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random-ln-stuff · 2 years ago

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Hello! Hi! I am deep diving hard in the little nightmares lore and I think I’ve scrolled though most of your blog now (lol). There are still a few things I’m confused about and can’t seem to find…

The north wind, What is it? What powers does it have? Why is it so strong?

The lords, who are they? Do they govern this wrapped world? Do they ever convene with one another?

The eye, is it one big eye? Or is it a realm beyond the no where? Does it control all the other eyes that we see in the games?

If this is too much feel free to ignore it! Sorry to ask so much stuff (I am genuinely trying to make sense of it all) ps. I absolutely adore everything you have in this blog!!

Reading this made me realize that there’s a couple things i just haven’t explained anywhere.

The following is a mix of headcanons and actual (vague) lore.

1: The North Wind.

The North Wind is a monster found in one of the two official Little Nightmares Comics.

In the story, the North Wind is a formless entity, being the wind itself, although he is shown to be capable of making himself a humanoid shaped body deep within the storm that he is, probably forming the shape of a person using dust and debris he’s picked up.

He’s shown making a wager with the Ferryman (which I now believe is “who can pull this child fully into the Nowhere first” or something similar) and given how he calls the Ferryman a Cheat, he’s probably done a similar thing with him many times before.

He’s also one of 3 entities that acknowledges the Ferryman’s existence, the other two being The Mall from the podcast, who recognizes the Ferryman and begs him not to take Noone, and the Lady, who the Ferryman works for.

Besides his ability to literally strip things to the bone with nothing but wind and his own control over it, the mere fact that the North Wind can both casually wager with the Ferryman and the fact the the Ferryman often needs to cheat to win against him shows that the North Wind is equally as powerful or at least very close in power to the Ferryman (and also the Lady).

As for WHY the North Wind is so powerful, I think it’s because of the same reason that the Ferryman is so powerful, but I’ll get into that in a bit.

2: Lords.

First off: All inhabited areas of Nowhere have some sort of Vice or Obsession related to it. A thing that most, if not all of the inhabitants are obsessed with. The Pale City had Escapism and TVs, wherever Guests come from (and by extension the Maw, which is a restaurant that serves these people, not their original home) has food and hunger, etc.

(The Nest is an exception. It doesn’t have any sort of Vice because it’s only inhabited by three people, not counting the Lady whenever she presumably stays there, and doesn’t have the population or resources or anything to sustain any kind of obsession. Sure the Pretender has her dolls, but that’s more of a “spoil this kid rotten” thing than an addiction)

A Lord is basically just my word for “Any creature that controls a given area or vice of the Nowhere”. Meaning The Lady, The Broadcaster (not the Thin Man, but a separate being. I got a whole theory post on that), and if you take the Podcast into account, The Chained Woman, Living Mall and Ventriloquist. Along with any other rulers of the Nowhere we haven’t seen yet or even will never see.

Also included in this list are The North Wind, Ferryman and Signal Tower Flesh Walls. They don’t truly control any real areas (unless you count the North Wind tearing his way through the wilderness) but their power and influence is too great to really ignore, especially since out of the three of them, two work directly together with other Lords in ways that other minions simply can’t. The Ferryman works for the Lady alongside dragging kids into Nowhere to begin with, bringing them to either the Maw or the Nest depending on what the Lady needs. The Flesh Walls aid the Broadcaster in his control over the Pale City, helping spread the Transmission by literally being the Transmission Tower. I’d even argue that for the Ferryman and Flesh Walls, helping the Lady and Broadcaster respectively is more of a beneficial partnership than working under them, especially for the Flesh Walls.

Lords are also the entities that can pull children into the Nowhere, although some do it far more than others and as such are more experienced. For example: The Ferryman, North Wind, Living Mall and Flesh Walls.

(Also while I’m on the topic, I fully believe that Noone’s dream in Ep 3 of the Podcast is essentially an unplanned, forced detour for Noone’s Nowhere Tour, with the Living Mall being the thing that pulls her in this time instead of the Ferryman, which is why the Ferryman ends up taking her away from the Mall at the end instead of just letting her do whatever until she wakes up again. This would explain not only why the Ferryman actually helped Noone during her escape from the Mall, pointing at her necklace and gesturing for her to take it off before offering Noone his hand to escape (which brings to mind the North Wind comic, where the Ferryman does the exact same gesture to the Refugee Boy to take him away from the North Wind), an action we never him do before or after episode 3 when Noone is in danger, but also why the Mall got incredibly distressed and angry at the Ferryman when he showed up. The Mall pulled Noone in themselves this time, and the Ferryman had to show up to make sure his target didn’t get caught by different Lord before he could take her.)

Lords are the most powerful creatures found in the Nowhere, often possessing incredible power and uniquely, more humanlike intelligence and qualities. Adults in the Nowhere are more often than not mindless child killers who simply do their job or keep up with their obsession or vice (the Teacher teaching, the Hunter hunting, Viewers being addicted to the Transmission, etc) and completely LOSE IT when they see a child, gunning straight for it with the intent to kill unless something even more important (usually Obsession related) happens to stop them. It’s shown that some non-Lords can resist these child-killing urges with some practice like the Thin Man refusing to actually harm Six when he grabs her (although he did still leave Six to be corrupted in the Tower) and the Butler being able to look after the Pretender, who is a child, but this seems to be the exception. Especially since in all cases of this happening, there’s a reason for it. The Thin Man can still recognize Six, The Butler doesn’t harm the Pretender because she’s the Lady’s daughter, who the Butler works for and fears for VERY good reason, the Hunter didn’t kill Six immediately because he wanted to either cook or taxidermy her at a later date, etc

Meanwhile Lords have been seen completely ignoring any sort of child killing urge or compulsion easily. The Lady looked after anywhere from 2 to 6 children and is the one that trained the Butler to not attack her children in the first place, the Living Mall is extremely possessive, but doesn’t appear to have any real intentions of harming Noone, just wanting to keep her happy so she won’t leave them to be alone again and even begs her not to go further into the Nowhere for her own safety and even the Ferryman, despite his constant kidnapping of children in and out of Nowhere, never resorts to outright harming them or chasing them down like a wild animal like some other adults.

The Ferryman especially is a good example of this. Instead of chasing and snatching up any child he sees or mindlessly chasing one no matter the cost or killing them immediately upon capture, the Ferryman usually manipulates kids into giving themselves up nonviolently and is extremely persistent in doing so, stalking targets for YEARS if he has to in order to manipulate them or to wait for them to get into a position to be manipulated. He does tie up Six when bringing her to the Maw, but even prior to that he doesn’t chase Six down or harm her in order to capture her. He simply finds Six and points at her, causing every adult nearby to also point and make noises at her (possibly showing that the Ferryman has some sort of control or commanding power over Adults, just like some other lords we see), which overwhelms Six to the extent that she just curls up and tries to block out the noise, and after that the Ferryman presumably just walked over and took her without resistance, avoiding any sort of chase or fight entirely.

This isn’t to say that Lords won’t attack children or will treat them with any sort of kindness, the Lady will kill any intruders she can find and the North Wind seems to seriously enjoy killing things, making a whole game out of it with the Ferryman, but what I’m saying is that they’re able to resist those natural child-killing instincts if they ever want or need to. If a Lord kills a child, it’s because they want to, not because they need to. And boy do they often want to.

They’re also noticeably more aware and intelligent than typical adults. For the best example of this, compare the Maw and Signal Tower to any other adult in complexity.

Every year at the same time, but never in the same place, the Maw shows up, brings guests aboard and lets them eat endless amounts of delicious food and meat, only to later kill all of the guests aboard to feed the Lady with their souls.

The Signal Tower keeps producing the Signal by using a time loop. The loop is initially set up when the Broadcaster finds Mono, a child with signal powers, and attacks the Pale City Orphanage that he’s living in. The two meet, something we don’t get to see happens and Mono ends up in the forest outside the city, most likely coming out of one of the TVs there. Then Mono meets Six and the two journey through the Pale City. The actual loop begins when Mono releases the Thin Man, who kidnaps Six (and removes her soul by doing so). Mono then kills the Thin Man, and enters the Tower, only for a soulless Six to leave him there. Mono is then used as a living battery to create the transmission until he’s too old to be useful, at which point Mono (now The Thin Man) is released from the tower by his past self and is then eventually killed by his past self, who goes on to become trapped in the tower and so on infinitely.

All of these things are not only complicated (Especially the Loop), but when compared to other adults, even adults with Jobs like the Teacher and Doctor, have something that other adults don’t: A Purpose and Ultimate Goal.

The Teacher endlessly teaches fake students that can’t grow, change, learn or ever leave the school. She will do that forever simply because she is a Teacher and Teachers teach. The Doctor endlessly preforms surgeries on patients that never leave, simply waiting in the hospital to go through it all again, once again, simply because the Doctor is a Doctor and that’s what doctors do. The Hunter hunts and taxidermies because he’s a hunter, end of story. These adults CAN do things other than their jobs if they want to, like the Teacher playing the Piano in her free time and even writing and editing her own piece, but in the end they’re stuck endlessly doing their jobs for no real reason, with no end goal, simply because that is what they do.

But the Lady and Broadcaster are different. For example: The Maw’s whole thing isn’t something the Lady does just because she’s The Owner or The Host of the Maw and that’s what she does, she does it to keep herself alive, maintaining the whole thing as a way to guarantee a steady supply of souls to keep herself going year after year. In fact: The Lady didn’t originally run the Maw. She forcibly took it over from the previous owner (The Granny). In other words: The Lady planned out everything with the Maw. She took over because she wanted to use it as a guest trap and continues to use it as so. There’s also the Lady’s connections to the Nest, showing that the Lady can just straight up stop the Maw stuff in its entirety for a while and do whatever the hell she wants at the Nest, not to mention her own collection of books and spells deeper in her personal quarters, further abandoning any semblance of “I run the Maw because I am it’s owner and therefore it is my purpose”. The Lady runs the Maw and keeps track of all her employees because she wants to (use it to become immortal), not because it’s her only true purpose in life.

Her name actually somewhat reflects this. Instead of a job title or something similar, her name is simply “The Lady”. “The Lady of the Maw” for long. It’s just a description of her. Not a job title. Because the Lady does what she wants and doesn’t have a preset job-related purpose. The Broadcaster can also technically be used here as well, because The Broadcaster isn’t actually his name. We don’t know his name. He’s simply a second Thin Man that you can find if you search through the Lore enough. I just call him the Broadcaster because that was the Thin Man’s original name when LN2 had just recently been announced.

(The Thin Man also has a non-job-related name and isn’t a lord, but that’s because he doesn’t actually have a job to define him with. He’s a living battery for the signal tower, nothing more and nothing less.)

Point is, Lords are way more intelligent than the typical adult, and are able to think in ways that regular adults simply can’t.

Also (and this one is a pure headcanon with little canon evidence): Lords have the unique ability to speak in a language that both Children and Adults understand, when normally Children and Adults simply can’t understand each other. The only other creatures that can do this are The Butler, a Non-Lord Adult who can speak Child thanks to the Lady, The Pretender, a child that can speak Adult also thanks to the Lady, and Children that are still in the process of being dragged into the Nowhere, like Noone being able to hear and understand an adult shopkeeper.

Lords can be aware of each other, interact and even work together, as seen with both the Lady and The Ferryman working together either with the Ferryman working underneath the Lady or both on an equal partnership (it’s hard to say given how powerful the Ferryman is and how we don’t know what he’s getting out of this partnership) and the Broadcaster and Flesh Walls working together to create the Transmission, the Loop and everything else that keeps the Pale City the way it is. It really just depends on how close their respective domains are.

In fact: we know two Lords who are either rivals or outright enemies: The Lady and The Broadcaster (once again, a separate entity from the Thin Man, although they look nearly identical).

In Little Nightmares 2, you can find an apartment that used to belong to the Lady, implying that she used to live in the Pale City.

It even has a picture of her (Masked, implying that she had her powers long before coming to the Maw, throwing a massive wrench into the Cycle Of Ladies theory) and one of her ceramic statues. The Glitching Remain found near it might even be the shadow-lifeforce-soul-stuff that the Lady stores inside those things, having leaked out and gotten ensnared by the Transmission.

Given the state of the Pale City and how the Lady now views the mainland as “Chaos”, it’s pretty clear that the Lady lived in the Pale City before the Broadcaster and Signal Tower showed up, and the Lady left once the Transmission started up.

Then in the Nest, we have the Lady locking up a TV in a heavy duty room while suspending it in the air (presumably so nothing can come through and if something does, the TV will fall and break, preventing them from escaping).

Combine that with the Broadcaster’s failed attempt to enter the Maw through a TV in the Post-Credits of Secrets Of The Maw and one of the Pretender’s drawings depicting the Broadcaster, and it’s very possible that the Lady did this in response to the Broadcaster trying to enter the Nest through that specific TV. To prevent him from taking her daughter. It would certainly explain why that TV was rigged to be one way. If the Broadcaster were to come through, the TV would fall, preventing the Broadcaster from escaping with a kidnapped Pretender.

It’s not the only TV in the Nest, as the Pretender does have one of her own, but there’s also a possibility that this specific TV is special somehow. Maybe it’s the only one in the Nest that can access live TV and signals, with the Pretender’s TV only being able to play pre-recorded stuff.

Final point is, both the Lady and the Broadcaster seem to despise each other, with the Lady leaving the Pale City once he showed up and the Broadcaster making multiple attempts to enter the Maw and Nest, most likely with the intention of harming the Lady and/or the Pretender.

As for how Lords are made, I headcanon that there’s two ways. A Deal with The Eye or being Made By It.

For the second opinion you have The Ferryman, North Wind, Signal Tower and Living Mall. They were just straight up created by the Eye. They aren’t the only ones either, as other Lords like them still have the capability to exist out there in the Nowhere. These are just the Lords we’ve seen.

As for why I believe these guys were created by the Lord, just look at them and what they’re capable of.

The Ferryman is described as a otherworldly figure with a face resembling melting wax (fun fact: that exact description is used in the podcast and is a reference to the Cut Character The Wax Bellman, who was confirmed out of universe to be an older beta version of what would later become the Ferryman.), who can shapeshift, teleport, speaks entirely in riddles and is shown to have direct connections to EXTREMELY powerful creatures, not to mention that Otto identifies him as “The guardian at the threshold. A mythic entity who’s appeared in the stories of innumerable cultures.”

The North Wind is a formless entity that is the Wind, is on par with the Ferryman in power and out of universe, The North Wind is often a character in legends and stories of various cultures, just like how Otto describes the Ferryman.

The Signal Tower and Living Mall are so similar that I first they were the same character. They’re giant masses of flesh covered in eyes that can mimic entire buildings. The eyes alone should give these things off.

Coincidentally (or not), these four specific lords are the ones who are better at invading people’s dreams and accessing Our World, with the Ferryman in particular being so adept at it that Otto initially believes him to be The “guardian at the threshold” of the Nowhere. In reality, all Lords we see can access our world through dreams, and it turns out that Eye-Created Lords are just naturally better at it. The Ferryman isn’t THE guardian at the threshold that Otto is looking for, but A guardian at the threshold. A Lord. One of many.

For the others like The Lady, Broadcaster and most of the Podcast Lords, they started out as regular adults.

Now it’s important to note that Regular Adults, despite being bound to that singular purpose or job, can do things outside of it and have unrelated things on the side, like the Teacher playing and composing on the piano in her free time.

For many, this is where it starts, with an adult using that Free Time and stuff on the side in very specific ways. They start researching the world they inhabit and how it works, the Nowhere, Magic, The Eye, and it all eventually culminates in them somehow getting the attention of the Eye itself, and making a deal with it. Either that or the Adult comes into close contact with another Lord, who ends up bringing the Eye’s attention to the adult for them.

The deal is all the benefits that lords have over regular adults (plus whatever is unique to them, like the Lady’s shadow magic and the Broadcaster’s signal powers) in exchange for… something. We don’t know exactly what, but this something is generally assumed to be souls. Many souls. For example, the Viewers of the Pale City are eventually consumed by the Televisions they watch, leaving behind only their clothes. It’s assumed that their souls are claimed by the Eye through this, the Eye getting any and all souls that the transmission ensnares and drags into itself.

Speaking of which….

The All Seeing Eye:

To my understanding and theorizing, the Little Nightmares Universe looks like this:

You have Reality as we know it, The Threshold between Reality and Nowhere, Nowhere itself, an unknown space that most likely just contains another threshold, this time between the Nowhere and the Nightmare World and the Nightmare World itself, which I also call the Eye’s Domain.

The Eye is a cosmic horror-esque eldritch monstrosity. Simple as that. It is the ruler and sole inhabitant of its domain, the Nightmare World. The Eye’s Domain essentially stands opposite to ours in a cosmic sense, and the Nowhere is created where both of these very different worlds overlap ever so slightly.

Also in a very disturbing twist, the Nowhere is actually essentially the universe’s DEFAULT STATE, or at least is as close as to you can get to it, and at some point in the incomprehensibly distant past (most likely during or even before the literal Big Bang), it separated into the stable, orderly “reality” where we live and exist and the horrifying chaotic eldritch nightmare world where the Eye exists.

We know this thanks to the Ferryman’s words: “Two flows from one, and here, is whole again”. In other words, there used to be one world, but then they separated into two, and in the Nowhere, both worlds meet again.

This also means that the Eye most likely predates the entire universe as we know it. In fact, I’d compare it to this bit of Adventure Time Lore:

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The Eye’s Realm is literally just Eldritch madness the mortal mind can’t comprehend. Pure chaos with the Eye being omnipresent, all seeing and in full control of everything that happens in there. But the Nowhere is different. It’s not created by the Eye, at least not on purpose. The Nowhere is a space between spaces, where our reality meets the Eye’s nightmarish hellscape, and the end result is the Nowhere, where things make JUST enough sense to be comprehensible while also being filled with the Eye’s nightmares and corruption.

The Eye can see into the Nowhere and is almost always watching almost everywhere at once, but can’t truly interact with anything outside its domain like the Nowhere or Our World (thank god), but it can use other methods to influence things, like it’s various Lords. The massive amount of Eyes seen all over the franchise are less a thing the Eye looks through and more just a sign of Its Presence. It can’t show up physically, but the Eye symbols are a sign that it’s here and watching regardless.

However, despite the Eye being unable to physically appear in the Nowhere, we’ve seen it. In Episode 6 of the Podcast.

In episode 6, Noone is brought to the Threshold, the final barrier between the Real World and Nowhere, where crossing it will trap you forever. The Threshold (or at least Our side of it) is described as Extremely Dark, filled with black mist that makes it extremely hard to see, and contains a single wooden door simply described as “Ancient” with a symbol of the Eye on it. But after Noone crosses through the door and sees the Nowhere side of the Threshold, it’s different.

The Mist vanishes, and Noone sees countless stars that fill the sky with a red moon, but quickly realizes that those aren’t stars, they’re Eyes. Even the Red Moon is just a Massive, Red Eye. That is our description of the Eye itself.

The Eye can’t enter the Nowhere or Our World, but seems to be fully capable of existing within that border space between the realms, although it’s power is somewhat limited here compared to in its own domain.

Or maybe you can just see into the other realms from the Threshold. The Nowhere is compared to a one-way mirror at some point. Earth is on the mirrored side, and can’t look into the Nowhere, while the Nowhere can look at us. Presumably, the Nightmare Realm follows the same idea. From inside the Nightmare Realm, you can’t see the Nowhere either. You are on the mirrored side of a one way mirror. But from the Threshold, and more specifically the part of the Threshold that’s closer to the Nowhere? You are on the side of the mirror that lets you look straight through it, and with Noone being in-between Reality, The Nowhere AND the Nightmare World, she might have be able to look straight at the Eye in its domain, looking at it through the one-way mirror that is reality.

Anyways, That description of Countless Glowing Eyes matching the amount of stars in the sky with a single massive Red Eye surrounded by rings in the centre is the closest we can come to understanding what the Eye looks like. It’s the most complicated form it can take that we as human beings can still comprehend without going insane.

But there’s more. In episode 5, Otto attempts to use a machine to see into Noone’s dreams, but is stopped at the dark mist of the Threshold. He watches as a single eye appears from the darkness, and then it opens, staring at Otto with such intensity that he’s physically in pain from it, barely able to choke out words as he rambles that “it’s watching me” until the machine he’s using completely breaks down.

In other words, Otto tried to stare into the abyss that is Nowhere, but the Eye cut him off and stared right back.

Also also: Otto’s reaction to the Eye staring at him plus the sound it makes as it does so reminds me exactly of the Sentry Eyes used in the Maw and Nest that turn people caught in its gaze to stone. There’s also the unused TV Eyes from LN2 that do the same thing and it looks like the Mechanical Monster Baby in LN3 can do the same thing with it’s own eyes. This leads me to believe that many Lords directly draw upon the Eye for magical power, and Sentry Eyes (and the Eye Cameras in the Maw) use raw power taken straight from the Eye to power themselves.

Also as pure headcanon: In my headcanon post about some children being native to the Nowhere and some being from Earth, I mentioned two things:

Children that are visiting Nowhere as they sleep (like Noone) but haven’t been fully pulled in yet will disappear from Nowhere and go back to Earth if they die in the Nowhere, Fall Asleep in the Nowhere, or “go unobserved for too long”.

Children will naturally appear in the Nowhere (basically spawn in like Minecraft Mobs) in any area that is completely unobserved.

For both of these things, I’m not just talking about going unobserved by others, but also by the Eye.

The Eye, despite being present almost everywhere in the Nowhere and having a reputation as being all-seeing, is not perfect. Occasionally, a tiny gap will appear in its all-seeing sight, and when it can’t see a spot, Children, one of the only things immune to its corrupting, nightmarish presence, have a chance to appear in that unobserved spot.

#little nightmares #headcanons #theory #lore #asks #the eye #the North wind

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dashboarddiaries · 1 year ago

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Dashboard Diaries is a production of Atypical Artists, hosted by Lauren Shippen (@thelaurenshippen) and Cher McAnelly (@overchers). Our theme was composed by Lauren Shippen and mixed by Brandon Grugle. Art by Shae McMullin. Transcription by Laudable.

For bonus clips, ad-free episodes, and more, become a patron at atypicalartists.co/support.

Lauren: Hello, Dashers! Lauren Shippen here with a quick little comment about this episode before we jump into it. My computer had a complete and total meltdown in the course of recording ... or attempting to record ... this episode. I eventually got things working again but there will be times in this episode where my audio sounds truly terrible. I’m really sorry about that. But it shouldn’t affect the wonderful experience of listening to Gretchen McCulloch talk about Tumblr linguistics. It’s a really, really fun episode. A great interview with Gretchen. So, I hope you guys enjoy ... and sorry for the technical difficulties.

[intro music]

Lauren: Hello, Enthusiasts! I’m Lauren Shippen, professional writer, who absolutely has brought Tumblr-speak into her real spoken life.

Cher: And I’m Cher McAnelly, Head of Entertainment at Tumblr. And student at Tumblr University.

Lauren: And this is Dashboard Diaries, a podcast for you – the folks who are in this internet bunker with us. We talk about what’s going on in our favorite hell site, get into what we like to call “tumbl-lore,” do fandom deep dives, and share the times when we’ve gone feral over a new ship.

And we have a really, really fun guest for you all later. But first, let’s do some Dashboard Confessionals.

[guitar riff]

Cher, what do you have from the archives for us this month?

Cher: So, I have two posts, both of which I feel very much tie in with the topic of the episode today. So, I couldn’t decide between the two. Both of which I re-blogged in July 2015. So, the first one is from user: officalcrow. It’s a text post that says “To my doctor after getting laser eye surgery: So, how do I shoot them?”

Lauren: (laughs) That’s very good.

Cher: The next one is very, very relevant I think to this episode. It is a screenshot of a YouTube video that says, “New computer terms:” and then it lists out “Avatar #trolling and meme.” And it’s from user: literallysame. Which I think, yeah, ties in really well with the focus of our episode today. What do you have for us today, Lauren?

Lauren: So, I have a post from, let’s see, 2014 from user: digitaltits. The post is a little bit like ... the one that I’m going to re-blog the post formatting is a little bit messed up because it’s such an old post and the original poster has since deleted the post I think. So, anyway ... but it says, “Mood. *white kid from ‘90s TV show on bed throwing baseball up in the air and catching it while staring at the ceiling*” And that’s just such a specific mood. And I know exactly what this user is talking about. And I totally feel that mood often.

