#in conclusion - david for s5

[dandelionjack]

death and the queen is the one of best series 4 episodes that never was. well, it does exist in audio form, but it’s so well made that i could practically see david tennant’s sad wet eyes in my mind’s eye. peak doctordonna comedy, peak doctor loneliness and vulnerability moments, peak strange aliens and cool pseudo-historical pseudo-mythical setting… although i believe it may have worked even better with eleven and amy (s5 roryless, obviously — she wouldn’t marry a random prince if rory was around) considering the sacrificial bride theme, the emphasis on marriage equaling death, and the fairytale atmosphere in the kingdom-that-shouldn’t-be which is a major theme during amy’s arc… eh, we can’t have everything we want. on the plus side, it definitely wouldn’t have been as funny.

and the drama!! that goodbye donna was heart(s)shattering. ten making the same mistake that he did in the sontaran stratagem; believing that no matter how close he gets to his companions, he will always be their second choice and they’ll abandon him whenever they happen to inevitably fall in love with another human. he doesn’t even let her finish talking, just assumes it’s a goodbye. grumbling in a jokey tone about the universe never giving him a break, “a chance to lick his wounds, maybe a spa day but no, giant cloud of alien death… just one more thing, so many more things”. god.

also, despite being an audio (so-called inessential material) it slots really nicely into fourteen’s character development and later conclusion — the chance to wind down finally came, after all those years, in the form of a home with donna noble. married to a man she truly loves, no ulterior motives or murderous plots. living with her best friend and beautiful, talented daughter. she got to be 1700s royalty for a few months, crown and all, but the only real kingdom worth reigning over consists of people who care about you.

^ listen to this ^

[yannaryartside]

WE NEED 5 SEASONS

Okay I need to vent a little. Please indulge me

This is for this article that says the 5th season is up to Storer.

Storer said they filmed most of season 4, and some things still need to be filmed. So we will have s4 next summer, and we don't know if there will be a 5th one.

I could put my hand on fire to my belief that we will have 5 seasons. Mostly, because regardless of the importance of showing “being trapped in negative patterns” that was s3 for multiple characters, is not gonna be a satisfying conclusion if all those patterns are resolved in one season.

Realistically, i would not make sense.

Even if you think Claire is Carmy’s salvation, this graceful, perfect angel that came to serve Carmy’s redemption, and when they get together, everything will be fine (that narrative sucks ass, by the way, is perpetually insulting to everyone that had ever had a mental illness to suggest them they only need to fall on the hands of someone that ignores all their defects and are determined to please them). You could believe this is all about self-sabotage, and Carmy will wake up next season, apologize to Claire, save the restaurant by ex-maquina magic, and get his happy ending. Yeah, that will be 4 seasons of a conclusive story and an objectively terrible narrative. It is also very insulting to every person who has a romantic partner who struggles with addiction and/or mental illness to tell them they need to be this fairy tale of a person who is Claire to bring "peace" to their partner and basically solve their life. Fuck that. I refuse to believe they are doing that on purpose.

But if they put the “sleigh of hand” and Carmy has to realize that his emotional dependence on Claire is toxic and only contributed to his depression and disassociation, since you spent all S3 pulling him in that direction, making him believe that is what he wanted/needed, you are going to need a whole season for him even to “scape the illusion.” All of this will align with the Bear having to close, Syd potentially leaving, and starting dating Luca. So, S4 is going to be the “wake-up call.”

S5 should be the season of creating new patterns. Carmy will get into therapy. Syd will come back. The two will create new recipes and work on the menu (collaboration, vulnerability). They will realize they have true feelings for one another. Each character will move towards the place they are gonna end up with.

If you created a whole season about "being in the freeze response" and another two previous seasons of extending trauma and bad coping mechanisms, you are gonna need more than one season to fix that; mental wellness is not like that; it should be treated like something that requires more time combined with efforts.

Not to mention, if SydCarmy is indeed happening, you have spent 3 fucking seasons creating distance between them. I also feel like so much of Sydney's life (to her and to us) is trapped around Carmy's issues, and it actually would make more sense for her to realize being with Carmy is too taxing for her, regardless if she had the most realistic tools to actually help him to grow.

You also had not given Sydney a proper arc to grow from her insecurities and follow her dreams. She still seems to be as insecure of her own skills as when she came in, because Carmy insist on creating a menu based on his trauma. Regardless of his good intentions and the beauty of their connection, she will leave the "bear narrative" as if Carmy is the closest thing she had to a chef David, as if Carmy was the monster she needed to endure to "grow" or "decide better." Fuck that.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Is your chosen username anything to do with Ray Bradbury’s story by chance? If so, Mildly ironic given the current stete of fandom

It's not the primary reason for my URL (that would be the Simpsons), but yes, "A Sound of Thunder" and the butterfly effect are among the many reasons I love butterflies. I don't think it's ironic re the current state of fandom though, I've long noticed GRRM citing the butterfly effect to explain how a small adaptational difference can lead to great changes by the end, since 2011, and particularly since GOT S5 and S8. So it's not surprising GRRM cited it again re HOTD, it's one of his standards along with Scarlett O'Hara's kids. Heck, he cited both things in an interview (regarding the question of whether HOTD was "canon") only 2 years ago. By definition the butterfly effect is just a single wingbeat that eventually makes a hurricane, but for GRRM it's a drum he's never stopped beating.

So, regarding the butterfly effect in GOT... let's give some examples. One of the butterflies GRRM used to talk about was that in the show, Khal Drogo killed Mago (in the epsiode airing June 5, 2011) whereas in ADWD (released July 17, 2011), Dany is captured by the khalasar where Mago is a bloodrider, and GRRM has said he'll be a significant character in TWOW. How the show handled it... they basically replaced him with Khal Moro, and tbqh, due to GRRM's own flat characterization of the Dothraki, it's hard to tell if there will be any difference between one brutish thug threatening to rape Dany vs another brutish thug with a slightly different name. Maybe TWOW will surprise us there, but if so, I really will be surprised.

Another butterfly (mentioned in the Mago link above) was that in GOT, Marillion never went to the Eyrie, and instead went to KL and got detongued by Joffrey. Thus, Marillion never became Lysa's favorite, and his plot with Sansa in ASOS/AFFC never happened. So Petyr didn't have anyone to blame for Lysa's murder... and yet in the show, he really didn't need Marillion, he convinced the Lords of the Vale that Lysa committed suicide. However, this was done by Sansa revealing her true identity to them... which cut off the Alayne plotpoint altogether. And that leads to what GRRM might call the greater "toxic butterfly" of Jeyne Poole not being an actual character in the show (she appears for half a second at Winterfell and never again), and thus Sansa took her place in the Ramsay storyline. But to be frank, I don't believe Jeyne's absence had any real "butterfly effect" on the show... even if had she been an actual character and Sansa's companion that Littlefinger made into a prostitute at one of his brothels, D&D never would have brought her out again to play "Arya". David and Dan deleted the Alayne plotpoint and Sansa's AFFC/TWOW storyline, and instead sent Sansa north to be married and raped because that's what they wanted to do with her character, not because they "had to" because Jeyne wasn't there. (And if they ever told GRRM otherwise, they lied.)

And that's the truth about the "butterfly effect" straight up. GRRM seems to believe a story must flow logically to its conclusion and thus removing even a small element changes that conclusion. But the truth is that D&D could have done whatever they wanted, dead/nonexistent characters or otherwise. Aegon and JonCon not existing is not what made Dany a mad queen and burn KL, they chose to make her a mad queen because that's the story they wanted to write. The bizarre nonsense of the show Dorne storyline is not because they removed Arianne, but because they wanted to make Ellaria both vengeful and uncaring about her lover's family. Smalljon Umber surviving the Red Wedding is not why Osha and Rickon died, it's because they wanted to kill off Osha and Rickon and add another heartless Northern villain. Flow does not truly apply, this isn't an atmospheric system and it's not a real history. Nothing forced D&D into doing anything except budget/orders from above/other business issues. It's fiction, it's the story they constructed, they chose to construct it that way, because "Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen."

