocking me for my fanart, not even because it was bad (not that if they did it would have been justified) no, because it was of a ship they like. I was called a whole bunch of colourful names and slurs and got accused of some horrible things just for liking Zutara and it did affect me.

Now, imagine 12 year old me finding and watching Book 4, do you think that just because that was in 2008 it didn't affect me? No! Of course it did! If anything it made me feel worse, so much so I left the fandom for two years and I only got back into ATLA when I was 14, even then I have only recently started engaging with the fandom again. Just because it occurred in 2008 doesn't mean it doesn't affect people now and I'm sure I'm not the only kid who has been discouraged by that video. If you were a kid at the time or not, the video can and has had an affect on people.

Also, it's not like Bryke were kids when they did that, no, they were full grown adults using children's fanart to mock them. It was disgusting and the fact they have never apologized, as far as I know, is gross. It doesn't matter how long ago it happened because it happened and still affects people, I don't think people should be forced to move on just because you believe that it isn't a big deal or it was ages ago so they should be forgiven. If you don't care that's fine, but don't try to force people to feel different to how they feel.

If your a Zutara shipper who's fanart was in that video, I am genuinely so fucking sorry. That is horrible and I can't imagine how it could have affected you. I know if I was in your situation I would still be upset about it to this day because of how discouraging the video was. I know your probably not reading this but if you are I feel for you.

Also I'm writing this after trying for about two hours to complete the gosh darn pachinko machine level in super Mario sunshine so if I sound a bit emotionally charged it's because I have just spend the past two of so hours in agony ✌️

Edit: I forgot about the Azulaang and Tokka scenes in the video since I hadn't watched it in ages, you guys too I'm so sorry, that was so cruel for you guys too.

[firelxdykatara]

Was watching sneezys video on K/A v Z/K and wondered slightly off tangent why you (and ill admit that I) never took redcrackle as a red herring pairing? Was it just preference for enemies to lovers or ? Is it because they have meat to them that seems it actually might resolve in a romantic fashion (if xyz reasons and behind the scenes wasn't in the way)?

Prt 2 of the sneezy x rc because to clarify i always wondered why being like they are (not having the same values and always having to leave each other instead of coming together) didn't make you see it as a k/a or m/z?

So I actually answered an ask similar to this quite some time ago, though the framing was a little different--I was asked if I agreed that red crackle was maiko 'done better' and my answer was kinda wordy but I think it boils down to this:

I think a big part of it is that Carmen Sandiego started out giving you the sense that these two characters genuinely loved and cared for one another in the 'childhood friends' portion of their past. ... The thing about maiko is... it was entirely one-sided from the very beginning. Shippers will sometimes try to sell you on them being 'childhood sweethearts', but they really weren't--Mai had a crush on Zuko, to which he was oblivious,...

...

Gray and Carmen, on the other hand, were established as rivals who quickly became best friends over the course of their year in school together. They clearly cared deeply for one another, and Gray was just as upset as she was when Carmen failed their final exams ... They didn't see each other for three years (incidentally, the same length of time between Zuko's banishment and meeting Mai again), at which point they were enemies, and yet Gray was clearly upset at the prospect of having to hurt her.

...

Carmen and Gray both grew as characters separately and together--Mai never grew at all, being the exact same person in her last appearance as she was in her first, with the same beliefs and no indication that anything about her worldview had changed, and this is especially egregious when she was paired as a love interest with the character who arguably had the most dynamic growth throughout the series.

Ultimately, my problems with maiko (and kataang) were never that the characters involved had diverging morals or goals, or that they spent significant portions of time separated--those are things that could make for juicy romantic development if given adequate time and page- or screen-space to grow and add to the tension between them until it eventually boils over. The real issue is that neither of these ships actually sold me on the mutual development of their romantic feelings or relationships.

And actually, maiko and kataang both share the problem of one-sided interest being established and nothing being done to make the journey from unrequited to requited love seem believable for the characters who did not originally share these feelings. Aang's crush on Katara is abundantly clear from the beginning of the show, where he hatches from his ice egg and imprints on the first girl he's ever seen in his life like a baby duckling. Katara is entirely oblivious to his interest in her even when he tries to act upon it (take the Cave of Two Lovers, for example, where they kiss to light their way forward and Aang seems flustered and clearly wants to talk about what just happened, but Katara seems to feel nothing except relief and excitement that their plan worked and she can now find the way out), until quite late in the series when, after Aang rather aggressively projects his own feelings onto her, she suddenly seems to reciprocate. Likewise, it is established in a flashback that Mai had a crush on Zuko, but there's zero indication given that he ever noticed her feelings, much less returned them (which makes sense given that he was ten years old at the time and she was his sister's friend and helped to torment him), and no care or attention is given at all to his feelings towards her in the present until suddenly they are dating at the start of book 3.

Then with maiko you have the added issue of nothing ever being done to resolve their stark differences in worldview. At the end of The Boiling Rock, Mai turns on Azula to save 'the jerk who dumped [her]', not because she suddenly realized she was wrong and the Fire Nation needed to change. And at the end of the show you have evidence that Zuko had completely forgotten about her (despite the fact that he could quite possibly have thought she died defying Azula to save his life, and never once seems to think about her again afterwards), and they just... get back together. Because reasons, I guess. Because Mai says 'I guess I kind of like you' and that's supposed to be a good reason for two people to get back together despite none of the things that made their relationship untenable in the first place having changed.

