#karen was being so mean???

[stonedscully]

I've started trying to think of the cheesiest lines of dialogue before the 911 cast opens their mouth so that maybe when Angela Basset delivers a completely serious "And that's... no cap" it won't be such a hard blow to my psyche

[sillygoofyqueer]

Mean Girls but the Three Tumours are the Mean Girls.

Of course, Shi Wudu as Regina George - both massively bitchy and are obviously in charge of their respective trios.

Ling Wen as Gretchen Weiners - extremely knowledgeable, the intelligence gatherers of the group and so obviously five seconds away from mental breakdowns at any point in time.

Pei Ming as Karen Smith - himbo to bimbo communication. They have no idea what's going on but they get laid and look soooo pretty while doing it :3

[connecting-the-stars]

But In the End, We Stay the Same

Matt, Fisk, and Frank:

Spoilers for DDBA ep 4

Matt walking through an entirely different apartment. Fisk refusing to dawn his white suit. And Frank? Frank is setup in a filthy, half-haphazardly thrown together base of operations that is a striking mirror to the first base we see him in from Netflix Daredevil season 2.

Character introductions really set the tone for where their arcs may take them. Very interesting how they have painted each of these characters this season.

Of course, I am not blind to the criticism and where the cracks show from the creative overhaul, but I already viewed the show coming in as… well different. A “new era” both due to the gap in time since we’ve seen these wonderful characters, in real life and in universe, and due to Disney’s influence. I’m not one to focus a lot on time/age but the era when DD season one premiered was a year after Captain America: Winter soldier. This was years before Endgame and the Global Pandemic, the impact of such events are felt in the fictional universe and real world. I am a true believer in rewatch value from my multiple rewatches of Netflix’s Daredevil, but I also acknowledge that there will be elements lost, left in that era of film making and studio management. The colors and the certain level of grim are noticeably absent, when you see characters fall through several floors and they cough up dust/debris. The certain spark found in much of the dialogue of season 1 really is incredibly difficult to replicate.

Despite the places where “season 4” falls short, I can absolutely appreciate the dedication of the actors and actresses, returning and new. While I am comforted and reassured by Karen’s confirmed involvement in season 2, I appreciate Kristin’s and Cherry’s performances as they bar Matt into this new… stage of his life. Of being a full time lawyer and keeping his fists mostly unstained. Fisk’s new environment is half hilarious and half ominous as ever. Watching him stumble through politics and its niceties, and his uneasy speeches are relatively unexplored in Netflix’s series, forced into throne he has to keep his best face on for, rather than crushing skulls. Compared to his handful of appearances in the public being executed in precise manner that always had an end goal, for example, provoking Matt after the murder of Ms. Cardenas. Furthermore, with Vanessa’s distance and unfamiliar distrust. I am eagerly looking forward to Fisk’s manipulation in his mayorship as well as Vanessa’s standing in her business with her ever loving husband. The side characters playing off Fisk, have been given parts that challenge Fisk into different ways, which is much appreciated as he navigates being a truly public political figure.

Matt standing dead eyed in front of his window, right after the reshoot with Foggy’s death. Man, knew something was different. Like are you not crashing out and living out of a basement rn because….? I know that he only received medical attention after the finale of Defenders because he was in a Coma, how is the King of Guilt, Self Destructive Murdock not crawling out of dumpsters again? (Crit: where is queen of sass Sister Maggie?)

But it is fascinating watching this Matt Murdock listen to a nice record player and cook his own meals and walk like he isn’t living in the Bad Ending timeline. The quiet despair washing over him every time he reaches for Foggy’s prayer card. My dread as I realize he takes a piece of Foggy with him everywhere. The idea that Matt has lost faith in Daredevil, this utter stab to the heart proof that he Failed as daredevil, that he was not enough to save his best friend. Every which way you look at Matt and Foggy’s relationship, they are each other’s person. College, first internship, first official business. Matt of course sees this as his fault, that guilt clinging to him like a bad cold. Eats him (in the words of Castle), tears him up to the point he refuses to allow himself to enter a church. The sermon mention a person’s worthiness. Point blank. The fact that he no longer lives in Hell’s Kitchen is major flag of Distress (avoiding Sister Maggie who could talk at least some sense, some kindness to him, the absence of the church he visited so often in the Netflix show). Thus, refusing consolation of faith, of worthiness to be daredevil, Matt clutches twice as hard as ever to the Judicial system. To the part of his life and faith he shared with Foggy, where they promised each other they would do good. The abrupt introduction of Cherry and Kristin apparently filling said places of Karen and Foggy by Matt’s side is jarring as much as it is telling. While Kristin is a comic book character brought into this series, the knowledge of her and connection built with her so far is minimal, when set besides how much of Karen’s development we saw in season 1 of Netflix series. Similar to Cherry’s role being a mix of Ben Uriah and “Foggy” in essence. (I say very lightly. No one will compare to our Foggy.) Cherry’s reminders to Matt of the reality of the system and praising his efforts of being a Good Lawyer, mirroring in a way to Foggy’s constant mission to ground Matt when his head is in his ass. Heather also being pulled from the comics is quite interesting as I had no thoughts of who would be Matt’s love interest, though her being wedged between Vanessa, Fisk, and possibly Muse is not a good sign for her. New apartment, new firm, new co-workers but he cannot outrun grief. It will catch him.