Now, regarding HOTD -- let me first provide a quote from GRRM from the "canon" interview I linked above:

George: And the more you read about history, the more inconsistencies you had. So I thought it would be fun to do that in Fire and Blood. And so when I’m relating what happened here, and I’m thinking about what can happen. Yeah, I… oh, this would be great. This would be really outrageous, it would be… and then, eh, it’s probably too outrageous. Here’s probably what… the more realistic version of it. And wait a minute, this version makes Fred the villain and Bill the hero. And this version makes Bill a villain and Fred the hero. And then at some point it hit me. Why don’t I give all versions? Cause history is uncertain. I’ll give all versions and it’ll be fun for me. I can put in all the really outlandish scurrilous things, the way Mushroom sees it, but I can also put in the things that are probably more…  Aziz: They’re sources, yeah.  George: And that worked fine for those who liked that thing, although some don’t. But if I was writing it as a novel, if I’d been writing this in the form of the books in A Song of Ice and Fire, like Winds of Winter, which I’m writing now. When I get to a chapter in The Winds of Winter and I know something’s gonna happen. How does it happen? What are the things? I think I could do it this way. I could do it that way. I have to make up up my mind. In Fire and Blood, I didn’t have to have to make up my mind, but Ryan and Miguel, when they’re adapting it, they largely had to make up their mind. 

So. In his (deleted) blog post, GRRM talks about the absence of Maelor being a butterfly, so that the Blood & Cheese scene didn't have Helaena choosing between two sons (only between a son and a daughter), and he thinks it's unlikely they'll have the Bitterbridge scene with the Kingsguard Rickard Thorne heroically trying to protect Maelor (who is torn to pieces by the crowd). GRRM said that this will affect Helaena once again, because Maelor's death is why she commits suicide in F&B and he says in the S3 outline Helaena does it for "no reason". Welp. First of all, it's kind of hilarious that the wiki immediately cited GRRM's blog post, because IDK if GRRM recalls that in F&B he gave multiple reasons for Helaena's suicide (several weeks after Maelor's death!) through the book's conceit of multiple historians:

because she learned she was pregnant after being gangraped in a brothel along with her mother per Mushroom's wild story of the "Brothel Queens" (though Gyldayn reasserts no part of Mushroom's story is credible)

because she watched two knights who had tried to rescue Corlys be hanged and this upset her, per Munkun (though Gyldayn thinks it's unlikely because she didn't know them)

because Mysaria told her that night that Maelor had died and how he died, per Septon Eustace (though Gyldayn says it's hard to understand what motive Mysaria would have had for doing so)

because she didn't actually commit suicide, she was pushed, because Rhaenyra ordered her murder (what the smallfolk believed, which per Mushroom was a rumor spread by Larys Strong, and note Gyldayn does not discredit him here)

So whatever reason they're choosing for Helaena's suicide in HOTD (I doubt it will remain "for no reason" between outline and script and broadcast), it may be hard to argue it's not textually based given the multiple choice options in the text. Plus, there's a possible reason in the book that is unmentioned by Gyldayn -- that only a short time before, Daemon had his murder-suicide battle with Aemond above the Gods Eye. Though it seems that the news of that battle didn't reach KL until a day after Helaena's suicide, book!Helaena was not a dreamer the way show!Helaena is. And the show has already drawn a connection between Helaena, Daemon, Aemond, the battle above the Gods Eye, and prophecies. So again, I very much doubt she will kill herself "for no reason" in the show. It may not be the same reason as in F&B, but there should be some reason.

But the fact that GRRM stated outright that the Maelor reason is the real one and therefore he's an important character who should not be butterflied away -- well, that blog post did what his book deliberately failed to do. GRRM wrote a book with so many multiple choice conflicting narratives, deliberately, because he didn't want to make up his mind, so in its adaptation the HOTD writing team chose to write a narrative that picks and chooses among them (and sometimes, yes, makes up new shit), because they did have to make up their mind (and not do a Rashomon framing device). And only now he's like "no that's wrong, there is a real true history there and I'm mad they're not doing it"? I'm sure it's frustrating to GRRM, but if it's a problem, it's been a problem since the very start!

I mean, I am deeply sympathetic to him being disappointed by an adaptation once again, especially if he thought being an executive producer would give him more power than GOT's co-executive producer status but again that was just an empty title with no power at all. And especially if he has been telling the HOTD writers truths the book didn't, only to be dismissed with something like "well you didn't say that in the book so we're doing it differently". And especially if he thought a particular scene was very fine writing and characterization, and is disappointed that the show is unlikely to broadcast it to a greater audience. Y'klnow... damn the NDAs, but someone really ought to get GRRM's opinion regarding Septon Meribald's broken men speech, frequently considered one of his best, and how they did something rather different in GOT... and lbr, the Rickard Thorne Bitterbridge scene was a nice bit of a knight actually keeping his vows for once, but it doesn't compare.

(Seriously, let's be real. We all know GRRM's real issue is with what GOT did to his legacy. HOTD is just the one he thinks he might be able to nip in the bud before they make so many changes... and if he can't, that's just the wound of GOT all over again.)

And I do agree that Helaena's suicide is important, however it happens. The KL riots being sparked by her suicide are also important. (Though I very much doubt they won't exist at all in any form -- again see that vision from S2E8 and the fact that it included a scene evidently from the Storming of the Dragonpit.) And Maelor is important as well for something GRRM didn't mention (perhaps he thought he couldn't get away with it, though evidently he couldn't get away with saying anything) -- the fact that his death is what causes Daeron's heel turn from a sweet kid to a war criminal, and thus the Sack of Bitterbridge and Lady Caswell's own suicide (imo far more emotionally moving than Thorne's stand against the crowd). But... those butterflies don't necessarily have to be "killed", as GRRM fears. Daeron (who at least we know exists in the show) can have a heel turn for a different reason. Bitterbridge can be sacked for a different reason.

If that's what they choose to do, because yes, Daeron doesn't have to have a heel turn at all, Bitterbridge doesn't need to be sacked at all, the entire southern campaign can be a different story, they can write anything they want, as faithful to F&B as they want or otherwise. But GRRM's greatest worry seems to be that a less-than-faithful adaptation won't be a "logical and convincing" story where all the points lead to a conclusion, and... I'm truly sorry to say, that does not necessarily follow. Whatever conclusion HOTD reaches will be the sum of whatever came before. If some parts aren't built up as well as they should be, lbr F&B's Dance has had the same critiques for years. And again, the multiple-historian conceit, as well as it being a history and not a POV narrative, has never helped this issue, because it lead to one of F&B's greatest faults -- that it is not consistent with itself. (Unrelated to the Dance: see Alysanne's attitude towards Baelon inheriting at the end of the Long Reign chapter, vs pages later in the Heirs of the Dragon chapter. "You will be a great king" vs "a cock is not essential"... these chapters were written years apart, and not edited together nearly as well as they should have been.) If GRRM has a different story in his head that is more consistent than was put on the page, again this may be too little too late for all the work already put into the show.

However... I have a very strong feeling that it's not "Maelor the missing" or even whatever's happening with Helaena and the riot, or Daeron and Bitterbridge, that's GRRM's real worry about "toxic butterflies". I think the subject he really wanted to talk about, and knew he absolutely could not (and yet perhaps hoped that post could pressure HBO about), is the absence of Nettles. Her absence would greatly change the relationship of Daemon and Rhaenyra, who we've seen HOTD has chosen to portray as an OTP, a toxic one perhaps, "always meant to burn together". But it was already portrayed as odd in F&B for Daemon to lose his head chasing after a teen girl (if IMO entirely consistent with his personality), but with HOTD's apparent Daemon/Rhaenyra plot... Well, see S2's process starting with him leaving her in ep2, to their reunion in ep8 convinced she's the queen chosen by the gods... is Nettles going to come in and blow that up? Make Daemon abandon Rhaenyra again? It could be told in a "logical and convincing" way, I still think it should be, but at this point it's hard to see how it would be. (And looking at GOT in comparison, Nettles does not have either the textual value nor the fanbase that Brienne has, and just look how they ended their toxic OTP of Jaime/Cersei, despite the books.)

But plot and relationships aside, Nettles is a character whose meaning reaches well beyond F&B, to affect ASOIAF itself. Her legacy regarding Targaryen exceptionalism, to the subject of who can really ride a dragon, her legacy regarding the Vale's Burned Men... all these are elements that may be extremely important in TWOW and ADOS. So if GRRM has been trying to convince Ryan that Nettles is the most important character that should not be eliminated, and yet has been shut down... well, no wonder he's been depressed about his own legacy.

