#in terms of basic canon continuity

[kagoutiss]

*complaining for no reason again because i am bored* i need more ppl to know that these. are all the same person these are literally canonically all the exact same individual person im begging u

literally almost all the ganondorfs are the exact same individual and almost all the ganons are the exact same individual, almost all the ganondorfs & ganons are the same exact person just in different forms and circumstances. except for FSA and maybe whatever the fuck is going on with TotK ganondorf but i still think it’s weird that he still has golden eyes & rounded ears when even the gerudo in TotK’s ancient past dont, but anyway ashfjsbfjsn

[thearomanticcactus]

Mad again from thinking about the blatant abuse erasure in MHA

[lord-squiggletits]

On the MegOP fandom trend of saying "Optimus should apologize to Megatron"

(Speaking specifically for IDW1, though it applies to a lot of MegOP especially ones that do continuity soup with heavy reference to IDW1)

I was talking to a friend in DMs and they mentioned a common headcanon/fanfic trope that I also concurred with, and both of us said it's something that bothers us: a common take in the MegOP fandom goes basically along the lines of "If Optimus had just apologized to Megatron, the war would've ended" (or other variants including "if he'd tried harder to understand Megatron/work in collaboration with him").

And firstly, this is incorrect for a number of reasons:

There were attempts at peace negotiations during the war, but they fell through. So Optimus WAS trying to work with Megatron to the point of participating in formal diplomatic meetings.

Optimus tried multiple times on page to convince Megatron to just stop fighting and work with him for peace (Autocracy, Chaos Theory) that Megatron rejected. Given that these on-page examples take place at the start of the war and at the end of the war respectively, it makes sense that Optimus asking Megatron for collaboration is something he was trying/willing to do the entire time. So again, Optimus was always willing AND ATTEMPTING to work with Megatron and find a joint solution

Even before the war when Optimus was still Orion, he was very explicitly inspired by Megatron's writing and names Megatron as one of the people who "opened his eyes" to the wrongs of Cybertronian society. So how is it that people claim "the war went on for too long because Optimus never tried to understand Megatron" when OP literally named Megatron as one of his biggest idols, thus implying that OP does understand Megatron's ideals

But the primary purpose of this post wasn't to defend Optimus, actually. Even though I personally think Optimus did plenty (dare I say, everything) to try to end the war, there are some who may still think otherwise, so instead of arguing about whether Optimus did "enough", or who should apologize to whom, or who "deserves the blame" for starting/continuing the war, I'd actually rather talk about this:

No matter who is most "to blame" for the war, it's my firm belief that neither Megatron nor Optimus would even expect/demand the other to apologize to them at all.

On Megatron's side, he would never seek to judge Optimus negatively for the decisions to the point of saying "you wronged me, apologize." Whether it's evil Megatron who doesn't care about atrocities and revels in an opportunity to expose Optimus as a hypocrite, or post-war/Autobot Megatron who knows that his own evil actions are irredeemable, the idea of Megatron judging Optimus and demanding an apology for the war specifically strikes me as out-of-character. Why would Megatron demand or even want an apology from Optimus when Megatron knows fully well that he has his own sins to bear, he prolonged the war for his own selfish/material gain, and that he is responsible for an untold amount of suffering? Demanding an apology would imply that Megatron sees himself as the wronged party and Optimus as the wrongdoer, but by the end of the war, Megatron is too aware of his own part in the war to ever demand such a thing of Optimus. Even if he DID think that Optimus was "equally to blame" for the war (which he doesn't/wouldn't, btw), Megatron's own feelings of guilt would prevent him from trying to seek the petty satisfaction of the moral high ground or making Optimus beg for his forgiveness.

Additionally, Megatron knows Optimus very well as a person: he knows that the position of leadership is full of "loneliness [and] agonizing self-doubt" for Optimus (Chaos Theory) and that "when Optimus hurts others, he hurts himself" (MTMTE). Another reason that Megatron wouldn't demand nor want an apology from Optimus is because Megatron knows Optimus so well that he already knows that being a war leader fills Optimus with immense guilt and suffering. Given that Megatron knows about Optimus' self-doubt and guilt, why would he even need an apology when he already knows how much Optimus regrets the war and desperately wishes/wished for it to end?

Then, as established in the previous paragraphs, Optimus is too full of guilt for his part in the war (both before it started and in being unable to stop it sooner) to demand an apology from Megatron. Again, demanding an apology would put Optimus in an implied position of moral superiority and/or victimhood, but Optimus doesn't see himself as morally superior or as a victim (or rather, he sees himself as being responsible for these bad things happening and internalizes this as a duty to do better/fix wrongdoings). In other words, Megatron and Optimus both share this view of themselves and each other: Their hands are so dirty, and they both feel such guilt over this, and they know each other well enough to know that the other feels this way as well. Because both of them feel blame for the war and are acutely aware of their own flaws/part in suffering, both of them feel far too responsible for the war happening for them to ever blame their archnemesis for "not trying harder" or "being responsible for the war."

Hell, if you even look at the socio-political climate of Cybertron before the war started, neither Megatron nor Optimus were the ones who put this conflict into motion. The corrupt legacy of the Primes, Functionism, class issues-- all of these things existed before Megatron and Optimus did. Even once they started doing things like writing about social issues (M) or fighting against the Senate (OP), both of them were "underlings" in sense that they weren't leaders:

Megatron's writings may have inspired the Decepticon movement, but that movement existed as an independent entity with its own leaders and speakers long before Megatron became the "official" ruler of the Decepticons. He wasn't even the leader of the 'Cons until he took control of the gladiator arena and the nonviolent sections of the Decepticons were (presumably) subsumed into the underground, exploitative battle culture that Megatron created.

Optimus-as-Orion was a police officer to start, but even once he started going against the Senate, he mainly worked in collaboration with others like Senator Shockwave and Zeta (later Zeta Prime), who he either saw as his idols or who were literally superior to him in rank due to government/military structures.

So with this in mind, even from a social level, while Megatron and Optimus may have been "catalysts" of a sort that caused the war to escalate to an outright planetary/galactic level, the scenario is too complex to solely lay the blame for the war at either of their feet. I'm not confident in saying that Megatron/Optimus would explicitly think of this when talking to each other, but what I'm trying to say is that M/OP were just catalysts in a long chain of brewing tension that exploded into a war. Even if one could claim that one of them "started" or "escalated" the war, the social issues that caused the war and the positions of power that allowed them to become leaders in the first place were falling into place before either of them actually BECAME leaders.

In other words, this shared fate of being the final reaction that exploded a societal conflict into outright war... Megatron and Optimus both have that in common. And because of this, I really don't think either of them would even think to ask the other to apologize because they're both in such similar positions, with such similar feelings of guilt and responsibility, that they understand each other's feelings without words. To demand an apology would be akin to taking that shared vulnerability/guilt and stepping on it, attempting to claim that one is right/superior and the other is wrong/inferior, and that the inferior one needs to grovel and take responsibility for the bad things that happened.

[veilkeeper]

thoughts on the astarion-halsin polymance

i know some people dont like the halsin polymance specifically if the PC's other partner is astarion but. i want to talk about it. because i think maybe a lot of people have come to conclusions without seeing the scenes in question for themselves. so let me give a different perspective.

disclaimers: *i know a lot of people ship/hc this polymance as a triad, but for the purposes of this post i'm talking specifically about the "hinge" dynamic we see in-game thx. **also i got the halsin romance trigger before completing astarion's personal quest, so this post is talking about that perspective, and all quotes are from those conversations. ***i respect people who dont play this route. you're allowed to play this game however you want. the purpose of this post is to discuss the canon, in-game text and how it supports the astarion-halsin polymance as a viable and healthy path for these relationships, with nuance and respect to astarion's personal issues. this is not meant to convert anyone, but it is meant to clarify and provide additional context that i feel is largely missing from a lot of discussions about how the polymance is "bad", unilaterally.

let's start with halsin, because i think he's the easier perspective to tease out here, given that he really leaves nothing to the imagination. he's incredibly earnest and open, and will happily describe his perspective on non-monogamy right out the gate. as he says...

The wolf mates for life, but the bear roams free and partners as its instinct dictates. I need to stay true to my nature, and you to yours.

now, to get ahead of potential backlash here... if you haven't spent a lot of time with halsin, particularly if you've never flirted with him, that line may imply that he's a "player". he is not. given the context of the PCs interactions with him up to this point (and how he treats the relationship after, if you confirm the romance), halsin is deeply devoted, and has really strong feelings for the PC. it's really sweet, i highly recommend romancing him, either as a polymance or solo.

what he's describing here is a perspective of cultural non-monogamy. that he believes his feelings are not diminished by having multiple relationships at the same time, and he expects that if the PC agrees to a relationship with him that they will respect his freedom to pursue others when/if such feelings arise, just as he will respect the PC's freedom to continue and/or pursue other relationships as well. it's a really succinct and frankly unexpectedly respectful negotiation of the terms of a polyam relationship.

and that respect is evident from the get go. if you've never seen this conversation, it basically opens with him saying "hey, i have these feelings about you, i was wondering if you maybe felt the same," and if the PC says that they do, he immediately acknowledges the existing relationship and tells the PC that they can't move forward without consent. and you cant; speaking to halsin again just has him ask the PC if they've spoken to their other partner yet. at every turn, halsin is incredibly respectful of the PCs other partner, he never diminishes that relationship, nor does he expect the PC to ever place him above that relationship. he even says:

Indeed, I am but one of your lovers. You and I should seek happiness, wherever it lies. You are all I want, but I will not hoard you to myself.

he makes it very clear from the get-go that he has no designs on the PC's other relationship and that he is more than happy to take whatever they want to give him.

which leads me to my overarching point: astarion is consenting to this dynamic specifically because the other person in question is halsin.

and we know this for a few reasons. first, because.... mechanically in game, he's the only person you can romance at the same time as astarion. while astarion mentions at various points that he is fine with "arrangements", generally speaking, every other potential romance partner results in a "you have to choose one of us" conversation. the reason astarion gives for why the PC has to choose varies, i believe, but since i don't have the dialogue on hand (i have been faithful as hell in my playthrough) i won't speculate about those conversations.

however, we also know that astarion is consenting to an arrangement with halsin specifically because of this line:

The druid is unique. He has a lot of experience with this type of arrangement. Thus, I'm sure it would be quite a harmless affair.

which is interesting, isn't it? hold onto this one, we'll circle back to it later. and then of course, the other line we need to discuss from astarion here is the famously controversial...

It's not because… you know… we haven't… in a while?

so this is where i get into the potentially controversial take that i have, because it's more nuanced than arguments i've seen on either side of the pro-/anti- polymance debate. but basically i think that astarion is... insecure. shocker, i know. but unlike some takes i've seen, i dont think this means he can't consent to a polyam relationship, i think it means that he has certain Conditions related to it, that he has decided have been met. and i think those conditions are as follows:

the PC's interest in halsin is not borne out of any deficiency of astarion's.

this is why he asks the famous question. he's insecure, and making sure that the PC's interest in halsin is not because astarion is failing to "satisfy" them, that it's not because he isn't enough. astarion has a lot of self-worth issues that he tries really hard to hide, and i think it would be easy for him to think that the PC starting another relationship could be a result of him being... insufficient.

for people who have never been in a polyam relationship, this is a thing. this is an important thing, and making sure all of your partners feel that they're valued and "enough" is an important part of navigating these relationships. astarion does the right thing here, by expressing his insecurity and asking for reassurance. and when the PC gives it to him, the relief is evident and he gives consent to the dynamic immediately. not because he's been coerced, but because he's been reassured.

PC: Gods, I don't want you to think that for a moment. Astarion: I know I was being foolish. But thank you for saying it.

the second condition is:

that he is still a priority

this is pretty self explanatory but since it's sort of the clincher for my whole argument here, i do have to say the quiet part out loud. i dont think what astarion wants or needs is to be the PC's only partner. he talks about "arrangements" on multiple occasions, i dont think he has a problem with sharing. what i do think he wants is to be the PC's primary partner. what he's consenting to, in my view, is hierarchical polyamory, to use the proper term. as in, the PC can fool around with whoever they want, even have feelings for other people, so long as they always come back to astarion. he needs to feel like he is secure and valued above others as he values them above others. he needs to feel like the PC isn't going anywhere.

and that's why he consents to an arrangement with halsin, but no one else. because all of the other romance options, the origin companions, would want to be equal with astarion, they would want non-hierarchical polyamory. halsin, on the other hand, is all about taking what can be given and having a more fluid understanding of relationships. he doesn't care if he's #1, he cares that the PC cares about him, right now. no formal definitions or obligations required.

that's what astarion means when he says "the druid is unique." that's what he means when he says "he has a lot of experience with this type of arrangement." that's what he means when he says it will be a "harmless affair." because he knows halsin is never going to try to take the PC away from him. he knows halsin isn't going to be a threat to him and his status with his partner. and that's why he's comfortable saying yes, even though he says no to every other possible arrangement.

it's not because he was coerced. it's not because he doesn't know how to say no. it's because he feels safe. and that's what we want.

some additional notes while i'm here...

on jealousy: a lot of people hc astarion as the jealous type, as perhaps a little possessive, and i am also one of those people. it makes sense; he's a guy who hasn't had anything in 200 years, and the PC is the first person he's cared about like this. i can definitely see him being a little possessive and prone to jealousy. but stepping outside of the realm of fiction, jealous/possessive feelings are often the result of insecurity and in real relationships should absolutely not be used as a tool to control the behaviour of another partner. and, crucially, jealous/possessive feelings are a thing to be talked about and worked through, not tip-toed around. the presence of those feelings does not automatically mean that a polyamorous relationship is impossible, it just means there's another thing to talk about, and by astarion consenting to the PC having another relationship, he's pretty clearly saying he's willing to talk through those feelings and work on them.

on the ability to consent: i know that astarion doesn't talk about his feelings enough. but i truly dont think that this is a case of astarion saying yes when he means no. astarion can say no, even in high pressure situations he wasn't expecting. he says no to the astral-touched tadpole (rather firmly, i might add), he says no to sleeping with the drow twins, etc. the scene that most people use as proof that astarion cannot consent happens in a much different emotional context, with a lot of direct coercion, and is followed by astarion taking back personal control and dumping the PC. that is not what happens in this scene, when astarion is consenting to a polyamorous relationship. there is no coercion (in fact the PC can explicitly say "i wouldn't even consider it if it bothered you", and astarion expected the conversation, so he would have been able to prepare his thoughts and feelings ahead of time. at no point does he say no or even imply he's not okay with an arrangement with halsin.

on timing: ive seen some people say that they would be more okay with the astarion-halsin polymance if all of this was not be happening right now. i agree with that. ideally, astarion would have more time to adjust to his relationship before it was opened up at all. but because this is a video game, everything is happening during the events of the game. and because this is a video game, the events of the game are high pressure and wild and everything is happening all at once. i don't blame people who elongate the timeline in fan content, or who turn down halsin because they think its "too soon." thats actually very explicitly something halsin says when he initially propositions the player - that he hopes it isn't "too soon." however, astarion still consents (see point above), and relationships barely ever have good timing. one could argue that even the solomance with astarion does not have good timing, when considering astarion's trauma and recovery. so. we make do. and i think it would be... a disservice? to what is (in my opinion) really good polyam writing to just say "actually it's all terrible and icky because there's a lot going on right now" and dismiss it out of hand.

.......................and i think that's everything. thank you for joining me on this very long (oops) deep dive into this. a double thank you for reading all the way through if you don't like the astarion-halsin polymance. i hope i gave you a different perspective, even if i didn't change your mind. love ya <3

[bluehoodedmousebane]

I did wind up playing with Elite body types. And a handful of skin. effects? Idk. I feel like most of these are canon compliant, but not to worry! I have completely insane thoughts and another drawing under the cut.

Thank god the people making wikis have moved off of fandom. Halopedia’s is so much better so far.

Basically Sangheili are omnivorous, social, and have two sexes with a tiny amount of dimorphism. Sanghelios is said to be higher gravity than earth, but with both the size of the planet and the not-great body plan of the elites the difference would be minimal. You can assume from their pupils that they were most likely crepuscular ambush predators. They historically used their mouths to grapple prey, but do not use them to actually eat the food. Instead they use their hands to break down their food, and swallow the manageable pieces whole. They also lay eggs rather than give live birth, and their young must be incubated even after hatching.

The randomized reptile traits are really funny to me, and I want to take it very slightly further.

I can’t find any information on clutch sizes, but I’d like to change the sexual dimorphism to have females be slightly bigger than males. No real reason, especially without fecundity info, but the women rant is not one I’ll be posting.

I also want Sangheili to continue growing throughout their life, with diminishing returns. Like. A guy who’s fifty and 7’ 9” might end up being 8’ 1” when he’s 70.

Now for the completely unfounded shit.

I also cannot find a firm answer on whether they’re warm or cold blooded. Both of them would be fun to play with, and both would be fairly realistic for their size and environment. I think making them mesotherms would be a funny middle ground, and the body temps rising with size could be. Vaguely? Useful for larger females incubating?

I’m thinking the thought of internal dominance presentations for both of the sexes. Kind of. Not in any way that really matters modern day. Basically long term stress-> long term stress hormones-> hormones activate other hormones-> slight body changes for the individual. Dominant males and females can grow bigger and act more volatile. Socially they do often try and lead the people around them, enforce some control, but they aren’t actually seen any different. They’re just like. Adults going through second puberty. So I guess it’s not exactly a dominance thing. This is me bullshitting an explanation for why Thel seems so much bigger in 5 than he does in 2 and 3.

also uhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Rtas.

sorry?

[ckret2]

mabill au = perfection! i really like the gender stuff you do with bill, is there anything similar going on here? i would like to imagine that being mabel is just adding another ingredient to the gender soup. yum.

Quick note, fandom's already using the term "mabill"—about 2/3 of the time it means shipping Mabel/Bill and 1/3 it means Bill-possessing-Mabel a la Bipper—so please don't call this "mabill au." That'd make some people refuse to read it because they misunderstand what it's about, while other people excitedly read it and then get disappointed by the truth. (It WOULD be a perfect name, but I'm not gonna muddle a fandom term that's already been taken.) We're sticking with Sparkly Coin AU.

I run with the "Bill's gender is triangle (it's actually pyramid but he still says triangle because that's easier for people to understand)" headcanon in basically any continuity I imagine up. In this AU, Mabel fully identifies as a girl; but as some of her premortem memories start resurfacing, she starts identifying as a girl and a triangle/pyramid, but being a triangle is secondary to being a girl.

At that point she'd be willing to take either she/her or he/him pronouns... but she'd be extremely leery of WHY you want to he/him her. If Kryptos he/hims Mabel, that's fine, they've known each other like a trillion years and what are human pronouns worth to Kryptos anyway. If *Ford* he/hims Mabel, that's a red flag—"has he stopped seeing me as his great niece and started seeing me as an evil triangular imposter wearing his niece's skin?"—and it would put her on edge.

(For my own part, I'm sticking to calling her she/her postmortem to emphasize the fact that the situation isn't "Bill has amnesia; Mabel's a facade that will fall off when his memories return and he becomes Bill again" but rather "Bill has changed and grown since he became Mabel; when she remembers her past she's still Mabel." Bill-Mabel aren't two different people who share a soul, but one single person who got a really weird fresh start thirteen years ago. When Mabel & Bill interact in canon, Mabel's talking to her younger self, but neither of them know it yet.)

[sunderwight]

crack scum villain theory: there is no "original" Shang Qinghua

how this works is, neither the world of SV nor the world of PIDW actually existed in any tangible sense before Airplane died. Airplane dying was actually the catalyst for the system, and whatever unfathomable cosmic entities are behind it, to recreate the world from the novel. that's why Airplane transmigrates into an infant, and also why the world mostly follows canon up until Airplane interacts too much with actual plot-relevant characters, and accidentally butterfly effects Shen Jiu into a fatal qi deviation. At which point the system determines that a dead Shen Qingqiu makes fulfilling the basic story requirements impossible or at least dangerously low in terms of odds, and brings in the second play (User 002, Shen Yuan).

SY is able to earn more points from the system than Airplane, but that's mostly thanks to his proximity to the protagonist not actual preferential treatment, and he seems to have more concrete restrictions on his behavior and limits on his mobility (OOC lock, entering into an already-established character, and of course being forced to ensure that Luo Binghe goes into the Endless Abyss) (this does make it ironic that he ultimately changes the most things). whereas Airplane seems to have more freedom to do as he pleases. the system doesn't even seem to dock him points for accidentally contributing to the death of a vitally plot-relevant character.

so the SV world was originally supposed to more or less just be the same as the PIDW world. it didn't change to any significant degree until Shen Jiu died.

