#in a different guy's gay romance novel

[july-19th-club]

scale of aramis musketeers to jin guangyao untamed how cool are you with the fact that you grew up in a brothel and spent your teenage years in a combination of implied sex work and a variably successful martial education. notes: you gain points by sincerely dedicating yourself to self-improvement through meditation, even if later you walk it back and embrace a life of derring-do. you lose points for focusing on revenge or planning ahead more than the next literal minute in your day. does not guarantee you to win or lose points but as an added bonus you CAN fuck your way into high society

[poorlittleyaoyao]

Beefleaf isn't canon. Mxtx has said she doesn't like to write another gay ship different from the main (she struggled with svsss)

I have heard about this! The content I saw was just so insistent about Beefleaf that I wondered if maybe I was misremembering and the "no same-gender side couples" thing applied to MDZS only. (I have gotten similar vibes from Moshang and from whatever Yue QIngyuan and Shen Jiu's ship name is, but I've now obtained Vol. 1 of SVSSS and plan to read it, so if those two aren't actually canon, don't tell me! It can be a surprise!)

The "no side couples"--or, in MDZS's case, "no queer characters AT ALL besides the protag, his love interest, and the disgraced goth weirdo who annihilates himself to resurrect the protag"--thing confuses me, because... I guess I don't get the point of it? I totally understand not having the bandwidth to develop more than one couple. The challenge of adequately building up other relationships fully independent of your main couple without detracting from the exploits of your protagonist and his love interest could be daunting, as would expanding the story's focus and juggling multiple equally-prominent lead characters for an effective ensemble piece. But here it seems like people picked up a vibe between the characters from what was already there in the text and then MXTX was like, "oh, no, they're not a couple! there's just the one couple!" and THAT I don't get. If she's disinterested in writing women, but has a cast of attractive men who are all obsessed with each other, why not toss a romance in there between some of the guys? Again, you can keep it entirely as-is and just toss a kiss in there or confirm in interviews that yes, they were in love, and you're so happy readers picked up on that even though you didn't get to tell their full story on the page.

I am extrapolating based on the Xiyao situation specifically, so maybe this doesn't apply to her other works! But it is a choice that confuses me. A couple doesn't have to be that developed; Xuanli certainly aren't, but their existence is a major plot point. I should think that the presence of other m/m couples would bolster the main couple, if anything, because it sets a precedent for them existing in their world. There are situations where adding an expressly romantic element would change something fundamental about the relationship, but there are just as many where the addition of a romantic element changes nothing or makes it make more sense (case in point: Xue Yang's freakout after killing Xiao Xingchen).

Like I said, I get not wanting to devote energy to it, and I also get that sometimes a work or performance is received by the audience in ways the artist didn't intend (this is the Destiel website, after all), but to make it a conscious choice to have One M/M Couple Only? Based on what I currently know, this perplexes me.

[three--rings]

You Should Watch The Spirealm/致命游戏

What is it?

A 2024 cdrama based on the danmei webnovel Kaleidoscope of Death. It's a censored version of a BL novel, with thriller, mystery, and horror aspects, 38 45-minute episodes.

What's it about?

A young man accidentally gets drawn into a virtual reality video game that involves passing tests in a series of doors. Once you start playing, you cannot stop and if you die in the game, you die in real life. He meets a frustratingly mysterious, competent, and attractive man in the doors who recruits him to be part of his game solving team. Well, specifically to be his partner. Lots of gay subtext ensues as they fight through door after door seeking to get to the final door in order to end the evils of the game. (The book is a little different, as it's more supernatural.)

So basically it's a infinite flow deadly game situation, with m/m romance.

Main Characters:

Lin Quishi/Ling Juishi (novel/drama versions of his name)- Our protagonist. A smart graduate in computer science, good at games. Well meaning but a little naive to start out.

Ruan Nanzhu/Ruan Lanzhu - Our love interest. In the novel he crossdresses often and he presents as a woman for the whole first arc. Super intelligent, expert at the game, extremely flirty but reserved at the same time. Got one look at Lin Quishi and said That One.

Other Characters, aka the Found Family:

Ruan Nanzhu's team consists of a pair of twin brothers (one young and dumb and one uptight), a hot doctor vet, a woman whose main job seems to be cooking dinner, and a not-so-stable dude.

Then there's Li Dong Yuan, a rival player who becomes reluctantly-tolerated friend, and his cute female assistant. And Tan Zao Zao, an actress who hires the team to help her in the games and also sticks around persistently.

They're pretty much all delightful and some may start off silly/annoying and end up breaking the hell out of your heart.

Okay, but what's the VIBE?

Big Guardian vibes. The team of lovable scamps investigating weird supernatural (?) type mysteries? While the boss and the guy he fell for have a situationship? Totally. This definitely has more of a horror feel than Guardian, though, even though they tone things down from the novel.

Each door is its own setting, and some are more scary than others. So one is a mental hospital, one is a traditional village, one is a gothic manor, etc. Lots of tragic female ghosts who have been wronged and are getting revenge. The one that really creeped me out was the one with the children with the eggs. It does a lot of creepy rather than really horror. It's not truly gory at all, as it was made to air on Chinese TV and they have strict limits to violence.

The camerawork and set decor is really nice, actually. It looks great most of the time and a lot of the effects seem to be practical. It looks a lot better than Guardian is what I'm saying, if not quite to a film level.

How Gay is It?

Oh MY GOD. Okay look, this show was NOT supposed to be released, but thank whoever put it up for that two hours. It's really incredibly blatant, like really as much as Word of Honor was, although because the plot is focused elsewhere it's maybe not quite as in your face. But the actors UNDERSTOOD THE ASSIGNMENT and there's so much longing and SO much implication. After a while, everyone basically just treats the main couple as a couple even thought it's never talked about.

I mean episode one there's Only One Bed and at the end of their first meeting Ruan Nanzhu gives Lin Quishi a RING. I mean, the flirting is also BLATANT. I also just find this a really romantic show, despite the Not Talking About It thing.

Is it a Happy Ending?

So, It's Complicated. I'm trying not to spoil anything and this show is pretty easy to have spoiled for you. There's definitely a good bit of tragedy in this show in general. Characters die and it's really sad. Like, this is a plot with stakes and if no one we liked ever died, it wouldn't be the same.

I will say I consider this show to have a happy ending, but you do go through some pain first. Essentially the main couple does have a separation, but there is a reunion before the end. There's also a scene that will give Guardian fans fucking PTSD, but the show does a fix-it on its own, okay? I do feel that I have to warn for that, though.

Where can I watch it?

The show is legally available on Viki with a subscription. Obviously there are other ways to find it as well, and links went around before it was picked up by Viki so check tags if you need those.

