#justice for jiang cheng

[sonik-kun]

Nah, I'm sorry, but Jiang Cheng did NOT consent to receiving Wei Wuxian's golden core. If he did, that scene wouldn't have been as big as a surprise for not only us as the readers but also JC himself.

That scene was a MASSIVE plot twist. It wouldn't have been had JC consented or demanded that WWX hand over his core to him.

Not only that, if it was all completely consensual, WWX and the Wen siblings wouldn't have had to have kept that secret hidden from JC and the rest of the world for all those years. It would have become public knowledge. And who knows, it may have even paved the way for future core transplant surgeries. But it didn't. Because it was kept in secret and it was kept in secret for a reason.

Because Jiang Cheng would have never agreed to it.

Jiang cheng was lead to believe that he would get HIS OWN core back from Boashan Sanren. He was never told it would be a core transplant. He was lead to believe he would be receiving a new core of his own. Especially since this Boashan Sanren was a fabled woman, known for her inhuman abilities.

Why else would WWX mislead JC up the mountain, blindfolded, and told him to pretend that he was WWX? He did so because he knew that JC would never consent to Wen Qing experimenting on him, on top of removing WWX's core and putting it into his own body.

WWX knew that JC would NEVER agree to that, that's why he made the whole thing up.

So whilst WWX and the Wen siblings were acting within JC's best interests, it was still nonconsenual. He didn't agree to that surgery. Your idea of medical consent is completely skewed if you think otherwise.

Patients always have the right to withdraw consent and reject treatment. And they should always be made aware of what treatment and surgeries they will be receiving in order to accept or reject said treatment.

So yes, by modern medical law standards, it was nonconsenual surgery.

For the sake of fiction and it being in an ancient setting, I'll let it slide and not apply such logic here in WWX's case. But if we're really going to go there and argue the ethics behind it, I'll stand here and say that it was completely nonconsenual, and JC had every right to be upset by it. Especially since said surgery cost WWX his life, which JC was more than willing to sacrifice his OWN LIFE for.

[randomness-is-my-order]

since i’m on my third mdzs brainrot of the year, let me just say: it’s enlightening how this story, spread over multiple volumes, goes over the simple but undeniably true reality that even while doing almost everything “right” you can still be horribly “wrong” in the eyes of society. how wei wuxian would bend over backwards to follow his morals (which have been narratively shown to be somewhat the standard) but still be condemned at large because he didn’t go about it the way that was perfectly compliant with what his social superiors and other authority figures expected of him. how “good” deeds in the mdzs world (and ours) will only be accepted and praised, coming from someone of lower social standing, if they are packaged in an unobstrusive manner–and sometimes, not even then. and it’s funny how some people miss that, how they wonder what would have happened if wei wuxian had been just a bit more tempered, a bit more subservient, a bit more polite. how the expectation of delivering his kindnesses in the most unhindering manner possible is somehow an acceptable train of thought–how the burden to do better is not unequivocally placed on people like JGS, Jiang Cheng, Nie Mingjue, the Lans, etc.

some people think that wei wuxian using demonic cultivation in the eyes of the cultivation world is his downfall. nevermind the fact that he literally isn’t practicing mo dao–this whole issue is NOT about what he’s doing, but about who he is. mxtx has made that clear at multiple points in the novels but the most glaring example is, ofcourse, how the nie sect is allowed to mess with resentful energy all they like and since they are a powerful enough sect, they face no social or political backlash for it–not in the way that wei wuxian does. even then, during the war, those people had no qualms against weaponising wei wuxian’s powers for their benefit. if it truly was about the dubious morality of using mo dao for them then wei wuxian should have been condemned from the get-go. but it’s not. it’s about the son of a servant wielding enough power to change the tides of a war and then surviving to tell the tale and continue to live with the kind of power that shouldn’t be held by someone of his station. it’s about people quaking in their boots because wei wuxian has shown himself as someone who won’t conform, who won’t become a dancing monkey for their tunes.

yes, wei wuxian is not some perfect angel saint but then, why the fuck should he be??? this expectation from some readers and the members of his world alike, that wei wuxian should have been the one to give it his all and more to avoid conflict is blasphemous. in the end, wei wuxian chose his path, stuck to his ideals, and went down throwing a big fuck you at the larger cultivation world’s back, while the rest failed to break the cycle of power abuse. the fact that it took them more than a year to see him to death is just a testament to how well wei wuxian handled things than some grace given by the cultivation world. the whole “wei wuxian’s first death was inevitable” is, for me, not about wei wuxian slowly spiralling and things getting out of hand. his death was inevitable because corrupt people with power will always choose to exploit and silence, will always choose to exert their will, will always choose to hurt those lower in the chain. and that is exactly what happened with the ambush and everything that led upto it.

[incorrectly-quoting-mxtx]

Jiang Cheng: Personally I blame you.

Wei Wuxian: How is this my fault?!

Jiang Cheng: Because then it would be my fault and that can’t be right.

[eastofaeon]

i think the closest i'll ever come to loving myself is loving characters that share my flaws only i can love them regardless because they're not me

[bornfreakdraws]

For the ask game, F and V?

[the ask game]

F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom?

Ooh, tricky question! It's hard to say because I've consistently been into DBZ since before I started drawing (and when I did start drawing on the internet, my first fan arts where DBZ fan arts) but I never kept up with the new series and eventually stopped making fan art for it. The longest on record that I've actively been in a fandom is probably Castlevania (since it came out, so since 2017, it's been 7 years oh god)

V - Which character do you relate to most?

Not the most (because honestly I don't relate that much to any of them), but one of the last characters I identified with was Jiang Cheng from 'The Untamed' / 'MDZS' because I too am very dramatic, angry and emotionally repressed (and possibily aroace)

I also definitely come across as aggressive, especially when I'm expressing care/concern (it comes out as a lecture).

[kumomist]

i actually kinda like the ending... cause honestly in the end wei ying got burned way too much by the cultivation world and was through with it, and as much as lan zhan is on wei ying's side, he cant leave the sects unchecked, especially with the way they easily turned on wei ying, and then jin guangyao too without thinking of evidence and being suspicious of the scenario

essentially wei ying deserves to be free from the judgement and the societal expectations (not using a sword, crafty tricks, etc), while lan zhan is choosing to stay and keep them in check so that history doesnt happen again

[wutheringskies]

the moment when Wei Ying goes in, hook, line and sinker for me - when he starts chasing LWJ around, wanting his attention, wanting to ruffle him - is when LWJ, intent on punishing Wei Ying, takes punishment himself, unashamedly. Until that point in his life, everyone had skirted off their responsibilities, or fallen into his charms, given into his "deals" - who is exempt to a little bribery anyway? Which child will be stringent upon their idea of righteousness when one could hunt pheasants and have fun instead? Well, the Second Jade of Lan would.

Throughout MDZS, we see - Lan Wangji's understanding and ideas of "righteousness" be challenged, but instead of turning a blind eye all his life (like Xichen), or sticking to his own path unchallenged (like Mingjue), he repents, grows and changes. But the core value that isn't lost in him is his stubbornness to stick to righteousness. In his childhood it was synonymous to the clan rules. Later, it is not.

I think this is what attracted Wei Wuxian to Lan Wangji so intensely. He grew up being a sort of leader, or the care taker - whether it be on the streets among ragtags, among the Jiang shidis and shimeis, or later, among the disciples gathered at Cloud Recesses. But for the first time he sees another sort of leader.