(I know the lack of Karen is mostly due to the overhaul, but the fact that he does not have her to rely on currently also pushes this unresolved/unaddressed grief. The one person who also endured losing Foggy)

The time-skip is certianly something I’m intrigued by. Where it plays in the current story, and the pieces of Matt and Karen’s grief that are unexplored. Wonder if it had been inserted due to the creative overhaul?

Fisk and Matt’s parallel stories this session have been done quite well. While there was a particular balance the Netflix series formed for telling both their stories, I find giving more time to Fisk’s arc strengthens how well these characters are as narrative foils of each other. Fisk arriving this season through a slow flip of the camera, setting the city on its head and picking through a meager breakfast and his tense reunion with Vanessa, while Matt ghosts around his apartment before reaching for Foggy’s prayer card to leave. Both characters are damaged, pieces of themselves lost. While I have not watched Echo, the psychological damage done to Fisk appears to have followed him into Born Again. His confidence seemed to be shaken and his lack of support from Vanessa further pushes him towards stress. Matt facing Bullseye without Karen beforehand, the brief strained conversation with Karen afterwards. While Kristin does tell the audience that Matt needs someone in his life, that he needs a win, it is clearly seen how destitute he is when Fisk announces his mayoral campaign and he sits idle as his food burns behind him. Both Fisk and Matt turning to different ways to get by, to proceed to their goals, by refusing their “darker halves.”

This refusal to indulge in a part of who they are will double the pressure, suffocating until they can no longer stand it. Matt faced with the consequences of revealing Hector’s vigilante identity and the injustice of his murder, of being forced to face the grief and righteous anger of his niece. “No one will do anything about it!” As well as his extremely emotionally intense encounter with Frank. Fisk squaring away first steps of many in political action and faced against the failure of Daniel, then pecking through yet another modest meal. That is until episode 4’s reveal. Indulging in that carb heavy and seasoning rich meal for a king, paired swimmingly with a tortured soul’s pleas. That power, that desire for absolute authority, never truly left Fisk. Most likely never will. Then Matt scaling the roof’s ladder to his pristine collection of cowls, hand already reaching for his billy club. Their darker halves never left them, refused and placated for a time, but never not in the corner waiting for them.

Frank. Haha. Frank is great, let him take a few verbal swings at the Devil of Hell’s Kitchen and he can work out more than his therapist girlfriend. Matt really is not coping, not processing. Cannot tell most people in his life everything, why he feels so responsible for the death of Foggy, for failing him. Best keep his name out of his mouth, because it’s not about him, right? Frank sitting in this grief of losing people who meant Everything to him, and recognizing that pain and stifled rage in Matt. When he retaliates, apologies and curses falling immediately afterwards, Frank does not accept it. Knows that his Darker Half is apart of him, is apart of his grief and pain. Being Daredevil, that righteousness and ruthlessness fueled him. Losing his dad to the criminal underground that got away unscathed, that injustice and lack of closure. Acting as that immovable object to villains unstoppable force. If it’s him or these innocent people behind him? Matt’s stepping to the plate everytime. Even when he attempted, he prioritized saving the victims. Frank is taking out people he deems worthy of the death penalty, Frank is “by any means necessary.” Frank’s grief, the Punisher is a part of him, of course he is going to see Matt’s grief as part of Daredevil. “You lose him. Didn’t you red? You hear him don’t you?”

Frank started out as a corpse on mission for vengeance. He got the people who took his family. He spends his efforts to end the threats permanently. Startling similar to how we first met him.

Matt and Fisk have denied themselves from fully indulging, allowing themselves to lean into their Darker Halves. However, after the events of episode 4, that is clearly going to change. I hope it does in the most explosive way possible.

