#irl red flag

[hotvampireadjacent]

debate pervert with a pepe icon blocked.

[bowenoke]

we talk a lot about how current kids, teenagers, and parents never learned internet safety in this age of social media, but i think we also gotta be honest with ourselves that most of us, adults on the internet who participate in fandom, never really learned how to engage with young people without setting them up for disaster.

might be weird to say it like this, but it's important to leave people how you met them or better. like hiking or going to a nature reserve. if you are regularly talking to people on the internet, especially teenagers, you need to consider whether your behavior with them is how another, shittier person would take advantage of them, because you have no real way of protecting them if that happens. like if you're going into discords and saying 'hey i'm mom! let me help you with your homework and irl issues. also please feel free to vent to me if you have any mental health issues or problems at home" you have to understand that the next person who says that to them may be leaving out the end of their plan; "that would make you easier to abuse."

sometimes you have to say "you seem fun and have a lot of great ideas but you are also 15, so if you wanna talk fandom, here are the boundaries we're going to follow, because these are the boundaries other adults should be following with you." or just refuse to talk to kids.

you decide what your responsibility, is but what you can't do is build an illegal fire pit on the hiking trail, if you catch my drift.

[punkeropercyjackson]

"If villain bad,why sexy?"Because you are not immune to propaganda.And also think beauty only exists within cis and/or white standards

[jacepi-time]

Y'all are getting way too comfortable celebrating peoples deaths and I don't mean specifically the whole debacle that just happened , I mean that tumblr has such a bloodlust if like idk Chris Pratt died everyone would be cheering like he was Hitler incarnate, like ,,, you do realize this is mentally unwell behavior???? and is also affecting how people treat fellow users they find annoying to just wish them death, when did death become something we want for people? that's literally evil

[comikadraws]

Was the curse of hatred actually a real thing? or did danzo just demonize the uchiha;s anger? idk, being murderously angry or just angry in general is a reasonable and human response to oppression and genocide.

The "Curse of Hatred" Analysis

An interesting question. The Curse of Hatred looks dumb at first glance but there are also many misconceptions surrounding it.

Since it is such a hot mess to begin with, I will try to focus mostly on the in-universe canon and lore rather than making it even more complicated by bringing in too much real-world logic and criticizing Kishimoto.

There's a bunch of rambling in the tags though.

Kishimoto's Intentions

Whenever we talk about the "Curse of Hatred" the fandom will usually apply terms such as "racism", "bigotry" and "pseudoscience" - particularly in reference to Tobirama.

Again, I don't want to bring too much irl logic into this but I feel like we need to make a clear distinction between intention and interpretation over here. "[insert character] was a racist" and "the Uchiha were justified" is a valid interpretation of the story. But at the same time, I doubt that this was ever intended by Kishimoto.

I have talked about this at length in another post of mine, in which I analyzed Kishimoto's most likely intent and how exactly this information is relevant to us with a look at authorial intent in fiction. But the TL;DR version is that Japan is not exactly very sensitized to themes of racism and the "Curse of Hatred" is never framed as racist propaganda but exposition only. The lore also lines up with Kishimoto's personal views on how grudges are responsible for war (instead of corruption or racism) and the Uchiha's curse might be a metaphor for that.

In other words, the Curse of Hatred is real in canon. Even if it's a massive red flag and deserves to be criticized.

What Is The "Curse of Hatred" Even?

I have to admit, it's been a while since the last time I watched Naruto from start to finish, so I had to use the sources listed by the wiki rather than relying on my own findings and I might be biased. Because of that, I'd prefer everybody to regard my findings as headcanon or interpretation (especially further toward the end) rather than undisputed fact.

As far as I remember, the exact wording "Curse of Hatred" is only ever used by Obito. While not using the same wording, the curse is also referenced by Itachi, Hagoromo, and Tobirama who each have their own understanding of it. Unfortunately, we have no idea where exactly this wording or concept originated and we have no idea what exactly causes the Curse of Hatred that Obito refers to.

Hiruzen, Koharu, Homura, and even Danzo, while potentially influenced by Tobirama's teachings, do not reference the Curse of Hatred at all, at least not in relation to the Uchiha Clan itself.