Jiang Wanyin, limbs intact, family safe and secure, doesn't want to help anybody, or take any initiatives during the Wen Indoctrination Arc. Lan Wangji, nearly lost a leg, nearly lost his dad, his brother, his sect burnt, humiliated by the Wens, with all odds against his favour still chooses to protect a harassed girl being put up as bait for a monster.

He is the person Wei Wuxian wants to be.

After Wei Wuxian's death, he repents, relaxes around the rules, teaches his disciples to question what they're taught, like a silent thunderstorm. He's not the "calm to Wei Wuxian's chaos." For Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian remains not just as a lover he couldn't hold, but also as righteousness he couldn't possess. He aspires to be like Wei Wuxian, to truly leave behind all of the world and do what is required, to be true to his title.

Both of them see each other as emblems of righteousness. Both of them share the same values.

And the stand for righteousness isn't fair at all! It's not easy. Born to a world where the worst of vermin crawl, where living people hold onto as much resentment as the dead, unable to let go and be free, it is a punishing task.

Wei Wuxian dies for what he believes in; is brought back to life via another's sacrifice in another's goal of vengeance as a knife and has to deal with it. Lan Wangji has to bear 33 discipline marks onto his body for all his verg long life span, call for a soul that will never return, and go on in such a world. Xiao Xingchen was fooled and has to take his life in repentance of the pain he had caused despite following the righteous path; but now his soul is held by a friend he trusts along with another friend he trusts and he will, one day, be whole again.

Jiang Wanyin is like a really...cheap, a very seemingly mortal character compared to these people. He believes his pain is absolute. Refuses to let go of it and see how meaningless it is.

Novel quotes that were sitting in my drafts and my thoughts 

It is canon that JC’s own people are afraid of approaching him with their concerns. The people of his territory don’t approach the Jiangs for help unless the matter is deadly. This is supported by novel text. This is the state of YungmengJiang after it is one of the remaining three great sects, an economic, political, and martial powerhouse.

Ch 92 - Longing Part 3 (Exiled Rebels translation)

The owner, “That I’m not so sure about. Anyways, the temple’s quite popular. In Yunping City, no matter what someone runs into, we’d all go there and pray for the Guanyin’s protection. I sometimes go there and light a few sticks of incense too.”

Wei WuXian asked, “Then why don’t you go find the cultivational sect that’s in charge of this region?”

He only remembered after he asked. Wasn’t the cultivational sect in charge of this region precisely the YunmengJiang Sect?

Yet, the owner curled her lips, “Go find them? How dare we?”

Wei WuXian, “Oh? Why not?”

The owner, “Young Masters, you’re not from Yunping City so you don’t know. The Jiang Sect is responsible for all of us along the Yunmeng area. The Sect Leader’s got quite a bad temper. It’s almost frightening. His subordinate’s said so a long time ago. Only one sect is in charge of such a large area. Each day, there are almost a hundred cases of small ghosts or other creatures pulling pranks on the living and all that. If every single small thing had to be dealt with immediately, would there be enough time and energy? Those that don’t kill anyone aren’t malign spirits, and we’re not supposed to disturb them with trivial matters that aren’t malign spirits.” She complained, “What is this supposed to mean? Wouldn’t it be too late if we waited until somebody’s died to find them?!

No way would WWX let a his sect be actively feared by people they are supposed to protect.

There are a few other examples that I can’t really spend time to find. There was no lack of economic resources at this point. I don’t think there was any sort of disadvantage even after the SSC, because they would’ve gotten back their money after it and divided Wen assets among themselves. Yungmeng would have gotten a fair share of the plunder because it was one of the main sects active in the war.

JC had every opportunity at this point to say, ‘look we owe these particular Wens a life debt.’ That’s all he has to say to have honor on his side. They don’t need to risk anything because even JGS wouldn’t be able to say anything against a debt of honor. NMJ and LXC would both support him. 

JGS was only able to get so far because JC played right into his hands. There are several scenes with JC letting his anger and envy get the best of him. One in particular, where some cultivators gossip that people only joined YunmengJiang because of WWX and his power. JC refused to speak up as a direct response to that.

(WWX has already proven he doesn’t forget about debts)

That very same conversation indicates that by the time Pheonix Mountain situation happened, YunmengJiang was already in a good position. JGS didn’t take advantage of YMJ’s economic and martial weakness (the text indicates that they were sufficiently recovered by this point if i’m not mistaken). In fact, YMJ received a big influx of seasoned cultivators just after this incident and before WWX’s defection. He took advantage of JC’s insecurities and his willingness to cast WWX aside if it benefited his sect.

Jin GuangShan, “Sect Leader Jiang, Wei Ying is your right-hand man. You value him a lot. All of us know this. However, on the other hand, it’s hard to tell whether or not he actually respects you. In any case, I’ve been a sect leader for so many years and I’ve never seen the servant of any sect dare be so arrogant, so proud. Have you heard what they say outside? Things like how during the Sunshot Campaign the victories of the YunmengJiang Sect were all because of Wei WuXian alone—what nonsense!”

Going further back, my original point was - there was a foreshadowing of their ideological differences way back in the Dusk-Creek mountain incident.

Ch 52 - Courage Part 2 (Exiled Rebels translation)

Wei WuXian, “It’s alright if he hates me—I don’t hate him. I’ll get him onto my back the second I get hold of him. Could he possibly choke me to death while on my back?”

Jiang Cheng warned, “We aren’t even able to care for ourselves; how do we have the time to care about the trivialities of others?”

Wei WuXian, “First, this isn’t a triviality. Second, things like this, somebody will have to care about them, sooner or later!”

WWX’s first instinct is to help people. JC’s first instinct is to protect themselves. This keeps on happening again and again.

When they returned to the Lotus Pier, JC scolded WWX for trying to play the hero and was scolded by his own father to reconsider the words. (This wasn’t favoritism, this was a dad telling his son that scolding someone for saving people’s lives isn’t the right thing to do and he should consider his words)

Both of these incidences are just few of the many examples scattered throughout the novel. These are possibly the earliest indications of their ideologies being materially different. WWX would be an excellent second hand but he’s no Wen Zhuliu. If his leader doesn’t live up to his expectations of morality and righteousness, he isn’t going to stay. He may linger for a long while but eventually he’ll start to feel complicit and would want to take a different path. He fell in love with LWJ because LWJ was righteous and morally superior to others in the novel, after all.

So to conclude - JC actually didn’t want to help the Wens, text clearly states he hated them. This man planned and lead a siege even after seeing a small child at the BM.

YMJ wasn’t actually in that bad a state. It was recovering but so were the Jins. They didn’t get away from the war unscathed. YMJ had money and several new, trained cultivators.

Bear in mind, during their staged fight, JC gutted WWX while WWX broke his arm. As in, his intestines legit fell out. The fact that he recovered quickly doesn’t matter. It was a near fatal wound and WWX has very few resources at his disposal. He was living in near poverty. That trip to the BM is a grace that JC could give without spending too much effort.

idk if I have expressed my point properly. But it covers as many points as I can recall off the top of my head. Unless JC’s character changed in some significant ways, I still think they would eventually have a falling out. The are examples littered throughout the novel about their core ideals, their very character clashing in significant ways. 

