#kataang salt

[valariecomet]

Honestly seeing (mostly kataang and maiko shippers but not just them) say ppl need to move on from what Bryke did with book 4 air makes me genuinely mad.

When I first started watching the show I was basically bullied out the fandom for drawing Zutara fanart. I was either 11 or 12 at the time and it was during 2020. A bunch of people older than me were mocking me for my fanart, not even because it was bad (not that if they did it would have been justified) no, because it was of a ship they like. I was called a whole bunch of colourful names and slurs and got accused of some horrible things just for liking Zutara and it did affect me.

Now, imagine 12 year old me finding and watching Book 4, do you think that just because that was in 2008 it didn't affect me? No! Of course it did! If anything it made me feel worse, so much so I left the fandom for two years and I only got back into ATLA when I was 14, even then I have only recently started engaging with the fandom again. Just because it occurred in 2008 doesn't mean it doesn't affect people now and I'm sure I'm not the only kid who has been discouraged by that video. If you were a kid at the time or not, the video can and has had an affect on people.

Also, it's not like Bryke were kids when they did that, no, they were full grown adults using children's fanart to mock them. It was disgusting and the fact they have never apologized, as far as I know, is gross. It doesn't matter how long ago it happened because it happened and still affects people, I don't think people should be forced to move on just because you believe that it isn't a big deal or it was ages ago so they should be forgiven. If you don't care that's fine, but don't try to force people to feel different to how they feel.

If your a Zutara shipper who's fanart was in that video, I am genuinely so fucking sorry. That is horrible and I can't imagine how it could have affected you. I know if I was in your situation I would still be upset about it to this day because of how discouraging the video was. I know your probably not reading this but if you are I feel for you.

Also I'm writing this after trying for about two hours to complete the gosh darn pachinko machine level in super Mario sunshine so if I sound a bit emotionally charged it's because I have just spend the past two of so hours in agony ✌️

Edit: I forgot about the Azulaang and Tokka scenes in the video since I hadn't watched it in ages, you guys too I'm so sorry, that was so cruel for you guys too.

[firelxdykatara]

Was watching sneezys video on K/A v Z/K and wondered slightly off tangent why you (and ill admit that I) never took redcrackle as a red herring pairing? Was it just preference for enemies to lovers or ? Is it because they have meat to them that seems it actually might resolve in a romantic fashion (if xyz reasons and behind the scenes wasn't in the way)?

Prt 2 of the sneezy x rc because to clarify i always wondered why being like they are (not having the same values and always having to leave each other instead of coming together) didn't make you see it as a k/a or m/z?

So I actually answered an ask similar to this quite some time ago, though the framing was a little different--I was asked if I agreed that red crackle was maiko 'done better' and my answer was kinda wordy but I think it boils down to this:

I think a big part of it is that Carmen Sandiego started out giving you the sense that these two characters genuinely loved and cared for one another in the 'childhood friends' portion of their past. ... The thing about maiko is... it was entirely one-sided from the very beginning. Shippers will sometimes try to sell you on them being 'childhood sweethearts', but they really weren't--Mai had a crush on Zuko, to which he was oblivious,...

...

Gray and Carmen, on the other hand, were established as rivals who quickly became best friends over the course of their year in school together. They clearly cared deeply for one another, and Gray was just as upset as she was when Carmen failed their final exams ... They didn't see each other for three years (incidentally, the same length of time between Zuko's banishment and meeting Mai again), at which point they were enemies, and yet Gray was clearly upset at the prospect of having to hurt her.

...

Carmen and Gray both grew as characters separately and together--Mai never grew at all, being the exact same person in her last appearance as she was in her first, with the same beliefs and no indication that anything about her worldview had changed, and this is especially egregious when she was paired as a love interest with the character who arguably had the most dynamic growth throughout the series.

Ultimately, my problems with maiko (and kataang) were never that the characters involved had diverging morals or goals, or that they spent significant portions of time separated--those are things that could make for juicy romantic development if given adequate time and page- or screen-space to grow and add to the tension between them until it eventually boils over. The real issue is that neither of these ships actually sold me on the mutual development of their romantic feelings or relationships.