Cher: As do I. It really captures the essence of the moment. (laughs)

Lauren: It really does. It’s amazing what language can do.

Cher: We love language!

[game show trill]

Lauren: So, this month we have a very, very special guest with us. We have Gretchen McColloch who is the host of the Lingthusiasm Podcast and Internet Linguist, and author of, “Because Internet.” Which I think has to be my favorite book about the internet that I’ve ever read. Thank you so much for joining us, Gretchen!

Gretchen: Thank you so much for having me!

Lauren: What is an internet linguist and how on earth did you get into that as a profession?

Gretchen: So, I spend a lot of time on the internet. (laughs) And also I think like many linguists I can’t really turn that linguist part of my brain off. So, if I am at a party or just talking to someone I’m always sort of analyzing bits about how they talk. And by the end of this podcast I’m going to have a whole report for you.

Lauren: Oh no!

(laughter)

Gretchen: Nothing but good things, I promise. So, spending a lot of time online also means that I wanted to know more about how people were using language online. I also think of myself as an internet linguist as in a linguist FOR internet people. Because I started my blog, which is called All Things Linguistic on Tumblr back in 2012, during the first era of when Tumblr was cool. And I started it when I was in grad school for linguistics and I was feeling myself sort of inching further and further out of that ivory tower and also feeling like I wanted to retain that sense of connection that I’d felt with linguistics when I was discovering it as a high school student and reading pop linguistic books and feeling like this really had this very direct applicability to my everyday life.

So, doing pop linguistics or linguistics communication or internet linguistics is also a way for me of retaining that connection and being a linguist FOR the people of the internet or OF the people of the internet in addition to doing it on the language that’s found online.

Lauren: I love that. So, you started this blog on Tumblr. Was that the first time you sort of got on Tumblr was to make that blog? Or did you have some familiarity with the platform previously?

Gretchen: (laughs) You know what? No one has ever asked me that question and it’s such a good question!

Lauren: Oh my gosh!

Gretchen: It was NOT my first time on Tumblr. (laughs)

Cher: Ooh! What brought you to Tumblr?

Gretchen: So, do you remember the era of ... there was the “what should we call me” Tumblr era where it was ... a lot of it was very student-y. You know? “When I’m late for class ...” and then there’d be a gif. And then there would be all these sort of extra single serving Tumblrs that I think of like single topic Tumblrs that would be about a specific thing. And then there were all these different versions of those. And there were all of these advice animal Tumblrs that would be like a specific domain.

So, the first Tumblr that I was involved with was some other linguistics undergraduate students and I collaborated ... Philosoraptor was probably the best known but there was like Philosophy this and History major that or whatever. And so we decided that the mascot for linguistics needed to be the Lingcod.

Lauren: Oh my god! I remember this blog!

Gretchen: Wait!? You saw the Linguistics Lingcod back in the day? That was us!

Lauren: That’s amazing.

Cher: Oh my god.

Lauren: Oh my COD.

Gretchen: Oh my cod! Exactly. So, we found this truly horrendous picture of a fish. This is not a pretty fish. It’s got these big teeth and it’s got this sort of open jaw. (laughs) We found this truly horrendous picture of a lingcod. And we made some captions for it and we made this single serving Tumblr. I bet Linguistics Lingcod is probably still there. Someone has probably forgotten the login. I don’t know if I actually ...

Cher: I can get you back in.

Gretchen: (laughter)

Cher: I have that power.

Gretchen: Oh my god! (laughs) There were other linguist advice animal memes that were more popular than us.

Lauren: Oh my god. Really?

Gretchen: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. We were a bunch of Canadian undergrad students. And so Linguist Lioness was also around for a little bit. But the really popular was one Linguistics Llama.

Cher: Oh my gosh.

Lauren: I do remember Linguistics Llama, too, actually. YES.

Gretchen: Linguistics Llama. We’ve been in the same [inaudible 00:07:18] of the internet for a long time, Lauren. I just have that feeling.

Lauren: Obviously.

Cher: Oh my gosh.

Gretchen: And Linguistics Llama was not by me or my friends. And it had one of those backgrounds with the spiral colors and it had a scarf which was very classy of it. And I did ultimately ... I don’t know if IRL but I definitely exchanged Tumblr DM’s with the guy who ran the Linguistics Llama account who was an undergrad at NYU or somewhere like that. And so I had been aware of Tumblr for a couple of years before that from the meme perspective.

Lauren: That’s fantastic!

Cher: I love the concept of a single serving Tumblr. Or how each post is its own serving, snack, bite or whatever it is ... bite sized post.

Gretchen: And you still see these sort of themed Tumblrs, especially these days a lot of Tumblrs ... There’s the Tumblr that makes a calligraphy version of the post.

Lauren: Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Gretchen: Or there’s the haiku bot Tumblr that re-blogs posts that have accidentally a haiku in them. These days a lot of those single serving Tumblrs are a bit more interactive. But you still see ones that are like, “I’m just posting things on one topic” and have this very narrowly constrained post type and they’ll pick a type of post. That was partly why I picked the name All Things Linguistic because I was like I want this to be very clear that this is a linguistics Tumblr. And that I’m going to post about not one specific area of linguistics, that’s what the word “all” means. (laughs)

Lauren: Right.

Gretchen: (laughs) But that it’s sort of all around that. I didn’t really realize despite ... so, I knew about these single serving Tumblrs and the linguistic advice animals. But I didn’t really know that there were people who were hanging out in the linguistics tag on Tumblr until I got on there and I saw people re-blogging my post and them tagging it “linguistics” and seeing some of the other posts on there. So, then I was like, “Oh, there’s a whole community here that I could be a part of. It’s not just sort of randomly whatever is going on.” But yeah, I picked Tumblr because I knew how the interface worked from the back in the day Linguistics Lingcod.

Lauren: That’s amazing. I love that you’ve always been doing linguistics on Tumblr. That that’s sort of always been your relationship to it. And we like to think of Tumblr as this very niche unique place in terms of how we talk to each other and the memes that we have and sort of the internal language we have. In all of the online spaces that you’ve been in do you feel like Tumblr does have sort of a unique language unto itself?

Gretchen: I remember a couple of years ago on Twitter, maybe 2018, 2019, there were all of these Twitter memes that were coming up. And I was like, I saw these on Tumblr eight years ago! (laughter)

Cher: Yep.

Gretchen: There was that period where it was like, oh, okay, so the Twitter people have discovered Spiders George. That’s cool.

Cher: [crosstalk 00:10:17]

Gretchen: I was just about to make the same reference! “Do not cite the dark magic to me which I was there when it happened!”

(laughter)

Cher: Exactly.

Lauren: That shared language really is such a huge part of the Tumblr experience.

Gretchen: That’s the thing. You have this sort of shared vocabulary. A couple of things that I think are really interesting about Tumblr is that, one, is the half life of posts is so much incredibly longer.

Lauren: Yeah! Oh, interesting.

Gretchen: And the half life of a tweet – especially when I first joined Twitter which was actually also in 2012 but a little bit later in 2012. It was like six months later. Which felt like an eon because i was like, “I understand internet platforms now. I’m going to join all of them.” But the half life of tweets when I joined was maybe like an hour or two. And then Twitter started putting their thumb on the algorithm a little bit more and the half life of a tweet became more like six hours or twelve hours of if this tweet gets so legs it’s going to keep going and keep giving you notifications a day or two in. But the half life of a post on Tumblr. I mean, first of all, even a post that’s not very popular that’s only liked by a few of your friends or your mutual’s kind of thing is still like 12 hours. Because people catch up on their whole dash.

Cher: [crosstalk 00:11:28]

Gretchen: I was gonna say. Do you have stats on this?

Cher: I do! I have a fun metric. About 1/3 of engagement on Tumblr posts happens 30+ days after posting.

Gretchen: Yeah! Yeah!

Lauren: That’s wild.

Gretchen: I totally buy it. Especially if you just make a post that’s a little update for your mutual’s or something it’s probably not going to have a ton of engagement later but any sort of post that gets a re-blog or two – it just lasts so much longer. I’ve had posts that I made this post five years ago but it’s still going around.

Lauren: Absolutely.

Cher: It’s always funny to go by on your dashboard that you posted years ago.

Gretchen: Yeah!

Lauren: That happens to me sometimes on my ... I’ve got a public facing Tumblr and then my real Tumblr and every now and then on my real Tumblr dash I’ll see my own post from my public facing Tumblr from eight months ago kind of cross my dash. And that’s always such a strange moment. Especially since I think that Tumblr users are very good at digging up really old stuff somehow and then all of a sudden circulating a post a year after the fact. And I think that this can mean that certain things become sort of baffling popular. I kind of wanted to get your perspective on this, Gretchen – around why certain memes or ... I think the word “blorbo” especially is a great example of this ... why certain words catch on when others don’t. What makes something sort of become part of the permanent lexicon versus something that just gets passed around for a couple of months?

Gretchen: Yeah. I think there’s sort of two parts to that. One is this question of why do posts last so much longer? And the fact that posts last so much longer is a contributor to Tumblr having more of a culture because if you missed it the first time around you have so many more opportunities to see it. Whereas sometimes on a faster moving social network – I’m thinking of sort of the Twitter family of networks. So, Twitter, Blue Sky, Mastodon, all of those ones that are sort of very short text post based. You can show up after six hours and Bean Dad has happened and you’re like, “What!? I’ve missed all of this!?” Whereas on Tumblr things don’t show up on your dash quite as quickly. But [crosstalk 00:13:45] a lot longer.

I think that’s partly related to the queue feature. The queue feature is really a driver of that. Because people put posts in their queues and then they resurface a week later, a month later, three months later, six months later and partly that person still looks like they’re active and maybe some of the posts they’re making are live. But also they can resurface their post that they saw six months ago and it shows up on your dash now and maybe you decide to re-blog it or you decide to put it in your queue and this extends the half life yet again.

Lauren: That makes a lot of sense.

Gretchen: Other platforms really don’t have that ... on something like Word Press ... Which Word Press is fine. I use Word Press for my professional website. And I can schedule posts there. But what I can’t do is automatically put them in this sort of system that’s going to doll them out without me having to think about it. I have to say, “This post goes up next Tuesday at 2PM.” I can’t say, “Just put it up at some point in the future, whenever you run out of other stuff to put up.”

Lauren: Yeah. I love and use the queue feature. I haven’t really thought about it in that way before.

Cher: And I love how Tumblr users will often tag their queued posts. And they have all these fun little puns. “This one’s for queue,” or whatever it is and they post those ... there’s a whole queue tag ... I don’t know ... subgenre.

Gretchen: Or like, “You’re a queue-tie” or something like that. Yeah.

Cher: Exactly!

Gretchen: The queue is a big factor for that. But also the scheduling thing. Because some posts get tied to specific days and times. So, Julius Caesar Ides of March stuff going up around the Ides of March or like the September song, 21st of September, do you remember? This type of stuff. Stuff that gets tied to a specific day, people see it the day after and they go, oh, damn, I missed the window to put it up. I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to schedule this for this day next year.

Lauren: Yes!

Gretchen: Because I’ve done that!

Lauren: Me too!

Gretchen: I missed my window! Okay, I’ll just schedule it for next year with this idea that I’m still going to be here, people are still going to see it next year. Putting it into the future that way because it’s a way of participating in the culture. And also the idea of have I re-blogged this post a few years ago, yep, maybe sure, I don’t care, I’m re-blogging it again because I’m seeing it.

Cher: Yep. Neil banging out the tunes, April 13th.

Gretchen: Yes. Yeah.

Lauren: Right. All of these real holidays and all of these holidays that Tumblr has made up, or even days of the week memes! You know? Every fandom sort of has it. Whatever Wednesday. Yeah, that keeps a specific kind of culture alive.

Gretchen: That part keeps it sort of going. I think the tags on Tumblr also contribute sometimes to posts getting revived again after a longer period. Because when you’re browsing for tags ... let’s say you just got into a show for the first time and you’re like, “Oh, what have other people posted? I want to re-post some gifs.” So, you go into the tag for that show and you filter for gifs and you start re-blogging them. And some of those people may have put those gifs up years ago. Depending on when the show came out. But you’re re-blogging them now because you’re browsing via tags and looking for stuff to put on your blog. That’s a kind of behavior that you don’t see ... there are other platforms that have tags but Instagram has hash tags and people browse with them but they have a very impoverished post sharing ability. You can really only do it in your story and then it disappears after 24 hours and so you don’t get anything like a re-blog culture.

Twitter has a re-tweet culture and all the sort of Twitter family of networks. I’m on Blue Sky these days, baby. (laughs) And they have a re-tweet culture but they don’t have this “I’m gonna go find this and re-tweet all these tweets that are super old,” because they feature the timestamp very prominently on the tweet and so this idea of if you’re re-tweeting something that’s a week old it’s like, “Well, where were you?” Tumblr doesn’t feature timestamps very prominently anywhere on the posts. And so every post exists in this sort of eternal present.

Lauren: I hadn’t thought about the prominence of the timestamp being such a driving feature. But you’re totally right. I think that I’ll definitely get into a TV show from ten years ago and I’ll go and re-blog a bunch of gif sets from ten years ago because that’s when the fandom was most active. And I think that’s what Tumblr is for, right, is keeping those communities alive perpetually.

Gretchen: Tumblr is also unique as far as internet platforms go because in the early days of the internet this was a very normal thing to do – to try and meet people online based around a common interest. But this is much less common in the present day internet and really since the internet became mainstream. And sort of when only a few people were online you had to figure out a way to try to get to know people online. Because your friends and your neighbors and your family aren’t going to be online so you have to figure out how you’re going to meet people. And that was often very interest based, like Use Net is all based on interest groups.

Lauren: Right.

Gretchen: But then when the internet became more mainstream you have things like Facebook which are all based on your contacts that you know IRL. Maybe you get to know people through a Facebook group or something but by and large Facebook is designed to connect you with people you already know. That’s this very sort of mainstream style of internet behavior. Twitter has sort of got this combination of things where in some cases people you already know but in many cases it’s people who are like part of maybe a professional community or an interest type of community – but in a very loose sense. Right? So, it will be people who are romance authors are a big group on Twitter or people in tech in various ways are a big group on Twitter. Or like Linguist Twitter was a corner of Twitter that’s somewhat decimated now, which had overlap with other academic areas and this type of thing.

So, you sort of had a nebulous interest group but it was hard to find them because people weren’t necessarily using a tag to organize that. You just had to sort of start with some people and then go through their follower list and following list. Tumblr also doesn’t surface who you follow or who follows you automatically. You can do it optionally. I’ve always turned it off. And you can’t see how many followers someone has. And so you can’t follow a social graph to find people to follow. You have to look at tags or who people are re-blogging. Those are sort of your only options to find other people on Tumblr.

Lauren: Yeah. I mean, in terms of how that drives language and shifts and how people are speaking online, I think in my head I’m imagining if I am on Facebook and I’m mostly interacting with the people from my real life or I’m on Twitter and I’m mostly interacting with podcasters or writers, then I am mostly engaging with people who are quite similar to me whereas on Tumblr I’m engaging with all kinds of people. And does that drive language faster or more differently if you are sort of engaging with a bunch of different types of people versus the people sort of more insularly in your circle?

Gretchen: I am so delighted you asked. There have been studies on this! (laughs)

Lauren: Ooh!

Gretchen: A lot of the work on this has happened through Twitter because Twitter has an API that’s really good for downloading this type of data. There have been a few masters thesises about Tumblr linguistics which are very cool. And their authors are people who just use Tumblr and collect some data. But if you want to study Tumblr you have to do a sort of participant ethnography. You can’t just download a fire hose of a whole bunch of posts because that capacity doesn’t exist on a technical level. You could use the API to download one person’s Tumblr blog but what would be the point of that?

Lauren: Right.

(laughter)

Gretchen: Whereas on Twitter, back before they killed this, but you could hook up to the whole fire hose and you could make a whole social network graph of who is following who and so you could get a sense of approximately who was seeing what. So, a lot of the internet language research has been done on Twitter not because everyone is on Twitter because very much everyone is not. But because it’s this very convenient sample that has this very convenient way of analyzing it.

So, this particular study that I’m thinking of finds that the way we adopt new words is this balance between strong ties and weak ties. Social theory – strong ties are people where you have a lot of acquaintances in common, friends and acquaintances in common. You know a lot of people in common very densely imbedded in your social network. And in many cases people spend more time with their strong ties because that’s how they get introduced to your other friends, right? So, a lot of people’s partner is a strong tie, or their best friend is a strong tie, because that person also knows a bunch of your friends because you probably introduce them to each other or you met as part of a friend group. And so you have all these friends in common.

And then your weak ties are people that you don’t have any or very many friends in common with. And so you’re maybe likely to see them less often but not necessarily. So, let’s say a barista at your favorite coffee shop who maybe you go there twice a week and you see them regularly, more often than some of your friends maybe, but you don’t actually have any friends in common with that barista.

So, weak ties are a really important source of new information to a social network. Studies have shown that you are more likely to get a job through a weak tie.

Lauren: Interesting!

Gretchen: Because your friends already know everything you know. Basically. Whereas your weak ties, especially a weak tie who is sometimes a friend of a friend – your friends may not have a job that they could give you but they might know someone who has a job they could give you or like your acquaintance may know someone. And you have a much larger circle of acquaintances than you do close friends just because that’s how time works. (laughs)

So, there’s a very interesting study that I cited because internet, I can’t remember the author but if anyone wants to go look up the citation you can do that, that did a sort of network model analysis of what if you had a social network that was all strong ties? So, this is your sort of classic sitcom style social network where everybody is friends with everybody else. Or you have a really tiny town and everybody in the town knows everybody. There’s 100 people on this island and they all have known each other for their entire lives.

And in this situation, the language situation rapidly becomes very stable. There isn’t a lot of change in the language situation because where is that change coming from? We’ve all been talking to each other our entire lives. Someone would have to invent a new form spontaneously which is less likely than someone just picking something up from somewhere else and transmitting it.

Conversely, a network that’s all weak ties ... so you can think of something like an airport where nobody really knows each other. You’re just chatting with the person next to you in line and you never really become friends after that. Nothing ever becomes predominant in a community because there’s no reinforcement mechanism for anything. Everyone is just talking differently from each other but there’s no way for really anything to really spread.

What they’ve found is that most social networks have a mix of strong and weak ties. And a weak tie is more likely to introduce a new linguistic form you haven’t encountered yet. Because they have a different social network to you. Largely. But you’re more likely to start using and picking up a form if someone who is one of your strong ties uses it.

Cher: Have you noticed any difference in kind of communication, like the linguistic use or slang use or whatever it might be, on Tumblr within different communities that you might be a part of on Tumblr?

Gretchen: One of the things that I think about from this is that like Facebook has sort of more strong ties than weak ties. And I feel like it is less linguistically innovative than Twitter is, or than Twitter used to be back in its heyday. Because Twitter had a lot more sources of new information, people you didn’t already know IRL. And so there were way more sources of new stuff.

For Tumblr, I’m trying to think about ... I feel like there’s less of an ability to get a gestalt of the entire site because your own personal network experience is so specific. Sometimes I see ... there was a past that went around a little while ago that was this, “I cannot stand these parodies of modern major [inaudible 00:26:42] original.” And this post was getting like 10K notes in its first 24 hours. Three different people who are on my dash who I’m pretty sure didn’t know each other had all re-blogged it separately from different people. And I then went and checked the timestamp and I was like, oh, this post is 24 hours old and it’s just spreading everywhere.

I think people don’t have necessarily the same hesitation around, “I’m going to re-share this even though it’s already been in my feed,” because then the person that I re-blogged it from will just treat that as a compliment and not treat it as, “well, that’s kind of boring.” On Twitter I tend to not re-tweet a tweet if it’s too popular because then I’m like, “Yeah, that’s boring, that’s yesterday’s news.” That’s been done, everyone has seen this already.

Whereas on Tumblr a post has 100K notes and I’m like, yeah, sure I’m still re-blogging it, this was quality.

Cher: And you can re-blog as many things, I mean, up to our post limit, as you want and still your followers would be excited to have you re-blogging or re-posting 250 things in a day. Versus being like, “Oh my gosh, that’s a lot.”

Gretchen: Yeah. So, there’s a couple interesting mechanisms around re-blogging. It’s very common to re-blog without commentary or re-blog with just a few bits in the tags on Tumblr. And then if your tags are witty enough or incisive enough someone else might promote them and you passed peer review.

Cher: Yes.

Lauren: Yep!

Gretchen: And so this is a mechanism of saying which things ... fewer posts get circulated more on Tumblr. They get circulated more and for longer. So, this is another side of the Tumblr has a more cohesive culture because you’re more likely to have seen the same post as other people because they circulate so much. And I remember when I first joined Twitter it was very rare to see a tweet that had more than 100 re-tweets. Now they’ve been putting their thumb on the algorithm more, you do see these very popular tweets. But at the time it was already very common to see Tumblr posts with five digits or six digits of notes. That’s always been a part of Tumblr culture I think.

Cher: Why do you think the Tumblr community gravitates towards captioning or talking in the tags versus in the caption section? It’s one of my favorite things about the platform and the way users engage but it’s always interested me how that sort of came about.

Gretchen: The commentary that I’ve seen and I sort of agree with this is that because ... Tumblr’s re-blog culture preserves the entire chain. So, if you say something in the tags then if somebody wants to re-blog the post from you they can just say their own things in the tags and they don’t have to preserve what you’ve said. If you say something in the comment field then if someone wants to re-blog the post from you they’ve got to preserve your comments. And sometimes I’ve seen a post that has three really interesting comments and then someone said something kind of boring and I will go back up that chain and re-blog the version without their boring addition, even if their boring addition was my friend.

Lauren: Same!

Cher: Yep.

Gretchen: So, if you’re worried that someone is going to be like, oh, I’ll have to go back up the re-blog chain and re-blog this post without your boring addition, you’re like, I’m just going to put this in the tags, that’s polite. That’s sort of discreet. And tags are also a way of talking primarily to your followers because if someone re-blogs that post from you they’re not going to see it. Their followers aren’t going to see it. So, it’s a way of having a sort of private, or not quite private, but like a more intimate level of conversation at the same time as you’re participating in this sort of almost site-wide culture of these bigger posts that have lots of stuff on them – you can sort of do that in the replies.

I also think that an underrated technological affordance of these tags is that Tumblr tags support spaces. Because Tumblr has a tags field and if you tag a post on Twitter or Instagram you have to write your hash tags without spaces. I’m saying hash tags on this platform but on Tumblr they’re tags. You have to write them without spaces. So, this puts a natural limit on how many tags and how long of tags you can write because no one wants to read this seven words all smooshed together with no spaces. That’s kind of obnoxious. Whereas with Tumblr tags you’ve got spaces in it so you can just read it like a normal thing. And also that tags on re-blogs aren’t searchable except for like if you’re indexing a post on your own blog. So, you can tag something that has your queue tag and then you can find your own queue tag. But otherwise they don’t become searchable and so the tags ... they’re sort of useless on a practical level which means you can write commentary in them because they’re not actually trying to do something practical.

And it’s kind of obnoxious SEO behavior to put too many tags in your post on Twitter or Instagram where they are readily searchable. Because you can’t actually search tags on Tumblr, at least not in a re-blog very well, it’s like, well yeah, this is a space for commentary instead. There’s also a fannish culture because Tumblr is very fannish of using tags for commentary on archive of our own on AO3.

Lauren: That’s such a good point!

Gretchen: AO3 tags have this mixture of commentary tag and functional tag that Tumblr tags also have. And so I would wager that most people on Tumblr know what archive of our own is. Whereas on sites like Twitter or Instagram some people do, depending on your subculture, but it’s less of a direct influence probably.

Lauren: Do you think that’s something that AO3 took from Tumblr, because a lot of those users overlap, that that’s why that happened on AO3?

Gretchen: I think a lot of them overlap but I think the directionality may be in the other direction.

Lauren: Interesting!

Gretchen: Because ... so, archive of our own was founded in I wanna say 2005.

Lauren: Yeah, yeah, I think you’re right. It definitely was sort of as fanfic.net was ... they sort of crossed paths a little bit.