I really hope this encourages some people to watch this show, as it's really well made and a great time. It's one of a very small number of danmei adaptations we've gotten, but a lot less people have watched it since it's modern and had a weird release. Honestly, it's well written and acted and filmed and you should give it a shot.

(All gifs by @ruanbaijie, thank you very much for allowing me to use them. Check out their blog, there's such gorgeous stuff there!)

[sodasa-was-taken]

How subtle is the romance of G-Witch really: The language of romance and the bias in interpretation

First of all, I want to express my gratitude for all the feedback I've received. You guys are awesome. When I posted my first analysis, I had no idea how it would be perceived. Throughout my life, I've mostly been met with confusion, if not a bit of curiosity, when I've told people about my fascination with the romance genre. Even people who like the genre don't treat it with the respect I do but rather see it as something they can turn their brains off to. I was scared that people who saw my analysis would think that G-Witch, I dunno, had too much else going on to be considered a romance. I can't tell you all how validating it's been to get this much praise for writing about one of my biggest passions. Thank you so much.

This post is less an analysis of G-Witch as it's an exploration of the hypocrisy in how straight and gay romances are interpreted even by the queer community. I've engaged with a lot of female/male romances, especially when I was younger and thought I was straight, so it's quite surreal seeing similar stories being interpreted vastly differently based only on whether the main characters are queer or not.

There's been a lot of discussion about how explicit same-sex relationships in fiction should be. Many agree that the minimum for the characters to be unambiguously into each other is for them to kiss. That would be an ideal metric if the same applied to a man and a woman being into each other. It does not. For the vast majority of history, since people first started portraying characters in romantic relationships, explicit depictions of physical affection between those characters haven't been a thing. Depicting that sort of thing didn't become commonplace until the 20th century. For example, you would be hard-pressed to find any of the somewhat indecent positions Miorine and Suletta get into in a Jean Austin novel. Like, usually in a platonic hug, you lay your head on someone's shoulder or clavicle, and Miorine's burying her face in the upper part of Suletta's cleavage. How scandalous!

Of course, these views are centuries old, and the expectations of what should be included in a story about people getting together have changed drastically since then. Except in a lot of ways, it hasn't. Especially in manga, light novels, and anime, it can take real-life years for two characters to show affection through physician touch. Still, it’s expected that the characters are or will become attracted to one another and that they’ll end up together before the end of the story. Unless they’re the same gender, where not only is that not an expectation, but due to tropes such as Bury Your Gays, people are more likely to think one of them is going to die. That’s messed up. Being a main character in a romance or something adjacent shouldn’t be a death sentence for any character. Then there’s the fact that same-sex couples-to-be in fiction can be as forward as they want in their physical and verbal affections. Still, a straight couple-to-be that does nothing but bigger or just be the most prominent characters in their respective genders will still be perceived as less ambiguous. A man and a woman who get a bit flustered around each other are hopelessly in love. Yet, two girls sharing an intimate hug after a conversation about how neither wants their engagement to just be a transaction; that’s “totally platonic.”

Better yet, Hollywood has fine-tuned this to the point that the male and female leads only need to look at each other for about five seconds, and it’s enough to infer that they’re attracted to each other. This has become so ubiquitous that people have gotten confused when the leads are implied not to have gotten together despite having shown zero romantic intent. Having the character show romantic intent isn’t generally considered a requirement for them to end up together in a Hollywood film. No, seriously. All this is to say that literary and visual shorthand have always been and continue to be a major part of romances. Yet, the bar is much higher when it comes to the confirmation that two characters of the same gender are into each other. An author can use the exact same narrative tools that have become a staple of female/male romances/romantic subplots, and someone will tell you you're being led on for picking up on them.

The main reason for the high standards placed on same-sex couples is the desire for representation. If straight couples are allowed to or even expected to kiss at some point in the story, the same should be the case for same-sex couples. That said, kissing neither is nor should be the be-all and end-all of good representation. Yeah, straight couples get to kiss and have sexual relationships, but by all accounts, a significant amount of straight representation is absolutely abysmal. Lots of straight romances reek of sexism, outdated gender roles, and stereotyping, are toxic, and straight-up have a reputation for romanticizing abuse. If kissing or an “I love you” is the metric to which good representation is judged, two straight people who have zero chemistry or are downright abusive would be better representation than a same-sex couple whose relationship is built on mutual respect and support but who doesn't get to kiss or say “I love you” and that's ridiculous.

It’s also worth noting how people who tell others they’re crazy for seeing a queer story where according to them, there aren’t any, get characterized as needing to see something explicit to pick up that a story is or even just be interpreted as a queer romance. The thing is, most of these people aren’t dense; they’re willfully ignorant. They can pick up on the signs just as easily as they can in male/female romances; they’re choosing not to, even if it’s likely an unconscious decision. There seems to be a need among queer people to have depictions in media that even bigots can’t deny are queer. Why though? Representation is vital in helping to normalize the existence of various types of people, but for so many queer people, it just doesn’t seem to be enough. So what if some people wouldn’t get it unless the characters kiss? Those people will just start complaining about how they’re having queerness forced down their throats, and that’s their problem. There’s so much more to the queer experience than displays of physical affection, and this representation gatekeeping isn’t helping anyone. Normalizing same-sex couple kissing is important, but normalizing people of the same gender kissing is only going to normalize the kissing itself. If, for example, two people of the same gender get to kiss and then one of them gets killed off, that's the opposite of normalizing same-sex relationships.

Pulling from my own experiences, I've never been told that there was anything wrong with two people of the same gender kissing. Still, I saw same-sex relationships as inferior and believed being in one couldn't give me the life I wanted. I tried so hard to convince myself that I was straight and was only attracted to someone with a different gender presentation than me – because I was also an egg who told myself I was wrong for feeling uncomfortable for being referred to as my assigned gender at birth. Honestly, I thought that I would be happier if I didn’t even entertain the idea of getting together with someone with the same gender presentation as me. So, imagine how much it meant to me to see a show about two girls where one of them didn’t even think that getting engaged to another girl was an option, both of them having young men interested in them but asking each other to spend their life with them, and ending the show being married and being all the happier for being with the other. That's the kind of representation I've been looking for.

On a less serious note, I’d like to share an antidote from when I watched episode one for the first time. When Suletta sees someone floating around in space who appears to be in danger I didn’t initially consider that the person in question might be Miorine. The visuals planted the idea in my mind and the thing that confirmed it was the framing of the two inside Aerial’s cockpit. I couldn’t explain what I was picking up on, but to me, it was a dead giveaway.