And actually, maiko and kataang both share the problem of one-sided interest being established and nothing being done to make the journey from unrequited to requited love seem believable for the characters who did not originally share these feelings. Aang's crush on Katara is abundantly clear from the beginning of the show, where he hatches from his ice egg and imprints on the first girl he's ever seen in his life like a baby duckling. Katara is entirely oblivious to his interest in her even when he tries to act upon it (take the Cave of Two Lovers, for example, where they kiss to light their way forward and Aang seems flustered and clearly wants to talk about what just happened, but Katara seems to feel nothing except relief and excitement that their plan worked and she can now find the way out), until quite late in the series when, after Aang rather aggressively projects his own feelings onto her, she suddenly seems to reciprocate. Likewise, it is established in a flashback that Mai had a crush on Zuko, but there's zero indication given that he ever noticed her feelings, much less returned them (which makes sense given that he was ten years old at the time and she was his sister's friend and helped to torment him), and no care or attention is given at all to his feelings towards her in the present until suddenly they are dating at the start of book 3.

Then with maiko you have the added issue of nothing ever being done to resolve their stark differences in worldview. At the end of The Boiling Rock, Mai turns on Azula to save 'the jerk who dumped [her]', not because she suddenly realized she was wrong and the Fire Nation needed to change. And at the end of the show you have evidence that Zuko had completely forgotten about her (despite the fact that he could quite possibly have thought she died defying Azula to save his life, and never once seems to think about her again afterwards), and they just... get back together. Because reasons, I guess. Because Mai says 'I guess I kind of like you' and that's supposed to be a good reason for two people to get back together despite none of the things that made their relationship untenable in the first place having changed.

On the other hand, Gray goes through an entire arc on the show after getting his memories back where he comes to realize that working with VILE was not worth losing Carmen, and it wasn't worth Carmen losing herself. And while you could certainly make the argument that at the end of the day he was still saving Carmen because he loved her (however you interpret that love; I personally view it as romantic but obviously the show did not choose to make any specific Carmen-centric ship canon in the end), not because his own moral center had shifted away from the villainous, I would counter that taking a stand against VILE was a clear indication that he had discovered something that was worth more to him than his criminal inclinations. And there was actually a relationship there to serve as a foundation, plus the obvious potential for him to join Team Red in the future and use his skills for good rather than evil.

I have always been a proponent of the redemptive power of love, incidentally. I think that one of the most beautiful forms of redemption is choosing to change because of love, because the act of falling in love and recognizing that love is inherently transformative. Because love changes us and makes us want to be better versions of ourselves. (Or sometimes worse, I do love a good corruption arc too but that's a different topic.)

But the thing is that I ultimately need to believe that love exists in order to buy its power to redeem. I never saw any reason to believe Mai and Zuko were in love beyond very surface-level indications of attraction and an otherwise shallow relationship where they never seem to connect on any deeper level--and not for lack of trying on Zuko's part, here is an excellent essay about their lack of emotional intimacy. Carmen and Gray, meanwhile, had a close friendship and deep emotional bond which persisted through Gray's forced amnesia and that changed him enough that he let Carmen go and then took steps to get her away from VILE after they captured and brainwashed her, branding himself a traitor and risking imprisonment or death to do so.

You can't just skip the part where the story shows us how and why a couple are in love or might have fallen in love and then try to convince me that they are and this isolated moment of sacrifice embodies it. You've gotta put in the work! And atla ultimately fails to do so for either of their main canon ships. (Zutara on the other hand..... but that's another essay. Cough.)

[ladyelainehilfur]

Kataang isn't a bad ship, they're just boring and aggressively mild mannered.

[firelxdykatara]

And the issue with this too is that Bryke don't even realize that's what they portrayed, which tells me they didn't do it on purpose and that makes it especially galling!

