#it's not like the characters know that the story is going to be relevant later

[eah-confessions]

i think people are too harsh on the apple and raven switched at birth theory. sure, people are not allowed to like it and i'm not against pointing out the flaws in it but i sort of think people are overly negative about it's flaws, and i hope that doesn't affect the creator. and i'm saying this as someone who doesn't agree with the theory and also heavily disagrees with it

first of all one of the takes ive seen is switched at birth would "destroy" the destiny themes of the show- to which i heavily disagree. i feel like if the writers added this revelation later on in the series if way too wonderland and dragon games didnt end the destiny arc it would point the flaws in the destiny system and change the relationship's the royals. both raven and apple's moms have one track mind and believe their destiny should be followed. it would be a massive revelation to the characters and affect their relationships. i dont think it would make all the "drama" useless considering how a lot of it stems from the culture of the fairytale world, and it would force the characters to really consider what the destiny system is. one of the biggest revelations it would be if the parents didnt know too somehow, and it was a mistake the doctors made and not intentional. (or even an ordinary citizen of bookend who was mad at the destiny system- just throwing ideas out) if the story suddenly went this way, i wouldnt like it but it doesnt feel impossible to be added to the ever after high story, given cerise and ramona's story being added late in the story or holly and poppy. i mean swapping two different babies compared to twins being born really close together is a huge reach- but still.

another thing i've seen is that because blond hair can be be recessive it disproves the theory. i understand the theory is mostly because of the hair colors of the characters not matching, but i dont really think this disprove it because it's really hard to dispute given how bare bones the theory is. many bad theories are intentionally or not intentionally difficult to disprove. i also thought, as far as i know never seeing both sets of parents even in an illustration for them is kind of suspicious to me. it would be interesting to see them focus on their family tree as well, but they didnt probably because that would kill the suspense of seeing these characters later on.

i do think this is a bad theory (its more of an idea than a theory), but an interesting story concept that could have even be considered for ever after high. i do think that its possible that this was an early idea for ever after high. consider the following: ever after high was in development for several years and wasnt even about fairytales at first, it was about witches. disney was even working on desendants as well. now part of me wonders if the reason that apple doesnt have black hair is because of disney and not wanting to make the characters too similar to disney's despite them having the well known versions of many characters. so they have to call back to the disney version (ex: adding yellow and gold in apple's design) without directly copying them. another thing that strikes me as interesting is that in one of the original versions of snow white she has "hair as black as ebony" yet in her future shown in the mirror we never see snow white in the future with the blonde turning into black hair. in fact its raven who undergoes more of a transformation. knowing how much ever after high uses the original source material of the original it's something to consider. another interesting thing to consider is the possibility if cerise was going to be more relevant this theme would make sense throughout the series, of inheriting a destiny that doesn't belong to you (i believe she was in the stop motion short) so with this i propose that it could have been considered at one point for the story, but didnt use it because it didnt work. another interesting idea is apple and raven not being switched, but being related somehow. like if the good king had a relationship with snow white but left her for evil queen and she had apple because of that. so apple and raven would be half sisters. again, not something i would want in canon but still interesting.

i know the original posters of these takes might disagree with me, but i feel like switched at birth- even though not a well carefully or thought out theory (literally just a "what if") can open up more discussions of the creative decisions on ever after high, and i feel like the community just going at this theory (as well as other communities going after theories that arent just "its not real") to me is sort of unproductive. ive seen too many takes on why it's stupid and i'm tired. i think the original creator, as far as i'm aware is a well read person who made one bad theory so when people say that it "lacks media literacy" i sort of get mad on their behalf, also hating that as a buzzword. so yeah, even though i think switched at birth is a "stupid" theory i think it's overcriticized in the fandom for being bad, when the concepts it has are really interesting outside of this theory. because the fact the ever after high designers made the child of snow white a blonde is very interesting from a design perspective because snow white is well known in many versions of her tale for having black hair. as well as the fact that ever after high was sort of mistreated by mattel and that affected the plot we were shown and how the fandom interacts with eah media. sorry if some people see this confession is just "people are too negative" but i do think people are blowing how bad this theory out of proportion. it's a bad theory with a lot of potential. i think this fandom in general has a lot of problems of overusing negative criticism and certain discussions becoming popular over others, like overfocusing on the selfishness of certain characters and whether or not apple (or raven) is a good or bad person objectively and arguing about it amongst each other instead of like... the larger actual story? i also think switched at birth would make a good AU and seeing what it would mean for their fairytales is so interesting. but not a good theory, no...

-

[loganelfreeces]

Hey sorry I took fucking forever to reply to your post, life happened! But first of all, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING SO INTERESTED IN MY POST! I'm honoured that you enjoyed it enough to write your own in response, and that you promoted it to others with that link, thank you so much!

I agree with you about Umemiya modelling himself after Shitara's example. I mean, after his parents died, Shitara raised him and probably had the biggest impact on the person Umemiya turned out to be. Especially since Saviour kinda just gave Umemiya a major life lesson and left Shitara to help him work through the emotions after that. Like, just, look at this:

Are these not the same pannel twice? A goofy guy raging about his favourite things while his friends judge him for it. Umemiya definutely learned a lot from Shitara in his time at the orphanage and I mean, at this point he's spent at least 8 years there, so it makes sense that he'd pick up some habits.

It could also be a sense that like. Shitara probably didn't talk to Umemiya about his talk with Saviour while Umemiya was unconcious, but Umemiya likely picked up on the fact that Shitara was connected to Furin. So in a way, he was doing the one thing his second Dad wasn't able to do in his generation: unite the school and protect the town. BUT I could be wrong and Shitara did talk to Umemiya about it, after all, why else would we see that conversation in a flashback when Umemiya wasn't awake for that conversation? We can't be certain until we see Shitara turn up again.