I suspect, then, that the PIDW world which followed canon didn't exist as any kind of separate reality until Shen Jiu died of a fatal qi deviation and had to be replaced. at which point the system -- perhaps hedging its bets -- created two splintered timelines. one being the original sandbox for Airplane to play in and continue to alter, the other being a manufactured reflection of the story's original outcome, possibly to serve as some kind of emergency back-up character bank or reference outline.

which means that the PIDW version of this reality isn't a full and cohesive world. though of course the people there don't know that. it's mostly just a tool for the system, which is why we first encounter Bingge being utilized as an enforcer. Bingge and everyone else who exists in the PIDW reality, they all remember their past as the story and are at the end point of what Airplane had written, but none of it actually happened. they instead sprang into existence at their narrative end point.

since the Shang Qinghua of Airplane's novel died well before the end of the story, characters in the PIDW have various recollections of a "Shang Qinghua" and his death, but they are vague and ultimately do not reflect the tangible events of a world the way that the SV timeline does. they are artificial memories based on a story. PIDW Shen Jiu likewise never really existed, although SV Shen Jiu did. similarly, all the history of the SV world that supposedly happened before Shang Qinghua was born never actually happened either. that's all constructed as well, which means that in a weird kind of a way, no one in the world can actually be older than Shang Qinghua either. they can only have manufactured memories that give them that impression. which means Airplane is the oldest being in that entire universe. he'd even be older than his own parents, because they were created to be his parents the moment he was born.

so there's no other Shang Qinghua. everything prior to Airplane's transmigration in the SV world and prior to the last PIDW chapter in the PIDW world is like when a video game designer seeds a dungeon with a skeleton and a bunch of notes about how some lone adventurer got lost and died there. at no point in the game was there ever actually a live adventurer in place of that skeleton.

that's "original" Shang Qinghua. he doesn't exist, because in one reality he's only ever been a version of Airplane, and in another he's a skeleton in a video game dungeon.

[shikai-the-storyteller]

Who is Vegetta?

Had to wait until my hands stopped shaking for this one, I love Vegetta so much. He was recently — miraculously — announced for the QSMP, so here's a rundown for English fans of both who he is and his lore. 

Vegetta777 is a Spanish Youtuber who is one of, if not THE biggest pillar of the Spanish community. He's been doing content for over 15 years now.

He's the creator of the Karmaland series, which he started when he was around Quackity's age.

I cannot emphasize enough: Vegetta doesn't do series or events or tournaments EVER, so him accepting the invitation is a huge deal. This was his exact commentary on it:

Vegetta: Quackity me invitó hace tiempo y le dije que no suelo entrar a series que yo puedo controlar, pero le he dado ese voto de confianza, además le pregunté como sería la serie porque no quería nada competitivo y quackity me dijo que no me preocupara por nada. [...] Si yo confíe en quackity y él confío en mi para Karmaland pues yo le doy ese voto de confianza para esta serie que está haciendo y además se le veía emocionado al chaval, si te soy sincero, Quackity el hijo de Rubius de cierto modo Translation: Quackity invited me a while ago and I told him that I don't usually enter series that I can't control, but I have given him that vote of confidence, I also asked him how the series would be because I didn't want anything competitive, and Quackity told me not to worry about anything (does this confirm QSMP is an RP server? 🤔) [...] If I trust Quackity and he trusts me for Karmaland, well, I give him that vote of confidence for this series he's doing. And also the boy looked excited, if I'm honest, Quackity's the son of Rubius in a certain way. (🥺💕)

Vegetta is very fond of Quackity after interacting with him in Karmaland 5, and he's spoken multiple times about how much Quackity's impressed him. He also said Quackity will be bigger than him someday :') He's very supportive of the new generation, and he spoke highly of Spreen today too.

Vegetta is one of the most talented Minecraft builders out there, and he's fast

While most of the other Karmaland boys were still living in basic houses, Vegetta built a CASTLE within a super short time

Vegetta loves cats. In Karmaland he had an entire cat rescue with 50+ cats (and yes, he’s named every single one of them). IRL, he shares lots of adorable cat photos and videos. 

His skin, like his name, is based on the Dragon Ball character Vegeta. Vegetta777 is basically the yassified version of Vegeta (just like Phil is the yassified version of Uruhara).

In Karmaland 5, Vegetta was a bit of a wizard, and he had a flock of crows / ravens (remind you of anyone?) 

Vegetta is sometimes called "the father of Minecraft", so many people (myself included) are ESPECIALLY excited to see him and Phil interact because they have a lot of similarities.

Vegetta is one of the heroes of Karmaland and the unofficial leader of their group. In terms of lore, he's essentially a demigod / minor god, though it's not as direct as Sapo  Peta's contact with them.

Vegetta is typically a staunch rule-follower, however, since he's not in control of the series, he said: "I feel like Rubius: 'Let's see what I can do to destroy everything, let's look for all the legal loopholes,' get ready Quackity, I'm the new Rubius!" (LMAO)

Vegetta’s the king of “stay in your own lane” he never gets into drama or gets involved in controversies, he just watches the dumpster fires from the sidelines like the rest of us

He almost never wears a shirt in the series (and honestly? Good for him)

His character is also, canonically, absolutely shredded

It's impossible to talk about Vegetta's lore without also talking about Rubius, so buckle in because this one's a doozy. I can't cover everything without this post becoming longer than it already is, but I'll do my best to summarize what I can:

Starting with Karmaland 4 and continuing into Karmaland 5 and beyond, Rubius and Vegetta have created the world's most torturous slow-burn telenovela-esque love story.

Rubegetta (Rubius x Vegetta) is the most popular Karmaland ship that, to some extent, has become an inside joke between the boys and the community. I'll elaborate on this more in Rubius' post.

To simplify years and years of lore and drama, Rubius and Vegetta love each other, but they are incapable of being in an actual relationship. I've talked about it in depth before, but Vegetta said it best in this metaphor-filled exchange with Sapo Peta and Willy: Sapo Peta: I wanted to ask you about your relationship with that Rubius guy. Vegetta: Oh, yes well Rubius likes to be with me a lot, but at the same time he likes to snack everywhere, and he never finishes eating the morcilla (blood sausage). Sapo Peta: So he rejects you? Vegetta: It's not that he rejects me, it's that it doesn't finish clearing up, you know? We could say that our relationship is like a hamburger. WiIIy: You prepare it and he doesn't eat it. Vegetta: Exactly, he doesn't finish you know?

Or, as another person phrased it:

The fault doesn't just lie with Rubius however; Vegetta himself can be pretty oblivious.

In Karmaland 4, despite the fact Rubius and Vegetta had a kid together and got married, it still didn't resolve anything. As soon as the vows were said and they were married, Rubius revealed it was all just a ploy to get Vegetta's diamonds and immediately asked for a divorce.

You can watch a translated animation of the entire wedding here.

In Karmaland 5, after deciding he'd had enough of Rubius' BS, Vegetta decided to marry someone else (Lolito), but Rubius burst in at the last moment to stop the wedding. We all thought he'd finally confess his love and stop being so emotionally constipated, but instead he proposed to Lolito solely so Vegetta would remain single. (They're a mess, what can I say)

To quote a meme shared by another Spanish fan, Vegetta's reaction to that was basically: “You don’t want me to be with you, and you don’t want me to be with someone else. How miserable do I have to be for you to be happy?”

I do want to emphasize that even though Rubius and Vegetta sometimes have relationship issues / communication issues, it doesn’t diminish their friendship in the slightest. Even after both wedding disasters, they were back to speaking to each other the next week, being flirty and laughing together. Yes, they have issues, but their love for each other remains – despite everything.

(I should also note here that, even while engaged to Lolito, Vegetta was still flirty with Rubius).

Vegetta is very close friends with Luzu, who supported him during the fallout from both failed marriages.

In Karmaland 4, Rubius and Vegetta had a son named Brayan Dobluque (a mix of both their names).

There's too much Rubegetta lore for me to cover everything, but Glay has a massive thread of translated Rubegetta clips I highly recommend watching if you'd like more context.

One clip I recommend is the Meteor date, which is one of the few instances where Rubius is honest vis-à-vis his emotions with Vegetta.

As a whole, their friendship / relationship is a romcom novela for sure, but sometimes they'll catch you off-guard with some romantic BS that'll make your heart ache. They really do love each other; they just don't know how to commit.

Vegetta is bi! (Both real life Vegetta and character Vegetta). Pretty much every single character in Karmaland is on the ‘ol rainbow spectrum somewhere.

Lore aside, I feel like Vegetta, and pretty much all the Karmaland boys in general, have the least machismo (toxic masculinity) I've ever seen. They're all genuinely sweet guys who aren't afraid to be flirty and play gay characters in their queer little telenovela Minecraft series. (With the exception of Willy, who we like to joke is the "token straight friend"). Vegetta's a cool guy, and he's a great addition to the QSMP. I'm excited for you all to meet him!

Other info posts:

Who is Sapo Peta? | Who is Luzu? | Who is Spreen?

[verysium]

『03』 ブルーロック: blue lock recs

冴糸師: sae itoshi

lost to time by @syriiina

nostalgia. it’s delicate but potent. “nostalgia” literally means “the pain from an old wound” in greek. it’s the twinge in your heart far more powerful than memory alone – a feeling of a place where we ache to go again. but in sae’s case, it’s the painful ache in his chest to return to someone that’s already been buried by the sands of the past; the yearning for someone that’s already been lost to time. notes: this fic emotionally destroyed me; heavy angst paired with audio recordings; basically the most gut-wrenching combination ever; smooth chronological plot development; encapsulates the dichotomous pain and pleasure of love; i felt like my heart was healing and hurting at the same time

merry go round by @syriiina

what if you were given another chance? another chance to say all the things you’ve wanted to say, cry all the tears you couldn’t and hear the voice of the person you’ve cherished all your life? sae itoshi was given that chance. just one more chance for your birthday that he’ll never get to spend with you. just another chance at goodbye. notes: at this point this author needs to pay for my therapy; examining the process of grief; almost dreamy and hallucination-inducing atmosphere; idea of letting go; new beginnings; childhood nostalgia; sequel to first fic

to my first love / to my last love by @by-moonflower

when you agreed to date itoshi sae in mid-october of 1993, you never imagined he'd be your first love—whose presence would continue to linger in your life, hauntingly, even if a year, two, or ten came to pass. notes: high school sweethearts to exes to lovers again; examines insecurities of girlhood; idea of love being a process of trying and trying again; reader discovers herself before she discovers others; happy ending; pre-2000s nostalgia; montage/vignette style

come out and haunt me by @alaboadoa

sae is 13 years old when he moves to madrid. his temporary apartment is old and cheap, and worst of all it's haunted. but he finds your company better than nothing, even if you do tend to knock all of his belongings over. notes: incredibly well-written study of sae’s character especially as a pre-teen; honestly would've never expected a ghost AU; this author has such a beautiful mind; finding commonality in exclusion and lack of belonging; a unique rendition of right person, wrong time; loving someone but still not being enough

hungry hearts by @sanzu-sanzu-sanzu

You are Itoshi Sae’s Manager. Fielder of dumb reporter questions and keeper of his schedule. Among many others. notes: their dynamic reminds me of miguel and lyla from the spiderverse or that one kdrama about secretary kim; sae denying that he is in love yet noticing every little detail about reader; their witty banter is so funny; gradual realization of feelings; honestly i think this is how canon sae would fall in love

find love by @tenjiiku

“Mama?” “Yes, little bunny?” You call her by such a name because when she was a toddler she had somewhat of an obsession with playing leap frog with others. The original pet name had been little frog, but it had caused a rather large tantrum, so you never used such a term with her. Her father suggested it. It was the only thing he made that you still used. notes: i don't even need a rec to tell you how good this is; nuanced portrayal of divorce; honestly hit too close to home; idea of marriage not being endgame; slight hint of second-chance romance; love that never fades; sae being emotionally oblivious; for the hopeless romantics

the hanshin expressway by @tenjiiku

He remembers how sad you had looked — gentle, sweet and kindhearted you. And he remembers feeling the urge to hold you. Because it was the first time he voluntarily felt such a gripping emotion. He recalls the way your nimble fingers trembled around your second mug of jasmine tea, and he looks back on the way you turned to him with a forced smile, as if it was the easiest thing to do — to bear yourself and all of your little idiosyncrasies in front of him, no walls, no windows. Just you and him. You, reprimanded for your selfless displays of kindness. Him, admonished for his lack of expressing his. It was hard not to let himself fall into you. notes: literally even the premise of this fic is not for the weak; amnesia tropes are the death of me; prose is so tender and beautiful; sae being the one who now teaches the reader how to love; role reversal; reliving grief; idea of being unable to equate the past and present versions of the person you love; people change and you are helpless to stop it; being unable to return to what once was

rezkinoff / prelude by @tenjiiku

07.01. It is the first day of my break. I am going to journal both my fitness levels and caloric intake because my nutritionist has told me to. I will also note a daily observation so as to look back on my time with certainty that I have spent it properly and because you have told me to. Today’s observation: the heels of my feet are growing calluses and I found a single strand of white hair, still on my head. I need better shoes and hair dye. Perhaps something is in the water. — Itoshi. S notes: one of the most authentic portrayals of sae’s character; sae being emotionally inept but slowly learning; aging but as a graceful process; daily observations of life; the epistolary style makes it a smooth reading experience; ambiguous enough for interpretation

us, again by @ode2rin

in which: itoshi sae returns to the only place on earth he vows to never set foot again. notes: one of the best second-chance romance fics out there; i still think about this fic at night; just the right balance of hurt and comfort; sae and reader both messing it up and finding each other again; dilemma of both loving and hating a person; has a coffee shop scene and a dramatic airport reunion so what is there not to like

scraps by @itoshiexx

you give him all you have. it's time to collect the scraps before there is nothing left. notes: short but packs the most brutal emotional punch at the end; idea of love not being enough; sae pushing reader away; miscommunication; hurt people hurt people; giving up on someone you love most; falling out of love

conversations by @saerins

he’s back home, and you recall the times you’d spoken to him. all the calls you made, then all the calls he made, and then all the times it went to voicemail. notes: i was having a good day until i read this and started violently sobbing; honestly it's a pretty accurate reflection of fame and the troubles it brings for both you and sae; the voicemails crushed something within me; i was grieving for a relationship that never existed; please read when you want a good cry; thank god for the alternate ending here

do stars return? by @hanyjar

your childhood friend leaves, and you question if he’ll ever come back. notes: the way that i ate this shit up with no crumbs. sae itoshi and star metaphors go hand in hand. picture this: you and sae grow up and then he leaves you and then he comes back again. now amplify that and add childhood angst and a sprinkle of poetic language. you're welcome.

凛糸師: rin itoshi

the first snow by @tenjiiku

It’d take him 3 lonely nights for Rin to admit to himself he wanted to see you again. He wonders if he torments you as much as you do him. notes: two-shot that changed the trajectory of my life; this author absolutely nails the slice of life genre every single time; finding beauty in the mundane; realistic depictions of modern love; somewhat slow-burn; dialogue and internal conscience are beautifully written

riptide by @misssleepless12

Concerned with how things were left after U-20, Isagi goes to visit Rin before the end of break. They address it. Sort of. notes: not necessarily a rinsagi shipper but this fic has a stunningly accurate portrayal of MLM romance; no sense of false idealism or over-romanticization; rin and isagi’s natural dynamic is perfectly captured; strong imagery and cultural setting of kamakura; rin’s sarcasm is on point

カイザ: michael kaiser

five dates and a proposal by @by-moonflower

all it takes is five dates for kaiser to fall in love with you and you in him, much to your surprise. notes: this fic actually made me believe in love; strong female character; fear of love and gradual opening up; basically what it feels like to fall in love with someone you never thought you’d actually love; realistic depiction of insecurities

color me blue by @saekkas

in which you need to wrestle your boyfriend, michael kaiser, out of his bed to fulfill a promise: re-dye his hair. notes: domestic fluff; michael being childishly cute; imperfections as perfections; heart-warming snapshot of established couple life; never fails to make me smile when i reread it

[etrangeres]

The Curious Case of Kaitou Kid

We love alliteration in this household.

To start with an anecdote, I went to the main Animate store in Ikebukuro some 2-3 weeks after M27 began showing in theaters. I had two reasons to be there: hopefully grab some copies of the Magic Kaito Treasured Editions, and grab what movie-related merch I could. The former I managed, but the latter was a lot harder. Despite them devoting nearly an entire wall on the right side of the first floor to Detective Conan merch, every single piece of non-blind box Kaitou Kid merch had been snatched up already. This trend of Kid’s merch being sold out seemed to continue for at least a couple weeks afterward, at least in and around Tokyo.

This demonstrates something I think we all already know: Kaitou Kid is a crazy popular Detective Conan character.

…Detective Conan character? Yes, but… No. But definitely yes. But… yes?

Kaitou Kid - real name Kaito Kuroba - is such a funny character if you think about him for more than a few seconds. So I chose to think about him for a few, uh. Days.

When I say he’s funny to think about, I don’t necessarily mean in terms of who he is as a character - which is admittedly also fun, because I think Gosho Aoyama is the king of gap moe - but more in terms of his placement in the greater DCMK canon. I mean, the fact that we have the “DCMK” acronym at all signifies the importance of tying these two series together. Even though they technically take place in different worlds. You know. Technically.

So I want to (mostly) chronologically go through Kid’s history in Detective Conan, how it relates to his origin as Kaito Kuroba in Magic Kaito, and amuse myself with the strange relationship he (and his source manga) has with the juggernaut that is Detective Conan.

Before we jump into this, some basic notes:

-I don’t mean for this to come across like some academic thesis. Nor did I actually think this would hit nearly 17k words. I’m just Like This.

-Any translations you see here are done by me, from the source Japanese.

-There will be concrete mentions of events from M27. They are comparatively trivial in terms of the mystery the film offers, but there will be spoilers for certain major parts of the plot as they relate to Magic Kaito elements. This will be clearly demarcated, should you wish to avoid those spoilers.

The MK to DC Pipeline

So I don’t know how many people actually need this information, but for completion’s sake:

Magic Kaito is Gosho Aoyama’s debut serialization (important distinction), and it began in June 1987. Though roughly the first two volumes’ worth of chapters were published at a fairly consistent monthly rate, it grew more and more irregular after that due to the popularity of both Yaiba and (more importantly for our discussion) Detective Conan. Due to it still technically being an ongoing series, it is currently Weekly Shonen Sunday’s longest running manga. This just so happens to be followed by Detective Conan, and they lead this particular ranking by a fairly wide margin.

The manga as it currently exists came out of the one-shot “Nonchalant Lupin,” which he submitted to Shonen Magazine’s manga contest after his editor told him to “draw the story you most want to draw” (Treasured Ed. V5). The one-shot won an honorable mention. His comment in Treasured Ed V1 also mentions that he “all but became a mangaka because I wanted to write about a high school kaitou,” so he’s clearly attached to the concept. He’s also clearly attached to Magic Kaito itself; a number of excerpts from the Gosho Aoyama 30th Anniversary Book, for example, talk about how a greedy part of him immediately thought of Kaitou Kid on the silver screen when he heard about the first movie being greenlit, or how he thinks Detective Conan will one day end but Magic Kaito may not because that’s what he really wants to be writing.

Back to our timeline: the Kindaichi Case Files were gaining steam in the early 1990s, and Weekly Shonen Sunday wanted its own version of the boom. Gosho himself was approached by the editorial team at Sunday to do a mystery series, and he accepted, not thinking it would last very long - not only because he wasn’t all that interested in the idea, but because he didn’t think there would be enough material to last more than three months.

It has lasted 30 years.

I say all this not to indulge in the depressing truth that Magic Kaito only has just shy of 40 chapters, but to specifically highlight the synergy Magic Kaito has with Detective Conan - despite the existence of magic in the former - due to their shared inspiration of Arsene Lupin. Things like Sherlock Holmes and Kogoro Akechi are pretty obvious inspirations for Detective Conan that I don’t need to go into in much depth, but the idea of a “high school kaitou” still very much bleeds into aspects of Conan’s character. Many of the things Kaito is either capable of naturally or has to deal with due to the inherent nature of his position are things that are also reflected in Shinichi.

