#im so sorry this is so dumb but WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY

[sentientsky]

so i’m cleaning out my room, right?? apparently i have not 1 not 2 not 3 but four (4) toolboxes (only one of which actually has tools in it). how many toolboxes is too many?? (i’m a lesbian btw if that helps)

[pseudophan]

i'm so extremely irrationally annoyed by people not knowing what various terms mean and using them incorrectly like i feel like that's such an asshole thing to care about but oh my god stop

[rxttenfish]

Asking because I’m extremely curious about this, how did MonProm’s writing get different over time? I remember you saying that the lore and characters feel different, and that it's missing sincere character interactions, too. I know almost nothing about the lore and I’ve only seen a few people mention the characters, so I’d be interested in a rundown of what aspects you think got worse in the series

I wouldn’t mind a very long response since I’m not that active in the fandom, I need to catch up on what happened

sorry for taking so long to answer this! i kinda waffled on it for a long bit, mainly because i started doubting myself again, and whether or not this was me simply overreacting or being tinted by nostalgia or simply being extremely picky and choosy in what i like (the last of which is true, i seldom get into fandoms at all for this reason and stay away from most popular media, but i wasn't sure if it applied here). i've posted about it already, but i'm in the middle of a psychotic episode where i can't feel a lot of pleasure to begin with + most things i do experience ending up solidly in the "very bad" category, so as you can imagine, i really didn't want to mislead and check that i was actually in objective reality.

as it is, this is also when a lot more screenshots started to be posted in the monster prom tag, and that helped me bridge the gap back into returning to the games themselves and feel like i was making a more accurate judgement. if you're one of those people who have been posting screenshots, i sincerely thank you, and i appreciated seeing you in the tag greatly.

for those not in the know — i've been in the monster prom fandom since it first released, prior to even the first additional ending to be added (the "Punch the sun" ending, and i recall the minor fandom drama that happened at that time due to it). my impression of monster prom is very much influenced by this, as what got me into the first game was the fact that the characters genuinely seemed to care for each other and were friends with each other (not merely tolerating each other's presences nor dressing it up, they sincerely thought of each other as friends and were open about that fact), on top of the wide variety of small details and statements that, if taken at face value, could create compounding complexity in the lives of each and every character and had wider implications for their lives.

no, they were not necessarily explored nor even necessarily "real", with so many conflicting events and statements, but i liked this too, because it meant a wider flexibility in what you could imagine, helping to create a more tailored experience for everyone who thought about these characters. this was what i liked about the early fandom too. what was baseline "canon" was so vague and minimal that you could have wildly different interpretations of the same characters' histories and relationships with each other. you would have radically different perspectives on what the world itself looked like, what it was like, that there wasn't really any wrong answers so long as their personalities remained the same. this is where you got the old headcanon of polly and liam being childhood friends who knew each other as humans, or that the world of monster prom was post-apocalypse where humanity itself had gone extinct or only existed in tiny pockets, or my personal headcanon that both monster and human society existed right next to each other and had minimal crossover for petty cultural reasons. this was also prior zoe-as-ro, and there were wildly different interpretations of zoe's personality, with most going for a far more disquieting creepy-cute than the deep nerd we got.

this is why you get stuff like the timeloop theory, where everyone is repeating the same weeks leading up to prom over and over, and are perhaps vaguely aware of it but broadly unconcerned. this is also why it felt like the joke that, the characters were still in high school but were all fully legal adults with most in their 20's, best landed, because it was absurd and strange and didn't quite make sense, but the world itself was inherently absurd and semi-malleable to begin with. realistically, i felt like everyone understood it was making fun of the trope of having adults play teenagers in american sitcoms and wildly casting outside the age range, but for more in-universe explanations it wasn't any different from the way that you would have a large, dramatic ending in which everything changed, but then you'd restart and everyone would be right back at the beginning with nothing different, or even having conflicting events in the same run. it was a dream-logic that fit with the tropes and, thus, diagetically made sense.

to be clear, i don't mind canon having a set, well, canon on which it refers back to itself. i don't mind expanding that or including more things which are set in stone. but there was a perceivable shift in how the games handled this over time, becoming a lot more... bitter, it felt, towards all of these different branching ideas and concepts that, yeah, the people making them knew wouldn't necessarily be "canon" because "canon" already liked to contradict itself so much. most people weren't even sold on any one idea, and there was a much greater sense of enjoying and appreciating all the varying ideas people would come up with even if you personally didn't share them. making the characters be out of character was the real crime, because then it didn't diagetically make sense in the same way, didn't wholly fit.