Like, when asked about Aang as a father the response was (paraphrased, I don't have the source off hand) 'oh Aang wasn't that bad, Kya and Bumi were just jealous' and it's like... really? That's what you're going with? These 50/60+ year old fully grown adults are still stewing about petty jealousy over their younger brother getting taken on a couple airbender-exclusive trips as kids to the point where it's colored their perceptions of said childhood their entire adult lives?

And the fact is that this reading simply isn't supported by the text! If Aang 'wasn't that bad', why didn't he ever even once mention that he had other children to the Air Acolytes who practically worshiped him? Why did Bumi feel the need to apologize to a statue of his dead father for not being born an airbender and then say 'I hope I made you proud'--not for anything he had done or any accomplishment he'd made, but because the universe had randomly gifted him airbending? If Aang 'wasn't that bad', why weren't his other two children included on ANY of the trips he took with Tenzin, including to Ember Island, a place with no airbending significance but a great deal of significance to the gaang as a whole and their adventures? And why didn't he think it important to teach his other two children about fully half of their cultural heritage? Were they not every bit the Air Nomad that Tenzin was even though they could not airbend?

And frankly, the way the three k/a kiids are treated in LoK--Kya is Water Tribe because she's a waterbender, Tenzin is Air Nomad because he's an airbender, Bumi is cultureless because he's a nonbender until he becomes an Air Nomad when the universe gifts him airbending--is so at odds with the themes of the first series that it almost seems like it had to have been deliberate, but then the question is... why? Why make a whole show about the importance of unity and hope in dark times and striving for peace and love over division and hate, and then have the kids of the fucking avatar in the very next series act as if their culture is entirely predicated on their bending status? Which is an especially bad look when the entirety of the first season of said series centers around the oppression of nonbenders and it's very weird how these two streams are never allowed to cross. (Because, again, I suspect it was not at all the intended message. I think Bryke are just that bad at storytelling that they never thought through the implications here.)

"Why do you want to make a deadbeat dad out of Aang?", "Aang wasn't a bad father, he was just flawed!"

No one said this to me personally, but those or similar claims I read coming from people defending Aang and his actions towards his non-airbender children.

The thing is: I and many A:TLA fans don't want to make a deadbeat dad out of Aang. And for the flawed-thing: where do people draw the line?

I draw the line when the non-bender son apologizes to his father's statue for something he had no control over. Because he felt his father's disappointment, likely more than once in his life.

I draw the line when an air acolyte—one of the persons who are supposed to know everything about Aang's life—doesn't know that her messiah has more than one child. That means Aang never, ever talked about his other children. Wanna prove me wrong? Then show me other air acolytes later on in the same episode who indeed know about his other children and love the stories Aang, as a proud father, used to tell them about Kya and Bumi. And his soulmate Katara...

I draw the line when a father, who barely sees his other two children and his wife who is supposed to be his soulmate, decides to take whole vacations with his one airbender son and neglects the rest of his family even in his free time.

So, no, I don't want to make a deadbeat dad out of Aang. The narrative did it. Bryke did it, and, as someone who loves Aang, I was pissed af. Cancel Bumi's apology, the scene with the air acolyte and the vacations, keep Aang travelling with Tenzin alone to the air temples as some kind of duty and show me beautiful memories of Aang hugging and playing around with his whole family, and I believe that he was just flawed.

The family portrait in which Tenzin was a few months old and didn't even show signs of airbending isn't enough evidence—none at all. You find those happy-smiling portraits in every happy and unhappy household (Pink's song "Family Portrait" comes to mind). I never read the comics, but heard they retcon the scene in Korra so far that it would only make sense if Kya and Bumi would have memory loss or dementia.

The Aang I know from A:TLA would've loved to pass on his culture to all of his children, airbenders or not. They don't have to be airbenders to learn about it.

Bryke are great world builders and artists, but no writers, they should let other people do the job. They are literally the only writers I know who refuse to learn from their mistakes, keep on retconning instead, and are defended by some people among the fandom for it.