Gretchen: Yeah, ‘cause an analogy that I really like making is that AO3 is actually very similar in size to the English Wikipedia ... in terms of like how long its existed and how many bytes of words are on both. They are very similar in size.

Lauren: That’s nuts! (laughs)

Gretchen: And in terms of this sort of skewed long tail ratio of how many people write on them versus how many people read on them, I think also quite similar.

Lauren: Yeah! Right, a small percentage of people are contributing of the people who are reading. Yeah.

Gretchen: I actually wrote an article for Wired a number of years ago when AO3 was winning the Hugo about how we should be ... because a lot of tech ink has been spilled about here’s how great Wikipedia is and here’s what we all could be learning about it. And not nearly as much has been spilled about here’s how great AO3 is and here’s what we could be learning about it. Even though they have very similar sorts of pedigrees. And I wrote a piece for wired that was like, “Here’s why AO3 is so neat,” and interviewed a couple of the tag wranglers to talk about AO3’s tagging system and how it works in the backend with a lot of volunteer labor to make it useable for users.

Yeah, I just think that AO3’s tagging system and it had this sort of tag wrangling open field you can do your commentary tags and you can also do your sorting tags in the same field. This was influenced by fannish practice on earlier social platforms. I wasn’t really on Live Journal but a lot of people were on Live Journal. If somebody knows more about Live Journal’s tagging practice I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an influence there. Also on other fan fic sites for sure.

Lauren: Yeah. The tagging on AO3 is so interesting too because you’ve got your functional tags like Tumblr has, too, where you’re putting it to the people find it in a particular search or to categorize your own profile or whatever. And then there’s the commentary tags and then AO3 has this weird in-between space that I don’t see on Tumblr as much which is fandom specific tags that sort of begin as commentary and then become actual sortable tags. Like “such and such character is an idiot,” or whatever. These things that sort of become fanon and therefore sort of get adopted sort of by the tag wranglers.

Gretchen: Like “dead dove do not eat” kind of thing.

Lauren: Right. Exactly! Yeah. Which is something I first encountered on Tumblr in the way it was used. Which is interesting ...

Gretchen: I think there’s some extent to which people do this on their personal Tumblrs. I’m thinking of all these sort of fun creative queue tags which may have started out as like, “Oh, I’m just doing this sort of joke,” and then sometimes they carry on. My tag for internet language on All Things Linguistic is still “Language on the interwebs,” because I tagged a post that in 2012 and then I was like, I guess this is what I’m using for this tag now. I have to go back and check because it’s like did I spell interwebs with an “s” or a zed? I have to check every time. Because I was just joking! But I’m still doing this!?

(laughter)

Lauren: That’s awesome.

Gretchen: There’s over 100 posts in that tag because there’s so many things.

Lauren: Is it an “s” or a “z?”

Gretchen: Look, I don’t know. I’d have to check! I think it’s an “s.” But I have actually tagged several ... some posts I’ve tagged with both because I couldn’t remember. So, if you click on one and you’re like, “there’s not any posts in here,” just click on the other one and see if you’ll get more.

Lauren: I totally have ... my playlist tag I always just tag “playlist” and “playlists,” because I can never remember which one it is that I used.

Cher: Sometimes I’ll be typing what I think is an original sentence as a tag and it will auto complete for me as ... someone has also typed out this similarly chaotic or unhinged sentence at some point.

Lauren: The great Tumblr hive mind.

Gretchen: I’ve always wanted to do a study of Tumblr tags. Cher, if there’s way you can hook us up with this data maybe this is a possibility, because it’s so hard to do data on anything in Tumblr. But also maybe Tumblr users would find this creepy so maybe we should just never do this. There was a meme that was going around ... I haven’t seen it in the last five years or so but there was this style of post that was going around for a while that would list five words and it would be “type these words into your tag field and fill in your tag that auto completes from them.”

Lauren: Yes!

Gretchen: So, it would be a list of colors or something ... when you tag something green what was that tag?

Lauren: Yes, I love those posts because it always brings up stuff that you completely forgot about, about your own blog. You know?

Gretchen: And I always thought that if there was a way of scraping all the tags from a post, a post like that would be a really interesting one to do this weird cross section of tags on Tumblr. It would be a biased sample but it would be biased in a very different way compared to using the tags that are searchable tags.

Cher: And we can absolutely hook you up with that data, Gretchen. So, just let me know what info you want, what data you want, and we can [crosstalk 00:37:38].

Gretchen: Where were you when I was writing!? Because [crosstalk 00:37:43]

Lauren: You need to make another book!

Cher: Yeah, I’m here for the sequel, Gretchen. I’ve got you. [crosstalk 00:37:53]

Gretchen: I was joking for a while that my next book would be called “Despite Internet,” which is how I wrote a book despite all the distractions online.

Cher: Oh my gosh. YES.

Lauren: I love that. What a great idea!

Gretchen: If I ever write a memoir ... (laughs)

Lauren: Yes, absolutely. I know that we are coming to the end of our time here. So, as a final fun question – do you have a favorite Tumblr linguistic quirk or meme or something that just has brought you a lot of joy on Tumblr as a linguist?

Gretchen: Oh man, how do I choose? They’re all my children! (laughs)

Cher: You can pick a few.

Lauren: Yes. Top three.

Gretchen: I’ve got this whole book that I wrote! (laughs) So, I’m going to pick a classic. I relaly like the style of what I have called stylized verbal incoherence mirroring emotional incoherence.

Lauren: Ooh!

Cher: Beatifully put.

Gretchen: (laughs)

Cher: Put very coherently.

Gretchen: And the point is that it’s stylized and so you are actually doing it on purpose, it’s not just sort of random key smash type things. But the Tumblr minimalist style, which as far as I can tell was initially most popular on Tumblr of lowercasing things, not using a lot of punctuation, using maybe line breaks only or periods as a way of breaking things up but not using a whole bunch of other punctuation. There’s this classic Tumblr post that’s like, “Tumblr, language is so smooth, it’s like a jungle river, with no periods, nothing stops here.” I’m not memorizing it that well and I haven’t seen it go around my dash that much in recent years. But there was a while when I was seeing it every week.

Lauren: I know exactly what post you’re talking about.

Cher: Yeah.

Gretchen: We can dig this up and re-blog it, right?

Lauren: For sure.

Gretchen: What I loved about it was the meta commentary on the reflection about a style that already existed that other people were doing that was also doing this self referentially and that people were spreading it. One of the reasons why Tumblr becomes this source of linguistic innovation is that Tumblr users love commenting about their own linguistic innovation. And then spreading those posts that comment on it. So, you see all these posts that will be like, “Oh yeah, I’m doing this.” And this swift like a jungle river post got posted, re-blogged so many times. And so even if you weren’t seeing that style initially, you would see the post that was commenting about it and go maybe this is something that I might want to do. This is something that other people seem to recognize and I think that the re-blog culture and the number of notes gives these observations a sense of sort of authenticity or gravitas or just this sense that they’ve passed peer review.

Other Tumblr users also think that this is the case because they’ve re-posted it. Because they re-blogged it. And if someone was making an observation about Tumblr culture or Tumblr language that wasn’t especially trenchant it just sort of sinks and vanishes without a trace. It’s these ones that get tens and hundreds of thousands of notes where people are like, yeah, I agree with this, I cosign this, I believe this. And I think that’s why stuff spreads because Tumblr users like that meta commentary and the ones that feel real keep getting passed around.

Lauren: Absolutely. I think that’s a perfect bow to put on the whole conversation. Gretchen, thank you so much for coming to talk to us about this. If people want to follow you online and learn more about this stuff – where can they find you?

Gretchen: Thank you so much for having me. I am at GretchenMcCulloch.com – my podcast is Lingthusiasm. It’s also @lingthusiasm on Tumblr. My Tumblr is @allthingslinguistic and my book about internet language is called “Because Internet.”

[gentle music]

Cher: What has you in your feels this week, Lauren?

Lauren: So, I have two quick in my feels things. The first is My Lady Jane on Amazon Prime, which is a new TV show. And without saying too much about it, because I sort of went in not really knowing anything and was really delighted, it just reminds me of the peak CW shows from the late 2000s when it was still the WB into sort of the mid 20-teens. Just everything about it feels like a CW show from 2013 and I really have been missing that on my television. So, that’s been bringing me lots of joy.

And then my daily podcast that I’ve been doing for the past year, Breaker Whiskey, is coming to a close tomorrow as of this recording, by the time this episode comes out it will have been ... the first year will have been over for a week. There’s been some really fun posts on Tumblr about it. About people getting excited for the finale. About people reacting to teh things that are happening. And it’s a very small group of people but it’s just always amazing when there is any Tumblr fandom at all for anything I make. And so that has been making me very, very happy this last week.

What about you, Cher? What’s got you in your feels?

Cher: I am having a lot of emotions, Lauren, about House of the Dragon. Do you watch?

Lauren: I don’t.

Cher: In my opinion, everyone especially the dragons should live forever. And that’s just what I’m going to say about it.

Lauren: Okay. Got you. [inaudible 00:43:12]

Cher: That is very much not the topic of the show. (laughs) The show is about how the dragons went extinct and they’re starting to show us and as it turns out I don’t want to know, Lauren!

Lauren: Oh no!

Cher: The dragons are all baby girls. They’re all poor little meow-meows. And they should be protected at all costs.

Lauren: And I’m Lauren Shippen, and you can find me at TheLaurenShippen.Tumblr.com.

Cher: And I’m Cher McAnelly and you can find me at OverChers.Tumblr.com.

Cher: This has been Dashboard Diaries. And ...

[outtro music]

Lauren: May your anons always be loving.

Cher: Your dash always refreshed.

Lauren: Your gifs always be loading.

Cher: And your ships always canon.

Lauren: May the fics you’re reading always be finished.

Cher: And the answers you seek always in the re-blogs.

Lauren: Thanks for scrolling with us!

Every Tumblr user knows that we Tumblrinas use language a little differently. We're not like other social media users. We're weird. We're weirdos. And this month, we have actual linguist Gretchen McCulloch (@allthingslinguistic) on to talk about it!! Plus: House of the Dragon dragon-related feelings and throwing a ball in the air as you lay on your bed like a 90s teen character.

Credits and transcript in our reblog. You can find transcripts for this, and every other episode, here.

Find the posts discussed in this episode in this tag!

#DD 40 #transcript

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hugespace · 4 years ago

Note

Therapy helps rhett realize that all of those "I'm dead" UFC moves were actually just a way to fulfill his need for physical intimacy at a time in his life where he didn't feel it was acceptable to ask for it, especially from another man. Now that they're both adults and completely different people than they were in college, rhett decides it's time to explain it all to link and let him know that he actually misses that physical contact with him.

It took me a really long while, but I finally finished this one! I really loved that prompt, so thank you so much for giving it to me, lovely Anon. I was initially going to write it as a platonic/romantic friendship kinda story, but it seems I'm determined to write a hundred different first kiss + feelings realisation scenarios, I simply enjoy those way too much.

*** 2,5K ***

Let me hold you

He’s done it again.

Not so long ago, Rhett promised himself not to bring it up in front of cameras or a microphone unless he talks it out with Link, privately.

Especially not as a joke.

And he’s failed already, he scolds himself short after the Ear Biscuits episode is recorded and they’re both out of the room, heading back towards their office.

He thinks he could have just omitted it, shouldn’t have mentioned anything. It simply wasn’t necessary to mull over it again, even with the topic of the episode revolving around their college experience. It wasn’t a big deal, he said it himself, countless times. Every time they talked about it on the show.

So, every time.

There’s never been a conversation in private about that incident or anything that preluded it, never in the absence of people to entertain, never not around at least one recording device. Because why would there be? It wasn’t a big deal. A funny story, s’all.

He’s also never been able to just let things go, though, and thanks to that inability, the lore of wrestling and the “I’m dead” move had to live on. It was an innocent story, a funny albeit embarrassing one – their unofficial brand after all, an easy misunderstanding and a fun little anecdote, not his carefully curated version of what happened, nor a watered-down one, not just a part of the entire story devoid of any feelings associated with it, not a big deal-! And most of all, not… true. Not true.

Rhett isn’t sure if Link has been consciously going along with that wordlessly agreed upon version of what their UFC phase looked like, repressing the truth behind it, or… simply never realised what it meant for Rhett and genuinely thought of it as a humorous yet insignificant part of their friendship in the past.

Most likely the third option, he has to assume. After all, why would Link attach any meaning to it? It’s not like anything actually ever happened, not outside of Rhett’s mind at least. Frankly, he himself went decades without understanding his own motivations, more than once confused by why the memories of wrestling with his friend and laying on top of him felt both shameful and deeply comforting. Why even long after they grew up, stopped being kids, and as a result retired all their UFC moves, the only way he could describe what he felt thinking about that time was longing.

Until therapy happened.

Just like with many different things in his life:

There was something in the darkness, and then therapy shone a light on it.

It was like there were countless situations he navigated solely on instinct, without paying much thought to the reasons behind why he acted a certain way, and once therapy equipped him with the ability to do so, he unearthed an entire deep layer of feelings and emotions that were always there. Just hidden, even from himself.

The wrestling being one of those things.

So, he thinks Link doesn’t know.

And he’s finally determined to change that.

Why now, when he’s had so many chances to talk to Link over the years ever since he started being more in touch with himself? He doesn’t really have an answer; it’s just that after talking about it with such levity again, after repeatedly making a joke out of it, it feels like he might explode if he doesn’t say anything, doesn’t confess to Link what it was really like. And most of all, it feels like the yearning has become stronger lately, and the conversation yet again playing it all off as them being young and silly only ignited it, made the flame inside of Rhett burn brighter, threatening to make his heart combust.

“I need to talk to you about something that’s been on my mind.” Rhett says easily once they’re in the office. It’s not an unsure statement or a nervous plea with words tumbling out of his mouth before he can lose his cool and change his mind. It would have been all that and more a couple of years ago, sure.

But he’s a different man now. He’s not afraid to tell the person who’s been with him for almost the entirety of his life what he feels.

Link, however. He does look unsure, a bit alarmed even, when he looks at Rhett and responds.

“Sure-? What is it? Do you wanna talk now?”

It’s just like him to worry. Run a hundred different scenarios in his head, most of them negative, trying to prepare himself for every possible outcome of a serious conversation before it even began. It’s an anxious survival instinct that makes Link resilient to even the worst that life has to offer and able to face it all head on. But right now, it’s nothing scary. Rhett doesn’t want his friend to be worried, so he quickly says as much.

“Don’t worry, s’not bad. Just something we talked about on the podcast today.” The blonde sits down on the couch and pats the cushion next to him, hoping he appears to be as calm as he truly feels inside and that it might dissolve some of Link’s concern, still written all over his face.

The other man takes his place on the sofa and looks at him expectingly.

“Right. So-“ Rhett’s calmness doesn’t completely evaporate once Link gives him his full attention, but it’s suddenly laced with some nerves. “About the wrestling. You know, in college. And before that. And- Especially about my ‘I’m dead’ move. I’ve been thinking about it, and-“

“Rhett, I swear, if you made me sit down for a talk only to tell me you’d like to make it a part of our conflict resolution again, then ha-ha. Very funny. I’d like to go get myself some coffee now.” Link cuts him off with an unamused look in his eyes and almost makes a move to stand up.

Rhett is quicker though and grabs the brunette’s arm before he can really move, effectively making him stay in place.

“What? No. That’s not what I’m saying. Like, at all. I-“ He realises he’s still holding onto Link’s arm and instinctively wants to retract his hand, but that same feeling that led him to initiating this conversation in the first place makes him reconsider. “I’ve been thinking about what it all meant and why I did that, especially when we fought or you were angry with me, and-“

“Because we were young.” Link quickly answers what wasn’t even a question. “We had too much energy and neither of us really wanted to hurt the other by punching him or- or fighting in earnest. What else would it mean.”

“Link can you let me talk? I’m trying to say something important.” Rhett squeezes Link’s forearm. “So, as I was saying. I mostly did it when you were angry or I was feeling unsure, and I didn’t realise it back then, but- But I know now, that I just… needed reassurance. You know, physical contact.” He explains, looking straight into Link’s eyes and trying to interpret his reaction before it comes.

When nothing happens, and the brunette just stares back at him with a furrowed brow, he feels compelled to continue and elaborate.

“Like when people… hug after an argument-?” His brain almost challenges him to make a different comparison, presenting a parallel between laying half-naked on top of your best friend and another activity people often partake in to make up after a fight. But that’s not- It’s not what he’s trying to say. It’s not like that.

The face in front of him frowns in confusion, blue eyes squinting and mouth opening and closing again, only letting out a puff of air and no sound at first.

When Link finally responds, his voice is unsure, like he suspects that he’s not understanding something right. “Are you trying to tell me you wanted to hug me when we bickered, so you pushed me to the floor and laid on me till I was even angrier, instead…?”

That’s not fully what Rhett meant, but it’s close enough, so he nods.

“What the crap, Rhett-? You're not making any sense.”

“Okay, listen…” He decides to go for a different approach. “We still don’t hug after arguments. We never hug hello. I think I could count on my fingers how many times we’ve actually hugged each other as adults, outside of the show!”

“Yeah! That’s just not what we do! We’ve never done those things, it’s just not a part of our relationship- I still don’t know what you wanna tell me here Rhett.” Link throws his hands in the air in a gesture of resignation.

“I want it to be a thing we do, okay?! I always did, but I was afraid to ask for it so I just took what you could give me without talking about it. Can’t have actual intimacy? Make up a UFC thing so I can be close to you! Can’t hold you when I’ve made you mad? Better lay on top of you till you give up and have no choice but stop!” Rhett pauses to finally take a breath.

“That time that guy saw us- I’m sure you remember I stormed off right after-? I panicked, it was like him seeing us and thinking there was something else happening almost made feel like it was something else, and since I started it, it also felt like I wanted it to be something else. I got so angry at myself for even trying and I never did it again. I’m sure you remember that, too!” Words flow out of Rhett in a hurried and increasingly loud cascade, while Link’s eyes grow bigger and comprehension dawns on his face.

“I know how stupid it sounds. But you know how I was. We were well into our thirties when I still refused to get close to you. And it’s not that I didn’t want to, it was the opposite – I wanted it a lot, man.”

„But I thought...?” Link seems to be turning a thought over in his head. “I thought you just never liked it. That the wrestling thing was about you… asserting dominance. That’s what it felt like at least. Like you trying to act like an older brother or somethin’.”

“No- It was me wanting to be close to you and not knowing how to ask for it. My very convoluted way of expressing love, you could call it. And I’m sorry it took me-“

“What changed-? I mean, what made you wanna talk about it?” There’s urgency in Link’s voice when he cuts Rhett off.

“I… I realised I miss it. I told you, we still don’t really hug or get intimate, however that sounds, and I’m not gonna just topple you and pin you to the ground again. We’re too old for that. For once, I don’t think either my back or your shoulders would survive if we started wrestling every time I wanted to be affectionate. But also- We’re over forty, Link. What does it say about me if I can’t just ask a person I love and have loved for almost four decades to hold me when I need it and would resort to, well, aggression-? That’s not how it should work.”

Link ponders Rhett’s words for a few beats before opening his mouth again, only to let three breathy words escape. “You love me-?”

It seems like the wrong thing to focus on, Rhett just opened up to say he not only craves physical intimacy now, but also struggled with that same need when they were younger so badly, he had to invent an entire intricate system allowing him to be closer, and Link questions the one thing he knows already. Because of course he knows, Rhett’s said as much dozens of times, of course he loves him. But it appears he has to say it anyway, judging from the weird look in Link’s eyes.

“I do, of course I lo-“ The blonde begins, yet he doesn’t get a chance to finish and ask whether Link heard the other part of his confession at all, because at once, his mouth isn’t free to keep talking and there’s no air left in his lungs as the man who was just sitting right next to him plunges forward and collides with him, lips first.

Oh. Rhett manages to form one more coherent thought despite being startled and entirely taken aback. Link misunderstood. That’s why he got hung up on the love confession. That’s not what Rhett meant, that’s not what he was trying to say, it’s not like that-

He feels like he should clear things up as quickly as possible. Logically, he should be panicking, racking his brain for a way to straighten things up, to explain to Link that it wasn’t what he was trying to say without making things worse, without ruining everything and making his best friend feel miserable and embarrassed, until…

Until Rhett realises his body went rogue and started responding without his conscious decision, his lips are moving against the other man’s, one of his hands is cupping Link’s face, while the other strayed away and is caressing his back. And it feels like his heart is trying to break out of the ribcage with how hard it’s pounding in his chest, along with his stomach doing wild summersaults. And he’s not panicking, not at all. And it’s not a misunderstanding, how could it, when he loves Link with his entire soul, with his whole being- And exactly like that, it hits him. Starting this conversation, he thought he already understood everything, but he didn’t– there was still that last puzzle piece missing.

They come up for air, panting from the intensity of that first kiss, foreheads flush with each other. Rhett finishes the sentence he began before Link’s move changed everything. “Of course I love you.” He means it now, he means it exactly like Link took it and can’t comprehend how he didn’t think of it before, but it’s perfectly obvious now.

So he hugs Link. He encircles the man’s body with his long arms, squeezes, and holds him, feels his friend snuggle into him, nuzzle his face into the crook of his neck and breathe deeply, holding Rhett's larger body in return.

All he needed was ask for the closeness.

He asked, and he got it.

He got all he wanted and so much more.

So, so much.

#rhink fic #anonymous prompt #my writing

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lulu-zodiac · 4 years ago

Text

Hidden in Plain Sight

Pairing: Dean Winchester/Jeremy Bradshaw

Tags: Early seasons Dean, pre-podcast Professor Bradshaw, denial, unresolved sexual tension, bickering, smut, gratuitous owl references, case fic

Summary: It's the fall of 2006, and a string of grisly deaths linked to local lore brings Sam and Dean to the village of Bridgewater. There, Dean finds himself working closely with the frustrating and unexpectedly compelling Professor Bradshaw.

---

Dean feels about as comfortable in old colleges as he does in churches. There’s the same sense of exclusivity, that same reverence of things Dean has spent his life stuck on wrong side of. This campus even feels a little like a church, with its old architecture and sprawling ruby ivy and slit windows like narrowed eyes. His footfalls echo heavily along the cold stone corridor, making him feel uncomfortably aware of his own existence.

The door he’s looking for is old and made of oak, nestled in an alcove near the staircase, with a small plaque on it that reads Professor J Bradshaw.

Dean pauses for a moment, then knocks abruptly, suddenly noticing his knuckles are still smudged with earth. From within, a muffled voice instructs him to enter, and he does so, wiping his hand surreptitiously against the side of his leather jacket.

The first thing that hits him is the sheer volume of books in the room; they clutter every available surface, piled high in front of the big bay window like a strange line of defense. There are stacks of loose papers everywhere too, haphazard but clearly organized, some held in place by empty coffee mugs or odd-looking artefacts. The air is bright and warm, like this room catches the sun when it’s slow and mellow in the afternoons.

The second thing that hits him is the man sitting at the desk.

He doesn’t look up at Dean’s entrance, continuing to scribble away in a leather-bound notebook with intent dexterity, seemingly utterly lost in his own thoughts. He’s not what Dean expected; surprisingly young, maybe approaching forty, with a sharp jaw and tousled hair that just brushes his broad shoulders. When Dean clears his throat awkwardly, the man finally looks up with striking blue eyes that immediately pin Dean in place.

“Yes?” his voice is inquiring and several octaves deeper than Dean would have imagined, low and gravelly. He sets down his pen, looking at Dean with piercing focus.

“Uh – hey. Professor Bradshaw?” Dean feels distinctly self-conscious.

“Who wants to know?” the man closes his notebook with a snap and stands with surprisingly fluid ease, eyes still intent on Dean as though he’s cataloguing him.

He’s wearing a faded navy-blue sweater with the sleeves rolled up, slightly crumpled shirt tails poking out at the hem, just visible.

Drawing on years of sizing people up, Dean guesses that the guy probably has no one to go home to at night. If he goes home much at all, that is; the office has a distinctly lived-in look. It’s strangely reminiscent of the makeshift home feel of the impala’s interior.

“Um – Dean. Dean Collins,” Dean answers hastily, suddenly realizing he’s spent a little too long looking. “I’m uh – a student in one of your classes,” he lies the best way he knows how: with a charming smile. “I was wondering if you’ve got a moment? I was hoping to ask you a couple of questions about your work.”