On the other hand, Gray goes through an entire arc on the show after getting his memories back where he comes to realize that working with VILE was not worth losing Carmen, and it wasn't worth Carmen losing herself. And while you could certainly make the argument that at the end of the day he was still saving Carmen because he loved her (however you interpret that love; I personally view it as romantic but obviously the show did not choose to make any specific Carmen-centric ship canon in the end), not because his own moral center had shifted away from the villainous, I would counter that taking a stand against VILE was a clear indication that he had discovered something that was worth more to him than his criminal inclinations. And there was actually a relationship there to serve as a foundation, plus the obvious potential for him to join Team Red in the future and use his skills for good rather than evil.

I have always been a proponent of the redemptive power of love, incidentally. I think that one of the most beautiful forms of redemption is choosing to change because of love, because the act of falling in love and recognizing that love is inherently transformative. Because love changes us and makes us want to be better versions of ourselves. (Or sometimes worse, I do love a good corruption arc too but that's a different topic.)

But the thing is that I ultimately need to believe that love exists in order to buy its power to redeem. I never saw any reason to believe Mai and Zuko were in love beyond very surface-level indications of attraction and an otherwise shallow relationship where they never seem to connect on any deeper level--and not for lack of trying on Zuko's part, here is an excellent essay about their lack of emotional intimacy. Carmen and Gray, meanwhile, had a close friendship and deep emotional bond which persisted through Gray's forced amnesia and that changed him enough that he let Carmen go and then took steps to get her away from VILE after they captured and brainwashed her, branding himself a traitor and risking imprisonment or death to do so.

You can't just skip the part where the story shows us how and why a couple are in love or might have fallen in love and then try to convince me that they are and this isolated moment of sacrifice embodies it. You've gotta put in the work! And atla ultimately fails to do so for either of their main canon ships. (Zutara on the other hand..... but that's another essay. Cough.)

[ladyelainehilfur]

Kataang isn't a bad ship, they're just boring and aggressively mild mannered.

[firelxdykatara]

And the issue with this too is that Bryke don't even realize that's what they portrayed, which tells me they didn't do it on purpose and that makes it especially galling!

Like, when asked about Aang as a father the response was (paraphrased, I don't have the source off hand) 'oh Aang wasn't that bad, Kya and Bumi were just jealous' and it's like... really? That's what you're going with? These 50/60+ year old fully grown adults are still stewing about petty jealousy over their younger brother getting taken on a couple airbender-exclusive trips as kids to the point where it's colored their perceptions of said childhood their entire adult lives?

And the fact is that this reading simply isn't supported by the text! If Aang 'wasn't that bad', why didn't he ever even once mention that he had other children to the Air Acolytes who practically worshiped him? Why did Bumi feel the need to apologize to a statue of his dead father for not being born an airbender and then say 'I hope I made you proud'--not for anything he had done or any accomplishment he'd made, but because the universe had randomly gifted him airbending? If Aang 'wasn't that bad', why weren't his other two children included on ANY of the trips he took with Tenzin, including to Ember Island, a place with no airbending significance but a great deal of significance to the gaang as a whole and their adventures? And why didn't he think it important to teach his other two children about fully half of their cultural heritage? Were they not every bit the Air Nomad that Tenzin was even though they could not airbend?

And frankly, the way the three k/a kiids are treated in LoK--Kya is Water Tribe because she's a waterbender, Tenzin is Air Nomad because he's an airbender, Bumi is cultureless because he's a nonbender until he becomes an Air Nomad when the universe gifts him airbending--is so at odds with the themes of the first series that it almost seems like it had to have been deliberate, but then the question is... why? Why make a whole show about the importance of unity and hope in dark times and striving for peace and love over division and hate, and then have the kids of the fucking avatar in the very next series act as if their culture is entirely predicated on their bending status? Which is an especially bad look when the entirety of the first season of said series centers around the oppression of nonbenders and it's very weird how these two streams are never allowed to cross. (Because, again, I suspect it was not at all the intended message. I think Bryke are just that bad at storytelling that they never thought through the implications here.)

"Why do you want to make a deadbeat dad out of Aang?", "Aang wasn't a bad father, he was just flawed!"

No one said this to me personally, but those or similar claims I read coming from people defending Aang and his actions towards his non-airbender children.

The thing is: I and many A:TLA fans don't want to make a deadbeat dad out of Aang. And for the flawed-thing: where do people draw the line?

I draw the line when the non-bender son apologizes to his father's statue for something he had no control over. Because he felt his father's disappointment, likely more than once in his life.

I draw the line when an air acolyte—one of the persons who are supposed to know everything about Aang's life—doesn't know that her messiah has more than one child. That means Aang never, ever talked about his other children. Wanna prove me wrong? Then show me other air acolytes later on in the same episode who indeed know about his other children and love the stories Aang, as a proud father, used to tell them about Kya and Bumi. And his soulmate Katara...

I draw the line when a father, who barely sees his other two children and his wife who is supposed to be his soulmate, decides to take whole vacations with his one airbender son and neglects the rest of his family even in his free time.

So, no, I don't want to make a deadbeat dad out of Aang. The narrative did it. Bryke did it, and, as someone who loves Aang, I was pissed af. Cancel Bumi's apology, the scene with the air acolyte and the vacations, keep Aang travelling with Tenzin alone to the air temples as some kind of duty and show me beautiful memories of Aang hugging and playing around with his whole family, and I believe that he was just flawed.