And again, I'm sure it's the deeper wound of GOT's ending that's been truly paining GRRM regarding his legacy, that their ending that may be the only thing anyone ever sees. Perhaps he was hoping that HOTD could help correct the issue. That its foreshadowing would help readers understand the truth, what happens in TWOW and ADOS, the real ending. But... again I'm deeply sympathetic, and I'm sorry HOTD couldn't be that for him, but the truth is no other television show can be GRRM's legacy in that way. The only thing that can correct GOT is his own words. The only thing that truly matters is him finishing TWOW and ADOS... and it's been 13 years since ADWD, 5 years since GOT S8. I want to tell him, so much, fuck the butterflies-- as you've said so many times yourself, the show is not the books. Leave them be in their other universe and focus on your own, please. Please.

Because, again, let's be real. If GRRM does finish his grand epic and completes his legacy, his last word on the subject... if this makes HBDiscFlix want to do a GOT remake once they have an actual story to adapt "correctly" (which they still won't)... you know that when the final season of Game of Thrones Brotherhood comes out in 2050 and Tyrion rides a dragon despite having no Targaryen ancestry... all the clickbait sites and YouTok will have vidposts like "The Missing Character from House of the Dragon - What You Don't Know About This GOTB Development!" It won't matter what HBO did or didn't do with HOTD. It's just GRRM's own words in the end... if he has them.

[starbylers]

This is a response to the person who sent me an ask about their doubt last week, just hiding it below incase people don’t want to see that :)

For context this is an in-depth explanation of:

Why Mike’s monologue had to happen

Hi! And yeah of course I can try. I fully understand why the monologue is throwing you off and as someone who doesn’t believe Mike was consciously lying you’ve come to the right place lol. I explained a little more about why I think that in the tags here if you wanted to read more about that perspective. I’ll probably link to a few other posts in this aswell because it ties into a lot of stuff I’ve made Byler analyses about before.

So the thing you said about his arc being ‘does he love her or not?’ is what I think is causing the issue, because that isn’t Mike’s arc. You’re right in that that’s the question that is being posed to the audience at face value, but that’s not his character journey. I have a long post about this here but essentially, the core driving force of a character cannot be another person—Mike needs to, and does, have his own personal inner conflicts which the Byler perspective provides (pressure to perform being grown up which is made incredibly obvious to us in s3, and dealing with the tumultuous process of figuring out that he is not straight in s4—I personally don’t think he’s there yet though, I think the full realisation of why he’s been having all these problems with Will & El is still to come).

The perspective of ‘yes he does’ love her just because he said the words is the crux of the entire plot twist, because it’s the conclusion people inevitably come to when they don’t pay attention to the details. (I don’t mean this insultingly at all btw! The whole thing is very subtle and easy to misinterpret). And ST is all about details, something which has been told to us by the creators and is also obvious in their use of foreshadowing/hinting/referencing in all aspects of the show, not just Byler.

Mike’s arc didn’t finish a season early. This has even been told to us i.e. by David talking about how s5 will pay off big characters including Mike, and Finn himself saying Mike still has a ‘journey’ to complete, and also just the fact that we don’t have the final season means no-one’s arcs are complete because the story isn’t complete. The fact that a “love confession” occurred at the midpoint (s4/5 are basically intended as two halves of one story—post explaining this here) is what makes it extremely obvious that Mlvn is not the conclusion of this tale.

The monologue can probably be said to have many purposes, but here are the main ones to me:

It presents a solution that ultimately ends in disaster, and associates that disaster with Mike and El’s romance. The monologue is so, so important in showing that Mike and El’s love did not, could not save the day. That it wasn’t strong enough—further proof from the script here. It shows that El got what she thought she wanted, only to discover it wasn’t what she really needed. It may have helped save her but it didn’t help her achieve her goals (save Max, kill Vecna). Kind of a metaphor for their entire relationship lol. It’s also supposed to show that not even an ‘I love you’ can fix their issues—they literally don’t speak afterwards. I’m not sure El’s fully processed all this yet, but figuring it out is what’s going to drive her arc towards self-actualisation and allow her to win next season.

It furthers the miscommunication plot between Mike and Will. It’s an indisputable fact that Will’s lie influenced that monologue. (We can tell just by watching but it’s also in the script if we needed even more proof lol. Not to mention: the track that plays behind it is You’re The Heart. The episode is called The Piggyback. Will’s face is right over Mike’s shoulder when he says ‘I love you’—Will is integral to and inseparable from that confession). That is so important, and something we’re supposed to notice. The whole point of the monologue is who’s really behind it (aka who’s really behind the painting & words that drove Mike’s speech), because this sets the stage for the Byler confrontation next season. It’s literally the Benverly poem plot from IT, something we know the Duffers have taken inspiration from.

If Mike hadn’t gone through with it, there would be no movement forward in the story, we’d enter s5 with exactly the same plot we just watched in s4—Mike trying to say he loves his girlfriend for the literal third season in a row. It’s boring, it’s not good entertainment. Mike finally saying it (and yet there still being problems between them & it occurring under questionable circumstances) pushes development in the narrative, sets up new conflict for the next season. Or, if Mlvn had decided to break up because of Mike not saying it in s4, that would’ve led to Byler becoming painfully obvious and ruining the twist they’ve been setting up for literal seasons. Everyone knows Will loves Mike, and if Mlvn broke up in that same season the entire audience would see the ending of the show coming from a mile away. Remember, Byler is being written as a plot twist. It’s very likely tied up with the supernatural plot too.

The content of the monologue itself is supposed to demonstrate precisely why Mlvn are finished, why they don’t work, and should raise people’s eyebrows about the legitimacy of Mike’s “confession”. Like you said…he remembered her t-shirt lol. It’s impersonal, nothing about why he loves her or what he loves about her; he literally, proveably, lies in it and anyone can verify that by watching s1; and he makes comparisons to superheroes which is the exact opposite of what El needs (her whole issue is thinking she’s either the monster or the superhero, when what she really needs is to stop thinking in such a binary, and learn to be El the teenage girl, the sister, the daughter, the friend, the human being, and find her power in that).

And something else they purposefully do this season is give us examples of other love confessions to contrast and show how ingenuine Mike’s really is: Jancy & Will (not my original post! I just expanded on op’s point).

Now as I said before I don’t think Mike intentionally lied. My opinion is that he knows deep down something is not right with their relationship and that he doesn’t feel how he should, but after Will’s speech and encouragement he choses to believe that he can love her, that he can be what she needs (except it’s not what she needs, it’s what Will needs lol). So not lying, but the monologue is basically a desperate attempt to a) grasp at straightness and b) save her life. He’s in denial, and also terrified of her dying. Very bad combo.

So yeah there’s my reasoning :) what you were saying about the potential of a familial ‘I love you’ is true, yeah it could’ve ended the plot line. But that’s the kind of thing that should be a conclusion to the entire story, something that occurs right before victory not disaster. Because then what would the implication be? That El’s family’s love isn’t enough for her to save the world?

And the way they will explain the monologue is so simple. It’s Will. It’s Will’s feelings that inspired Mike. All that needs to happen is for Mike to realise that, and the audience will realise it along with him. Mike: I only said that because of how much Will loves me? Audience: Oh! So he doesn’t actually love her! It’s Will, Will is who he’s meant to be with! It’s a classic ‘the person who was right in front of them all along’ trope. Once people understand that, it basically makes truly romantic interpretations of the monologue invalid.

I can’t say exactly how the ending will play out—I expect we’ll see the cracks in Mlvn shatter rapidly as s5 progresses, maybe more arguing/demonstration of their incompatibility or El asking Mike to say it to her face and he still can’t, Mike and Will simultaneously getting closer and it becoming increasingly obvious that Mike is in love—but I’m choosing to trust they’ll do it justice. Mike’s monologue is just a key turning point in the larger story.

Also just one last thing, you said he seems sincere and I do agree but I think it’s because his fear in that moment is extremely real, and there are truths within his monologue i.e. that he doesn’t want to lose her etc. so that’s where it’s coming from in my opinion :)

[wicked-storybrooke]

Trying to Solve An Unsolvable Puzzle: Random Plot Holes

This is just a list of random plot holes and my crackpot attempts at solving them xD. This was in response to someone asking for every plot hole in the show ever. I know I haven't got them all but feel free to add!

Magic doesn't always seem to come with a price. I guess Rumple could have been exaggerating or the price paid each time is very subtle or creates a butterfly effect.