[crimsonxe]

Because I'm particularly annoyed: To everyone within the LGBT+ and ships involving them circles, get this through your goddamn head. RWBY the "little" anime-inspired web show that:

subverts sexist and homophobic tropes from that inspiration

has a deep & mature story

respects its femme characters

that has had morons saying it was baiting for years

has a married wlw couple w/ child; 2 confirmed lesbian characters; 2 mlm characters in the novels; a bi MC (VA'd by a bi femme)/a sapphic MC (VA'd by an "on the spectrum" femme)/ and together a wlw MC pair; a trans character that isn't a joke

THAT show DELIVERED one of the most normalized via being treated no different to its hetero sibling ships, being within a non-world of gay, and not being spotlighted; well-developed; well-earned; 10 year steady slowburned; and mature CANON wlw romances around. That including having a bi character that feels bi not a lesbian character w/ a bi sticker slapped on cause not only does she have guys w/ feelings towards her as well as a former male romantic partner, but also has a femme w/ feelings towards her as well as a current femme partner in a non-world of gay. The fucking cherry on top: it has Beauty and the Beast at its core mixed with yin-yang.

Get the fuck over this notion of "oh that's just RWBY" in a head-up-ones-own-ass obnoxious manner. Before it was the goddamn "well BB isn't confirmed, its just been hinted/teased" even with the show making it fucking blatantly clear it was happening, including soft-canonizing it via a character directly bringing up the mutual romantic feelings going on between the two tying it to her own ones towards the other part of the sibling hetero pair of the show. Now after its been given one of the best most beautifully done scenes in the entire show w/ a goddamn song written by an LGBT+ artist and sung by both them & another LGBT+ femme to canonize them; its STILL being treated/view like its both bait/non-canon and/or lesser than other pairs. Its especially fucking rich when I know some people who'd sing the praises of Warrior Nun and Avatrice, which is in the same goddamn vein as RWBY and BB with both being great ships and shows. If anyone tried to pull this shit with that show & that pairing, you'd get your damn ass torn apart and you know it; but RWBY isn't given that same respect. Caitvi/Violyn (Arcane) gets more damn respect and technically speaking its not even fucking canon yet, its still in the phase that either v4-7 BB was at. Where its been heavily implied & teased to the point of me going with it as soft-canon, yet not a damn soul would scoff at it being mentioned within LGBT+ ships. But once again RWBY is different.

Those that pull this shit are:

the shit-for-brains know-nothings that either want to shit on the show because of their own hoity-toity its too below us bullshit or haven't bothered to actually watch the damn show

the bigoted incel pieces of shit that just don't support LGBT+ yet infest our spaces;

the antis that don't care what was built up, they're salty bitches that just can't stand their pair didn't happen

the entitled ass LGBT+ that think all LGBT+ should be rushed, spotlighted at the center of the story, and aimed at an LGBT+ audience instead of normalized for a general audience.

So if you're going to thumb your nose at the show and its rep, then fuck you and go fuck your damn self. You're no damn better than the incels and chuds. And don't even think to reach for any LGBT+ cards cause I've got my own one. They're canon and they're great get that through your fucking heads, that little web show fucking delivered. Don't like it? Fine, I don't really care. But don't you fucking dare thumb your damn nose at it and not expect to get dragged over the damn coals by me.

[letteredlettered]

Stupid ways CQL changed the story from MDZS:

First on most people's list is gonna be the gay, and I agree on a political and societal level that this is an egregious change I can't get on board with. I will say though that on a personal preference level, I don't think the romance really adds much; the magic of this story is not the gay and I'm just as happy with WWX/LWJ have the intense, weird, unstated relationship they have in the drama as I am with the ultimately gay relationship they have in the book.

The Yin Iron plot in the drama is so bad, you guys. So bad. This includes a) there being multiple parts of the Yin Iron, b) WRH having some of it and creating puppets with it, c) LWJ/WWX going to search for it. Did they add this so WWX looks less terrible? So it looks like all he's doing is fighting fire with fire? I hate it. There was a knife fight, and WWX invented guns. That's literally the point of him; that's why he's terrifying; he invented something that was beyond his means to control and it got out of hand and everyone wanted the gun and there was only one. The plot in the drama is just SO STUPID. I like WWX and LWJ getting to bond when they search for it and the trip to the bunny cave, but you could really have them bond and get bunnies a different way.

The most egregious thing, imo, is how the Wen remnants are first portrayed in the drama. After the Wen Clan is defeated we see constant abuse of these prisoners, often pretty much in front of everyone's face. At one point they are even paraded in front of everyone and WWX is the only one who has a problem with it. I get that WWX is the hero, but it makes everyone else look super morally reprehensible. Like, how are we supposed to get behind LWJ if he can stomach that. Actually, forget LWJ, because I actually think the scene in the rain with the umbrella establishes that LWJ is simply unwilling to defy social convention/popular opinion, and while I think it is a slight twist on LWJ's character, it's not a big of one as you might suppose, given the novel. But Lan Xichen? The character who is supposed to be the absolute paragon of kindness, goodness, and compassion? It's always sat wrong with me. Anyway, the novel basically shows that the poor treatment of the Wens is mostly hidden from view of the public, and WWX only finds out because WQ goes to him for help.

Replacing NMJ's dismembered arm with an angry sword spirit was super confusing. Why does the sword spirit attack people's arms, and why does it ONLY do that at Mo Manor? It's stupid and confusing. I assume this was censorship as well? Unwilling to show some dismembered corpses?

Speaking on NMJ, the character is pointless in the drama. I think you really needed to show the way he helped and trusted Meng Yao and how utterly betrayed by Meng Yao NMJ was to really understand his character.

Speaking of which, it is so completely ludicrous that the Wen Clan attacks the Unclean Realm before the Wen Sect Training/Tortoise of Slaughter sequence. It does say in the book that the Wen Clan and Nie Clan are kind of in constant skirmishes, but that's why the Wen Clan heavily attacks Cloud Recess first and then goes for Lotus Pier; the point is that the Unclean Realm is too well defended. That said--I still find it outrageous that in the book everyone (except WWX, perpetually clueless) seems to know about the attack on Cloud Recesses but sends their children to the Wen Clan anyway. Like I get they're all intimidated but that is too much.

WWX falling off the cliff. So silly. LWJ never would have allowed that to happen. What was JC even doing? That said, the actual death in the book is so unclear; I get that it was the spiritual rebound, but what was JC doing then? What did it look like? I found it really weird how the book just did not illustrate a few very key climactic plot points.

Weirdly, JFM. I actually like the guy better in the drama, but that's a problem. He really is a terrible father to JC, and his terribleness really helps explain why JC is like he is.

