#is putting this in the tag gonna start discourse? potentially
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You're editing vaguely-patriarchal "forcemasc" motivational poster memes about a dad showing you how cool it is to be a man. I am being gagged, injected with T, and shoved under her skirt to get hopelessly wet and hard and desperate off her smell for as long as she wants until she finally ungags me so I can eat her out like a ravenous beast. We are not the same.
#forcemasc#is putting this in the tag gonna start discourse? potentially#t4t nsft#t4t#ftm sub#if ur new here: I may be voicing spicy opinions about the majority of forcemasc shit out there BUT#I promise I will post forcemasc with more the vibes of being a wet cat or perhaps lab experiment#instead of the weird sexless ego boost content#musk kink
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Briefly back on Tumblr explanation
Hi everyone,
I haven't been on Tumblr since last autumn because I haven't been on any social media. I am not staying back here on Tumblr permanently, but I am logged back in briefly in order to:
a) clean up anything necessary for potential future employers who somehow find my Tumblr
b) go through my likes and tags to find anything I saved, like recipes or lifehacks or book recs (and reblogging all the posts I wanted to reblog)
c) reconnect with my beloved mutuals and friends from here and find ways for us to communicate that are not Tumblr, Twitter, or Instagram
FAQs section:
How long are you staying? As long as it takes me to complete the above tasks. However, I will be avoiding scrolling down my dashboard as much as possible, and trying to stick only to the above tasks, so I may miss out on any posts you make.
Why are you leaving Tumblr? It's complicated, and I don't want to get into why right now (in order to avoid any random user who stumbles across this post deciding to start discourse with me while I'm trying to just sort through recipes and shit). I'll leave a longer explanation here before I log off for good. SHORT ANSWER: Social media is really, really bad for my mental health, and I'm trying to not do things that are bad for my mental health.
Are you OK in real life? Yes, I'm fine. I have a good support network, I finally got a full-time teaching job, and there's no immediate personal crises or whatever.
How do I know whether I count as a beloved mutual or friend or whatever? I'm gonna reach out to some of you, but if you want to stay in touch, please feel free to just message me or reply to this post. If I know you (aka, you're not a random stranger or bot I've never met) (and also, if you changed your URL a bunch, you may need to remind me who you are lol), I'll probably be down to stay in touch. If you feel uncomfortable messaging me but you still want to stay in touch in some way, my AO3 (same user name) still exists and I still check it and if I ever write another fic, I'll post it there.
What's going to happen to your existing posts? The whole blog as it is will stay up. My account will still exist. I just won't be logged in.
Any other questions: Put them in my ask box or messages, I'm happy to answer them.
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yo hey logang member here
just wanted to lyk i actually dont care if you dislike logan, i have characters i dislike too like thats ok i just feel like this all turned into petty drama that wasnt needed 😭 i disagree with some stuff you said (like that one comment about understanding how logans parents didnt want him) but i guess i just wanted to clarify i myself dont have any true ill intent towards you i just think this whole situation is kinda stupid and wanted to clarify that so have a nice day ig- i blocked immediately because i didnt want to see more drama but here i am lmaoo
i personally like logan because he contributes to the group, keeps a level head in tough situations(like standing up for barons other victim) and can make a decision under alot of pressure (like shooting the phantom) and i think he has alot of potential but feel free to debate
hi , idk what happened but the logang has started interacting with me again. did someone make a post or did y’all js get curious? I genuinely wanna know 😣 but you guys are welcomed here !!
um but yeah I agree. thing is I never started this account to troll or start drama/discourse. the account was so that I could separate my main and sbg content and it’d be more organized. I had been posting Logan hate before hand, and a lot of ppl found my posts funny/agreed so I just continued it here. you guys just got rlly mad for no reason. I get that some of the jokes I made were a little harsh, but at the end of the day it was never that serious. I do apologize if I stressed anyone out, but this whole thing is so silly. I’m use to bigger fandoms being more aggressive, and even the sbg TikTok fandom is pretty blunt, so I didn’t think you guys would take my jokes so personally. but you live and you learn.
also I appreciate you being so kind! I understand that many ppl just blocked me bc they didn’t want to waste their energy on smth silly / js assumed it was bait content. which is totally fair! like I’ve said in other posts, I have no ill will towards anybody I’ve interacted with, regardless of how the conversation we had went down. If I’ve said smth that’s upset you, my dms are always open to chat or js tag me in a post/comment and I’ll talk with you. Sometimes I can be a bit rude, but I promise it’s not personal at all. The only person I hate is Logan fields. Not you guys. Even if your a logang member (funny y’all took a liking to that name btw 😭).
I will continue to post Logan slander, and I can’t promise that I’ll tone my content down all the way, so if that’s not for you then you’re welcomed to block me or the Logan hate tag. I use like the same 4 Logan hate tags so it’s not gonna be a sneak attack. Also even though I post logan hate, I AM ALWAYS OPEN TO DEBATING. I’m very open-minded and will change my opinion if you make a good point that I can’t refute. I just have not run into anyone who could do that yet.
okay now for the fun stuff. You said you like Logan because he contributes to the group, but I disagree. I feel like Logan has contributed least to the group. When you say “he keeps level-headed”, I feel the opposite. Logan is very shy and timid, and he gets scared very easily. Logan is very easy to persuade and intimate, which is why he got bullied in the first place. Although he stood up to Barron, he wasn’t level headed at all. He was clouded with rage (which in part has to do with the phantoms) but shows he cannot control his emotions well. In many offical arts + earlier chapters, Logan is seen crying / hesitating constantly. Yes he has a reason to be terrified, but you cannot say he is level headed. Especially compared to everyone else. I’m not sure how I feel about him being able to make decisions under pressure. I think Logan is good at analyzing situations. Thats why he was able to come up with multiple theories about the phantom world. But I feel like in order to say he makes good decisions under pressure, he’d have to actually put these decisions into action. Logan is still very hesitant though and I don’t want to base his character off of one scene, especially because I’ve talked about why I feel like that scene was a cover up and not genuine. Most of the time Logan follows the instructions and commands of others. He actually buckles under pressure imo. like when they were fighting before getting the car, Logan would’ve never mentioned he was scared if Tyler had not spoken first. He would’ve just followed everyone else due to peer pressure. Logan always acts second. I honestly believe if he had saw Aiden on the roof he would’ve never even considered using his gun because he avoids situations that have a lot of pressure and responsibility. So no, I don’t believe Logan makes good decisions under pressure. Again that’s just my opinion and I’m down to talk about it more! but if you do want to debate pls js reblog this or put another ask in bc the comment word limit is so annoying 😭
#sbg#school bus graveyard webtoon#logan hate#i hate logan fields.#logan slander#school bus graveyard#schoolbus graveyard#sbg (webtoon)#fuck logan#logan fields#pls keep asking me questions guys I love talking 🙏
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hi, i noticed you reblogged my post highlighting my tags talking about how i don't appreciate likes, specifically saying something to the affect of "artists do appreciate likes" and i'd like to clear something up, I Am An Artist, My Posts Don't Often Get Reblogged and so i'm Not Getting New Eyes On My Posts and i'm Getting Discouraged‚ like why should i post art if nobody's gonna see it?
i don't really care for likes, all a like is to me is a "hey i saw your post! not gonna say anything about it, just saw it!" and its so easy to do with double tap to like, if i could turn them off on my posts i would, i promise you that. you literally highlighted my tags and said the opposite about People Like Me, basically about Me, which is just an absurd thing to do
also, did you see what blog of mine you were reblogging from? my sideblog for reblogging things to, because my main is for my art, other things "wouldn't match that wallpaper" so i put them on a dedicated blog so i can add tags and interact more without just liking posts, because i've been on the other side of getting like 11k likes or whatever and 5k reblogs‚ meaning i got hardly any feedback and people are now seeing it through the top posts of #long furby or whatever (not to mention that 5k reblogs started with a staff member reblogging it to the radar? so like, reblogs can really do some work)
i know its a bad idea to interact with discourse, especially when its something i could just block you for, i mean i'd really rather not talk to a like truther, but i'd like to tell you these things so you get a perspective of where i was coming from with those tags‚ and so you reconsider your argument against them
i hope you have a nice day‚ feel free to not answer this ask if it doesn't match your wallpaper, please stop telling artists what they should think
here's an idea for you too, turn off double tap to like, try to only interact with posts Intentionally, treat a day like you only have 100 likes or something, make a like matter, show us artists we're wrong
First, I'm not on mobile, "double tap for like" is not a thing in the browser. And I do interact with posts intentionally - if I don't like the post I don't put "like" on it, I just like the overwhelming majority of what's on my dash and I'm always happy to see (almost) any art that people on here actually made. I like it! Quite intentionally! It all matters to me! Like if I don't have the headspace to consider the post I don't - don’t scroll further I get off tumblr and go do something else
I didn't actually see what blog of yours I was reblogging from, no, I don't normally look at those things /sideglare into the "dont reblog from terfs" discourse/
And no, likes don't just mean "I saw your post". Yes, it's easy to put them, but people still choose to. They mean "I saw your post and I am glad I did and I want to see more of these". Literally tumblr has actual algorithms that determine things based on likes - whether to show something in a tag, the "based on your likes" recommendation thing.
Also..
>I Am An Artist, My Posts Don't Often Get Reblogged and so i'm Not Getting New Eyes On My Posts and i'm Getting Discouraged‚ like why should i post art if nobody's gonna see it?
so...
>all a like is to me is a "hey i saw your post!
people. seeing your posts. which is what you're saying you want. ???
Anyway, the real reason I'm wading into this discourse is that arguments like yours ARE MAKING PEOPLE STOP LIKING ART. Engaging with it at all in any way. Instead of going "ooh I should go through this blog and like this person's art, make their day, ooh look this picture is cool enough I want to reblog it!" people just go "artists are touchy, better not go on this dude's blog at all lest I accidentally like something"
like... not just yours. You're not the only person losing out on potential reblogs here. Everyone is. This campaign is driving art appreciators away, period.
Oh, and maintaining a sideblog is not something you can expect from other people as a mandatory obligation. It's not tumblr tax to be obligated to have a sideblog. Nor to blog anything at all. "Hey, if you don't post anything people are going to think you're a bot" =/= "hey, if you don't post anything you're evil and don't belong here".
---
P.S. If I did do that? If I did limit myself to 100 likes per day for ONLY STUFF THAT REALLY MATTERS?
You would have no way of knowing that, would you? Even if the likes I gave your art were from my Precious 100 Likes Supply, you would still be upset by them?
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BnHA Chapter 305: Worst Intervention Ever
Previously on BnHA: Shinomori, whose name took me an entire week to memorize, was all, “nice to meet you Deku, I’m ten feet tall, do you want to know how I died?” and without waiting for an answer explained that he kicked it from old age at forty thanks to good ol’ OFA. Deku was all “wait a minute, then how come All Might, who’s fifty-five and is definitely dyeing his gray hair, is still alive?” First and Shino were all, “we really have no fucking clue but we think it’s cuz he’s quirkless, JUST LIKE YOU!” So basically, since quirkless people don’t exactly grow on trees these days, Deku is probably going to be the last user of OFA. The chapter ended with Nana being all, “psst, Deku, about my grandson. Uh, can you kill him?” which is sure to lead to a very interesting conversation this week.
Today on BnHA: Nana And The Gang are all “so, Deku, how can we put this delicately. The thing is, we’re pretty sure that AFO really fucked my grandson up, so on the off chance you can’t save him, how would you feel about, you know... [throat slitting gesture].” Deku is all “idk you guys, I kinda feel like he’s really just a traumatized child at heart and he’s in a lot of pain and stuff and so I should try to help him.” The Vestiges are all “BUT WHAT IF YOU CAN’T” and Deku is all “BUT I WANT TO TRY, DAMMIT” and the Vestiges are all “well when you put it that way, we, uh, were just testing you, so congrats, you passed!” The chapter ends with First being all, “ANYWAY SO WHY DON’T YOU TWO SHY BOYS STANDING OVER THERE IN THE SHADOWS COME SAY HELLO” before we CUT AWAY FOR ANOTHER WEEK, goddammit.
seriously, Nana
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just... have you met Deku?? look, if you really want Tomura dead, just sic him on the U.A. first years and tell Shouto and Honenuki that it’s a training exercise
oh my god lmao
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we’re too far away to see Nana’s face here so I will just assume that she turned and is staring DIRECTLY INTO THE CAMERA for this one line lmao. “I just wanted to clarify in case anyone felt inclined to take my dialogue out of context and spend an entire week complaining about it”
oh my god?! are you all purposely trying to make me sad??