And surprise, surprise: what Katara thought about it, if she said anything to Aang or if she just sat back and watched, wasn't even mentioned in the talk between the siblings.

TL;DR: Bryke decided to portray Aang's actions as a father and husband to the extent that it comes off as if he isn't interested in his non-airbender children and Katara at all. It isn't me and the other critics who want to portray him as a deadbeat dad, on the contrary: as someone who loves Aang, it pisses me off. A family portrait makes no difference, because it proves nothing. And neither do the comics. Either you manage to convey the message you want to send in this exact scene, or you miss the mark.

[longing-for-rain]

The “Katara and Aang are both genocide survivors so they can relate to each other better” idea might hold up if, the one time Katara actually got the chance to meaningfully talk about her trauma, Aang didn’t tell her to forgive her mother’s murderer and compare her to a madman who attempted to flood a village full of innocent civilians when she pushed back 🙃

[sad-endings-suck]

some of you are too angry at fictional children

[the-badger-mole]

Why are they like this? I thought it was just Aang who was the creator's pet, but now they're extending it to all the Air Nomads.

And that's because in the show we see NO evidence of sexism in the Fire Nation. But now they're retconning everything to make the Fire Nation (where Zuko, one half of zutara, is from) worse and the Air Nomads (one half of kataang) look even better.

Ugh... tell me the writer's never actually dealt with discrimination in the real world without telling me. It's giving "Why is British food covered in beans?" "Well, whY ARE AMERICAN SCHOOL FULL OF SHOOTERS AND DEAD KIDS????"

It's not a good look for Gyatso. For a pacifist, he was real quick to escalate that argument over nothing. It's also confirming my thought that the Air Nomads have a problem with self-righteous xenophobes who aren't critical of their own beliefs and customs. I wonder if they'll ever address the fact that all Air Nomads being air benders has to be a lie based on the existence of Kya and Bumi in LoK. No wonder Aang turned out the way he did. Look who raised him🙄

[firelxdykatara]

If you're looking for a serious answer, it's because the vast majority of the problems with the way Katara is mistreated and ultimately disrespected in canon boil down to how she is effectively reduced to nothing but The Avatar's Girl/Wife/Mother of the Avatar's Children.

Katara is given almost nothing to do in the comics but be Aang's girlfriend and Yes Man, accepting any decisions he makes with little to no pushback and no arcs of her own (plus wildly out-of-character moments like encouraging Aang to agree to promise to murder Zuko if he starts 'going bad' like that wasn't a clear cry for help from a deeply traumatized friend that Katara should've seen from a mile away). This gets so much worse in LoK when we hear nothing about her own life and accomplishments outside her status as Aang's wife and the mother of his kids (mostly Tenzin, cause the Air Acolytes who worshiped Aang didn't even know he had other children)... except for her allegedly getting blood-bending outlawed single-handedly (which we only hear second-hand, because she's nowhere to be found at the one bloodbending trial we see on screen). The one major exception is the North and South comic, where, yeah, Katara gets her own arc... but it's to learn the lesson that the North recolonizing the South is fine actually and the people who were fighting against it were wrong and she was just being stubborn and resistant to Good and Necessary Change.

Other than that, she's a set piece. In the comics, she gets to look scared a lot and call Aang 'sweetie' and otherwise do nothing of any particular note (not even during The Search, which you'd think she'd take more of a major role in given its parallels to The Southern Raiders and the fact that her first true connection with Zuko came because of empathy for the loss of both their mothers), and in LoK she gets to be old and sad and a widow who only ever talks about Aang and never her own views on her life or the things she accomplished. This meta series goes into detail, working backwards from the end of LoK, and it isn't ship-focused--but the fact is that Katara's identity heavily revolves around Aang in a way that just doesn't make sense from her personality and portrayal in the original cartoon.