[buddiebeginz]

You know I think I find this kind of thinking even worse than people who just never liked Buddie to begin with. People who claim to love Buddie or who were Buddie shippers and who are now trashing Buddie just to prop up Buck/T*mmy are literally some of the worst.

I think everyone should be allowed to like and ship who they want. I'm not a multishipper so I don't ship Buck and T*mmy and I'm not the biggest fan of T*mmy in general but I do see the significance of him in Buck's story.

What I don't get is how so many of you have become so enamored with a ship from very little buildup that you don't care anymore about how important Eddie coming out and Buddie becoming canon is. Also that you'd go back on all of your opinions on Buddie and the history they've shared.

The fact is Eddie coming out as gay is incredibly important. Just as Buck coming out as bi is ground breaking in it's own way and increasing much needed representation for bisexual characters, a character like Eddie coming out would also be ground breaking. Eddie is older, a veteran, Mexican, a single dad, struggles with mental health issues, a firefighter, fits a model of stereotypical masculinity, etc. There are so many people who would be helped to see a character like Eddie have a queer awakening in ways that are different than Buck's.

Buddie becoming canon is also equally as important as the coming out storylines for Buck and Eddie. I know people keep trying to say it's not and keep hating on anyone who dares to talk about Buddie along with Buck's bi awakening but it all matters.

It's not that Buddie has to happen for Buck and or Eddie to be queer but it should. I could write a novel on the history that is shared between these men. They are so much more than just friends honestly not sure how anyone can even see them that way. If you compare them to any other friendship on the show there is so much more there. They also know one another and are there for one another in ways no one else is. Buddie already has this epic love story built up it's why so many of us are waiting for them to reach that next level of their relationship.

Buddie would also be groundbreaking in their own way if they make it a canon ship. We have never really had a slow burn queer romance especially not with two men figuring out their sexuality later in life like this and on a primetime show. It's also not just about Buck and Eddie it's about Christopher too. We've watched Buck and Eddie basically co-parenting together for six years. It would be so amazing and important to have Buck actually recognized as Chris' other dad.

I just don't get how you can watch these men loving and supporting and fighting for one another over six long years and then trash their relationship because one of them kissed someone else and call this new guy basically his soulmate. We don't even really know T*mmy or how a relationship with him and Buck might work out because they're not even in one they're just dating.

I don't get anyone who can't see how Buddie being canon could literally change how queer ships are written in the future. We deserve to have our ships written with the same passion and care as straight ships have been. Also don't say you love Buck and then say you want his endgame love to be some guy you don't even really know. He deserves an amazing love story like the other characters have had on the show. He deserves Eddie who has fought and screamed and chosen him time and time again. Who has literally made Buck Chris' other dad, even put it down legally in writing for all intents and purposes because that's how much Eddie trusts Buck and how much he means to him.

I know the show runners/writers don't let fandom stuff influence all the decisions they make but it has some sway because I fully believe our love for Buddie has helped push things to where they are now. It does seem there is a plan already in place for Buddie to be canon but things can always change in shows I mean Tim said he was still writing and filming episodes. All I know is if the more vocal Buck/T*mmy (endgame) shippers do anything to help derail Buddie happening I'll never forgive you. I'm sure I sound ridiculously dramatic here but this isn't just about me not getting to see a fictional ship. Buddie going canon and Eddie coming out mean so much more and I'm sorry some of you can't see that.

[mumblingsage]

Semi-baked thought but recently I have read 3 different professionally published gay romances that were...fine...some more satisfying than others, but what stuck out to me was the extent to which the characterization and dialogue lacked surprises. A bi guy in an M/M romance recommendation thread on reddit pointed out the extent to which published romances gravitate toward a particular flavor of feminine man paired with a particular flavor of masculine man and it's hard not to keep seeing once it's pointed out. In each of the three books the more 'masculine' guy was bisexual. I love bisexuals (it's self-love), I love characters with differing relationships to their gender, but I'm also fighting down thoughts of a drinking game.

It's not the exact same flavor as the original Fandom Ghost but it is a Ghost. [And specific enough that it is a Ghost, not an archetype.]

Perhaps the bigger lacking-surprises issue is a craft one where everyone just Says What They Mean too often, and in rather bland ways. I don't mind the occasional revelation of Truth from the Heart; I am reading romance! But how you do it matters, points can be won for style; there's a low quotability quotient and less satisfaction because, again, it's romance, we know they're going to communicate these particular ideas, we're here to be charmed and surprised by how they do it. (In parallel to the romances, I'm reading Robin Hobb's character-driven fantasy novels, and one thing I will say for her, the characters' dialogue + narrative is a firehose of surprises in a way that often reads as more truly romantic.)

If this was fanfiction of my Blorbos I would be more easily satisfied, or perhaps the generic-ness would be less noticeable because I'd be backfilling richer details from canon. When it's happening to original characters, it leaves a feeling of dissatisfaction.

There's also a thing where the side characters root for the relationship in rather flat/uninteresting ways; I'm willing to admit some of this is Just Me having a higher angst preference than the target audience, but at the same time I've read older romances (old enough that they're standardly heterosexual) which, for all their myriad other sins, give side characters much richer and more complex emotional affects and roles. And I think some of it is approach/style more than content: if I summarize various side characters, they sound perfectly interesting, but on the page they fall flat because they just Say What They Mean in polite and generic ways. [This a flaw that annoys me in fanfiction too. Once you've read enough, you already know what they're going to say, usually, but you want the way they say it to make some impression. "Say" can be broadly construed to include body language and symbolic action - my kingdom for an extravagant gesture.]

[literary-illuminati]

2024 Book Review #26 – The Late Americans by Brandon Taylor

This was my monthly dose of high literature, chosen because I subscribed to the author’s substack for a while and generally liked it. After somehow accidentally grabbing historic fantasy and dystopian sci fi, this time it did was actual proper adult contemporary litfic, even! So y’know, horizons successfully expanded.

The book is honestly a caricature of what an outsider would guess contemporary litfic to be. Meandering and plot light, eight different POVs whose chapters’ are largely character studies of their own interiorities and relationships, deeply preoccupied with the process and structures that produce Fine Art, about a bunch of miserable queer grad students in Iowa City. It did at least refrain from having a character actually be an author attending the Iowa Writers Workshop so like, not totally free of restraint here, but it’s still nearly overpowering.

Saying ‘plot light’ is still almost overstating it, really. Each chapter is a vignette from the perspective of a different character, with varying levels of personal connection to the other protagonists. Some individual characters have little arcs, but none exactly undergo a profound transformation – the book is largely just a study of them, their relationships, their damage and their neuroses as they drift through a year of their lives.