[letteredlettered]

Hi! I would love to read a JC and WWX post and how it is diff from what you’ve seen in western media!

I'd already started writing a JC post, so I wrapped that in to answer your question.

I follow a few JC fans so I see the backlash to the haters more than I see any haters, but apparently there’s some question in some people’s mind about whether Jiang Cheng loves Wei Wuxian, and I find that a little silly. That said, I think that to understand MDZS’s JC at all, you cannot just read the surface, so if you’re not thinking about him as a person or giving him any consideration beyond what other characters say and think of him, you’re not doing him justice. You’re also not going to see that he loves WWX and also loves several other people quite deeply, because a) JC's never going to be affectionate in his dialogue, b) JC's not going to even be affectionate in his body language or minor actions, and c) WWX, the main viewpoint character, is never once going to think about whether JC likes him or loves him.

Lots of posts have outlined better than I will how deeply loves not only WWX, but also his family, in particular JL. The short version is: JC’s his major flaws are all related to him loving his parents and getting shown very little affection in return—none at all from his father and only some in a backhanded way from his mother, usually in comparison to WWX.

As for Jin Ling, JC threatens him all the time, and even shoves him around a bit, but Jin Ling obviously adores JC and feels adored. JC is the one Jin Ling goes to when he's crying; JC is also the one who leaps to JL's side when JL is hurt. JL knows he's in trouble with JC when JL does something unsafe, but JL knows that his own safety is the most important thing in JC's life. Tellingly, JL rarely takes any of JC's threats seriously, and even tells other people said threats are bogus.

Then there’s WWX. Even while JC is berating WWX endlessly for making their clan look bad, he is literally carrying around WWX on his back. He is protecting WWX with everything he has. He sacrifices himself to the Wens to WWX won't get caught. After their falling out, after WWX lied to him for years and got their sister killed, JC still can't even stop himself from protecting WWX when WWX might get hurt by JGY's guqin string.

The guy is willing to throw himself on the fire for anyone he loves. Just heaven forbid he express any of it. But because he does not express love through speech, Wei Wuxian (who I will point out is a talker) doesn't understand this about Jiang Cheng—and this is shown to be a consistent flaw that WWX has. He also does not understand that LWJ is in love with him, despite LWJ defying all of society to follow him around and lift him onto donkeys whenever WWX gets droopy.

But I'd add the pretty much no one, other than Jin Ling, understands this about Jiang Cheng. If the cultivation world had understood JC, they would not have believed that JC and WWX had actually had a falling out. Part of the reason people don't know him is the same reason JC has such a terrible time with everything—WWX steals everyone's attention, praise, and fear wherever they go. No one is really looking at JC to admire his devotion or his loyalty, because WWX is there, doing it better than him, always. Imagine LWJ+WWX hadn’t defeated the Tortoise of Slaughter and had just been holed up in that cave for six days. All anyone would’ve talked about was how deeply JC must love his shixiong to make it back in such record time. It would all be “heroic rescue” this “unflagging loyalty” that. But instead, LWJ+WWX  had to really just steal the limelight.

In fact, the book is partly about the fact that people don't analyze people's actions too deeply. They believe what they hear. They believe what they want to believe. JC really can just say "I reject WWX" and they believe it. JGS can really just say "WWX is evil" and they believe it. Everybody says LWJ is perfect, so they believe he can't be a cut-sleeve who is in love with WWX. And WWX, who knows better than anyone that rumors aren't true, believes it too.

Even after WWX's death, JC's reputation is locked onto WWX. I do think this is JC’s own fault, given that he can’t accept his brother’s death and is obsessed with him but idk. Canon demonstrates that there’s a huge difference between what JC says he’ll do if he finds WWX and what JC actually does, and it’s not because LWJ is in the way. But no one really seems to pay attention to the difference between what JC says and what he actually does when the chips are down, except JL, so it’s no wonder everyone says he has torture dungeons, no matter how ludicrous that is.

I think what makes JC’s love for WWX particularly complex, and particularly incomprehensible in the eyes of the cultivation world, is WWX's position in JC's family. JC thought of WWX as a brother. He loved him like a brother. And yet JC was deeply aware that WWX wasn't his brother. JC's mom made sure that JC was deeply aware of that at all times, and you know what, so did his dad. And then, the rest of the cultivation world constantly talked about the fact that WWX was not a part of the family, that the Jiang Clan raised him like a son but he was really the son of a servant. MXTX expertly shows that this fact gets trotted out whenever WWX does something questionable--when WWX is brilliant, he's a lauded member of the clan, but when he is bad, he is of low-birth and adopted through charity. The truth is, it’s an unusual relationship for a world in which there’s a pretty big different between your clan (blood relatives) and sect.

How can JC hold both of these truths in his head? What makes it bearable for JC is that when they grow up, JC will be the Sect Leader and WWX will be his right-hand man; they will do everything together; they will be brilliant together; they never have to worry about blood or debt then, because then it won't matter whether they're brothers or best friends; the difference won't matter. They can both be the head of a family that they love. Except that doesn't happen.

JC’s parents die, and WWX disappears. I will, at this point in my understanding and credit to Jiang Cheng, say that the part about JC I find hardest to swallow is that he partially blames his parents' death on WWX. Yes, WWX stayed behind in the cave of the Tortoise of Slaughter to save LWJ, and yes, this meant that Wen Chao and WLJ have a particular grudge against him, which they use as partial excuse to attack Lotus Pier, but by god, that's a stretch. Lotus Pier would have been attacked anyway, and the fact that JC even partly blames the attack on WWX has far more to do with what his mom said about WWX showing off for the glory and bringing down the wrath of the Wens than it has to do with reality. YZY is going to say anything she can about how WWX being a hero with the Tortoise of Slaughter was actually a bad thing, because it's so fucking painful for her that WWX is a fucking legend when her son just . . . isn't.

As JGY points out, they were in fact the strongest sect once WWX comes back from the Burial Mounds and fights the Sunshot Campaign with JC. They could have been the power couple of JC’s dreams, but just as YZY pits JC against WWX, the cultivation world after the war pitted WWX against themselves and by extension, JC, and JC buys into it. I find this super understandable, and I think it’s pretty unfair to expect JC to be more understanding of WWX, given that WWX is constantly lying to him. Similarly, I think it’s pretty understandable that he doesn’t understand the plight of the Wens, given that WWX doesn’t explain it to him at all. From JC’s POV, WWX just leaves, at a time when JC really needs him, and he does it on a crusade for unrelated people—as though he never considered himself part of the family in the first place.

And you know what, that may be WWX’s POV too. He loves the Jiang family like his own family, but he’s also deeply aware that he is not blood. MXTX makes it very clear in canon that WWX felt that he owed the Jiang Clan, and not in the way you owe a family. That is—he doesn’t owe them his existence, but he thinks he does owe them his core and his cultivation. And he gives it all to JC.

I outlined above that the relationship between JC and WWX is unusual in the cultivation world given that they each feel like the other is family but are consistently reminded of the fact, and pressured to believe, that they are only sect siblings and that WWX is actually a subordinate. I also haven’t found many relationships like this in other media—though I’ll point out once again that my experience is mainly with western media. I think the closest things I can think of are stories in which the parties are of a different class but are raised together for whatever reason—because they actually are somewhat related but one of them has low class relatives, or because they were not as well-supervised in their youth but  one of them suddenly comes into money and is forced to leave his low-class BFF behind, etc.