(I don't care how old she gets, you will never have me believing that the Katara we got to know in AtLA would just let her people tear themselves apart, or let her family be annihilated without lifting a finger to help or save them. And there's no way she was too old to make it to her granddaughter's Air Master ceremony, literally the most important moment of an airbender's life, are you kidding me? But no, the only losses she ever gets to talk about are Aang's. The only traumas she ever talks about in any detail are Aang's. The only experiences that matter in her life are Aang's, so I guess it makes sense that nothing that doesn't have to do with her relationship to Aang would be important enough to motivate her! -heavy heavy sarcasm-)

And even though her life completely revolves around Aang, she doesn't even get the respect of being widely known to be the one who knows him best. She was married to the man for fifty-odd years, and still, when Korra meets Zuko she tells him you knew Aang better than anyone. Like she didn't spent her whole life being raised and trained by his wife. It's just one more layer to the disrespect sundae--Katara's entire life is Aang, but the same was never true in reverse!

Which is really the crux of the whole thing. And it's not that the problem is inherently the ship--it's the writers, and it's highly likely that if zutara had been canon we would all have regretted it--but the simple fact is, these problems began with the way the ship was written in AtLA, and the disrespect shown to Katara as a character and as a core member of Team Avatar in the comics and LoK is an extension of that. Especially when we consider that the biggest problems with the ship can from it being mandated by the showrunners, who went on to have creative control over the comics and LoK and were not joined by several of the writers from the original show's team who had made early changes to characters and story that made the show so much richer. If zutara had been canon, I have no doubt that Bryke would've fucked it up--in no small part because there'd have been an added element of bitterness at being strongarmed into making something other than their pet favorite ship endgame--but it wasn't, so they couldn't. (Even though they tried ruining their friendship in the comics.) So "society if Katara ended up with a better relationship arc" often tends to involve "society if Katara didn't end up shackled to Aang for the rest of her natural life".

so i'm not in the atla fandom but i sometimes go on this tag called "katara deserved better"

and tell me why 90% of posts in this tag are about which man katara should've ended up with than about her actual character?

like do you guys care about katara or are you just upset your ship didn't become canon?

[theweeklydiscourse]

Zutarians when Katara isn’t used as a prize for Zuko’s redemption arc and doesn’t fall to her knees and suck Zuko’s dick the second he isn’t a racist cunt toward her and instead actually loves Aang, someone who is her best friend and a fellow genocide survivor who understands her trauma and treats her with utmost respect

This is so exciting…my first deranged anon! I’m glad that my humble Zutara discourse could reach you and stir such strong emotions in your heart.

This ask serves as a reminder of the disingenuous nature of antis when it comes to discussing the politics of ATLA. Look closely at the provocative language anon uses as well as their hyperbole, notice how extreme of a characterization it is. See how much of the show they need to rewrite and omit to give their argument a leg to stand on. Notice how they invoke “genocide” and “racism”, not to make any sort of coherent commentary on the show, but to bolster their ship and make their claims seem less outrageous.

According to this anon, we should abandon our tastes in fictional ships and instead *checks notes* be morally obliged ship the two characters on the basis of shared trauma…what a compelling reason lol. Also, the “treats her with utmost respect” is not lost on me, apparently in anon’s mind “utmost respect” includes kissing someone without their consent and dismissing their trauma because their response to it doesn’t align with your values.

[starlight-bread-blog]

It's always "No I don't hate A@ng or Ma! I just want to criticize how their characters were handled", and never "They're fictional and you're offended on the behalf of literal nothing".

Ps: Zks say what you gotta say to avoid harassment. I don't hate them either. It's just absurd that hating a fictional character that doesn't exist is something to be denounced in order to be taken seriously.

[blackbullet99]

Debunking The Stupidest Pro-Zutara Claims.

Howdy y’all.