The characters themselves are all resolutely unexceptional. No prodigies, no savants, no stars in the making – they are all talented and dedicated, but in ordinary and unremarkable ways for their milieu. It’s precisely that ordinariness that Taylor seems most interested in – how people conceive of their relationship to art when they’ve devoted everything to a craft that only barely seems to love them back.

The relationships between the characters is the other real driver of the book. They’re all..kind of dicks? In the thoughtless, inarticulate, emotionally-illiterate-lashing-out way of incredibly stressed people in their mid-20s (though exaggerated a bit for effect. Or at least, I hope so). Everyone is broken and jagged, and rubs up against everyone else only with violence and force – resentful friendships, unhappy romances, comfortable enmities. No one ever makes a clean break with anyone – no one shows much sign of being able to even if they wanted – and what character growth there is is a matter of compromise and accommodation, making peace with the people you love around you whatever their shortcomings.

The characters are all very well-drawn, their neuroses and struggles believable and mostly compelling. There’s probably one or two too many of them – at a certain point I did start having trouble with whose tragic childhood (they of course all have tragic childhoods) or insufferable emotionally unavailable boyfriend was whose – but in the final analysis they all mostly worked for me. That said, the two female POVs seem almost..tangential? Less connected to everyone else, less richly examined, less grounded and dirty and vicious. Which is a bit unfortunate, both in terms of the novel’s overall strength and because almost literally the only other women with lines in it are a bunch of deeply unkind caricatures of poetry/literature-as-activism types in one of the character's seminars.

Speaking of relationships – if you don’t know what the stereotypical litfic sex scene looks like, this book overflows with examples to learn from. Partially just trying to be true to life about a cast of horny gay guys in their mid-20s – if you draw a chart of who fucked who I’m pretty sure it connects every man in the main cast – but the book also just tries to get a lot of characterization and symbolism across through sex scenes, and ends up devoting more word count and flowery prose to them than anything I’ve ever seen besides outright erotica. All the sex scenes do have a fascinatingly vast variety of valences and tones, though – some are passionate and romantic, some flagrantly exploitative or transactional, some are just something to do on a boring break in the middle of nowhere. The sex can get a bit monotonous, but at least it’s never one-note.

Taylor’s very interested in the culture of like, capitalized prestigious Fine Art, its production, and the relation of the university to both. The book, broadly, seems to take the point of view that the whole edifice is one great machine for chewing up and spitting out hopes and dreams. It’s a recurring theme that even among these people who have dedicated their entire lives to poetry or dance of the piano are unable to spend it making the kind of art they want. And that’s not even getting into how all the people you’re supposed to be making art with are the most insufferable pieces of shit to ever see the sun.

And on the note of insufferable pieces of shit – there’s also just a very strong recurring theme of class. Getting a MFA is largely the province of people who don’t really have to care about a near-future paycheck, and the cast is divided between those who fit the description and feel varying amounts of repressed guilt and awkwardness about it, and those that have to work some job to pay the bills and display a remarkable amount of restraint in not decking at least one classmate a day. The irony of art imagined as activism or world-changing being near-exclusively the result of elite educations and trust funds is bitter and plentiful, especially among the poets.

It’s, I think, a very sort of subtle humour that across the first half or so of the book the really poetic prose and most evocative imagery is used near-exclusively to describe the vulgar, low-class survival work that the less fortunate half of the protagonists do to support themselves – meal prep in a hospice kitchen, preparing cuts of beef in a slaughterhouse, recording porn of oneself to post online – while the actually art they create isn’t much described at all. This doesn’t last, but it’s a very funny joke while it does.

The book is, on a sentence-to-sentence and page-to-page level, really quite beautiful. Unfortunately, it ends up feeling like less than the sum of its parts. There’s a bit of a running narrative connecting half or so of the protagonists, who really are major parts of each others lives and enrich each others narratives with an outside view – and then the rest only appear outside their own chapters as cameos, if that. Exactly one characters gets two chapters from his POV – the first, and about halfway through the book – and he’s one of the people who barely touches the rest of the cast, so it’s not like he’s actually the protagonist or propelling the narrative. You end up with a novella and a bunch of short stories that, put together, are both constantly hitting the same beats but also lacking any real through-line tying them all together and pushing things forward. Which really isn’t helped by the fact that the ending reads like someone gave Taylor a maximum wordcount 5 pages before he hit it and he just did the best he could.

[britt-kageryuu]

Leo was a bit bored and rambling. Though the audience and chat were enjoying him talking. His model was dressed in a white shirt with a blue flannel overtop it, bluejeans, sneakers, and his mask with one gay tail, and one pride tail. His model is seated in a version of his train car.

"I don't really understand those ASMR videos, or those voice packs I heard other VTubers do. While I get that some of them are kinda like those audio dramas that are published for popular amime/manga, games and light novels, it's still just a bit weird." He pauses to grab something, which was apparently a book.

"Like in the back of this book is the scripts for a couple audio dramas for this one series. They're from the main girls fiance's pov, but when he talks to her, they didn't record her talking. You just have his thoughts on what she's saying. Actually give me a sec." Leo mutes his mic, and the audience can see he's doing something.

After a few minutes he turns the mic back on, and starts talking with a slightly different tone to his voice, "Hey, sorry if I kept you waiting! I got caught up in traffic... Oh you just got here? You're not just saying that to make me feel better are you?" Leo's model has a bit of a playful look, and he switches the background to a park with sakura trees in full bloom. "I hope you don't mind us having a picnic instead of going to that anime café. They were booked full. But hey the weather is nice, and I made us some lunch." His model holds up a big fancy stacked bento box.

"What?! You didn't think I could cook? Just because I don't do the fancy stuff like my brother, doesn't mean I can't cook. Trust me, you'll love this. But first let's find a place to set up our picnic... Oh you like this spot?" Leo pauses, and then switched back to his train car.

When he started talking again he was back to his usual tone, "Okay, that wasn't that bad, but it's got to be a pain in the butt to write this stuff out, or improve it in a way that sounds natural if a bit cliche. That was just me rehashing some popular romance story tropes, and I couldn't get very far before I started to kinda hit a road block." Leo pauses to take a drink of his tea, "Maybe I could get Dee to try reading some stuff like this. Maybe frame it as, 'I bet you can't read this in a non flat voice!' Or something." He starts to read over the chat, and scrolls back to about where he started to read off his quick script, just reading some of the reactions.

"While this will definitely not be a big thing, and we might never do this again, it would be interesting to see you guys reaction to us posting a couple videos like that. No Promises Though!! We may be creative, but we do have day jobs." Leo continues to read through the chat, before something catches his attention.