“Come in, please,” Professor Bradshaw sits back down behind his desk, and gestures for Dean to close the door. “Take a seat.”

“Thanks,” Dean shuts the door and awkwardly removes three hardback books and a small, slightly drooping fern from the only available seat in front of Professor Bradshaw’s desk.

“Sorry – let me –” Professor Bradshaw leans over the desk to relieve Dean of the books and the plant. Close up, Dean can see faint lines softening the corners of his vivid eyes, and when he breathes in, he catches a hint of peppermint and the musk of warm skin, strangely compelling. Their hands brush for a moment as Professor Bradshaw takes the items, and Dean flinches, jerking away and planting himself firmly on the chair.

“So – Dean, yes?” Professor Bradshaw settles back into his seat. He’s still looking intently at Dean, gaze startlingly blue.

Wordlessly, Dean nods. He doesn’t know why he can feel the heat creeping up his cheeks.

“You’re not in any of my classes, Dean,” Professor Bradshaw says, with a slight edge to his voice. He reaches for a half-drunk mug of tea on his desk, expression skeptical.

Dean feels his stomach drop. “Uh, yeah – I’m new, just transferred a couple weeks back,” he bluffs quickly, but it sounds weak even to his own ears. He feels strangely flustered, visible.

“No, I don’t think so,” Professor Bradshaw says, flatly. “I believe I would have noticed,” he adds, wryly, with a kind of impatient warmth in his expression that makes Dean’s cheeks flare with heat all over again. Professor Bradshaw merely swallows a mouthful of tea and sets the mug back down, still looking at Dean. “So. Who are you?”

“Alright,” Dean puts his hands up in mock-surrender, smiling wide even though he feels stupidly on edge, knocked off course. “You got me. I’m – uh – a journalist. My boss has me writing a piece on local legends, and I was hoping to pick your brains. Heard you’re the expert on all that stuff around here, and thought I might be in with a better chance of talking to you as a student instead of some annoying reporter.”

“I see,” Professor Bradshaw leans back in his chair, contemplative. A shaft of sunlight filters through the bay window behind him, illuminating a hint of tawny in his dark, untidy hair. Dust motes hang everywhere like suspended snow. “Well, luckily for you, Dean, I find that my students can be just as annoying as reporters. And I still talk to them on a daily basis.”

Dean grins a little awkwardly, “Yeah?”

“Of course, I do get paid to do that,” Professor Bradshaw adds, dryly. “But perhaps I do them a disservice. Some of them are really quite inspiring.” He pauses, raising his mug to his lips. It has an owl on it, Dean notices absently. An overly fluffy one, with a slightly threatening glare. “I daresay I can spare five minutes. What is it that I can do for you, Dean?”

“Uh, so you study the supernatural, right?” Dean asks, clumsily. His hands are sweating where they’re shoved in the pockets of his jacket. “Ghosts and demons and all that shit?”

“I study the lore and mythology of supernatural beings, and why it’s important to humans to create such stories,” Professor Bradshaw clarifies, shortly.

“Right, got it,” Dean agrees, hastily. “But you’d know a bit about the Bridgewater coven?”

“I am familiar with the legends, yes,” Professor Bradshaw replies, reaching for his mug again. There’s an ink stain on the side of his index finger, smudged deep blue. Dean fleetingly wonders if it would rub off easily if he touched it, if it would leave a ghostly imprint on his own skin.

“Yeah – uh – so there’s been quite a lot of interest in the coven recently,” Dean blusters, annoyed with himself for how stupidly flustered he feels, “You know, since those bodies were found last week? At the burial site in Bridgewater Forest that’s associated with the legend? Yeah. Well, anyway, I was – hoping you might be able to tell me a little more about the legend of the coven.”

“I don’t see what the recent tragedies could possibly have to do with the legend,” Professor Bradshaw narrows his eyes skeptically.

“Right – yeah – nothing, I’m sure,” Dean lies hastily, “But the location of the crimes has definitely raised awareness about the existence of the legend, and that’s what we really want to provide for our readers.”

“Well, certainly, I can tell you the history,” Professor Bradshaw replies, briskly, “In fact, I teach an undergrad course on witchcraft in history and my lecture this Wednesday actually covers the legend of the coven. If you want a more detailed, nuanced version, you’re more than welcome to come along then – it’s at 11am in the Milton building. But I’m happy to give you the short version now, if that would be helpful?”

“Thanks – yeah, that’d be great,” Dean says, gratefully. “On a bit of a tight schedule today.”

“Well, the local legend about the Bridgewater coven has existed for almost two hundred years,” Professor Bradshaw starts, and immediately Dean can picture him talking in front of a lecture theatre full of kids. He’s a natural, something inherently captivating about the way he speaks. “In the 1800s, this village was an important site of religious pilgrimage. However, according to the legend, the village was also home to a small coven lead by a witch named Iris. Iris’s coven was said to have lived in secrecy in the forest on the outskirts of Bridgewater for years, and not to have troubled the village people. However, by 1816, the legend claims the coven had become very hostile, specifically towards the church. There were fears the coven had begun indoctrinating – or bewitching – members of the congregation.”

Professor Bradshaw pauses, swallowing another mouthful of tea. The muscles in his throat work, drawing Dean’s attention to the way his pale blue shirt isn’t buttoned up properly. He’s filled with the sudden, inexplicable urge to button it up correctly.

“More and more people started disappearing in connection with the coven,” Professor Bradshaw continues, setting his mug back down on the desk, and Dean jerks his gaze guiltily away from the line of his throat, clenching his hands into fists inside the pockets of his leather jacket. “The rapidly diminishing congregation lived in terror. The remaining members of the church all turned against each other. Then, at the height of local hysteria, Iris is said to have murdered Blanche, the minister’s daughter, in what is portrayed in the lore as some kind of statement of the coven’s power over the church.”

“Bet that didn’t go down too well,” Dean remarks, sardonically.

“Quite,” Professor Bradshaw catches Dean’s eye, an amused smile tugging at the corners of his mouth. “Anyway, according to the legend, the tragedy of Blanche’s death united the warring members of the congregation. They captured Iris and entombed her alive, using her own magic against her to keep her trapped. Iris’s death broke the spell on the members of the congregation who’d been indoctrinated against their will, and peace was restored to the village. The few remaining members of the original coven fled and were never seen again.”

“Wow,” Dean raises his eyebrows, “Very love-thy-neighbor.”

Professor Bradshaw snorts, “Yes. Religious leaders in the 1800s were renowned for sitting down and resolving their problems through compassionate discussion,” he remarks, dryly.

“Okay, but what about the other versions of the legend?” Dean asks, trying to remember the things Sam had told him to ask about, but drawing a total blank. His brain feels weirdly scrambled. It’s hard to remember what happened before walking into Professor Bradshaw’s office. “The other stories about the coven I’ve come across so far all seem pretty different.”

Professor Bradshaw frowns slightly. “It’s true, there are many conflicting accounts. Which is often the case with legends, being human constructions of the past,” he regards Dean slightly disapprovingly over the rim of his owl mug, a kind of skeptical stubbornness in the set of his mouth. “It’s not about knowing which ‘to believe’ – it’s about looking at why historically people have favored one version over the other and what that tells us about them.”

“Right, yeah, but aren’t legends often based on fact?” Dean pushes.

Professor Bradshaw pauses, contemplatively, “Yes. That’s certainly true in some cases.”

“Do you think it’s the case in this one?”

“Possibly,” Professor Bradshaw replies, haltingly. His expression is serious and he hesitates for a moment before elaborating; “In fact, I’m currently writing a paper about the historical figures who feature in the legend of the Bridgewater coven.”

“Yeah? Which ones?” Dean presses. He’s used to having to fake interest to get information out of people like Professor Bradshaw, but for once, he finds he’s genuinely interested. There’s something compelling about Professor Bradshaw’s evidently obsessive quest for obscure answers, something that resonates with all too much familiarity.

“Iris, predominantly,” Professor Bradshaw replies. “I’m very interested in the historical reasons women were condemned as witches. Often, it’s as simple as jilted male lovers using accusations of witchcraft as a means of revenge, or the women using herbal remedies that threatened contemporary male ideas of medicine and the body. Sometimes it’s to do with female homosexuality and society’s unacceptance of same sex relationships or women as sexual beings. Of course, it wasn’t uncommon for gay men to be condemned for witchcraft either. But statistically, more homosexual women died as a result of such accusations.”

“Uh – right –” Dean swallows, looking away. His hands are sweating again, and he wipes them surreptitiously on the insides of his pockets. Clearing his throat, he changes the subject, suddenly remembering the other thing Sam had told him to ask Professor Bradshaw about, “What about the runes?”

“Ah yes, the runes on Iris’s supposed tomb,” Professor Bradshaw’s gaze is suddenly inscrutable in a way that makes Dean’s heart thud uncomfortably in his chest. It sweeps over Dean, lingering and unnervingly blue for a moment, before he continues, “Very interesting. I’ve been studying them a great deal as part of my research. The true nature of them has always remained a mystery, and any attempts to discern their meaning haven’t fitted with the legend at all. I believe they may be key to understanding the history behind the creation of the legend. But,” he smiles, wryly, “It’s not an easy task. They’re unlike any runes I’ve come across anywhere else before.”

“Can I see?” Dean asks, partly out of interest, and partly for some way of distracting himself from the way his heart is still thumping uncomfortably fast.

“You’d have to visit the forest burial site to see them in person, but I do have a couple of sketches of the lines I’m working on at the moment,” Professor Bradshaw gets to his feet and crosses to the cabinet by the window, pulling the top drawer open.

The fall chestnut trees outside smolder amber behind his silhouette, midday sunshine pale gold and still where it filters through the window. Time seems strangely irrelevant. Dean watches as Professor Bradshaw flicks through a green binder, fingers quick and dexterous, skilled and uncalloused in a way Dean’s have never had the chance to be.

Dean swallows and looks away, ignoring the thud of his heart as he stares around at the rest of the room. He clocks a bunch of compendiums of mythology on the bookcase nearest him, and two other eccentric and slightly neglected looking plants. There’s a thick plaid rug on the couch in the corner, not quite concealing a plate of half-eaten toast. On the windowsill, there’s a little tin mug with a toothbrush in it that makes Dean wonder again just how often Professor Bradshaw goes home at all. He finds himself wondering whether Professor Bradshaw has always had nothing but an empty house to return to, or whether that’s a more recent development. He’s definitely old enough to be going through a divorce. The thought sits uncomfortably in Dean’s chest for reasons he doesn’t particularly want to identify.

“Here we are.” Professor Bradshaw’s gravelly voice, suddenly much closer, makes Dean jump. He glances around to find Professor Bradshaw standing beside him, holding out a sheet of paper. The smell of warm skin and peppermint catches Dean off guard, stronger this time, and still strangely compelling.

“Uh – thanks,” Dean says awkwardly, taking the proffered page. He feels Professor Bradshaw’s fingers brush against his fleetingly, warm and ink-stained.

Dean swallows, forcing himself to focus on the page in front of him even though his cheeks are hot with something he doesn’t want to think about. The sketches are good, a few strange vaguely Norse reminiscent symbols drawn hastily with accompanying, scrawled notes in the margins. There’s something about the runes that niggles at Dean’s brain, familiar and unfamiliar all at once, like something he’s known his whole life but can’t put his finger on.

“These are interesting,” Dean he frowns, tracing his finger along the two last symbols.

When he glances up, he finds Professor Bradshaw looking at him intently, blue eyes inscrutable. “Yes,” he says, leaning back against the desk and folding his arms across his chest. “Those are the ones which struck me too,” he’s speaking a little quieter, low voice distracting Dean from why the runes are so familiar. He hopes he can remember them, that Sam will be able to place what he can’t about them.

“So, uh, this tomb. The one with the runes on it – that’s definitely where that guy’s body was found last week? It wasn’t just nearby or something?” Dean forces himself to ask, ignoring the way his heart is suddenly thumping again. “And the girl found the week before – she was directly linked to the burial site too?”

Professor Bradshaw clears his throat, unfolding his arms. “I believe so, yes.”

“And that doesn’t seem – I don’t know – a little strange, to you?”

“Human beings committing violent acts against each other is generally something I find a little strange,” Professor Bradshaw replies, in clipped tones. “But beyond that – no. Now –” he breaks off, glancing at his watch. “I’m afraid I have a seminar to deliver in ten minutes,” he confesses, and there’s something unfinished about the way he says it, something almost reluctant. Like he half wants to stay here talking with Dean.

“No problem,” Dean stands, and takes a last glance at the sketches before handing them back, trying to commit them to memory. “Thanks, Professor.”

Their eyes meet as Professor Bradshaw accepts the page, and the room suddenly feels very airless, a pause suspended between them. Neither of them moves away.

This close, Dean can see miniscule flecks of grey like tiny stars lost in blue of Professor Bradshaw’s eyes, the way that his full lips are slightly chapped, like maybe he worries them between his teeth when he’s thinking. They’re soft pink and warm-looking, and Dean wonders fleetingly if they taste like peppermint tea.

“It was nice meeting you, Dean,” Professor Bradshaw says, gently, and his eyes are so blue.

“Uh – yeah – you too. Thanks. I’d – uh – I’d better get going,” Dean stammers, shoving his hands deep in his pockets and cursing the way his cheeks are suddenly flaming with heat. His thoughts churn unsteadily; he ignores them the way he’s learnt to.

Still feeling strangely wound-up, he nods awkwardly at Professor Bradshaw and turns reluctantly towards the door.

“Wait a moment, Dean –” Professor Bradshaw’s voice halts Dean in his tracks as he reaches the door, and Dean turns expectantly, heat thumping a little painfully.

“Yeah?”

“Here – you’re welcome to borrow a couple of books on local history,” Professor Bradshaw is pulling a couple of books down from the overflowing cabinet by the window. “They should have a bit more about the legend of the coven that you might find interesting. Divergences of the legend and so forth. I’ll need them back by Thursday morning as I’m teaching a class on them in the afternoon, but you’re welcome to borrow them until then if they’d be helpful.”

“You sure?” Dean takes the proffered books awkwardly, and swallows the strange disappointment sinks in him like a stone as Professor Bradshaw steps back again. “Thanks.”

“As I said, I’m also giving a lecture on Wednesday where I’ll be examining the history behind the legend of the coven. I meant what I said - you’d be more than welcome to attend,” Professor Bradshaw says, sincerely. His eyes are intent, and there’s a hint of something almost like hopefulness hidden in the depths of his gravelly voice. Working on long ingrained instinct, Dean chooses to ignore it.

“Thanks, I’ll – I’ll see what my schedule’s like,” Dean replies, haltingly.

“Of course,” Professor Bradshaw agrees. He turns back to his desk.

“Can I ask –” Dean pauses, watching Professor Bradshaw stuff another notebook and a stack of handouts into his briefcase. “You said you’re writing a paper about the runes at the forest burial site– do you go to there much?”

Professor Bradshaw glances up, distractedly. “Yes, I spend time there every week.”

“So you haven’t noticed anything – I don’t know – anything unusual when you’ve been there recently?” Dean ventures.

“Unusual how?” Professor Bradshaw closes his briefcase with a snap and looks up at Dean properly, eyes narrowed with sudden skepticism. It’s stronger than the hints Dean has caught at other points during their conversation, sharp and blue, a world away from the observant warmth of a few moments ago.

“I dunno – odd noises, sudden drops in temperature, shadows –”

“Just what are you asking me?” Professor Bradshaw demands, voice clipped and defensive.

“Have you seen anything like that?” Dean presses, stubbornly. Irritation prickles his skin.

“No, I haven’t,” Professor Bradshaw says, bluntly. “And you know why? Because yes, I study the supernatural – but it’s not real, Dean. I don’t know what kind of sensational article you’re writing about local lore, but I can assure you, lore is all it is.” He winds a striped scarf haphazardly around his neck, and grabs his briefcase off the desk. “Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a class to teach.”

Sam is eating some gross looking granola yoghurt pot with a plastic spoon when Dean eventually clambers back into the car, feeling distinctly frustrated.

“You took your time,” he remarks idly, raising an eyebrow as Dean adjusts the mirror with an unnecessary amount of force and turns on the ignition.

“Goddamn waste of time was what it was,” Dean mutters mutinously, pulling out of the space and then immediately being forced to hit the brakes when a cluster of students cross the parking lot in front of him. He grinds his teeth and resists the urge to honk the horn. “Thought I was getting somewhere but he completely shut down the minute I asked him if he’d noticed anything weird at the burial site.”

“Suspicious?” Sam frowns, through a mouthful of granola.

“No, don’t think so. Just really damn touchy,” Dean drums his fingers impatiently against the wheel as he waits for the students to move, “And a bit of an asshole. I dunno, suppose working in his field he’s probably used to people thinking he’s just some lunatic who believes in the supernatural.”

“And does he?”

Dean snorts. “No way. He’s got a real bee in his bonnet about it. You’d think someone who’s spent the last twenty years with their head buried in books about ghosts and covens and demonic possession might be a little more open to the idea,” he shrugs, and gives in to the temptation to lean on the horn, reveling in the brief satisfaction of making the students jump and scurry out of the way, “But no. The guy’s absolutely blind to it all, and could rival you on stubbornness.”

Sam purses his mouth in annoyance, but doesn’t rise to the bait. “Get anything useful at all?”

“He did lend me a couple books,” Dean admits, nodding in the direction of the backseat. “Have to take them back on Thursday morning, though. He needs them for some class.”

“He leant you his books?” Sam raises his eyebrows.

“Yeah,” Dean shrugs, skin prickling in annoyance, “What of it?”

“Dunno, that’s just,” Sam swallows a mouthful of yoghurt, “Pretty trusting. Academics usually treat their books as if they’re their first borns.”

“Don’t mess them up when you read them, then,” Dean says, dismissively, as they pull out onto the main street. “You find out anything useful about the victims?”

“Not really,” Sam leans back in his seat with a sigh, “Both from middle class, religious families. Seem to have been pretty well liked by people. Hard to establish any link more than that. The wife of the guy that was killed last week seemed a bit cagey, though,” he shrugs, “Might be worth a second visit to see if she’s holding out on us about something.”

“Right,” Dean drums his fingers impatiently against the wheel as they wait for a light to change. It’s starting to drizzle, tiny flecks of grey hitting the windshield. “Are we still definitely thinking ghost?”

“Seems like it,” Sam affirms, “The way the victims died definitely points to a vengeful spirit. But the place they were killed – connected to the burial site associated with the coven? I don’t know, I was thinking maybe it’s no ordinary ghost. Maybe it’s the vengeful spirit of a witch, and that’s why it’s so powerful?”

“Hm,” Dean mulls it over, flicking the windscreen wipers on as they continue to wait. They squeak slightly, repetitive and familiar. “You could be onto something there.”

“Yeah?”

“Professor Bradshaw was telling me about the local legend of the coven. Apparently, its leader was entombed alive by a bunch of angry churchgoers,” Dean steps on the accelerator as the light finally changes, and the rain-slicked village slides past in a blur. “That’s got to be some pretty good vengeful spirit material right there. And you said the victims were both religious, right? Can’t be a coincidence.”

“Why now, though?” Sam frowns. “It’s been what – two hundred years? There must have been plenty of churchgoers who walked by the burial site before now.”

“Dunno,” Dean shrugs, staring out at the rainy smudge of fall colors. The chestnuts trees lining the street are the same smoldering hue of amber as the one outside Professor Bradshaw’s window.

They drive in silence for a few moments, wipers squeaking.

“Okay,” Sam says, at length, “So I’m thinking – we go check into a motel, get through as much of these books from your professor as we can while we wait for the rain to stop, and then check out the burial site later this afternoon before it gets dark?” Sam asks, chucking his plastic spoon in the empty yoghurt container.

“He’s not ‘my professor’,” Dean says defensively, and suddenly has to step a little too hard on the breaks to avoid running a red light.

“Alright,” Sam says, slowly. “Okay.”

“Anyway, yeah,” Dean blusters, hastily, ignoring the weight of Sam’s gaze on the side of his face, “Works for me. But first,” he flicks on the indicator and pulls into a space near a little line of local shops. “Food. Not that yoghurty shit you’ve been eating. Real food.”

The forest is steeped in quiet in the way all ancient places are, fall singing the leaves on the gnarled branches that claw their way towards the fading gold of the late afternoon sun. Dean breathes in the wet, cloying smell of moss and follows Sam’s careful path through the trees. There’s a chill in the air, but the handle of Dean’s blade is hot in the palm of his hand.

“How much further to this place?” he hisses at Sam’s back, swatting a frond of bracken out of his face and casting his gaze edgily through the twisting branches and burnt amber.

“Nearly there, according to –” Sam stops so abruptly that Dean nearly collides with him, throwing out a cautionary arm.

“What?” Dean whispers urgently, instantly drawing his blade. His heart is racing now, whole body tense, coiled, ready to attack. His gaze flickers rapidly through the mess of branches and he stands on his tiptoes, trying to see past Sam’s stupidly large frame. “Sammy,” he hisses, impatiently, when Sam doesn’t immediately answer, “What is it?”

“There’s something there,” Sam breathes, almost inaudible. His posture is still, alert. Dean can see Sam’s hold on the gun in his back pocket tighten.

“What kind of something?” Dean whispers, craning his neck to try and see. The light seems somehow dimmer already, the fading sun sliding further towards the ground. When he breathes in, the smell of wet leaves is stronger, now that they’re in the heart of the forest. His heart is thrumming so fast but everything else feels suspended in time, unnaturally still.

“I think it’s a person,” Sam murmurs, and somewhere close, Dean hears the brittle rustle of dead leaves, loud and unnerving in the wooded quiet. He watches the quickened rise and fall of Sam’s shoulders as his breathing suddenly sharpens. “They’re holding something. They – shit, Dean, they’re coming this way.”

Dean reacts immediately and on nearly twenty years of protective instinct; he shoves Sam out of the way and stumbles out into the clearing, blade brandished in front of him.

---

#did i really just create a new ship tag on ao3 just because i couldn't get the idea of early seasons dean and pre-podcast jeremy meeting?#yes #yes i did #feedback truly makes my day <3 #crossposting from ao3 #bridgewater #bridgewater podcast #supernatural #dean winchester #jeremy bradshaw #dean x jeremy #spn fanfic #dean fanfic #my stuff #my posts: fanfic

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blee-bloop-im-a-bee · 4 years ago

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a scuffed scuffed podcast summary/liveblogging?

(mostly focused on dream, quotes might be off but its the general gist, timestamps not exact to second lol)

- Praise and congratulations all around for Sapnap and Punz’s valorant skills

- Dream: “well I woke up this morning and I found out I was a racist soo..” (context: Someone asked Jack how he felt about the Queen being racist and he replied that doesn’t really know anything about that and that he didn’t really care)

- They didn’t get into it though, Train said he was never going to get into Dream’s drama on this podcast (which he remarks is because it gives him anxiety, but I appreciate him for doing it nonetheless)

- on Tubbo joining in: Train confirming he would need a different cast because he’s concerned about Tubbo’s audience (& parents) and wants to set up another podcast properly where it would be more appropriate for them, to which Dream comments is respectable.

- Dream mentioned geoguessr

- after Train’s weird (/lh) intro for dream 1:22:00---

Dream: “You didn’t mention--oh nevermind it’s fine”

(Me, wondering if he was talking about his drama still)

Train: “OH YEAH, AND ONE OF THE FATTEST C**** IN HISTORY”

Dream laughing and going “you didn’t mention it, you mentioned it for everyone else..”

- Ludwig on having to limit his subs: yeah I’ve had to limit them but I found that some people have still managed to get around that

“I don’t think anybody would try to get around that”- Dream

- They talked about the david dobrik drama, I didn’t care so much for the topic so I spaced out but Dream put in some thoughts about someone’s apology it seemed like he wasn’t on board with it (sorry I wasn’t paying attention)

- Dream, was that you that mentioned jenna marbles? (1:41:35) crumbs of my favorite ccs colliding??