The family portrait in which Tenzin was a few months old and didn't even show signs of airbending isn't enough evidence—none at all. You find those happy-smiling portraits in every happy and unhappy household (Pink's song "Family Portrait" comes to mind). I never read the comics, but heard they retcon the scene in Korra so far that it would only make sense if Kya and Bumi would have memory loss or dementia.

The Aang I know from A:TLA would've loved to pass on his culture to all of his children, airbenders or not. They don't have to be airbenders to learn about it.

Bryke are great world builders and artists, but no writers, they should let other people do the job. They are literally the only writers I know who refuse to learn from their mistakes, keep on retconning instead, and are defended by some people among the fandom for it.

And surprise, surprise: what Katara thought about it, if she said anything to Aang or if she just sat back and watched, wasn't even mentioned in the talk between the siblings.

TL;DR: Bryke decided to portray Aang's actions as a father and husband to the extent that it comes off as if he isn't interested in his non-airbender children and Katara at all. It isn't me and the other critics who want to portray him as a deadbeat dad, on the contrary: as someone who loves Aang, it pisses me off. A family portrait makes no difference, because it proves nothing. And neither do the comics. Either you manage to convey the message you want to send in this exact scene, or you miss the mark.

[the-badger-mole]

Clouds, Fog and Mists

The scholars and archeologists that Aang had been working with had come out of their museum basements and dimly lit studies with a wealth of Air Nomad histories and artifacts that had been lost during the war. Aang now had access to recipes he hadn't tasted in years, scrolls that gave historical context to the things he had just begun learning at age 12, and objects he had never seen, but was excited to learn the use of. At 22, he was just now learning that the Air Nomads had a variety of subcultures and customs he'd never encountered, even though he had visited every Air Temple that existed back then.

"Did you know..." became as common to his vocabulary as "hello" and "custard tart". Every day, he approached his wife with some new bit of lore he'd learned.

"Did you know that the Southern Air Nomads had a Festival of Remembrance?" he'd excitedly asked as Katara was hanging the laundry out to try. She was only half listening while she tried to keep Bumi, their nearly three year old son out of the basket of wet sheets, but she gave a polite hum of encouragement.

"For a whole week," Aang continued needing no further prompting, "no one was allowed to play music or speak. They even wore velvet over their feet so their footsteps wouldn't be too loud. Then, at the end of it, there was a huge party! Loud as anything with music and plays and games. I think I remember going one of those ending parties, but I didn't know about the vow of silence before it."

"That's fascinating, sweetie," Katara said, rubbing her heavy belly with a look of discomfort. She was seven months along with their second child, and this one was very active. "Bumi, last warning. Do not touch the clean clothes!"

"Okay, Mommy!" Bumi said before swatting at one of the sheets Katara had hung on the line. She sighed and turned to her husband.

"Can you take him?" she asked. "I'm tired, and I'd like to take a nap after I finish this."

"Oh," Aang said reluctantly. "I was going to have an afternoon session with the Acolytes. I'm dying to tell them what I've been learning."

"Aang, please?" Katara sagged tiredly, taking Bumi's hand and pulling him away from all her hard work.

"Alright," Aang sighed. "I'll watch him for a bit. Come on, Bumi! Let's go practice some air katas! I want you to be ready when your airbending kicks in!"

-:-:-:-:-:-

All Air Nomads were airbenders. That's what Aang had always been taught. He had to account for late bloomers, of course, but at age four, going on five, if Bumi was going to be an airbender, there would've been signs by now. Kya was a lost cause. She had started waterbending just before her second birthday, and despite the fact that her father was the Avatar, there was no chance that she would inherit the ability to control more than one element.

"Well, maybe it's not true that all Air Nomads were benders," Katara said with a shrug. "After all, not every Water Tribesman is a waterbender, and not everyone in the Earth Kingdom is an earthbender."

"It's different," Aang insisted. "The monks told me that all Air Nomads were benders because we have a unique connection with our spirituality." Katara didn't quite manage to hide her annoyance from him.

"Then explain our kids," she said. "Unless you're the first Air Nomad in history to have children with a non-Air Nomad, someone somewhere got something wrong." Aang went quiet after that. He had no response.

"Just because the Air Nomads may have had children with people from other nations doesn't mean that their children were Air Nomads," an acolyte named Qiao said. She was one of the most apt and studious of Aang's Air Acolytes, and they had spent many hours together pouring over the newly discovered texts. Sometimes, Aang thought that she had a better grasp of Air Nomad culture than even he did.

"I suppose....I suppose that's true," Aang said thoughtfully, taking a sip of his tea.

"The Air Nomads were mostly not monogamous," Qiao pointed out. "I'm sure there were a lot of Nomads who had understandings with their lovers from other nations. Especially among the Air Acolytes of the day."

Aang pondered that for the rest of the day. Then the next. Then the rest of the week before he finally approached Katara. He found her by the fountain with Kya and Bumi. Kya was busy making imperfect little shapes with the water while Katara was teaching Bumi how to put his hair into a warrior's wolf tail.

"You look just like your uncle Sokka," she laughed, pressing a kiss on her son's cheek. "I bet you'll be a great warrior just like him, too." That twisted Aang's gut uncomfortably. He cleared his throat to get Katara's attention.

"Hey, sweetie," he said.