All of this started from listening to Mother Mother’s - Try to Change

[youruinedmylifebynotbeingreal]

Lesbian Regina George that, pan Karen Shetty that. But what about queer Gretchen Wieners. “What’s Wrong With Me” is RIGHT THERE.

[hello-god-its-me-sara]

Jonathan Crane and his pathologic fear of rejection caused by his separation trauma which is why he goes on his year one killing spree because “you can’t reject me if I reject you first”

[tired-demonspawn]

hey. so.

didnt plan on reading sonic the movie fanfiction of all things, right? right.

but alas the picture of outsider pov mean bean customer witnessing stone pining on main between movies 1 and 2 was so utterly VIVID in my mind i ended up looking some up.

because i mean. the setup is so obvious, it is practically begging to be written and then read by some fanatical idiot like myself. no way an author hasnt yet taken advantage of the premise.

ONLY TO FIND OUT NOBODY HAS

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING?????

(left an essay in the tags, christ 💀)

[tea-cat-arts]

"Madam Yu would be a Karen/ treat minimum wage employees like shit-" literally the only servant she's shown abusing is Wei Wuxian (and that's because he's the victim of a proxy war between her and Jiang Fengmian around the idea of him being adopted into the family, not because of his class). Madam Yu's two handmaid's love and respect her, and Madam Yu actually defends them when Wang Lingjiao tries being a Karen to them. She also tells Wang Lingjiao to fuck off when she demands the Jiang servants bring her tea.

Also, Karens are unpleasant women, but not all unpleasant women are Karens. That term is about entitlement and being unreasonable (and often times, racist). Madam Yu is mean and unpleasant to talk to, but she keeps most of her interactions brief and probably doesn't have the time or mental energy to be a Karen or hold a grudge that long. If you want an actual example of a Karen in mdzs, Wang Lingjiao is right there

[just-sp-in-inginthevoid]

Is it a Takuya-Mikey situation or a Karen-Emma situation

[crezz-star]

DAILY REMINDER

There's no wrong way of pairing characters! There is no WRONG pairings.

If you think there is and you're making reasons to justify it, the problem is ON YOU for not being able to understand the FACT that by the end of the day, all of us are just making paper dolls kiss. That they're not real, and invalidating other pairings by making up reasons about morality and stuff, just makes it obvious you're bitter and honestly it's embarrassing for you.

Don't like the pairing? Don't talk about it. Block it. Block the people who make content of it. Don't look at it. AVOID IT. Cater to your own environment.

✨Be respectful of what others likes✨

✨RESPECTING OTHERS' LIKES AND INTEREST IS FREE. NOT BEING AN A-HOLE IS FREE✨

But what they like makes me angry- Block them and avoid the pairing. But their pairing is weird and gross- Block them and avoid the pairing. But the pairing makes me so uncomfortable- Block them and avoid the pairing. But-- BLOCK THEM AND AVOID THE PAIRING.

[muttsterion]

A nice little fantasy Kenny plot idea for his day. It all starts out with him getting a random ransom note from Professor Chaos or someone saying he has all his superhero friends held hostage at some secret location with directions written in and he better come save them or else. So of course he dawns on his Mysterion costume and quickly follows the directions and it leads to some dark room where he bravely goes in preparing for a fight but he switches on the light and SURPRISE all his friends are there in their superhero costumes surrounding a table with a big cake and gifts sitting on it!

A nice rare moment of Mysterion's usual stoic expression switching to one of temporary confusion to joy forgetting he's still in costume. Butters revealing the others got him to write the ransom note cause they knew it'd get his attention. And yep. Ha.

[twilight-deviant]

What would Foggy and Karen do when they know that Matt is dating Kingpin?

(Hey, sorry it took me so long to answer this. Thanks for the ask. ♥)

Ah, a very difficult matter indeed. Imagine finding out your friend is dating a murdering gangster so industrious he controls all organized crime down the eastern seaboard. (⊙□⊙) I think there would be a lot of, "Are you insane?!" accusations.

This ask maybe had some hopes of a happier answer, but if we're being realistic...

Foggy

I do lean hard into what a good person Foggy is. Though I believe if he found out Matt was dating Fisk, there would be another confrontation/temporary friendship divorce on par with (if not exceeding) the 1x10 Nelson v. Murdock episode. Maybe longer lasting with a feeling of finality like the S2 divorce.