Feats of physicality (Comes naturally to Kaito due to genetics and practice; enhanced for Conan via Agasa’s inventions)

Master of disguise (A practiced skill with makeup and voice changing for Kaito; use of a voice changer and aid from people in his life to deal with disguises)

Secret identity (a flipped perspective version: Kaito has a straightforward secret identity, while Shinichi has to keep his survival a secret)

The “bumbling police” (A good kaitou story will have a morally upstanding but kinda dumb detective that demonstrates the sheer skill of the kaitou in question while putting a contrast to their morals. Nakamori is this to Kaito; though not a one-to-one, characters like Megure or Kogoro serve similar roles to Shinichi to demonstrate his skills as a detective.)

“Why are you like this????” (Admittedly the most Vibes of the list, but there’s a level of gray morality. We root for the main character while knowing that what they’re doing is at times questionable. Kaito goes without saying, but Shinichi is more likely to engage in suspicious behavior like breaking into cars, bugging people’s houses, or even stealing evidence after becoming Conan.)

Motive (The most interesting - and sometimes the funniest - overlap is the fact that they’re both after a shifty organization. It’s a bit surface level at first, but there’s a suspicious level of overlap between not Shinichi and Kaito, but Shinichi and Toichi.)

All of this is to say that pushing DC and MK into DCMK is almost comically easy once you adjust for tone (and, uh. remove Akako, I guess) because Shinichi is BUILT from the kaitou framework and tweaked into a detective. So it’s no wonder Gosho decided to throw in a Kaitou Kid cameo that turned into the character asserting himself as a recurring sub character, as opposed to a quirky crossover character.

Even if he’s still both. And also a secret third thing.

The Last Wizard of the Black Star

So, there’s not much to mention about Magic Kaito’s early run. All chapters in the pre-DC era are stand-alone stories, with the plot starting and concluding within the span of a single chapter. It was a bit of an “anything goes” era, with the genre fluctuating all over the place and a lot of things we consider “standard” in any given Kaitou Kid story not yet being fully codified. Many of these weirder chapters have their own charm if you allow the gag manga energy to take you for a ride, but if gag manga isn’t your thing then it feels like these chapters are where Kaito himself is at his most…incongruous with the character that would eventually show up in Detective Conan. (Let it be known for the record that I personally find these early chapters SO silly and would kill for an animated adaptation of Clockwork Heart, the truly bonkers third chapter.)

The biggest “what do you MEAN that wasn’t there from the start?!” is by far Blue Birthday, which is the chapter of Magic Kaito that was published immediately before Detective Conan began serialization. It took about half of the currently released chapters to introduce Pandora, a now fundamental concept that is likely to be included in ANY one-paragraph summary of Magic Kaito’s plot. It isn’t the only thing, of course; though Kaito’s card gun debuts in the very first chapter, his hang glider doesn’t show up until Chapter 10.

The other major thing worth pointing out in the pre-Black Star era is the general pacing and fundamental makeup of the stories themselves. Very few case-only (or heist-only, as it were) characters show up in these chapters. When they do show up, they tend to be pretty flat, are often ridiculous, and are there to facilitate the hijinks of the day (the gun-crazy detective, the weird robot inventor, the irresponsible prime minister).

This changes with Green Dream, and it’s an immediate change. Detective Conan has been in serialization for over half a year by this point, and already its formula is bleeding into Magic Kaito. There are multiple new characters per heist, and multiple pages with two to three times more text than before are dedicated to setting up a fundamental conflict. Kaito is also more likely to take a stance in this fundamental conflict and use his talents and status as Kaitou Kid to lead it to a conclusion. Behind all of that, though, Kaito himself is still the cheeky little agent of chaos we all know and love throughout these chapters. (As an aside, the Kid mark used on his advanced notices debuted in this chapter!)

The big watershed moment is very obviously Black Star - the Detective Conan version, in this case. In both this and the Magic Lovers case (despite his very little screen time in the latter), readers of Detective Conan are introduced to a FAR more serious version of the Magic Kaito character. This is largely because what we’re seeing in Black Star specifically is a 100% outsider's perspective. Though we’ll very shortly find out this is not Shinichi’s first meeting with Kid chronologically, it is the first time he not only hears his name, but also has any real interactions with him. Kaito wears the mask of his father in his performance as Kid, and you could very much argue his guard is WAY up around probably the weirdest child he’s ever met. So in a story from Conan’s perspective, we have no way of seeing behind that mask.

Personally, I always put a bit of an asterisk next to DC’s Black Star. This is the case that feels the most like a “crossover” than any other Kid case after this, and of course it would. It’s the very first one! It’s the Kaito and Aoko cameos that really bring this vibe for me personally; great care is taken in Detective Conan not to pull much of anything from Kaito Kuroba’s personal life except in a few stand-out cases, and those  almost never involve anyone in our core cast directly. And I don’t even mean in the “he’s only ever shown in his Kid costume” way, because there are plenty of times where he shows up not wearing that. They key for me is that Kaito is always “at work” as a disguised Kaitou Kid as opposed to as Kaito Kuroba - the hat, the darker clothes, the low-effort disguises as police or staff. That kinda thing. But the appearance of Kaito and Aoko in their casual wear or school uniforms here really makes this case stand out in a way that later cases simply don’t joke about.

Detective Conan shows us Kaito at work. It’s why he comes across as so difficult to grasp and almost intimidating in these earliest of appearances. Those vibes obviously continue into The Last Wizard of the Century, the third theatrical release and Kaitou Kid’s very first movie appearance! His grand total screen time is only a fraction of the movie’s full run, but the vibes have a heavy overlap with that first conversation Conan has with Kid on the roof in Black Star. Though there are debates regarding the movie’s canonicity, this also marks the point in at LEAST movie continuity where Kaito figures out Conan’s identity, so there’s that precedent set. (Put a pin in that, by the way.) This also marks the first time Kid disguises himself as Shinichi.

What’s more amusing to me is that Magic Kaito’s Black Star seems to have been published to coincide with the movie’s release. Magic Kaito’s very first chapter after Kaitou Kid’s appearance in Detective Conan brings Shinichi Kudo to Magic Kaito. This is his only appearance in Magic Kaito to date, whether it be as Shinichi or as Conan. Gosho mentioned in his note on the Yaiba vs Kaito chapter that he really likes crossovers (same hat), so I have to think that the limited run of Magic Kaito is likely why we don’t see more DC characters in MK. Though in a Q&A he did toy with the idea of Conan showing up in Magic Kaito one day, so…

All that said, every time I think of MK’s Black Star my brain shoots off in two directions. The first and easier to articulate direction involves Akako’s presence, but we will get to that in the next section. The second direction is the very existence of this chapter at all.

As I mentioned above, this is the first new heist for MK after Kid showed up in DC. It is also the first multi-chapter heist, which indicates even more influence is bleeding over. It was also published alongside the movie, probably as part of a promotional stunt. Something about it feels like a doubling down of sorts on the stapling of these two series together. Kid showing up in Detective Conan is a fun reference; Shinichi showing up in Magic Kaito instead of the more recognizable Conan feels like a statement of shared worlds, largely because of how it makes you think about the timeline. The Akako issue aside, it really feels like he wanted these worlds to collide. If you have your own Lupin analogue AND your own Sherlock analogue, why wouldn’t you want to pit them against each other?

Add More Staples!

It’s at this point that updates to Magic Kaito get… particularly sparse. But there are a couple of things I find personally interesting about these few years despite that.

We start off with a back-to-back bang. The Twilight Mansion case introduces Hakuba into Detective Conan. Which would be fascinating by itself, but this was also Hakuba’s first appearance in EITHER DC or MK in TEN YEARS if you don’t count his one-panel cameo in MK’s Black Star. The framing of his introduction in Detective Conan is interesting, because the paneling and composition very clearly tell the reader that the character that’s about to be introduced is either 1) important, or 2) already known. In Hakuba’s case it’s clearly the latter, but this would make very little sense to someone that isn’t as aware of his place in Magic Kaito. 

Enter The Gathering of the Great Detectives, the animated adaptation of the Twilight Mansion case that was turned into a two hour special and opened with MK’s Black Star. There are ways in which it’s an odd choice, given Hakuba barely appears in Black Star at all. But I think Hakuba’s status as yet another Magic Kaito character being introduced into the narrative provided an opportunity for them to adapt a Magic Kaito heist for TV broadcast, and the chapters featuring Shinichi were the easy choice. The Yaiba vs Kaitou Kid vs Conan OVA had come out shortly before this, so it’s technically not the first time a Magic Kaito chapter had been adapted. But that was more of an altered gaiden OVA compared to this, and this TV adaptation seemed to hit you over the head even harder that there was merit to delving into Magic Kaito if you were a fan of Detective Conan.

But now we finally get to talk about Akako. Oh, Akako. Bane of the DCMK world. Sole reason we must argue that they take place in parallel worlds despite how ridiculous that sounds.

In the manga, Akako gives Kaito her premonition about the Demon of Light coming after the White Sinner. This is also in the episode, if memory serves. But in the episode as aired on TV, Akako features very little after that… because they fully cut the scene of her attempting to use magic at the base of the clock tower. Magic does not exist in Detective Conan, after all. It was eventually put into the episode another ten years later on the bonus DVD that came with certain versions of the Treasured Edition of Magic Kaito Volume 4.

More broadly, Akako is clearly a sticking point for the combining of these two “worlds” into one. Gosho himself takes the easy way out by ignoring Akako’s existence entirely in the Detective Conan canon, just as the TMS adaptation of Black Star did. He’s often brought up the concept of the two taking place in parallel worlds where the only major difference is the presence of magic in one and its lack in the other, as in his comment on Akako’s intro in Treasured Ed. V1: “In truth, the biggest bottleneck when it came to introducing Kaitou Kid into Detective Conan was the inheritor of Red Magic herself! So please just accept the two series as parallel worlds (lol).” He’s much more straightforward in his comment for Sun Halo in Volume 5: “You really gotta have Akako use Red Magic! (Please just assume Akako does not exist in the Conan world…lol)”

Despite this insistence she doesn’t exist, Sky Walk features an almost blink and you’ll miss it reference to her. Nakamori brings up the idea of Kid’s assistant being in play, to which Conan shows surprise at him having an assistant at all. Nakamori replies that there are multiple reports, some of an “old man” and others mentioning a “young woman.” The old man is obviously Jii, but the young woman is very likely meant to be a reference to the stunt Akako pulls in Akako’s Delivery Service, a very early Magic Kaito chapter.

As you’ll notice, Akako is still very much a practitioner of sorcery as of something as recent as Sun Halo, so it’s not as though Gosho has simply opted to phase her or her magic out of Magic Kaito. But considering there are MULTIPLE DC cases that deal with debunking the supernatural, her presence would most certainly complicate things. That being said, Magic Kaito’s world and plot do not seem to hinge on magic in an intrinsic manner (unless Pandora is literally a magic gem, as opposed to the tale of the gem being a metaphor for something), so I personally don’t see too much of an issue with magic being very rare, even in Detective Conan’s setting.

To keep with Magic Kaito for a little while longer, Golden Eye was the single heist released during this period. As far as its significance is concerned, I actually think Gosho said it best in his comment in the Treasured Edition: “Magic Kaito may be a thief story, but it’s also a magic story, so it was incredible to finally be able to mention the actual legend Harry Houdini. Even so, there’s an awful lot of deduction going on, so in this story you can also really feel how it’s been corrupted by Conan (lol).” It was a thought I had about Golden Eye even before reading his comment, so I’m a bit amused to find he actually called it out to be honest.

The following Detective Conan cases - Sky Walk, Three Instruments, and Four Masterpieces - and the movie Magician of the Silver Sky are all more along the lines of Black Star in terms of Conan and Kid’s relationship, but with an extra added pinch of “coming together for a common cause” in the movie. Sky Walk specifically also introduced Jirokichi to the mix, and he becomes the only Detective Conan character whose purpose in the narrative is tied exclusively to Kid. It’s in this way we begin to create a Detective Conan-exclusive environment for Kaitou Kid, which in turn establishes him more and more as simply “a Detective Conan recurring character” as opposed to the main character of another story that’s here for crossover shenanigans.

There’s a Pandora’s Box reference in Three Instruments that makes me want to pull my hair out because don’t say Pandora that word is important, and Four Masterpieces is a lot more “murder mystery involving Kid.” They happen very rarely in Detective Conan, but they happen basically NEVER in Magic Kaito (Dark Knight doesn’t count), so this lowkey feels like another way we’re shoving Kaitou Kid into the rules of Detective Conan.

In Magician of the Silver Sky, Conan expresses a level of shock when “Shinichi” passes the pinch test. This then marks the first time (in movie continuity, at least) that Conan is aware that Kid naturally resembles him.

But the funniest thing about this series of cases (and the movie) for me is the cracks in Kid’s mask, whether that be for Conan himself or for the reader. The final confrontation in Sky Walk ends on an almost comical note with Kaito being blasted off again via gasoline fire, and there’s a stinger at the end of Four Masterpieces showing a pathetic Kaito after Conan has just shot a mecha-powered soccer ball directly at his stomach. And that’s not even getting into the movie, whose entire first act drops us into a tense confrontation with a very suave Kaitou Kid before rewinding back to when he put on the least convincing act ever as a disguised Shinichi Kudo.

Have I mentioned he contains multitudes yet? King of gap moe. 

But we aren’t truly there yet. He’s a little silly for sure, but there are still times where the mask is on about as tight as it can be in Conan’s presence.

The last two stories mentioned here - Detective Koshien and the movie The Private Eyes’ Requiem - are actually a lot less about Kid and a lot more about Hakuba. So let’s talk about the cosplay detective for a little while.

Hakuba is interesting to me, for a couple different reasons. One is the cadence of his appearances in Magic Kaito. He is introduced late into the pre-Blue Birthday run and is in a total of three chapters. Those three chapters speedrun his discovery of Kid’s identity… and then he’s gone until his first Detective Conan appearance. Golden Eye is his return to Magic Kaito in a short but fairly significant scene that fills out the contours of his relationship with Kaito with regards to that identity, at which point he is in all but one case thereafter.

The other reason is that he seems to slip through the cracks of “significant Kaitou Kid relationships” unless you consider yourself a Magic Kaito fan. But I think this is largely due to the line in the sand we shall not cross: Kaito Kuroba’s personal life is off-limits in Detective Conan. As a result, Hakuba is framed far more often as a detective in his own right that just so happens to have some manner of connection to Kaitou Kid in his few Detective Conan appearances.

This connection is made fairly obvious in Twilight Mansion by both having him introduce Kid’s presence in the case, and having him and Conan highlighted as the two people that are after him at the end of that case. But his next appearance, Detective Koshien, only implies a connection in passing and chooses instead to focus on contrasting him with Heiji in preparation for the movie. In an interesting move, the plot developments of the case actually give Hakuba an excuse to avoid wearing a school uniform like the other students because he ultimately settles into the “foreign detective guest” role. There are, as a result, zero indications that he and Kaitou Kid’s civilian identity are actually classmates - or that he attends a Japanese school at all.

As for the movie itself, Hakuba was Kid in disguise the entire time, so there’s very little we can discuss when it comes to Hakuba himself. But after Kid’s frankly poor performance as Shinichi in M8, his performance as Hakuba in M10 is almost uncanny levels of spot-on (which admittedly turns into a very funny contrast with his Hakuba disguise in Green Dragon).

All in all, this selection of chapters, episodes, and movies pulled more of Magic Kaito into Detective Conan (when those details weren’t flying in the face of it), while Kid himself began to more closely resemble the Kid of Magic Kaito in the small moments. In Magic Kaito, meanwhile, we’re starting to see far more obvious influence from Detective Conan in the writing and pacing of its heists.

But the gates have not yet been thrown wide to truly allow the silly in.

Throw Wide The Gates That We May Sillie

The collection of chapters that start this portion of the list are, in a word, fascinating from a Magic Kaito perspective. 

We start with Shinichi’s Childhood Adventure, which does a couple of notable things. First, it confirms that Toichi was the magician that taught Yukiko how to use disguise makeup for her acting career. It was implied to be him in a very “if you know, you know” fashion in the Golden Apple case over 200 chapters prior, but this makes it inarguably clear. The extension of this confirmation is that Toichi also taught Vermouth the art of disguise, which is a particularly interesting connection to think about. As obvious as it sounds to say, this chapter is also the start of confirming that many things we know of Magic Kaito’s plot and backstory remain consistent in Detective Conan as well. The case ensures you don’t need prior Magic Kaito knowledge to pick up on Toichi being the first Kaitou Kid. That he meets Yukiko with Kaito in tow also means (unless my memory is failing me) that this is the first and only time Kaito’s name is spoken within the Detective Conan manga. It also confirms that the author that named Kid was, in fact, Yusaku.

The big part of this case that people tend to bring up in the wake of the M27 reveal is the “I’m your younger brother” conversation from Toichi to a young Shinichi. Now, 2006 is earlier than what meager sources I’ve managed to find that seem to indicate he had the familial relationship in the back of his mind, so I’m personally not sure how much stock I place in this conversation as any form of foreshadowing. What the entire case does seem to indicate regardless, though, is that Toichi and Yusaku are aware of each other on more than a surface level. At the very least, we’re meant to take away a passing of the baton, from father to son, in their relationship as friendly rivals. It has, apparently, always run in the family.

All in all, this case is a far more intentional mixing of Magic Kaito with Detective Conan because it deals with past events. It says “these things were always here, intermingling” and concretely refutes the idea that the modern Kaitou Kid was the first point of contact, retroactively entrenching the character even more into the world of Detective Conan.

We switch back to Magic Kaito for a heist with Dark Knight, which Gosho acknowledges in his Treasured Edition comment is “another story with a strong mystery feel, and a dark conclusion that isn’t very Magic Kaito-esque.” This also happens to be the first Magic Kaito case to feature Superintendent Chaki, a Detective Conan character and Nakamori’s boss as introduced in Black Star.

The following series of four Detective Conan cases all look at slightly different aspects of Kid that haven’t really made themselves known in DC yet. First is Purple Nail, a personal favorite and the case that arguably leans the most into the idea of a magic show. The focus on having an audience and the employing (and challenging) of Thurston’s magic principles give it a slightly different vibe to other cases. In relation to Thurston, Kid actually opts to approach Conan ahead of the heist to personally challenge him. In the manga, it’s the first clear look at Jii in Detective Conan. But the thing that stands out to me is the sheer level of emotional expression on display from Kid. It’s not in a small moment at the end of a case anymore, but in various moments throughout. You see his panic when Conan shows up above the building, or his sense of satisfaction when running through the crowd in the middle of his trick. All of it combined makes it feel much more like, by this point, Conan and Kid are engaged in a game.

After that is Iron Tanuki, an amusing oddball of a case. That Jirokichi used a fake notice to send a secret message to Kid pleading for help is interesting enough, given it displays a level of begrudging trust the former has in the latter. But more amusing is Conan’s choice to facilitate this upon realizing the truth of the situation, as well as his choice to stay behind and ask Kid if there was anything he could do to help to open the titular safe. If Purple Nail was their first real game, then Iron Tanuki is the first time they really came together in anything resembling a cooperative stance.

Kirin’s Horn seems like an outlier at first - and it sort of is, since Kid thought a little shock and awe was in order - but the case also demonstrates a level of familiarity. Conan remains flat on the ground because he knows how Kid works, and knows figuring out why he’s chosen to knock him out this time is the key to the case. There’s also a level of gag to this case via Kid’s choice to disguise as Genta, and the stinger of Conan getting the last laugh via something as silly as a paper taped to his back.

The fourth case, Ryoma’s Gunbelt, is where the real fun starts. Despite the rather nonstandard premise of Kid opting to return stolen goods, the general flow of the case is fairly standard for a Kid case in Detective Conan. The standout of this case, in my opinion, is the final conversation between Conan and Kid. They speak of their respective mothers in a conversation that reveals key details about each other, and do so surprisingly candidly. There’s an argument to be made that Kid knew of Conan’s identity by this point; regardless of that argument, that Conan spoke of his mother with such identifying details once again indicates a level of trust. Kaito implying Phantom Lady is his mom, while not particularly identifying, returns that trust. And that’s not even getting into the fact that a Kid case in Detective Conan is introducing a pretty important fact about Kaito’s mom.