I think it was established that to break a curse someone needs to believe in the fairytale realm and perform true love's kiss. Why didn't true love's kiss work for Henry and Lucy or Henry and Jacinda, even though he was willing to believe, especially when he kissed Jacinda? Surely he shares true love with his wife and daughter! I would certainly like to think so! But instead, the curse is broken by Henry talking to himself on the phone and performing true loves kiss with his mum. Henry, having remembered the conversation from years ago had proof that the curse was real, not belief. I guess you could say that he had to leap from one conclusion to the next prior to that and Emma herself saw the effects of the apple turnover in s1. Or maybe this curse was a little different because they used the blood of someone who'd already cast the curse (Regina), rather than the heart of what the caster loved most. This, in itself, is a contradiction as to how the dark curse works, especially because Regina could have used this method rather than allowing Snow to crush Charming's heart in 3b. But maybe she just didn't know that was an option.

And talking of breaking curses, I'm sure it was stated in s1 that only a Savior can break a curse and yet, throughout the seasons we see Regina, dreamcatchers, and Henry break dark curses. I suppose you could say that Henry inherited some of Emma's Savior blood and that the dreamcatchers didn't technically break the s5 curse.

In 1x22 Rumple states that he created the Dark Curse, but the Black Fairy was later proven to be its creator. Maybe he just replicated the scroll and counted that as creating it. Or maybe he just created that particular dark scroll.

In the canon companion book 'Regina Rising' we find out that the Blind Witch's apple was already imbued with a sleeping curse before Regina got the curse from Maleficent. She didn’t need to get the sleeping curse from Maleficent. Maybe she just wanted it to be extra strong.

I love David and Snowing, but his fall in the s6 finale should have killed him. He fell from really, really high up. True love's kiss might have been able to break any curse (again, proven not to be the case) but I don't think it could have woken him up after the severe and fatal head injuries and broken bones he surely would have obtained. Maybe the beanstalk provided a really, really, impossibly soft landing spot. Or Snow and Charming sharing a heart made them both immortal, so long as they kissed each other back to life?

Hook suddenly went extremely dark only after finding out he was a Dark One. I guess it's kinda like when you have a cut on your foot but you don't feel it until you look at it and then in comes the pain!

According to the episode, 'Nimue', Nimue became the first Dark One 200 years prior to the present s5 Camelot events. Given the time Big Ben was completed, Rumple had only been the Dark One for around 155 years by the time of present-day s5. There were 21 Hooded Dark Ones, which means they all lasted an average of 2.14 years before they were killed and replaced. I guess this might not be a plot hole, but it's wild considering they're meant to be virtually immortal. A lot of people wanted and secured the power of the Dark One before quickly being killed themselves, it would seem. But then and again maybe Zoso lasted nearly 45 years as the Dark One and the rest were killed within a week lol.

Cora's heart in later life and Hook's in 'Smash the Mirror' had fewer dark spots than Snow's. Maybe guilt within a short time frame of having committed the act was the key to darkening a heart or Cora put a glamour spell on hers and Hook's hearts because she really liked the colour red. Alternatively, she concocted a potion for them that reduced the dark spots because it was giving them… heartburn?

The inconsistency of how near Wish Hook could get to Alice. They were around only 5 metres apart in the letter scene in 7x10 and they were really close in 7x08 before they hugged. As a knightrook fan, this really frustrates me because it makes it seem like he could have just remained on the opposite side of the tower and continued to raise her, or it makes it seem like he could have at least spoken to her from beneath the tower. It really doesn't seem to make sense, especially because he didn't know where Alice was when Emma healed him in 7x02. Then, it's shown that the only way they can communicate in the NEF when Alice is free is through letters passed onto them via Robin, yet they're standing across the street from each other in 7x21. The only thing I can think of is that the curse gets worse every time they draw too near. If they stay far away for a while, they are able to get closer to each other until the next time they get too near. And, I guess he could have thought it was more of a priority for him to find a way for her to escape. It seems out of character though.

And in 7x02 Wish Hook told Emma and OG Hook that he only snuck into the tower to see his daughter when the Witch wasn't present, but he clearly lived with and raised Alice. He was dying and had no reason to lie. Maybe he was a little delirious, or he did sneak in to play chess after he'd been cursed, all the while feeling like he was "being stabbed by a million knives." Can't have been easy to concentrate on his next move!

I don't understand why Cecelia left. She loved her family and wanted to get back to them but she was frightened of hurting them. But the thing is, it was her heart that was poisoned. Ella told Alice that her father had the same mark on his wrist, to which Alice explained that it was because he got too close to someone he loved who was afflicted by the curse of the poisoned heart. She was at more risk of dying than them but I guess it would have hurt them emotionally and mentally if they'd been responsible for her death. And the wrist mark does look painful, perhaps it could have killed Marcus and Alice eventually. And Hook's reasons for not getting near the tower could be the same as Cecelia's. I don't understand why Cecelia hid all that from Marcus. He didn't seem the sort to lie to his kids about one of their mums abandoning them. But the curse was said to 'corrupt the heart' every time the victim drew near to their loved one. So maybe Wish Hook and Cecelia ended up hurting their loved ones without meaning to for this reason.

Maybe not a plot hole exactly, but it is kinda silly that due to time travel and the Wish Realm, there are 4 Reginas walking around the United Realms (The Regina we've been following since day 1, past Regina who has just or is about to see young Henry off on his adventure to the NEF, Wish Regina and Serum!Regina). They could make a whole army of Regina's lol! There'd be 3 Henrys, past Rumple and Belle (who are still alive), 2-3 Zelenas, depending on whether she has a Wish Realm counterpart and 2 Robin Jrs. Just before Zelena and her daughter moved to the NEF, they were clearly in Storybrooke and not the United Realms. If they were in the United Realms they would have known what was in store for them from living around their future selves. The same goes for Regina. Robin must have had one hell of an 18th birthday party with her mum and Auntie, where they mistook glasses of grandma Cora's memory potion for party cocktails before they left! Easily done! But it seems more likely that the timelines split, creating 2 separate timelines- one where the united realms formed just after Henry graduated and another where only Storybrooke existed there at the time. This means that the Hyperion Heights folks did not go back in time to their true loved ones, but rather they went back in time and travelled to a new timeline, where the Charmings etc. were not the Charmings they knew and loved but they were instead alternative timeline versions of them. The same thing happened in the s3 finale. All characters except Emma, Hook and Zelena are not the same characters we grew to love pre-3x21. They are alternative timeline versions of the characters, not technically Emma's family because their timeline was altered and they've had different experiences. It is therefore very possible that Emma never returned to her original family members and they are still waiting for her to return to this day D':. Then, of course, even Emma and Killian are alternative timeline versions of the original s1-s6 Captain Swan in the finale. So the only character who remains the same version as the character we're initially introduced to is Zelena. What are the chances xD! Again, technically not a plot hole and I imagine the writers didn't intend for this to be the case but it makes me so sad that we technically never see the s1-3x21 Charming family, Regina or any of the other original citizens of Storybrooke again but it makes me even sadder that they never see Emma again. *Cries for eternity*

[cinereuz]

I’m getting my hopes up SO HARD but okay hear me out

Imagine if Camp Camp s5 is like. A flashback season. With Jasper and Davey as the main characters. BECAUSE BECAUSE BECAUSE.

- The summer ended and you can’t really guarantee all the campers are realistically gonna come back next summer and I can’t just see them replacing half the beloved cast

- Gwen got a job so she won’t be a counselor anymore and idk if the writers will replace her because reason above and Also David himself said he probably can’t run the place by himself

- Season FIVE. YOU KNOW!!! JASPERS WHOLE THING!!! THE NUMBER FIVE!!!

They set the whole finale up like a shit ton of the characters aren’t coming back (or the camp at all!!) so the conclusion my brain came to is this will be a flashback season and GODDD crossing my fingers it is

[vitos-ordination-song]

David Simon said that if he’d gotten two more episodes for s5 like he wanted, there would have been more of Namond and Randy, as well as more of Dennis “adjusting to his new position in life.” I feel like they gave us conclusions to all three characters but it would have been nice to see more.