- Dream: acknowledging the difficulty of females coming forward to speak out against creators for fear of being lashed out at by the fanbase (1:42:00)

- Abdou: Do you think big creators actually don’t realize the power they have? Will: I think it’s more that they start forgetting that their fanbase are still real people... (neat food for thought, they were still talking in the context of david dobrik but because they were also mentioning how he achieved fame at a young age, i couldn’t help but think about dream)---- dream said nothing during this part

- topic on among us, Dream chiming in at 1:51:00 (spaced out didn’t listen)

- spaced out more, dream’s face reveal went trending on twitter apparently just cause of an earlier mixup when punz’s face showed up in the box where dream’s name was

- in the background, dream was also on his private twt to reassure a fan commenting on how moe brought up dream’s fans negatively (i remember moe bringing us up but i didn’t catch the context)

- ~2:10:00 ish?? Youtube talk, dream didn’t say much :(

- Dream once again declaring that Ludwig will definitely keep streaming until the end of the month and that he’ll make sure of it

- Ludwig saying Dweam

- Ludwig not leaving until he heard Dream say goodbye which dream claims he did, and that Ludwig couldn’t pick and choose his goodbyes. Ludwig threatened to ban Dream’s alt to which Dream was like “NO no no don’t i want to be able to read your chat”

- Dream, loudly: “I have never had sushi” (not unprompted, they were talking about sushi, but I just liked how he said it-- he used the voice)

- Dream lore: He had walmart sushi. He got roasted for it (deserved)

- Talking about cancel culture:: ~~2:53:00 2:57:30 Dream brings up his drama and summarizes it but does agree that if he those videos about him been true, he should be cancelled (I think that was his gist?)

Train’s point is that there is too many people who are quick to cancel, but when they are wrong, do nothing to make things right ie. Johnny Depp situation

Moe acknowledging that theres a culture of bandwagoning on hating on popular creators

3:01:00 Will bringing together all the points & mentioning Kacey and kpop stans bringing up the time they bought out trumps speech tickets- and hopes that all of the stans (kpop, minecraft) continue to have this passion when they turn 18 to affect the ballots

- Train talking about weebs and about to go a buck fifty, dream and karl were warning him to “be careful” lmao (i think train said something about how its always the ones with anime pfps saying the weirdest shit)

- I wonder what dream is doing while they’re all talking about manga/comics- I’m waiting for him to come in and say: I have never watched anime in that voice he didn’t end up saying this

Dream: “Gorillas are really strong..” King kong vs. Godzilla convo

Dream saying something about spiderman, then Train calling spiderman a pussy and like wtf man I was starting to think you were alright, and then talking over dream?? unforgiveable. /j

-oop they’re going back into cancel culture when Train reads out a tweet: ~3:34:00 I can’t summarize this, this is a little too deep for my sleepy brain, but I feel like train is talking about how quick to judge people are almost being ready to jump the gun just to cancel someone thinking that that person wanted to cancel him, but Dream is pointing out that both sides don’t really understand each other and that person probably wasn’t trying to cancel Train. Jack also spoke up to help clarify to which you could hear Dream agreeing.

Dream acknowledges that there is a need for creators to make an effort to understand discussion that goes around and to be respectful at the same time, admitting that he’s reacted in anger in the past and disregarded discussions.

^ There were a lot of points made, and I didn’t get all of dream’s responses. It was interesting conversation because we have Train being honest and venting his frustrations about cancel culture which I can sympathize with. Dream (and Jack) spoke up a lot during the whole thing to try to shift Train’s point of view and the things he said were really admirable

Dream brings up the thing that happened with charlie a while back and said he dm’d charlie about that misunderstanding as dream puts it- and says that they are good now and saying something along the lines of open communication being so important

- Someone: “the only thing that matters is that my wife doesn’t cancel me.” Dream: “that’s really sweet” <- no u

- “Would you let your kids watch on Twitch” Dream: As long as you’re aware and know about Twitch and Youtube, and as long as you teach your kids internet safety it should be fine

- Dream, on Train saying he hopes everyone will still be friends with him after this: “I actually hate you now” (in a joking tone). Dream wants to play among us with Train. Dream, prompted to say one nice thing about Train and also the last words he said on the podcast: “An attractive motherfucker.”

#this is a really scuffed summary #idk i just felt like using this podcast to practice my listening skills #dreamwastaken #i have zero opinion about all this #all i know is listen to dream voice

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dungeondivebar · 5 years ago

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Dungeon Dive Bar Crawl - Heck Knights In Space!

As we announced last week, we’ll be running a 24 hour stream for Extra Life on November 6 and 7! Check out that link for some more information on the stream and how to tune in.

Each Friday until the event itself, we’ll be publishing an interview with the GM of one of the adventures along with other material to get everybody super jazzed for the stream.

This week we’re talking to Megan, though you may know me better as Retha ;)

How long have you played TTRPGs in general? About five years now. I'd heard a lot about them beforehand, but could never find a group because no one in my tiny hometown was a nerd like me. Finally, in my freshman year of college, I found a group of nerd friends, including Alex, and started a D&D game. 5e was pretty brand-new at that point, so we started in 4e and then changed over not long after.

What is your favorite thing about TTRPGs overall? I love the character design. I'll usually start with a build and work out the concept as I go, but as I build further I usually find the character's personality solidifying in my head, and it's only a matter of time before they have a specific appearance, too. I'm an artist, after all.

How long have you played Pathfinder and Starfinder in particular? I've been playing Starfinder basically since it was released. I was barely familiar with Pathfinder at the time; I'd played a game with some friends that fell apart after about four sessions, and at the time I wasn't a fan of all the rules and options. Starfinder seemed a bit more reasonable on the options side of things, though, since it was brand new.

I came over to Pathfinder via the lore. I've always been interested in divine casters, and I took an interest in the gods of Pathfinder as they were represented in Starfinder. It's a long story, but I started writing a Starfinder fanfic that had me digging deep into Pathfinder lore, and eventually I got interested enough to actually try to play the game, theorycraft some builds, and get involved in the community of a certain other Pathfinder podcast.

Have you ever been the GM of a campaign or module before? I'm not quite a "forever GM," but I have GM'd a lot. My GMing resumé includes a D&D 4e homebrew that turned into a 5e homebrew, a 2-year Starfinder homebrew, a running play-by-post of the Runelords trilogy, Against the Aeon Throne twice (plus a follow-up homebrew adventure one of those times), an attempt at Hell's Vengeance, a rewrite of Tyrant's Grasp for an all-divine party, the Pathfinder 2e adventure Agents of Edgewatch, and countless one-offs. (Notable one-offs included an all-Shelynite party braving Nidal and a tournament of universes where characters from the Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Golarion came together to fight Tiamat.)

What is your favorite part of being a GM? Getting to make up my own stories or add my own elements to prewritten ones, and ultimately, getting to decide what system we're playing, though if we're doing a long-term campaign the players get some say in this too. I love setting up opportunities for roleplay. I also like seeing what characters people bring to the table, especially when they have a lot of backstory I can work into the campaign.

What will you be running for the Dungeon Dive Bar Crawl? Can you tell us a bit about it? I'm running a homebrew scenario I've temporarily called "Heck Knights In Space." As the name might suggest, I required all the other players to be Hellknights for this game, which mostly just translates to lawful-aligned in Starfinder, since there's only one archetype for it and I didn't want to force everyone to take it. I don't want to spoil anything for the players if they happen to be reading this, but the module's premise is centered around exploring an abandoned Hellknight Citadel that's been broken into and involves both starship and ground combat.

What are you most excited about when it comes to Heck Knights in Space? Getting the chance to combine two of my favorite things-- Starfinder and Hellknights. As far as the module's content goes, there are some enemies that I've been wanting to use for a while now, as well as some I built myself.

Why do you like Hellknights so much?

...In all seriousness, though, I'm a very lawful person IRL, and also an edgelord. I first read about Hellknights in the Starfinder Pact Worlds book, and basically instantly fell in love. On a deeper level, I'm intrigued by the different Orders and their different philosophies-- I definitely don't like all of them. You've got everything ranging from a group of detectives whose specific objective is to take out bad-faith actors, to a group of bounty hunters that operate across multiple star systems while using their codes as protection from those systems' own enforcement organizations, to a group whose main "thing" is finding new and improved ways to summon devils and work infernal magic. And they all operate under the same overarching codes, the Measure and the Chain, with what I can only imagine are vastly different interpretations.

What do you like the most about the Starfinder system? The lore! The flavor! Watching people try to come up with a balanced party for starship combat (or not try, and then just utterly fail in starship combat... I’ve had that happen in a few Society games, oof) is always a good show. Building my own enemies to fit the campaign is always fun too, especially boss enemies.

Can you explain how starship combat works for the viewers? Screams internally well here goes nothing. PCs operate from within a starship and choose a role on the ship. The only part of their character build that's really relevant to what they're doing is the skill modifier they're using for that role. It usually becomes a team effort, though, because it's a collaborative game.

There's different phases in which different roles operate, though the captain and chief mate can operate in any phase they need to.

Engineering phase is first, and gives ships' engineers and magic officers a chance to repair any damaged systems or boost operational ones to give a bonus to anyone using them this turn.

Next is the helm phase, where pilots roll off for initiative. It's a bit like Star Wars X-Wings in how it handles initiative: the lower roll actually goes first, because whoever acts second has the positioning advantage. (I think at one point Paizo admitted that X-Wings inspired them). Also in the helm phase, the science officer can scan the enemy ship to gain info about it, or can move your shields around to defend the firing arc the enemy ship is facing.

Finally, there's the gunnery phase, where ships attack each other. Obviously, the gunners act during this phase.

It sounds really complicated, but it's easy enough to understand once you get going, as long as you understand what your role can do!

What do you think players are the most excited about? Depends on the player. I know David is super excited about the starship combat system. Alex is more interested in ground combat; he has a technomancer build he's been theorycrafting for a while. Sam is excited about the huge variety of race options; last I heard he was trying to make fetch shakalta happen. Though if that doesn't work, we might see a familiar face…

What do you think our viewers will enjoy the most? If my brother-in-law is any indication, the callbacks to a specific group of Hellknights in Pathfinder will be pretty fun. ;)

And that’s it for this week’s interview! Tune in starting at 9PM Central on Friday November 6 for the stream and in the meantime, join us at the bar for new Dungeon Dive Bar episodes every Monday at midnight Central!

#paizo #extra life #pathfinder #podcast #tabletop #tabletop gaming #tabletop rpg #tabletop roleplaying game #pathfinderrpg #Pathfinder Roleplaying Game #Pathfinder 2E #pathfinder 1e #starfinder #Dungeon Dive Bar #dungeondivebar

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critroleing · 6 years ago

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If Campaign 2 went Live in the Middle (like Campaign 1)

Since you guys liked it so much the first time, let’s run through the real world AU where campaign 2 was the one we started in the middle of, but more in depth this time.

There would be a backstory/introduction vid that played in the beginning of episodes and in the break. This is more or less what it would say:

Caleb: All of his backstory will be explained in one chunk, including stuff like the residuum crystals in his arms, his past name, and the concept of scourgers, stuff that was plot twists that came along the way for us. No attention will be paid to how this backstory came out to the characters. Nor who among the characters actually know any of this. We will assume by default that everyone knows.

Nott: this is the story of Veth, mostly. The story of how she got bullied as a child, had a marriage and a baby, got kidnapped and transformed into a goblin but regained her family and now they’re waiting for her in Nicodranas. The story of how she regained them is kind of like the story of how Pike died. Technically it was in game, but it’s so far away it’s essentially backstory.

Beau: The lore we’ve gotten from her is much more sporadic, but they’ll take the pieces of what we have gotten and treat it like the Lore Drops we’ve gotten from people like Caleb and Nott. Her childhood in Kamordah will be explained, along with how she got kidnapped by monks, has a baby brother and mentor named Dairon will all be given as if everyone knows these facts and not like they were carefully dished out to one person here and one person there. (Because of this the fandom’s view of her will be slightly off from who she actually is, and that will lead to a good chunk of fans disliking her, at least until they get the hang of her character.)

Jester will probably be the least affected by this change. We knew her backstory early and met her mother later, which is how this turns out. Her backstory does reach all the way up to include the gnoll follower she met in Asarius and preparations for Travelercon. The Traveler will inevitably turn up somewhere and talk to Jester. He will seem super shady. In other words, nothing much will have changed.

Fjord: Huge changes here. During the time we wouldn’t have seen Fjord has learned who Uk’otoa is, followed him, almost set him free, stopped working for him, lost his powers and started working for another power. That is a lot of developments to be relegated to backstory, and this is on top of the backstory he already had. There will be a brief mention of Fjord having had a different accent in the past, the fandom will not pick up on how big of a deal that is.

Caduceus: His backstory might include the story of the Clays, the Dusts and the Stones, in which case he will feel a lot like Keyleth did. He will sound like he has a Plan, in a way that he did not seem to, watching it episode by episode. We don’t actually know all that much about Caduceus’ personal life, so his backstory presentation might have to go for the big picture stuff.

Yasha: She’ll get her own presentation. We know this because Ashley wasn’t there for the first few episodes of c1 but Pike’s presentation was there anyway. Explanations of her backstory will include Zuala, blacking out and coming to again, the Stormlord, mentions of Obann but not her current situation. That will be explained in the very beginning by Matt, with interruptions form the rest of the gang. The fandom will not understand how serious it is until Yasha comes back.

Molly will not get a presentation. He, in fact, will not be acknowledged until someone makes a reference to him and suddenly the cast will remember that, oh, the audience doesn’t know who he is. The audience understands that this was Taliesin’s previous character, but the extent of his influence on the party will be lost as we have no real feel for Molly’s character or what he could have inspired in others.

Male pronouns will be used when explaining Molly, people will immediately forget that and it becomes pretty common to see and hear Molly depicted as a woman and then people correcting them. The Ruby of the Sea will take some explaining, but she’s definitely one of the people we have to meet as soon as possible. “She’s the best lay ever, you guys,” Laura informs us. We do not get the joke.

Someone remembers Pumat Sol exists. They try to explain him. It’s really hard. Matt does an accent and the fandom enjoys it.

The fact that the Mighty Nein are already established in Xhorhas feels alienating to a lot of viewers. Apparently they’re heroes of the Dynasty? And have a house? With a tree on it? And Beau’s mentor Dairon is there?

So the reason they are heroes is because they gave the Bright Queen some sort of artefact. The fandom is unsure of what it was or where it came from, but it may be that the Empire has another one. The larger lore of how the Dens and Beacons work is largely lost, and with it a lot of understanding about the larger world and the war.

At some point far in the future it comes out that they’ve already met Trent Ikithon, Caleb’s main bad guy. Nothing much seemed to happen. Lots of meta about how that meeting was going to happen has to be thrown out.

Jester has pets. Sprinkle doesn’t get mentioned a lot, but at least he’s on adventures with them. There is also Nugget, who lives Marion and we eventually get to meet. We don’t know where they came from, presumably Jester had them the whole time, like childhood pets.

They also adopted a baby bird for a while. They say it could mimic speech? The people who know what kenku are have their suspicions, everyone else thinks it’s another pet.

Beau has some trauma related to some academic by the name of Professor Thaddeus. Much meta has been written about who he is and what happened between him and Beau.

They know a gentleman who’s blue and sweaty. He is also maybe Jester’s dad. Jury’s out on that one.

The Empire feels so far away, and so Other. People praise Matt for making the humans the bad guys and the Drow the good guys.

The fact that they were pirates once comes up in conversation. A joke is made about it. Nothing is explained.

Eventually it comes out that it had things do do with Fjord’s patron, there was a sexy cult leader pirate with a French accent who Fjord slept with, and they got banished from the pirate island within a day.

They still technically have French accent pirate’s ship. It’s called the Ball Eater. They go there once and we meet the Tortle bagpiper tattoo artist who runs it. His name is Orly. The fandom loses its’ shit.

The ship is named that because of Fjord apparently. He ate some orbs once, so they say.

Fjord also ate a sword once? Was he in a circus? Yasha and that Molly person were in a circus, was Fjord there too?

Jester carries around a an erotica book. Where it comes from no one knows, but it doesn’t seem out of character for her so we roll with it.

They have had an encounter with a dragon, an ancient white one, but they haven’t killed any.

Except maybe they have?

Beau has slept with two (2) whole guest characters.

Jester casts Sending to talk to a guy. Matt answers in a very sexy voice. We think the guy is an NPC. He’s not.

A sweet lady once sent actual letters with actual, physical gifts to them.

After that there are more than a few bets on what other NPC’s are actually guest characters being jaegered for the moment.

Why are they even called the Mighty Nein? The cast explains that it had to do with a session in the early levels when they were rolling a lot of nines, and it sounds funny when Caleb says it. It was probably funny if you were there, but for the fandom it just sounds kinda dumb.

Nott might get some more shipping attention, given that she’s actually a halfling. She also might not, because she’s both married and ugly.

Fjord and Jester still share a deep bond, but the more overt parts of Jester’s crush that were prominent in the earlier episodes seem to have mellowed out by the time we meet them. Fjord and Jester also haven’t, percentage wise, spent more time together as a pair than a group, so that dynamic isn’t really seen. Fjorester exists, but has a very different vibe to it.

Widomauk does not exist.

Beauyasha might exist, if only because they are the only two confirmed wlw in the group. It’s more of an idea until they meet and chemistry can be measured of course.

Beaujester exists, but very much in the ‘look at their emotional chemistry, wouldn’t it be nice’. In a way, not much has changed, you just have less of a basis to ship on.

Fjorclay might be big for a while, given how important Caduceus has been for Fjord’s journey lately.

Videos resurface of the cast playing at home before this campaign became public. Fjord has a Texan accent. Nott calls herself a little goblin girl. That is a really weird Caduceus voice. Life feels strange.

Sam asks Liam on their podcast what would be the worst character to play in D&D, just the worst. Liam suggests goblin. Seems like he was thinking worst as in most morally dubious.

Nott rolls a natural 1 and shoots herself in the foot with her own crossbow. That’s not good, the fandom thinks, what if she got killed doing damage to herself? Besides, that would look really dumb.

We will never know about Spurt.

Jester, Fjord and Yasha got kidnapped by slavers once, we find out alarmingly late. They seem fine though, so that turns into another trivia fact.

Actually no, that’s probably mentioned in passing when they’re explaining how Molly died. It doesn’t really hit home with most if the fandom though.

Unclear where Caleb can teleport to. Generally assumed that he knows at least one teleport circle in the Empire.

In this world Vox Machina probably doesn’t exist at all. At least not online. Maybe they played all of that campaign at home, so we get occasional references to ‘their first game’ or ‘their home game’ but have no context for that either.

In which case you could make a whole category for references to the first campaign we wouldn’t understand.

Like why Taliesin is explaining how the guns work.

Or the ruins of Draconia down south.

Or why the team were so hyped to go to Whitestone.

Or maybe this was their first campaign after all, and none of these things have any additional context.

Nott will be looked at mostly as a halfling mother. Instead of discussions about if she’s even old enough to be an adult she’s considered older than the rest, and a large contingent of the fandom is mad at her for adventuring when she has a child waiting for her at home.

Caleb has at least two homebrew spells. They are eventually referred to as Dunamancy. The fandom realises the level of worldbuilding Matt’s on in that he’s made an entire new school of magic.

Feel free to add more. I’m sure there’s stuff I haven’t considered out there.

#critical role #critical role spoilers #cr spoilers #cr meta #critical role meta #what if cr2 started in the middle #like cr1 did

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loretranscripts · 6 years ago

Text

Lore Episode 33: A Dead End (Transcript) - 2nd May, 2016

tw: gore

Disclaimer: This transcript is entirely non-profit and fan-made. All credit for this content goes to Aaron Mahnke, creator of Lore podcast. It is by a fan, for fans, and meant to make the content of the podcast more accessible to all. Also, there may be mistakes, despite rigorous re-reading on my part. Feel free to point them out, but please be nice!

When the trucker pulled up to the toll booth on Route 895 in Virginia, it was the middle of the night, and the look on his face was one of confusion and fear. The toll booth attendant listened to the man’s story and then sent him on his way. The state highway there is referred to as the Pocahontas Parkway, so maybe the man’s story was just a play on the name’s motif, but when the highway department received more than few phone calls that night from distressed motorists, each telling essentially the same story, the authorities began to take notice. What the trucker saw, what all of them claimed to have seen, was a small group of Native Americans standing in the grass between the east- and west-bound lanes of traffic near Mill Road. The trucker described them as standing motionless in the grass, each one holding a burning torch. He assumed they were picketing, of course – after all, the parkway is rumoured to cut through land that’s sacred to local Native American tribes – but the middle of the night didn’t seem like the right time for a peaceful protest. So, it didn’t sit well with him, or the others who claimed to see the very same thing. The Times Dispatch caught wind of the story and soon people were flocking to the Mill Street overpass to see if they, too, could catch a glimpse of the ghosts. And that’s what it all comes down to, isn’t it? We all want to see the ghosts, to witness history press it’s face against the glass of the present, to cheat reality, in a sense. Each year, thousands of people around the world claim that they, too, have seen a ghost. They tell their stories and pass along their goose-bumps like some communicable disease. But the reality is that, for most of us, we never see a thing. History is often nothing more than a distant memory. In some places, though, that history floats a bit closer to the surface. I’m Aaron Mahnke, and this is Lore.

When the English arrived in what is now Virginia way back in 1607, they found the land heavily populated by the original inhabitants of the region. The English called them the Powhatan, although that was just the name of their leader. If you don’t recognise his name that’s understandable, but everyone certainly remembers his daughter, Pocahontas. Before Richmond was… Richmond, the land where it now stands was an important Powhatan settlement. In 1607, a party from Jamestown travelled inland and claimed the location as their own. Possession of the land bounced back and forth between the Native Americans and the English for years, but it was finally in 1737 that the tribes lost, and Richmond was born.

Early on, Richmond played host to important figures in the American Revolution against England. Patrick Henry, the man who shouted: “Give me liberty, or give me death”, did so from St. John’s Church, right there in Richmond. And in the middle of the Revolutionary War, Thomas Jefferson served as the governor of Virginia out of the city. Less than a century later, Richmond became a key city in the Confederacy, as the American Civil War tore the country apart. From its munitions factory and railroad system to the seat of the new government under Jefferson Davis, it was a powerful city, and rightly so – and at the centre of it all is Belle Isle. It sits right there in the James River, between Hollywood Cemetery to the north and Forest Hill to the south. It’s easy to overlook on a map, but far from being an afterthought, Belle Isle is actually home to some of the most painful memories in the history of the city.

Before the English arrived and Captain John Smith stood atop the rocks there, Belle Isle belonged to the Powhatan. Shortly after the English took control of it late in the early 1700s it was a fishery, and then, in 1814, the Old Dominion Iron and Nail Company built a factory there. Positioned on the river with the strong current never tiring, it was the perfect location to harness the power of the water. As the ironworks grew, so did its footprint. The factory expanded, a village was built around it, and even a general store popped up to serve the hundreds of people who called the island home. But they wouldn’t be the only ones to live there. In 1862, Confederate forces moved onto the island and began to fortify it. Their plan was to use the isolated island as a prison camp and began to transport Union captives there by the thousands. Over the three years it was in operation, the prison played host to over 30,000 Union soldiers, sometimes over 10,000 at a time. The crowded space and resentful feelings between Confederate and Union ideals led to deplorable conditions.

In 1882, after living with memories of the prison camp for nearly two decades, New York cavalry officer William H. Wood wrote to the editor of the National Tribune with his observations. “Many froze to death during the winter,” he wrote, “others were tortured in the most barbarous manner. I’ve seen men put astride a wooden horse such as masons use, say, 5ft high, with their feet tied to stakes in the ground, and left there for an hour or more on a cold, winter morning. Often their feet would freeze and burst open.” He also wrote of their lack of food. “A lieutenant’s dog,” he wrote, “was once enticed over the bank and taken into an old tent, where it was killed and eaten raw. Your humble servant had a piece of it. For this act of hungry men, the entire camp was kept out of rations all day.” There were only a few wooden shacks to house the prisoners, so they lived out their days completely exposed to the elements – blistering heat, freezing cold, rain and frost, and all of it contributed to the suffering of the men who were held there. Estimates vary depending on the source, but it’s thought that nearly half of those that were brought to the camp – that’s close to 15,000 – never left alive.

Today, Belle Isle is a public park, but it’s haunted by a dark past, and by those who lived and died there long ago. You can’t see their ghosts, but you can certainly feel them. It’s a heavy place. Those who visit the island claim to have felt its dark past in the air like the stifling heat of an iron forge. But there are other places in Richmond that are said to be haunted. Unlike Belle Isle, though, these locations aren’t in ruins, or nearly forgotten by the living. They’re right in the middle of everyday life, and each one has a unique story to tell. They have their own past, and according to those who have been there, it can still be seen.