We do know from one of Nii Satoru's sketches of Umemiya's morning hair routine that he is probably still living in the orphanage. So if ever Sakura has a reason to visit Umemiya's house, he's probably gonna deal with a bunch of little kids grabbing at him and asking him to play until Shitara shows up to distract the kids with pudding so he can talk to Sakura.

As for how close we are to Umemiya's graduation, the Japanese school year works like this: It starts in April and ends in March next year. I'm gonna make a proper timeline post later on, but it's only late July when we have the barbeque party, so it's only been 4 months since Sakura came to Furin. Umemiya's graduation is at least 8 months away, so we have a lot of story to get through first.

I can see why Saviour not having any details could throw you off, but the thing is, I do think he'll come back. Nii said in this interview that he initially planned for Umemiya to be the protagonist, so I imagine he's at least had concepts for Umemiya's mentor figures and inspirations since the concept sketches. Given that he's supervising the anime (which added more visual metaphors in the Shishitoren arc and included how Togame and Tomiyama met), I think there's a lot to the story that Nii hasn't said yet, but is slowly being revealed as we go.

I also noticed how in Sugishita's character profile which we got in the first Volume of the manga that he uses Tsubaki shampoo and guess what we saw in the most recent manga chapter?

Tsubaki giving Sugishita hair oil when he enters middle school for the first time.

From the smallest details like this, to the biggest story defining stuff like Shishitoren/Roppo-Ichiza/Gravel saving Furin and the whole A Fight Is A Conversation thing coming back in the Noroshi arc, I feel like Nii-sensei is an author who loves building on what he's already written to make it all come out better than expected. This is why I think Saviour is going to return around Umemiya's graduation.

Though I also love your idea of Nirei being the one who figures out the connection between Saviour, the Silly to his Serious and Shitara all being Furin students before Umemiya was. I also believe in our notebook boy!

As for there being no teachers at Furin, there actually are some we just don't see them because it's not relevant to the story; we know this because the character profiles list the things at school the Bofurin boys are good at (thank you @orange-cheetah for translating them). But that's not to diminish what you said about Shitara being the only responsible adult we see in the series. @begrudging-fudanshi mentioned in this amazing analysis here about how themes of responsibility and the lack of authority in the series feels very purposefully done by Nii-sensei and @perpetuallyexhaustedlibrarian has their own theories that this is due to the implied extreme poverty the town is in. I agree with the two of them, that it really does mean something that there are no adults in the town who aren't local business workers just giving the Furin guys free food.

So yeah, those are my 3am thoughts, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me!

hey, remember when I thought literally no one was talking about umemiya's backstory's backstory?? yeah, well this guy @loganelfreeces just opened my eyes with the most insane analysis I've ever seen, bc these characters appear in less than two chapters and I'm not really the kind to overanalyze stuff but this made me think more than Im used to and I'm grateful for it.

seriously, if you havent read their post please go, its amazing!! what I'm about to say its practically just a response to what they were saying so I recommend reading it either wya

first off i want to start saying that i cant shake the feeling that umemiya and shitara share the same personality in the sense that they act all friendly and goofy to protect others from unnecessary trouble, like if we're talking about how umemiya acts i can tell he somehow copied or adapted himself to shitara's sense of responsability when it comes to emotional support

then there's that conversation shitara has with the other caretaker about the old furin, and i did get the feeling that shitara was talking about himself in some way, tho i wasnt sure if he had been a furin student, but just some acquaintance to the people there. him being a former student makes sense given that he knows a lot about furin insights and takes responsability on what they do around town

i can see shitara playing a major role in the future, but since the last time qe saw him was when umemiya was 14 years old, i hardly think we will see him again, OR as you pointed out, when umemiya graduates.

if im not wrong, it has been aprox five months (?) sicne sakura entered furin, so i think we're close to that

the one person i really dont think will appear again is umemiya's savior. why? because he couldn't see his face, it wasnt shown, we didnt got a name, not even a nickname, and as you were saying, he's an adult probably out of town that will never appear again

it will be one hell of a twist if the savior happens to be related to someone else, like being suo's martial artist brother or sakura's acquaintance, but i hardly believe he will appear again. yes he was influential in the story, and yes he shared with us some very important information about the old furin, but that was his role at the moment, and the story was going on about umemiya and shitara.

so, yes, shitara will probably appear again in some important scene, and no, the savior will probably not appear ever again

and IF we're talking about a third party, the other guy shitara and the savior mentioned, I hardly believe they will give us more insight on this. there's still a high chance this will get more focus in the series as the events starts to unfold in something more large. i think, if anything, nirei can crack the code of this mysterious saviors and the old furin secrets, I believe in my notebook guy!! (tho I really like how you connected the "serious/calm and goofy/loud" duo, it makes total sense)

OTHER THING THAT I REALIZED I THOUGHT YOUVE POINTED OUT BUT TURNS OUT I JUST IMAGIEND was that shitara and the other girl mention that because of all the gangs messing up the town the police had turned a blind eye to all these and left the town without doing their proper job, so that lefts us with no reliable adults available to put a stop to those crimes. there's no teachers in furin even tho its a school. the townsfolk rely on the furin boys. there's hardly any picture of parents anywhere, not even in conversations. shitara is the first adult to be relied on by someone in the entire series, and i think that alone says a lot about the guy and the future of the series in general.