"Hey," Katara smiled at him. "We're just about to have story time. Do you want to stick around for How Umiak Rowed Her Boat to the Stars?"

"Oh, um..."Aang shifted uncomfortably on his feet. "Sure. I was just...thinking of something."

"Yeah?" Katara raised her brow at him. "What?"

"I was just thinking of how all the Air Nomads were benders." Katara didn't bother trying to hide her disgusted snort or the rolling of her eyes.

"Okay, and?" she huffed. "Did you draw any new conclusions?"

"I can't have been the only Air Nomad to have children with someone from a different culture," he said. Katara stared at him blankly for a long moment.

"I told you that," she responded finally. "It's just now sinking in?'

"No, I understood you," Aang told her. He kicked at the ground. There was a loose pebble under his toe and he focused on rolling it back and forth. "It's just...well, the Air Nomads, they weren't strictly monogamous."

"Monogamous," Katara scoffed. "That's a big word for you." Aang bristled a bit at that, but he took a breath and let it go.

"I was just reading," Aang said with a shrug. "It occurred to me that maybe because the Air Nomads weren't monogamous, they just didn't bring their non-bending kids into the Air Nomad society." Katara looked up at Aang with her eyes wide.

"That's awful!" she said. "So because their kids didn't bend the right elements, they had to be cut off from one of their parents?"

"No, I'm sure it wasn't as bad as all that-" Aang started to protest.

"What exactly are you saying, Aang?" There was a dangerous edge to Katara's voice. A warning.

"Nothing, nothing!" he scrambled back, tripping over his tongue, trying to call back his words, and cursing himself for trying to bring up the subject without a plan. Katara eyed him coldly. She was angry and trying not to show it.

"It's time for lunch," she told her children. "Let's go inside and fix something to eat."

"But Mommy," Bumi protested. "I want to hear about Umiak!" Katara turned to him with a tight smile.

"That's okay, sweetie," she said. "I'll tell you while you help me fix lunch." With one last scowl at Aang, she took Bumi's hand and swung Kya up onto her hip and went inside.

-:-:-:-:-:-

Aang felt vindicated when it was discovered that he and Qiao were right. The Air Nomads would often leave non-airbending children with their non-Nomad parents. Sometimes the Air Nomad parent would stay with their non-Nomad partners and build a life with them and their children (something he made a note to tell Katara about). Then it was discovered that they were only partially right.

Some of the Air Nomads stayed and raised mixed heritage families. Some left their non-airbending children behind with their non-Nomad partners. That was expected. Reasonable, even. What Aang was not expecting, however, were the accounts of non-airbending children being given away. Some were adopted, and those adoptions were traceable through documents and letters. Others were sold. Those transactions were traceable, too. By most accounts, those children went into indentured servitude and many of them learned trades and were able to start businesses once their indenture was up. Aang tried to focus on the positives. Katara, however, was horrified.

"What right did they have to sell those children into...into slavery?" she demanded hotly while they were getting ready for bed.

"I'm sure it wasn't that bad," Aang insisted. "After all, the Air Nomads wouldn't have put children into situations where they could've been hurt."

"Yes," Katara sneered. "I'm sure their new owners were very gentle with their exploitation."

"That isn't fair!" Aang protested. "Do you know how difficult it would've been for those kids to live among the Nomads?"

"Probably about as easy as it's been for our kids." Katara glared at Aang meaningly. He felt his cheeks heat as he looked away, pretending not to understand.

Bumi was going on eight now, and Kya was five. They were both old enough to ask questions about why it was so difficult for them to move around their own home. Katara and the Acolytes had an easier time being adults and able to maneuver obstacles that short legs and small hands couldn't without help, but it was still a regular challenge to get around the Air Temple for them. Aang was in the process of building a complex near Republic City where non-airbending Acolytes could live and learn with more ease, but it wouldn't be ready for anyone to move into for another year or so. It would be safer for children with no airbending ability, too. Aang glanced over at Katara from the corner of his eye, at the soft swell of her stomach, already showing signs of pregnancy at her second month.

-:-:-:-:-:-

Tenzin was the last of Aang's children with Katara, and the only airbender. When he was almost one, he airbent for the first time, and Aang couldn't stop celebrating for an entire week. When Tenzin was two, the first of the burial mounds were discovered.

Archaeologists working at the mostly restored Northern Air Temple found it at the base of the mountain. There were several layers to the grave, suggesting generations' worth of use. Most of the bones were small. Infant and toddler sized. The largest bones were about the size of an average eight year old. The bones were all jumbled together, as if they had been tossed in a heap. Some of them wore the clothes they were buried in, but most of the bones were too broken to hang on to any frabric. There were also no signs of any shrouds or anything indicating that they had been given any of the customary funeral rites of the Air Nomads. The fact that they were found at the base of the mountain in itself was unusual. All the different groups of Air Nomads had their own unique funeral customs, but one thing that remained the same was that they were laid to rest as close to the sky as possible.

When the first reports of how the children came to be at the base of the mountain came out, Aang was certain it was the rankest propaganda. None of the Air Nomads, no matter how stringent they were about non-airbenders living among them, would ever harm a child. For a while, he seemed to be right, as all the proof was from secondary and tertiary sources.

"Lies the Fire Nation used to justify genocide," Aang said confidently.