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someone stop me before I launch into an impromptu rant about all my Tomura feels. WHY IS NOBODY STOPPING ME. oh my god but yes, exactly. he’s just in pain all the time. this is exactly why I think Tomura has such high redemption potential even though so far he seems to lack so many of the redemption arc essentials such as feeling remorse, wanting to change, and taking responsibility for his actions. the reason why I’m willing to overlook all that in his case is because Tomura has essentially had zero agency his entire life. AFO molded him into a killer by making sure he was in constant mental agony, and making it so that the only thing that even slightly relieved that agony was killing peeps. like, please don’t think I’m making excuses for him or anything, but if you take a child and manipulate their existence to make it virtually impossible for that child to grow up as anything other than a killer, and basically never give him the chance to be anything else, then no shit he’s gonna be a killer?? he’s basically never had the choice not to be. it’s never been an option for him. anyways I feel like I am EXPLAINING MYSELF SO BADLY but nonetheless I am prepared to die on this hill
anyway so now Nana is all “that’s a rhetorical question btw because Our Hearts And Minds Are One so we can feel everything you feel bro.” so yeah, that’s interesting
now Banjou is getting started on the “let’s try and talk Deku out of wanting to save Tomura because it’s insane” part of their OFA Mystical Space Void Reunion agenda
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look, Banjou, I feel you, I really do. you guys don’t think it’s realistic that Deku can defeat Tomura without killing him. so if it’s a choice between killing Tomura vs letting Deku and everyone else in the entire world die, then duh, you think Deku should kill him. I get it! and if this were a real life mass murderer I’d totally agree with you. but the problem is that this isn’t real life, this is a sympathetic shounen villain with a tragic past who might as well have FUTURE REDEMPTION ARC RECEIPIENT stamped on his forehead at this point
so First is all “look, there’s absolutely no doubt my brother has fucked this kid up good and proper by now”, which, again, fair
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though, that’s kind of exactly my point though. everything that Tomura is, everything he’s done, he’s done because of AFO. AFO has so effectively shaped his personality and his worldview by this point that it’s all but impossible to penetrate that. he’s AFO’s puppet. but the problem is that rather than treating him like a victim, you all are treating him like a casualty. like he’s already a lost cause. but good luck trying to convince Deku of that
WHOA WHAT, RANDOM SUPER-IMPORTANT AND BIZARRELY UNRELATED EXPOSITION DROPPED IN JUST LIKE THAT??
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way to still not reveal Sixth’s name, btw. THE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW, DAMMIT. but also so this confirms something we basically already knew already, which is that not even AFO can steal OFA. it literally can’t be taken away by anyone unless the owner wills it. SO SUCK ON THAT AFO YOU EGG
(ETA: so I have no idea why this was omitted from this translation, but apparently the Sixth’s name was revealed as “En”, which is obviously not his full name but at least it’s something. also he most likely has a fire or smoke-related quirk based on the kanji used, 煙.)
so Banjou is saying that Deku’s “lack of an iron will” could be a disadvantage against AFO. hahaha what?? Midoriya “I’ll break all of my bones without blinking an eye just to protect someone” Izuku lacks an iron will? do tell
he says this is going to be a test of Deku’s determination. well yeah, no shit. but just not in the way you guys think
OH HELLO AGAIN
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darker hair again here! but I don’t trust the contrast in these scans at all after last week. his coveralls are way darker than they looked before too, and you can clearly see he’s standing in the shadows now
(ETA: yep, once again the raw shows that his hair is considerably lighter than what’s shown in these scans here. although there’s no mistaking now that his hair is consistently being colored in this slightly darker shade, and it’s not just the lighting.)
anyways lol First was saying something about how AFO can’t steal OFA, and they’ve spent all this time cultivating it as the ultimate weapon against AFO, and blah blah blah. go on then, keep lecturing
NANA GODDAMMIT NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT
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girl what?? you did everything in your power to protect your family, and AFO, fucked up man that he is, targeted them anyway. there is one person and one person only to blame for what’s happened to Tomura, and that potato-faced asshole needs a good kick in the balls
NANA GODDAMMIT DON’T MAKE ME COME OVER THERE
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SO HELP ME GOD!! I WILL GIVE YOU THE BIGGEST HUG YOU’VE EVER HAD!! THAT IS A THREAT
so now Nana is all “I’m just going to call my grandson a Thing to ensure that fandom has only the freshest, grass-fed no-hormones-added discourse this week”
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I don’t even need to drop into the tags to know exactly which specific people are going to respond to this, and what kind of posts they are going to write lmao. everyone’s all caught up in the “that thing”, and meanwhile I’m over here completely hung up on this “nay” that’s appeared out of NOWHERE you guys. look at that. she really said “NAY”
Nana, my love, my dearest, I feel you girl I really do. but he’s not an unforgivable manifestation of pure evil, Deku is exactly right actually, he’s a boy in pain. you guys need to stop questioning Deku’s shounen protagonist instincts here and just let him work his sparkly magic. “let’s try and convince Midoriya Fucking Izuku that he can’t save someone” is a plan that is NEVER going to turn out well you guys
“DEKU GODDAMMIT WHAT IF WE CAN’T SAVE HIM” lmao it’s like an intervention
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“DAMMIT DEKU JUST ADMIT YOU HAVE A SAVING PEOPLE PROBLEM!”
RED ALERT IT’S ANOTHER CLOSE-UP OF THE BACK OF MISTER TWO BON CLAY’S HEAD OMG
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(ETA: I was too distracted with freaking out about Two and Three to really appreciate how ridiculously handsome First looks in this panel. but on my second readthrough it stood out so much that I had to go back and add an extra bullet point just to talk about how hot he is. look at him. wtf.)
THAT IS DEFINITELY AN UNDERCUT. THE PLOT THICKENSSSS. also those are fucking exhaust vents on Mister Three’s neck. MISTER THREE COULD YOU POSSIBLY BE RELATED TO THE IIDAS, PLEASE TELL ME YOUR SECRETS I’M DYING OVER HERE
so now Deku is launching into what will undoubtedly be a “saving people problems require SAVING PEOPLE SOLUTIONS” heroic counter-speech!
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I mean, they can already feel the “lol nah I’m gonna try and save him” feelings running through him lol. ~OuR hEaRtS aNd MiNdS aRe CoNnEcTeD~ and all that. this is just a formality, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love a good shounen protag speech
oh wait hold up, do you mean to tell me that the whole “hearts and minds are connected” thing I was just mocking just a paragraph ago actually allowed Deku to feel what Tomura was feeling?? like literally feel it??
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YET AGAIN these Tomura feels are pounding on my front door you guys?? they just will not quit?? people my house is already full of feels, does it look like I need you to sell me any more of them?? -- what do you mean, they’re free??
AW YISS THAT’S IT DEKU. THAT’S SOME GOOD SPEECH RIGHT THERE
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I appreciate the contrast here between the Douchebag Triumvirate of Overhaul, Muscular, and Stain versus the Misguided Twosome of Gentle and La Brava. never let it be said that Deku doesn’t know the difference between a redeemable villain and an unredeemable one
OH NO -- OH MY GOD
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someone please help me I need directions to the OFA Spooky Galactic Nebula Realm in this fictional Japanese manga land. it’s not on google maps. I need to give these two babies a big hug and wrap them up in a blanket and treat them to some McDonalds Happy Meals please help
other things: (1) ENDEAVOR CHILLING OUT IN DEKU’S “PEOPLE I HOLD DEAR” PANEL LMAO NEON DISCOURSE EXTRAVAGANZA, (2) “ONE FOR ALL IS A POWER TO SAVE, NOT TO KILL” I’M ABOUT TO CRY DEKU I LOVE YOU SO MUCH HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO FEEL ALL THIS LOVE, (3) [SLAMS HANDS ON TABLE] THERE’S YOUR MOTHERFUCKING IRON WILL!!!!!!!! -- I’m sorry, please don’t call security, I’ll be good
I just randomly remembered that Deku is still saying all of this in his muffled “FMMPHHMMPHMM” voice and I’m somehow cracking up lol. so actually it’s a very good thing Their Hearts And Minds Are Connected, otherwise they’d no doubt be all, “...what?”
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(ETA: so I completely missed this on account of it literally not being visible in the scan at all, but in the raw you can clearly see Baby Kacchan and Baby Shouto fanboying over All Might in two of these panels, and excuse me, ma’am??
thank you very much Deku for including them in your montage, particularly since you’ve never seen Baby Shouto before lol. amazingly accurate image you managed to conjure up, all things considered.)
SDKFJLSKHG -- AS IF ON CUE???
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HE’S SO ADORABLE HELP?? Trippy Space All Might looks like he’s about to cry, and First is all “don’t crack a smile... you have to be Firm and Serious here... dammit, don’t smile” omg
anyways! YOU GO DEKU. “MY QUIRK MY RULES, BITCHES” damn, son
KLJLKKHLG TRIPPY SPACE ALL MIGHT LITERALLY ACTUALLY IS CRYING ALL MIGHT HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME
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“I JUST... [CLENCHES FIST] REALLY LOVE SAVING PEOPLE” FUCKING HELL LMAO THIS IS THE WORST INTERVENTION OF ALL TIME
Deku is literally all “sure, maybe I’ll have to kill him, but have you guys also considered, MAYBE NOT??” it’s no use Nana he’s too powerful
LMAO FIRST
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“like I’ve been saying this whole time, you should definitely try saving Shigaraki Tomura.” “but, uh... First, didn’t you just -- ” “shut up”
(ETA: clearly it’s not just his brother who inherited those smooth-talking genes.)
so now Deku has turned back into a sixteen year old and his clothes have gone missing again. just OFA things
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dskljdlsklgk
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yes... sure... “testing” you...
HEY
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FIRST OF ALL, DAMN YOU HORIKOSHI YOU MADE NANA CRY. even if I’m pretty sure they’re actually tears of happiness/relief. and SECOND OF ALL, “TELL MY BOYFRIEND I SAID HI” DJSKDLKJJL ANYWAY MAYBE GRAN, NANA, AND MR. SHIMURA WERE IN A THROUPLE
[SCREAMS]
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WHY WOULD YOU END IT THERE?? WHY WOULD YOU END IT THERE!!!!!
(ETA: and two-to-one odds that we cut away to some other scene once they finally start to turn around next week. I’M CALLING IT NOW. giving myself a week to brace myself for the rage.)
fucking hell. well if anyone needs me I will be adding Horikoshi fucking Kouhei to the list of irredeemable villains, peace
#bnha 305#midoriya izuku#shigaraki tomura#shimura tenko#shimura nana#ofa the first#banjou daigorou#bnha#boku no hero academia#bnha spoilers#mha spoilers#bnha manga spoilers#makeste reads bnha#'deku. sweetheart. your other vestiges and I just want what's best for you'#'have you tried... *not* saving people?'#only to backpedal SPECTACULARLY when he was all 'WHAT DO YOU MEAN NOT SAVING THEM'#yeah okay guys#you're not fooling anyone#but it's okay I still love you
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gods, ok, apparently i’m not done.
atla fandom? we need to have a chat.