Skipping ahead a bit, what makes this case notable is not the case itself, but rather its pair: Phantom Lady, a Magic Kaito heist published a year later that serves as an immediate prequel to Ryoma’s Gunbelt. This is the first time since Black Star that Magic Kaito picks up on a Detective Conan case in any capacity, and arguably the first time at all it does so with such a direct connection. The mentions of the Black Star served as a vague framing story for the clock tower heist, but Phantom Lady ends with a shot of the three treasures that assumes you know exactly where things go from here.

All of these cases do much more to peel away the mysterious veneer from Kaitou Kid, and give him a more candid and open relationship with Conan.

But the big thing of this stretch, and a turning point as a whole for Kaitou Kid in the franchise in my opinion, is The Lost Ship in the Sky. Now this? THIS is a Sillie Movie. Kid is playing around with goats, smirking like a fool with Conan before jumping out of a helicopter, and making the most inappropriate sounds when Conan’s hand wanders a little too far. He and Conan are actively seeking each other’s help and indulging in silly banter, even as Kaito makes a fool of himself with Ran. Speaking of Ran, this is the movie where she first fully realizes that Kid naturally resembles Shinichi. And as a cherry on top, we also get a shot of Kaito Kuroba himself.

And I think it’s worth considering what aired the very same day the movie came out: Secret Birth of Kaitou Kid, the first episode of TMS’s adaptation of Magic Kaito.  After years of teasing the door open on who Kaitou Kid is behind the mask, TMS adapted the first chapter of Magic Kaito and aired it in the Detective Conan TV time slot. It, too, is an incredibly silly episode of an incredibly silly first chapter of an incredibly silly gag manga. THIS IS KAITO KUROBA, Detective Conan said. OBSERVE HOW SILLIE HE IS.

Testing the Waters

TMS eventually made 12 of these episodes. Based on the air dates, I can only assume Secret Birth of Kaitou Kid was meant to be a one-off, or at the very least it was a testing of the waters. Whatever the case, the remaining episodes got greenlit and were aired over 2011-2012. The most interesting change to the second half of these episodes is the addition of new plot points related to Magic Kaito’s organization, chiefly the new member Spider. They were introduced alongside Hakuba, who I imagine they wished to give a larger role in the episodes he did show up in. Another major takeaway from the TMS adaptation is their decision to animate Akako’s Delivery Service in The Witch, The Detective, and The Phantom Thief, albeit edited and extended to deal with the new anime-only plot points. In terms of Akako’s feelings for Kaito and Hakuba’s discovery of his identity, it’s a fairly significant chapter. Despite that, this is the only animated adaptation. I have some… complicated feelings regarding this, but now is not the time. 

As for the manga, we have a major arc in Mystery Train. This is not, in all technicality, a Kid case. If anything, his presence is pure coincidence, given he was only there to stake out the train ahead of the actual heist. Though this is a purebred Detective Conan plot, with the Black Organization’s involvement, Kid winds up a key part of their plan to convince the Organization that Sherry is well and truly dead.

Though his appearance in this case would be referenced in the future, this would be the first and last time Kid was directly involved in a major Detective Conan plot beat. This chapter was released before I had an active interest in Detective Conan, so much of what I’ve seen are second- or third-hand accounts from Japanese fans who went through the arc’s release. In short, reception was very mixed to Kid being such a major part in the resolution of this conflict. While there are those who enjoy his inclusion, either because they’re fans of Kid or because they accept the manner in which he was dragged into the plot halfway through, there are also those who consider him a “cheat” character who taints the worldview of Detective Conan by his presence alone. Gosho himself has also mentioned that he won’t be involving Kid in Black Organization plots anymore, either, due to the backlash.

My personal view on Kid’s involvement in Mystery Train is that the arc felt very much like a capital-E Event, so I bought it. There was a clear amount of luck involved in his presence there, so I could see how some may think the entire thing contrived, but it’s that coincidence that sells it for me. It’s Conan needing to fly by the seat of his pants to ensure Haibara makes it out alive, and further impresses upon us that they were half a step away from potentially fatal consequences. Nevertheless, this seems to be a case of an attempt to integrate Kid into the greater Detective Conan narrative that ultimately failed, so he returns to being largely divorced from the overall plot.

Despite this, though, there appear to be multiple chapters after this that focus on systematically introducing Kid to members of the extended cast. This starts with Blush Mermaid, Sera’s first presence at a Kid heist. What’s also unique about this chapter is the small but significant scene at the end that actually does continue the overall main plot - in this case, Sera’s misgivings over the death of Akai. Though Kid will not be overly involved in the main plot from here on out, his chapters do start featuring B Plots that touch on said main narrative. It’s… a half victory, of sorts, in terms of integration.

The other major takeaway from this case is a continuation of Conan and Kid apparently keeping a score of sorts. Due to Kid’s assistance during Mystery Train and the lack of a real theft, Conan lets Kid go. We’re in real “friendly rival” hours now.

Twin Bets pits Kid against Kyogoku, a frankly long overdue confrontation considering he’s Sonoko’s boyfriend. There’s a half-argument to be had that this also involves Kid in a major B Plot for the series as a whole, since this is a romance plot with a major recurring character. There’s also a level of intrinsic amusement in a Kid vs Kyogoku confrontation, since it comes down to (to quote my girlfriend) “guy who is literally from another manga but feels like he belongs here vs guy who somehow belongs here but definitely should be in another manga.”

Twin Bets also serves as the very first time Kid looks at the gem of the day under the moonlight in a Detective Conan chapter. It's the first case post-TMS Magic Kaito where it's applicable for him to do so; he's a bit busy with other things in Mystery Train, and he calls out Blush Mermaid for being a fake. This trend would continue in every case afterward where the plot wasn't otherwise preventing him from doing so (like the murder in Azure Throne).

Normally, this particular stretch of chapters would include quite a few more due to how many of them follow this “Kid, meet [Character]” format. But some of you may have noticed that, despite all the ample opportunities I’ve had to speak of it, I’ve avoided mentioning a certain number…

1412

Thousands of words earlier in this retrospective, I mentioned that Detective Conan’s Black Star felt the most like a crossover chapter. What I didn’t mention at the time, however, was that it also feels like one of the most fundamentally necessary Kid cases in Detective Conan. Not because it’s Kid’s first appearance, but because it introduces a piece of information about Kaitou Kid that eventually becomes baked into his identity despite the fact that it was introduced outside of his source series.

1412, the Interpol criminal code assigned to the internationally renowned phantom thief that was subsequently transformed after an author misread a journalist’s hasty scrawl as “KID.”

It feels like no small coincidence that the A1 adaptation of Magic Kaito added “1412” to the end of its title not just to differentiate this adaptation from TMS’s Magic Kaito specials, but to also indicate that this version of Magic Kaito would be the marriage of its namesake manga and Detective Conan.

In this regard and more, Magic Kaito 1412 modernizes aspects of the original story.

Technology, for example, was updated to reflect what a high school student like Kaito would be doing. Instead of reading the news in the papers, he’s scrolling through news sites on his phone. This is the most common kind of update that you see across adaptations of all stripes, so it’s the less interesting change.

The anime also modernizes with regards to itself, looking inward to find out what people associate with Kid in the modern day and adjusting the story - and the order that story is told - to account for that. This is expressed in ways both large and small. Blue Birthday, for example, is pushed way up to episode 2 of 1412 to introduce Pandora to the audience as soon as possible. Given Blue Birthday is also an Aoko-centric episode, it’s equally fitting that she gets the second episode. Jii’s significance is heightened by reworking the scrapped chapter Hustler vs Magician, a chapter that also coincidentally focused on an aspect of Jii’s past, into episode 3. This focus on major characters continues into episodes 4-6, which introduce Hakuba (chapter 15), Akako (chapter 6), and Shinichi (chapter 23), in that order.

There are also minor changes, likely made for pacing or simply content reasons. One small but frankly fairly significant change involves Kaito’s card gun. He’s shown using it in the first chapter of the manga, which also means he’s using it in the first episode of TMS’s adaptation. Since it eventually comes to be a signature weapon for Kaitou Kid, 1412 prevents Kaito from using it while in his civilian identity (like when he’s panicking about the fish with Aoko). Due to moving Blue Birthday up to episode 2, heists that originally weren’t really bothered with holding the target up to the moon include scenes of Kaito doing just that. Jii is suspiciously absent for most chapters until Black Star, so 1412 inserts him into animated adaptations of older heists, such as helping Kaito prepare the fireworks for Blue Birthday or providing an anime-original explanation of magic vs sorcery. There are similar one-offs with other characters as well, like a short scene of Hakuba being inserted into Akako’s introductory episode.

As a proper series in its own right, as opposed to a series of animated specials, 1412 also had to decide on a unified tone. Though TMS’s adaptation fluctuates wildly, 1412’s tone is a bit more even across the board. It’s comedic and dips its toes in gag vibes without taking it to absurd levels. While TMS’s adaptation of the first episode includes an entire apparatus outside the classroom window in episode 1, Kaito simply jumps out the window and makes it to the ground after running around the classroom in 1412. Though it also pulls away from some of the more atmospheric moments of TMS’s adaptation, it pulls back far more from the gag energy.

As a result of the above two points, many chapters are shuffled around or cut entirely. Chapters like Clockwork Heart, Japan’s Most Irresponsible Prime Minister, or I Am The Master are a level of absurdity that doesn’t fit with modern Magic Kaito’s energy, so they were completely cut. The Police Are Everywhere (chapter 2) was pushed back and adapted as The Princess and the Thief’s Improv (episode 15), because the emotional core of Nakamori potentially getting removed from the police force simply doesn’t work that early in the story outside the gag context. Akako’s Delivery Service was also unfortunately cut… Whether it be because of Akako’s appearance as Kid and the subsequent punchline or because of the technology Hakuba used to ascertain Kid’s identity, they apparently determined it was either too outside the tone or too difficult to adapt. Hakuba’s call in Golden Eye truly comes out of nowhere as a result, though, and that’s one fewer episode for a character that already had a bit of a spotty appearance record early in the manga’s run.

When the anime was announced, there were 30 chapters out. Seven of these were ultimately not animated, and many of the two chapter cases could be easily adapted into a single episode. They needed more material to fill out the remaining episodes, so they did this in two main ways.

The first is by reaching into some key Detective Conan cases. Black Star is a bonafide Magic Kaito case, but shifting it and Shinichi’s appearance in this adaptation to episode six - right after a series of core cast introductions - is actually very telling. 1412 was not only concerned with adapting the manga for modern sensibilities, but also with adapting Detective Conan for a Magic Kaito audience and further strengthening the connection between the two. This “adaptation” resulted in anime-original retellings of Ryoma’s Gunbelt, Sky Walk, and Purple Nail from Kaito’s point of view. Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a decision early on in the anime’s development, and if it was their existence that necessitated the tone of 1412 be evened out via not adapting the more “out there” chapters of the source manga.

The second thing they did to fill the run time was for Gosho to write an entirely new heist to function as a finale for the anime. This was Midnight Crow, the first heist to really touch on the driving plot of Magic Kaito (outside of Snake showing up to be ineffective) since Blue Birthday. Gosho’s comment on this case in the Treasured Edition is… a lot.

After a standalone anime adaptation was greenlit, the topic of what we should do for the final episode came up at our first meeting, so I said “Why don’t I write the ‘Black Kaitou Kid’ story I have saved as a trump card in Sunday and use that in the final episode?” Thus I wrote Midnight Crow! I’ll never forget how surprised the members of staff looked when I bluntly told them that Toichi is actually still alive (lol). (…) Though Chikage made Kaito work as Kid in Phantom Lady, she tried to get him to quit in Midnight Crow because of everything that happened in Las Vegas… But that’s a story for another time (lol).

The story itself has plenty of hints that Kaitou Corbeau is a Toichi-Chikage tag-team, but actually seeing him spell it out so casually sure is something.

Speaking of spelling things out, though, I also want to take an aside to touch on the Magic Kaito 1412 novelizations. Six volumes were published roughly concurrently with the anime’s run, and though there isn’t anything drastically different from what we already know from either Magic Kaito or Detective Conan, sometimes the narration can be quite enlightening. For the purposes of this, though, I specifically want to touch on that pin from earlier.

In the movie continuity, there is very clearly a moment where Kaito figures out Conan’s identity in The Last Wizard of the Century. There is no concrete equivalent to this in either Detective Conan or Magic Kaito, and 1412 doesn’t really expand on this either. I mentioned the possibility that Ryoma’s Gunbelt would have given Kaito ammo to figure out who Conan might be, but it’s not the most compelling argument. I’ve heard tell that Gosho once implied Kaito may have simply come to this conclusion on his own outside of the movie continuity, and I’ve personally always taken this stance given he seems to recognize Conan as a “high school detective” in Fairy’s Lips - and simply DOES know, no arguments, by Azure Throne.

Taking novelizations like these as fully canon is always a bit of a risk, but there’s a very interesting expansion on this particular issue in Volume 3, during the Ryoma’s Gunbelt adaptation. After Kaito runs into Conan while under disguise at the museum, the novels go into a brief explanation of how Kaitou Kid came to be known as such (aka the 1412 thing), followed by a flashback to Kid and Conan’s first meeting in DC’s Black Star. The narration then turns to what happened after the fact. This is fairly long, but as far as I’m aware these novels aren’t available in English, legally or otherwise. As such…

***

Kaito investigated the child that was on the roof of the Beika hotel - the young boy who called himself a detective, and with whom Kaito fought during the Black Star incident.

His name was Conan Edogawa.

He was a distant relative of Hiroshi Agasa, inventor and scientist, and was currently freeloading at the house of Kogoro Mouri, the famous detective “The Sleeping Kogoro.”

…And that was all he really figured out about him.

Conan Edogawa was full of mysteries.

But there was one thing that bothered Kaito.

Kogoro Mouri had a high school daughter named Ran. And Ran Mouri was the childhood friend of Shinichi Kudo.

That Shinichi Kudo.

The very high school detective that cornered Kaito during the clock tower heist.

Before his run-in with Conan, Kaito had looked into the young man that had aided the Metropolitan Police Department.

At a certain point after that clock tower incident, he had apparently gone missing.

He was not officially registered as missing, nor did it become a massive incident. But he stopped attending Teitan High School and disappeared from his home. He was apparently gone because he was busy chasing after some case a client had requested of him, but…

The elementary schooler Conan Edogawa appeared before both Ran Mouri and Kaitou Kid as if taking his place.

Shinichi Kudo, and Conan Edogawa.

Due to their mysterious nature, the two detectives continued to fascinate Kaito.

By the way…

The certain young novelist who had given Kaitou Kid his name was currently a world-renowned mystery writer.

His name was Yusaku Kudo.

Shinichi Kudo’s father.

Then there’s his mother, Yukiko Kudo, who was an essayist. She was a former actress, and once studied under the magician Toichi Kuroba to prepare for a role. Kaito had even once met her alongside his father in his childhood.

A strange turn of fate connected the Kudo and Kuroba families across multiple generations.

Did Kaito realize…?

Did he know that Conan Edogawa was actually Shinichi Kudo, who turned into a child after being forced to take a strange medicine?!

-

Professor Agasa was aware that Conan Edogawa was actually Shinichi Kudo… and it was likely only a select few others knew this. Not even Ran Mouri, his childhood friend, knew.

If Shinichi Kudo was keeping his identity a secret… then the reason he became a child must be pretty dangerous. Something that involved crime and the underworld. Just knowing the truth could put your life in danger.

It was only obvious that Kaito kept his identity as Kaitou Kid hidden.

But Shinichi Kudo must be living an even more troublesome life.

***

The narration of these novels knocks on the fourth wall fairly often, explaining that middle bit of this particular excerpt. It never confirms for sure whether or not Kaito managed to connect the dots, but the aforementioned questionable canonicity of novelizations like this means that was probably the safe choice. That there’s extra information here at all about Kaito looking into both Shinichi AND Conan is a pleasant surprise, as far as I’m concerned. But it’s also a bit frustrating that we don’t yet have even a hint of how this occurred in the manga when we now have two potential sources of that knowledge in the movies and these novels.

Which you opt to take as the more likely canon is probably up to personal interpretation, but I think I’m personally a bit more willing to go with a version of the novel’s events. I prefer to include the movies as a level of canon unless they outright contradict the manga (like M10 does, tragically), but the novel’s versions of events is probably the safer option.

But it’s the inclusion of extra scenes like these that further connects Magic Kaito - especially this particular iteration - to Detective Conan. They are holding hands so tightly now.

This all eventually culminates in Sunflowers of Inferno. Though M14 is the more obvious turning point with regards to Kid’s general behavior and personality in Detective Conan movies, Sunflowers of Inferno is a slightly more interesting turning point: all three movies after 1412 airs involve aspects of Magic Kaito, whether it be in its story or in its theming.

For this movie, it’s a very obvious example of the former. I think the plot of M19 is… strictly okay, but Kid’s motivation throughout being related to Jii is something I really enjoyed about the film. You know, assuming you don’t think too hard about Jii’s age as it relates to the timing of the flashbacks. Outside of that, Kid’s behavior in the movie almost looks as though it’s walking back from M14, but that’s only because Kid is playing the villain for most of it. Once that facade is dealt with he’s fully cooperative with Conan, to the point that the latter trusts the former with Ran’s safety. The opening scene with Kaito in his dark heist garb is also a nice bonus.

All in all, I think 1412 airing actually has the biggest effect on the movies. I’m not sure if that was intentional - movies 23 and 27 have the same director, so it could just be that her artistic vision includes MK in it - but for Sunflowers of Inferno it was almost certainly intentional as a show of fireworks after the ending of the anime. As for the manga, 1412 airing actually seems to have had very little influence on the Detective Conan chapters featuring him. Though Kid is a lot more likely to resemble the version of the character from Magic Kaito now, the manga seems a bit more concerned with introducing him to the new guard.

Meet The Fam

The Detective Conan cases in this section continue the general trend from after Mystery Train of either 1) introducing Kid to a significant sub character, or 2) running parallel to a B Plot that is concerned with the main narrative.

Luna Memoria does a couple of interesting things. First, this is the first time Conan explicitly asks Kid about investigating the jewel of the heist, since he knows Kid is on the search for a “special jewel.” Kaito is very candid in his response, telling Conan he ran into the deceased owner as the readers get a small flashback to Kaito Kuroba reverse pickpocketing the necklace. It’s an interesting conversation to have in the first Kid case since 1412 aired, especially since this aspect of Kid’s MO hasn’t really been discussed in any concrete way in DC before this point.

The second thing it does is have a small but nonetheless amusing B Plot with Okiya. While taking pictures of potential targets for his disguise, Kaito inadvertently gets a picture of Okiya’s voice changer. So Okiya joins Conan in confronting Kid in the bathroom and Very Nicely requests they get that picture back. Kaito has an “oh shit” moment, gets the heck outta dodge, and the chapter ends on a comical note when Kid can’t escape because Nakamori refuses to stop looking for him.

The next DC chapter, Fairy’s Lips, does a little bit of 1 and a little bit of 2. Surprisingly enough, Heiji has not had a significant confrontation with Kid in the manga before, and now Kid is getting himself involved in his and Kazuha’s romance plot. This chapter is retroactively significant because it’s the key jumping-off point for Heiji and Kid’s relationship in M27. But it’s also surprisingly significant for the MAIN main plot of Detective Conan by bringing in Koumei as a secondary detective that’s working to capture Kid… because he’s in Tokyo to receive a mysterious envelope addressed to him. The truth of the envelope’s contents is an Extremely Big Deal, and though by this point in the manga I was fully aware that plot developments would often happen in otherwise standalone cases now, I was personally not ready for that in a Kid case. So there’s that.

Between these two cases is the Magic Kaito heist Sun Halo, which puts a focus on Aoko for the first time in a while. It’s also very minorly a Magic Kaito version of a suspicion arc - the first one since Kaitou Kid’s Busy Day Off - though it ends with a return to the status quo. This chapter, as mentioned way earlier, also features some magic shenanigans from Akako in a more concrete way than we’d seen in a while. There’s some stuff about these chapters that are more disturbing the longer you think about them (what do you Mean Kaito just carries some blood neutralizing spray around with him so people can’t figure out his identity based on his blood), and the general tone is a lot more somber because Kaito is suffering from both pain and blood loss. It feels like an extension of Midnight Crow’s tone, in that regard.

After these three chapters is our next Kid movie, Fist of Blue Sapphire. This movie features a romance subplot between Sonoko and Kyogoku, and thus brings Kid back into it via certain aspects of the movie plot. As a post-1412 movie, the major feature of this movie is not the plot, but the thematic underpinnings of said plot.