Given that this relationship is unusual, you don’t see a lot of situations like WWX’s, in which WWX feels like he owes the Jiang family his golden core and then gives it to him. But there’s another element to this sacrifice that I’ve only seen in one other piece of media, and that’s the fact that WWX knows that JC can’t live without being special, and WWX thinks he can handle it.

There is so much in western media about brothers giving up their lives to protect their brothers (Supernatural), or even just giving up their dreams and ambitions so that their brother can follow his own dreams instead (It’s a Wonderful Life). But these sacrifices are always framed as “I love him so much,” or “It’s my duty” or “I couldn’t live with myself if he didn’t get what he wanted” and sometimes even, “I can handle the suffering and I don’t want him to live with it.” But there’s something about WWX’s “eh it’s not a big deal to me  and it is to him” or his “bro’s kinda petty and can’t get over himself, whatchu gonna do” that feels stupidly singular.

WWX never says it isn’t a big deal. He never said that it didn’t hurt or that he didn’t make a sacrifice. He never said JC was pathetic or a loser or anything that diminishes JC or makes him less than he is. What he says is that JC is always competitive and comparing himself to others, which is true. But the other sacrifices in fiction that come close are a little more “I don’t want you to have to suffer” or even “I’m strong, and you’re weak, so I’ll take on this burden for you.” Meanwhile WWX doesn’t think JC is weak, and while WWX doesn’t want to suffer, he certainly doesn’t want to suffer himself. The sentiment feels closer to “you need to feel special so I’ll make that happen for you,” and there’s something about it that is a little condescending.

I mentioned that I’ve only seen this kind of thing one other time, and it was in a baseball anime called Touch that aired in Japan in the 1980s. Touch is a story about twins, one of whom is smart, talented, and works hard. The other twin, Tatsuya, is good in school and good at baseball, but at first seems like a lazy guy who only cares about joking around and having fun. Then you find out he’s a genius and a one-in-a-lifetime talent, but just never bothered to focus on anything because he’s so stupidly good at everything that he would just show his brother up, and his brother cares about excelling and Tatsuya doesn’t, so he just…was careful to never apply himself to anything.

WWX isn’t Tatsuya, in that when they’re on an even playing field, WWX doesn’t really seem to have any compunctions about showing off. But as soon as the playing field becomes uneven, he also has no compunctions about destroying himself so that JC’s competitive spirit is satisfied. There’s something about it that has a flavor of “I’m better than you,” even if it’s never what WWX meant to communicate. No wonder JC feels like a clown.

Like, in the end, WWX kind of did make a fool of JC, even though WWX did it out of both love and loyalty. I'm not sure I've ever read or seen anything else where such a sacrifice has such ambiguity, and it really makes the WWX+JC relationship one of the most complicated I've seen.

[eiyriny]

Since I'm being jumped by JC antis for pointing out their double standards, let’s dissect the debts owed by Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, shall we?

Wei Wuxian's Debt to the Jiang Clan:

Wei Wuxian’s debt to the Jiang Clan is immense by ancient Chinese standards. He was saved, taken in, raised, and trained by them, essentially given a new life and a future as a cultivator. In traditional chinese culture, this kind of debt would require a lifetime of loyalty and service to repay. However, Wei Wuxian chose to protect the Wen Remnants, a decision driven by his personal moral beliefs and sense of justice, effectively putting his principles over his obligations to the Jiang Clan. This choice made it impossible for him to repay his debt in the way ancient values would have dictated, as he directly went against Jiang Cheng's leadership and the interests of the Jiang Clan.

Jiang Cheng's Debt to the Wen Siblings:

Jiang Cheng’s debt to Wen Qing and Wen Ning is also significant—they saved his life and ensured his parents' bodies were returned with dignity. The expected repayment from him would traditionally involve some form of reciprocal protection or aid, such as offering them sanctuary, advocating for their safety, or using his influence to speak on their behalf. However, as the new leader of the Jiang Clan struggling to rebuild after the Sunshot Campaign, his first duty was to his own clan's survival. Repaying this personal debt to the Wen siblings would have required protecting the Wen Remnants, which would have risked his clan's stability and political standing. In the end, his obligations as a sect leader took priority.

The Double Standard:

So here’s the issue, antis love to criticize Jiang Cheng for not sacrificing everything to repay the Wen siblings, judging him by the standard of traditional cultural values. But when it comes to Wei Wuxian, they switch to a modern standard claiming "children aren’t expected to repay their caretakers," to dismiss his debt to the Jiang Clan. If we’re judging both characters by the same standard of "repaying debts," the fact is, both made choices based on their circumstances. Jiang Cheng prioritized his clan's survival, and Wei Wuxian chose his moral beliefs. To condemn one while excusing the other is just hypocritical.

[sonik-kun]

I hate that people try to make out that Jiang Cheng's perceived jealousy is what makes him an awful person. When bear in mind, my mans was being compared and pitted against an actual child prodigy since they were very young. A child prodigy he was able to keep up with on his own merit, might I add. All his efforts either ignored, demeaned, or gone without any recognition.

It's like let's see you try and be a mentally stable, jealous free person when all your life you are reminded of your own shortcomings, you are told you don't fit the family moto despite you striving to do so. That you will never amount to greatness the child prodigy you're compared to will easily achieve. That you are simply not good enough. I'm sure you all would have handled that reaaaaal well *sarcasam*

Also, whoever brushes off JFM's blatant neglect and justifies hating JC (a CHILD might I add) because he reminds him of Madame Yu is a bit sus tbh. There is no justifying how he treated JC. And how JC turned out is all ENTIRELY his parents' fault. Stop absolving them of any responsibility.

[esoteric-oracle]

//long rambles ahead!

I think what really lingers with me about MDZS is that it's not a novel with a cathartic ending at all. It's a bittersweet story that leaves you slightly hollow. Yes, it's a beautiful and epic romance. It's a piece of social commentary interwoven with a love story and murder mystery. It's a cautionary tale. But it is also very much a tragedy. It's a story about being too late, second chances, and moving on.

By the time the truth of everything JGY and JGS did comes to light, it's 13 years too late. Everything that mattered has already happened. Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan are long dead. Jin Ling is still an orphan. Wen Ning is dead, and sometime in the future, his death will be permanent. Wen Qing was burned to death at the stake for no fault of her own. Nie Mingjue has already spent ten years in a no-doubt agonizing state of un-death, and Lan Xichen will have to bear the guilt of loving both Nie Mingjue and Jin Guangyao, and by doing so, forsaking them both. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's once-close bond is irrevocably broken, and the woman who sowed the seeds of resentment when they were still children will never face the consequences of her vitriol.

People sometimes say MXTX was too hard on the side characters, and only gave the Wangxian a happy ending, but what stuck with me after finishing the story is how… sad things are. Yes, Wangxian finally get the happy ending they've deserved for nearly 20 years - but at the same time, it's not a happy ending where the people who've wronged them get the consequences they deserve.

Wei Wuxian will spend the rest of his life haunted by guilt and loss, over what happened to Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan, over the loss of the Wen remnants. The rest of his years won't even be lived in the body his parents gave him.