(....ok that made me sound pretentious as fuck. and maybe i am, but this needs to be said, cause i’m getting....real, real tired of a Certain Corner of this fandom and as a result, this is gonna be a discourse-heavy post so feel free to scroll past if that’s not your bag. as always, my salt posts all carry the catch-all #salt for ts tag, which you’re free to blacklist/filter at your leisure. i’m Very Annoyed at the moment, which will probably come through in the following post, so just. yknow. be prepared for that. or ignore it, that’s perfectly valid too.)
under a cut bc i do care for my followers and their sanity i swear lmao
there’s a real serious issue in this fandom with not understanding what queer terminology actually means or implies, especially when applied to a fictional narrative.
i’m specifically talking about ‘coding’, here. (if i were in a more meme-y mood, i might have said ‘the atla fandom found out about the term “gay-coding” and haven’t shut up since’.)
to the people who say ‘zuko is gay-coded’, i have this to say: you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means. because he isn’t. i’m sorry, but he’s not! and the fact that this is such a prevalent claim in this fandom is distressing, bc it says to me that none of y’all know what gay-coding is or when and how to apply it! please, i’m begging you, go and look up these terms and what they mean and when they should be used before actually trying to plug them into your critical analysis, because when you misuse them and then call other people delusional for disagreeing with you it casts a pall over the entire fandom and is, i think, the root of some of the worst toxicity this fandom has to offer.
and the thing is, there are cases where gay-coding would apply--for instance, a couple series that are famous for queerbaiting their audience by coding their main characters as being attracted to one another (sometimes even despite their openly stated sexualities) come to mind, but those shows bare no similarities at all to atla and how zuko was written and portrayed! (and it would be funny, if it weren’t so obnoxious and infuriatingly wide-spread throughout the fandom, because the only queer couple we actually seen on-screen in either show wasn’t even queer-coded in any respect, and they’re canonically bi! [yes, i’m shading korrasami, or more accurately i’m shading bryke for refusing to give ka the build-up and development they deserved].)
this absolutely isn’t to say that headcanoning zuko as gay is a bad thing or invalid in any respect. (although the tendency for zukka shippers to do this specifically to keep zuko away from katara and/or invalidate his canon relationship/attraction to girls is more than a little eyebrow raising. especially since sokka is usually allowed to be bi, bc fans have no problem letting sukka stay in the background bc it’s no real threat, while jetko shippers are happy to have both boys be bi. [possibly bc katara is less a threat to jetko bc jetkotara is every bit as valid as any single ship between the three, but zukka can’t exactly let katara join in, and if the potential exists for zuko to be attracted to her then canon giving them the far deeper emotional bond becomes a threat to zukka’s existence? idk for sure--you be the judge.]) i prefer to hc zuko as bi (and always have, long before the atla renaissance), bc i don’t think zuko being attracted to boys is outside the realm of possibility, and it isn’t a threat to my ship since zuko&katara had a deep and emotional bond in canon that is very easy to develop further into something that becomes explicitly romantic--but the headcanon itself isn’t really the problem (although what it’s often in service to can be).
it’s the strange insistence that this is the only way to read his character, bc he was coded that way and so anyone who doesn’t see it must be too straight to understand--and i really shouldn’t have to say why and how that is so incredibly fucking insulting. (the ‘hetero lenses’ comment wasn’t cute when it came from bryke six years ago, and the same sentiment being repackaged and delivered by zukka shippers ain’t cute now.)
calling zuko gay-coded not only demonstrates ignorance as to what the term actually means, and how to usefully apply it in critical analysis, but also validates the frankly bullshit insertion of institutionalized homophobia in the world of atla where it was neither needed, nor wanted, nor ever hinted at in canon. as a queer woman i’m still infuriated by one fucking comic panel shoving institutionalized and systemic homophobia into a world where it was entirely unnecessary (and doing this in the first installment of the franchise showcasing a queer relationship??? making korra and asami worried about ‘coming out’ when they could have just gone on to have cute adventures together and tell people ‘hey we’re dating’ and have everyone else be ‘that’s awesome =DDD’ [because it is, in fact, possible to just have a world without homophobia i promise!!!!!] double yikes, i’m still pissed at bryke about it), and i doubly hate that ‘zuko is gay coded’ has become so widespread that ‘ozai hates him bc he’s gay’ has become a staple in that part of the fandom.
not only does making zuko gay and implying (or outright stating) that ozai hated and abused him because of it completely undermine zuko’s character arc by making his abuse about his sexuality rather than ozai’s toxic pride and anger at seeing himself reflected in his ‘weak’ son, but it comes very close to outright stating that abuse and trauma are inherently gay experiences, and they aren’t!!! they really aren’t, i promise!!!
abuse and trauma narratives exist outside of ‘my dad hates me because i’m gay’. and, quite frankly, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH queer trauma narratives out in the world. we do not need to start trying to retroactively make them canon in a series where they didn’t exist! if you’re gay and see yourself in zuko and project your own experiences on him, that’s understandable and valid. that does not make zuko gay-coded. and honestly, the insistence that he is makes very little sense to me, because you’re essentially trying to give the show credit for work you put into interpreting the characters! why would you want to do that? why not own your own headcanons and take credit for them, rather than insisting they are canon and everyone else is wrong for not seeing them??? like, i’ve said before that i’ve always headcanoned zuko (and katara) as bi, and even support it with my interpretations of evidence from the show, but the difference between ‘i think zuko is bi’ and ‘zuko is definitely gay-coded’ is that i know that bi zuko is my interpretation of canon, and that it is work i’m putting into the show that wasn’t actually intended by the creators/writers, no matter how much sexual tension i read into the jetko swordfight.
and like, zuko’s character arc doesn’t actually parallel a queer one all that well to begin with. it’s easy enough to do the work and twist it sideways just enough to make the general points fit, but the fact is, zuko’s arc is not one of self-discovery. it’s not one of coming to understand something fundamental about himself that he can’t change, that he was hated for, and coming out to his father in a dramatic confrontation where he shows that he understands himself and doesn’t need his father’s acceptance to be fulfilled.
zuko’s arc is actually one of trauma and healing. and those can (and often are--like i said, there are more than enough queer trauma narratives in the world, atla really doesn’t need to be one of them) be part of queer narratives, for sure! but they aren’t uniquely queer. and zuko’s confrontation with ozai during the eclipse doesn’t read like a ‘coming out’ at all. (yes, i’ve seen that post. yes, i rolled my eyes and moved on, bc unlike some people, i’m capable of not clowning on correctly tagged posts i disagree with.) zuko is specifically confronting ozai over his abuse, because his arc wasn’t about discovering anything fundamental about himself (and therefore realizing that ozai was hating him for something he couldn’t change)--it was about realizing that he was not at fault for the way his father treated him. it was also about realizing that the fire nation was broken and corrupt at its core, and that his father was an aspect of that he needed to break away from so that he could help the world begin to heal.
he says it himself:
Zuko: No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.
making this about zuko being gay and rejecting ozai’s homophobia, rather than zuko learning fundamental truths about the world and about his home and about how there was something deeply wrong with his nation that needed to be fixed in order for the world to heal (and, no, ‘homophobia’ is not the answer to ‘what is wrong with the fire nation’, i’m still fucking pissed at bryke about that), misses the entire point of his character arc. this is the culmination of zuko realizing that he should never have had to earn his father’s love, because that should have been unconditional from the start. this is zuko realizing that he was not at fault for his father’s abuse--that speaking out of turn in a war meeting in no way justified fighting a duel with a child.
is that first realization (that a parent’s love should be unconditional, and if it isn’t, then that is the parent’s fault and not the child’s) something that queer kids in homophobic households/families can relate to? of course it is. but it’s also something that every other abused kid, straight kids and even queer kids who were abused for other reasons before they even knew they were anything other than cishet, can relate to as well. in that respect, it is not a uniquely queer experience, nor is it a uniquely queer story, and zuko not being attracted to girls (which is what a lot of it seems to boil down to, at the end of the day--cutting down zuko’s potential ships so that only zukka and a few far more niche ships are left standing) is not necessary to his character arc. nor does it particularly make sense.
(and before anyone brings up his date with jin--a) he enjoyed it when she kissed him, and b) he was a traumatized, abused child going out on a first date. of course he was fucking awkward. have you ever met a teenage boy????)
anyway, uh, that was a lot of words, so have a tl;dr: zuko is not gay-coded. there is nothing uniquely gay (or even uniquely queer) about his character arc or characterization, and he was certainly not coded gay in an attempt to sneak a queer character past the censors. if anyone involved with atla was gonna try that, it would’ve been in lok, and as established, they didn’t even manage to queer-code the actual queer relationship before the last few minutes of the final episode. headcanoning zuko as gay is absolutely fine (though if it’s only done to keep him away from female characters he may otherwise be attracted to, that smells more like misogyny than anything else), but insisting that this reading is the only one that makes sense, and anyone who doesn’t agree must be straight (hello, queer woman here making this insanely long thinkpiece) is very much not.
ship what you like, but stop trying to invalidate other ships and other interpretations of characters just to make your ship seem more plausible. it’s really not a good look.
#atla#zuko#zukka salt#more like zukka shipper salt#atla fandom salt#salt for ts#zuko is not gay coded and im so so tired of seeing that argument in this fandom#it's fine as a hc but it's not canon and was never remotely intended and his arc isn't particularly evocative of a gay narrative#long post#queer things
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Jimmy has no right to *that* hostile (ie downright homophobic). He already almost threw Thomas out onto the street without a reference; if anyone has a right to be scared it’s Thomas; he’s now aware everyone knows he’s gay and he knows at least one or two of those people(one of them being jimmy) would happily throw him under the bus given the chance. He’s literally never been so vulnerable and there’s no need for jimmy to rub it in
Hey Nonny you’re my first official fandom argument! Or you were when I first drafted this over a week ago lol. Since then I've waded into some drama bc I have poor impulse control. Well you're my first argumentative anon still! Do I get a prize, or do you? Have an, um apple of discord: 🍏And I will have one too: 🍏 (Intended tone: genuinely friendly, although if you are not already aware you should know that in fandom spaces messages like these are generally considered hostile acts. Most people don’t want to argue with strangers about why their faves suck, and especially not in response to tags they made about their overwhelmed shippy feelings. (Although I guess if hypothetically you’re the OP of the post I put the tags on and weren’t comfortable with them being on your post that’s admittedly a tough place to be in. Coming to me with your face on and asking me to remove my reblog or the tags because you’re not comfortable with them runs the risk of me being an asshole or taking something in your phrasing badly and starting a big fight. Uh, the chances of that seem rather remote so I’m gonna leave the tags where they are unless OP comes to me and says “I hadn’t wanted to say anything but actually -”.) Anyway I’m not gonna derail this into a long(er than it is) ramble on preferred ways to discuss disagreements in fandom but I might post something like that at a later date.)
God I use way too many parentheses. Apologies to any with a blacklist for Jimmy (do I still have any of those? not sure), obviously I don’t want to put this in the tags. I shall tag this and any further discourse on the subject with “the storyline that shall not be named”. Let’s get (finally) to it!
So, the first thing I wanna say is: yes, Jimmy makes homophobic comments and that’s bad, both because Thomas being gay is not the reason he assaulted Jimmy and because there’s hypothetically a chance someone who doesn’t already know might figure out Thomas’s sexuality based on Jimmy’s comment(s? There's the one before the rope tug and then I could have sworn there was one other one but I'm blanking on what it actually was.)However a) the moment I was commenting on wasn’t one of the homophobic comments and b) I find it important to distinguish between the specific manner of hostility (sometimes homophobic) and the level of hostility (nasty remarks and making a constant point of distancing himself) and the level is in fact 100% warranted. If you think nasty remarks and pointed distancing are more hostile than a person has a right to be towards the guy who sexually assaulted them, then we have a pretty profound disagreement.
As for your other point, regarding fear: Thomas and Jimmy both have very compelling reasons to be afraid of each other but I have to ask exactly what you think Jimmy is “rubbing in?” He initially tried to retaliate excessively against Thomas, backed down from that, and then discovered that instead of facing a reasonable consequence for assaulting him, such as being fired but with a reference that reflected the fact that this was one very bad mistake rather than a pattern*, Thomas was promoted to a position of direct authority over Jimmy. Although Jimmy was bribed into not making a fuss about this rather than, say, threatened, I think he has nonetheless been given a fairly clear message from his employers that they will back the senior coworker who assaulted him against any potential consequence he might try to bring. From Jimmy’s point of view, which is admittedly blinkered by fear and self interest, Thomas is the one in the secure, powerful position and Jimmy is the one extremely vulnerable.
I don't even just mean from his point of view like, ~emotionally. Genuine question: what would happen if Thomas started being overly touchy-feely again, or did worse than that, and Jimmy went to Mr. Carson or Mrs. Hughes or Lord Grantham to report it? I really don't know, and neither does Jimmy. Personally, I'm guessing that whether they believed him would probably depend significantly on things like Jimmy’s demeanor, and exactly what words he used, and basically whether he came across as a victim or as a brat trying to get someone in trouble. And which of those things a person seems like has no particular correlation to the facts of what they’re reporting - as we can see from what happened the first time! Like, Jimmy came off as spiteful and nasty and instead of being fired Thomas was promoted. That is actually what happened! The fact that Jimmy's motives were mixed doesn't change the fact of what Thomas did: Jimmy, when evaluating his safety, has access to one really strong datapoint and that’s that last time the majority of his superiors came down on Thomas’s side, either from the beginning or by the end.
Now, it’s true that he’s had a year to observe Thomas’s behavior and make an educated guess that Thomas really is sorry and won’t do it again. We can only speculate as to what extent he may have reached that conclusion and why he has or hasn’t. Some possible reasons why he might not have: trauma blinkers, homophobic and sexist beliefs, sufficiently bad at reading people to not know what clues to even look for, too self-centered to bother thinking about it in those terms... we don’t know. And perhaps he does know perfectly well that Thomas won't do anything like that again and any lingering fear is of cooties or of people mistaking him for gay and him being in the line of fire along with Thomas next time! You can read him that way if you want. You can say “wtf I see no fear of any kind”. It’s a flexible canon and none of these interpretations are actually contradicted by the text. Indeed I happily read other interpretations and when I babbled in those tags it was more "this is the interpretation I am thinking about right now" than intended to assert it as my One True Headcanon that I will not deviate from. But Jimmy definitely has reasons to be afraid, and of more than cooties.