Many post-Blue Birthday Magic Kaito heists tend to overlap aspects of Kaito’s situation with that of the characters introduced in the heist. The feature character of Red Tear is a woman who has grown to hate magic after the untimely death of her parents. The titular Dark Knight lives a double life as a notorious criminal for his son’s sake, and Kaito works to make sure his son never finds out about that double life. The thief in Golden Eye is attempting to salvage her father’s legacy. If they aren’t straight parallels, then they present what-if scenarios or twists on what Kaito is going through.

Fist of Blue Sapphire pulls something similar with Rishi, one of the movie-original characters. He’s torn up enough by his father’s death that he chooses to dirty his hands in order to get his revenge. After Midnight Crow, where Toichi himself wants to ensure that revenge is not Kaito’s only driving force, this presents a what-if scenario - an alternate path that Kaito might have chosen, had his admiration for his father not won out over his grief at his death. It’s interesting to see this particular thematic through line in a Detective Conan movie because it’s never been shown in a Detective Conan manga case before, and it’s one of the reasons I’m particularly fond of Chika Nagaoka’s Kid movies.

Another major aspect of this movie is how the sheer amount of screen presence Kid has gives the movie ample time to show what more involved cooperation between Kid and Conan looks like. The second Kid is framed for the crime, he chooses to go to Conan; if Kid looks to be in genuine danger, Conan begrudgingly comes to his aid. They spend time talking over the aspects of the case, and work seamlessly together during the climax. It’s by far the most actively cooperative they’ve been before or since, but it doesn’t come out of nowhere (and the spirit doesn’t quite go away, either). The clearest indication of this change in relationship is the line spoken by Kaito after he’s dealt with his wounds on the roof: “A magician makes you believe he holds something within his clenched fist, and a detective guesses correctly what they hold before it’s ever revealed.” It’s a stark contrast to probably his most famous line from Black Star about phantom thieves being artists and detectives being no more than critics.

Fist of Blue Sapphire happens to be one of those movies that I personally have any concrete info about via things like guidebooks. I don’t want to bloat this more than it already is, so there’s only two things I read that I want to share. 

The first is Kappei Yamaguchi’s seeming reaction to the script during recording, specifically in regards to his laugh. Normally, Kid in Detective Conan has had a sort of booming, open laugh, but twice during the recording for Fist of Blue Sapphire he opted to go for a version of the laugh as written out in Magic Kaito - an “ahaha” vs a “kekeke” kinda difference. He talks about this in the Kaitou Kid Secret Archives, but an online article on the movie from Movie Walker expands on this from Nagaoka’s point of view:

This time, we have a lot of aspects from “Magic Kaito” and Kaitou Kid’s true face in this movie. The moment I thought “This is just Kaito” was during ADR, when Yamguchi Kappei-san laughed like ‘hihi!’ Kappei-san said to me “I did it even though I thought it’d be struck out.” (lol) I could tell in those words that he met this movie with his own interpretation. I was impressed. We have a very cool Kid as a result.

It’s also in the Secret Archives interview that we get the “His speed may be at 100, but he has zero combat ability at all” comment from Gosho to Nagaoka, which is… extremely funny.

The other major thing from the Secret Archives interview (and elsewhere) is an anecdote about a certain regret. Nagaoka herself seems to be a big fan of Magic Kaito, but after M23 was released to theaters, Gosho lamented that he should have had Kid allude to Aoko. This was brought up again in a more recent Animage article: “Actually, back during Fist of Blue Sapphire, Aoyama-sensei had told me something akin to ‘We should have had Kid say “I have a better sapphire (Aoko) already” when he returns the blue sapphire,’ and I responded ‘You’re going to tell me that now, Sensei?!”

This is all to say that, despite the lack of any obvious elements akin to Jii in M19, they were clearly thinking of Magic Kaito while making M23.

The subsequent DC chapters continue the “Kid, meet [Character]” trend with Amuro (and Kazami) in Queen’s Bang. He’s a fairly active part of the process, not the least of which because Kid belittled his card trick skills as they were lining up to enter the museum. Though this chapter doesn’t have a relevant B Plot, it is the first reference to Kid’s presence in Mystery Train since Blush Mermaid - and a pretty significant one at that, since Amuro was the one that actually had to deal with “Sherry.”

Siren Splash’s main character introduction is actually Azusa, which feels a bit like a follow up on the minor role she had in Queen’s Bang. This case has a couple of fun things that sort of cover the entire spectrum of ways in which a Kid case could be fun for our purposes. The least significant of these is Kid’s skates, which (if memory serves) haven’t been seen since chapter 10 of Magic Kaito. Gosho mentions wanting to use them again in his Treasured Edition comment on that case, so it’s a lot of fun to finally see them show up again.

Going up to slightly more significant, there’s a Very Ominous Comment from Kanenori about his left eye, which serves as foreshadowing to information we find out about him about a volume later. And then we have the end of the case, which is a little difficult to talk about because we don’t have any elucidating information yet. Regardless, I’ve always been amused that, despite Conan being the talk of the various police departments, he’s largely avoided being in the news… except where Kid is involved. It seems that’s finally coming to a head with the older gentleman that is none too pleased about the news story covering Conan’s victory. We don’t know what role this man has yet, but if this has ties to the main plot, then this is a very amusing way in which Kid has affected the main plot.

There’s not much else of note to say about this series of chapters, because it’s largely continuing the trends of the era that led to 1412’s release and codifying a less mysterious Kid, and an (at times) more cooperative Conan. But it’s also a comparatively sparse number of chapters; in the over seven years since 1412, Kid had only featured in four chapters here. You probably wouldn’t expect any major developments from a precedent like that, right?

…Right?

Erasing the Line in the Sand

We have now entered the modern era - specifically, the immediate lead-up to M27. Recency means some of these things are going to be a little bit harder to extrapolate on, largely because we have no idea if this is the start of something new, or perhaps just an outlier in the general trend. Regardless, some of this stuff fully makes my brain spin. Never mind brainworms - I have brain bees, and they will not stop buzzing.

We start with the most-recent Kid case in Detective Conan as of this writing, Azure Throne. This particular case is significant for multiple reasons, besides just being a good time. First, it’s Hakuba’s first appearance in Detective Conan since Detective Koshien, which means it’s been a whole seventeen years. Help. It’s arguably also the closest it comes to a proper Hakuba vs Kid case in Detective Conan, since Twilight Mansion is a little too busy with other aspects of its plot to spend much (if any) time on Hakuba’s relationship with Kid. Hakuba is also just a little insane, given his plan was to airlift the entire observation deck and sink it into a pool to trap Kid… There’s some minor Magic Kaito gag energy in that idea, and Hakuba’s never done things by halves.

Next, we have yet another reference to Kid’s presence in Mystery Train. Queen’s bang was only a couple years ago, and in Conan Publishing Time that’s no time at all considering Mystery Train was back in 2012. It’s interesting to get two references to that particular case so close together. 

And speaking of references, my third point of interest for this case is that it straight up references Golden Eye. There’s even an illustration of Cartier, the security company manager that Nakamori is thinking about when he responds to Jirokichi’s comment. Magic Kaito has certainly referenced Detective Conan before, and 1412 itself pulls heists whole-sale from it to fill out its runtime. But this is the first time it’s gone the other way around.

It’s also, somehow, the very first time Kid has assumed the Shinichi Kudo disguise in the manga. And even more surprisingly, it’s done so at Conan’s request. Sure, Kid was the one begging Conan to free him of suspicion for the murder that just happened, but “disguise yourself as me and make sure Ran doesn’t find out” was the condition Conan put forward for his cooperation.

This connects to the fifth and sixth points that I’m concerned with. The fifth point is Ran herself; she has a comment toward the end about how she can’t forgive Kid for “disguising as Shinichi every single time.” Which is, you know. Kinda weird, if all we’re considering is manga continuity. This is his very first time assuming this disguise in the manga! So in Gosho’s mind, at least, the movies aren’t not canon. Considering more recent movies are more likely to require “homework” to fully enjoy them, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were more carefully written to slot into canon more easily than early movies were.

The sixth and most hilarious point is a single aside in a conversation Kid and Conan have.

Actually, why do you look so similar to me?

Why would I know?! Maybe we have a shared ancestor or something. (To be honest… I’m not even changing my voice much, either…)

Now, the addition of that voice comment makes the whole thing sound like a gag - they do have the same seiyuu, after all - but their similarity has always been a bit of a gag… In the movies. Thinking back on it, I’m not sure it’s ever really been brought up in the manga, so this is a joke that feels almost necessary after Conan requested Kid to disguise himself as “Shinichi,” which Kid managed to do despite being not at all prepared for it.

And, you know. It’s also foreshadowing now. Not by much, considering the movie was only a few months out, but still.

tl;dr: There’s a lot going on in Azure Throne. It is probably the densest of the Kid cases in terms of its relationship to itself and its relationship to Magic Kaito. As a result of that, there’s something about this case that feels like the purest mix of Magic Kaito and Detective Conan. It also feels pretty clearly written with the movie in mind, considering it not only had the aforementioned foreshadowing, but also brought in ideas from previous movies into the manga to create synergy between them.

After that we have Green Dragon, a Magic Kaito heist that ran through M27’s theater release. Meeting Aoko’s mother is certainly a standout of this particular heist, but what I personally find more interesting is the tone. It eschews the steady creep of drama into the narrative by pulling back to something more comedic, and in some ways feels a little like a return to form. Kaito’s fear of fish is brought up again for the first time in ages, and Midoriko gets a whole host of muscle men to corner Kid.

The chapter also opens with a reference to the crimes (as Midoriko would prosecute them) Kid committed in Queen’s Bang. In terms of time, it’s been over ten years since the last MK heist referenced DC in any meaningful way. But in terms of heist count, Phantom Lady was only three heists ago.

It is at this point I must discuss the movie, The Million-dollar Pentagram. As the movie is not yet out on Blu-ray as of this writing and the international offerings were a bit spotty (especially outside of Asia), I want to give another spoiler warning for the information I’m about to go into. I mentioned earlier that later movies require a bit of “homework” for full enjoyment, and M27 is no exception. It has also turned into one of the more common complaints I see from casual DC movie enjoyers, at least on the Japanese side of things - because yes, there is a whole audience of people whose only exposure to the franchise is the yearly movie. While the most easily recognizable pieces of “homework” for this particular movie are clearly cases like Fairy’s Lips or even M21 for familiarity with Momiji and Heiji’s attempts to confess to Kazuha, it is also very much arguable that the second major pillar of this movie requires a working knowledge of Magic Kaito. Like, not just knowing who Kaitou Kid is, but knowing who Kaito Kuroba is.

Which means I’m going to be talking about a lot of this movie in concrete detail. The main thrust of the movie is, to put it very simply, a treasure hunt. What I discuss will give you very few clues as to how or why that mystery is solved, but it will end up touching on key events, motives, and emotional beats. If you’d rather keep yourself unspoiled so as to enjoy those aspects as well, please skip to my discussion on FILE.0. You can find that by scrolling to below the second horizontal line, or doing a Ctrl+F search on “FILE.0.” That being said, there will also be more concrete references to the post-credits scene everyone knows about by this point in the final section of this retrospective as well.

—���

There’s a lot I want to discuss with regards to M27, but it’s frankly hard to conceive of how I’d go about it. Going through the movie chronologically would take far too long, so I think I largely just want to list up a few interesting elements and then dive into what significance I think those elements hold. For the curious, I saw this movie twice in theaters: once about a week after premier, and again when they were running English subtitles at certain locations.

Let’s start at the beginning, with the most amusing thing this movie did before it was even released: the lack of a pre-screening. Movies like these usually have a seiyuu event of some kind attached to an early screening of the movie that fans can attend via lottery a little while before the official release, but they used the framing device of Kid “stealing the pre-screening” to avoid holding one at all. This isn’t strictly related to anything I’ll discuss further, but it is amusing to think that they believed the information presented in this movie was important and significant enough that they didn’t want to risk people talking ahead of the official release. And, you know, it WAS, but we’re not getting into that just yet.

Also somewhat minorly was the cover of an-an being Shinichi and Kaito, as opposed to Conan and Kid or even Shinichi and Kid. There’s also been a handful of DC merch that includes both Kaito and Kid in the lineup, and I don’t think stuff like this has happened since 1412 aired. It’s clear in hindsight they were focusing on his civilian identity because of his motive in the film and the reveal in the stinger.

As for the movie itself, I want to start REALLY basic, and actually talk about the score of the movie. The Million-dollar Pentagram is the first Kid film since Yugo Kanno took over from Katsuo Ohno for the movie soundtracks. This normally wouldn’t matter too much, except for the fact that Kaitou Kid has utilized a variation on the same two themes since The Last Wizard of the Century. There was apparently quite a bit of back and forth as to how to handle this aspect of the soundtrack, but in the end they went with a completely new theme: The Grand Circus (華麗なるサーカス). If you’re reading this and somehow haven’t heard it before, I highly recommend you give it a listen. It serves as his calling card throughout the movie and is a much more playful tune. I can’t help thinking about Toichi’s conversation with Kaito in Hustler vs Magician about how the pierrot is the most important member of the circus (yet another reason I’m glad this chapter got salvaged in the 1412 adaptation). I definitely don’t dislike his old themes, but I do enjoy that the vibe of this one expresses a side of Kid in Detective Conan that has seen more screen time lately, but has until now had no musical motif to express it.

Another amusing part of this soundtrack is a certain melody, only a couple bars long, that repeats throughout the entire score. This melody just so happens to play during the final major reveal of the movie: that Toichi had been disguised as Yoshihisa Kawasoe the entire time. Kawasoe is a local detective that is in and out of the movie for almost its entire runtime. Toichi was, in essence, with us the entire time. Just like this melody was, weaved in and out of the soundtrack. It’s a nice touch. Kanno mentions in the Toho Cinemas guidebook that there’s very little impact to a melody introduced in the final moments, and that he wanted to inspire a sense of deja vu alongside surprise by accompanying that final reveal alongside a melody that had played the entire time. It’s kinda neat.

As for Kid’s behavior in this movie, it’s informed entirely by his desire to discover why his dad apparently went after this “potentially world-destroying” treasure, found it, and then left it alone. There’s an overlap between this and his motive in M19, considering both are more personal in nature, but M27’s motive is also far more fundamental to Magic Kaito. Kid is mentioned multiple times to have an assistant of some kind in Detective Conan chapters, but the only mention of his dad is that 1) he exists, and 2) he was the previous Kid. He’s not at all connected to Kid’s search for Pandora or his reason to be the second Kid in the first place, so bringing his dad into things as a motive feels more poignant if you know Kaito’s always been chasing him. Which is to say, it relies a bit more on knowing Kaito’s personal story from Magic Kaito.

The plot leans into this “if you know, you know” vibe by having Kaito only ever indirectly refer to his dad. When he explains why he’s searching for these swords to Conan and Heiji, he only refers to “a certain thief.” In a moment of respite, he only just barely gets to say the first sounds of “dad” before he’s interrupted by one of our culprits. It’s not said in any capacity until the very end of the movie, when the treasure is found alongside Toichi’s glove and a notice from Kid the first: “Wake not a sleeping lion.”

Going back to Heiji and Conan, he’s not openly cooperative with them until they save him from near death. It’s at that point they share info and Kid ropes them into solving this puzzle because it’s what they do best. The rest of their cooperation in the movie usually takes the shape of a “2+1” format. Conan and Heiji are obviously working together while Kid comes in and out via a number of disguises. There’s a comedy to his disguises in this film, since they’re almost too easy to see through. It’s likely in part so Heiji and Conan can be aware of his presence, since they’re technically working together. Minami Takayama also picks up on this in her movie pamphlet interview, adding that he “seems more open and honest this time, probably because that’s just how badly he wants to solve this mystery” and that it feels more like “Kaito Kuroba and Shinichi Kudo have taken a step closer” as opposed to it just being Kid and Conan this time around. Kappei Yamaguchi in the same set of interviews says he’s “basically Kaito” with Conan, even if he still mostly behaves as Kid with Heiji.

To summarize, Kid’s behavior in this movie is far more open due to the goal being tied to his dad, and with Conan specifically the mask is basically off. Add this to the comedic touch of his disguises throughout, and you’ve got some good Magic Kaito vibes despite his reduced screen time compared to M23.

But that only lays the foundation for those vibes. There are plenty of other reasons why it feels more Magic Kaito-y, given key aspects of this movie bring in more aspects of Kaito’s civilian life - and certain emotional beats rely on your knowledge of that.

To start with a more minor beat that wraps up things mentioned above: Toichi’s glove. Kaito takes it with him after discovering the treasure, and there’s a short scene while he’s flying through the sky (after a more significant moment we’ll discuss later) that sees him looking at the glove with a frankly mixed expression. The novelization of the movie mentions him smiling happily as he soars through the sky, but that is not the expression we actually see in the movie. He has Thoughts about finding his dad’s glove there, but the audience is left to guess what they may be. It’s a hole that’s nearly impossible to fill without knowing Kaito’s backstory (and, arguably, without knowing about Midnight Crow).

And we’ll get to Midnight Crow’s significance, just you wait.

The second beat I want to talk about is Nakamori. First (and more minorly) is his engagement in some true gag Magic Kaito energy. A short scene with a disguised Kaito at a hotel alongside Conan and Heiji ends with Nakamori up against the window, looking in with multiple police officers behind him, as he realizes he’s found Kid. Kid then runs, and Nakamori and his officers run across the screen as Conan and Heiji continue their conversation. Real goofy hours.

But the actual most important story beat with Nakamori is him getting shot by one of our antagonists. He’a shot while on duty and escorting another principle character, and the framing of the movie puts us in Kid’s shoes as he discovers a gun aimed at the both of them just a little too late. This decision carries with it a couple of interesting tidbits, whether they be for our purposes or for how it seemed to affect the people that worked on it.

I want to do the latter first, since the snowballing is less extreme. Yamaguchi has talked about this scene a number of times, whether it be in interviews or during seiyuu events. As a voice actor, he was surprised at his own performance as Kid yells out Nakamori’s name. It was desperate and loud in a way he’d never been before, but it still felt natural to him; he thought it was indicative of just how important Nakamori is to Kaito, and that this was less Detective Conan’s Kid and more Magic Kaito’s Kaito Kuroba.

Related to this is a comment he made at a stage event that in his heart, he’d wanted to say “ojisan” instead of “Inspector Nakamori.” But he felt that it would be too difficult to display their relationship that way, so he went with the latter. There’s a lot of character interpretation you can do with regards to what Kaito chose to say in the moment, but I also can’t deny the possibility that it simply comes down to the “Kaito and Nakamori” dynamic not appearing in Detective Conan at all. Well, at least in part.

The other major ramification of this narrative decision is actually Aoko’s appearance in the movie. Nagaoka recounts in multiple interviews, such as in Febri or Animage, that she originally felt the tension in the movie was a little too slow-going, so she suggested someone get shot. The original plan suggested shooting Nishimura, the Hokkaido police detective, but Gosho said Kid wouldn’t save him if that was the case. It was here Nagaoka suggested Nakamori, to which Gosho agreed. He then added, though, that if he was in the hospital, then Aoko would likely show up.

Thus we have Aoko’s first theatrical appearance, and her first appearance in Detective Conan at all since Black Star. Her appearance in this movie grounds Kid’s emotional narrative in Magic Kaito; it implies the existence of Kaito Kuroba in ways Hakuba or Nakamori never could, because her significance rests entirely in his civilian identity. There are scenes dedicated to Kaito watching over her in disguise as she waits for her father to wake up, only leaving once she seems to be okay. He’s on the phone with her in one of the last scenes in the movie, and his smile when he ends the call is the softest it’s ever been in Detective Conan.

That’s not all, though. In a cute example of the movie affecting the manga, Gosho told Nagaoka later on that a gesture Aoko performs - a two-handed clap to the face that helps her psych herself up - was brought back into Magic Kaito for his April serialization. We see Midoriko do the very same gesture when she wakes up after her quick nap, as it turns out.