Lan Wangji will spend the rest of his years wondering if he'd chosen to stand with Wei Wuxian when it mattered - would his son have had to grow up without his birth family?

Nie Huaisang is left wondering if his brother had been a little less trusting and had never taken Meng Yao in as a Nie deputy, would his brother have died a less wretched death? Would he have been forced to stoop to ruthless machinations and manipulations to seek some semblance of justice?

Wen Ning will have to live with the knowledge that if he'd been a little less kind, if he'd let Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng die that fateful day - his family would still be alive. The Wens would've won the war; Wen Qing might've even succeeded Wen Ruohan.

No one really gets the ending they deserve. MDZS isn't a story where good people get happy endings, and bad people get their dues. Sure, Jin Guangyao's crimes are revealed and he faces the consequences of his actions. But what about the people who stood by and made him into a monster? If anything, the side characters and antagonists who survive get better than they deserve. The real villain of MDZS - society - will never face retribution. Those cultivators who always believed in their own bigotry and righteousness over and over again, will never face justice.

Do you think those cultivators and the public will ever feel any regret for the innocent people they condemned to death in their own prejudice and blind self-righteousness? Do you think the people who gathered at Nightless City to call for Wei Wuxian's death considered for one second that he was the biggest reason they won the war? When the cultivators who sacked the Wen settlement at the Burial Mounds threw the bodies of the Wens into the blood pool, do you think that was a sign of shame?

Do you think Jiang Cheng will ever regret leading a siege on a small settlement of innocent farmers? Do you think he's haunted by condemning to death the same people whom he owes his life to?

Do you think those people like Yao-zongzhu will ever feel an ounce of remorse for so easily believing rumours and hearsay, and spreading speculation and vitriol about innocent people?

Do you think that unnamed cultivator out there will ever lose a single minute of sleep over smashing in Wen Popo's head?

In the years that follow, Wen Ning will have apologized a hundred times for lives he did not take, crimes he did not commit, because of the name he bears. People, both in-universe, and even readers, will condemn him for actions he could not help, for doing the right thing. But did Jiang Cheng ever apologize for killing his family? Did the Jins ever apologize for their horrific treatment of people in the labour camps?

People will continue to demand that Wei Wuxian apologize for causing the deaths of their friends and family. But how is Wei Wuxian meant to do that? No one ever apologized to him for taking his family away. No one ever apologized for condemning the Wen Remnants to death for crimes they took no part in. The Wens were his family too.

There's so much potential for bitterness and corruption in MDZS. Instead of saving everyone, Wei Wuxian could've stood aside and let the people who tried to kill him die. MDZS could've been a story of succumbing to hatred and grief, but it wasn't. MXTX could've gone on and on about how society wronged the protagonist, but she didn't. The narrative is one of forgiveness and moving beyond past grievances. The story chose to close the story on a positive note. I truly love that aspect of MDZS, where MXTX leaves just enough room for hope and love at the end.

A-Yuan will finally get his closure about the family he lost as a toddler. Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian get their happy ending together after being separated by nearly two decades by war, miscommunication, cruelty, and death.

Wei Wuxian will never regret protecting survivors of an attempted genocide, because it was the right thing to do.

And Wen Ning will still stand in the way and take a fatal blow meant for Jin Ling, despite everything the Jins and Jiang Cheng did to the people he loved.

Because they chose love. Characters like Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning and Lan Wangji have the chance to move on and live a happier life because when they could've succumbed to hurt and fury and resentment, they chose to be kind and do the right thing. Wangxian get their happy ending because they learn to recognize the toxicity of the cultivation society's self-cannibalizing prejudice, and chose to pursue righteousness above personal benefit.

MDZS isn't a story about good people getting good things. Just look at what happened to Xiao Xingchen. There's really nothing satisfying or cathartic about everyone's fates at all. There's no promise about society facing the consequences of their mob mentality or Wangxian actually changing the world together. Even in TGCF, for all its makings of a love story, we get the promise of societal change once Jun Wu is deposed.

It has all the makings to be a tragedy or tale of vengeance of epic proportions - but instead, it's a love story. It's a story about making the best of what you've got, and staying true to yourself and your morals, even if that's sometimes a bitter pill to swallow. It's a story where everything that could go wrong went wrong, but the characters still managed to fight their way to a better ending by choosing kindness. At its core, MDZS is a testament to choosing compassion over cruelty no matter how tragic and hopeless life gets, no matter how long the journey gets. Even though the happy ending is more personal and only applies to the specific characters, even though we don't actually get the promise of their society becoming a better place - we still have the hope that Wei Wuxian's second chance brings. The hope that sometimes, no matter how cruel the world is, some people who deserve it still get their happy endings. That's what makes MDZS such a memorable work of art. That's why it stays with you.

[qiu-yan]

a lot of what nie mingjue does makes sense if you consider his specific code of ethics, his position, and the fact that he's known for pretty much his entire life that his cultivation path will kill him and has accepted this fact entirely....but the one thing i don't understand is why he swore brotherhood with jin guangyao. from nie mingjue's point of view, jin guangyao is already the guy who faked a suicide to escape from nie mingjue after nie mingjue tried to bring him to justice for straight-up murder, and that's not even getting into all the fear, anger, and trauma nie mingjue must still be bearing from the wen yao confrontation at nightless city. why would you want to tie yourself via sworn brotherhood to someone who has already done all this shit to you?

consider also the fact that nie mingjue knows his saber cultivation will lead him to become more unstable, impair his judgment, and may even affect his perceptions of reality - which means that he needs confidants he can trust. jin guangyao, via the whole suicide gambit, has already proven to nie mingjue that he is not trustworthy. so if nie mingjue knows that trustworthiness is necessary and that trust is something he's going to need, why would he choose to tie himself to someone he already thinks of as untrustworthy?

some potential reasons i can think of (written from nie mingjue's pov, so they might read uncharitably):

first (1), there's nie mingjue's stated reason of "wanting to correct jin guangyao from the path of evil" (something along those lines). there's at least two different ways you can take this:

1A: nie mingjue wants to do this in order to protect others from jin guangyao: first, nie mingjue sees jin guangyao as an emerging threat no one else has yet recognized, and so wants to keep an eye on jin guangyao / keep him in check. if jin guangyao can be "corrected to the righteous path," then fewer innocent people suffer. second, nie mingjue wants to protect lan xichen from jin guangyao. from nie mingjue's pov, lan xichen has been completely taken in by jin guangyao's charm, so jin guangyao could pose a danger to him as well; by inserting himself into the sworn brotherhood, nie mingjue can be there to protect lan xichen.

1B: nie mingjue wants to do this in order to save jin guangyao himself: nie mingjue still loves jin guangyao and wants to save jin guangyao from the path of evil, for jin guangyao's own sake. confucius (and aristotle, and marx, and a whole bunch of other dudes) does say that if you see your friend doing something morally wrong, then as their friend you have a duty towards them specifically to object to their behavior.

second (2), there are also some more practical / political reasons:

2A: the sworn brotherhood secures a more stable future for nie huaisang, since it entails long-term connections with the jin and the lan.

