#information bias
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Echo Chambers Unplugged: The Silent Segregation of Social Media
In the labyrinth of social media, platforms like Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and others have inadvertently become architects of division, crafting niches of uniformity in the vast expanse of the internet. These echo chambers, often invisible to their inhabitants, reverberate with the sound of agreement, leaving little room for the dissonance of dissent.
The Mechanics of Echo Chambers
The mechanics of these platforms are simple yet effective. Algorithms, designed to cater to our preferences, serve us a diet of content that mirrors our beliefs, creating a feedback loop that reinforces our worldview. This digital affirmation is comforting, yet it insulates us from the diverse opinions that are essential for a balanced perspective.
The Cost of Digital Conformity
The cost of this digital conformity is high. Those who dare to question or deviate from the group’s consensus find themselves at odds with the collective. In extreme cases, they are extricated, their voices silenced by the very tools that promise free speech and open dialogue. The result is a sanitized environment where challenging the status quo becomes a social faux pas.
YouTube’s Algorithmic Amplification
YouTube’s algorithmic amplification further entrenches viewers in their echo chambers. The platform’s recommendation system, while optimizing for engagement, inadvertently narrows our exposure to a homogenized view, creating visual echo chambers that rarely intersect with opposing narratives.
The Human Propensity for Comfort
It’s a human propensity to seek comfort in the familiar, to surround ourselves with echoes rather than challenges. Social media, with its array of tools, has made it easier than ever to curate our digital environment, to exclude the uncomfortable and unfamiliar. The result is a self-imposed isolation, a segregation of thought that goes unnoticed by many.
The Current State of Social Discourse
The current state of social discourse on these platforms is a reflection of our collective choices. We have built walls around our ideologies, often unconsciously, and in doing so, we have limited the potential for growth that comes from encountering differing viewpoints. The echo chambers we reside in are as much a product of human nature as they are of technological design.
#echo chambers#social media bubbles#reality check#critical thinking#diverse perspectives#open dialogue#information bias#echo system#thought diversity#social echo#communication barriers#quote#real life#societal reflection#tribalism
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Please, if you can, take a moment to read and share this because I feel like I'm screaming underwater.
NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) stigma is rampant right now, and seems to be getting progressively worse. Everyone is using it as a buzzword in the worst ways possible, spreading misinformation and hatred against a real disorder.
I could go on a long time about how this happened, why it's factually incorrect (and what the disorder actually IS), why it's harmful, and the changes I'd like to see. But to keep this concise, I'll simply link to a few posts under the cut for further reading.
The point of this post is a plea. Please help stop the spread of stigma. Even in mental health communities, even around others with personality disorders, in neurodivergent "safe" spaces, other communities I thought people would be supportive in (e.g. trans support groups, progressive spaces in general), it keeps coming up. So I'm willing to bet that a lot of people on this site need to see this.
Because it's so hard to exist in this world.
My disorder already makes me feel as if I'm worthless and unlovable, like there's something inherently wrong and damaged about me. And it's so much harder to fight that and heal when my daily life consists of:
Laughing and spending time with my friends, doing my utmost best to connect and stay present and focused on them, trying to let my guards down and be real and believe I'm lovable- when suddenly they throw out the word "narcissist" to describe horrible people or someone they hate, or the conversation turns to how evil "people with narcissistic personality disorder" are. (Seriously, you don't know which of your friends might have NPD and feels like shit when you say those things & now knows that you'd hate them if you knew.)
Trying to look up "mental health positivity for people with npd", "mental health positivity cluster bs", only to find a) none of that, and b) more of the same old vile shit that makes me feel terrible about myself.
Having a hard time (which is constant at this point) and trying to look up resources for myself, only to again, find the same stigma. And no resources.
Not having any clue how to help myself, because even the mental health field is spitting so much vitriol at people with DISORDERS (who they're supposed to be helping!) that there's no solid research or therapy programs for people like me.
Losing close friends when they find out, despite us having had a good relationship before, and them KNOWING me and knowing that I'm not like the trending image of pwNPD. Because now they only see me through the lens of stigma and misinformation.
Hearing the same stigma come up literally wherever I go. Clubs. Meetings. Any online space. At the bus stop. At the mall. At a restaurant. At work. Buzzword of the year that everyone loooves loudly throwing around with their friends or over the phone. Feels awesome for me, makes my day so much better/s
I could go on for a long time, but I'm scared no one will read/rb this if it gets too much longer.