(again, this is not to say fanon didn't happen and characters weren't smoothed down into a simplified personality that fit these varying fan-interpretations instead of the game itself. certainly damien love/lust was just as bad as it had ever been, and everyone loved to mangle his character into a more stereotypical "bad boy with a heart of hold" all the time. but it certainly felt less set-in-stone about it than it does now, with any deviation from the norm being considered strange and odd and even broadly shunned from the wider fandom.)

all of this is setup for establishing what the writing, lore, and characters felt like in the earlier days. the characters were the strongest part, with their relationships to each other being equally as important. the lore played it fast and loose and was far less interested in setting anything in concrete because that wasn't the important part. the lore wasn't the important part, which was what made it all the more intoxicating to think about, all the more fun to play with.

montrip is easily the biggest offender when it comes to setting everything in all-or-nothing terms and demanding absolutism from the world. broadly i blame the hitchhiker conversations for the worst of it, but i think ultimately the way they handled the entire premise of the game is where this problem stems from. it's not really an exploration in the same sense that you might explore the first game, discovering different perspectives and different people with different relationships to each other. it's an exploration in the sense of a sequel that over-explains the monster, that takes the most boring option out of all those that were possible and floating around and settles on something that was blatant, obvious, typically rejected not because of how novel it is but how trite and par for the course it is in the rest of the genre.

yeah, okay. humans know nothing about monsters and there's a "monster dimension" that exists separately from the human dimension. there's no crossover between the two of them. of course there's a big grand-scale fight between the eldritch powers that zoe used to be a part of, from which not only are slayers the main organization against them, but also the merkingdom has some horse in this race too. it's an urge to make things so universal in explaining them, in revealing connecting threads which unite everything that's ever happened in here, that makes the worldbuilding and lore immediately much more boring than it ever was before.

and it didn't have to be this way! nothing in the first game contradicts any of this too explicitly (see the above, the first game loves to contradict itself), and i would even be happy if this was basically canon but never stated or confirmed to be the big overarching everything going on underneath it all. i believe you should probably know these things about any world that you create and have them in the back of your mind. the difference is that you can know these things and keep them in mind, even focusing on things where its very relevant, and still not reveal them. this is why you have lore bibles, after all. every horror writer knows exactly how their monster works and the full underlying reason for everything that happens, but that doesn't mean the audience will see it or possess this same information too, and leaving it intentionally obscure will make far better stories.

which, this is bad enough, but it wouldn't be the breaking point for me if this was all there was.

but the worst thing of all has to be the slow decay of the very same characters that sold me on this world, this lore, this game in the first place. monster prom is nothing without the characters in it. it's a dating sim, it has nothing but characters to get you to play, and liking these characters are the entire reason anyone would pick up monster prom in the first place.

and the first game pulls this off extremely well. it's all in the tagline: be your worst self. they are, indeed, all terrible people. yes, even that character that you just thought of right now. they all have points in the game where they commit atrocities, where they kill or hurt people, where they do inexcusable things that could not be ignored in a more serious setting.

but that's the point. i think there's something very powerful in creating a character who not only do you love and love their personality and the way they interact with the world, but who also are inapologetically terrible, and to have the humor and the charisma be so good that you don't get bogged down in the "this is awful". likewise, it never feels the urge to really go out of its way to justify what's going on. this is not to say theres no discussion of if someone "deserved it", but usually there's still the sense that the joke is on them, that this is still an extreme reaction specifically for comedy and not necessarily something that can be justified. you can have damien set leonard on fire and have it feel earned, without prompting the needed reaction of what it's actually like to watch someone burn to death.