If you follow me, you know I’m a Kataang truther and a Zutara hater. I always thought Kataang was cute as a kid, but I honestly didn’t appreciate how mutual and well developed their relationship more until I was older. By contrast, I didn’t think much of Zutara initially, I knew it had a huge following and I kinda got why, they have a very interesting dynamic that drastically changes and them becoming friends is heartwarming, but I never got the hype. Then I saw this…

And I was utterly baffled at the mischaracterization, media-illiteracy, Zuko dickriding and Aang demonization on this post. Let’s have a look…

See what I mean about the Zuko dickriding and Aang demonizing. You compare one scene of Zuko making tea for everyone in Book 3, to Aang showing off in Book 1. Need I mention that Aang later apologized for getting big-headed by the end, and later episodes show that Aang (and the rest of the group) all work together. Right off the bat and we get this dumb Katara/Cinderella narrative.

Not another Dadko. Momtara I kind of get, but Zuko is not a father figure. Zuko himself is still young, still growing, still capable of being immature. The first moment isn’t even a parental thing, it’s more Zuko stopping Katara from confronting Aang because he somewhat understands Aang’s frustration of being unsure and conflicting about a huge decision, because he’s been there not long ago.

Comforting someone when they’re worried or grieving isn’t parental responsibility, that’s being empathetic and good friend. Katara comforts Zuko when he’s worried about comforting Iroh and these people lap that scene up.

“Aang acts like Katara’s son” is such a baseless argument. Ignoring the fact that Aang canonically has romantic feelings for Katara and vise-verse, the first moment was a one-off joke about Katara being motherly, the second was also a joke where Katara PRETENDS to be Aang’s mom and her brother’s husband, the last moment is Katara telling Toph how she TRAINS Aang because she’s his Sifu and so it Toph, does that mean Toph is also Aang’s mom?

Let’s go over this for the umpteenth time: Aang kissing Katara was wrong, it was bad, we should’ve seen him apologize, but he immediately regretted what he did, he knew he messed up, he’s not a sexual-assaulter, blah, blah blah. The problem with this is that these are both completely different situations and also Zuko had to be told to get off Katara, so not only is this point meaningless, but it doesn’t even support Zutara.

This has gotta be one of the dumbest arguments here, Aang has always seen Katara as an ally and dear friend first and foremost since day one. Admittedly Aang was somewhat possessive here, but him nodding mean he literally though Katara was his possession, more so him thinking Katara returned his feelings (which she did). But throughout the entirety of the show Aang sees Katara as not only an ally, but a friend, a fellow waterbender, Zuko only saw her as a friend and ally near the very end of the show, before that he simply saw her as a peasant in the way of his goal.

Again, both of these are completely different contexts and both Aang and Zuko were pretty adamant about how Katara feels about them. Zuko frustratingly confronts Katara about why she’s mad it him, he wants to earn to trust and sleep deprives himself so he can resolve this as soon as she wakes up. Katara asks why Aang is so crestfallen, he explains part of the reason, Aang (while being somewhat pushy) wants to know how Katara feels before he confronts Ozai in life or death.

Both are different situations and really I wouldn’t say either is better than the other.

Okay, there’s a lot wrong with these points, lemme go over them as best as I can.

Aang has put his needs over Katara’s several times, just to name three: he gave himself so the Fire Nation would spare her home, was willing to forgo his own Waterbending because Pakku wouldn’t train her, willingly put aside mastering the Avatar State because SHE WAS IN DANGER!

Aang understands the importance of Katara’s family, he leaves so as to to come between Katara and her family when she threatens to leave, he brings back her necklace knowing how much it means to her.

In both of mentioned Aang instances, he realized he was wrong and he and Katara reconciled, the first instance was out of a misguided attempt to set things right after he was killed, and the former is something Aang would never do again, in a later episode he actively takes Sokka to his father and Aang is content for he and Katara to go their separate ways for a while. I find it utterly hypocritical to be a Zuko dickrider while bashing Aang for mistakes he regrets, apologizes for and learns from, you know who else does that?

Once again, THE CONTEXT! In the first scene Katara mentions her mother’s death in a more matter of fact way to explain to Aang that the Fire Nation have killed a lot of people including his own. Aang however in a state of denial dismissed the idea of his own people being killed. In the second scene Katara lashes out at Zuko for all the trouble he caused and Zuko after going through some development prior empathizes with her in a way to get Katara to understand he means no harm.