So please. Stop using the word "narcissist" as a synonym for "abusive".
Stop bringing up people you hate who you believe to have NPD because of a stigmatizing article full of misinformation whenever someone with actual NPD opens their mouth. (Imagine if people did that with any other disorder! "Hey, I'm autistic." "Oh... my old roommate screamed at me whenever I made noise around him, and didn't understand my needs, which seems like sensory overload and difficulty with social cues. He was definitely autistic. But as long as you're self-aware and always restraining your innate desire to be an abusive asshole, you're okay I guess, maybe." ...See how offensive and ignorant that is?)
Stop preventing healthcare for people with a disorder just because it's trendy to use us as a scapegoat.
If you got this far, thank you for reading, and please share this if you can. Further reading is under the cut.
NPD Criteria, re-written by someone who actually has NPD
Stigma in the DSM
Common perception of the DSM criteria vs how someone may actually experience them (Keep in mind that this is the way I personally experience these symptoms, and that presentation can vary a lot between individuals)
"Idk, the stigma is right though, because I've known a lot of people with NPD who are jerks, so I'm going to continue to support the blockage of treatment for this condition."
(All of these were written by me, because I didn't want to link to other folks' posts without permission, but if you want to add your own links in reblogs or replies please feel free <3)
#actuallynpd#signal boost#actuallyautistic#mental health awareness#narcissistic personality disorder#people also need to realize that mental health professionals aren't immune from bias#(it really shouldn't come as a shock that the mental health field has a longstanding pattern of misunderstanding and mistreating ppl who ar#mentally ill or otherwise ND)#the first therapist i brought up NPD to like. literally pulled out the DSM bc she could barely remember the criteria. then said that there'#no way I have it because I have low self-esteem lmaoooooo#anyway throwback to being at work and chatting with a co-worker. and the conversation turning to mental health. and him saying that#he tries to stay informed and be aware and supportive of mental health conditions & that he doesn't want to be ignorant or spread harmful#misinformation. and then i mentioned that i do a lot of research into mental health stuff and i listed a bunch of things. which included#several personality disorders. one of which was NPD.#and after listening to my whole ass list he zeroed in on the NPD and immediately started talking about how narcissists are abusive and#he knew someone who had NPD and how the person who had it had an addiction and died from the addiction in a horrible way and he#was glad he did#fun times#or when i decided to be vulnerable and talk abt my self-criticism/self-hatred bc i knew my friends also struggled w that and i wanted to#support them by sharing my own coping methods. and they both(separately!) started picking and prodding at my npd through the lens of stigma#bc i'd recently opened up to them abt having it. they recognized self-hatred as a symptom and still jumped on me for it. despite me#trying to share hurt vulnerable parts of myself to help them and connect with them.#again..... fun times
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#Archive#Poll#Meatspace Interactions#it occurred to me to be curious how nonstandard my default silverware-configuration is#and then it occurred to me that this curiosity is possible to sate!#at least with the biased sample of my local tumblr-bubble#but even with that bias I still expect the information to be in fact pretty informative relative to my before-running-this-poll baseline!
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Reposting via a redditor; re:
Is there a sound argument for why people aren’t taking this seriously?