this is what sets the prank masterz ending apart from the rest of the game, and really establishes it as the first real "bad ending". because nothing that you do or happens in the prank masterz ending is any different from anything else that happens in any other run. you summon evil beings from other dimensions as a throwaway gag on how visiting one location raises your stats. you kill other people and damn them to terrible fates. you watch as body horror happens. the only difference is that, in the prank masterz ending, the laugh track doesn't play.

the rest of the game and the writing echoes this philosophy, this careful interplay of tropes that keeps everything tongue in cheek and yet sincere enough to make sure emotional beats still land when they're needed. the characters feel true to themselves and their own emotions, even when the world is extreme and excessive, when everything else runs on comedy logic.

this is also what i noticed failing first as time went on.

like i said, fanon has always existed and there's always been very specific ideas as to what characters are like in the same way fanon always flattens down characters into the same tropes over and over. scott is stupid and innocent and doesn't know what sex is. damien is violent and hot and too cool for anyone else. miranda is the idiot girl character. repeat over and over and over until you get sick of it.

but it's been an issue as time has crept on that canon has started to approach fanon and began to merge with it. now, scott is so innocent that he can't even curse. polly starts being mean to her friends and saying things that would be very hurtful to hear. the merkingdom isn't really super evil and fucked up, it's just miranda that's like that. they become simpler, easier to digest, streamlined for social media posts and mass-sharing. they become less and less subversions of existing tropes and moreso just another example of them, something else to add to the collection, not their own individual stories.

even further from this, what more complex traits they had are now stated and not shown. polly is stated to be smart and clever in a way that her party girl persona doesn't imply and to be sincerely rather down to earth with the people she cares about, but we seldom ever see this anymore unless its the game specifically trying to make a point about it, in which case it won't let her do anything that implies cleverness and moreso will just outline it in the narration. vera is stated to care for people in a very genuine and heartfelt way, but seldom will get a chance to do so, and every opportunity for her to do so to their faces is missed while she will just outright state it later. it does not feel consistent, it does not feel like any of these are intended reads of their actions. it feels like the devs have something they want to do but no idea on how to actually do so. and forget it if you want these traits to manifest in small ways that show up in unrelated moments and scenes.

the dialogue becomes harder and harder to tell between each speaker, if you are just looking at what's said and not at the pictures attached to it. the characters' distinct voices have been eroded away, so that they speak more and more like each other, relaying the same terms and ideas in the same words. perspective becomes a suggestion, instead of a must.

this is something that started back in monster camp too, as all of the endings in that game felt ultimately the same as every other ending. it's very hard to place or define the full reason why, why there feels like there's no emotional stakes nor investment, why everything feels moreso like selecting different coats of paint and trying to find all the different ending pictures rather than being interested in exploring the characters as characters.

stranger yet, the series that started with the tagline of "be your worst self" has experienced a kind of... softening, for lack of a better word? what i mentioned about being able to handle the balance between terrible people who do terrible things and the light tone of the game starts to change, as abruptly the same characters who were down with violent murder in the first game start to lose their nerve, acting more and more on more typical morality. it's one of those things that feels like it's starting to damage the tone, as abruptly it's not as absurd as it used to be, demands less suspension of disbelief which could buffer and support the rest of the setting on it. there's even a part in one of the endings in montrip which involves current-polly and current-scott looking back on their monprom selves and reacting in horror at how violent and careless their pranks are, in a way that fundamentally felt like it was undercutting and disparaging all the things that felt fun and made monprom what it was.

which is odd, really, because more and more i feel like the characters in these games like each other less and less. the friendships and genuine enjoyment of each others company that brought me to this game in the first place has gone. now they don't mention each other as much, don't care for each other's feelings and reactions as much, aren't as willing to support each other. they are more and more found on their own, relied on their own, seem to seek out contact and interaction with their own friends less and less. it feels like they're all separating out into their own worlds, but also feels like they wouldn't willingly want to interact with each other if they weren't already forced together by some other outside contrivance.