However! I don't believe Foggy would stay mad and keep away from Matt forever. The friendship is too strong. The love is too deep. In both examples, it seems distance to cool off is what helps. So they take some time apart. Foggy spends every day of it expecting Matt to come to his senses and break things off with Fisk. Or for him to say "Psych, the whole thing was a honeypot mission to gather information." Or maybe Matt does end things with Fisk on his own time. (I'll ramble on and on about the foregone tragedy of a FiskMatt relationship never working long term.)

But... say it does work with Fisk, or it works for longer than Foggy can stay mad at Matt. Part of me imagines Foggy just going all-in on denial. You know at the start of S2 when they both know Matt is Daredevil but they try not to think/talk about it because it causes friction? That but Matt's romantic relationship with Fisk. Foggy doesn't want to see the man hanging around. He doesn't want to hear about him. When evidence of the relationship does pop up, it's either ignored or Foggy takes the opportunity to casually nag Matt into better choices. They'd argue about it on occasion, but overall, Foggy isn't going anywhere.

Common Foggy W in episode 3x06: "People have bailed on Matt his whole life, and I'm not gonna be one of them." (Directed at Karen who tried to convince him to not forgive Matt.)

I think if Fisk and Foggy were ever brought into some sort of coexistence in Matt's life, it would be following an extreme event. Like Matt nearly being killed, and they are both present and concerned. Foggy begrudgingly observes that a worried Fisk does care for Matt and his well-being.

Overall though, even if Foggy acknowledged the relationship, I still think he would want to see Fisk as little as possible. There's no all of them hanging out together, but maybe they're both at major events. Maybe Foggy walks into the office as Fisk is on his way out from visiting Matt, and they sort of... awkwardly nod and pass each other.

I think a lot of Foggy's acceptance would hinge on Fisk becoming a better person in some capacity, just as it would for Matt to be dating him in the first place.

And then...

Karen

I tend to avoid Karen entirely in my FiskMatt shipping. Not just because I am a total hater. (I don't want to say #1 hater because there's some a-hole out there who harasses people on pro-Karen posts. I'm like... #1 Isolationist Hater.) But it is difficult with Karen because Fisk has tried to kill her multiple times now. (You'll get her one day, boo.) And she has a whole sanctimonious vendetta against him in return (so single-mindedly focused, people have died in her pursuit). Then on the flipside, Fisk's greatest friend and support was murdered by Karen, who then threw it in his face specifically to upset him. I know Fisk and Matt have the important and featured rivalry of DD, but I also believe it's likely no two characters hate each other as much as Fisk and Karen. (You can get in the weeds about Dex's feelings towards Fisk post-Julie reveal, but blah blah blah.)

So I totally wimp out when writing FiskMatt and don't include Karen. I either won't mention her or imagine we're in some comic-adjacent setting where she died years ago. (Or my current fic where she was Thanos-snapped.) It's a pathetic avoidance of the issue because I KNOW how complicated it would be to overcome, and I guess I should probably address it one day. (〜￣▽￣)〜

It's just hard to pick the line with Karen. She doesn't even condemn murder as much as Matt, given her apologia for Frank in debate with Matt in 2x07. (Also she herself being a murderer with Wesley. Under the flimsy/inaccurate "self-defense" claim.) And then, Karen also dealt drugs in her past and committed/commits other crimes. So I guess the issue with Fisk is... scale? Someone can kill (the right) people, and deal drugs, and break the law, but like... small scale. You can guess at Karen's moral code, but I think at the end of the day, she's the only one who knows what it is.

Maybe it's specifically an "organized" crime thing? Girl hates a racket.

But since the question is what Karen would do if she found out Matt was dating Fisk... I mean, realistically, she'd give him the cold shoulder and avoid seeing him. I think Karen would try to talk/berate some sense into Matt, and it would undoubtedly come with guilt tripping. By reminding Matt who Fisk is and what he's done "just in case he forgot." (I knooow I'm being a hater, but this is canonically what Karen does every time someone disagrees with her. *insert long scroll of examples gif*)

Looking at S2 (when Karen thinks Matt is cheating on her with Elektra... and... Stick?) and S3 flashback (following the S2-Matt-is-Daredevil reveal), that seems to be Karen's decision when she's displeased with Matt. She stops coming around or talking to him. (I know she acts awkward but friendly with him in Defenders, but it's a difficult thing to take this canon into account when it was written by different people with a different agenda and continuity.) But... his apparent death in Defenders does bring her back to the friendship, becoming obsessed over Midland Circle and paying Matt's bills for when he returns. Well, then she gets mad and avoids him again when she finds out Matt was alive but not coming around. Even when Matt apologizes, she prefers to hold onto the grudge a little longer and even questions why Foggy would forgive him. This behavior resolves itself with the severity of The Bulletin massacre. But that's just it! There's always a larger event that compels Karen back into the friendship. It all begs the question of how these resentments would have concluded without external influence!