Why do they think that way? https://essaysyoudidntwanttoread.home.blog/2022/10/09/why-do-they-think-that/? 7 psychological defense mechanisms used to downplay covid https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1737582325779624059.html? How to hide a pandemic https://howtohideapandemic.substack.com/p/how-to-hide-a-pandemic Cognitive Dissonance & Ableism https://www.tiktok.com/@fka.monstersincooperated/video/7360285749574421802 Anti-social punishment https://www.tiktok.com/@creative.neurospice/video/7269910082769653038 NYT: Why People Fail to Notice Horrors Around Them (helplessness & habituation) https://archive.is/wVL85 [article about the ongoing right to avoid infection. ... how people just can't really face reality due to death anxiety] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/side-effects/202309/how-to-socialize-during-a-pandemic Increased risk-taking behavior during the COVID-19 pandemic: psychological underpinnings and implications https://www.scielo.br/j/rbp/a/TPpQKTwfqTH5Q8qKghRkWpf/?format=pdf&lang=en Cognitive Biases https://www.instagram.com/p/C8TdduJMtKH/ We’ve Hit Peak Denial. Here’s Why We Can’t Turn Away From Reality https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weve-hit-peak-denial-heres-why-we-cant-turn-away-from-reality/ Difficulties in Understanding Population Risk versus Individual Risk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2X_HRfJpio&list=LLkcwJR5kj80dAQNAT83d1NQ&t=2522s
See also:
Normalcy bias
Semmelweis reflex
Just-world fallacy
Survivorship bias
Compassion fatigue
Sunk cost fallacy
Learned helplessness
Informational social influence
Ableism
Nihilism
#covid#long covid#reading#reading list#info#cognitive dissonance#cognitive bias#psychology#logical fallacies#just world fallacy#informational social influence#sunk cost fallacy#ableism#learned helplessness#compassion fatigue#survivorship bias#semmelweis reflex#normalcy bias
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a lot of people act like sqq’s main character trait is obliviousness and i could not disagree more
#it kind of always implies that binghe is being obvious about his feelings and is not the king of mixed messages#shizun i’ll quote romantic poetry at you but while hunting you thru the streets so u can’t even think about it#shizun i was just remembering how you treated me well (chokes him out)#binghe: gives him his robe when he tears sqq’s clothes after threatening to use the blood mites to bite at his organs#i could keep going#when people in the jianghu start to theorize that there’s something romantic going on they’ve had FIVE YEARS of luo binghes bullshit#to start figuring out alternative explanations to explain what he’s got going on#sqq gets like a week before he runs into binghe again and gets nearly killed for LOOKING like sqq#do you see what i am putting down#can we just be honest about the situation being complicated and sqq having to make sense of a LOT of conflicting information#this isn’t even getting into how he feels genuinely threatened by lbh being sweet bc it was a precursor to bingge planning something awful#which we get literal proof of in the punishment protocol#sqq’s got the worst case of confirmation bias
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I'm really not a villain enjoyer. I love anti-heroes and anti-villains. But I can't see fictional evil separate from real evil. As in not that enjoying dark fiction means you condone it, but that all fiction holds up some kind of mirror to the world as it is. Killing innocent people doesn't make you an iconic lesbian girlboss it just makes you part of the mundane and stultifying black rot of the universe.
"But characters struggling with honour and goodness and the egoism of being good are so boring." Cool well some of us actually struggle with that stuff on the daily because being a good person is complicated and harder than being an edgelord.
Sure you can use fiction to explore the darkness of human nature and learn empathy, but the world doesn't actually suffer from a deficit of empathy for powerful and privileged people who do heinous stuff. You could literally kill a thousand babies in broad daylight and they'll find a way to blame your childhood trauma for it as long as you're white, cisgender, abled and attractive, and you'll be their poor little meow meow by the end of the week. Don't act like you're advocating for Quasimodo when you're just making Elon Musk hot, smart and gay.
#this is one of the reasons why#although i would kill antis in real life if i could#i also don't trust anyone who identifies as 'pro-ship'#it's just an excuse to shut down legitimate ethical questions and engaging in honest self-reflective media consumption and critique#art doesn't exist in a vacuum#it's a flat impossibility for it not to inform nor be informed by real world politics and attitudes#because that's what it means to be created by human hands#we can't even make machine learning thats not just human bias fed into an algorithm#if the way we interact with art truly didn't influence anything then there would be no value in it#just because antis have weaponized those points in the most bad faith ways possible#doesn't mean you can ignore them in good faith#anyway fandom stans villains because society loves to defend and protect abusers#it's not because you get the chance to be free and empathetic and indulge in your darkness and what not#it's just people's normal levels of attachment to shitty people with an added layer of justification for it#this blog is for boring do-gooder enjoyers only#lol#knee of huss#fandom wank#media critique#pop culture#fandom discourse
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A stray kids guide for beginners!
A hopefully helpful guide to anyone trying to get into stray kids!
NOTE: (if some info is inaccurate or has changed let me know!! If there’s an issue leave a comment and I’ll update!! This is just from research I have done)
Member # as of posting: 8 (group use to have 9 members when it first was created but due to personal reasons one member left leaving 8, the 9th member was Kim Woojin.)