Technically, Wrexham Hall is in Chesterfield County, just south of Richmond, but when you speak to people about the city’s deep, haunting past, it’s always brought up as a perfect example of local lore, and while it doesn’t have a large number of stories to tell, what it does offer is chilling enough. The house was built at the end of the 18th century by Archibald Walthall, who left the home to his daughters, Polly and Susannah. It was Susannah who later sold her childhood home, but because there was always risk that the property might be used for future construction, she required that the new owners at least preserve the family graveyard. Time and the elements, though, have allowed the site of the burial ground to slip from memory, and according to some, that’s why Susannah has returned to Wrexham Hall, perhaps in an effort to make sure some piece of the past is still remembered.

Many years after her death, the home was owned by a man named Stanley Hague. He and a handful of other men had been working in the field near the house when they looked up to see a woman in a red dress sitting on the front porch. They all saw her, and even commented to each other about it. It was hard to miss that bright red against the white home. Later, when Stanley headed home from work, he asked his wife if her mother had been on the porch that day. No, she told him, she’d been away all day in Richmond.

In Hollywood Cemetery, just north of Belle Isle, there are other stories afoot. The graveyard was established in 1849 and is the final resting place of a number of important figures – former US presidents James Monroe and John Tyler, along with Confederate president Jefferson Davis. There are also two Supreme Court Justices buried there, along with 22 confederate generals and over 18,000 troops. The soldiers are honoured with an enormous stone pyramid that reaches up beyond the tree tops, and even though no one is buried beneath it, there have been several reports of moans heard coming from the stones. Others have claimed to have felt cold spots near the base. But it’s really a grave nearby that’s the site of the most activity there. This grave belongs to a little girl who died at the age of three from a childhood illness, and standing beside her tombstone is a large, cast iron dog. According to the local legend, the dog once stood outside her father’s grocery store, but when she passed away in 1862, it was moved to her grave to look after her. That might not be completely accurate, though. In the early 1860s, many iron objects were melted down to be used for military purposes, so the dog was most likely moved to the cemetery as a way of protecting it, but that hasn’t stopped the stories – stories that include visions of a little girl playing near the grave, or the sound of barking in the middle of the night.

Nearby, on Cary Street, is the old, historic Byrd Theatre. It was built in 1928 and named after the founder of Richmond himself, William Byrd. The space inside is enormous – it can seat over 900 on the lower level and another 400 or so in the balcony, and it’s up there that some of the oddest experiences have taken place. When the theatre opened its doors in December of 1928, Robert Coulter was the manager, and he continued to serve in that role all the way up until 1971, when he passed away. For over four decades, he was a permanent fixture in the theatre, often found sitting in his favourite seat up to one side of the balcony, and if we believe the stories, Robert never left. The current manager has been told by a number of people that they’ve all seen a tall man in a suit, sitting in the balcony at times when no one else was up there. Others have physically felt someone pass by them while operating the projector. The former manager has even been seen on more than one occasion by employees locking the front doors at night, as if he were coming out to help them. The stories that are whispered about places like Byrd Theatre aren’t alone. There are dozens of locations across the city that claim unusual activity and equally eerie stories, but none can claim to have played host to a flesh and blood monster. None, that is, except for one.

In 1875, the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway Company was looking to connect some track in Richmond to another spur 75 miles to the south. Newport News was down that way, and that meant ocean and shipping. It was a gamble to make their railroad more profitable in the wake of the Industrial Revolution and its increasing demand for things like coal, something mined in western Virginia. Part of the new railway line would cut through Richmond, near Jefferson Park, and it was decided that a tunnel would be constructed for the track to pass through. Trains would enter on 18th Street and then exit 4000ft later on the eastern end, near 31st Street. It was one of those ideas that sounded perfect on paper. Reality, though, had a few complications to throw at them. Richmond sits on a geological foundation of clay, as opposed to the bedrock found in other parts of the state. It’s the kind of soil that changes consistency depending on the season and weather. Rainy months lead to more ground water, and that swells the clay. Dry months cause the opposite. As you can imagine, it’s difficult to build on ground that constantly changes density. Even during construction, there were a number of cave-ins. Between the project’s inception in 1875 and its completion six years later, at least ten men died while working in the tunnel. Even after it was open, water had a tendency to seep in and cause problems, something that went on for decades.

Around 1901, though, alternative routes were created, and the Church Hill Tunnel was used less and less. But when the railroad wanted to increase capacity in 1925, they remembered the old tunnel, and began work to bring it up to modern standards. Maybe now, they thought, they could do it right. By the autumn of 1925, the tunnel was playing host to a crew of brave men, supported by a work train powered by steam. They were slowly making their way along the length of the tunnel, making repairs, improving the engineering and hopefully making the tunnel safe for future use. But even after claiming so many lives decades before, the tunnel didn’t seem to be done just yet.

On October 2nd, while doing what they’d been doing for weeks, dozens of men were working inside the tunnel when the ceiling collapsed. Most escaped, but five men were trapped inside, buried alive. And to make matters worse, the steam engine exploded from the weight of the debris pressed down on it, filling the tunnel with steam and dust, eventually contributing to even further collapse. According to the story as it’s told today, something did, in fact, walk out of the tunnel – but it wasn’t human. They say it was a hulking creature, covered in strips of decaying flesh, with sharp teeth and a crazed look in its eye. And because witnesses reported that blood was flowing from its mouth, many have since referred to it as the Richmond Vampire. No one could explain why the creature was there. Some suggested that it had been attracted to the carnage and had come to feed. They say that’s why the early rescue attempts only found one of the five missing men, still seated at the control of the work train. There was no other sign of the other victims of the tragedy, though, so some suggest that perhaps the vampire had something to do with that. Witnesses say that the creature fled out the eastern end of the tunnel, past the gathering crowd of workers, and then made its way south to Hollywood Cemetery. Some of the workmen who had managed to escape the collapse and witnessed the creature’s getaway were able to make chase, following it through the graveyard for a distance. Then, they claimed, it slipped into one of the tombs, the final resting place of a man named W. W. Pool.

Pool, it turns out, was a relatively unknown accountant who had died just three years prior. According to the local legend, this made sense – the blood on the mouth, the jagged teeth, the return to the mausoleum. All of it pointed to one, undeniable fact that quickly spread across the city as one of the premier legends of Richmond. Pool was, of course, a vampire. It’s said that people returned to the cemetery for many nights, each one eagerly waiting to see if the vampire would emerge from its hiding place once more, but there were no other stories to tell us what happened next. If the Richmond Vampire had been active before the Church Hill tunnel incident, it seems he had gone into retirement immediately after it. Like many tales of local lore, this story ends on an unsatisfying note. Just as the mysterious creature’s trail from the collapsed tunnel finally ended in the shadowy doorway of a cold mausoleum, the story of what happened seems to end in shadows as well. Much like the tunnel itself, it was now nothing more than a dead end.

A funny thing happens somewhere between real life events in the past and the stories we tell each other around the campfire or dining room table. Much like the true and tried telephone game, where the message is passed from person to person through a long chain of possession, these old stories shift and change. The change is never visible. They adapt to a new culture, or take on elements that are only relevant to a particular generation, but after decades, sometimes even centuries, these stories stand before us transformed, which is the difference between history and folklore, after all. History, there’s a paper trail, a clear image of the original that time and distance has more difficult time eroding. Folklore is like water, forever shifting to fit the crevice as the rock breaks down. Richmond is an old city by the standards of most Americans. Yes, there are older places on the east coast, but it has a storied history that makes it feel almost timeless – Jamestown, the Revolutionary War, the Civil War and the Confederacy. American history would be lacking something essential without the role Richmond has played through it all. Some of that history is unchanged, but some, it seems, has undergone deep transformation over the years, and a prime example of that is the story of the Richmond Vampire.

The collapsed tunnel and the train inside are all fact. There have even been modern day efforts to rescue the train car inside and clear the rubble, but the tunnel is now flooded with the same ground water that made it unstable in the first place. The events that happened on that dark, October day in 1925 were real, though – at least to a degree. A lone survivor did crawl from the wreckage, as the story tells us. His teeth were sharp and his mouth was bloody. Even his skin, hanging from his body like wet linen bandages, is documented fact. But the survivor had a name – Benjamin Mosby. He was a 28-year-old employee of the railroad and was described as big and strong. At the moment of the accident, he’d been standing in front of the train’s open coal door, shirt off, covered in sweat, and shovelling fuel into the fire. When the tunnel collapsed, the boiler burst under the pressure, washing Mosby in a flood of scalding water. But he somehow survived, crawled free from the rock and twisted metal, and walked to safety. He died the following day at the local hospital, and it was his appearance, with bloody, broken teeth and skin boiled from his body in ribbons, that fuelled the story we still whisper today. It’s almost cliché to say it, but it’s true – sometimes the real-life events that birth the legend turn out to be more frightening and horrific than any folktale could ever be.

[Closing Statements]

#lore podcast #aaron mahnke #podcast transcripts #richmond #richmond vampire #virginia #33 #transcripts

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unproduciblesmackdown · 6 years ago

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some random numbers: 1, 3, 6, 15, 23, 31, 35, 40. give me ur ungodly long answers.

lmaooo YES brevity whom......i cannot be concise

1) favorite videos?

i sure spent 2010 - 2014 enjoying youtube horror interpersonal-drama series marble hornets, those are a good time. and here in the future you and i both know there is just a wellspring of wrol-related Video Content out there, god damn, i really love so many of them.....in between that there’s sure been a lot of fun and funney videos and like, some Artistique ones i like to revisit [or have disappeared :( ] but i always like to promote this Wuthering Heights one. i love it. oh lol!!!! and the uh, Skate 3 Glitch compilations!!! so so funny

3) favorite memes?

i think Deep Fried Memes are fun all the time lol. the Youtube Meme of “___ but ____” is a lot of fun OH YEAH steamed hams was awesome too. the 24601 Releases A Sammich On Parole ytp is priceless......this is just turning into favorite videos again lmao. vine as a meme and a whole

6)favorite mixes?

you know i never really made or used playlists lol!!!! i will just be like, in the mood for certain songs or else like “i want to listen to music but....which ones”.....i say i can never be concise and all of these answers turning out short lol. it’s not b/c i’m Concise but b/c like, i don’t know what Favorites i have and i don’t have a memory that works without Direct Reminders of Specific Things so i’m just failing to like, come up with the info in the first place smh

15) favorite fictional characters?

here we go lol i can answer this one cuz when i have a fave rave it’s rare and like, easier to remember cuz i do not Go Hard about it that often.....weirdly for the first few years of The Decade i did’t really have such certain faves.....i was def enjoying some characters, as i always do, but nothing like super standout. then in ‘11 or ‘12 or whatever i was like oh hey, ed from cowboybeboy.......and then just had like, the solo experience of me humoring myself w/ that. bit of an usual one b/c a lot of the characters i Really latch on to will tend to be kinda roughly similar in ways that maybe seem pretty at-first-glance levels of obvious, buuut idk she’s not That far off from my usual selections i guess lol. anyways then in 2014 i was like, time to go ham for lars. what a valuable time it was....what Fun we had.....truly tho! and then another interval later it’s 2016 and for similarly (relatable characters of roughly the same cut) i was like, well here i am having a great time re: kip, all while getting to generously use of my fave shade of blue and fangs central and all that fun stuff. and then another interval later the Eventual Unfolding of what started innn 2017 i guess occurs, and it’s late 2018, and i’m like, time to look into Jared Kleinman b/c just from reading the wikipedia summary that didn’t mention him all that much i could tell this was probably a character i’d go ham for for predictable reasons, and the vague interest in that has stuck with me for the past little-over-a-year......and then i was Completely right lol. deh? well that’s just Bonus Jared Lore, to me (though of course alana in her own right is a great and similarly underappreciated character. rights)....and then of course i’ve had a lot of fun with pretty much each and every Wrol Role lmao.......Very fond of jeremy, and also christine, and bmc just has really enjoyable and interesting characters all over the place. and of course, here i am, Extremely #about winston quantbillions as another certified fave rave, really. call it classic!!!

[[answered both 23 and 31 prior, actually.....words were typed....]]

35)a random memory you remember with strange clarity?

tough one because lol a fair amount of “you recorded this memory in a fair amount of detail” is due to increased levels of unpleasantness / stress / discomfort, and if it’s also “i remember this b/c it was Nice” then i wouldn’t call that Strange clarity lol, and Random Memory like “just pull one up from the ol memory bank” is like, god, i wish it were that simple........but give me a min.

oh yeah i had a High Time of it when pokemon go came out (only pokemonn game i have ever played lol) coz there was like, this stretch of Landmarks stops that started at this garden and went along this waterfront / connected park forrr maybe like a half mile stretch? ideal territory and people would actually like, come from out of town to partake in it lol. and i’d Download podcast eps on my phone from my work’s wifi and just like, in the evening listen to that or music and just like, walk and do this shit. i had like five or six gyaradoses at one point cuz i guess the riverside nature of it meant they wanted to throw all these magikarp at you (there Were carp, also! one of the parks had a koi pond.) and like, there were just all these people around doing it along with you, even that late at night and in the early AM hours, so it was fairly social even if u weren’t there with a group or talking with anyone (though there was Camaraderie like, oh hey just so you guys know, there is a ____ over by the boat.) and it was just an interesting Walk with several things to look at and routes to take. and one time in a weird Dead Of Night time like 1am there was this like, smallish cruise ship docked that actually Set Off. and like, a bunch of us randos were just standing there and watching this unfold. this isn’t a very good Clear Random Memory but if i tried to think of a good one, god only knows how long it’d take me lol

40)an important personal revelation?

oh jeez this has really been a decade with lots of the unfortunate combo of “stuff that is a bummer but also boring” lol.......a benefit of getting to spend more time than not Away From The Parents’ House was like, oh sweet, having this perspective for long enough finally leads me to the conclusion of why i hate this......B/c It Is Bad. oh yeah and then there was also conclusively figuring out early in the decade like oh right, i’m trans, that makes sense.......other layers of Gayassedness like oh, more specifically i’m nonbinary, oh yeah and like, i’m not straight, call that queer and/or bi and/or also Gay......bein grey ace like a champ, and aromantic like, oh yeah i’m not like, fucking up at being a person somehow and Letting People Down by not wanting to date them (i mean besides rando cishet men. they can be let down regardless).....and just like, this ongoing process of getting the space to b figuring out myself and what i like For myself in alll kinds of ways....even up till now with the “oh yeah ive been a theatre gay all my life lmaooo” bit that’s like, totally obvious but just like, i didn’t much have the reason to even look at the would-be obvious stuff from the right perspex till now. and it’s pretty fun to realize a Lifelong Area Of Big Interest like that, cuz those sorts of things can feel elusive. and then also unfortunately a lot of the decade has involved like, “oh my self-esteem is so fucked that it’s circling back around and i’m appreciating and valuing myself and that i deserve decent treatment and Not bad shit,” which was a crappy process obviously lol but it was nice when i did start to get there, and making further progress on that front. im not dead certain when i was like “hmm...am autistic” b/c that was definitely a really ongoing process of figuring that out lol, but when / as i did it’s definitely a series of “oh hahaha this is why i’m like This or why i do This or feel like This about This!!” and it’s really easy to learn a totally Brand New Thing all the time abt bein autistic where it’s like Oh #Me!! coz yknow. the info By and For autistic ppl is not always widely available and known of. love that for us

#thank u!!! and thanks for the End Of Decade Ask Meme in the first place lol #cockbiteproductions

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alivingfire · 7 years ago

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Ohmygod I love podcasts!!! Can you rec me some? It's hard to find good ones sometimes.

YES! I CAN!

i’ve been knee deep in podcasts for about three months now, and i have, apparently, wide and varying interests, so i’ll put a little descriptor of each. also, i listen to podcasts on the Stitcher app, but i think all of these are on itunes if you prefer that, and i linked the websites if you want more info.

DARK STUFF

my favorite murder - this is 100% my favorite podcast now, but the first time i listened to it, i had to switch it off. start from the newest episodes, get a feel for it, and then you can go back and start at episode one, which is still interesting but before the hosts really find their footing. basically, karen and georgia are two friends who love true crime, so they talk about their favorite weird murders and mysteries. it’s dark, but it’s also really funny (they’re both comedians) and i think they learned to really strike a balance between jokes and the serious stuff. they’re also super feminist – their sign-off at the end of each episode is “stay sexy, don’t get murdered.”

someone knows something - canadian investigative journalist david ridgen tackles unsolved mysteries, one story per season. if you like documentaries, you’ll like how this podcast is set up. ridgen interviews witnesses, friends, families, police officers – basically everyone around the cases he’s looking into. it unfolds like a story and you really feel like you’re right in the middle of it. you don’t have to start at season one, but definitely start at episode one of whichever season you pick, because these are episodic and won’t make sense if you go backwards.

lore - this podcast is SO GOOD, and it’s actually just been turned into a short miniseries on amazon prime that is incredibly creepy and well done. lore is written by a horror author, aaron mahnke, who takes you through the scariest stories and legends, and how they came to be part of our world. the first episode is about vampires, and it legitimately has such a twist ending that i screamed. if you like spooky, mythology and legend and history-based stuff, this is the best.

LEARN STUFF

literature and history - think about your favorite dorky teacher who makes ridiculous jokes and is so. genuine about learning and teaching that you get interested in the subject because he’s so interested in the subject. now imagine that guy was a harvard professor who totally knows his shit and he starts a podcast. starting from the beginning of history, this guy takes you through the pieces of writing that have changed the world. he’s super soothing and i’ve already read a couple of books he recommended. definitely start at episode one for this one, chronology is important and he builds on each episode.

no such thing as a fish - if you like dry british humor and trivia, this is the one you’ll want. the writers of the super famous british panel show QI (the show stephen fry hosted) talk about their favorite random facts that they discovered and researched that week. super funny, and you’re still learning.

good night stories for rebel girls - if you are a strong woman or love strong women or want to someday be a strong woman, listen to this podcast. this is still relatively new, but the format is amazing: the writers and hosts turned the stories of real women throughout history into fairytales. incredibly inspiring, and you get to learn about awesome women you might have only vaguely heard of.

nancy - the best lgbtq podcast you could ask for. lgbtq people, stories, histories, pop culture, and interviews that will absolutely have you bawling. this is an NPR podcast, so it’s interview-heavy, but the subjects are handled well and there’s no queer tragedy here, it’s all very hopeful and realistic without being pessimistic.

ENTERTAINMENT STUFF

ID10T - this used to be called nerdist, and it’s hosted by chris hardwick, the guy who used to host @midnight on comedy central. basically, hardwick and either his cohosts or a famous person – as of this post, the last guest was antonio banderas – talk about ~~nerd things of the week: movies, comics, video games, tv shows, etc. etc. it’s basically just pop culture, at this point (because video games aren’t just for nerds anymore, kiddos), but what’s fun about it is that hardwick is incredibly unapologetic about absolutely loving the things he loves. it’s more fun to listen to this guy geek out about stuff than listening to other people find ways to criticize the things you love, i promise.

gilmore guys - pretty much what it says on the tin - two guys watch gilmore girls and talk about each episode. you’re probably wondering why you would want to listen to some random guys talking about a show you (presumably) love, but they’re really careful to stay away from anything mansplain-y or judgmental. one of the guys, kevin, is a huge gilmore girls fan, and the other host, demi, is watching for the first time, so it’s interesting to hear their discussions, especially regarding race, homophobia, and a lot of other issues that the the show writers tiptoe around. definitely don’t start at season one for this show – it’s super rough and there’s even a little minute-long intro on the very first episode that says so. start at about season three, there’s not a lot you’ll miss and they’ve got a rhythm down by that point.

STRAIGHT UP STORIES

welcome to night vale - if you’ve been anywhere near podcasts or, tbh, tumblr, for the last few years, you’re probably at least slightly aware of WTNV. in all honesty, it lives up to the hype. it’s not scary so much as unsettling, very southwest gothic and supernatural. WNTV is the story of a strange town in the middle of the desert, told to you by cecil, the town’s local radio broadcaster. cecil tells you all about what’s going on in night vale, from the shadowy city council who sends monsters after people they disagree with, to the radio station’s cat floating in the bathroom, to old woman josie’s angels that hang out in her house. it’s interesting because, underneath all the unsettling creepiness, it’s super feminist, super pro-lgbtq rights, and super anti-authority/anti-establishment. if nothing else, cecil’s voice is one of the most soothing of all the podcast voices, and the quality of the writing and acting is superb from episode one.

wooden overcoats - hands down one of the funniest dramedies i’ve ever seen or listened to. wooden overcoats is the story of a tiny british island, where brother and sister rudyard and antigone funn run the island’s only funeral home, at least until a guy named eric chapman moves his own funeral home in right across the street and ruins everything for them. everyone, from the mayor down to antigone herself, falls head over heels for chapman, and rudyard has to find a way to keep the family business running even though he’s not very good at his job and would prefer to do as little as possible. the voice acting is SUPERB, and i genuinely mean it’s hilarious, with lots of gallows humor and funny timing.

the penumbra podcast - the penumbra is a hotel in the middle of nowhere, and every person staying there has a story. some of the stories are one-offs, and some of them, like the story of juno steel, space private eye, are recurring. it’s very old-timey radio style, lots of noir monologues and humphrey bogart-esque one-liners. some of the early episodes are rough, but they’ve actually gone back and re-recorded the juno steel ones, so they’ll be the best to start with.

the bright sessions - do you like superheroes? do you like the dark side of superhero stories, where people with powers have to deal with being different and strange and emotional all while trying not to accidentally time travel or read someone else’s mind? this one’s for you. the bright sessions are therapy sessions between dr. bright and her patients, who are atypicals, or, basically, superheroes without the spandex. dr. bright helps her patients work on controlling their powers, all while a shady secret government organization watches overhead. you’ll want to start from episode one on this story, but you’ll probably immediately have a favorite patient.

the bridge - another not so creepy, but more unsettling podcast. set in a slightly-different alternate universe where there’s a hundreds-of-miles-long bridge that stretches across the atlantic ocean from the united states to europe, you join a bored traffic reporter as she tells stories from other watch towers and stations along the bridge, which, after decades of use, is mostly abandoned. all the while, creepy stuff starts happening on her watch, and she and the other bridge employees have to figure out if they’re really in danger, or if they’ve been at sea too long.

the truth - a lot like the penumbra podcast, the truth is a collection of short stories, acted out like actual movies. the first one caught and hooked me – what would’ve happened if apollo 11 didn’t land on the moon, and instead became the first space tragedy? the stories are (again, i have a pattern) dark but funny, and they’re incredibly creative.

PODCASTS I HAVEN’T STARTED, BUT THAT ARE ON MY LIST:

you must remember this - classic stories from the classic hollywood era, from marilyn monroe to charles manson and a lot more early stars we’ve completely forgotten about.

wolf 359 - stories set in a space station floating out in the middle of nowhere, the crew of wolf 359 search for alien life and try not to die lightyears away from home.

alice isn’t dead - made by the creators of welcome to night vale, so i’m sure this is good. alice is a truck driver who has to road trip around the country (and beyond) to find her missing wife.

the podcast history of our world - a lot like literature & history, this guy is just so excited to teach that he makes you excited to learn. he’s also really good about covering underrepresented people, which is more interesting than learning yet again about history from the side of colonizers.

EOS 10 - i have at least listed to the first episode of this, so i can confirm what everyone says: this is basically the show scrubs, set in space. a lot of doctors who think they know what they’re doing but are really on their own with no clue what to do.

heaven’s gate - more true crime! heaven’s gate was a cult that committed mass suicide in 1997. the host dives into the lives of the cult members to prove that anyone could’ve been caught up in the story.

if anyone has any recs, i’m happy to add to my list!

#anonymous #rachel talks #podcasts

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dashboarddiaries · 1 year ago

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For bonus clips, ad-free episodes, and more, become a patron at atypicalartists.co/support.

Lauren: ... like some kind of Tumblr stock exchange where you’re betting on the movements and I-

Cher: Like, with the fandom, oh my god-

Lauren: With the fan list!

Cher: Yeah, like you can bet who is going to go up and down every week.