Sounds like a tangent, I know, but I hope it makes sense why I laid all that out.

I'm basically saying (imo) Karen would not accept the FiskMatt relationship. She would question Matt's own moral character for being with him. (Which is fair since Fisk wants to kill her.) I'm not certain she would come around with time (unlike Foggy), which would make herself and Matt more acquaintances than friends. (Because what could Matt say to make her forgive and forget?) And pending some momentous external event, I don't know what would resolve this rift between them.

I'm aware this is very biased due to my dislike of Karen, but I also can't imagine her reacting any other way. I'm looking at past canon behavior and extrapolating what the fallout might look like. While having nothing to go on regarding how they could fix it. There's a pattern of Matt apologizing but Karen not wanting to hear it.

But... if anyone has a different take or idea, let me know.

In Conclusion...

I think Matt is very aware of how the reveal of his relationship with Fisk could go down. Which is why he would probably keep it secret as long as possible to avoid putting his friends (and himself) in that situation. If it were only Foggy, I can see Matt maybe coming clean eventually. But with Karen involved, I think he would make the decision to never disclose his relationship. When/If it got out, it would be following unintentional discovery or an unavoidable confession. Maybe situations like:

Matt hurt bad enough to be forced to go to the hospital, and for some reason, the best doctor in the city is suddenly there. Also why tf is Wilson Fisk down the hall?

Foggy or Karen or both show up at Matt's apartment without warning to hang out. Ignore him closing the door to his bedroom. There is definitely not a career criminal in there.

Umm... so Matt's pregnant, but who's the father? He won't say, and not revealing the fact is causing its own rift. (But also imagine Matt can't admit the fact to his friends right now, so Fisk tries to be patient. He wants to be involved in the pregnancy and his child's life, but Matt keeps forcing him to remain a dirty secret. How long could it keep going? Would Fisk stop being patient about being excluded?)

Against all odds, Matt's relationship with Fisk goes the distance and they don't break up. How are they supposed to have a life together if Matt's fear forces them to lead separate lives and they can't even live under the same roof?

Just some ideas. But it's always going to be messy, no mistake.

(Errant dark thought... Imagine Matt choosing his friends over Fisk and breaking up with him, even though they don't really want to. Fisk tries to accept that decision, but eventually convinces himself of the notion that "toxic friends" are taking away Matt's choice because it's not what they want. So he arranges an "accident." Then, with the friends out of the picture, Matt will be free to make his own choices. And sure enough, the mourning hero does come back to Fisk for comfort. )

[blackmageeljin]

Y'all I am so fucking tired.

Me: vents about being shit on by doctors and struggling with ND symptoms in public

People: UM!!! AKTUALLY THAT IS NOW HOW YOU TALK ABOUT AUTISM! YOU ARE USING THE WRONG WORDS!!! LIKE I AM SO SORRY ITS HARD FOR YOU BUT UR MAKING IT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE WITH REALER DISORDERS :(((((

Me sitting here, not autistic and never once mentioning autism but with several other ND diagnoses that don't get taken seriously because US culture is a shit show and it doesn't exist if they've never heard of it, am never allowed to self advocate and constantly shut out of both NT and ND spaces for not fitting into the boxes people want, staring at the camera like I am on the office on the verge of tears.

Yes internet, people can 'go nonverbal', it is a real phrase for real symptoms and not just a term for someone permanently mute! No it is not 'just a meltdown' and calling an autistic person's symptoms 'just' anything is completely self defeating anyway, and so is saying I can't use the phrase nonverbal anymore because I have shown improvement in my conditions over the course of decades of hard work! I fucking HATE PEOPLE SO MUCH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[mr-stottlemonk]

stottlemeyer's timeline as promised.

[find monk's timeline here]

[doctorruby]

do you guys have anything else to say about henren other than leave them alone?

[midnaurs]

Martha dobie being 170cm tall is such a jumpscare. Like she has such little wet dog energy. Theres no way

[forever-will-last]

pretty good at being wrong for my whole life; but with you, i know there’s one thing i got right - chapter 6

Rating: Explicit

Ships: Regina George/Cady Heron; Karen Shetty/Gretchen Wieners

Chapter Word Count: 26,424

The sequel to a thousand pictures in my mind; in a painting of the past aka part 3 of the Dead!Aaron AU.