"What in the name of Pizza Supreme does that mean? Is that some new thing, or slang? I'm gonna look this up real quick." Leo then goes down a rabbit hole of searching, and kind of forgot he was streaming, and the audience if just listening to his random mumbling about whatever it was he looked up, and then got sidetracked by.

----------------

Masterpost

Really I personally don't fully understand ASMR. The closest I ever got, was listening to a song while reading, and the song just kinda resonated with how I was reading the story, and I got a shiver up my spine.

[thepoisonroom]

hello sorry if you've been asked this recently but could you recommend some good adult trans books 👉👈 no worries if you don't!!

there are lots of good ones and i've fallen out of the loop since i left my bookstore job! there's sometimes this attitude that trans writers can only be successful in some genres but there are great trans writers in lots of genres! so have tried to include a mix of genres here to highlight some of that abundance, and because i don't know what you like so want to include many things that i think might spark your curiosity.

i'm leaving a lot of classics off that i'm sure you've heard of or have been told to read, as well as some stuff i read that i didn't love and don't feel i can vouch for. there's also lots of good stuff for younger readers (have esp heard good things about sisters of dorley hall and when the angels left the old country) which is really heartening when i remember furtively reading the one trans novel for teens at my library when i was little! and i like that there are trans characters for younger readers now who don't have tragic endings. but anyway:

i really like anything by casey plett, particularly her novel little fish! i loved ivan coyote's rebent sinner for kind of autobiographical vignettes as well as gender failure which they wrote with rae spoon. gretchen felker-martin and alison rumfitt are big faves if you like horror, they're both so smart and unsparing. your body is not your body if you want a good taste of lots of different trans horror authors. the seep by chana porter for meditative sci-fi. the fifth wound by aurora mattia which is hard to describe but v gorgeous. paul takes the form of a mortal girl if you want something kind of carefree and horny and fun and not devastating or upsetting. summer fun by jeanne thornton if you've ever been like what if velvet goldmine were based on the beach boys. i like confessions of the fox by jordy rosenberg but i think the ideal audience for this book is like transmasc grad students who are horny in a neurotic way so it's not for everyone. stone fruit by lee lai was my favorite graphic novel of 2022 and it's a really beautiful examination of breakups and caring for children as a queer person and also forgiving your family. gaylord phoenix if you like your graphic novels weird.

books from my own to-read list that i've heard good things about from people i trust (have included author names only where the title alone isn't specific enough to find the right book):

wrath goddess sing (if you like mythology remixes)

a natural history of transition (magical realist short stories)

manywhere: stories (unsettling also magical realist short stories)

chromatic fantasy (graphic novel, trans guy nun has sex with the devil and has a romance with a robin hood-type trans guy bandit)

finna (gay trans multiverse travel in an IKEA)

X by davey davis (bdsm psychological thriller)

idlewild (transmasc fujoshi tumblrinas have a toxic bestieship)

girlfriends by emily zhou (slice of life short stories)

boys weekend (graphic novel, bachelorx weekend turns into a cult murder mystery)

the boy with the bird in his chest (magical realist coming of age)

the call-out (gossipy novel in verse)

nettleblack (victorian transmasc hijinks)

the story of silence (medieval n magical french trans hijinks based on the historical poem)

unfortunate elements of my anatomy (horror short stories)

bad girls by camila sosa villada (magical realist coming of age epic)

apsara engine (south asian graphic vignettes)

future feeling (funny bizarre sci-fi)

everyone on the moon is essential personnel (cyberpunk body horror weirdness)

[blushblushbear]

cashew headcanons please im so so gay for him

TIME FOR DIS NUT aka our darling little bookworm

cut cause I went on for a bit and none of it is important OOPS

okay first off since he's a college boy let's start with the fact that he has zero alcohol tolerance

like none

he'll have 2 sips of a light beer or a half a shot of malibu and he's red in the face sweating and swaying like 'oh wow, I'm really feeling it haha'

Same with coffee

anything past a normal strength cup he's VIBRATING

he doesn't have a heart condition like Nimh but give him a shot of espresso and he'll think he does

is constantly waiting for someone to ask him for book recommendations

and when they do he is sponge bob's eager face BOY IS OVER THE MOON

also he doesn't just read good books

he'll literally read anything

he ADORES trashy novels

especially if they're spicy *eyebrow wiggle*

he recognizes they aren't good but they are so wild and out of pocket like

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE'S SECRETLY HIS EX'S BROTHER AND ALSO HIS STEP MOM'S LOVER AND DATING HIS EVIL SECRET HALF COUSIN WHOSE TRYING TO KILL THEIR UNCLE AND HIS DAD BUT CAUGHT FEELINGS AND IS NOW PLOTTING TO TAKE HIM HOSTAGE ////WHAT?!////

he'd love shows like gossip girl and pretty little liars if they were BOOKS instead

except OOPS they are actually and he'd love to infodump about that little fact to me if I let him (at least I think they both are?? I know pretty little liars is-- THAT PLOT IS /NUTS/)

honestly he loves when things are written well but he also loves when plots are NUTS

the only kind of nuts he can have

well... second kind

he'd be a secret college slut (respectfully and also def not actually a secret) if he wasn't head over heels for you

now he's just in your dms/texts constantly

his family is just as quiet and mousey as he is

everyone is just as nerdy

though his dad doesn't read as much-- he's more tv and movies and games nerd

he gets his love of books from his mom's side

he'd KILL to be a librarian

or work at a bookstore

English major vibes

but not just vibes that actually is his major lol

has def had a crush on 3 different librarians growing up and 1 creative writing teacher

can't math for shit

his favorite parts of campus friends taking him on nights out is him getting to read in little corners he can find and the 3am breakfasts at the local diner

I've talked about this before but him Nimh and Poe are in a book club together

he thinks Nimh is the coolest cause he's a PA for a publisher

can read a harry potter length book series in an afternoon (also hates terfs <3 )

his favorite genres are romance of any kind but he does have a special fondness for the trashier romances, fantasy, and he does love a mystery but mostly cause he can never see the twists coming

the smartest idiot you'll ever meet

or maybe he's the dumbest smart guy???

either way he is both very clever and very simple all at once

also very well meaning

incapable of wrong

only of oops

(a lot of oops actually, he's kinda clumsy)

once went a whole day without eating cause someone recommended a new series and he LIKED IT VERY MUCH