I BELEIVE IN NII-SENSEI TO GIVE US AN ASNWER TO ALL THESE, THEY'RE AMAZING ON WHAT THEIR DOING AND I CANT WAIT HOW ALL THESE TURNS OUT!!

aAaaAaA im done.

[azural83]

Moonvale's pacing is insane,why is the richy wannabe guy telling the player his traumatic backstory when one of his friends is missing and the other one is all alone in the woods

[moonpaw]

Fighting DEMONS rn trying not to get invested in one piece to figure out wtf you're posting about!!!!

come here cyber.... we have this thang

‎

[aromanticasterisms]

oh man no wonder i'm missing my little guys recently. we haven't seen kaeya in almost a year

[narugen-moved]

ashiro mina as a character is so interesting to me because she’s such a Big Thing in the kn8 universe and everyone respects her and she’s well known for having this niche skill/speciality nobody else can replicate but she’s also sooooo distant. and even when it comes to official merch/art sometimes she doesn’t appear (no volume cover, not included in that game collab, etc) and it’s just like.. when you compare her to hoshina for example who is rightfully a very popular character because of how much we see of him in the manga it’s just. IDK WHAT I WANNA SAY i’m not bitter (yes i am) that she doesn’t get as Much as she could’ve because i know it’s purposefully done (dragging her story out, showing her pov only 100 chapters later) but ARGHHHH ashiro mina i want to know more about you so bad.

[dbphantom]

maybe i should have gone into practical effects instead of computer science...

[baronessofmischief]

Rebel Moon on Netflix is sooooooo soso bad guys 😂 like at least there’s space Charlie Hunnam with a Scottish accent and sometimes the main character has a flashback where she has a better haircut AND there’s a sibling duo who have the best costumes in the movie but the story? The script? The movie structure? Cohesiveness? Absolutely terrible. And there’s still 45 minutes left

[fluffykitteninabox]

Hate it when 90% of a fandom misgenders a canonically trans character because "ThE cHaRaCtErS iN tHe ShOw Do iT tOo!!"

[hitroow]

I just had the sickest idea.

[starcurtain]

Teyvat's "Most Down Bad" Award Goes to Alhaitham for a Second Year Running

Seeing everyone making fun of Alhaitham for his "stalkerish" tendencies in this event is funny, because I feel like a lot of people missed that "Be literally everywhere Kaveh is" has been Alhaitham's MO from the day Kaveh appeared in the game.

From only grabbing his house keys after Kaveh returned from the desert (he couldn't have had both sets of keys at the end of the Archon Quest unless he went home and got Kaveh's copy) to ditching conversations to get back to his house only after Kaveh came home, to showing up without any warning or explanation in Kaveh's hangout with some ridiculous excuse about hearing his voice through noise-cancelling headphones... Refusing to offer any help in the Temple of Silence story quest other than staying in the library with Kaveh...

Since when does Alhaitham willingly cover anyone else's duties?

But this trend of "Be everywhere Kaveh is" didn't start when they were adults. It was already in place when they were still Akademiya students--and it's a trend that didn't end even when they had their fight.

Even when they weren't speaking, Alhaitham dogged Kaveh's every step through published responses to Kaveh's research articles in academic journals. He insisted on keeping a line of communication between himself and Kaveh open, even if the only way to do that was through very public ideological clashes. Pulling Kaveh's pigtails to get his attention lolol. It's implied that, for at least the few years between their fight and Kaveh moving in, this was the only communication between them--Alhaitham's refusal to allow their connection to entirely fade away. (And the fact that this is revealed in Kaveh's character stories--through his precious journal that records the moments of his life that had the most impact on him--shows just how deeply he values the fact that Alhaitham didn't give up.)

Another relevant side note: Alhaitham never asked Kaveh to give up his half of their house. Knowing half of it belonged to Kaveh, knowing that Kaveh may one day want to reclaim his part of it, knowing that it was listed as theirs, Alhaitham moved into the house and made zero effort to change its ownership. He was completely fine with living in "his and Kaveh's house." The stories suggest it was only months later (or even longer) that Kaveh even noticed he had the house, and he transferred away ownership of his portion without Alhaitham ever asking him (or even seemingly wanting him) to do so.

Please, let that sink in. Alhaitham actively left his grandmother's (presumably comfortable) house to move into "his and Kaveh's house," with no apparent explanation for why, and after doing so, he made no attempt to change that "his and Kaveh's" label. He moved into the house with no promise that Kaveh wouldn't show up on the doorstep the very next day and move in too. It almost feels like another deliberate provocation--I've moved into our house, are you going to come stop me? LBR, if Alhaitham had had his way, Kaveh would have been living there with him from Day 1...

There's also the fact that Kaveh literally can't write on a single message board anywhere in the entire nation of Sumeru without Alhaitham hunting his messages down and responding to them (which absolutely no one else does, by the way).

"NUH-UH!" "UH-HUH." "NUH-UH!"

Alhaitham's own character stories tell us explicitly that one of Alhaitham's defining character traits is "He is never where you need him to be," yet somehow...

Shot, and chaser:

Any time Kaveh is in the slightest bit of need or danger or just wants Alhaitham near, Alhaitham is "coincidentally" exactly where Kaveh needs him to be, whenever Kaveh needs him to be there.

Alhaitham didn't just "happen" to run into Kaveh in Port Ormos, an entirely different city from where he was supposed to be working. He didn't just "happen" to read the same terrible book as Kaveh when we know he otherwise would not waste a moment of his time on poorly-written literature...