if anything, i'd compare it to every other dating sim out there, where you, the player, are the most important person in these characters' lives, and they only feel ambivalent or antagonistic towards every other character. which, again, is not why i picked up monster prom or why i liked it so much in the first place.

and it's because of this that it feels like the current state of the series has to focus on its increasingly weak worldbuilding and lore, trying to form a more serious foundation without character relationships being so tightly bound together, without the characters themselves being more developed and rich, without an aspect of absurd humor to rely on.

more and more i've noticed monprom has to rely on referencing other series to make itself funny and create humor, which, again, it's always done. it was just easier to ignore back then, if you didn't know what was being referenced, because there was always more going on in the exact same scene to bolster it and give context clues as to the setup and punchline at play. it feels like the current games are much more dependent on you knowing pop culture references in order to have any fun with it, and i'm someone who, again, is very picky in what i like or what i'll seek out. i'm not interested in a stream of references about other things that i would much rather be doing than playing through a game that feels like it hates that i like it at all, when i could, again, just be engaging with the thing that takes itself seriously and knows what it wants.

[bunnihearted]

the earth is getting hotter and hotter and nobody's doing anything about it but im misanthropic and depressive because i can see nothing that inspires hope 🤙

[dandyshucks]

blinks tiredly. i decide "hm maybe i should try to expand my circle and step outside of it a little, lets go look at the main community tags" and im just greeted with a bunch of edgelords who think saying "fiction doesn't affect reality, don't like don't read" is peak activism and "fighting censorship". head in my hands. this is partially why i do not ever go into the community tags, my nervous system cannot handle blocking fifty weirdos every single day just so i can have a normal experience in the community tags hfdsjkl

[spiderziege]

also speaking of die drei ???, heres an obligatory ask so you can spend us some more details on the shadow game (opens hands)

aaaahhh so the thing with tsg is. i think about them a lot and i have so many unfinished sketches, but i never really post about my ocs cause 1) there is no actual coherent story and there probably never will be, and 2) i kinda forget that sometimes people are actually interested in oc stuff :')

heres two things from a while ago, which actually you mightve seen those already cause i think i posted them on my priv twitter? but yeah. and if you want a completely random and contextless snippet then theres this horse here. Maurice starts collecting a bunch of trash and scrap metal that people leave lying around local yards and gardening plots (allotments? is that the right word here? kleingärtenanlagen is what i mean) and out of boredom he starts building new things out of that, starts out with small random structures until he gets to building these life-sized horse statues. and then SOMETHING happens i just dont know what. i assume they become sentient at some point. also Louis is somewhat haunted by a horse but i think thats mostly unrelated. its just if i come up with any story then a horse is gonna show up at some point

[ennuidays]

Urgh

[chiistarri]

what if instead of messaging me in the middle of the night about your stupid fucking girlfriend and your stupid fucking problems with her you actually act like my fucking friend and message me like how you message everyone else in our group

[floralovebot]

helia is obv meant to be androgynous and bishounen but I get why people would think he was designed to be a woman initially because his name is a woman's name actually. helia is a girls name. also, compared to avalon or other long haired characters, he's also somewhat more different.

I don't think it's too far fetched. some language groups like greek fans could have other pov. in latin american spanish his name was changed to helio for this very reason.

i know his name is feminine. that still means nothing tbh

sky is a popular girl's name in the west. does that mean he's automatically a girl? like no of course not. no one is arguing that sky is a woman just because of his name. griffin is a masculine latin name. don't see anyone questioning her. if his name is the Only proof people have that helia was meant to be a girl, that's weak when other characters also have feminine/masculine names that don't align with their canon gender.