Fandom name: STAY
group name: Stray Kids
Abbreviation: Skz
Group mottos: “Stray kids everywhere all around the world” & “you make stray kids stay”
Who’s Jyp?:
JYP entertainment is Stray kids record label / producer (like the company their group is represented by) (the guy himself is often made fun of by the members 💀 due to his rather unique takes on the choreography and vocals…)
When did stray kids form?
youtube
Debuted as a group of originally 9 on March 25th 2018. They formed in 2017 initially from a reality Tv show called JYP entertainment. In that show Felix and Lee know were originally eliminated from the group, Felix due to his Korean not being the best and Lee know because JYP labelled his raps weak so to speak. However after their initial elimination they worked hard and enhanced their skills leading to them later in redemption episode they were eventually brought back into the group.
Members:
Felix (Felix Yongbok Lee): known to be the sunshine with deep voice, 24 yrs old, 1/2 Australians in the group, crys on stage a lot, birthday is September 15th, sub rapper & dancer.
Bang chan (eng name: Chris): leader, single father of 7/j (his “kids” are his group members it’s a fandom joke), 26 yrs old, oldest, 2/2 Australian in the group, Known to be very kind hearted+protective of stay, very strong work ethic, birthday is October 3rd, like the groups leader + producer.
Seungmin (Kim Seung-min, English name is Sky):
Dubbed the “Puppy” of the group, our favourite comedian, 24 yrs old, ceo of roasting his members, pretty chill, Birthday is September 22nd, main vocalist.
Hyunjin (Hwang Hyunjin, eng name is Sam): the artist of the group, ceo of side eyes, sassy+drama queen (we love), age 24, Birthday is March 20th, Lead dancer & visual.
Lee Know (Lee Min-ho, English name is Rhino): cat dad, almost like the mother of the group/j, can be quiet + struggle to express emotions, doesn’t like conflict, age 25, birthday is October 25th, main dancer.
Han (Han Ji-sung, English name is Peter): constantly munching /j, very playful+charismatic, age 24, birthday is on September 14th, main vocalist & lead rapper.
I.N (Yang Jeong-in, English name is Bob): youngest of the group, sweet but can switch up so fast, age 23, birthday is on February 8th, vocalist & maknae.
Changbin (Seo Chang-bin, English name is Lewis): Is so sensitive bc he’s just so hungry/ref, tries to act cute and makes very horrible jokes+puns sometimes (we still love him tho), Age 25, Birthday is on August 11th, Main rapper.
Official accounts (admin posting doesn’t use tiktok so I’ll only be sharing the socials I know of)! //
Stray kids official accounts on insta:
@realstraykids
@straykids_official_jp
Felix’s Insta: @yong.lixx
Lee know’s Insta: @t.leeknowsaurus
Han’s insta: @_doolsetnet
Seungmin’s insta: @miniverse.___
I.N’s Insta: @i.2.n.8
Hyunjin’s insta: @hynjinnnn
Bang chan’s insta: @gnabnahc
Changbin’s insta: @jutwae
Mascots: stray kids have these mascots for each member called “Skzoos”! Every member has one!
youtube
- Bang Chan is Wolf Chan
- Lee know is Leebit
- Changbin is dwaekki
- Hyunjin is jiniret
- Han is Han Quokka
- Felix is Bbokari
- Seungmin is puppyM
- I.N is Foxl.Ny.
Where to watch their live streams:
Often in more recent times you can catch them live on the stray kids Official YouTube, their personal Instagram accounts, and sometimes on platforms like TikTok ?¿? (Don’t use tiktok so unsure abt last one)
There isn’t really a set streaming schedule!
* They also are regularly active on the platform “Bubble” !! (This is a subscription based platform! If anyone wants more info on such just say!)
Where do people often watch their content outside idol stuff:
Often times you’ll see compilations of the skz members interacting with each other most of the clips are from their series on YouTube called “Stray Kids Code”! It is free to watch and has an English sub.
You can also look up various stray kid interviews by just typing “stray kids interview” into YouTube!
youtube
Where can you get Photo cards? (More reliably)
- Amazon (generally sold in packs)
- Etsy (can purchase individual or packs)
- Albums (normally they come with a few)
(Other merch can also be found on these platforms some official and some not!)