Of course Thomas also has logical and emotional reasons to be afraid of what Jimmy might do, I'm certainly not denying that. (In fact, one of the things I find so compelling about these two is that they both have such strong reasons not to trust each other and they both reach out anyway.) It seems that Thomas’s belief in who Jimmy is as a person supersedes those reasons (“He wouldn’t be so unkind. Not on his own.”) but if Jimmy has a similar belief about who Thomas he keeps it hidden at least until the fair.
P.S. please reconsider the phrase “has the right to be scared” in every context but especially when discussing someone’s reaction to a situation that involved them being sexually assaulted. I offer you the alternative “logical reason to be scared” or "compelling reason" as perhaps capturing what I hope you meant. I think that’s a language choice that really does matter a fair bit.
#*the reference thing is tricky to think about because on the one hand I don't think it would be out of line (ethically#it would definitely be out of line from a propriety standpoint)#for Jimmy to want to know that the incident was affecting Thomas's reference in some way#but I also don't actually know enough about service and references to know how much room for middle ground there was#like if the reference says 'efficient worker but has made other staff uncomfortable in the past' or some other euphemism what does that mea#was that the sort of thing reference writers did ever?#but I don't think Jimmy actually cared about this#so I guess it's moot#the storyline that shall not be named
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I just find it so unfortunate that some aggressive shippers ruin a ship and a character for so many people. A popular Erwin x Levi artist got hate comments by some Levihan shippers and so many people are bashing it now on twitter because of that. Its just so sad considering LH was one of the most beautiful and fun dynamics in such a depressing story. Even Hange is getting hated because LH is pretty much the default ship involving them and it just breaks my heart :(
Twitter has some great content and I actually hang around AOT twt for some quick content. It’s like every time I’m feeling fast food I just hang there, like a few tweets, read a few soc med AUs etc etc.
But god. It’s a mess man. Last year I was constantly on twitter to be honest and it left me in a bad mood everyday because people are just being assholes for little to no reason really but just to put themselves in what they believe is a morally higher ground from their peers. And people just like fighting and the funny part is no opinions are actually heard, no views are actually exchanged. It’s just “you dont agree with me so you’re a bad person.”
Ad hominem attacks are just everywhere.
So I like staying in my small little hole and just talking to myself there and just liking the content of the Levihan people I actually follow. I see stuff I don’t agree with but I’ve kinda accepted that a lot of people there are just there to push an agenda because really if people were that open minded, I don’t think lynching and call out culture would have gotten this far.
I’ve used this same analogy so many times but I feel like in Twitter, people are just scrambling for some sort of moral high ground. Because of that, it is completely useless to engage in discourse there because one thing I noticed is most people who are vocal there already have a set stance on something and the fact that they’re ready to just bully anyone who stands in the way of their agenda, just makes convincing them out of the agenda impossible and a complete waste of time. And there are two issues in particular among the LH community which are really unsettling for me: the ship wars and within the LH community, the gender war.
Ship wars
I find the ship wars unnecessary because really what makes a superior ship?
Probability of being canon? How much fuel they were given in canon? Healthiness of the relationship?
The truth is people ship for many reasons. But really, who are we to judge how a person goes about the way they decide to participate in the fandom and ship? As long as it is something they keep within personal spaces and do it responsibly, I don’t think it’s our business to judge someone or lynch them. The important thing is people are able to not be an asshole about it. People can ship the most questionable shit, create the most dubious content, as long as that person is respecting boundaries and putting the right tags and trigger warnings, who are we to call them out right?
Of course I prefer LH over other Levi ships personally but is there really a need to attack other people’s ships about it? I probably do poke fun at Ereri because until now I still do not get why people enjoy Ereri in the first place but why destroy the fandom experience for people just because we don’t agree with them.
My general intention behind shipping Levihan is because above anything I value the healthiness in the relationship and the things people can learn about love and relationships by analyzing Levihan’s dynamics and headcanoning them. I love Levi and Hange’s dynamics to death and I like digging deeper into them and pulling out lessons from it about love, life and relationships and just sharing them with people which is my whole point for participating in this fandom in the first place.
But in the end, ships are just preferences. Some people like getting a kick out of dubious pairings and toxic relationships. As long as they consume these responsibly and don’t emulate them in real life, I see no problem in it.
The toxic ones are the ones who actively crucify people for preferences.
The Gender War
One really disturbing thing I found about twitter is that deciding to use ‘she’ to refer to Hange can get you lynched. I found a few accounts that would reblog tweets where someone says something like “Yes, Hange, Queen” which gets retweeted by some NB Hange folk who say stuff like “Unfollow this transphobe now.”
Because apparently deciding to headcanon Hange as a woman or just preferring to use ‘she’ makes people a transphobe. Which is personally just... really disturbing. I don’t believe words like homophobic, transphobic, racist should be so easily thrown around unless there is hard evidence to believe that someone is really one of the epithets above like for example:
There are things I find completely assholish like of course, refusing to use someone’s preferred pronouns if they ask you.
But Hange is fictional and Hange is a gift to the fandom.And I don’t even think the issue about Hange’s gender should have ever reached this far. The only thing Yams ever said was that Hange is just not the type to be tied down to a single gender.
And policing Hange’s gender and saying NOPE SHE’S NON BINARY USE THEY Is just counterintuitive to the whole idea that she’s a free spirit. In the end, Hange as a character wouldn’t have given a fuck whether people called her a they, she or even a he.
And yeah, it’s frustrating really that these two issues I just discussed above are ruining Hange as a character for a lot of people and consequently, ruining Levi x Hange as a ship.
Apparently, a lot of people are closet LxH shippers or closet Hange stans because the moment they tweet something about Hange, there are people who will attack them. If people refer to Hange as they, they get attacked. If people refer to Hange as she, they get attacked. There are so many antis apparently to the LxH ship, some apparently are jealous because ‘it’s the closest to canon’ while others just apparently deem it a toxic ship because of our own internal gender war.
There’s no winning really. And to be honest, there’s nothing I can do either and I don’t want to engage in any arguments in twitter if at the end of it, I’m just gonna end up wasting my time listening to ad hominem attacks directed at me just for not agreeing with someone in a fandom related matter. .
I’ve said my piece about the Hange gender issue so many times. There are NBs who use she. There are those who use they. Being female and being NB aren’t mutually exclusive. You can be both at the same time.
But yeah, we still have people being assholes about this and pushing factually wrong agendas. I love research and I have been writing research papers and metas for a lot of things even before I started this blog in the first place. And I eventually learned that the world is so complex that no opinion is completely and absolutely correct.
And ideally, opinions shouldn’t be made so easily.
Don’t get me wrong. I believe everyone is entitled to a preference and when I say preference I mean the type of food they like, the type of wallpaper they like.
But no one is entitled to a moral judgement or opinion just for existing and when I say opinion I mean questions on morals, on what’s right or what isn’t, what is or what should be. Every single person has the responsibility to research, hear both sides of a discourse and understanding them before deciding for themselves what’s right. And this is why hearing accusations that someone is ‘transphobic,’ ‘homophobic’ blah blah over how we hc a character just really does not sit well with me.
Passing moral judgement on someone requires discernment, deep thought and lots and lots of evidence. But yeah this is a philosophical question and a political question so I ain’t going to delve into it here.
Because, in the end, fandoms are preferences. The way we choose to participate in a fandom and create content are preferences more than anything.
So what? (Btw, if you reached all the way here, thank you for listening to me ramble lol and sorry if you weren’t expecting this type of ramble)
I know I’ve just been rambling a lot up there for a lot of reasons but really what message do I wanna give?
Fandoms are preferences more than anything so I don’t even believe that there should be a discussion on moral judgement here. People can have the weirdest kinks, the most questionable preferences but as long as they aren’t going around romanticizing abuse, beating up people in real life, killing them and lying in real life, who are we to judge?
Even if someone says they have a rape kink and abuse kink when it comes to fics, as long as they acknowledge it’s something they shouldn’t emulate in real life, as long as they can keep an adult conversation about it, I think these people are generally kinder and more pleasant overall than people who force their healthy canon ship and lynch everyone for having more questionable preferences.
Ship and let ship. Live and let live. Headcanon and let headcanon. If a person has a differing opinion, listen. (Or really, if you just don’t want to deal with listening to differing opinions coz you’re just gonna get stressed, don’t lynch? Don’t send hate? And just ignore it?)
Ask yourself. Does the person acknowledge that it isn’t right in real life? Do they acknowledge if they emulate it in real life it has the potential to be harmful?
Honestly, all I wanna do is just let people stan Levi and Hange however they want to. There are obviously hcs I dont agree with. But in the LH community we just all love Levihan, let’s not ruin the fandom experience for anyone. In the AOT community, we all just love AOT, let’s not ruin it for anyone. Let’s not hurt anyone, attack them etc.
If someone doesn’t agree and they can hold an adult conversation about it and they don’t emulate these toxic opinions in real life and they recognize that there is the option to just agree to disagree, why don’t we just listen and engage in this discourse to learn more about other people and to build more perspectives?
Because really it isn’t the questionable hcs or the multiple genders which leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. It’s the people who just go straight to attacking instead of actually considering that there’s potential for discourse and there’s potential to ‘agree to disagree’ because in the end, fandom discourse is a question of preference more than moral judgement.
It’s easier said than done really. But personally for me, I just try to keep my fandom experience as non toxic as possible while at the same time as mentally fulfilling as possible. I enjoy discourse, I like hearing differing opinions and I really believe with something as light and as inconsequential as fandoms as our common ground, we can learn to peacefully co-exist despite differing opinions on what the best ship is or what Hange’s gender is.
Note: I won’t delve too much on the Hange gender issue here because I have pending asks about those which I’ll answer in one go, but I really believe that both they and she are valid pronouns for Hange.
I have a general preference for ‘she’ because it’s just easier to read. But personally I don’t think too much about the gender identity issue because it’s really just too complex for me and i like spending my time thinking of other headcanons about Hange than gender and people who push the Hange is nb agenda and people who push the Hange is a female agenda and just insult each other and lynch each other are both equally unsettling.
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I'm honestly a bit confused on the problem with making fandom related blm art (as long as its not tagged blm and provides links to supporting blm). Could you please explain?
please realize before you read any of this that i am speaking as an nbpoc person who has been mostly off tumblr for the past few days, with the exception of occasional nighttime reblog sprees after my productivity blocker extension times out. i have been doing my absolute best to educate myself as well as possible so as to be the best ally i can be, but i am nevertheless imperfect and i very well may say something wrong. above all, please keep in mind that the voices that really need to be heard and raised up right now are the voices belonging to our bipoc friends, not my own.
also, i’m real tired -- im not saying this to seek pity or make this conversation about myself, just to ask you to forgive any spelling errors/grammar errors/run-on sentences. thanks. ill also definitely be putting a tl;dr at the end, because I can already tell this post is gonna get longggg.
that said, i appreciate that you’re actively seeking to learn, so i'll do my best to explain what i've gleaned based on what bipoc fanders have been saying. for starters, @/hazelmagix put one major issue very succinctly in her post on the matter (tw for swearing, but this is really the Big One):
in addition to the above Big Issue (ie. needing to bring Real Experiences That Real People Are Facing down to the same level as works of fiction), i believe that one of the specific issues that the tss fandom is facing right now came about after @/bleepblopbloop56 drew a lovely piece of art involving a black, trans roman that originally (to the best of my knowledge) had nothing to do with blm. if you’re a part of the fandom and you’ve been on tumblr at all these past few days, you’ve likely seen the results of that, but i don’t know how many people are aware of the full story right now so just bear with me here:
what happened was that some people outside the fandom (mostly bipoc!!!) came across the piece and voiced their discomfort about it (some kindly, but many not-so-kindly), presumably because they thought that the artist was drawing Real Person Thomas Sanders as black, as opposed to a fictional character who is often portrayed in all manner of diverse interpretations. eventually, it got to the point where the artist felt pressured to take their piece down.