He didn't just "happen" to appear when Kaveh was upset and needed a distraction in the House of Daena during Kaveh's hangout. He didn't just "happen" to be sitting around waiting when Kaveh needed answers after the Archon Quest. He didn't just "happen" to find Kaveh's academic publications and every single message board posting and respond to them at length and in public.

Which is exactly what Kaveh's mother told Kaveh he needed.

What level of down bad is "Abusing your powers as an Akademiya employee to keep tabs on your crush's library loans"? Just asking for a friend.

The only person for whom Alhaitham just "happens" to be available is Kaveh, over and over and over again--because he is very deliberately making himself a constant presence in Kaveh's life.

(Like, out of all things, I think people really underestimate the devs deliberately paralleling the romantic relationship between Kaveh's mother and father with Kaveh and Alhaitham's relationship. If you want to point to one thing that says "These two characters are intentionally queer-coded," it doesn't get any more obvious than this.)

Alhaitham, are you not embarrassed to be this transparent??? 🫣

[momxian]

AU where Shen Yuan gets transmigrated as an Original Character into the Demon Realm a few years before Bingge gets there. But even though he's not SQQ, he LOOKS like a near exact copy. So he figures that if he wants to survive he needs to make himself useful. First things first, he needs to know what the hell is going on, so he starts working with lower level demons setting himself up as someone necessary, and relatively important so he can figure out when in the plot they are. It's pretty easy, there's not much in the way of organization down here and despite everything he's not that bad an actor. It helps that SQJ's face is beautiful in every setting and he will quickly create a reputation of the stubborn beauty amongst the demon realm. It's around this time he starts wearing a veil to mask his resemblance to SQJ, but really it just adds to the mysterious allure aspect.

He utilizes his plot knowledge to get things ready for Binghe's arrival, tidying up the palace, setting up good staff, getting rid of some of the smaller villains that kidnap Ning Yingying and Liu Mingyan etc later. Actually a lot of smaller villains who kidnap, harass or belittle Bingge's harem. It's like every time he's running an errand he meets another piece of cannon fodder that will inevitably lead Bingge to another papapa scene. It's fine, by the time he's done with them (thank god this body doesn't have the same limitations as his old one) they follow him around with big demon puppy eyes and scramble to do chores and tasks for him.

By the time the Endless Abyss moment is set to happen, SY has thorough knowledge of the abyss and all of the special items tucked away in various locations across it. You can't be mad and murder someone who helped you through the torture torment evil maze of plot relevant trauma, right?

He finds Bingge post fall and does his best to act callous and only vaguely helpful, leading Bingge in the right direction and away from the biggest threats. His goal is to be a helpful and forgettable NPC. Someone who, if he runs into him again, Bingge will have mercy for and be left alone. Despite his resemblance to SQJ. But what he doesn't take into account is A) in no version of this story is he capable of being that hands off and B) Bingge was just shown kindness for the first time in years by a mysterious and elusive beauty with brilliant eyes and an obvious intelligence.

Since this is Bingge and not Binghe, he doesn't immediately fall for SY, and is in fact wildly paranoid, terrified and angry about things in general. But every time something seems to go wrong in the abyss, instead of taking the hits and becoming the stallion protagonist, SY shows up to give him a magic item, or rushes in to protect him from fatal blows and on two separate occasions thoughtlessly petted Bingge's hair when he was injured, which rattled Bingge so bad that he almost died again fighting the next monster.

Shen Yuan is gone often enough that he still makes his way to the Demon Palace, collects Xin Mo and builds his harem, though it's smaller than it was originally. Mostly because SY had taken out the smaller villains and then because SY had interfered with Bingge's quests so often.

Obviously Shen Yuan has a soft spot for Bingge now but doesn't admit it. But he's satisfied he can slip away now without too much consequence, except no he can't. Bingge asks for him, to collect something for him. To ask him something about another demon. To just stare at him for a half hour with a vein about to pop in his forehead as he tried to see through the veil before huffing and sending him away again.

Since Bingge is obviously not going to let him slip away, and SY isn't sure if Bingge is going to kill him or not he desperately makes himself useful again. He takes care of Bingge's harem. That's a lot of housing and food and clothes to take care of! The girls fight often! He'll just slip into the mix and keep the peace until Bingge forgets about him. And in the meantime sometimes he tends to Bingge and he and Bingge have dinner together. And isn't it so cute how the stallion protagonist can blush when he compliments the dish? And once or twice he combs out Bingge's hair. And sometimes Bingge rubs the scowl from between Shen Yuan's brows and lets his finger outline his jaw over the silk of his veil when SY is tending to tedious business.

Yeah, I'm sure one of these days Bingge will let you slip away SY.

Anyway Bingge is just relieved that Shen Yuan has accepted that he's part of the harem now.

[animentality]

I don't believe the people who say the atla live action show is good.

the most they seem to say is "just turn your brain off and you'll enjoy it-" and "it's for kids! it's supposed to be braindead."

the reason atla has endured as long as it has, is because people are still finding intelligent discourse to have about its mature themes and its thoughtful story and expansive world building. it's a timeless classic because it found a balance between being light hearted and humorous, when appropriate, and completely serious when exploring its darker material. There are no fucking jokes about katara's mom dying or the genocide of the air nomads. but they are a cast of kids/pre teens and they definitely feel like kids. they grow and mature, and they joke around and have a good time, but the fucking show never felt the need to dumb itself down because it thought kids were too fucking stupid to appreciate character growth or a nuanced story.

it's actually embarrassing to be here and say well atla is supposed to be for kids, so having the emotional depth of paw patrol is fine-

I'm so sorry that kids these days can't handle a story about redemption and genocide and imperialism.