"But how did the children get there?" Katara asked. Aang had no answer for her. Yet. There must have been a good one, though. Maybe a plague had run through the Air Temple, forcing them to bury the bodies at the bottom of the mountain to prevent contamination, or something equally tragic. Aang began talking to the archaeologists about giving the bones a proper burial as soon as they could be sorted. The count at that time was 700 bodies in the pile and there were still so many more to go.

A few months after that, the oldest of the Air Nomad accounts were uncovered. It went back a good 300 years, and it spoke about a surplus of infants born without the gift of airbending. There were too many to be disposed of the normal ways, and many of the non-bending parents were unwilling or unable to raise the children themselves. The anonymous monk wrote of a meeting to discuss the crisis. They wouldn't be able to care for so many that couldn't get around the temple, or travel with the Nomads. There was a food shortage. A water shortage. An everything shortage. So the head monk suggested giving the children to the air. That had been the first time the practice had been recorded, near as anyone could tell. But some of the bones were older than that.

That's what they called it. It sounded lovely. Poetic even. In practice, though, the babies were carried to the edge of the temple grounds and held in the air. A short prayer was said for the souls of the children, and then they just...let go. They were so high up, they probably couldn't hear the children hit the ground.

The public began to call them the Fog Children. They were babies born to Air Nomad parents, but without airbending abilities themselves. People clung to the term and it soon spread all over the world in hushed whispers. Aang hated it. Katara hated it. It was the only thing they could agree on by that time.

"It isn't fair!" Aang bemoaned. "It's like people are using it to justify the Fire Nation killing all the Air Nomads."

"If it bothers you so much," Katara said after she'd put the kids to bed, "then speak up! Condemn what they did."

"I do!" Aang insisted. He had protested, loudly that all of the Air Nomads shouldn't be judged by what one fringe sect did.

"Not just them," Katara said. "All of it. It's just like with the Fire Nation. Remember what Zuko said? You can't expect to move forward without acknowledging the past. All of it was wrong. The Air Nomads treated their non-bending children as if they had no value. Condemn the adoptions and abandonings and the selling of the children!"

"How is it my responsibility to make up for all of that?" Aang demanded.

"You're the only one left," Katara reminded him, trying to be gentle. "I'm not saying you have to call the Air Nomads monsters. They did something wrong. They were human. You can acknowledge that and commit to being better than that."

"How?"

"Start with your children."

It had been a frequent argument between Katara and Aang how Aang treated their children. Bumi was 13 now, well on his way to becoming a man. Kya was 11 and Tenzin was five. Often, Katara would quiz Aang on his children- what Kya's favorite color was, or the name of Bumi's best friend. Aang could admit that he was correct about Tenzin more often than the others, but it was only because Aang had so much he had to teach his youngest. Katara should've understood that. After all, there were things she did with Kya that she couldn't do with Bumi or Tenzin.

"It's not the same," Katara told him. Aang could never remember why, though.

For the next year or so, Aang spent much of his time doing damage control. He did his best to separate the practices at the Northern Air Temple and the particular sect of Air Nomad culture that grew around it from the rest of the Air Nomads. Every criticism of the culture was met sharply by Aang's rebuttals and justifications. Penning article after article espousing the virtues of the Air Nomads at large became his full time job, and obsession. It took him two weeks to notice that Katara had left with all three of his children, and another month for him to find the letter Katara had left in his bedside table telling him she was seeking a divorce.

He got Tenzin three months of the year. It was all he could manage, being completely unused to parenting alone. Aang taught his son what he could of airbending and the Nomad philosophy he could in that time, and did his best to ignore the people whispering fog children in the same breath as his oldest children.

[longing-for-rain]

The “Katara and Aang are both genocide survivors so they can relate to each other better” idea might hold up if, the one time Katara actually got the chance to meaningfully talk about her trauma, Aang didn’t tell her to forgive her mother’s murderer and compare her to a madman who attempted to flood a village full of innocent civilians when she pushed back 🙃

[sad-endings-suck]

some of you are too angry at fictional children

[firelxdykatara]

If you're looking for a serious answer, it's because the vast majority of the problems with the way Katara is mistreated and ultimately disrespected in canon boil down to how she is effectively reduced to nothing but The Avatar's Girl/Wife/Mother of the Avatar's Children.

Katara is given almost nothing to do in the comics but be Aang's girlfriend and Yes Man, accepting any decisions he makes with little to no pushback and no arcs of her own (plus wildly out-of-character moments like encouraging Aang to agree to promise to murder Zuko if he starts 'going bad' like that wasn't a clear cry for help from a deeply traumatized friend that Katara should've seen from a mile away). This gets so much worse in LoK when we hear nothing about her own life and accomplishments outside her status as Aang's wife and the mother of his kids (mostly Tenzin, cause the Air Acolytes who worshiped Aang didn't even know he had other children)... except for her allegedly getting blood-bending outlawed single-handedly (which we only hear second-hand, because she's nowhere to be found at the one bloodbending trial we see on screen). The one major exception is the North and South comic, where, yeah, Katara gets her own arc... but it's to learn the lesson that the North recolonizing the South is fine actually and the people who were fighting against it were wrong and she was just being stubborn and resistant to Good and Necessary Change.

Other than that, she's a set piece. In the comics, she gets to look scared a lot and call Aang 'sweetie' and otherwise do nothing of any particular note (not even during The Search, which you'd think she'd take more of a major role in given its parallels to The Southern Raiders and the fact that her first true connection with Zuko came because of empathy for the loss of both their mothers), and in LoK she gets to be old and sad and a widow who only ever talks about Aang and never her own views on her life or the things she accomplished. This meta series goes into detail, working backwards from the end of LoK, and it isn't ship-focused--but the fact is that Katara's identity heavily revolves around Aang in a way that just doesn't make sense from her personality and portrayal in the original cartoon.