I wish for the life of me I could remember ANY book series atm

I know of a few by like--- vaguely what they're about but I can't remember their names

he could though

he will spend whole dates telling you the plot of a book series in great detail

loves pets

not great with them

also low key allergic to a few

big rip cause he loves cuddles

cries over a cat at a distance while sniffing

also really likes birds

met a few birds as a squirrel and now he knows Poe who was a bird so like--

birds are buds of his

can't say no to something cute

cute eraser, cute pen, cute notebook, cute cookie, cute you

just can't refuse cute

would totally rock a cottage core vibe if he could manage to keep a plant alive

he lost his ficus Marcel and he's still low key getting over it

uses a wallet sized photo of you as a book mark

def has you or a pic of you and him as a lock screen

the home screen is a pic of a page of a book

is very good at those 'name the book this opening line is from' challenge

good omens, both the book and the show, WRECKED HIM

actually good omens was his fav book to screen adaption thus far

he has a few others but he's more excited about good omens

wants to be friends with Aziraphale

I could ramble on forever but I think I'll end it here

loves that hack where you put cheese on ramen

[gurggggleburgle]

being about unhinged headcannons is kinda my entire thing so with that this in mind i am about to say something truly terrible. Given PIDW in universe was generic stallion novel with given it's popularity and the nature of light novels/web novels in general is it safe to assume to Shen Yuan's exposure to Binghe through official art had the man drawn with (and do forgive me for saying this) the same energy and vibes as the tall mature kirito protagonist variant. And here's the thing I KNOW that is fundamentally not our boy as any of OUR art portrays him. But consider that art style for male characters varies between work genres. Like a novel targeted for mostly cis het males looking for sex and violence is going to have different art than high girly romance with a lot of smoochie smoochie meow meow sparkle. So it is completely possible for Luo Binghe to be handsome but bland in the way only this specific archetype can be in all of the official art work. Because the emphasis is on them TIDDIES. So I think PIDW would probably have the most boring book covers. The ones where there's like one of the harem girls on the front in a cute pose and then our boy's just holding his sword looking cool or he's got one in his arms mid catch. You have seen this novel cover in stores and it never makes you wanna actually pick up the book.

Baby Luo Binghe straight up has just generic anime guy art. He's bland wonderbread character design until the abyss and then he becomes long wonderbread with eyeliner and blood. What this would mean is fanart never features him obvious but also it becomes a whole debate about what does Luo Binghe look like in fanart and the inevitable market of nsfw works. It becomes a whole thing of telling artists apart by how they draw him and arguments about what is the CORRECT BINGGE!!

And you bet your ass Shen Yuan has opinions on that shit. Man absolutely has a headcannon for Luo Binghe. Absolutely has his own designs and ideas which is why i think the juxtaposition of seeing him post transmigration is so funny. Like imagine seeing this guy after reading the novel and be like 'that's just an incredibly cute fluffy child!'. Huh, real human features i hadn't considered. Like he sees the protagonist get a pimple because like it's puberty. Everyone gets pimples and is floored. He's in awe that it's even possible. He's completely shook by the fact that Luo Binghe is actually handsome after years of having a specific imagine in mind that does not promote that which only adds to his gay panicking. He's already internalized the concept the protagonist will be the most attractive person but actually seeing it and then having to compare everyone else around him...

Man is just like dial up noises. All around.

[colorfullpaperbird]

Taste in books i think each of the sides on Sander Sides would have

Logan: Easiest side to tell since he says his book taste in canon lmao, mistery books guy, agatha christie, sherlock holmes, murders on rue morgue, he just really enjoys a good mistery (he’s just like me fr). He also probably reads books about scientific discoveries and psychological studies on a day to day basis (since he seems to have an answer for everything), either really likes or really hates sci fi depending on the scientifical explanations the books gives

Patton: Ok so, im gonna be honest, i don’t think Patton reads much? In fact hes probably the one who reads the least out of all sides, but he does seem to know his stuff, quoting studies in some episodes ( ‘Can lying be good?’ being the one who comes to mind ), so he probably reads a few articles about Morality and philosophy, also when i imagine Patton reading i imagine children’s books with deep messages like Dr Seuss, so personally i think Patton’s taste in books would be books like “The Tao of Pooh” which explains philosophy in a simple fun way taking inspiration from children’s media.

Roman: Roman’s my favorite side and although i would like to dump my personal taste on him i am aware that he canonically hasn’t read my favorite book and dislikes dark retellings of fairytales, leaving me to tears since those are my favorite kind of story. However i will indulge a bit and say that Roman would love Shakespearean plays ( His favorite would be Hamlet bc it inspired Lion King ) and typical fantasy books. Im also 100% sure that guy has a shelf full of Disney Movie Books like the novelization of Beauty and the beast and the villain’s origin books by Serena Valentino, also has those super pretty Disney Classics books ( lucky mfer ). And obviously he would have the original novels of multiple musicals ( Wicked, Be more chill, Dear Evan Hansen…) and some ballets/non-Disney classics as well (The nutcracker, The wizard of oz, Swan lake… ). Also Harry Potter i guess, since that’s canon 😒

Virgil: We all know what im going to say, Horror fan. Likes Edgar Allan Poe’s stories and classic horror books that inspired movies/series ( Carrie, Ring, the haunting of hill house… ), also reads a concerning amount of True crime about unsolved murder cases, and he has a special edition of the novel of The nightmare before Christmas somewhere trust me. And to self indulge a little, Dark retellings of fairytales, especially the Horror leaning ones.

Janus: I feel like Patton would read simplified philosophy books while Janus would grab shit like The gay science by Friedrich Nietzsche at the local library (never read this book, hilarious title tho), Overall i think Janus’s taste on books would consist of either philosophy and sociology books (especially the ones that annoying people read to keep gloating about how smart they are, except he actually likes them), and influential plays like Shakespeare, The Odyssey, The Iliad, Medea, Phantom of the Opera etc… His taste is the perfect combination of annoying Theater kid with pretentious philosophy kid (He is the guy they strive to be 😭)

Tw: Remus and everything that comes with him

-

Remus: YES, REMUS READS, YOU CANNOT CHANGE MY MIND ON THIS, The books he reads? Very simple, Dark romance and horror, the books are his inspirations for new creative ways to annoy the shit out of the other sides, he is slowly but surely making a list of new horrid murder and torture methods he learned via horror books, also dark romance for him is just romance since he thinks normal romance books are boring and lack taste, some other side definitely walked in on him reading once ( picture him reading on the sofa twirling his hair and bouncing his legs in a very stereotypical teen girl way ) and asked what he was reading only for him to answer something like “ ‘Taken Hostage by the Hot Mafia Boss’ :D” Also definitely read the Kam4 Sutr4.