also, you need to ask yourself, what is different about helia? like actually answer that question. what exactly makes helia different from characters like palladium, valtor, or avalon. it's not his body - helia has the same muscular body the other specialists have and he's one of the few male characters we see shirtless on screen. it can't be pacifism - he's not a pacifist and pacifism is not a feminine trait. it can't be art or poetry - neither of those things are feminine traits/hobbies. it can't be his fashion - he's just wearing a shirt and jeans. if anything his wardrobe would be considered more masculine compared to the crop tops the other specialists are wearing (even for the time). it can't be his personality - nabu is also wiser and gentler, timmy is also a simp, brandon is also caring.

so what exactly makes helia different from other long haired male characters?

nothing. that's your answer.

the only thing that makes helia So different is that other long haired male characters are often coded as white Or specifically have darker skin, so fans don't feel the need to question their masculinity (which is a Whole other discussion). helia is not coded as white. even fans who don't consciously realize it are still picking up on that coding. these white fans then feel comfortable questioning his masculinity because they've done that to men of color for decades. it's not just asian men either. white people love to question the masculinity of all men of color, regardless of race or skin color. that's how they demean them. how they separate them from white men. they uphold certain racial and gender stereotypes and then demean any man who "doesn't fit that". which in their eyes, is all men of color.

it's like this: man of color doesn't adhere to western/white/european cultural standards > white people realize, don't like, insult them, and try to make them feel like they need to adhere > white men prioritize the patriarchy and feel the need to glorify it > in order to insult men of color, they specifically call out and question their masculinity > white people around the world think this is genuinely innocent because it focuses on gender instead of race > white racists get away with it

listen, i know at first this seems like a really harmless and maybe even amusing topic. "oh helia is so pretty people think he's a girl ahahah". and for some fans it is genuinely harmless. they just think he's too pretty to be a man. and then they realize, laugh it off, and don't question it again.

unfortunately, that's not the case for a lot of other fans. it's not innocent. it's not harmless. it's white people picking up on racial coding and questioning his identity because of it. you guys don't do this to other characters. you don't do it to sky, who also has a "feminine" name. you don't do it to palladium, who is slimmer and has a gentler, nicer personality. you don't do it to saladin. or nabu. or ogron. or gantlos. or anagan. or tritannus. or nereus. or king neptune. or king teredor.

all of those names are male characters with long hair.

i know it's nice to assume that this is innocent and genuine. but unfortunately, that's not the case. this is an example of something that isn't innocent for a majority of adult, white fans. even if they're not doing it On Purpose. subconscious bias is called that for a reason.

[kaeyapilled]

So with the hangout.. do you think that settles the issue of mistranslation or not of Kaeya and Diluc being brothers?

is it even possible to settle it? i feel like there must be some insane cultural difference between me as a western person and chinese people when it comes to adoptive siblings because, i honestly don't see how the biological son of the guy you consider your adoptive father isn't, by extension, your adoptive brother; how would that relationship not be familial? even when you bring in the "sworn brothers" trope as a means of queercoding, which is a concept ive had explained to me more than once �� like, okay? i agree that it's true you can't properly translate/localize that, but. how else did you want them to translate it? even if the word brother was never used once in the eng translation, how do you make it so that kaeya and diluc calling the same guy "father" doesn't imply some uncomfortable things if he and diluc are romantically involved..? but then, who knows, maybe i just don't have enough knowledge about how censorship works in china, how they do queercoding over there, how they deal with adopted relationships, whatever. it's fine. different cultural upbringings, no? it's funny when it's the western side of the fandom discussing this, though. because you'll have these extremely white people arguing with you about the intricacies of chinese BL media. as if either of us knows what the hell we're talking about. anyway, none of this matters in the end because most klc shippers just... like the incest. and the day we stop arguing about mistranslations and simply accept that people either 1) see this relationship in a different light due to their cultural background or 2) are a little bit of a freak online is the day i will finally know peace as a kaeya fan