(I don't care how old she gets, you will never have me believing that the Katara we got to know in AtLA would just let her people tear themselves apart, or let her family be annihilated without lifting a finger to help or save them. And there's no way she was too old to make it to her granddaughter's Air Master ceremony, literally the most important moment of an airbender's life, are you kidding me? But no, the only losses she ever gets to talk about are Aang's. The only traumas she ever talks about in any detail are Aang's. The only experiences that matter in her life are Aang's, so I guess it makes sense that nothing that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Aang would be important enough to motivate her! -heavy heavy sarcasm-)

And even though her life completely revolves around Aang, she doesn't even get the respect of being widely known to be the one who knows him best. She was married to the man for fifty-odd years, and still, when Korra meets Zuko she tells him you knew Aang better than anyone. Like she didn't spent her whole life being raised and trained by his wife. It's just one more layer to the disrespect sundae--Katara's entire life is Aang, but the same was never true in reverse!

Which is really the crux of the whole thing. And it's not that the problem is inherently the ship--it's the writers, and it's highly likely that if zutara had been canon we would all have regretted it--but the simple fact is, these problems began with the way the ship was written in AtLA, and the disrespect shown to Katara as a character and as a core member of Team Avatar in the comics and LoK is an extension of that. Especially when we consider that the biggest problems with the ship can from it being mandated by the showrunners, who went on to have creative control over the comics and LoK and were not joined by several of the writers from the original show's team who had made early changes to characters and story that made the show so much richer. If zutara had been canon, I have no doubt that Bryke would've fucked it up--in no small part because there'd have been an added element of bitterness at being strongarmed into making something other than their pet favorite ship endgame--but it wasn't, so they couldn't. (Even though they tried ruining their friendship in the comics.) So "society if Katara ended up with a better relationship arc" often tends to involve "society if Katara didn't end up shackled to Aang for the rest of her natural life".

so i'm not in the atla fandom but i sometimes go on this tag called "katara deserved better"

and tell me why 90% of posts in this tag are about which man katara should've ended up with than about her actual character?

like do you guys care about katara or are you just upset your ship didn't become canon?

[theweeklydiscourse]

Zutarians when Katara isn’t used as a prize for Zuko’s redemption arc and doesn’t fall to her knees and suck Zuko’s dick the second he isn’t a racist cunt toward her and instead actually loves Aang, someone who is her best friend and a fellow genocide survivor who understands her trauma and treats her with utmost respect

This is so exciting…my first deranged anon! I’m glad that my humble Zutara discourse could reach you and stir such strong emotions in your heart.

This ask serves as a reminder of the disingenuous nature of antis when it comes to discussing the politics of ATLA. Look closely at the provocative language anon uses as well as their hyperbole, notice how extreme of a characterization it is. See how much of the show they need to rewrite and omit to give their argument a leg to stand on. Notice how they invoke “genocide” and “racism”, not to make any sort of coherent commentary on the show, but to bolster their ship and make their claims seem less outrageous.

According to this anon, we should abandon our tastes in fictional ships and instead *checks notes* be morally obliged ship the two characters on the basis of shared trauma…what a compelling reason lol. Also, the “treats her with utmost respect” is not lost on me, apparently in anon’s mind “utmost respect” includes kissing someone without their consent and dismissing their trauma because their response to it doesn’t align with your values.

[starlight-bread-blog]

It's always "No I don't hate A@ng or Ma! I just want to criticize how their characters were handled", and never "They're fictional and you're offended on the behalf of literal nothing".

Ps: Zks say what you gotta say to avoid harassment. I don't hate them either. It's just absurd that hating a fictional character that doesn't exist is something to be denounced in order to be taken seriously.

[blackbullet99]

Debunking The Stupidest Pro-Zutara Claims.

Howdy y’all.

If you follow me, you know I’m a Kataang truther and a Zutara hater. I always thought Kataang was cute as a kid, but I honestly didn’t appreciate how mutual and well developed their relationship more until I was older. By contrast, I didn’t think much of Zutara initially, I knew it had a huge following and I kinda got why, they have a very interesting dynamic that drastically changes and them becoming friends is heartwarming, but I never got the hype. Then I saw this…

And I was utterly baffled at the mischaracterization, media-illiteracy, Zuko dickriding and Aang demonization on this post. Let’s have a look…

See what I mean about the Zuko dickriding and Aang demonizing. You compare one scene of Zuko making tea for everyone in Book 3, to Aang showing off in Book 1. Need I mention that Aang later apologized for getting big-headed by the end, and later episodes show that Aang (and the rest of the group) all work together. Right off the bat and we get this dumb Katara/Cinderella narrative.

Not another Dadko. Momtara I kind of get, but Zuko is not a father figure. Zuko himself is still young, still growing, still capable of being immature. The first moment isn’t even a parental thing, it’s more Zuko stopping Katara from confronting Aang because he somewhat understands Aang’s frustration of being unsure and conflicting about a huge decision, because he’s been there not long ago.

Comforting someone when they’re worried or grieving isn’t parental responsibility, that’s being empathetic and good friend. Katara comforts Zuko when he’s worried about comforting Iroh and these people lap that scene up.