[evakuality]

Favourite character moments

Number 33 of ???? (David appreciation week edition)

Today I got a little emotional thinking about David deciding to stay back at Matteo’s place after the neon party to clean up.  It’s only a really small moment, but it tells us quite a lot about David.  First, this look he gives Matteo when he approaches talking about it:

That’s not the face of someone who expected to be seen and noticed doing this.  he’s looking a little wary (although that is, in part, because he knows Matteo left in not a good way and so there will be concern for him mixed into that as well).  So, the first thing we can kind of glean here is that he wasn’t doing this for recognition from Matteo; he was doing it because he genuinely wanted to help out.  But that leads to the second point.  The living area looked like this:

While the kitchen looked like this:

While there are bottles etc in the kitchen that do indeed require attention, it seems to be in much better shape than the rest of the place.  So if this was about making a big impact you’d start in that other room.  Move the cushions around and back onto the couch etc etc.  Those are all small things you could do to have an immediate impact on the pleasantness of the space.  Instead, David chose to work in the kitchen.

There are two possibilities here, and they could kind of work together anyway.  the first is that the kitchen is smaller, more contained and less of a ‘wow that’s a LOT to deal with’ than the living area.  So it’s possible that working in the kitchen is less overwhelming for him.  But of course we also have Mia’s comment that Matteo relayed to him earlier.  That Matteo got in trouble for leaving the kitchen in a mess after their last time together in the flat, and so it’s entirely likely that in terms of feeling like being a help for Matteo specifically (and potentially for knowing that a messy kitchen specifically upsets Mia too) David decided to start there because it has meaning, and it’s a sign of ‘I see you and I heard you and I’m acknowledging what you said’ which would have a lot of meaning for Matteo, who sometimes seems to feel unheard and unacknowledged.

Speaking of Matteo and feeling unheard etc:

This is type of out-of-focus shot we get of him for almost this entire section (the part where they’re cleaning up, not the ‘Laura is my sister’/almost kissing part; David first goes out of focus in this scene during the build up to almost kissing, but that’s another post for another time).  In another of these I talked about how David was out of focus a lot and how it tied into how we (and Matteo) see him as still being out of focus and unknown.  In this section, that’s Matteo.  David is completely in focus for this whole bit.  Now obviously, Matteo has just had a very rough time, he’s panicked and had to calm himself down and he’s so clearly still listless and unsure and so it makes sense that he’s feeling out of focus himself.  But let’s cry now about how much we have learned and how far David has already come for this to be a moment when he is in focus entirely.  He’s no longer the dark, mystery boy of the first conversation; he’s now the nice boy in a playful shirt who took notice of Matteo and did it at a time when he feels like he isn’t much understood at all, and who made sure to do something to show just how much attention he pays.  It’s no wonder that Matteo tells Hans that one thing he loves about David is that he feels understood.  Because David does understand him because he pays attention, and he shows that from a very early point in their journey.

[skamsideblog]

okay so seeing as they did a trans storyline instead of the bipolar storyline in s3, what if we got a david s5 with the main story being about film school, his living/family situation but then the bipolar story with matteo? it tends to run in families, and it could be done in a similar way to og s3 with an episode while still addressing the other elements of the season

[notassshe]

Here are some proofs that Noah and most of the cast know that Byler is endgame in season 5.

The Duffer bros already outlined ALL of S5 during the pandemic.

2. They wanted to film seasons 4 and 5 back to back, but because of time constraints, it was impossible. Why would they want to film season 5 right away if the scripts weren't already ready?

3. Sadie told a media outlet that some of the casts KNOW what's going to happen to their characters.

4. Noah, our lord, and savior said that the Duffer bros are building Byler up and that they're at their peak. He definitely knows WHAT'S UP. So does Finn. And David. And Gaten. Basically everyone.

In conclusion:

THEY KNOW. BYLER ENDGAME. BELIEVE IT.

Side note:

I'm one of those people who think that they've already shot a few scenes for season 5. Because of all the leaks that didn't happen like, Lonnie, the harness, young Mike and Will (not sure about this one), Will at Rink-o-mania, etc. And this.

It's a prom poster that was leaked a long time ago. Apparently, there's already a casting call for S5 and they're looking for cars that were made in 1988. The Duffer bros said that there would be a time skip. So, that means they'd be Juniors. Also, look at the theme of the prom. "Lovers ball."

It makes you think, huh?

EDIT: Apparently, it's just a draft, but I still think they've already filmed some scenes for s5! This MIGHT be real after all.

UPDATE: Season 5 starts right where s4 left off, and !RUMOR! has it that they already filmed the first 2 episodes for s5. The time skip is after those two episodes.

The second episode of s5 might be Will getting Vecna'd.

S5 Casting calls:

[bellamygateoldblog]

society if s7 was:

• ismail not having a typical 'discovery' queer plot but just being allowed to exist as a queer, non-binary turkish person already aware of their identity, living in germany and encountering all that comes with that since it fits better with previous seasons

• ismail and ava plot, no 'isi and ava used to be besties in middle school' cliche just isi choosing to target ava when she joined their group like nora out of need to be Cool, partially linked to umut plot, gets most focus since it's the longest running storyline and important to develop ismail as a main character. ava doesn't make it easy for them and is confrontational like in s5 when she interacted with them

• sascha could still exist but only as ismail's old friend they recently connected with over the pandemic and has no relation to ava, thus ava is not used as an inconvenient obstacle to their relationship unlike in previous seasons (🙄)

• sascha is still queer and apart of the queer youth group, could still be love interest BUT they both like eachother from the start, feelings reciprocated by ismail from day 1, there's been something between them since the summer they spent together through the pandemic but no proper conclusion has been had yet, no defining moves made etc, and it's a more calm, stable part of the season (sort of...safe space to return to) on the sidelines rather than front and centre w a similar relationship dynamic to josh/nora

• david is a recurring old gen mentor figure for isi, matteo is mentioned, david having muslim roots is also mentioned

• family-focused, the gender/sexuality commentary comes from umut developing a problem with isi being unapologetically who they are and comfortable w their identity due to paralleling isi-ava w the needing to be Cool and being influenced by others at school (even better if those friends at school are white germans like constantin, isi makes a point umut is different from them how isi is different in another way), makes ismail ashamed of themselves where they haven't been in a long time etc. isi trying to explain to umut why they're different, isi preventing umut taking the same path they did like redemption of sorts...not being able to take back the past but being able to be a better influence for their brother now

• lou is actually one of constantin's new friends he was ditching isi for in season 6, no love triangle, neither constantin or isi have a crush on her, lou is only in a handful of scenes to show how constantin and isi have grown apart and how much isi has changed from being like lou in s5 and s6 to becoming less so, less messy less reckless less unfeeling, growing- const is still drawn to people like lou but isi is starting to move on

• instead of mailin and lou, yara has the small heart-to-heart scenes with isi and their similar upbringing/religion/ethnicity and her empathy and ability to relate comes into play when discussing umut, another unlikely circumstantial friendship like isi and fatou were in s6, josh and yara could also come up in relation to sascha and link to how their "best friends💚" relationship is a lot different from josh and yara's (more romantic than platonic like josh/yara)

• awkwardness in every single interaction between isi and nora/ava, however a weird familiarity with fatou where both of them became real friends since season 6

• kieu my as isi's actual best friend, their relationship is stable and brutally honest and doesn't need building- the sleepovers with her, isi and zoe still happen. she is also pulling away from const and they have a heart-to-heart abt it like they did abt fatou in s6

• set up for finn s8- finn and zoe relationship troubles sideplot kind of still happens- insight into insta dynamic

• basically the only storylines focused on are isi in relation to ava, umut, constantin and a little bit of sascha, which are all tied together, and we see a lot of isi at peace with who they are identity-wise but not so much personality-wise (like how they're a sponge for other people's louder personalities and energies and a follower and don't voice their own opinions above those of others) and trying to figure out how to navigate their conflicts as someone who is a minority w lots of insight into their culture, religion, connection to plants, and supportive family-dynamic of their gender expression and sexuality

• ismail goes as jennifer check to the halloween party

[garkgatiss]

Hi, hope you're doing good ! I was wondering, do you think Redbear is a dog, the young Victor Trevor or is it just a metaphor of Sherlock childhood trauma ? I've read many meta but no one seem to stick to the same conclusion.

imo Redbeard is a metaphor, and it won't ultimately matter and maybe won't even be clarified in S5 what Redbeard "actually" is.