2B: a sworn brotherhood between high-profile members of different sects after the ordeal of the sunshot campaign could help in encouraging more postwar intersect unity, which would be necessary and beneficial in a time period in which everyone's still struggling to recover from the war. this sworn brotherhood ties the jin, the lan, and the nie together as allies, meaning they can share resources and information as they rebuild. of course, this does entail the exclusion of the jiang - but my personal opinion is that they all lowkey expected jiang cheng to fail and for the jiang to decline / be absorbed by another sect.

third and finally (3), there are the simple interpersonal reasons, unrelated to morality or politics:

3A: nie mingjue still cares for jin guangyao and therefore still wants a relationship with him. at the moment he swore brotherhood, he was still willing to try and mend things with jin guangyao.

3B: nie mingjue wants to make lan xichen happy, and lan xichen clearly wants the sworn brotherhood.

3C: if nie mingjue refuses to swear brotherhood, lan xichen may very well go ahead and swear brotherhood with jin guangyao anyways. which would lead to lan xichen and jin guangyao becoming closer, while lan xichen by contrast drifts further way from nie mingjue.

probably some aspect of all of these (plus some other reasons i forgot) are true at once. what's interesting, though, is that one can construct two overlapping yet also separate categories of reasons - separated by whether one believes nie mingjue still holds personal affection for jin guangyao or not.

[simply-whump]

Strange Tales of Jiang Cheng (江城诡事) - Whump List

Whumpee : Qin Huo Le played by Xia Zhi Guang and Song He played by Caesar Wu

Synopsis : In the early years of the Republic of China, the situation in Jiangzhou in the southwest region was chaotic, which led to frequent spies. Qin Huo Le, who returned from studying abroad, met detective captain Song He and with the help of the quirky female forensic doctor Fan Xiao Fan, the three of them worked together to solve 8 bizarre murder cases and bring justice to the world. (MDL)

Genres : Thriller, Mystery, Investigation, Bromance

Warning! Possible spoilers below!

Qin Huo Le

Ep 1 : None

Ep 2 : (01:35) Arm twisted — (11:35) Throwing up

Ep 3-4 : None

Ep 5 : (12:5) Choked

Ep 6 : (08:55) Crying

Ep 7 : (11:30) Am twisted — (11:55) In handcuffs 

Ep 8 : (06:10) Knife at his neck, captured, hands and feet tied, gagged (Gif Set)

Ep 9 : (0:50) Still tied up —(04:45) Knife at his throat — (06:23) Found, untied, taken hostage

Ep 10-23 : None

Ep 24 : (03:05) Arm twisted

Ep 25 : None

Ep 26 : (05:05) Thrown to the ground, attacked, knife at his throat

Ep 27-35 : None

Ep 36 : Missing, suspect in a case

Ep 37 : None

Ep 38 : (00:45) Tied up with rope the whole episode 

Ep 39 : (09:30) Still tied up, black hood on his head, gagged, saved — (13:40) Restrained

Ep 40 : (05:25) Wakes up from a nightmare

Ep 41 : None

Ep 42 : (06:45) Fighting, hit — (09:10) Shot at, more fighting, gun pointed at his head — (12:50) Hit several times, choked, punched, Song He comes to the rescue

Ep 43 : (08:25) Handcuffed (wants to infiltrate a prison)

Ep 44 : (03:00) Handcuffed, about to infiltrate a prison (very dangerous), hugged by his friends — (10:25) Manhandled, restrained, force fed something disgusting, coughing

Ep 45 : (01:00) Glass cup smashed on his head, knocked out — (07:10) Wakes up in a cell, holding his stomach, in pain — (12:35) Stomach hurting, sweating

Ep 46 : None

Ep 47 : (02:50) Fighting, hit

Ep 48 : (04:05) Walking unsteadily, holding his stomach, passes out, wakes up in bed, concern for him — (09:10) Crying, vision blurry passes out — (11:30) Wakes up tied up

Ep 49-50 : None

Ep 51 : (01:00) Teary-eyed, fighting — (10:20) Teary-eyed 

Ep 52 : (00:50) Teary-eyed, crying — (10:20) Crying

Song He

Ep 1-2 : None

Ep 3 : (10:35) Fighting, choked, in an explosion, found collapsed on the floor, concern for him, helped up, stumbling — (11:30) Wound treated, in pain, alcohol dumped on his wound, screaming in pain (semi-comedic)

Ep 4-12 : None

Ep 13 : (07:30) Feeling unwell, collapses unconscious, concern for him, surrounded by some poison miasma — (09:15) Wakes up, slightly disoriented 

Ep 14-27 : None

Ep 30 : (08:55) Surrounded by smoke, coughing, collapses, passes out, concern for him, woken up

Ep 31-38 : None

Ep 39 : (01:50) Fighting, hit

Ep 40 : (02:00) Surrounded by enemies — (03:45) Just had a tough fight, injured, tired, bleeding, saved — (09:20) Grabbed on his injury, wincing in pain

Ep 41-46 : None

Ep 47 : (11:30) Drugged, stumbling, vision blurry, cut with a knife multiple times, hit, fighting, pinned to the ground, stabbed in the chest, jumps through a window, shot, still manages to escape (Gif Set)

Ep 48 : (03:35) Bleeding, barely conscious, concern for him — (09:45) Carried unconscious, concern for him — (12:00) Unconscious in bed, wakes up, pale and feverish, in pain, concern for him

Ep 49 : (00:50) In bed, weak

Ep 50 : None

Ep 51 : (01:25) Slight concern for him, fighting — (06:25) Shot, collapses, bleeding, concern for him 

Ep 52 : None

>> More Whump Lists

[rejectedfables]

Today I’m thinking about parallels.

I’m thinking about how Wei Wuxian, by doing the right thing (standing up to Wen Chao in defense of Mianmian), upset a powerful member of a powerful sect (Wen Chao of the Wen sect), who retaliated against Wei Wuxian by wiping out the home (Lotus Pier) of the man Wei Wuxian planned to spend his life with (Jiang Cheng). Wei Wuxian, out of guilt and love, had a physical part of himself (his golden core) transplanted into Jiang Cheng without Jiang Cheng’s prior knowledge or consent. Wei Wuxian then disappeared for an extended period of time, while Jiang Cheng desperately searched for him.

I’m thinking about how Xiao Xingchen, by doing the right thing (attempting to bring Xue Yang to justice for the Chang clan, and verbally standing up to injustice in the face of the Jin clan), upset a powerful member of a powerful sect (Jin Guangshan of the Jin sect), who retaliated against Xiao Xingchen by encouraging or allowing Xue Yang to wipe out the home (Baixue Temple) of the man Xiao Xingchen planned to spend his life with (Song Lan). Xiao Xingchen, out of guilt and love, had a physical part of himself (his eyes) transplanted into Song Lan without Song Lan’s prior knowledge or consent. Xiao Xingchen then disappeared for an extended period of time, while Song Lan desperately searched for him.

Later Wei Wuxian spends a couple years living in a remote haunted area (Yiling Burial Mounds) making house with the beaten remains of their previous enemy (the defeated and abused Qishan Wen clan remnants). 

Later Xiao Xingchen spends a couple years living in a remote haunted area (Yi City) making house with the beaten remains of their previous enemy (Xue Yang, injured from having narrowly escaped execution).

In the end it’s heavily implied that Wei Wuxian kills himself, and it’s stated that no matter who tried to call on his spirit in the following years, until Mo Xuanyu, he never answered. 

Xiao Xingchen certainly killed himself, and no matter how many times or in how many ways his spirit was called upon, he never answered. 