“Aang acts like Katara’s son” is such a baseless argument. Ignoring the fact that Aang canonically has romantic feelings for Katara and vise-verse, the first moment was a one-off joke about Katara being motherly, the second was also a joke where Katara PRETENDS to be Aang’s mom and her brother’s husband, the last moment is Katara telling Toph how she TRAINS Aang because she’s his Sifu and so it Toph, does that mean Toph is also Aang’s mom?

Let’s go over this for the umpteenth time: Aang kissing Katara was wrong, it was bad, we should’ve seen him apologize, but he immediately regretted what he did, he knew he messed up, he’s not a sexual-assaulter, blah, blah blah. The problem with this is that these are both completely different situations and also Zuko had to be told to get off Katara, so not only is this point meaningless, but it doesn’t even support Zutara.

This has gotta be one of the dumbest arguments here, Aang has always seen Katara as an ally and dear friend first and foremost since day one. Admittedly Aang was somewhat possessive here, but him nodding mean he literally though Katara was his possession, more so him thinking Katara returned his feelings (which she did). But throughout the entirety of the show Aang sees Katara as not only an ally, but a friend, a fellow waterbender, Zuko only saw her as a friend and ally near the very end of the show, before that he simply saw her as a peasant in the way of his goal.

Again, both of these are completely different contexts and both Aang and Zuko were pretty adamant about how Katara feels about them. Zuko frustratingly confronts Katara about why she’s mad it him, he wants to earn to trust and sleep deprives himself so he can resolve this as soon as she wakes up. Katara asks why Aang is so crestfallen, he explains part of the reason, Aang (while being somewhat pushy) wants to know how Katara feels before he confronts Ozai in life or death.

Both are different situations and really I wouldn’t say either is better than the other.

Okay, there’s a lot wrong with these points, lemme go over them as best as I can.

Aang has put his needs over Katara’s several times, just to name three: he gave himself so the Fire Nation would spare her home, was willing to forgo his own Waterbending because Pakku wouldn’t train her, willingly put aside mastering the Avatar State because SHE WAS IN DANGER!

Aang understands the importance of Katara’s family, he leaves so as to to come between Katara and her family when she threatens to leave, he brings back her necklace knowing how much it means to her.

In both of mentioned Aang instances, he realized he was wrong and he and Katara reconciled, the first instance was out of a misguided attempt to set things right after he was killed, and the former is something Aang would never do again, in a later episode he actively takes Sokka to his father and Aang is content for he and Katara to go their separate ways for a while. I find it utterly hypocritical to be a Zuko dickrider while bashing Aang for mistakes he regrets, apologizes for and learns from, you know who else does that?

Once again, THE CONTEXT! In the first scene Katara mentions her mother’s death in a more matter of fact way to explain to Aang that the Fire Nation have killed a lot of people including his own. Aang however in a state of denial dismissed the idea of his own people being killed. In the second scene Katara lashes out at Zuko for all the trouble he caused and Zuko after going through some development prior empathizes with her in a way to get Katara to understand he means no harm.

Aang also empathized with Katara’s loss. In this same episode, he himself says he knows what it’s like to feel the pain and rage Katara feels, specifically when he found out all his people were dead and encouraged Katara to confront the person who caused said pain.

I REALLY HATE making a Katara centric episode about shipping, I really do, many people say Zuko was right Aang was wrong, or Aang was right Zuko was wrong. Neither side was entirely right or entirely wrong.

Zuko was right to take Katara to confront Yon-Rha and this was when he truly began to understand what Katara had been through and see her as an individual, while Katara comes to see Zuko as a friend and forgive him, however he had no idea what Katara was going to do and didn’t think of toll this would take on Katara if she did end up choosing violence.

Meanwhile Aang not agreeing with Katara and confronting her isn’t a bad thing, he understands just what it’s like to lose someone close to you and to feel unbridled rage and hate, he’s been there, he also knows Katara isn’t cold-hearted and she could come to regret seeking violence. He actively encourages Katara to face Yon-Rha without killing him, which she does and as Zuko says he was right about what Katara needed. But as Katara points out she didn’t forgive Yon-Rha, forgiveness wasn’t the right choice, and you know what, this is something Aang accepts.

These points in particular really highlight the stupidity and hypocrisy of the OP. For one, as we can literally see Aang ignored his training specifically because Katara was in danger and he wanted to save her, this is no different from Zuko sacrificing himself to save Katara, in fact Aang has put his life on the line for Katara multiple times. Furthermore OP gets on Aang’s case for leaving Katara to fulfill his duties in the Book 3 premiere, but then praises Zuko for leaving Mai to fulfill his duties. They’re literally praising Zuko for doing the same stuff Aang’s doing and whining about Aang whether he chose to ignore his duties to be with Katara or if he leaves Katara to fulfill his duties, you can’t win!

Okay, screw this guy, this has nothing to do with the Zuko saving Katara, OP just wanted to bitch about Aang not wanting to kill Ozai as if this supposedly makes him selfish even though Aang is literally facing Ozai to save the world and is simply trying to find a peaceful solution, it’s like the theme of this show was lost on this dude.

This was the creep who made weird comments about Katara’s appearance wasn’t it.