From Yorke:

At its best the Rubber Ducky moment can be a strong and powerful dramatic device, but at its worst it can lead to overblown melodrama, speechifying and cliche. (Quint’s speech about the shark attack on the USS Indianapolis in Jaws steers a very fine line between the two.) David Mamet scathingly refers to it as the ‘death of my kitten’ speech — that point in a play, usually three-quarters of the way through, when the writer interrupts the action with a pretty monologue. It often begins: ‘When I was young I had a kitten…’

The British playwright Simon Stephens noted the same ‘tendency in apprentice playwrights to write about ancient family secrets which are revealed “four-fifths through the play, often in a drunken confessional speech”’. Like Mamet, he’s dismissive, describing it as ‘theatrically inert’. Orson Welles himself referred to ‘Rosebud’ as ‘dime-book Freud’. Arguably the revelation of off-screen trauma works when it informs the current storyline and creates an active goal, as in Thelma & Louise. For a compelling modern spin, it’s possible to view The Social Network as one long argument between the characters as to what the Rubber Ducky moment actually is. It works less well when it’s back-story. But should it happen at all?

Mamet insists writers resist: ‘When the film turns narrative rather than dramatic, when it stands in for the viewer’s imagination, the viewer’s interest is lost … The garbage of exposition, backstory, narrative, and characterization spot-welds the reader into interest in what is happening now. It literally stops the show.’ He’s ridiculing, rightly, the culture of over-explanation that litters bad narrative and pushes the audience away, refusing to treat them intelligently enough to add 2 plus 2 themselves.

Mamet points out, as E. M. Forster did before him, that our only interest should be in what happens next. We know, after twenty-three films, almost nothing about James Bond’s background. We don’t need to — he’s pure character; we know who he is. The less back-story a character has, the more readily an audience is able to identify with them — the more we can see they’re like us and not like someone else. We may want to know more, but it’s the not knowing that keeps us watching. It allows us to fully experience the journey ourselves and actively join in the process in which a character pursues their goal, their flaw is subsumed into their facade, their need into their want, and the goal of all drama is achieved — a rich, complex, three-dimensional character appears in front of our eyes.

The multiple absurd identities of Redbeard in the show stand in for the hundred-plus years of debate over why Sherlock Holmes is the way he is, why he abhors sentiment, when the glaringly obvious answer is that he appears to abhor sentiment because he's a gay man in Victorian England, but of course no Holmesian wants to acknowledge this so they go around making asinine speculations about dead childhood pets or whatever instead.

I think the reason everyone comes to a different conclusion re: Redbeard is that the answer simply does not matter. It has no greater consequences in the story beyond answering its own question. The only way it would plausibly even come up is if they explicitly tell us that Redbeard is a metaphor in the process of Sherlock understanding and embracing his love for John, in other words "the revelation of off-screen trauma works when it informs the current storyline and creates an active goal".

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Hints of Beth and the CRM War in 5x09

So, after I re-watched 6x08 and 6x09, which I posted last week, I also decided to re-watch 5x09. I did so for various reasons, including a comment I received on an old theory. But mostly, I’d been wanting to rewatch this episode for a while. I had a hunch that there might be hints toward the CRM war in it that we couldn’t possibly have known about or recognized back in S5. I was not disappointed.

Tyreese, Lizzie & Mica:

So, in this new comment I got, this commenter said she thought Ty was likening the twin boys to Lizzie and Mica. And I’m sure this has been discussed in some iteration, but I sat and thought about it in a way I hadn’t before. I know I’ve discussed that it seems, from the photos, that there seemed to be a “good” and “evil” twin, and obviously that has ties to Lizzie and Mica. But just think about it this way. Ty was obviously present for the Lizzie/Mica tragedy. Then, he’s killed by one of these twins as a walker.

A random line from 5x04, 4 Walls and a Roof, came to my mind. After Abe and co get on the short bus to go to D.C., Ty is digging graves (for the Termites they killed) and Rick goes to help him. Rick asks him something about what happened on his way to Terminus or something like that (can’t remember the exact question) and Ty answers that what happened “killed me.” Rick, looking a little annoyed, says, “No, it didn’t.” And that’s it.

 But it occurred to me that Ty’s line is a foreshadow. He was speaking about Lizzie and Mica, saying that their deaths killed him (emotionally) but it was a foreshadow that another set of siblings would actually kill him a few episodes later. I don’t have a whole lot more to say about this particular thing, though I’m going to talk more about Ty in a minute.  

The thing is, I really don’t think we understand the point of Lizzie and Mica, yet. We’ve had lots of theories, talked about how they impacted Carol, the ways in which they could be Beth proxies. But I don’t think we understand their significance in the grand scheme of things, and I’ve never quite known what to do with them symbolically. But given that they’re in Ty’s hallucination WITH BETH tells me we will probably figure it out when she returns.

Hints of the CRM in 5x09:

Several years back (like during S6) I tried so hard to figure out what the radio messages in 5x09 pointed to, and couldn’t really come to any solid conclusion about them. Of course, back then we knew absolutely nothing of the helicopter people, so how could I?

We’ve definitely seen some of the things they talk about come to pass, both before and after this episode. They mention prisons (prison fell before this) and setting people on fire (Carol did that both in S9 and also to Karen and David in S4) and of course they mention machetes (Red Machete). All important symbols.

But these messages also tell a story. Look at what they say:

“At least 68 citizens of the Republic have been killed in four deadly attacks along the main coastal district. The group has continued their campaign of random violence, moving across the countryside unfettered, with the Republic’s military forces in disarray.”

Okay, so I’m assuming the “republic” is the CRM. This suggests a different group performing guerilla warfare against them. Think about all the symbols these lines encompass. We have a group of rebels attacking the CRM, the COASTAL district, and of course the CRM itself. So it’s talking about some rebel group that will be fighting against the CRM.

I think that’s super significant, especially because of the TWB template. Remember that we saw a group of rebels, perhaps led by Will, though it’s a little unclear as yet, who is Beth’s proxy in that template. And they’re outside the CRM and, presumably, because they saw the slaughter at the college, going to fight against it. So I’m seeing this as a huge hint for Beth’s return.

The other thing to bring into the mix here is the Wolves. Because all of this in 5x09 definitely foreshadowed the wolves, and it’s where we first saw their “WOLVES NOT FAR” signs. And where did we see TONS of Beth symbolism: around the wolves.

Second message: “…then terrorizing the village by night, carrying out revenge attacks which include hacking innocents with machetes, and in some cases setting them on fire.”

Okay, so I get that this isn’t flattering for Beth or her group if she’s with the rebels, but it is really hard to know what they’re talking about here, since we don’t get the full sentence. The point is, these are acts of war, and even if this is talking about the rebel group doing this (and I think it probably is, given that wolves did all of these things a few episodes later in 6x02) it’s no worse than what we’ve already seen the CRM do.

But I can also see that if Beth is with or leading this group, this is a very Grady-like issue to be dealing with. Are we killing these people for the greater good, because the war needs to be won? You can see how Grady could easily have been a setup for what she’d be dealing with later on. And maybe she’s the “new sheriff” because she has to police her own people and not let them get too blood thirsty. Or maybe I’m reading into this WAY too much and the point is simply that there will be a violent war. ;D

There’s only one more message that comes out of the radio. So we had the first one, talking about the CRM war and a rebel group attacking the CRM. Then talk of wartime violence.

The third message is Beth singing her song. That’s super on-the-nose, if you ask me. No more clear way to say that Beth will be part of the conflict the radio voice was just talking about. See why that made me happy?

Tyreese…Again:

I’m gonna make a sweeping claim, here. I think the themes around Ty’s death are pretty much the point of the entire series. Yes, I know that’s a tall order. Let me explain. It does tie heavily into Beth’s return, but it encompasses other things as well, and I think it’s a huge part of the current Negan/Maggie/forgiveness story line.

So, when I first went to watch 5x09, I pulled up S5 on Amazon and it shows all the episodes, the first one, of course, being 5x01. And the little picture it had for that episode was Ty in the cabin with baby Judith. I sat and thought about that and that there’s the picture of a cabin in 5x09 that gets blood on it and it occurred to me that those two things are probably related.

So I watched 5x01 after watching 5x09. I’ll admit I didn’t see tons of smoking guns that haven’t already been discussed at length in 5x01. The biggest thing is simply that it was a setup for Ty’s death themes in 5x09, and I definitely need to revisit my cabin theories. ;D

So, if we look at the people Ty hallucinated, there’s the Gov, Lizzie, Mica, Beth, Bob, and Martin, right? These are all obviously people and events Ty feels guilty about. Bob’s death, because he lied about Martin and that sent the Termites after them. He feels guilty about being duped by the Gov and not realizing what a bad guy he was. Lizzie and Mica for obvious reasons. And Beth.