If your also looking for official merch and your uncertain of various sellers online than you can also get it directly off the JYPshop website ! (if it’s a popular item like a skzoo plush it’ll sell out super fast! As of time of posting there’s quite a few items sold out on there)
Note: if you’re looking for super cheap unofficial photocards I highly recommend the user JustBTSArt on Etsy! (Not sponsored just someone who’s bought a lot from them!)
Wanting to get into their music? Here’s some of their most popular songs that could be a good gateway into more of their music!
- Chk Chk Boom
- JJAM
- I Like it
- LALALALA
- MANIAC
- MOUNTAINS
- Gods Menu
- S-Class
- Case 143
- Charmer
- Thunderous
- Red Lights
- ETC.
Where to listen?
Stray kids music is on pretty much every streaming platform,YouTube, Apple Music, Spotify, etc.
Who is 3Racha?
Like stray kids in house producing team! Made up of Bang Chan, Changbin, and Han. They make some of their own music and also compose a lot of the music for stray kids.
That’s all for now <3! Hoped this helped!! If you have any comments, questions, concerns, feel free to leave a comment or dm !!
#stray kids#kpop#kpop guide#skz#skz fandom#skzoo#bang chan#lee felix#changbin#i.n#lee know#hyunjin#han jisung#seungmin#for baby stays#kpop bias#kpop bias group#ult group#jyp#jyp artists#jyp entertainment#fandom#information#rant post#Spotify#intro post#introduction#infodump#infodumping
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#gravity falls#poll#ford pines#he was chubby in the book of bill don't come at me#all we know from the cartoon and comics is that he's wide#BUT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION#send me your chunky fords#it's for research#what bias are you talking about there's no bias
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If I were a philosopher, I would write thought experiments where people go to the store to purchase milk but are forced to contend with incredibly confusing and annoying signage
#shitpost#a bias to interpret ambiguous information in a threat related manner#quotes of 2013#time in which this one is appropriate is just about right
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Traumerei: *displays deep loyalty to, respect for and trust in Zahard nearly every instance of his page-time, with whom he spent centuries and potential millenia travelling as comrades to the point that post-climb Gustang notes how unusual it is to no longer be around each other 24/7, is noted to be closer to post-climb Zahard than anyone else and refuses to let himself be interrogated about it, voluntarily choses to take on Zahard's proposal of going against Gustang's family and confides in him about his nightmares, makes clear that Zahard's opinion on issues > everyone else's, supporter of Zahard's military operations by supplying Lo Po Bia forces in both past and present to the point that branch leaders complain about being thrown in the meatgrinder in place of Zahard's own forces (which isn't even mentioning the potential human but definitely humanoid experimentation in the basement, thought up together with Zahard and potentially killing his first ever girlfriend partly based on Zahard's opinion and bc she was snooping into the experimentation)*
#Tower of God#Lo Po Bia Traumerei#Zahard#anyway Traumerei is Zahard's biggest defender in canon so far#and it makes me crazy how people keep straight up choosing not to read when it comes to anything related to Zahard#and subsituting it with their unsubstantiated headcanons at best and reversal of available canon information at worst#Edited this post to make it less centered on complaining about fandom#And to abuse my newfound passion for shitty meme edits :D
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shortest bias version ever aka consider it a wip:
he does not have romantic feelings to anyone before we interact but:
Topaz is a person he likes, be it to play tricks on her or because she is, in fact, kind which he will criticize
Ratio is his comfort person which means that he does foolishly care for what the man thinks about him but firmly believes it's dislike. Still, Ratio would be someone he has a certain amount of trust to, enough to let him into his home
he is thankful to Jade, but he doesn't trust her, yet he is easily manipulated by her regardless
he is cautious of Sparkle and wouldn't trust her as far as she could throw him, which is not very far
He considers the Trailblazer as trustworthy and sees the worth in trying to maintain a connection, especially since powers are vying for their favour.
given his ultimately bad reputation he does not think any Stoneheart likes him
he is pretty certain Sunday doesn't have the best feelings toward him but he is too jaded to really hold what the man had done to him against him - he has been played to orchestrate the exact outcome after all.