[meanderfall]

#wheres the essay OP#OP wheres the essay#meander i cannot stress enough how willing i am to hear you go off on this topic

fjdlkgjdfljkgh okay! @fenrirsclaws if you really want to hear about this, i don't mind sharing! Because I really did write a whole-ass essay (or just rambled like a madman for several hours)!!!!

I do feel like I need to put in a disclaimer before I start copy and pasting (and editing a little) that this entire thing started bc i was talking with a friend about how fandom half-jokingly calls wwx a working class hero (when we both think he isnt), when jgy should probably be considered one for real, considering he clawed his way to the top and then created the watchtowers, a public good made to defend non-cultivators in remote areas.

And then we both found this meta, elaborating a little bit on the class dynamics in mdzs, and how the interpretation of wwx being incredibly class conscious isn't entirely accurate (and with some delicious jgy meta too and his place in the gentry/cultivation world), and since i've been reading svsss and 2ha, my brain went brrr and decided to compare and contrast.

SO!

gonna start with 2ha bc i think it's the simplest place to start AND since it's from a different author, the intent and themes are already way way different.

so to start off with, Mo Ran(the protagonist of 2ha)'s situation is the most similar to WWX's. Mo Ran also spent years on the street as an orphan before being taken in by a sect leader and his family. There is a stark difference in how it plays out, and why I think Mo Ran is way more class conscious than WWX is from this experience.

For starters, Mo Ran spent much, MUCH longer trying to survive on the streets than WWX did. I think Mo Ran's mom died when Mo Ran was around the same age was when WWX's parents died? But Mo Ran stayed on the streets until the age of 15, unlike WWX who got taken in a couple years in.

Second, where they start off from as orphans is even different? Like, WWX is the son of rogue cultivators, one of whom is in good standing with a sect leader, and the other was the disciple of the immortal Baoshen Sanren. As far as I know, Mo Ran only knows his mom who was just a regular every day working woman. Which kinda means that 1) people with means would be looking out for WWX (iirc Jiang Fengmian actually went looking for him, which is why he's found soon-ish) and 2) WWX's lineage isn't actually that bad. He gets called a "son of a servant" when he's acting out/breaching etiquette, but for the most part he is accepted by the cultivation world/gentry just fine. Mo Ran, however, is well-aware that other sects and cultivators would spit on him for being a nobody.

Third, even their experiences as orphans on the streets was night and day in that sense that like. WWX got chased by dogs and didn't have enough to eat, but I don't think we're given much more than that. It's enough to inform us of his trauma and why he thinks and acts in certain ways, but I don't think we get anything particularly pointed in regards to class. In contrast, Mo Ran's mom was busking on the streets by dancing on top of poles when some rich cunt stops by and is like "oh this isn't nearly impressive enough. i'll give you 10 gold pieces if you do it with shards of glass/knives beneath you." and his mom doesn't want to do it, but it's MONEY and her son is starving so she does and oh look at that she gets injured. And the rich bitch doesn't even give her the money she said she would. None of the bystanders rush her to medical care. One person offers her a single copper piece in "sympathy" from a bag full and clinking from coin. And now his mom can't even perform to get even the meager amount of coins they were getting already.

So Mo Ran starts begging on the streets too and there's one scene where he comes across this rich young master who's eating dumplings by just. munching the middle piece and throwing the wrappers/dough to his dog. And Mo Ran begs to have the wrappers instead and the rich young master refuses, makes fun of him, has him kicked and beaten away, and Mo Ran is viscerally aware in this moment that he is worth less than a dog.

Fourth! Mo Ran actually gets taken in the sect leader of Sisheng Peak by lying that he's his nephew. Technically the sect leader makes the assumption and Mo Ran just doesn't correct him, but he is aware that he is there under false pretenses and if he tells the truth, they might kick him out. WWX has a shaky and dysfunctional family dynamic with the Jiangs bc of his origins, but I don't think he thought he would ever get kicked out. He was head disciple! He was going to be Jiang Cheng's right hand man! None of that screams "if you do even one wrong move you will be kicked out", especially since he was always acting shamelessly? It's a well-known fact about him? If he was in danger of that, it probably would have happened a long time ago.

And we know that Mo Ran's insecurity of his place and position is still a big part of his life, since the curse Mo Ran is placed under in the story plays with this insecurity of his by making him think his shizun is looking down on him for being poor and illiterate and some mutt dragged in from the streets when that couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

to move on to themes….. MDZS has some classism going on, but i don't think it's necessarily one of the points it's trying to make. The class dynamics are mostly there to inform on characters' backstories and motivations, but it's not really what it's talking about. If there was, it would probably something along the lines of "The rich and powerful decides what's fair to whoever, including the other gentry. They will twist your reputation to suit their ends." Because MDZS very much a story centered around the struggles of cultivators and their sects, not around what non-cultivators and regular people are going through, and thus it's rich and powerful in-squabbling. No one is immune. A Bad Reputation can RUIN you, and it can be very VERY easy to manipulate people and the general populace to believe a certain thing. (If anything, MDZS is almost more of a cautionary tale against believing rumours, and a quiet urge to be willing to show people grace and empathy, bc people are in fucked up situations, making impossible choices.)

2ha on the other hand, actually DOES focus a LOT, or at least a lot more, on the struggles of non-cultivators. There's the Lower Cultivation Realm and the Upper Cultivation Realm, and the Upper Realm obvs has the more powerful sects and stronger cultivators but they work on "commission". The peasants have to pay them in order for them to show up and help. Sisheng Peak is a Lower Realm sect and actually isn't all that wealthy bc they make it a point to redistribute that wealth to EVERYONE, even the non-cultivators. You will be fed and sheltered and taken care of in its area. Chu Wanning, Mo Ran's shizun, is from the Upper Cultivation Realm and he LEFT bc he believed in what the Upper Realm preached and was so disappointed and angry that they didn't actually follow through and wanted to help. And he DOES. he CARES. he creates these automatons for villagers to use that will protect them from demons and other ghoulies and hands them out for FREE (or for very little? It's been a while since i read the first book). There's a mission in the actual book where he speaks with a ghost and finds out this poor girl was taken advantage of by this rich merchant family and murdered so their son could further their standing by marrying someone else, and he's so fucking pissed at them that he starts WHIPPING them for their cruelty, while calling them out for how awful they are. And he does it even though he knows he's breaking the sect rules, and calmly marches himself to the punishment hall because even if it was for a good cause, he knows he broke the rules and needs to be punished for it. (If we're going to call ANY cultivator the hero of the common folk it should be CHU WANNING.)

I don't know if you care about getting spoilers for 2ha (though lmao already kind of late for that), and I don't know the complete story since the story isn't fully translated and released yet, and finding fan translations is kind of difficult, so im mostly working off of the wiki and spoilers from fic, but I'm pretty sure the reason why the cruelty and callousness of the rich (from both cultivators and non-cultivators) gets a lot more focus in 2ha than mdzs, is bc it's an actual plot point. Like. A major fucking plot point. As is Chu Wanning's unexpected kindness.

OK NOW SVSSS.

So Luo Binghe vs WWX. Tbh he has a similar sort of start to Mo Ran too, in that he had an adoptive mom, but then died when he was young still, and he survived on the streets until he finally made his way to Cang Qiong Mountain and joined the sect. In contrast to both of them though, he was mercilessly bullied by his peers and his shizun (at least in the original story Shang Qinghua, AKA Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky (his username online) wrote).