I honestly don’t think Tyreese did anything to feel guilty about with Beth. Not in the same way we think Sasha might have (Sasha/Tyreese Theory). But based on what the Martin hallucination says, I think he’s just really broken up about it and wondering if he could have done anything to change it. Just my opinion, though.

So, if you listen carefully to who is saying what in the hallucination, we have two different representations of good and evil. There’s 1) Bob vs. Martin and 2) Beth/Lizzie/Mica vs. the Gov. In each case, they’re like good and evil angels sitting on Ty’s shoulder and they’re arguing.

So, for example, Martin says the thing about Ty lying about his death and how, maybe somehow, if Bob hadn’t died, it would have changed things with Beth. Domino shit. And then Bob says [paraphrasing] “No, that’s bullshit. I got bit at the food bank. It went the way it had to. The way it was always going to.”

And we have the same thing going on with the Gov. He’ll basically tell Tyreese what an idiot he is, and then one of the three (Beth/Lizzie/Mica) will say, “No. It’s all right. It’s better now.”

So, you can see that Ty is really at war with himself internally.

It’s important to note that one big thing that’s mentioned is that he forgave Carol for Karen’s death. The Gov actually says that Ty is weak and ridiculous because he sat across the table from a woman that murdered someone he loved, and he actually forgave her. The Gov really razzed him about that.

And this is one of the things I mean about over-arching themes. Carol killed Karen and David in S4, which we all know was one great big foreshadow of arcs to come, and Ty forgave her.

I really think this was probably meant to be a foreshadow of Negan. Negan’s story, killing Glenn, was a way bigger deal and way more front and center, mostly because no one really knew Karen except for an episode or two and Glenn was such a beloved character.

Now, we have this redemption arc for Negan and Maggie is going to have to decide if she’ll forgive him, moving forward. We could apply this to plenty of other story lines where Rick took the violent route or forgiveness wasn’t had, and it leads to trouble and death. So, I think this is pretty huge for the overall show.

And I really think it points to Negan doing something to save TF in some way. Because they forgive him and he’s allowed to live, that will save lives. We’ve talked about this with Daryl showing Dwight mercy as well.

My Biggest Beth Takeaway:

As the episode progresses, before Rick and Michonne come to get him, Tyreese does finally stand up to the Governor. He says that the Gov was a bad guy, and that wasn’t his (Ty’s) fault. He says what he talked about with Noah: that he never turned off the radio. He always faced it, and did what he could to help. He said he forgave Carol specifically because “it’s not over.” Which I take to mean that he has hope for the world’s future, and forgiveness is the only way forward. Being angry and holding a grudge only brings death.

And then he said the thing that jumped out at me most: 

“People like me CAN live.”

Okay, so what does he mean by ‘people like me?’ Because obviously Ty didn’t live, so this doesn’t apply to him directly. Or if it does, he means that he’ll die, but people like him CAN live under some circumstances.

To figure this out, we have to go back to his cabin in 5x01. During that entire scene in No Sanctuary, Martin was giving him crap about being a “good” guy. Ty answers, “you don’t know what I’ve done.” And Martin looks at baby Judith and says, “no, you’re a good guy. You save babies. That’s a little like saving an anchor when you’re without a boat in the middle of the ocean.” (Total boat/water reference.)

So, when Ty says “people like me,” he means those who choose to be good. Who choose to be hopeful and moral, rather than violent. There’s a long-running theme in the show that Chris Hardwick mentions a lot, that people who function as the moral compass of the group often die. And that’s true.

But here, Ty says, “people like me” (meaning the moral compasses) CAN live.

And Beth is in the room with him when he says that.

She’s looking at the clock radio that simultaneously reads 5:10 (music box) and also 8:22 (Resurrection).

The skeptic might argue that all these other people are in the room too, and how can we be sure he means her? Well, putting all the mountains of TD evidence aside, they do have a point. After all, all the “good” characters Ty hallucinates (Bob, Beth, Mica) are moral compasses and fit the criteria. There are plenty of others not represented here (Hershel, Dale, Glenn, Denise, even Abraham to an extent) but these are the ones Ty felt particularly guilty about.

But I would argue that we only heard one person’s voice come through the radio: Beth’s.

So once again, look at this from a bird’s eye view. Talk of the CRM and a coming war. Then Beth’s voice comes through that same radio, suggesting she’ll be part of it. And later on, “people like me CAN live.”

See what I mean? As I told my fellow theorists, this episode really had all we needed to predict Beth’s return. We just couldn’t have understood the meanings back then.

And honestly, this may be the explanation for the Lizzie/Mica thing I mentioned above. It’s a representation of the evil killing the good, which is super traumatizing and messes everyone up because as humans, we’re hard-wired to believe good will win out.

So, we had Lizzie/Mica, Noah’s brothers, and then the good vs evil hallucinations I already talked about. And we might even have a representation of this at Grady because of evil officer Bob.

We had good Bob who died in 5x04, and then Evil Officer Bob, who directly led to them only having two prisoners, which directly led to Beth getting shot. And I remember when it aired, the show brought a lot of attention to it by doing clickbait articles about why there were “two Bobs.”

So, it’s something they wanted us to notice. And then we see Bob in Ty’s hallucination here. I gotta think that Sasha and Ty’s sibling relationship plays into this in some way as well.

Okay, I’ll shut up, now. But re-watching this gave me tons of hope. We can’t say for sure that we’ll see her in the bonus episodes (though obviously I hope we will) but I’m more sure than ever that she’ll be part of the CRM war. And we’re kind of on the cusp of that. We just have to sit back and wait. ;D

[romancing-lady-whistledown]

Being in the minority who actually likes Skam France S5 and S6 overall despite the very frustrating aspects they both do have, it’s incredibly weird to me that they made this choice for their first 100% new gen season. As I said here after S6 ended, I thought that S6 had so many interesting plotlines, the frustrating part to me was just that the season had so much going on that there wasn’t enough room/time to actually explore those plotlines properly and give them a satisfying conclusion. The one plotline/character in S6 that I thought felt very out of place and didn’t fit in with the rest, and that I on top of that didn’t find interesting at all and honestly think they could’ve left out of the season altogether, was Tiff.

At the end of the day I don’t know what this season will be like, but I wasn’t really interested in watching a season without the characters I’m attached to regardless, unless the new season really intrigued me, so learning that the character I thought they could’ve left out of the previous season altogether is the main just kinda...made that an easy choice.

Still gonna spam my followers with Elu and the David/Niels-era of Skamfr all day, but unless I see some really interesting stuff on my dash in the next few months, I’ll pass on S7.

[alexandralyman]

My Tumblr Fic Masterlist

It’s been a while since I’ve done this and it seems like a good time now to compile a list of all my Captain Swan fics that are only posted here and not on AO3 or ff.net. These are mostly little ficlets/drabble type things, post ep fics, stuff based off promos and behind the scenes pics, some short AUs, and a few extras from BtH and BH&H.

I’ve organized it by type and there’s over 70 fics linked, most are untitled and I’ve included a short description for each. Some are just a paragraph, some are longer, S3, through S7 are all represented in some form, there’s a lot of Dark Swan stuff from S5 because I apparently wrote a ton of that, there’s the untitled Lieutenant Duckling “sneaking in the Princess’s bedchamber” three part saga which is my most popular Tumblr-only fic, there’s the Underworld, Storybrooke, the Enchanted Forest...basically everything I could find.

It’s pretty damn long, so the actual list is under the cut. 

Happy reading, everyone!