Lauren: You get extra points if you say I think this is going to go up by this number of points because you always have the plus number, minus number.

Cher: Yes.

Lauren: Obviously we could not do this for money because that is illegal I’m pretty sure! (laughs)

Cher: But for some ...

Lauren: There’s something here.

Cher: There really is something here. I am very excited about this.

[intro music]

The only problem is it does require numbers ...

[intro music continues]

Cher: Hello, Fandom Investors! I’m Cher McAnelly, Head of Entertainment at Tumblr. And multi series, multi season, multi fandom member ... or multi fandom investor?

Lauren: And I’m Lauren Shippen, Professional Writer, who is still seeing massive returns from fandom’s that I invested in 20 years ago.

Cher: Great one.

Lauren: Thank you!

Cher: And this is Dashboard Diaries, a podcast for you – the folks who are in this internet bunker [stock market] with us.

Lauren: Ohhhhhh! I love it!

Cher: Ohhh! ... We talk about what’s going on in our favorite hell site, get into what we like to call “tumbl-lore,” do fandom deep dives [metrics!], and share the times when we’ve gone feral over a new ship [stock].

Lauren: I love it. The theme is coalescing.

Cher: Yeah. With that, what has your last month on Tumblr been like? What have you really been investing in this month? What trends are you seeing?

Lauren: Yeah. You know? I sort of put my time and finances into a couple of new fandom’s. Some of which are a little bit older. So, I think I maybe mentioned this last month but I did start watching Black Sails. And it just grew richer and richer as the show went on and I finished it. And then went on a huge Tumblr tag dive and re-blogged a bunch of stuff and just ... I love how active the fandom still is and that’s something we’re going to talk about a little later. And then I am currently beating the drum of a little known show in sort of the Tumblr eco system – something that not a lot of people have invested in but that I love – which is Evil the CBS/Paramount+ show ... that I think people are really sleeping on.

It is A) genuinely scary and I feel like there are a lot of horror fans on Tumblr who would enjoy Evil. But then also it just got this great trio at the center. It’s really clever and funny. And emotional. The main character, Kristen, is a truly unhinged, insane, wonderful woman. I love her so much. She is simultaneously the Scully – skeptical and very grounded and also completely bat shit bonkers. And I love her for that.

I was very happy to see, not only are there some people making gif sets, which I was very appreciative of, but somebody ships my little ship ... which is Kristen and Ben, who are sort of best friends in the show and there’s definitely nothing romantic between them but I think they should be together – and there’s at least one other Tumblr user who thinks that they should be together. I feel very taking into the warm embrace of that person’s gif set tags.

Yeah, that’s kind of been my main thing over the last month. And then of course the finale of 911, a little bit of Furiosa here but it’s mainly been Black Sails and Evil. How about you, Cher? What has been rising in your estimate over the last month?

Cher: Well, the last month has seen just a huge ... it’s been a really, really big month on the ‘ton market, the Bridgerton market that is, on ‘Ton’blr as they’re saying. (laughter) And I’ve also been investing a lot of time both on Tumblr and just in general on Bridgerton because we had the Bridgerton Answer Time. Which we recorded I think a few days after we recorded our last episode. I don’t know if we’ve talked about it yet but it was so much fun. I got to interview Nicola Coughlan. And I also got to interview Jessica Madsen and Hannah Dodd and it was ... they were lovely and just incredible and I lost my mind. I actually opened the interview with Nicola by saying, “Hi, I’m so excited to talk about season three of Derry Girls.

(laughter)

So, started off really strong there! But it was-

Lauren: I’m sure she loved that. Derry Girls is such a great show.

Cher: Yeah, I agree. I also love the crossovers. I don’t know if you’ve seen the crossovers of Nicola doing the, “I really burn fer you Collin. I burn fer ya.” (laughter)

Lauren: It’s so good.

Cher: It’s incredible. An icon, a legend, it was the best experience ever and I also have so many thoughts and feelings about the new season. Definitely I’m assuming we’ll talk about it during this episode and maybe even ... I don’t know how long it will take for the stock to go down but I think the stock is relay just continually rising at the moment in my opinion. And then in addition to that, just a couple of other things.

Young the Giant, which is a band I’ve really liked for a long time, they launched a tour diary on Tumblr which is super exciting. So, their tour just started and they’re touring with Cage the Elephant. And then I can’t remember, I think I mentioned in a previous episode when we did the interview with the cast of Dead Boy Detectives the Caitlin Riley and Max Jenkins spontaneously read some Goncharov fan fic, speck script, or a scene from Goncharov written by a community member. Just happened because we were doing a segment at the end where we just showed them Tumblr posts and had the cast kind of reenact them. Some were about the show and some weren’t. So, I showed the Goncharov poster and I was like, “What is this movie about?” And it ended up ... I think it was Caitlin Riley who said, “Should we read a scene?” And so they read a scene from it and we posted it on Tumblr. But we posted the scene without context and that was a mistake.

Lauren: Oh no. Why?

Cher: So, there were a ton of community replies being like ... “They couldn’t even learn the lines. They didn’t cast this as they should have. Obviously everyone knows this scene is between two men.” It was between Audrey and Goncharov.

Lauren: Got you.

Cher: I was like so distraught because I was so excited about this but then because I didn’t do the opening where they were like, “Hey, should we just do a scene from it?” It was just random. People thought that Netflix was making a Goncharov movie. It was ... oh my god.

Lauren: Oh my god! (laughs)

Cher: It was ... Context is SO key.

Lauren: SO key.

Cher: So, that was ... I feel so bad because I feel like ... you know when you’re like, “I wish I could explain this?” But you can’t. So, anyway, I posted the context video but it was too late, Lauren. But anyway ...

Lauren: I’m so sorry.

Cher: I just want to set the record straight.

Lauren: Yeah, clear the air.

Cher: So, anyway, yeah, just want to clear the air about the Gonch. I just want to comment on the Goncharov controversy, on the Gonch Contr and say that it was a spontaneous interview moment. It definitely wasn’t planned. There is no Goncharov movie being made. It was a bit. And so sorry for any confusion. I have learned that context is so key and I will be keeping that in mind for the future.

Lauren: Yeah. Oh man, you never know what out of context people are going to run away with, right? Posting on the internet is so risky.

Cher: It’s SO risky. And it’s totally understandable. If I saw this thing come across my feed, posted on the ... I’d be like, oh, maybe they are making a Goncharov movie. You don’t know. So, I’ve learned about the importance of including context not only in the caption but also in the video itself.

Lauren: There you go.

Cher: The more you know. Today I learned. This month I learned.

And then finally, one other thing that I kind of have discovered on Tumblr ... I feel like it’s been a thing for a while but I’ve really been enjoying it and it doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of people really following the tag – is Dashboard Simulators. Have you seen these?

Lauren: YES. I didn’t realize that there’s a whole tag for it but I am obsessed with this genre of posts.

Cher: Oh my god. I am having so much fun with this.

Lauren: For our audience, explain what it is.

Cher: So, Dashboard Simulators are essentially using the ability to include up to 32 images in a Tumblr post so due to this fun feature people are essentially putting together a bunch of screenshots of kind of fake ... creating fake posts essentially in world for things like Lord of the Rings or Cobra Kai, or even I saw Cat Dashboard Simulator. And it’s essentially as you’re scrolling through this post it should feel like the experience of scrolling through the dashboard in the world of this fandom or in the world of cats. And they are so funny and so much fun. And so intricate.

Just the time and effort involved – I am obsessed. Definitely one of my new favorite Tumblr trends, post types. It kind of comes out of web weaving in a way but more like light meme-y kind of vibes. But yeah, I’ve been having a lot of fun with Dashboard Simulators. And I’m pretty sure completely coincidentally ... I submitted the pitch for Bridgerton ages ago. We essentially did a Dashboard Simulator for Bridgerton with Nicola Coughlin – we did a segment called “Scrolling Ton’blr” and essentially I just curated a bunch of community Tumblr posts, set it up to screen record, and then Nicola scrolled through and talked about each post as she went through.

So, I love how perfectly that just ended up aligning! Yeah, it was super fun.

So, anyway ...

Lauren: Yeah. The thing I really love about it is there was this post, god, I don’t know, ten years ago or something. I remember seeing it back when the old re-blog format was the way it was where if there were too many re-blogs you could barely read the initial post or whatever. And it was about, man, discourse in a world in which magical creatures were real would be so insufferable. And then it was everybody sort of role playing along and re-blogging about [selky 00:11:11] rights and vampire discrimination, sort of this parody of really sort of extreme tone policing but in a world in which fairies were real. Right?

The Dashboard Simulator trend is so much in that spirit to me. It’s the ultimate yes/and but it’s like just that extra bit of creativity of like I’m going to go and sort of come up with fake Tumblr names. I don’t know how people are building these images, right?

Cher: Oh my gosh. Are they creating all of these accounts and drafting all these posts and posting them privately and screen-shotting them? And adding them all together?

Lauren: I hadn’t thought about that. ‘Cause I think when I first saw this trend appear maybe a year ago I do think it’s kicked up a lot more but it was sort of simmering for a while. People initially started in a text format, right? And sort of people coming up just with fake names and sort of putting emojis for the avatars and things like that. And it’s sort of evolved into this, yes, screen shot thing. Which is so ...

Cher: I haven’t even seen those initial posts. I want to see some of those OG ...

Lauren: I’ll have to go and dig some up. There was one ... this may have been in a screen shot format but there was one that was ... Ugh, I’m going to mis-remember what it was, but it was Dashboard Simulator of everything that’s inside my fridge. (laughs) Or no, it wasn’t that! It was utensils. It was sort of like utensil discourse. I love that, right!?

Cher: Incredible.

Lauren: That’s just so-

Cher: I really want to see what the utensil discourse is.

Lauren: Right!?

Cher: That sounds amazing!

Lauren: Yeah, I’m going to have to dig that up in my archive.

[guitar riff]

Cher: And with that, our next segment is Dashboard Confessionals. So, what post from your archives do you have this week?

Lauren: I did bring two. They’re from more recent years actually. I went back to sort of 2014, 2015 in June and in June of every year I was just sort of re-blogging Hannibal posts and that’s just ... Oh, that’s something I forgot to mention – my month on Tumblr was the ten year anniversary of Mizumono the Season Two finale which is one of the greatest episodes of television of all time. But yeah. So, June is a very Hannibal month for me so there wasn’t a lot of interesting stuff from earlier years.

I brought something from 2019, which is just a gif set of Pikachu dancing from Detective Pikachu. It’s like this little ‘80s workout video. And I just ... (laughs) ... I want to cry just looking at it now. I have debilitating cute aggression for this little animated Pikachu.

Cher: He’s just a little guy!

Lauren: He’s just a little guy. I already have pretty severe cute aggression when it comes to animals. But there is something about the way that the artist built this little creature. We went to go see Detective Pikachu because I’m not a Pokémon person but my partner is. And the whole time I was like, “I am in PAIN.”

Cher: I am overwhelmed.

Lauren: There’s something about this little creature that is hooking into the back of my brain and I’m tearing up literally right now just looking at this little ... his little face and his little hands! So, I just want to share that because it brings me a lot of joy and also anguish.

(laughter)

Cher: As all the best things should.

Lauren: Exactly!

Cher: We’ll definitely circle back to that with your feels corner because I feel like that ties in very well. And I also completely agree with you. There’s something viscerally adorable about it.

Lauren: He’s SO cute.

Cher: Right!? It’s like from, what was it? Not Minions. Uh ...

Lauren: Despicable Me.

Cher: Despicable Me.

Lauren/Cher: “It’s so fluffy I’m going to die!”

Cher: Exactly that. I’m losing my entire mind right now. Yeah. Totally get that. Definitely ... great posted bookmark for a serotonin boost or dopamine boost. I never know what the difference is.

Lauren: Whatever the good one is.

Cher: Whatever the good one is. Yeah. Whatever the one we want is. Stay tuned for our science podcast or psychology podcast coming soon in addition to our stock podcast.

Lauren: So, the second post I brought was from 2020. This post is actually from 2016 but I re-blogged it in 2020. It’s just a great text post from user: gendzl (I don’t know how to pronounce your blog name. I’m so sorry!) But they write, “Tumblr is such a bizarre kind of social interaction. Like, the rules are so different here. I once unfollowed someone because they said prime numbers were ugly.” (laughs) That just really makes me laugh! “Because they said prime numbers were ugly and that was simply the last straw for me. Imagine hanging out with a friend and getting up from the table and never talking to them again because they told you they hated prime numbers? That’s what I did.”

(laughter)

The way that this is written is so funny. The fact that it’s for the reason of prime numbers is so funny. And also like, yeah, this is true. This is the beauty of the eco system of Tumblr, right? And the fact that despite it being a front facing social media where people can follow you and stuff unless you make your Tumblr private, it is sort of a more private space than a lot of other social media that you can just unfollow someone because they said that prime numbers were ugly. And what beautiful freedom that is!

Cher: Absolutely. You shouldn’t have that negativity on your dashboard if you don’t want it.

Lauren: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Cher: Also, is that a Tumblr as real life simulator of if someone said that in real life and you’re like, “unfollow.”

Lauren: Yes! Exactly.

Cher: Blocked and unfollowed. (laughs)

Lauren: How about you, Cher? What do you have from your archives?

Cher: I have two posts that I re-blogged in the same month within about eight days of each other in 2018. The first one is a gif set from Parks and Rec, another great multi season fandom show. It is from the episode where they do the model UN or something. And it’s a four gif set. The first one is Adam Scott saying, “It’s a white flag and you may as well start waving it right now, Leslie.” And then Leslie Knope saying, “The only thing I will be waving is your decapitated head on a stick in front of your weeping mother!”

(laughter)

And then a gif that cuts to Chris Pratt with a kind of shocked face and then cuts to Ben and says, “Good lord.” Just a really classic ... makes me want to re-watch the show ... love Parks and Rec. I apparently love it so much ... even though this is pretty intense gif set of all rather pleasant moments in the show, I love it so much that I apparently just go on over to the second re-blog from eight days later, from a different account by the way ... same exact gif set. (laughs)

Lauren: Incredible. That is SO good. I love that. I mean, it’s a great moment in the show. A great gif set. And clearly it was speaking to you in June of 2018 for some deep reason.

Cher: It resonated. Yeah.

Lauren: That’s amazing.

Cher: Oh my gosh. Great show. And so speaking of shows and fandom’s, our main segment for the week: long seasons, long series, long fandom’s –

[game show trill]

I’m so excited to talk about all of the shows on Tumblr that have sustaining fandom’s which as we know and as we have talked about are so many, I don’t even know how we’re going to fit it in, but we’re going to.

Lauren: So yeah. I don’t know how much of our initial pre intro conversation that I’ll end up including in the edit, so some of the stock jokes maybe haven’t landed but Cher and I were talking sort of about fandom stocks and betting on rising and falling fandom’s which we might do a thing about in a future episode. But then it did sort of turn into this idea of like fandom’s are this thing that you invest it. And fandom’s thrive the most when you are actively investing in them over a long period of time and when you see more of a return the more you invest, right? I don’t understand how stocks work, but ...

Cher: It sounds like you do based on what you’re saying right now. Tell me who do invest in, because I ... that sounds very accurate. (laughs)

Lauren: But one of the things that we were talking about because we were texting about Bridgerton and this is something that I’ve seen a lot sort of in fandom discussions over the last several years and something I think about a lot, which is these shorter seasons and shorter season orders and also seasons sort of taking place a year, 18 months apart has really changed the fandom landscape in certain ways. And then we see the way that certain fandom’s really flourish and thrive and to me there’s something so interesting about the fact that the trending fandom’s, or the fandom’s that end up on the fandom metrics list are things like Bridgerton, which obviously is a great show but also sort of has the comfort of investing in it because it is a Shondaland show. And her shows run for a very, very long time. So, there’s a certain amount of promise there.

Also, it’s based on a book series and the book series has a lot of books. And so there’s the sense of safety and investing in Bridgerton because it is going to have longevity. And then of course we also ... and I’ve talked a lot about this show on here – 911, right? It has been renewed for its eighth season. Most of the seasons with the exception of the COVID season and this most recent season because it changed networks, and also the strike, too, I think actually was probably a much bigger influence – all the other seasons are 18 episodes. Right? Which we don’t see a lot of anymore.

So, I was just really intrigued by this idea of ... I think that emotionally we all have this sense of wanting just more of the things that we love. That’s a very easy thing to want. If you love a show you want it to be 22 episodes a season, you want the seasons to have two month hiatuses and that’s it. But I also do think that there’s something to be said for it being a good business decision for networks and studios to invest in lots of seasons or longer seasons or faster seasons or whatever it is. And yeah. So, that’s kind of ... as we were talking about Bridgerton and pitching to Cher sort of talking about this larger thing because it seems like Bridgerton has sort of taken over Tumblr over the last ...

Cher: Yeah.

Lauren: And it was the same as part one. When part one came out two months ago or whatever. And it’s also taken over Netflix’s homepage. So, I guess I’m curious from your perspective, what do you think are the things that are making Bridgerton successful and do you agree that longer seasons ... more season longevity because obviously the seasons themselves are sort of short is contributing to that at all.

That was a very long rambling thing. (laughs)

Cher: No, no. I think that perfectly encapsulates kind of the topic of the episode and why shows that you can kind of have that trust in that they will be consistent. The NASDAQ’s and things of the fandom market I guess. Even though I think NASDAQ is a stock ... it’s a thing comprised of multiple stocks. I don’t know. Anyway ... doing our best! (laughter) But no, I absolutely agree and I think that there’s kind of a give and take. I know that having longer seasons means often lower quality seasons because writers can only come up with so many ideas, especially when they’re trying to churn things out really quickly it can end up in season inflation where perhaps you get a lot of episodes but there’s not really a lot of substance or impact or maybe ...

But I also kind of don’t mind a filler episode every so often. I like getting those in-depth background stories and I think Tumblr is very much the same. I mean, obviously to the extent that Tumblr creates entire universes and new story lines out of the shows and titles and characters and fandom’s that they’re the most invested in with fan art and fan fic and beyond. I think that there’s really something to be said about both the shows where every single scene is super important and pivotal to the plot, I feel like maybe Succession is a good example of that or even maybe the Game of Thrones, until that final season which we pretend doesn’t exist. Again, that it was so ... I’m trying to remember how long Game of Thrones seasons were. The final season was seven episodes I think ... or six?

Lauren: I didn’t watch Game of Thrones, so ...

Cher: There were a lot of seasons, the episodes were long but not many episodes per season, which I think is pretty consistent with HBO shows. But really jam packed with things. But I also, yeah, definitely think there’s something to be said about ... every episode and every story line doesn’t need to be kind of pushing the story forward in some kind of big impactful way. And I think that’s why procedurals do so well. And you can have so much fun and kind of play around with so many different plots. Like 911. Like Supernatural. And like Gray’s Anatomy, which is a show that I ... it has a pretty small fandom on Tumblr. There’s like 43K followers on the tag. I don’t even follow along on Gray’s Anatomy on Tumblr. I kind of separate, I don’t know, that show from I guess my fandom engagement, even though I have been watching it since I was a teenager and refuse to stop. Because I’ve invested 20 seasons at this point. I am not going to stop watching now. I will see this show out into the end because I put all this time in.

But anyway, sorry ... I feel like I’ve gone beyond the point there. The question that you asked is what about Bridgerton is it that you think ... wow, I went so far off the [crosstalk 00:24:54] into Gray’s Anatomy. I think that the fact that Bridgerton has a lot of books and that we kind of know A) the Shondaland aspect, B) the fact that I’m pretty sure the contract we know is signed for at least two to three more seasons – you have that safety and security in investing the time and the effort into becoming a part of and talking about the fandom because, yeah, you know that the show is going to continue – whereas a lot of the time ... and as we’ve seen, oftentimes with a lot of shows that are cancelled after one and two seasons and people get really excited and dedicated to this fandom only for it to just completely drop sometimes on a cliffhanger. And that I feel like people definitely get burned before, they lose their investment and they’re like, “What communities can I invest in? What shows can I invest in that have a better ROI?” That’s Return On Investment for any non-stock experts out there. (laughter)

Yeah, I think having that safety and security definitely means that you’re a little more likely I think to see a dedicated fandom around something. I think that may also be why we see dedicated fandom’s around shows that are no longer on the air but have a lot of content because there’s so much to talk about and continue discovering. Supernatural has never dropped out of fandom rankings. Merlin started becoming popular after it was no longer on the air. But there’s five seasons of Merlin. So, there’s just so much subject matter to dive into for the community. I feel like there’s always new opportunities for discourse and I think that is one of the biggest kind of motivators in getting involved in a fandom. I don’t know where I was going with the rest of that.

Lauren: I think you’re absolutely right. I think, too, that yeah what you were saying about sometimes you do get seasons that are a little bit too long. And actually this is something that I remember really feeling when Netflix was first starting to make its own original content. Where all of a sudden all of these writers who were usually trapped with 22 minute episodes or 44 minute episodes because ... for those of you who maybe are ... I mean, god, you could be like in your late teens and not have really grown up with network television, which is insane. But it’s like there were very strict rules for how long an episode of television can be. I think that when some of those people were given freedom the episodes ended up being kind of bloated and badly paced and I think it took everybody a little while to figure it out. But of course also to your point, HBO has always been doing that. AMC was always doing that. And their episodes were like 52 minutes or whatever.

Obviously so much of this is around what is right for the story. You mentioned Succession. I think that’s a great example. Thinking about The Bear, too, right? I know that they filmed season two and three at the same time and they think that maybe they’re probably just going to do one more season after that. And that will be it. And I think having a plan like that and going into it and having a very tight story that you’re telling in a very specific way is amazing. I think those things can still foster immense amount of fandom interaction and cultural zeitgeist-I-ness and all that kind of stuff.

I do think that we are losing something in having sort of everything be these eight episode, one season shows. And in things being cancelled before they can really thrive. A show that I think about ... every three weeks ... is Willow. And just the further that I get from having watched that show the more mad I am that it was cancelled. There was so much in there that to me the Tumblr fandom was never given a chance to really dig their teeth into. And even worse than it not being renewed is the fact that it just doesn’t exist ... you can’t watch it on Disney+ anymore!

Cher: Yeah, and that’s such a loss!

Lauren: Yeah! And so there’s no way to then bring in new fans from that whereas even when I was a teenager there were things from earlier that were one season shows that had sort of cult followings like Freaks and Geeks. Right? Which launched the career of Jason Segall and Busy Phillips and all these amazing people and it was 12 episodes or something. And then Wonder Falls – Brian Fuller’s second show. There’s a young Lee Pace in Wonder Falls and he’s so ...

And I’m really straying from the point. And I guess I don’t necessarily have a wider point than just sort of complaining about the state of media. But I do feel like the fact that we look around and the things that are sort of most talked about, have the most excitement and activity around them are things like Bridgerton, which had an existing fandom, right? Things like Star Wars, Marvel, Dr. Who, Star Trek – stuff that’s been around for decades. And of course there are exceptions to this. I think that Sherlock is a very short show that had a really outsized impact. I think Hannibal II was only three seasons of 12 episodes each – still has a very active fandom. So, there certainly are exceptions. But Good Omens also! Very short seasons, very far apart, but huge impact.

Cher: Oh my gosh. Enormous. To the extent that they’re the biggest topic of the year. Despite again having so much less subject matter to dive into. I guess beyond of course the source material, which I think again ties into the established fandom and the impact of the established fandom. Yes, Good Omens, there’s only those two seasons so far but you can dive into other aspects of the Gaiman-verse and you also know that there’s a lot of crossovers within the Gaiman-verse. So, you can even lean into that in your exploration.

Yes, it’s just two seasons of Good Omens but like is there anything in other ... like in the Sandman, how Dead Boy Detectives was a spinoff of characters from the Sandman series. Things like that. Are there other things that you can kind of dig into? Or even like know you’ll like and have that kind of opportunity for crossover. And also the entire time you were talking I was just sitting there thinking about how Flea Bag is one of my favorite shows of all time and there is so little of it. And Phoebe Waller Bridge has said, “Maybe I’ll make another season when I’m in my fifties, when Flea Bag is 50.” Which I hope she does. That would be amazing.

But also the amount of times I have re-watched Flea Bag and just know that it makes me ... it’s an incredible show but I feel like I watch it like a movie.