I was mostly thinking about him in contrast with WWX bc like. WWX is a well-known part of the gentry, y'know? He was an outcast when he tried to defend the Wen, but if he renounced them, he probably would've been accepted back. And people were against him for doing necromancy and desecrated graves and loved ones dead bodies. Luo Binghe was just a kid, who wasn't accepted bc he was poor and not One of Them. (though his original Shizun did have more complex reasons, but well. 1) 'Twas lost with the outline, so the only one who knows is Airplane. And 2) i think the reason boiled down to "I also went through hell being poor and a slave and came out a bitter, cynical man, how the FUCK are you still so happy and hopeful?" which like. not great. Cycle of abuse continues.)

The last straw was when his shizun pushed him into the Endless Abyss for being half heavenly demon, something he has no control over, and he came back stronger than ever and pissed and just. Razed everything to the ground. All the rich and powerful sects who don't give a fuck, and are horrible and abused him and ruined his life. And became Emperor of the Demon Realm.

There isn't much point to this section beyond the fact that I think it kind of highlights that WWX wasn't nearly as much of an outcast as some parts of the fandom like to think and any alienation he faced was through his own making. And to be clear!!! I do think that even if WWX tried to play by the rules and be a good little cultivator, JGS and by extension JGY, would have found SOME way to smear his reputation to get him killed or take the Tiger Seal from him, because they wanted his power. But the point is that he didn't. He was arrogant enough to think he could control resentful energy with no consequences to himself or others, and selfless to the point of isolating himself from anyone who could've helped him. WWX is tragic and compelling to watch bc there were both forces moving against him, and his own flaws made it so, so easy for them to ruin him.

still, I can't think of the OG!Luo Binghe without thinking of Airplane (Shang Qinghua, and i will now be using those names interchangeably), and also just how similar they are in some respects to JGY.

Because OG!Luo Binghe was Airplane's power fantasy, and this world he crafted came from some way he viewed the world, and I think JGY and Airplane are rather similar.

To elaborate a little, Airplane was not abused by his parents, but was rather neglected. His parents weren't happy with each other and didn't pay much attention to him, and once they did divorce and remarried, they were much happier with their new lives and they never said anything to Airplane in specific but he felt very unwelcome. And then he went to university and his dad was supposed to send him money to pay for tuition, rent, food, etc, and eventually his dad just… forgot. and kept forgetting. So Airplane turned to writing a webnovel to make money to survive, but his outline got fried with his laptop but he needs money and he's paid every 100 character so he writes what he knows. Churns out suffering and a dog-eat-dog world and how sweet being powerful and getting revenge would be and pads out the word count with shitty porn. I don't remember if it was in a post or a fic I read, but there's one line someone wrote from Airplane's pov about how he wrote Luo Binghe's suffering so gratuitously so that no one could ever say his revenge wasn't deserved and i literally cannot ever forget that. The thought of Airplane enduring and hurting and any complaints get brushed aside as nothing.

And even when he gets transmigrated into the novel he wrote, he's just cannon fodder, destined to die by another character's hand for being a traitor, in charge of the logistics of the entire sect and doing all the goddamn work and looked down upon for being useless, and he has to follow along with the story bc otherwise he will die, killed by the System.

And I think about how in that meta post, op wrote that JGY fears, he is always always aware just how fragile his position is, how it can be taken away, and I think in a very similar way, Airplane survives. he is in a constant state of survival. He'll do the shitty work, he'll get no respect from anyone, he'll betray his sect, he'll beg and plead and whimper for his life and get seen as a dirty useless coward, and none of that matters as long as he gets to keep living, and I think about that, and just how true to life that feels as a working poor. How we'll go into work and sell hours of our lives away, our health and good mood, pieces of ourselves if we're making art, just for the sake of getting to eat and have access to water and having a roof over our head, and i'm like you know what. of all the characters in MDZS and SVSSS, Airplane is the real working class rep people are looking for.

(This last section turned more into Airplane meta than anything else, but this guy makes me so fucking sad. Fuck man, even JGY has dreams and ambitions!!! Airplane only thinks wistfully of people not sneering down at him all the time and maybe getting a little vacation, from what i recall. how fucked up is that.

also low-key glad svsss isn't popular enough for the dumb parts of fandom to get their hands on airplane bc man! I don't think Airplane is a bad person. I also don't think he's a good person. He's just… selfish. And thinks everyone else is too. Everyone's looking out for themselves in this world, so you can't expect goodness. Easily reflected in the world he crafted for his story bc the characters in his original story were just. not good people. at all.)

anyway. TL;DR wwx knows nothing about how non-cultivators and peasants live, he was a farmer for like two months and spent that time in a cave, inventing things. and i will die on the hill that fans that focus a bit too much on class in MDZS, esp in regards to WWX, are not Understanding the material. Class was NOT the point or the theme of the story MXTX was trying to write, especially not THIS one.

Me: yeah I can't fucking concentrate, nothing interests me

Also me:

[wangxianficrecs]

💙 foliage by antebunny

💙 foliage

by antebunny (@antebunny)

G, 7k, Wangxian

Summary: Wei Wuxian surrenders in Nightless City. Jin Guangshan, knowing that he's coreless and weaponless, organizes a night hunt with 1,000 Jin disciples where Wei Wuxian is the prey. He shouldn't have underestimated Wei Wuxian. Kay's comments: This is the most BAMF Wei Wuxian story out there and I absolutely adore it. He surrenders and has to fight 1000 Jin disciples an then he comes out on top and vanishes. In the meantime, the world changes. The non-linear narrative worked really well in this story and I loved the shifts in perspective as you learn more about what happened after Wei Wuxian surrendered and why he surrendered. There's a second part too, about his return. Excerpt: “A-Xian, please…stop. Just stop,” Jiang Yanli begs, spending the last of her breath gasping out a barely coherent sentence to her little brother. “Okay,” Wei Wuxian says, desperate as always to make her happy. “Okay. If that’s what you want.” He raises his flute to his lips, calming the fierce corpses currently rampaging around Nightless City. Jiang Yanli feels the world going blurry, but forces herself to focus for her brother. Wei Wuxian gently picks her up and passes her to Jiang Cheng, who came running over as soon as he heard her. “A-Yuan,” he says to Jiang Cheng urgently. “Please, Jiang Cheng, A-Yuan–he’s just a child.” Then he backs away, hands at his side, and turns to face the assembled cultivators. “Wei Wuxian!” The sharp voice of Sect Leader Nie. “What is this? Are you surrendering?” Wei Wuxian looks back, once, at Jiang Yanli. No, she wants to say, don’t do it. A-Xian, I came to tell you that I don’t blame you. I know it’s not your fault. I know you would never. Don’t surrender to them, A-Xian, there’s something rotten in the heart of Jinlintai and they’re not interested in justice. But she can’t. She’s losing consciousness in her brother’s arms, and she can do nothing but watch as Wei Wuxian looks away with resolve on his face. She’s never hated herself more for being weak.

pov alternating, non-linear narrative, canon divergence, somebody lives/not everybody dies, angst, hurt/comfort, angst with a happy ending, jiang yanli lives, bamf wei wuxian

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(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)