Aang also empathized with Katara’s loss. In this same episode, he himself says he knows what it’s like to feel the pain and rage Katara feels, specifically when he found out all his people were dead and encouraged Katara to confront the person who caused said pain.

I REALLY HATE making a Katara centric episode about shipping, I really do, many people say Zuko was right Aang was wrong, or Aang was right Zuko was wrong. Neither side was entirely right or entirely wrong.

Zuko was right to take Katara to confront Yon-Rha and this was when he truly began to understand what Katara had been through and see her as an individual, while Katara comes to see Zuko as a friend and forgive him, however he had no idea what Katara was going to do and didn’t think of toll this would take on Katara if she did end up choosing violence.

Meanwhile Aang not agreeing with Katara and confronting her isn’t a bad thing, he understands just what it’s like to lose someone close to you and to feel unbridled rage and hate, he’s been there, he also knows Katara isn’t cold-hearted and she could come to regret seeking violence. He actively encourages Katara to face Yon-Rha without killing him, which she does and as Zuko says he was right about what Katara needed. But as Katara points out she didn’t forgive Yon-Rha, forgiveness wasn’t the right choice, and you know what, this is something Aang accepts.

These points in particular really highlight the stupidity and hypocrisy of the OP. For one, as we can literally see Aang ignored his training specifically because Katara was in danger and he wanted to save her, this is no different from Zuko sacrificing himself to save Katara, in fact Aang has put his life on the line for Katara multiple times. Furthermore OP gets on Aang’s case for leaving Katara to fulfill his duties in the Book 3 premiere, but then praises Zuko for leaving Mai to fulfill his duties. They’re literally praising Zuko for doing the same stuff Aang’s doing and whining about Aang whether he chose to ignore his duties to be with Katara or if he leaves Katara to fulfill his duties, you can’t win!

Okay, screw this guy, this has nothing to do with the Zuko saving Katara, OP just wanted to bitch about Aang not wanting to kill Ozai as if this supposedly makes him selfish even though Aang is literally facing Ozai to save the world and is simply trying to find a peaceful solution, it’s like the theme of this show was lost on this dude.

This was the creep who made weird comments about Katara’s appearance wasn’t it.

I really don’t get what this final point is trying to prove. The first scene is Katara happy that Zuko is alive, the second is Katara happily gazing at Aang, who never at any point tried to change Katara, at all. Point me to one scene, one moment. If this is about how Katara looks, she doesn’t look that different, at the very least, her eyes are slightly bigger in the second pic because she close to someone she loves, but even then it’s a lot of whining from this guy about nothing.

Case in point, this is when I realized Anti-Kataang Zutara shippers have are media-illiterate morons with not a single good take, fake-fans who only care about mischaracterization for the sake of a mid middle-school ship.

Maybe I should make a counter post about what Katara gains from Kataang.

[valariecomet]

Right. Because that's how story's work. When a plotline happens off screen that is amazinggggg writing. Absolutely great. I love it when characters randomly start acting entirely different to how they usually do! It's sooooo much fun!

Seriously? I haven't read much of the comics and I don't plan to since from what I have seen they're shit, I read the promise years ago and I tried to read imbalance before giving up on it (the only comic I enjoyed was Katara and the pirates silver), so I'm not even sure if this criticism is justified. However, that doesn't mean this defense is right. If a character grows or changes, show it on screen or give an explanation, if not it's bad writing. Simple.

This isn't the real world, it's fiction so while in real life they should change over that time, in a fictional setting they shouldn't grow off screen because you have to suspend your disbelief and be able to easily follow along. If a character randomly changes it disrupts this flow of the story and messes with the audience. If this happens on the comics (which again, I'm not saying it does) it's bad writing. Plain and simple.