Now here's the first one of my findings: The Curse of Hatred is supposed to be some sort of involuntary biological or cultural inclination causing Uchihas to become consumed by hatred but it is also something voluntary - a Nindo. While the former could be considered a "curse" in the traditional sense, the latter is definitely not.

For the Nindo, it is supposed to be some sort of antithesis to the Will of Fire. Because of that, it is not limited to the Uchiha but, according to Tobirama and Obito, closely associated. As explained later on in this post, most Uchihas do not follow this Nindo.

Core aspects of the Curse of Hatred as a Nindo:

Valuing a precious few above the many

Directing your hatred at those who took away your precious few

Growing stronger from those feelings of hatred (for the Uchiha, reflected in the form of the Sharingan)

A Biological Inclination?

Now back to Tobirama's theory, due to the narrative framing, we will assume his words to be truthful for the sake of this analysis. However, I will provide links to other people's posts delving into the fantasy racism discussion.

Tobirama is racist and his theories cannot be trusted.

Tobirama is not racist and there is validity to his theories.

I myself do not completely agree with either of these, but they might be interesting reads for you. If you do not agree with either of them, please keep it to yourself and do not bother the original creators.

Tobirama's theory goes as follows:

The Uchiha feel love and hate more strongly than other individuals

The strength of the Sharingan and the Uchihas' hatred are correlated

In a fit of hatred, odds are an Uchiha will commit evil

It is nowhere mentioned that the Uchiha are more likely to feel hate - only that their hatred is worse than the average person's and puts them at risk of being swayed by hateful ideologies.

A Cultural Inclination?

Aside from Tobirama's theory, multiple characters comment on the historical origin behind the Curse of Hatred.

We are talking, of course, about Indra. Obito explains that Indra's values and his hatred (particularly what later became the Nindo of the Curse of Hatred) were passed down to his descendants - the Uchiha clan. Tobirama's exposition implies the same thing.

Tobirama states that there "used to be a thought that [...] the basis of the Uchiha clan's strength was the power of their jutsu". It is very similar to Hagorormo's description of his son.

If this is correct, that would mean that the importance placed on powerful jutsu by the Uchiha Clan does inadvertently promote hatred due to the close correlation between hatred and the Sharingan.

But then again, in the story, it is shown that many Uchiha were not particularly fond of perpetuating hate and it is also implied that to avoid hatred, they sealed their emotions away. My interpretation is that they recognized the pain that hate could cause and then took steps to avoid it.

The Reincarnation Cycle

Sticking with Indra, another explanation that is frequently brought up is Indra's and Ashura's reincarnation cycle, which has also been described as curse-like or haunting and neverending. A fate seemingly set in stone.

There is not much more to say, other than that this theory suggests that Indra's reincarnates are just naturally inclined towards lusting for power.

The True Origin

Now, here's another thing that's constantly being overlooked. Aside from Obito's exposition in chapter 462 on the Curse of Hatred Nindo, Tobirama's exposition in chapter 619 on the Uchiha's tendency to follow said Nindo, and even Hagoromo's exposition on the reincarnation cycle in chapter 670, we get a vital piece of exposition in chapter 681.

Ladies, gentlemen, and anything in between. May I introduce to you...

...the real Curse of Hatred.

Or at the very least what I believe is the real reason why the "Curse of Hatred" exists in the world of Naruto.

From the very beginning, Zetsu approached Indra to take advantage of his hatred and turn it into a tool for his own purposes. He then did that again and again. He focused on the Uchiha in particular - Either because of the previously mentioned reasons (i.e. the Uchiha / incarnates have a tendency to become obsessed with hatred and power) or because the Uchiha were otherwise easy to take advantage of / manipulate (through Hagoromo's stone tablet that was left in the Uchihas' possession, an ill reputation thanks to Indra's / their ancestors' actions, etc).

In order to achieve his goal (awakening a Rinnegan), he had to somehow combine both Indra's and Ashura's power. It is implied that for this purpose, he instigated, perpetuated, and escalated wars and conflicts between Senju and Uchiha by pitting their reincarnates against each other. But unlike the wars he caused, Zetsu went unnoticed by the history books. Basically, he kept haunting the clans like a curse.