Lauren: Right. And Flea Bag is also doing such a different thing, right? Because we all became such huge fan of Phoebe Waller Bridge and obviously hot priest and Andrew Scott and got another sort of boost in his career from that and now is having an incredible career. But I don’t know that I’ve ever engaged with the Flea Bag fandom, right?

Not everything needs to have a really active fandom, right? I think that some of the greatest art and stuff sort of exists as it exists. It’s like I’m a huge musical theater girl. I was watching the Tony’s last night and musical theater ... Stephen Sondheim has had an impact on my life and I consider myself in the Stephen Sondheim fandom. But each of his shows, it’s like three hours max. Actually I don’t even know that he personally had a three hour show. But that’s sort of the outside length of a musical. And not to say ... obviously there are musicals that have massive, massive fandom’s.

But yeah, I think that the sort of opportunity for people to discover something that in its first season maybe is unknown un-established – fresh and maybe still finding its footing. Right? I think that’s so big, too.

Cher: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Lauren: If you watch the first season of 911, I mean, there’s a lot of really fantastic stuff in the first season of 911 but just by the nature of Connie Britton only doing the first season, structurally the show is just very different in the first season than what it became. And the characters become so much richer and Kenneth Choi’s character, Chimney, is one of my favorite characters. Who he is in the first season is so different from who he becomes and it’s like you don’t get that chance if you don’t allow a show to sort of find its footing and work with the actors to also figure out what the actors are bringing to a role and how that can affect the characters. And I don’t really have a solution to this other than to just beg studios to give more chances to more things. And maybe spend less money on the first season so they can have a second season and all of that kind of stuff.

But I do think it’s interesting that in the top fandom’s we are seeing these things that are lengthy seasons or based off of source material or fandom’s that began almost 20 years ago, right? Like Supernatural began in 2005! We’re coming up on the 20th anniversary of Supernatural. That’s crazy‼

Cher: That is wild to think about. I want to unpack that later.

Lauren: We will never be free of it. It will always be a major fandom on Tumblr because you can’t ... there’s over 300 episodes. So few shows have crossed that threshold that of course ... Kirk and Spock fandom. I still see a Star Trek post on my dash once a week of the original series. And I don’t follow any Star Trek blogs. But the hold that that show, which also ran for like 100 seasons has on people is incredible.

Cher: I agree that it has so much to do with just the amount of source material and the fact that you feel like you can always rediscover things. I mean, the joy of re-watching a show or even starting a show that has so much source material already and knowing what you have to dive into, which reminds me, I need to get back into my watch through of Supernatural. So, we’ll add that to the next episode. But yeah, as you were talking I was thinking about how Parks and Rec for example ... season one was pretty rough. Even to the extent I didn’t watch the first season and people ... I think I started watching Parks and Rec around season three.

Lauren: Same.

Cher: I tried it, I tried to get into it, I love 30 Rock and other shows by SNL alum, I was hoping ... and someone said to me, if you really can’t get into it, try starting with the second season. And then go back and watch the first. And that’s what I did. I immediately fell in love with the show and all the characters.

Lauren: Same.

Cher: Yeah, I think you have to, as you said, give shows that space to find their footing and discover themselves. Especially when it’s brand new subject matter that isn’t based on anything, that doesn’t have all that source material to work off of and they’re literally creating the story out of thin air and kind of discovering it as they go along.

Lauren: Exactly. Yeah, Black Sails obviously has some source material, right, it is technically a prequel to Treasure Island. And involves also real historical figures as characters and a lot of what happens to the historical figures is based on facts and everything. But just in terms of, I mean, Parks and Rec is such a great example. I still have not seen the first season of Parks and Rec. I just never watched it. And that’s one of my most re-watched sitcoms and I’ve just never watched the first season because I think I tried a couple of episodes and I was like, this is not for me. But Black Sails, the first season, especially the pilot and even just the first few episodes is like very, “oh boy, this is a Starz show that has Michael Bay as the producer.” (laughs)

That is what’s happening here.

Cher: Buckle up. Yeah.

Lauren: Yeah, lots of gratuitous nudity and not to say there shouldn’t be nudity in shows. I actually have a whole rant about nudity and sex scenes and the discourse around that and how I’m such an advocate for sex positivity, all that kind of stuff, and I love the discourse around that. But also I think the thing that gets lost sometimes is the fact that there are real people on set who are doing this. And how safe is the set? And what are unions doing to protect people? And the answer as somebody who is a part of that union is – NOTHING ... until very, very recently.

That’s something I’m always thinking about when I’m watching something like the first season of Black Sails where it’s like a lot of, there’s lots of sex scenes where the women are naked and the men kind of ... you’re not seeing as much from them, or there’s sexual assault, whatever it is. And what’s crazy is that by the end of season four of Black Sails it’s become this exceptional story of love and power and identity and struggle that is genuinely like an incredibly effortlessly diverse cast of people. And what’s also crazy is when you watch the second season and the sort of reveal of the main character’s back story is revealed that is something that they thought about revealing in season one and then they just kept it for season two. And it changes everything. It changes everything that you think about the character, that you think you know about the world, and to think if they hadn’t gotten a season two, and they had decided to hold off writing it into season one because they’re like, it doesn’t fit in, and it wouldn’t have fit in. It would have been very jarring. But how great that they then had the opportunity to do it. Again, that’s a fandom that despite only having four seasons of ten episodes each, really has survived and has continued to thrive and I think now that it’s on Netflix will only get more and more fans. It’s a very long ... and I went on a huge tangent about on-set sex scenes ... (laughs) but ...

Cher: No, but I also agree with you and have ... I’m shocked ... Are intimacy coordinators now required in all sex scenes? Because I feel like that’s just an option, right and not?

Lauren: Yeah. So, can I go on a very ... I’ll try to keep this-

Cher: Please.

Lauren: Okay. There has been very interesting discourse over the last several years on Tumblr specifically about sex scenes in film and television. I think that a lot of the discourse is really healthy. It sort of came from a place of people being like, “There’s never a reason that you should have a sex scene in a movie.” Which if you don’t like that stuff, then don’t watch it, that’s fine. And then other people kind of coming and taking the other side of the argument which is the side of the argument that I agree with, which is like, no, if that’s an expression of the story ... there’s lots of reasons, even if it is just to titillate people. That’s also valid. It’s valid to feel titillated, right?

Cher: Yeah.

Lauren: I agree 1000% with all of that. If it’s something that the storyteller wants to do and all the actors are on board – great. However, I have voted “no” on the past two SAG contracts as a SAG actor because back in, oh god, 2019/2020 I want to say was our last TV contract that went up ... it did not require intimacy coordinators. And then on this contract obviously there were a lot of things with the AI and all of that kind of stuff. But I ultimately ended up voting “no” because once again SAG is not requiring intimacy coordinators. It is strongly encouraged.

The language around it was stronger but there should ... you have to have a stunt coordinator on set to do a stunt. There is safety. There’s OSHA laws. There’s union laws. There’s insurance stuff. And the fact that we don’t have that for ... and I say this as somebody who has done on stage nudity. I was [inaudible 00:40:42] Spring Awakening. I’ve done the on stage sex scene thing. I understand the environment around it and everything. And just until that is required, to me, I don’t ... I cannot watch a sex scene in any film or television show and not be thinking about that. Just because we know of the rampant abuse that occurs on sets.

Something that they have now required is closed sets, which is good because that means that not anybody can show up on filming on those days, right? Also, closed set frankly means fewer witnesses as well. You know? And it’s like I just ... there’s so much around it that, yeah, if a woman wants to get naked on screen – Nicola Coughlin talked about this with Bridgerton, right? And sort of really wanting to show a type of body that’s not seen in that context a lot. And absolutely. Love her for that. And I’m sure Bridgerton, given its content, has an intimacy coordinator. (laughs) I have no doubt.

And I think that a lot of those scenes really do add to the narrative but I am always thinking about what’s the environment and who is there? Especially if it’s an actor that’s not as established. Are they feeling pressured into it as a requirement of the role? Was this mentioned as a requirement of the role? Yeah. That is my little soap box. (laughs) And I will not vote “yes” for a SAG TV of Film contract until that’s required.

Cher: I mean, I couldn’t agree more. It’s absolutely shocking that with the amount of money that is put into all of these shows and all of these titles, that there is not a requirement for an intimacy coordinator. It can obviously be fit into the budget. It is not ... the fact that the language was changed to “strongly suggests” but not required is also, okay, you’re going to change the language but not go all the way? What’s even the point?

Lauren: What pushback are you getting and from where and why are you letting that pushback take place?

Cher: Because the pushback sounds pretty frigging nefarious to me.

Lauren: Exactly.

Cher: What would ever justify pushback on an intimacy coordinator?

Lauren: Yeah.

Cher: When all an intimacy coordinator does is make sure that the set is safe and consensual. Which is the key. Yeah. I mean, I have a lot of opinions. I feel like I really like the show Outlander and I have to skip the ... constant it feels sexual assault scenes. Those are not, that’s not what I ... I think that ... I don’t know. I have some opinions on whether that’s ever relevant to actually show or if it’s more traumatizing versus implied.

But yeah. Having an intimacy coordinator for consensual sex scenes is extremely important. I mean, it’s important tenfold for a non consensual sex scene.

Lauren: Yes. Yeah.

Cher: Because that can be so traumatic.

Lauren: Yeah, and I think the excuse for a little while was around the fact that there were just so few people who actually were trained for this job, right? I think that’s not quite the case anymore. But not only is it a way to make things safe and consensual and give somebody a person to go to if they feel unsafe who is not the director, right? But also the literal blocking of those things. Right? This is another reason why I can never sort of step outside of myself and watch sex scenes for what they are because I’m always just like, what was the blocking?

Cher: This is unrealistic ...

Lauren: Yeah. (laughter) Actually, there’s a funny anecdote about American Gods and then re-shooting an entire scene because Brian Fuller wasn’t on set the day that they did the Gin sex scene between the two men. And he watched the playback and was like, this is not how you have gay sex and they had to re-shoot the whole thing.

And yeah, there’s a whole queer aspect to this as well that needs to be talked about. But yeah, if the director is literally blocking a sex scene are they trained to do that? Most directors are not creating fight coordination for stunts, right? They’re not the ones literally choreographing those fights. They have people for that. So, it’s like why would they be then qualified to do a different kind of physicality? I could talk about this forever. I need to shut up!

Cher: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Noted. No, but I mean I think it’s so important to talk about it, to talk about it openly because I think one thing that ... because sex and intimacy can be an awkward topic or a hard topic to talk about whether it’s in film or just in general I think yeah it can contribute to people having trouble talking about it on set, people having trouble talking about the importance of this issue off set because people get kind of like uncomfortable and think is this appropriate or whatever it is. But no, as you said, there is an expert for every other aspect. They bring in cartographers and language experts and all of these different experts. There was a ... I did an interview recently where there was a snake wrangler on the set.

Lauren: Incredible. Yeah.

Cher: If they can have a snake wrangler, you can have a friggin intimacy coordinator. I feel like. Which one feels more important? Actually, the snake wrangler was to get the venomous snakes off their set so I think that would be very important. (laughter) Yeah. Super important. For different reasons. But anyway ...

(laughter)

Lauren: A perfect conclusion to this discussion.

Cher: I could not agree more.

[gentle music]

And to close, Lauren, what has you in your feels this week?

Lauren: Well, obviously union contracts – always.

Cher: Yes.

Lauren: I mean, yeah, I am in my feels once again about Merrily We Roll Along which I feel like I’ve mentioned several times on this show. But the Tony’s, as we’re recording this on June 17th, the Tony’s were last night. And yeah I watched them live. They’re basically the only award show that I watch anymore. And not only did Daniel Radcliffe get a Tony for his role in Merrily We Roll Along, which is a show that I have seen twice and sobbed at both times profusely, and I just love him, his speech was so sweet. I also saw him in How To Succeed in Business Without Really Trying ten years ago and he was fantastic in that as well. It’s been amazing to watch him grow.

But also Jonathan Groth got his first Tony. And when I said to my partner, “Oh my god, I’m so glad he finally got it.” My partner was like, “This is his first one!?” I’m like, “I KNOW.” It’s Jonathan Groth.

Cher: That is shocking. I had no idea.

Lauren: He has been nominated for everything he’s ever been in. Spring Awakening, Hamilton, etc. But he’s never actually won it. And his speech was just – it’s so clear that he’s had this thing written out since he was like 19 years old. And I also saw him in the previews of Spring Awakening back in 2005/2006 – I don’t remember exactly what year it was – and I just remember being so blown away. He was 20 years old or whatever. So blown away by the clarity of his voice. His gravitas even then. And granted I was 14 and so I was also like, oh my god, you’re so pretty. (laughs)

But I don’t know, there will always be a part of me ... it’s like I don’t necessarily have any fantasies about like giving an Oscar speech or an Emmy speech or anything like that. But anytime I watch the Tony’s there’s always going to be a little part of me that’s like, oh man, that’s the career path that I diverged from. I was originally on that path and then I decided not to sort of pursue it. And I don’t know, just seeing these wonderful people succeed is just ... I just got very emotional about it. So, that is what has me in my feels.

What about you, Cher?

Cher: Well, I honestly for kind of a similar reason but for a fictional character.

Lauren: Love it.

Cher: I am in my feels for Hacks.

Lauren: Oh yes!

Cher: And just ... I cried throughout this season. I love Hacks so much. I know we’ve talked about it multiple times and we’ve brought it up as ... I think I’ve brought it up for my Feels Corner every month for the last two months it’s been on the air. But the ending of this season and just the fact that Jean Smart – spoilers ahead – Jean Smart’s character ... God, Deborah Vance, how the fact that Deborah finally, finally got late night, finally got this thing that she’s been working towards and wanted her whole life. It just was so beautiful and it warmed my heart and I love this show. I also loved the drama at the end. I’m messy, I loved it. I actually think I said out loud, “Yes” when Ava kind of finally stood up for herself with Deborah. And even beyond stood up for herself. Kind of like gave Deborah a taste of her own medicine. I loved it. It was fantastic. I’m really, really excited for the next season. I love this show. And it makes me really happy.

Lauren: Same. Absolutely same.

Cher: And with that, I’m Cher McAnelly and you can find me at OverChers.Tumblr.com.

Lauren: And I’m Lauren Shippen, and you can find me at TheLaurenShippen.Tumblr.com.

Cher: This has been Dashboard Diaries. And ...

[outtro music]

Lauren: May your anons always be loving.

Cher: Your dash always refreshed.

Lauren: Your gifs always be loading.

Cher: And your ships always canon.

Lauren: May the fics you’re reading always be finished.

Cher: And the answers you seek always in the re-blogs.Lauren: Thanks for scrolling with us!

How do we build long lasting fandoms with short lasting TV seasons? How do you know when to invest in a story when it might be canceled the next day? Cher and Lauren discuss that and much more, including: the real problem with on-scree sex scenes, the Ton-blr, and the importance of snake wranglers.

Credits and transcript in our reblog. You can find transcripts for this, and every other episode, here.

Find the posts discussed in this episode in this tag!

#DD 39 #transcript

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topweeklyupdate · 7 years ago

Text

TØP Weekly(/Monthly) Update #52: I’m Gonna Jumpsuit Out a Window (6/30/18)

When all the cryptic weirdness surrounding dmaorg.info sprung up nearly two months ago, everyone was extremely hyped. So much content! So many theories! It really felt like hiatus was over.

There was just one problem: there were no new songs licensed or registered under the band’s name, which meant nothing was coming out. Rabid music fans have known for years that there is truly no such thing as a “surprise” music release: for legal reasons, almost all song titles show up on online registries several days, if not weeks, before they are made available to the public. And, indeed, after the initial wave of teases wrapped up, the Clique returned to a quasi-hiatus state, punctuated only by the occasional addition to the Dema lore.

This Thursday, June 28, that all changed. Let’s talk about it.

This Week’s TØPics:

Finally, Some Good F*cking Food: Two New Song Titles Registered

Dema Recap: Cheetahs and Trenches and Cryptic Nonsense, Oh My!

One Year Later: What Do We Really Know About This Hiatus?

Editorial: When the Discourse Gets Too Much (and When It’s Just What We Need)

Major News and Announcements:

In the biggest piece of real news that we’ve received since the hiatus, two new song titles have been registered on the PPL music licensing database: “Nico and the Niners” and “Jumpsuit”. This is a highly reputable source, and not even truly a “leak” as so many have called it. The pages are managed directly by labels’ legal teams to ensure that anyone who wishes to play music in their media, advertisements, or establishments knows what songs are licensed to which artists and what steps to take to legally license them. “Heathens” was first spotted here over two years ago, not to mention countless other songs from various other artists. The two songs were just removed from the day after they were found listing, but Reddit detectives have already discovered untitled tracks with the same registration codes listed under an unknown Warner artist (ya’ll ain’t slick).

The fact that this posting was accompanied by further activity from the band only confirms that there’s some real nonsense going on. Not only did we get new Dema content (which we’ll get to) but, perhaps even more wild, Tyler Robert Joseph liked something on Instagram. Dude’s alive.

In all seriousness, Tyler Joseph’s social media habits do little to help us understand just what the hell “Nico and the Niners” is. The bigger story (and the one I’ve been slacking on reporting the last two months, my bad) is the sporadic updates to dmaorg.info. Back in early May, we got our first bit of content after the initial reveal in the form of a new letter from Clancy. The letter itself is a pretty well-written YA protagonist internal monologue, with Clancy yearning to find a place that truly feels like home outside the walls of Dema. But, Tyler being Tyler, there’s more to it than that: the date attached to the paragraph matches that of the band’s last social media post, and missing letters from throughout the note together spell out the coded message “You are still sleeping.”

The second update, posted in late May, is this lovely gif of a cheetah running under letters moving in a quick sequence. After slowing it down, the letters spell out the message “U still don’t know his real name do u?” Again, there’s much more to the post when you take the time to dig in. The listed date matches Josh’s appearance at the APMAs, the first mention of Dema. The file name for the gif is “3lurr” meaning the “he” in the question may in fact be Blurryface. Most significantly, the spaces between this message’s words were filled with letters that, when taken out separately and placed in sequence, repeatedly spell out “Nico,” perhaps answering the gif’s own rhetorical question.

So who is Nico? Well, it matches the names of one of the nine bishops in the “Compass” picture from April, which would seem to make him one of the ‘niners” who rule Dema. It’s increasingly looking like this album is really going to double down on covering a weird and fleshed out concept rife with metaphors, and I. Am. Here for it (as long as the music’s, ya know, good).

The final (for now) Dema post was released just yesterday in the wake of all of the sudden new activity. It is the first photo that seems to be wholly original, with no one as yet having tracked down where it’s from. It’s a pretty badass image, with twenty-one (goddammit) figures standing at the edge of some cliff or pit. Some have speculated that this could be album artwork, and it would certainly make for a very good cover. But that’s just the surface.

The image’s jpg name is an assortment of letters that, when deciphered using a basic alphabet sequence code, translates into “Trench”- possibly another new song? BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE! Typing that jpg number sequence or “trench” into the “violation code” section of the dmaorg.info url reveals a heavily-distorted audio clip. Sound engineers on Twitter and Reddit have tried reversing and pitch correcting the snippet, but have not truly succeeded in deriving anything from it beyond that it seems to be Tyler singing “So did they obey/bury you?” But what he’s saying honestly doesn’t matter to me half as much as this fact: after over a year, we finally got to hear Tyler Joseph’s voice. That’s got me on Cloud Nine, baby.

Pictured: The Clique (I know I used this joke last time, sue me)

So what does all of this cryptic nonsense and Reddit deciphering ultimately tell us? Frankly, it’ll be hard to say until we actually have our hands and ears on new music. The Clique has compiled so many different theories about what these little snippets of photos and garbled words mean that there’s no way they can all be true. But it’s becoming increasingly clear that there was an actual plan for this roll-out stretching back at least a year and that Tyler is not (as some salty fans have suggested) just throwing out a bunch of “fake deep trash.” Each piece of the Dema content has matched up in some way with the lyrics from the shutting eyes last year:

“You’ll have to come and find me.” -> The original discovery of the website.

“My pretty sleeper.” -> The “You are still sleeping” hidden message.

“Wouldn’t it be great if we could just lay down...” -> “...and wake up in Slowtown” (and slow down the cheetah gif).

“I will fear the night again...” -> “[I hope I’m] not my only friend.” (the caption for the cliff picture)

Beyond all of that, the revelation of “Nico and the Niners” being part of the actual album should be taken as a real source of validation for all of those Reddit warriors out there: At least some of this stuff means something. (Now wtf is “Jumpsuit” about...)

Other Shenanigans:

Potential leaks from radio stations and some common sense theories have pegged a single release for the band as coming in the next two weeks, either July 6th or 13th. With all that in mind, I thought we’d look back on the weird conspiracy chart I’ve been keeping in my closet and recap what exactly we know about the band’s activities over the last year.

The short answer is: not much. After Josh’s performance at the APMAs, there have been no interviews, no public appearances, no social media posts. Josh has certainly been much more active than Tyler, which just makes sense for his much-less introverted personality. He contributed drums to Lights’ last album (though those recordings were done well before the hiatus). He apparently hopped into the studio with Drake Bell, (though I have no idea if any of that music has seen the light of day). He’s been fine taking group photos with Fueled by Ramen colleagues, other friends from the music industry, and, of course, Debby, who he almost definitely is back with. As for Tyler... well, beyond a few Jenna photos from a few months back and the odd fan encounter, there’s been nothing, which is why that eight second audio clip hit me like a Mack truck.

There are a few other things the truly obsessed have been able to find that I don’t necessarily want to reward by reposting here- I really want to try to keep it about the art. But we can pretty safely guess from Jenna and Jordan’s social media that the duo have been in Columbus, LA, and New York together a few times the last few months, likely for studio sessions and label meetings. Perhaps we’ll find out more about what transpired during the “hiatus” in the weeks and months to come, perhaps not. One thing’s for sure: it’s finally, finally (almost) over.

Editorial:

The last note I wanted to leave everyone on is something a little different for this blog, but still something I still think is worth talking about. Anyone who has been visiting the Twenty One Pilots tags on any site over the last several months can tell that the fanbase has not been taking the band’s absence well. And I’m not just talking the usual overblown crying for new music or young kids worshiping their idols a little too much. That’s always been there. This is different.

A whole host of the old crowd- the update accounts, the podcast hosts, the quasi-groupies who got barricade every night- have turned pretty hard from the band, particularly from Tyler. Some just have no interest in the music of Twenty One Pilots in the year 2018 AD; they’ve discovered other topics, other genres, other artists that speak more personally to where they are in life, and have just moved on. Others have expressed deeply personal distaste for the band itself for a whole host of political and social reasons that I’m not going to get into here- that’s a debate for another time, and probably for another account.

The point is, digging through social media to try to find updates and memes has been difficult when the most dependable sources also pepper in jab at whether Tyler’s learned to carry burdens yet every few posts. And while those folks are certainly more than entitled to their opinions and feelings (I even agree with many of them), it’s hard to deny that there are large swathes of the Twenty One Pilots’ fandom that just aren’t much fun to be in right now, just like there’s large swathes of the world in general where it feels like we’re not permitted to assume the best in people and just be happy with the things that used to make us happy. For a few weeks, I’ve honestly been wondering if I wanted to keep running this account in the next era. I just wanted to go back to the time before I had to share Twenty One Pilots with the world, when this was just my band, the one that made me feel understood and valid and worthy at a time where nothing else really did

Sasha Geffen’s insightful and deeply personal piece on the band’s music for AV Club, which focuses on how Tyler Joseph depicts and discusses suicidal depression, helped bring me back to that time. Music journalists have frequently gotten everything wrong about Tyler Joseph’s songwriting, to the point where I have often felt like they were listening to different music than me. But Geffen gets it. She sees that Tyler does not talk down to his audience about the problems they’re dealing with; he’s always been right there with us, and always offering concrete and practical ways of getting through depression one day at a time. He’s an insightful and compassionate dude, way more than people give him credit for, and it shows in his art. I had almost forgotten that. I needed that reminder right now, before everything ramps up again. I hope that article offers some comfort for any of you who also want to remember why this band is still so special, all these years later.

See you all (hopefully) next week. Power to the local dreamer.

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#twenty one pilots #tyler joseph #josh dun #dema #top weekly update #fueled by ramen #music #av club #bands

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