(for clarification, i don’t think it’s ever okay to harass creators to that point, but that’s a whole ‘nother matter entirely. the point is, it was mostly people outside the fandom.)
anyway, the situation ended up sparking outrage after someone else made a post pointing the issue out under the assumption that the attacks had stemmed from racism and transphobia within the fandom (not true). in response, people (predominantly white people, if i’m not mistaken) began to draw art of black trans roman. which would be great on its own, except it didn’t take long for folks to start attaching it to the black lives matter movement. which was less great (see above screenshot). the least great part of all is that so much of it stemmed from spite at the people who had originally been voicing their discomfort about the art -- the same people, mind you, who are not a part of the fandom at all.
not only was this effort misdirected, it was also hurtful because people (again, majorly white) were now using black skin tone and even the blm movement itself as a form of spite. the focus was not on explaining the situation to the original poc outside the fandom -- it was on using art and fandom to appear “woke”, and in the process, ignoring the black voices who were saying they were uncomfortable. and i want to make it explicitly clear that i’m not accusing those who have been drawing bipoc sides of having bad intentions; just that almost all of it has been extremely performative. in using blm for fanart in this way, fanders are taking a real-world issue and turning it into a tool to further our own fandom issue, and that is absolutely not okay. and even when it’s not being utilized for discourse, it can still be extremely insensitive to put real-world struggles side by side with fiction.
my original post about adding resources to fanart was never meant to imply that adding links automatically makes it okay, either. again, i haven’t been on tumblr often and so i had no idea what actual bipoc fanders’ stance on the issue was, and i didn’t want to speak over anyone. what i was trying to say was that if the fandom is going to be so keen on pushing blm, the absolute least that we can do is to actually take the time to educate ourselves on the movement and contribute in other ways as well -- such as signing petitions, donating, et cetera. otherwise, not only is the content performative and potentially hurtful, it’s just plain meaningless.
tl;dr --
black lives matter is not a trend for white and nbpoc people to take advantage of so that they can appear “woke”.
putting fictional fandoms side by side with real life can display an unwillingness to acknowledge the real-world impacts of current events unless presented in a way that specifically appeals to you.
above all, listen to black voices.
(oh, and also: in the interest of raising up bipoc fanders, some wonderful blogs to start with might be @skyscrapersanddandelions, @mxnte, @lamp-calm-sanders, and @aleiimm. however, do not go asking these lovely folks to explain something to you/to provide you further resources. it is not their responsibility to personally educate you. i’m only linking them so that you may support them and -- i really can’t say this enough -- listen to what they have to say.)
#ask me anything#spec speaks#black lives matter#< am i allowed to use that tag even if my post isnt actually sharing resources? bipoc folks PLEASE feel free to correct me anytime#sanders sides#long post#swearing tw#racism tw#kn11t1ngb1mys3lf#discourse tw#ts discourse#< im sorry i seriously never wanted to have to use that tag when i started this blog#but i really cant pretend that everything is fine right now ya feel#on the bright side ive got some older posts queued for tomorrow#to give all yall some room to breathe#i will not stop talking about blm but for me to act like i have to put everything on pause right now would be treating it like a trend#< a trend thats eventually going to end. which its not. black lives will always matter#if ur still reading the tags i love you mwah mwah please take care of yourself mental health breaks are still important
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IMPORTANT PSA FOLLOWERS PLEASE READ
Hiya everyone, Feli here! So this is a really important PSA that I really need you all to read. I’ve rewritten and reworded this like a million times over the last few months so oof I hope this goes over well but here we go-
So this blog is a side blog that is mostly for Hetalia and where the main fandom I interact with in this blog is Hetalia it’s not the only one, and that’s gonna be an important factor. You see, about a year ago I made this side blog because I got back into Hetalia and wanted to post about it online. However, I knew of the discourse and I knew of the drama and I just didn’t want to be apart of it. I also knew that Hetalia made a lot of people uncomfortable (for valid reasons of course) and I decided I didn’t want that on my main blog. Ultimately it is not my job to be concerned with other people’s internet experience (things like blocking tags and following certain blogs is all up to the individual) but I do like to at least do what I can to make it easier on everyone and myself. So I made this one. However this blog was never really meant to be just Hetalia. Mainly Hetalia, yes, but not just Hetalia. If you remember I have actually posted stuff like South Park on this blog and an anime called Rosario + Vampire (SP needing no introduction but R+V is an anime where there’s no discourse mainly because there’s no fanbase it’s still a,,,, not very good show,,,,,) but of course neither of these ever stuck around long enough in my brain to make much of an impact on this blog so I never addressed it. (South Park might continue to pop up here and there it’s a very old hyperfixation and though I dislike the show these days I still like the characters and just have momentary brain rot ig.) Ultimately this was always meant to be what I call my ‘Discourse Blog’. A blog where I could quietly like content I know has major issues with it and is not well liked while both making sure others on my main blog don’t have to see it unless they want to and keeping any discourse off my main blog all together. (Still not sure if I wanna keep Homestuck stuff on this blog or my main tbh.) The reason I’m bringing this up is because lately I’ve been getting into some stuff that might start being on this blog a bit more often and I wanted to acknowledge it before just randomly doing it that way everyone is prepared and not confused. Please know this blog is still MOSTLY going to be Hetalia so you don’t have to worry about that. I’m still a nasty little Italy kinnie who only thinks about Germany’s hot man tits a good 85% of the day(/hj).
One of the things that might start popping up a bit more is Danganronpa. I’ll be real honest I don’t know why Tumblr’s purity police has such a vendetta against this game there is WAY worse anime out there that I rarely ever see people bitch about. But I started playing it and I like it (wish Kokichi was in the first game but apparently he’s not). I can see some of the issues people might have with it which is understandable so yeah if you wanna keep Danganronpa off your dash just block the tag.
The other thing (and arguably the one that makes me way more nervous and is why I kept putting off talking about it) is Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. Before you go get your pitch forks and shit let me just talk about this for a second. Yes Vivzie and the shows have very big obvious issues with them but, much like Hetalia, I don’t think it’s actually as bad as people make it out to be. I spent hours in the anti tags and just like Hetalia antis its just people making out things to be a lot worse than they are and throwing around words that really don’t need to be used in this situation. My honest opinion on Vivzie is she’s a woman who never grew out of her 2012 shock humor phase that came with watching too much South Park and she’s too prideful for her own good. She made dumb mistakes and did dumb shit and she did apologize for it all. Of course her apology post kinda sucked and when people bring stuff up she’s not exactly very graceful in her responses. But never the less she’s not the pedo transphobic satan spawn everyone makes her out to be (for more info on this drama and why I think what I think I highly recommend this video, he actively does his research and looks into everything really well and I agree with most of his points). And even if she was I’ve personally never been the kinda person to let people who work on or have made stuff stop me from liking it. I hate JK Rowling but still like Harry Potter, I don’t like Tony Anselmo but I still love Donald Duck. Letting others’ shitty mistakes and bad personalities dictate what I watch and how I live my life has never been the way I lived and I’m really not gonna start today. As for the shows themselves, yeah they got issues. Some of them, again, a bit drug out of proportion by the antis, but still issues none the less. Giving Alastor Voodoo is a big one (it leans into the constant negative connotation that Voodoo is always strapped with despite being a real world religion that actual people follow), Vaggie is very much a bad stereotype and even though Vivzie wasn’t trying to be racist (openly stating that as a Latina she wanted more firey Latina representation) it still has the potential to harm and upset Latino viewers, and then Angel Dust who is kinda a mess and honestly a big way she could have fixed him was just to keep him by his original version instead of changing so much about him (that honestly would need a whole separate post to explain).
So, yes, I acknowledge the issues and stuff in all this content and I’m very open and vocal about the issues just as I am with Hetalia. Liking these things doesn’t change that and I mostly made this post to make sure everyone knows that. But like I said before, your internet experience is up to you. If any of these things make you uncomfortable please do yourself a favor and block the tags. I promise I always keep things perfectly tagged on my blog down to the characters and ships. This isn’t gonna change. I’m pretty confident that no one here will take much issue with this. After all, if you like one of these things you know what it’s like to like things critically. If you have issues with anything on this post or me or anything I say or do come talk to me about it respectfully so no one is left thinking I’m some asshole for liking some dumb cartoon.
TL;DR This blog is gonna stay mostly Hetalia but it’s ultimately a blog for any content I don’t want on my main and if there’s anything you don’t like or that makes you uncomfortable please just block the tags and keep about your day happily
#PSA#vee~#im not giving this post any fandom tags cause i want it to stay out of those tags and be just for my followers to see#but seriously#please regulate your own internet experience#dont focus on stuff you dont like or stuff that makes you uncomfortable#itll only hurt yourself in the end#and if you have an issue with me my ask box and dms are always open (i normally keep dms to mutuals only but if its a serious issue its ok)#sssoooooo ya#have a good day yall ily
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Okay so tumblr did something super weird with the formatting and I couldn’t fix it; for some reason it had the page cut under the ask itself (as if the ask itself had the page cut in it) so I literally couldn’t edit it out and re-format it right. So I just took a screencap of the ask and I’ll respond via a standard textpost.
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/d0de406c114336b4f61b14d25d34e5fb/ddca80503ba8d801-1e/s540x810/51e05e7563ff4ddccc531711d2ef3c4cd7a48bb2.jpg)
Gonna give a little warning because I’m gonna be talking about child abuse a bit.
Glad to hear it, anon. :) I try to keep an open mind with these discussions.
Tbh, I kinda get uncomfortable with some of the stuff I've seen in her tag regarding Zuko especially. I've seen a handful of people kind of dismissing him as being whiny or sensitive, and I just don't really vibe with that. I don't have anything against any of the people I've seen posting it, but I just don't vibe with.
I'm also gonna take the opportunity to try to break some of the misconceptions about the Azula fandom by saying that I don't feel afraid or intimidated to kinda go against a good portion of the fandom in a sense. And that's because, fellow Azula fans have never really outcast me or tried to fight me for saying that I think that Azula's a bit of an abuser. The Azula fandom imo, isn't full of bullies and hateful people; everyone I have talked to has been very open to a nice discussion. I think that it just depends how you approach them with your arguments.
All of that said, Imma get back on topic here; It’s a little tough to talk about Azula's flaws sometimes because I feel like (though, thankfully this hasn’t happened on tumblr to me yet) that some people take pointing out flaws in your faves as bashing them or posting hate.
But honestly this is really cool to hear because back when I first opened up this blog I used to do that thing where I’d justify everything that my faves did, which was a bit of a problem because my faves are all antagonists! xD So there has been a lot of progress made.
I think that there are three main reasons that people have a hard time admitting that she’s an abuser too.
I think that the biggest one is that a lot of Azula fans lately have been massively on the defensive. There has been quite a bit of hate in her tag, there have been things said by the writers (taken the wrong way or not), there have been a lot of generalizations, and so on. And all of it kind of puts fans on the defensive. I see so many posts about how Azula is irredeemable and just the worst, most evil character in the show and so people kind of swing hardcore the other way (Azula did nothing wrong) to make up for all of the demonizing she gets. One extreme usually leads to another. Seeing Azula get so much shit, like being called a killer and a sadist, provokes the Azula is a cinnamon roll reaction. Basically when a fandom gets put on blast for being 'the crazy' or 'mean' side of the fandom, I feel like it creates a cycle where that part of the fandom starts to actually act meaner because they feel backed into a corner. The more they are called 'delusional' for seeing good in Azula the more radically they will start to defend that belief until the shades of grey start disappearing, if that makes sense.
But this is just a theory of course.
The second reason I think that people tend to dismiss the things she does do wrong is that there's this association with criticism and hate. And this goes beyond the Avatar fandom. In general I feel like people find it hard to say bad things about their favorite characters because they feel like they're bashing their character and/or they don't want people to think that they are being negative. Plus it's just kinda hard to say bad things about something you like/love. Speaking as someone who used to do this; I always felt really weird about or like I was being negative when admitting that things I like have flaws. I'm not exactly sure why I used to feel like this because it wasn't an, 'I seem myself in this character, so insulting them is like insulting me' thing because I usually have almost nothing in common with my faves. Idk, it's just always been way easier for me to find things I like in a character I hate than it is for me to find things I don't like in a character that I do. On a personal level, it might just be because I'd rather focus on liking things that I like than hating things that I hate?
I guess that I think that it's just easy to forget that 'I don't like xyz aspect of Azula' is not the same as 'I don't like Azula at all'. I think that it's possible to love a character but not love everything about them, just like real people; you can love your mom to death but there will always be those things about her that drive you nuts.
And really, imo, I think that fans who are able to see flaws with their faves are the ones who understand them the best. I'm definitely not saying that the people who don't see/acknowledge their fave's flaws don't understand their fave. But I think that they are missing out on very crucial aspects of their favorite character. If you like a character you should like them for what they are in canon, not what you want them to be or what they could be.