[chompe-diem]

the starstruck odyssey adventuring parties r slightly painful to watch tbh bc of every time ppl, mostly specifically brennan, talks about how 'omg heres how this universe is diff from standard fantasy d&d and more like the real world' not bc of the actual content of what he's saying but more as a personal thing it does really irk me to see it keep being talked about as some kind of revelation

idk just as someone who does understand and appreciate traditional story structure but Ultimately finds a more quote, 'realistic' storytelling style more interesting on a lot of levels it's just like aaaaaaaghhh!!!! yea it's cool doing stuff like that!!! ur also making it sound super crazy out there as youre explaining ur personal discovery of it!!!! this isnt news to me this is my personal bread and butter and u are kind of making it sound weird and borderline other-ing from ur perspective!!!! grrrrrrr

[mooodyblue]

ignore me lol

[snekdood]

the problem with vaush’s anti theist argument is he assumes that people just blindly follow whatever a book or religious leader tells us the gods want rather than ever thinking on our own also he’s heavily relying on an argument that religious ppl think their gods word isn’t anything you can go against ever so if they tell you to rape and murder people then its fine to do so but like.... i really dont think any religious person is like this?????? i dont even think rapey serial killer religious people are like this??? like religion is always a front or a justification for their actions i dont think they genuinely believe god came down and told them it was fine i think they know they twisted what they heard/read to their benefit. the problem is with manipulative ppl who are able to take leadership of some sort over a group of people and twist the narrative to their benefit for whatever they’re gathering for, which can obviously happen in literally any kind of setting

[nexus-nebulae]

i amb. Dissociating

[estrelladelatardecer]

.

[itadodori]

professor!gojo who could sense your jealousy every time he had a conversation with his coworker, utahime. the type of man gojo was, he’d do it on purpose. just to see if he could get a rise out of you. sadly.. his plans always worked. every single time you saw the two of them talking the only thing you wanted to do was smack both of them, but you couldn’t.

your relationship with him had to remain a secret or you’d be kicked out of uni, and he’d loose his job. that’s the reason gojo loved ticking you off so much.. he knew there was nothing you could do about it.

well.. he may have forgotten the fact that you were one petty woman. you were sick of gojo’s little mind games so you thought why not play along? maybe this would get him to stop toying around with you.

all it took was for you to say one word to professor toji, who was at the top of gojo’s most hated list. when he saw you in toji’s class after hours giggling and wearing that short ass skirt of yours.. he lost it.

toji fushiguro? did you really have to go that low?

“quit the cryin’ already. you did this to yourself.” gojo had you bent over his lap— ass in the air as he delivered a stinging slap.

he’s been at this for hours. you lost count of how many times he spanked your ass, but from the excruciating pain on both your cheeks.. you’d say about over 20 times.

“’m sorry baby.. but you made me mad!” you croaked, hands quickly flying to his as he tried to deliver another smack.

but of course.. he was gojo. so you couldn’t hold him off for too long.

“grab my hand again and im gonna start spanking that pretty little pussy instead..” he found himself slipping his fingers through your folds— toying with your throbbing clit. “would you like that, baby? hmm?”

he wasted no time slipping his fingers into you, yanking your hair in the process, forcing you to look at him.

“who’s pussy is this? better answer me before i get upset pretty girl.”

“y..yours- aw fuck! it’s all yours daddy!” you didn’t notice it at first, but from the position he forced you in, you had a clear view of his neck.

the black ink was too hard to miss. your name, in big bold letters was tattooed on the side of his neck. anyone that walked passed him would see it if they looked close enough. he’d have to hide it during work.

“oh.. you like my new tattoo mama?” gojo chuckled lowly— sliding his fingers out of you just to slam them back in a second later. “i got it just for you.. so everyone can know who i belong to.”

those words alone made your pussy flutter, and you couldn’t stop yourself from getting tighter around his thick fingers.

“g..gojo please.”

he completely ignored your cries as he watched your pussy suck his fingers in, mesmerized by the sight. right now any sense of logic he once had was gone, and the only thing he was focused on was drilling it into your dumb little head that you were his.

“but don’t worry baby.. daddy’s got some other ways to prove his loyalty to you.” you had no clue what he could be hinting towards— nor did you care. right now your body was too overstimulated to think straight.

“maybe i should put some babies in this cute lil tummy.. let everyone know you’re my wife?”

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