I really don’t get what this final point is trying to prove. The first scene is Katara happy that Zuko is alive, the second is Katara happily gazing at Aang, who never at any point tried to change Katara, at all. Point me to one scene, one moment. If this is about how Katara looks, she doesn’t look that different, at the very least, her eyes are slightly bigger in the second pic because she close to someone she loves, but even then it’s a lot of whining from this guy about nothing.

Case in point, this is when I realized Anti-Kataang Zutara shippers have are media-illiterate morons with not a single good take, fake-fans who only care about mischaracterization for the sake of a mid middle-school ship.

Maybe I should make a counter post about what Katara gains from Kataang.

[valariecomet]

Right. Because that's how story's work. When a plotline happens off screen that is amazinggggg writing. Absolutely great. I love it when characters randomly start acting entirely different to how they usually do! It's sooooo much fun!

Seriously? I haven't read much of the comics and I don't plan to since from what I have seen they're shit, I read the promise years ago and I tried to read imbalance before giving up on it (the only comic I enjoyed was Katara and the pirates silver), so I'm not even sure if this criticism is justified. However, that doesn't mean this defense is right. If a character grows or changes, show it on screen or give an explanation, if not it's bad writing. Simple.

This isn't the real world, it's fiction so while in real life they should change over that time, in a fictional setting they shouldn't grow off screen because you have to suspend your disbelief and be able to easily follow along. If a character randomly changes it disrupts this flow of the story and messes with the audience. If this happens on the comics (which again, I'm not saying it does) it's bad writing. Plain and simple.

If this seems salty it's because I am. I am genuinely so tired of this fandom, it can't handle any fucking criticism against this show or any of the related bloody comics. Please just accept that nothing is perfect (except Katara) and no piece of media is entirely great. I'm not saying you have to engage with the criticism, just acknowledge there is stuff to critique.

[yourhighness6]

The thing about the whole TSR discourse is that a lot of it is centered around who was right: Zuko or Aang. Although I have seen posts focusing primarily on Katara's feelings, I do think it is necessary to remind anyone who cares to listen every once in a while that it doesn't really matter who was right. It matters who enabled Katara to make her own choices and gave her the space to do so, and I think we all know who that was.

[cobraonthecob]

i hate how they handled the topic of mixed families in the comics but i think that as a character motivation, it would've made more sense zuko and katara were together (or actually, anyone and katara, let's be real) and aang was being a petty little brat about it rather than looking like an idiot that he was in canon

like yeah he'd be an asshole, but at least it'd make SENSE. like idk about y'all, but if i was dating someone outside of my race, i would NOT be pushing for this shit. i'm not one of my country's supreme court justices, after all (bad case of rules for thee and not for me)

i still think aang going right to banning mixed marriages was stupid as fuck and i wish they never wrote that plotline, but pandora's box has been opened and you can't close it. this is what we get. aang pushing for a ban on mixed marriages is canon in the comics, and short of pretending the comics don't exist, i get to be salty and pissed off about it

and i think that's why it's important to divorce the different aangs from each other. aang as he was from the animated show is a different character in the comics, very different from legend of korra, and fanon aang can be whatever you make of him. if you want to steer into his best traits, good for you! but some of us like steering into his worst traits, don't yell at us about it. yell at the canon material for being present and giving us that fuel lmfao

[broadwaybalogna]

I was told I got the “nail on the head” with my refute to this take so I’ll share it on here too because I think people need to hear it.

The only way this person wouldn’t be in the wrong is if shipping Zutara was inherently racist, which it isn’t. Many people paint Zuko to be a “colonizer” since his nation had colonized parts of the earth kingdom (mind you, that’s the only place any form of fire nation colonization has taken place), but Zuko never colonized any place himself, he was too focused on capturing the avatar. So… not a colonizer. What people are doing is conflating Zuko with his nation even though in the years where it actually counted, he was exiled and had no voice in the nation.

This is essentially saying that anyone who was alive when America was a colony and got independence couldn’t date any English person simply because of the fact that they’re British. It doesn’t matter if said english person lived outside of England or lived in England during the war and maybe even one time agreed with them, it’d be morally wrong. But that’s up to the American to decide, not anyone else. If the English person joined America in the battle of Yorktown and single-handedly took down a solid quarter of the British troops, would that be enough for the American to date them? Trick question! It’s not up to you to decide. It’s up to whoever wants to date them.

Before I continue, I was told by woc specifically that this next point was accurate. I consulted them before posting on here.

I think this personally actually stems from a place of racism on the kat/angers side. They see Katara as this young, innocent woc who needs to be protected and can’t fend for herself. It’s a white savior kind of situation. Because she is a woc, she shouldn’t date Zuko but rather Aang since “he proved multiple times just how much he loved her”; “She’s too innocent for Zuko”; or they’ll steer in the completely opposite side of the racism spectrum and say that Katara “bullied” and “harassed” Zuko simply because she didn’t trust him after he betrayed her. They paint Katara to be this aggressive woc who can’t see reason and is rude to people to want to help her. Even if that’s not what they want to convey, it still comes from a place of deeply rooted internalized racism.

All of this to say it’s not racist to ship Zutara. It never was and it never will be. If you want to tag your shit takes with the wrong tags, fine, knock yourself out, but be aware that those actions will have consequences since your point is inherently wrong.

[ecoterrorist-katara]

oh the “engage in good faith with a Tumblr user about Katara’s character on a non-shipping post —> my input is staunchly ignored while they continue ranting ���> wonder what I did wrong —> discover this user is actually a Ka/taang shipper and Zutara anti” pipeline