I see a lot of potential for growth in Azula. I see potential for a redemption arc and I do love what her character can be. But I also love her character as is. Currently in canon, she's manipulative and goal driven to the point where she has a disregard for people. Currently she's an antagonist and I love her for that. Because antagonist, unredeemed Azula is the character I liked in the beginning. I don't condone her being manipulative and I don't like that as a personality trait. But I do love it as far as, she is a fantastically written antagonist. And those cold, manipulative, abusive traits add to her complexity when juxtaposed against her own abuse, insecurities, and need to be loved.
And that's kind of what I mean when I say that, if you like Azula, you should like her despite the flaws. If that makes sense. I feel like people who say that she isn't an abuser (at least to some degree) kind of have a misunderstanding of her character. I think that one of the points of her character is to show that some abused kids don't come out okay. It's a tragic reality.
But with Azula I think that there's still room for her to change and start to break that cycle. I feel like she'd have a much harder time doing it than Zuko, because she has been subjected to his mental abuse in close range for much longer than he has. And I think that it would be something she'd struggle with her whole life, but I see good in her.
That said, I think that the third reason people have trouble seeing her as an abuse is because it is just really hard to see abuse victims become the abuser. I've mentioned before, but I come from a family where the chain ended with one of my parents. Said parent has told me many times how hard it was to fight that kind of upbringing. That's the real tragedy of abuse, it just goes on and on until you're mentally strong enough to fight yourself and break that chain. And the sad thing is, that some people just can't seem to do that. And I think that when discussing Azula, this comes into play a bit; it's just hard to look at even a fictional abuse victim and knowledge that they've become the abuser because it is all that they have known.
It's just a really hard topic and that's why it's so easy for discourse like this to get heated; a lot of people have an Azula in their lives or relate to her in some way.
Thanks for the ask, sorry it took so long to reply! I wanted to make it thoughtful and word everything the best that I can.
As always, everyone is welcomed to chime in and give their own opinions.
EDIT: There are a few things that I don’t think I was clear enough on with the initial post lol. First and foremost, I’m definitely not saying that these three reasons are the only reasons people don’t talk about Azula’s flaws. @wingsfreedom made a good point about differing ways of interpreting scenes. That’s another biggy.
The other thing I want to clarify is that I don’t think that Azula is a full on abuser. I think that she displays tendencies and does some abusive things. But I also don’t put her on the same level as Ozai. I feel like she’s a bit more merciful than him. Like Ozai is pretty much too far gone; he’s an abuser and his mind is set there. Azula, I think still has the capacity to break the chain. She’s not a lost cause. I also feel like she can be reasoned with more than Ozai. Ozai is all about power; Azula is motivated more by desperation (be it for her father’s love, to keep the last bit of control she has, and to keep her friends). It still leads to that harmful behavior, but I don’t think that she’s a lost cause like Ozai. Like, she has some abusive tendencies now, but I can also see her being able to break the chain under the right conditions. If that makes sense.
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LEX! Oh vaguely benevolent overlord of the Phandom! I beseech thee! Lend thine divine aid to the American Dragon Jake Long fandom! Please? Like for real here the Phandom has bee Ouroboros-ing ourselves for upwards of a decade, we have plenty of creative energy to spare and with how visible the fandom is what better way to give our friends a boost? Also it's a good show. Also the crossover potential. Also he's a dragon like come on. Anyway, organize a Jake long thing? We have so little content.
I have never seen any of that show, nor am I particularly emotionally invested in getting involved, but may I offer you some advice in these trying times?
1. Make the content, and make it consistently. Even if you think you’re bad at it or you think no one will see it, make it and post it anyways. You literally never know what will gain notes when.
2. Memes are your friend. While I do put a lot of effort into writing and music production, memes gain significant more traction to my blog than anything else. So if you wanna build a community, humor is a great way to do it. In the beginnings of my blog, I used to make memes with other people on the dp discord back when there was just a handful of us. It was a fun bonding activity!
3. Tag all your posts, and tag the content that you reblog. So many people never tag anything, but then complain when their stuff never gets discovered. Like, I browse the danny phantom tag all the time. If you draw something or make a meme, but don’t tag it, how tf am I or anyone else supposed to find it?
4. In terms of community events, start with small week long ones! Get a good tag for it, and then just try it! Sure, maybe the first time you throw an event, only a few people will participate. But then maybe the next event will have a few more people, and their followers will see it, and maybe some of those guys will wanna join, and then the next event is even bigger, etc.
5. Keep the drama off your blog. I mean, this goes without saying, but discourse is no fun for anyone. And although you may think you’re doing a great thing by trying to play mediator or whatnot, just don’t bother. Don’t engage, don’t give it life. If you treat it like it’s something so boring that you can’t even be bothered to look in its direction, then others will follow.
And that’s my wisdom for the day. The Phandom is so successful because we’ve built a community around this show, but the key thing here is the community aspect. Once upon a time that was angst for us, and now it’s memes. So find the thing that pulls people to your fandom (I personally have had success with memes), and then hit them with that sweet sweet art and fanfiction combo. Get a discord going, get a good mod team to help build it, and be careful not to devolve into a clique-y mess. Realize that people are gonna come and go, that’s normal and fine, just make sure they know that the door’s open if they ever wanna come back!
Good luck!
#lexx...gives good advice?#ask#also wanna say that i do NOT take credit for building the dp phandom#it was already here when i got here#i'd been reading their phiccs for years and didn't know they existed as a group#i was just like#oh hey#cool content#love me some dissection angst#and then at somepoint i saw everyone posting their tumblrs on ffn#and i was like oh i should check that out#and then the guac arc happened#and now im here
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Is the print publishing world picking up online/fandom terms? How they are using them? How do we feel about this?
So this is... attention-getting, for folks who like to follow publishing and meta stuff.
https://twitter.com/sapphicxrey/status/1215065948677443584
https://twitter.com/TorDotComPub/status/1233391556750647299
(2nd tweet -- TW, mentions of non-con)
Are we seeing the beginnings of book publishers directly borrowing from online/fandom culture in promoting their books? How do we feel about these examples?
More below cut.
Exhibit #1: screenshots of Bonds of Brass promo from Jan 8 2020. (Which is probably going to have reactions of “haha, cute” at most.)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/08d87652c6ac3247ef63fa8713989692/ba608029ae84a390-f4/s540x810/9a279defebcb970ffd94bbcf4323cd00e709c924.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/aa055ed36bd895bc41b73e77921f39ba/ba608029ae84a390-22/s540x810/52da812b18f63adce86e173eeb759119fa4b1ebc.jpg)
Transcript of blurb:
“If you like...
forbidden romances, “there’s only one bed”, cityships, weaponized umbrellas, powersuits, secret princes, best friends, best friends PINING, fake dating between PINING best friends, tactical streaking, the minivan of starships, cigar-chomping cyborg ladies, scary empress moms, galactic-level bisexual disasters, LEGACY (WHAT IS A LEGACY?), rooftop hopping, golden trios, rumblin’ drums, bootleg fireworks, BIG SPACE BATTLES PEW PEW, a surprisingly functional public transit system, mob trouble, one hell of a pilot, the inherent DRAMA of empire, a nice interlude in a river, smoking a joint that’s been on the floor, sick stunts, slick grifts, hiding in a dumpster, or any combination of the above,
Then you might like
BONDS OF BRASS”
The Twitter responses seem to be generally enthusiastic. (And also, “FinnPoe! FinnPoe!”)
Personally, I’m intrigued from a meta-view of “oh so that’s definitely pulling from online world and fanfiction world, interesting. I wonder how much fanfiction culture is starting to influence print book culture and promotion.” Maybe I’ve got some questions like, “Ok so moneymaking companies such as Penguin are now using culture developed by the not-moneymaking-world of fanfiction? How do we feel about this?” Anyway, the book looks cute, I’m interested enough and I might get it from the library.
I suspect many people’s reactions are along the lines of “hm, interesting”, “sounds like a lark”, or “haha they’re using AO3 tags as promo”, etc.
Exhibit #2, screenshots of DOCILE promo, from Feb 28 2020 (today is March 1 2020), and screenshots of Twitter responses so far:
(*CW, non-con discussion)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/1ec890b4b754c58cb677fa4b41825dab/ba608029ae84a390-2c/s640x960/40063542a3cb1d52514a7f3819c40de527a387b0.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/9675d59ea5205894881c5331ffb6cc89/ba608029ae84a390-3e/s540x810/83edab7a4117b538893acb9446e849ed849a8e23.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/3a2912f83e8ab16256d1170c364faffb/ba608029ae84a390-b0/s540x810/1c58588e07a03519803bfee1482f529957936ae4.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/5a88f5ff7ff29b064d54c46c7f8356a1/ba608029ae84a390-f7/s540x810/73320027c28a0318f1c7355975af97a8b5988bf8.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/4c5b99167be482a2a3a8bb0c9c92f74b/ba608029ae84a390-fb/s540x810/a7d3c15e0a07d92fcf4715a8085b7d3981b726fe.jpg)
Tweet transcript:
“DOCILE by @KMSzpara:
-Dubcon/Noncon
-Dramatic Trillionaire Content
-BDSM and then some more BDSM and then a lot more BDSM
-Hurt/comfort and hurt/no comfort
-Cinnamon roll of steel
-The most scandalous kink: love
-Courtroom, bedroom, & Preakness drama
[Tor book website link]”
So this is getting mixed reactions on Twitter. All dozen or so reactions, so far. Here’s text transcripts and bio info from repliers, below. I’m being a little obsessive, mostly to show that there’s a mix of queer, book-ish people in the replies (including the author).)
Noncon is nonconsentual sex, rape. Even in fandom it's a content tag, not a promotional term. I can't imagine being a rape survivor and seeing this come across my TL. -- @WriteSomeGood [queer rainbow] [Cis queer homemaker, aspiring author, maker of incredible cinnamon buns. She/her] [has a Tumblr page]
I’m not a survivor but it was an instant “no thank you” from me. And I was sincerely looking forward to this prior to. This is the most immediately off-putting marketing push I’ve seen for a book in a long damn time. -- @AGAWilmot [Author, editor, artist. Co-EIC of @anathemaspec. @SFU alum. The Death Scene Artist/W&W 2018. Ace/enby. They/them. Horror is my comfort food.]
Whichever intern wrote this tweet, deserves a full time job. With benefits. -- @simeontsanev [Aspiring writer, post-aspiring musician, and overall geek He/Him /[queer rainbow]/ To the world we dream about, and the one we live in now! http://simeontsanev.com]
Idk why everyone thinks it’s always an intern writing copy and not a team comprised of extremely skilled social media experts, editors, publicists and marketers, and their assistants I worked on those tags with my editor and a good friend!! -- @KMSzpara [Kellan. [queer rainbow] Speculative fiction writer. Queer agenda. Hugo & Nebula finalist. DOCILE 3/3/20 from Tor Dot Com Publishing. He/him. Rep @suddenlyjen] *The author, bio page and twitter page.
this is CUTE! -- @MSSciarappa [queer rainbow] I do books. he/him.
I am Extremely Ready for this content thank u -- @JessicaBCooper [Journo ☽ Writer of faerie, villain fuckery & cruel desires ☽ Lestat & Loki's love child ☽ Aleksander Morozova's side-hoe ☽ Rep'd by Kate Testerman @ktliterary]
I’m listening -- @MerynLobb [Government worker. Weightlifter. Nihilist. Aspiring cult leader. Avid user of words, often bad ones. #AMM R6 Mentee. she/her]
Soon! Soon!! -- @castrophony [Geek. Gamer. Cosplayer. Bibliophile. Scientist. She/Her.]
[happy reaction gif] -- @TorDotComPub [Providing a home for writers to tell SFF stories in exactly the number of words they choose. All our titles are available globally in print and DRM-free ebook.]
[throwing stuff in dumpster, unhappy reaction gif] -- @cursedgravy [name's xavi, im a transman and i like to daydream about making content]
For more context, here’s the blurb from the author website. Below is the blurb from the publisher’s site:
“Docile
K.M. Szpara
K. M. Szpara's Docile is a science fiction parable about love and sex, wealth and debt, abuse and power, a challenging tour de force that at turns seduces and startles.
There is no consent under capitalism.
To be a Docile is to be kept, body and soul, for the uses of the owner of your contract. To be a Docile is to forget, to disappear, to hide inside your body from the horrors of your service. To be a Docile is to sell yourself to pay your parents' debts and buy your children's future.
Elisha Wilder’s family has been ruined by debt, handed down to them from previous generations. His mother never recovered from the Dociline she took during her term as a Docile, so when Elisha decides to try and erase the family’s debt himself, he swears he will never take the drug that took his mother from him.