And without a doubt, had Zetsu never been there, 99% of the Uchihas' problems would not exist - regardless of what ideals, genes, or history the Uchiha hold. Indra's declaration of war, centuries of conflict, Madara's defection, Obito losing Rin, the Kyubi attack, the Uchiha massacre, Sasuke's defection, the 4th Great Shinobi War. All of these were directly caused by Zetsu or set off by a resulting chain reaction.

You could even think this further. Assuming the Uchiha clan really came across as "cursed", perhaps Tobirama's, Obito's, Hagoromo's and everybody else's explanations were just desperate attempts to make sense of anything. They didn't know that Zetsu was pulling the strings, so perhaps they tried to explain the Uchiha Clan's history in some other way. One that made sense without that missing variable.

What is actually going on here is, of course, uncertain. There are basically no definitive explanations on the matter and right now it looks like all of the above could be true and at the same time none.

[aro-culture-is]

aro culture is hating the "ill make you fall in love" trope (especially when the character who's being said this never felt romantic attraction for anyone so far)

.

[scrunckled-idiot]

i need to fucking scramble engineer grrrrr i need to throw him around the room by his arms and chew him like a dog toy i need- i NEED to fukhing like grrgaggaaarrraggahararagafa i need to rip his fingers off and ggghhhaaragagahararagha I NEED TO CHEW THIS MAN I NEED TO CUT OFF HIS ARMS AND LEGS AND REDUCE HIM TO NUGGET FORM AND GIVE HIM A LITTLE LOVING KITH ON THE FOREHEAD AGGARAGAGAGHHRREGHEGGGGRRRRRRGHGGAGAAGRRRRHHAAARAGAHA I NEED TO DEMOLISH HIMMMMMMM

[trash-and-trash-accessories]

If you are invited to speak on a panel about trans rights or trans issues and you look around and there are no trans men in the room, you shouldn't do that panel, or you should start asking a lot of questions. Don't accept a bullshit "no trans men wanted to be here" answer. Trans men want to be part of their own community. They're actively kept out and swept under the rug and you have the power to say "Where are our brothers?"

[cctinsleybaxter]

I am truly haunted by someone saying on a (long since abandoned) book podcast that the love interest not liking dogs in romance novels is rarer than pseudo-incest in romance novels

[nonasbirthday]

t shirt for firefighter gideon

[nonbinaryezri]

oh my godddd why is trying to find a hookup in the midwest as a queer person SO difficult 😭 i swipe and get "looking for the beast to my beauty 🤪" or "looking for a 3rd for me and my boyfriend!!" or just the most basic white bitch ever that you aren't sure is even queer

[functionalasfuck]

Didn’t get to watch the Sign until late but, Phaya has not met a single one of Tharn’s boundaries and not gone “is anyone going to immediately cross that?”

[heroesriseandfall]

I know it is likely the result of yet more story writers just not knowing anything about modern archaeology. but every time Jack Drake or even Bruce Wayne keep an artifact in their own possession that legally and ethically they should not get to keep (especially without paying mind to how well it’s stored), and nobody in the comic says anything about it, I go a little more nuts.

Jack Drake canonically being an “amateur archaeologist,” emphasis on amateur because he really just dug up an ancient artifact in Asia then took it home as a gift to his fiancé. And then he kept another artifact in a dirty storage closet. You can tell he is a rich businessman with a hobby interest in archaeology rather than anything else.

[oumaimas]

"your partner/bf/gf being friends w men/women is a red flag" is something i truly cant believe exists in real life. like i want to believe it is a product of an online vacuum but also sadly i know its not but also. why tf is this kind of thinking on the rise. also stop saying red flag

[deesi-academia]

When you find a green flag but now you're the red flag with low self esteem 👍

[kuromi-hoemie]

there's this really funny thing cishet women used to do to me when i was a bi man where, upon learning I'm bi, suddenly pull out their phone to start looking up all their favorite men to see how i feel about them.

and like. I'm bi. i have all the choices in the world and there's all these beautiful queers with cool genders and ways of expressing themselves, and even some cishet ppl who are really just having fun with themselves - and you choose to show me the most boring chiselled men in suits??

by the time we hit somewhere from the 6th to 10th man feelings get HURT before I'm finally asked “well who do YOU think is cute!!?” and I blow their mind with my choices every time because i have good taste.

I'm sorry.. I don't know how to tell you you're picking from the bottom of the barrel here.. have you seen queer people?? the average woman??