I'm so sorry that kids are being fed slop under the guise that they're too stupid to have anything else, because God knows those of us who grew up with avatar sure didn't appreciate how smart it was.

that's why WE STILL TALK ABOUT IT YEARS LATER ACKNOWLEDGING HOW MANY LITTLE THINGS WE BOTH OBSERVED AND MISSED IN THE SERIES WHEN WE ORIGINALLY WATCHED IT.

go ahead, write paw patrol the last airbender.

kids definitely don't need to know what genocide and imperialism are. they're definitely not very fucking relevant topics of the modern day!! god knows American kids in particular shouldn't know how genocides and propaganda and the total annihilation of oppressed cultures work!!

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The Best Friend Showdown

Season four had many, many flaws. One of the big ones was the Rena Rouge vs Chat Noir conflict where Ladybug starts relying on Alya more and more, basically using her to replace Master Fu. We get a sense that Chat Noir feels inferior to Rena Rouge because of this change, but it’s never directly addressed. The most we get is this conversation from Hack-San:

Ladybug: I'm really sorry, Cat Noir. I should've told you. I mean, if I found out that you told someone about your secret identity, I'd... probably be upset, too. I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings. Cat Noir: You didn't hurt my feelings. You did everything right. 

Which is actually a really weird bit of dialogue because - as far as I can tell - nothing in the episode revealed that Scarabella knew Ladybug's identity. She hands out miraculous all the time and no one knows who she really is. Why would this time be different? Ladybug could just show up in costume, explain what's up, and then hand off the earrings while using yet another miraculous.

Anyway, the Rena Rouge vs Chat Noir conflict is “resolved” by Rena Rouge being outed again (and I guess that matters this time), leading her to give up her miraculous so that Gabriel can’t steal it away, which of course leads Gabriel to steal it away and fully disempower Ladybug’s larger team, leaving Chat Noir her only teammate.

How satisfying! This is such good, character-driven story telling!

It’s not. This is plot contrivances to the max with no meaningful character beats, but we’re not here to talk about that. We’re here to do one of my favorite things: gush about a relevant Kim Possible episode! Today’s topic is episode 12 of season one: Pain King vs. Cleopatra, the episode that introduces Kim’s female BFF, Monique!

This was a bit of a shocker for me because I didn’t realize that Kim and Monique weren’t pre-series friends. Turns out that, much like Alya, Monique is a new girl, which isn’t a bad call. This was a nice way to delay Monique’s introduction for a few episodes so that the writers could focus on establishing Kim’s relationship with other key members of the cast like her partner, Ron. Spacing out your intros is the way to go whenever you can pull it off as it’s a kindness to your audience that keeps them from feeling overwhelmed, making it more likely that they’ll remember your cast.

The other, more important similarity between Alya and Monique is that, when Kim’s hero partner and life-long friend finds out about Monique, he is less than thrilled:

Kim: I barely got to see them. Right after I hooked up with Monique, the museum was robbed by some glowing-headed animal guy. Ron: Oh, that's nice. Ron: Wait a minute, who's Monique? Kim New friend, really great. Anyway, the thief stole an enchanted ancient talisman. Ron: Whoa, whoa, back up! How can I not know about a new friend? Kim: I met her at Club Banana, then again at the museum before I chased the glowing robber. Ron: So what's she like? Kim: The robber? Ron: The friend, Kim, the "new friend".

Throughout the episode, Kim and Monique continue to bond without Ron, leaving Ron feeling left out:

Ron: Seein' a pattern here, Rufus: Kim does her thing, I do my thing, and pretty soon - we're doing different things.

Which leads him to get a little territorial:

Kim Ron! What are you doing here? Ron: Can I dine with my best friend and her new friend? Kim: Uuh, Ron, Monique, and vice versa. Ron: Bearclaw? Monique: No, thanks, I'm vegetarian. Ron: Uhm, I'm pretty sure it's imitation bear? Kim: She's joking, Ron. Ron: Good one, hahaha, ha, good one. So, did Kim tell you that I'm her sidekick? Cause that role is definitely taken by me. Monique: Riiiight. Well, in... you know I better get to class. Later, Kim. Um, n-nice meeting you, Ron. Ron: Likewise, I'm sure! Kim: What is your problem? You're acting really weird. Ron: Well, let's see. You went to the museum with Monique, not me. Monique was with you this morning, not me. Hmm, pattern? Kim: Yeah. You. Weird. Ron: No, we're drifting apart because you're excluding me. Kim: I am not excluding you. It's just that you and Monique are... different.

Noticing some similarities to Miraculous here?

So how does Kim Possible resolve this conflict?

Well, the plot of this episode resolves around Kim Possible’s version of professional wrestling, the GWA. There’s a competition going on that Kim has no interest in watching (mood), but when Kim mentions the GWA to Monique:

Monique: Why didn't you bring [Ron] along? Kim: Unless someone put a waiter in a headlock, this is definitely not Ron's scene. Besides, he had a date with "Steel Toe". Monique: He scored tickets to Mayhem in Middleton? The GWA rocks! Kim: What?

It turns out that Monique and Ron have a shared interest! Multiple shared interests, in fact! Interests that Kim does not share:

Monique: You know, I still can't believe you met Pain King and Steel Toe. Ron: I can't believe you're into wrestling. Kim: I can't believe I know either one of you.

By the end of the episode, the conflict is resolved not with Kim having to pick a BFF or with Monique somehow being demoted, but by showing that this didn’t need to be a conflict at all. Kim can have multiple close friends that she shares different interests with without any of those friends being lesser. Those friends can, in turn, have their own friendships that don’t always involve her.