If this seems salty it's because I am. I am genuinely so tired of this fandom, it can't handle any fucking criticism against this show or any of the related bloody comics. Please just accept that nothing is perfect (except Katara) and no piece of media is entirely great. I'm not saying you have to engage with the criticism, just acknowledge there is stuff to critique.

[yourhighness6]

The thing about the whole TSR discourse is that a lot of it is centered around who was right: Zuko or Aang. Although I have seen posts focusing primarily on Katara's feelings, I do think it is necessary to remind anyone who cares to listen every once in a while that it doesn't really matter who was right. It matters who enabled Katara to make her own choices and gave her the space to do so, and I think we all know who that was.

[cobraonthecob]

i hate how they handled the topic of mixed families in the comics but i think that as a character motivation, it would've made more sense zuko and katara were together (or actually, anyone and katara, let's be real) and aang was being a petty little brat about it rather than looking like an idiot that he was in canon

like yeah he'd be an asshole, but at least it'd make SENSE. like idk about y'all, but if i was dating someone outside of my race, i would NOT be pushing for this shit. i'm not one of my country's supreme court justices, after all (bad case of rules for thee and not for me)

i still think aang going right to banning mixed marriages was stupid as fuck and i wish they never wrote that plotline, but pandora's box has been opened and you can't close it. this is what we get. aang pushing for a ban on mixed marriages is canon in the comics, and short of pretending the comics don't exist, i get to be salty and pissed off about it

and i think that's why it's important to divorce the different aangs from each other. aang as he was from the animated show is a different character in the comics, very different from legend of korra, and fanon aang can be whatever you make of him. if you want to steer into his best traits, good for you! but some of us like steering into his worst traits, don't yell at us about it. yell at the canon material for being present and giving us that fuel lmfao

[broadwaybalogna]

I was told I got the “nail on the head” with my refute to this take so I’ll share it on here too because I think people need to hear it.

The only way this person wouldn’t be in the wrong is if shipping Zutara was inherently racist, which it isn’t. Many people paint Zuko to be a “colonizer” since his nation had colonized parts of the earth kingdom (mind you, that’s the only place any form of fire nation colonization has taken place), but Zuko never colonized any place himself, he was too focused on capturing the avatar. So… not a colonizer. What people are doing is conflating Zuko with his nation even though in the years where it actually counted, he was exiled and had no voice in the nation.

This is essentially saying that anyone who was alive when America was a colony and got independence couldn’t date any English person simply because of the fact that they’re British. It doesn’t matter if said english person lived outside of England or lived in England during the war and maybe even one time agreed with them, it’d be morally wrong. But that’s up to the American to decide, not anyone else. If the English person joined America in the battle of Yorktown and single-handedly took down a solid quarter of the British troops, would that be enough for the American to date them? Trick question! It’s not up to you to decide. It’s up to whoever wants to date them.

Before I continue, I was told by woc specifically that this next point was accurate. I consulted them before posting on here.

I think this personally actually stems from a place of racism on the kat/angers side. They see Katara as this young, innocent woc who needs to be protected and can’t fend for herself. It’s a white savior kind of situation. Because she is a woc, she shouldn’t date Zuko but rather Aang since “he proved multiple times just how much he loved her”; “She’s too innocent for Zuko”; or they’ll steer in the completely opposite side of the racism spectrum and say that Katara “bullied” and “harassed” Zuko simply because she didn’t trust him after he betrayed her. They paint Katara to be this aggressive woc who can’t see reason and is rude to people to want to help her. Even if that’s not what they want to convey, it still comes from a place of deeply rooted internalized racism.

All of this to say it’s not racist to ship Zutara. It never was and it never will be. If you want to tag your shit takes with the wrong tags, fine, knock yourself out, but be aware that those actions will have consequences since your point is inherently wrong.

[ecoterrorist-katara]

oh the “engage in good faith with a Tumblr user about Katara’s character on a non-shipping post —> my input is staunchly ignored while they continue ranting —> wonder what I did wrong —> discover this user is actually a Ka/taang shipper and Zutara anti” pipeline