he does NOT trust himself and he will consider any other Aventurine with utmost scrutiny
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things the US needs to address:
the collective psychosis that leads people to make posts like these
#in case it's unclear what i mean:#1.) blaming gen z men or any of the listed grifters is useless idpol#2.) half of your country did not 'vote against [your] collective best interests' lmao#if you truly believe that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the position your country occupies in the global economy#and the benefits conferred onto its citizens for supporting the imperial world order#3.) i feel like OP kept this point purposefully vague (ofc social media has on effect on the common good. what effect specifically?)#but i'll still respond by saying#social media has helped immensely in exposing how often traditional news outlets lie retract revise and outright fabricate information#the more aligned with bourgeois interests they are the worse it is#the past year of western media's reporting on the genocide in palestine has done nothing if not highlight the incongruence#between what people see n share on the ground and what narratives corporate interests deem fit to disseminate through traditional channels#the importance of following independent (which does not equal 'unbiased') journalists has never been greater#4.) 'lazy minds and lack of empathy' empathy is not some bulwark against fascism. it can actually serve to further it quite easily#idk what OP is trying to get at here. lazy point = lazy response#5.) i can't say anything here that isn't summed up better by that tweet that's like#'american *sees something american happening americanly in america*: what are we a bunch of ASIANS?!?!???'#cause there's just nooo way politicians and public figures in the US could spew reactionary nonsense and get a huge following#unless the evil russians had a hand in it#cause it's not like the US is racism central or anything#come on now#(for those unaware i'm citing this tweet bc orientalism of this kind has historically been directed at russians/slavs in addition to#people from MENA and asian countries broadly)#6.) see point number 3 above; trying to police AI is a fruitless endeavor; people need media literacy in order to#understand the interests of the parties involved in the coverage of any event and better discern the truth about what's happening;#identifying the bias inherent to any news channel and then examining how that bias impacts its reporting does far more to help dispel#misinformation than just labeling anything you don't like or you think influences people the 'wrong' way as misinformation#anyway i'm done. clown.#sansgwilie
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I am sure, at some point, while on the internet, we have all seen some guy trying to make idiotic claims about Christianity or about religion in general. And often, I am sure, we are filled with annoyance, or roll our eyes, or perhaps even filled with anger. But how often do we pray for these people? I think I should start doing that.
👍 good reminder
#usually i only get annoyed if its clearly someone's bias informing their views#with people like that girl in the tiktok i just reblogged thats clearly an education issue
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Survey Announcement!
Translation:
"Hello, my name is Moth. I am a college student studying research. For my class, I picked information access for the d/Deaf community. Below this video is a link to my survey. If you could complete my survey, I'd be happy. Thank you."
Specifically, I'm interested in accessibility of American news organizations. For more information and to take the survey, please follow the link below. I would appreciate the help so much!
If you have any questions, please reach out to me!
This survey will close April 9th, 2023.
#deaf#deaf and hoh#asl#american sign language#deaf community#deaf culture#information accessibility#journalism and mass communication#media bias#journalism
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consider: Fingon gets catapulted into the future (specifically mid-Third Age Rivendell) from just after the Dagor Aglareb. So he's fresh off the victory—maybe it’s just after beating back baby Glaurung and this is dragon-magic at work—and he wakes up in a future in which everyone is dead, Morgoth's gone at the cost of all of Beleriand, there were two more kinslayings, the Oath is still unfulfilled and all the sons of F��anor are dead which means Maedhros is in the Everlasting Darkness where Fingon can't reach him,
and he has no idea how to prevent any of this because there's maybe three people left who remember the Dagor Aglareb and one of them is Fingon
#it's not the worst possible future (because morgoth is gone) but that's basically the only upside fingon can see#he finds the little memorial elrond made for maglor and maedhros in a quiet corner of rivendell and that's how he finds out they're dead#elrond is away right now he's in gondor or something so fingon is finding these things out on his own#fingon checking the library: surely someone survived! maybe celebrimbor? or little finduilas?#he's very relieved to learn that idril lived to sail west. significantly less relieved to learn about his nephew who doesn't exist yet#(because basically all the information about maeglin was written by gondolindrim after the fall of gondolin so there's some bias there)#actually given when the dagor aglareb is relative to gondolin fingon's going 'oh is THAT why turgon's been ignoring us?'#because turgon only founded the city like ten years before the dagor aglareb starts
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