It’s a genuinely lovely resolution that makes me love this little friend group because it now has added complexity. Monique and Ron are friends in their own right! Kim is not the center of the universe in spite of her main character status!

I also love that Kim isn’t vilified for having other friends or portrayed as constantly leaving Ron out of things that he'd want to do in favor of Monique. Ron genuinely would not enjoy most of the things that the girls love to do together. At the same time, Ron’s feeling aren’t treated as totally irrational either and Kim even admits to ditching him. It’s a genuine, complex conflict that is super common when someone enters a new relationship be it platonic or romantic.

Obviously Kim Possible’s version of this conflict feels far less complex than Miraculous’ because Kim Possible understood that Ron should be Kim’s one-and-only partner, so his position was really never threatened. Monique does not want to be an action hero and is never given the sort narrative weight that elevates her to Ron’s level or higher, but that doesn't matter. The basic lesson here is still relevant and super important for the intended audience of both of these shows.

There did not need to be a Rena Rouge vs Chat Noir conflict that never got properly resolved. Miraculous could have made these two friends and no, Scarabella doesn't count because Chat Noir has no idea that Scarabella is Rena Rouge/Furtive. Their relationship ended at the end of Hack-San. He didn't even know that Rena Furtive was a thing until she was in the process of being benched and that's the problem.

Kim Possible is not a team show, Miraculous is, and yet Kim Possible has better team dynamics than Miraculous. Monique could have joined Kim's team at the end of Pain King vs. Cleopatra and it would have felt natural because both Kim and Ron had welcomed Monique and formed a genuine bond with her. This is a true friend group that Miraculous can only dream of even though they've been adding new superheroes since season two.

We're going into a season with a full, massive team and yet that team has no established dynamics on the hero side. It's not a functional team! None of these characters have meaningful relationships with each other as heroes save for Alya and Nino since they know each other’s secret identities. The only relationships Miraculous cares about are the various romances and everyone's relationship to Marinette and everyone suffers for it.

The show would not have been harmed by Rena Rouge, Chat Noir, and Ladybug being a team. It was the thing I kept think after watching the Kim Possible episode. Since the team is the end game, why aren't we seeing them? It would have been so nice to have Hack-San end with Ladybug introducing Chat Noir to Rena Furtive instead of a nonsense discussion about an issue the episode didn't even address.

[crimeronan]

i've seen a couple people in the notes of this very good post about fictional polyamory by @thebibliosphere say things along the lines of "oh, i've been doing it wrong :(" or "how do i know if i did this right??" or "i should probably give up and start over, i wrote this badly :(" and. no!!!!

(i AM seeing far MORE people say "oh, this clarified and helped me so much, i think i know how to fix issues i've been having with my own story" which. YES!!!!)

listen. if you're a monogamous person who's writing a polyamorous relationship, and you've been focusing mainly on The Triad and All Three Together All The Time as the endgame, that's literally fine. that's a perfectly acceptable and strong starting point for your plotting, imo. you do not need to give up on a story that you've started like this.

but the things discussed in the post Can and Should improve your execution!

you can keep the same plot beats and overall relationship arc 100%. polyamorous relationships are infinite in their formations, every one is unique. "basically a monogamous romance but with three people" Does exist, as a relationship type. you're not hashtag Misrepresenting (TM) poly people with it

BUT i do think it will help to read up on some poly people talking about how their relationships Differ from monogamous ones.

so i have outlined some basic important concepts about polyamory.

MORE IMPORTANTLY though, i've broken down some questions that you can answer throughout the writing process to strengthen your individual dyad relationships, your individual characterization, & your characters' individual feelings/experiences. this is a writing resource have fun

future kitkat butting in to say i spent over two hours writing this and it definitely needs a readmore. it is also NOT comprehensive. but everything should be pretty simple to follow! feel free to reblog if you find it helpful yourself or just want to reward me for how gotdan long this took KSLDKFJKDL.

i've grabbed quick links for a couple of the important concepts, some have SEO pitches in them but the info largely seems to be good. (if i missed anything Egregiously Gross on these sites i should be able to update the links with better ones later, since they're under the readmore.)

sidenote: this is NOT meant to be overwhelming, despite the length. if you can't read all of this, that's Okay. you do not need to give up on your writing.

here we go:

compersion!

compersion is a BIG thing in a lot of polyamorous relationships. it's joy derived from seeing two (or more) of your partners happy together, or joy derived from seeing your partner happy with someone else.

compersion is really important as a concept because it highlights that every individual relationship within a polycule is different -- and that that's a GOOD thing. it's sort of the inverse of jealousy.

by the "inverse of jealousy," i mean that instead of feeling left out and upset and possessive, you feel happy/joyous/content.

i can use personal experience as an example: it's a Relief for me when my partners receive joy/support/sex/romance/etc that i can't (or prefer not to) give them. and i love seeing my partners make each other laugh and be silly together.

it's 100% okay for a poly triad not to be together 100% of the time, it doesn't mean that the third member is being left out or not treated equally when two people do things alone together.

(i have individual dates with my partners all the time! PLUS larger 3-and-4-person date nights.)

if the third member DOES feel jealous or left out, then the polycule can have a conversation to figure out what needs/wants aren't being met, and solve that. this happens semi-regularly in my polycule, as it will happen in any relationship (including monogamous ones)! it's just part of being an adult, sometimes you have to talk about feelings.

metamours!

a metamour is someone who is dating your partner, but ISN'T dating you. this may not be relevant for people writing closed three-person romantic sexual triads, but it's a super helpful term to know.

the linked article also lists different types of metamour relationships with some fun phrasing i hadn't heard before. the tl;dr is: sometimes you'll be domestic cohabitation friends, sometimes you'll be buddies with your own friendship, sometimes you might not interact much outside of parties, every relationship is different.

there's no one-size-fits-all requirement for metamour relationships. sometimes polyamorous people will end up dating their metamour after a while (has happened to me), sometimes polyamorous people will break up with one partner for normal life reasons, but remain friendly metamours.

the goal of polyamory is NOT for EVERYONE to fall in love. it is 100% okay if this happens in your story, it happens in real life too! but it is also 100% okay for characters to be metamours without ever becoming "more than friends."