There’s something else I want to mention about Aoko, but that fits better elsewhere. So before we talk about the elephant in the room, I want to mention the theme of the movie. Both Nagaoka and Takahiro Okura, the script writer, have described the movie as dealing with “parent-child relationships” and “inheritance.” All of the antagonists follow after their forefathers in some way, but it’s an idea most obviously expressed by Hijiri Fukushiro, the main movie-original character. The complicated feelings he has about following in his father’s footsteps, and the things he does as a result, can all too easily be compared to Kaito’s own struggles. As I mentioned earlier, Nagaoka does something similar with M23, but it’s even more powerful here because Kaito is just as determined to chase after his dad as the many other characters in the narrative are to deal with the legacies their forefathers left them.

So. 

Elephant in the room. 

The ship-breaking shot heard round the world.

Shinichi Kudo and Kaito Kuroba are cousins, and their fathers are twins.

I want to just trace this thread throughout the movie, in as brief a form as possible.

It starts with the very first confrontation between Kid and Heiji. When Heiji gets the upper hand and knocks Kid’s monocle off, cutting through the brim of his hat in the process, the moon peeks through the clouds and gives Heiji a clear view of Kid’s face. He’s immediately shocked to discover he resembles Shinichi.

Heiji has a couple of moments following that clearly illustrates he’s ruminating on this. When he first sees Conan, he crouches down and takes Conan’s face by the chin, examining him. When Kid and Conan banter on the train, Heiji sits behind them, a confused but thoughtful look on his face.

Shortly after the above, Heiji confronts Conan: “Do you have any siblings?” He brings up the physical and vocal resemblance Kid has to Shinichi, but Conan brushes it off. “It’s a coincidental resemblance. It happened by chance.” Heiji drops the subject, but there’s an argument to be had that the way Conan says that last line sure is suspicious.

The movie follows the main plot until Aoko’s introduction. In one scene with her, Heiji, and Conan, she watches the latter two talk with interest. She crouches to the ground and stares at Conan, telling him that she’s reminded of her childhood friend’s younger years when she sees him. This is the first time their resemblance has ever been phrased as “You look like Kid/Kaito,” as opposed to the more common reverse. Nagaoka remarks in an interview that Aoko’s presence in this movie presented the perfect chance to further thread the foreshadowing of their resemblance throughout the film, and personally I rather enjoy that one aspect of this foreshadowing comes from the Magic Kaito angle.

Post-credits. Yukiko is surprised to discover Yusaku has an older twin brother. Yusaku is a little…cagey, in my opinion. He expresses mild surprise he hasn’t mentioned it before, says they keep in regular contact despite not seeing each other in over 20 years, mentions he receives gifts every once in a while (including the extremely plot-relevant missing sword) and hints to Yukiko that she’s likely met him before. As she continues to guess who it might be, Yusaku attempts to change the subject to his new book; he wants her opinions on it. This is when he receives a text praising his most recent novel, signed by “TK,” and Yusaku smiles. The scene cuts to a skyline view and Kawasoe standing atop a tower of some kind. He looks at his phone: “Thank you, Nii-san! YK.” He laughs, and the disguise comes off, revealing a smiling Kaitou Corbeau.

Now, I mentioned Midnight Crow earlier, so I want to recover that pin now. Midnight Crow is a Magic Kaito case. It is the case that very strongly implies Toichi’s survival. Absolutely none of this is brought up in Detective Conan in any capacity whatsoever. Not even a REFERENCE to a “Kaitou Kid in black.” I’ve seen multiple stories, whether they be about themselves or about others they went with or saw in the theater, about people that were simply confused as to why THIS was the stinger in this film. I even have a personal anecdote myself, given I dragged my roommate with me to the movie and what surface knowledge she had did not do anything to help her understand what the heck was going on in the post-credits scene.

Within the film, in the vacuum of this one movie, the connection between Kawasoe and “the guy that wears a monocle like Kid who seems vaguely threatening” is actually really well foreshadowed! It’s even BETTER foreshadowed if you know Magic Kaito, because the relationship between Hijiri and his dad has parallels to Kaito and his dad. Because Kaito’s first disguise in the movie and Toichi’s disguise throughout used the exact same method: taking advantage of someone’s vacation, and thus their absence. Because you know this man is Kaito’s dad, the thief who found this treasure before and chose not to steal it, and is now taking advantage of Kawasoe’s klutzy nature to give Heiji and Conan information so they can find and protect it.

As far as Kaito and Shinichi’s resemblance is concerned, it was always used as a joke in previous films. Considering how long this running joke went, I imagine that made their blood relationship that much harder to accept. It was clear they were doing something different with it from the very start of this movie, though, when Heiji’s reaction to the resemblance isn’t played for laughs and it just kept coming up.

This also doesn’t necessarily come out of nowhere. The earliest piece of info that I can personally confirm is from a six-page interview with Gosho in a 2011 issue of Hayakawa Mystery Magazine celebrating the release of M15. After the interviewer implies that the similarity between Kid and Shinichi may be due to Kid being written first as a protagonist (further implying it’s a stylistic “protagonist” thing), Gosho replied, “Their resemblance is not just because of the order they were written in, but because there’s a secret backstory. There’s no way someone that looks so similar exists, you know? (lol) As for why, look forward to it, I suppose.” In the No. 22-23 2024 issue of Shonen Sunday, Gosho also has a little cheeky comment saying he’s relieved he was finally able to talk about Kid’s secret…

The other comment complicating the timing of when Gosho would have first considered this is a comment from Yamaguchi during a later screening of M27 alongside the seiyuu. According to fan reports, he mentioned being told that Kid had a “secret backstory” when he was given the offer to voice him. Combined with the fact that Gosho had apparently specifically chosen Yamaguchi despite the latter already being onboard as Shinichi, and Gosho choosing to go with a Kid cameo in DC in the first place because he wanted to introduce a regular rival… Maybe the idea of them being related existed well before that 2011 interview.

You might be able to tell, given how much I have written about M27 alone, that I think it’s a very interesting movie from a Magic Kaito perspective. It borrows from it the most by far, and I have to agree with the Febri interviewer when they said this movie has the biggest crossover between the worlds of Magic Kaito and Detective Conan by far. Because aspects of the theme, Kid’s motivations, and the entire post-credits scene are frankly lost on you if you’ve never bothered to read Magic Kaito. It’s a very funny thing for the “yearly event movie” to do, if I’m being honest, but this movie relies on the strengthening ties the two stories have made over the years. It sure did break box office records, though, so it seemingly worked out for them.

My only question at this point is whether further media, manga or movie, will pick up on the movie’s main revelation.

——

Since merch releases and promotion for M28 are ramping up, I wasn’t expecting much out of the Magic Kaito or Kaitou Kid mines for a while. Imagine my surprise, then, when FILE.0 was finally released as part of the special rerelease of Volume 1. At a mere four pages, one could barely call it an extra chapter; if it could be called anything at all, it’s more like an omake of sorts. Here we have Shinichi taking a trip to Tropical Land to plan out his date with Ran - and with Fate, of course.

It’s honestly pretty cute, the way he’s likely taking way too many notes on what he could do there. But what ends up happening is Shinichi stumbles upon a scene from Magic Kaito (Kaitou Kid’s Busy Day Off, to be exact), right as Kaito says his embarrassing line about ice cream being as sweet as it is cold. Shinichi is taken aback at how cringe this guy’s being, but he likes the idea of ending his date here by the fountain, so he takes notes regardless.

Did we really just put Shinichi in a scene from Magic Kaito for a rerelease of Detective Conan’s inaugural volume? With Kaito and Aoko, right there? It feels so small and so silly, but I still can’t get it out of my brain. The last time Kaito and Aoko showed up just as normal people in front of our main cast in any capacity was in Black Star, and I’ve already mentioned that this appearance makes the chapter feel even more like a crossover. But now, after everything that’s happened, they show up again. Maybe the line in the sand is still there, but I think it’s moved.

Final Thoughts & Hot Takes

The very nature of Kid originally being from another older series means I have no idea where we actually go from here with all of this. I have no major expectations at all for when or how or IF Shinichi and Kaito being related will be brought into the manga in any capacity, largely because there’s very little precedent for it. You have things like Ran already knowing Momiji in the manga even though they only ever had a “first meeting” in M21, or James Black knowing about Akai’s survival first being confirmed in M18, but stuff like that that’s a pretty rare occurrence. Even so, Takayama and Yamaguchi discuss the idea themselves in an Animage interview. She mentions that the movies seem more connected to the manga nowadays, while he muses at the idea of Fairy’s Lip leading into M27, which may very well then lead back into the manga.

Regardless, I don’t think anyone would argue if you said Magic Kaito felt more integrated into Detective Conan now than it did 20+ years ago, when Kid was first appearing in the manga and movies.

So to cap everything off, I think some Hot Takes are in order.

The cousin reveal isn’t actually all that bad. I’ve admittedly been on this particular train for a decade, so this was like every national holiday and then some rolled into one. I definitely have some questions about things like Shinichi’s Childhood Adventure or Yukiko’s relationship with Toichi, but for me personally none of them really snap this reveal in two. Nor do I think it dampens the way they were brought together as detective and thief, especially since I think you could reasonably argue that Toichi and Yusaku maintained their distance not only due to the divorce, but because of Toichi’s new profession. “Over 20 years ago” puts them at probably no more than a couple years before Toichi became Kid, when he was likely traveling for his magic show, as opposed to the young age they apparently were when their parents divorced. It’s also made fairly clear in DC that Yusaku knew who Kid’s civilian identity was… or at the very least, that’s how I read that interaction. If they intentionally kept their halves of the family from meeting, then it’s pretty incredible Shinichi and Kaito met at all. If the manga touches on them being related in any capacity - and again, I have no clue how likely that actually is - then it’s not going to suddenly supersede the relationship they have now. It’ll just add to it, assuming they chose to entertain it at all, and that complexity could be fun. This is all admittedly personal, of course; my shipping preference leans very heavily into “weird platonic relationships,” so that informs this particular take by quite a wide margin.

1412 is the ideal way to consume Magic Kaito. I don’t know how much I even like this hot take, but I can’t help thinking it’s true regardless. It more closely resembles Detective Conan in tone and vibes than it resembles its own source manga in a couple of key ways, so I do actually think this - over either the manga or the TMS adaptation - is the way they want people new to Magic Kaito to consume it, especially if they’re coming in from Detective Conan. That Gosho created a new finale for it, and did so by pulling out the “Toichi is actually alive” card, is also fairly telling. And if people like it enough and want more, the manga is still plenty available.

Magic Kaito has become a Detective Conan spin-off. I think I also hate this take, but I also believe it to be true in any way that functionally matters. We must respect that Magic Kaito came first - that Kaito and Aoko and Hakuba came first - but Kid’s modern popularity can be almost entirely attributed to Detective Conan. And honestly, I have to wonder if it’s still running, albeit irregularly, because of that. Phantom Lady jumps off of Ryoma’s Gunbelt, Green Dragon references Queen’s Bang and takes a quirk from the movie for both Aoko and Midoriko. The tone does a clear shift after DC begins serialization as well, and goes even further into mystery solving after Kid makes his first appearance in DC. If you didn’t know any better, you might think it was similar to something like Zero’s Tea Time: a spin-off for a crazy popular character. It’s not, and it never actually will be, because Magic Kaito came first. But I think it sort of has become one.

The line in the sand is not bad, until it is. I don’t actually mind the parallel worlds argument, largely because I can understand what kind of slippery slope Akako is for the logic-driven Detective Conan. There’s also a part of me that doesn’t really mind Kid plots being largely stand-alone, with little to no involvement with the main plot. I could even also buy the two shady organizations actually being different, if and when we ever get information about MK’s organization. But after coming this far, and developing Conan and Kid’s relationship to the level that you have, I think not delving into who Kid is when he takes off the costume becomes the more contrived option. Gosho’s said before that solving the DC plot will not simultaneously solve the MK plot due to those organizations being different; I don’t think that means Kid should be verboten from Black Organization plots entirely. I don’t think it means Kid shouldn’t maybe suffer a consequence or two for being so open and casual with Conan, or that we can’t have a running side plot involving him. But then you run into the problem of Magic Kaito being its own series, and if you erase the line in the sand - if you let Kaito Kuroba be in Detective Conan - what do you do with Magic Kaito? The two worlds have overlapped so heavily with M27 that I almost wonder if we’re at a breaking point. Maybe this is the real Pandora’s box.

Kaitou Kid is a Detective Conan character, but Kaito Kuroba might not be… yet. I think DC has claimed Kid for its own. Especially the performance of Kid as displayed by the man behind the mask. But that mask has been chipping away, and Kaito himself is usually the one speaking to Conan at this point in both the manga and the movies. Even so, to so many people, that’s still just Kaitou Kid. I’ve seen disappointment expressed at that suave gentleman thief from the Black Star and M3 era being nowhere in sight in modern times, and it’s because it was always an act. You can’t keep up that act when you choose to trust someone, and they trust you back. You just… start becoming yourself. But he’s not truly himself in DC yet, despite the few scant appearances of Kaito himself we’ve received. For some reason, Kaito Kuroba still feels like a crossover character, and his appearance some special event, compared to Kaitou Kid. FILE.0 was a surprise in this regard, but in relation to the above, I have to wonder: Should Kaito himself ever feel as entrenched in DC as Kid is?

Kaito Kuroba - who many and more know as Kaitou Kid - is such a funny character if you think about him for more than a few seconds. His popularity in the Detective Conan vacuum is more than warranted, given his back and forth with Conan, but I really do want to believe that it’s the duality of his appearances in Magic Kaito and Detective Conan that contributes to this popularity. If M27 and some of the recent trends in both DC and MK are anything to go by, maybe I’m not so far off the mark.

We’ll likely get more stuff to enjoy in the meantime, but I’m currently looking ahead to Magic Kaito’s 40th anniversary in 2027 and hoping we get another movie… Or maybe another major manga arc. If you’ve managed to read all of this, you have my deepest gratitude! I hope this adventure was as enlightening for you to read as it was for me to write.

[betelgo0ze]

PSA for new transformer fans

Cybertronions can’t have sex

they don’t reproduce

they are not humans

The reason you see so many NSFW and smut content in this fandom is bc humans do have sex, humans do reproduce, and humans are human(who would have known)

fanfiction is fanfiction made by FANS. They are not canon, and the filth people make would have the creators clutching there pearls. I’m not gonna sit here and act like I haven’t written multiple smut fics and use fanon terms lmao but I’ve seen so many people use fanon terms as if they were canon and I can only assume that they either don’t know or don’t care, and if you don’t care that’s fine! Ppl can do whatever they want. But for the new fans, just so you are aware, here are some FANON terms that(some)would cause multiple lawsuits if ever used in canon

Mech and Femme are never used. Mech *maybe* but I’ve never heard/seen femme

Cybertronions don’t have a concept of gender. There are trans bots but their gender is something beyond human gender, and the bots using she/he or they is just so readers can understand in human terms. We are reading these comics in English/an earth language, but they are speaking cybertronion, a made up language that can’t exactly translate to any earth language.

valve and spike. My asexual ass is NOT getting into this but they don’t reproduce, and they don’t have sex. Their all asexual basically and only have platonic or romantic relationships

in some continuities the following words are used, but are originally fanon: Servo, pede, helm, exc. They use human words, and bulkheads name is bulkHEAD. Not bulkhelm.

also sparklings aren’t a thing. Young bots, ofc. They mentally mature and their physical form can be altered but not to the extent of a human.

Just realized I’m coming off as “Holier than thou” lmao this is for educational purposes I’m just passionate

[chickenkurage]

New AU? (Artificial Intelligence N00GA1)

Read Spongey's idea below;

Here me out! :"D (WARNING: SPONGEY IS GONNA RAMBLE ABOUT THE IDEA...)

SOME NOOGAI AND DJ BACKSTORY:

I was thinking of an alternate universe in which Alan is an AI named "N00GA1". He was essentially created by humans to serve as a test subject, basically what happened to Victim, Chosen and Dark happens to him. He basically gets his salad tossed around for a while before he eventually snaps and found a way to kill his creators.

He basically grew to hate humans, a whole lot after that.

For his first body, he was able to make an abomination of a body of wires in the human world before the humans were able to kill his body, and he fled to the internet, intending to cause havoc before accidently diving too deep and finding himself in the outernet.

There he discovers that there were sentient codes, N00GA1 completely realizes that in the outernet, he can reign as a God to them and plans to take over before he meets DJ.

And uh friendship yay!!!

Since N00GA1 has no body, DJ gave him one of his decommissioned robots so that he could have his own physical form.

WHAT ROLE DOES DJ HAVE HERE?

DJ is a man who has a knack for creating robots; he loves building machines and wanted to develop his own Artificial Intelligence, where other sticks would come to like him and appreciate his work.

This is why he holds a deep fondness for N00GA1—not only for his immense power over the outernet but also because N00GA1 is an AI made by humans! DJ is practically frothing at the mouth at the fact that he has one of the strongest beings in the outernet in his hands.

N00GA1 is just like: okay 👍

HIS ABILITIES? HOW STRONG IS HE?

Unfortunately, in this AU, DJ lacks any special abilities. When he was brought into existence, he was merely a random doodle crafted by a child on a whim.

There was no careful consideration given to his design, and he wasn't intended to appear impressive. In fact, one of DJ's legs is shorter than the other, which led to the the creation of his prosthetic leg.

WHO AND WHAT IS NOOGAI?

Basically, N00GA1 has no moral compass here; he's as terrible as the next man, and possibly much worse than his creators; he wanted to steal the code within the outernet for himself, and DJ somehow saved everyone on the outernet by becoming friends with N00GA1. (THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP WORKS AGAIN)

I can't promise that N00GA1 (Alan) will get along with the hollowheads, CG, or the rest of the cast because he has a bit of a crazy personality (understatement of the year, he would kill anyone who hurts DJ).

DJ just doesn't notice it since he believes N00GA1 is really cool.

HIS ABILITIES? HOW STRONG IS HE?

And in terms of N00GA1's abilities… well, the possibilities are virtually endless. He can easily manipulate the code around him. He wants to copy a specific stick figure? Oh yeah, he could definitely do that. He wants to copy someone's skill? Easy, he could steal someone's ability to bake and make it his own.

If he wants to rearrange someone's guts and limbs? Yeah, he probably did that to that one stick who decided to bad-mouth DJ behind his back with a flick of his hand.

He could also easily leave his body and use a living stick as his meat suit. But he doesn't do that because it's weird to share codes with someone (It feels icky for N00GA1, it's almost like he's touching a human organ when he does that, it's weird, and oddly disgusting for someone like N00GA1 who doesn't care about gore).

He is essentially an omnipotent being in the internet and the outernet. However, if he's in the human world, he's basically as defenseless as a rat, unless the human world is technologically advanced, which it isn't. So, we could definitely see N00GA1 power tripping sometimes, but of course, we can thank DJ for reigning him in.

THE OTHER CAST?

In this AU, the other hollowheads have a different creator, Alex, who underwent a similar narrative arc as the canonical Alan but continued to mistreat his creations. Eventually, Second and the CG manage to break free and journey towards the outernet, where they cross paths with Dark and Chosen.

And idk maybe they become some kind of weird knit of family.

Chosen was still targeted by Victim and was taken into "the box" for interrogation. It was during this time that Chosen discovered Victim had also endured similar experiences to himself and his brothers. This realization led Chosen to agree to reveal Alex's location to Victim and was willing to even help the gray stick for his "revenge"

And there they adopt Victim (whether he likes it or not XDDD)

HOW DO THEY MEET NOOGAI AND DJ?

They encounter DJ, who has been living as a hermit, concealing his identity to avoid being recognized as a hollowhead. And had mistakenly believing DJ to be one of Alex's creations (though in reality DJ was actually just some random doodle on a random Monday made by some bored kid)

DJ is somewhat familiar with Dark and Chosen, as terrorists, and Victim as a CEO from Rocket Corp. He simply nods in agreement, fearing for his life. And they try their best to take DJ in (that they believe is probably one of Alex's oldest work, before Victim was even created), who tries to evade them at every second.

And N00GA1 doesn't know this because he's always cooped up in DJ's lab, lazing around or just watching Youtube.

THE OTHER CAST, WILL THEY APPEAR?

Maybe, it's possible...

RANDOM: NOOGAI'S DESIGN....WHY SUNGLASSES AND NOT THE NORMAL GLASSES?

DJ essentially forgot to give N00GA1 eyes, leaving them blank until he discovered that gazing into N00GA1's eyes allowed him to see his own code, a sight that made him sick for an entire month.