Too bad his contract has been purchased by Alexander Bishop III, whose ultra-rich family is the brains (and money) behind Dociline and the entire Office of Debt Resolution. When Elisha refuses Dociline, Alex refuses to believe that his family’s crowning achievement could have any negative side effects—and is determined to turn Elisha into the perfect Docile without it.
Content warning: Docile contains forthright depictions and discussions of rape and sexual abuse.”
So that’s a lot of info and reactions.
Personally: at first glance, I absently skimmed the tweet and “hurt/comfort” popped out, and I was like “What? Mainstream publishing is cool with this now? I was wondering if ‘hurt/comfort’ would one day become commonly used in publishing [related post]. But this is way sooner than I thought.” And then I read the rest of of the tweet and thought, “Wait, what?”
And then I started reading through the tweet replies and thought, “OK, at the risk of getting a bunch of Tumblr drama, I want to bring this to the whump community and see how people feel."
As for myself, one of my squicks is non-con, and I’m not really interested in hurt/no comfort. So just from the tweet, I know the book is not for me. The official blurbs confirmed that. In this sense, this is like skimming Ao3 tags on a fic and saying “pass” on a story.
However, I have questions about the specific promotion of the book. So the official blurbs are pretty standard. What about that tweet, which Tor (and the author, who helped put it together) put out? Because I think an official publisher’s Tweet comes with different context than Ao3 tags.
First, the different internet spaces. You can filter tags on Ao3 and Tumblr. I know you can mute words on Twitter, but is that the same thing? Also, would people be expecting these tags on Twitter? Compared to Ao3 or Tumblr or Tumblr Whump spaces?
Within the Tumblr Whump community, from what I’ve browsed, the community attitude (guidelines?) seem to be “Write and discuss what you want. Be sure to tag it, use content warnings, or otherwise clearly communicate if you have things that may be triggering. Respect people’s squicks/triggers. Walk away from what you don’t like.” Like, tumblr whump has a very specific culture of trying to balance discourse/stories about potentially very dark stuff, but also wanting to make sure the IRL people and Tumblr users are okay. There’s always posts going around about how to do this, are we doing this in the right way, ethics, so on. Also -- and people can correct me -- the whump tumblr space might be where tags are content warnings for people to stay away, and also what people might actively look for. So if any space is going to discuss if this promotional tweet checks out, I feel like it’s this space.
Also, to note again, Tor Tweets are in the money-official-publisher-world, not unpaid-tumblr-people or unpaid-fanfiction-fandom-world.
Maybe I just want to ask, “Hey those first two tweet responses, does they have a point? Tor using ‘noncon’ as official promotion? On Twitter?” I mean, I’ve previously written, “The CW and TW tags that Ao3 writers use, I really wish those were used with published books as well.” But somehow, the Tor tweet was not quite what I was expecting. Maybe for reasons similar to that first tweet response. (I guess one could debate if a tweet is really promotion or just information... you know what someone can correct me, but I’m gonna say that a Tor.com tweet is promotion, compared to information like Ao3, and that tweet was there for promotion.)
Those tags operate within specific Ao3 and Tumblr cultures and infrastructure. I don’t hang around Twitter for whump stuff, IDK what the culture is. Anyway, does dropping these tags into a promotional tweet from Tor.... translate?
The tweet is evidently gathering the people who are there for it, and the people who aren’t there for it are quickly realizing that they are not there for it. But personally, the Tor website blurb does a better job at that, using writing that I’d expect from a publisher for communicating fictional non-con situations. (Maybe the blurb content warnings are what I wanted more of, when I said I wished for CW and TW in books.)
Anyway, there’s no huge drama about that Docile book promo on Twitter, as far as I can tell. So this is a niche thing, right now. But. The promo for Bonds of Brass and for Docile might be the beginnings of a trend of well-known book publishers borrowing from online writing / fandom culture and terminology in order to promote or categorize their books. These two promos might set a precedent or have other significance.
So if anyone has discourse on the tweets or potential future trends...
#meta#discourse#publishing#bonds of brass#Docile#publishers#future trends#maybe#non-con#trigger warnings#content warnings#fanfiction#ao3#tumblr#whump#hurt/comfort#hurt/no comfort#books
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Final Fantasy VII Remake Review
I’ve officially finished the game and I have soooo many thoughts and theories and emotions, so imma jump right in about what I loved, what I wanted more of, what I disliked and what I want to see for part 2. This is gonna be long, but Spoilers below the cut! (also I am not including anything about ships in this)
What I enjoyed/loved:
Characters:
Like with FFXV, I think this games biggest strengths lie with it’s characters (unlike FFXV, I think the story has the potential to be strong too, but I’ll get to that later).
It goes without saying that for me this is the best characterization of Cloud Strife since the original game. I really love the character development we see with him just within part one (we see him go from lovable jerk to really caring about his companions and making the effort to listen to them and comfort them, even if it’s not easy for him and he struggles a lot). I really have a soft spot for characters like that and I think it’s done really well here.
Tifa Lockhart is BEST GIRL! I have so much love for this girl and she’s hands down my favorite to play as (I even made her the leader in the fights because I can don’t @ me). Tifa shows that you can have your cake and eat it too, in that she can be gentle, considerate, kind, and even shy at times, but she still takes names and kicks butt; she doesn’t have to sacrifice who she really is to be considered a bad*ss female character. I think her character is greatly expanded on here than in the original and we get to see just how everything affects her and not just Cloud (which is important since they have been through a lot of the same traumatizing events).
I always thought Barret Wallace was an interesting character, especially seeing his backstory in the original game (something I can’t wait for in the next installment). Here, it’s down 10x better and I love every second he’s on screen. I’m very excited to see how that Black and White morality view he has on the world will be broken down and really put a strain on how he view himself and the things he’s done. I also adore to the heavens his relationship with little Marlene. Also the way he starts to Dad towards Cloud 😭😭😭
Now on the the best character of the entire game. Mere words cannot express how much I adore Aerith Gainsborough. Her characterization is a god-send that I definitely wouldn’t have appreciated had I not looked into other FFVII properties and saw the disservice they do to her. Fortunately for us, in Remake, Aeirth is everything we originally loved about her and more. She’s got a mischievous and sassy side that I adore and just love how she plays off of Cloud. Their interactions were so sweet and genuine and got quite a few laughs out of me.
Other characters:
Um where to start. First of all, Avalanche. I can relate to Jessie on spiritual level because I too thirst for Cloud Strife. All said and done though, he characterization is great and she’s a lot of fun. Her backstory is good too and her relationship with the rest of Avalanche is very genuine. And I love Biggs and Wedge with all my heart. I overall think the expanded character development for these 3 is spot on and really makes their “deaths” hit hard.
Marlene Wallace is a precious baby and I can cry all day about how precious her scenes with Barret are😭😭😭😭
Red XIII is the best boy and he’s hilarious. I can’t wait to delve more into his backstory when we get to Cosmo Canyon.
The Side characters in Wall Market are some of the best in the game. They're all interesting and I really hope we see more of them.
I hate everyone at Shinra HQ but also Reeve is a good boy, but also screw Hojo x10, but also Scarlet can step on me, but also THE TURKS (where tf is Elena😭), but also SCREW HOJO, bust also that Kunsel/Crisis Core reference tho, but also Rufus Shinra CAN GET IT.
I said it before, but Sephiroth is actually very intimidating (not that he wasn’t in his other appearances, especially Advent Children) but hoo boy, the way we actually see how it terrifies Cloud really makes it stick for me. Sephiroth can get it too don’t @ me.
Story/Other:
I know a lot of long-time and even recent fans won’t agree, but I thought the story was very, very good. Don’t get me wrong, it’s flawed, but would I have honestly been happy with a shot-for-shot high definition update with some expansion here and there? Yeah probably, but I know how that story goes.
I think doing a complete 180 to the story we know is a huge risk that I have hopes will pay off. I really love the idea that by changing fates of certain characters for the better (ie. Zack, Biggs, maybe Jessie and Wedge), Cloud and the others may have doomed themselves to an even worse fate with Sephiroth and I absolutely love that I don’t know where it’s going to go from here. I mean, I sure we’ll still get our fan favorites like Costa del Sol, the Gold Saucer, Yuffie, Vincent, Cid and ELENA, but we’re in for so many twist and turns and whatever the heck Zack being alive will do to the universe (or alternate universe? Idk I have theories).
My favorite areas in the game were the Sector 7 Slums, Aerith’s House, Wall Market, the Collapsed Expressway and Shinra HQ.
I think the voice acting is good, and for some character’s it’s great. The main cast (Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Barret, Red XII and Avalanche) is VERY GOOD and the major side characters are good too. I already know there is discourse about Sephiroth and Zack’s English VA’s so I’m not sharing my opinion right now on that.
Also the soundtrack is god-tier. I cannot stop listening to “Hollow” and hearing updated renditions of tracks from the original soundtrack somehow made me nostalgic for a game I only started playing last year. It’s top-notch imo.
What I didn’t like:
There’s nothing in the game I genuinely hated to the point where it ruined things for me.
I did enjoyed the second half of the sidequest for Sector 5 Slums (when you have Tifa and Barret back in your party), but the other sidequest were either annoying or hit and miss.
There’s also the issue with padding and certain areas seeming to go on forever. I really liked the Train Graveyard, for the first 20 minutes and after that it kinda dragged on too long for me (we had like two major boss fights in that one area😩) especially when the next major story part was the drop of the Sector 7 plate. I did love the little scene with Aerith waiting to be found; that was really good.
I also am confused about the back and forth about how much Aerith may know about her and the others’ fates. At times, it seems like she knows much more than she’s letting on and other times, she either really doesn’t know or she subconsciously is aware of something, but I guess it’s to be revealed.
Enough people have commented about the graphics and npcs in certain scenes (you know what I mean) so imma just say that at best it’s hilarious and at worse it’s very distracting.
What I want to see next and my overall rating for part 1:
As expressed before, I’m excited to see how much the story diverges and if the Arbiters of fate are really gone. I just feel like there’s more than Sephiroth pulling the strings here, but who knows. I also can’t wait for more references to Crisis Core (if ya’ll show me Kunsel I’ll cry) and I definitely hope we get more scenes of Zack and Cloud in the, I guess, alternate reality? Also playable Red XIII and If ya’ll think i’m thirsty for the characters in this game, just want until Vincent freakin’ Valentine shows up.
All and all, I think I can confidently rate part one with a solid 9/10. It’s flawed, but it’s going in such an unexpected direction I didn’t anticipate that I’m left hungry for more. The characters are stellar and the expansion of certain parts of the game is amazing. I cannot wait for part two guys. I hope you all found something to enjoy too. Now I’m in the process of replaying it along with some other games I need to finish. I’ll still be tagging spoilers for now (ffvii remake spoilers)
#ffvii remake spoilers#ffviir#final fantasy vii remake#final fantasy vii#cloud strife#tifa lockhart#sephiroth#barret wallace#aerith gainsborough#ffvii#games#final fantasy#*c.r post*
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(pt.1) Hi, Sien! I'm a little embarrassed to be asking this, but I need advice. So I've made this rp that I'm super proud of and I have all these ideas in mind for events, tasks, and plot drops, but there's one problem. I am SO anxious about hitting the tags. Once I put my rp out there, it could either get ignored completely, maybe get two apps or so and then flop, or criticized (not constructive criticism, but people just being mean for no reason). Plus I'm so intimidated by the rpc in general.