(sidenote: try to kill any internalized "more than" that you have when it comes to friendship. friends are just as important and special and vital as partners.)

of course there are a million ways for messiness to occur with metamours within a complex polycule, exactly like with close-knit platonic friend groups. however this post is not about that! there's enough "here's how polyamory can go wrong" stuff out there already, so i'm focusing on the positives here :)

open versus closed polyamorous relationships!

i'm struggling to find an online article that reflects my experience without directly contradicting at least SOME stuff. so i'll give a quick rundown

google has a bunch of conflicting definitions of open relationships and whether open relationships are different from polyamory. the general consensus seems to be that an open relationship prioritizes one partnership (often a marriage), but that each partner can have extraneous flings or long-term commitments (most often sexual in nature).

this is not typically how i use the term wrt polyamory. the poly concept is pretty simple. a closed polyamorous relationship is one with boundaries like a monogamous one. there are multiple partners in the polycule, but they are not interested in having anybody new join said polycule.

an open polyamorous relationship tends to be more flexible -- it just means that IF someone in the polycule develops mutual feelings for a new person, it's fine for them to become part of said polycule if they want to! the relationship/person is open to newcomers.

some groups will need to negotiate this all together, others will just go "haha, you kids have fun." just depends on the individuals!

with open AND closed polyamorous relationships, the most important thing is making sure that there's respectful communication and that everyone is on the same page. but there's no one-size-fits-all way to do that.

i wish i could give you guys a prescriptive "You Must Do It This Way" guide, but that's.... basically the opposite of what polyamory is about, HAHA.

feelings for multiple people!

i was gonna tack this on to the previous section but decided it warranted its own lil bit.

a defining feature (....i'm told?) of monogamous relationships is that a monogamous person only has feelings for One individual at a time. they only want a relationship with one individual at a time. or, if they DO have feelings for multiple people simultaneously, they're still only comfortable dating one person at a time & being exclusive with that one person.

this is perfectly fine!

the poly experience is generally different from this. but once again..... polyamorous people all have different individual perspectives on this.

for me, i have never been able to draw hard boxes around romantic vs sexual vs platonic relationships, & i love many people at once. my personal polycule lacks many strict definitions beyond "these are my chosen people, i want to forge a life with them indefinitely, whatever shape that life takes"

some poly people feel explicit romantic or sexual attraction to multiple people at once, some poly people feel almost no romantic or sexual attraction at all. i'd say that MOST poly people feel different things for different partners, which is not a bad thing!

some poly people are even monogamous-leaning -- they have just chosen one romantic partner who is themselves part of a larger polycule. (so this monogamous-leaning person has at least one metamour!)

or alternatively, they might have one romantic partner AND a qpr, or other ways of defining relationships. (this is a factor in my own polycule!)

i made this its own point because if you're writing a straightforward triad, this is unlikely to come up in the story itself -- but it's worth thinking about how your characters develop/handle feelings outside of their partnerships.

like, is this sort of a soulmateship, 'these are the only ones for me' type deal? in which they won't fall in love with anyone else, and can be fairly certain of that?

that's pretty close to typical monogamous standards but you Can make it work. just be thoughtful with it

alternatively, can you see any of these characters falling in love Again after the happily-ever-after? and how would the triad approach it, if so? what would they all need to talk about beforehand, and what feelings would everybody have about the situation?

it's worth considering these questions even if the hypothetical will never feature in your actual canon, because knowing the answers to these questions will help you understand all of the individuals & their relationship(s) MUCH better.

i've been typing this for nearly two hours and there's a lot more i COULD say because... there's just a lot to say. i'll close out with some quick questions that you can ask yourself when developing the dyad dynamics within your triad

first, take a page and create a separate section for each individual dyad. then answer these questions for every pair:

how does each pair act when alone?

how do they act differently alone compared to when they're with their third partner?

are there any elements of this dyad (romantic, sexual, financial, domestic, etc) that these two people DON'T have with the third partner?

if so, what are they?

are there any boundaries or hard limits within this dyad that aren't shared with the third partner?

if so, what are they?

partner 3 goes out of town alone for a few weeks. what are the remaining two doing in their absence?

(doesn't have to be anything special, it's just to get a sense of how the two interact on a day-by-day basis without the third there)

what is something that each partner in the dyad admires about the other -- that they DON'T necessarily see in the third partner?

what problem do These Two Specifically need to solve in the story before their relationship will work?

how is that problem DIFFERENT from the problems being solved within the other two dyads?

doing this for ALL THREE dyads is VITAL imo. that way, you develop complex and nuanced and different relationships that all have unique dynamics.

those questions should be enough to get you started, i hope

then After you've charted the differences in relationships, you can start to jot down similarities in the overarching triad. what does one person admire in Both of their partners? what are activities that all three like to do together? what are boundaries or discussions that all three share?

but the main goal is to figure out how to Differentiate each relationship!

a polycule is only as strong as the individual relationships within it. if two people are struggling with their own relationship, adding a third person won't fix that.