Canon Based/Pre and Post Ep Fics

Touch - Killian with both hands on their date (written before the ep aired) (untitled) - written for the prompt of Killian buying Emma flowers (untitled) - Emma and Killian after his heart is returned in S4 (untitled) - post Heroes and Villians, Emma still doesn’t have her own place (untitled) - Emma and Killian drinking rum together in her apartment in New York City Serenade (untitled) - Killian loses his hand and becomes Captain Hook (untitled) - Smutty angst about the threat of the darkness in S4 (untitled) -- Killian and the attempt to find Emma after she becomes the Dark One (untitled) - Killian after Emma is swallowed up by the darkness (untitled) - Emma’s connection to the dagger after becoming the Dark One (untitled) - Emma after becoming the Dark One (untitled) - Emma sucking Killian into the darkness (untitled) - Killian finds the Dark Swan (untitled) - Dark Swan and Killian smut Can’t Sleep - in Camelot, Emma can’t sleep Bed of Roses - the middlemist field (untitled) -  Dark Swan contemplation  (untitled) - Dark Swan just before the curse brings them back to Storybrooke (untitled) -  Dark Swan with Killian’s ring (untitled) Dark Swan and the dreamcatchers (untitled) - Angsty, smutty goodbye before Killian is pulled into the Underworld king size (the space between us) - Post Underworld (untitled) - Jones Brothers, based on the selfie Jen posted with Colin and Bernard (untitled) - Milah’s thoughts when she meets Emma in the Underworld (untitled) - another Underworld drabble (untitled) - Killian after Emma leaves him in the Underworld Dust to Dust - Killian says goodbye to Robin Hood (untitled) - Killian attempts to summon the new Dark One (untitled) - Another Killian summoning the Dark One fic lonely too long - Post Underworld David versus Goliath - Charming drags Killian into the woods at Christmas unpause - moving in together in S6 swordfight - Prince Charming and Captain Hook battle for a prize compass rose - Killian gets another tattoo gifts of the magi - Killian and Emma at Christmas safe passage - the Charmings on the Jolly during the flashback in the musical ep o villain, villain - Killian remember’s David’s father if wishes were horses - Wish Realm, written before the ep aired beggars would ride - the follow up to if wishes were horses later that night - Emma pays Killian back for the “You kiss me with that mouth?” comment from S6 (untitled) - Killian and Emma post Dark Waters a bit familiar (but different too) - Captain Beauty S6 friendship fic (untitled) - Killian’s thoughts on Emma’s red leather jacket

AUS

Christmas Tree Lot - Christmas fic Doorcrasher - Emma and Killian meet while lined up for a Black Friday sale the tower - AU of the S4 finale, Killian rescues Emma from the tower history repeats itself - another take on Captain Hook and Princess Emma in the Wish Realm the dark ones - when there’s 2 instead of 1 (untitled) Killian and the Dark Swan in Storybrooke family reunion - Underworld Jones Brothers AU at my worst, you are my best - Killian gets split in two with Dr. Jekyll’s potion (untitled part 1) - Captain Hook returns from Neverland to kill Rumple and discovers a new Dark One instead. (untitled part 2) - follow up to the Captain Hook/Dark Swan fic (untitled) - Killian becomes the King of Camelot (untitled) - Young!Emma and Young!Killian street kids AU  Queen Takes Knight Part 1 - Emma gives into the darkness, and Killian follows Queen Takes Knight Part 2  (untitled part one) - Lieutenant Duckling “Sneaking into the Princess’s bedchamber” (untitled part 2) - the follow up to the LD fic (untitled part 3) - the conclusion to the LD fic Anchor - AU of the tavern scene in The Jolly Roger (untitled) - written for the prompt, “Swan, you’re depriving me of a romantic gesture.” Secret Agent Man Part 1 - AU based on the movie Kingsman Secret Agent Man Part 2  (untitled) - Captain Duckling Enchanted Forest runaway bride AU

Beyond the Horizon Extras

treasure map - Smutty drabble Remember When - reminiscing about when they fell in love (untitled) - Killian gets hit with a bag of flour that makes his hair appear grey

Between Heaven and Hell Extras

the anonymous benefactor - background as to how their current arrangement came to be sin eater part one - Killian is summoned by a desperate young woman in 1920s New Orleans and decides to use her plight to his advantage with Emma. This one is fairly long and is currently unfinished.  sin eater part two sin eater part three sin eater part four  your sin (my salvation) - end of Lent reunion smut untitled (somewhere) - Emma and Killian meet up in an empty movie theatre for a midnight screening of West Side Story midnight mass - Killian prays, Emma answers upon a midnight clear - Killian at Christmas a quiet moment - sometimes Emma needs a bit of a respite from what’s going on in the world and seeks Killian out.

[elizabethsharmon]

Hello and welcome to the next episode of the Clowneries! Today we will focus on the role of the coloc in s5 and on the future of Eliott and Lucas. Since instagram users srodulv and lucallemant couldn’t chill for one more day and already spoiled our clowning yesterday smh at least they already confirmed two of three theories for today:

1. Lucas moves in with Eliott and Arthur takes his room in the flatshare

2. Eliott works in a video rental shop

3. Lucas becomes Arthur’s guru

1. Lucas moving out and Arhtur moving in

If you’ve read our theory that the principal is Arthur’s father, you already know that his home situation is not peachy. The next theory was inspired by the bts photos from night shoot on 31.10/01.11:

first of all we have skamfrance.live’s story from the end of filming of a very tired Robin:

and his post with Alienor and Edouard which means they were most likely on set as well that day:

finally, we have David’s post

Yesterday evening was without doubt one of the most strong and incredible night shoots of all 6 seasons combined. And in this kind of night, when the narrative stakes are so high, every single detail matters. The organization, including the plans of the day before to catch up on, the energy of everyone halfway through the filming, the ability of our electro / machino team to install an incredible structure at 4 am as the faculty of our camera team tries to install a camera + large optics in a box not necessarily made for that.

So what we know is this: night shoot was incredible, Robin was on set and most likely Alienor and Edouard were as well. Those three things combined gave me chills as my brain cell provided me with this theory:

Other circles/parallels that were already in the show: (1) in 1x06 Emma says to Lucas “you’re a good person” and then Lucas says it to Imane in 4x08; (2) in 2x13 Manon says to Lucas “you’re not alone”, then obviously he passes it on to Eliott in 3x09, then in 4x10 Imane says “someone who will understand you and makes you feel like you will never be alone.” (on the sidenote if anyone talented wants to gif those, then please do, i’ve been waiting for this for ages ajsksjd)

So if my theory is right, we would get another two parallels to the circle: (1) another person in the flatshare who needs help because they’re struggling (Manon -> Lucas -> Arthur) making the room in the coloc a Safe Place which is quite poetic if you ask me and (2) Imane telling Lucas (and Eliott) in 4x10 “it’s time for you to get your room back” and Elu moving in together.

Now almost two weeks after I came up with this, Axel leaks a story from the filming that basically confirms that Elu are living together in a new appartment now. Obviously at that time we could assume that they’re hanging out at Basile’s or Arthur’s or Yann’s BUT there were too many things that suggested it’s Elu’s place like (1) the matching polka dot robe and pyjama pants, (2) blue walls (they scream Lucas), (3) drawings on the walls (Eliott). Also twitter user @indriee27 spotted that the art on the wall seems to be the same Maxence once posted on his instagram (it’s no longer there now):

Conclusion: those sappy bastards moved in together and honestly? love that for them :’) (they even have a fireplace!!!)

Either way, the story makes me think that we might get a saturday/sunday morning clip from their new appartment at some point in s5 🤞

A month later and thanks to instagram users srodulv and lucallemant, we already got the confirmation that they are moving in together :’)

2. Eliott works in the video rental shop

What they also confirmed is that Eliott works in the video rental shop... which is actually something I’ve been talking about for weeks now because I had a gut feeling about this. But first things first, we have to jump to the first time we got a glimpse of the store - on the 10.06 David posted a photo with Maxence there:

(Clown Doc, p. 2)

Now originally the theory was a little bit far fetched and it was inspired by these photos - exclusive sneak peak of the Clown Doc, section Theories, p. 211:

We didn’t have any other evidence at this point so we let it be until we found this and our interest in the theory resurfaced again:

One night, one cellar, one video club...

And now we obviously know that we were right about this, thanks to Eliott himself :’) At the same time some new bts from the filming were found which you can see here and here’s another exclusive sneak peak we found:

3. Lucas becomes Arthur’s guru

Final theory for today was inspired by skamlaserie photo of Assa and Edouard:

When you know that the torch is in the right hands.

Obviously, we know that it implies passing the ‘main’ title from Assa to Robin, but what if the fact that Edouard is in the photo as well is not accidental? What if Lucas takes over from Mika and becomes the next guru for Arthur? For example we have this photo:

Robin (Arthur?) looks completely broken, like he knows his life is hell and he accepted it because he doesn’t think anything can change for the better: Well this photo may as well be just a bts but what if we get an actual clip with bro talk by the tree trunk?

So that would be all for today! As you can see, thanks to Eliott’s post and Lucas’ comment two of our theories were already confirmed and the season haven’t even started yet! Which is why we ask you again to trust us - we know we’re right 😊

On Friday (27.12) we’re flying to the moon 🚀 on Iza’s blog @arthurbrousard​ and meanwhile MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!