(pt.2) I can be like, "yeah, I'm gonna hit the tags," then I go into the rph tags and see one discourse or another, and then I'm like, "never mind." Do you have any advice on how to overcome this? Thank you <3
❞ HI SWEETHEART !! It is not embarrassing at all, do not even worry about that. I completely get being intimidated and scared of hitting the tags and sharing your hard work with the roleplay community -- but you always have to remember that there are a lot of supportive and amazing people in it, who are always looking for a new places to roleplay and potentially find a home in. You should like a caring and dedicated admin, with lots of amazing ideas which a lot of other admins might not even have when they open their group. I would suggest looking at it like this: you have this amazing group ready, and you have all these ideas and have put in so much work. If you don’t open it to the community, you lose either way... Because all the effort, all the ideas, everything will be for nothing ?? So the outcome cannot be worse than that when you do decide to open it ?? Because if it doesn’t take off, worst case scenario, at least you tried ?? But to be fair, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, dear. When opening a group, I always suggest promo, promo, promo. Send in shoutout requests to rph’s. Set up a queue to flood the tags and get your group out there. And don’t give up when there isn’t interest the very first second -- a lot of groups need some time before the apps start to flow in. And if you are scared of getting involved in drama... Well, all I can say on that is don’t allow your group to become part of that. I know it’s easier said than done but... if you are open-minded, and you are willing to listen to members ( or potential applicants who have an issue with something ) and you are willing to go into conversation and make adjustments where needed... I don’t see why anyone would hold anything against you or your group. Just make sure to listen, and be willing to take criticism ( that is not hate -- you should never condone hate !! ) and go into conversation to see how you can imrpove and grow and learn. I know all of this sounds a bit obvious but honestly ?? I think that is the key. But I honestly would not hold out on hitting the tags -- If you worked so hard for it, dear, go for it !! You have nothing to lose, really. And you might always regret not going for it. I wish you the best of luck, if you ever need any help feel free to let me know, hun !! Xoxo
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A complete guide to how the asexual community is NOT lying about the pathologization of asexuality and how many aces(even young ones)have had their asexuality tried to be“fixed” and “converted back to normalcy”
Trigger warning : Conversion therapy,abuse
As if the so called ace “”discourse””( which has till now involved aphobes and exclusionists comparing ace people to nazis,pedophiles,white supremacists,slave owners,homophobes, ,talking over ace WOC by white people, telling ace people AND kids to kill themselves,victim blamig and gaslighting ace victims of rape, putting extremely graphic sexual content into asexual tags and sending sexual content to ace minors and adults who are are suffering from sexual trauma even after they told them to STOP ) could not get any worse, we now have these pathetic excuses of human beings accusing ace people of lying about their trauma and abuse just so that they can justify their harassing of ace people.
Im TIRED of seeing these “”highly intellectual people”” keeps repeating bullshit arguments so im gonna make this post addled with appropriate resources and links to handle these two topics:
How asexuality is pathologized
Can the abuse and trauma ace people go through when people try to “convert ace people back to normalcy” and “fix” their asexuality really be called “conversion therapy”?
This is gonna be long,but i hope you will stick with me though this because im going to try as much as possible to make this as source-fuilled and educational for yall. So here we go:
1. Has asexuality really been pathologized?
Short answer,Yes. Many mental health professionals had consideredasexuality an illness throughout history.There are many articles talking about it.Up till 2013, indicators of asexuality like lack of sexual attraction,sexual fantasies towards other people, lack of interest in sex etc were basically classified as Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in the DSM which was revised just to include that all those indicators WOULD be considered as a “symptom” of HSDD unless a person self identified as “asexual” which wasnt much useful since not everyone(especially young people) might know that they are ace and can be pressured by their peers into going through the “treatment” for HSDD .They did the same thing before they removed homosexuality from the DSM.
Heres the long answer :
Throughout history , asexuality has brought out bigots to talk about how “unnatural” it is and how it obviously is a “mental illness/disorder” bc experiencing sexual attraction is always considered an inherent experience to almost all living beings.There are many medical and psychological articles either directly referring to asexuality as a disorder or referring its main indicators like “lack of sexual attraction,sexual feelings towards other people”etc as a mental disorder.
But the most well known instance of pathologization of asexuality is the HSDD (Hypoactive sexual desire disorder).It has been in both The International Classification of Diseases and Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders both which are used by mental health professionals and psychologists to diagnose people.
There was a huge pushback against HSDD by asexual activists bc it categorized all indicators of asexuality like lack of sexual attraction,sexual fantasies towards other people and lack of sexual desire etc as a disorder.As a result, asexuality was officially given an exception in the DSM-V by stating that if a person experiencing all the symptoms of HSDD self ID’d as asexual then they wont be diagnosed with it.This seemed a good enough thing to do and acephobes keep bringing it up to show how “different HSDD is from asexuality” and how “The medical world has “”accommodated”” itself for the comfort of ace people” but this act and the whole concept of a “Hypoactive sexual desire disorder” are considered problematic and have been put through questions not only by ace people, but feminists and activists too . Heres why :
1. The person STILL has to identify as asexual to be not diagnosed.Asexuality still isnt as visible and well known of an orientation so if a person doesn’t know that they’re asexual, the DSM does no work to sufficiently differentiate between these “sexual disorders” and a sexual identity. so it could very well happen that someone who doesn’t know that they’re asexual is convinced by a therapist that they have a sexual abnormality that needs to be corrected(x) .Taking into consideration the fact that a lack of sexual attraction is still seen as a sign of “brokenness” etc , the aphobia ace people face from their peers,how sex is seen an inherent part of one’s relationship and the immense number of ace people who experience internalized aphobia, theres a higher chance of ace people being pressurized into lying about not being ace and being made to go through treatment of HSDD .
2. The asexuality exception is not included in the diagnostic criteria, but a different part of the text. The desk reference version, which is the smaller version most psychiatrists will use because the actual DSM is a monster of a book, only contains the diagnostic criteria. So, unless a doctor is very familiar with the update DSM, you could still be diagnosed despite identifying as asexual. (X)
3.The DSM is put out by the APA, an American organization and is not used internationally in ALL countries.The international appx. equivalent to the DSM is the ICD (International Classification of Diseases) where an exception of asexuality is NOT made like they did in DSM-V. So many countries where DSM-V is not followed are free to diagnose ace people with almost no repercussions.
4.There is till NO distinction made between HSDD and asexuality and all indicators of asexuality are still considered “symptoms” of HSDD. the DSM does no work to sufficiently differentiate between these “sexual disorders” and a sexual identity. so it could very well happen that someone who doesn’t know that they’re asexual is convinced by a therapist that they have a sexual abnormality that needs to be corrected(x) Just putting “All these signs are of HSDD unless a person identifies as asexual” is literally the same as saying “Being attracted to the same gender and/or being attracted to more than two genders is a disorder unless a person identifies as gay/bi”.In fact a very very similar thing was done to homosexuality in the DSM before homosexuality was deleted off entirely as a disorder.
5.Im not even gonna get into the fact that alot of people have pointed out how the big push to keep HSDD in the DSM came from the pharmaceutical companies who need this diagnosis to exist so thatthey can market a drug called Flibanserin and both of these thingshave been called out by both ace as well as non ace feminists bc studies showed it improved very little in terms of sexual satisfaction in its participants and has potentially big risks(x) and MANY women disinterested in sex(weather ace or not) were pressurized to undergo treatment of HSDD and use flibanserin bc of the misogynist belief that women need to put out more than care about their safety white taking it bc thats not the point of this post.
But just for yalls consideration : Just bc there is a disorder in the DSM doesnt mean that its legit.Female hysteria,homosexuality were considered disorders.As an amazing post here said : “until psychology stops operating in terms of “inappropriate behavior” and starts looking at patients’ experiences of symptoms as stressful and unpleasant, it will be an enforcement of ableism first and an aid to the mentally ill last.” . Unless someone goes through some trauma which make them LOSE their capability to feel sexual attraction and desire,i’ll consider any “disorder” which automatically assumes lack of sexual attraction and desire “unnatural”, as doubtful .
So yeah , asexuality still technically remains pathologized and ace people still are at a risk of being diagnosed and being forced/pressurized to undergo treatments which arent usually even that effective and have health risks associated with them.On to the next topic :
2.Can ace people call the trauma and abuse they went through when people tried to “convert ace people back to normalcy” and “fix” their asexuality “conversion therapy”?
First off, Read THIS And THIS. Now,
Short answer,Yes. Maybe they might not be under the threat of going through the EXACT conversion therapy which involves basically torture and is legal in like 36/41 states IN AMERICA but then again, so arent those gay people who didnt/dont/wont be living/going to those 36/41 states IN AMERICA but have/are/will be tried to be “converted back to” straightness by their peers.Any way in which non straight people are forced/pressurized to be converted into straight by so called “professionals” and “medical experts” counts as conversion therapy to me bc at the end of the day it doesnt really matter WHAT word you define it as when those trying to “fix” non straight people’s non straightness view those non straight people as someone who needs “fixing”.
Also, saying that ace people’s experience when their peers were trying to “fix” their asexuality isnt AS bad as what gay people go through when their gayness is tried to be “fixed” is…not a good thing to say.Trauma isnt a competition.Telling a person with a sprained leg that another person has a fractured leg doesnt make the first person’s sprained leg hurt any less
Heres the long answer :
Here is the thing.The most “well known” conversion therapy(and in aphobes’ case,the conversion therapy they keep bringing up to discourage ace people from calling their trauma involving attempts to fix them “conversion therapy” ) is the one which is legal in 36 or 41(The data keeps differing from diff sources) states in AMERICA ONLY and basically involves showing homoerotic images and videos to gay/bi people and inflicting some sort of violence/harm on them when them and/or their mind and/or their body shows any sort of interest on such images till they form an aversion to same gender attraction and other forms of torture.I described it as PG rated as possible but if anyone is interested and is NOT at the risk of being triggered they can read the whole process here(x).
Aphobes keep arguing that since no clinic advertises that they will “convert ace people back to normalcy” ,and even IF some ace person IS forced to undergo treatment of HSDD ,their experience doesnt matches the EXACT amount of abuse and trauma gay people go through during conversion therapy, aces arent “allowed” to call their experiences “conversion therapy”.Now , anyone with common sense and general morality will realize how bullshit this is bc aphobes are just putting their american centric rhetorics over ALL aces in THIS WORLD(bc they are ALWAYS considering the american conversion therapy)but i’ll still just prove how WRONG this argument is :
1.This argument is only AMERICA CENTRIC.Aphobes keep saying that since ace people dont go through the exact conversion therapy which is legal in 36/41 states in america,they cant call it “conversion therapy”.Now america is only one country.There are 193 countries in this world.The “valid”Conversion therapy is only there in america.But HOMOPHOBIA is there in ALL countries of this world.Now, If we consider aphobes’ argument as legit, then it would imply that any gay person who suffered through the trauma and abuse of having their identity turned into “straight” by their peers in any country OTHER THAN AMERICA CANNOT call their experiences “Conversion therapy”.That means all the gay people who faced torture in russia (especially in Chechnya)to be “fixed” cannot call their experiences “conversion therapy”.Gay people in Brazil and Jamaica who are tried to be “fixed” cannot call their experiences conversion therapy.I live in south asia,we dont even HAVE any special places dedicated to “convert” gay people.But there are many instances where gay people are hauled to the nearest “religious medical practitioners” who abuse and torture them for WEEKS to “cure” them.I guess those gay people cant even call their experiences “conversion therapy”.THIS IS HOW RIDICULOUS APHOBES SOUND.
2.Not every ace conversion therapy is caused by going through the treatment of HSDD : There are many ace people who have been told that it was their asexuality ITSELF that was a disorder and went through abusive therapies to “cure” it which led to some people ending up self-isolating until they ended up in a psych hospital and some people felt broken and alone after that(x).Many health professionals simply pass off asexuality as some symptomatic of deeper mental health problem and thus not every ace who might have been tried to be “converted back to normalcy” might have been gone through quite a rough treatment too.
3.Telling people that their trauma isnt “”really that bad”” isnt a good thing.Telling them that their trauma dosent really “”qualify”” enough to be considered “”real”” conversion therapy isnt good.Oppression and traumas arent a competition.The abuse and torture gay people go through during conversion therapy isnt gonna make the trauma ace people go through “better” or less severe.Telling women that “at least they arent being human trafficked and beaten by their husbands everyday like in middle east” isnt gonna make them feel better when they are catcalled or sexually harassed at work.If ace people are tried to be “”fixed”” by being forced/pressurized undergo “” treatments”” by so called “professionals” and “medical experts” , it counts as conversion therapy to me bc at the end of the day, ace people’s orientation is still being seen as “something to be fixed into straightness”.
So yeah, ace people CAN call all the abuse they go through to be “fixed” of their asexuality “conversion therapy”.Now that we are done, here are a few examples of ace people talking about their fears and/or experiences about conversion therapy which i havent provided already
If you really want to respect lgbtqa people who have gone through conversion therapy,try to make this world a better place for lgbtqa people so that their identity isnt seen as something to be fixed.Telling group of people you are bigoted against that they cant call their experiences of tried to be fixed “conversion therapy” isnt gonna do SHIT to help the community you think you are trying to protect.Saying that No ace person has EVER went to conversion therapy bc there are “valid proofs” is disgusting.
Asexuality IS a highly marginalized orientation and all your refutes against it WILL be debunked and shot down bc we have sources and real people’s accounts on our sides which is supported by many prominent lgbtqa organizations across the world.All aphobes have is bigotry and a bunch of followers who eat up whatever they say without applying any critical thinking skills to it.
#aphobia#tw conversion therapy#mod roma#ref#tw abuse#if you want this tagged with more triggers please tell me i will#i dont have time rn coz i gotta do something#imp
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