(UNLESS the third person is the catalyst for those two to, like, Actually Communicate And Work Their Shit Out. i just mean that the old adage of "maybe if we just add a third-" works about as well to fix a miserable non-communicative marriage as, uh, "maybe if we have a baby-")

AND FINALLY.

if you're not sure whether your poly romance reads organically to poly people, you can hire a sensitivity reader with poly experience. if you can't afford that, you can read up on polyamorous resources like a glossary of terms & articles actually written by poly people. (and stories written by poly people!)

you can also just.... ask poly people questions, if they're open to it. i like talking about polyamory and my own relationships so you're welcome to send asks if u want, i just can't guarantee i'll answer bc my energy levels fluctuate a lot and i don't always have time.

polyamorous people are in an uphill battle for positive representation right now & so the LAST thing i want to see is authors giving up on their stories bc they're worried about getting things Wrong. well-meaning and positive stories that treat this kind of love as normal, healthy, & aspirational are So So So Needed. even if you guys end up with some funky-feeling details.

seriously, if you're monogamous then you probably don't have a full idea of Just How Nasty a lot of people can get about polyamory. i wish it DIDN'T mean so much for you guys to want to write nice stories about us, but it does mean a lot. and it means a lot that you want to do it WELL.

in conclusion. this is not a prescriptive guide, it's just a way to raise questions. and also, you all are doing FINE.

[stevieschrodinger]

Eddie notices things.

He might be loud and brash, might be over the top and his mouth might run away before his brain can kick in, but he still notices things.

He likes the details. Loves a fantasy world that’s so detailed it’s believable. Loves a tiny detail in a story that becomes relevant two hundred pages later. Loves a detail in a puzzle in a DnD game. He loves the minutia of everything.

So he notices these details about people. Mostly because Eddie likes to create people. He likes to write his own stories, likes to make his DnD characters real...foibles and all. Any time Eddie is alone, or bored, or waiting, sometimes he looks around and thinks, ‘if I were writing this, how would I describe it?’ And then he does...he writes in his head about the tree he can see, what the weather is doing right now, how he would describe the quality of the sunlight or the way the rain rattles against the window. He watches complete strangers and writes out their whole life in his head. Eddie likes the details, and he likes to create characters, and he also thinks, a lot of the time, you write what you know.

So yeah, Eddie pays attention to the people around him. How they dress, how they behave, if they bite their nails or chew pen lids. If they stand straight or lounge against the nearest wall or counter. How they cradle their smoke in their hand when it’s breezy out.

All the little details he can build into characters he makes in his mind.

Steve’s calendar interests him. It probably shouldn’t, that stuff would be private if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s hanging in Steve’s kitchen where anyone can see it. Plus the fact that it is just a calendar and there for by it’s nature isn’t very interesting. Eddie thinks he finds it interesting just by the virtue that it’s to do with Steve Harrington, and therefore it immediately becomes very interesting to Eddie.

It’s got big pages, a decent amount of space to write in every day. And Steve has. Every single day.

There’s a pattern to it that Eddie deciphers pretty fast; his shift at work is on the top line; it’s in red. Next is anything to do with the kids, and it’s in green; picking the kids up or meeting them or going to a game for Lucas or basically anything like that. Then blue, and that seems to be stuff to do with Eddie himself, Robin, Nancy, if he needs to meet them, give them a ride somewhere, or just times to hang out.

The bottom line is in black, and it’s stuff like, ‘hoover’, ‘do laundry’, ‘bathroom,’ ‘kitchen’, ‘groceries,’ followed by a little note that seems to be about whatever Steve plans to have for dinner that night.

Below it is a note pad, also hanging up, with an in process grocery list on it. Eddie knows why all this is here; Steve’s forgetful.

If Steve makes plans, he immediately writes it down; Eddie’s seen it for himself.

Eddie sees it too, when Steve’s struggling to hear. If too many people speak at once, or if there’s too much background noise, Steve doesn’t stand a chance.

If he’s not looking at you when you’re speaking to him, chances are, he might not be hearing you. Which, okay, Eddie’s just kind of rolling with it.

Until they get together. No one was more surprised by this turn of events than Eddie, who was convinced that he was just going to pine after Steve forever and that would just be how things were for the rest of his life. That was right up until Steve Harrington held his hand and just sort of...seemed to forget to let go.

Eddie hasn’t pointed it out to him yet, he’s still kind of worried that if he points out the fact that they’re kind of, sort of, dating, Steve might realize and stop again. So yeah, Eddie rides the wave, not at all freaking out when Steve invites him over for dinner and a movie like that’s just a normal thing they do now. Because it is. Because they’re kind of dating.

There’s no answer, but that’s pretty normal, the front door is unlocked a lot of the time, Steve doesn’t want to hinder anyone's entry if there’s any kind of emergency going on, and it’s totally normal now for any of them to just wander into Steve’s house.

Steve is cooking; Eddie can smell it. He stands in the kitchen doorway and says Steve’s name. And predictably, Steve doesn’t react.

Eddie takes this as an opportunity to gauge this. He says Steve’s name a little louder; still nothing.

Eddie tries four times, a step closer and a little louder each time, until the last time, when Steve spins around so fast the spoon he’s holding splatters sauce on the counter top and his other hand flies to his chest, “holy shit.”

“Sorry,” Eddie rubs at Steve’s arm and shoulder as he gets his breathing under control, “you couldn’t hear me.”

Steve shrugs, “it’s fine.”

“Stevie…you could at least, you know, go get them checked, or whatever.”

Steve hums, "maybe, if you go with me," and Eddie's quick to agree, because he gets a kiss out of it.