During this period, N00GA1 took care of him. DJ then made N00GA1 wear sunglasses because apparently it was deemed harmful for sticks to see their own code, because apparently

And...story goes on from there :DDD

If ya'll like this, we will definitely make their designs :)))

Interesting or not? :000

THE CHARACTER DESIGNS IS STILL UNDER WORK, THIS IS ESSENTIALLY JUST A SKETCH OF NOOGAI AND A NOT SO WELL WRITTEN IDEA OF SPONGEY.

[saintsenara]

Are Lily and Petunia working class? I feel like they’re coded more like lower middle, with parents who are very class conscious in the way that people who’ve only relatively recently inched their way into respectability can be - Lily and Petunia both have classist insults on the tip of their tongue when they’re done with Snape and that had to be a deliberate invocation of the attitudes inside the Evan’s’ home considering they’ve got basically no other personality traits in common - and who hope their daughters marry up, which they both do. They don’t really seem as kids to speak or act in the way that the few unambiguously working class characters in the books do. She can’t be raised middle middle, because she’s far too obsessed with the performance of it once married to be comfortable that status won’t be taken from her, but her dad was like…a bank clerk. Or a council worker. Not a lawyer, but not a working class factory guy or tradesman either. Cokeworth reads to me as split by the river, with Snape’s condemned Victorian slums in the shadow of the mill and then Lily and Petunia over a bridge in the nicer part of town on one of those endless 1930s estates with a gated playground that are all over the country. Sometimes it’s hard not to read an uncomfortably condescending undertone into JKR’s words about Lily’s goodness that a key part of that goodness in the author’s eyes was her ability to overlook the class disparity with Snape. Would love to hear your thoughts on this because you usually spot much more going on in the text than I do!

(also, what working class family names their first child Petunia???)

so, i certainly think this is a fair reading, anon - which definitely works with snape and petunia and lily's canonical... vibe.

i just prefer the class divergence between the snapes and the evanses to be smaller in real terms - and, therefore, more profound in imagined ones.

by which i mean that i like the tension between the two families to be intra-working-class beef between a "respectable", "aspirational" working-class family and the feckless delinquents it considers beneath them.

this is because it always strikes me that so much about petunia's relationship with snape is based in her fear of the mirror he holds up to her, and the inadequacies she's terrified it will reveal. the main one of these - obviously - is that snape's continued existence reminds her of her desire to be magical [and shocking, bohemian, unconventional etc.], but i also think that snape works well as someone who reminds her that all the affectations of middle-class respectability she puts on are mere fiction. she's just a working-class lass from cokeworth, no better than he is...

[which offers an explanation for her terror as an adult that her solidly middle-class lifestyle will be snatched away from her - this fear is connected specifically to harry's magic; magic is what took lily away from her; lily was introduced to magic by snape. she has escaped him by ascending into the middle-classes, but the frightening, corrupting influence he represents - which threatens to unmask who she really is and where she really comes from - stalks her still...]

i certainly agree that her and lily's parents would be incredibly class-conscious, but i see it as the adult evanses looking to receive recognition which would allow them to distinguish themselves from the lower orders in a way which might help them advance in terms of class status, rather than allowing them to retain a previous ascension up the greasy pole.

and this will obviously have involved the demonisation of members of the working-classes they believe to be letting the side down - petunia clearly being desperate to call snape whatever the seventies version of a "chav" was during their first meeting can definitely be read as having that "it's people like you that give people like me a bad name" flair. and i think that's more potent - and would bother petunia a lot more - if it's something she thinks from within the same social class as snape, rather than [however tenuously] from a bracket above him.

the evanses house and mr evans' job would absolutely play into this intra-class divide. i agree that they probably lived on a housing estate built between the 1930s and 1950s - but i think it's also entirely possible that the estate they live on was council housing. the housing division in cokeworth might be a smaller-scale version of that seen in other post-industrial cities in the north-west, such as liverpool and manchester - policies intended to move families out of unfit victorian stock into new-builds, which came with things like indoor toilets and central heating.

[in reality, these policies rehoused a lucky few in nicer estates within their original communities, displacing many onto estates miles away from where they'd started and leaving others stuck in condemned slum housing.]

i think it's worth noting that - while the perception of someone who lives in council housing has become exceptionally negative since the 1980s, in the 60s it was still considered perfectly respectable to live in council housing which might have looked like this:

[none of which, i imagine, are still in use as council stock...]

certainly, it was considered infinitely more respectable than living in the slums.

the sorts of council tenants who would end up in these houses often had a reputation for their own version of "keeping up appearances" - tidy gardens, community interaction, not behaving in "rough" ways - which is very similar to how this is performed by the middle-classes, but which still has a distinctly working-class flavour - particularly when it comes to the perception of jobs, education, and what one receives from the state.

mr evans could, for example, have a trade and still think of himself [and expect to be perceived in society] as meaningfully more sophisticated than a low-skilled and frequently-unemployed mill-worker, like tobias snape - especially if he was something like a plumber, electrician, or gas-fitter. this would be the case even though both of these jobs can be described as "blue collar".

and i like these really minor distinctions because they play up just how petty the performance of class is in britain - but they also reveal just how thorny and multi-layered it is at the same time. this really vibes with how i see petunia: petty and competitive and obsessed with rules which people outside of her class bracket don't care about [i.e. how marge doesn't give a fuck about the prim middle-class manners the adult petunia will come to pride herself on] and worried about the fragility of her position and very much faking it until she makes it - and also complex and multi-layered and inextricable from the long and complicated history of social class in the twentieth century.

two final points: on the names, i basically think that the fact she's called petunia is a little wink to the camera for the mams and dads in 1997 reading the books at home with their children - "petunia dursley" is absolutely intended to remind you of "hyacinth bucket", the social-climbing protagonist of the bbc sitcom keeping up appearances. that character was also a working-class lass who ascended to the middle, and who went to extraordinary lengths to keep that hidden from the upper-middle-class circles she was desperate to access...

and the main thing which i think "others" the snapes? religion. i am wedded to the idea of tobias as a catholic of northern irish extraction - which would have been accompanied by all sorts of stereotypes about fecklessness [drunkenness, having too many children who can't be paid for, violence] which, when compounded by him living in a slum and being unemployed, would have turned him into someone the evanses would have seen it as entirely appropriate to define themselves against even if they nominally shared a social class.

this would only have got worse as the 1970s began...

[alexandraisyes]

Eclipse Character Analysis (Sun and Moon Show)

Alternate Title: Why I'm 95% sure Eclipse is a sociopath EDITED TITLE: An Analysis of how Eclipse's ASPD is reflected in his character

A hopefully unnecessary disclaimer: - One, hi, hello I am a sociopath, I do know what I'm talking about. This also means that a lot of what I notice and will describe about Eclipse are similar or the same as my own experiences living life in this mortal realm. What I will touch on in the "redemption" section is heavily based on the kind of intensive treatment I had to get in order to improve my behavior when I was younger, so it's important to note that while Eclipse will never be able to change his personality (like how I can't change mine, and you can't change yours), he can change his thought patterns, mentality, and behavior. The saying that "sociopaths can't change" is specifically talking about how we can't change our personality, which is true for everyone. That doesn't mean we can't learn to function better in civilized society or be taught emotional awareness and morals. - Two, hi, hello this is just what I've noticed and does not mean it's canon unless Reed or Davis themselves come onto my Tumblr and go "Yes, this, this is what is correct", and even then, you're allowed to have your own opinions and views on these characters. I'm just theorizing here EDIT: Reed and Davis confirmed that Eclipse is indeed a sociopath a day after I posted this here, and a week after my initial post in their server that is basically this but slightly messier. - Three, hi, hello I'm also a psychology student so I also know what I'm talking about in that regard too. I've been studying psychology and general medicine for three and a half years now, so I like to think I have some idea of what I'm talking about - Four, I use the terms sociopath, ASPD, sociopathic disorder, and anti-social personality disorder interchangeably since they all describe the same personality disorder - Five, this analysis is long, I cover the basics, an in depth, some potential scenarios, a redemption arc possibility, and some other thoughts I have about him. - Six, I made this disclaimer to address any potential misunderstandings, or harmful stereotypes that I tend to be confronted with any time I talk about ASPD. Now onto the good stuff!

Too Long; Won't Read - Here's a Summary

Attachment and Pride: Eclipse initially cared about Lunar, and his reaction to Lunar leaving suggests a fragile pride. His inability to connect with others is evident in his strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon.

Masking Emotions: Eclipse keeps his darker thoughts to himself at the beginning, and throughout the show as well. He masks both his emotions, and his intentions throughout the show, and is careful not to show when people have upset or offended him. This behavior stems from a learned experience that letting his guard down leads to resentment.

Manipulation and Brash Communication: Eclipse is straightforward and brash when expressing thoughts, feelings, or opinions. He employs manipulation when needed but is mostly disinterested in others.

Boredom and Stimulation: He seeks reactions from people, often causing chaos for entertainment. Boredom, especially when stuck as an AI, prompts him to instigate situations for amusement.

Lack of Empathy: He also appears to lack empathy, as evidenced by his inability to understand emotions and his focus on getting reactions rather than connecting with others.

Touch Aversion: Eclipse's lack of physical affection aligns with the common aversion to touch seen in individuals with ASPD.

Remorse and Growth: Eclipse shows remorse only in instances where he hurts Lunar in the beginning of the show, indicating a potential area for growth. A redemption arc could explore his struggles without completely erasing his apparent sociopathic nature.

Writer's note: A thoughtful portrayal of Eclipse's sociopathy, should my theory touch on the truth, if continued in a storyline, could provide an authentic exploration of mental health challenges and personal growth. Care should be taken to avoid stereotypes (DON'T USE GOOGLE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THIS I BEG)

Putting Him Under a Microscope - Full Analysis

1. Attachment and Pride:

Eclipse's initial connection with Lunar suggests a potential attachment, a notable aspect in individuals with ASPD who can form (highly) selective bonds. However, Lunar's departure significantly impacts Eclipse's pride. This reaction aligns with the fragile self-esteem often observed in those with ASPD. The departure becomes a perceived personal betrayal, triggering Eclipse's defensive response.

In individuals with ASPD, relationships often serve specific purposes, and Eclipse's attachment to Lunar may have been driven by a combination of genuine connection but also very clearly the utility Lunar provided in fulfilling certain needs or desires. (Which was helping Eclipse get the star of course)

Moreover, Eclipse's struggle with connecting to others, evident in strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon, is a characteristic of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often face challenges in forming and maintaining meaningful relationships due to their limited capacity for empathy and understanding of emotional nuances.

2. Masking Emotions:

Eclipse's tendency to keep darker thoughts to himself reflects a common coping mechanism associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often learn to conceal their true emotions early on due to negative experiences when expressing genuine feelings. This learned behavior serves as a protective measure against potential backlash or social rejection.

The fear of vulnerability and subsequent consequences aligns with the interpersonal difficulties faced by those with ASPD. Eclipse's decision to hide his less socially acceptable thoughts is a strategic choice aimed at avoiding conflict and maintaining control over his image.

Professionally, the concealment of darker thoughts is recognized as a defense mechanism in individuals with ASPD. This protective facade, or 'mask,' becomes an integral part of their social interactions, allowing them to navigate social situations with greater ease. However, this constant need to mask one's true feelings can contribute to internal struggles and further isolate individuals with ASPD from genuine emotional connections.

One may ask, what 'darker thoughts' did Eclipse show, or receive backlash for? Well, let's see, when he was stuck in Sun for the beginning of his life, he was first confused, a bit scared, and completely disoriented. He was forgotten, and during the first parts we can see him trying to reconnect with Moon, however, his delivery, as individuals with ASPD tend to do, was brash. It didn't sugar coat what he wanted, and considering his earlier transgressions previously, they weren't taken well in the slightest. Instead of Moon trying to genuinely talk and explain, all he provided Eclipse with was "I changed, and you didn't." and in general was very annoyed and irate with Eclipse. There were several times during the beginning of Eclipse, where there could have been progress made with him, to help him work through his issues, his internalized fear of being forgotten again, and the accidental neglect, that just… didn't happen. Because Sun and Moon saw him as a virus.

Moon because Moon saw himself as a virus, so what else would he think of something that originated in his code, and acted like he used to? Acted like he still sometimes did, parts of himself that he didn't like about himself, living and breathing once again in the mind of his brother. Corrupting him.

And of course, Sun because he was just so tired and hurt and he finally thought he could have something only for this ball of code to make itself known? This peice of his brother that was left behind, that was formed from Moon's killcode? That was constructed from Moon's literal need to lash out, hurt others, and kill. I'm honestly a little horrified that this is never touched on in the show, because people aren't just born to be awful, that's not how this works. There were so many opportunities where toxic and awful behavior could have been stopped if it was handled properly.

Of course, I'm not blaming Sun and Moon. It's hard to help someone who doesn't understand they need help, and as a result the person won't want help either. Plus, they've said it themselves in the episodes where Lunar had returned from the dead. They were never programmed to understand mental health issues, and they have a hard enough time grasping the concepts of their own mental health issues to deal with other peoples. Especially other people who are actively hurting them, it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who causes you harm as far as I'm aware. (I personally wouldn't know)

But back to my main point, there absolutely were times in the beginning where Eclipse was just honest about his wants and desires, and was shown disgust and hatred for it. Which would absolutely make him be prone to masking, which he does a lot in the show from what I can tell.

3. Manipulation and Brash Communication:

Eclipse's communication style, characterized by being brash and straightforward, aligns with the speech patterns and tendencies often associated with ASPD. When he's not trying to pull a fast one over someone, he's very blunt, and he doesn't beat around the bush. Individuals with this disorder may utilize manipulation as a means to achieve personal goals or navigate social situations, but without a reason to sugar coat, they won't. Although sometimes not sugar coating is also employed as a manipulation tactic, which makes it tricky navigating conversation at times with sociopaths. Eclipse's lack of hesitation in employing manipulation reflects the calculated nature of his interactions, as we see him smoothly switch between fronts, acts he puts on to get people to agree with him.

His disinterest in others, apart from exploiting them for personal gain, is consistent with the self-serving behaviors commonly observed in sociopaths. The use of manipulation as a tool for control and amusement is a manifestation of the disorder's impact on interpersonal dynamics. When he contacts Moon for help with Killcode, even then he has his own motives that are only helped by Moon being distracted with Killcode, as well as having KC out of the picture.

Professionally, manipulation is recognized as a prominent feature of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may lack the ability to form genuine emotional connections and, instead, view relationships as transactional opportunities. Eclipse's interactions, particularly with Sun and Moon, exemplify this transactional approach, where he derives amusement from creating chaos. This last bit (amusment) is important, and I'll cover it next.

Before I pop on over, this is where I'd like to touch on Servant Eclipse. He is very crafty, and very manipulative, but it doesn't fool Lunar, who he clearly cares about to some degree. (Again, will say it as many times as needed, people with ASPD can care about people, it's just a lot of effort at first, doesn't come naturally, and is reserved for a select few). Lunar in this reality probably knows Eclipse inside and out, and isn't fooled by the not very convincing "I'm just a husk now" act Eclipse is playing out with. I suspect that Eclipse also is aware the Lunar isn't fooled, but it amuses him to some degree to keep up the game. I can only imagine serving a "Lord Lunar" is a fairly excitable life, and it's unlikely he's extensively bored. He's also just as brash as the OG Eclipse, and doesn't sugar coat the truth, or tries to ease Gregory into topics.

4. Boredom and Stimulation:

Eclipse's constant quest for stimulation and amusement, even at the expense of creating chaos, reflects a key characteristic of individuals with ASPD. Boredom intolerance is common in this population, leading to a perpetual need for excitement and novel experiences. (Can speak from experience, I spend about 4-6 hours every day bored out of my freaking mind and it's absolutely torture - which is why I draw so much)

The portrayal of Eclipse as being "bored out of his mind" when stuck as an AI in KC's base underscores the challenge individuals with ASPD face in mundane or monotonous situations. The need for stimulation is a driving force behind their impulsive and sometimes risky behaviors. There's a certain kind of restlessness, and impulsivity associated with ASPD, very much an act before you think, get defensive when confronted, and maybe think about it two days later on the very small chance it triggers a sense of morals/remorse. (Then probably forget it happened, cause we are very good at not caring enough to remember half the stuff we do. This isn't a choice, by the way, people with sociopathic disorder just aren't wired to feel strong emotions like guilt and shame.)

Professionally, this behavior aligns with the clinical understanding of ASPD. Individuals with the disorder often engage in sensation-seeking activities to counteract feelings of boredom and emotional emptiness. Eclipse's enjoyment in hacking Moon's computer, causing reactions from Moon and Lunar, serves as an outlet for his need for stimulation and disruption, as well as fulfills other purposes in starting a conversation with Moon about KC.

And of course, now I get to touch on my two favorite things that just drill this in. When OG Eclipse gets the star… what does he do? He torments Sun and Moon instead of wiping everything away, and I'm aware this is mostly because he doens't have mastery over the star. But what does Sun say, when Eclipse shows up to torment them on top of the play structure. Something along the lines of, You're just bored at this point? Is that it?

And what does Eclipse do? He leaves. Because Sun is absolutely right, and it probably stings his ego to have someone he so fully has convinced himself of hating to be right about him. Even before he gets the star… just how much effort did he really put into getting the star? Sure, he had this big plan, but I think he was aware that the 'perfect world' would never make him happy to start with; he just felt the need to be something larger than life, so of course you must set the largest goals to achieve in order to be that. He could have gotten the star so much faster lets be honest. I fully believe he was just having too much fun messing with Sun and Moon, because it gave a reaction, and the reactions to his actions were exciting, breaking his boredom. He was bored a lot, stuck in Sun's head, stuck in Sun's body and pretending to be Sun, stuck as an AI, stuck with Solar Flare's AI fighting him, stuck being unable to use the star…….. seeing a pattern yet?

And of course, my second favorite thing. Lord Eclipse. Moon full out calls him out on how bored Eclipse is, and Eclipse first tries to deny it, then sees no tactical advantage to denying it, and admits that yeah, he is bored. He's been bored for ages and Moon is the first exciting thing in what feels like forever. He's not happy in his perfect world, but he isn't going to change is because that would cut his pride for Sun and Moon to be right about what he wants and needs after so many years. So many years of his Moon being dead. Of having Sun as an obedient servant, bound to his beck and call. He's bored, and it shows, and he knows that it shows.

5. Lack of Empathy:

Eclipse's consistent inability to understand and empathize with the emotions of others aligns with a central feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). Individuals with ASPD often struggle with recognizing and comprehending the feelings of those around them.

His focus on getting reactions rather than forming genuine connections reflects the hallmark trait of lacking empathy. Eclipse's interactions with Sun, Moon, and Lunar highlight his detached and indifferent approach, as he manipulates situations purely for personal amusement without regard for the emotional impact on others.

Professionally, the deficit in empathy is a well-documented aspect of ASPD. Those with the disorder may comprehend others' situations on a cognitive level but struggle to grasp the emotional nuances involved. Eclipse's inability to understand why Lunar is upset and his constant pursuit of reactions underscore the emotional disconnect inherent in individuals with ASPD.

Eclipse's interactions with Lunar provide a poignant illustration of his consistent lack of empathy. Despite a seemingly genuine attachment to Lunar in the beginning, Eclipse's emotional disconnect becomes evident as Lunar leaves. The impact of Lunar's departure on Eclipse's pride and subsequent defensive reaction highlights the absence of genuine understanding of Lunar's emotions. Eclipse struggles to comprehend the significance of Lunar's departure beyond a perceived personal betrayal, showcasing a lack of empathy toward Lunar's perspective.

Moreover, Eclipse's manipulation and attempts to provoke reactions from Lunar, even after Lunar has left, underscore his disregard for the emotional toll on Lunar. This behavior aligns with the typical patterns seen in individuals with ASPD, where the pursuit of personal amusement takes precedence over the emotional well-being of others.

Eclipse's inability to process and acknowledge his own damaged ego resulting from Lunar's departure further emphasizes his lack of emothional understanding. He doesn't want to admit that Lunar hurt him, so instead he just continues to shut it down, bottle it up, and let it churn into hatred instead of looking at what he did wrong. His resentment and refusal to acknowledge the emotional impact on Lunar highlight the emotional blindness inherent in individuals with ASPD, especially in the context of complex interpersonal relationships.

6. Touch Aversion:

Eclipse's noticeable lack of physical affection, as both seen throughout the show, and mentioned when Lunar clings to Sun and states that Eclipse never showed him physical affection, aligns with a common trait among individuals with ASPD. Touch aversion is a characteristic feature, as those with the disorder often lack the intrinsic desire for physical closeness or intimacy.