-

Bonus: Remy/Sleep has a book detailing the multiple different ways on how to brew coffee and Picani has every Kids Show Book he could find ( Gravity Falls 3rd Diary, Star vs the Forces of Evil Book of spells etc… )

ALSO WARNING: If you want to buy any of the books i talked about here be aware there is currently a boycott of Disney and any other properties that have ties to the genocide committed by Israel!! And mainly, i would recommend to grab any book i mentioned in the library since they’re one of the only public community spaces that haven’t shut down yet, support your public library to make sure it stays that way!

[remembertheplunge]

Portland 1999

10/10/1999  10;08am Coffee People Portland, Oregon

JW sits now where I sat 5 years back—in a different world. The seeds then were sewn for its ending. It needed to end. Harsh. Violent. Why?

We wait for “neat” stores to open at 11. Kitchen stores. Furniture stores.

The new world of HB and SB is a “we share” world.

Oldies play. We had bloody Marys and Eggs Benedict for breakfast this am here on 23rd street. I’m in heaven. We walked down to the gay bars last night. We peeked into a bath house and a porn shop and a couple of gay bars.

We decide to save the rose garden for another visit. We like Portland.

We saw four gay guys, Front Runner style, running down 23rd Street this morning. And, a gay rainbow stripe on a car.

So, to recount a bit, we stated off on time two days ago. We arrived at the airport in Oakland, California early.  But, hours after the original take off time, we were told that  the plane had engine problems and the flight was being canceled. There was much weeping and wailing at the ticket counter. We handed a note to the ticket counter employee saying that they were handling the situation well. The employee smiled.

The airline put us p at the Hilton Hotel  in Oakland for the night where a Pet Bird owner’s convention was under way!

Next morning, up early, HB sweetly started the  coffee perking. As it gurgled out it’s last laugh “I’m ready…”B popped up and sloshed through (did Lew pee on the floor?)..the coffee pot, located in the bathroom on a shelf by the toilet, was empty. He managed to save a half cup each from the lid…mud…my favorite

Soon, Mother Nature called. Jim was sitting on the toilet, reached for some toilet paper located just below the empty coffee pot…soggy. Soaked  bloated. And the secondd roll? The same, down to about its middle! How much coffee can your toilet paper absorb?

Finally it was time to board the shuttle back to the air port. The whiny family who had been howling at the ticket counter the day before "I just wanna see Barry" (presumably some Portland acquaintance), now, boarding the shuttle were saying "My shoes are too tight! I'm having a heart attack!" Jim and I sat in the back of the bus and laughed!

End of entry

Notes: 8/19/2024

The above entry is from my 1999 journal. That trip to Portland was the only trip by air that Jim and I took in our 12 years together! And, we laughed about it for the rest of our relationship!

HB, B and SB were our nick names for each other. They stood for Honey Bunny and Snuggle Bunny!

I had visited Portland once before on my own before I knew Jim. That was in 1994 when I was experiencing a lot of gay related political trouble at the Public Defender’s office in Modesto, California. I met Jim and was fired from that job in 1997. So, by 1999, Jim was my world.

JW were Jim’s initials. His last name was Wentzel

"Front Runner" was a land mark gay romance novel published in 1974. Written by Patricia Neil Warren, Wikipedia said about it “A love story between a running coach and his star athlete, the Front Runner  is noted for being the first contemporary gay novel to achieve mainstream commercial and critical success."

We had taken the trip to Portland for a law related class that I was taking there.

[eisforeidolon]

In regards to that post [X]:

We could talk about the same old fallacies - OMG, Dean's siren is a guy! Yeah, a brother. OMG, Dean was supposed to say I love you in the Crypt scene! Yeah, it was removed and replaced with what the writer explicitly said was the less OOC version of what he meant anyway, "We're family". We could talk about the blatant absurdity of statements like "Dean liked men it happened on my screen" which bear no resemblance to the SPN that aired. But we've done that before and others have got this reiteration of it well covered.

So I wanna focus for the moment on this particular even more repulsive gem: "Like he literally doesn't need to verbally tell us he's bisexual we just know. He may not know but we do. This is an unmovable fact sorry."

It tells us a few things. One, this person is a fucking idiot. Two, this person, yet again, thinks that ~*interpreting*~ sexuality from the way someone looks/stands/makes eye contact/eats pastry/whatever numbnuts conspiracy bullshit you like? Is more valid than how a character identifies and is identified by those who created him. People can just look at you and know what your sexuality is better than you do, there's nothing repulsive about that idea at all! I've got a mountain of shiny pennies that says if Dean had literally never interacted with a man for the entire span of the series, they would have insisted it was because he was so afraid of how much he wanted to fuck them. There was no way the writers could have written Dean that someone like that would have accepted as actually heterosexual, because that's not what they personally wanted, so that's not what they were going to see.

I'm not saying there aren't things that might be said about how relatively questionable some of the gay jokes in SPN are, especially in the early years in terms of making queerness a punchline. But if we're going to talk about that? We need to do it not only in the cultural context of 2005 rather than 2023, but in the context of portrayals of real world men - and particularly those in fairly rural settings who aren't going to be particularly conscientious in the way they rib each other. Which becomes a whole other discussion about where to draw lines when you're writing fiction and dealing with things that might be realistic but also potentially offensive.

Furthermore, I'm not saying there aren't things that might be said about how SPN continually used romantic tropes for platonic relationships and how it's not entirely absurd for that to land different with the audience when the characters are not blood-related. Except that discussion needs to include not just how maybe the writers shouldn't have treated it as such a joke that a relationship between two male characters might have been possible, but also how fans should absolutely not have equated a relationship being theoretically possible with any specific relationship they wanted being owed to them. Especially in the context of those romantic tropes being used so so so much more between brothers all the fucking time setting the tone. As well as how it's not just problematic to treat the possibility of homosexual relationships as a joke, but problematic to insist literally any closeness between two male entities is gay, reinforcing all kinds of nasty toxic stereotypes about sexuality and masculinity which underlay a lot of modern adult men's issues with expressing their emotions and having genuinely close and open relationships outside of their romantic partners. I've seen fans wonder how heterosexual dudes can watch this show and love the brothers' relationship without seemingly noticing the weird undertones of how claustrophobically intertwined they are, and I think it's very much that when it comes to wanting a fantasy of platonic closeness, they're looking for realism as much as most women reading trashy romance novels are - but that's a whole other digression and this is already too long.

At the end of the day, not only was SPN not created in the cultural context of Very Online Tumbrites in 2023, convinced that nothing should ever be is heterosexual and every fictional story should be about them and what they want? The fact their ostensible original point misses is the real world and most other media of 2023 aren't like that either! Some of these shippers come across like they've literally never seen two adult male friends interact with each other or any actual love stories in media - and it's not just early 2000's television characters getting this treatment from entitled shippers who want to use representation as a weapon against creators as to why they're owed things they absolutely aren't.