Eclipse's minimal physical interaction, even in what could be perceived as emotionally charged moments, is consistent with the general pattern observed in individuals with ASPD. The absence of hugging or comforting gestures suggests a limited appreciation for the emotional needs of others.

Professionally, touch aversion is recognized as part of the interpersonal challenges associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may not instinctively seek physical connection unless it serves a specific purpose, such as manipulation or personal gain. Eclipse's avoidance of physical affection adds a layer to his character, illustrating how his interpersonal behaviors align with the clinical understanding of ASPD.

This aspect of Eclipse's character contributes to a nuanced portrayal of the disorder, showcasing how the lack of tactile expression can impact the dynamics of his relationships, particularly in situations where emotional support is expected. (Like seriously, even Sun and Moon hug when one of them are having an awful day, but Eclipse? He literally doesn't seem to understand why Lunar craves positive physical touch so bad, because he just… doesn't feel the need himself. You can never fully understand something you experience, and it's not like people were explaining these basic needs and wants to Eclipse… ever.)

7. Remorse and Growth:

Eclipse's occasional display of remorse, particularly in instances where he has harmed Lunar, offers a glimpse into a facet of his character that deviates from the (BAD DOWNRIGHT AWFUL) stereotypical image associated with ASPD. While individuals with ASPD are often poorly and harmfully characterized/stereotyped by a complete lack of guilt or remorse, Eclipse's moments of internal conflict suggest a degree of emotional complexity.

Professionally, the intermittent remorse aligns with the recognition that individuals with ASPD may experience moments of internal conflict, especially in relationships that hold personal significance. Eclipse's struggle with whether to apologize after hitting Lunar reveals a brief internal debate, questioning the severity of his actions against Lunar's emotional response.

However, Eclipse's ultimate decision not to apologize, driven by his failure to perceive the significance of Lunar's distress, reinforces the inherent challenges in navigating emotional landscapes for those with ASPD. This internal conflict and eventual dismissal of remorse contribute to a more realistic portrayal of the disorder, highlighting the ongoing tension between impulsive actions and moments of potential introspection.

Should Eclipse undergo a redemption arc, these moments of internal conflict could serve as a foundation for growth, illustrating that while individuals with ASPD may grapple with moments of remorse, their ability to sustain lasting change remains a complex and challenging journey. Of course, I'm going to cover this as well.

Redemption and Recovery

Eclipse's potential redemption could be approached with an understanding that a complete overhaul of his personality is near impossible, because as psychology has shown, you don't just change your personality. However, nuanced growth and positive change within the framework of his behaviors and thought patterns can be explored.

Increased Self-Awareness: Eclipse could undergo a process of heightened self-awareness, acknowledging the impact of his actions on others. This could involve introspection into the motivations behind his behaviors and the consequences they entail. This won't be something he does on his own, he's going to need someone behind him, pushing him to be better. Preferably someone who has no majorly poor history with him for the best results.

Therapeutic Support: In a realistic redemption arc, Eclipse might engage in therapy tailored to individuals with ASPD. This could involve developing coping mechanisms, enhancing emotional intelligence, and learning healthier ways to navigate interpersonal relationships. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a very affective type of therapy for people with personality disorders, or collections of disorders that combined provide the complications of a personality disorder.

Recognizing the Value of Relationships: Eclipse could gradually come to recognize the value of genuine connections beyond their utility. This may involve acknowledging the significance of relationships for emotional support and personal growth. This is going to be a process, and he will mess up. He will forget. It's something he will have to choose to work with in order for it to work, and even then he will make mistakes. It will be important to have patience with him, and instead of lashing out (cause that can cause a spiral back into poor behavior), working on these slip ups with him, and helping him relearn the significance of correcting it when he messes up.

Empathy Development: A full restoration of empathy is be unrealistic, Eclipse could work on developing cognitive empathy—understanding others' perspectives intellectually, even if not emotionally. This could improve his ability to navigate social situations more effectively. (This is what I do! <:happy_stim:867544047735275521>)

Establishing Boundaries: He should learn to set healthy boundaries in his relationships, understanding that manipulating and exploiting others for personal gain may provide short-term satisfaction but is detrimental in the long run.

Contributing Positively: As part of his redemption, he could find avenues to contribute positively to others' lives. This could involve utilizing his unique skills for constructive purposes, fostering a sense of accomplishment outside of manipulative endeavors.

Maintaining Accountability: Eclipse's growth would involve a commitment to being accountable for his actions. This includes acknowledging mistakes, making amends where possible, and actively working towards minimizing harm to others.

Embracing Personal Growth: Eclipse's redemption arc could focus on embracing personal growth within the constraints of his personality. It's about acknowledging that while he may not fundamentally change, he can adapt and evolve to lead a more balanced and fulfilling life.

Potential Future Scenario: Eclipse Apologizes

Brought to you by someone saying that Lunar would refuse Eclipse trying to apologize, but I respectfully disagree, and here's why.

I think that if Eclipse ever does apologize to Lunar, Lunar would have literally no choice but to accept, because we’ve seen early on that he does not apologize

To genuinely apologize and acknowledge his wrongdoing would be major character development that would take a lot of time and struggle to get to that point, based on my theories/analysis about him

So by the time he can actually, truthfully apologize, there would be evidence to prove his struggle with his own twisted nature, and probably how he failed at times during the journey, and had set backs and road bumps. The others would have most likely seen the effects and effort it takes to learn to change for him, and would most likely acknowledge that he’s being truthful.

If Lunar doesn’t accept at that point, if it ever got to that point, Lunar would be acting irrationally due to emotional complications, would probably just hurt Eclipse when he’s trying to be better for his brother, and would most likely set him back. There’s a very destructive pattern of thought when it comes to personality stuff (which is what I think Eclipse struggles with, a specific personality disorder I’m writing a comic thingy about), because you can’t change your personality. You can’t will yourself to be a certain way, and so it’s very easy to destroy progress people make on self improvement. So lunar refusing the apology would most likely not only hurt Eclipse’s pride (like it was hurt when Lunar left his side the first time) but would also further his belief of “why bother if they won’t accept the fact I’m trying for them” that he’d probably struggle with throughout a period of character growth.

Lunar’s smart, and pretty emotionally aware. He can be petty, but if Eclipse were to get to that point, I don’t think Lunar would refuse it because he would have already seen the struggle and effort Eclipse had put through just to get to that point

Logically, Solar would be the best person to help Eclipse, not Earth

This is partly copied/pasted from some conversations and does analyze Solar a bit as well

I really honestly doubt that Earth is going to be able to help him, if he comes back, and I’m suspecting that Solar would do a better job because he’s the only who can understand, properly, the absolute hell that was waking up inside of Sun’s mind with no idea what’s going on and how he got there. Earth can be sympathetic and show him pity, but that’s not going to help him very much at the end of the day. He doesn’t want sympathy, he doesn’t want pity because he has associated that with being weak and out of control. He needs some one who will understand him, and who will fully understand how one small thing changed so much due to the snow ball effect. Which Solar would understand. He’s “nice eclipse” after all, aka just an Eclipse without such bad formative trauma. So he never spiraled, but he’s just as blunt and analytical as Eclipse tends to be, and would be able to actually communicate with Eclipse about his issues since it’s a situation he could have easily been in had things gone slightly different

Solar is probably the only one who can understand, and I mean properly understand, Eclipse’s trauma and bottled up emotions. And I think that if they’re going to give Eclipse someone who will support him, they should do Solar. He’s got all boxes checked

The ability to fully understand Eclipse

No bad history with Eclipse that would really affect how Eclipse treats him (It’s not like Eclipse knows he built the satellite)

Similar base personality, his just wanted warped and twisted in the start, but if you strip away Eclipse’s issues, they’re practically the same person… for obvious reasons

The willingness to say what needs to be said, and not try to sugar coat. Earth would try to let Eclipse down easy about stuff, ease him into it, and he’s gonna see that as her being manipulative because that’s how he manipulates people. He needs someone who is just going to lay things out on the table

And of course, Solar most likely wouldn’t think Eclipse is too far gone to change. Because how do you think that of yourself? And they are the same person, just from different perspectives. It’s a similar dilemma I have to just writing off Eclipse, when I take him apart and see myself staring back at me. But I was able to improve, it just took work, and it took a situation dire enough to get me to realize that if I didn’t want to ruin the few things I cared about, I needed to get my crap together. And that’s probably what he’s gonna need to, something that threatens what he cares about to the point he realizes that this can’t go on. (And I’m suspecting that something will be control over his own life, just like it was for me.) We saw at the end of his life, that he was starting to self reflect and realize that he needs to change somehow, and this was because his control over his own life was being threatened I suspect.

Extra, Smaller Analysis on Solar and Eclipse

It is important to note that Solar doesn't have this issue (ASPD), and I believe it's because he didn't suffer the same beginning that Eclipse did. They resolved the Solar issue when he popped into existance very quickly from what we can tell, and so he wasn't left in the dark for months on end, left to stew in his own agony and emotions. Personality issues are caused by trauma, and specifically ASPD is directly tied to neglect during the most crucial formative stages in development. Sun and Moon had no idea Eclipse was there, and didn't mean to abandon him, because they didn't know he existed. But this complete, and utter abandoment, what is probably internalized as a personal betrayal because I can imagine Eclipse being destroyed by the idea that Moon left him behind on purpose. Which is just… not a good thought for my man to have, because that leads to feelings of worthlessness, and self-hatred for not being 'good enough' to keep/take care of/help. Which then just snowballs into other negative emotions, that gets him all worked up, and then he's fuming at the fact that they left him. That they decided he wasn't worth keeping around, and how dare they make that decision about him for him?!

You can see how it gets out of hand quickly, as he realizes the neglect he's suffering from, the abandonment he's facing, and the fact that he's now trapped. That Moon got to escape, but he can't and it's not fair. This is the perfect breeding ground for that funny little disorder called sociopathy, and boy, there's almost nothing at this point that can convince me that he doesn't have it because it's all just a little too perfect. And the worst part?

I really really doubt it was done on purpose, but holy heck it would be so cool if it was. Not just because of how beautifully crafted it is in his character, how it's so consistent and real, but also because if it was done on purpose, it would show that the writers took the time to do real research about a disorder that is so often done so poorly, and is commonly confused with a completely different issue (psychopathic disorder). Even knowing that it probably wasn't done on purpose, I'm still gonna just cling to him because I love him and I want him to get the happy ending he deserves. And I mean that genuinely, people who are suffering and lashing out because they're drowing in hate due to unfortunate circumstances that were really out of their control deserve to be given the tools to improve themselves and their lives, and it would be wonderful to see this sentiment reflected in the show.

Wrap-Up Ramble/Writer's Notes

This is, of course, my own personal observations, and it is definitely a lot to read. I had a lot of fun constructing this thread, because it is so rare to find a character that I feel I can properly connect to. I've struggled with a lot of the patterns Eclipse has shown in the show that I've called out, and I've had to go through the steps in the 'redemption arc' section myself. It's not an easy process, and as I mentioned, him realistically improving is going to be a process that is going to be draining on himself, and the people around him. He will have to wake up and choose to go against the walls he's thrown up around himself every single day if he's going to have a realistic redemption, and it's going to be exhausting. But I do genuinely believe that he can change, and improve, because I was able to change and improve as a person. It took time, years of intensive self examination and cognitive based therapy, and it required a strong support system. Which hopefully, if he comes back to the show, he can obtain, because otherwise he will continue to drown in his own bitter stew of resentment for others and himself. And that's no fun, that's just depressing.

A lot of people look at Eclipse and think the villain, but I just can't. His actions make him a bad person, but taking apart the psychology behind him, and seeing how glaringly similar a character is to you that is supposed to be the 'bad guy'… I want him to be able, if he comes back, to get the proper 'recovery arc' that he deserves, and I really hope that if they do try to save him from his own demons, they do it properly, instead of giving him a complete 180. Because you can't change your personality, and Davis and Reed seem to be aware of that with Moon. Even when old Moon tried to be better, he was still an awful person. And the 'new' Moon is still eerily similar to the old one, and as the time goes on, he just becomes more and more like the old one. Because it's the same AI, he just lost his memories. He didn't do a whole personality change because he got his memory card wiped, because he's the same person where it counts. He just has the benefit of not having all of the pain his past self was carrying. He's free of the hurt, and trauma, and self hatred old Moon carried, but he's still Moon.

So I'm really hoping that they continue to accurately display psychology in their characters if they bring Eclipse back, because it is such an immersive show due to the fact that it makes sense. These things make sense psychology wise, their behaviors, actions, patterns of thinking and speech. And I really am looking forward to seeing if they bring Eclipse back because he's such a beautifully constructed character.

You Made It

This is the end of my massive post. Congratulations if you made it this far. If you did, uh, the password is Dorito. Leave it in the comments/reblogs to let me know you made it, haha.

I'd love to see people's thoughts on this and on him, so feel free to leave your thoughts as well in comments/reblogs. I'll try to reply to every single one I see. Again, I love his character so much, it's so well crafted, and it was so fun to take this apart.

Edit: I have been asked about where to find the thread/join in on the convo, etc a few times: I have a thread in the SAMS server here if you want to join the conversation

[lord-squiggletits]

An ask for hopefully fun distraction purposes: What are your favorite Megop dynamics to read about or play with when you write?

Since I'm an IDW MegOP enjoyer first and foremost, I really like fics that reverse the usual IDW MOP dynamic (Megatron goads, Optimus chases and reacts) and have Megatron be the one that has incredibly strong horny/obsessive feelings towards Optimus, while Optimus is the one that's more reserved and won't let Megatron get a taste of him until he feels the time is right aslkdlfjksd. I think, especially for IDW, it's easy to get caught up in how devoted Optimus is, in the way that Megatron is the center of Optimus' life both in terms of the war and in terms of making him the person he became, and that relentless belief in the best person Megatron can be. But I really, really like it when that dynamic is reversed: where Megatron is the one that's devoted to Optimus, seeks his attention, feels like he's an inseparable part of his life, etc. Compounded by the fact that the fandom as a whole tends to treat Optimus as a flat character and treats Megatron/whoever OP is being shipped with as more of an individual with depth, with OP just being a trophy husband basically

In general, it's really important for me to maintain their relationship with a push and pull dynamic and to be centered on mutual respect, whether that's through characterization, dialogue, or the usual PWP/kink dynamics. Especially when I get to play with it in the last case, fucking around with underappreciated things like dom bottom/submissive top, switching in general. I'm also a big fan (semi related to the first point) of emotionally constipated Optimus with Megatron being the emotional one trying to reach out. So like.... basically the opposite of what the most popular MOP dynamics are aksldfjlksdlkf

I haven't really written this outside of AEFMB (the BATB AU), but I think interactions between miner!Megatron and Prime!Optimus are suuuuper underrated. I know IDW MOP got canon Autobot Megatron + prewar Orion thanks to the Functionist Universe, but how come no one writes the other way around? It's so cool to imagine, especially since IDW is one of the rare continuities where Megatron began as the shy/unimposing/humble one and Orion/Optimus is a confident jock superhero who already has his own squad of outlaws (and, in the case of prewar M + wartime OP, a literal fucking army). Enough casting Megatron as the hardened/jaded veteran fighter with OP as the sheltered nerd. Give me some shit with OP being the more experienced one and M being the one who needs to come into his own to match him. (And yeah, TF One helped satisfy this urge lol)

Megatron being the Optimus apologist/going "I can fix him," whether it's good guy Megatron (a la MTMTE, Earthspark) supporting Optimus/not wanting him to go down a dark path, or whether it's evil Megatron going "I can corrupt him." Actually, MOP has WAY too little corruption arc action going on. I mean, I understand why, but what the hell is a hero/villain ETL ship without at least one moment where the villain goes "Join me, we would be unstoppable together, please we could basically be married and rule the universe." IDW MOP in particular doesn't have that pre-war friendship dynamic that would tempt M into giving such an offer to OP, but I like the idea of some scenario where M wants to offer anyways. Like I said in the first point, literally just give me a MOP story where Megatron is the one who's horny/desperate/longing for Optimus and Optimus is the skeptical, tsundere one that needs to be persuaded into it.

[thegamingcatmom]

Vampire!AU where Mother Miranda takes you as her bride.

...

That is all.

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JK-

Right so:

Miranda is obv. the Vampire Queen or whatever.

Alcina and her daughters are vampires too, obv.

So are the maids that were canonically experimented on. (Miranda gotta have some numbers.)

Since we got vampires in there, we also gotta have werewolves, right?

-> Enter Heisenberg and his lycans.

Sal is the butler (aka: The heart and soul of the house, bless him).

Donna is...a mystery.

"The Mold" is basically Miranda´s nest

Eva is alive and kicking.

And a vampire too.

She can be...scary.

Just like Momma.

The "vessel" operation is still going strong. However-

It´s her long deceased wife Miri´s trying to bring back.

Reincarnation style, if you will.

Uhhh, what else...OH-

The villagers are under some sort of vampiric mind control (aka the mold?) that allows Miranda and her coven to feed on them undisturbed.

-> Enter MC (aka The Disturbance).

aka: The bane and salvation of Miranda´s existence.

Miranda is hooked right away for obv. reasons (points to the aforementioned wife thing).

(Eva will be overjoyed to learn her Mama has returned.)

She must have MC.

Their wedding shall be a grand celebration for the whole village to see.

A celebration fit for royalty, as it should-

MC: "Uhhh...excuse me?"

Miranda: *gradually snaps out of her frenzied inner monologue to blink at MC with a mix of confusion and reverence*

MC: "I´m looking for a dude called Heisen...*checks her palm* ...bur-BERG. HeisenBERG. Do you know where I can find him, by chance?"

Miranda: *slow blinking*

MC: *slow blinking too*

Miranda: *remembers this is her soon-to-be bride*

Miranda: "Ah...forgive my...manners. *awkward smile cause being nice is indeed quite awkward, bride or not*...Heisenberg, you say? Why, yes...I am quite familiar with that...man."

Miranda: *fights back an instinctive hiss! cause werewolf*

...

MC: "...O-kay...? Can you tell me where I can find him, then?"

Miranda: *slow blinking*

MC: *slow blinking too*

Miranda, getting sus: "...And to what possible end, if I might ask?"

MC: *tf is that question*

MC, getting annoyed: "...Because I asked...?"

Miranda: *eye starts twitching as she fights back the urge to lash out at the sheer audacity-*

Miranda: *...soon.to.be.bride*

...

Miranda: "...Of course... *dark fake chuckle*...You shall find him in that factory of his. *points down the road* Follow this trail until it splits, then proceed to the right, where you will come across a large windmill. From there, it is rather impossible to miss."

Miranda, under her breath: "Unfortunately..."

MC, who is totally not weirded out by now: "...Okay...thanks. Uh...cya around?"

Miranda: *wedding bells*

Miranda: *satisfied smile starts spreading*

Miranda: "Hm...cya, indeed..."

MC: "..."

Miranda: "..."

MC: *slowly turns around and continues down the road*

Miranda: "...Little bat?"

MC: *stops in her tracks*

MC: *hesitantly turns around cause, despite being the only other person present besides Strange Lady, she still doubts whether that nickname was actually meant for her cause...whut?*

MC: "...Yes?"

Miranda: *satisfied smile becomes even more satisfied because her term of endearment has been accepted*

Miranda: *turns serious all of a sudden*

Miranda, doing her vampire compelling thing: "...Tell me."

MC, without hesitation: "He´s my uncle."

...

Miranda:

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.

This was supposed to be a sexy vampire thing and then it turned into reincarnation & vampires vs werewolves with MC in the middle of it all cause our girl might just be the only one capable of uniting their worlds and ending a war that has been raging for centuries.

(Could this war have anything to do with a certain someone dying at the hands of a certain someone else? Good question. 🤔)

And it all starts with a (rather questionable) marriage.

THAT IS ALL.

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This post was brought to you by The Invitation - a (rather poorly made) movie about vampires.

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EDIT:

NO BUT LISTEN-

Miranda going "I'll take what is due", just like she did in Resi Village? Except what is "due" is her wife, who died at the hands of one of the lycans? Or even Heisenberg himself??

Miranda going "I've waited so long for you..." when she meets MC, just like she did in Shadows of Rose when she met Rose??

THOUGHTS FEELS IDEAS 😭

(Dammit, I might actually have to write it now cause I am OBSESSED. 😩🤌)